@dusty citrus well you gotta ping multiple times and fast
#general-chat
dusty citrus
jagged siren
One individual attacker’s system can’t DDOS. The first D is for distributed, so there have to be a ton of participating attacking systems. Whether or not the owners of those systems are aware of their participation is a separate issue.
stark nimbus
Do you have a meme center?
red atlas
ICMP floods are rarely used, they are generally given a low priority and even with a distributed attack, relatively expensive resource wise. TCP syn floods or a UDP attack are going to saturate a target far more easily, and filtering might result in an outage anyway.
Granted, a typical residential connection it is at least viable to exhaust bandwidth, and most consumer routers are pretty terrible, so its at least possible to. Still, easy to filter if you know what you're doing.
dusty citrus
Is it okay to imagine a ball as a polygon with an infinite number of edges?
Is a “round” surface just a surface with enough edges to be considered as such?
@late fulcrum I’m back with another “infinity” thought experiment! Hahahaha
burnt tendon
I mean, pretty much any way you are modelling the world is going to eventually reduce a ball into a polygon with an infinite number of edges.
Where "edge" becomes complicated when you consider that which works at a molecular level.
🤷
So, I got one of those $10 logic analyzer USB cables and wired it up to my 65c02 board and the CPU is clearly not as broken as I was assuming.
which seems to indicate that single-stepping through with a button isn't nearly as handy as the afforementioned $10 board and sigrok
late fulcrum
I should try it, hmmm. Single stepping the 1802 worked pretty well but I haven't tried the 65C02 yet.
burnt tendon
So, there's a few theories.
My 65c02 was purchased from Jameco some years ago. It's a Rockwell with a fairly recent date code. So maybe they got a batch of remarked 6502's? People on the 6502 forum were calling BS on Rockwell with recent date codes.
Or the clock is too dirty.
Or the Rockwell isn't quite as static because apparently there's some caveats
Like, date code is 0642
dusty citrus
amazing
burnt tendon
....and I just discovered that the place I was getting my 65c02's from accidentally sent it to my billing address instead of the specified shipping address because it's delivered and I don't have it. 😡
late fulcrum
I used to have that problem when I lived on a street without mail delivery.
Where did you get your 65C02s? I got mine from Mouser.
burnt tendon
Unicorn Electronics was listed on the 6502 forum's "where to buy" page.
late fulcrum
I checked the manufacturer's website https://www.westerndesigncenter.com/wdc/ and saw Mouser listed as a distributor.
burnt tendon
Yah, I'm assuming they are old-stock, not new ones.
They also had weird stuff like a MC68008 in stock.
late fulcrum
Cool, that would be fun to breadboard.
Unicorn has a few other oddballs like a 74HC133 and 74HC181 as well. I hadn't seen those before.
burnt tendon
These are your father's 74HC133's. An elegant IC, for a more civilized age.
dusty citrus
It's possible to get a powermac G5 into a gaming machine?
I mean
A model is needed where it has a PCI e
dusty citrus
@late fulcrum what GPU is there that has PCI X?
jagged siren
Games will be limited to whatever you can get on old PPC versions of MacOS, or possibly Linux PPC.
finite monolith
sure, but only for old Mac games
dusty citrus
I wonder if it is possible to port windows to powerPC?
finite monolith
possible, yes, for Microsoft.
finite monolith
that doesn't help with any of the games you'd want
finite monolith
You can port Diablo 1 now that somebody has re-engineered it and posted it to github
dusty citrus
Nice
I was thinking of counter strike 1.6
That was my favorite game
When I was a child
finite monolith
a g5 might have enough oomph to run cs1.6 in emulation. Did that even use a GPU?
finite monolith
oh, there is an official osx release of old school CS. That should run fine
dusty citrus
Is there minecraft on PowerPc aswell?
finite monolith
original Minecraft is Java so you can probably get it to run fine.
red atlas
Anyone feel the last quake, few minutes ago in SoCal?
drifting oasis
@red atlas yes. Longer than yesterday
sick adder
Debian 10 "Buster" has been released!
dusty citrus
main microcontroller in a vectorscope that i picked up yesterday
with many motorola chips on the same board
copper hemlock
An 8051? scratches his head
Nice to see they used Rubycon caps though!
copper hemlock
looks
Goodness, you're right!! That early RoHS stuff is terrible, and they still haven't got the solder right.
dusty citrus
Intel created microcontrollers?
sleek urchin
Yes, they did
They weren't first ot market, but they did haev a lineup of microcontrollers for the longest time
8051 is still super prevalent, just because it's completely unencumbered by licensing
Texas Instruments got to market with a microcontroller first (about the same time Intel was making the first microprocessor)
and more recently, intel made the edison and what not... and have since killed them
late fulcrum
Yeah, their attempt cram x86 into an ecosystem where it wasn't a good fit was doomed from the get-go. It would have been a great way for Intel to easily leverage the internal RISC CPU they had built where they wouldn't be stuck with backward compatibility issues, but after getting burned once on switching architectures, Intel dug in their heels and decided x86 was the hill they were going to die on.
late fulcrum
@dusty citrus I found a possibly-useful document if you want to re-create an Atari 2600: the documentation on the custom TIA chip that does the graphics and sound. I made it into a PDF and uploaded it to my server. http://www.vitriol.com/pdf/TIA_1A_400dpi.pdf
copper hemlock
x86 in microcontrollers is just a step too far.
The complexities of debugging Big Endian archetecture in a small project kept larger buyers away; while the higher price & complexity of development kept away many makers.
burnt tendon
Well, also you pretty much need to have most of a PC in there for things to make sense.
dusty citrus
@late fulcrum funny how it says confidential
late fulcrum
I suppose it was, back in 1982 when the 2600 was still being made (amazingly, it was produced until 1992).
fickle slate
I wish there was a "retro" graphics chip still in production
late fulcrum
I imagine there is, depending on what you're looking for in particular. There are some "on-screen display" chips out there, VGA generators, and the like.
copper hemlock
You can always make your own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7rce6IQDWs
fickle slate
That's cool
I know there's like microvga and some other cpld/fpga based VGA generators
copper hemlock
I just started watching it myself. He's doing it old school with counter ICs, fixed clocks, etc.
fickle slate
novavga and microvga are the two
I like the novavga but wish the code was opensource
copper hemlock
That would be nice...
fickle slate
with novavga iirc it recieves pixels over serial in the form {X, Y, RGB}
I emailed the developers and asked if they could provide an alternative firmare that would make pixel writes sequential, which would allow me to write to the buffer 3 times as fast but they never responded 🤷
late fulcrum
Looks like 4Dlabs doesn't make their PICASO-A chip any more, which looks like just what you want.
fickle slate
thats why I started looking into making a handheld retro device (LCDs are much easier to work with), but idk how to do the LiPo charging stuff
and either way i have other projects
finite monolith
hmm, with FPGAs becoming cheaper will it be easier to keep these sort of retro-chips alive? How long after someone makes a mass-market FPGA dev board until somebody recreates the Video Toaster, etc?
late fulcrum
You wanted to do a handheld device with VGA? There are little displays that take baseband video, but I haven't seen many VGA ones in that form factor. Most of the ones I've seen take LVDS or have their own controllers.
fickle slate
Nahh I meant i either wanted to do a stationary computer with VGA out, or a handheld with LCD output
LCD as in like those monochrome graphing calc 98*64 / nokia 84*48 LCDs
late fulcrum
6502 is still alive thanks to Western Design, and 1802 is still alive thanks to Renesas (and the space industry, which still uses these intrinsically radiation hardened chips)
Whereas I'm eyeing putting RS-170 B&W video on a little 40mm CRT originally made as a video camera viewfinder.
fickle slate
what does WD do with 6502s?
late fulcrum
They still make them, in several varieties, including the 65816 with 16-bit support and even a microcontroller version.
fickle slate
zilog makes microcontroller version ez80s
late fulcrum
Here's one of the microcontroller boards, basically a one-chip design https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Western-Design-Center-WDC/W65C265QBX?qs=sGAEpiMZZMve4%2FbfQkoj%252BKREh%2FbFBt5CQiQL7ErerFc%3D
It has a whopping 576 bytes of RAM: about a quarter of what an ordinary Arduino offers.
fickle slate
I dont think that link works
late fulcrum
Whoops, I truncated too much, link should work now
late fulcrum
They have a 65C02 one, but it's $189 https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Western-Design-Center-WDC/W65C02SXB?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtjsFrk8KnjP90xjKNHX9Y25ZpMKsJcwdE%3D
granite portal
wow this is pretty great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7rce6IQDWs
owait someone posted that already 😅
dusty citrus
yes
polar wraith
So. hi. Back (I hope). "Extra life, long story, sorry I shot you." Medical problems, then work issues, then ex threw daughter out of the house (in PA) so she drove across the country and is living with me (in WA). Things have been... chaotic. She's having wisdom teeth ripped out of her skull in a few hours, so I'll probably have some time to catch. up. As Simone says, "hiyyyyyy!"
echo agate
Welcome back! Hope her wisdom teeth don't end up too rough.
polar wraith
Thanks @echo agate ! She has a crazy level of doctor-phobia, so they're just going to knock her out completely. I hope she recovers quickly. Freezer stocked with popsicles and pudding. 😃
echo agate
The treats make unpleasant procedures that much better 😃
sweet mango
Hope she has a full recovery.
