SeaToSea

[worldly valve]

You havent said anything outwordly toxic

Its good to express things

[karmic drum]

Oh no. Not that kind of inside thought. More the adhd/autism tendency to think outloud and use people as soundboards

[worldly valve]

I still dont think that is bad in itself. Though i think i get what you mean

[trail ether]

@green bane has just surprised me with a test port of all my mods to 2.0 - these come with no guarantees as to stability, functionality, or even progression integrity, but they are worth trying to help identify issues.

These builds are not official and may not be shared.

when these are sufficiently well-tested and seem functional enough these changes will be merged into the mainline codebases on my repos, and this repo, and its downloads, will be deleted

this also means that as of now the codebase for my mods is frozen barring extreme need or tiny tweaks

https://github.com/RedstoneWizard08/ReikasModsPort

[trail plinth]

I thought i sensed a disturbance

Hm, i should figure out how to have a separate depot for legacy then, so i can try the 2.0 port without losing the ability to play legacy

[trail ether]

probably

[trail plinth]

Gotta love looking for bugs and exploits

I should be a tester for games

[trail ether]

that is an actual job

[trail plinth]

Yeee

[green bane]

:)

[worldly valve]

A copy of the foldwr should work but there is def a better way to do the fulk thing you said

@karmic drum

Neat tho

Time to download and then find out i was somehow exploiting something😆

[karmic drum]

oh I sorted that out when it forst happened lol

had a modlist loaded and ready months ago

[trail plinth]

the issue is that steam doesn't recognize the legacy version as valid once you update to 2.0

[worldly valve]

i was tryna point out reikas anouncement to ya if you missed it

i think there is a way to make 2 different subnauticas show, but im not sure the process

maybe that was the issue i was having...but the mod depot setup has a method of skipping the verification i think but i did not get it working tbh. just kinda moved on to other things

[modern ibex]

No way, somebody ported this

[sterile cobalt]

Does this come with the C2C creatures like the pelagic thalassacean?

[green bane]

If i managed to set up ecclib right then it should

[sterile cobalt]

Ah ok, just curious.

[still drum]

Morale?

[trail plinth]

Theres a morale system in c2c

[forest valve]

if you eat the same shit and ur constantly dying and ur base is bland as hell you get really depressed

making you less willing to do shit

so bascially imagine you took depression and added it to subnautica

[karmic drum]

Depression and a sanity meter

Oh, and you'll just be depressed as hell in some biomes no matter how good your diet is, your base is, or what vehicle you're rolling around in.

[trail plinth]

To be fair, the modifier for those biomes is just high enough that temporary bonuses like diet and the seamoth don't make much of a difference, but if you're in a leisure room, I don't think any biome has enough drain to offset the bonus from the leisure room

[frigid roost]

the steam depot downloader method to re-acquire legacy SN has failed for me, so this remains my only option to play C2C right now
@green bane would it help for me to submit github issues for bugs i encounter while playing this?

i'm not a subnautica modder by any means, but i know how to test and submit reproduction steps at least

[frigid roost]

nvm, i just needed to retry it apparently lol
still let me know if this would help, as i'd love to see this become stable enough to be an official update

[tiny wagon]

I messed something up

[green bane]

Yeah
Sorry my time is split between my main project and school but I will do my best to get to this stuff as soon as I can

[tiny wagon]

I think the grid place mod might be evil right now

But it’s only affecting stuff from reika’s mods

[turbid jungle]

Yeah, I do remember Reika's base stuff being jank with snap-to-grid placement when I played C2C some time ago.

[karmic drum]

I'm reasonably certian this is why we all use building tweaks. Including Reika herself

[tiny wagon]

Time to swap mods

[karmic drum]

Yea, buildings tweaks is the way to go

[frigid roost]

alright, another mod for my collection!

[tiny wagon]

im assuming if my sunbeam debris isnt spawning that my save is effectively borked

welp

[karmic drum]

That's not your save. That's a common problem with the scanner room and c2c iirk

[tiny wagon]

bruh

can I do anything or am I just cooked

[karmic drum]

The debris exist. But the funny little rocks are closer to the crash site then you think. Just watch for what glows.

If you can scan one. A scanner room will be able to accurately find the rest.

[tiny wagon]

so ||avolite|| first and then the rest should pop in?

[karmic drum]

If you find and scan one. Finding the rest will be sinch. Yes.

[tiny wagon]

||the aurora crash site, right?||

[karmic drum]

No.

[tiny wagon]

we chasing geese out here with this one

big thanks

[karmic drum]

Sorry, it's c2c community culture to never give out straight answers

[tiny wagon]

my first debris has spawned

ONE titanium

FUHHH

THERRE IS IT

[karmic drum]

The actual debris themselves are actually pretty valuable even though they might not seem it. Loads of free base deco

[tiny wagon]

GUHHHH

[tiny wagon]

THAAAATS WHAT YOU MEANT BY THAT

good hint

[karmic drum]

Now you're buying what we sell here

Enjoy your statis rifle

[tiny wagon]

if this save were to be borked i wouldve just installed fcs and assorted uhhhh

whats it called

deextinction

[karmic drum]

You'd have been in for a world of hurt. Reika has custom integration that relocates two of the three starter databoxes for fcs around the map and at least as deep the LR

[tiny wagon]

oh last i tried it i found one of the two

[karmic drum]

So it's a mid-late game mod when used with c2c

[tiny wagon]

so i recall the placements at the VERY least

[karmic drum]

Nice. I never found any of them.

[tiny wagon]

thank the lord for scanners

[karmic drum]

Then again I haven't plated in months. I don't manage my adhd and anxiety well enough to play with the moral system

[tiny wagon]

it became leagues more manageable soon as i built a proper leisure room

[karmic drum]

I didn't quite nail the balance on that. So I always felt like I never accomplished enough when I got on. That was very much a ill perception on my part though. Nothing to do with the mod itself

[tiny wagon]

it took me

like

days of in game time

my current save is 25h

[trail ether]

well this one is so LGBTindirect that i the mod dev have no idea what you are on about XD

[karmic drum]

xD okay, might've f;d up on that one

[trail plinth]

I had moderate success starting with short range but high speed and gradually increasing range

[tiny wagon]

am I supposed to not have the advanced wiring kit recipe?

ive crafted computer chips, wiring kits, etc

[unreal flame]

Probably

[tiny wagon]

im on hard mode so no

[trail ether]

https://youtu.be/kZE3fGb2faA

this could be interesting if paired with C2C

though obviously very reined-in

[tiny wagon]

i hope to god i can scan for this thing

[frigid roost]

is it a bug, or intentional, for the databox near ||Lifepod 9|| to be ||unrepairable with my current equipment?||

||it says repair to access it, but unlike other databoxes, this one's health degrades faster than i can repair it||

[tiny wagon]

intentional

[frigid roost]

understood, ty

i'll see if i can figure it out :3

also ||poor guy in that lifepod lol, i would've been terrified||

[tiny wagon]

this advanced wiring kit goose chase is going to be the death of me 😭

||is it supposed to be found in the cave with all the eye stalks?||

[frigid roost]

hmmmm....

WAIT

I JUST REALIZED WHAT IT COULD BE
unfortunately i can't try my theory until i figure out how to get a certain material

[turbid jungle]

I've got a question about morale.
||Ever since the Sunbeam got shot down, I've permanently had 0 morale. Any morale boosts get drained away almost instantly.|| Is this an intended feature, or a bug? And if it's intended, can I get a hint on how I'm supposed to remedy it? ||Because surely I'm not expected to just play through the rest of the game with Ryley being (literally) cripplingly depressed.||

Oh, never mind I guess. I just ||brutally murdered a stalker, and that apparently cured Ryley's depression...somehow.||

[frigid roost]

i experienced that as well, as far as i can tell it's intentional? ||it shouldn't last forever, you just need to drag yourself out of the pit of depression with things that build morale iirc||

i think ||the more you build morale, the quicker it'll stop draining it so much - it seems to be an invisible debuff that lasts for a while|| but i might be wrong

[turbid jungle]

Also, is it normal for morale to ||gradually drain while inside a base? My base is in a biome that seems to build morale when I'm swimming around outside, but when I'm inside it slowly depletes.||

[trail ether]

are you living in a sterile metal box

[trail ether]

think about that for a second

"i just watched the hopes i built up about rescue get obliterated, and with it a sign there can be no other opportunities, while watching a dozen people die at that"

[barren oar]

||...come to think of it is the impact lessened if you've disabled the gun beforehand||

||you can do that by not answering the radio until after you're cured||

||actually by that point you're starting to make the rocket too so it really shouldnt reduce morale at all||

though i guess at that point it's more of the fact that you have to actually do that. ive heard horror stories about the endgame in this channel

[trail plinth]

It is impossible to turn off the gun before the sunbeam event in c2c

[barren oar]

oh actually?

how come?

[karmic drum]

Wait? Do positive events have a lasting impact on morale drain over time? I genuinely can't remember?

