That may or may not be better than "Widlarizing" them.
#general-chat
late fulcrum
real falcon
@dusty citrus hmm must have misremembered. thanks
sick adder
Working with these machines is very difficult. Before you begin, look at your life, and what choices brought you to this point
bahaha https://learn.adafruit.com/electroknit
grave crest
Make it sew.
dusty citrus
@real falcon I had to look it up, myself. ;) JPL Horizons always mentions the Barycenter.
JPL Horizons
okay for public use!
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi
Good for ephemerides (Sun, 9 planets and other objects of interest).
hasty quarry
What do you guys do when the coffee really kicks
I tend to get very very talkative (yes, more than usual...insane), and wayyyy more friendly and sociable
dusty citrus
Yeah me too.
I regret I cannot drink the coffee all day long, so it's a morning boost only.
I'm told I'm quite the chatterbox when I've just had my coffee. Ideas are popping, it's definitive (not just subjective).
@hasty quarry I don't know you from your brother; but one of you is very sociable. The other's more of the Teller to your Penn (or vice-versa).
I knew identical twins in my 20's and occasionally I'd say hello to the one I knew well, only to find out it was her sister (who informed me of this). ;)
hasty quarry
Oh man
stoic mesa
wow!!
Maybe it is a good time to evacuate... just in case.
tardy badger
Yeah I’d say so
dusty citrus
Some cities were planned with wide avenues as fire breaks. Centuries ago, iirc.
tardy badger
I remember having to evacuate for a file back in 2007 right after we moved in
dusty citrus
I've been 'next door' to two decent sized dwelling fires.
dusty citrus
Three, come to think of it, though the third was a good 400 feet away (but with no intervening buildings, so I could see the whole thing)
tardy badger
That burned about 1/8 mile from my home
dusty citrus
I've literally never seen a 'spreading' fire anywhere near a dwelling.
tardy badger
We could see flames shooting over the hill near our home
dusty citrus
Imagine it's the year 1632 and you're 50 miles in, to a dry forest, and fire breaks out.
The NOAA fire forecasts are telling, in what's important.
tardy badger
Interesting enough, letting forests grow unmanaged makes fires worse
dusty citrus
tardy badger
Native Americans knew this and regularly did small under brush burns to reduce vegetation on the forest floor.
dusty citrus
Probably costs a lot of money to 'do it right' in California, due to terrain and such.
They'll probably get locusts, too. -- On California, generally
tardy badger
Probably cheaper to clear under brush than pay billions in government backed insurance claims
Every year
Plus it would help with drought conditions too
Because less things competing for water
dusty citrus
I never thought about it: a 1/2 acre land parcel, with competition for the available ground water. ;)
In Connecticut, all of a sudden, everywhere you went, the brush had been cleared from the limited-access highways.
It was kind of astonishing.
River beds, too.
Like someone had come up with a new business model for this.
They probably were able to use a lot of what they cut, but I don't know just for what.. mulch, maybe.
Collectively, it was a lot of biomass.
fathom relic
Supposedly, when explorers came through the west, the forests were in a state where two could ride side by side on horseback through them. Mostly large trees spread out, little undergrowth.
Since then many areas are hard to squeeze through even on foot.
late fulcrum
In North Carolina, the land under power lines has been cleared, leaving poorly drained sandy ground behind. It was rapidly colonized by the plants adapted to those conditions: venus flytraps.
tardy badger
I think grass and small shrubs are generally okay but too many trees competing for limited resources is what makes the fires so much more prevalent
fathom relic
Part of these california fires are not really in forested areas, they are dry chaparral areas, so not much there but grass and shrubs, that when they do get rain get dense
tardy badger
Yeah
Need some mitigation
But those kinds of fires are heavily influenced by drought too
Which forest density can affect down stream drought
fathom relic
the pre-colonial strategy was probably no permanent structures, migrating out of unsafe areas in fire season, combined with yearly burnoff
dusty citrus
People probably knew enough to not surround themselves with fire hazards and no escape routes.
The ones that didn't received early darwin awards for excellence.
velvet pelican
I mean the fires here were set off by stupid people following some terrorist or anarchy group. Cant tell you how many times i hear over the scanner that people were caught setting fires
weary fiber
ngl that aggravates me a decent bit
Just like... imagining the complete lack of human empathy that would be required to do such a thing as intentionally starting forest fires
dusty citrus
The hidden disorder in the world is slightly more available to people who are curious about that. Most people are good, most of the time, where I live.
jovial swift
@velvet pelican @weary fiber Hang in there, just saw the weather, conditions should improve over the next couple of days, some rain (too bad we can't divert a bit of Sally your way...)
dusty citrus
https://kamala.cod.edu/TPC/latest.wtnt44.KNHC.html
WTNT44 KNHC
02:00 UTC 14 SEP 2020
FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS
24H 15/0000Z 29.0N 88.3W 70 KT 80 MPH
36H 15/1200Z 29.4N 89.0W 80 KT 90 MPH
48H 16/0000Z 30.3N 89.4W 70 KT 80 MPH...INLAND
60H 16/1200Z 31.2N 89.1W 45 KT 50 MPH...INLAND
Sally, Current
dvorak tropical floater (GOES):
https://cdn.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/FLOATER/data/AL192020/14/2000x2000.jpg
Laura, 18:20z 26 August (proper eyewall, same Dvorak algorithm, Band 14):
https://cdn.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/FLOATER/data/AL132020/14/20202391820_GOES16-ABI-FL-14-AL132020-2000x2000.jpg
velvet pelican
I mean the fire itself is around 6.5 miles away but we are still in the go now evac zone as of now @jovial swift
real falcon
😦 be safe. here is safe but nearly 300 aqi
velvet pelican
@weary fiber yeah listening to a firefighter tell the cop to just shoot one of the guys and throw em in the fire kinda said it all
You can tell how mad the fireman are who put their necks on the line to save homes and property as best they could. They are doing a great job thus far. Last i knew only 12 homes and 40 total structures (most being hay barns n such) have burned in an area that has i would guess 4-5000 homes
And yeah the air index here is 350 @real falcon so i know what ya mean. At my house its full on the worst it can get for that index at least 5x as thick of smoke there
real falcon
i made this to help air stay clean inside
this house is old, and dont have cenetralized air system
dusty citrus
One year our sky was 'wrong' because of fires in Canada - from Connecticut.
I don't remember if you could smell it, but you could sure see it was wrong.
And did not remember ever seeing that kind of sky from a more local fire source.
That was less than 8 years ago, I'd guess.
real falcon
pretty far
zealous ermine
so i finished up an 11 hour print for a robotic arm, but set the infill wrong, so when i pressed in the bearings, the internals collapsed
so now im printing it again
it was 50m of filament too 😦
real falcon
nothing worse than successfl failure
velvet pelican
@real falcon are you on the west coast or has that smoke gone further than I thought
fathom relic
@velvet pelican What area are you in? I'm in Southern California, and in a mailing list full of people listening to scanners, and hearing nothing like that about arsonists. There are known trolling false stories going around on facebook, nextdoor and others claiming stuff like you are saying about groups setting fires.
dusty citrus
Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear.
real falcon
west coast yeah at tacoma.
velvet pelican
@fathom relic clackamas county riverside fire is the one ive been listening for its the clackamas co fire department on the scanner. I just heard it quite a few times on there myself it was fairly late for both time being around 11 pm
real falcon
226 now. improving
sick adder
aha just what I needed via https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/53s64q/help_standard_60_pcb_dimensions_mounting_holes/
burnt tendon
Well, now you've got the hole truth.
velvet pelican
@real falcon rain is moving in down here so i am hopeful that it will improve
real falcon
it should rain on wed or thurs here yeah
velvet pelican
Yeah give me a good storm and then clear off so i can continue on my house lol
We just got lowered to level 2 for evac now so we can go back home at least
real falcon
🙂
winter hare
gotta love google search suggest https://i.gyazo.com/f2f33f54dbb3dca4add0ed637c5622e2.png
When you've written code so poor that you need to repent.
velvet pelican
Now that^ is your computer calling out your code intellect
dusty citrus
Very bright, very red, very high in the sky. Mars.
tardy badger
stuck moth
@tardy badger recognize that some of your peers probably aren't as lucky
stuck moth
I believe it
tardy badger
Two years ago all I got was ghosted by companies which is terribly soul crushing, but I started working on projects, and sharing what I was doing as much as possible and I got the offer I wanted.
stuck moth
nice!
tardy badger
And I found this community too 😄
Adafruit I would say has been a big part of my success because I found people here who gave me confidence and helped me learn
stuck moth
awesome! there are lots of thoughtful folks here
tardy badger
Some real gems too. People with extraordinary backgrounds and experience.
tardy badger
Basically graduating December 12th and hitting the road to Utah December 13th
stuck moth
for vacation or a move?
stuck moth
where in utah? I have a buddy in salt lake
tardy badger
Salt Lake
stuck moth
👍 he likes it there
tardy badger
I live in Wyoming for over a decade and I just love the Rockies
stuck moth
I was amazed at how close the mountains were so you should feel right at home
tardy badger
Oh I’m sure 😉 I used to visit SLC all the time
short pulsar
Sounds like time to find an open alternative to Fusion 360.
tardy badger
Why do you say that?
short pulsar
From today: https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/changes-to-fusion-360-for-personal-use/
short pulsar
It still retains a lot of powerful features but it will always be uncertain to eventually go on full lockdown. May want to export your important files now just in case.
burnt tendon
Surprise-o-meter reads zero
stoic mesa
😦
good that I have the education license, but still
OTOH, 20 years ago to buy a license for PRO/Engineer you would need to sell your kidney... maybe both of them
polar bloom
There's always the option of paying for the software you use. 🙂
stoic mesa
true
polar bloom
Not that Autodesk needs the money but people sometimes go to great lengths to avoid paying a few bucks for software that they use all the time.
haughty smelt
Anything I use like this I always suspect could be fully locked down. $33/month (for me in canada) to get it for a year isn't that bad, if I think what I spend on Adafruit parts monthly (I try not to think of that)
polar bloom
I'd rather see independent software developers create alternative tools, but that's a huge risk (because people don't want to pay for software) and so it doesn't really happen. There is always open source, but if that's a project run by hobbyists it often lacks in quality. And it directly competes with indie developers who are trying to make a living from this.
