game-update

[carmine junco]

I just like the way they did most of the rest of it

[hasty shard]

can they unironically just start taking design notes from rs3 pvm at this point

what id fucking give for rs3 instance setup

[sacred oracle]

like how people always tell me to stop caring about death fees

i figured the orbs are just a tax like death fees and the same people who don't mind one shouldn't mind the other

that's not how it turned out tho

[chrome lantern]

Directly from Mod Husky when talking about Sailing drop rates, specifically dragon sheets. This is why they went with Contracts anyway.

57:56
So yes, if you're an account that's grinding out all your dragon sheets for yourself, it's probably going to take quite a while because that should be quite a large investment

58:34
So yeah, I don't have any sympathies here. And to be honest, I'm that Ironman who just kinda says the game mode's difficult, but I'm the gigachad who'll sit there and grind it for hours and weeks sometimes. You know, I didn't care that I had to grind 12,000 demons for my Radiant Oathplate, I just sat there and grinded the contracts cuz that's what an Ironman account does.

Because some people think that sentiment is the objective

[minor whale]

It didn't help that on contract release, one of them was broken and unbeatable

[meager flame]

the thing about the orbs and contracts is that nobody really wants an arbitrary blocker preventing them from trying the hardest content in the game

[chrome lantern]

Design content that is intentionally bad

But then you're cool because you killed 12k demons for contracts

As if

[meager flame]

they've already gotta build up the willingness to die and learn and try for an unspecified amount of time

they really don't need an additional fee

[hasty shard]

making you redo something you've proven you can already do just to get to the hard part is just tedium

[meager flame]

its honestly kind of anti gamer design

which is insane for a video game to have lmao

[hasty shard]

modern games ditched lives for a reason (granted i dont like that most did blindly)

[sacred oracle]

oh, you're thinking of it like an iron

i'm thinking of the orbs as a purely financial barrier

[carmine junco]

Are they even that expensive?

[sacred oracle]

which is why i equated them to death fees

[chrome lantern]

The fact that someone who designs content and drop rates, will intentionally call themselves a gigachad for menial labor shows a fundamental flaw with design approach to content

[true talon]

lol ya lemme just add this barrier key to playing the most difficult content, that is only obtainable if you farm thousnads of hours of lesser mobs......

[hasty shard]

oh the financial barrier is just (insert implied rulebreaking not rwt the other thing to do content without doing it)

sol sim for example because thats just a website

[chrome lantern]

From a financial barrier, no, they're fairly cheap now, but honestly that just makes it even worse

[hasty shard]

it gets to a point where people just get pissed and develop offsite stuff to do the practice without pissing gp down the drain

[sacred oracle]

that's why I don't like them but figure most players better than me wouldn't care

[meager flame]

i mean even thats the same in concept just the gp value isn't as big of a burden

[chrome lantern]

Similar to chromium ingots, it was an item that was pretty much guaranteed to never have any long-term value and only exist to screw over ironmen

[sacred oracle]

but even people who tell me to suck it up about death fees don't like orbs

[meager flame]

in both cases they're milking you for time/effort before you're allowed to play

when thats basically always bad game design

they shouldn't be giving you reasons to not play

[sacred oracle]

i don't really care that much about the iron side of it, myself, for the usual reasons: chose challenging game mode, etc

[chrome lantern]

Even if we ignore ironmen and etc.

It's literally an item that exists solely to actively deter people from attempting challenging content

Which is just a bad starting point

[sacred oracle]

well, that's not the reason, though that may be the effect

[meager flame]

sometimes it can be hard to tell where the line is like

[sacred oracle]

the reason is one that irons don't care about very much: gp

it's an item for poorer/less advanced players to get that they can sell to richer/more advanced players

[meager flame]

making someone level up before they can do xyz could be seen as the same thing but thats usually more of the journey where leveling up was meaningful on its own

[sacred oracle]

that's the reason

[chrome lantern]

Even if we look at it from a GP perspective they're a pretty negligible part of gp/hr for those "poor" players

[sacred oracle]

now as to whether it's a good reason is another thing

[meager flame]

where what jagex did is basically getting a bunch of players who are ready who could do the content and might want to

[chrome lantern]

And the difference can easily be made up for with other drops if that's the objective

[meager flame]

and create reasons for them to instead just not play

which is silly

[sacred oracle]

i would prefer a different way to create drops as well

[chrome lantern]

Awakened Vardorvis is my favorite boss in the entire game but they arbitrarily said, "Nah, you can only kill it if you pay an orb"

[sacred oracle]

it's like how we keep making pets easier and easier to get, which as a pet hunter upsets me and makes pets far less special/an achievement

it appears the logic, though, is they want to keep endgame players from overgrinding a boss and reducing the value of drops

[chrome lantern]

A similar thought to that

[meager flame]

i dont really understand what they're doing with pets in general

[chrome lantern]

Why tf did they make Stale baguette and Jar of darkness more common

[sacred oracle]

i get the goal, but i do not like the method of addressing it

same with orb

i get the goal, but there's probably a better/different method

[chrome lantern]

Especially in a game with a statistically incompleteable collection log, why should those two megarare cosmetics be treated any differently than 3a

[minor whale]

People complaining, as always

[sacred oracle]

i don't really care about jar of darkness, but i was very much in favor of making stale baguette less rare

[obsidian venture]

Jagex tryna design aspirational content mission impossible

[sacred oracle]

it wasn't so much the rarity, it was the method

[obsidian venture]

Yep

[sacred oracle]

i feel differently about it now, but also now i have stale baguette, so i don't trust that my principles have actually changed

[obsidian venture]

I still don’t have the baguette

[sacred oracle]

i think i do have a limit to how rare i think an item should be, but it's not something that i feel super strongly about

moon helm is too rare

[meager flame]

the pet thing is just crazy to me because its a cosmetic who's sole attraction is that its rare

[sacred oracle]

it's rare in a particularly bad way: i like items to feel grindable

even if slow, grindable

[meager flame]

so making them easier is just flat out stupid lol

its taking away the only interesting thing about it

[chrome lantern]

Moon helm is in a good spot

[sacred oracle]

problem with moon helm isn't the rarity itself but how incredibly slow the keys are to get

i think it's partly a feeling thing

[chrome lantern]

I like there being items that you don't ever expect to get and I don't think people should ever feel like it should be something they grind for

[sacred oracle]

brimstone chest is a long clog to get, but the keys are not an hour or two to get half of one each

moon helm key halves are insanely rare

[meager flame]

stuff like that

[sacred oracle]

i'd rather the drop rate of the helm be increased but the key halves be decreased

[meager flame]

is what i would use the random drop table for

but thats cursed to never be anything besides random junk

[chrome lantern]

Yeah that's fair the chest loot isn't crazy enough that I'd be opposed to that

1/1k helm but 2.5x more common keys is what you're saying as an example

[sacred oracle]

yeah

i think it's just an item i don't like

i'm not sure it's bad design

[chrome lantern]

I think that's a fair argument

[sacred oracle]

i do a lot of pvm, so i have a lot of the combat key halves—and absolutely none of the skilling ones

[chrome lantern]

But I don't personally think the expected time or concept of the helm as a megarare is a problem

[sacred oracle]

one thing about it that i think is objectively bad though: the key names!

naming it the same as the crystal key was so bad

[chrome lantern]

Yeah

The loop half isn't even a loop either

[sacred oracle]

i left so many on the ground at amoxliatl having no idea they weren't crystal key halves because the name is the same

[chrome lantern]

It should be called a crescent half of key

[meager flame]

like idk why we dont have a moon helm on the rdt

[chrome lantern]

Idk what I'd call the tooth part but I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard

Doesn't have to be key-shaped either, could be a solar key half and lunar key half or something

[meager flame]

its a really obvious place to put impossible to get but items you might get lucky and see one day

[sacred oracle]

just, like, any name that would differentiate it, even just "moon" in front of the name it has now

anything that would have kept me from leaving these incredibly rare items to despawn on the ground lol

i can't be the only one who did that dumb thing

okay i'm going to the store to get juice, have fun fellas

[chrome lantern]

Definitely heard of a lot of people doing that

bye

[meager flame]

tbh i have no idea why they dont change the name

its just mean lol really bad design

[tacit wharf]

oh you'd hate me

one of those bosses i spooned at

[true talon]

They copied poe style bosses.

which requires entry keys to fight, its absolute ass type system, esp in solo self found.

[quartz anchor]

Oh no you have to RNG grind in an RNG grind game

[covert hinge]

Yes, but there is a threshold that can make the RNG grind just boring and unenjoyable

[true talon]

Entry keys are beyond a terrible mechanic

[nocturne solstice]

I think as a concept they're fine but the issue is quantity and drop chance 🤔

Echo orbs are also entry keys but you don't hear complaints about those. Them being permanent unlocks help a lot but if stuff in the maingame like contracts and orbs were a lot more prevalent, I don't think there would be any complaints.

[ashen yarrow]

most of the yama contracts need to be consumable, but i do agree that the radiant contracts could be unlocks instead of consumed every failed attempt

[covert hinge]

if ever they don't want to make the permanent unlock, just a consumed on kill would feel better then consume on failed.

[true talon]

Ya perm unlock keys are fine, consumable per attempt is beyond terrible. could you imagine echo orbs being per attempt/kill??

