SeaToSea

[karmic drum]

Also would it be safe to use the Migrate mod? Or would that break behaviors on your custom creatures?

[trail ether]

migrate?

[karmic drum]

It's a mod that lets creatures move between biomes based on migratory conditions

[trail ether]

i have toyed with that idea for ecocean

[karmic drum]

So you can shake up that easy feeling of knowing where everything is at all times

[trail ether]

that is why I thought of it

thoroughly undermine the "common knowledge" of what is where

I did not actually try implementing this as SN AI is not suitable for long-range pathfinding

especially given terrain does not load in far away

[karmic drum]

Let me grab the git page

Nexus*

https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/1056

[trail ether]

this mod seems to be vertical

like the real-world phenomenon

[karmic drum]

Yea

[trail ether]

i meant large-scale migration

[karmic drum]

I imagine. It's cause of those ai limits you mentiones

[trail ether]

across entire biomes

[karmic drum]

Which would make large scale migration... praticually difficult

[trail ether]

yes

[karmic drum]

Honestly the fact that terrain doesn't render map wide seems like one of the biggest hurdles

Maybe for sn2

[trail ether]

that will not likely have it any different

UE is no more capable of loading the entire giant map at once than unity

look at how the satisfactory map is segmented

granted, their segments are huge, only 9-16 for the entire map

but that also means large lag spikes as you cross and one loads in, though they made that a lot less intense after 2023

[karmic drum]

I actually wouldn't know. I bought the game. But refuneded it cause I wanted the money more than a new addiction

[trail ether]

it is on sale right now

[karmic drum]

I guess some things just aren't quite possible yet

[trail ether]

30% off

[trail ether]

loading the entire map at once has two main problems, the chief of which is memory

[karmic drum]

The only thing I could afford to snag off the steam sale was sn 😅

[trail ether]

maps and all the entities on them is a ton of data

[karmic drum]

Yea. That's an absurd of amount of resources to keep running

Especially for games which run entirely on a users personal rig

[trail ether]

on my old PC satisfactory crashed a lot as I travelled around the map, because I was OOMing as the map loaded a huge number of new assets and agents

made a lot worse with sudden movements like hypertube cannons or teleporters

since loading in was faster than unloading the old area

[trail ether]

I can only think of one game with a large active map that has the whole thing loaded at once

factorio

but they have optimized to an insane degree to make that possible

and even still its memory footprint is considerable

in 2020 I tried adding Space Exploration to my endgame save and OOM crashed because that loaded the entire map at once to apply the on-install patches

I doubt that PC would have been able to handle the new Factori oDLC with all the concurrently loaded surfaces

[trail ether]

the less serious limitation is the actual agent simulation itself

that is less serious because in most games you can LOD the behavior, which SN actually does too

[unreal flame]

Space Exploration isn’t backwards-compatible because Earendel balances their stuff stupidly

[trail ether]

in a game like factorio or satisfactory you cannot because your factories need to keep working unaffected no matter where you are

[trail ether]

not "properly" but as far as I could tell it was technically possible, memory issues aside

it was not "progression-legitimate" and there were production lines I would have had to change

but that was the point

I wante dto try SE without the effects of AAI

[unreal flame]

It also changed how nauvis was supposed to generate (large area rather than infinite)

[karmic drum]

Yea. I'm familiar with LOD tech thanks to my time in modded subnautica

[trail ether]

or sim games

this is i suppose another category of game with a large all-at-once map

think like Cities Skylines

but those are infamous for grinding to a halt in the late game due to lag

SimCity itself had the same issue back in the 2000s

I remember bringing my computer back then to its knees trying to keep up with my cities

[karmic drum]

I'd give it another 10-15yrs before we have the commerical market tech, and another 10yrs before enough people have it to warrent studios developing games with it

[trail ether]

and watching it struggle to do even a day a second in the calendar

[karmic drum]

Modding subnautica and not bringing my pc to it's knees feels nice

I do get the occasional lag spike on legacy that I don't get on 2.0 though.

[trail ether]

probably GameObject loading

that is async in 2.0

[karmic drum]

But it's worth it to play this mod right now

[karmic drum]

Yea. That's what it feels like now that you say it

Like I don't know how that works. But I can make a good inference by mashing acquired knowledge together in my brain and recalling the spikes

[trail ether]

loading objects involves loading from disk

which is always slow in any application

but on top of that it is just a complex process with a lot of stuff to do

so if you have a bunch of objects all loading in at once, synchronously, the game can hang for a fraction of a second, often repeatedly, giving the classic stutter

a clear example of this can be seen in the glass forest

i get a ~0.1-0.2s lag spike for each deepvine plant, one by one

and this makes sense as each one is a stack of like 20-40 objects, with a lot of operations applied to them on spawn

[trail ether]

then it resolves itself after they are all loaded

[karmic drum]

Probably all the lockers I had outside my pod. Only place it really occurs

[barren oar]

huh, what is it doing after they load in then to be such a lagfest

[trail ether]

a deepvine plant is made of a long chain of cave bush prefabs

[karmic drum]

Took me forever to find out how to get rare metals. And by extension to building a base with internal storage

[trail ether]

and then the renderer is modified, which is three materials per prefab

[karmic drum]

Oh they weren't big spikes lol

And not exactly consitent.

[barren oar]

they were for me

constant throughout the biome

[karmic drum]

It was just a "huh, that's there" moment

[barren oar]

but ive rambled about this long enough prior

lol

[barren oar]

actually why dont you just modify one then instantiate it over and over

[trail ether]

constant persistent lag is something entirely different

and not something I experience

it could be simply due to overdraw

that biome is full of extremely heavily layered transparency, which is typically advised against for performance reasons

but I value visuals over performance, as long as it stays playable

[barren oar]

lol fair

[trail ether]

clever but that is not how SML loads prefabs

you have a GetGameObject() that is invoked each time it is loaded in

to which you supply a completed GO

the way almost all of my prefabs work is they take a vanilla prefab and then apply modifications to it

sometimes simple ones like texture, or adding a couple components

sometimes very complex, like deepvine or most AE machines

[barren oar]

empty prefab -> static modified cave bush -> check if its defined -> if not, do it then cache it -> instantiate 40 copies of the static clone -> profit?

[trail ether]

I am not sure that would be faster

[barren oar]

could also do it over several frames i'd imagine

[trail ether]

that is what async is

[barren oar]

yeah async the spawning

[trail ether]

which is the other thing - given 2.0 will heavily mitigate the issue it is hard to justify spending a lot of time designing - and debugging - a new system

[barren oar]

youll have to async everything anyway for living large

[trail ether]

not by rewriting how my prefabs are constructed or loaded though

[barren oar]

well everything that deals with spawning

[trail ether]

just making my prefab loading itself async, and the game will handle the actual async calling

game/nautilus

[trail ether]

I am concerned how this might work with the lookups being async

that is oneof the things i really need to grapple with for a 2.0 update

[barren oar]

thats it

[trail ether]

oh

[barren oar]

lol

its pretty streamlined for sure

[trail ether]

why can I not pin things

[trail ether]

@unreal flame can you pin this

[errant cairn]

Reika remove the embeds for the LR screenshots. I could see them all and was spoiled that power consumption is greater in the LR

[pine ginkgo]

There are bigger fish to fry than that for the LR

[errant cairn]

True, but I still don't wanna be spoiled by it

so I won't look

[trail ether]

I spoilered them

but I want to say something

that mechanic is one of the very oldest in the mod

it was added in Apr 2022

for reference development started in...Apr 2022

it was one of the original few "puzzles"/gates

so I would expect it to be common knowledge by now

[errant cairn]

Respectfully, I looked at the screenshots for half a second and thought "what is happening there"

and I don't know what puzzles were made very early on, I wasn't even in this server until december 2024

and I can still see the UI in those screenshots. I haven't unlocked whatever that is yet and hope I can find something that will lead me to it, I thought it was pretty neat

[worldly valve]

0erhaps suggest the use of easycraft on site?