In other words, if you don't want big companies such as Autodesk to own the market, support small independent developers with your money. 🙂
velvet pelican
I look at blender and am amazed at the quality for being free
Completely donation based projects tend to make good money
stoic mesa
unfortunately, I can't see an indie develoepr making a full-featured CAD/CAM software - this is just too large a job
But I'd gladly pay for some of the open source tools I am using, from Arduino IDE (I made some donations, maybe too modest) to Inkscape to Linux
velvet pelican
If the project is good that is
polar bloom
The ideal is indeed open source that is supported by a company that gets paid somehow, so they can attract and keep talented developers.
stoic mesa
to an extent, that's what happened to Linux
polar bloom
But something like Inkscape, I don't think it's high quality software. It mostly works, and if you have no money it's a useful tool, but it's not a great tool. I'd rather pay $50 or whatever for Affinity Designer, which just works so much nicer. (Or if I was an illustrator, I'd pay for an Adobe subscription because I'd use it all the time.) I'm not sure if anyone is working full-time on Inkscape or if it's a weekends and evenings kind of project for a handful of people.
You're right that a full-featured CAD program is a huge undertaking. But Eagle is expensive and hard to learn (with lots of old baggage), KiCad is free and hard to learn. There must be room for an easy-to-use $50 PCB design app in the market.
Anyway, just my thoughts as an indie software developer 😄
burnt tendon
I dono, I feel like we're well past the Cambrian Explosion in a lot of software categories. Sure, there are new features, but we've built pretty much all of the groundbreaking versions thereof already and don't have a particularly good model for how to make this work.
Like, open source is great but I know too many burned out maintainers.
polar bloom
Yes, because they don't get paid (enough).
burnt tendon
And there's this uneasy thing where it's really hard to actually deliver a lot of the un-glamorous bits of software like a support desk, driver updates, patches, et al. if you charge a one-time fee for the software, yet part of the problem is being beholden to a maintenance fee that is kinda a license for someone else to print money.
After my two-year dive in to the world of CAD/CAM/CAE, I have this uneasy feeling like some sort of open-source-ish model is actually required for engineering software.
polar bloom
I feel that for CAD, PCB layout etc, there is room now for simpler packages that don't have to carry the baggage of 30 years with them. Eagle and AutoCAD etc are great for professionals who specialize in those tools. But there are now a lot of hobbyists for whom simpler tools are better (e.g. why not automatic breadboard layout, or perf-board layouts?).
tardy badger
I feel that for CAD, PCB layout etc, there is room now for simpler packages that don't have to carry the baggage of 30 years with them. Eagle and AutoCAD etc are great for professionals who specialize in those tools. But there are now a lot of hobbyists for whom simpler tools are better (e.g. why not automatic breadboard layout, or perf-board layouts?).
@polar bloom mostly because there are infinite possibilities in layout and delivering a good layout within constraints would push beyond the limits of the average user system
late fulcrum
There is Fritzing
tardy badger
And even with crowd infrastructure, there’s still limitations to that operating efficiently
But @late fulcrum is right, Fritzing is an option
burnt tendon
Yah, engineering stuff is kinda in the world where it's really ridiculously hard to make it easy instead of just limited.
polar bloom
@tardy badger Not saying it's easy 🙂 But there are other innovations that could be used, such as machine learning for doing layout etc. Plus schematics for hobby projects are generally fairly small.
Fritzing is an excellent example and I'm glad they're charging money for it.
But it shouldn't be the only option. 🙂
burnt tendon
Yah, them charging for it kinda bugs me, but at the same time, a free open-source tool that's beginner friendly is kinda the worst of all possible worlds in terms of drive-by bug tickets.
tardy badger
I suppose most hobbyists are more than happy to dive deep into the steep learning curves of CAD software. Often the curve isn’t so much with the software, but intuitive design and resources that actually explain thoroughly without loads of jargon from the get go
burnt tendon
Yeah, that's totally where I am, @tardy badger.
I mean, I know there are hobbyists who are the exact opposite, but at least for me, I kinda enjoy the challenge of making FreeCAD work instead of TinkerCAD, even though I mostly just prove Naomi Wu right.
tardy badger
It’s easy for someone who’s been designing electronics for 15 years to throw jargon around, but it tends to be gatekeeper for a lot of novices
My first experience getting my circuit reviewed was brutal
And I’m going to school for this stuff, it was still difficult
Mostly because people just expect someone trying to get into circuit design and PCB design to be naturally good
burnt tendon
Also, to be fair, the book publishing industry much prefers books that require you to buy several more different but similar books instead of a single well-written one.
tardy badger
This community has been great though in regards to simplifying things for beginners
Open source knowledge is a wonderful thing
burnt tendon
Yah, it's a lot easier to find adafruit's discord than to meet the right group of people who will eventually let you hang out in their secret art space and watch and learn.
polar bloom
I'm just a little disappointed that "open source" is more about taking than about giving.
tardy badger
I'm just a little disappointed that "open source" is more about taking than about giving.
@polar bloom it’s slowly changing
And honestly I think companies like Adafruit have been pivotal to that
polar bloom
Yeah I think Adafruit is great.
tardy badger
SparkFun as well has been really good with open source support
polar bloom
But I also think the software we all use could be a lot better, and open source doesn't necessarily fix that (unless it is well funded, like Blender is). So it's either: be beholden to big companies and hope they don't change their terms&conditions on you, or: use open source and struggle to get the results you want.
Or: have a healthy ecosystem of small developers that produce software that is better than open source, but perhaps less powerful than "pro" packages.
For example, I don't know if the Arduino Pro IDE will be paid software, but it would be good if it was.
late fulcrum
If I end up switching to Kicad, it will improve because I will improve it.
velvet pelican
Best kind of improvement ^
burnt tendon
Yah, I think the overarching problem is that the original people who kicked off the Open Source buzzword were primarily concerned with very blind and somewhat arbitrary libertarian-ish goals and not really with what would make for an open community.
People who were too cool to take their humanities classes seriously but still think of themselves as smarter than a humanities prof.
stoic mesa
for the record, it started with "Free Software", and the leader of that movement was Stallman, aka RMS.
The label "Open Source" was much later, and RMS was much opposed to mixing the two - as technically, a proprietary app can very well be open source.
burnt tendon
Yah, as it turns out, I'm annoyed at both the Free Software people and the Open Source people frequently. 😄
stoic mesa
You are not particular in your annoyances 🙂
burnt tendon
Well, also, RMS was one guy at a point in time with one attempt to codify the lisp-machine "hacker ethos" Kermet was already being distributed with an open-source-ish/free-software-ish license, for example.
stoic mesa
but of course, without RMS there would be no GNU, and where we all would be without gcc?
burnt tendon
Someone else would have probably come up with something similar.
Remember, RMS in particular has been given a free pass for years to get away with harassing female students at MIT and otherwise being creepy because he was some great guy.
stoic mesa
I am not going into that debate
burnt tendon
Similarly, both forks ignore the presence of artists-who-don't-code-but-use-software.
Everything about the GPL assumes that a person is capable of reverse engineering everything about the software from the source and will probably enjoy the process.
And, for that matter, the world of open source didn't even start to have the conversation about what it meant to be a participant in a community for several decades.
stoic mesa
I'd expect FOSS worls has quite a few people who have been participants for several decades
storm maple
Digi-Key not showing lead times for products in-stock on Adafruit.com 😦 #sadpanda
haughty smelt
Sad I had to miss S&T and ask an engineer tonight. But on the plus side I now have something to watch tomorrow
sick adder
thank you wikipedia for mentioning what had to be mentioned.
velvet pelican
Ok so i got all moved back into my place since the fires are gone and now im hearing we are gonna get a flash flood tonight and have thunderstorms
tardy badger
It’s always something with 2020
velvet pelican
Next its an earthquake followed by a tornado
Or a volcanic eruption
Or maybe both
idle iron
oscilloscope music is amazing https://youtu.be/4gibcRfp4zA
reminds me of Futurama "holophonor"
fathom relic
@velvet pelican around there, more likely earthquake followed by tidal wave
dusty citrus
When you get old people will roll their eyes and say you're exaggerating about how bad it was in 2020.
