SeaToSea

[trail ether]

but that explains how you knew about the ||redacted|| before actually going there

congratulations on ruining the surprise/discovery

along with presumably many other times

besides that wiki suffers not only from the game of telephone but from just being outdated as well

[faint summit]

The void spikes were spoiled by someone from this discord.

I'm not going to say who.

[trail ether]

cough

[faint summit]

I looked at the wiki for a short time to find out how to get the mk1 depth module but of course there was nothing about it there.

If it's any consolation, I have no idea what the biome looks like.

So there's that at least.

[trail ether]

good

[trail plinth]

In vanilla arent all the depth modules unlocked with the seamoth?

[faint summit]

Also have no idea what fauna there are, but I have to assume there are ||ghosties||.

[trail plinth]

Or at least with each respective vehicle

[faint summit]

Yes

[trail plinth]

Theres definitely some fun things

[faint summit]

Don't say that

[trail plinth]

Too late

[worldly valve]

||i think its kinda chill down there. Dark as fuck tho. Depending on your monitor seeing shit is hard. My first time down there i couldnt see anything. But i have a good monitor now and its all easy to see but still dark ||

[faint summit]

I'm bringing a legion of ampeels with me, they will keep the evil at bay.

[trail plinth]

||mmmm spicy plankton||

[faint summit]

I have all the resources to build a stasis rifle except ||avolite|| because the sunbeam debris still won't spawn (yes I built a scanner room for it).

I hate to do it but I may just have to spawn it in manually.

No, do not tell me that means what I think it means.

[trail plinth]

oh, it does say that doesn't it

[trail plinth]

I'm gonna ask a question that's probably been asked plenty of times but I gotta ask just in case: ||are you scanning specifically for sunbeam debris and going to the location where it's supposed to spawn (and then it doesn't spawn even after several seconds), or is the option not there at all||

and also ||did the sunbeam explode in your save||

[faint summit]

I scan for it and then go there and search every locations it indicates to me.

And yes, it of course has.

[trail plinth]

hm, okay yeah I got nothing then

I'd imagine there might be something to indicate what's going on in the runtime editor but I wouldn't recommend playing around with that unless you know exactly what you're doing, or if you have reika guiding you along like I did

[errant cairn]

And why not? I enjoy the technical inner workings of things I know and love.

(That's if I know them)

[trail plinth]

basically if you're trying to play it in an unintended way, prepare for unintended consequences kind of thing

[karmic drum]

As I am constantly saying...

Play stupid games

Win stupid prizes

[errant cairn]

What if I already experienced the non-technical side?

[trail plinth]

I don't generally think there's as much of an 'intended' way of playing as there is just 'unintended' ways of playing that go outside of the natural experience. Things like following guides and wikis instead of figuring things out yourself, or looking at sourcecode in order to figure things out instead of just playing the game and exploring. Avoiding the use of exploits, or 'unintended mechanics', stuff like htat

[errant cairn]

As I mentioned here

[errant cairn]

I did it cause I was pissed at morale okay? 😭

[trail plinth]

If you've already looked at the sourcecode, you may have spoiled a lot of things you would otherwise experience in-game, but that also doesn't have to be where you base your means of exploring and learning of the game from either

You can look through the sourcecode and still have a relatively untainted experience of the game depending on what you looked through

In a word, the "unintended" way of playing c2c is metagaming

Or minmaxing, take your pick

ie trying to get the biggest bang for as little buck as possible

[errant cairn]

My definition of minmaxing is doing literally everything while exploring

[trail plinth]

That's more just multitasking

or being efficient

[errant cairn]

Hm. Okay

[trail plinth]

minmaxing is taking it to more of an extreme. Think speedrunning techniques

[errant cairn]

True

[trail plinth]

I think metagaming would fit better then, since there are some things that aren't necessarily minmaxing but are still just using outside knowledge, exploits, unintended mechanics, etc in gameplay, which will result in anything from missing sometihng important that you were meant to find/discover while doing something, or just completely breaking the progression

[errant cairn]

I do see her point about not knowing technical information about where you're going to go as long as it's all just fun and games

Where you can retry

If you don't succeed (in SN's case, die)

[trail plinth]

Metagaming also discourages thinking outside the box, or problem solving in novel ways beyond 'what the best way usually is'. If you're basically just following some pre-determined path meant for vanilla play, you're gonna miss stuff in c2c. Sure something like the super seaglide may not have a lot of implications if you just want to get around the map easier, but it can break progression by getting you to something you're not supposed to be able to get to yet. Even moreso with multiple oxygen tanks--if progression is balanced around having 1 oxygen tank, then having spare ones to swap to will inherently break it, because there's not really a middle ground between 1 and 2 oxygen tanks, and anything that relies on gating something behind 'increased oxygen consumption' suddenly becomes available before it normally would have been

[errant cairn]

Admittedly the only reason I would use ssg anymore is if I'm in a bind like I was when I said I was "forced to warp back" (i was low morale, hunger, and water)

[karmic drum]

Thank you. Exactly what I always fail to say

[trail plinth]

I think the only time a death was painful, despite saving right before attempting the thing that led to my death, was ||my first trip to the void||. And the only reason it was painful is because of how difficult it is to get there and back safely

[errant cairn]

Well, fair, but you still gained knowledge making your next attempt easier. I don't encourage save scumming

[trail plinth]

I do get that, and it may just be a case of perspective where I don't find much value in saving however much time it takes to get back to a location in a seamoth vs a super seaglide, but then someone else may find that time loss more painful

[errant cairn]

I just don't like being stuck in a death loop. In that case, SSG is like twice as fast as the moth even with 0 morale

[trail plinth]

Ah it wasn't ||my first trip to the void||, it was actually ||my second trip to the void spikes||, my mistake. The first trip I did some stupid stuff and died, and my second attempt was a lot smoother, but I just got unlucky a few times in a row and as a result died. I probably could have done better in that attempt but it was painful nonetheless due to the amount of time it takes for each attempt

[errant cairn]

Ah

[trail plinth]

That's understandable yeah. I don't tihnk I've ever been stuck in a death loop honestly, so I can't really say one way or another how I would have done something differently

[errant cairn]

I've been stuck in one like 2-5 times while playing C2C. I don't remember exactly

[trail plinth]

Also generally with c2c's "only save in safe places" mechanic, wouldn't that not be possible? Outside of like, really niche situations

[errant cairn]

Reika should add a check for main base distance and low morale (have the player set a main base)

Specifically that case

[trail plinth]

What would that do? Do you not put crops in your outposts?

[errant cairn]

Not at the time

[trail plinth]

Also there are still fish outside

[errant cairn]

No thermo blade iirc, water would kill me eventually

[trail plinth]

no fabricator either?

[errant cairn]

Yup

Iirc

[trail plinth]

what kinda outposts are you making lmao

[errant cairn]

Trying to make*

[trail plinth]

ah

[errant cairn]

A hand held fabricator would be fun as hell but I'm not sure how Reika would balance it

[trail plinth]

I mean depending where you are, you could still sustain yourself a little bit off of wild plantlife

[errant cairn]

I would love an all in one hand held fabricator but idk how to make it or balance it

[trail plinth]

long enough to get to your lifepod at least

[errant cairn]

Mountains, also not quick enough to find gel sacks

[trail plinth]

And it ultimatley boils down to preparation

[errant cairn]

Well ig kelp exists

Didn't think about that while playing

[trail plinth]

I also had a base there, and I actually almost died of dehydration on my way back to base. I just ||took some samples of the nearby koosh bulbs to refill a bit||

[errant cairn]

Isn't that harmful to the player?

Extremely?

[trail plinth]

Nope

Don't think so anyway

[errant cairn]

Bulb zone bush???

[trail plinth]

yeah

[errant cairn]

They are now

[trail plinth]

oop

[errant cairn]

They have been for like 3 months

[trail plinth]

I might be thinking of an older run then

[errant cairn]

Maybe

[trail plinth]

There was a point in this run where reika saw me nearly starving to death and just told me "you know you have a thermoblade right"

[errant cairn]

[trail plinth]

either way, if you have a base in the mountains area....the mountain island also has sustenance

[errant cairn]

The underwater caves sure, bur I don't think water but certainly the thing below a ||lifepod|| there

[trail plinth]

whar

I'm talking about the trees

bulbo trees

[errant cairn]

??? There are trees there that are edible??!

[trail plinth]

you knife em and you get a sample to shove in your face

high water content

this is vanilla stuff lmao

[errant cairn]

I don't think so

I don't remember that in 2.0

[trail plinth]

this is legacy too

[errant cairn]

Why would they remove a feature from legacy in 2.0?

