4 story townhouse and zwave long range. Best placement? | Home Assistant | Page 1

mellow pond Nov 22, 2024, 11:45 PM

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Hey there! So i am moving into a new house in a few weeks and have a Zooz 800 zwave long range USB stick. My new home is a 4 story townhome. My home-run for my network stuff is in my basement. That doesn't feel like a great spot to put the Home Assistant/Zwave/Zigbee sticks. Or is it? Would it be better to be centrally located in the home? I haven't ever had any Zwave long range devices but I am wondering how they work. Has anyone experimented with them through walls and how far they can go?

I am planning on buying a bunch of zwave 800 long range light switches.

Does zwave long range do hops and mesh like normal zwave? Or is it like Device -> Hub. WIthout any inbetween?

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 12:22 AM

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Generally “the middle” for placement. the LR devices don’t mesh— just direct hub/spoke. that said I have the same controller in my basement and have had zero issues with the LR devices anywhere across 3 floors.

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I know some people that use that controller + open/close sensors and can hit their mailbox.

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:26 AM

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Thanks! I am more just looking for affirmation for myself. Pretty sure you responded to me before on another thread

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 12:27 AM

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Quite possibly!

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:27 AM

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lol yup it was you

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 12:27 AM

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😂

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I remember things sometimes!

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:28 AM

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#1300637777066721300 message

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That 😄 so i am still on the fence a bit but i guess i just don't want to make the wrong hardware decisions

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 12:28 AM

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Ohhhh right right

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:29 AM

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if zwave long range truly is as stable as folks have said and the docs say, then it could be the end all protocol for my house and a majority of my devices.

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4000 nodes

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crazy

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https://z-wavealliance.org/what-is-z-wave-long-range-how-does-it-differ-from-z-wave/#:~:text=Along with a dramatic increase,power of Z-Wave technology.

Z-Wave Alliance

admin-z-wavealliance

Z-Wave Long Range vs Z-Wave

Z-Wave Long Range extends Z-Wave connectivity beyond the boundaries of the home and accelerates the use of Z-Wave in other verticals.

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A Z-Wave Long Range network can support up to 4000 devices, significantly more than a standard Z-Wave network which typically only supports around 232 devices.

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 12:31 AM

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Oh I thought you meant you were going to have 4000 nodes— which would be absurd

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:32 AM

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LOL no but i like to have the option

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Like. Yeah. I know what the docs say. But truly in practice, how stable is it? Right now in my tiny apartment on standard zwave, my nightstand lights lose connectivity quite a lot. Maybe that's just a ping issue? i dunno

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I just don't want to have the same issues with the zwave LR switches.

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 12:33 AM

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Like I said, I’ve never had the issue with the LR devices anywhere. And my non-LR devices are on a very strong mesh— and similarly no issue.

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:34 AM

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alright. 😄 i wish one more person would respond to affirm this. No offense you have put me at ease twice now but i want one more to be like "yeah me too"

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 12:34 AM

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If you do non LR devices just include them close to far in relation to the hub and youlll be fine

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QF-KELP runs a huge (enormous) zwave mesh without issue too. He is usually only in the water cooler, but he was just talking about it in the last 3 days or so— I’m sure you can find the messages there.

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:36 AM

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i'll check it out

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 12:36 AM

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mellow pond alright. 😄 i wish one more person would respond to affirm this. No offense you ...

And I get that— it’s a big investment.

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:36 AM

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For sure. We just counted the light switches. And as OCD as my wife is, she wants them all to be the same

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there's 75

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so. i am like. "F. this has to work"

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 12:45 AM

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@keen laurel can you share your zwave lr experiences with quin?

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 12:46 AM

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What up

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 12:48 AM

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mellow pond Like. Yeah. I know what the docs say. But truly in practice, how stable is it? R...

Are you using a usb extender for the zwave dongle? Is it on the latest recommended stable firmware? Zwave js ui?

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Lr is cool but downside is they aren’t a part of the traditional mesh. So far I’m happy with lr but I haven’t pushed the limits of how far they can go

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:49 AM

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Zooz 800 USB Stick
https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/zooz/products/zooz-800-series-z-wave-long-range-usb-stick-zst39

Latest firmware, yes.

Zwave JS UI Addon on HA

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 12:51 AM

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No usb extender??

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:51 AM

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wym?

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oh extension cable?

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 12:51 AM

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Yea

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:51 AM

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Yeah i have one of those

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it's the same one that HA ships with the ZBT-1 stick

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 12:52 AM

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Should be good then

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 12:52 AM

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i am also on an ODROID N2+ for my HA hardware

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I opted for a larger power supply too

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I've been on that for a year or so and it's been great. So much better than the RPI 3 was for me.

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My previous house was a lot of wifi devices. Meross switches. But i intended on going with zwave for my light switches in my new house i am moving into in december.

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I haven't really seen Matter/Thread switches make a big hit yet either.

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 12:59 AM

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Nah stick with zooz zwave or inovelli zigbee imo

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And get a mini pc and retire the sbc life

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 1:01 AM

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orly

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i've tried to run HA in a docker container and been pretty successful

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The addon store being gone was a little jarring

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@tranquil beacon alright. I am set

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Thanks for making me go look that up

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that makes me very happy

tranquil beacon Nov 23, 2024, 1:17 AM

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You bet!

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 1:17 AM

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for anyone that is looking for it later - #the-water-cooler message

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oh dude @keen laurel i have watched your youtube videos 😄

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sweet!

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i know someone famous

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aaaaand now you got a subscriber

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 1:33 AM

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lolol not famous im tiny man

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i appreciate the support

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 1:33 AM

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Nah it takes a lot to create content

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keep it coming.