So take some movies. ;)
velvet pelican
@fathom relic im on the mountain no tidal waves here unless its one made of lava
versed iron
Is there a #help-with-stemma ? I wanted to know if this hack was relevant to better understand the Stemma world: https://twitter.com/fast_code_r_us/status/1306708358750187522?s=19
late fulcrum
Not all of my soldering looks good. When I needed a 2 ohm, 2 watt resistor in the middle of the night for an emergency refrigerator repair, I made this one out of eight 1 ohm, ¼ watt resistors while half asleep. It's ugly, but lasted 12 years until another failure (cracked solder joint on a relay pin) had me take the board out and I swapped in a 2 ohm, 5 watt resistor.
velvet pelican
Lol that looks like one of them hurry up n solder jobs that ive done in the past. Only mine didn’t hold as long
umbral phoenix
@versed iron Looks like the pin usage is slightly different between Stemma and Grove for non-I2C https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-adafruit-stemma-qt?view=all#stemma-qt-comparison
still plinth
still better then me lol
sick adder
@late fulcrum expedient solderers, represent
I soldered some ugly resistors the other day but hid them behind ugly shrink tubing
velvet pelican
Lol
green hemlock
electrons --- dont know what ugly is
velvet pelican
Whatchu saying that solder looks fiiiiine lol
scenic cove
:/
if done by a blind man
sure
kinda wanna redo it, but... nah. aint gonna mess with it
velvet pelican
If dont is correct : )
scenic cove
He seem to have though
velvet pelican
And the sarcasm was in that fiiine
velvet pelican
Looks like it was hot enough to pull pm the top there
But the bottom didnt pull or just a bit too much solder
velvet pelican
I always have issues with not waiting long enough for things to heat due to worry about burning things up
scenic cove
yeah, of course that is a worry but..
velvet pelican
But my soldering iron is a gas one so it heats way faster than the electric ive used
scenic cove
these pads are giant and it's 1 layer ;)
velvet pelican
Lol
scenic cove
dude could've retired 10 times and it would have been fine
velvet pelican
Best practice piece
scenic cove
Would feel bad mangling a nice bench power supply
question is, can i trust these not to blow up?
age unknown
late fulcrum
You can measure their leakage, and try to re-form them. However it is possible that they've lost capacitance and while they won't blow up, they won't work very well either.
scenic cove
How does one reform caps?
late fulcrum
Apply a current limited voltage to them and monitor the current. It should drop as the oxide layer dielectric reforms.
late fulcrum
It's the sort of thing that comes up on antique radio restoration groups
velvet pelican
Ya see thats the kinda knowledge that shouldn’t be lost to the ages
Little niche things that are useful for repair but then again everything is throw away and replace
scenic cove
new things are
velvet pelican
New things are due to the cost of the parts for repair more often than not and also the repairman cost is another factor since alot of people dont even try to repair stuff out of fear of failure
scenic cove
and engineers defaulting to a microcontroller when they want to blink an led ;)
velvet pelican
Lol arduino is a cheap solution for that
scenic cove
dollars?
scenic cove
i mean i love arduinos and all that but they have their places
you can do a ton with simple circuits that costs cents in parts :)
velvet pelican
Most definitely
I don’t have alot of experience with circutry so it made sense to me to go with something simple and well documented
scenic cove
Yeah that's what's great about it, I started there and worked backwards
velvet pelican
Mine works good for the application i used it for with a little (lot) pf help from annonengineering
tardy badger
A moment of silence for Ruth Bader Ginsburg 😭
scenic cove
Cool
tardy badger
Hey @stuck moth my new lattice boards will be in next week, I just need to order some 100K 0402 resistors... but I’ll hopefully be ready to potentially use your SoC code to maybe make some RGBs blink 🤓
stuck moth
@tardy badger it doesn’t do much atm. It’s mostly reorganizing the lambda doc stuff
dusty citrus
@zealous ermine
https://celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/
weary fiber
just finished my class schedule for the spring semester
I'm actually really excited!
late fulcrum
Looks like a crunchy semester. Last time I had one like that, I ended up swapping out one of the crunchy courses for set construction. It turned out that swinging a hammer and building stuff was the perfect anodyne for all that brain work.
weary fiber
the rough part is that I'll also be doing 24 hour workweeks at the same time ;;
scenic cove
@late fulcrum measured em out and tested it, ran just fine. cheers for the tip!
tardy badger
@weary fiber brings back memories. I’m on my last semester of school
late fulcrum
@scenic cove Your supply is a little newer than mine, but just what you need for that job, great!
scenic cove
Babysteps ;)
uncut frigate
@tardy badger didn't want to get in between the help section with the casual conversation. Yeah im thinking of switching to FTDI. Even though I was asking for help with my arduino I think I figured out my issue with it
tardy badger
the faux nanos tend to like the old bootloader though.. you can change that with another arduino
uncut frigate
well yeah. the problem wasn't the bootloader
I tested on another of the same thing and it uploaded the program fine, but the one that I have soldered the pins correctly after finally getting technique is the actual issue
tardy badger
I only skimmed the problem
if you do switch to FTDI, be sure to connect TEST and GND
uncut frigate
Good to know
tardy badger
that was a hard less learned lol
uncut frigate
ooof
tardy badger
but now I have a solid arduino nano design that I can fab any time 🙂
I also have a smaller atmega328p board that I'm bring up to sell here soon 🙂
uncut frigate
nice. Sounds like its all good then. Do you think I might be able to flash the CH340 chip of the current one I have and see if I can get it to work? Im a beginner on the arduino stuff. I am more familiar with rasberry pis and PC computers
im thinking if its having trouble reading flash memory that I should probably redo the chip
tardy badger
You should be able to
does it give you a specific error when you try to upload the board with the CH340?
uncut frigate
all of them are CH340, the error saying it fails to read all the flash memory. rc=-2
tardy badger
is this for all them or just specifically one?
uncut frigate
specifically this one
I have a third one I have yet to specifically solder header pins too
ill try the third one anyways and see if maybe its just a bad one im dealing with out of the three that came with
tardy badger
could be a hidden solder bridge. I'd try to burn the bootloader again and see if the issue persists
uncut frigate
yeah looks like burning it will be a bit of work. I don't have a second usb cable compatible to the other arduino to use at the same time. I could just solder the third one and I should be relatively find
*fine
as long as I check it programs correctly first
tardy badger
hmm okay
sick adder
I've just spent a good few hours trying to get a handle on "cadquery" but it's not going well. Perhaps it's just not the tool for me. https://cadquery.readthedocs.io/en/latest/examples.html
there's a lot of magic and while you're nominally writing Python it is very .. dense .. python
pearl vigil
Isnt that why one uses python? The black magic as I call it 😜
haughty smelt
Lesson of the day: remember D13 is hooked to the internal LED and cannot be used for input... oops
late fulcrum
You could, but it's a low-impedance input and will load down whatever's connected to it.
zealous ermine
my robotic arm is done!
the wiring isn't all that pretty, lots of hot glue holding things in place
but it works, and that's what counts 🙂
real falcon
nice
burnt tendon
What kind of micro-controller is driving it. An ARM?
zealous ermine
Lol good one!
quaint monolith
What is your favorite lab notebook?
crystal ore
I've used these a lot: https://www.amazon.com/National-53110-Notebook-Quadrille-Sheets/dp/B0016060LG Sturdy, but not as cheap as I'd prefer.
gleaming pier
Hey, because no one asked... I just discovered that a good way to get liquid polyurethane off your hands is to first liberally apply some kind of hand lotion, really rub it in good on the areas of your hands that have the poly, then use soap and water to rinse it all off. My theory is that uncured polyurethane is similar to lipids, as are hand lotions. So they mix bond together more strongly than to your skin, and also are receptive to soap.
(and no, I don't make a habit of getting it on my hands, but I'm still out of latex gloves)
late fulcrum
I'm fond of Boraxo soap for jobs like that, it's a really old product but still works well for getting dirt off of skin without too much unpleasantness.
zealous ermine
Boraxo is good stuff, besides if feeling like sand lol
my grandma has a big tube of it
i like it, and would recommend
gleaming pier
I should add, the polyurethane I was using was oil-based, as a protective finish for wood.
mental ocean
who pinged me
velvet pelican
You pinged you 🙂
hasty quarry
Imagine if Elon Musk was in Shark Tank for a few episodes
proud harbor
Listening to this while cooking. Getting my mind blown! https://youtu.be/uTxRF5ag27A
Okay... So I now need to collect the bits and pieces of my brain that are now scattered all over the kitchen. It's a huge ugly mess. Thanks for blowing it up, Bjarne!
ancient cave
I want to know if people are using raspberry pi for hobby and having fun or doing some serious stuff out of it
by serious i mean other than education and hobby purposes
i am new to raspberry pi , so only i am asking
proud harbor
Turns out that bits of brain matter is 1) extremely spicy and 2) utterly delicious!
proud harbor
I want to know if people are using raspberry pi for hobby and having fun or doing some serious stuff out of it
by serious i mean other than education and hobby purposes
i am new to raspberry pi , so only i am asking
@ancient cave
Tindie, Indiegogo, and Kickstarter are full of Raspberry Pi powered products. Not all of them are educational tools, if that's what you're getting at.
There's two ways you can approach the Pi (or any other piece of tech for that matter):
-
Start with a problem statement, and then look for the best tool for the job given your circumstances and goals. Maybe you don't even need a Pi; what you need might be a 555 timer, some resistors & capacitors, and a really big hammer.