[trail plinth]

Required progression

[trail plinth]

Yee

[barren oar]

ohh right right i was thinking of the radio part not the sunbeam part

forgot about the fuckass pray for item spawns minigame

[karmic drum]

Oooh, yea, okay, I just started a legacy run yesterday. But I still have a backed up c2c folder. So I'll keep that in mind

[trail plinth]

I spent a while doing that at the very end of my run, only to realize i can just start with high speed and low range and gradually work my way up to the largest range

[turbid jungle]

Yeah, I saw ||the morale rapidly deplete as the Sunbeam got shot down, so I figured it was somewhat intended, just wasn't sure how long it was supposed to last.||

[karmic drum]

Sunbeam debris are still all over the place. Honestly I'm not even sure that can be fixed without c2c being on 2.0

[barren oar]

i dont think c2c being on 2.0 would magically fix it though

something going wrong in the spawning but who the hell knows what it is

(unless you mean it's fixed in the unofficial 2.0 port?)

[karmic drum]

No no, I was making a broad assumption that 2.0 is likely stable enough to make fixing it a wider possibility

[barren oar]

i see, that's fair

[karmic drum]

"Even though I know nothing about 2.0 or unity in that aspect"

Just running off of "legacy buggy as hell" logic

[worldly valve]

Sometines it takes a bit its weird

[tiny wagon]

Twas wacky but it got dealt with

now I’m struggling with finding the advanced wiring kit

[frigid roost]

holy crap the observatory is a godsend with this mod
i like just sitting in it while i catch up on my PDA entries

[tiny wagon]

is it entirely possible that the advanced wiring kit fell through the map

[trail ether]

no

[tiny wagon]

oh man

[tiny wagon]

I think it’s been 5 actual hours of looking for this thing

[frigid roost]

holy crap thank you so much for making the seamoth lockers larger

[tiny wagon]

dude

Unfortunately it did

so it WAS supposed to be in the ||circular clearing with the eye stalks|| but it fell through the map entirely

[karmic drum]

Why were you searching so hard for a wiring kit?

[barren oar]

werent advanced kits expensive as hell in c2c

[karmic drum]

Oh yea, I think they costed mercury or something

[barren oar]

well everything is but yknow even more so

tbh i think mercury was the easiest part of it

from what i recall

[karmic drum]

Which is fairy non-replenishable up to a point

[barren oar]

you get a buttload of it in [place] where you need to explore with [upgrade you wouldnt think would be used this high up]

and you doonttt really need adv kits before then? i think?

i should really try out the 2.0 port one of these days

[karmic drum]

Oh... yea I think I know where you mean. Kept burning my ass off trying to go there when I shouldn't have

[trail plinth]

||recipe unlock||

[karmic drum]

Huh.. I must've been tripping

[tiny wagon]

||recipe is gated behind it in hard mode||

[karmic drum]

Oh, I never got very far in a hard mode

[modern ibex]

Sea to sea for subnautica 2 when? /s

[karmic drum]

Buddy they ain't even developing the mod for living large

[worldly valve]

Ohhh...ithats why i only rmember finding it the one time

I fihnd it one playthrough suuper early as it was so fucking good

[worldly valve]

I believe there is a port in thsi chat if you scroll up that reika approved but it may be borked who knows

[tiny wagon]

For 2.0

[worldly valve]

Oh

I totes misread that

Ubnautica 2🤣🤣🤣

[karmic drum]

Oh, my bad. Very loose estimates of 1-2yrs are things I think I've seen thrown around. But only Reika themselves can really say anything

[karmic drum]

Oh, my bad. Very loose estimates of 1-2yrs are things I think I've seen thrown around. But only Reika themselves can really say anything

[trail plinth]

I dunno if we can really say that there's going to be c2c for subnautica 2 if A, reika hasn't finished a playtrhough yet, and B, if subnautica 2 isn't even finished yet, since it's still early access

[trail plinth]

I haven't heard of any development on 2.0 yet, but I know it's on her radar at least, she just has other things going on at the moment

[trail plinth]

aside from the 2.0 test port that redstone wizard made

[modern ibex]

I know that's why the "/s"

[forest valve]

hahahhahaha no

9 years if we're lucky for sn2

but for subnautica 2.0 then less i think i cant really confirm

[karmic drum]

Yea, they meant 2.0

Honestly? The mod could never come to 2.0 and I'd understand that

[karmic drum]

Subnautica 2*

Fuck me, I can't type when I first wake up

[forest valve]

itd probably have to be coded again

[trail ether]

C2C is not being ported to SN2

there is absolutely no chance of that

forget the code - it does not make sense from a design and balance standpoint, and all of its content is centered around 4546B

like the idea is patently absurd

[karmic drum]

Yea, that was why I was laughing so hard at the idea

[trail plinth]

C2C2 about 1.5 years from now when you start getting ideas

[trail ether]

no

the game needs to not be EA, and have no chance of further major content updates

[trail plinth]

1.5 years from now was an estimate of when it'd be more or less done, or at the very least when you may start getting ideas :p not a serious timeline estimation

also it was more just an excuse to say C2C2 because it sounds funny

[tiny wagon]

I'm gonna make a new save with De-Extinction and FCS mods frankly

which VERSION of fcs suite should I nab?

1.0.2 is the suite listed on fcstudioshub.com

scratch that, just saw the earlier mention of it

o7

do mods store save data separate from the base subnautica save folders?

I just started a new save and got a ping for the ||alterrahub fabrication facility, the lifepod in the middle of the void||

id like to be able to go in and wipe that if possible

[turbid jungle]

To be fair, when someone says "C2C for SN2," I imagine a progression overhaul mod with similar design principles to C2C, not just literally C2C's exact content in SN2.
But yeah, even then, still a pretty farfetched idea.

[untold kiln]

Any idea if Nitrox works with C2C?

[unreal flame]

meanwhile if someone asks for RotA for SN2, they probably do mean RotA's exact content in SN2, which is never happening

[tiny wagon]

Nitrox shouldnt play nicely with ANY mods iirc

[unreal flame]

with how much stuff C2C does, i really doubt it

[karmic drum]

It is 110% incompatible

[untold kiln]

Darn, thanks for pinging me with that though

[untold kiln]

Huh, I don't remember RPG Framework being a problem before

That's frustrating, I've gotten used to using it

Ok I know this wasn't a problem before, what the hell

This is why I didn't wanna update C2C

Is it actually incompatible with C2C, or does it just break "intended" game balance?

Cuz afaik all it does it give you some extra starting items like the habitat builder, some other tools, batteries, etc

[untold kiln]

I call bullshit

I have this issue with Factorio's Space Exploration too, Earendel decided he knows best and marked a hell of a lot of mods as incompatible because they "break intended progression"

...

Huh, Terrain Patcher is a new dependency

If only the C2C page said it was required and not optional ._.

Wait is C2C updated to SN2.0????

Huh, does the licesnse of C2C mean that people can't monetize YT videos, streams, or Twitch streams if they wanna play it?

[tiny wagon]

It hasn’t

On the uhh

Reika’s website is still the legacy version of it

Someone forked it to 2.0

[untold kiln]

Then why is Terrain Patcher a required dependency, it's only available for 2.0

[tiny wagon]

Huh?

No it’s on

It’s on legacy too

[untold kiln]

Not anymore it ain't

[tiny wagon]

go to files

[untold kiln]

Every single file listed was uploaded after that listed date

[tiny wagon]

the hell

Lemme go look

[untold kiln]

https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/2662?tab=description

[tiny wagon]

Cause I have a ver. For legacy

Lemme check what ver I’m running on my save

im running 0.4 i guess

[untold kiln]

Oh, that one is on Nexus

[tiny wagon]

unsure if I should update it to a later vbersion of it

that's for Reika's judgement

[untold kiln]

It seems as though 0.4 is the only one that works with Legacy SN1, so

...I can't download it cuz it's in the archived section??

[tiny wagon]

Can the archives notbe downloaded?????

Oh my god you’re right

[untold kiln]

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/articles/6847 Apparently there's a workaround

[tiny wagon]

Oh yay

[untold kiln]

Data ID is 8617 for Terrain Patcher 0.4

https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/2662?tab=files&file_id=8617

[unreal flame]

the difference is earendel is a putz and made his shitty burner era required

[untold kiln]

DogeKek

Well, I had to remove half a dozen mods and I have to click past half a dozen "this mod is not recommended due to intended game balance" pop-ups every time I boot up SN, but at least C2C loads now

[untold kiln]

I still call bullshit on this though

[unreal flame]

what's that one give you

[untold kiln]

starting items

[unreal flame]

yeah but what

[untold kiln]

Like the scanner, habitat builder, batteries

[unreal flame]

if it includes anything like a laser cutter or stasis rifle, that'd probably be why

[untold kiln]

Wait what

[unreal flame]

sea to sea is a gameplay and progression overhaul, not sure what else you expected

[untold kiln]

Does it remove those items from the game, or?