When I got my wisdom teeth out, I think it was last August, I choose to be knocked out. I never knew I fell asleep, I was in one room, and the next moment I was in another. Definitely the weirdest thing I have ever experienced.
polar wraith
Thank you @sweet mango . That's been my experience with surgery, too.
tame saddle
@polar wraith 👋 welcome back! Sorry to hear about the trevails. But such is life.
polar wraith
@tame saddle This is true. I hope things settle down a bit! I'll be afk for about four hours in a bit. Off to take daughter to surgery!
late fulcrum
I kind of wish I was when they did my surgery last week.
tawny sonnet
I've heard anaesthesia described as "like time travel", but I distinctly remember falling asleep in the OR and waking up after
so I guess it depends
and probably also depends on the specific mix of drugs they use
proven olive
I've had one wisdom tooth pulled out. Had a conversation with the dentist while he was pulling it. It was amazing since he would say something, stop what he was doing to let me respond, then continue. Was only a short period, thankfully the tooth offered no resistance, but still.
burnt tendon
I tend to describe it as "Like a bad Star Trek episode" but "like time travel" is perhaps less nerdy sounding
vestal phoenix
The fun part starts when you try to take a drink afterwards or try to eat and you realize there is still no feeling or motor control.
weary fiber
I had 6 tooth extractions in one go not too long ago, and they had me barely conscious via an IV sedative, while monitoring my breathing
It was pretty painless, I’d definitely recommend it
weary fiber
Those things always look so cringeworthy to see
Just imagining the process of putting those in makes my jaw hurt
late fulcrum
I slept through it.
vestal phoenix
@late fulcrum did they tap that with standard 1/4-20 thread, would leave you with a lot of options to mount stuff.
burnt tendon
I knew dentists were the screwy sort.
tawny sonnet
late fulcrum
There is apparently an internal thread for mounting stuff, and a hex opening to install it. And, of course, there's a whole set of (expensive) tools to do all these things, and apparently none of these are standardized, the different brands are incompatible and each requires their own set of the tools.
burnt tendon
So, thread carefully, I guess.
sullen cairn
How did the Adafruit Discord get so many users?
late fulcrum
By being awesome?
late fulcrum
I'm guessing here, but AdaFruit has a lot of useful material out there on their websites, forum, youtube, etc. and a lot of satisfied customers and users. I'm guessing people taking advantage of all of these resources find links to the Discord.
jagged siren
Wanted a bit more real-time help with a PyPortal than was feasible on forums. Then never left.
late fulcrum
Same here. I see the same sort of thing a lot, someone comes in looking for help, finds a friendly and interesting atmosphere, and sticks around, often also helping out others.
proven olive
@sullen cairn It was mostly a natural thing. Adafruit is a well-known name to begin with, so adding a link to the discord in the places people already go works just fine. As @late fulcrum said, the people that use Adafruit stuff and also Discord just sort of ended up here.
Also worth noting, the online users and total number of users is HUGE, but the amount of people that are regularly active is a fairly low percentage
tawny sonnet
I dropped by for an electronics sanity check and stayed because people here are awesome and helpful. I'm not sure how much I've been able to give back yet, but eventually I will know enough to share
polar wraith
@tawny sonnet In my experience, everyone has valuable information to share. If you are just learning, clicking that "feedback and corrections" link in the learning system guides will help us make things better for other less experienced makers. On top of that, "fresh eyes" often contribute to new ideas and innovations. For example, I know almost nothing about evolutionary biology, but when I was a visiting researcher at the Santa Fe Institute I was able to contribute to that research just by asking questions , which encouraged people to look at the problems differently.
tawny sonnet
Oh, I have a lot of very specialized niche knowledge. I just don't know if it's relevant to this community
polar wraith
Sometimes maybe? 😉 I sure felt that way when I was starting out. The community is extremely inclusive,, particularly of people learning. That's kind of the whole point, so we're glad you're here!
burnt tendon
I think you arrived not long after I did, @tawny sonnet and I'm like "YAY, WE HAVE COSPLAY PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH LEDS HERE"
tawny sonnet
👍
to be fair, none of my completed cosplays have involved LEDs... YET
also, I can sew anything ,dye anything, and make shoes. so hmu if you want edumacation in those areas
also I know too much about raising chickens
burnt tendon
I guess that joke really laid an egg.
echo agate
Stop this fowl nonsense!
covert spire
I usually specialise in make up thant making as far as cosplay aspects go.
Tho, local maker space has textiles club
dusty citrus
Apparently PowerPC is actually RISC
proven geode
@dusty citrus Interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PowerPC-based_game_consoles
copper hemlock
Yes it is.
dusty citrus
@quasi plover Hey since you blocked me n all, I found out we have a mutual server here
The network scripts don't work either, things have changed
basically the whole project doesn't really work because references to various things have updated and EngineerMan hasn't bothered to fix them
virbr0 isn't a thing anymore, it's lxcbr0
just little things like that
as for the read only thing, as far as I can tell, it already is, and there's no control over that? It's in the way that the api submits execution
@dusty citrus Simply change your passwords for one or more accounts
next time, set 2FA up
could you please ping @quasi plover for me?
Sure
@quasi plover
torpid belfry
If they've blocked you, maybe they don't want to interact with you?
quasi plover
Don't go blowing up other peoples servers just to try and communicate. You were banned for a reason.
Sorry Adafruit & Admins.
late fulcrum
Most modern processor architectures (Sparc, ARM, etc.) are RISC, however RISC is sort of a misnomer covering a group of vaguely-related features (fixed instruction width, single-cycle execution, load-and-store operation, lots of registers). Looking at it that way, the ancient 1802 CPU is fairly RISC-like (its 16 16-bit registers and their flexibility was exceptional for the day).
red atlas
RISC is just a classification for architectures, they don't all use the same instruction set.
RISC vs CISC is like phonemic vs logographic writing, but you can have wildly differing varieties within the broader ckassifications.
dusty citrus
I thought that RISC code would work for any RISC CPU that's old or new
late fulcrum
No, RISC is just a style of CPU implementation, it's not a language or machine code or anything.
late fulcrum
Assembler code for one RISC CPU won't work on another RISC CPU (for example, you can't run Sparc assembly code on an ARM).
late fulcrum
Pretty much the same thing HoneyDrops said.
dusty citrus
I was thinking of the Z80 computer that would run basic and would have expandable flash ram like cards that slide into slots
late fulcrum
That's totally doable.
late fulcrum
Heh, that's how I'm planning on doing it in one of my projects.
red atlas
ARM itself is an entire family of CPU arch that are not mutually compatible.
late fulcrum
Also true.
dusty citrus
@late fulcrum I have also thought of getting it to drive 2 VGA monitors
late fulcrum
VGA is fairly easy, but in my opinion, the more important decision is what sort of screens you want (frame buffer, DMA, graphics engine, etc.) instead of how they happen to connect to their displays.
dusty citrus
@late fulcrum I could use a Microcontroller to do the display driving
late fulcrum
Yeah, that's one approach but you still have to decide how you want to tell the microcontroller (or whatever) what you want to put on the screen.
late fulcrum
That's one useful decision: text-only displays are generally run different from graphics capable ones.
You can use a DMA approach where the data in your Z80's RAM is fetched and painted on the screen: to update the screen, the Z80 just writes to memory.
late fulcrum
There's the frame buffer approach where the screen has its own memory and the Z80 sends data to it (perhaps with IO instructions) to set up the display.
Both of these approaches would have the Z80 doing all the calculations to draw lines, circles, text, or whatever.
The third major option is a "smart" display where you tell it what to do "draw a line in this color of this thickness from this location to that location".
dusty citrus
How about using a video chip?
late fulcrum
There are lots of video chips, for all three approaches, or the roll your own approach with a microcontroller, hardware, or programmable logic.
In my opinion (again) the first decision is how you want the video interface(s) to operate.
dusty citrus
@late fulcrum I'm actually better off creating something that is simple for me to work with
After all
I'm kinda a beginner in creating retro computers
The only thing I was able to create was a Z80 tester
That's it
late fulcrum
My 1802 box does it the easy way with DMA (three chips used for the video interface), but it produces RS-170 video, not VGA.
late fulcrum
RS-170 is composite video, but it's black and white, not color composite video.
I'm kind of fond of black and white composite video as it's not very demanding to produce and gives the possibility of graphics and text.
Color composite video is more exacting (timing and phase requirements), so it might actually make more sense to go to VGA if you want more resolution and color. Or you could split the difference and do CGA, but I wouldn't even know where to find a CGA monitor these days (composite and VGA monitors are pretty common).
You may remember the picture I posted using an old karaoke machine as a black and white video monitor with my little 1802 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/334905778857050125/585818173337632769/vip2k-video.jpg
dusty citrus
@late fulcrum I guess I can stick with black and white video
It will be a starting point
late fulcrum
It's a great way to get started for a beginner, even a fairly sloppy signal will generally work (the old Sinclair ZX81 produced a signal with several pieces missing and it worked with the TVs of its day, but people have had to add circuitry to construct the complete signal to use one with a modern LCD monitor)
late fulcrum
I'm guessing you're learning a lot already and will continue to do so.
red atlas
Modern is mostly just so many levels of complexity that you are forced to work with abstractions.
late fulcrum
Heh, that just illustrates how much you've already learned. For most people, even old computers are complicated and mysterious. They wouldn't consider putting some chips on a breadboard and trying to get a CPU to run, even some people who'd breadboarded an Arduino.