[hard axle]

They would need to be ultra rare then, as rare as oathplate armor contracts and certainly not from base Chasm of Fire demons.

Shouldn't have it both ways where they are common af, but also impossible to sink.

[true talon]

point is for it to not be a sink and just an unlock

Awkened orbs is bad for the game

[hard axle]

Even without orbs, the content is 1nd and worthless to repeat aside from those trying challenges. Number of people actually doing shit like 27 awakened levis can be counted with fingers on 2 hands or less.

I would actually greatly prefer if Awakened Bosses had a viable reason to be spammed, such as higher base drop rates and higher pet rates, but Jagex has said no to this and hyper casuals that struggle with base DT2 bosses have so much fomo that they will champion against this unless it comes into the game by default or jagex decides to put it in.

I bring up CG as an example - Imagine if CG was not worth doing because the drop rates weren't 2-5x commons and 5x uniques, and you only got the red cape.

Not many people would do it.

But because you incentivized folks enough with 5x multiplier and only 20% longer per kc, people do CG over regs.

[hard axle]

if they did 25x pet rate for Awakeneds like they did for Yama, Orbs would probably be like 10x the price

In the end, you will basically never see orb changes unless they decided to add stats to blorva because "its cosmetic only" and that's all the endgame players get.

the cosmetic only meta unfortunately takes away any motivation for them to fix it

[true talon]

I dont think there is any fomo from those who cant do the normal bosses

[hard axle]

go make a post - each time you bring up buffing awakeneds value to be repeated, folks are like "its aspirational content" or "its fine if its 1nd"

[true talon]

The problem is the entry key gate keeps either by attempts or bank cost. it keeps those out of the content who could do it, but cant afford the attempts and its better to just not do it over deplete your bank learning it. its a barrier placed that should not exist all in the name of funneling wealth from the top end player to the mid game player.

And if your an ironman or a uim then its beyond terrible for you

They took a page from POE in which people who didnt do the pinnacle bosses could farm the entry keys from lower tier or not super difficult content and then provide it to the people with builds who can conquerer and maybe profit off the encounter.

problem is in poe there is a money incentive for players who have builds that can handle the bosses to go actually do them.

all they did with blood torva was gate keep a recolor behind an insane cost barrier.

Even in SSF POE bosses you farm the keys yourself to farm the uniques from the pinnacle bosses as its only place you can get them.

It would have been better to have the awakened bosses not be so insane and have them only drop certain uniques like the SRA pieces or even the vestige itself. Once you got the key (echo orb) then you can unlock the harder version (not to the extreme it is today but slightly harder) which would then unlock the better uniques.

[minor whale]

Orbs existing to make a value transfer from casuals to more hardcore gamers is a fine prospect but orbs are worthless due to it not improving anything for the average player and the fight being worse for time overall

[true talon]

Doom is a good example of how it can be done right, you put the better drops in the deeper waves and get people to learn the content an get better. id say they kind of didnt do it right as boots should have been a minimum 7.

[minor whale]

If orbs did something other than single use aspirational content it'd be fine to exist as they do

But instead they're 400k and annoying to grind and nobody but people who want Blorva actually cares about doing Awakened

[thick beacon]

ive just kinda come to accept jagex wont gatekeep uniques at all. if something is to hard they will allow ppl to get uniques anyway

[true talon]

entry key gatekeeps are bad and should not exist. unlock the harder fight with unlimited attepts or dont do it at all.

[true talon]

Technically they do that, entry mode tob for example has no uniques

if you want anything from tob you have to do normal mode

[thick beacon]

ye tob is like one execption but all content post that has been very babyfied

like they dont even want a perma wipe on new raid like tob

toa they are willing to give stuff in entry mode

doom basically giving stuff on wave 1

when they nerfed toa they didint even nerf lower raid lvls either

[obsidian venture]

Jagex does not care for balance between mid/end drops or gear

If a jmod somehow sees this please tell me what bosses and drops have been good for progression

you want to cater to everyone so you shoot yourself in the foot when trying to design bis reward spaces and accessibilty

Tob is the best example of balance with entry giving no rewards whereas normal and hmt does

yama is ass with how it inserted itself as basically a torva replacement (for now) in most places and didn't even address proper melee progression. Nex could have changed the ttc to complete and yama could have raised ttc

doom is piss with how accessible really good rewards are

[minor whale]

They put 3 extremely good items on it before you even see all the mechanics of the boss, which is absurd

[obsidian venture]

furthers skews mage progression. You could have reduced rates and put them starting at 6+ and that would have been fair. Instead you put the pet at 6?

[thick beacon]

personally i think those items would be a be better if the bosses were atleast harder. u can geninuely get oathplate before bandos cuz of how acessbile boss is. doom has similar things where its so easy to acess for the rewards and double down by having no gatekeeping imo. they could also just nerf oath/eye imo but i dont think they will go that far

[obsidian venture]

You can rush yama and doom and basically skip most mage/melee upgrades for a long time

rebalance is severely needed and jmods need to stop catering to billybobs 24/7

They haven't made good endgame content in forever

yama and delve were a miss. You could argue that doom scales to end and yes that's fair. But it starts off as early-mid with jad lvl prayer switches

[true talon]

i wouldnt say they catering to billybobs. delves coulda been done better for sure.

[thick beacon]

i would like a route like that if it was hard to do like something similar to early quiver/infernal where if ur good u can do it but most ppl will delay upgrades for long time and need better gear. if doom uniques were way deeper or toa experts were needed i think itd change a lot

[obsidian venture]

It's so bad I have almost no faith in bmr or raids 4

[obsidian venture]

but 2-4 is

you can defeat jad and send doom basically

[thick beacon]

even then i think items are to strong though

[obsidian venture]

mechanics wise

[true talon]

i woulda prefered a real enrage boss and not an endurence test one.....

in rs3 enrage bosses you can bank

[obsidian venture]

then 5-8 changes and then stagnation + clearing acid (yes it's skillful to keep pushing)

yes

When I heard of enrage, I looked at rs3. I haven't played rs3 but watching clips of those bosses seemed way more enticing

[true talon]

doom is not a real enrage boss, because grubs limit how long you can stay, room space that you cant control limit it, and inventory management also limits it.

[obsidian venture]

rs3 pvm in the endgame genuinely looks way more promising icl

[true talon]

rs3 pvm needs to be adpoted more into osrs

[thick beacon]

i think closest thing we have to enrage bosses in rs3 is honestly toa

[obsidian venture]

I don't want back ported content but I want engaging bosses

[true talon]

particpation trophies need to end.

if the boss is hard the rewards can be good. not everyone needs to do it, but everyone should be allowed to try it.

[obsidian venture]

osrs can do just that but they need to remove the label of aspirational 1nd content

they could have made the orb/contracts a 1 time sacrifice

like echo

[minor whale]

Jagex definitely been catering to the "I have 4 kids and 3 wives and work 6 jobs, I need this to be achievable on my ironman" for the past couple years for sure

[thick beacon]

even then the way its designed like its not worth to do awakend even if it was free to attempt for gp

[true talon]

I dont aspire to do blood torva or raidant oathplate, because the reward for the time invested is nothing esp as an ironman farming orbs is an absolute bitch, it will take less time to lvl a max main an practice on that.

[obsidian venture]

It's just pathetic at this point. From a business standpoint sure cater to the large audience. From a long time player and progress wise, it's been in the bin for years

[thick beacon]

wish radiant/blorva gave stats and they improved system

[obsidian venture]

That being said I do appreciate the pathways and different routes you can go, but please balance them better

[true talon]

Even right now doing CM's feels like a waste, i got the dust an 3 kits. so im just doing a harder raid that takes longer for no reason. mainly doing it because my gear makes doing lower raids a real pain in the ass as i reset vangaurds with every single hit from my weapons XD

[obsidian venture]

Cosmetics do not have to be the end all be all. You can make bosses like awaken vard to be repeatable and fun without random costs

we pay enough when we die already

[thick beacon]

ye but it has to be worth cuz otherwise its like what tassi is saying ppl wont care to do harder stuff for same reward

[minor whale]

Careful, you'll get an ironman in here saying you hate the game and should just stop playing because you're critiquing it as an endgame player

[obsidian venture]

It's like you attract folks for the midgame and then when they reach endgame you're basically that dude from between the lions

https://tenor.com/view/between-the-lions-cliffhanger-gif-9041060

[thick beacon]

as much as i enjoy hmt i see 0 reason to do it rn

cm is same thing its geninuely just worse

[obsidian venture]

I only send with friends for their kits but otherwise it's legit cancer content

[true talon]

i havnt even done HMT because the barrier of finding people is pretty annoying. its not like expert TOA or CM in which i can go in an die all day by myself learning it.

[thick beacon]

its more about the principle imo harder content should have more reward

[obsidian venture]

I do enjoy cms tbh

as it's more on procedure than "ooo lets see what we can kill you with now"

[thick beacon]

i get they didint really want hmt/cms to be worth doing for points/gp but i think it makes sense for them to be better

[true talon]

HMT on leagues was fun till xarpus killed everyone XD

[obsidian venture]

it scales way better with experience

I've seen clips of hmt in leagues and it genuinely looked ass

[thick beacon]

and i hate cms but i wouldint mind them improving it

[obsidian venture]

I love cms and wouldn't mind teaching you it better

hmt still can brick a good team once in a while

cms is super consistant

[true talon]

CM i personally like, i feel they should be more rewarding or have less scroll chance like hmt.

