SeaToSea

[trail ether]

hidecolliders

[worldly valve]

thank you

seamoth was red

[errant cairn]

will the scanner room even scan for fragments?

in vanilla?

[trail ether]

yes

oddly prawn ones are their own TechType and appear separately

[errant cairn]

okay so im not dumb

[trail ether]

but the rest all appear under "fragments"

with a scanner tool as the icon

[worldly valve]

ive lost my plankton

what did i change

am i goriwng too many?

[errant cairn]

that doesn't show for whatever reason

theres a seaglide fragment less than 100m from it

[worldly valve]

thid one get

[errant cairn]

???

[worldly valve]

still struggling with || the tongues||

ive lost my plankton

tho i have a damagin spot

[trail ether]

try forcibly registering its ResourceTracker, and then refresh the scanner room

[errant cairn]

found a lava geyser nearby

[errant cairn]

one side at the bottom

another

and that side doesn't have a fragment

not one

none

found out after exploring it

[errant cairn]

how?

[worldly valve]

ok i think i had too many lillies...or it was the accidental

||lumenshroom||

SO i think too many = no plankton

it was green for a half second

i tink i want oit to be green/purple

why\

why was it green

[errant cairn]

ive checked both lava geysers in the safe shallows and ive found nothing related to the ||mobile vehicle bay recipe item||

[worldly valve]

aw80m deep

[errant cairn]

yeah that one too

even that area

still nothing

[worldly valve]

cave

[errant cairn]

yeah

there too

still nothing

[worldly valve]

pretty sure you missedit

[errant cairn]

ill join vc to prove it

[worldly valve]

inner sphere

lilly sphere

i take damage without my suit here

[errant cairn]

i cant find shit

ive searched almost every kelp area and havent found shit

im exploring a mushroom forest cave and i'll go explore the last area

[worldly valve]

You sure you dont have the tech somehow?

That is super weird

[errant cairn]

which tech though

[worldly valve]

Tbh i thought you were in thr right cave

[errant cairn]

ive missed many techs

probably

[worldly valve]

|| drones||

[errant cairn]

cause i havent gotten there yet

[worldly valve]

||nano lathing drones||

[errant cairn]

||define drones||

[errant cairn]

||wdym get the tech for nano lathing drones?||

[worldly valve]

Check deployables in

[errant cairn]

they dont exist there'

[worldly valve]

Check deployables tab

[errant cairn]

only thing there is the mobile vehicle bay

[worldly valve]

And it requires 4 ||drones yes?||

[errant cairn]

and beacon and seaglide and water proof locker and grav trap but not the point

[worldly valve]

I think yiur world is bugged:( but im unsure

[errant cairn]

||also spoiler that. yes||

[worldly valve]

It looked like tue cave you wanted to me

I i too am wondering if im missing something or if there is still an issue🫠

I have the alt method but i still cant get it to work

Reika might have change sonething it what in tryna consider from the clues and convo a few days ago

[trail ether]

open that component on it with runtime editor and invoke the method

[trail ether]

did you install C2C properly

people missing worldgen has - very rarely - happened before but it was always the mod not actually being installed properly

[errant cairn]

define installed properly

and heres my current QMods folder

[trail ether]

as in "actually working properly"

are other features from the mod present

[errant cairn]

appears to be. everything is there

[trail ether]

is any worldgen from the mod present

[errant cairn]

i believe so

[errant cairn]

yes cause i found ||mercury||

[trail ether]

that is using a different system

what about the stuff using CoordinatedSpawns

[errant cairn]

new to this mod define some early game stuff

and ill look in creative

[trail ether]

go to pod 6

[errant cairn]

on it

ill check pod 15 as well cause i got the radio message for it in my main save

command is goto lifepod6?

[trail ether]

do not

[errant cairn]

ok

[trail ether]

no but c2c adds its own - c2cpoi pod6base

[errant cairn]

here in creative

[trail ether]

so yes

c2c worldgen is there

[errant cairn]

yea

and i found several other bases in survival as well

the ||QEP|| one as well

crashed when loading survival save

i did update recently (today)

[trail ether]

open your C2C install

inside XML/WorldgenSets what is there

[errant cairn]

here

[trail ether]

ok they are there

you should spoiler those

also not read them deeply

[errant cairn]

and

[trail ether]

even their names

[errant cairn]

read one just by staring at the screen dont remember it

[trail ether]

anyway the data is there

are you sure the gen is not

[errant cairn]

i am not sure

frag gen isnt there but base gen is

oh

but...

the ||pod's|| there, just not the base

i cursed my 10 hour save 😭

[trail ether]

well there you go

the mod is installed properly now

but it apparently was not previously

[errant cairn]

i updated a few hours ago so i wouldnt be surprised if i installed it improperly before updating

but heres my SS of when I installed it

[trail ether]

that does not show anything of significance

it does not show the internal folder - for example if you had SeaToSea/SeaToSea

it does not show the actual mod files

[errant cairn]

ah

[trail ether]

and hell one of the most common reasons for a broken install is not even visible from a cursory explorer screenshot anyway - some people's AV empties the DLL but keeps the file

that has come up a few times

[errant cairn]

well that would be hyper weird considering i'd have done the same thing if i just updated today

unless that was changed today in the release

[trail ether]

it did not

but you have to install the zip manually so it is entirely possible to do it correctly once and incorrectly once

"extract here" vs "extract to <dir>"

it is also entirely possible for a download to break

[errant cairn]

i didnt hit the extract button i just opened the zip and dragged the mod into the "QMods" folder

[trail ether]

not common, but it can happen

[errant cairn]

this is true

What should I do now?

[trail ether]

your save is not recoverable

as there is good reason to believe that the mod was not active at time of creation, as well as the time of a number of major milestones, your save is invalid in two separate ways

one any progression is likely invalid

and more importantly two there is all kinds of stuff that was never added or initialized

and you cannot know what in advance

[errant cairn]

Is it possible to recreate the same amount of progress on a new save with commands?

If not, I'd rather

• Play something else
  OR
• Make a new modpack without C2C
  Because it would just be that much easier than speed run 10 hours of grindy progress

Or continue the corrupted save
Cause I just think I'd be funny

[trail ether]

no

because the environment in which you got the progress cannot be trusted

moreover much of the progression is not just items

it cannot be simply cheated in

and for that matter the act of cheating stuff in itself has effects

[errant cairn]

thought so

[errant cairn]

was thinking about the scan data, the tech, the bases, and everything i explored. not just items

[trail ether]

most of that has no way to cheat it in

and you also have to worry about stuff like world state tracking

this is just an example but imagine something that spawns a collectable so long as you have not previously collected it

hell I said that was just an example but there are some cases of exactly that

[errant cairn]

so I should re-install SN + the mods (not redownload) and make a new save is what I gather from this message?

also is it possible QuickSlotsPlus broke it?