Whereas if I mentioned there used to be an assembly mnemonic LPC for "load program counter", that would copy a value into the program counter register, causing the execution to continue from a new address, you'd understand why that instruction is more commonly known now as "jump".
Interestingly, an ARM CPU uses register 15 as the program counter, whereas the ancient 1802 would let you use any of its registers as a program counter, giving you the ability to be very creative with jumps and subroutines by switching around which register was the program counter instead of just having one program counter.
As an aside to that aside, the 16 16-bit registers took a lot of silicon to implement in those days, so the original 1801 version of the CPU was two chips: basically one for the registers and one for the logic. The 1802 was just a single-chip implementation of the 1801.
burnt tendon
Holy crap. Someone made an IC at home: http://sam.zeloof.xyz/category/semiconductor/
late fulcrum
That is impressive.
dusty citrus
its Morris Chang's birthday today
swift hatch
red atlas
no HDMI out is a bit of a disappointment, but I also suspect that might be rectified with modifications
I do wonder how long it will take to crack it 😈
copper hemlock
Jerri Elsworth almost went all out, she made transistors at home for sure.
cold jolt
By what the "Apu" in the new switch tells me, It still is able to output video to HDMI but i could be disabled via software, It would be possible to add a HDMI port or USB C port on the Switch Lite and also put a modified version of the OS with the ability to output to that HDMI port
Or Nintendo did nothing at all to the OS and it will work anyways
sick adder
I had a dream that there was a board that I could put a feather on, and it adapted it to arduino pinout. this was just a dream, right?
dusty citrus
that could be possible
weary fiber
This is pretty neat
I work for a company that grosses 300+ M a year, and I just convinced the CEO to buy Streamdecks & deploy AHK code for every single office employee to automate a BUNCH of processes
dusty citrus
could someone explain what this is?
sick adder
@dusty citrus https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360048076492-I-just-got-an-actual-feature-to-change-my-status-Different-to-editing-your-playing-status- "Its a new feature thats being tested for beta purposes!"
proven geode
@weary fiber Congrats! How many people are currently using Streamdecks at your company?
Are you doing a pilot test before rolling out to everybody?
fair summit
@sick adder feather->arduino https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/VHkoUs2Z
weary fiber
We’re doing some field tests at the moment!
Deciding on whether to use Logitech G600s or Streamdecks
dusty citrus
Is it possible to create a CPU architecture that is mainstream for consumers to use?
I want to get it to be compatible with z86 and RISC
weary fiber
I took apart a failed server drive
“Failed drive” somehow seems inadequate
It’s internally self-destructed
The entire inside was filled with a black dust
finite monolith
wow, looks like it ground almost all the way through the platter
red atlas
15k drive?
weary fiber
10K 300GB SAS drive
red atlas
I wish I could have heard that.
torpid belfry
That reminds me of the full-height Seagate SCSI 2GB that let go one night when we were moving disks around in our Auspex NS5500. Gave the command to park the heads on the drive, walked over, and as I pulled it out it rang out like a gunshot.
Tore the drive apart afterwards, the heads had crashed, two of the platters had cracked
short light
I'm working on a SAMD51 port of Adafruit SeeSaw but it's taking me a long time to get it working. If anyone wants to help out or has a pathway I should follow to get it up and running quicker, get in touch! 😃
I've gotten quite far, but keep hitting compiler issues because the D51 is very different to the D21, D09, etc. Registers and Functions got moved around quite a bit.
My backup plan would be writing it all in an Arduino Sketch and then uploading it to the board.
late fulcrum
An interesting product for us "build our own CPU" types: https://www.elektor.com/arith-matic-s1-au-mk1-learning-kit
To answer Mr. NI's question above, it is possible to create a CPU architecture for consumers to use. Whether they'll actually use it depends on complicated market forces. As for "compatible with RISC and Z86", you're pretty much stuck with choosing an ISA and sticking with it. There are a few exceptions like the 65816 which boots up emulating a 6502 but a special instruction allows it to shift to its 16-bit mode. Also, I don't think there's any such animal as Z86. There was the original Intel 8008 line which became the X86 chips used today. It isn't RISC (although current offerings implement it with an internal RISC CPU running microcode to emulate the ISA), and I consider that instruction set hopelessly obsolete. Unfortunately, there are few alternatives. The old ARM design is still doing well, the old PowerPC design is relegated to niche server use, and Alpha, Sparc, and MIPS are effectively dead. The only newer one I know of is RISC-V, but it has issues already and doesn't seem to be gaining any traction.
dusty citrus
i got the $18 bundle
dusty citrus
@late fulcrum I mean I want to make it compatible with other architectures
Not MIPS or Sparc
But I can try to get the CPU architecture to emulate x86
late fulcrum
That should be doable (like I said, that's how "X86" CPUs work today). It's not really compatibility but emulation.
Like CHIP-8, a lower level than the Java virtual machine bytecode interpreter or the Pascal "P-machine".
burnt tendon
Part of the magic of the 6502 was that they were ruthless about optimizing for no microcode and a low transistor count at the cost of everything else. Although, to be fair, if you were doing not-C-or-similar-languages in the early 80s without multitasking, most of the 6502 weirdness wasn't really that bad.
Whereas most of the other CPUs got pretty weird pretty fast.
late fulcrum
Quite true. I'm fond of the early ARM and AVR designs, as they're friendly for C programmers, and I liked the ARM's register rich architecture and orthogonal instruction set (the "set flags" bit seems really clever to me).
I had learned on the 6800 myself, so moving to the 6502 was fairly easy as they're not terribly different from each other.
dusty citrus
Now its gonna be difficult to develop a compatible CPU
late fulcrum
Don't worry about compatibility (that's a huge can of worms that's much more trouble than it's worth), just pick a nice base architecture that supports what you need and let emulation deal with running code for other environments.
dusty citrus
I guess I can start out with RISC V
late fulcrum
That's an ambitious one to start out with, but it's powerful enough to emulate a bunch of other stuff in real time.
dusty citrus
In the mean time I will just play with a z80
Maybe create a simple z80 games system
dusty citrus
Or maybe play around with the 6502
late fulcrum
There's a huge amount of good information out there on both the Z80 and 6502. I have a real fondness for the 6502's clean model, and enjoy its "zero page" model (a big appeal of RISC for me is lots of registers, and one way to think of the "zero page" addresses as as a big sit of pseudo registers). It's also a pretty easy chip to breadboard, and you don't have to deal with special I/O pins or modes.
I am (slowly) working on porting Atari BASIC to a more generic 6502 architecture, as it's a really nice BASIC.
burnt tendon
I mean, the big thing is that a Z80 can do slightly more with no RAM connected. 😄
Having a few more registers.
late fulcrum
Yeah, the 6502 is fairly register poor without any RAM.
(hence my fondness for the weird old 1802 with its plethora of wide registers and the more modern ARM)
If you haven't already seen it, http://6502.org/ has a ton of useful 6502 resources
late fulcrum
Yeah, just the X and Y registers. As I said above, the "page zero" instructions sort-of give you 256 more general purpose registers. At least the 6800 had two accumulators.
Contrast the 1802 with its D accumulator and T temporary registers, its I, P, and X meta-registers, and the aforementioned 16 16-bit general purpose registers.
While it's a little hard to nail down the salient differences between RISC and CISC, one of the important ones to me is the "load and store" behavior. The 6502 and its ilk have a bunch of instruction to do things like "Add the contents of the memory address at (X plus the offset of the index register) to the accumulator". It's designed to more-or-less operate directly on memory. This is easy to code for, but not particularly fast, as you end up doing lots of bus transactions to get anything done.
Where as more modern load-and-store CPUs don't have any instructions like that. They have instructions to copy registers to and from memory, and then all the manipulation happens to quantities in registers. This is slightly more awkward to program, but much faster in practice, as most operations complete in a single clock without having to go out to memory. It also only works well if you have a bunch of registers to play with.
All that said, the 6502 was designed to be cheap, and it was MUCH cheaper than the other available chips ($25 vs hundreds of dollars), and that cheapness was achieved by skimping on things that took a lot of silicon, like on-chip registers.
dusty citrus
I feel like it's easier to program for the z80 because it has general purpose registers
late fulcrum
Yeah, I like registers.
tawny sonnet
It occurs to me that by the time I finish Pandoria, I will probably be qualified to add "basic electronics for cosplay" to my con panel roster. I already do one on sewing and one on dyeing at every con I go to
Teach All The Things!
proven juniper
Did someone see the post by @frosty sand ?
