tulip path
So I was thinking about getting into Home Assistant but only own a Raspberry Pi 3 Model B Plus Rev 1.3 which is running Pi-hole right now. Is it possible to run both on it at the same time?
And what Raspberry-Pi or other device would be recommend to run Home Assistant if it is not possible?
worldly thistle
I'd run HA as a docker container beside it. I like to recommend (U)SFF or Mini PCs.
tulip path
I'd need something that is power efficient and that I can use to do the absolute sin of connecting it via Wifi
worldly thistle
N100 Mini PCs are quite energy efficient. But why WiFi?
tulip path
I'm currently living in a situation where I can't just keep something connected to the modem because it might get stolen or unplugged
worldly thistle
That sucks. I'd probably recommend a WiFi to Ethernet bridge then or a USB WiFi stick.
tulip path
I have Wifi access and already use my Pi-hole that way
worldly thistle
Yeah but if you buy a Mini PC it might not have WiFi included 🙂
tulip path
Ah yeah got it. That's why I was thinking about a maybe getting a Pi 5 with 8GB for 84€
worldly thistle
At the moment I'd suggest you to use the HA docker image and see how that works for you. No need to reinstall anything and it can run beside your existing pihole.
Not a fan of pis: https://gist.github.com/Impact123/6ee130240bdc6a7fed2d5224616544a0
tulip path
My pihole runs on the OS and not in a container and I never used Docker
worldly thistle
You can install docker and then run the HA image.
tulip path
Any N100 device that i can find right now in Germany is pretty expensive
worldly thistle
I'd recommend buying on aliexpress. There's also cheap used Thin Clients/(U)SFF machines on eBay.
tulip path
You can install docker and then run the HA image.
Wouldn't that interfere with my running installation of Pi-hole because it is already running a webserver and so on?
worldly thistle
No.
tulip path
I'd recommend buying on aliexpress. There's also cheap used Thin Clients/(U)SFF ...
Not for Germany and some people even rack up the prizes by saying that Home Assistent is already installed which is really scummy for just installing FOSS software
worldly thistle
You might be looking at the wrong things then. Here's an example: https://www.ebay.de/itm/296909508614?
But again, I recommend you keep what you have for now. Just add the HA docker container on top. That's the simplest solution in my opinion.
tulip path
Doing so right now and thank you for the link. I heard that RAM is the most important thing for Home Assistant when it comes to Automation complexity. Is that correct?
worldly thistle
I'm not sure, I don't have any fancy ones. but that sounds wrong to me. I suppose it depends what the automations do exactly.
tulip path
I kinda always gets stuck eventually and the data transfer kinda stops as well as seen in the background
pi@bouncer:~/home-assistant $ sudo dockerd --max-concurrent-downloads 1
INFO[2025-01-20T22:23:03.718751998+01:00] Starting up
INFO[2025-01-20T22:23:03.721831313+01:00] OTEL tracing is not configured, using no-op tracer provider
INFO[2025-01-20T22:23:11.444896156+01:00] [graphdriver] using prior storage driver: overlay2
INFO[2025-01-20T22:23:11.587224966+01:00] Loading containers: start.
INFO[2025-01-20T22:23:13.019753955+01:00] Default bridge (docker0) is assigned with an IP address 172.17.0.0/16. Daemon option --bip can be used to set a preferred IP address
INFO[2025-01-20T22:23:13.383770242+01:00] Loading containers: done.
WARN[2025-01-20T22:23:14.145694648+01:00] WARNING: No memory limit support
WARN[2025-01-20T22:23:14.145928934+01:00] WARNING: No swap limit support
INFO[2025-01-20T22:23:14.146181920+01:00] Docker daemon commit=38b84dc containerd-snapshotter=false storage-driver=overlay2 version=27.5.0
INFO[2025-01-20T22:23:14.148415609+01:00] Daemon has completed initialization
INFO[2025-01-20T22:23:14.314804477+01:00] API listen on /var/run/docker.sock
INFO[2025-01-20T22:26:41.308544183+01:00] Download failed, retrying (1/5): read tcp 192.168.178.2:36148->185.199.108.154:443: read: connection reset by peer
ERRO[2025-01-20T22:32:59.133235525+01:00] Not continuing with pull after error: context canceled spanID=4d4f0f95cbdecddd traceID=980dd1961b6c013a4be7c97bab8270a9
ERRO[2025-01-20T22:41:35.361527231+01:00] Not continuing with pull after error: context canceled spanID=fac4a0244a25489f traceID=a87d562ecb406a2cda58acca62cda469```Tried reconnecting mid download and ctrl + c and also tired to restart multiple times so far
worldly thistle
Why are you starting it like that? Use systemctl and check logs with journalctl.
