#Collisions - Update 5

29 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

rapid girder
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With this patch it feels like you have increased the amount of resistance a defending vehicle has to low/medium impact collisions.
Feels like there is also a reduced amount of reaction to impact force, for the attacker, in all collisions. And the friction between vehicles is near to zero.

Which makes side by side racing easier and accidental spins/blockages rarer.
These things also make defending cars hard to spin/move unless you ram, and when you ram there little consequence/risk to yourself unless you hit a static object.

In racing context this means diving up the inside line is the easy option. Wall ride on players. Defend just by holding the inside line. If they try overtake on the outside, lean.
There is very little the other driver can do, other than the same tactics, since you are hard to spin.

Overall there is little to no physical reaction in small to medium hits for either party. The collisions are mostly flat or vertical bounce which feel/look underwhelming, like crashing blocks of ice. Until you reach a threshold where the defending car becomes almost a low mass collision object. Bouncing around like its gone low gravity/mass.
This mostly happens when squeezed, making the defending car look like a 'squeezed bar of soap' flying in the air. Or you drive through/over/under people and the cars become ramps.

It makes crashing cheap, control less and risk free. And doesn't look or feel realistic or good. The previous build was better for all of the above in terms of collisions, other than 'squeezing a bar of soap' which hasn't changed.

Example vids

-Collisions old vs new when situations are similar
https://youtu.be/CFhAldcae-4

-Diving up the inside rather than racing
https://youtu.be/dt1OUp_FWWo

-Defending from inside and leaning without friction
https://youtu.be/HFYi_nr3J6I

-Driving under/over cars
https://youtu.be/8wjeBAQtCG8

-'Slippery soap cars'
https://youtu.be/Ak30vszebdA

Real life vid reference
https://www.facebook.com/reel/876411761505454

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misty kettle
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yeah this make sense

rare mango
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yeah can we get a hotfix to revert it back?

rapid girder
tall sleet
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Just adding more examples of cars 'pushing through' and how defenseless the leading car is. The only option to 'defend' against these moves is to do the exact same move in the next corner before the driver that just slid your door gets away. This makes for a neutered racing experience IMO, where good defense becomes impossible. Moving to the inside line doesn't reward me with holding my position, it rewards the driver behind because they just get to send it in to the corner harder with a bumper there to be their brakes for them. The semi-clean and 'racing' experience has taken a big step backwards with this last patch, and those communities are feeling it heavy.

misty kettle
rapid girder
small narwhal
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Not really directly collision related, well i guess it could be but something that has been bothering me probably more than many other issues, is the out of wack car balancing.

The cardinal, (based on 2010 crown vic), is a car that weighs more than any other car, around 4,150 lbs and it has a small v8(4.6 Liter, which is around 270'ish cubic inches). This is a tiny V8 for an over 2 ton car, yet the car is one of the fastest in the game at the moment. Able to outrun almost every other car on most of the tracks. The car doesn't handle like it weighs 2 tons.

In wf1 the cardinal was heavy and slow and in the top 5 for best heavy wreckers. In wf2 now it does not share this same designation as it did in wf1. Now it seems to be the fastest car of choice when it should be quite slower than the switchback, roadslayer and some other standard cars. Simply put the Cardinal should drive like a tank, because in reality it certainly is a tank.

I hope they get the balance more tuned to be in line with reality. Not every car needs to be unrealistically competitive with every other single car in the game.

I really hope this is fixed in future patches.

frank rampart
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Maybe a server setting to toggle between old and new collision impacts?

thick pond
errant quest
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i think this may also be why in SP, it feels like the field does not get spread out enough for figure 8 action until 6-8 laps in. because if its harder to spin/get far behind by crashes like that, its harder to get the thrill of crossing the intersection while its full of cars.
Not only is this detrimental for battles for clean servers, this can also be detrimental for dirty servers as well. pls change it back soon!

tall sleet
# thick pond https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1418771981549043813/1450524460812865851/a...

I would be curious to know if the car you hit was holding their e-brake at the time of impact. I've noticed with drivers getting in to my rear end that if I yank the e-brake I become somewhat of an immovable object to them. See Clip.

Also noticed if 2 wheels are lifted and 2 are on the ground, and you yank the e-brake, the car slams back down to the ground very forcefully. Almost like the e-brake works to 'level out' the car so long as there's at least 1 or 2 tires still touching the ground. I could see that quirk with the e-brake effecting your ability to send a car you smack at 108 kmh in to the nether 😅

gritty axle
quaint fog
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Content update 4 was peak wreckfest 2

Rn the game is simply not fun anymore. Not fun to race and definitely not to crash anymore

wheat escarp
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I suspect it might be a controversial take, but I'll miss this type of collisions if they disappear from Wreckfest. Realism is good and all, and I'm all up for fancier physics generally, but this kind of yeeting just makes the game way more fun to me - and plenty of people, I believe.