[obsidian venture]

yes reduce scrolls

should be in the rebalance

give it the avernic treatment in hmt

[thick beacon]

i havint given cms a geninue chance but also its just not my inital cup of tea. i prefer tob/toa approach where u just fight big bosses. feel like cm is more of a battle of how organized u can be and doing very nuianced things outside just actually hitting boss

[obsidian venture]

also fix scouting in regs

delete 6 rooms

[obsidian venture]

I can maybe change that mindset for when you're ready on the iron

[true talon]

they suck if you dont got a tbow

the baby CM is much better

[thick beacon]

ive been pretty busy atm but ultimately im also just waiting to see if summer sweep up has any changes to cox

ye thats what i hear but i feel like if im gona solo id rather do regs. if im gona team cox id rather do cms

but i havint given baby cms a chance either scouting does annoy me a ton

[obsidian venture]

Can send with bowfa tbf and it's fine

like a good bowfa triple iron team can get low 20min

[thick beacon]

part of my biggest gripe is just i kinda wish normal methods of doing chambers were better cms/reg/baby cms

to an extent i feel really obligated to just keep doing mscales

and imo mscales are even more important then delving deep or inccreasing toa raid lvl to an extent

like i can play insanely cracked and its still gona be worse and more effort just more fun being only value

[true talon]

baby cm is nice my gear is just to good that i minds well do the real CM

mostly its just vangaurds, they should fix that fight

[obsidian venture]

hate that megas are a thing im ngl

improvement to base stuff would be cool yeah

[true talon]

Respect the mutadile 🙁

[tacit pendant]

Im like pretty doubtful cox sees a sweep up

[true talon]

I think the scroll reduction in cm;s is possible

they did it on leagues

[true talon]

I think another cool thing they could do is let you hit tekton while hes on his anvil, but all you have to do is dodge his lava strikes.

similar to how they did mutadile while its frozen

[hard axle]

Exactly. That's why I mentioned above why if they actually did shit beyond blorva, it would be 5m an orb easily since each pet hunter would sink on average 100-300 going for pet

But then people would cry about blorva costing 1b in attempts by doing it legitimately (it was already painful at 4m an orb)

[hard axle]

I'm tired of it and I try to get most of the aspiration stuff week 1 of release

Inferno Cape was both aspirational and dps increase on release, which makes it worth it to go for at any stage of progression.

If they do kill the contract/orbs, Blorva and Radiant should have stat increase

[hard axle]

Ye, it's like if you could get olm uniques after completing the first phase, or nm uniques after p1.

The cosmetic pet has higher requirements than the uniques

[obsidian venture]

If they are tougher on login services for these 1nd content and or capes, then I can see a future where endgame content can be actual upgrades over cosmetics

[minor whale]

Seems like they cba at all
They don't do anything against cape buyers, Blorva or Radiant buyers, quiver buyers, gm task buyers, etc

If it's not botting or rwt seems they've checked out

[plucky canyon]

Orbs are particularly egregious you only get about 56 on rate to SRA

and sra is arguably not worth going for, it’s more hours spent than scythe

[obsidian venture]

Yeah it's a failure of a weapon

As a main, it's only use is at vard

[chrome lantern]

If they got rid of the ramp-up it would actually fit between blade/scythe as intended

[true talon]

I agree its not a good wep, they should get rid of the stacking mechanic fully

[chrome lantern]

And have a niche for bis like at vard

[obsidian venture]

imagine grinding this on an iron for it to be useful at the place you're already grinding

remove hp/stacking (can make it static)

there's a thread for this

[chrome lantern]

Yep

[true talon]

its a little better on iron, becuase it fills in as a really good crush wep

[obsidian venture]

but it can be a middle ground

right now it's literally tent whip to a scythe on a main

[chrome lantern]

The biggest advantage of SRA is that the bosses are fun so it's fun to go for it

[plucky canyon]

Scythe is still better for that too though lol

[obsidian venture]

for irons yeah some more use pre scythe

[true talon]

only if you got inquis

[winged mantle]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1471079321807618090

[obsidian venture]

but ttc is generally not worth it if you ge spooned on rings

[chrome lantern]

Use your inquisitor to grind pnm for inquis obviously

[obsidian venture]

maybe if you go for virtus?

[chrome lantern]

I did get fully virtus on the way to SRA/rings

Went dry at duke

[true talon]

I got SRA before all the rings

[obsidian venture]

also rebalance needs to address crush/mage/ general melee gear prog before raids 4

[plucky canyon]

I got anc before dt2 existed but fair point

[obsidian venture]

it is nice for ancients

[chrome lantern]

I only have 1 piece of anc

[obsidian venture]

but minor tbf

[chrome lantern]

I went from enchanted (mystic) top to virtus

[true talon]

Ancestral is a rough grind

Rarer than tbow

[round lintel]

tbh from dt2 bosses I hate the ingot drop

[slate elm]

Nah bronze javelin is worse lol

[restive siren]

nah the troll drops are annoying but at least they arent on the unique drop table

ingots are the fucking worst

[covert hinge]

ingot and what about you need to role the vestige 3 times before getting it?

[hard axle]

full stacking is actually really close to scythe and is just a superior nhally atp

nhally already hits low 70s in max, soulreaper is high 70s

[hard axle]

adding gold rings for vestige rolls instead of just an ingot

[restive siren]

shhh dont make too much sense

[hard axle]

and if u died on the 3rd roll, you'll permanent disgrace in your bank 💀

(aka 2 ingots)

[restive siren]

should just be like gold rings, 1 first then 2 second then you have 3 every time a vestige drops

[hard axle]

keep the net kc expected for vestige the same by adjusting the drop rate for uniques, but the gold ring thing was eh

[true talon]

Wait you have to go to the ancient cavern were mith dragons are to make freaking large keel parts?

[tacit wharf]

where else would you get a fire hot enough to smith dragon

[true talon]

i guess, makes sense from lore not very convient for the player lol.

[woven orbit]

are clues still getting steps that require locked regions to finish?

<@&385422009930219520>

[patent ibex]

Your best bet is to check the current overview of fixes and issues that are being investigated on the website: Leagues VI: Fixes & Issues.

[bronze kernel]

Only one I know of that's still around is the Air Obelisk one which is impossible unless you picked the clue relic and have a TP scroll

They fixed and removed the one where you need to open a chest in Varrock

[true talon]

Dang they wanted these to be 1/150??

Why is there no dragon traweling net 🙁 ruined the flow of my boat

[true talon]

Damn marlins is some good money lol

[austere mulch]

define good

[ashen yarrow]

5-6m gp/h doing active marlin with best boat, wiki rate is 3m gp/h but that is "afking" instead of clicking the net for more fish

[true talon]

i got like 5m in 2 hours without knowing what i was doing XD

650 marlins that i turned into scales

[true talon]

1 hour of deep sea marlins

[chrome lantern]

They need to just get rid of the spam click method

[true talon]

Thats kinda insane for ironmen to obtain the best in slot fish lol 650+ raw fish an hour is nuts

[chrome lantern]

It's so bad

It's not engaging

[true talon]

ya i just did 1 hour of spam click its annoying

[chrome lantern]

It's just the worst kind of active

[true talon]

i think the 400 fish an hour afking is better

4m /h for a fishing method that is locked behind pretty high requirements and good investment to prevent botting

Long as they dont slam marlin on boss tables in the future, this should be decent an its rewarding enough to do.

[bronze kernel]

They honestly should just remove having to manually change the height of the net. And just have it so if you're using a net that can't potentially reach, you're SoL

[true talon]

Net management is fine, the spam clicking is stupid and they should fix that to were it’s same fish of your afk co trolling the nets and keeping up with the shoal.

[tender harness]

werent they doing something for net traps to make them not annoying?

[hard axle]

They’re generally good with reports

It’s just that Leagues sucked up all of the team lol

and they prio the League issues first

[tender harness]

cant wait for one singular update this week

gem bag which will some how break something else in game

[manic star]

Hopefully it somehow fixes poh’s

[hard axle]

Zulrah fix please

It’s been 2-3 weeks

[manic star]

Rookie numbers, get in line

[tender harness]

gem bag breaks zulrah further
halberds no longer work again

[hard axle]

Zulrah hitting me with the Venom marachas

[tender harness]

but surely they realized that people are annoyed that main game has no fucking updates right?

surely?

baited game news ping

[winter hearth]

Sorry 🙁

[manic star]

It’s okay, were used to it now

[tender harness]

its all good used to it gotta have a little fun here and there on a monday

[minor whale]

At least we know some of the JMods are reading the feedback
Not Goblin's job to develop content so it's nice we know he's reading this channel pretty actively

[winter hearth]

on a bank holiday no less!

