#Need help deciding on what protocol to use for automation in a warehouse with fairly many walls

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

indigo rivet
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To showcase the system to my boss and get him to transition to automation for a few things, we're gonna start with a doorbell-button, a chime/speaker, to allow delivery drivers to gain entry.

Later on im planning to install a mag-lock for a gate and have several buttons unlock that, including app control.

My main question is if anyone has had similar experiences with a warehouse having several brick/metal walls, what is the best protocol/tech to use? Zwave, zigbee? Our wifi coverage is very poor, we use unifi but we cant get access points everywhere needed, plus having to get another $150 AP just for IoT range is a bit unecessary.

Im leaning towards zwave, i recall that having a bit further range than zigbee, maybe im mistaken.

Theres electrical outlets scattered, so i can place repeaters/bridges where needed

rancid sandal
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To continue what we started, Zwave 800 Long Range stuff will give you probably the least trouble in a big space. It is a mesh network so mains powered devices are the routers.

Zigbee works like that too but shorter range, so more devices needed.

WIFI coverage you are going to want anyway so.
There are programs out there where you can build a virtual map of your house to figure out predicted WIFI strength,and since it's the same band, Zigbee would have the sameish signal issues.

indigo rivet
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But wouldnt need wifi coverage for Zwave correct?

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only to a bridge/router or what you call it, for it to then span out

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at home i use mainly zigbee and wifi devices, no zwave at all as they tend to be more expensive

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currently we use a crapppy 433mhz doorbell 😅

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Ive also been searching around a fair bit, cant seem to find a good solution/project to replicate with a maglock, as far as i understand it though, i just need to constantly supply power with any of the hundreds of powerswitching devices, and have that be toggled by buttons, then reactivated etc

thorn mist
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433MHz should have good coverage at least 😄

indigo rivet
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🔫 rubber_duck

thorn mist
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i have no experience with zwave, but it does sound like the better option here.

indigo rivet
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i should probably also have a separate switch near the maglocked door to manually cut power, not relying on HA

thorn mist
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as for driving maglocks... is a simple relay enough? are they considered reactive loads? not all switches like that

rancid sandal
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My point for WIFI is you will want to have a phone there at least, maybe a computer, so you want some WIFI coverage...

thorn mist
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a manual switch somewhere near the gate is always a good idea. not near enough for someone to press it with a stick through a fence 😄

indigo rivet
indigo rivet
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but at the moment theres no need for someone to interact with the app, where theres no coverage

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if theres a need, id set up a cloudflare tunnel to a domain and set up authentication

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so it works on data as well

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its gonna be a bit much to have people install HA at this point at least

rancid sandal
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I'm talking not even IOT related.

indigo rivet
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huh, why wifi then

rancid sandal
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I would have WIFI in any space I own, maybe that's just me.

icy abyss
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Also a note— zwave long range is not a mesh. Its hub and spoke. Regular zwave is a mesh though.

indigo rivet
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but we are talking like 800sqm

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and its a shared space with 4 other logistics companies

rancid sandal
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Well the LR devices will do mesh in other modes, so it's then available if you have a reacher.

indigo rivet
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im annoyed enough by no wifi coverage in lunch room

icy abyss
icy abyss
indigo rivet
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theres not much interference

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from what i can see in wifiman

thorn mist
indigo rivet
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we use unifi

icy abyss
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Right but zigbee devices are on the 2.4 spectrum too— so there could be if you went the zigbee route

thorn mist
indigo rivet
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my own experience is that zigbee is more stable than wifi devices though

indigo rivet
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well not same

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or well

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i dont know, i just know its unifi for them too

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its likely managed from one company

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might be hard to get access to the dashboard

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i doubt we share the same unifi hardware

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our own unifi is a cloudkey and APs

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so not a lot

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other companies likely have same setup

thorn mist
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but then at least expanding coverage would be a shared cost

indigo rivet
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how so?

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im confused how the other companies have anything to do with this

icy abyss
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Wireless interference

indigo rivet
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yes but theres a cost brought up

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interference can be managed by swapping channels around, our IT people can do that

thorn mist
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if you could share the wifi like in many corporate buildings. separate ssid's, but the same access points

indigo rivet
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yea thats not the correct way to do things

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you have a separate dashboard for each company

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cloudkey/dreammachine/whatever

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especially if its more than just Wifi part of Unifi

icy abyss
indigo rivet
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i understand that

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but my apartment is a worse scenario

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and zigbee works fine there

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its double the amount of 2.4ghz networks

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i know interference is an important thing, but its not like you get blocked from using zigbee if theres 2-4 2.4ghz wifi networks around

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ill have to do trial and error i suppose

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i got no clear answer on zwave

icy abyss
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I recommended using it

indigo rivet
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worst case i just do wifi devices and add another AP where needed

icy abyss
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ok, sounds like you made your decision prior to the thread creation.

indigo rivet
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not at all, its just that i first got met with "this has nothing to do with home assistant", then i got told to make a project post, then i get told zwave LR is the way to go, then another person joins and says zwave LR doesnt mesh, while the other says it does

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then another joins and starts talking about cost and joining with other companies internet

thorn mist
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in industrial settings it is also hard to know if you have interference in other bands from machinery.

indigo rivet
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a bit much when i simply asked what would be the best range through walls

indigo rivet
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the answer is, theres no machinery other than forklifts

icy abyss
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zwave lr will mesh if lr mode is disabled. It just acts like a standard zwave device without any of the benefits of Zwave LR. You brought up cost in your initial post which I'm guessing is why @thorn mist brought up cost and ideas for mitigating cost.

indigo rivet
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its brick walls, some metal walls, lots of powerlines, and wood walls

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what is the purpose of using zwave LR with LR disabled, over regular zwave?

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yea cost is a factor, but our current "doorbell" system is some farm device that cost $350

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and is a literal bell that rings

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so anything below that is fine

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i appreciate the help btw

thorn mist
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if you get zwave devices that can do lr as well as mesh for initial testing then you can quickly find out if you need to go mesh or if lr is enough for your most remote locations

icy abyss
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literally nothing. regular zwave will mesh, LR will be hub and spoke. So if you go LR and the walls cut your range significantly there is no way to boost that range (like you can in the mesh config). LR may work, but if not you need to reconfigure the device from scratch and add devices to boost the signal. LR is great in small residential or places where their is a clear line of sight.

indigo rivet
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got it

thorn mist
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and as oddballs - lora is an option for really long range, but lora sensors and devices are limited.

icy abyss
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and not cheap as I recall

thorn mist
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and wifi long range will be a future player

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i guess WAF is not a problem, so for anything battery operated look for aa or aaa batteries, not coin cells

noble birch
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could be an option

mortal token
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As you are starting off small, have you thought about not using Wireless protocols and using ethernet cabling? As it is a warehose I'm guessing you can run cables alomg the ceilings?

noble birch
indigo rivet
indigo rivet
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Not available for a while tho

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Just the hub thing

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But if possible, I wanna use HA

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Not Unifi proprietary (maybe)

noble birch
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not sure on that though

indigo rivet
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Would be neat

noble birch
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I mean the network and protect stuff does so I don’t see why this wouldn’t

indigo rivet
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There is already a Unifi integration so ye

fading jasper
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Price is definitely also a concern, a lot of what's out there comes into the "enterprise" category, which means it's really well built, nice to use, designed for long battery life, etc, but $$$$

thorn mist
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most of what i have seen on the lora side is for farms. but that should also cover remote gates 🙂

fading jasper
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It also works great for non line of sight applications