-
Follow along to tutorials and lessons for the Raspberry Pi (there's a few different beginner's kits and a free getting started book). Everytime you learn something, try to see if you can apply what you learnt commercially.
ancient cave
@proud harbor Thanks for your valuable guidance
late fulcrum
Maybe the boot order got changed or the MBR is wrong?
grave crest
Or the hard drive cable became loose.
pearl vigil
Yeah, or in one computer I just switched it on one day and it had that issue, there was a PCB between the PCB and SSD and the connector weirdly failed and will never reliably go back on
sick adder
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/644176824955437086/758418970516258816/214821d1600887422-weirdnoaccudial3_600.png My friend who repairs watches encountered (maybe just on a forum?) this unusual watch dial. Can anyone explain the function of the extra markings? We're stumped.
real falcon
weird indeed
sick adder
I think it's some kind of diving watch. if you start to think the inner markings make sense, it's time to surface because it's oxygen deprivation.
late fulcrum
I was thinking index offsets for card counting
sick adder
hmm that gave me an idea but it doesn't seem to work out. I wondered if it was to help you figure out day-of-week from dates (there are short mnemonics and tricks if you want to learn how to do it) but I can't get the numbers to work out either. That'd explain why the numbers were 0 to 6 (=7 total numbers) but .. it doesn't work
@late fulcrum how would it help with card counting?
(I can't really imagine it's just to help with a parlor trick though)
late fulcrum
For basic card counting, it wouldn't be useful, but there's an "index" enhancement, which fine tunes your actions. For example, if you have a 12 against a dealer's 2, normally you'd "hit". However, if the true count is 3 or higher, you'd stand. If you have a 12 and the dealer has a 3, you'd hit, but using the index system, you'd stand if the true count is 1 or higher. And so on. Remembering all the combinations is tricky (and they're oddly distributed), so it occurred to me that you could use the digits on the watch face and count around to find the index.
Card counting is more than a parlor trick, people make (and lose) real money doing it in casinos.
late fulcrum
In a less serious vein, it could be used to figure out when you have a shralk in Fizzbin, depending on the day and time.
Or is it the kronk that depends on the time of day? I admit I'm a little fuzzy on the rules of Fizzbin. 🤪
sick adder
whoever says they aren't, is lying
late fulcrum
Truth.
velvet pelican
Maybe its the code to their lockbox
late fulcrum
Hmm, I doubt it's Zeller's Congruence, but that would make for a neat parlor trick.
lapis bluff
Well, these are the kind of number problems that intrigue me so I did some thinking. Those interior numbers as you say are mod 7. If you go around the dial in order all the differences are either 2 or 3. So, if there's a hand going around to point to the numbers, it's counting something that's got seven possible values and the hand would show the nearest mod 7 value. But seven isn't a special number in any of the card counting schemes. I know there are some specialist bits like this for EMS (I was in the Ambulance Service for a while), but that doesn't seem to track (and@real falcon: if your blood is 120% oxygen you and everyone around you is in for a bad day 😦 ). And after that, I'm starting to think @late fulcrum suggesting Fizzbin may be the best we're gonna do.
real falcon
120% as in 20% above normal which isnt good but not solid oxy heh
but interesting mod 7 indeed. hm
sick adder
oh yes, cracked it! My friend writes
with your idea I found a surprising partial match:
unsigned const char monthkey[] PROGMEM = { 0, 1, 4, 4, 0, 2, 5, 0, 3, 6, 1, 4, 6 };
this is part of the key/value method of calculating the day of week
you also divide by 4; maybe that's what the small numbers are for?
http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.calendar.html
1 4 4 0 2 5 0 3 6 1 4 6
2 5 4 0 2 5 0 3 6 1 4 6
If your date is in January or February of a leap year, subtract 1.
squint
the small markings indicating 1960 .. 2020 as 60 .. 120 seems a bit more far fetched but it's possible that scale is unrelated to the date algorithm
tardy badger
oh very nice
@stuck moth I'm looking through the IceStorm repo and I'm wondering if support for the ICE5LP1K/2K/4K is in there? I'm seeing for the UP variants. I did notice you've helped out on it too so maybe you might point me in the right direction 🙂
stuck moth
@tardy badger is it on the status here: http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/
stoic mesa
bot blocked my post 🙂
ok, repeating one line at a time: @sick adder it does seem to be correct solution except for the initial two digits 2 5
in leap years, the sequence should be 0 3 4 0 2 5 0 3 6 1 4 6
late fulcrum
Jeff's example showed 1 4 becoming 2 5, presumably because that version was computed the other way for January and February in leap years.
sick adder
HalloWing M0 arduino 0xDEAD
HalloWing M0 circuitpython 0xD1ED
``` 🤣https://www.sparkfun.com/products/16810 https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=8-1773454-3_SSRF_Data_Sheet&DocType=CS&DocLang=English Interesting construction. I've seen those kinds of plastic-dipped(?) modules before where isolation is desired, but never attached to a heatsink like that! Bolt on first, then dipped/coated? Is this what is called "conformal coating" or is that something else?
late fulcrum
I'm not sure what that's called, I assume you're right that it's assembled then dipped. It seems somewhere between "conformal coating" and "potted", presumably to protect against moisture ingress.
late fulcrum
I would guess the main factor for latency is waiting for the platter to rotate to position.
median trench
so latency would increase because there is more physical disk movement required?
late fulcrum
Average latency would still be half a rotation, if I'm understanding it right
Head positioning is another factor, but I don't think that would change a lot (presumably the recording density would be halved, so the seek distances would be slightly farther, but I don't think that would be an important difference).
late fulcrum
That's my guess, for what it's worth
median trench
thanks so much
velvet pelican
is there some sort of slowdown issue with the HDD?
if you got one thats getting full then it might be causing a bit of latency having to dig through all the data or the motor for it may not be as stron anymore causing a slowdown
i had one that had an issuie due to both... it was almost full and the motor was slowing down
8 years old
grave crest
Discord invites are blocked due to an uptick in spam.
stuck moth
¯_(ツ)_/¯
empty otter
hi
merry mason
Hi
zealous ermine
My friend told me he wants to build a pipe organ, and he sent me this
I think it looks pretty good. i'm not sure what note it will be, or if it even will sound good
but i like it
he wants it to be a 20 note organ
tardy badger
There’s some serious engineering and craft that goes into making organs 😃
burnt tendon
Are you sure he really wants to do it? He might just be a windbag.
zealous ermine
he wants to do it
he already bought the solenoid valves, so i feel like there isn't any turning back
tardy badger
Lol
short trellis
If anyone wants to watch a nice video about an EV (Electric Vehicle) group going around and doing things like at wineries, etc. then why not watch this 😀. It's available at 11am EST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6ehsd9jfks
haughty smelt
The happiness when your Adafruit delivery scheduled for tomorrow suddenly updates for arrival today
jovial swift
@velvet pelican Glad to see you made it through the fires! All good now?
velvet pelican
Yup everything was as it was when i left except it smells a little more like i am camping
jovial swift
whew, glad to hear
velvet pelican
We have been back for a couple weeks now and the fire was 6~ miles from the house
That one is completely out now since it rained 2” in a day last week
jovial swift
and the town, did it escape?
velvet pelican
The city pf estacada did i think they said in total it destroyed 50 houses out of town which isnt much considering how much acreage burned
Firefighter made saving houses their goal tho
velvet pelican
Yeah but not much ya can do but move out of the way kinda like with hurricanes and other things
Hows things in your world @jovial swift
jovial swift
only checking in while i'm awake - kidney stones grrrrr
velvet pelican
Oof no fun hope things get better and they pass quickly
velvet pelican
Nah it wassnt that thick it was pretty heavy for a couple days but then the wind blew almost all the smell out
Nothing like the smoke damage from the house fires... typically it takes a fair bit of heat to make it stay constant... its more like the smell of your clothes after being around a wet campfire and then after a week of being in fresh air the smell is almost nonexistent
jovial swift
well that's good, know what you mean about wet campfire smell 🙂
got cold enough to turn on the heat here for a few days, now I'm being asked to fire up the A/C again (no) 🙂
velvet pelican
Lol
jovial swift
BTW, there is a possibility of aurora for the Northern US tonight, never seen them as far south as NJ but ya never know...
velvet pelican
Take pics i wanna see it if it happens
That’s something on my bucket list but I’ll probably have to go to Alaska to see it
jovial swift
I've seen them in VT while camping, bright enough to be noticed while staring at the campfire
tardy badger
I remember in 1999 when there was a mass coronal ejection that caused the Aurora to go as far south as Wyoming and Utah 🙂
velvet pelican
Ive never seen em here
tardy badger
it was so bright we were able to drive with the headlights off
velvet pelican
Utah would had been far enough south for me to see but i dont know if it was seen in oregon or not
tardy badger
I was only a kid when I saw it, but it was super cool
I hope and also don't hope it happens again
hope because it's cool. don't hope because much of our modern electronics would be greatly affected by it 🙂
A MCE in 1997 knocked out power in canada, took down GPS for hours, among other things
jovial swift
it is an awesome sight however, pictures don't do it justice
tardy badger
so very true
jovial swift
i think the last big event was in the late 1800's, telegraph operators got shocked, it would be bad for our modern world
tardy badger
I couldn't image a CME happening nowadays
things were pretty sensitive even in 1997, and 2000, but the destruction in 2020 and beyond would be catastrophic
jovial swift
it would be better if it happened while it's warm, we'd all be camping for a while...