(I wish I could develop content tbf, I'm too stupid for RuneScript)

[minor whale]

I always forget that the UK has bank holidays that aren't actual holidays

[tender harness]

ye all the gripes aside of cadence of main game stuff its probably never said enough its way more than appreciated to see feedback being read even if its not necessarily acknowledged

[bronze kernel]

Unless it's something like fixing things like impossible clue steps if you don't have a relic and a clue scroll relic TP getting you stuck

[hard axle]

Hear me out, bug out the exact 5 or so bosses I need so they can only do 0-1 damage and we’ll call it even

[minor whale]

They're just like
Hey it's a day where everything is closed

[bronze kernel]

Bro. That one Kandarin step where it gets you stuck was a thing too back from the last League as well

[winter hearth]

if my fiancée didn't tell me when they're coming up I'd genuinely have no idea, it's always a nice surprise to hear '3 day weekend!' after finishing work on a Friday

[minor whale]

Yeah I bet them being pretty random days makes it hard to remember exactly when they are

[hard axle]

Trying to region lock clues had been a pain every single league iirc.

TBR was the only one that got it right?

[bronze kernel]

To be honest

[tender harness]

I only knew it was a bank holiday in the UK today because I did a tenant to tenant migration for a customer over in the leeds area
who just happened to tell us it was a bank holiday

[minor whale]

I struggle remembering when Labor Day and Memorial Day are and those are our 2 most "random" holidays

[bronze kernel]

The issue is we no longer has Misthalin. And it's the first time ever that was the case.

The Air Obelisk step was probably only tagged as Wildly because you normally could just access it from Edgeville

[tender harness]

should have taken the clue relic

smh

[bronze kernel]

That one step they removed in Varrock was probably flagged as Kandarin since you need to kill an Ardy monk

[bronze kernel]

I did. It's a matter of principle

[tender harness]

I do hope atleast for next leagues when ever it is

they make clues good again

kinda sad to see them so butchered

[bronze kernel]

To be honest

Just flat out make the clue relics a passive for T4

1/15, max rolls, min steps

Give that to everyone

Open the door up for something new that isn't just "Make clue scrolls common and quicker"

[tough nacelle]

I too rely on my wife to tell me when I have a holiday coming up 😂

[velvet orchid]

Gm goblin! Go enjoy your day off!

[true talon]

Just make it with Claude what’s the worst that’s can happen.

[hard axle]

(Deletes Ironman mode)

[manic star]

Finally a good recommendation

[hard axle]

Claude will find the “issues” and delete 😭

Son of Anton moment

[tender harness]

Claude has made 300,000 pull requests
zulrah has been removed
Chambers purples have been reduced to toilet paper

[chrome lantern]

This

idk why they literally design a relic so that you have to pick between "clues are designed to be awful in leagues so take this lol" or taking something actually interesting and ignoring clues

[bronze kernel]

Yeah, they also been nerfing clue points over the years. Leagues 4 had an insane amount behind clues. They halved that amount in Leagues 5. They dropped the number by about 10% or so this year.

[velvet orchid]

I love clues but I cant stand them on leagues

I think they could make the slayer relic a passive as well

[chrome lantern]

I mean they have been progressing that direction

Even the 1/50 superior rate is a result of that

T3 passive I mean

But yeah I feel like

If they're going to make it so that you get 5x as many points

It just feels like they're going halfway with it

[bronze kernel]

Looks like it has been a thing they done since Leagues 4.

I honestly feel like integrating Slayer and Clue relic perks as passive unlocks for a tier opens up more ground for new things. If you look at T6, I'm sure if the Slayer Relic was something else, we could see a much less lopsided pick.

[chrome lantern]

It's also worth noting in this Leagues in particular what the clue relic was up against. Transmute alone was an entirely new mechanic that nobody had ever interacted with before, and that alone should be reason enough to try to put it up against other compelling options. What it really came down to in that tier was,

"Interact with a cool new mechanic that gives you resources that you couldn't get or in quantities you wouldn't normally get;"

"You either really love clues or hate clues but want the points from them, so you're willing to give up the other two relics;" or

"You're not going to be playing much and/or literally don't want to interact with certain skills at all."

That's not really a good balance of relics in my opinion, and the clue relic was definitely an outlier in the tier. Tiers 1, 2, 3, 5, and 8 were largely good balance of trade-offs (obviously specific relics could be adjusted a bit), but the clue relic and also flow state in my view did not satisfy this at all.

6 I felt like was somewhat balanced but not really things that felt like they made sense to go up against each other

Honestly at this point, especially without offering Ruinous Powers again, it would be great to see Grimoire moved into a baseline passive as well

[meager flame]

i mean the fundamental problem is that jagex puts emphasis on doing clues

[bronze kernel]

I think the clue relic not guaranteeing the contracts per casket hurt it a lot

[meager flame]

so when you go to build your league journey if you care about progressing far you just solve each problem

[bronze kernel]

I feel very stingy sometimes with them when I want to spam my scroll stack

[meager flame]

so in this case

you had clue relic OR you had to pickpocket for clues

and if you chose neither you were just fucked

[chrome lantern]

I think the issue is that Jagex sees clues as equivalent to a whole skill when it comes to points/tasks when it should just be a secondary activity that is relatively equally open to all relic choices

[meager flame]

so its actually not a very interesting choice usually

its like how soul harvest was the one way to do runecrafting reasonably this league

not interesting at all

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I don't really want to do ranger boots on my asgarnia account. I had 6 total medium clues so far and I'm at 41k points on that alt

[bronze kernel]

I also feel some of the points to return ratio is pretty bad.

[meager flame]

ya thats why larcenist generally was the correct move

this time

because it had enough clue support while also solving other problems

where the clue relic just didn't

[bronze kernel]

Larcenist was T5

Didn't compete with the clue relic

[meager flame]

all relics compete with each other

you never choose them in a vacuum

[bronze kernel]

Clues not being boosted via Larcenist I felt was also a bad choice.

I think Flow State at T7 was the biggest joke.

At T7, it's already so late into the progression. And it's competing with Reload which is basically your choice of 12 relics.

[meager flame]

ya flow state was for dummies

idk why it was where it was

[bronze kernel]

Flow State should have honestly been at T1. Maybe replace the GP aspect with the 2-tick actions aspect

I mean replace that aspect of Abundance

Instead of the GP perk, it's 2-tick actions.

[meager flame]

sometimes jagex kind of confuses me with their relic setups for leagues

like

surely they go through the same thought process we do to setup the whole run

[bronze kernel]

I can see the appeal of Flow State

[chrome lantern]

Honestly flow state is pretty bad without also having endless harvest or barbarian gathering though

[meager flame]

they have to know when they basically create trap picks

[chrome lantern]

Like imagine trying to mine with flow state

[bronze kernel]

But it's invalidated by other choices

[chrome lantern]

And nothing else

[bronze kernel]

IMO, I feel like Barbarian Gathering should have been combined with Flow State. Or most of it.

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I could see that being good

[bronze kernel]

2-tick skilling actions but if you fail a roll next one is 50% chance to succeed

Remove the bare hand and knapsack stuff

[chrome lantern]

Honestly after doing two accounts I think the two of them literally fully combined would still be a tough decision to give up endless harvest

[bronze kernel]

I regret not choosing Endless Harvest

[meager flame]

i think endless harvest is basically can't be replaced for the average person

jagex doesn't value getting something for doing absolutely nothing correctly

[bronze kernel]

I picked Abudnace and Reloaded into Barb Gathering

[meager flame]

butler had the same issue

fastest dragon trophy i've ever gotten and butler was a large part of that

[bronze kernel]

Was considering going to reload into butler too.

[meager flame]

they also didn't really think the clue thing through

because ultimately

it came down to

[bronze kernel]

I don't really aim to shoot for high ranks or anything though

[meager flame]

do i pick the clue relic and lose the really cool shit so that i can pick soul harvest as the exclusive way to do runecrafting in the tree

[bronze kernel]

Although I do feel like shooting to see if I can get rune this year instead of just reaching Addy and dipping

[meager flame]

and then reload back into the cool things

or do i pick my cool relic larcenist and reload soul harvest

it was basically one of those two

and anything else was basically just signing off on not doing something

[bronze kernel]

RC this year was weird since it was Soul Harvest or bust

[chrome lantern]

I did zeah rc to 99 on one of my accs

[bronze kernel]

Although if you picked Map, you could use the Nature Altar

[chrome lantern]

Barb gathering and evil eye so no buffs

[bronze kernel]

It's not as fast, but it's something

This also depends on what other regions you picked

[meager flame]

im pretty sure zeah rc was actually slower than the library when i was looking at that earlier on

[bronze kernel]

I picked Wildly so I have thousands of thousands of essence from Larran Chest

[meager flame]

just a lot more afk

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I did recognize that but I was just afking it

[meager flame]

but yeah i think next league

clue relic should just be broken up into passives over a few tiers

maybe the tiers that don't give you exp buffs

and they should make sure they give multiple angles for each skill

so there isn't like

one rc solve that makes sense etc

or at the very least make sure they touch on the skills that can be really slow like rc and agility

bc if they don't they'll create a pretty standardized meta

i also hope they focus on generally more active and powerful relics

instead of letting me afk or just gain while offline

just make the relics strong enough when i do play that it makes up for it

same for the combat tbh

give me all the op infinite healing items etc but at least expect me to click on them

it doesn't need to be automatic lol

[bronze kernel]

Although I do feel not bringing back Bankers Note this year was a good choice since that just funneled everything into that.