[trail plinth]

this is from the fandom wiki

[karmic drum]

It's in 2.0 as well

You just never bothered to try the trees

[worldly valve]

My first file got into an endless death loop in the river

To escape it i had to unequip my liquid breathing tank whioe yhr exreen was black

Since my base was broken

But this tied into when i discovered using 2 liquod tanks is the worst decision one can make in the game

So i had no liquid reserves at all

So then i had 10 secodns of air until death

I had to get into a locket, get out the titanium, and get to my fabricator

Took many deaths but did succeed

Made small air tank

Refilled air in scanner room

I think i maye have repaired base around now

Tho that doesnt matter

I considered unmaking my base, but i opted to make a new base

Needed to upgrade my airtank a little, i thini i managed to get it to ultra hogh, which gives 10ish seconds to build inside the river (ballpark)

Buiot it all

Unmade it all

Teleported to pod

[worldly valve]

You didnt know about bulbo trees🥲

[trail plinth]

So wait, in order to get into an endless death loop in the lost river, you made 2 liquid breathing tanks, went into the lost river, made a base and swapped liquid breathing tanks at some point, then managed to get into your base without realizing you lost some amount of breathing fluid, and then saved?

And your base was broken somehow?

or was all of this before the saving changes, where you can only save in safe locations

[trail ether]

I think this is just a handwave for the creature Collider issues SN has

which are most pronounced with long creatures

[trail ether]

in a lesser part because it "ruins the magic", which matters a hell of a lot for a game like SN

but much more significantly it leads you to metagaming, playing to implementation, often in a borderline cheating way, with zero acknowledgement and likely little awareness of the intended, far superior, experience

[trail ether]

if you already completed a playthrough that is different - then it is okay to "look under the hood"

but I would NEVER condone doing that any earlier, and never EVER even think of doing such a thing like that muself

[trail ether]

minmaxing means playing in a very specific way to get maximum result for minimum effort

i see you are also in the SF and factorio servers so I will use an example

imagine a player who eschews the obvious intended gameplay for stuff like tons of handcrafting, or ignoring entire sections of the techtree because they are not strictly necessary for the end goal, or building exactly what they need - and not one belt more - to achieve completion, often with said needs having been calculated by some external calculator application

@trail plinth this is distinct from metagaming

metagaming is leveraging implementation, stuff like "well I know that this system is incapable of detecting the difference between X and Y, and since Y is easier, I will do it, even though X is the natural and obviously intended way and noone would think to Y without having explicitly seen that the code cannot tell the difference"

or "I see that with this status effect active every third enemy you kill has a chance of doubled drops, so I will make a point of following a "weak and useless, weak and usless, highly lucrative, repeat" pattern when farming"

[errant cairn]

Ah okay. I'm learning calculus if math is any helpful of an example (derivatives i'm learning)

[worldly valve]

Well before changes

[trail ether]

or "I know the NPC AI in this game can only track one target at a time, so every time i aggro everyone for stealing i just make sure to spawn a monster to clear their aggro"

[errant cairn]

And I'm going to agree with you there

[barren oar]

except costs scale up way too fast for handcrafting to be any player's choice past red science and many (vital) crafts aren't even handcraftable

the other two points are jusr efficiency lol

[trail ether]

and the "best" way is always mechanically following some proscripted path, involving no real "engagement" on your part

[barren oar]

the more efficient the factory, the better

e.g. factory geared towards a specific purpose

[trail ether]

there is no such concept

[errant cairn]

Sounds like me with my mods (i get that it's different, and my mods are 300x simpler, but it still applies because I cannot experience what the player experience when playing mod)

[errant cairn]

Ah okay then

[worldly valve]

I may have even refilled the tanks😂. I was confused that it felt so short but thought maybe the efficiency modifer mighta been it

[trail ether]

no they were

they used to hurt

[barren oar]

if your goal is to launch the rocket... then any normal player is going to try launch the rocket, any means necessary

[trail ether]

now they are gooey and gross

yes that means exactly what it sounds like it means

[errant cairn]

Oh peak!

That latter message is not so peak

[faint summit]

So the tidbit about ||being able to use automated mining equipment on the dunes meteorite||. Is that an FCS thing or can you use the rock crusher on it?

[trail ether]

or, if you were in a cove tree base and had only 40 seconds left of fluid in your liquid breathing system

[trail ether]

relevance?

[trail ether]

you say that

but that is the meta everyone tells you to do for DSP with high Dark Fog settings

[barren oar]

dsp?

[trail ether]

and it is so pervasive in Factorio itself that I added something to one of my mods to encourage actually automating that shit

[errant cairn]

Eh I wondered if there was a math example that fit what was being talked about

[trail ether]

namely I split several recipes into a handcrafted and automated version

[barren oar]

whats dark fog, also?

[errant cairn]

But none ig

[trail ether]

that is FCS

I overrode their miner in C2C

for most of the map it is limited, in both total yield and drop table

but on the two AR motherlodes it gets its drop table replaced with theirs, and is infinite

[barren oar]

handcrafting really ive only seen viable in extreme challenge runs, like rampant death world with max bases and lowest visibility, or modpacks like seablock until you get a proper factory going like 93 hours in

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/3e0cmTL.jpg

from when I was developing it in dec 2023

[errant cairn]

Or in base vanilla (istg i spent less time automating than crafting my first run)

[barren oar]

former because you really cant waste any time on setting up the industry, latter because you really dont have the resources for setting up the industry

[errant cairn]

Ah. Older runtime editor?

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/p5FH5Yx.jpg

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/yMOuWXT.jpeg

aggressive rogue von neumann machines

they fill much the same gameplay role as biters

[barren oar]

ah... i was thinking it was some factorio jargon I hadn't picked up on yet

i see

[errant cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/freddy-fazbear-freddy-faz-bear-eye-popping-fnaf-gif-25055659

[trail ether]

what?

[errant cairn]

Looks different than current runtime editor (black vs blue at least on 2.0)

[barren oar]

blue is the subnautica custom version

[errant cairn]

Ohhhhhh Dyson Sphere Program!

[barren oar]

you can still use the original in 2.0, which is gray

[errant cairn]

Oh ok

[barren oar]

and personally i like it more too, but the subnautica vers helps for materials in particular

[errant cairn]

Same. Blue is just better

[barren oar]

no, gray is

[errant cairn]

Nuh uh

[barren oar]

objective fact sorry

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/h0pJVWl.png https://i.imgur.com/cyvxNFu.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/iAdkPcb.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/3Idx37X.jpeg

[errant cairn]

Irrelevant convo. Argument invalidated

[errant cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/fnaf-five-nights-at-freddy's-gif-4059222196466761933

[barren oar]

this dsp thing looks kinda interesting i should check it out sometime

[errant cairn]

Dyson Sphere Program on steam, check it out its peak

[barren oar]

but are enemy waves forced

in other words can you turn them off like biters

[trail ether]

assuming DF is enabled at all, and its AI is not set to passive - mostly

it gains "threat" over time, in correlation to power consumption

when threat reaches 100%, it launches an attack wave

if you ever played FCE it is like that

[barren oar]

because honestly biters stink ass and factorio is only fun without them

[barren oar]

caaaaant say ive heard of that, either

[errant cairn]

Nuh uh. Making over a full box of lasers was peak

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/mnBQ1yl.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/Fs8Jiz3.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/S67Ib0M.jpeg

a logistics game that takes a muhc more literal interpretation of tower defence

and one that has a lot of...rough spots, though it is overall still enjoyable enough, especially with a little modding

and its biome/exploration system is nice

you know the new caves update for MC

[errant cairn]

Pov: Reika has played more games than you have Hours in Factorio

[barren oar]

"ore thief" what lol

[trail ether]

its caves have always been like that

but with a whole series of biome layers

[barren oar]

oh eugh exploration in my factory game

[trail ether]

cave image https://i.imgur.com/SQh5Tn6.jpeg

[barren oar]

the only exploration should be finding new veins to exploit

[errant cairn]

Oh nvm I have 109 hours in factorio

[trail ether]

one such biome layer https://i.imgur.com/BM8HGdw.jpeg

namely toxic

[barren oar]

if the planet's atmosphere isn't 90% carbon dioxide by the time you're off the planet you're doing something wrong

[trail ether]

grabs ore from your inventory and puts it on logistics

i have no idea why the hint system is so pushy about building one

but @trail plinth knows it is a running joke

[barren oar]

ah huh

[errant cairn]

Basically the ||abyssal stalkers|| with ||platinum||

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/RY9OMKI.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/FHR5Zt7.jpeg

[barren oar]

i was thinking it'd be like the equivalent of an ore miner

[errant cairn]

Have you played over 109 games?