[karmic drum]

@trail ether where are you getting the Mr.purple mods in your modlist? I can't find any of the vehicle related or bioreactor mods for legacy on thier Git

[karmic drum]

Nvm. I think I found the right Git page

I did

[silk pond]

finally got the ||liquid breathing system ||

[errant cairn]

bruh i feel so poor compared to you guys

im going on a fucking HUNT for the ||liquid breathing system||

all biomes will be hit

starting with the ||jellyshroom caves|| honestly

[pine ginkgo]

I don’t think you’re very close to it

Progression wise

It was like 40 hours before I got it ahha

Granted progression isn’t linear and you could have it much earlier on

But Im pretty sure I did ||nearly everything I could above 400/500m before getting it||

[errant cairn]

dude i have the ||electrochemical suit|| whats the worst that could happen

[pine ginkgo]

Yea you’re probably fine then, but getting the system is kinda tricky

[errant cairn]

what does it take a ton of a material i don't know of?

[pine ginkgo]

No you should have everything

But getting the actual system is quite tricky

[errant cairn]

that makes me sadge in two ways

i cant even play until this final is done which is going to take forever

and its going to be hard to get always makes me sad

[pine ginkgo]

Well its easy with the right stuff but you’ve gotta figure that out too of course

[karmic drum]

Am I nuts? Or do the bone sharks seem way more territorial than usual?

Like I'm trying to poke around life pod 12. And these dudes are... chasing me to the ends of the earth for even looking at them

[flint aspen]

they are the bane of my existence... at this point i just kill any i see 😤

[karmic drum]

I'd make a defense system for my seamoth.. but I don't have the polianine recipe. Ig torpedos are an option... but that's just burning resources

[flint aspen]

i rather get personal with them 🔪

[karmic drum]

Ig for right now I'll just explore regions I haven't fleshed out yet

[worldly valve]

They are about half the reason i think the seamoth isnt very useful in the mod

[karmic drum]

I mean I don't have any other transit options rn

[worldly valve]

Sure you do sir

You havr a sea glide

And maybr something to pair with it

Just think like sonic

"Gotta go fast"

Also saved you from repairing theamoth 20 times an outing

[flint aspen]

some things are really hard/not possible without the moth as mobile air capsule though 😅

[karmic drum]

Yea. I have to test if the radiation field expands to that zone. Haven't found my mod station fragments yet

[worldly valve]

Very false

[karmic drum]

So no ultra tank or fins

[worldly valve]

Well as long as pre river false

[karmic drum]

I think it's doable with the seaglide

It just won't be present

[worldly valve]

Oh well mod station sounds likr a super high priority ino

[karmic drum]

Gonna grab my batteries and rebreather

[karmic drum]

There's a wreck which looks like it houses some. I just need to evade the sharks long enough to get in

[flint aspen]

yeah sure its always possible to build a base in front of the deep wrecks but not really feasible though

[worldly valve]

So if you uave a thing

The seaglide is at most 30 seconds from surface above 500m

(And with 2 ultra high capacity tanks you can glide from sea to sea

[karmic drum]

I gotta plan. Just gotta grab the essentials

And... restart my game cause an inventory mod broke

[silk pond]

idk why but i love the seamoth and think it is very useful

i guess thats just my play style

and i just dont turn my lights on when around bonesharks

[karmic drum]

Mission accomplished

Got what I needed got out

@worldly valve thanks for the seaglide tip. And @flint aspen thanks for the violence solution

Get the inclination I shouldn't have been wreck diving out there yet though

[worldly valve]

Ehhhh

This mod is mostly open ended

Theres like 2 or 3 crunch points

[trail ether]

check their databank entry

[karmic drum]

Ah. Will do for future encounters

[karmic drum]

||Who puts a life pod in the ecological deadzone? 😭 ||

||The reaper nabbed me before I got there ||

[pine ginkgo]

Reaper will be your least of your problems there

[karmic drum]

Yea. Needing to change my pants is definitely bigger

[pine ginkgo]

Lol, you absolutely will need to get used to being next to reapers very often in C2C

[karmic drum]

Had a speed module in my seamoth and the fuck still crept up on me like a mouse on Christmas eve

[pine ginkgo]

Every bit of every biome needs to be explored

[karmic drum]

Quit the game before he could snap my shit in two. Rather be a save scumming rat then loose my sub 😭

Actually... ig now that I can farm mats properly...

[pine ginkgo]

I just always leave my moth at the edge of biomes with reapers

[karmic drum]

A seamoth ain't too expensive

[karmic drum]

Well... I didn't think taking glide all the way out... there was an amazing idea

[pine ginkgo]

Well Id rather not have my moth break, especially with certain upgrades

I would ask how far into the mod you are but progression isnt exactly linear

[karmic drum]

Yea. I don't have the good upgrades yet. I don't even have the chemicals to make the normal upgrades

[karmic drum]

||Far enough to have the seamoth depth module on the arua fucking booby trap me 😭. But not far enough to get into the prawn bay.||

[pine ginkgo]

Oh the prawn bay is a fun one

Its a bit more difficult than you might think

[karmic drum]

Yea

||The giant blue wall of fire and molten door give that impression||

||Along with the 20 prawn fragments||

I think the play next time I get on. Might just to be to expand my main base as a storage center. And then make recon bases in other biomes. Especially since I won't have to deal with the radiation much longer

[silk pond]

the 20 prawn claw arm fragments aren’t required

idk whats up with them

there also in normal subnautica

[trail ether]

those are not unrelated

[trail ether]

that is NOT supposed to be possible

[real dust]

I know a million people have already asked this but I’m not sure where to find the answer. Does this mod disable FCS mods when they are both enabled together?

[barren oar]

no, but it does alter it heavily

fcs is changed and patched so it fits c2c's progression better

[real dust]

Oh that’s cool

I know return of the ancients wasn’t released for legacy but does anybody know if that mod collided with sea2sea?

[barren oar]

if you cant play it on legacy then theres no possible collision

[unreal flame]

Reika and I talk regularly about compatibility for when sea to sea updates and RotA fully releases

[real dust]

Very nice!

[karmic drum]

I didn't try lol

[karmic drum]

Yea. Pretty sure I just took a bad route out lol

Still learning the game map

[barren oar]

it was possible for the first few weeks or something iirc

nowadays it just spawns three ghosties immediately on your ass

[karmic drum]

Bro... now I know it's gon happen 😭 😭 😭

[barren oar]

that happens if you dont have the required equipment to deal with it

which you'll discover in due time

if you didnt already

[karmic drum]

Yeah. Like I noted last night. Just gonna expand my storage and setup some recon bases in a some other biomes

Thankfully any bases constructed at 200m or higher are cheap. They don't need too much infrastructure

[barren oar]

yeah and reefbalance cheapens them out a tad i think

multipurpose room at least

[karmic drum]

Yea. Multi-purpose room, scanner room, bio-reactor. Is all I'm gonna need for the biomes I actually have access to currently

[barren oar]

ye bio the goat usually

especially with something like a bulbo tree planter

three planters, for the sweet garden room specialisation bonus

[karmic drum]

Fr fr. And right now I've just been using fish

[karmic drum]

I haven't figured out how the specialization bonus system works yet

[barren oar]

you put enough things of a matching specialisation (and only those things, excluding decoration) and at some point it specialises

note that unless it was recently patched not everything makes sense. the acu information panel unspecialises an acu room, the room specialisation information panel unspecialises any room, and the small planters unspecialise the garden

probably among others i forget

[karmic drum]

I figured that much lol. I just haven't figured out what doing that does. But I'll learn by doing your suggestion. Try it out on my main base first

[barren oar]

gives a boost in its respective domain

[karmic drum]

Ah. So like the trees grow faster?