[ashen yarrow]

first 2 leagues clue scrolls were not stackable without clue relic

[bronze kernel]

Was talking about the Slayer perk of boosted superiors

[strong breach]

not sure if this is only a me issue but clue scroll plugin isnt working for hot and cold master steps. anybody else running into this issue?

[tacit wharf]

on leauges? yes

[strong breach]

yeah on leagues

darn

any fix or do i actually have to try and do a clue step

[tacit wharf]

good news is, at least u can narrow it down to the region

[strong breach]

i suppose

[wheat mirage]

@winter hearth Jagex Launcher banner says game update is at 10 AM UTC and status page says 11 AM UTC

[winter hearth]

has been updated, was a small miscommunication

[wheat mirage]

Seems like the time is wrong in #game-news also btw 😅

[winter hearth]

Fixed, apologies, not my finest start to a week 🙃

[wheat mirage]

Great! No problem, hopefully you had a great day off yesterday 🙂

[craggy wind]

Another reset pact planned for tomorrow?

[narrow otter]

Oh i really hope so. I messed up my mains last pacts, and it ended my league 🙁.
Would also like to check out thrown without regrinding torva lol.

[craggy wind]

Man, I know we had a lot of resets, but I apparently used one without remembering half asleep or something so my “final build” was not what I intended so it’s suboptimal to say the least. It’s hard to finish out the last 4 with it and I wanted to do a thorns / crossbow / water mage thing 😂

[tacit void]

i really wanna try blindbag again at endgame, but i would need 2 resets 🙂 one to blindbag and one away from it again lul

[gaunt minnow]

I used 2 resets and I’m on 70k pts

Idk how you guys managed to use them all lmao

[worldly blaze]

build fomoers

[gaunt minnow]

This is why DPS calcs exist, hope this helps

[tacit void]

they are not all used, but i dont wanna waste them

[worldly blaze]

I've used 2 resets as well

actually 3

[tacit void]

trying out different builds shouldnt be punishing.

[worldly blaze]

been on hally blindbag since day 1, reset to 1t staves and prayer pen to cheese echo cg (was wayyyy faster), reset back to blindbag

[tacit void]

not like u lose your accounts if u dont spend all resets, so why be against it?

[worldly blaze]

had to blow a reset to drop the multi-hit thrown capstone cause it was griefing me at nylos

no need for that guy to be so smug tho

70k points with over a month left in the league screams unemployed

[tacit void]

i started blindbag, reset into light 1h thorn and powered staff and got stuck so i spent another reset into water mage. now i wanna try blindbag again but that would be risky

[gaunt minnow]

They’ve been through this multiple times, if respecs were unlimited people would feel the need to respec for every bit of content which is annoying af

You’re not being punished for trying new builds

[tacit void]

no one said unlimited

[gaunt minnow]

Well atm you have what 7 or 8 respecs?

How many do you need lol?

[tacit void]

5

[gaunt minnow]

Isn’t it more than that?

[meager flame]

theres really no reason you cant earn more resets they just made bad game design choices

[tacit void]

i needed 3, and i would like to try blindbag but that would require 2 reests,

[meager flame]

they could've just made it somewhat difficult so nobody was willing to grind them endlessly to change per boss

but achieveable if you just wanted to try something different

i think its really obvious that it should've been that way lol

but

its also really obvious we should be able to restart our league experience from the ground up if we want

but 15$

[tacit void]

yeah, this complex system doesnt fit into a "permanent" choice model like old combat masteries

a weekly reset would be nice.

[meager flame]

im pretty sure it just follows the same logic as resetting a character mid league

[gaunt minnow]

The could’ve done a different system. Maybe pay a certain amount of gp for a respec but then abundance would be even stronger

[meager flame]

it would obviously be better that way but we would have fewer reasons to pay them extra sub fees

[gaunt minnow]

What other system could they have used

[meager flame]

so they don't do it

it doesn't have to be gp it would probably just be something like x number of boss kills or xp or whatever so you could earn more but it was a big enough time sink that you think twice

[gaunt minnow]

I assumed they would be adding more resets later on in the league to let people try out different builds

[meager flame]

instead of just constantly farming respecs for each boss

[tacit void]

it might keep some people playing for more than two weeks

i really wanna try out blindbag (again) but its not worth the resets. so i will just wait until i will stop playing leagues before ruining my build

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah I don’t see any reason for them not to add some more resets especially since it’s a new system people are still figuring out

[tacit void]

maybe when we get to week 4, halfway through the league. i like the system but not being able to try all builds is a shame

well, all the builds my areas would allow 🙂 we are still locked to that

[narrow otter]

Idd, i finished my last respec on dins thorns blindbag but I messed up the allocations. It functions, but there's also frustrating blindbag bugs 🙂
I'd like to be able to try thrown as well.

[chrome lantern]

I do think that it would be way better if there were unlimited tbh, or maybe as a compromise if you were able to have a limited number of resets but multiple final loadouts of pacts that you could switch between at a bank

That way you wouldn’t be spending a ton of time resetting for every single content but you could have a few things you could switch between. That would also alleviate people stressing about resetting for just one piece of content, and stuff being drastically skewed toward specific builds

I don’t really see it as problematic if I could freely switch between an afk build and an active build, as one example, or something with thorns/AoE versus something else.

But I do see the concern if people were feeling like they had to be resetting before every single boss and having a specific pact setup for each different content

[gaunt minnow]

This is exactly what we didn’t want

Idk about you but for me it was really f*ing annoying respeccing for every boss

It’s just the fact that menuing sucks

I just wanna play the game

[velvet orchid]

I only respeced once at the end. I think limited resets is the right move makes you plan out your route. They gave us 2 extra free ones because it's a fresh system.

I do think there shoukd be a way to get more resets incase you royally fuck up but it should be a separate grind with s time commitment

Defeat 25 echo bosses after obtaining the unique item from the encounter something like that

Could also just do 1 a week or something aswell.

[tacit wharf]

they gave out more than enough resets

[velvet orchid]

I ironically re enjoyed how scuff my early game was.

I didnt plan it out and had a horrible early game/mid game build made it interesting

[ashen yarrow]

most builds are already locked behind regions, so unlimited resets will not solve it either

it is just very hard for them to add some method to farm resets without it also being repetitive and annoying

[tender harness]

no more leagues updates
get back to main game

[ashen yarrow]

like 100 kc on echo boss per reset and now everyone is stuck killing echo bosses for 30min to reset

[minor whale]

Tomorrow is almost assuredly just more leagues stuff
They said the gem back stuff was next week

If we're extremely lucky we might get the trouver update since unpolled

[tender harness]

surely more leagues updates will sit well
surely

[ashen yarrow]

well they already told that they will leave a lot of league stuff to not get changed so might start getting main game stuff this/next week

[minor whale]

More things for them to add to the list of stuff they'll fix next league

[chrome lantern]

I’ve said it many times but Leagues 3 was the best by far in concept but fell far short in actual implementation and most of the complaints would’ve been solved if the unlock system weren’t trivialized, relic fragments weren’t rarer than unique drops at bosses, and if there were actual UI/systems in place for presets/swapping

[tender harness]

there is almost no chance in hell we see main game updates this week

[sacred oracle]

I'm not so sure about that. Didn't they give us a long list of bugs last week that won't be fixed?

Or are they meant to deliver the bugs they said will be fixed this week?

[chrome lantern]

But yes that’s why I said only 2-3 presets for pacts that you could swap between, as a compromise, so that people wouldn’t just be respeccing fully for every fight

[minor whale]

Probably gonna fix the things they said they were aware of and working on, and none of the stuff they said they would fix next league

[gaunt minnow]

I would’ve liked some type of dual spec system where you can swap between 2 specs with only 2/3 respecs total

[obsidian venture]

Praying for trouver changes tmrw

[gaunt minnow]

But this is what they went with 🤷🏻‍♂️

[minor whale]

This week's game update is probably just gonna be this

[obsidian venture]

Unlimited pact resets doesn’t make too much sense when stuff is limited

Certain regions hard limit builds

Idk how they could have explained it better for folks but so many were lost

Not as noon friendly this time around, but more interesting with the choices

[gaunt minnow]

We had a week of knowing pacts and possible builds with DPS calc to plan our routes

[obsidian venture]

People that are interested in that will do that

[gaunt minnow]

Cant complain if you didn’t take advantage of that

[obsidian venture]

There’s many who won’t engage

I didn’t even plan out shit. Just logged in and winged it

[gaunt minnow]

That’s fair but then why should they complain that they have a poorly optimised route

It’s lik not preparing for an exam then complaining that you failed

[obsidian venture]

Because you are allowed to complain

Right but this is a temp mode

This is a new system

People just didn’t understand what some stuff meant or how it worked

Other leagues was noob friendlier in that regard

[ashen yarrow]

I see main game doom fix there, can finally hit volatile earth with boppers after that

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah this was definitely a more complex league but all the info was available for an entire week

Can’t gasp now when you realise that your blindbag godsword build sucks

We’ve known this

[ashen yarrow]

it is same with people trying to run mage with 0 mage attack bonus early on and were surprised they kept splashing on things with high mage defence

[gaunt minnow]

Literally lol

[chrome lantern]

Yeah imo planning is like the least interesting part of leagues which is why locking in regions and relics really sucks and I’m glad we’re at least moving away from that for combat

[gaunt minnow]

It’s the best part for me

The pre league hype is so fun

[chrome lantern]