[trail ether]

yes

[barren oar]

or some sort of upgrade which extracts ore from local creatures you can keep and feed, maybe

slime rancher but they poop out iron

[errant cairn]

Exactly how many games have you played?

[trail ether]

the local fauna is limited to passive/minor nuisance, the TD waves, and fuck-you jumpscare worms

which i modded to be not-jumpscare

[barren oar]

hah

that's fair

[trail ether]

these bastards https://i.imgur.com/B2HeOFS.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/l77vw3k.jpeg

they hide in that wavy block

and in vanilla only erupt when you are within a few meters

with a loud sound

i made them always erupt, regardless of distance

demo https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/644778196079738890/1303216964616978474/farworm.mp4?ex=68f27120&is=68f11fa0&hm=d5e92abaf7a7e0aff08fb703f267cfaa8dd9cb927a620fbadeacece88cb3ff93&

includes the sound

not the warble, the loud roar and crashing

oh also never ever criticize FCE in the dev's presence, especially not things like stylistic inconsistency, default unity assets, performance, or overall balance tuning

if you think I take criticism poorly...

[trail ether]

is there a way to check

[errant cairn]

Search on your profile (public page) by least hours

Games by least hours specifically

For reference, heres my top 12

And least 9

(One doesn't count)

I haven't even played the last one

[trail ether]

here, color coded

green is completed and liked, chartreuse is not quite completed, but not really because of complaints (eg SF i just lost steam in my only post-1.0 playthroughs), yellow is "completed, but was ambivalent about", orange is completed and did not like, red is incomplete because I refused to even continue

[trail plinth]

I gotta play through FCE again sometime

[trail ether]

ONI teeters between orange and red

also i realize i forgot to tint BZ - it should be yellow

also this chart does not have MC, which is green

blanks are either too little information, eg tried it for 5 min and never again, not because i was repelled, or stuff like "Game is super incomplete so cannot be given a meaningful rating", like astrometica

[trail ether]

i updated all my mods, and released a bunch of new ones, last december

[trail plinth]

Ooooo very nice

[trail ether]

https://steamcommunity.com/id/ReikaKalseki/myworkshopfiles/?appid=254200

[worldly valve]

Do i incluse the hunsrws of flash gamea or no

[trail ether]

??

this does not show a count

[trail plinth]

Kind of a mix of surprise and non-surprise that you were ambivalent toward Frostpunk. Ill take a guess that the whole 'problems were not apparent until later in the run when they could not be fixed in time' was a big part of that

[pearl pier]

so uhh

[trail plinth]

Which would be about the only grievance id have with the game as well

[pearl pier]

the blood crawler larva isn't spawning

[trail plinth]

Uh oh

[trail ether]

people told me I would hate it

i did not

[pearl pier]

or the brood mothers

[trail plinth]

Are you in the area theyre supposed to spawn in and they didnt show up?

Oh

[trail ether]

it was not as punishing as claimed, nor was it like ONI where you can be in a death spiral for hours before realizing, meaning you wasted that many hours

my main complaint is that the main campaign is too damn rushed

[pearl pier]

I went and explored in creative to see if I was in the right place in my normal world and I was

[trail ether]

not like rushed development but like "you are pushed forward through the story too quickly"

and the whole thing is forced to be over before you even unlock 50% of the techtree and explore more than ~60% of the map

[trail ether]

check the log

[trail plinth]

I think this might be a known issue? Reika mentioned to me ||that I was missing a spot for larvae as well||

[trail ether]

you were missing two

but i made the logic run on each spot independently

instead of only regenning if all of them are missing

[trail plinth]

I think i understand that yeah. I would replay the main campaign using knowledge of past runs in order to do better, and Ive since been able to clear through all the tech before the end of each campaign

[trail ether]

in constrast the FP2 story is take-it-at-your-own pace, where the major story beats only happen after you explicitly trigger them

and as a result I like FP2 a lot more

which i understand is a highly unusual and controversial opinion

[trail plinth]

I think the feeling of being rushed is intentional, due to the pressure of the narrative

Feeling like youre running out of time at every challenge kind of thing

[pearl pier]

How do I pull it up?

[trail ether]

i am sure

but you know what i think of that?

[trail plinth]

Not a fan?

[trail ether]

have a look at another red game on my list

near the bottom

[pearl pier]

Oh wait

The larva spawned in now but not the brood mothers

[trail ether]

where it VERY EXPLICITLY is designed to put you under pressure like that, as part of its story/theme

[pearl pier]

Brood mothers spawned eventually

No clue what is up with that

But having to wait around in an area for something to spawn is odd

[trail plinth]

Honestly not familiar with any of them except from the depths, and only very little familiarity with that. But yeah Im not saying that the intention should mean you should enjoy it, i more meant that it feels that way on purpose rather than as a byproduct of something else, and not everyone is going to appreciate the feeling of being rushed, even for narrative effect

[errant cairn]

no

[trail ether]

hint: THIS GДMЭ ШДS STЯЭSSFЦL ДИD CДИ GФ FЦCK ITSЭLF - THЭ ФИLЧ ШДЧ I ШILL PLДЧ IS ШITH ДИ IИFIИITЭ TIMЭ CHЭДT, ШHICH DФЭS ИФT ЭXIST

[trail plinth]

Weird...I had most of them spawn in when i got in range, so I got no idea

[trail ether]

caps only to sell the text effect

[trail plinth]

Yeah I still dont know which one youre referring to, I only know of a handful of the games youve listed in red, and im not particularly familiar with their gameplay beyond early impressions

Unless its a game which youve shared knowledge of with me through screenshots and such, but if its a game youre particularly not a fan of then I would be even less likely to remember lmao

[unreal flame]

you finished No Man's Sky?

[trail ether]

https://lzerbnaiva.wordpress.com/2019/08/17/papers-please-a-very-stressful-game/

[trail ether]

no

noteven close

wait where is the message where i clarified that a few yellows are "not completed but did not hate"

[trail ether]

i stopped after the first new system

fior three reasons

[unreal flame]

you can definitely work around this to get everything, incidentally. delaying Winterhome as long as possible, maximizing scout techs, multiple workshops...

[trail ether]

one the turorial bugged out and i could not figure out what to do

[errant cairn]

Oh boy! time to see how out of date C2C is for me!

[unreal flame]

yeah the tutorialization is pretty poor

[trail ether]

two i HATE how every system and body is named by previous players and no i cannot abide by landing on Planet McPlanetFace or MrBeanWorld

three the game loop just fails to grab me, like it feels...empty somehow

[unreal flame]

2 might be alleviable by turning off networking, 3 is... kinda valid

[errant cairn]

oh.

o-o-oh.

[unreal flame]

it's a content depth thing, i guess

[trail ether]

example for #2 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/894969165344014388/1411796441675858012/image.png?ex=68f29a65&is=68f148e5&hm=2296fda670772c09cd9d39c4871f5d869d5f900eca7bc7db87ce5887f2ba89fa&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&

it is utterly incompatible with immersion when you fly to a new planet named Fred the fucking cat

[trail ether]

no

I asked on the discord

[unreal flame]

people name real stuff stupid crap too, tbh

[trail ether]

if there was a way to COMPLETELY negate all influence from other players

as if i was the only person who had ever played the game

response: "No why would you want that"

reminds me of one of the reasons i hate death stranding

[unreal flame]

could dive into a black hole

[worldly valve]

hang out there for a min

[errant cairn]

Reika, is there a way to just autodownload and install ur stuff?

[unreal flame]

enough jumps and you should be somewhere with minimal to no player presence, at least

[trail ether]

no

[errant cairn]

aw

could i make a way?

[trail ether]

real appealing prospect when it takes like an hour of fucking around on a planet to get enough fuel to jump once

also

[unreal flame]

i can help with that

[trail ether]

every damn story beat involved a fight to the death

either robot drones or green xenobullshit

[unreal flame]

i can also just like, take you aboard my freighter and jump you somewhere random

[unreal flame]

oh yeah, that

doesn't help that combat is so sucks...