Doesn't have to be that prominent, but my main takeaway is, let us feel our impact on others very well!

quaint fog
# wheat escarp I suspect it might be a controversial take, but I'll miss this type of collision...

awesome, you already have game that fulfills your desires. Now let more people that didn't particulary enjoy that have fun too. Those collision physics and everything were believable before, visceral and fun.

Rn it feels like soapy bumper cars.

Focus should be rather on word 'believable' rather than 'realistic'.. During CU4 it was believable and fun. Not realistic per say but crashes were visceral and had consequences. This 'yeeting' can be fun for a while but gets annoying real fast for people that are not here to play pure dirty/derby servers. And it's definitely not believable.
There still could be balance between two but that's on BB to do.

A lof to newcomers came to WF2 and stuck around because it was believable. It felt like you're experiencing true folk/banger racing. It gave the feeling of impact having weight and consequence. It was visceral and gave great impression on what it feels like to crash a car. This has been lost with recent update. A lot of people are negative about it and also straight leaving because you can't really have fun races anymore with the current state where you just get bumped around like pinball and ''yeeted'' from even minor collision.

Believable should be the goal. For realistic you go play BeamNG. But if you want to have fun racing in believable environment without one hit ending your game you came here to Wreckfest 2.

As I said for many content update 4 was peak wreckfest 2 experience. (it had it's issues for sure) Now it feel's more like WF1 with nicer graphics and less content. Which is good for ''WF1 vets'' but alienates newcomers looking for that middle ground between 'arcade' racer and 'realistic' simulator. You won't expand player base and have more sales by watering WF2 down to WF1 standards. Otherwise WF1 would be popping still and have large player base. Wouldn't need sequel.

I just think there needs to be balance found between those 2 states. It just feels overtuned rn.

wheat escarp
# quaint fog awesome, you already have game that fulfills your desires. Now let more people t...

you already have game that fulfills your desires
That game is 12 years old, it's not an argument. =)

Focus should be rather on
Sure. You express your opinion, I express mine (and of many more people I know).
There still could be balance between two but that's on BB to do.
Exactly. Based on how they see the game and what most people express, at the end of the day. I'm also a part of the playerbase, just as you.

A lot of people are negative about it and also straight leaving
Again, works both ways. I've seen a bunch of negative reviews stating WF2 is "boring".
you can't really have fun races anymore
Still applicable both ways perfectly, see the previous sentence :D

Now it feel's more like WF1
Well, I've stated before that I disagree with that. Those who enjoy WF1 still play WF1, not just because of the content variety - you'd think the veterans would get tired from playing all the same tracks for years and would like to switch, anyway.

that middle ground between 'arcade' racer and 'realistic' simulator
That's my vision of Wreckfest as well. And I think it can be balanced very well between Normal and Realistic modes. Maybe additional ones on top of that.

Otherwise WF1 would be popping still and have large player base.
What do you even mean? Have you seen the stats? It's one of the most consistent niche games out there, just look at the online numbers since release in 2018. https://steamcharts.com/app/228380
It has incredibly loyal playerbase. But it doesn't mean they have to play the same one game for eternity.

Wouldn't need sequel.
Sequels are driven not only by the aim of attracting different audience, obviously. There are business reasons, hype/marketing reasons, getting rid of legacy drawbacks, reinviting the old players as well as attracting new ones and so on. If anything, communities tend to provide grave backlash when devs decide to change the formula too much, there are plenty of examples between different game series. =)

Wreckfest - Steam Charts
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I just think there needs to be balance found between those 2 states.
I totally agree!

I just expressed what was a big part of the fun of the game that made me and many others to stick for a long while. I think it's important for Bugbear to know what appeals different people.
I already know I'll spend dozens, if not hundreds, of hours in customisation tools alone, they hit right at heart with that. Hopefully they can hit it for as many as possible with the physics, too. =)

quaint fog
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https://steamcharts.com/app/1203190

weird that game with less content, 'almost nothing to do' and a lot of issues is pulling similar numbers already. Guess it's the physics and good racing that it had from prior to latest changes.

But all I see rn in servers are people complaining about bumper cars physics and not having fun anymore. Leaving after few races. You tell me where the issue is. This didn't happen before.

Wreckfest 2 - Steam Charts
rapid girder
quaint fog
wheat escarp
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Hitting car feels next to nothing
That's the main issue to me personally.