tulip path
It helped some people because their ISP was blocking mass download due to thinking they are using a torrent or something like that.
worldly thistle
That's not the way to do that though. It might already be running.
tulip path
Ot wasn't. I checked via another terminal and my webbrowser.
I literally did nothing different and it is actually installing this time. My Raspberry Pi might have found some "it just works" magic powder from Apple.
hazy cargo
I suggest running HA with the Adguard Addon installed and ditching PiHole
tulip path
Getting somewhere...
CONTAINER ID IMAGE COMMAND CREATED STATUS PORTS NAMES
945d06bb7f5d ghcr.io/home-assistant/home-assistant:stable "/init" 3 minutes ago Up 2 minutes homeassistant```They are not running HAOS.
Changing everything about their setup is very disruptive. They also have limited memory.
tulip path
I suggest running HA with the Adguard Addon installed and ditching PiHole
I'm also using the local DNS function in Pi-hole and I doubt that is also available in Adguard.
worldly thistle
It is.
hazy cargo
called DNS rewrite in Adguard
but the problem I see is more running HA on a Pi 3. Its simply to weak + its running pihole too.
tulip path
I'm also sharing the current network with others who don't want any filtering.
What about regex support?
hazy cargo
I tried running Pihole and HA myself at some point but I constantly bricked my tries.
So when I found out that Adguard is basically the same I tried the Addon with a real HASSOS install and it just worked
tulip path
but the problem I see is more running HA on a Pi 3. Its simply to weak + its run...
I'm doing all of this on the suggestion of @worldly thistle .
hazy cargo
also if you wanna use Pihole you could install the portainer addon into HA and use docker how you want, its a little bit dangerous because you can butcher your whole install but it works
tulip path
Is there any reason why the container still has no port assigned to it?
hazy cargo
Im also based in Germany and there quite alot of nice options for N100 PCs starting at 160€.
For a Pi5 you have to think about other stuff.
You need a cooler, a power supply and for the long run something better than an microSD card. Youre basically at the same price by then with a more clunky solution.
You can get N100 pc for around 200€ that have 2 M2 slots and an Sata slot making this a really nice small homeserver because you could do a raid 1 in there. possibly even a raid 3 because basically all of them have m2 wifi cards that you could switch out to a small ssd with an adapter so you can use this as the boot drive and have all the other 3 drives free
tulip path
Im also based in Germany and there quite alot of nice options for N100 PCs start...
Well I'm severely disabled (60%) so I only have a little bit of money every month and I currently live in a emergency living situation due to external circumstances so I couldn't even afford M.2 drives on top of things. My PC wouldn't be roughly 10 years old if I could tbh.
hazy cargo
the N100 Pc all come with memory and storage so you dont need anything.
For the Pi5 you need storage, power supply, cooler and ideally a case. Which brings this up significantly.
Also look into older N5095 PC they could work too for your usecase
or N95 which you can get super cheap sometimes
140€ right now on Amazon one
tulip path
There are N100 at under 100€ already so I don't know why i should get a more expensive version for 150€
Impact provided me that link earlier.