[barren oar]

that is one effect, yes

[karmic drum]

Cool. I'll learn the rest here in a few

[karmic drum]

||Um.... my bioreactor is generating power without any fuel present ||

[karmic drum]

Nvm it just had excess fuel left over

[solemn storm]

Did ACUs change in the last update? My critters ||no longer seem to be pooping||.

[fiery fiber]

Sorry was sleeping. At work now. I'll get it when I get home

[karmic drum]

||Clever job hiding the seamoth depth module mk1. Don't think I'd have found it without a scanner room||

[pine ginkgo]

The first ||card maybe, but definitely not the other two haha||

[karmic drum]

|| and I still need to find the blue print for it's unique ingredient too||

[flint aspen]

Is the|| Liquid Breathing Recharger || supposed to drain power when its not actively recharging the tank?

[worldly valve]

I usually leave it at 99%

[barren oar]

ye just deconstruct it a bit

[flint aspen]

Ive got 3 thermal power plants for my outpost. There is nothing in there draining power except the ||recharger || and its still not enough to use a fabricator at the same time...

[barren oar]

itll keep its contents

[flint aspen]

that would be a solution if it wasnt filled with 3000s of liquid... 😅

[barren oar]

itll keep its contents

[flint aspen]

oooh

ok i didnt know... thats neat thank you 🙂

[barren oar]

you wont be losing anything besides the passive power drain

[flint aspen]

is that the intended way or just a workaround atm?

[barren oar]

who the hell knows lol

[flint aspen]

ok forget i asked 😄

[barren oar]

if its a workaround it sure as hell is useful

because it really shouldnt waste power like that

itd make sense if it also wasted the contents (constantly emitting it out, whether it helps you or not) but thankfully thats not the case

[flint aspen]

i thought so too. noticed the same with the bioreactor... maybe it can only drain or not drain through some kind of coding limit but what the hell do i know xD

[barren oar]

c2c's primary processing machine consumes power only while it's working, so that's most certainly not a concern

the || bioprocessor ||

[flint aspen]

yeah i meant the ||processor || but i could swear i had the same issue once where it would also drain passively... maybe it was the ||recharger|| though and i didnt notice

[barren oar]

cant say ive seen it have this issue

[errant cairn]

So what I'm seeing is get a absolute shit ton of power...as soon as I can I'm gonna grind solar panels and bioreactors

[barren oar]

thermal reactors carry if you have a nearby heat area

they're actually goated as hell

[pine ginkgo]

thats what I did

also the extra power thing that Reika added

[errant cairn]

I could try to grind for enough transmitters

[karmic drum]

Once you get down deep enough heat power should be almost constantly available. The real concern is just deciding what bases need what energy concentrations

[barren oar]

you do all your energy-intensive operations in your main base so thats going to have the most power production always

then a bioreactor with a planter or acu (if you're feeling rich) if there's no heat vent nearby, otherwise a thermal or two

solar panels can help with reducing how much a main base bioreactor will consume of its fuel, acting as more of a backup than actual production

also the battery carries

genuienly free power storage

[karmic drum]

Why do you say an acu is rich? Is that implying the resources needed to reach it's schematic location? Or is it's recipe more expensive than I know it to be?

[barren oar]

enamelr glas </3

[karmic drum]

Actually a question 🤔

||can azurite batteries be put in any tool? Or are they specialized?||

[barren oar]

former

[karmic drum]

||dope. Once I get better access to the materials. I'll definitely be making more of those||

Also man. Carrying a second or third o2 tank on you is so clutch when exploring

Especially when you can't save outside a vehicle or base

[worldly valve]

It didnt used to be that bad on my previous file. Dunno whta happened

[errant cairn]

Real

spoiler that

[silk pond]

there is a glitch where they dont spawn

[errant cairn]

so you need to get them how then

[weary bison]

How do i spoiler? And how do i avoid the glitch?

[silk pond]

there is a fix but make sure ur in the right cave first

[errant cairn]

|| <- on every side of the text you wanna spoil

[weary bison]

Thanks

[errant cairn]

||||like dis||||

[weary bison]

If i will be in the right ||cave|| what do i do?

[silk pond]

do u know ehat cave it spawns in?

[weary bison]

I think the ||big one||

[silk pond]

do u want to go into vc so i can check

[weary bison]

K wait a moment

I also saw the mod on Nexus that apparently fixes it

[silk pond]

there is one but for all i know you could be in the wrong cave

also that mod breaks something later in the game

[weary bison]

Ok good you told me

Im loading the save

[silk pond]

ok

[weary bison]

Ok im in the cave

[silk pond]

send a screenshot

and spoiler it

[weary bison]

Dont mind the lighting

[silk pond]

please go up so i can see better

[weary bison]

Ok

Again dont mind the lighting and my crusty laptop

[silk pond]

correct cave

it goes below 500m right?

[weary bison]

About 450m-500m

[silk pond]

it should go to about 520

[weary bison]

But if i go too low it will end up 500-530m

[silk pond]

ok good

[weary bison]

Ok i tested it goes 530m

[silk pond]

so you will have to install the fix mod

then use the command fixgens

then uninstall it to avoid future problems

[weary bison]

I did had it installed thanks for the help

Without the help i would keep going in circles

I used the command it didn't work atleast for me

[flint aspen]

Petition for a recipe to convert 5 metal scrap into 2 titan bars 😅

[fiery fiber]

Um ok so how does one find the c2c hash?

[flint aspen]

what is v2c hash?

[fiery fiber]

It's something Reika needs to figger out why my c2c broke

[flint aspen]

try asking google how to find the hash from a .dll file

looks a bit complicated though xD

[fiery fiber]

doh! good idea

[weary bison]

K i fixed it just dowloaded the Source Code of the fixer

[trail ether]

that does not sound right

I know the ACU panel is explicitly marked as ACU type

and the info panel is untyped, meaning it has no effect

[trail ether]

solars will not suffice

period

I specifically saw to that

[trail ether]

lots of tools can hash a file

I just use 7zip

[errant cairn]

Yeah but what if some psychopath decided to use only solar?

not saying i will

why does my game lag when entering the moth

[trail ether]

then their base will not function

[errant cairn]

who what where how and why?

[errant cairn]

OH BOY

||REINFORCED DIVE SUIT BABYYYYYYYYY||

[pine ginkgo]

Have you gotten everything for it?

[karmic drum]

Good. Nothing comes from relying on cheap, maintanceless power

[pine ginkgo]

I mean a lot of my power in my main base comes from solar haha

I also use a thermal and bio though

But pretty much anywhere else I just use bio

[errant cairn]

hell to the no

[pine ginkgo]

I was gonna say

[karmic drum]

These fucking reapers... went too far out. Now I have to save scum my way home. Really need to find the perimeter defense upgrade plans

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-first-contant-action-drama-zefram-cochrane-gif-3528340

Made it

[errant cairn]

W

[karmic drum]

Playing at max fov... makes them so much scarier

Unless... will shooting a gas torpedo at this face make them let go of me?