tardy badger
even with radiation hardened chips would be toast
we'd get a free meteor shower though as all the starlink satellites fell out of orbit all at once 🙂
tardy badger
lol that's classic
makes you seem so dark and scientific.
but in reality, modern day communications is messing up proper delivery 🙂
velvet pelican
Lol
Still sour about that lost package eh
I mean ya know they could just build chips to withstand that kind of magnetic field
tardy badger
Lol I finally got my packages Saturday out of the blue
velvet pelican
Noce
tawny sonnet
Huh. Wow. It hadn't occurred to me to put geomagnetic storms on the list of remaining disasters to expect for 2020, but now I have
velvet pelican
quick place all your electronics into a rubber box surrounded by 1/2" of steel
zealous ermine
that's one for the apocalypse bingo!
stoic mesa
and drop it to the bottom of the ocean, for extra security
sick adder
OBS 26.0 adds: Windows: Added Virtual Camera, allowing you to use the OBS output as a camera in other apps on your computer. Support for other operating systems will be added in future versions when they're ready [Jim]
I'll hold out for the linux support
stoic mesa
we are using it in the department to combine image from to cameras into one image for zoom teaching
fathom relic
Don't think CME would do much directly to chips, main ground based problem is induced currents in long power and communication wires, blowing transmission breakers, transformers etc. Could get power spikes that damage lots of connected equipment.
In space, low satellites do have risk of early deorbit as the atmosphere expands, even if their electronics survive. Military hardened sats probably survive if they have some warning. ISS astronauts shelter, big event might mean extended time they all have to stay in the one room. Don't know what the chances of them getting hit by a magnetic issue that would cause severe spacecraft damage are.
tardy badger
Depends on the density of the CME among many other variables. but an 1850s level event would surely be impossible to completely prepare for.
fathom relic
Main thing besides loss of satellites is loss of many wires a couple miles long or longer. Complete electrical grid blowout, along with most communication
They'd have to replace most of the electrical grid
tardy badger
Yeah
My university was trying to get DoE funding to study transmission system failure due to massive EMI flux
And also develop a system to avert failure
They didn’t get it, the more “prestigious” state school got the funding lol
fathom relic
If you read about the Soviet Project K nuclear tests, I don't know how much could be done. Localize power, with local replacement parts, and switch communications from wires to fiber?
burnt tendon
So, if you get reallly good at soldering transistors and start to write blog articles about it, does that mean you've become a SOT leader?
velvet pelican
@late fulcrum do you think I could make a mini pocket amp like the rolland mini but a tube amp version using a dewalt 20v battery as the power source ?
pearl vigil
"mini pocket"
late fulcrum
20 volts isn't enough plate voltage for much of an amp, but a boost converter could come up with something useful.
tardy badger
Man... this election season is going to be rough... that debate was. Wow. I had to stop watching because it was giving me a headache
velvet pelican
@late fulcrum what about if i use a 60v? I got a couple of those
late fulcrum
60V is enough plate voltage for a small amp, yes.
velvet pelican
Cool when i got time ill have to try and make one
Could make it 120 with 2 60v too
late fulcrum
There are tubes with 60V heaters (like the 60FX5), or you could a pair of 32V heater tubes like 32HQ7 in push-pull.
velvet pelican
What would drive a better sound?
late fulcrum
One advantage to oddball heater voltage tubes like that is they were popular in series-string TV use, so were made in huge numbers but there's little market for them these days, so they're inexpensive and easy to find.
velvet pelican
Also since its already dc would i still need coils?
late fulcrum
"Better sound" is in the ear of the beholder, but the 'FX5 is designed as an audio tube, so might sound better than the 'HQ7, which I think is a sweep tube. There are, of course, many other possibilities. You would still need an output transformer, to match the plate impedance of the tubes to the impedance of your speaker, unless you went for an exotic configuration like an OTL, but that would drain your battery in a few minutes (it would sound amazing in the process, however)
velvet pelican
Hmm i would want probably a balance in there where i can have some longevity of the battery like an hour or even half hour and then also a decent sound. Im not sure what speaker i would go with. I may try building my own just to try it and see what thats like or i may go with a 6x9 and run that
In some sort of a lightweight cabinet that i can make a belt clip for
late fulcrum
A 6x9 in a baffle box is a reasonable compromise between size, weight, efficiency, and fidelity.
velvet pelican
Im unsure what a baffle box is lol
late fulcrum
It's sort of a catchall for folded horn and "infinite baffle" speaker boxes stuffed with absorbent material. A ported enclosure can work well too, but takes a little more design.
velvet pelican
I dont mind designing things and building
Was looking at schematics the other day but i don’t remember how to read them as its been years since i looked at my circutry book
So i was thinking maybe a half oval setup for a small hip cabinet to help drive the sound but i am unsure of the quality of sound from that setup
I can probably just take a salad bowl and find out tho
dusty citrus
A friend, in 1979, took one or two car batteries and a video deck, out and into the streets .. using a hand truck.
Attached was a high quality video camera.
Today you just slip your smartphone out of your pocket.
dusty citrus
Yum.
stoic mesa
hand-soldered?
tardy badger
The cinnamon rolls?
stoic mesa
yes!
edgy prawn
[Hacktoberfest] We need Java developers for the MyLibreLab Free and Open Source software
Hey folks,
The month of October is ahead of us and there is a lot of excitement in the air among software developers. Everyone is rushing to get their hands on some nice FLOSS and get publicity, experience, and just pure joy of contribution! We have also a nice project that needs help.
More info in this Reddit post --> https://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/j28d43/hacktoberfest_we_need_java_developers_for_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
velvet pelican
Isnt java a dying language since oracle took over?
stuck moth
@velvet pelican I don't think that's a fair assertion. Java is widely used.
short bone
Android apps are mostly java
late fulcrum
Fortunately, there are open source Java environments available, so even if Oracle abandons it completely, it would (probably) live on
dusty citrus
Soo many companies are using Java, many of them because they're stuck in it. As a vendor we see about a quarter of all the companies we work with are on Java in some form or another for their web architecture.
sick adder
"Etremel Accrate" realtime clock
burnt tendon
Java is pretty much the Cobol of the nineties.
velvet pelican
Yeah I know java 8 is still used but when they pulled out reflection things started tapering off pretty bad as stuff that relied on that functionality couldn’t use newer versions
weary fiber
HECK
it's finally cold enough outside to open my windows and get a cool breeze
but instead I get a huge waft of skunk smell :/
real falcon
smokey here again
tardy badger
Quick, someone wake up Green Day
zealous ermine
lol
velvet pelican
Yup them skunks are around now... dog got sprayed 2 weeks ago and then monday night i woke up to that smell outside my window from a passing skunk
dusty citrus
Skunk smells good .. but only from a considerable distance.
late fulcrum
Sort of like the scent of stinkbugs, which is a molecule found in many foods, it's just when concentrated and on its own, it's objectionable.
dusty citrus
The skunks in downtown, at Woods Hole (oceanographic institute) will walk right over your feet, as you window-shop (says author, William Calvin).
search on 'skunk' in this text:
http://williamcalvin.com/bk4/bk4ch1.htm
burnt tendon
Encountering skunks while biking..... is fun.
scenic cove
I'm trying to remake a forever lost PSU, any ideas on what to do with the blue wire in the following "schematics"?
Rather not fry one of the few remaining units but also no one seem to know :)
pearl vigil
It measures the voltage drop across the wire if it's a current sense line, though I am confused by the voltage differences
late fulcrum
I just realized that the Hans plushie is product number 555. Hee-hee! 
Oops, it's not, there's just a link for it at adafruit.com/555. Still cool.
spice moss
i just watched bill nye code some code
stoic mesa
if you have a project which you want to share, where do you post it? obviously you can put code and technical docs in github, but if you want to describe it, where would you do it? hackster, hackaday, instructables, your personal blog?
i have previously used hackster, but i am not always happy with it
spice moss
have you checked twilio iot
stoic mesa
not really
are there many people using it? is there an active community around it?
spice moss
with signal2020 they showed some interesting stuff as they use the electric imp
with devkit for it
if you know electric imp bascially that community give some good also the twilio have nice community as well
with they learning app called twilio quest
late fulcrum
I thought of Electric Imp as a miniature WiFi node, and Twilio as an IVR framework, so I'm a little bewildered.
spice moss
yesterday bill nye did somelive coding on twilio as got number and it got billsong made by twilio people so when people call the number it play the song
umbral phoenix
I use Twilio in part as a phone spam filter
and for getting SMS from connected devices and server processes
spice moss
you could set Mail too and whatsapp
stoic mesa
I looked at twilio, but it seems to be a very different thing from what I am looking for. I was asking about a platform for people to share their electronics and other DIY projects, not related to any specific vendor or platform - like hackaday.io or hackster.io
ancient rivet
easy mode indeed. i just signed up (hacktoberfest) and got credit for some PRs from earlier. and didn't it used to be 5 PRs?
jovial swift
The moon and Mars are paired up nicely again tonight!
velvet pelican
I seen it @jovial swift
dusty citrus
Mars easy object a bit before sunrise. Jupiter & Saturn paired, not long after sunset.