[trail ether]

i see no reason you need to reinstall anything now that it is confirmed working, assuming you have not messed with it since

and reinstalling SN itself is never necessary unless you had edited it

[errant cairn]

Okay then

[trail ether]

there is no mechanism by which that could happen unless that mod either broke C2C loading entirely - so that C2C was not even installed, or somehow QMM never tried to load it - or it somehow broke SML's CoordinatedSpawn system

but as a mod that has nothing to do with worldgen the latter is extremely unlikely and as to the former I have never seen another mod break C2C silently

you always get the red error dialog

[errant cairn]

interesting

[trail ether]

that said i recommend against adding tweak mods alongside C2C unless they are proven compatible

you never know how patches might interact

breaking c2c completely is unlikely but breaking some feature is a lot less so

there is a dump of my current QMods folder, which is the set I used in my last playthrough

all of those are known safe

FCS also is

[errant cairn]

Im noticing no QuickSlotsPlus...or any hotbar increase mods

[trail ether]

that does not necessarily mean there is a code conflict, just that I have never tested it

that said hotbar increase is a balance conflict

[errant cairn]

Which I like

[trail ether]

C2C is balanced against having four modules in vehicles

[errant cairn]

Thats just me

[trail ether]

SlotExtender is also confirmed safe but I patch it to keep things from getting too overpowered

[errant cairn]

I'd honestly prefer that, I just HATE having only 5 tools to be in the hotbar when I also wanna hold Jerry the Hoverfish

[trail ether]

and when I say "Balance" you need to realize that "balance" means something more fundamental here than it typically does in game design

it is not just like "the right level of difficult"

[errant cairn]

The game play loop

[trail ether]

no it is even harder

[errant cairn]

The game play loop is what you're after

Me personally I like the gameplay loop

[trail ether]

it is literally things like "if you use 20% less air then you can do something that is otherwise impossible, and skip the need to do this other chain of 30 things"

[errant cairn]

bruh

[trail ether]

that is why I said 90s of air from the bladder is such a problem

that 90 seconds will make the difference for a number of things

[errant cairn]

yeah im backporting air bladder upgrades (jk, but making a few tweaks and shoving in it a mod)

[trail ether]

C2C's progression is built around a series of "gates"

[errant cairn]

I mean tweaks like the repair tool doing 1% increments instead of 10 or 5%

[trail ether]

every single one of which is supposed to have one and only one method of passing

[errant cairn]

but still doing the same job

[trail ether]

all of these methods are interlocking, and form the progression of the mod

[errant cairn]

Which I also like

[trail ether]

and with it, yes, the gameplay loop

for example the need to visit X region, because that is where the sole databox is for something that enables you to pass some gate in an entirely different region Y

it is a complex web, building on vanilla

[errant cairn]

Yeah makes sense

and with my current build, its missing a large part of that web

[trail ether]

it makes C2C very sensitive to the game mechanics

not just binary behaviors but even numerical balancing

[trail ether]

this is no exception

[errant cairn]

ah ok

[trail ether]

there is a situation in which this limitation will be very relevant

and which you as the player are intended to realize the solution

if you were to use SlotExtender to have say six slots there is no such bottleneck and you will never even find yourself considering the matter

[errant cairn]

Which I dislike, but I want more hot bar slots. Might make a mod that does that and only that

[trail ether]

I cannot go into detail or even list all the things C2C cares about as that would be massively spoilery

[errant cairn]

shove it in the tweaks mod or something

[errant cairn]

fair

[trail ether]

I mean you can always just not use the additional slots

[errant cairn]

Tempted to do that tbh

[trail ether]

so if you have a mod that adds more tool slots but also adds module slots, you can ignore the latter without meaningful gameplay effect

[errant cairn]

but yeah i see your points

[trail ether]

and limiting held tool count is not something C2C ever makes use of

[errant cairn]

good

[trail ether]

inventory limitations frmo tools perhaps

but not the actual use slots

[errant cairn]

ohhhh ok

[trail ether]

I suppose I will say this - if something is proving grindy or onerous, travel aside (this is a known annoyance but one I have not found a good way around), chances are it is not the correct approach and there is an amelioration mechanism you are not using, or even you are pushing the envelope of what is even supposed to be possible

and outright getting yourself killed is never intended

[errant cairn]

do you have any suggestions as to what I could tweak in C2C and still not impact the game play (like the Air Bladder giving you 15s of O2 just like in 2.0 or BZ)?

[trail ether]

in fact I made death end the session (not delete the save, just force a reload, like in say HZD) to avoid people exploting suicide runs

[errant cairn]

Yeah. I can tell.

[trail ether]

that said there will be places where something is close, but not razor-edge close

places were you need to do something risky and which does not have a huge margin of error, but is still plenty doable even by me and my very poor player control

and preparation is always good advice

[errant cairn]

List is:

• Make repair tool do 1% instead of 5% but still perform the same job in the same time
• More tool slots
• Make the air bladder give 15s of 02 just like in Vanilla 2.0 or BZ

[trail ether]

that is basically the inverse of the "list of things it cares about"

[errant cairn]

YYYup :)

[trail ether]

while avoiding spoilers really the best i can do is answer to specific items

[trail ether]

like this

none of those are a problem

[errant cairn]

let me get to decompiling rq

[trail ether]

the most significant is the 15s of o2 but the margins are never that thin, and places where additional air could present a gate skip are harsh enoug hthat 15s would not be enough

especially given the way I implemented it

[errant cairn]

Could always make it less or more. Intentionally avoiding more

[trail ether]

the mod's page on my site does list a few things that are known to be problematic for balance but that list is spoilery, though written t o minimize that, and it is also written with the primary perspective of "what kind of mod is a problem"

[errant cairn]

Perfect ty

[trail ether]

that was written in response to, and is primarily about, the tendency for people to install C2C alongside super overpowered bullshit like player teleport chips and Red Baron

it also predates my outright blocking using C2C alongside the worst offenders

[errant cairn]

cough cough sea voyager cough cough

[trail ether]

sea voyager is more of an edge case since by defition it never gets you anywhere but the surface

[errant cairn]

but gets you places and give O2 for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE and is a portable base

[trail ether]

that said i have plans to address what impact it does have, but those got stalled by the fact it seemed not actually released and the way it was implemented

[errant cairn]

so I can see why its avoided/blocked

[trail ether]

there are also mods I just "Warn" about

edge case mods go in that list

including I think Sea Voyager

so you get a warning dialog but it is not sufficiently problematic that I outright prevent you

just repeatedly (ie once per boot) remind

[errant cairn]

how many are on that list (dont name)

[trail ether]

25 or so I think

let me check

ok the list has 49 items of which about 2/3 are blocked, the rest warn

[errant cairn]

okay

[trail ether]

and yes SeaVoyager is on the warn list

[errant cairn]

despite not working for me...interesting

[trail ether]

also a couple are duplicates, rpobably because the mod went by two different IDs

[errant cairn]

that was like a month ago though

[errant cairn]

ahh

[trail ether]

also the list is public

it is plainly there in the source

[errant cairn]

Ah ok

[trail ether]

most of its content is something you would see coming if you knew the mods it refers to

[errant cairn]

that will give me an idea on what will directly impact the gameplay and not give spoilers (right?)