[unreal flame]

no, it just moves them later and has them made from different materials

[untold kiln]

Then I don't see why it's listed as "incompatible" instead of "not recommended"

[unreal flame]

getting either tool too early is considered unacceptable

[untold kiln]

If I want to break progression over my knee, I'm damn well entitled to do that

Mods should only be marked as incompatible when they're actually incompatible, like Custom Craft or More Seamoth Depth

[unreal flame]

the mod also removes them and ion batteries from time capsules

[untold kiln]

I wasn't aware mods could do that, neat

I don't like it, but neat

I must also question why RPG Framework was marked as incompatible

[unreal flame]

what did that one do

[untold kiln]

The more you do something, the better you get at it, e.g. the more you swim/walk, the faster you swim/walk. The more damage you take of a specific damage type, the more resistance you gain against that type of damage. The more often you're in danger of drowning, the longer it takes for you to drown when your oxygen meter hits 0

Stuff like that

C2C had zero problems with that before I mentioned the mod late last year >:V

Ergo, I call bullshit again

If C2C can let me run DeathRun with only a warning about game balance, then I should be able to use RPG Framework

Unless of course the game somehow crashes while using it together with C2C due to a new feature of C2C, in which case I'm still annoyed, but fair enough

[unreal flame]

in certain instances, going too fast is considered a progression break

[untold kiln]

...

That's asinine

I see the comparison to Earendel was completely warranted

[unreal flame]

you do know that you can just play with the other component mods of C2C just fine, yes?

[untold kiln]

Yes, I'm well aware. I specifically want to play C2C

Because it's a great mod and I really wanna complete it for once

I just have issues with the choices Reika has made with the mod "incompatibility" list

I can't save while outside my base????

Oh this is going to be painful indeed

[untold kiln]

imo this is a huge mistake, SN breaks often enough that not being able to save while outside a base is a terrible, terrible thing

Mind you, a lot of that is likely my long modlist, but still

The large wrecks that C2C has those nanite repair things in specifically cause all sorts of issues all the time

[unreal flame]

i suppose i'm just confused on why you'd play the Progression Rebalance Mod when you don't want the Progression Rebalanced

[untold kiln]

Lots of cool new features, story, recipes, and lore

Plus it gives me a fresh way to experience Subnautica that other mods simply don't do

[unreal flame]

part of a long chain of solutions to a problem

[untold kiln]

wdym?

[unreal flame]

to prevent cheesing an unlock by subsequently dying, dying will instead prompt reloading the last save. to prevent saving from subsequently resulting in an inescapable softlock, saving is prevented if you aren't considered to be in a safe spot (physically and otherwise)

[untold kiln]

Ah, that makes sense

Does it give you a button to load the last save, or do you have to Alt + F4 and reload the game?

[unreal flame]

it's not a solution i'm particularly happy with personally, but it's more robust overall than the alternatives (such as reverting any unlocks acquired since being in a "safe place" after dying)

unfortunately I think it does require a restart (thanks SML/QMM)

[untold kiln]

Yeah that sounds like it would be hard to bugfix

Ok. That's something I'm used to anyway due to DeathRun, so the only thing that really changes is where I'm allowed to save, not how often I reload the game lol

[unreal flame]

there's at least some precedent for such, considering the materials you usually drop on death are just "anything you didn't have after last leaving a safe spot"

I once suggested a system where you have to do some kind of deal where you have to haul databox chips (and perhaps some similar chip generated for certain scan unlocks) back to some sort of decryption device in your base

[untold kiln]

That sounds neat

Instead of directly uploading them to your PDA onsite, you bring them back and use a machine for it

[unreal flame]

couldn't figure out a way to get that to precisely revert the unlocks if you do die (say you just keep dying to move the chip a foot closer to the exit of a wreck, or something) particularly in the case of fragment scans

[untold kiln]

...honestly if someone has that much patience/stubbornness, then they deserve to cheese that unlock

[unreal flame]

a databox turning into some chip item is whatever, you could feasibly have that teleport back to the databox when dropped or something

but how do you partially revert a scan

(and put the scannables back)

((without it being an absolute buggy mess))

etc etc

still, I find the idea compelling enough so I'll probably get someone else to add it to something

[untold kiln]

XD

[barren oar]

oh hell nah

[untold kiln]

DogeKek

[barren oar]

you're already always at full inventory because of how much you need to grind for c2c

you want to make the material grind even longer

[unreal flame]

true

[untold kiln]

Interesting that you turn 5 quartz into a quartz boule, but the quartz boule can only be decrafted into glass

[unreal flame]

tbh I kinda just like the idea of the databox card being an item for something

[barren oar]

?!

wasnt it into 5 quartz too

wait how much glass do you get back

[untold kiln]

You craft 5 quartz into a boule, then 2 boules into 5 glass

[barren oar]

oh 2 boules i was wondering

[untold kiln]

Doesn't make much sense to me since the boules/ingots are specifically added to the game as compact storage options, but oh well

[unreal flame]

mighta been some kind of semantic thing but i do sort of agree

maybe uncrafting glass into quartz

[untold kiln]

As a direct result of this with both C2C and Space Exploration, I don't mention extra mods I use anymore, cuz they'll just get banned. And unlike with Space Exploration, I can't just edit C2C to revert the changes I don't agree with

[barren oar]

thankfully its not like quartz is particularly rare either so its not a huuge losss

-# well i mean nothing's stopping you from editing c2c either . it being a compiled c# dll and all .

[untold kiln]

I don't know how to do that

I don't remember the ability to pin recipes being in SN legacy, huh

iirc on one setting, the faster start mod also gives you the rebreather and the radiation suit

Lol I didn't even get to see the crashfish explode

One notable downside of playing on Freedom Mode is that I can't heal myself by eating

[karmic drum]

So um... yea I see you found the balance breaker blacklist

[karmic drum]

I remember the last time I played a hardcore save for this mod. I got over 20hrs in and then died to forgetting to pause my game 💀

[dense seal]

i place the CTC mod in the bepinex folder right?

under plugins?

[karmic drum]

I believe so. You install all of Rekia's mods for C2C as you would any common mod

[dense seal]

mods? plural? the download only gave me one mod for C2C

[karmic drum]

https://reikakalseki.github.io/subnautica/mods/di.html

You want all her subnautica mods

Up to date

[dense seal]

is this what i need?

idk if the mod is working

not sure i see anything new

[normal rune]

Would there be any chance of getting a pinned comment of Reika's modlist? Like, the things used in addition to her own mods?

[trail plinth]

The reason the mods are listed as incompatible is because they will break the progression of C2C. You say you are entitled to break the progression over your knee if you so choose, however at that point youre not really playing C2C anymore. If these restrictions were not in place, how many people would just break the progression without even realizing it? How many people would just install the mods to skip progression in C2C because they couldnt be bothered to play it normally? Why bother playing it at all if youre going to intentionally break the progression? As entitled as you are to play how you want, mod makers are entitled to make their mods how they want, even if that means blacklisting mods that completely break progression systems

Also because of progression flags, a lot of the mods you listed would actually brick the save as well, like you wouldnt be able to progress properly because a lot of the progression flags wouldnt get triggered properly

[karmic drum]

Yea, what Hex said

It seems like you should find a different mod to play

[untold kiln]

Like I said earlier, if there are actual technical issues that are why mods get blacklisted, that's entirely fair and valid and I won't complain about that. My issue is if there's no technical issues, and instead something gets blacklisted due to personal preference. You are entirely correct that mod makers can make mods however they want, I simply don't agree with arbitrary limitations that have no real justification than "because I said so". Additionally, C2C already throws up warnings for mods that can mess with progression without fully blacklisting them, which, while it is annoying to have to click past them every time I die, is vastly preferable than "you can't use these mods at all".

Ultimately, I'm sure that no matter what I say, none of this will cause/lead to any changes to C2C in the way I'd prefer, so I'm not going to bother continuing this conversation and instead I'll just enjoy C2C with what mods it'll let me use 😄

[trail plinth]

The problem is that it's not personal preference as you say. Just because you like to play with certain mods does not mean they are compatible with an overhaul mod. They are not arbitrary limitations as you would make them out to be

[untold kiln]

Unless "the player is moving too quickly" somehow bricks the save, I can't not call that one personal preference

[trail plinth]

Using the example of the starting tools, as N8 pointed out, the laser cutter and stasis rifle are heavily gated progression-wise. Simply having them at the start of the game not only breaks progression in terms of what becomes available to you way beforehand, but also completely breaks the progression flag system since you have triggered multiple flags out of order. And even without those two examples, starting with a bunch of other tools will also cause cascading problems

[karmic drum]

Wow... that was a big old wall of "I'm gonna ignore what hex said cause I don't agree with it

[trail plinth]

It does.

[untold kiln]

...how?

[trail plinth]

Judging by what you've said already, I'm willing to assume you don't understand how C2C plays and where and when things can and do break if exploited

Speed is a measure of distance covered over time, yes?