Marge Visits Every Monday; Just Stays Until Noon.
late fulcrum
My very educated mother just served us nine pizza pies.
dusty citrus
Hehe
zealous ermine
I'm trying to write some software to turn my robotic arm into a radio telescope thing
i 3d printed an adapter for the antenna, and im trying to get it to track satellites
LOTS of trigonometry
if i can't get it to work, I'll make a dedicated setup
hasty quarry
Who's been to Five Guys?
I've never even seen one
But I found out there are a few about 30 minutes away, and I'm curious
How is it?
grave crest
They're a upper-tier fast food "burger joint". They fry everything in peanut oil, if that matters for allergy sufferers.
Personally, I stopped going to my local one due to inconsistent results and ever-increasing prices. They're a bit on the greasy side, and honestly no better or worse than any other of that type of place (Shake Shack, Smashburger, etc) which have better sides and better novelty breads/toppings.
hasty quarry
SMASHBURGER IS LEGENDARY
LKASJDLAHFU
I just went yesterday to try their Colorado Burger
Little disappointed, though, honestly, they advertised it as having all these peppers and being "not for the feint of heart"
So, I was expecting my spice tolerance to be challenged, which is always fun
But I didn't feel a thing
But, like, gotta give them credit, I totally fell for their advertisement tactics
Fell for the old "Bet you can't do it, bet you can't do it" trick
velvet pelican
The five guys here aint bad but i think it all depends on the staff and if they take their jobs seriously enough to make a quality burger
hasty quarry
What is it with these places and the red-white scheme
velvet pelican
Ive had burger king burgers that have tasted better than gourmet ones
hasty quarry
I know red entices hunger
velvet pelican
Just depends on the cooks/staff and ordering fresh ingredients
hasty quarry
And I guess white is a neutral color, so it's...fitting, and relaxing, I suppose
But, yeah, I agree
burnt tendon
Being married into a family of people who don't eat beef for religious reasons, I feel like the entire burger discourse isn't very good because it ignores both vada pav and mutton burgers.
zealous ermine
i'm late to the party, but i think 5 guys is good
tardy badger
5 guys is pretty good
Which religions don’t eat beef besides Jains and some Indian/South Asian cultures?
Being married into a family of people who don't eat beef for religious reasons, I feel like the entire burger discourse isn't very good because it ignores both vada pav and mutton burgers.
@burnt tendon did you marry into a Hindus family?
Just looked up vada pav and it looks delicious
burnt tendon
I don't see why folks make such a big deal about Impossible burgers or whatnot, Vada pav is both possible and tasty.
And it's like, well, out of respect for my spouse, I don't bring beef into the house so I cook lamb and lamb is amazing as well. Mutton better.
velvet pelican
Not a lamb fan as of yet myself
Never had it cooked and liked it but I always try it
tardy badger
We eat lamb fairly regularly in my house
burnt tendon
So, basically, I season my lamb like I'd season beef but I cook it very differently. I don't really get folks who serve lamb with mint, that just seems weird, so I usually do more like celery salt and pepper and stuff. But you generally want to cook lamb at a lower temperature, like I'll cook a lamb leg at 295 degrees F, because the fats have a totally different set of melting points and if you cook it too hot, it ends up dry and leathery.
dusty citrus
Wiggins Tavern in Northampton, MA served lamb with mint jelly, 25 years ago.
tardy badger
I mostly eat lamb in middle eastern food
So like Turkish, Lebanese, etc..
I love dolmas
Turkish dolmas are my favorite
pearl vigil
Does anyone have a ASK radio (That is used with radiohead library) and some random M4 arduino?
I think I added support but I cannot test it
late fulcrum
Hmm, I have an ASK radio that's on a Feather M0, let me see if I have any radios that aren't already connected to something (M4s I have)
pearl vigil
That would be awesome, I just ran a test and the timer code by iteself works so in theory it should work
late fulcrum
Erf, no joy 😦
pearl vigil
Darn, was hoping to make this my first hacktoberfest entry 😋 Maybe the guy in the github issue will test for me
pearl vigil
Also darn, hacktoberfest isnt any github repo, I totally misread this-
Pull requests can be made in any GitHub-hosted repositories/projects.
A bit confusing...
hasty quarry
I've been wondering
What if you had a material that could phase through itself
And you had a piece of matter inside
And you put an unstoppable force dedicated to inverting it, sort of like that ^^^^^
What would theoretically happen to the matter inside
That would make a black hole instantly, wouldn't it
velvet pelican
Making a black hole is not a good excuse to get out of homework.... im sorry teacher but the black hole ate my homework isnt gonna cut it @hasty quarry
hasty quarry
mmmmmmmmm
I don't think anything would ever cut anything...ever again
If I made a black hole, lol
hasty quarry
A black hole the size of an atom has the mass of mount everest, though, so it actually wouldn't be that bad
After all, it would still weigh the same as the original mass, so I could just....hold a black hole in my hand, right?
Though that would likely be millions of times smaller than an atom
Oh, god.....
I'm freaking out
velvet pelican
Lol
velvet pelican
What kind of monster have you created
hasty quarry
Myself
velvet pelican
No you didn’t create yourself lol
hasty quarry
Well, I did just have coffee
Which makes me 10,000 times more talkative
And curious
Also, headset? I don't recall
velvet pelican
So you hooked up the jumper cables
velvet pelican
Lol. So the headset thing was when you were talking about feedback on your laptop mic
hasty quarry
Ah
No, no, here's the thing
On my OTHER laptop, somehow, Discord doesn't pick up any sound from my speakers
velvet pelican
Logitech makes decent ones for cheaper than anyone else ive seen for the quality
hasty quarry
It must be filtering that out somehow
And no headset either
But this laptop does not
So that convinces me that it must be a software setting
Only on THIS computer can my friends hear my audio
velvet pelican
Could be speaker to mic direction differences too
hasty quarry
Hmmm
pearl vigil
Hey @late fulcrum how well do the ASK transmitters on the M0 work?
I was doing the math for my patch and the SAMD21 timer config seems a little inaccurate
late fulcrum
Hmm, for some reason I usually end up using the AVR ones but I think the M0 ones were fine. I'll admit I didn't know they used timers.
pearl vigil
Alright, seems they could benefit from a smaller prescaler but if it works fine I wont bring it up
late fulcrum
I suspect you're right, you generally want to use as many timer bits as fit.
stuck moth
@pearl vigil hacktoberfest went opt-in after backlash for low quality PRs
pearl vigil
Thats too bad, now I go to contribute to the opt ins but its just flooded with other ppl and its a too many chefs in the kitchen scenario with issues just made for completing the fest not actually contributing to open source projects that are productive...
sick adder
oops, I missed getting a flash chip for my qtpy while they were briefly in stock again. re subscribs to the in stock notification
opal trellis
Happy Monday, y'all!
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Confirm your voter registration and reach out to at least 5 friends and family members to confirm or start theirs. Let's make sure everyone we know is all set to vote in this election!
Check your status! Register here!
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idle iron
time to start a HalloWing project on M0... not yet sure what i wana do... probably just make environment sensor display stuff
sick adder
I completed my early voting ballot yesterday, need to decide which way to return it (mail in, drop off) makes the most sense for me
zealous ermine
i'm going to be taking some time off from servers. this has been sent to all servers i am im. there has been a family emergency and i am not in the right state to talk and do engineering work
stray wind
@zealous ermine Take care of yourself and your family. We'll be here when you return.
sick adder
https://blog.acolyer.org/2020/10/02/toward-an-api-for-the-real-numbers/ OK I'm quite impressed with android's calculator now. Lots of things I did not even know.
indeed it produces some amazing results, like cos(.1)^2/sin(.2)*tan(.1)-.5 yielding exactly zero as far as I cared to scroll the number (and perhaps forever)
(also that you can scroll any number to see more digits I didn't even know)
I did finally manage to give it something tricky enough it couldn't tell me the problem:
(sin⁻¹(cos⁻¹(tan⁻¹(tan(cos(sin(9))))))−9)^−1 produces "Timeout. Undefined?". It is division by zero, though, so that's fine
topaz juniper
late fulcrum
It's been discussed several times in the past. The problem is that the only M4 chips that would physically fit on the board are BGA, which involves a bunch of complicated and expensive technologies to assemble.
However, the ItsyBitsy M4 Express is pretty epic.
idle iron
new AMD CPUs in 30mins... rumors of 10-15%+ instructions per clock
late fulcrum
So about 1/8 as fast as an ARM CPU
idle iron
think its last 7nm they doing before going 5nm
i hear news arm is getting 64bit suport soon?
late fulcrum
There are already 64-bit ARM chips out there (the Pi 4 has one)
dusty citrus
MacOS on linux
tardy badger
lol
dusty citrus
.oO( Catalina converter )
dusty citrus
In a single day I saw Orion, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Vega, and Altair. And the Sun and Moon. ;) No optics .. just looking up at the sky.
sick adder
whee, got my qtpy m0 upgraded to haxpress 🙂
hasty quarry
I plan to build this
But I want to keep it very, very intact when I'm done with it
Could I realistically build a wooden project box with a glass cover on top, and put external switches outside
So I could interface with it, and view the lights on it, without possibly touching anything inside?
late fulcrum
Yes, that should be doable. You could also use Perma-Proto boards to make it sturdier and free up the breadboards.
pearl vigil
That 8-bit computer project is awesome
hasty quarry
@late fulcrum Right, right, let's find a perma board that's like 1 by 2 feet
That would be hilarious to see, honestly
Imagine that
burnt tendon
It would be quite a feet.
burnt tendon
What? My puns have you board?
hasty quarry
I'm out
late fulcrum
There are perfboards available in that size range
dusty citrus
hasty quarry
drowsy zephyr
guys i wanna ask
is it okay for me to sometimes feel so pathetic when looking at youtube engineers?
like, im an electrical engineer yet i feel like if i am tasked to build something, i can't do anything
dusty citrus
Do you have a degree?
drowsy zephyr
not yet, only 2 semesters left
dusty citrus
That's like a doctor who isn't a doctor yet feeling inadquate that they cannot do surgury entrusted to surgeons with 15 years surgical experience.
