#Cannot add tado x device

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

crude moth
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Hi, im using Home Assistant in docker for some time now, with Zigbee. Im now trying to add a tado x Bridge, and a tado x radiator. Id like to keep it fully offline, without cloud. Ive installed the matter server, and am now trying to add the bridge and the radiator valve. I connected the bridge to my network, including internet, as it seemed not to work otherwise. Now im trying to add the valve to hass, using the new border router. Im not sure if i have to join it somehow, or if it is enough to have it in the same network as hass.

Now the issue: When i try to connect the valve via the qr code, it fails with a "No wifi connection". The error page seems to be a component of google play services.

How to fix or even debug this?

loud compass
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  • so the tado bridge is going to be your border router, or do you have other (thread enabled) border routers
  • are you adding it to HA through Matter first, or do you already have it in another system?
  • Matter is only officially supported on HAOS but not on docker, so that's also worth a shot if it works there
tranquil gale
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I'd strongly suggest to set the devices up at first in the 'official' way (online, through the tado app) so you get firmware updates and can verify that everything is actually working. During setup on the phone make sure the phone is in the same MDNS-routable network as the device, and in close-enough proximity to make Bluetooth/local wifi hotspot work.

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It should then be possible to re-export the radiator thermostat to HA, using the HA app on the same phone. That should give you an idea if your network setup is working and if HA Matter is doing fine.

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If you want to go internet-less, it should be enough to block access from the bridge to the internet. Just be aware that the tado Matter support is still a bit basic. You can control the setpoint, but not change the schedule.

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This way you can always go back and re-enable internet access for the bridge, and then get firmware updates or control device configuration through the tado app.

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If you want to go without the tado app: I'm not immediately sure the bridge setup itself supports that, I have not tried. But once it is configured it's a pretty dumb device anyway, and not itself a Matter device. The thermostat can be added to any other Matter fabric if the phone you use for setup has the right Thread network keys. Just factory reset the thermostat (battery out+in, immediately touch display until it asks for reset) and use the QR code on the device on on the card in the box it came with.

crude moth
# loud compass - so the tado bridge is going to be your border router, or do you have other (th...

so the tado bridge is going to be your border router, or do you have other (thread enabled) border routers
yes, its going to be the sole border router
are you adding it to HA through Matter first, or do you already have it in another system?
i'd do anything that works, i have no preference - only that it is supposed to be offline in my HAss. Tried both ways, but "add[ing it] to an existing system" doesnt work at all for me, as i dont have a "join code" available in the tado App. So, i'm currently trying to add it via the QR code.
i'm also not sure if a border router has to be added like a device or if it is treated differently by Matter.
Matter is only officially supported on HAOS but not on docker, so that's also worth a shot if it works there
i currently have no device at ahnd where i could install HAOS, but what i'm failing with rn currently does not seems like a Docker-related issue to me

crude moth
# tranquil gale I'd strongly suggest to set the devices up at first in the 'official' way (onlin...

set the devices up at first in the 'official' way (online, through the tado app) so you get firmware updates and can verify that everything is actually working
It should then be possible to re-export the radiator thermostat to HA, using the HA app on the same phone
so i cannot "share" my Thread router with the second network? i thought i could do this exact test with the Bridge already - do you think it should be have the same way? or should i try to add it anyways?
make sure the phone is in the same MDNS-routable network as the device
hm, very interesting point - i'll have to check that, but my IoT network should be able to be reached from the net my HAss is in, so i suppose mDNS would work.

crude moth
crude moth
tranquil gale
# crude moth > set the devices up at first in the 'official' way (online, through the tado ap...

I'm not sure I understand the first question. A TBR is basically just an IPv6 router, it does MDNS announcements for the Thread network, and some TBRs support NAT64. You don't need to 'share' it in a Matter sense, a simple TBR is not a Matter device - it is a network device. Once the tado TBR has been initially set up, it just works. You don't need (and you can not) configure it in practically any way. If you want to make it available to other networks, you need to do that by making sure packets in your home network get routed there. The TBR doesn't care where the packets are from.

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MDNS is surprisingly often an issue with people who do complex network stuff at home. Matter+Thread is seemingly designed for people who have a single Fritzbox and one network behind it. Once you have multiple VLANs things get complex. If you use Unifi tech you can enable MDNS sharing across the relevant VLANs and allow packet routing too. Usually I just recommend to have the phone used for setup join the exact same wifi as the TBR sits on for Matter device setups. (Even 2.4g vs 5g wifi is a problem for some routers!)

crude moth
crude moth
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the issue why i dont join the same network is that the tado app does not work anymore when i dont have internet...

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so, my phone's connected to wifi #1 with internet, which is bridged to wifi #2 which does not have internet access (not directly anyways)

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and btw, thank you very mutch for the insights and infirmation!

tranquil gale
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The QR code on the bridge is so that the tado app can use the same workflow no matter what device you're trying to install - you scan the code, it figures out the type of device and starts the correct flow. In the case of the bridge it also allows the phone to know how to talk to the bridge to initialize the Thread network credentials.