[trail ether]

thisis true

https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/SeaToSea/blob/main/SeaToSeaMod.cs#L498

[errant cairn]

CC2 makes sense

[trail ether]

note that a couple of those are blocked for technical rather than balance reasons

CC2 is one of them

[errant cairn]

oh

[trail ether]

CC2 crashes if any mod removes vanilla recipes

C2C does that

[errant cairn]

weeeirrrrd

uiaerhuighrteuhguy4guybrthugryuhgahigrhgihaheruighrtuyigbnuo the pain of porting 2.0 air bladder to legacy is going to SUCK

[trail ether]

a couple are blocked not so much because of "direct" balance stuff but because they jeopardize fundamental assumptions

[errant cairn]

ah ok

[trail ether]

stuff like customizing spawns

you could use that either way, and if it was totally rerandomized it is not necessarily broken

but it could well be

[errant cairn]

true true very true

[trail ether]

it could also make something impossible by removing something C2C assumes you have, from the sole place you can get it when you need it

eg if it moved nickel below the LR

C2C assumes you will gain nickel via the LR, and your means of passing the LR depend on it

[pine ginkgo]

why can you eat the stalker chew toy 😭

[trail ether]

...oops

[errant cairn]

😂

[trail ether]

the answer is because it is templated on a cooked hoopfish

[errant cairn]

OOPS

[trail ether]

i mean

it is not the first time

2023 image https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/975264185086787634/1118730327028944940/20230614193419_1.jpg?ex=6862a08e&is=68614f0e&hm=ffe01cba2488de665e6980dae647162559c29757d1bbf830d725992e18feee94&

[pine ginkgo]

based on a nutrient block?

[errant cairn]

🤣

[trail ether]

yes

generally I template my items based on the world model they will use, before the retexturing and render material property changing

at least for basic items that do not have explicit behaviors

those get templated on whatever is closest

this goes for non-item things too

eg one plant is templated on voxel lily, another on redwort, another on rouge cradle

hell the seed of the last of those is templated on sea treader poop

[pine ginkgo]

||is the chew toy for helping to farm teeth or "bait" for abyssal stalkers to not take your platinum?||

I guess thats something Ill need to figure out

[trail ether]

that is a clver idea

the former but i kind of like the latter

that said it would not be fully effective

that mechanic cannot be something the player can completely negate

[pine ginkgo]

quite odd but I've found that a lot of fish are attracted to it when I drop it, not just stalkers

the hoopfish in the left there ran into it as well

[errant cairn]

im really sad now

[barren oar]

is that also why they heal on hit

because i dont remember the database mentioning much about being vampires lol

wanted to get rid of them once and for all once i obtained the prawn but they just would not let go

[errant cairn]

If sea voyager only warns me, then I'll be fine I think

It'll still be fun i hope

I think it will get me back into C2C even with my corrupted save

Should I do anything with that corrupted save btw? Can it stay there or does it ABSOLUTELY have to be deleted?

[barren oar]

you wouldnt know if something had gone wrong until its too late and you've invested time into it

I'd say to just cut your losses so you dont have to redo a 30h save or something

[errant cairn]

Yeah I have 10 hours in that save and most of that time was poured into to it today

[errant cairn]

But new mods

[pine ginkgo]

additionally, since a lot of C2C is figuring things out and finding locations of things, catching back up will not take as long

[barren oar]

new mods will not fix missing progression or invalid world state

well there is one mod that does that but its specifically coded to be so, as the generators it fixes dont spawn even on a healthy save sometimes

[pine ginkgo]

I swear there was an entry on the azurite battery but I cannot find it anymore

[errant cairn]

I just need to remember where everything is and im good?

I dont remember where half the stuff is

[barren oar]

well then exploration time?

[pine ginkgo]

well the only C2C things youve found are ||the azurite battery in the mountains and the nanolathing drones right?||

[errant cairn]

Mostly yeah

[errant cairn]

Didn't even find the latter. And only ||mercury|| as well

and i know where those are so I think as soon as I get sea voyager Ill Be Fine™

[barren oar]

how the fuck did you reach the third thing before finding the second

not an explicit progression gate but its way farther than you'd go before your first seamoth

[errant cairn]

||Mushroom forest||. Thats how

[errant cairn]

3 Tanks OP

[barren oar]

Fair

[errant cairn]

🤷

[barren oar]

i dont like using multiple tanks myself i want usable inventory and speed

[errant cairn]

real

[pine ginkgo]

I wonder if Reika should add some sort of penalty to multiple oxygen tanks

[errant cairn]

also does taking more inventory slow you down? I don't remember it doing that

[pine ginkgo]

I think for Ultra Capacity Tanks it does

it may be only when you're wearing it though

[errant cairn]

I mean...........The best way to counter that would be speed/ weight per seconds of O2 but otherwise idk

[barren oar]

do they not? ive heard there's slowdown a lot of times

[errant cairn]

I don't recall any, but I used a seaglide

[barren oar]

though i never really tested it either because of the aforementioned inventory issues

[pine ginkgo]

imagine subnautica but with like a valheim type of weight system

that would be awwful

[barren oar]

oh it might just slow down normal swimming speed which is basically nothing compared to the glide?

[errant cairn]

that'd just be insane yeah

[pine ginkgo]

or you could pick certain large items up and had to drag them haha

[barren oar]

propulsion cannon

[errant cairn]

Yeah IIRC swimming speed is entirely separate from the Seaglide speed

[pine ginkgo]

that could actually make for some interesting stuff

certain items locked behind the cannon

[barren oar]

i do wonder if that was the intended method to get fragments back when the fragment analyser existed

haul them back to your base for half an hour

[barren oar]

c2c does add some things you have to use cannon for

[pine ginkgo]

have sub 2 devs talked about any better modding tools/api for it

[barren oar]

prop and rep alike

[barren oar]

last i recall it was a non-answer in the ballpark of "we'll first focus on early access then worry about thinking about mods"

[pine ginkgo]

ye, but those are ||locked behind areas, I mean actually having to move the item back with you using the cannon. Unless that is a thing and I haven't gotten there yet.||

[barren oar]

in other words sn2 will be unbearably hard to mod because c++ stinks and, unlike c#, cant be easily traced back to its source

[barren oar]

ah nvm then i misunderstood

i feel it'd get more annoying than anything though

[pine ginkgo]

yea probably, maybe as a one time thing it could make for an interesting mechanic

[barren oar]

force you to make a temporary base nearby the location until you finish whatever you need

not like you wont have bases in pretty much every single biome in a c2c run though

[errant cairn]

You're missing things we discussed in other channels. Such as UE (Unreal Engine) Blueprints

Mod Loaders, tons of other things

Which reminds me @trail ether will you be modding SN2 at all? How about BZ?

[worldly valve]

have you got it to work post fix?

[pine ginkgo]

is it even worth modding bz?

[errant cairn]

Few people do. I'm not one of them

Mikjaw is, FalseLight_ is

those two I can name off the top of my head

[worldly valve]

yup

its why i say moth isnt that good

[errant cairn]

real

[pine ginkgo]

I think I'm going insane

I thought there was a log for azurite batteries but I cannot find it 😭

[worldly valve]

maybe ill try to do on creative

[errant cairn]

scanner in 5 minutes nice

what does this mean

[pine ginkgo]

thats a regular pda message

nothing about it

[errant cairn]

really? dont remember ever hearing it

[pine ginkgo]

thats one of the most memorable ones for me

its very obvious if they're from c2c

[errant cairn]

i have volume down

[pine ginkgo]

it'll be splcied off parts from other PDAs

[errant cairn]

so no i cant

[pine ginkgo]

ah

[errant cairn]

not none, down

got the ||nano lathing drones|| already

[trail ether]

it does not attract creatures

that is not what it does

[pine ginkgo]

well yea but they weirdly swim up to it when I drop it

[trail ether]

BZ is not good enough to justify it

and SN2 is not likely to be moddable for years and never to the same degree SN1 is

[errant cairn]

fair and valid

[trail ether]

moreover if you have to install a 400GB UE5 SDK I am not even going to bother

[errant cairn]

is this supposed to be here?