You'll know soon enough if your school made a wrong choice by awarding you your degree. ;)
dusty citrus
Do you drink coffee?
dusty citrus
Enough for the caffeine to make a difference?
drowsy zephyr
uhm, i dont really think it is?
are you saying my anxiety comes from the caffeine?
dusty citrus
It's just something to be aware of, one way or the other.
Drink more water; everyone can do that, I think, pretty much.
Take more walks. 10 minutes is plenty, for this purpose.
Move a muscle, change a thought.
We live in a unique time where we can spend a lot of time without moving our bodies much at all (as when sitting at a computer desk and using that computer).
drowsy zephyr
alright, thanks for the advice i guess?
but what about my problem of feeling inadequate?
dusty citrus
Feelings aren't facts. No feelings are 'wrong' unless you know you're plotting a horrible crime and feel great about it, lol.
dusty citrus
Sure. Practice makes you better at what you're already good at.
dusty citrus
Ah more or less. What do you mean by it?
polar bloom
@drowsy zephyr Maybe this perspective will help:
“Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”
― Ira Glass
hmm, that's interesting
but i guess this quote is for those who have made stuff rather than those who haven't
dusty citrus
@polar bloom Nice. ;)
polar bloom
I think it applies to any field where people attempt to create things, including engineering.
drowsy zephyr
i see
@dusty citrus btw when i say youtube engineers i was referring to people like mark rober or colinfurze, or hecc michael reeves
dusty citrus
@drowsy zephyr sometimes a person will play there is a hole in my bucket.
polar bloom
I also don't know which "YouTube engineers" you refer to, but a lot of the software ones (TechLead etc) are full of crap. The EE ones seem to be better because it's less easy to fake that. 😄
dusty citrus
As you gain experience you can pre-do more and more of your project, in your head, as first rehearsal.
drowsy zephyr
i see
well, i am attempting to do something for my final paper
to control 6 panels with 2 servos instead of just 1 panel
just trying to prove that we can move more panels in 2 axis rather than just the regular 2 actuators 1 panel that we usually have
dusty citrus
There is a hole in my bucket, dear Liza
Well then mend it, dear Willy
With what shall I mend it, dear Liza
.
.
He throws up objections each step of the way, and finally ends up with needing a bucket to complete the job.
But there's a hole in his bucket. ;)
dusty citrus
It's a children's song.
drowsy zephyr
hmm
dusty citrus
The obvious solution is to take all the steps needed to repair his bucket, including borrowing another good bucket.
drowsy zephyr
i still dont know how you guys don't know some of the notorious youtube engineers
like michael reeves for instance
or william osman (i think?)
dusty citrus
I don't watch much YouTube as it is pre-programmed to attack your personality, using a supercomputer, to weaken it. ;)
drowsy zephyr
pfft, that's an interesting reason to not watch youtube
dusty citrus
I think it was Sam Harris in a recent podcast who mentions that.
Social media is literally destroying the social fabric of society.
drowsy zephyr
i think everyone already knows that
dusty citrus
I like print media better.
drowsy zephyr
both consciously and sub consciously
dusty citrus
Visually moving media is troubling.
So, it's hard to remember the 'rules' once one visits a place like YouTube.
polar bloom
There's lots of great stuff on YouTube too, though. 🙂
dusty citrus
You could use like a kitchen timer to limit your time wasted there, and be really strict about that.
@polar bloom If there wasn't, their plan wouldn't work.
Their plan is to keep you there. Period.
Where else can you hear 30 covers of the same popular song, by all kinds of amateur musicians?
polar bloom
Better to watch good content on YouTube than to watch regular TV. 😄 But sure, it's smart to limit your time, YT can be very addictive.
dusty citrus
YT is algorithmically addictive.
polar bloom
No argument there.
dusty citrus
It's designed specifically for that one function. To ensnare.
polar bloom
Well, that view is a bit more cynical than I'm willing to be.
dusty citrus
There's a completely obvious rational explanation for the 'division' in society observed as of (very) recently.
One way or another, it's media-delivered information.
That's what's causing division in society.
polar bloom
It might be amplifying division, but I don't think it's the root cause.
dusty citrus
I think it's creating it where it does not exist.
polar bloom
It's not like everyone was getting along just fine before social media showed up.
dusty citrus
lol.
'you and I cannot possibly work together' is an attitude created that isn't per se 'real'.
polar bloom
I think the world would be worse off without YouTube, although an open video sharing platform that wasn't controlled by a tech giant (with a bad reputation) would be much better. 🙂
dusty citrus
If someone ever indexes into YouTube in a non-youtube-goalset manner, they'll just thwart it.
Discovery as an embedded video in some other context (on a web page) is better for the person making discovery.
They don't censor or modify my uploads so I assume they usually don't alter content.
Also: the platform may be much more impactful in a way that 'we' may not wish it to be, with regards to specific demographics.
You might be a lot 'safer' there than someone who lives a different life than you do. ;)
Specifically, YouTube destroys shared context.
You and I do not see the same YouTube. Ever. ;)
That is socially very damaging.
velvet pelican
They use their watch suggestions to steer you where they want
@drowsy zephyr do you enjoy electrical engineering?
velvet pelican
Then be content with the enjoyment of it... dont compare yourself to anyone else remember we are all unique and all have different abilities
And ability grows with time and practice... the patience is the hard part to master
tardy badger
Definitely second that @velvet pelican
Patience is hard. Also the feeling of not wanting parts to fail
It took me months to be okay with the fact that I might solder something together and it might not work or I’ll ruin components
And like @dusty citrus has mentioned in other channels... sometimes the magic doesn’t make sense until you measure it 🙂
velvet pelican
Failure is learning it doesn’t mean an end if you look at it the right way. Look at your own failures as a learning opportunity and learn something every time
tardy badger
Exactly
polar bloom
Also, someone in a video may not always show the mistakes that they made while doing the work for that video.
So it looks like their approach is perfect, but you're not necessarily seeing where they messed up.
dusty citrus
The videos where they didn't bother to edit the mistakes can be tedious, especially if the 'star' of the show isn't particularly well suited for the role of presenter.
narrow robin
snipping and then having a Jackie Chan style blooper reel would be perfect
fathom relic
Things that are advertising supported basically have to be made to keep users there and viewing more ads. This goes for youtube, facebook, even twitter, TV, print media etc. You and I also don't see the same facebook, and it's probably worse there. Anything you've ever clicked on is calculated in to show you more stuff you will click on. In politics it's particularly bad, everyone thinks their views and posts/reposts are pretty moderate, since they get shown more of the same.
Even basic google search is losing it's usefulness due to SEO, try to find a site you saw a few years ago, if you don't know the url you may never find it due to all the ad laden SEO optimized new stuff that comes up. Tried other search engines, doesn't help.
late fulcrum
Link doesn't work, perhaps Razer doesn't ahve Sneki Snek
umbral phoenix
@dusty citrus The first thing I do when I (grudgingly... ads, tracking, etc) watch a YT video is: turn off auto-play. Also, open every video in a new private tab, and never log in. All to reduce (can't eliminate) algorithmic personalization.
tardy badger
velvet pelican
There are no roos in Texas
tardy badger
No, I’m more or less talking about it just being insane by many measures
Lots of Bugs that can kill you, it’s hot, massive wild animals
dusty citrus
@umbral phoenix Yeah I've been lazy about the login thing because for a while I thought I wanted their suggestions on YT. ;)
Thanks for the YT hygiene reminder! ;) lol
I like the viewing history .. I just don't want them to inspect it or act on it in any way.