I'll just repeat myself: my main takeaway is, let us feel our impact on others very well!

I do support better physics overall. I have also supported this post, as one can see if they check the reactions. It's not necessarily about believability, realism, simplicity/arcadeness or any specific narrower definition to me.
All I really want is that it feels very interactable between the racers, whether it's on impacts, skill level defining how faster you can be, takeovers. But since it's a game about derby racing, the aspect of physical contacts and how fun they feel is primary to me.

I think the "stickiness" is not necessary for the game, but the videos in the first message show well that cars used to interact much better and cooler (even if in less "octane" fashion) before. So ideally the impacts would fell like they had, how to put it, better calculation behind them.

Anyway, yeah, thanks for the post, we'll see what they cook. =)

rapid girder
# wheat escarp > Hitting car feels next to nothing That's the main issue to me personally. I'l...

Tough to definitively word isn't it without using the extremes or general terms that don't really explain what is going on. I tried to avoid that specifically in topic so things are less subjective. Absolutely agree that this is a derby/contact racing game by design though and therefore physical contact, collisions and to the same extent (not covered in this criticism) deform + health damage, which can also affect collisions. Are really important to the game design.

1 thing i will add is that I think there are things that people maybe don't like, which are directly linked to things which people do like. Since the game is physics based, you cant have 1 thing without the other basically. Without adding additional systems to game engine which aren't physics based at least imo.

For example: Impact force not being felt by hitter and low<>med impacts not felt by receiver. Makes side by side racing easier but also make racing contact 'cheaper'/ less controlled. Low friction is similar (no stickyness), easier side by side racing but then no accidental pileups/crashes, sliding under/over/through and sliding off cars etc. They are directly linked.

Some of these changes in the recent patch are probably done with the best intentions to appease specific complaints, but they have created other/more problems at the same time.

wheat escarp
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Yeah. I'm not a fan of how in Wreckfest a puny Killerbee or Tristar can spin a 2500+ kg vehicle effortlessly, for example. But then there's game balance... If you make it realistic, tiny cars won't see any light on dirty servers since they won't be viable - unless they become broken like Raiden, but then I don't think everyone would like another post-Raiden era.

Spontaneous piling sounds fun to me. But I also remember how earlier in WF2 if someone hit brakes, they would become immovable (the clip is from March, don't mind the sound). That's also not fun and reminds me of those people who don't fight but make their priority blocking everyone and pinning them down endlessly instead of both racing and fighting, if that's encouraged by physics it would lead to a lot of frustration for so many people, additional annoyance is limiting reverse driving doesn't prevent such behaviour

rapid girder
# wheat escarp Yeah. I'm not a fan of how in Wreckfest a puny Killerbee or Tristar can spin a 2...

Also very true. I have been banging on about that from the start of dev, that vehicles should behave somewhat like there real life counterparts. Which would make small/novelty vehicles essentially useless in a dirty server, unless everyone else is in a small or similar novelty vehicle aswell (classes/sever side vehicle restrictions?). Rather than trying to bundle everything together by breaking physics laws which creates its own problems.

With the above clip sure that is annoying but somewhat avoidable imo as the player, that still exists just differently now as seen here https://youtu.be/HFYi_nr3J6I
That was me being somewhat sensible, i could've just leant them into the wall/static object every time they tried to pass instead, whilst making no effort to drive fast or race (*BOT 10 is a real player btw, not a bot incase of any confusion). Same gameplay problem but now you can win a race by doing it?

YouTube
S223
def and leans
▶ Play video
wheat escarp
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Yes, that still exists despite the game becoming more arcade, ideally it would get addressed somehow...
As I see it, the potentially bigger factor to the issue is that almost all tracks are narrow and short, racers don't have either the opportunity to gain speed to ram away the blockers nor space to move around, but that's a whole another topic with the track design.

So far it's quite avoidable, I agree - until we get something like a limo or a school bus, in such case boy oh boy the amount of rage that's going to come down to this server.

rapid girder
# wheat escarp Yes, that still exists despite the game becoming more arcade, ideally it would g...

I am not sure about tracks being too small and narrow. Real life dictates that its not a issue so why should it be a problem in game? but ye its a different topic for sure.

With the bus or limo i can see it going either way. If they make them slow/cumbersome and clumsy (motorhome-esque) like reality, then they will be true novelty vehicles whilst being able to block the track. Biggest hits if landed, near instant dnf if miss. Server side option again for people who don't want people to block the track? and unique/entertaining to race against themselves.

People will criticise if implemented like WF1, people will also criticise they are implemented like motorhome in WF2. Depends on game direction, and if want to use the justification of 'somewhat realistic physics' or not