[pine ginkgo]

pretty sure its part of that wreck

and its not like it'd be game breaking progression

[errant cairn]

thats not a wreck

[pine ginkgo]

bioreactor frags are everywhere

[errant cairn]

thats a sea voyager fragment

[pine ginkgo]

ah

[trail ether]

no but while it is a bit ominous it is not an issue in its own right

[errant cairn]

okay

ty

finally mobile vehicle bay

[pine ginkgo]

I need to figure out whats causing sounds produced by C2C to be singnificantly louder than regular sounds

[barren oar]

are those not just compiled into c++ much like how c# compiles into il

[errant cairn]

sure, but theres a program that will compile C# into C++

[barren oar]

just run the genfix then remove it lol

[barren oar]

i mean i guess but it does still just about double your inventory space for about 25% longer expeditions or so

besides allowing you to go deep and not worry about base plankton until you have the means to deal with them

[barren oar]

i dont see how that helps?

[errant cairn]

lets us use what we know to mod SN2

[barren oar]

you still need to know how to read assembly to understand what a method compiled in c++ does

[errant cairn]

idk, but lets take this somewhere else

[barren oar]

i mean i guess you can make a similar copy in c# until you get the same instructions?

ah yeah fair

[worldly valve]

9th

have you got grains to work post fix?

[barren oar]

oh those i didnt try no

switching to legacy and setting up the mods again stinks

so yk im putting it off indefinitely

[errant cairn]

why cant i save in the lifepod

im running low on water

[pine ginkgo]

Thats your problem

You can’t have food or hunger < 20

[errant cairn]

bruh

i get it though

[pine ginkgo]

Its not that big a deal

[errant cairn]

failsafe

[barren oar]

presumably because you cant starve yourself to death to respawn with full and to not accidentally softlock yourself

which is great

[errant cairn]

yeah

[stone sapphire]

Also huh what plenty of people mod bz

[errant cairn]

now why cant i save

[errant cairn]

well i know very few who mod specifically bz

oh hold on

there we go

okay time to sleep now

[solar vortex]

its the vanilla message for growbeds but itll play early if you load in a growbed made by a survivor

[silk pond]

whats thw new rehinforcement pillar ment for?

[barren oar]

the what

oh yeah found it in the source, seems to just give reinforcement as the name suggests... but only for the first two placed in the base?

comment mentions its not finished though so who knows what the plan is

[silk pond]

ok

i saw it today after updating the mod

[trail ether]

oh did that get left in

it is a feature that got put on ice

as base hull recalc is done only on geometry change

as such you would need to change the physical base structure in order for the pillars to be queried

and as that is not really acceptable the feature got shelved

[trail ether]

...I could have sworn I commented it back out...

[barren oar]

could you not just make it rebuild then add the extra hull in the Base.onPostGeometryChanged event

or add the hull without rebuilding and re-add it when onPost runs

[trail ether]

i am very leery of forcing an "unauthorized" geometry rebuild

with how much of a clusterfuck base code is I do not trust that not to break things

[barren oar]

bases stink whats a bit mroe jank

theres always the second option

biggest thing i can think of is finding where the hull message is displayed in case it isnt just in the hull's set method like it should be

[trail ether]

no hooking into the computation is not the hard part

[barren oar]

oh i guess it wouldn't make sense since it probably adds to it when rebuilding

[trail ether]

I already replaced all the logic with my own implementation

(which is behaviorally identical if no modded features are applicable)

the issue is triggering the code that - ultimately - triggers that recalculation

ie the base rebuild

and it is a full rebuild

have you ever noticed that when you add any snapping piece - the only things that can affect hull strength - the moonpool drops and regrabs the seamoth

that is because the old moonpool GO is destroyed, freeing the seamoth, and a new one is spawned and its grab collider does its thing

[barren oar]

yeah good code i dont see why only the affected and neighbouring basecells would be the one that needs rebuilding and instead the whole base should be rebuilt

[trail ether]

but my fear is that triggering such a rebuild when the game is not expecting it will break things

for example maybe there are references to the base GOs that will not be updated

[barren oar]

again could always just add to the strength when built, and re-add it when geometry changes

you have no issues about an unexpected rebuild then

and the player will be none the wiser since it's essentially what the game does already

[trail ether]

that will not have the effect of actually increasing the strength then

[barren oar]

is the strength not dictated by BaseHullStrength.totalStrength

[trail ether]

the field will be updated yes but all the things that care about its value will still have saved the old value

the value of that field only matters during the rebuild cycle

changing it later will not make it actually "take effect"

[barren oar]

hm, fair

then postfix OnPostRebuildGeometry and add it then?

i dont see anything using GetTotalStrength() anyway but maybe thats a legacy <-> living large difference

[trail ether]

but how does that help? building free-placeables, like the pillar, does not call OnPostRebuildGeometry, because it does not trigger a base rebuild

[barren oar]

uh. good point. i lost the train of thought there sorry i was focusing on something else

what uses the strength, anyway? i dont see either of the public methods returning it being used anywhere... or at least, dnspyex isn't reporting any

neither GetTotalStrength nor GetStructualIntegrity, i mean

[trail ether]

the primary gameplay thing is the crush damage

[barren oar]

which happens in the class using the private field? unless thats a legacy difference

[trail ether]

I remember it making caches based on the value of the field as it is during recalculation, and the caches are what are actually checked in ongoing tick code

[barren oar]

huh so just legacy being shit got it

[trail ether]

maybe i am misremembering

[trail ether]

unrelated

I was going through my post history looking for something else

but I came across this

And it gets even worse when people's idea of documentation starts to include not just "how to use <device>" but the entire mod's progression system, where rather than letting things unlock naturally as you do or learn things, as is the intended mechanism, people would rather be given a checklist of arbitrary "chores" (and yes, they are chores when given in such a contextless and explicit format) that they can work through. Because apparently those people only go into caves, look for a specific biome, go to the nether, or craft something when explicitly told that it is a required step. Then those same people complain that they spent hours running around doing "pointless things" "just to unlock things". As I said, it becomes a chore when you turn it into a dry checklist that you do explicitly for its own sake. Kind of like how hunting for hours to find a specific ore or structure is painful but if you stop looking and then make use of it later once you do find it in the process of doing something else, suddenly it all works smoothly.

it, like several of the things I posted the other day, was written about ChromatiCraft but it applies just as well to C2C, just with a slightly different flavor

[errant cairn]

I have never seen C2C or any SN build take so long to load into the main menu (like 3 or 5 minutes)

Idk if its relevant but I'm on hotspot cause my internet is worse

[barren oar]

might be the version checking c2c does

[errant cairn]

i also have version checker so yeah

[barren oar]

it should phone home to check if theres an update without it too

[errant cairn]

i think so yeah

who ever said i need to get a shit ton of acid shrooms was right i still need more

[pine ginkgo]

Battery charger saves the safe shallows from becoming barren

[worldly valve]

im tempted to reset my playthrough tho dont wanna

i sorta did already

[pine ginkgo]

what for?