The only annoying thing is that you have to pay for Windows which I'll never use if I get one from there.
hazy cargo
the n100 pcs are often different
tulip path
And I have to add Wifi myself.
hazy cargo
some have soldered on memory and storage some not
some have 2.5Gigabit Ethernet and so on
tulip path
This one has normal SSDs as fars I can tell.
hazy cargo
Wifi6 cards or so
Sata?
you can always use an external USB drive for Storage expansion. Thats okay too 🙂
tulip path
Well and I still have basically no money but still want to get away from terrible Smart Home apps that want to nickel and dime me for every single feature that can just run locally anyways.
hazy cargo
I personally dont like the energy efficiency of olde systems thats why the N100/150 is so interesting. Its super efficient and still packs a lot of punch
hazy cargo
yes I did
tulip path
Scroll down to: Artikelbeschreibung des Verkäufers
worldly thistle
but the problem I see is more running HA on a Pi 3. Its simply to weak + its run...
My Adguard uses 10x the memory of pihole.
worldly thistle
Is there any reason why the container still has no port assigned to it?
Where are you checking?
hazy cargo
Scroll down to: **Artikelbeschreibung des Verkäufers**
yeah but what are you trying to say?
The N100 has a TDP of 6W the G4560T has 35W
tulip path
Where are you checking?
sudo docker ps
hazy cargo
thats what Im saying, energy still cost something in the long run and should be ignored on a 24/7 machine 😄
tulip path
Sorry for the @ ping
worldly thistle
TDP is meaningless here. A device can very well idle at 10W with a stated TDP of 125W.
worldly thistle
sudo docker ps
HA uses host networking, there is no port mapping.
tulip path
Where can I find out the port then?
tulip path
CONTAINER ID NAMES PORTS
945d06bb7f5d homeassistant
e2597ec87c51 gracious_meninsky```
What is the second thing?I have no idea.
tulip path
Can I kill it?
worldly thistle
I suppose so.
hazy cargo
TDP is meaningless here. A device can very well idle at 10W with a stated TDP of...
still it draw way more found articles stating around 50-60W where the N100 is around 6W
tulip path
State Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address:Port Peer Address:Port Process
LISTEN 0 1024 0.0.0.0:80 0.0.0.0:* users:(("lighttpd",pid=575,fd=4))
LISTEN 0 4096 127.0.0.1:18554 0.0.0.0:* users:(("go2rtc",pid=2000,fd=6))
LISTEN 0 128 127.0.0.1:631 0.0.0.0:* users:(("cupsd",pid=2181,fd=7))
LISTEN 0 5 127.0.0.1:4711 0.0.0.0:* users:(("pihole-FTL",pid=551,fd=10))```Not long ago I had a i7 4770 server using 16W.
tulip path
LISTEN 0 32 0.0.0.0:53 0.0.0.0:* users:(("pihole-FTL",pid=551,fd=5))
LISTEN 0 4096 127.0.0.1:11984 0.0.0.0:* users:(("go2rtc",pid=2000,fd=5))
LISTEN 0 128 192.168.178.2:40000 0.0.0.0:* users:(("python3",pid=1931,fd=27))
LISTEN 0 128 0.0.0.0:8123 0.0.0.0:* users:(("python3",pid=1931,fd=9))
LISTEN 0 1024 [::]:80 [::]:* users:(("lighttpd",pid=575,fd=5))```LISTEN 0 128 [fe80::ba27:ebff:fef1:95ba]%wlan0:40000 [::]:* users:(("python3",pid=1931,fd=28))
LISTEN 0 128 [::]:22 [::]:* users:(("sshd",pid=562,fd=4))
LISTEN 0 32 [::]:53 [::]:* users:(("pihole-FTL",pid=551,fd=7))
LISTEN 0 5 [::1]:4711 [::]:* users:(("pihole-FTL",pid=551,fd=16))
LISTEN 0 128 [::1]:631 [::]:* users:(("cupsd",pid=2181,fd=6))
LISTEN 0 128 [fd2b:52cc:786f:77c4:ba27:ebff:fef1:95ba]:40000 [::]:* users:(("python3",pid=1931,fd=30))
LISTEN 0 128 [::]:8123 [::]:* users:(("python3",pid=1931,fd=10))```Please use code blocks.
tulip path
I can't the text was too long
glad canyonBOT
tulip path
Better?
worldly thistle
Now can you reach HA on that port?
tulip path
YES
worldly thistle
Perfect. So this is solved then?
tulip path
I hope so, but I feel like I have to buy new hardware for it pretty pretty soon. I mean Docker HA does not support addons and so on.
worldly thistle
You are aware that addons are just docker containers?
tulip path
Which configuration of the N100 would make the most sense? More storage or more RAM?
tulip path
You are aware that addons are just docker containers?