Sounds like she could be in trouble.
red atlas
I am concerned too
It implies enough she trusted with shares thought it was worth assembling her password to post.
proven juniper
I know she worked for Adafruit. Maybe @viscid folio or someone there has a backchannel who could confirm is something happened.
proven juniper
I'm already getting ready for a visit/protest to the embassy in Costa Rica. Please remember all to take action in social networks, but also afk.
crisp cedar
Hello
dusty citrus
Sup mate
crisp cedar
I'm lookong for a project to do with a pi zero
Something that uses a small lcd screen
But not another pigrrl project
Any ideas?
dusty citrus
You could connect a LCD display
late fulcrum
I guess you could make a streaming portable television, or a point to point version so you could run a VCR (or whatever) in one room and wirelessly watch it on a portable screen.
smoky junco
Magic 8 ball... screen and accelerometer.... shake it and it plays back an appropariately Magic 8 ball message
Add in some fun knock detection to it so it can be used to prank people too 😃
dusty citrus
So the 8 bit computer that I was thinking about I want it to generate video but I dont want the characters to be scrolling all the time
Like
I want it to draw the screen
And put down characters also
copper hemlock
@dusty citrus Wow, much crusty!
dusty citrus
Wait what?
copper hemlock
That crusty old Win 9X laptop. 😂
vital harness
dusty citrus
@copper hemlock ah yes I thought you were talking about my ideas
late fulcrum
I'm not sure what you mean by "draw the screen and put down the characters". Do you mean a plain bitmapped screen where the CPU paints the characters the same way it paints all the other graphics?
copper hemlock
@dusty citrus Dear Lord no!!!
I only talk that way about politician's ideas. ;-P
dusty citrus
@late fulcrum yep
late fulcrum
That's easiest, you don't need a character generator that way
frosty sand
@proven juniper I'm out thanks
proven juniper
More than happy to hear. Hope you are more than ok. Anything you need, we are here.
dusty citrus
tested a dvd player, got better photos of the chips this time
late fulcrum
Hmm, just tore apart one that I think also had Sunplus chips in it.
An SPHE8104 in my case (karaoke player, so it had CG+G support).
dusty citrus
keeps the size of the board down as most of the processing is within the chip
dusty citrus
Just put In a ARM cpu and that's it
dusty citrus
pretty much, the board is the size of a Raspberry Pi 3
mint garnet
Long necked canine at your service!
late fulcrum
The initial technology of laserdisc players begat CD, then DVD, then Blu-Ray. In the CD days, Sony and Philips/Magnavox held all the good patents, so other makers had to come up with different ways of doing things like keep the beam in focus. One technique used three beams, with the assumption that if the outer beams were equally out of focus, the inner beam must be in focus. This didn't work very well, but the marketing was top-notch, and for a brief time, people would buy the "three-beam tracking!" ones, thinking they were somehow better than the single-beam units which were much better performing.
sleek urchin
With the 50th anniversary approaching fast, listen in real time as the mission unfolds (Via records, photos, and transciprts) https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/
finite monolith
that is amazing
polar wraith
Ooooh, astronomy is on-topic for offtopic! Messier 88, shot with a 1/2 meter telescope on the volcano on Tenerife.
Photo credit: Me (Phil Moyer) and Slooh.
late fulcrum
Better than my pic of Mizar!
grave crest
@late fulcrum That's an amazing pic 😃 Same for you too @polar wraith!
@late fulcrum That looks like a hand-blown glass ornament or an earring....
polar wraith
Thanks @grave crest !!!
late fulcrum
Heh, what you're seeing in my pictures is mostly camera vibration 😃
polar wraith
@late fulcrum You think that one's bad, heres a screenshot from the 1/2 meter telescope. I suspect a gear in the mount, but the engineer is up working on it.
late fulcrum
Double exposure!
polar wraith
The whole sequence had a quinto-exposure: red; green; blue; H-alpha; and luminance.
late fulcrum
Yow. All sorts of opportunities for color coding things, as well as bizarre problems.
torpid belfry
Since this is off-topic, anyone here in IT and familiar with load balancing solutions? I'm putting together a lab and need to mimic the L4/L7 load balancing we have in production. Ideally we'd run a virtual machine instance of the same F5 LTM devices we have in production, but we don't seem to have those available, so I'm looking for something I can easily put in place. Anything that doesn't require separate license $$ and that can run on a VM (both Hyper-V and ESX are available as hosts). If it can run on native Windows server, I can do that -- open to Linux, *BSD, etc. as well.
jagged siren
The guys I work with have F5 everywhere important. But haproxy might be a decent stand-in.
torpid belfry
Yeah, I was just looking into Nginx, but it looks like I need the commercial version to do active health checks
one of the objectives is to use the lab to train our ops team in common procedures like marking servers down in the load balancer, so having the ability to do active health checks is a must
haproxy will be my next search, I guess 😃
late fulcrum
Maybe look into what Google Compute Platform uses?
torpid belfry
had another IT buddy recommend haproxy, and it seems to have the features I need, so I think I'll be studying up on that
red atlas
I'll echo haproxy, can do both http-aware load balancing with TLS termination and raw tcp.
You can also do acl rules for controlling behavior, various balancing options, failover, sticky sessions, and a lot more.
torpid belfry
Turns out Kemp still has their "free virtual Loadmaster appliance" offer -- full VLM, throttled to 20Mbps, perpetual license -- perfect for a lab. I recommended we go with that, as I have experience with them and it will be easier to teach other team members to use/configure.
jagged siren
Spent the last hour or so trying to remember how I had an extra few bags of discrete components, followed by remembering I got a freebie from Sparkfun some months/years ago, followed by identifying parts and sorting into dividers. No idea when I’ll use half of it.
late fulcrum
Labels are a good idea.
jagged siren
Bags inside dividers are also labeled one way or the other. No way I'm going to ID the printed numbers on the pF and nF capacitors without magnification assistance.
late fulcrum
Good idea. After I read tiny part numbers with a magnifier (or microscope), I try to remember to label them with something I can easily read unaided.
sleek urchin
Eagle is in orbital descent, 12 minutes until the powered descent https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/ (50 years ago)
finite monolith
thanks for the heads up
slim ember
I wonder, what made everyone want to do circuitry stuff?
polar wraith
@slim ember I wanted to build my own weather station with Raspberry Pis. One thing led to another!
slim ember
@polar wraith Wow a weather station? Holy crap that sounds awesome! Did it work well? For me I wanted to make 3d printed props have some functionality, and to be able to make my own gadgets, my first thing was lighting up an infity gauntlet
polar wraith
@slim ember It did turn out well. All kinds of sensors and cameras, hooked it up to Weather Underground to upload data and pics, wind speed and direction, and a rain gague.
Gauge
The Infinity Gauntlet sounds cool!
slim ember
That sounds awesome! Do you have any pictures of it? Here's some of my gauntlet
finite monolith
"On the porch" + 50 years: https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/
polar wraith
NICE!!!
I need to do some cleaning up on it. It's tied to a 2x4 hanging off the balcony at the moment. A terrible bodge.
slim ember
@polar wraith I can't wait to see it, it sounds really awesome!
sweet mango
polar wraith
@slim ember I'll write a guide and put it on the learning system, and then throw the code up on the Adafruit GitHub repo.
(for the earthquake. I guess I can do the same for the weather station. 😃 )
slim ember
Still man working with weather and earthquake stuff is really cool
At the moment im watching videos on fixing faulty switches and other devices, they are entertaining and also educational
polar wraith
Oooh, be careful! You'll get sucked in for hours. 😃
slim ember
Oh mate, its already been 3
Though i can more say its been about 1.5 cause i watch videos in x2 speed
polar wraith
My favorite YouTube creators are: Big Clive, Julian Illet, @frosty sand , and Andreas Spiess.
slim ember
Ill write these down to watch, im just watching a guy named My Mate VINCE
polar wraith
I haven't seen his. I'll have to check it out.
slim ember
Yeah he just likes to buy and try to fix faulty things and teach the problem
slim ember
Ok i was trying to say i just realized the Naomi you suggested is that youtuber one whos name seems to be blacklisted because of the word before cyborg
polar wraith
She actually had a very bad interaction with Vice, and they got her Patreon cancelled, etc. It was ugly (and is well-documented elsewhere.) She's a great person, though, and fun to talk to. I love her Shenzhen electronics market videos. Come to think of it, I have one of her t-shirts from there lying about somewhere....
slim ember
Wait Vice as in the news page place
polar wraith
Yes
Basically, they published personally identifying information, in violation of their agreement, and put her in danger. This is why I don't consume any Vice content anymore.
slim ember
BOT PLEASE JUST STOP
Ok, so it looks like the bot isnt calibrated to aussie speech, which means i have to avoid talking like i usually talk, even though i never swear
polar wraith
If the bot needs tweaked, send me what you're trying to say in a PM and I'll ask the mods to update it. 😃
slim ember
What vice did is a not fair move, and the bot seems to take any thing i say that is seen even slightly as talking in a non appropriate way as bad, and ill pm you what i was trying to say
frosty sand
@polar wraith thanks. My recent addiction has been a mousetrap testing channel, completely broke a bit of maker's block I was having. There's just so many overly complicated technical solutions and so many super simple elegant solutions you can apply almost any skillset to the problem- https://www.youtube.com/user/historichunter
slim ember
Interesting, i wasnt expecting a youtube channel about mouse traps to exist
frosty sand
Yeah could not imagine being interested- until I saw this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMLY5SjnDvU it's not so much I want to make them, it's there's so much that can be 3D printed, or lasercut, would you use an optical sensor, strain gauge, proximity? It really gets your brain working when you are stuck in a rut.