If something is gated by "you cannot cover that distance in the time you have until you unlock this thing" then going faster than intended will break that

[untold kiln]

I haven't specifically attempted to exploit C2C, so not really. I have gotten a decent way into progression, though my last save died around when I was trying to figure out how to survive in the Lost River

[trail plinth]

This is something that happens like 6 times or more

If you've gotten to the lost river then you know exactly why the laser cutter and stasis rifle being available at the start would brick progression

[untold kiln]

This was back in early-mid 2025, so my memory is rather fuzzy

[trail plinth]

Fair enough then

Additionally, keep in mind that this isn't just for you

[untold kiln]

I assume the stasis rifle is due to that one life pod though

[trail plinth]

It's for several things actually

[untold kiln]

Oh that's fancy 😄

I like that it says how much power they use now

[untold kiln]

This is true

I got rather annoyed when I saw that the cyclops nuclear reactor and the nuclear upgrade were both blacklisted, but C2C adds new reactor rods, so I wouldn't be surprised if the game crashed or bugged out if you attempted to insert the modded reactor rods into the Cyclops nuclear reactor or something

[trail plinth]

If reika were to lift these 'forced blacklisted' mods, do you have any idea how many reports reika is going to get for the game not being playable? People very often don't read, as is often highlighted in this chat. Not everyone is going to understand why something is incompatible, or breaks progression, and act accordingly. Having a percentage of bug reports being "why can't I progress?" when they just didn't read a warning that said something was incompatible means more headaches for the mod developer that takes away from actual issues that need to be addressed

[trail plinth]

There's that, but there also may be progression-related issues depending on how early you have access to it, how much power it produces relative to what C2C expects, etc

[untold kiln]

idk what the power situation is like deeper into the game, so I'll take your word for it

[trail plinth]

Again, overhaul mod. It's a puzzle/exploration mod first and foremost

Adding more pieces to a puzzle can have unintended consequences

[untold kiln]

...y'know what, fair and valid. I work in technical support, and the number of calls we get that wouldn't happen to begin with if people would actually fucking read the instructions they have to click past to do whatever it is they're trying to do is staggering

[karmic drum]

Or trying to shove in pieces from other puzzlss

[trail plinth]

Ahhh very good analogy actually

Yeah, you can't expect everyone to do their due diligence

[karmic drum]

Oh yea that's a great reference

I've somehow gotten the same problems working in food service

Like why can't people read 😭

Not even fancy food either. Like entry level fast food

[untold kiln]

If everyone A: reads instructions and B: actually thinks for themselves and troubleshoots in a sane manner, then we could lay off half my department and we'd still be less busy than we currently are

Now I'm tempted to try and learn how to make/edit SN mods, but if the progression gates really do brick saves if they're done out of order, I probably shouldn't

DogeKek

[trail plinth]

Yeeeeah, it's a bit finnicky because of how subnautica tracks progression flags

[untold kiln]

Here's to hoping SN2 is better in that regard since it's in UE instead of Unity 🤞

[trail plinth]

doing something out of order would basically make the flag that would have been triggered just not

yeeeeeeee

also don't be surprised if reika starts replying to your earlier messages in order before seeing that you've come to an understanding, assuming she bothers to read up anyway

[untold kiln]

At any rate, the primary reason as to why I'm so invested in C2C even though it forces me to remove several mods I'd really rather not play without, is because it brings back the discovery/mystery aspects of your first-ever Subnautica run

And that's worth a hell of a lot

[trail plinth]

oh for sure, I wish I could do a fresh C2C run without the memories of the previous ones 😭

[untold kiln]

...though I 100% plan to noclip the mushroom forest tree and the bulb zone caves, I've completed both of those completely legitimately probably 3-4 times by now and I'm sick and tired of them

Literal hours

Tired

[trail plinth]

just remember the progression flags, I think those ones are fairly lenient though since they're early on

[untold kiln]

I plan to do them at their natural place in progression, I'm just sick and tired of spending hours getting lost in the same two caves

[trail plinth]

yeee that's fair tbh, I get lost in caves way too much

[untold kiln]

I do that all the time lol

I'mma dieeeee

[unreal flame]

Oh right I forgot about the system that tracks progress; there are a bunch of checks underlying the progression system that operate off the assumption that you’re only getting things at the points where it’s reasonable to expect that someone has them. Skipping a progression point somewhere can have consequences that aren’t immediately obvious to the user and can cause a save to become effectively softlocked or otherwise much more difficult to move forward in

[untold kiln]

Is there a reasonable way to make the system less fragile?

Or is just how SN1 works

[unreal flame]

I can’t really recall the minutia of it

[untold kiln]

Fair

[trail ether]

I do not have pin power

[untold kiln]

Darn

[tiny wagon]

Preach

It’s painful

[untold kiln]

Habitat builder acquired! 😄

I don't remember this taking 17 fragments, what the hell

[trail ether]

your position is not fundamentally unreasonable, however:

the reason this system exists is because people who "want to break the progression over their knee", or even, as Hellexar mentioned, do so blindly and without any kind of understanding or even awareness of the implications of their decisions, are the majority

[untold kiln]

I imagine that's caused plenty of headaches in the past

[trail ether]

this community is absolutely riddled with what are either children or feel like children, whose modpacks consist of insanely overpowered (and thematically ruinous) shit

an environment in which C2C not only does not work properly, but cannot even operate - for example how can any of the environmental survivability progression (used for controlling access to areas, and thus the ability to even have a progression system) make sense when you have a teleporting seamoth with integrated respawn bay and mining laser that strips every ore you pass from the walls with a 5x yield?

[unreal flame]

where's the thing i need to pin

[untold kiln]

Wow, I didn't know there were mods for that

[unreal flame]

i think she's sort of exaggerating but the seamoth warp is a thing and the drill arms are also a thing

[untold kiln]

I do miss the drill arms

[unreal flame]

wasn't explicit compat added for seamoth arms

[untold kiln]

But eh, the crusher thing exists, as does the propulsion cannon

Though I've yet to get the crusher thing to actually work

[unreal flame]

i had this whole thing about "just make them more expensive than the prawn drill and put them in the same spot of progression"

[barren oar]

did you power it

[untold kiln]

I believe so? Again, it's been like a year since my last C2C attempt, so my memory is fuzzy

[trail ether]

and even beyond the directly functional aspect of that, ie the mods breaking mechanically, or just people causing problems because they broke things and need it explained in crayon using the most common 50 words, I want to also point out how awful this is as a creator who spent years designing and tweaking a progression system that most people just go on to not only ignore but not even be aware exists

[unreal flame]

if it's on a powered platform it should be good

[barren oar]

oh i thought you were playing around with it now

[untold kiln]

Nah, I mean in past runs, with or without C2C

[trail ether]

speedy i see you are also in the modded MC discords - are you aware that I actually started there, and how things went from 2013 to ~2015 for me?

it was "Big Drama" for years

[untold kiln]

I'm aware you're a prolific modder across multiple games, but I'm not aware of your MC drama, no

[trail ether]

early 2014 my mods got added to several FTB packs, and thus went "mainstream"

[unreal flame]

everyone and their mother loved oredicting tungsten

[untold kiln]

Oh boy, exposure

[trail ether]

the big ones being Monster and Horizon

what ensued was well over a year of support burden caused by almost noone playing them "properly", because of a mix of shitty pack configuration, interference from private server admins (usually of the "trying to impose their own balance controls" variety), and, worst of all, people assuming that the experience they were getting was as i designed it

you could, if you chose, go back and read years of comments from me on four platforms complaining about this

[untold kiln]

Ouch

[trail ether]

so i responded in two ways

one was to build a much more rigid progression system into RotaryCraft, and as I developed ChromatiCraft, roll an entirely new progression system not vulnerable to the usual outside interference (ie not one controlled simply by producing items and not in systems for which tools like bukkit plugins and minetweaker scripts exist)

(amusingly, the CC progress system very much resembles how SN does it, with chains of flags, though CC is much more complex)

[trail ether]

the second was one of the most controversial things ever done in the community, which generated a huge amount of backlash, and in fact even today still has people shit-talking me over it, despite it having been more than ten years

this
https://reikakalseki.github.io/minecraft/pages/perms/packrules.html
https://reikakalseki.github.io/minecraft/pages/perms/thirdparty.html

[unreal flame]

i honestly couldn't think of any similar examples to c2c's progression flags system that weren't mods derived from chromaticraft

[trail ether]

i built a whole framework of permissions and restrictions on "third party" (ie not me or the user) modifications to the mods' behavior

whose "rigidities" were specifically aimed at addressing the various issues I had been experiencing

[untold kiln]

Interesting rules

[trail ether]

stuff like "if you change any of this class of thing, you need to put it in this file, which the mod uses to shove it in the player's face making sure everyone knows it was not me"

and outright forbidding touching things that are progression-sensitive in a mechanical way

[untold kiln]

I can see why you got backlash for that, yeah

[trail ether]

but it worked

i ended up getting dropped from FTB for unrelated reasons - they wanted to go all-in on an "only RF power" policy - but even outside of and before that it caused my support load to drop massively

and better still it caused shitty first-time experiences to almost completely cease

[untold kiln]

Players must not be given preferential treatment; admins or donators get no more access to banned features than ordinary players do

If a large section of the playerbase strongly disapproves of the disabling of an item, the one(s) responsible for disabling it must make a valid justification for their reasoning to their players. If they fail to do so to their players' satisfaction, the ban must be lifted
I'm curious as to the reasoning behind these rules? They seem out of place

[trail ether]

also, the modded minecraft ecosystem never had quite the same problem with "deliberately unbalanced" mods the same way SN does

there are a few, and i developed countermeasures for those

but for the most part the "mainstream" mods were not only safe but ones I actively wanted to see used alongside mine and built a ton of compatibility and features for

had it been like SN and the top 10 mods being things like "dirt has a 20% chance to drop diamonds" and "looting 384 fortune 500 stone pickaxe", i would have had to resort to something more like what I did in C2C