[trail ether]

i am not opposed to an autodownloader in principle, as long as certain criteria are met (and/or problems are not present)

[errant cairn]

also good god c2c is massive in bytes

[trail ether]

assets

[errant cairn]

hm

[unreal flame]

no asset bundle moment

[errant cairn]

real

[unreal flame]

mildly surprised to see slime rancher in 'ambivalent'

i assume that's for aesthetical rather than mechanical reasons

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/WDcnNXD.png

[trail ether]

would not make a diference

[trail ether]

partly, but also the gameplay felt kind of pointless

the gameplay itself was 90% fine

fuck quantum slimes

i threw all the bastards in the ocean

[errant cairn]

name them and ill get some help to make one (most likely only for me, it will end up on my pc anyway)

[trail ether]

having had covid at the time did not make me any more patient

[faint summit]

Why are there ||scary noises 800 m out from the void spikes beacon,|| I'm not unpausing the game : (

[unreal flame]

you mean like how there's not a whole lot of purpose in automation after having 'gotten everything' so to speak?

[errant cairn]

hmmmmmm

[unreal flame]

i don't understand

[errant cairn]

(crash fish)

[unreal flame]

then again i haven't played the original game in years so can't recall what they even do

[trail ether]

the yellow teleporting shits

[unreal flame]

i know

[trail ether]

not much at all, and the story itself was extremely underwhelming

[unreal flame]

i don't recall them being a particular issue when i was ranching them, and i made sure to get every type covered

[trail ether]

though not actively unpleasant like say CP2077

[trail ether]

remind me tomorrow

it is 11pm

[errant cairn]

I don't have an exosuit (see image 1)
Morale is having issues for me (probably the source of my hate for it, when i used it)
And that's all the exceptions even after loading a save

[faint summit]

So the plaform that ||had the pda entry for lifepod 15 vanished along with the platform that held it when I attacked a ghost leviathan with a kniferepeatedly||

[worldly valve]

well thats a new one

tho ive heard stabbing reapers to death is both hard and has some form of punishment

i keep meaning to go stab a few

i just wanna know what hppens

[errant cairn]

U going to sleep then?

(It's probably midnight she might be already asleep)

[trail ether]

no

[trail ether]

these are normal

[errant cairn]

Oh ok

[trail plinth]

oh yeah I know nothing about that game lmao

[faint summit]

I wanna go home, there's no light here, the water is dead. Something killed the water...

[worldly valve]

its not so baaaaad

its chill!

i swearsies

would i lie to you about something spoopy?

[faint summit]

YES

This game is trying to kill me, I got wedged into a wall somehow and could't move, had to eject myself out with the propulsion cannon, of course by now the leviathans are on me, they push the seamoth 10 meters below crush depth, I have to frantically repair my vehicle while it's on 12% and immediately rise above crush depth.

Most dangerous biome and I almost die to SN jank.

SOMETHING JUST GRABBED MY SHIP.

This isn't funny anymore Reika

[worldly valve]

you're right

it's hilarious

[faint summit]

Ok, but how do I leave though.

Nvm

[worldly valve]

you go back>.>

hf

gl

and pray that you see the light of the morning sun?

[faint summit]

I made it out.

What a cool biome, let's never go back there again.

[trail plinth]

Oooh, wonder what that was. ||How deep were you?||

[faint summit]

I don't think I was very deep, might have just hit something.

It didn't seem like a good idea to go deeper.

[trail plinth]

I unironically love the ||void spikes|| and hate it at the same time. I love everything about it, but I hate that I cant really save my progress while Im there, and its extremely dangerous the entire duration im there or trying to go back

[trail plinth]

Perhaps

[faint summit]

Yeah not being able to save or build there kind of hurts.

It seemed like it teleported me when I entered the biome so that's probably why you can't save there.

[trail plinth]

If it were possible to have a function sort of like a quicksave/checkpoint that doesnt overwrite your existing save, but allows you to go back to it if you were to die

Just cause its a huge loss if you end up dying after all that progress there, and its basically a constant pressure of 'you can die at any moment if you slip up'

Which i dont mind the danger, but more just the loss of progress

[faint summit]

I brought enough supplies to build a base and ampeels to power it indefinitely only to find out you couldn't build anything while there.

[barren oar]

is there really something physical in that area?

[trail plinth]

Yeah, i think thats either by design, game limitations, or both

[barren oar]

last i went, it was just the occasional ||electric discharge that leaves you without current at all for the next 15s||

[trail plinth]

:^)

[barren oar]

intriguing

[faint summit]

Perhaps there are things there.

Who knows : )

[trail plinth]

I wont be saying any more

[barren oar]

i know there were plans to have The Thing in The Area but i thought they fell through

or at least, to have it more present than I'd experienced

glad to hear they didn't

the repository contains unused things too (translations, mainly) so i thought the existence of Assets was also left unused

[trail plinth]

Honestly even if there isnt anything physical there, I like to add to the suspense that there might be

[worldly valve]

what you are refering to i believe are correct about

[trail ether]

not "fell through"

on ice because i cannot make models

[barren oar]

ahh...

whats the repository asset contain, then?

[trail ether]

what

[barren oar]

||voidlevi||

what does that contain

if not the model

"asset in the repository" would have been a more clear wording

[trail ether]

oh that is a prefab - supposedly - someone made

but it does not load properly

[barren oar]

huh

interesting

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/5dNSWoK.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7ygNXdX.jpg

[trail plinth]

I love random shiny reflective prisms

It's like, my whole aesthetic

[unreal flame]

close enough welcome back void monster

[barren oar]

lol there probably was an attempt to make it look decent

[unreal flame]

i do know what this is supposed to be

[trail ether]

@unreal flame do you like this one better

i split the scales

color indicates liking - some adjustments frmo the last one - and the overlay indicates finished or not (red patterning is "finished is not really a thing", either because the game is open-ended or just extremely unfinished)

blue is loved, green is quite liked, charteuse is liked, but only weakly, yellow is "it was okay, minor issues", peach is "it was okay but i had some significant issues with it", orange is "i did not like it, i had serious problems", red is "i hate it"

[unreal flame]

good system

No man's sky is technically open ended, but in the same way as any other sandbox game

[trail ether]

also "minor issues" for yellow can include "it was just not that great" rather than an active problem

eg abzu

other than some bits at or near the end i had no real issues

but i did not get much out of it either

[unreal flame]

i'm certainly well aware of the issues you had with outer wilds

it's also almost certainly one of your favorites aesthetically

[trail ether]

outer wilds only barely got a yellow instead of a peach

same for ONI

[unreal flame]

that definitely makes sense

i don't agree per se, but i can make sense of it for both

[pearl pier]

will updating be fine still if its a big update?

[trail ether]

yes

[barren oar]

oh thats an interesting update

how tf did you think that one up

well, it doesnt sound terribly difficult to cheese either

though i cant test any ideas until c2c2.0 is out since im not trying out the sketchy ass depotdownloader

though its open source and probably just calls home to steam's devconsole for what it does

[errant cairn]

Ok which one of you sleeps?

I swear only I have a half decent sleep schedule not just here in the whole damn server

[karmic drum]

I do

Seven hours, same time every night

[trail ether]

I just woke up

but that also means I am now at work

[errant cairn]

i can see that now by searching for your messages

[errant cairn]

does mean i dont get the guidelines for an autodownloader?

[trail ether]

not this exact second

but you will not haveto wait too long

[errant cairn]

👍

[karmic drum]

My energy levels are flat shit cause of my anxiety and double mental disorders

Sleep is important to me

[errant cairn]

K i found the exact dependencies needed for Bag Equipment Legacy to work

Advanced inventory and Customised storage (non-2.0)

[karmic drum]

I'm excited to get back into c2c

I've been really out of it lately. But I'm getting my energy back. And should be able to enjoy the game without having a freak out

[errant cairn]

i dont think my bio processor fragments exist

[karmic drum]

And you checked every location?