Oh...
worldly thistle
You can create them yourself without the limitations of addons.
worldly thistle
Which configuration of the N100 would make the most sense? More storage or more ...
Depends what you want to do with it. I recommend people with x86 machines to virtualize and for that memory is useful.
tulip path
128GB SSD and 32GB RAM?
worldly thistle
What do you plan to run on it besides HA and pihole?
worldly thistle
I'm sure you'll find something here: https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted
I think 128G is a bit small these days.
tulip path
So rather go 265GB and 16GB RAM? I mean this thing is upgradeable as far as I know down the line and they are not stating the RAM speeds and so on.
worldly thistle
Buying the 32G one and a SSD might be more cost effective.
I just have too little information. Just for HAOS and a few addons 128G and 8G of memory are already more than enough.
tulip path
Do you know what kind of DDR RAM this device uses?
worldly thistle
Which one?
tulip path
The one that you linked earlier.
worldly thistle
According to the data sheet its DDR4 SO-DIMM. Just google for the model number.
And that was just an example to proof there's cheap PCs.
tulip path
Well I think it is good enough to get one of these?
worldly thistle
I like the fujitsu devices. Have you decided what to put on it yet?
tulip path
I think just some sort of website filtering and HAOS for now because nothing really catched my eye. Something like immich would be cool down the line but that easily eats up all the storage rather quickly.
Also a blog or something would be cool but you shouldn't host all of that on the same machine I guess.
tulip path
I think HAOS because I dislike Ubuntu and I guess that HAOS would make the most sense.
worldly thistle
tulip path
But then I have to learn Proxmox as well I guess.
worldly thistle
Just an option. One I like very much. Doesn't work well with WiFi though. A WiFi to ethernet bridge might work around that.
tulip path
Yeah .-.
Maybe I have to do just HAOS for now and use my Pi for Pi-hole until I have my own apartment again I guess.
worldly thistle
Or just do what you do now and run your things as docker containers.
It's what I do, just that my PC is a VM.
tulip path
Guess I'll just do that until I get enough performance issues. Also thank you for the help by the two of you!
worldly thistle
What does free -h and top -co %MEM look like right now?
docker stats tells you the usage of the container(s), by the way.
tulip path
gesamt benutzt frei gemns. Puffer/Cache verfügbar
Speicher: 909Mi 436Mi 51Mi 4,0Mi 421Mi 406Mi
Swap: 99Mi 72Mi 27Mi```Ah. Gotta hate a localized CLI. Anyways, still fine for now. Tiny swap though.
tulip path
HA uses 40,5% of my memory right now according to top.
worldly thistle
My HA container uses 2.3GiB 😄
tulip path
945d06bb7f5d homeassistant 2.90% 0B / 0B 0.00% 0B / 0B 315MB / 688kB 44```Hmm. How did you install docker? What OS is this?
tulip path
docker stats seems a bit broken.
Debian Bullseye x64
And I used the official documentation provided by Docker.
worldly thistle
Strange. Maybe a cgroup incompatibility or something.
tulip path
I don't know to be honest.
worldly thistle
hazy cargo
@tulip path Fujitsu Futro S920 ThinClient | AMD GX-222GC CPU 4GB RAM / No SSD | mit Netzteil - RAM-König https://search.app/oYBoyZ8teeVPFcn27
Got this recommended today from notebookcheck
20€ with delivery but you maybe need to extend ram and buy storage
tulip path
Is that one better or worse than the N100?
tulip path
<https://stackoverflow.com/a/77278502>
<https://akashrajpurohit.com/blog/resolvi...