[trail ether]

i was actually referring to vanilla SN, the StoryGoal system

[karmic drum]

I tried to browse nexus for living large update mods yesterday... not only was there next to nothing up to date for the 2025 patch. But also what was usable... 60% of it was unbalanced trash made for children or by people with the minds of children

[trail ether]

StoryGoals are just a simpler version of CC ProgressStage, but without the internal hierarchical structure and chaining logic

as well as without the related systems like the research fragment unlock system built on it

[trail ether]

one common problem, though less common than some of the others, was servers locking the "good stuff" to just admins or donators

donators is obvious - standard pay to win or pay to have fun

and i had an aggressive stance against that

to the point I had several servers shut down over it

for example these two being one of the most famous https://reikakalseki.github.io/imagedownloads/i-imgur-com_2Fgx0l03P.png

hard to run a server and pay for hosting when the credit card companies have just blacklisted you for fraud

[unreal flame]

modern MC's advancements are arguably similar, to the point that some chromaticraft-inspired mods use them as a basis for their progression by introducing chaining logic

[trail ether]

admins was just trying to enforce a kind of power tripping "exalted caste", people wanting to lord over their "subjects" using my mods as a tool to do so

I was having no part of that

[karmic drum]

And you are right to have made that choice

Such behaviors are cheap, hollow, and social degrading

[trail ether]

I may not have the power to eliminate toxicity and abuse universally, but you can be damn sure i will block what I can, and prevent my work from being used as a tool to support such a thing

[trail ether]

this

or ExU compressed cobble and my bedrock

or just "bedrockium" and my bedrock

[karmic drum]

Ah yes, Oredicting... the simplest way to kill progression by letting every mod give you the same solution to one problem 💀

[untold kiln]

Lol, lmao even

[trail ether]

every single one of these is a response to a widespread problem https://i.imgur.com/zFt5myZ.png

like literally i just enumerated the most common problem-causing changes people were making

for example the extractor

[untold kiln]

Out of curiosity, do your "no monetization" rules exempt streamers/YouTubers? Or are they not allowed to monetize videos/streams that use your mods

[trail ether]

tons of modpack devs and server admins looked at the extractor, looked at its recipe in NEI, and, with no awareness of the progression tree in RC, banned the machine because "lol OP 5x ore multiplication"

completely blind to how the extractor is the only way to produce several materials necessary for progression

[untold kiln]

RIP

[trail ether]

the grinder also gets this, to a lesser degree

[trail ether]

that was largely the point, honestly

[karmic drum]

.............

Actually how 😭

[trail ether]

there was ENDLESS chatter about "mod compatibility" and "harmony"

which was always just used to mean "every mod is interchangeable and plug and play"

this is what drove the "all RF all the time" initiative i mentioned above

people wanted, and considered as objectively good, to be able to just use any content from any mods in any combination and have it work

[karmic drum]

Which I'm personally not fond of

[trail ether]

being mechanically special was seen as a problem

[karmic drum]

Ah yes, just like being judged for having things like autism or adhd in the real world scenarios

[untold kiln]

I will say that I've been frustrated many magic mods for similar reasons, but I imagine that's mostly on the pack creators and not on the mod authors

[karmic drum]

If it requires thought beyond the socially universal "comfort zone" then suddenly it's a problem" 🙄

[trail ether]

i remember this user offhand https://www.reddit.com/user/blockachella/comments/

they disappeared after trump won the first time and blamed fucking restrictive minecraft mods for it

"you laid the groundwork for authoritarianism!"

[karmic drum]

Mara's mercy....

I hope they've considered not reproducing

Genuinely

[trail ether]

they wrote a whole open letter to the community about it

[karmic drum]

Okay... this is so sad it's almost comical from an outside perspective

[trail ether]

it was not comical to be one of the obvious intended targets

nor to see it actually get some traction

[karmic drum]

No no, obviously not. Hence the framing of "outside perspective"

If I were on the receiving end of that, at that time in my life..

It may well have done lasting psychological damage

[trail ether]

modding MC actualyl dragged me out of depression but that is another story for another time

[trail ether]

you should see the blowback my modpack gets

including from people i used to cosnider friends

(and yes, past tense, and not coincidentally)

[karmic drum]

Oh, I've had that happen.... different circumstances. But I've had it happen on more than one occasion.

[trail ether]

being screamed at in all-caps because "WHAT IF I DON'T WANT TO TRY SOMETHING NEW" and "I USE THIS BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLE BECAUSE I WANT TO FOCUS ON OTHER THINGS, WHY ARE YOU CONTROLLING HOW I PLAY"

[karmic drum]

You stop playing by the assumed rules...

[trail ether]

that particular incident was in response to how DR restores the tekkit-era BuildCraft engine thermal mechanics

ie overheat to explosion

[karmic drum]

And grown adults turn into whiny children who immediately sever any false respect or bond they had for without a second thought

[trail ether]

so you cannot just blindly redline them and expect it to work

you need to build a redstone control system

my saying that is what triggered the meltdown

[trail ether]

the sad part is he is like five or six years older than me

meaning he is like 40 now

and that was in feb 2020

so not that long ago

[trail ether]

actually i am the one who severed the bond

[karmic drum]

People, as I have learned in my 25yrs on this rock... is that people are highly adverse to accepting choices which are not of their "own making"

[trail ether]

i got sick of him and a dozen or so others constantly smugly shitting on me

often showing up randomly in unrelated discussions just to make a jab and disappear again

[karmic drum]

I did in the end as well. But their actions make their intentions clear

I had a similar incident back in October. My therapy was going well, and I'd finally learned to stop masking my disorders. Little did I know that this action, and my subsequent total departure from my previously "socially preferred behaviors" would lead to be being made into a target of every friend group I was in.

When the dust settled I had a single person left to call friend. And they are still with me today.

[dense seal]

does anyone know how to properly set up C2C? I dont think i did it properly

i inserted C2C and the alterra industries thing into my bepinex plugin folder

that didn't seem to work

[untold kiln]

You put them into your QMods folder

[unreal flame]

I do still think the extractor ought to be split into an explicitly multi-machine thing
(I am still very well aware of your reasoning for it being such but you could still absolutely have one of the machines doing that and have other mechanical challenges for the others)

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/csvZWKq.png
note the timestamp

[unreal flame]

you need all the other subnautica mods from reika's site as well

[dense seal]

isn't QModloader dead and replaced by bepinex?

[untold kiln]

For the current version of SN1, yes, but C2C only works on the legacy version of SN1

[unreal flame]

currently only works on legacy*

might be changing around soon

[untold kiln]

All the more reason for me to finish C2C now, since FCStudios is still stuck on legacy and shows no signs of releasing a 2.0 update anytime soon

[karmic drum]

Shame on all of them....

[unreal flame]

on top of the fact that it seems like they might be doing their third major overhaul of the mod suite...

[untold kiln]

Again??

[unreal flame]

i've heard such

[untold kiln]

They didn't even finish the 2nd overhaul

[unreal flame]

could be wrong

[trail ether]

see what i said about having severed the relationship

i left my old server

cutting off 80% of my social circle

and i look back on it with nothing but that feeling an abused spouse gets when they escape and realize just how bad things were

[karmic drum]

Likewise for me and my scenario

[trail ether]

that is more for "feel" than anything else

like there is nothing about being multiple machines that would improve things from a balance standpoint

[unreal flame]

repositioning where each step ends up in rotarycraft's progression might help, i think

[trail plinth]

To be fair though, having it be 1 machine makes it more interesting to actually power all 4 stages with reasonable speed

[unreal flame]

that's what i mean by being well aware of the reasoning for it

[trail plinth]

Rather than 2-4 machines in tandem with fixed gear ratios

Yeah i figured, wasnt sure if there were any further underlying reasons though

[unreal flame]

you could reasonably have a machine that only comprises two of the steps and still have the switching puzzle

while making two more machines for the remaining two steps and giving them some other puzzle to solve

[trail plinth]

Imo splitting it into the first and last two stages would be ideal, i always liked switching from maximum speed to torque but enough speed to 1-tick the flakes part

[trail ether]

the problem is the steps are TSST-gated

and the middle two are the only two that would make sense to leave together

[trail plinth]

So 2 machines doing TS-ST would be nice

[trail ether]

like a salad spinner

[unreal flame]

how do you mean?

[trail ether]

the steps are "grind, wash, strain/press, and dry"

[trail plinth]

One is washing and the other is centrifuging right? Or sifting?

[unreal flame]

i'll admit that the extractor is still sort of just a magic block to me

[trail ether]

the only two of those with "process similarity" is the middle two

[unreal flame]

i see

[untold kiln]

...the console command box isn't opening, hm

[trail plinth]

I think theres a file that needs to have a thing enabled

Kinda like a eula

But i might be wrong in both regards

[untold kiln]

Oh wait apparently access to the console command box changed with the LL update, what's the button to open it in legacy?

[trail plinth]

Grave maybe?