[errant cairn]

Dms

[trail ether]

Required Functionality:

• Download of the latest, as of that moment, versions of my mods
• Clear markings that the tool is not my creation, that I do not provide help with it, and that using the tool can provide no guarantees of functionality
• Related to the above, clear marking that if the mods fail to function after downloaded from the tool, a manual download - with either provided instructions or a link to my site - should be tried first, before reporting issues with the mods to me
• The downloaded mod files must come from my official host, not a mirror, local copy, or anything of the sort
• The application must be compatible with at least Windows 10 and Windows 11; any additional platforms are your own perogative

Nice to have:

• Error checking on the downloads; I am willing to make my uploader also upload a CRC/hash of the mod files that your application can compare the downloaded result against, but I cannot help you with the application's CRC/hash logic itself as I do not know how to do that offhand except in java
• Optional install functionality, ie not just downloading the zips but actually putting their content in the correct places in the QMods folder

You are free to do this but I see no value in it:

• You are free to embed a web browser which can view my site within your application, however if you do it must be displayed accurately

Forbidden things:

• The application must not provide a means to download older versions of my mods, nor have an archive (local or remote) of all previously downloaded versions, with the sole exception of it being fine to keep a copy of the immediately previous version for rollback purposes, as long as this copy is deleted/overwritten by subsequent updates
• The application must not "meaningfully" modify the downloaded files. "Meaningfully" meaning changing the actual content of the mod files, such as swapping out textures, applying code patches, adding additional files - of any nature - or deleting anything. "Non-content" changes like unzipping a zip are 100% fine, provided this process is itself "clean"
• If installing, the application must not modify the user's config files, and must take care to leave them unaffected
• Files downloaded by the application must go straight from online host to the user's PC; they may not pass through another machine (for example being downloaded to a server you control, and then distributed from there, or being uploaded to a ZIP unpacking website with the result being redownloaded)
• The application may not imply any ownership or creative influence of the mod files themselves
• The application may not perform any unnecessary and not-functionally-related "parallel process" when downloading my mods (for example simultaneously downloading unrelated files, backing up SN save games, or deleting log files, let alone completely unrelated things like editing user documents)
• The application must not have background-running automated update functionality - all updates must be explicitly initiated by the user
• There can be no monetization scheme within the downloader (even a donate button), as all the downloader is doing is fetching my own content

[trail plinth]

10 hours of sleep here

[trail ether]

it is a lot but most of these are pretty obvious stuff I am spelling out anyway just in case

[errant cairn]

And that's fair

I may use Java or C++ to make the application

[errant cairn]

Also I just need the version that is downloaded vs. the latest version (I'll probably have it check somehow...

[trail ether]

actually I will make a carve-out for the first forbidden item - you can keep a copy of the very next most recent download, ie the one actively being replaced, as a backup, but only one version "deep" (so this backup gets overwritten with a new backup after a subsequent update)

[errant cairn]

Seems easy enough (store zip file in folder then delete it once the mod updates)

[trail ether]

C++ or C#

[errant cairn]

Either

[trail ether]

If the former then you really are on your own

[errant cairn]

I know all 3 of Java, C++ and C#

[trail ether]

While I technically know C++ I am FAR from good at it, and am not willing to spend more time with it than I absolutely have to (ie work)

[errant cairn]

Granted my knowledge is limited on graphical interfaces

[trail ether]

for C++ at work we use imgui

[errant cairn]

Sounds like me!

[trail ether]

for C# it has the WinForms system

for Java I use and love JavaFX

[errant cairn]

Got it

My programming fundamentals 3 course is currently covering Java

There was some notes on JavaFX

[trail ether]

JFX example https://reikakalseki.github.io/imagedownloads/i-imgur-com_2FaaY202k.png

using the default style

but it supports CSS stylig

for example https://i.imgur.com/Lay51fg.png

and https://i.imgur.com/kDDIpoj.png

[trail ether]

https://i.redd.it/iz369wqqxlvf1.jpeg

unrelated...or is it

not my image though

[worldly valve]

I find it incredibly diffocult to sleep more than 6 hours on most days

[faint summit]

I've checked my watch, and it is latcher o' clock madame.

[trail ether]

oh so you DO recognize it XD

[faint summit]

How could I forget.

[trail ether]

it was my first abyss encounter too

https://i.imgur.com/vRwFelV.png

[faint summit]

Yeah, it is supposed to be, apprently it's the only abyss encounter you can have at the lower level routes.

[trail ether]

yes, despite being the most dangerous by far

[faint summit]

It certainly is the most terrifying one.

[trail ether]

speaking of which, people complain that SN is scary, they have no idea

i mean hell even the soundtrack drives home the point https://youtu.be/YaRGuE__Jkc?t=78

[faint summit]

Seeing an endworm on sonar is pretty spooky but latchers always catch you by surprise.

[trail ether]

and they seem far more able to do catastrophic damage, while also never giving you a chance to escape

even in the late game they cause fatal problems for me ~30% of the time

meanwhile i have never ever lost a fight with the other two

or really even had difficulty

[faint summit]

Are latchers hostile to other creatures? I don't think I've ever encountered more than one abyss creature at the same time.

[trail ether]

i doubt it

[trail ether]

and no you never get more than one

[faint summit]

I've heard they eat lesser creatures outside of the abyss if they are spawned or somehow get out of the vent.

I've been tempted to try that mod that adds husk variants of every creature.

[errant cairn]

Real

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/UD3kSyV.png

and then i burned the pieces

[errant cairn]

SN isn't really that scary. I've seen other games that do better

[faint summit]

I can't quite tell what I'm looking at here, is that a thalamus outpost or something?

[trail ether]

though another later mission forced me to recover one intact https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/342503334227214338/1377060079420965085/image.png?ex=683796a3&is=68364523&hm=a6e380707103e1bc6276ebd03e272d2bb1ce1f05dd46749086385b7e99d7b879&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

i was afraid it would make me recover it alive too

[faint summit]

Oh is that a chimera?

[trail ether]

like the crawler one

[trail ether]

yes

[faint summit]

Fuck chimeras, I would take literally anything else.

[trail ether]

I almost said thalami do not bother me

almost

that used to be true

used to be https://i.imgur.com/28Hqphl.jpeg

[faint summit]

Before they added the thalamus ships probably

[trail ether]

no

the issue is that, while blacklisted from using nukes, the ammo blacklist is exactly that, a blacklist

so if you have mods adding new shells...

[faint summit]

I do miss the carriers though, don't see why they had to get rid of them.

The sounds they made were beyond creepy.

[trail ether]

though my new sub would survive a nuke hit so i think i can be less on edge again

plus it has two depth charge tubes and a ventral railgun

for extra long-range fuck-you power

[faint summit]

Oh, I was meaning to ask, you've some knowledge of base game SN. Do the sounds that the leviathans make when they are injured indicate anything mechanically?

[trail ether]

what sounds

[trail ether]

Barotrauma is right at my limit

[faint summit]

They make sounds when they take some amount of damage.

[trail ether]

like literally straddling the line - there are activities i can just about do and some i cannot bring myself to do

[faint summit]

Is that the signal that they'll retreat.

[trail ether]

ruins and caves being examples of the latter

[trail ether]

i have not seen anything like that

[faint summit]

I may just be imagining it, it just sounds like a higher pitched version of their charge attack sound.

[trail ether]

that is not a thing as far as I know

nor have i ever seen that

[faint summit]

Did you up the health of leviathans?

Is my grand knife crusade already at an end?

[karmic drum]

Why are you fighting the leviathans? They're hungry. Not malicious

[faint summit]

Is my hunger for what lies in their domain any less valid?

They seem to be a little too strong to kill, so it's a moot point.

They'll live, this time.

I do wish if you did enough damage then they simply wouldn't bother attacking you anymore.

[trail ether]

not quite but I made them have 95% damage resistance

[faint summit]

Lmao, well that'll do it.

Looking forward to the next update when we'll be able to feed them brine coral to tame them and then ride them into the ILZ to win the game.

[karmic drum]

What in the content slop?

[faint summit]

I just want some interaction with leviathans other than them serving as stage hazards.

[karmic drum]

You get the empress. That's it.

[faint summit]

NO

Excuse me mister, I'm gathering lithogel in here.

[karmic drum]

Now that one you can poke

[faint summit]

No, they're good boys, they just don't like the lights.

Although I'm not sure if you've noticed but the ones bred in the acu home in on your vehicle like a missile when released into the wild.

Like as soon as you get in range they immediately attack.

[exotic apex]

Oh hell yeah, a fellow Civ: Beyond Earth enjoyer!

[faint summit]

@trail ether My ||voltaic bladderfish|| vanished from the acu after I reloaded. Are they supposed to 'deplete' over time?

[unreal flame]

You would not believe how many references reika has made to Civ:BE

[trail plinth]

Like ingame references in her mods?

[trail plinth]

Mine are still there last i checked, so I dont think so, could be a bug?

[trail ether]

hellexar had a twisteel follow him in

[trail ether]

I like CivBE

people tell me I am crazy

[trail ether]

https://youtu.be/khKlNuZaNyw

[exotic apex]

It's unironically one of my favorite civ games. I just like the idea of it, I love space colonization games, and I like that you can actually befriend the alien wildlife

[trail ether]

yes

[exotic apex]

(Yes that does mean I am a Harmony player generally)

[trail ether]

I love the whole aesthetic

and people bitch that it is a thin veneer over Civ5 but V is the best Civ anyway

by a huge margin

[trail ether]

I did harmony my first run

[exotic apex]

Civ V is what got me into 4X games, so

[trail ether]

and part of the abandoned 2018 run

[unreal flame]

plus like three of the ores, a text entry...