I checked in the Pihole web interface and the reported total memory usage was 94,5% with a red circle next to it. And it definitely took longer to navigate the pages. But HA runs smooth. This is most likely the case, because Pihole assigns itself a nice value of -10.
hazy cargo
@tulip path worse but also 10x cheaper. Its more powerful then a pi3 but has the abbility for more ram 🙂
tulip path
Could you run some small voice/LLM models on the N100? Ala https://youtu.be/XvbVePuP7NY?t=1857
gemma 2 2b is tiny
https://huggingface.co/lmstudio-community/gemma-2-2b-it-GGUF
worldly thistle
<@168677680533733376> Fujitsu Futro S920 ThinClient | AMD GX-222GC CPU 4GB RAM /...
Let's just say I would not buy that.
devout elm
Yeah but if you buy a Mini PC it might not have WiFi included 🙂
N100 Mini PC's w/ 8GB RAM/ 256GB M.2 SSD/Wifi 6/ BT 5.3/ Dual GB Ethernet are now $118 on Amazon Enough. More than enough to Run a loaded HAOS instance
worldly thistle
No need to buy a WiFi adapter then. I think a ethernet WiFi bridge can circumvent the WFi bridge issue though in case they virtualize.
devout elm
I'm running a test instance of HAOS on an N100 with no problems. I'll be migrating after I rehearse and sort out the issues of moving Z-wave and Zigbee (on a Yellow ) to different controllers on the N100
I got a 16GB version and that's over kill
I might run frigate on it as well
worldly thistle
Virtualize it 🙂
There's no overkill. Plenty of things you can run: https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted
tulip path
N100 Mini PC's w/ 8GB RAM/ 256GB M.2 SSD/Wifi 6/ BT 5.3/ Dual GB Ethernet are no...
Link for Amazon.de ?
worldly thistle
Amazon is rarely a good choice for this. Too expensive in my experience.
worldly thistle
devout elm
I don't have that one I have a Beelink but very similar
tulip path
The article cannot be sent to the address you selected. Please choose a different delivery location.
worldly thistle
https://aliexpress.com/item/1005007036843065.html
Just an example.
devout elm
Yeah thats like the Beelink I bought. I'm sure all those things are made by the same company with different names on the product
tulip path
Well my budget is almost 100€ but might go like ~10€ or so over if Wifi and so on is integrated
Running HA and Pi-hole kinda makes the latter freeze sometimes so I get no DNS response.
worldly thistle
Under 100 I'd recommend (U)SFF PCs and a WiFi ethernet bridge. But I said that multiple times already.
tulip path
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005007992293328.html This one seems to be faster and cheaper for some reason.
devout elm
WTF?
tulip path
Under 100 I'd recommend (U)SFF PCs and a WiFi ethernet bridge. But I said that m...
I rather have it all in one because even my number of electrical outlets is limited.
devout elm
worldly thistle
The WiFi bridge is also so you can virtualize. If you don't then sure.
devout elm
Wi-fi 6 is legit faster
worldly thistle
I rather have it all in one because even my number of electrical outlets is limi...
Are power strips not an option?
tulip path
Yeah but I dunno if it has 5 or 6 because I'm getting mixed messages
worldly thistle
Wi-fi 6 is legit faster
You're assuming the AP supports it.
tulip path
Are power strips not an option?
I have 2 outlets in my room so I'm already using that and I already have ~16 devices plugged in
worldly thistle
So?
A lot of (U)SFF PCs support M.2 WiFi cards. Means you can pick your own card and even upgrade them later.
devout elm
You're assuming the AP supports it.
Well yeah ..I've seen 700 mbs
tulip path
FRITZ!Box 7530
worldly thistle
WiFi 5 / AC.
tulip path
Things I have in my room so far:
3x tuya smart plugs with 2 addtional controllable USB ports connecting to
Display (as TV replacement)
USB LED Strip
Ground fan
USB Sunset Lamp
USB Desk Lamp
2x tuya smart bulbs
Gaming PC (old)
5.1 Surround system (old)
Medical daylight lamp
2x USB Type C fast chargers
Google TV Streamer 4k with Matter and Thread support
PC Display
Raspberry Pi 3B+ V1.3
Wii
Xbox
Switch Dock
worldly thistle
But why is it an issue to have more
tulip path
Because daisychaining devices like that and putting them in a single outlet makes it so that the fuse will have a fun time and I will have a higher risk of burning my room down
worldly thistle
Only if they use a lot of power.