[errant cairn]

last i checked it didnt

for vanilla, but last i checked was never

[karmic drum]

Shit. Ok. So no current options for making them dislodge me

[errant cairn]

ig not

[karmic drum]

I have a mk3 defense module so I can take a beating for a second. But as they don't let go till they get what they want.... they act as a deterent and my only current option is to extend my explortation range

[errant cairn]

wait is the ||liquid breathing recharger|| required to actually use the ||liquid breathing system||

[barren oar]

maybe my info is outdated but i dont remember seeing any recent aq eng patches that would solve tgat

[errant cairn]

what the actual fuck is ||"microbiotic gel"|| used for????

idk how to get ||lithogel|| either, guess i haven't looked hard enough, but im going to check around after doing a few things

[karmic drum]

Gonna go double back to the Jellyshroom caves. Pretty sure I missed some imporants bits down there

[pine ginkgo]

Check the exploration findings

[errant cairn]

||is salve leaves supposed to give you something when you scan it/pick it up||

[pine ginkgo]

No

[errant cairn]

k

[pine ginkgo]

But they’re used for things

[errant cairn]

some kind of ||better med kit||

[pine ginkgo]

Yep

[errant cairn]

but i havent unlocked it despite using it

[pine ginkgo]

Did you find one?

[errant cairn]

find the ||better med kit?|| yea

in the ||crash zone base||

[karmic drum]

Oh I know what I'm missing. I just didn't want to type out a spoilered message xD

[errant cairn]

||i have a max range scanner room in the mountains and it hasnt found a single sunbeam wreck just scaning for wrecks||

[pine ginkgo]

Well ||its not a wreck||

[errant cairn]

then ||what is it||

[unreal flame]

||the mountains are a decently large, even a maxed out scanner room won't cover it adequately (not to mention you run into issues at maximum range)||

||if your scanner is near the QEP you may want to move it further into the biome||

[errant cairn]

but i should have at least found ||one sunbeam debri right???||

||its not even in the scanner room and im like 200 or 300m from the qep||

[trail ether]

why do you assume just finding an item unlocks it

[errant cairn]

its possible esp considering the code i've written

[errant cairn]

does using too many console commands curse your save? if so thats prolly what happened to my last save

i know certain ones brake it in certain ways but ive lost track of how many i used in either save

[barren oar]

for the record, there is a method to escape early with as little as 15% damage, which you have access to right now

i'd encourage experimenting to figure it out

its not a vanilla feature

[barren oar]

i do know c2c tracks them, but i havent seen any sort of "anticheat" triggered by too many of them

[pine ginkgo]

is the ||falling debris module global? and how long does falling debris take? I feel like I've been waiting for significantly longer than normal.||

[barren oar]

yes, ive heard its like half an hour give or take

[worldly valve]

Did bio reactors get hard nerfed?

[worldly valve]

Its global

It can be as low as once an hour

[karmic drum]

Huh... whatever that is. I'll have to look into that

[pine ginkgo]

its been like 4-5 hours

😭

I got my first one and they just decided to stop spawning

[worldly valve]

Oof

And you uave the module made i bet

Thats rough

Ignor them for now

Get deeper

[pine ginkgo]

I need it to get ||nanocarbon||

thats my bottleneck rn

[worldly valve]

Oh you are there alteady

||you are past river?||

[pine ginkgo]

||I need it for mk3 for moth||

but yea Ive explored ||most of the river||

[sterile cobalt]

i hope sea to sea becomes 2.0 compatible...

i'd die to wait for that dream come true!

[worldly valve]

Eait its in mk3??????

I guess it iss..

Weird

Earlier than it used to be isnt it

[worldly valve]

It wont

If not on epic just go to legacy

This is easily the best mod for subnautica

[unreal flame]

how it feels to chew 5 gum

[fiery fiber]

lol sorry i have no cool what that means. Gonna have to learn how to do this step by step

[errant cairn]

When Nautilus exits the pre-release stages

Which honestly might not be soon™

[karmic drum]

I'd love to see it on 2.0, but I'm also cool on legacy since I know that mashing it with too many other mods can seriously break progression

And that was my whole thing at first. Was loosing all my 2.0 mods. But pretty much none of them would've worked with c2c anyway 😂

[solemn storm]

Is there any trick to getting my stalker in the ACU to ||use the chew toy I made for it||? It's three stories high, and has a good variety of prey fish and plants.

[errant cairn]

curse bonesharks

what is the mod required to get ||blood crawler larva|| or is it even required??

[barren oar]

wdym mod

that is an item added by c2c

[barren oar]

ive found they do generate but the teeth are abysmally small

might be that the ecosystem isn't set up though - i think they need prey and flora specific to the kelp forest biome in order to generate anything

use the acu information attachment for more information

[karmic drum]

||so turns out that pyropitcher pods. Are really good bio reactor fuel||

Like seriously those things just go

[karmic drum]

Oh... so the acu is what someone was talking about for stalker teeth

[errant cairn]

i was told that i needed a mod to get the larva to spawn for whatever reason

[barren oar]

there is a mod that fixes their spawn, since they sometimes are bugge

[errant cairn]

ah okay

has anyone achieved the feat of getting nitrox to work with this modpack?

[flint aspen]

I dont think getting it to work once is the problem... Rather keeping it working for the 100h+ at least that are required to finish a run.

[errant cairn]

real

[flint aspen]

I tried Nitrox once without any mods and it was already unplayable after a few hours :/

[pine ginkgo]

Yea unfortunately every time I try nitrox with a friend its just not great

I mean its great for a community effort but it really does suck just how often you run into an issue

[flint aspen]

The mod works fine but it will make a later step in progression impossible so i would remove it after farming a bunch of them. You can always add it again if you need more although ive heard if once activated it works even after removing it.

[pine ginkgo]

Yea I used the command and immediately removed the mod

Although your save might have them

I made mine back around May 20th

[trail ether]

it will not do so visually

I like the idea of it doing that but I do not know how and it is not really worth a ton of time

[barren oar]

presumably you already have most of the work done by stalkers chasing after shinies in vanilla

[solemn storm]

This might be it. I've got a little bit of everything going on in there.

[karmic drum]

Ok. So my seamoth can't do anything below 200 meters. But is there anything stoping me from putting a recon base at say 350? Or will it start exploding from pressure?

[barren oar]

nah bases are strong they can be placed anywhere lol

[karmic drum]

||aight dope. Gonna make finishing off lifepod 12 way easier||

[solemn storm]

Bases with attached air-pumps have carried me through a lot of tricky cave systems. They're great.

[karmic drum]

I've just been running around with a second or third ultra capacity tank and storage mods on my seamoth

[loud python]

C2C 2.0 yet? 😄

[karmic drum]

||just went from lifepod to the ecological anomaly on nothing but a seaglide 😂||

https://tenor.com/view/wow-meme-gif-25742319

[silk pond]

that should be impossible

oh nvm

idk what im thinking

[karmic drum]

||strapped an Azurite battery in that bitch and prayed for dumb luck||

[karmic drum]

||you thought I said the dead zone huh?||

[silk pond]

||i thought u ment u went from the eco anomaly to the void lifepod||

[karmic drum]

||No. It might be possible to reach the void boundary with a few creature decoys. But I'd almost certainly get killed on the way to the pod||

[silk pond]

||yeah i just went to the lifepod today and it would be almost impossible to get there without the upgrade||

[karmic drum]

/also last time I checked you can't out run reapers on a seaglide. And I outran 4. I think the Azurite battery might be making it faster?