[trail ether]

the text entry is for the gate

or do you mean a different one

[exotic apex]

I am also working on playing the Dragonrealm Pack, it's really fun too

[trail ether]

    <teleport>
        <desc>
            Being the prudent designer you are, you have decided to split your base into multiple structures spread across the landscape. However, this created a problem: Simply getting to them becomes something of a chore. However, another idea occurs to you: You could build a link of sorts, a gate, at any number of locations and be able to link between any two points at will. As long as the purity of the link is maintained, the two gates should work in harmony, and the supremacy of this method of travel will act as an emancipation from your current commute.
        </desc>
        <note>
            Can be toggled into private mode (purple), as well as between arrival/departure only (red/yellow).
            
            GUI Color Statuses:
            White = Fully Available
            Red = Owned by Other
            Yellow = Unpowered
            Magenta = No Structure
            Blue = Other Dimension
        </note>
    </teleport>```

[exotic apex]

I do also like Supremacy, I just can't bring myself to do Purity though. To authoritarian coded for me

[trail ether]

I did one purity run as PAC

early on

since then I almost always do supremacy

or supremacy-harmony

[exotic apex]

Fair, Transhumanism is fun

yea

[trail ether]

that is what my last run in 2020 was

[exotic apex]

I mainly do hybrid Supremacy-Harmony

[trail ether]

though not that kind of authoritarian

[exotic apex]

lol

[trail ether]

also I like how in BE the different powers are not so wildly out of balance with one another that you feel forced to pick the mechanically best one

I have played as Thakur, PAC, Russia, the middle-eastern lady from Rising Tide, and more

compare V where I played as...Rome a few times, then almost always Japan, and then after I got the DLC nothing but Babylon

I did one playthrough as russia and one as something else, but they were almost entirely forgettable

[exotic apex]

I've done India, Russia, the PAC, and Franco-Iberia

[trail ether]

the only ones I would absolutely never do are Brasilia, ARC, and Korea

because they so wildly diverge from my playstyle

[exotic apex]

Oh, and ARC once, that was my first, but I only played for a few turns

[trail plinth]

why have I not looked into civ:be yet this looks awesome

[trail ether]

it is

and the soundtrack is amazing too

[exotic apex]

Oh the music is great

[trail ether]

https://youtu.be/5B9h5TiiKSM?list=PLPsUoyxhXuMn0nUN5NDVJ8e42hX1heCDs

and it is also amazingly beautiful, as a game

[faint summit]

I think what happened was an ampeel egg hatched after I added them in, overpopulating the unit and killing the fish.

[trail ether]

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/civbe_1.png

[faint summit]

Ok I went back to the acu again and the ||lumafish ||were once again gone. If there are too little of them do they just get eaten and not replenished?

[trail ether]

I even tried making a mod to add miasma to factorio

that went poorly

[errant cairn]

I never found any fragments

Or they are hidden under the map and I'm blind

[faint summit]

They're there.

It's interesting that it would tell you about it if you hadn't scanned it.

[errant cairn]

I know they exist there

I'm just thinking they don't exist

in this save

[trail plinth]

||The pda updates all of the valid exploration findings pages those fragments are mentioned in, regardless of which wreck you actually pulled them from. Mostly to avoid spam, and unnecessary entries of 'Theres more to explore here'||

I just spoilered all of it cause i wasnt certain what would be spoilery or not

[errant cairn]

@trail ether I would love to see which class handles this (i cloned the whole thing onto my macbook, I'll avoid every thing else

Unless it contains lr and past stuff

[trail ether]

mostly because the triggers are common

stuff like "is tech unlocked" or "is scan entry complete"

[trail ether]

it contains every single biome, POI, and thing in said POI

it is very literally the most spoilery class in the entire mod

[errant cairn]

Awww 😭

[trail plinth]

okay yeah fair enough lmao

[errant cairn]

What classes/systems are safe for me to read?

[rapid cloud]

Oh man, I love when this game breaks sometimes.

[normal rune]

Haven't played since January... how much have I missed?

[faint summit]

A little bit : )

I would recommend playing again.

Also this is the first time I've had to dock my seamoth manually with the propulsion cannon. (Thanks lost river)

[normal rune]

Heh, yeah... Lost River is where I got stuck when I was playing, so I know exactly why.... but i'll leave out the reason because spoilers

[trail ether]

none

[trail ether]

I had to make that work

by default a dead seamoth will not dock

[trail plinth]

Oh yeah I remember having to do that in my last playthrough

[faint summit]

How long does it take ||brine coral|| to lose the ability to produce ||electrolytes|| cause I put it through a drill 30 seconds after I pulled it out, it exploded and gave me nothing.

[worldly valve]

Seeing the witness be clarly ery uncomplwted makes me sad on reikas list

I thought maybe thatd be one she liked

Since its all about observing everything and using that

[faint summit]

Omg, you do have to put the ||crystalline sulfur|| through the rock drill.

I thought for sure there was no way Reika was going to make us do that.

[worldly valve]

Ha

I find the brine coral to be way harder to deal woth XD

[faint summit]

Wait, you can't scan for ||crystalline sulfur||, even after analyzing it.

What does that mean?

Does it mean I haven't found out about it yet?

[trail plinth]

Hm, I would hazard a guess that's a bug

[faint summit]

Oh, I remember, I think it's ||lumenshroom|| samples.

Maybe

Time to go find out.

[errant cairn]

What recipe?

[faint summit]

||Heat sealed fabric||

[errant cairn]

Oh I have no idea

[trail plinth]

Yeah that's supposed to either be ||lumenshroom oil|| or ||tungsten grains||

or both and it just bugged out

or the recipe changed in the most recent update

[faint summit]

@trail ether Pls help

Provide insight master.

[faint summit]

I'm pretty sure it's just bugged because other recipes told me about ||tungsten grains|| long ago.

[faint summit]

I just took the materials needed for the fabric, tossed them in the trash can and used nocost as a workaround for now.

Hallelujah I have the reinforced dive suit.

[pearl pier]

Near the QEP I assume?

[errant cairn]

@trail ether why is my morale above 90 but im slower than a snail? (i was hit by a reaper 10 minutes ago)

[rapid cloud]

Yeah, now it's stuck like this everywhere.
On the upside, it helped me get the last part of this goD DAM- uhh... very enjoyable Bioprocessor. Only took me a total of two days and a half to get it.

Would prefer it fixed now though, wonder if any of the debug options can help

[pearl pier]

If you go into the QEP anf out it the glitch fixes itself

Just a decent way into it

[rapid cloud]

By "go into" you mean past the actual entrance? Because I do not even have a complete blueprint for those tablets, much less the resources to craft one even if I did.

[pearl pier]

If you are getting bioprocessor fragments I don't see why you arent able to

I do thi k you should have just reloaded your save when the bug first occured

[rapid cloud]

Well, by the time I realized I already popped a save.

[rapid cloud]

I do not know where to find the rest of the tablet fragments. Explored the island and the surrounding waters including the inner cave. Guess I'll just find them along the way.

[rapid cloud]

I saw a ping, yet no new messages. How curious.

[trail plinth]

A lot of important item placement is based on 'interesting areas that people don't normally explore during vanilla playthroughs.' From what I understand, c2c basically forces people to seek out and find a bunch of areas that didn't serve much use in vanilla

It's all about exploration

[trail ether]

there is a serious bug

[trail ether]

congratulations you cheated and skipped a major puzzle and recipe gate

your progression is now invalid, and if you saved your save is ruined

[trail ether]

warpforward <some small number> will fix it

and delete this

spoiler is not good enough

fix uploading

and i put in something that will prevent the mod from booting if this kind of error ever happens again

[faint summit]

What are you actually talking about, "My progression is invalid".

[barren oar]

is it really that deep though

isnt [item] used in... at least one other recipe? so its still going to be needed to be figured out

as well as... the steps taken to obtain it, themselves, still being required anyway...

[trail ether]

does not matter

the progression flags are now out of order

[faint summit]

Who knows, I'm going to bed. If the save really is "invalid" then I'm not investing 48 hours into another one.

