Thread Network Credentials for Companion App

[upper robin]

Hello all. I'm not new to Home Assistant and I'm struggling to figure out how to manage thread network keychain credentials that I see on my iphone with the companion app... one with no border router and another network I created from HA that has a border router. If I make network with no border router my primary network, I can't add a border router to it. It seems my phone is defaulting to the credentials for the network with no border router. Each time I try to add a matter device, I get the "border router required error." I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction to hopefully resolve this issue. I don't want to have to buy a separate border router if i don't have to and I'm not entirely convinced it will resolve the problem.

[rigid otter]

Did you look at the HA Thread integration?

• Go to ’HA > Settings > Devices & Services > Thread‘
• ⁠Find ’Services > Thread‘ then select ’Configure‘

Do you see your two Thread networks there? Can you delete the Thread network without a Thread Border Router? Maybe you have to change the preferred Thread network, before you can delete the other one.

[upper robin]

I can delete it in Home Assistant if I send it from the companion app to home assistant, but I cannot delete that network in the companion app.

I have read guide after guide.

[rigid otter]

I am unsure, if I can help you. Did you try to delete the companion app and start fresh? Maybe the Thread network information is cached somewhere. Maybe you want to try it.

[lapis marten]

Settings -> Companion app -> Debug -> Thread (I think it goes like that, I'm mostly using Android).
There you can look what Thread credentials you have in your keychain and see which are there and which are isnt.
There, you can also sync it with your iPhone I think.

You need to be able to get the credentials of you border router from this page mentioned below

• Go to ’HA > Settings > Devices & Services > Thread‘
• ⁠Find ’Services > Thread‘ then select ’Configure‘

If you want to connect HA border router with any random router in this page. You need to first have this router credentials in your iPhone, so you can send it to HA. Once HA has credentials, it allows for your HA Border Router to join this thread network. Before that, it has no passkey to join (e.g. credentials).
Sometimes you're getting credentials, when you actually getting something connected to this particular Thread Network you want to make preferred.

Also, to make network preferred, you also need to send credentials to HA, as HA seems to not being able to do it on its own. Or, at least, not always.

I'm still puzzled about how to force get credentials from a random Thread Border Router unless this TBR exposes REST API (then it's as easy as IP:PORT/node/dataset/active)

There you can see all credentials if needed. Or, you can just pass this REST endpoint to HA on the Thread page, and it will add this router credentials by itself.

[rigid otter]

I am an Apple Home / Home Assistant only user. What do you see in the Home Assistant app under‘Settings > Companion app > Debugging > Thread‘?

If I remember right, you could send credentials to HA there. But I don’t see anything on my iPhone 16 Pro Max anymore. Maybe you see something on your iPhone/Android phone.

[plucky lintel]

It’s in the thread integration

As long as one of them is “used for iOS + android credentials” you can sync them

Or yeah, you can send whatever you have to HA

[lapis marten]

Nice @plucky lintel how did you force Google and Nanoleaf to use this network? I assume in Nanoleaf it's possible with some setting (I don't have their border router), what about Google? Also availible in their settings? (I don't have their TBR, so just wondering) What about Apple devices? Are they capable of changing networks? Or they're closed to modification bitches as usual? 😄

My problem is that I have Tado X BR and I would want it to connect to another network, but I don't think it's the possibility in the settings.

[plucky lintel]

What does you current network look like?

[ancient glen]

Apple will not join up with jack shit. It's nanoleaf and google that fall in line by taking the credentials from your keychain

[lapis marten]

Just Aqara Hub M3 as TBR + I also have HA TBR both are in one network + Tado X in a separate one, and since this one came first, most of the devices I already connected to Tado X, so I only have a handful of devices on HA/Aqara network and would want to Tado X join this network as well.

You may ask why I'm not joining Tado network instead? And my answer is that it feels like Tado TBR behaves weirdly and half of the time isn't in the Thread > Configure page (HA and Aqara are consistently there) and since I still haven't setup Tado devices, seems to be going to sleep somehow dropping packets/signals, so I lose access to connected devices unless I restart it (off and on). And what's worse is that's happening somehow even when Aqara and HA OTBR are connected to the same network. So, I feel like something is off in Tado X Border Router and I would rather prefer it to join another network, than being a leader in his own one? Counter intuitive, but well 😄
I haven't dug too much into Thread, but I think all BRs are equal in the network and there is no leader? Or there is? If so, Tado definitely screws the network up somehow so there is no fallback to other routers.

[plucky lintel]

yeah, its a shame, you gotta basically force everything to join it, its not hard if you have the thread credentials, or if you have any nanoleaf device. the full creds are shown in the app (which is how i managed to do it)

[spice lava]

There is a leader, but unfortunately, it's elected automatically. You can not force an assignment.