[karmic drum]

||yea. I'm still trying to work up the perimeter defense upgrade for the seamoth. I have every for the polyanaline. But I'm still missing that lym-whatever emzyme||

||no I don't want to know where it is ||

[silk pond]

that is not the upgrade im talking about

[karmic drum]

Oooh. Then I haven't found what you're talking about

[silk pond]

it is later in the game

[karmic drum]

I'm jumping around a lot in terms of progress

||Like I have the seamoth mk1 and 2 depth modules. But I don't know how to make the microfilters for the mk1||

||I think I got a crack pot plan for getting to lifepod 15.... I'm also almost certain that going to the void is how I unlock the photophotaic plankton||

[errant cairn]

Wish ya luck there

[karmic drum]

||two seamoth speed upgrades, extra powercells, creature decoys, and pray that I can either outrun the reapers, or don't get munched when I have to stop to change the batteries. Actually... I don't know if those speed upgrades can stack 🤔 might just be one speed upgrade, decoys, and a sonar upgrade 🤔||

[errant cairn]

oh i didnt grind that many resources'

[karmic drum]

I just have a bunch of extra stuff on hand rn

[errant cairn]

how do i get ||blood crawler larva||???

ive made a huge effort and even did some extra stuff to try to find it but never could

its like my sunbeam debris, just doesn't exist

[errant cairn]

is my save corrupted again?

[silk pond]

||bruh how r u looking for larva but dont have microfilter?||

[solar vortex]

||dont you need microfilter to go that deep?||

[errant cairn]

i do tho

[solar vortex]

||oh ok||

havent played in a bit. didnt know there was sea voyager intergration

[errant cairn]

uhm

sure

im totally not directly responsible for it being nerfed to the ground

[solar vortex]

lol

[errant cairn]

like reika

it does need a nerf. not to the fucking ground almost literally 😭

[solar vortex]

||blood kelp nest has not magically fixed itself :( ||

still no idea what do abt this

[errant cairn]

im encountering the same problem

[errant cairn]

okay i think i figured it out

so i run console commands. a lot of em. its just how i roll in all of sn.

you run to many of em in this pack

you end up missing out on large amounts of progression

including the "bugs" i have been experiencing throught my 2 saves

and im not restarting my over a day save just to recover some spawns i may or may not need later

[karmic drum]

Yea.... so I made it into the deadzone. I did not however make it back out

[errant cairn]

now i wish fucking SOMEONE told me what the actual hell happens when you run too many console commands

now that i know, ill try to keep it in mind for the next non existant 70 hour c2c playthrough

[karmic drum]

They were on my ass like white on rice

I mean... generally spamming console commands isn't a good idea in most games

[errant cairn]

i fuckin do it anyway

[karmic drum]

Well then it's nothing to do with c2c. You played with fire

[errant cairn]

Yar...ye play with fire and sometimes ye get burned

(haha yes fnaf ucn reference)

[solar vortex]

what happens??????

[errant cairn]

removes a large portion of pogression

[karmic drum]

https://tenor.com/view/careful-icarus-craig-ferguson-icarus-gif-12108154

||By nothing short of dumbluck I got my hands on al Alkaline vine sample||

[errant cairn]

nice

[karmic drum]

Another plant next to it caused it to wig out and not retreat into the dirt on my approach

But so far it's just another piece in a far larger puzzle that I haven't solved yet

[solar vortex]

||getting the recipe it's used in?||

assuming this isn't supposed to happen

wait

this is after i loaded a file i took the spinners out of the acu???

occupancy is still zero so

[errant cairn]

Wait how do you get your first batch of ||lysing whatever enzymes||? Was there a recipe for ||Digestive Enzymes|| that I forgot about?

[barren oar]

(@errant cairn too) use the fixer, run the command, then remove it ||https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/2328||

it causes issues with other things if you have it installled, but you can run it once and it will fix it for your save permanently

[errant cairn]

I did

I know what the problem is though

[errant cairn]

.

[barren oar]

console commands do not hinder your progression as far as i know

[errant cairn]

I spawned some of them after giving up and they just despawn instantly

And ||the one that spits at you|| never spawned

And the generators were fixed

By the mod

[barren oar]

it would be quite backwards since reika herself would have to use commands to test, lest she's spend dozens of hours testing a single update

[errant cairn]

Yeah but she doesn't build up hundreds if not, thousands per save

[barren oar]

ive used my fair share of commands too and i can confidently say the things did spawn, after running the fixer

in the correct area

[errant cairn]

Heres the thing: ||my sunbeam debris doesn't spawn either|| at all

[errant cairn]

I did that

[barren oar]

its really buggy

takes a while to spawn

[errant cairn]

Define a while

[barren oar]

even if it detects it

anywhere from instant to never

also i think there may be a limit on spawned items too

in the sense that you need to pick up whats already spawned to get more

[errant cairn]

I spawned the entity, not the item

[barren oar]

thats what it seemed like whenni was playing at least

yes the entity that spawns items

that is indeed whatbi was talking Abt

[errant cairn]

It stays????

Every time I picked it up (yes, even in creative) it despawned

[barren oar]

oh yeah there's no reason for it to exist anymore if its picked up lol

but wasnt this about the debris' items not spawning in the first place

[errant cairn]

Yeah except in my survival save it never spawned

I had to spawn in a few pieces to get what I wanted

[errant cairn]

No it was about ||blood crawler larva||

[solar vortex]

and i don't either xd

[errant cairn]

I do

[barren oar]

idk then, all i can say is ive partially cheated my way through c2c too (tungsten be damned), and the scannable debris was spawning, the debris' items was spawning after some time of either waiting around it or going to another debris scan in the meantime, and running the nest fixer did permanently cure my save on this front

[solar vortex]

last time i tried this having it installed just broke mod loading
ill try again ig

[errant cairn]

Ohhhh what if its updating that breaks my saves?

Cause it happened to my last save as well

Almost the exact same situation

[karmic drum]

||I really need to find these micro filters...||

I must've missed a clue somewhere

[unreal flame]

which commands were you even using

I once used a load of commands to move things along after losing a bunch of progress to a broken cloud save and I had no issues. admittedly this was quite some time ago, but...

[barren oar]

the fucking compass patch of all things?

[barren oar]

updates usually arent enough to cause bad saves i think

[solar vortex]

yeah i don't know

[solar vortex]

i don't remember the original hint to this uhhhh

[barren oar]

the hint is you need to Explore and Find

[solar vortex]

true i guess

[barren oar]

i dont think there was anything more specific for that item in particular

ive never seen it at least

[karmic drum]

That it is.... it's just... grating since my largest and only real progression bottle neck right now

[barren oar]

you do have a way to see what biomes you have not fully explored yet (in terms of c2c progression)

and dont forget about scanner rooms either

[karmic drum]

Yea. I've already a few of the more minor biomes done

And I have at least 5 recon bases setup around the map currently

Making up for my lack of depth ready seamoth by carrying 3 ultra tanks on me whenever I explore

Lets me go deeper and farther than my craft can

[barren oar]

cant say ive had times when i needed more than a tank before getting the mk1 depth module

despite going into deeper biomes than would be advised at that stage of the game

[karmic drum]

I've been exploring so hard that I've accidentally wandered into the void a few times

||Seaglide with an Azurite battery goes ZOOM||

[barren oar]

yeah its kinda goated

you dont have a faster mode of transportation above like 100m or something

i think its effectiveness goes down under that

or 200

[karmic drum]

I mean my seamoth is technically faster. Though not by much. And the seaglide is quiet enough that I can glide in the radius of reapers and ghost leviathans without setting them off

[barren oar]

you have the dash module?

i dont think i ever found it

and i believe its slower than the glide without it

[karmic drum]

No. Not yet. I do have a speed upgrade from another mod the c2c creator uses her in setup though

[barren oar]

o

ic

[karmic drum]

Still though. Glide is overall better rn

Unless I'm hauling mats

[barren oar]

you unfortunately lose out on storage and oxygen area

ya

and general safety

repairing the moth is much cheaper than repairing yourself

also utility because you can use the trucker module...

actually theres a surprising lot of drawbacks when it comes to not using the seamoth

[karmic drum]

Funny enough the only dangers I've ever suffered on the glide have been environmental like heat or drooping stingers

[barren oar]

oh you'll encounter some high dangers without the seamoth later for sure

[karmic drum]

I actually went from my lifepod to the ecological deadzone on my azurite charged glide where my seamoth couldn't make the journey

[karmic drum]

Yea

But ideally by that time

I've found the microfilter recipe

[barren oar]

yep cant reach that stage of game without em

[karmic drum]

I already found the mk2 recipe. But died of oxygen deprivation... so decided I wasn't gonna go back for that until I needed it

Spent hours tracking down purple tablet reciples. Learned that could wait till later 😅

[barren oar]

lol

[weary bison]

Anyone knows why ||falling material|| stopped spawning?