[trail ether]

and will not work properly going forwards

[barren oar]

out of order flags? what does it matter if flag 1 was raised then flag 2, or flag 2 then flag 1, if both result in both of them being raised 1 1

if this sounds confrontational or malicious i really dont mean it, but i just dont see how this can really "ruin" a save

are you saving when a flag was raised somewhere in the save data? cant say i remember seeing that however, nor what use it could really have besides debugging perhaps

[faint summit]

No use questioning it, I'll enjoy the mod all over again when 2.0 comes around.

[trail ether]

because there is a complicated dependency chain

where X triggers Y but only if Z

[trail ether]

yes, not in terms of time - though that gets saved too, but not for progression so much as logging, analytics, and the like - but in terms of "game state"

[barren oar]

its just interesting because c2c and co. is coded very differently from "your average mod" at parts (not sure how it compares to smlhelper era mods, however)

[trail ether]

and not so much explicitly as the fact it influences what happens

[faint summit]

The scope of C2C is unlike anything that currently exists in the subnautica modding community, there is no questioning that.

[trail ether]

and I made a lot of simplifying assumptions when designing the progression trigger system, knowing what would normally be required for something else to occur

[barren oar]

e.g. nowadays you'd probably want to modify a vanilla prefab directly (unless you explicitly don't want mod prefabs extending from said vanilla prefab to also extend your custom components and such), but c2c instead, for every instance spawned, decides if it should or should not apply its custom components to it (which is the way you'd do it if you want it to be exclusive to vanilla prefabs)

that said, i dont think c2c modifies much that would be extended to warrant the extra overhead from deciding at runtime, instead of editing the prefab itself

[barren oar]

hmm i see (to the message above, too)

[faint summit]

Now that I think of it, I did make a backup save before I want into the ||void spikes||. That being said I will probably wait for 2.0.

[trail ether]

I suppose you could say that one of the best anticheat mechanisms you can have is not so much explicit anticheat but just fundamentally designing with the assumption that everything is always as expected and not building in any kind of robustness

"things break if you cheat" is not some additional layer added on top, it is baked right into how the progression tracking and trigger system is implemented

as a very simplistic and fabricated-for-the-sake-of-illustration example, imagine that, since you cannot legitimately obtain nickel without liquid breathing (not as a direct recipe dependency but as a functional progression-based one), then the things that happen once you collect nickel assume that the liquid breathing events have already fired, and are implemented accordingly; if they have not, and you cheated, then they fail and suddenly the things that happen when you find nickel do not

and this just cascades

[barren oar]

does this truly apply in this case, though? cant say ive seen any flags arising from [item], just flag that would lead to discovering [item]

is the issue more about future proofing? like if a flag is added to [item] discovery

[trail ether]

that is already tracked too, in fact

[barren oar]

ah, automatically?

[trail ether]

yes

[barren oar]

i see, that'd explain it

[errant cairn]

Sooooo because i got the stat rifle before bioprocessor (i can't find the last fragment for the life of me), my save is fucked?

But that still doesn't really explain why my last 5 saves got bricked just from warp and warpforward

[errant cairn]

i love 20fps gameplay right next to the wreck you get ||final liquid breathing||

esp on a 6950xt

[forest valve]

bro that can run (insert shittily optimized game here) at 30 fps fsr 1080p

[errant cairn]

cyberpunk?

so ur saying i should spend $500+ on an upgrade?

[forest valve]

cyberpunk is well optimized from what i see

[errant cairn]

meanwhile $2000 gpus barely running it at 100fps

my gpu was around $400 when my dad bought it for me

[forest valve]

goddamn

uts still around 400

[errant cairn]

I think that's like an extra model

or smth

cause mine was cheap as hell at microcenter directely from amd iirc

[forest valve]

oh damn what

if u got a 6950xt for like 400 then what the hell would a 3070 ti cost

[trail plinth]

Does the stasis rifle have any ingredients that require a bioprocessor? If so, then maybe, otherwise probably not. And from what I understand, warp and warpforward issues arent relevant to the progression flag thing unless youre specifically going to areas earlier than intended that have those flags

[errant cairn]

Polyaniline

Which, with a good battery, you can get

[trail plinth]

oh yeah if there are any flags for the stasis rifle that's absolutely going to be out of order

||how did you even get the polyaniline before the bioprocessor||

[rapid cloud]

Did this mod remove wall reinforcements or are they simply moved to appear much later in the progression?

[forest valve]

use hulls instead

i mean

[unreal flame]

later

[forest valve]

the door thingies

[rapid cloud]

Bulkheads. Though my main issue is with the feeling that I could be doing something with the wall segments in the big rooms. Reinforcements add more integrity for the future.

[forest valve]

ye u can use them later, tho bulkheads are buffed heavily i think

[rapid cloud]

Well, at least they stop water from rising in some rooms of my permanently flooded base. Still can't find where the breach is and rebuilding rooms one by one would be too annoying.

[trail plinth]

There's also reinforcement pillars, which are fairly cheap as well

why is part of your base permanently flooded lmao

[exotic apex]

Is Freedom mode like, acceptable with Sea2Sea? I'm thinking of starting a new save after updating the mod and downgrading SN, and Freedom would make retracing all my progress a lot more palatable

[unreal flame]

That

Is an excellent question

[exotic apex]

@trail ether ?

[trail ether]

no because those are not chained in the same way

[trail ether]

it is not balanced against that and more importantly a lot of things are not designed for it, and you are likely to have issues

the core stuff I usually test in freedom, so it will likely be playuable

but for example there are probably things that will hard-reference the food system

that might break some things

and I know the morale UI is broken on freedom, and I am not going to waste effort on that

unrelated

this is a great example of metagaming

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1o9vxxk

biters spawn at fixed positions relative to the spawner, and a spawn fails if the location is occupied

so you can block all of those, and only those, locations with arbitrary objects and now the spawner is totally inert

I do not think it is even remotely debatable that this is wildly departing from intended gameplay

[trail ether]

and an extremely clear demonstration of this

both that the cheesy approach is far simpler and easier than the intended one, and the fact that you would only ever know it works because of reading code or exhaustive testing

[barren oar]

yeah obviously thats unintended but its warranted because biters suck

its funny however

[trail ether]

it is not just that it is unintended

metagaming is defined by three crucial factors, of whjich being unintended is only one

it is important that it is also both far superior in terms of risk/cost-to-reward to the intended method, and, most of all, that you would only ever know it works by analyzing the actual implementation of the game, rather than the "in universe logic"

[barren oar]

it is vastly more effort to walk all the way back and forth with pipes, be presented with a high risk dying because you're attacked by a 40 wide biter army, and just generally that you'll have to spend all your time to do this since new chunks constantly get generated by pollution, as well as biter areas expanding themselves(?)

when you could just. set up a stone mine. leave it for the next 26 minutes and you can surround your base in walls

like yes it is metagaming but it really doesnt matter unless you're doing something absurd like max level biters from day 0

[trail ether]

killing biters guarding a nest is a hell of a lot easier than killing the nest itself

[trail ether]

also blueprints are a thing

it is a single click

all you need to do is throw a few poison capsules or lead away the ambient guards, then rush in and place the BP

[barren oar]

admittedly, military tech weapons are something i keep not thinking of since i dont research military science ever (because biters suck)

that said, by the time you have construction bots and they're upgraded enough for blueprints to be even remotely helpful in this, you can already afford artillery

so just. bomb them. there's really no point

[errant cairn]

Thank god

My battery dupe glitch didn't brick my save

[trail plinth]

reika, holding a brick: are you sure about that

[errant cairn]

I haven't abused it (except getting free power cells (well "free" i had to spend rubber))

(I only have all my tools with a good battery + 4 in a charger plus 7 more (i think, might be 5))

Also opinions on a decrafter?