slim ember
I see what you mean, it basically makes you brain storm which can help with your own projects sometimes. I was disassembling my printer that my nan kind of broke yesterday (she already got a better replacement which is the best) and i was amazed to see how similar yet different it was to my 3d printer, hell ive noticed such similar tech even in an air con that i pulled apart at my gramps, though that disassemble was less fun cause it was full of poisonous spiders and lizard skeletons
frosty sand
yep
slim ember
2 weeks till my birthday yes!
edgy apex
I turned a pi zero w into a VPN that will work on any wifi network I connect it to. Using reverse tunneling that I like so much that bypasses firewall and NAT
It gets 5-10 down and 2-4 up, I'm running it on port 443 so it can't be blocked very easily
This reverse tunneling can be used with any tcp service
https://github.com/aploium/shootback
fickle slate
no
jagged siren
Some left-handed people who learned from teachers who didn't know how to teach left-handed writing.
burnt tendon
try it once and you'll be "hooked"?
slim ember
Been making a wedding invitation card for my Brother!
covert spire
I know a few right handed people that do that also. It's more commonly known for lefties tho
fiery lichen
Have been working on an open source way to make metal parts from (reusable) 3d prints. Not selling anything (just aiming to be helpful) - here's a link:
rotund echo
I have a switch-mode power supply that does not work anymore. Gives dead 0V on the output. I took it apart and the only thing that is obviously wrong are bulged electrolytics on low-voltage side. Input fuse is good. Is there a chance that replacing them will fix it? Or is it something else? Power supply was operating 24/7 and never blew up or anything. It just quietly stopped working.
late fulcrum
Worth a try. Check that the diode is okay (sometimes failed capacitors will damage the diode, and a failed diode will destroy new capacitors).
I've seen lost-PLA casting of metal parts done, but this is more like 3D printing mold forms (mold forms were traditionally machined out of wood). A good idea.
rotund echo
I got it working! Aside from these caps there was another one next to a zener diode that dried out completely. Replaced the diode as well and now it gives corretc voltage on the output.
late fulcrum
That other capacitor may have been related to the voltage regulation feedback.
coarse otter
lol, anyone have any ideas for a web app to deploy to a space server? https://deployto.space/
jagged siren
God bless their marketing people.
coarse otter
right? hahaha
jagged siren
I mean, you deploy whatever Javascript site it is you have, it ends up on a Pi that gets launched into orbit, and you never see it again due to bandwidth costs.
late fulcrum
I'm not a fan of Javascript, so launching it into space seems like a good idea to me.
tame saddle
They redeemed themselves from the "yolo" with the closing "P. Sherman, Wallaby Way, Sydney AU"....
coarse otter
the 'yolo' answer was my favorite
I need to come up with a dumb thing to have launched.
I haven't figured it out yet
I think it'd be funny to have a geo-cities like website with a guest book. Let the aliens sign it from space 😛
slim ember
9 days till I turn 19! Hopefully I'll finally have some money to get tools for projects I wanna do!
slim ember
Welp there is chili power in my satchel, brilliant
late fulcrum
If it's really good chili, you might get enough power out of it to run a phone, maybe even a laptop 😜
slim ember
Ha if only. Gotta make sure the lid for it is more sealed next time, i used it for uni lunch, makes cheap stuff better
late fulcrum
Oh powder not power. Now I understand!
slim ember
Oh pff, nah mate i eat pure chili power
I AM SPICE LORD
Anyway im hopin to bed now, night y'all!
burnt tendon
Mmm. Chili.
So, morning freakshow.
I'm getting some soldering done before work and I'm sorting through the parts. My wife walks into the geekroom and says "Hub?" I look up.
She's like "Awww, I wanted to see if your eyes looked big"
So I push the opti-visor down and apparently my eyes look big if I have the visor down
dusty citrus
Apparently there is a RiSC V arduino board
late fulcrum
Yup
idle iron
@late fulcrum i was looking at FPGA i found one i like https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/lattice-semiconductor-corporation/LCMXO3LF-6900C-S-EVN/220-2069-ND/5395903
i think that is the $15.77 FPGA chip... 6864 logic cells, 245760 bits of RAM, with 206 I/O
$1 more per FPGA chip would have been exactly what i want the LCMXO3LF-9400C-6BG256C
that would have been 9400 logic cells, 442368 bits of RAM
proven geode
@burnt tendon
“Venti Americano with an add shot, please.”
dusty citrus
Oh god
woeful forge
I know adafruit are not responsible for the Discord app. Having said that I need to vent. The app on Windows 10 is absolutely awful. I hate it but am I missing something and using it wrong? How am I supposed to scroll up and down the active windows? Touchpad scroll doesn't work. none of the normal keys work apart from <PgUp> <PgDn>. The slider handles are almost invisible and hard to manipulate. WTH?
fickle slate
I just use discord in chrome
sly arch
tame saddle
scroll wheel works in Win10 for me with the app. but i do agree with the slider handles; they could be bigger..
woeful forge
I don't use a separate mouse with my laptop. But then all modern laptops have touchpad scroll so why don't Discord enable it. I probably should ask Discord support but the app is so bad in so many ways - mostly layout and navigation. I think I should just give up on it. Apart from I would miss the adafruit community.
late fulcrum
I think it uses Electron?
tame saddle
i will note that scrolling with the touchpad works on my laptop. but, its running Ubuntu. and yes, i believe discord is Electron.
proven geode
Nice avatar; is that a Teletype Model 33, @woeful forge?
I'd reach out to https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us
Also, I'd check on another Win10 PC. Maybe there's some touchpad customization in the control panel that's making things weird on your machine.
late fulcrum
ASR33 or KSR33?
tawny sonnet
I read teleprinter as teleporter and had such a 
moment
torpid belfry
On my Surface Pro 3, mouse scroll wheel works, touchpad scroll does not.
File a bug with Discord
I am running Windows 10 build 1903 for reference
proven geode
Soldering headers on the FeatherWing OLED. https://adafru.it/2900
woeful forge
@proven geode my avatar image is just a random one I found online. But it is very much like the one I used as a kid in 1975. First"computer" I used regularly, dial-up to USAF mainframe.
Sorry I am just replying now. I went to bed it was late in BST(GMT+1).
dusty citrus
Dial up to a mainframe?
That's...
Really
Cool
If only I was born in the 1980s..
woeful forge
Yeah I guess I was the original WarGames (the 1983 film) kid but a decade previous.
woeful forge
Mouse issue is frustrating but in my opinion the Discord interface is just horrible. It is more tolerable on my phone so I will just use that. I have removed app from laptop and desktop PC.
General note to all developers. Don't try to make a program that runs on a PC look and work like a 'device' app. It doesn't work. Just my opinion.
slim ember
Animating is fun! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA_nk-0dqtU
copper hemlock
This is the coolest charger: https://youtu.be/BqVhcvU4mIo
copper hemlock
MXM gpu -- Nvidia Quadro from a laptop
dreamy solstice
how powerful is it?
dusty citrus
I'm in a support server for a Java API I use
How do I deal with people like this?
@dusty citrus I feel your pain.
Just reading it made me want to flip my table.
I think there's no way to deal with them. Just try to find a smarter circle to be part of.
No, I'm part of that circle. He came to the chat for help
And tried showing us up all of a sudden
jagged siren
I'm not sure which of the two I'm supposed to be annoyed at.
dusty citrus
The bottom one
Scarsz said "Clearly this is javascript", and DManstrator followed up
proven olive
@dusty citrus I'll be honest, the best way to deal with those people, in places where you're not in charge, is to... not. If you're in a position of authority, you make it clear that being belligerent isn't a good way to get help, and point to whatever relevant rules are around. In here, I'd point them to the #code-of-conduct
polar wraith
Hey all. If you've already built the PyPortal, with case, and you want to put the 8 ohm mini oval speaker (like the one in the PyGamer AdaBox), you won't get your fingers in the back of the PyPortal case. If you don't feel like taking the case apart - as I didn't - curved-tip ESD tweezers will pop the JST connector right in there. 😉
proven olive
@polar wraith They fit JST right?
polar wraith
@proven olive Oh MASSIVE groan!!!
torpid belfry
@proven olive is wired! But you gotta be careful making puns like that, you don't want to get u-pin people's faces...
copper hemlock
@dreamy solstice About as powerful as Intel's integrated graphics on a 3 year old processor.
copper hemlock
I am not sure... lemme look.
I messed up, it's an MXM port.