[worldly valve]

im not sure if the thing i want to do is bugged

i used colsole commands to get an item at one point

so im unsure if thats why i cant do what i want

or if its just still a bit wonky

or if im missing something

reika mighta changed how it works just a little bit during the change right

||tongue lillies||

[pine ginkgo]

are you talking about gathering them or the ||collecting minerals||

[trail ether]

yes that is relevant

[trail ether]

DI has its own version checker

however there is a config to move the check to its own thread

then your internet speed will not matter as much...except

the version checks have to complete before the game finishes loading

so while they can run in parallel with loading, if your internet is slow enough that they take longer than loading does, you will still have to wait

though a couple seconds less

[worldly valve]

hey reika

i know i always bother you wish "issues n stuff"

but do you have any thoughts on why sometimes sunbeam items tajke awhile to spawn?

my friend, Lairian, is streaming this mod atm and they are able to scan for the sunbeam items, but they often arent loaded in for a good while

im not sure theyve even got them to spawn in

i could link you their playthrough, ill find the vid with it if you want

[worldly valve]

||collecting||

hmmm

i think power rooms work a bit easier now

bioreactor seems to make them now

[worldly valve]

||grinding salt blocks for it feels a bit better, dunno if its just luck||

[worldly valve]

well...i have what i need now...not through the correct method but whatever

||using rock crusher felt way better, maybe 1/3 ratio?||

[flint aspen]

Is there a fix for Brine Corals not being crushable? Edit: Nvm i tried crushing the poor Brine_Lily. Still cant be crushed though :/

[barren oar]

remove the nest gen fix

somehow or other it makes them not drop anything

makes them actually uninteractable too

[flint aspen]

ohhh that could be it... i could scan them but nothing else. thanks ill try that 🙏

[barren oar]

yeah its fucked

thankfully you only need to run the genfix once and it stays fixed, as far as im aware

[flint aspen]

im saving the fix in a separate folder but that would be neat 😄

i just hope the game doesnt take 2 hours to load the save again...

[barren oar]

lol get used to it

[flint aspen]

i guess there is no fix for that... 😅

Loaded on first try and immediately crushed the coral in front of the crusher!! Thanks again :))

[errant cairn]

||Found em in a Mushroom Forest does that help?||

Also when I ||Harvested/Broke|| them it spawned multiple (seemed to be non pickupable, just objects with physics on them, cursed save) so yeah world was omega bugged

[pine ginkgo]

is the intended way of getting ||liquid breathing|| to ||park your seamoth right outside the glass forest wreck and make short trips?||

[trail ether]

strange

[trail ether]

that is 2/3 of it

[pine ginkgo]

ah well I must have missed the last 2/3

1/3*

[worldly valve]

There is another trick or two that can help

[pine ginkgo]

well Ive gotten it so im kinda curious what they are haha

[worldly valve]

Your method might have already included it a little

||also wtehr ot not you have rebreather or reciruclation mask is a huge difference ||

But its essentially ||controlleing your depth||

||Tho a second way to helo is dual ultra high capacity tanks||

[pine ginkgo]

Ah ||I was doing the last two, I thought the recirc was only for liquid breathing.||

[worldly valve]

I just need acid now then progression is back to me. || Grinding for tungsten grains frlt a lot better. There was a higher number of multi items grinded. ||

I too made that error

[tidal monolith]

Can anyone point me to where the noise/stealth stuff can be found in the repo? I'm trying to get ideas for my own system which currently uses colliders, but that introduces a bug where they trip vanilla colliders like the one for the moonpool

[barren oar]

seems to be Ecocean/Components/PlantHidingCollider and PlantHidingTracker, the latter of which is on the player or vehicle

it's still colliders, just that PHC uses onTriggerEnter/Exit to find if the player is inside it or not

[tidal monolith]

so it's visual stealth, nothing with sound?

well anyway, I forgot that OverlapSphere exists, so now I'm going with that

could pick up some cool things off that though so thanks

[barren oar]

audio/silencer module only plays a part for ghost levi spawning, I think

[unreal flame]

that's far from the only stealth feature

[barren oar]

hm, i dont remember there being anything else stealth-like from c2c though maybe i just didnt progress far enough? (ended pre-alz)

i guess stuff like the cyclops' silent running making you less of a target, but that's in vanilla

[unreal flame]

there's the ||changes to sonar and other sounds to make them draw aggro|| and the ||hiding in kelp||

[barren oar]

oh right true

latter yep i assume is handled by ||planthiding[collider/tracker]|| through some or other magic

[tidal monolith]

what other sounds?

always bothered me that breaking outcrops creates such a sharp noise and it never alerts anyone

what necessitates hiding in foliage anyway, were there tweaks to creature aggro behavior?

like aggro now breaks their leash or something

[brazen dawn]

@trail ether I've had the same issue where the items don't spawn from the sunbeam, I have to spawn them in, likewise with the tonguelily tendrils.

[fiery fiber]

Holy moly this is awesome. I don't half of those mods and I thought cyclops upgrade would be blocked! Thank you! This helps alot!

[errant cairn]

||the water in my inventory shows as if its there and takes up space, but i consumed both of them while opening the spawned water proof lockers under the mountain island|| what?? is this supposed to happen?

||are you supposed to be able to save in the seamoth??||

[barren oar]

yep that happens if you consume items you get from c2c-added world storage for some reason

save and reload to make them go away; next time, drop and pickup the items before consuming and that should fix them

[errant cairn]

oh okay tysm

i just closed the game so yeah hopefully they go away

[errant cairn]

||if so its another cheese im not using||

[barren oar]

why couldnt you

[errant cairn]

||i thought it was bases only||

[barren oar]

well depends on the game mode it seems

but it is explicitly blocked if you shouldnt be allowed to

[errant cairn]

huh interesting

[errant cairn]

||should i try to unlock the qep?||

[errant cairn]

||i forgot how to unlock chlorine can someone remind me? 😭||

[pine ginkgo]

Recipe isnt bad

As a hint, the materials you need can all be found in the shallows

[pine ginkgo]

||Have you gotten a tablet yet?||

[errant cairn]

||im at the island with the fragments to get one||

[pine ginkgo]

||Itll be a while before you get a tablet, its impossible to ”open the wrong thing” with the first one though.||

[errant cairn]

||is it not the front door? you know, where you find the pda and the first fragment?||

[pine ginkgo]

||Nope. You need to find 17 fragments, unless you’re on an older version.||

[errant cairn]

Ik. ||was that an answer to my question or was that just telling me to find those first?||

[pine ginkgo]

||You should unlock the recipe while you’re there. You probably won’t be able to make one for a bit but its a necessary point in progression.||

[errant cairn]

||i just left to get mercury ill go back after getting the lazer cutter||

[pine ginkgo]

||(not specifically the QEP, but what else you can do with the tablet)||

[errant cairn]

||a lot||

[errant cairn]

||couldn't find mercury in the mushroom forest where it used to be. ill make a bigger effort in the bulb zone but where is it really?||

[pine ginkgo]

||I think its exclusively in the bulb zone||

[errant cairn]

||looking around there. Been unsuccessful cause lack of depth module in my moth and lack of O2||

[pine ginkgo]

I usually would park my moth near the back of the wreck and go from there

[unreal flame]

I don’t think it’s ever been ||in the mushroom forest?||

[trail ether]

it has not

[barren oar]

||is the geyser particulate filter cave not in the biome||

[trail ether]

partly

but that part does not have any

[errant cairn]

I had it in my cursed save so yeah makes sense

[barren oar]

fair

[worldly valve]

Mighta been in a conencting cave

[forest valve]

||it was before the big update, the forest near the bulb zone, the same place where there was a geyser under the big tree and you had to scan 20 something of that weird plankton or bacteria stuff||

[trail ether]

refer to what I said above

[flint aspen]

There is something seriously wrong when i enter the inactive lavazone. The game deteriorates to a slide show after swimming about 50m into the biom entrance and i managed to find this which looks like its not right... Is this a known issue?