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I've watched like your most recent 3 videos and they have been good.

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 1:34 AM

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thx man i've got a lot of ideas but gotta just start recording hah

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 1:34 AM

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It'll take some time but I will let you both know when my house is setup and i will test some limits of zwave LR and traditional zwave in my 4 story house. I'll have 75 switches in there. And a smattering of other devices

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 1:34 AM

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i've been wanting to get a new camera setup it isnt ideal

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nice nice - i've heard one guy was able to go 3 streets over and a battery device still worked

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but you lose some of the benefits of the traditional mesh going LR only on devices and you cant choose without re-pairing them

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 1:37 AM

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yeah i'll have to play - i would imagine the devices on the top or bottom floors would have to be mesh to connect up to the ones in the middle better

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but i am going to try to go full long range and see what i can do

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 1:39 AM

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keen laurel nice nice - i've heard one guy was able to go 3 streets over and a battery devic...

This was open-air tho. I am wondering how well it does through walls with long range

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if it can go from my basement to my 4th floor then i am gonna be like 😮

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 1:40 AM

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yeah line of sight will be way further but still it should be able to penetrate all the things

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LR does like a dynamic power ramp up during transmission

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 1:41 AM

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That's incredible.

keen laurel Nov 23, 2024, 1:42 AM

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there's currently a bug in the latest firmware with LR i think but we arent gonna get into that kekwpain

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im gonna go watch a movie ttyl dudes

mellow pond Nov 23, 2024, 1:42 AM

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later! thanks!

mellow pond Nov 24, 2024, 12:22 AM

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@keen laurel i saw your video about the zooz 800 long range GPIO module inside of that 3d printed thing. How does that differ from the usb stick? Is it more stable?

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BTW my zwave long range journey has started. Here's my first purchases! Thanks for pushing me guys. This will hopefully give me a good starting grid and i can add switches in the coming weeks/months

keen laurel Nov 24, 2024, 12:36 PM

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mellow pond <@237771007228641292> i saw your video about the zooz 800 long range GPIO module...

It’s not about stability it’s about removing the usb interference and centrally locating the controller for less hops and better signal strength

mellow pond Nov 28, 2024, 11:00 PM

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Wave 1

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Network stability

tranquil beacon Nov 28, 2024, 11:32 PM

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Smartest house is running a pretty serious sale on zwave stuff— might be smart to buy the rest!

mellow pond Nov 29, 2024, 12:57 AM

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That's where I got this stuff

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Most of what I have left is light switches. 😅 I have 75. I'll buy them all over this year.

mellow pond Dec 11, 2024, 3:21 AM

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mellow pond Wave 1

These guys are game changers

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My network is even more stable than it was in my previous house and I've only just started!

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Although I will say that my 800 stick isn't doing long range in zwavejsui but I haven't needed it yet

tranquil beacon Dec 11, 2024, 4:17 AM

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mellow pond Although I will say that my 800 stick isn't doing long range in zwavejsui but I ...

What do you mean not doing lr?

drowsy yacht Dec 11, 2024, 4:17 AM

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Don't need range extenders with LR

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You have to turn on LR after you scan the QR code

mellow pond Dec 11, 2024, 1:13 PM

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Ohhhh

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Yeah it was only giving me the option to do S2 authenticated. But I didn't try scanning the QR code. I just put it into inclusion mode

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I also wasn't sure in my house if I needed the range extenders or not because of all the walls.

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The fourth floor didn't connect to the dongle at all without the range extenders. I'll attempt LR tomorrow after I have internet and can do https

mellow pond Dec 11, 2024, 6:50 PM

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It's a protocol switch. GOT IT

mellow pond Dec 25, 2024, 2:25 AM

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well i can confirm now that the zwave long range does not reach to my 4th floor from my basement.

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however, most of my devices now are on my zwave mesh, i have no issues with them. I just tried to add a plug to long range today and it failed to add

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I have 4 range extenders, most of my devices are on mains now, and i have had zero instability with the zooz 800 chip plugs/switches and dongle

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Side note, i may need a bit of advice here - i have a 5 gang switch plate with a mix of dimmer, on/off, and fan switches, all with neutral bundle behind them all. That's a huge area but i don't know how the heck I am going to wire all those neutral wires together from the switches. Would the best way be to get like a 6 clip wago and a pigtail and connect them that way?

tranquil beacon Dec 25, 2024, 3:17 AM

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mellow pond Side note, i may need a bit of advice here - i have a 5 gang switch plate with a...

Most likely yes. That’s going to be a packed box though.

mellow pond Jan 1, 2025, 1:32 AM

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Good news - I will not have to replace all 5 of those switches

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Zwave is so solid. Glad I went with these switches.

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https://community.home-assistant.io/t/z-wave-plus-700-800-series-s2-zen-71-72-76-77-switches/414382/27

I found that blueprint that has made automations so easy

Home Assistant Community

Z-Wave Plus 700/800 Series S2 ZEN 71/72/76/77 Switches

You are looking at the wrong automation or you didn’t set the device.

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I've got some hue bulbs that I have thrown in the mix and these switches are great because you can keep the relay active and only utilize the smart switch.

tranquil beacon Jan 1, 2025, 2:43 AM

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mellow pond Zwave is so solid. Glad I went with these switches.

Really glad to hear this!

mellow pond Jan 3, 2025, 2:32 AM

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Man I'm so happy with the zooz Dimmers. I love how they can fade in and out.

#4 story townhouse and zwave long range. Best placement?