[weary bison]

Nvm it spawned finally

[solemn storm]

What items are the ||sunbeam debris|| supposed to provide, and how can I get them to spawn? I've checked out every scanner blip in range, and none of them seem to have anything.

[errant cairn]

||warp|| mostly

[unreal flame]

just teleportation commands??

i guess that could mean skipping a few things by accident but it shouldn't like, ruin a save

[errant cairn]

Warping from base to base mainly but I did warp into a wall trying to find a cave not in that trench

I did try to retrigger the sunbeam event to try to get the ||debris|| to spawn

[errant cairn]

Thats the only other commonality between my first and this save

[errant cairn]

||do super seaglide with it||

[errant cairn]

Im encountering the same problem

[karmic drum]

/what's that?

[errant cairn]

legacy bug where if youre in a flooding base and your underwater and exit the base it will go 3x faster

[karmic drum]

Ahh... yea I'll pass on any exploits

[errant cairn]

||my purple tablet fragments respawned||

[karmic drum]

Free tit? 😅

[errant cairn]

no i think stuff respawned let me check a few things

||the qep ion cubes did||

[karmic drum]

||also am I crazy? Or is the thermal vent between the shallows and kelp forest just spitting up all manner or rare metals? Like I've cleaned it out a few times. And there's always more at the base of the vent.||

[errant cairn]

||the qep moonpool door is unlocked even though i havent and the door doesnt even require a purple tablet to unlock it||

[errant cairn]

its done the same for me

[karmic drum]

||so just a bottomless supply of free rare and common mats then ||

[errant cairn]

||the modification terminal also ceased to exist||

[errant cairn]

sure

if you can get to them without dying

[karmic drum]

Your save might be fucked

[errant cairn]

||the purple tablet inside the qep respawned||

[karmic drum]

I mean sometimes it just isn't firing at all

[errant cairn]

might've been the mod i tried to run

[errant cairn]

this is true

[barren oar]

yeah they just do that

[karmic drum]

So I can just make a few trips and get everything down there

[barren oar]

||glass forest sucks for this exact reason btw theres like 10 vents there||

[karmic drum]

That is... honestly insane. I short of assumed that most metalic resources were entirely limited

[barren oar]

c2c pretty forgiving in this manner

[errant cairn]

honestly im not reseting my over a day save just to regenerate some stuff

im waiting for the next c2c update to hopefully fix everything after ive done it

[karmic drum]

I'm gonna play this to my knowledge and shift my focus from exploration to infrastructure expansion

[barren oar]

i do doubt any saves would retroactively fix anything

er

Updates*

[karmic drum]

||which works out well since I just got the power bank prints last night||

[errant cairn]

well hopefully it magically fixes itself cause im still playing and not reseting

[barren oar]

they either just dont break anything or cause progression breakage so severe you should restart

[errant cairn]

im in that situation. ive already restarted once and on top of that a lot of stuff i need has just vanished

specific things have disapeared and i dont think i can document exactly what because a lot of them

[barren oar]

lol

sounds about right for sn

[errant cairn]

all the water currents

[karmic drum]

A beta mod on the old sn engine. Yea it's gotta be played with care 😂 😂 😂

[errant cairn]

this is just not worth it

[karmic drum]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-hahaha-gif-22505124

@barren oar thanks for the tip/info on those vents

[barren oar]

what

[karmic drum]

Oh. The thermal vents. I was just passing along thanks for clearing that up

[barren oar]

oh

i see lol

[sterile cobalt]

who's the dev of sea to sea? i want to ask them where the void thalassaceans are...

[pine ginkgo]

Reika

shes not online right now

[sterile cobalt]

oh ok!

thanks for letting me know

[pine ginkgo]

she speaks here frequently

[sterile cobalt]

i just went back to legacy just to see what the newest sea to sea version has to offer

does sea to sea also add any new leviathans besides the abyssal terror?

[pine ginkgo]

no

[sterile cobalt]

well that sucks...

[pine ginkgo]

I don't think it matches the goal of the mod too much anyways

Leviathans are cool but not sure how much playtime itll add

[karmic drum]

Leviathan mods are... more of a novelty then they something which actually adds any engagement to play time

Mods in example such as return of the ancients, and the red plague. Get a large share of the their social popularity both in and out of the subnautica communities from their mega fuana. But it is the actual gameplay extending, altering, and enhancing gameplay and story elements. Which keep people coming back to revisit the mod on new beta updates

[sterile cobalt]

does this mod require any dependencies bc when i open legacy it says that the mod couldn't be loaded...

[karmic drum]

Yes. If read over the dragon industries website. It lists a variety of dependencies which make up c2c

c2c itself is less of a singular massive mod. But rather a small and rigorously fine tuned modpack.

[sterile cobalt]

is there a link bc i think it also requires ecocean?

[pine ginkgo]

yea

its all of reikas mods

https://reikakalseki.github.io/subnautica/index.html

if you plan on playing it Id recommend only playing with QoL mods and no extra content mods

I think C2C is best played on its own, and it also helps avoid any issues

also know that the playtime of a single save can easily go past 100 hours, its a very long mod

[karmic drum]

Do bear in mind that this mod is presently in it's beta phases, takes an exceptionally long time to complete, and will more than likely be updated to subnautica 2.0 as soon as the Nautilus mod exits it's pre-release phase and receives it's first proper and stable release

I myself am twenty-six hours in. And have barely begun to tap into the mods content

[karmic drum]

Reika herself has a list of sea to sea approved mods somewhere earlier in this chat. But it's not pinned. So if anyone is interested I'd he happy to repost it

Bearing in mind however. That almost all of the mods are either found off nexus. Or have to have older versions downloaded from nexus.

As the current updates for almost all of those mods which are present on nexus are updated to the 2.0 update.

[pine ginkgo]

All those are QoL Im pretty sure

[karmic drum]

Yes. Some which verge on being content mods. But none which impeed, reroute, or dramaticially increase sea to sea progression.

[sterile cobalt]

also what are void thalassaceans?

[pine ginkgo]

if they were big enough Reika would make compatibility for them anyways

[pine ginkgo]

where are you looking?

the wiki?

[sterile cobalt]

there's a wiki? well i was looking at the textures...

[pine ginkgo]

well the wiki is heavily outdated

[sterile cobalt]

well i downloaded all the required mods from reika's website but it still says the mod couldn't be loaded...

[pine ginkgo]

are you in legacy

[sterile cobalt]

yes

[pine ginkgo]

hmm, show us your mod folder

[pine ginkgo]

You're probably gonna want to just start with the core mods for C2C then add things until you find out whats breakign it

like I said before, its a mod best played on its own

I do think it has compatibility with ROTA

If you do keep some content mods Reika may make compatibility for them

[barren oar]

i think they, judging by their name, might be in the void, but im not sure

[pine ginkgo]

C2C completely changes progression, so a lot of content mods can break that easily and need to be rebalanced

[barren oar]

they only spawn if you have de extinction installed too as far as i recall

[sterile cobalt]

wait? i downloaded sea to sea on reika's site, was that the correct site?

or did i miss something?