I don't recall it being patched out

[trail ether]

...what?

even before SA - which gates artillery after Vulcanus, and practically Fulgora as well - it is a near-endgame thing

[errant cairn]

Or 3 researches from the end of the game without SA

(In 2.0)

[barren oar]

??? so late, really? i recalled it was pretty early on

i do retract part of my statement, then

well, as "early game" as one might consider construction bots

how far along are tanks again

[errant cairn]

Earlier

Like 5-10 researches after car earlier

[barren oar]

they're also pretty effective, even if its not as convenient as sitting in your base

[errant cairn]

Might be 15

[barren oar]

though I'd rather die than have to drive in factorio

[errant cairn]

Spidertron

[barren oar]

never used it in all honesty

[errant cairn]

12/10 experience in all honesty

You do need the belt equipment though

The thing that lets you stay not moving on belts

It's peak otherwise

[trail ether]

not at clearing nests

in vanilla nests have massive explosive resist

it makes no sense given their construction

and indeed I changed that in one of my mods

but they have like 75% resist in vanilla

[trail ether]

it is just a few

tanks use military tech yes but unless you have been ignoring all military tech until that point, once you unlock cars you are likely to have only 2-5 techs left to go for a tank

[errant cairn]

Oh

[exotic apex]

Yeah, tanks are Mil 3, Cars, and Explosives. Even if you haven't been doing military, that's like, 4 techs at most

You should have explosives anyway because Cliffs are annoying lmao

[errant cairn]

i have a wall locker in resource monitor...

it gives me a "player" item

i keep losing grav traps

[trail plinth]

iirc artillery before SA was also yellow and/or purple science as well

[karmic drum]

Stalkers always run off with mine.

[trail plinth]

basically on par with the rocket itself

[trail plinth]

lmao

stalkers kept running off with my cameras

[errant cairn]

they do that? so like, 2 grav traps have phased through the floor then? cause they dont exist

[karmic drum]

Oh they take those too

[trail plinth]

(one of them embedded a camera into the terrain somehow)

[karmic drum]

Yea, stalkers can take them

[karmic drum]

And do shit like this

[errant cairn]

i had one in my inventory (or so i thought, i crashed and that may not have saved) and that vanished too

[trail plinth]

anything that they can grab that attracts their attention (so probably most of the deployable metal things)

[errant cairn]

me trying to peacefully farm stuff in the jellyshroom caves
random ahh crab snake (or all of them within a 100m radius of my seamoth): "ooo a seamoth!"

[trail plinth]

stalker swimming away with a full floating locker

[trail plinth]

dang really? where are you parking, I've only ever had 1 or 2 issues with a crab snake going after my seamoth, every other problem was when I was swimming

[errant cairn]

my seamoth went below 30 hp the first time

[trail plinth]

oof

[errant cairn]

ok can confirm my save IS cursed, but not bricked

[trail plinth]

yippeeeee

I love having a cursed but not bricked save

[errant cairn]

you should watch me https://discord.com/channels/324207629784186882/324207630211874816

[trail plinth]

I'm in another voice channel playing league 😭

[errant cairn]

u can join muted on a diff device

[trail plinth]

all I got is my phone and that screen is tiny

[errant cairn]

fr

unless u got a fold phone

then those screens are massive

[trail plinth]

samsung galaxy s8

[errant cairn]

TINY

[trail plinth]

LMAO

[errant cairn]

im so confused on the item collector

like

where does the stuffs go

my locker?

[trail plinth]

into the void, obviously

gotta feed the ghosties

[errant cairn]

fair

but until i know what this does

ima figure out something else

ill figure it out when i need to

[trail plinth]

does it not have a PDA entry on what it does

also I don't think it'd be much of a spoiler to let you know that it does just put items into nearby lockers, as far as I'm aware

[trail ether]

that is lumenshroom oil

it randomly and rarely does this

and sometimes even turns back

i have no idea why

[errant cairn]

oh

then i lost 2 lumenshroom oil

womp womp

[trail plinth]

this is so sad, what will you do without that lumenshroom oil??

[errant cairn]

ikr

im depressed now

[rapid cloud]

So I kind of wonder... what is the idea behind the morale system? Does it do anything positive when kept up?

Because from my still early-ish point of view, it looks like a mechanic that is there just to make it harder with no real substance behind it. I could be wrong with that statement, maybe there is something going on that I am not seeing; however, from what I can currently see, it feels like I either let it deplete and do everything like a snail (both movement and for some reason crafting station opening also gets slowed down?) or keep it up and just... do everything as I would in vanilla.

I did see some mention that it is a work in progress, so that's why I am asking.

Before anyone asks, I made sure to keep it at like half for a long time, didn't feel much reason to keep it at 100% from the few times I somehow noticed it going that high on its own.

[trail plinth]

Afaik it serves a similar purpose to the hunger and thirst meters, it's there to add a bit more to the player character's experience than just surviving. It's also intended to make base decorating actually mean something I think

I could be wrong but it may also act as a hurdle in certain areas, or at least impose some amount of extra difficulty when there otherwise wouldn't really be any

[trail ether]

@rapid cloud

[trail ether]

this is also true - I have very little data to go on and the balance is still being tuned, as well as there are still edge cases resulting in unintended behavior being discovered

plus early on, which is the time period a lot of people formed their opinions, it had a couple serious bugs

[trail ether]

pretty much just hellexar's playthrough, which I am watching

which goes slowly because that involves scheduling real-time interaction

[rapid cloud]

So, the crafting menu opening at a glacial pace when morale is depleted is also meant to be an extra incentive to keep up with the mechanic or is it some movement speed-related side effect?

[trail ether]

but that is my only useful input, because all other input I have received is either too vague, too "casual" (as in not really caring to be meaningful, just being eg idle whining or "it sounds cool"), or too sporadic

@rapid cloud

see that entire paragraph

[rapid cloud]

Well, as someone that went through a period of deeper depression, I can honestly relate to the explanation you provided.

[trail ether]

what do you think my reference point was

[rapid cloud]

Honestly, while slowing down the crafting UI is definitely annoying, I find myself having a hard time coming up with other ways to make the morale system affecting the Player when ignored. I'm not quite sure if there is all that much to go on, because if that part was removed, the movement speed decrease would not be all that much noticeable since Seamoth + ||Azurite powered|| Seaglide are fast enough even at 0 morale.

Though adding positive sides to keeping it up is definitely worth looking into, maybe bonus healing from medical items? Sort of like how when you are in peak shape, you do not find it particularly hard to do all the necessary treatment steps by-the-book and stuff like that.

IMO, a mechanic that is not directly deadly when ignored (hunger, thirst) should always have rewards and punishments related to how well the Player is interacting with it. Yes, if ignored, negative effects get applied, but there cannot be just negatives or it's just difficulty for the sake of it.

So as I said, maybe bonus healing for the character being very attentive to proper procedures, perhaps slight hunger/thirst depletion reduction as a form of your body is functioning properly and efficiently

Riley could be a stress eater, you never know.

(Man I suck at coming up with ideas, even though I work in game FQA)

[faint summit]

Reika when you were saying that my progression was invalid, what were you referring to exactly? I never spawned any items in to make the ||heat sealed fabric||. the ||ghost membrane|| was craftable at the fabricator for free after I scanned both the juvinile and the adult.

[trail ether]

that is already athing in leisure/work rooms

[trail ether]

FQA?

[trail ether]

you still got the suit before the gates for it

that said your mention just revealed another bug to me

which i am uploading a fix for

I hate when a new feature has two entirely independent bugs with it

[faint summit]

What gate are you referring to?

[trail ether]

and then i get a report for one and am in such a rush to fix it that I miss the second

but that rush is necessary when it is a huge progression bug

[rapid cloud]

Functional Quality Assurance, I test games for a living. Groaning a bit because we are sometimes asked to write feedback to clients, not normal daily reports but actual feedback.

And, well, I am racking my brain to give some ideas here while I tend to have no such issues during working hours.

[trail ether]

in which case you are probably far better positioned than most to provide meaningful feedback, at least for anything you know well enough

that said C2C obviously has some major differences in its design process compared to a commercial game, in both core motivations driving the design and in "development policy"

[rapid cloud]

Well yeah, it is ultimately a mod so it will have some limitations because it is not working on pure raw source code of the game (unless the devs released it).

[trail ether]

while true that is not what I meant

also I do have the source

not from them releasing it

but SN in C#

and C# can be decompiled

[rapid cloud]

Oh nice, that does change stuff a bit. Not to the point of redesigning the game for legal reasons but it still does open up a lot.

Though I would like to know what you actually meant, to not keep the topic at an uncertain position.

[trail ether]

https://i.imgur.com/NdUfOnv.png

example

[rapid cloud]

Alright, that is very handy.

[trail ether]

it is absolutely necessary to write transpilers

dnSpy has an IL view https://i.imgur.com/6WVlNPD.png

[trail ether]

as in A) how my design goals and priorities are fundamentally different than that of a commercial product and its authoring company, and as such it is very possible for something that is a standard comment in a commercial QA environment to mean nothing to me because I fundamentally do not care about that the way they would (the inverse is also potentially true, though a lot less likely) and B) how with the mod being made by me and me alone, there is no collaborative development, no impositions on development process or criteria, no administrative concerns, no proposal/review process necessary for features or development, et cetera