[trail ether]

the update a few days ago fixed this

but it will not undo the effects of the issue from before the update

also spoiler that

[flint aspen]

well damn...

[trail ether]

Clear them out and it will not reoccur

[flint aspen]

i guess i got a cleanup day before me xD

[worldly valve]

One day ill figure out machine room

2 fabricators, 1 modification statuon, 1 water filter and bio not ebough

Unless one of those arent considered a machine?

All that stuff is crafting machine stuff tho

Do i just need more?

I feek like most people accidebtally did the machine room lol

I feel like one of the things i out in is not cinsidered a machibe

Water filter maybe

But then what room gives those mythical extra spots

[pine ginkgo]

Whats the point of the room ratings? I haven’t looked into it at all

[worldly valve]

Storage is kinda meh, i use roughyl 10k wall lockers anywats and i dont notice the extra space

Plabt room is pretty sweet

Machine room sounds fabtastic becsuse it increases efficiency

In hoping it will be bioprocessing a bit better

Eith output and power use

[errant cairn]

Something in machines? I know deployables is called "Machines" in Nautilus (I don't think thats it). Could be large machines such as yeah the water filtration or anything of the sort/size

[worldly valve]

Well peopoe early talked about fabrication speed

Which also excited me a bit

But also probably wont matter much unless maas doing ingots

Duak fabircators is how i ibsread speed usually

Im not super worried about it...i was just surprised and didnt want to add rooms to my base to trouble shoot

[warm remnant]

Fabricators are for working and production room

Modification station too I think

Bioprocessor not sure but it was sitting in my working and production room

And I think battery and cell chargers belongs to machine room

[flint aspen]

Ok after 3 hours of trying to fix the accumulated ||brinecoral|| lag of 9 days of playtime by farming them with 1 fp10s i found the instant fix by deleting the CellsCache. I dont know if this is common knowledge but it may help people who are on a current playthrough.

Although as i am writing this it seems like they disappeared completely...

[barren oar]

never delete cellscache because that removes vital c2c objects and they will not be spawned back

though in this case i dont think there's anything very relevant from the objects you removed in particular

unless they get a new use later on that I'm not aware of, if you scanned them prior then you should be good regardless

[worldly valve]

Oh they are seperate things i see

[trail ether]

brine coral is absolutely essential

without it you cannot progress

[barren oar]

oh i thought that was about glass coral

because lag was part of the conversation

and because the ilz's entrance was part of it

actually why isnt there a system to reinstate missing objects? retroactive worldgen-like

[trail ether]

because they are part of the vanilla map data

and for that matter the ore spawner slot entities are too

and they delete themselves on spawning an ore

[barren oar]

well yeah thats fair actually it'd be more in the territory of smlhelper/nautilus than individual mods since i assume you're using coordinatedspawn or whatever the one for ores is

well not that they could do much since they cant know what happens with the object either

yeah nvm there isnt a nice way to do retroactive worldgen in this instance

[trail ether]

coordinated spawns is the most feasible to have retrogen

as there is already a list of entities and positions

[barren oar]

i was thinking simple 1m "does this exist" check and respawning if not but that doesnt take into account movables

[trail ether]

with everything else you do not even have that

[barren oar]

...which, because everything becomes movable once you fire the stasis at it, not a great solution lol

well except terrain or stuff with no colliders i think

[trail ether]

DI added a ton of exclusions to that

normally almost any object can be moved with the prop or stasis guns

I moved the DRF in testing

[barren oar]

lol sounds like sn

i know i got glass corals and the ||blood kelp base's bioprocessor|| to move about a bit of time ago, didnt test on latest patch though

[trail ether]

fun fact about the latter

[barren oar]

fun fact is that it caused an immediate drop into 1fps because it was constantly colliding with 30 stuff at the same time :)

[trail ether]

for reasons i am not sure of my custom machines are not properly reparented to the SubRoot on save load

so I add some code to reparent them myself

which works great

fundamentally it just finds the closest subroot and parents to it

[barren oar]

huh... wonder why

[trail ether]

however, back in fall 2023 this system had an oversight, along with another in the ||base bioprocessor, where I forgot to remove the actual logic Component||

first someone else experienced it, then I did in my own playthrough

imagine driving a cyclops through the lost river, through the lost river corridor...and then all of a sudden it starts tilting and veering wildly, acting like it is getting stuck on terrain

[barren oar]

was that what was causing unending loading if you happened to save in the area lol

well, seems my issue #❓┃help-and-support message was about the filtration machine actually

[trail ether]

because the oversight is that it was not prevented from parenting to the nearest SubRoot - of which the ||abandoned bases|| are not - if it was a cyclops

so as you moved into range, it parented to the cyclops, and thus became physics-linked to it

[barren oar]

does it not have a maximum distance btw

[trail ether]

so you were driving when suddenly you effectively have part of the sub stuck in an alcove

[trail ether]

it does, and that range is why it happened as you moved into the LR corridor

[barren oar]

oh fair i thought it was when it loaded

[errant cairn]

hmmm to play c2c or work on my 5 modding projects....

[weary bison]

Hey everyone does anyone know how to fix the missing blueprint for Seamoth depth module MK1 in the mod Sea to Sea? I tried:

• Console Commands (says that module is cheated)
• Exploring wrecks for any databoxes
• The aurora module explodes when i try picking it up

Thank's for any help

[pine ginkgo]

the blueprint isn't missing, you have to find pieces of it similar to finding fragments for other technology

it's not just sitting in the Aurora

start exploring areas you would usually explore in the base game and read PDAs, some of them drop hints

highly recommend using scanner rooms as well (honestly I doubt I would have been able to find them without)

[weary bison]

Ohhhh then where is the best place for my base?

[barren oar]

it would be best if you have a main base somewhere you want (although do be wary there are mechanics that pretty much block you from making your base in some locations, until later) and build outposts with scanner rooms in every biome you need to explore

since you're going to be using scanners a lot, when you dont have knowledge from prior runs

[weary bison]

Ok i will do that

I will try looking for the best biomes

[weary bison]

Do you know like a specific location with the module?

[worldly valve]

Not really supposed to say that

Tbh its not super needed

Use 2 air tanks to increase depth range if needed

But my advice is keep exploring for now

You have to go really "wide" atm anyways and collect a lot of things

Eventually pathways open uo

Dobt worry about the next step as it were

And always check what biones are conpleted

[weary bison]

Ok

[pine ginkgo]

Yea I didn’t really need to get it for a while, you can pretty much traverse anywhere between 400-500ish meters without needing a vehicle

[trail ether]

are you sure C2C is the mod for you if you are going to just ask where the unlocks are

[weary bison]

Ye no idk but the mod interested me

[forest valve]

we cant tell you, you gotta work for it

[weary bison]

Ok

[worldly valve]

Oh btw reika

On the twitch playthrough of Lairian

His wife specifically is trained heavily on chemistry

Unaure if its a masters or a phd, besides thebpoiny

She specifically liked your change for rare elements

Noted her chemistry brain

[trail ether]

I do not use twitch but that sounds good

are they going to upload to YT

[unreal flame]

i'm curious about these streams too

[worldly valve]

I believe so but give me a bit

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3O1ZoyDaOXnk3nkzdFYh4vzxkIrUvBu_&si=CpHBLZ9F5v-7BTCb

[worldly valve]

Alao stream is live on twitch atm

[worldly valve]

is there a command to ||force spawn sunbeam debris?||

[errant cairn]

||something to trigger the sunbeam event in the first place i think||

[normal rune]

life is.... life. anything major ive missed the last couple months?

last i remember, the new plankton at base was killing people and that was trying to be solved

[fiery fiber]

I think it's fixed but haven't had a chance to play yet

[trail ether]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/644778196079738890/1313163010864582797/bsdcjlkzvf4e1.png?ex=6867f15b&is=68669fdb&hm=d4b1f9e5bd53f7152713ec5300e3f88c825295f752365091b056661a725477b1&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[errant cairn]

Real

[flint aspen]

||Could it be that to get any of my vehicles into the lost river i have to go into the lavazone 😖? ||

[worldly valve]

No actually

[flint aspen]

I mean of course i could somehow cheese it with docking bays every 100 meters but i mean the effective/probably intended way. I thought so because of ||Iridium|| being required for the ||Sealant Module|| and ||Kyanite|| for the Cyclops thermal reactor not to mention all the things required for the prawnsuit...