It's a first generation MXM, so 75W max, this card, more likely ~30W.
copper hemlock
😆 Maybe 1gflop, I think it has 256MB of GRAM.
dreamy solstice
nice
the 7570 has 600gflops
got it from ebay for $14
to use in my media/tv streamer computer build
copper hemlock
I'm just kinda wild guessing, it's a 10 year old card & it was never for gaming, just spreadsheets & driving multiple displays. I'd be surprised if there were H.264 acceleration, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 1gflop. CUDA? Not even.
dreamy solstice
oof
reminds me of my first laptop
it had a radeon hd 63xx something mobile
- a 1.3ghz dual core amd cpu
it was garbage
couldnt even run portal 1 that well
fastest gpu I've ever owned was a gt 730 2gb
which I stuck in my workstation
slowest is whatever the heck is in my 2004 toshiba laptop
wouldnt be surprised if that thing would be measurable in the kiloflops scale
like no seriously,
copper hemlock
This machine has a GTX 1060 in it right now.
dreamy solstice
nice
I want a 1660..
but my dad insists I just get a new computer entirely
because my desktop was made in 2010
atleast he's agreed to save up to get me a 2012 macbook pro logic board, so I can replace my aging logic board(2011)
the 2012 logic board works in the 2011 macbook pro
the non retina 2012 logic board
in this case, 3rd gen flagship mobile core i7 + gt 650m
atleast my desktop runs my mc server with 115 mods pretty well..
copper hemlock
VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GP106M [GeForce GTX 1060 Mobile] (rev a1)
Don't get anything newer. They're not worth it anymore.
goes digging in lm_sensors
dreamy solstice
hmm
copper hemlock
I'm trying to set up my system to be able to control it's own lighting without using the original lame programs.
dreamy solstice
atleast you have lighting
my desktop is a poweredge t310
it has a lit up power button
and that's about it
thing is so darn big though that it doubles as a table so atleast I have that
the xeon x3450 is a good cpu too
20gflops+2.6ghz+8threads(4cores)
the core i9 9900k can do 100gflops
copper hemlock
It has lighting & it was set to something in windows.
The problem is, I don't run Windows on it anymore, & I want to be able to turn it off so I can sleep better.
dreamy solstice
yeah, my desktop not having much of any lights on it at all makes it where I sleep better
copper hemlock
Yeah, 2 reasons I turn off the USB mechanical keyboard at night: switches off the light, & keeps the furrball from surfing the web on naughty kitty sites.
dreamy solstice
lol
proven olive
I got a USB hub with power switches for that very reason. Well, not the cat, but the light.
copper hemlock
Same here.
dreamy solstice
my media computer build is fast enough to do light gaming
nice
I built it to play movies
now it plays minecraft too
late fulcrum
Most of the learn pages have the JSON to add the AdaFruit options
dusty citrus
adafruit version of arduino with motor shiel and wifi board
late fulcrum
It's the same version of Arduino but you add in the modules you want
zenith gull
slim ember
Guess who went through a graphic design course in 2017, and was recently asked to design wedding invites to be printed, AND FORGOT TO ADD BLOODY BLEED SPACE
late fulcrum
Ouch
dusty citrus
how many instructions does RISC V have?
vernal gale
Around 50
Depends which sets you're using though
47 in the base set with a possible reduction to 38
Then there are other sets called extensions
https://content.riscv.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/riscv-spec-v2.2.pdf The manual is a good read
dusty citrus
I really want to play around with RISC V and try to program something for it
dusty citrus
I could play around with the arduino formfactor by getting it to maybe to simple instructions or write simple programs for it
burnt tendon
I mean, you can always start by setting up a RISC-V emulator and writing code against that, which admittedly doesn't have the same appeal.
dusty citrus
I do want the CPU to also interface with hardware
dusty citrus
Do I have to be in the same wifi connection as my raspberry pi to send it UDP data?
Will it work anywhere as long as I have the IP?
burnt tendon
So, UDP is a "best effort" protocol.
It works "best" if you are on the exact same network segment, but as long as you have IP connectivity it'll work.
(e.g. DNS and other protocols use UDP)
burnt tendon
That's a complicated one.
Because of how the IP addresses work, you don't have the full address space used completely yet we're running out of IPv4 addresses.
Thus, most ISPs are going to put you behind NAT.
dusty citrus
Why aren't we using IPv6?
burnt tendon
Mostly inertia. Also, most hardware didn't have a really really good IPv6 stack until the standard was a decade old and many of the assumptions held by the IPv6 standard weren't actually true.
e.g. the IPv6 standard makes a lot of effort to have fixed-length headers instead of IPv4 variable length headers, but hardware got really good at peeling apart variable length headers so it's not really much of an advantage.
So, they were all like "OMG! THE SKY IS FALLING WE NEED IPv6" in like the 90s. And they "fixed" the IPv4 problem for a decade by rolling out CIDR instead.
So, back to the answer you want.
Your ISP may or may not put you behind NAT. You can always go to each machine in question and type "What's my IP" into Google and see what Google thinks your IP address is and compare that to what your computer thinks the IP address is.
NAT can be implemented in such a way that you have a NAT'd IPv4 address but a real IPv6 address per device, but not everybody implements that
The big difference is that if one side of the connection is NAT'd (say, from your Pi to a Linux box in the cloud somewhere) then TCP/IP is bidirectional but UDP is one-directional.
dusty citrus
Hm
burnt tendon
So, there's a whole dark area called "NAT Traversal"
dusty citrus
I have this API I want to use
And I'm in a help server for it
And they say to use UDP
But, I'm just, confused
I understand UDP and all, but aren't APIs just HTTP requests?
Where does UDP come in there?
burnt tendon
Oh, an API doesn't necessarily have to be HTTP requests over TCP/IP.
It's just that's the way most of 'em work.
There's a bunch of overhead in TCP/IP that provides you the illusion of a bidirectional link with no packets missing and everything in order.
umbral phoenix
UDP or TCP runs over I[nternet] P[rotocol]. Higher-level protocols like HTTP use TCP. Other protocols, like traditional port 53 DNS, and NTP, use UDP. You can see how these things relate here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_protocol_suite
late fulcrum
TCP is a "reliable" protocol, where the sender gets an acknowledgement back and can verify that the packet was received, and re-send it if not. UDP just sends packets and doesn't concern itself with whether they've been received. Which you use depends on whether you care if every single packet gets delivered. For some cases (like NTP), it's no big deal if a packet doesn't get through, so they use UDP. For other protocols (like HTTP), a lot packet could cause problems, so they use TCP.
finite monolith
IPv6 has enough address bits, and hex, to spell stuff so it's much more fun
torpid belfry
The biggest difference I've found between UDP and TCP in 20+ years of real world networking support is that TCP has more overhead to set up a connection ("socket") between two machines, but once you have it set up, the network stack and intermediate devices will do their best to get data back and forth, including notice/handle missing and out-of-order packets. UDP is a lot simpler at the network level, but you have to do more work inside your application to account for any missing packets. So stuff like HTTP and SMTP use TCP, but stuff like DNS or NTP or a lot of gaming protocols use UDP because if you miss one packet, the easiest and best fix is just to have another one sent and "catch up" in the app.
slim ember
I, for the past couple of days, have been suffering from the most simplest mistakes one could make when doing a design. So im doing my Brother's wedding invitations, i finish the text, they go get it printed, problem 1, i didnt make any bleed room and the text is cut off, i fix, try again, bleed area wasnt big enough
And at this point i was already mad with myself so this time i make it perfect for printing, and its fine, no more cutting off, and then i realize in the invitation is meant to say Cake afterwards at chapel
IT SAYS CAKE AFTERWARS
THERE IS GOING TO BE A BATTLE OF SWORDS AND MAGIC AT HIS WEDDING
And they already got em all printed, we are now just going to leave it because for one its funny and 2 we doubt anyone will pick up on it, and if they do, then we will just have to go to battle
late fulcrum
I was working for a company a few years back and they asked me to send a fax (yeah, in the 21st century, huh). I grabbed a cover sheet off the stack and noticed it had a word misspelled. The largest word on the cover sheet, in 2-inch type. No one had ever noticed and they had been using those cover sheets for quite a few years. It's amazing what people don't notice (I have a proofreading background, I tend to notice things like that).
slim ember
The reason i couldnt see the typo was because Photoshop doesnt have auto correct and also i had to use a really strong cursive font
late fulcrum
Ah, that means it's even less likely anyone else will notice.
slim ember
And like i said if they do, its war
sleek viper
Finally got my Word docx Generator working the way I wanted.
rare bolt
anyone in the sf bay area - i'll be vjing at this show friday. come by and check out my set up including my feather m0 controlled motorized lazy susan!
sick adder
my two laptops have the "fn" and "ctrl" keys swapped, and it can't be modified #firstworldproblems
dreamy solstice
take the fn key and ctrl keycaps
and swap them
to make things even more confusing
dreamy solstice
become omnipotent
and rewrite reality itself
to alter the very particles that comprise your keyboard
to alter it's atomic structure
to swap the keys
@sick adder drink this
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/534118853953847326/599416487874134062/forever_awake.png
if you survive it, you become god
and then you can fix your keyboard
idle iron
that is for those long space flights. not even real berries, it is just a bunch of microbes like spirulina but they add flavor so you're able to down it without gagging
dreamy solstice
but
infinite calories
infinite energy
if you drink it you get infinite power
and become god
late fulcrum
Anyone who is for equal rights and equal pay regardless of gender could be regarded as a feminist. There are male people like this (I am one). However, there are other possible definitions of "feminist".
vital wagon
thanks
the word feminist sounds to me more like a category for people that think women > men , or something similar
maybe they should rename it so that it will be more accurate
btw i also think we are all equal after all
slim ember
Oh hey, its midnight! Its my birthday!
echo agate
Almost killed by 5 volts? 😉
burnt tendon
how re-volting.
dreamy solstice
5 volts cant even hurt you at all
grave crest
It doesn't take much to start a fire. A family member had a 2xAA closet light from the $1 store catch fire a few hours after she put the batteries in it. It was on her desk -- if she wasn't slow to actually install it, it would've been near a bunch of combustible materials.