[karmic drum]

I think it's Shift + Enter

[untold kiln]

Tried that 🙁

[unreal flame]

wait why is drying a torque process but pressing/straining is a speed process

[trail ether]

` for me

[trail plinth]

Oop

[untold kiln]

Those are both from the LL update, according to the wiki

[unreal flame]

maybe we take this to DMs this isn't minecraft channel

[trail ether]

because torque makes more sense than speed does for heat

[unreal flame]

oh i was thinking like drying with a fan

[trail plinth]

Iirc its heat-drying

Hence the flames icon

[untold kiln]

Hm, none of the F-buttons work, neither does ` or Shift-Enter

[unreal flame]

oh yeah aren't you supposed to check the box in f1 or whatev

[trail plinth]

Tbh having the first two processes together makes the most sense imo, drilling plus washing, then sending the slurry to be sifted and heat-dried

Oh yeah the checkbox 😭 i thought it was in a file somewhere

[karmic drum]

Couldn't tell you then. But I'd be careful with the console and C2C. One user in particular bricked innumerable saves by attempting all manner of console abuse

[untold kiln]

Ah I found it, there's a box you have to uncheck in the F3 menu!

[trail plinth]

Ah F3

[unreal flame]

(argument, why is grinding a separate process from putting it through the actually-already-separate ore crusher)

[untold kiln]

One of my mods has been bugged for years, where its one and only unlock just doesn't fire when it's supposed to, so I always have to unlock that recipe using a console command

[trail plinth]

Precision id imagine

[unreal flame]

fair

[trail plinth]

Using a drilling mechanism compared to just crushing everything between two sharp rotating thingies

Though yeah I do understand your point

[unreal flame]

washing while drilling does make sense, not just for cooling reasons

[trail plinth]

Yeee

[trail plinth]

Oooogh, which mod?

[untold kiln]

Deep Engine

It's supposed to unlock when you craft your first wiring kit

[trail ether]

oh that was the other thing i was going to say about skipping C2C progression

[untold kiln]

?

[trail ether]

C2C progression gates are incremental and if you are not firing things in the order expected the system will break, causing future firings to fail

[cloud pollen]

crazy that they uploaded v0.4 to the nexus page, i stopped linking to it in the readme a long time ago now that legacy subnautica is discontinued for security reasons

[trail ether]

because there is a lot of if (older flag && new condition) {new flag}

[unreal flame]

(this is also sorta how spectrum/pastel do it lol)

[untold kiln]

Ah. Is there a reasonable way to make that system more robust?

[trail ether]

to say nothing of lots of mechanics themsekves checking StoryGoal flags

as well as being able to launch the rocket

[trail plinth]

ahh, haven't heard of it. Unlucky though, but at least it's a relatively simple in-situ fix

[untold kiln]

Ye ye

it used to work fine and I swear I've never updated the mod, but for whatever reason, it just doesn't want to unlock the only thing it adds lol

It's already on The List™ of "not recommended, but not banned" mods, I get a pop-up for it every time I reboot the game

This is to say, please Reika, don't ban it

[unreal flame]

Another note about “my way or the highway” type stuff being directed at modders: how far can that reasonably be taken

People ask near constantly about if the Garg can be killed, and if not why not, and so on

[untold kiln]

Well that doesn't seem like it should be allowed lmao

[unreal flame]

Building tweaks?

[untold kiln]

No idea but it's funny and I won't be building it there

[trail ether]

not jyst mod devs - very relevsntly there is a drama storm on /r/subnautica right now lasting days because people have discovered that killing is impossible in SN2

[untold kiln]

I assume the answers to those questions are: no, because it's way too big, andd "it's less an animal and more a 'natural disaster', have you ever tried to kill a hurricane?"

[unreal flame]

Should I have to sacrifice something I see as important to my mod just to sate a request I consider unreasonable despite how common it is?

[trail ether]

"it completely ruins the game!"

[unreal flame]

That’s among them, yes

[trail ether]

meanwhile did we notice? of course not

[untold kiln]

As long as there's a way to make those medium-small aggressive fauna leave me alone(at least temporarily), I don't mind being unable to kill things

[unreal flame]

I mean, I noticed the relative lack of proper deterrents, but that’s a somewhat separate issue

[untold kiln]

Becoming a living pincushion in under 10 seconds just because I got out of my Tadpole in the wrong biome is annoying af

I do, however, find it hilarious that when a Tadpole bumps into a fish, the fish wins

DogeKek

[unreal flame]

I think the tadpole just needs a flares button

Also people hanging off it should be able to one-hand certain tools

Particularly the ones that only require one hand

[untold kiln]

The one time I used a flare, it did absolutely nothing

[unreal flame]

Yeah same

[untold kiln]

So the only defenses against aggressive fauna of any size are either A: run away, or B: hide

[trail ether]

no i mean the literal lack of health and damage

and one of the SN2 devs said "this is how it is" and there is insane backlash

[unreal flame]

yeah i know

[untold kiln]

Tbf when you set a hardline stance like that, you should expect massive backlash, especially when this is (apparently) an argument they already had in SN1 and the community won that one

[trail ether]

this https://www.reddit.com/r/subnautica/comments/1tdsjod/how_do_yall_feel_about_the_devs_no_killing_stance/

and it is now half the subreddit

just whining and shitposting

[untold kiln]

I do miss seeing fish splatter against my vehicles, idk how they expect to handle fish collisions if the fish are all invulnerable

[trail ether]

they get knocked aside apparently

but my point neither N8 or I noticed during our playthrough

[untold kiln]

Unless there's been a patch since I played yesterday, the Tadpole is what gets pushed aside, not the fish lol

[trail ether]

which makes all these claims about how it is super heavyhanded and ruins the gameplay obvious lies

the only way you could notice is by trying and finding out they do not die

realistically most people only know because of this shitstorm

[unreal flame]

was yesterday and the day before

our playthrough, i mean

[untold kiln]

There's no need to try to run over a fish, they're just there cuz of how common they are, and it's a pretty obvious change from SN1 since there's no splatter and no SFX

[unreal flame]

it does feel like the multitool ought to be able to be a "fuck off button" though

not actual damage, but makes the midsize hostiles leave for a little while

[untold kiln]

Absolutely, I wanna bonk a fish and make it fuck off for 10 seconds at a minimum

[unreal flame]

also, despite everything being relatively more aggressive overall in SN (not good) the only fish that is as fucking annoying as the Boneshark was, is one I can grab, cook, and eat

which i'm satisfied with

[untold kiln]

Which one?

[unreal flame]

the ||electric geordie||

[untold kiln]

Ah, those are annoying af

Honestly most of the fauna in that area are overly aggressive and never leave you alone

LIES

[karmic drum]

Which is perfectly in line with subnautica's original game philosophy

I don't see why people have the grounds complain

[unreal flame]

when was this

[untold kiln]

Yesterday

[unreal flame]

it would've been so useful when i was trying to get a scan and using flares

fuck

maybe it was in effect

what i want is a flare gun

just let me load flares in and stun the hell out of enemies if i hit them

[untold kiln]

I tried to get a scan by both using my friend in a reinforced Tadpole as bait, throwing a flare, and staying near the top of its head, but NOOOO, it abandoned the Tadpole and yoinked me basically instantly and killed me even though I was nowhere near its tentacles

[karmic drum]

Subnautica one didn't by definition have weapons. It had tools and by the time the devs realized that those tools could kill. It was too late to patch that fact out. Players had become attached.

[unreal flame]

Aside from that it just acts as a longer flare throw

[untold kiln]

LuffyUnimpressed

[karmic drum]

This is just the team correcting that error from the first game.

[untold kiln]

They could've done that in BZ

[unreal flame]

i'm a bit sad at the lack of world dynamics that come from not having the prop cannon

[karmic drum]

Look... given the developmental mess bz was. And the absolute bullshit yhey faced from Krafton at the time... I'm willing to look past that

[untold kiln]

A predator that tracks you forever isn’t behaving like wildlife. It’s behaving like a homing missile.
Found this on a Stream review and mood

[karmic drum]

I'm sure they also wanted to do so in bz

[karmic drum]

Persistence hunters are a thing. Gamers are just used to ai's having pathfinding behaviors that rely on traditionally smaller aggro ranges.

That said... it could likely be tweaked some.

[untold kiln]

• You cannot play the game on more than one device without purchasing additional licenses
  What the fuck? That's not how Steam works

[trail ether]

i felt the same way

[karmic drum]

We've also gotta give them a minute. The ai could be overtuned. The flares might not be working right.

Criticism is valid

[untold kiln]

For sure, I'm willing to give them time, it's initial EA release, after all

[karmic drum]

But this, isn't anywhere near constructive

[karmic drum]

It's just pointless and mean

[karmic drum]

This is almost certainly a user error

[trail ether]

because gamers are allergic to games not being tailored for them personally and what the majority of gamers want is testosterone poisoning; they want a gunplay-filled hero fantasy

[karmic drum]

I'd wager money that they're trying to play one license on multiple devices at the same time

I hate power fantasy. It pays no respect to the heroes journey as a concept

[untold kiln]

I'mma read the SN2 ToS rq myself

[karmic drum]

It's just a dopamine poisoning incline of progressively less effective instances of "reward"

[untold kiln]

Subject to your agreement and compliance with these Terms, the Company and, as applicable, its licensors grant to you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable, non-transferable, non-sublicensable right to download, install and use one (1) copy of the Game on one (1) computer, console, mobile or similar device now known or hereafter devised (each, a "Device") at any given time solely for your personal use (the "License").
Yup, Krafton(I hope, and not UW) is smoking something good if they don't realize that that's not how Steam works

Literally the first sentence of the ToS

[karmic drum]

What in the Sony....