[barren oar]

why do you think its a cheese

i only needed 7 for everything major as far as i know

[worldly valve]

The moth has.limited range in riber

The sealant increases the range

[barren oar]

you can def make it further than 100m if you dont skill issue

[worldly valve]

|| my issue with the river is there is one "room" that has like 80% of what you need||

[barren oar]

is that not a good thing

[worldly valve]

I dislike it

|| most of thr time its a waste to explore the rooms in the lost river.||

[barren oar]

||fair but lr stinky anyway so its all good||

[worldly valve]

I also dislike how below xero has the two important holes, like 5 feet apart

[barren oar]

good thing this isn't bz yeag

[flint aspen]

I mean of course i could do that but it would simply transport my moth into the next biome where i still cant use it to explore... just seems a bit cheesy to me if i build 7 bases just for that 😅

but its no big deal its still doable

[barren oar]

do keep in mind the moth is not the only vehicle im the game

everything else will also be affected by the local environment

[worldly valve]

The river is a big barrier

|| tho i really dislike that it punished people for using multiple liquidtanks||

[flint aspen]

yeah but it seems to me that i need the thermal reactor to get the cyclops through there and ||to get a prawn i definitely need to go into the lavazone||

[barren oar]

really you either go mothless, make the insulation and kick the outpost can later down the road (though you can eventually get rid of it completely, thankfully), or use the moth and make the outposts ahead of time

[barren oar]

how so? does it deduct liquid from inactive tanks?

[worldly valve]

Yeah

Rapidly

[barren oar]

oh lol

might just be an oversight because tank data isnt per tank but rather a singleton

[flint aspen]

||Isnt it the only way to get alleviation?|| I found no other way to make it to that room...

[worldly valve]

Nah...its intent pretty sure

Reaika at least knows about it

[barren oar]

fair

[barren oar]

||just pop a temporary relief capsule simce you can get it in one dive session||

[worldly valve]

Did you ever solve efficiency?

[flint aspen]

I mean the temporary relief recipe. To get there and back again you need two tanks...

[barren oar]

there really isnt any special unlock for the single dive session relief, as far as i can remember

i got the upgrade blueprint with just one of those

[flint aspen]

wait there is a single session relief???? ive got 7 and a half days of playtime in my current run and never found it...

wtf

[barren oar]

is it not required in the upgrade's recipe

[worldly valve]

Yes

[flint aspen]

i know because i have the 2h alleviation unlocked but i never heard of a "single session relief"...

[worldly valve]

Never got enzyme peepers did you

[flint aspen]

i did

||wait so eating those gives a single session relief? ||

[worldly valve]

No

But they gave a buoreactor recipe

I do believe

[flint aspen]

i know its required for the long alleviation but i didnt know of any effects before that

[worldly valve]

I think it mentions it on them jn description

[flint aspen]

well its not really relevant for me anymore but its nice to know there would have been an easier way to get the long alleviation. 😅 it already seemed ridiculous to craft a second dive tank just to|| get the alleviation recipe in a cache you would never try to get to if you didnt knew it was there...||

[barren oar]

well its good knowledge for future runs in case you plan to do that? lol

ive relied on them a fair bit bunch too much myself, ||exploring the disease research facility in its entirety|| because thats the most likely place where the upgrade would be in all honesty

and surely it wouldn't be an item that sees one use and gets thrown away after a 10min trip (it's an item that sees one use and gets thrown away after a 10min trip)

though it is used in the recipe so it does have a second use by technicality

[flint aspen]

i didnt even try that because it was absolutely impossible without the alleviation so im glad it wasnt there 😅

[barren oar]

lol

[worldly valve]

It wears off

[worldly valve]

Its not...impoasible but

[barren oar]

you still only use its ability one time

[worldly valve]

it used to not do the thing. tho i think the oxygen reduction was a bit lett bad

[barren oar]

oh fr?

[worldly valve]

that is my memory

[barren oar]

how were you supposed to reach the better treatment then

multiple tanks 💀

[worldly valve]

not always the best but i had a complete playthrough before big updates

i used multiple tanks...

i didnt figure out what was wrong...for a bit

i lost so much fluid

this playthrough i actually still did thesame thing to get to perma cure lol

|| i used 2 tanks and made 2 air bubbles ||

||mighta been 3 bubbles, but i used the temp cure each one. it gives the extra air for the duration. only the liquid from the bigger tank drains, so the 150 in eachank is safe from river. but it was costly ||

[barren oar]

||what bubbles you talking bout? outposts to regen auxiliary tank -> main tank liquid at?||

[worldly valve]

yes

[barren oar]

ah ic

[worldly valve]

1 room 1bio

[barren oar]

||thats what i did too except i built several moonpools instead of the 2/3 outposts you did||

||but i feel the seamoth's utility is worth enough to bother with so many, really||

[worldly valve]

your's it kinda a btter method

[barren oar]

||plus you can use it for the prawn after, considering you still have to progress a bit to be able to get rid of the brine cell drain completely||

[worldly valve]

mine leads to underdevelopedmain river base

[barren oar]

its still a sandbox at the end of the day anyway

you can go about how you progress as you wish

well. in the idea of a sandbox

[untold kiln]

https://youtu.be/mzJ8NpueWoQ?si=2F0LJ4UIL6MVHU24 IDK whether to be proud or annoyed that C2C is the reason why I've been to almost all of these locations lol

[unreal flame]

I mean, that’s like a good chunk of the point of C2C

[errant cairn]

@trail ether https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/1121?tab=files Lets you clip things from the habitat builder into other things

Full override letting you do whatever you want

Shouldn't this be banned from C2C?

Cause it lets me use the Sea Voyager as a full portable base

I'm not going to install that as I think it defeats the purpose, but my question still stands

[barren oar]

its also the only thing that allows you to deconstruct an ACU under specific conditions which i dont know about, so maybe dont ban it

see here

unless its been patched recently bc i havent tested

[errant cairn]

ill try in a creative world

[barren oar]

should try various actions like putting creatures in, planting plants, dropping items, building the ACU attachment so on and so forth

one/multiple of them definitely leads to the issue

[errant cairn]

im trying to load my game now but on steam link it kinda sux

i just built the ACU and it didnt deconstruct so I kinda need building tweaks I think

until its fixed

[barren oar]

lol

[errant cairn]

Well F---

time to turn my Sea Voyager into a portable base 😭

later™️

[barren oar]

you could always just not do that if you feel it's cheating

[errant cairn]

the main reason i see the sea voyager as an "edge case" is because i still need a base and power to get most of the plants growing

[barren oar]

ah?