This leagues I did more planning not because I wanted to but because I felt forced to

[minor whale]

I think blindbag was calced to be really high dps by some of the JMods, issue is they were calcing theoretically without knowing about all the bugs it has

[gaunt minnow]

Whenever I go into a league blind I pick the wrong shit and burn out, but when I plan a more optimised route I get dragon

[minor whale]

It's just kinda lame this league has 2.5 viable builds

[ashen yarrow]

yeah they tried to fix wiki calc with the wiki devs in last few days before launch and realised wiki had correct calc the whole time

[minor whale]

Air/water/thorns mage and then crossbow with the kbd crossbow

[chrome lantern]

Wow you just described a large part of why irrevocable choices suck

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah agreed with that I would’ve loved to go melee this league just didn’t wanna burn out because it sucks

[gaunt minnow]

Yes but that’s the entire design core of leagues

And when they strayed from that people didn’t like it and they didn’t get the numbers they wanted

[chrome lantern]

It wasn’t until they decided they wanted to only make leagues Trailblazer v5

It’s the worst part of the leagues design premise by far

[gaunt minnow]

People just don’t wanna admit they want the strongest and optimised build

[minor whale]

It's not that necessarily, they just want the thing they chose to be viable and not intentionally bad

[chrome lantern]

Again, the biggest shortcomings of leagues 3 were a bad UI and the unlocks not being meaningful. There were many other improvements in later leagues like better task lists but leagues 3 design-premise-wise was by far the best

[minor whale]

Blind bag has worse dps and worse sustain and takes way more setup than just water thorns lmao

[chrome lantern]

I don’t want the strongest build, I want a viable build that is fun and lets me use all
combat styles

[ashen yarrow]

Like blindbag with ranged echoes is still decent. it just isnt top dps and you need to think of what weapons you have

[minor whale]

It's not just that one is better, it's that 1 is good and the other is so bad it gimps you

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah but that’s why I didn’t go blindbag even though I really really wanted to

And I ended up having a Great time with mage

But people are stubborn and will go blindbag anyway even though it sucks

[minor whale]

Yeah in a limited time gamemode people don't want to suffer through being worse by every metric

[gaunt minnow]

Then complain it sucks all league

[chrome lantern]

I have one account that is tribrid bow/light melee/powered staff and it’s super fun, and one alt that is water mage/crossbow/thorns (with king’s barrage and kandarin) and the magic is… extremely boring

[ashen yarrow]

there are way more viable builds. those are just the ones with extremely high sustain and high dps

[chrome lantern]

Tribrid is super fun but super active

[gaunt minnow]

None of them are optimised though

[chrome lantern]

I mean the light melee is

I have full spec/dclaws built out

And it ends up being what I use the majority of the time and honestly that’s really boring too

But yeah I actually have 4 unspent pact points on that build because there’s no meaningful things I can really spend them on

I can get like .5 more dps from accuracy

[minor whale]

They fucked up making the best dps also the most afk and also the most unkillable

Should be a tradeoff somewhere

But air/water/thorns is all 3 and you'll have pacts to spare

[gaunt minnow]

I don’t think they fucked up with mage at all it’s a similar level to dps from last league

[ashen yarrow]

soulreaper axe mainhand blindbag actually sounds fun to run but not many enemies allow you to stack it

[gaunt minnow]

I think they fucked up with melee and range being 20 dps less than mage

[minor whale]

Being best dps is fine, being best of every category is not

[obsidian venture]

Cbow does have a lot of drawbacks and I had that + kbd cbow

[chrome lantern]

And with my “suboptimal” tribrid build I still MVP pretty much every room in CoX and ToB

[obsidian venture]

But the dps this leagues felt kinda lame for certain things

[chrome lantern]

Even against “optimal” magic builds

[gaunt minnow]

Not with air mage

[minor whale]

Ranged last league was not good with how OP you were
Always hit every 2 ticks and healed 12 HP every 2 ticks and couldn't miss

[obsidian venture]

Yes man I’m saying other styles

[minor whale]

Water thorns is more dps and more healing than that which is wild

[obsidian venture]

Like they overdid mage and everything else is middle or ass

[gaunt minnow]

I literally didn’t bother using anything other than chins, I trained all my melee with thorns

And air/water mage

[minor whale]

Yeah same, melee got trained by thorn monkeys

[gaunt minnow]

Mage this league was the same dps as 2 t scythe last league

[obsidian venture]

In a mode where you’re limited by 40 pacts, there really wasn’t too much optimization and that’s not good

[gaunt minnow]

Scythe this league was 20 dps less than scythe last league

Melee and ranged are just super under tuned

That’s the problem imo

Mage is fine

[ashen yarrow]

it shouldnt be that large difference between mage and ranged, but for melee yeah.

non crossbow ranged sure

[gaunt minnow]

Idt any crossbow build comes close to mage dps

But I could be wrong

I hope these issues are ironed out for the next league and we can chalk this up to the pacts system being new and difficult to balance/calc

[obsidian venture]

I kept up with mage at cms

[gaunt minnow]

And people then can actually build what they want

[obsidian venture]

But the large gaps in dps is ass

If you didn’t go Meta then gg

[ashen yarrow]

max crossbow is like 10 dps less than air mage against most targets

[gaunt minnow]

If blindbbag scythes was like 45 DPS and mage was 50 people wouldn’t care but with it being 30 vs 50 you’re just wasting your own time farming the scythes you need

[ashen yarrow]

the main issue with comparing dps with others in raids is pact/gear differences as well as how well players can keep up the dps. Like i see some water mages still bringing sharks with them and start eating instead of attacking

[obsidian venture]

I hope blood vials don’t tank

Tob gave enough of it already

[gaunt minnow]

Also leagues definitely attracts a noobier player, those people potting raids usually aren’t the same people you’re doing efficient cm and hmts with in main game

[restive storm]

What the heck is a leagues

[hard axle]

Because of course it did lol

god forbid food be as good as brews

[south void]

A fever dream I tried for the first and last time.

[restive storm]

So… it sucks?

[gaunt minnow]

I have all the leagues and dmm unlocks on my iron

Temp game mode players win again

[south void]

Started confusing as a first time leaguer, realized it was better to wait until Jagex made some QOL fixes and follow yt vids to maximize points, started to make a little sense, realized I need more than one style for the bosses in the areas and then it just devolved into "log in, follow task list, get everything unlocked", ok great I did all that in 1 week, and have the points I want for rewards, time to go back to main game.

[chrome lantern]

I got over 100k points and spent none of them this dmm on my iron

None of the rewards were good

Got everything last time

[gaunt minnow]

I just got the rewards for the sake of it

[south void]

Same tbh, 92k points on two accounts and just sold the rewards off.

[gaunt minnow]

But agreed the dmm rewards this time round were so much worse compared to last time

[chrome lantern]

Not going to make my items look worse or waste bank space

Points stay

I made that mistake with leagues virtus and man does that look so garbage

Bank slot being wasted on the nexus kit as well, it looked far worse than I anticipated

The stupid masks/faces ruined all the leagues 5 rewards

[south void]

How much would we have to pay the bankers for unlimited bank spaces if anyone had to guess?

[chrome lantern]

Mildly interesting color scheme ruined

Leagues virtus looks bad with just the colors alone though

[thick beacon]

they got us paying 1b for 40 space at top end and thats raw hard cash to

maybe 10trillion

[worldly kraken]

Finally the back and forth is over 😭 I was beginning to get worried Vampyrium would get held up over a sandwich

[austere mulch]

Leagues virtus is some of the ugliest gear in game imo

I’m a huge “if a kit exists, I want it” person but I can’t for the life of me put kits on virtus for the maybe 2 times I’ll ever use it. Just too ugly, even in the bank

[true talon]

Mainly because bowfa kit is kinda meh at end game

[restive storm]

Bis endgame PvP but they’re trying their absolute best to kill that and never bring it back

[gaunt minnow]

yeah even without a tbow I barely use mine just shadow or blowpipe everything

maybe cox will gimme soon tho 🙏

[chrome lantern]

Unfortunately I use virtus a lot because imbued heart is a meme item that strangleholds an entire combat style outside of raids (and I’m an ironman), and also only 1/3 anc

[chrome lantern]

I also just didn’t like the recolor. Bofa/crystal already have so many recolors and I don’t use any of those either

[chrome lantern]

And yeah I don’t think anyone even needs to mention the complete nothing kit that is the Toxic staff of the dead

[frozen lion]

let me guess

leagues update...

[haughty spruce]

how long client gonna be down for todays update?

[minor latch]

tempmode scape

[ashen yarrow]

should be no downtime

Leagues bug fixes mainly, some sailing and main game stuff mixed in

Like ironman get their bar unnote npc to cannonball furnace

[frozen lion]

3/10, see you next week

[ashen yarrow]

Can finally do doom volatile earth with double hitting weapons in main game too

[lofty venture]

Insane that we pretty much no new content this year so far. Last year it was almost every week something new

[minor latch]

dont forget we got a cow boss

[lofty venture]

Yeah that was fun for 5 mins

[loud ivy]

no

you can tele grab sea npcs loot now!