Since then, all electronics items (from a nightlight to a laptop) I give a monitored break-in period of at least 24 hours before they're left "unattended".
Damaged items/cables are simply tossed (or very heavily scrutinized during repair). And I have a personal rule of never buying sub-par equipment -- though you hear in the news every now and again of recalls for name-brand electronics (Samsung Note fire issues, for example), so that's no guarantee going with a "familiar" name.
polar wraith
@grave crest This reminds me that I need to find all my LiPos and check the charge status. Maybe get a fireproof safe to store them in. 1/2 😃
grave crest
I have a very healthy respect for lithium batteries.
late fulcrum
@dreamy solstice 5 volts can indeed hurt you, when in direct contact with skin for some time. https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1513
dreamy solstice
oh
dusty citrus
The cable is from the 99 cent store so I'm guessing that's the problem
lost comet
What should I use? NOOBs or PINN?
tawny sonnet
@vital wagon "feminist" has been used for... Decades? to mean "someone who believes in fighting for equal rights for women"
It's honestly not just about believing that equal rights should happen - it's a more active stance, that you're willing to speak up about it or act on it in some way. Which is particularly important for male feminists, because unfortunately, a lot of people listen to men when they won't listen to women (or female-presenting people in general)
tawny sonnet
I was also under the assumption that people who thought that feminism meant female superiority were people who knew about feminism and rejected it as a threat; perhaps this was incorrect. At least, in my experience, people who believe that feminism means female superiority tend to unfortunately be insecure and steeped in toxic masculinity - I was unaware that there were people who weren't necessarily anti-feminist once informed, but before being informed, assumed it meant female superiority
burnt tendon
Yah, bell hooks spends a bunch of time writing about the positive aspects of feminism for everybody, as opposed to some notion of female superiority like people seek to portray it as.
An example thereof is that feminism is seeking to say that it's okay for male-presenting people to do sewing or quilting or cook dinner or other female-coded hobbies with the same voice and reasoning such as you'd use to argue that it's OK for female-presenting people to fix cars or do woodworking or runn the grill.
I think most male-type folks get gummed up on the degree to which the inequality piles up or they simply decide that if they "don't see gender" that they have somehow managed to conquer the deeper mental processes involved that make a person fall short of equality unconsciously.
vital wagon
yeah, i guess im not a male feminist, I do acknowledge/think/see us all as equal, but i dont fight for female rights ( tbh because nobody asked help from me)
and look this way : why to fight for women's rights when i think we are all equal, => then women can fight very well for their own rights
Of course, im talking from a perspective of a person who live in europa, maybe in other country things are different
btw hope we not starting a war here..i saw some people who cant discuss things like this as adults
tawny sonnet
so far we've all been pretty well behaved
but I don't have the energy right now to debate your second point so I'm probably going to nope out of this conversation for now
vital wagon
take my energy ⚡ ⚡ ⚡ !
tawny sonnet
d'aww that's sweet, thank you
unfortunately, medical issues have been kicking my butt for a few years now... they are improving, at least, but it's still a drag
tawny sonnet
thanks 😄
I've been working hard on improvign my health little bit by little bit and over the last few years, I've made some decent progress
vital wagon
me too
dusty citrus
From Discover on Google https://blog.adafruit.com/2019/08/02/risc-architecture-is-gonna-change-everything-adafruit-joins-the-risc-v-foundation-risc_v-riscv-adafruit-adafruit/
Now this is pretty epic!
dusty citrus
Is the guilt of lying to yourself greater than that of lying to someone else?
late fulcrum
I have trouble lying to myself, I never believe me.
polar wraith
My Feather M4 Express (soil monitor + AirLift) would run for an hour or two and then crash, which I knew from the Adafruit IO dashboard. It was throwing a RuntimeError about "expected 4E and got 27." I tweaked the code a tiny bit (try/except for the call to Adafruit IO) and I'm currently at hour 10 without a burp. ```
import sarcasm
print("I so love it when that happens.")
tight hill
#include "sarcasm.h"
int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
if (argc > 1)
{
printf("I so love it when %s happens.\n", argv[1]);
}
else
{
printf("um whatever.\n");
return 0;
}
return 1;
}```i see linux, i give like
tight hill
sorry; i haven't slept in a day or two
vital wagon
sleep is for the weak - 50cent quote
polar wraith
As my son (a Marine) says, "sleep is a crutch."
tight hill
for me sleep is a wheelchair
polar wraith
@tight hill It's always entertaining to read the source in the UNIX kernel. I was just browsing through BSD 4.2 once and the comments are precious. I can't put them here, but wow....
vital wagon
who can sleep when we can do so many awesome stuff..
tight hill
heh yeah; one of my favs is something like "can't find printer on lp0. is it on fire?"
i'm currently staying in Tanzania helping some farmers. i have a solar powered raspberry pi check weather websites using a 3G usb modem along with a dht22 to help determine when it should turn on a relay that powers an irrigation system
but i'd rather be making LEDs blink as the knight rider theme plays
burnt tendon
I decided that the power supply, reset, and clock for my breadboarded 6502 would be more easily managed if I pulled them off of the breadboard and onto a piece of PCB.
dusty citrus
Will it run basic?
burnt tendon
🤷 There's at least a few BASICs floating around but I kinda want it to run LISP or Forth or some weird demon-language more than BASIC.
late fulcrum
I'm seriously looking at porting Atari BASIC. It's already written in 6502 assembler, I just need to replace the I/O routines so it doesn't depend on the Atari hardware platform to work. It's an HP-flavoured BASIC, which I much prefer to the GE style BASICs.
Writing an OS sounds like a great project. I'd probably start with a monitor and build on that by adding a scheduler and other OS features.
burnt tendon
Like, they have some neat stuff on pagetable.com doing perverse things with MS BASIC and modern tooling and allowing you to generate customized builds.
Applesoft was the only one I ever used.
late fulcrum
I did toy with the idea of using a more modern C-coded BASIC, which would certainly be easier to customize, but most breadboarded 6502 systems are resource constrained, so I want to use the smallest possible BASIC, which pretty much means sticking with the hand-coded assembler ones.
dusty citrus
I thought about the OS having a built in BASIC interpter
Thought about creating a 8 bit computer that used a RISC V CPU and I thought about making it mainstream
Like
People would create software for it
Games
Programs
Expansion hardware
All that
vernal gale
Risc v is 32bit
burnt tendon
I mean, there's lots of 8-bit-ish architectural things you could do.
Like, there's nothing practically preventing you from making a RISC-V CPU that has a 6502-ish bus.
dusty citrus
I mean
vernal gale
32bit instruction encoding though
burnt tendon
Well, there's the experimental stuff with 16 bit subsets of RISC V
vernal gale
Yeah the C extension
burnt tendon
Either way, I think for the breadboarded 6502, I'm kinda optimizing for developer productivity, which means a really nice and orderly cc65 build pipeline on the PC side.
dusty citrus
As a 15 year old I really want to experience 8 bit computers again
vernal gale
Download VICE?
vernal gale
You can buy a C64 motherboard without all the chips for like $30 on ebay
tawny sonnet
Woohoo , poofy pants
I just dropped them off at the dry cleaner to get professionally pressed; they should look even better then
this costume is mostly sewing, and why I'm taking a break from my electronics-heavy Pandoria cosplay
(Yes, she's missing some pants pleats in the art, probably because the Authentic version of those pants was too hard to animate/draw)
covert spire
@tawny sonnet Hakama! Noice
tawny sonnet
Yup
I'm stressing about the dye job I'm going to have to do on the chihaya, but everything else is coming along nicely
covert spire
I was just looking at some patterns for that
echo agate
@safe nexus A couple X5650s?
tawny sonnet
I thought she was wearing a haori - I got distracted by the neckline and the closure - but I made the haori mockup and put it on and it was all wrong
covert spire
Dying?
tawny sonnet
thankfully, I'm on a cosplay discord that has someone who majored in fashion with focus on east asia, so she was able to point me at the correct thing
fabric dyeing
covert spire
Oh?
tawny sonnet
folkwear has some good patterns
covert spire
All stuff I know is western & European
tawny sonnet
and they give a little historical context
safe nexus
@echo agate how the heck did you get that
i mean i get it
you probably know all of the l3-l2 cache sizes of the x5650
burnt tendon
So, in other words, the pants are really cool now, but when they come back from the dry-cleaner, they'll be im-press-ive?
safe nexus
but there's so many other processors it could have been LOl
echo agate
Westmere/Nehalem was the first Intel platform I worked R&D on 😃
tawny sonnet
@burnt tendon
covert spire
@burnt tendon That attempt seemed a bit hard-pressed
covert spire
Why not
safe nexus
burnt tendon
I mean, yah.
dreamy solstice
that's a lot of processing cores
late fulcrum
I wonder how many of those threads are active. The T2000 CPUs were really good at task switching.
burnt tendon
fickle slate
every day we stray further from the light
why does it need such thick power cables though 🤔
dreamy solstice
next make wings, syncable jaws and ears in the helmet and I can make a mecha argyle fursuit
dreamy solstice
majora's mask remastered
stick an alcubierre drive to a moon
and ftl it into the earth
covert spire
It works too well for people to concept
late fulcrum
I think they're air hoses, not power cables.
covert spire
That won't work for legit cosplay
burnt tendon
I mean, if you want to be blown away by a cosplay....
copper hemlock
I'll take the ones with servo cables plz.
rotund echo
I have this really weird problem: after converting an audio file with ffmpeg VLC player showes incorrect duration. It plays correctly, but I find it really annoying. Any ideas?
late fulcrum
Examine the headers?
dusty citrus
I had been wondering
Will the alcubierre drive ever work or even exist?
