[PORT] Spectator List

[flat plover]

DESCRIPTION: A plugin that shows players who is currently spectating them

DOWNLOAD: https://github.com/shank-scp/spectatorlist

Works with HSM, i did this because i needed it in LabAPI and decided to post it here.

CREDITS TO: saskyc, misfiy

[dreamy patio]

very epic plugin 👏

[sharp otter]

I'm confused

You ported a spectator list?

Can't you make one in like one file with like 10 likes of code

[flat plover]

yeah but i knew that this already existed and decided to port it to labapi

lol

[sharp otter]

Fair enough ig lol I just think it's funny you
#1: ported it
#2: credited two other people for a simple plugin

It's like if I published a Welcome Message plugin as a port and credited two people, when all it does is display text when a player joins

[flat plover]

I just wanted to give them credit since they wrote the original code, even though it’s simple.

[sharp otter]

Yes I understand that

It's just funny that you did this in the first place

I find comedy in the resulting events

I don't know how much more clearly I need to state that so that it's understood that I'm not saying you shouldn't have given credit or anything it's just funny that you did

[flat plover]

No worries, I already understood, I just wanted to make it clear

[dreamy patio]

that is incorrect. This plugin as you say could theoretically be made in 10 lines, but you need to take into consideration:

• Configuration
• Coroutine

[umbral granite]

your first time using c#?

[indigo hawk]

PlayerEvents.Joined += ev => ev.Player.SendBroadcast(Config!.WelcomeMessage);

[flat plover]

yes, i started a month ago using LabApi and C#

[umbral granite]

very good, there are people who laugh about your code, it seems that they born knowing c#. keep it up

[sharp otter]

It's a hyperbole
Configuration and coroutine can be added quite easily imo
I believe my point still stands

[sharp otter]

I don't intend to laugh at the plugin, I just think for something this simple it would be better to make your own plugin for an API rather than porting a pre-existing plugin to a new API
It's less learning and more guaranteed that your plugin won't be optimized

[umbral granite]

Sorry for being born without knowing how to program c#

[umbral granite]

And in order not to have the intention of laughing then what is this message?

[sharp otter]

I was laughing at the circumstances for the plugin
I encourage people to learn C# and grow and be awesome, but making a public plugin is an entirely different beast, and I think if you expect people to rely on your prowess, you should at least have more experience than porting basic plugins

The expectation placed on this person is now that they maintain this plugin through updates, add bug fixes, make QoL changes, add new configurations, etc.

And I think that's a lot to put on a new plugin developer

Especially considering that they can't even write their own spectator list

I will never hate on someone for learning a new programming language, and I try to help out as much as possible, just I find the idea of making ports of simple plugins public a little outrageous

I'm always around in LabAPI support and plugins and shit to help people learn, just I think diving in the deep end and getting others to rely on you while you're still learning is generally not a good idea

[umbral granite]

Ok, but let him start with something easy

[sharp otter]

Yes, but then don't make it public

That's my whole point here

There is no benefit to taking it public than allowing others to use the code you made, which entails the expectation of maintenance and improvement

And if you're porting a plugin as basic as this, then you obviously have no idea how to maintain nor improve upon the plugin in any kind of optimized way (let alone at all)

Which means there is no reason to make the plugin public

It's going to cause more issues for people who don't know how to program

They will come in here, download the plugin, then respond with error messages and ask why things aren't working

And this programmer won't know what to do about it

So the onus ends up on other people to fix a plugin they didn't want anything to do with in the first place

I want to add

That personally, I've made a lot of plugins

I still have yet to make any public plugin

And yet I'm in here helping devs make their own plugins and offering support however I can

Part of this is because the responsibility attached to maintaining a plugin is relatively large, and newer devs might not necessarily understand that

It is possible that this plugin that has been posted was made for the 14.1.3 version, which is now already obsolete

Which would mean we need an update

Will we see that update?

Maybe so, maybe not

Now maybe it is already up to date, but then the question is brought up: "what about the next update?"

It's okay to make plugins

It's okay to make mistakes

But if you're willingly putting yourself in a position where your mistakes can hurt other people, and you're still inexperienced, then you should be rethinking your choices

[umbral granite]

Yes, I understand you, but if it has errors and is not updated, then we can already think that he should not have made it public.

[sharp otter]

My point is that he ported a simple plugin
That demonstrates that he's very much not ready to work on his own public plugin because he can't even write his own basic code

You get my point?

If you can't write your own spectator list, then you're not competent enough in C# yet to have a publicly available plugin

Idek if he realizes he needs to update the plugin with every update or be available to make changes to the plugin based on user feedback

On top of that, he provided no documentation on what the config options are, how to use them or anything else

The average server owner will have no idea how to adjust these things

[umbral granite]

I understand you, but more than once I saw those people laughing at people's first plugins and I thought you were laughing at the plugin.

[sharp otter]

I totally get that

I think making your first plugin is a wonderful thing

We've all been there

I don't mean to be a snob or anything

I just want people to know what they're signing up for when they do something like this

There's no definitive guides on doing this kind of thing

[flat plover]

I mean, its not really that hard to know what you need to adjust, if you used already other plugins you may know how to configure this plugin. But i know that i had a bad decision of making it public, i dont think that i CANT update the plugin because im trying to learn and i will descifrate how to do it. Anyway thanks for your opinion

[sharp otter]

I hope you know I don't think you're doing a bad thing learning how to program or doing any of this
I just think you're taking on a big task and I want you to know what is in the future for this

My initial comments were just taking humor in the situation but I ended up having to explain my reaction in great detail and I fear it may have had the effect of being discouraging

The last thing I want is to turn away new developers, I want to encourage it

But I also want to be able to offer people the ability to make informed decisions, and I want to be realistic

You know your limits and abilities better than I do, if you think you're able to manage this then I'll trust you

I just want you to be able to understand what goes into this

[sharp otter]

Also, even if server owners have used other plugins like this before, you may have different config settings or otherwise that they don't know

Generally the primary audience for plugins are the people who don't know how to make them (otherwise a lot of devs are ambitious enough to make it themselves)

You want to take the approach of hand-holding people through every step

[flat plover]

Like this?

[sharp otter]

That's beautiful! Yes!

Spectacular

I really hope I didn't come off as rude in my comments, I'm sure you've read the messages here

It's not that I don't believe in you or your abilities or anything else

[flat plover]

Yes, i read them earlier and understood what you said

[sharp otter]

Okay phew lol

I worry a lot that I come off as an asshole

[flat plover]

No problem

[sharp otter]

For the record, I believe in you man
It shows a lot of enthusiasm to publish your own plugin and I think if you stick with it, you'll do great things