[pine ginkgo]

no you got it right

its the other mods that are likely having compatibility issues with it

[sterile cobalt]

oh

[pine ginkgo]

also just as a side note, I'd advise against looking at the source/textures for anything related to the mod. A bulk of the mods content is finding/exploring things yourself, even if you ask people here they will probably just give you a hint instead of telling you the answer.

[sterile cobalt]

also idk if bepinex is required along with qmod considering that they're different types of mod loaders i believe?

[pine ginkgo]

I think you just need Qmods for it

[sterile cobalt]

isn't it compatible with the legacy version of rota?

[pine ginkgo]

Id have to wait for Reika to get online

[barren oar]

qmodmanager uses bepinex as its entry, so you do need to install bepinex too yes

[pine ginkgo]

weird, I don't remember having to install it

probably just forgetting though

[barren oar]

definitely forgetting

though qmm was, initially, its own mod loader then changed to hitch a ride off bepinex, hence why it's basically a modloader inside a modloader

[sterile cobalt]

bepinex is the reason why seatosea isn't working, but i want to play rota along with it...

[barren oar]

that cannot be the case

i know i, myself, had bepinex installed and could run c2c just fine

maybe you're saying you're on the 2.0 update? in which case yes, c2c is only designed to work on legacy

[sterile cobalt]

no im on legacy...

[barren oar]

please do share what error you're getting and the structure of your sn folder, then

nobody can offer much help without those

[karmic drum]

Are you cetrain that you downloaded the legacy file for Benipex? Installing the 2.0 file would cause profound issues.

[sterile cobalt]

idk but where is the legacy file for bepinex?

[barren oar]

bepinex is completely unrelated to subnautica

there is no legacy (or otherwise) specific version

[karmic drum]

Oh

My bad

[barren oar]

bepinex is a general-use unity modloader

[trail ether]

Auroresource does that

[trail ether]

I second that

@errant cairn you are the only person who has had multiple saves break in a row and I cannot buy that that is coincidence

you clearly are doing something

stuff - even vanilla stuff - respawning makes it sound like the CellsCache got wiped

[karmic drum]

A very appreciated addition

[trail ether]

which A) is a common thing people do to "fix" things, following terrible "common knowledge" and B) would explain the CoordinatedSpawns failing too

[trail ether]

those vents generate less for this reason

[errant cairn]

Theres only a few consistencies between my two saves

Other than them breaking

[trail ether]

I want you to stop and think about what you just said

[errant cairn]

• Updated
• Spammed TP
• Something was already broken and ran a few commands trying to fix it/ran a few other tests

[trail ether]

though given later comments about "aw why only one leviathan" and not reading the website....

[errant cairn]

warpme was very promminent

[trail ether]

you are missing an "against" here

[trail ether]

now add this...

honestly I have a pretty clear picture that you seem to be...shall we say the target audience of mods like this and are going in to C2C expecting more of the same https://i.imgur.com/Z8JNHxA.png

if my suspicion is correct you will not like C2C, and it will probably not like you either

[karmic drum]

I like the way you talk and handle things. It has a directness which is seldom appreciated

[errant cairn]

intresting wording...

[errant cairn]

oh and

• seemingly broke for no reason

[trail ether]

• updating does not break saves, except a couple specific cases where I make explicit breaking changes, and cannot add migration functionality; moreover, look at my save - it updates every time I build, ie 30+ times for every update you get
• not likely to break things on a technical level but certainly indicative of a "fuck it" attitude
• "ran a few commands trying to fix it" is extremely vague

[karmic drum]

That, would be the autism. Which I am making no attempts to leash or restrain

[errant cairn]

Intresting

[trail ether]

expanding on that third point:

imagine if your car kept breaking down, and you went to the dealer saying "I don't understand all I did was drive it around, and a few times stuff seemed weird so I tinkered with a few parts"

that could mean anything from having had no effect to completely fucking it up

[errant cairn]

expanding on my own third point. ||Sunbeam debris|| never spawned. Trying to figure out why, I attempted to retrigger the ||Sunbeam Story event|| Dont remember what I did with my first save, think i did a few warps to look for things

[trail ether]

and how did you attempt to retrigger it?

[errant cairn]

Console commands

[trail ether]

yes, what command

precursorgunaim? that would not break worldgen, as that just triggers StoryGoals

but who knows what else you tried

[errant cairn]

startsunbeamstoryevent,sunbeamcountdownstart, precursorgunaim, and playsunbeamfx

only the last one worked

[trail ether]

I do not know the last of those but the first two sound like similar story triggers

however running commands like this is VERY dangerous for C2C

do you have any idea how tightly it couples to StoryGoals

now, worldgen is not among the things I would expect to break

that is not in any way tied to the SGs

but there is a lot that is

[errant cairn]

the last triggered the event with no audio or the ||QEP angling down to accurately hit the sunbeam||

[trail ether]

as I would expect

[trail ether]

aso refer to this

you had things like the QEP tablet - which I in no way touch - respawn

[errant cairn]

I never touched a single piece of the files other than the log

[trail ether]

that is classic "I deleted the cellscache" manifestation

[trail ether]

that is not the only way to break things

for example that mod that alleges to fix things

maybe it tries to fuck with the CellsCache

[errant cairn]

I have no idea how to delete the cellscache nor did I know they existed until today

[trail ether]

there is a reason I tell people I cannot verify it nor do I in any way recommend it

[errant cairn]

Maybe. I'll look at the source.

[trail ether]

the fact that vanilla objects respawned meansa whatever broke cannot be something in C2C, or even SML

[trail ether]

the CellsCache is basically the game's storage of "deltas" to the map

analogy:

you play Satisfactory - have you ever seen the devs or anyone else say, or run into this yourself, that the more foliage you remove the larger your save gets?

and consequently the longer the load times get, and so on

and sometimes they release an update and everything respawns

that happened with 1.0.9 or something like that, in october, ie a minor fix update just after 1.0

[errant cairn]

intresting

[trail ether]

this is because the SF map storage seems to work very similarly to in SN, where you have the map data itself, which has everything vanilla in it

and then you have a separate data structure tracking how it was modified

every time you cut a tree ,that goes into that log

as such the game, at runtime, knows what to remove from the world entities

[errant cairn]

Source: https://github.com/DiusFirius/SubnauticaMods/blob/master/SeaToSeaWorldGenFixer/GenFixer.cs

[trail ether]

("remove" here does not necessarily imply a literal add and then remove again; it may be something like a load injunction)

anyway the CellsCache is that deltas file

and as it happens "try deleting your CellsCache" is one of the most common pieces of advice given to people experiencing strange behabior

I have no idea why

what idiot started that

[errant cairn]

but it seems something deleted every CellsCache file

and C2C never regenerates it

[trail ether]

but it is one of those long-standing pieces of "common knowledge" that people just repeat without thinking

[errant cairn]

SN does, but not C2C

[trail ether]

xample https://i.imgur.com/xdbD2Rt.png

@normal frigate you should see that

[trail ether]

it is a vanilla file

not a C2C one

i am not 100% sure but I seem to remember it being segmented by batch - effectively SN's version of Chunks

[errant cairn]

Interesting considering Water Currents never regenerate either

[trail ether]

there is no such thing as a "C2C cellscache"

[errant cairn]

okay

[trail ether]

why would they? they are worldgen added after the fact

as such deleting all record of things added to the map will cause the game to load the vanilla map

with no changes

[errant cairn]

interesting didnt know that

I CAN ENGLISH I SWEAR

[karmic drum]

Common knowledge, and by extension common psychology. Are aggravating hehaviors to both observe and exist outside of 😔

[errant cairn]

So what the actual fuck could have deleted my cellscache? And are bases not part of the cellscache? All of my bases were fine in both saves

[trail ether]

no bases are not

they are not part of batch data

[normal frigate]

Not really, I've only said it about 5 times as a potential fix as it has worked multiple times in my case.