[frozen lion]

ok

[tender harness]

Oh boy game update
And its leagues shit

[loud ivy]

its just so insane we wont have main game content the whole year other than a cow boss until july

[tender harness]

Insane? It's not acceptable

$14.99 and we have a worse content drought than modern wow

I dont mean to be rude to anyone especially those who like leagues or have worked on leagues
But temp game modes should not be pulling away from the main game. And if they are perhaps its time to stop and re-evaluate. Stuff like the cow boss is fine in moderation and dropped where made sense. But to have that be the only content

Is actually insulting

[crystal halo]

nah ill be rude towards whoever is planning all of these updates

[ripe cradle]

luckily u dont run out of content in this game

[crystal halo]

doesnt deserve their job

[minor whale]

Welp
About as bad as I expected

[loud ivy]

like can we get an update blog of raids 4 rewards

literally something man

anything

[frozen lion]

616 days since no Noxious halberd (s) release

[loud ivy]

i really hope they just drop something like arraxor again that isnt on the roadmap like previously

never gona happen though

[old shadow]

Tbh halberd (s) would be unnecessary

[frozen lion]

Would be fair match to rancour

[old shadow]

The appeal of rancour orn is that it’s a BiS

Nally is only a BiS in pvp

[frozen lion]

isnt it great on corp?

[old shadow]

Oh right but that content’s so dead i forgot it even existed

Corp, kree w/ sfh, melee zulrah

[frozen lion]

I would love to do it if they changed how loot works on public worlds

[wispy current]

How much longer is leagues?

[tender harness]

Too long

Can guarantee you next week is more leagues updates

[wispy current]

Straight into all stars too, rip summer main game updates

[minor whale]

Another 5 weeks I believe

Straight into All Stars

[narrow otter]

I'd love like 3 more pact resets over the coming weeks tbf.

Just to try more stuff out lol

[crystal halo]

thank fuck i will be on vacation for 5 weeks

and comeback to nothing

[minor whale]

Jagex really said hey
"Watch this"
Raises price, releases no main game content for 6 months, releases b3b temp gamemodes leading into a gamemode normal people can't play

[crystal halo]

no they can pay a lot of money to watch people play

[tender harness]

And its funny so many defended the shitty ass road map
But guys we have raids 4
New vampire quest
Literally nothing added of substance to the game since sailing but hey raids 4 cope

[sick goblet]

Why are there still quest requirements for Leagues VI content?

I genuinely don’t understand why we need to complete quests to unlock content like Amoxliatl, Doom, TOA, and other activities. Leagues is supposed to be about having fun, experimenting, and progressing quickly in a temporary game mode. For many players, questing simply isn’t fun. So what exactly is the purpose of keeping quest requirements as barriers for content in Leagues? What positive does it actually add to the event? In my opinion, content should simply unlock through area unlocks. If you unlock the region, you should have access to the content within it without needing to grind through quests first. Leagues should focus more on gameplay freedom and less on artificial restrictions.

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1501529327865561108

[wispy current]

But no theres a dedicated sailing team dw guys

[loud ivy]

this is the worst part imo

[tender harness]

Who cares also leagues detracts from main game the actual game that matters

[loud ivy]

people who say "we have so much content this year we have BMR and raids 4!"

[narrow otter]

Did they say when the new free pact reset would be available?

[crystal halo]

raids 4 wont be this year

aint no way

[loud ivy]

it wont

itll be 2027 and they'll use the "we said winter 2026, that includes 2027"

i can guarantee it

[tender harness]

BMR
And its delayed till summer
And leechfin was a pile of shit that was reworked into a less stinky pile
Raids 4 is almost 99% 2027

[crystal halo]

team bigger than ever and update cycles longer than ever with almost nothing to show for it 😂

[loud ivy]

i just want a raids 4 updated reward blog, something, anything

[crystal halo]

it has to be someone leading the team that just doesnt know what they are doing right

[delicate glen]

While yes, there will be some Leagues fixes, we're also looking at some more Sailing changes and the Gem Bag updates from the Gathering QoL poll

[crystal halo]

cuz i know the devs can make good stuff but someone is blocking a lot of shit

[sick patio]

cry harder warden

[restive storm]

So still no more content just kinda qol changes 😭

[old dust]

When is it gonna be on?

[ashen yarrow]

I personally like the quests, huge xp rewards

[sick patio]

if youre not master or grandmaster, dont cry about lack of content cuz you still got things to do.

[tender harness]

QoL is nice. And appreciate the transparency. But doesnt really address people's main concern right now. Which is a lack of anything of substance.

And by no means do I mean disrespect love leagues and the work put in, but just from the outside looking in, it feels like leagues has pulled so much away from the main game, and its basically "here's cow boss have fun see you after all stars. " and that kind of content is great and all dont get me wrong, but added in a way that makes sense

Anywho end ramble. Thanks for the transparency.

[proper basin]

I just work here

[serene lodge]

Personally loving the QOL updates and even tho i did "complete" faster than most the changes are very nice for the people are still continuing to play Leagues.

[minor whale]

Your first message in here is crying about not getting a golden tench yet just to tell other people not to cry about not getting main game content for 6 months

Come on buddy just keep fishing you got shit to do

[restive storm]

Yeah but most pvm is boring so why would I do either of those things

[sick patio]

its a league tench lol

[tender harness]

There's nothing wrong with qol
People's frustration is lack of literally anything other than game news being drowned with leagues. Main game basically having cow boss be the only new thing since sailing also doesnt help

[restive storm]

At this point how long ago did the gem bag thing even pass? Feels like 4-5 weeks, and with nothing else happening it feels like the kinda update we’d get in the week following the poll lol

[delicate glen]

Yeah, I do really appreciate it doesn't solve the concerns expressed by you and like you say I'm just trying to give you some transparency at the very least.

[loud ivy]

any eta when we can expect initial summer sweep up blog?

[delicate glen]

Nothing I can confirm I'm afraid.

[loud ivy]

ok

[minor whale]

Time to check back next month I guess
Damn

[loud ivy]

pretty much

[crystal halo]

2 months atleast

[buoyant cargo]

They're literally working on two extremely large pieces of content to be released later in the year. They put out a content/update roadmap for during the Winter Summit and have been pretty good at sticking to it so far, I'm not sure why people are so surprised that there isn't massive mystery content drops happening.

[cedar abyss]

It seemed like simple changes to implement too which has made the wait / leagues catfishing more upsetting to deal with.

[visual nest]

Brother leagues slop is getting too much

[loud ivy]

i disagree personally? bmr was supposed to be start of the year, then got delayed again cause of sailing changes lol

now its summer

[lament meadow]

It's spring.

[restive storm]

We aren’t surprised there are no massive content drops; we’re surprised there’s no content drops whatsoever, and even qol is severely lacking to the point it feels like nobody is even working on the game lol

[minor whale]

In the same timeframe that we got CoX, Inferno, ToB, PNM, Varlamore, ToA, Araxxor, Yama, Doom, we were getting plentiful main game updates that weren't just those pieces of content.

[loud ivy]

i meant bmr itself is in summer...

[crystal halo]

they legit fit in 2 raids , inferno, ds2, gg's, mobile osrs, bryo, a taste of hope and lots more in a year in between cox and tob

[minor whale]

If their dev team is 3x bigger than then and we're getting less content and it's always getting delayed

[drifting ermine]

It's kind of wild to me to increase the subscription price and release less content than before right after that. I think people wouldn't have been so disappointed with the price increase last year, around the time araxxor was released, since there was new content basically every 2-3 weeks.

[minor whale]

What are we even doing

[lament meadow]

You're not wrong, but different dev teams, resourcing and potentially other things you have 0 oversight on.

Impossible to compare where we were to where we are.

[crystal halo]

how was the team in 2017 able to do so many updates small and big updates like raids like it was nothing

they are just trying to squeeze out as much money as they can from these price increases

and give us so much less in return

[lament meadow]

The blueprint to every* online product then

[sick patio]

warden still bawling. you max yet?

[crystal halo]

sure but people riding jagex and saying stop crying are the problem

[lament meadow]

Tench status

[minor whale]

It's extremely easy to compare the 2017 team to the current team and be heavily discouraged that the team has grown exponentially and the content cycle has slowed down dramatically

[tender harness]

[lament meadow]

You can do a surface deep analysis and see it based on deliverables - but you have 0 idea of the internal mechanisms. Was my point.

[restive storm]

Not to mention content is buggier than ever, and there’s essentially 0 communication from the team compared to back then too

[tender harness]

doom moments
yama contracts

[crystal halo]

yama contracts is the funniest shit ever

how you gonna release a unbeatable contract

[lament meadow]

Sink 100m, do it

[minor whale]

You forgot this too

The pre-update no-update

[crystal halo]

classic

[tender harness]

Good old pvp rota

[restive storm]

It gets exhausting wanting this game to be good man

[buoyant cargo]

no ones keeping you here buddy

[lament meadow]

The game is good, what do you mean

[buoyant cargo]

if you're not enjoying it, find something you do enjoy

[crystal halo]

no

[alpine laurel]

let me iiiin

[lament meadow]

It was down for like 1m

It's back up, just relaunch

[alpine laurel]

oh

[restive storm]

There’s a reason I haven’t been actively subbed to the game for months now lol

[alpine laurel]

thank you

now i can keep dying by vardorvis

[dawn jackal]

The game is what, 2.5x bigger (player count) than it was in 2017?