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The devices (bridge and thermostats) will need internet access to update the firmware. I would VERY STRONGLY recommend to at least do the first time setup on a network where this is possible. You can always factory reset them later (they won't loose the new firmware) and set them up in a separate network, or just block their access at that point. But I would not recommend relying on an old firmware version for all this newish Thread/Matter stuff that is still a moving target for implementation.

crude moth
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that's an issue now.. i tried to use the official tado App for setting up a bridge (fully resetted, that was successfull) and then a (fully resetted) valve.

However, this is the same error screen i got using the Home Assistant app when trying to set up the same (fully resetted) valve via the init QR code with the same bridge (joined to the IoT network via tado app).

could be mDNS? will update when i have more info

Screenshot_20241106-172232.png
crude moth
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i connected both my phone and the bridge to the same network, mDNS seems to be working, but i'm still getting this error

Screenshot_20241106-175928.png Screenshot_20241106-180235.png
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(and, of cause i tried to connect them to a network with internet access as well, resulting in the same error)

tranquil gale
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not sure I understand you correctly, is this when you try to install the bridge, or after the bridge is running when you try to install a thermostat?

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sorry, re-read your message, you said the bridge worked fine and this is the valve. What was shown before the "please connect to wifi" screen?

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it could be MDNS or IPv6, but if you're connected to the same wifi that's somewhat unlikely and if you would have client-isolation turned on on that wifi then the bridge setup would have already failed I think. Unfortunately the Matter setup process is still brittle even on current phones. Make sure you have updated versions of Google Play Services and the Google Home app (which for some reason is needed to make Matter setup work even if you don't use Google Home). Also make sure you use the exact same phone as when you set up the bridge, because that phone holds the Thread credentials you need for the valve.

crude moth
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double checked, client-isolation is definitely turned off

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i tried with both Google Home app installed and uninstalled - but very interesting that its actually required

tranquil gale
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oh and you need to be in close proximity to the valve. After scanning the code the tado app should talk to the valve via bluetooth to give it the Thread credentials, then the valve hops on the Thread network, then it announces itself via SRP/MDNS, and when the tado app sees the MDNS announcement it knows the device is ok and configures the Matter stuff.

crude moth
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is the screen from the Google Play Services? that could be the root of the issue, my play services are sandboxed (GrapheneOS)

tranquil gale
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If you see an error like the above very early in the process then that often means some requirement isn't fulfilled. But if you see it after a lot of bouncy geometric figures and after seeing an image of the device on screen then there is probably a communication issue.

crude moth
crude moth
tranquil gale
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yeah, but if you get to see that at all it means the basic Matter requirements are probably fulfilled

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I seriously worry that using a sandboxed Play Service might cause all sorts of odd issues here. Matter is still a bit brittle and everyone must rely heavily on the commissioning code in the OS services. Any limitations there could absolutely block something unexpected. I'm pretty sure the Play Services will need to talk to the network (probably even Internet) for making Matter commissioning work...

crude moth
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for Home Assistant the error appears like this: Add device, Matter, No its a new device, Scan a QR code (power by "google"), scanning the device qr, Prepare setup, im ready, no wifi connection

crude moth
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thank you so much for the help!

tranquil gale
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sure, np. Good luck!

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please let me know if you find sth out about GrapheneOS in this context, this is a rare setup and it would be good to know if there are systemic issues

crude moth
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true, i've degoogled quite far, and tinkered around with other stuff as well.. but i hope we can learn from my setup anyways 🙂

crude moth
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i borrowed another phone, which is not degoogled: after the known steps, it did not error, but asked for gps (+"improved" location), and bluetooth, and then failed ("has to connect to google servers"...).
i then disconnected my other iot stuff from power and then enabled internet access for the iot network. then, it actually connected to the valve (valve was showing "connecting")! however, the valve then showed "failed" and the phone showed me another error, this time about "your device needs a thread border router". now im fully confused - the device is in the same network as the border router, and i can see the border router is online?!

heady vine
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Are we sure the tado hub is a border router? I remember at least one wasn't.

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Ah; sorry I've just checked the website and the Wireless Receiver X and the Bridge X are thread border routers.

crude moth
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yup, the 3rd gen was proprietary, the x gen is matter/thread. but thanks for checking in!

heady vine
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And the docker container is using host networking?

tranquil gale
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did you re-setup the bridge first? The new phone does not have the Thread network credentials that the first phone set up during bridge commissioning.

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basically a Thread network is encrypted, the key is initialized during bridge setup and then stored on the phone that did the setup. Android only very recently learned the trick to share these keys between phones (via Google servers), I'm not sure about iOS. During device setup this key is given to the device over Bluetooth so it can join the Thread network.

crude moth
crude moth