[worldly valve]

not o mention it kills passive exploring

[errant cairn]

and building tweaks makes it so i can go anywhere to get anything i want and keep it at my sea voyager until i need it for something

on top of being able to build non-outdoor/module buildables inside it

like Fabricator and those I can but ACU I can't

well i guess i still cant build ACU i cant but it lets me infinitely expand power in my Sea Voyager until I can't make anymore solar pannels

And, well, I guess, limited space on it for grow beds but not the point

[worldly valve]

your sea voyager is hurting your playthrough more than you think it is sir

[errant cairn]

really? tell me. How?

[worldly valve]

it;s why its not banned

passive exploration is killed pretty hard

[errant cairn]

i already have a laser cutter

[worldly valve]

several base mechanica you cant touch

[errant cairn]

i had a seamoth before Ghosty ate it

[worldly valve]

how mnay biomes have you completed>.>

[errant cairn]

none cause I haven't explored. Actually like 3 but that was the same as my last playthrough

before that save got corrupted

[worldly valve]

als ithas fairly limited sorage

[errant cairn]

but yeah i plan to plop down somewhere and ditch the voyager

[errant cairn]

HMMMMMMMMMMM (you're forgetting about the lower deck that can hold another 300 lockers)

Also I can build a LOT more lockers on the outside with building tweaks

[errant cairn]

(Probably)

[errant cairn]

Mainly early game boost and portable vehicle dock. With the portable O2 Generator (moth) I could do a little bit with it

Does not count as Moonpool

[trail ether]

it is also necessary for working around a lot of issues in the vanilla building system

stuff like building a tunnel and then being unable to deconstruct it because it is too close to something else

[barren oar]

tunnel?

oh base corridor i assume

[trail ether]

yes

[barren oar]

cant say ive encountered that myself but it sounds like subnautica for sure lol

[trail ether]

I run into it all the time

have a room with stuff on the walls

build a corridor attaching to it

suddenly be able to deconstruct because there are things too close to the tunnel

[errant cairn]

Ah okay thats why its not banned

[trail ether]

i might just blacklist building on the sea voyager

i have hooks for controlling buildability already

i can just entirely prevent it when the mount target is a sea voyager or part thereof

and i advise you to dismantle whatever you have on it because I will destroy all existing buildables

[errant cairn]

Wait...Building entirely???

I mean it's valid honestly

[trail ether]

yes

building entirely

[errant cairn]

OOOkay time to take everything in my lockers and shove em in my moonpool, glad I built a small main base before saving

[unreal flame]

i don't really care too much about the sea voyager, but it is cyclops sized and preventing building on it would make it completely useless

it's also surface-only

[trail ether]

what is its intended use cae

[unreal flame]

fuck if i know i've never used it

mobile, but surface-only base?

[errant cairn]

idk ask lee

"A shallow-water alternative to the Cyclops submarine that provides extensive mobility and a large building space." From the piloting manual

I would think to either decrease building space (i would know how for 2.0, not for legacy) or make it more expensive/harder to get

There are soooo many things you can decrease about it (make it worse than it was/rebalance it) in a simple patch to make it more balanced for C2C

[errant cairn]

reika, why do I have infinite computer chips

i just spent my last computer chip and it regenerated into my locker

its gone...HEH?!

[pine ginkgo]

I still feel like any sort of portability with bases is massively undermining the emphasis on seabases in C2C

You can play it however you want though

[errant cairn]

I think removing building will make me plan what to do....I think its a positive

and I'll need to do things to get things

[errant cairn]

okay Reika i removed everything from my sea voyager release the hotpatch

[unreal flame]

Fair, though I’d argue it would be fine to gate the construction of a sea voyager somewhere after the cyclops can be built

[errant cairn]

I'd argue a little earlier since you will no longer be able to build on it, but who am I to say anything

[errant cairn]

actually idk. I'm not sure if Reika is actually going to make it so you cant build in the sea voyager but if so what do you think then

Is a solar array of 900 max power enough for a main base?

[unreal flame]

The amount of solar required to be “enough” for a main base is much higher than 12 panels and is generally meant to be unviable

[trail ether]

not evne close

[errant cairn]

Well I consider myself in early-mid game so I think a solar array of 900 max power will be enough for now

[errant cairn]

Good to know ty

[trail ether]

it is not coming today

[errant cairn]

okay

[trail ether]

I am still recovering - barely - from surgery

[errant cairn]

Oh my bad

Have a good time recovering, and in the mean time i will not build in my Sea Voyager

[trail ether]

the amount of pain ensures it will not be a good time

[errant cairn]

Make it a good time

do something else

[trail ether]

i am

[errant cairn]

ok

[trail ether]

but it is hard to focus

[errant cairn]

ok

[errant cairn]

Oh boy! Time to look at the Cyclops recipe!

Okay that isnt that bad

I already have a little bit of the requirements

[pine ginkgo]

The one that you don’t have is insanely difficult to get. The ||plating||

Actually I just thought. Would the sea voyager make it easy to get ||to lifepod 15?||

[errant cairn]

No. ||I tried and failed. Mainly cause I got bluetooth hit by the ghost levis||

||I took my Sea Voyager to lifepod 19 and found the island ||

[errant cairn]

Kinda mad that its ||unlocked at lifepod 15|| cause i'd have to ||bring my moth docked at my sea voyager with a bunch of med kits and hope I don't get bluetooth hit twice in a row||

And also ||the sea voyager isn't invincible it just has really high health so it takes until SN2 is released to repair from 1 health||

[pine ginkgo]

Theres something you’re missing then

There are things to help you get there

[errant cairn]

Like what? ||Creature decoys||? I thought they go after the player not the vehicle

And also I think I need some kind of repair tool upgrade and I already have all of the vanilla tools except the stasis rifle

[pine ginkgo]

No, ||a module for the seamoth||

[errant cairn]

Ohhhhh its not the ||perimeter defense system|| is it?

[pine ginkgo]

No

Might want to explore every wreck you can reach

[errant cairn]

Does the grav trap do shit to data boxes?

What about the prop cannon

[pine ginkgo]

No that I know of

Or at least its not important in this case

I’m genuinely not even sure where you unlock this because at some point I just explored every wreck mindlessly

[errant cairn]

Define "every wreck you can reach." Cause I can reach all of them. Except the ones really deep

[pine ginkgo]

Well it should be above 400m

Cause I had it before ||liquid breathing||

[errant cairn]

No idea what that is yet so thanks for the hint on pogression. I'm guessing its in one of the grassy plateaus wreaks or sparse reef but idk

[pine ginkgo]

If you go below 400m you should get a PDA in Advanced Theories about ||liquid breathing||

[errant cairn]

I'll find out tmr morning cause I just unlocked the multipurpose room and want to sleep

[pine ginkgo]

Have you been to ||lifepod 14?||

Its not explicitly marked

[errant cairn]

Which biome is it in? I explored the ||mushroom forest one|| and I think that one's lifepod 12

Cause I'll know then

Or some kind of land marker hint that I may or may not know depending on pogression

[pine ginkgo]

||Its not even radio’d. There’s a hint about it in the very south dunes.||

If you’ve found it you would have a log for it

Under exploration findings