[untold kiln]

You may also terminate the License at any time by uninstalling the Game Software from your Devices (including any archival copies).
That's extremely weird and also bullshit, that's two bad/weird things and I just finished the first paragraph

[karmic drum]

Someone needs to bring this to steams attention

[untold kiln]

I have no doubt that plenty of people have already

[karmic drum]

I'm sorry... but I'm not paying for a one time use license....

[karmic drum]

By talos krafton is just going to be sued again

[untold kiln]

If uninstalling the game somehow magically means I can't reinstall it and continue to play it, I will not only happily pirate SN2, but will start advocating for other people to do the same unless/until this bullshit ToS is changed

I sincerely hope that this is due to Krafton and not UW

Any Gameplay Video must include the following prominent disclaimer either at the beginning of the Video or, if live-streaming, near the Video in a visible font: "This video is subject to the Game's Terms of Service and was not endorsed or sponsored by KRAFTON, Inc."
Good fucking luck with this, lol. lmao even

[unreal flame]

generic EULAslop, it means actually nothing

[untold kiln]

I'm sure, that doesn't mean it isn't stupid

[unreal flame]

it's stupid and industry standard (even more stupid)

[karmic drum]

Oh, thank god...

I was actually concerned for a moment

[untold kiln]

The part where Krafton claims ownership of any and all mods is also annoying, but not unprecedented. Paradox does the same thing with Stellaris mods, for example

Whether or not that's enforceable? Fuck if I know, I would argue no

s) exploit errors and bugs found while playing the Game, the Documentation or using the Services;
Are they really telling you that using/abusing bugs is against ToS??

[karmic drum]

It's a bunch of Jargan that's not ever going to hold up on any manner of court

[untold kiln]

Yup

z) use someone else's Account (or any other platform account) to access the Game, the Documentation or Services;
Lol, lmao even

36 bullet points of things we're prohibited from doing, sheeesh

[trail plinth]

I feel like the no-kill stance is more in-line with how you're supposed to play the games. The first game, you're trying to survive and don't have any weapons, but you're also trying to more or less save the planet from eco-disaster via the Khaara. Killing every possible predator would contribute to causing an eco-disaster, and is generally not really supposed to be intended, but people see things they don't like in games and want to remove them. Which is why I'm a fan of some of the things Reika adds that act as ways to 'deter' most predators, or at least render them less of a/no threat

I'll never really understand the obsession a lot of players have with killing the fauna tbh

[trail ether]

you should see the shit people post in /r/elitedangerous

[untold kiln]

I have zero issues with being unable to kill the fauna, as long as there's other, more creative ways of deterring them from dogpiling you at every possible opportunity

[trail ether]

daily there is some guy bitching about not being able to singlehandedly shape the galaxy

[trail plinth]

Exactly yeah

You don't need to kill something to get it to leave you alone

[trail ether]

and then getting irate when told "it is not that kind of game where you are The Main Character"

[karmic drum]

I think I'd rather stick my hand in a hungry hippo's mount

[trail ether]

it makes more sense when you remove "the fauna" frmo your comment

[trail plinth]

There's gotta be a line somewhere between player opinions mattering and dev opinions mattering. Ultimately the devs are the ones making the product, and players buy/use the product, and each one should have some amount of sway, but there has to be a line where player opinions shouldn't override that of the devs

[untold kiln]

It's funny how they lay down the law in regards to you signing over ownership of any and all SN2 mods to Krafton, yet in the very next paragraph or two, turn around and say this

• The Company does not commit to any monitoring or supervision of Player-Created Content.
  How the hell would you enforce your own rules if you're explicitly saying you won't be monitoring what you're "stealing" from your own players?

[karmic drum]

The sonic resonator is supposed to be able to stun and repel fauna. But it doesn't quite seem to do that at the moment

[untold kiln]

It takes too long to charge up to really be useful for that anyway

[trail plinth]

"your mods are mine, but I'm not gonna look at any of them"

[karmic drum]

And that point only exists between the devs, and players who give respectful, constructive, and open to criticism feedback.

Which unfortunately... is not the greater sum of players

[trail plinth]

Yeah, that's a fair way to put it. As long as there's mutual respect between players and devs

[karmic drum]

Un-fucking-fortunately... the average consumer is far more prone to believing that their opinion is objectively right, waving around the money they spent (or didn't spend) and using social pressure brought about by the EVER so wonderful invention of social media... to pressure and bully the devs in mass into abandoning THEIR ideals for THEIR game. So that a bunch of intellectually half cooked hag fish can get what they want.

[trail plinth]

That's definitely a way of putting it but I don't disagree with you lmao

I feel like this is even moreso the case for mod devs, where they more or less do it for free, and yet people feel that they are entitled to determining the direction the mod goes in, often times even moreso than the dev(s) themselves

[untold kiln]

I find it hilarious that there's a clause in the ToS where they claim that all sales are final "except as required/permitted by a third-party platform's refund policy" when the only 3 stores they sell on all have fully functional refund policies

[karmic drum]

That came from the fucking depths of my pshyce like I can't remember the last time I sounded that viscerally angry about something

[karmic drum]

Oh don't even get me fucking started on that atrocity 😭 😭 😭

[unreal flame]

the 'hero's journey' is itself kind of reductive

[karmic drum]

I won't disagree

It is

But in levels of comparative relativity

It holds an extra iota of substance over the flat power fantasy

[trail plinth]

lmfaoooo yeah I more or less know where you're coming from, I've seen a lot of this shit first-hand

[unreal flame]

power fantasy is even more reductive, yes

[trail plinth]

There was a point where the devs of Slay the Spire 2 had made changes that they put onto a fucking beta branch of the game, and people disliked the changes so much that they review-bombed the game on steam--is my understanding of the situation at least

[karmic drum]

Neither are a good option. But good luck getting the average Joe to warm up go the better options like what C2C has going.

[karmic drum]

Oh yea, I remember hearing about that

[unreal flame]

people who want to Always Win Always are a blight

[karmic drum]

"Getting over it" was legitimately developed to hurt these people

And the dev is in no way subtle about that fact

[trail ether]

it does but not reliably

it 100% deters them

but they go a short distance away and immediately lock back on

[trail ether]

THIS

[unreal flame]

it needs to be a stronger fuck off signal to specifically the ||sitaray||

[trail ether]

you remember my server XD

[karmic drum]

Yea, I also suspect the AI of being overtuned

[untold kiln]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1962700/discussions/0/844006002571355045/ Found a good thread that explains all the jargon for those of us without law degrees

[trail ether]

and for that matter...
https://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/wl5oae/curseforge_revenue_and_history/ijs6ya6/

and my reply https://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/wl5oae/curseforge_revenue_and_history/ijtqnmq/

this shit is why i am so leery of FOSS "ideology"

because 99% of the time i see it advocated it is for this exact "i want to be able to replace you, because you should work for ME"

[untold kiln]

Oh boy, I remember the days of having to click adfly links to download MC mods lol

[trail plinth]

0.6 hours after release?

[untold kiln]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1962700/Subnautica_2/ Here's the link to the review itself

Steam

Subnautica 2

Subnautica 2 is an underwater survival adventure game set on an all-new alien world. It is the next chapter in the Subnautica universe, developed by Unknown Worlds.

Driven from your home by ongoing conflict, Alterra offers you the chance at a new life. But as the colony ship CICADA shepherds you and your fellow Pioneers to your new home, som…

Price

$29.99

Recommendations

40578

uh

https://steamcommunity.com/id/Laharls_Therapist/recommended/1962700

Here

0.9 hours total played

[untold kiln]

Oh cool, I can save in the Aurora 😄

Thank you

Huh, after fixing the drive core, I can no longer save inside the Aurora. Weird

I'm going to assume that the fact I was able to save at all inside the Aurora was a bug

A very welcome one, though 😄

I wasn't expecting the ||Seamoth Depth Module|| to explode in my face, I'm glad I wasn't already near death 🙁

Wait, how am I supposed to get that blueprint now??

Eh, probably a modded databox

[karmic drum]

Something like that

[untold kiln]

I look forward to finding it!

I died to a falling fireball when attempting to leave the Aurora lol

At least this means I don't have to get exploded again XD

[untold kiln]

Ok it's not specifically after the drive core being fixed, it's a few breaches repaired prior to finishing fixing it

odd

[tiny wagon]

Guys I’m so subnautica pilled

[tiny wagon]

Christ I didn’t know it was that bad

[untold kiln]

Hold on, read this@tiny wagon

[tiny wagon]

30 dollars on SN2 or 2K on a new diving BCD

hm

[trail plinth]

the comments are going nuts in both the review criticism and the review itself 😭

[tiny wagon]

^

OP tries to separate Krafton and UWE without admitting that UWE is still a subsidiary of Krafton

[trail ether]

i do not want this channel being used to debate this issue

[untold kiln]

What's this button do?