I don't care that they have the record of it. I care that they actively try to make decisions, based on my viewing history, that affect my experience there (what ads I see, what videos are suggested to me, &c.)
burnt tendon
I was at a conference party in Austin some years ago and there was a guy with a play-pen full of armadillos that people could look at and touch. A Texan coworker walks up to me and asks "So, what's California's state roadkill?"
sick adder
grave crest
Can we extract this protection protocol and apply it to other aspects of our lives?
junior lily
dm me if u wanna want a free logo for u, u will need to tell me the name u want on the logo and of what type
late fulcrum
@junior lily We try to avoid spamming the same message in multiple channels
dusty citrus
is there anyway on running exe programs on box86?
i installed box86 on my raspberry pi 3 and i want to test some games out but i dont know how
polar bloom
It looks like box86 is for Linux, not Windows.
polar bloom
No, it's a Linux x86 emulator, not a general purpose x86 emulator.
polar bloom
Sure, but they're Linux games. You asked for exe programs, which are for DOS or Windows.
late fulcrum
Possibly, but that's going to be a) pretty meta, b) possibly quite slow, and c) may not have full support, depending on what resources the programs you try to run need.
late fulcrum
Sure, worth a try. Like the time I ran Windows for Workgroups 3.11 under Wine under SunOS on a 22MHz SparcStation 1+. It worked, but it was slow
wintry quail
Hello, a maker group that I'm a part of in the Bay Area, in California has recently found a space to lease at a really affordable price. However, with COVID, it's hard to get new members who can contribute and sustain paying the lease. Does anyone know of any grant options or have any insight in how other maker spaces are doing to get by? Thanks!
late fulcrum
Many states have funding to support businesses during the pandemic, it's probably worth seeing if California does, and if so, what sort of businesses qualify.
wintry quail
Very true. Unfortunately, at least for the grants we looked at, many small businesses already applied and the funding has been now used up
drowsy zephyr
excuse me, does anyone here use coppelia sim or vrep?
hasty quarry
What's acid about coffee
Just the caffeine?
Huh, it seems caffeine itself isn't, but coffee has a compound named caffeic acid
(Caffeine is thought of as acidic because it causes reflux, but it's because it triggers more acid secretion)
idle iron
was watching videos on shenzhen china... such a cool place. i thought i was good soldering till i seen some factory workers solder about 30 pins in less then 2 seconds
stoic mesa
but then, afaik they do that 8 hours a day, 6 days a week - you wouldn't want that, right?
burnt tendon
I guess you could call them solders of the information revolution.
dull sparrow
I'd say quite litterally they are the backbone of the information age
tribal elbow
Hey everyone, I'm doing a survey of people who use collaborative workshops (Makserspaces, hackerspaces, etc..) and would like this Discord's responses if possible. I was wondering if and/or where I might post links to it here? I've posted on the subreddit, was just wondering if I Might be able to use the discord server as a platform
dusty citrus
is there a rapsberry pi kit where you can turn your pi into a portable PC? Im thinking of getting that one day and i want something like a a mini keyboard with a small screen
late fulcrum
There are several offerings such as the "Pi-Top". Another approach is to take something like an Atrix dock to supply the battery, keyboard, trackpad, and screen and make/find adapters to hook it to a Pi (this is the approach I ended up taking).
dusty citrus
are there handhelds?
late fulcrum
There are several DIY approaches, a web search will pull them up
dusty citrus
so there isnt anything on the market that can do it
late fulcrum
While I don't know of any handheld portable Pi systems on the market, that doesn't mean there aren't any.
pearl cape
@wintry quail All the maker spaces in the SF Bay Area are experiencing funding problems. Perhaps your group could join with one of the existing groups that already have spaces they are paying for - and contribute to keeping it viable. All makerspaces are looking for more members to share the load.
wintry quail
yeah, that sounds like a reasonable option. I'll let my group know, thanks!
dusty rivet
covert spire
Wish Ican say that's first time I seen such, but I been finding stuff like that since back in 90's when I got old enough to crawl under a hood, lol
sick adder
my friend has a weird idea about what should be possible on a lathe http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20201018_132348.jpg
(moves in the X axis are synched with the motion of the spindle C axis)
late fulcrum
Seems more like a multi-axis machine, but a reasonable way to make cams.
burnt tendon
All it takes is a cam-do attitude.
stoic mesa
wow. Reminds me of the drill bit to drill square holes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5AzbDJ7KYI
idle iron
modern music just sounds like dysphemia to me, example "watermelon sugar" i really hate repeating lyrics.... random rant😩
velvet pelican
And that is why I listen to swing jazz...
dusty citrus
In Watermelon Sugar
kindred grove
And that is why I listen to swing jazz...
@velvet pelican
Better to bepop 🎺
hasty quarry
Is everything made of the same fundamental fabric, just behaving differently
late fulcrum
Yes and no.
late fulcrum
It is. My favourite book on the subject is "Decoding the Universe", by Charles Seife.
hasty quarry
Information, eh
late fulcrum
However, even the most advanced theories of quantum mechanics, getting past quarks to string theory and beyond, don't explain everything and are still a long way from experimental confirmation. Recent discoveries of dark matter and dark energy complicate the picture further (another good book is "We Have No Idea", by Jorge Cham and Daniel Whiteson)
weak kraken
"science is hard"
crystal ore
That said, there are a lot of areas where you can totally predict things to twelve decimal places and all the experimental evidence lines up just fine. So the underlying "yes, but what IS gravity, really?" sorts of questions don't necessarily keep us from making progress.
late fulcrum
Quite true. Even Newton's laws, which don't take relativity into account, are very accurate and useful for many human activities.
real falcon
science will never be complete
jovial swift
OSIRISRex, tag complete!
lapis bluff
As to the earlier topic about explaining some of the oddities in current physics, I always liked the movie "What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?" .
sick adder
darn, it wasn't ET after all https://arxiv.org/pdf/2010.09761.pdf
Re-analysis of the 267-GHz ALMA observations of Venus
No statistically significant detection of phosphine
burnt tendon
Well, that's not phos-fine
crystal ore
Ouch. That paper is the academic astrophysics equivalent of a major smackdown...
sick adder
I have a friend who works on metal 3d printing. I'd love to be proven wrong, but it seems a technique that will be out of the reach of hobbyists for the foreseeable future.
real falcon
its diffult to do yeah
SLS with titanium powder is closest to hobby accessable
you have to evacate oxygen with nitrigen or whatever however.
titanium powder is reactive
late fulcrum
I was guessing something like PMC or investment casting would be the closest to hobby accessable.
sick adder
My friend works at Desktop Metal. As I understand it, their first technology is FDM printing with a feedstock that is similar to what is used in metal injection molding. They also have a second technology that is based on some kind of powder. In either case you need several finishing steps (thermal debinding and sintering).
burnt tendon
Yeaaaah, so the amount of red tape you have to go through to bring a SLM printer into a commercial/industrial space is considerable. Metal powder is both flammable and a respiratory hazard, lasers capable of melting metal are dangerous, and a giant bubble of asphyxiating gas is a safety hazard.
And, yah, Desktop Metal is interesting.
Then again, 3D printing by sending a file to get printed is totally within reach of hobyists.
tardy badger
Thank goodness Quibi is shutting down
Sad for the people losing their jobs but good for me not having to see any more Quibi ads
I probably should use an ad block or something
haughty smelt
No spoilers, but wow just got my Adabox, and just wow!
tardy badger
Ohhhh
grave crest
This adabox has to be one of the best value adaboxes I've seen -- it's right up there in line with Adabox 008 [crickit & cpx]
tardy badger
Hmm
grave crest
No joke -- it's a slam dunk in terms of value. You more than break even on the main 2x items alone -- they add up to ~$65. Then there's the other accessories & goodies.
grave crest
Nope.
tardy badger
Bummer, I need to order a few Stemma boards for testing i2c on my CP Sapling
grave crest
@tardy badger Well, technically it supports Stemma QT.
grave crest
Who doesn't? 😛
copper marlin
Has anyone here sold a device they constructed? I was considering selling some homemade 3D printed objects with an Arduino board inside that does various things. Still, it appears selling most items electronic that change the original device (if I connected additional boards with different sensors) requires FCC testing of the unit as a whole. Not sure how makers who sell homemade electronics could afford such testing (or they don't and never experience an issue)
proven olive
@copper marlin Are you in the US?
tardy badger
There are a few of us that do 🙂
copper marlin
I am in the US.
proven olive
Cool! You can basically qualify it as.... "Component"? or something along those lines, if it's not "In a case" or something like that.
copper marlin
@tardy badger , you sell a home made device that was certified? Do you mind informing me of the price and process?
proven olive
If it's a component, it doesn't have to be FCC certified
tardy badger
But FCC testing is rigorous. Most of the time you can use pre-certified components as long as you don’t modify it’s certified function
proven olive
Yep!
tardy badger
So adding additional antenna can void certification
Unless you use an antenna that’s certified for that use
copper marlin
That was part of the reason for my question on the live stream today. I have an RFID reader/writer that is not FCC certified (from what I see). In addition I assumed adding that device (or anything else external) to the board would void certification.
Oh, that's interesting, so connecting an FCC certified nano board to an RFID reader that is also certified would not void said certification?
tardy badger
You can usually get around certification requirements too by specifically saying something is for evaluation purposes only
It would then pass the weight of commercial deployment to the end user
But for personal/hobby use it’s usually not an issue
I say usually, but I’m not a lawyer so it’s probably good to get legal advice from someone who specifically works in this domain if you plan to sell this on a larger scale
I’ve never personally certified anything but I’ve looked at the process.
copper marlin
I have been selling custom Holocrons on ETSY that as of right now are nothing more then some LEDs and a battery. I was planning to up my game with a Nano, RFID reader, and other functionality. That is...until I stumbled onto an FCC page by chance.
But yeah, I will have to research what "evaluation purposes" is and how I would be able to classify as such
stoic mesa
you can ask in #crowd-supply channel
CS are crowdfunding platform mostly catering to open-source community, so they would know
tardy badger
That too
copper marlin
Oh, thank you. I was skimming for a proper channel and did not find it at first glance.