Also its been here in the server as a fix for a long while now [see here](#🔧┃quick-fixes message)

[trail ether]

I never said you started the rumor

but it is undeniable that you have been one of the people repeating it, and as it happens you both were the first result in the search and someone who is in this channel to be pinged about it

[barren oar]

thats really the best way to remove an object in a bugged state (to the point it doesnt allow you to do much in-game, such as crashing or not letting one load in) though, yeah?

afaik there isnt any sort of external save explorer ala minecraft's nbt viewer utility

i dont know if that was its name or slightly odf

which, at least personally, i have been a subject of in the ||bkelp base|| (albeit the issue has since long been fixed, to my knowledge, for i was able to load in on my recent save after a long wait)

[errant cairn]

real quick will grabbing a new set of C2C altered cellscache restore my save?

[solar vortex]

ok no verifying game files did not magically fix the mod loading problem from earlier

it took a while so i assume it did something???

[errant cairn]

@trail ether

[solar vortex]

i have no clue how the bkelp nest patcher mod is somehow making something go wrong with the compass???

[errant cairn]

Just get the map mod. Better IMO

[solar vortex]

?

mb i mean its breaking mod loading

im poorly reading off of the log

[trail ether]

I assume you mean NBTExplorer https://i.imgur.com/uhGeCeE.png

[trail ether]

someone would have to reverse-engineer the save file format

which oddly it seems noone has ever done

so many games people have done it

yet never SN

[trail ether]

there is no such thing

that is like asking if you can restore your ability to use programs on your PC by grabbing "a set of altered files"

there is no such singular set

the files are not something C2C modifies directly, with some known set of changes

their content depends entirely on your specific save, what areas you loaded and when, how entities moved, what you grabbed and where (including fish and ores), et cetera

[trail ether]

remove that mod

[trail ether]

perhaps but it has grown to become a standard troubleshooting step for all issues people may experience, on the level of rebooting your PC is for system issues

mod does not load? try deleting CellsCache

FPS too low? try deleting CellsCache

entity moves oddly? try deleting CellsCache

render bug? try deleting CellsCache

[trail ether]

to the point where people tend to do it before even asking for help

like just look at the search results for "CellsCache" on this server

tons of them are people being told to do, it but just as many are people saying something to the effect of "i already tried deleting CellsCache and my problem persists", strongly indicating that it has become a standard step

[trail ether]

also @barren oar there is an actual NBTEdit mod for use ingame, which is far more convenient for all cases except trying to fix a crash

that particualr jar is for 1.7.10 obviously

but that is what I have since I am on 1.7.10

[barren oar]

fair

but also 2/4 of those can most definitely be created by invalid objects, which deleting the cache would infact help with

[barren oar]

this is also true, yes

though deserialisation is all available through a decompiled protobuf handling class

dont have the link to it right now but its in the same "directory" that lee(?)'s sn1-prefab_paths.json file is

so i think it would be less a matter of reversing and more translating that into an nbtexplorer-like structure

[barren oar]

oh

that makes sense lol

[trail ether]

/nbtedit is how you use it

optionally add me to NBTEdit yourself

or just look at a TileEntity while running the command to NBTEdit that

I do it all the time in dev

putting machines into some state, or setting up player data

[barren oar]

thats convenient for sure

[trail ether]

and I use it regularly in actual play too, either fixing an issue or debugging

[barren oar]

nice qol usage

[trail ether]

as you can inspect the internal state of most TEs that way

though be warned not all mods' machines are so readily comprehensible

some use complicated structures that do not stringify well - I think IC2 was a bad offender for this - and others store a lot of the data not on the TE but instead just have the TE hold a reference to some key that the mod uses to look up in a static cache

[solar vortex]

i have

[trail ether]

network-type TEs like AE do that but so does...OpenBlocks I think

or was it ExU

[barren oar]

as long as it works yea lol

[trail ether]

actually it has been years so my memory of what mods had machines that were hard to use NBTEdit with should be taken skeptically

though I do remember from looking at their code that some of the "old tekkit" mods often used weird NBT

[barren oar]

the key method does sound nicer to work with, admittedly

[trail ether]

BuildCraft, RailCraft, etc

[barren oar]

than having your way with nbt

[trail ether]

it is a lot harder to set up and a lot more fragile

since you need to then set up a save/load hook for your data, a system that can fail

[barren oar]

fair

[trail ether]

this is not TEs but remember how it is not uncommon for players to lose both ThaumCraft progress?

that is because it is stored separately rather than on the player data

and sometimes that system fails

granted storing it on the player like ChromatiCraft does has its own issue, namely if some other mod - cough morph cough cough AoA cough - overloads the player NBT with crap so that the game just refuses to load it

[trail ether]

oh also multiblocks

Forestry, RailCraft and IE were annoying for this

it depends on how the mod imeplements MBs but in most mods there is a single "controller" type multiblock that is the actual worker and the rest of the blocks, if they are TEs at all, do nothing and store ltitle more than a reference to the master

however in some cases, I know for sure IE being one, the class is the same so it looks like you have a TE which is not initialized and has nulled data

but in fact it is just a component of the MB

also with IE the controller tends to be in the middle so good luck mousing over it

railcraft likes bottom middle, whereas for forestry the "gearbox" is usually the controller

for my own mods most of the MB is usually non-TE blocks, think the housings for ReactorCraft fusion fuel injectors or the crystalline stone structures for ChromatiCraft

[barren oar]

lol

yeah nbt is annoying because it has that limit

whether its intentional or a side effect, i couldnt say

[trail ether]

i went through it and never saw an explicit limit coded in so I think it is some unintentional implementation artifact

one of the steps is GZipping the data so maybe that is where the limit comes in

then again that is original Notch Code™️

and we all know what that is like

[barren oar]

as long as it works™ lol

[karmic drum]

I really need to stop inhaling the toxic plants

[karmic drum]

Ok. Legitimate question. Is the mircrofilter reciple essential to early game progression? Or am I over shooting?

[barren oar]

90% of the time, c2c items are required for progression yes

there is utility that isnt strictly required but, more often than not, you'll want to get it

it is very much accessible in the early game too

[karmic drum]

I have been up and down the map and found every blue print but that one. Which all roads seem to lead to 😂 😂 😂

I gotta be missing a wreck somewhere

[barren oar]

it will appear on an exploration tracker page, have you worked through them yet?

and dont try to go too deep, its required for the mk1 depth module after all

[karmic drum]

Been going around here and there. But I believe I only have a few biomes crossed off so far. Spent most of today setting up a new larger central base

[barren oar]

c2c doesnt have a problem which you can only solve by carrying more oxygen tanks

[karmic drum]

I know. That's what started this madness

[karmic drum]

I keep one on me and two spares

[barren oar]

all that wasted inventory space </3

[karmic drum]

Right now it's helping when exploring leviathan populated spaces. No poly means no perimeter defense, which means a super charged seaglide is less risky than taking my seamoth 🤣

[barren oar]

tbh i find the perimeter defense largely useless because it takes a precious upgrade slot

[karmic drum]

That's fair

I think I found it.... gotta do some crafting

But I think I found it

[barren oar]

holy shit‼️

[karmic drum]

Right under my damn nose

[barren oar]

yeah its pretty obvious in hindsight

comes with a free extra resource you'll need later too