It's at the top right corner of my inventory

[trail ether]

well among other things, not be in that position, normally

are you using an inventory size changing mod

but for a more direct functional answer, this is in the PDA

[untold kiln]

yes

Yes it's in the PDA

When I clicked on it, it just said "Are you sure you want to do this?" naturally I clicked no cuz I have no idea what it does

I'm assuming it just kills me or something

This is new! 😄

[trail ether]

and you wonder why i tell people not to use these mods

[untold kiln]

I assume it normally has a label then lol

Oh no, lifepod 15

Seamoth acquired! 😄

Databox broke 🙁

Can't fix it, it's stuck at 2-3%

I'll just reload and hope that fixes it

[karmic drum]

Not a bug

[untold kiln]

oh

[karmic drum]

Your battery isn't strong enough

[untold kiln]

ohhh

ty

Welp, the bone sharks decided to eat my Seamoth. At least it's not expensive to make ._.

[karmic drum]

Np. Can't say anymore than that

[karmic drum]

The fucking bane of my existence. Sand sharks.....

[untold kiln]

I'm aware of what battery I need lol

[karmic drum]

👍

[untold kiln]

But ty 😄

[karmic drum]

Yup, resources are bountiful. And in the event that you desperately need metals. Can always camp a thermal vent

[untold kiln]

You can get metals from thermal vents? That's new

[karmic drum]

I tried to automate one of those once. But there's no way to automatically filter out the dead fish

[karmic drum]

Yea, it's part of eco ocean

[untold kiln]

At least I got some rubies and 3/4 fragments of the ||bioprocessor||, so I still got some goodies 😄

[karmic drum]

||bioprocessor my beloved||

[untold kiln]

DeathRun makes them about 3x worse

[karmic drum]

Won't ever catch me playing that mod. Don't agree with it's gameplay loops on a fundamental level

[untold kiln]

Fair! I usually play at near-maximum difficulty, but given what C2C requires, I have to disable most of its functions. I never play with the Bends/nitrogen function enabled, that's just not fun

I'll usually play with alternate crafting recipes, increased scan requirements, and the random life pod

Plus the unbreathable air

This time around I forgot to turn on the unbreathable air, and I don't mind XD

[karmic drum]

The most I can tolerate is C2C on hard mode lol

[untold kiln]

I glanced at what the C2C page says about hard mode, and never

I would never x'D

[karmic drum]

Mostly because I suck at managing power generation. And I have comically bad luck with the persistent subnautica that causes all your generators to stop working and your base to slowly leak power unless you rebuild them all 💀

[untold kiln]

Huh, I've never noticed that bug

Then again, I always play with DeepEngine, which means that power is free

And in large quantities

[karmic drum]

I think it may only effect vanilla generators

[untold kiln]

Possibly

Instead, every time I reload, my power buffers are empty

[karmic drum]

Because it happened in my fucking living large playthrough yesterday...

I thought it was only a legacy bug

😭

[untold kiln]

RIP

[untold kiln]

I don't understand what you mean here, can you explain a bit more? Do you mean that there's a PDA log about it, or what?

[still drum]

now that this port has been out for a while has anyone tested to show that it is in a decently playable state? i want to do a playthrough with the mod but i dont want to deal with legacy and all that

[karmic drum]

I can't speak on anything. But if you are playing it. Then you're really doing it to help with testing and moving up the potential timeline for a 2.0 release in the future

[trail ether]

not to mention

one, everyone waiting around for others to test it before they try it themselves, ie everyone just waiting for it to be proven good by some nebulous "other people" will ensure it never gets validated

two, it has been here a week

how the hell is that "a while" for a mod the size of C2C

[karmic drum]

I hadn't seen it until now. But I will definitely do a run to snuff out what bugs I can when I can make some time.

[still drum]

It has been a very long week for me so time kinda felt weird

[unreal flame]

In a log, I believe

[untold kiln]

ty

This morale system I've heard about - I assume it's Survival Mode only? I don't see anything about it in Freedom Mode

[karmic drum]

It's in both I believe

[untold kiln]

Oh. Where do I find info about the morale system in-game?

[karmic drum]

All I can say. Is try to do what ever you can to "keep yourself comfortable as it were"

[still drum]

okay so im not super familiar with mods of this scale so uhhhhhh do i put all the files in the bepinex plugins folder or put them in a different folder?

[karmic drum]

Riley has an emotional state and you've gotta maintain it

[untold kiln]

QMods

[karmic drum]

Qmods

[untold kiln]

Ok sure, but is there a meter or something?

[karmic drum]

Yes

There is

[still drum]

for the 2.0 port?

[untold kiln]

Cuz I ain't got one

[karmic drum]

Oh no, for that Beniplex/pugins

[still drum]

okay lets see what i did wrong

[karmic drum]

Oooh, maybe it isn't in freedom then

[untold kiln]

Works for me, I hope Freedom Mode doesn't break anything in C2C

[still drum]

and this is why i use vortex lol

[untold kiln]

I haven't actually been to the Grand Reef, but good to know I can find ||bioprocessor|| fragments there lol

I swam over it on my way to the floating island

[karmic drum]

Yea, a lot of things aren't in just one biome

[untold kiln]

Speaking of which, how does C2C handle veteran players already knowing where stuff like the floating island and mountain island are? Are any flags in those sorts of important locations prone to breaking, or what?

[karmic drum]

||though I don't remember there being fragments in the reef above 400m||

[karmic drum]

No no, those are safe

[untold kiln]

I assumed as much, but figured I'd confirm

I miss vanilla medkits 🙁

[karmic drum]

I head straight to the degasi island first thing to get the multipurpose room

[untold kiln]

I wait to head to the floating island until after I have the seaglide

[still drum]

am i missing any of the mods? (ignore all the ones other than the necessities for this one those are all disabled currently)

[untold kiln]

Without C2C on, it's mostly because by the time I get the seaglide, RPG Framework has made me fast enough to access the deep Degasi base without dying, but with C2C on, it was mostly just to cut down on travel time lol

I tried De Extinction once and didn't enjoy it

[karmic drum]

You might have too many 😭

[untold kiln]

Mostly cuz the Gulper Leviathan is invulnerable and stunlocked my Seamoth to death

[still drum]

like half of them are disabled at any given time lol

[untold kiln]

Or at least, it was at the time

"VF Drill Arm"?

[still drum]

drill arm for vf stuff like the crush

vf is vehicle framework

[untold kiln]

oh cool

[still drum]

its mostly just there because i found attatching drills to the beluga to be really funny

[tiny wagon]

I have slot extender on for seamoth arms cause I heard it’s got compat but I kinda have to consciously remind myself to not put more than 4 upgrades on

I like keeping it in line frankly

[still drum]

i like having more upgrades

its not balanced but its really funny

[tiny wagon]

Truth

buuuut I’ve been having fun with the base experience of C2C and having fcs on should extend the lifespan I’d say

[untold kiln]

C2C doesn't load if you have Seamoth Arms, though?

[still drum]

well that explains a lot

TO VORTEX

[tiny wagon]

No it d

It does

Huh?

I have my morale bars and the arms are enabled

[untold kiln]

I mean it'll tell you, you get a big red box saying "SeamothArms and C2C are incompatible and can not load" or something like that

weird

[tiny wagon]

The hell

[untold kiln]

Clearly I'm running on outdated info then

[tiny wagon]

you might have a different version or something

when I load the game the only warning is from uhh

Slot extender

[untold kiln]

Well, the last time I played C2C was early-mid 2025

lol I get half a dozen warnings

[still drum]

okay what the hell am i doing wrong

wait i forgot to check if bepinex needs an update

[untold kiln]

If you're trying to load C2C in SN2.0, I can't help you, I've never played any version of SN1 other than legacy

God, there's so many purple tablet fragments now

Haaaaaa~1

[tiny wagon]

Waiting for 2.0 so I can have large rooms for the 💗 aesthetic 💗

[tiny wagon]

oh yeah bro

You’re gonna be there for a while

I’m only good because I memorized the fragments

But ahh

4 hours of running around the island

[untold kiln]

I will die if I stay here too much longer, I just wanted the battery

SadOato

[still drum]

is that c2c or deathrun

[untold kiln]

Both!

[still drum]

have you lost it

[untold kiln]

DogeKek

[still drum]

im more surprised it didnt implode lo

[untold kiln]

I have to turn off the changed Deathrun recipes and the Deathrun crush depth mechanic otherwise it breaks C2C, and I also don't play with the Bends turned on

Ok made it out of the mountain, headed home to drop my inventory and craft 5 medkits

Honestly at this point I could just remove Deathrun, it has basically no effect on my run anymore now that I've fixed the Aurora's drive core

[still drum]

did bro not enable creature aggression

if no enable it to the max

[untold kiln]

Uh

They're amped up, but not as bad as I usually set them to

Almost everything's on default

I just wanted to hop in and go lol

Normally I max out the settings(minus the Bends)

Holy shit, I can save in the Seamoth???

I appreciate the reminder, but I couldn't lmao

[untold kiln]

Seamoth OP pls nerf

[tiny wagon]

YOU CAN???

I HAVENT BEEN ABLE TO