The requirements internally for pushing out content are surely much different

And what do you want some mod to come in here and just get spit roasted

[frozen lion]

clans are dead content except for chat

[restive storm]

Sure but from my pov as a player, why does this matter at all to me when they just make less content now while they have more staff, and we pay more to play than we did back then lol

[dawn jackal]

It doesn't

[restive storm]

It doesn’t matter at all to me what stuff looks like internally I can only see what they give me, which isn’t much nowadays

[dawn jackal]

But it's also a dead end to try and expect them to operate the same as they did 9 years ago

I would love for leagues to never exist again

I don't play it and it has an effect on the update stream for the main game

[frozen lion]

I would rather there be no leagues and such fine cosmetics be available from main game content

[dawn jackal]

As long as leagues provides more immediate growth than sweep up stuff we are destined to get leagues every year

and large breaks in the main game content

[frozen lion]

The only positive I see is, its easier to catch up with the vast amount of already existing content

Tho QoL should still be as regular as without leagues, for me perfecting existing content is more important than releasing more and more content

[dawn jackal]

Sure you are likely a very dedicated player of the game

[frozen lion]

Idk, just telling my pov

[dawn jackal]

I don't disagree with you

Just that it's a hard sell to the decision makers at Jagex

[frozen lion]

Would mostly like to see sailing expansions (probably starting with Varlamore area, so its sailing could be included in Varlamore's diary

[gaunt minnow]

told u we'd get more pact resets

[gaunt minnow]

yeah because you'd rather cry in here all day

👶 😭

[frozen lion]

I wonder if they are planning to add sailing activities to existing diaries

[hybrid pawn]

Overall it's just disappointing that we haven't really seen a game update for the main game in quite a while. Just hoping that Q3 and Q4 later this year are gonne be good at this point.

[lament meadow]

Doubt, probably make it it's own diary

[frozen lion]

oceans diary? damn that's actually even better

[gaunt minnow]

kinda hard to add achi diary tasks, do you take peoples rewards away atp?

[restive storm]

Relac O there ain’t anything better to do on the game

[lament meadow]

I'd imagine so, sailing doesn't really belong to an area

[frozen lion]

damn that's just actually dope idea

[cedar abyss]

We should buff / rework some of the current diaries too.

[gaunt minnow]

would rather they add a higher tier or a new diary completely

[frozen lion]

I hope jagex thought of this or notice this

[gaunt minnow]

master diaries

[frozen lion]

that way we also have complete varlamore area

so would love to see diaries soon

[lament meadow]

Looking forward to that Diary

[frozen lion]

elite will probly require something like minotaur kill

[tender harness]

Current diary rewards are just bad outside of like two specifics

[frozen lion]

i doubt sol

[gaunt minnow]

sol wouldnt make sense since fire cape is an elite task atm

[restive storm]

Varlamore diary gonna make me sick one day when I gotta do that 🤢

[gaunt minnow]

unless they add master diaries too

[lament meadow]

It'll probs be sol if it's elite, mino is like wave 4

[tender harness]

What

[frozen lion]

mino is wave 7

its quite far in, i think its fine for elite

[lament meadow]

Is it not a reinforcement earlier?

[tender harness]

No

[lament meadow]

mb

[dawn jackal]

Do people enjoy doing diaries?

[lament meadow]

depends on the task lol

[frozen lion]

i think even hard would require at most killoing manticore in colosseum

[frozen lion]

I do, can't say for others

[dawn jackal]

I feel like we mostly get diary adjacent rewards as boss drops now

[cedar abyss]

some diaries are extremely beneficial

most others are just mediocre.

[tender harness]

Some? Like two of them

[dawn jackal]

yea the rewards are good but going through them is largely tedium

[frozen lion]

Diaries are very nice to have

[dawn jackal]

so they turned a teleport into a boss drop or whatever

[restive storm]

Just gives something to do/work toward which is good

[dawn jackal]

Sure it's something with high reqs

that's a good point

[tender harness]

84 buckets of sand a day.... yippie

[frozen lion]

damn so much looking forward varlamore and ocean diaries

[cedar abyss]

Jagex has a done a lot with rebalancing older content they should rebalance the diaries too.

[tender harness]

Wildy runes that i never can be bothered to claim

[frozen lion]

but there are bunch of useful

[tender harness]

Desert and lumby

Kourend is just qol

[frozen lion]

bunch of teleports

[tender harness]

Only matters for clues

[frozen lion]

wilderness one was great for making eternal amulet of glory

falador shield is also nice, daily 2 full prayer restores in 1 slot

tho i guess it depends on what content you like to do

[restive storm]

Wildy obelisks are most goated perk for sure

Would be even better if they gave us some kind of fun Wildy update 👀

[frozen lion]

I just find diaries cool with (from my pov) bunch of useful perks

[dawn jackal]

to me they are almost the pinnacle of tedium in this game

[restive storm]

Leagues slop claims that title for me

[frank hollow]

they changed prayer regen im sure i didnt read anything in release notes though

[gaunt minnow]

Why though?

They seem similar to quests and any task system like leagues or dmm

[gaunt minnow]

Worst part about diaries is the 5 in all roles task and however many thousand chompie kills

[dawn jackal]

seems self explanatory to me

just tedius checklist stuff

[gaunt minnow]

That’s what an MMO is

[restive storm]

id say if ur already like near max level when they release yea theyre boring

[gaunt minnow]

What in this game isn’t a tedious checklist

[restive storm]

but good progression/perks for accounts as they build

[gaunt minnow]

I usually like how they’re quite quick to check off once you have the requirements (other than lv 5 all roles and chompie kills)

[restive storm]

kq head

[gaunt minnow]

But ofc there has to be some element of grinding

[dawn jackal]

so you enjoy that you don't have to engage with them for a long time

[gaunt minnow]

No that’s just your interpretation of what I’ve said

I like how it’s just ‘make one inventory of double nats’ once you hit 92 rc not make 10k nats (for the most part, other than chompie kills and lvl5 all roles)

Like if you can kill 10 chompies you can kill 5000 chompies, what’s the difference

It’s just mindless grinding

But I guess there does have to be an element of that, being an mmo

I hope there’s no stupid paint task I need to grind for weeks for the sailing tasks

[restive storm]

i usually love some good ol fash mindless grinding

[frozen lion]

1 xd

[minor whale]

Sarnie and Goblin have come in here the past couple weeks and they always get good feedback and respectful comments towards them. They're not responsible for the content drought and we always appreciate the transparency when they provide it

[pearl wyvern]

lvl 5 zebak room broken. acid pools and waves are failing to render in

[winged raptor]

damn, they fixed tentacle charges, too bad im already done with the league

[sacred oracle]

Those are actually some of the fastest ones. It's curious to me how people hate them so much when they're such a low amount of time to finish compared to, say, 96 fishing for mory

You can do level 5 all roles in a day, same with chompy kills

96 fishing, not so much

[tender harness]

chompy content is boring and would have been better if it gave hunter exp

people forget you can boost nats

and hate stew boosts

17/19 clog ( went like 1k dry on chick) and doing that with no hunter exp is small exp per chompy would atleast make it feel not as bad

[hasty depot]

Hello. Is Ardougne Hard Diary 'Catch a Red Salamander' bugged? I have tried every 'Young Tree' in the area and performed the 'Check Trap' and 'Reset Trap' actions. The in-game Achievement Diary log does not update. I have submitted a game bug report in-game.

Edit - Experienced within RuneLite. Not tried Official Client or Mobile.

[gaunt minnow]

96 fishing is automatically completed on the way to max cape if thats your goal

getting 5k chomps kills has 0 value outside of the diary

exactly the same as lvl 5 all BA

[soft pawn]

Can't belive we're still doing league updates lol

[tender harness]

young tree?

[gaunt minnow]

in fairness this is probably the busiest leagues has been this far into it

usually atp all worlds are like 10 people

[hasty depot]

Official name of the trap.

[tender harness]

chins are box traps

dont know what you're doing with trees

but thats a salamander

[hasty depot]

Corrected my comment to Salamander, thanks.

It works now. I went into the Official Client. Attempted a catch. Didn't update the log. Then tried RuneLite again. This time it updated the log. Strange.

[sacred oracle]

It's only 1k chompy kills (5k is clog completion), and you'd get it on the way to finishing clog (like me). Level 5 BA is something you'd trivially complete on the way to pet or if you just like the minigame.

Most accounts don't have a max cape and see no need for 96 fishing

I get what you're getting at, I just don't really understand why two are useless and the other is fine. Seems arbitrary

[gaunt minnow]

agree to disagree, most accounts dont care abnout clog

and would be much more likely to max

[frozen lion]

most accounts don't care about leagues too yet here we are

[sacred oracle]

And also, regardless, someone can finish chompy and level 5 roles in less than one day

It just seems way, way overhated to me

But hey, ymmv

[gaunt minnow]

also, regardless, you afk fishing on the way to max cape

and no ones completing the clog

[frozen lion]

no1 forces anyone to do diaries

[gaunt minnow]

it makes sense to have high levle skill requirements on a diary

1k chompy kills achieves 0

[sacred oracle]

What do you mean no one's completing clog? Plenty of people have expert dragon archer chompy hat

[gaunt minnow]

did I say no one has expert dragon archer chompy hat?

no