I mean
It's a cool concept
And it will maybe revolutionize space travel
burnt tendon
I can't get drunk around physicists because I'll end up yelling at them for not working hard enough on the theoretical basis for FTL drives.
jagged siren
The theoretical basis will have a hard time squaring up with current understanding of special relativity and causality. Won’t say impossible, but it’s more than just a technology problem.
dreamy solstice
what if we just alter our lifestyles to not want space travel
that'd solve the problem
just stop wanting space travel
late fulcrum
I'm guessing warp drive is a solved problem and exists, but probably not like the Alcubierre approach, and not by humans.
tawny sonnet
Aww yeah, found some more costume pics
Conveniently, the craftsmanship trophy coordinated with my costume - Seres is a fire spirit and it's shaped like a flame
covert spire
Nice wings!
tawny sonnet
All hand dyed silk. It was such a pain, but I learned a lot
dusty citrus
Was confused as to which server it was at first
torpid belfry
Not really sure where to talk about this, since it's not really an Adafruit thing
I set up an RPi3 to be an Octopi (Octoprint server) using the Octopi image
I have it set up with an HDMI to DP adapter so it can use a port on my DisplayPort KVM
That all works great
what doesn't work is when I set it using raspi-config to allow GUI logon, I get the logon screen and enter my credentials, then it pauses, re-draws the screen, and comes back to the logon
same account and creds I use to SSH in
anyone have any ideas where I should start looking to troubleshoot?
jagged siren
Don't know about the Octopi image as such, but could try with regular Raspbian or something else to verify the GUI works at all. At least then it'll either be narrowed down to something Octopi does, or else it'll be something across OSes.
torpid belfry
The Octopi image is built off of Raspbian
jagged siren
There's a large number of things they could change and still be based on Raspbian. Assuming that Raspbian doesn't have a completely broken GUI login by default, either there's a bug specific to Octoprint, or something they've documented as different. I'd assume the same credentials for ssh and GUI would work both places, but there's at least some chance they've done something weird (documented or not).
torpid belfry
yup -- I already saw that the mechanism they said to use on install to get WiFi working didn't
I had to go in manually and set it in the normal dhcpcd.conf file
As much as I don't want to reinstall it, I might just go put a normal Raspbian build on it, then go install the Octoprint packages on that
torpid belfry
Okay, taking the plunge. Pulled the SD card, downloading the full Raspbian image...
torpid belfry
...and it seems to be up and running correctly
now I just need to get a compatible webcam
tawny sonnet
Current project: screenprinting dye for a chihaya. This was a warmup run
Dye is thickened with alginate, about 2.5% by weight
We'll see how it looks tomorrow, after steaming and washout
covert spire
How durable is that in comparison to normal screenprinting?
shrewd hatch
@late fulcrum that's one way to use a pager motor
also if your wondering whats under there this is https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Stargate-SG-1-Atlantis-control-crystal-prop-replica-laser-engraved-acrylic-7/223465582890?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
thats because i am working on a control system where the circuits (dead bug style http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2012/10/08/little-wire-dead-bug-art/) are incased in resin/clear potting materials because i am a huge stargate sg1 and Atlantis fan
plus it will hopefully look nice (and be functionable)
devout ravine
My dude that just made my day
grave crest
Dial it up, Walter.
late fulcrum
Oh, that's clever!
tawny sonnet
@covert spire the dye is chemically bonded with the fabric, so it's not going anywhere
Although different dyes have different wash fastness characteristics; fiber reactives and lanaset acid dyes are rock solid, though
That said, you can't to the same special effects as ink (glitter, etc), and they take more effort to fix. They're also not opaque
But if you're doing a piece where it's important that the feel and drape of the fabric not be altered, dye is the way to go. It's why I went with dye for Seres, because I needed it to flutter and flow and move
I'm thinking of starting a YouTube channel for tutorials on this kinda thing, so if there's anything in particular you'd be interested in me talking about, I take suggestions!
shrewd hatch
@late fulcrum i take it you really like that idea i am also looking for a ways to have a second keyboard that types in the ancients font
late fulcrum
Hmm keyboards normally produce glyphs, not typefaces.
covert spire
Well, I know nothing about dye in cloth, just wood. With that said, we got talking about dye in Gi that requires much movement to point that they even require certain level of sewing of patches so they don't come off. (Even iron on) So while what is already screenprinted on comes off, we find alternatives to get logo back on. Free flowing would be nice, but for what we do, we kinda force that anyways 🤣
burnt tendon
I mean, @tawny sonnet's cosplays are to dye for.
tawny sonnet
covert spire
Pretty much expected that one
covert spire
6502?
burnt tendon
The big lesson is that a cheap gnasty 8 pin logic analyzer off of Amazon is far more useful than slowing down the clock.
Yah, old ancient 8-bit processor from the late 70s, early 80s.
The breadboard, with a little bit of PCB to hold the power regulators, reset circuit, and main clock.
And then there's a Cypress USB to serial adapter breakout.
And there's me resetting the CPU a bunch of times to make it print out a string repeatedly.
burnt tendon
...and it turns out that the underlying problem, after substituting parts around, is that the CPU I had was bad.
I may have fried it.
Well, the bill of material cost for a simple Z80 or 6502 isn't actually that bad.
late fulcrum
Z80 isn't too tough to breadboard, but IMHO 6502 and 1802 are easier.
burnt tendon
Like, it's a Rockwell 65c02 with a 0642 datecode, which seems really late.
But I got it from Jameco and I presume they have a higher degree of supply chain maintenance than random ebay merchants.
covert spire
Is that including the graphics card?
late fulcrum
Yeah, Jameco is a decent vendor. You can get current production ones from Mouser, too.
fickle slate
I would suggest digikey
with digikey or mouser you can really narrow down the part you want
digikey seems to have more parts then mouser ?
fickle slate
Learn to program ti84+ calculators @dusty citrus
late fulcrum
If you want to really get a handle on what's going on, you could start with really basic code, like fetch two values from memory, add them, and store the result back in memory. Write it in assembler on paper, then hand-assemble it into hex code. It'll just be a few bytes, it's not too onerous, and will shed some real light on what an assembler does for you. After that, you can code in assembler for a bit, and do more complicated things (maybe figure out how to take decimal numbers as strings of bytes containing digits, convert them into 16-bit binary quantities and add them. Possibly also try to receive and send data via a (simulated?) serial port.
There are, of course, lots of Z80 books out there, like the Z80 Software Gourmet Guide & Cookbook, they're worth looking through.
dusty citrus
Well
I sadly dont have a z80 trainer kit
And I'm thinking of starting out on a emulator
late fulcrum
An emulator is a great place to start, especially if it's the kind that lets you single-step, view the internal register contents and memory locations, etc.
You could also continue breadboarding the Z80.
burnt tendon
Yah, I'd intended to get myself a library of workable 6502 code, maybe write the monitor and OS, before breadboarding a 6502 computer. Then I just went straight into hardware.
late fulcrum
I think I had mentioned before that I'm attempting to port Atari BASIC to a more generic form I can use on a breadboarded 6502.
fading violet
dusty citrus
@late fulcrum the only problem is that i don't know how to get the z80 to drive LEDs and how to put code on the z80
late fulcrum
The usual approach is to provide an I/O port that's simply a latch, connected to the LEDs. To start with, you could use an ordinary 74259 or 74273 type latch, hook the inputs to the data bus, hook the latch enable input to the IORQ pin on the Z80, and the LEDs (and resistors) to the output. That would make it appear at every I/O address, so you could use an OUT instruction with any address to send data to the LEDs.
As for putting code on it, when the Z80 starts, it just starts reading from address 0 and interpreting whatever it finds as instructions. Normally, a ROM is mapped to the low addresses so it runs code from there. You could also use an EEPROM, or an Arduino pretending to be memory, or (my current favorite) use an FRAM chip as combination RAM and ROM and put code on it.
Annoyingly, I don't know of any breadboardable parallel FRAMs available these days, so I just put a surface mount one on a DIP adapter.
late fulcrum
I thought you had breadboarded a Z80 already?
I'm about to try the FRAM trick on my breadboarded 1802.
dusty citrus
Well
Let's just say I used a arduino to interface with the z80
And I have no clue on how to write the code on the arduino
late fulcrum
It should be fairly straightforward to make the Arduino emulate a ROM for the Z80. When the Z80 asserts MREQ and RD, grab the lower few address bits, look up the matching location in Arduino memory, and gate that value out onto the data bus. You don't have to decode the entire address space, just the low few bits are sufficient to get started.
fickle slate
@dusty citrus http://tutorials.eeems.ca/ASMin28Days/lesson/toc.html
assuming you have access to a ti84 to program
dusty citrus
@fickle slate thanks!