game-update

[tough nacelle]

And assign a gp value tied to strength of the item

[meager flame]

im just saying its not a real solution is all

[brisk hill]

I understand what you mean but the greater PvP scene would suffer. I don’t think they’ll do this ever

[meager flame]

people would just shadow themselves with alts and make sure you cant kill them

[sacred oracle]

I kind of like trouver, but not because of wildy: I like that it keeps items from going to your gravestone outside of the wildy

It's convenient

I'd like it if you could apply that to all sorts of things

That feature is nice and separate from its wildy utility to me

[limber creek]

For all those times you dont claim your gravestone.

[scarlet dawn]

Yeah wildy would lose those pkers pking pvmers. Meaning less people to pk for actual pkers. Sad isnt it

[limber creek]

Which is never.

[scarlet dawn]

Wildy would only consist of those that are hardcore pkers. Gl!

[meager flame]

it just loops honestly like

[minor whale]

That's not what that means lol

[brisk hill]

I’m thankful you’re retired in sharkbrew

[meager flame]

as soon as players are actually risking anything they have a bunch of weird solutions to make sure they're not really risking anything

[sharp cave]

we need a sub catagory tbh, should "pvpers" killing pvmers be allowed to vote in pvp polls?

[sacred oracle]

If I could trouver my max cape, that would be great. I've had to keep a cons cape in my bank in case I die with max cape so I can still teleport around

[minor whale]

It means you keep the item on you when you die instead of it going to grave, which is convenient for regearing after deaths

[sacred oracle]

It's annoying wanting your max cape to conveniently get back to where you died with it

[minor whale]

Doesn't have anything to do with not claiming graves

[brisk hill]

All pvpers do this though so

[sharp cave]

it seems like the "real" pkers regard pvm killers not as pvpers at all?

[meager flame]

so jagex makes them a bunch of shitty content where they dont risk to begin with

[brisk hill]

It’s just part of the food chain lol

[brisk hill]

No it happens

[tacit wharf]

2nd max cape

[scarlet dawn]

Huh lol, Im not even represting Sb's opinion here

[limber creek]

nah this is blasphemy.

[sharp cave]

i would argue that yeah, people killing pvmers are not really pkers, same as say... going around a wow leveling zone and killing levelers as a maxed character in wow

[limber creek]

An expert upon this as well good to see.

[sharp cave]

i mean its still technically pvp right??

[brisk hill]

I’d rather fight a pker but I’m going to eat what I see

[minor whale]

Could you go deeper as to how it'd change it? If the risked items are still temporarily out of commission until repaired for a hefty fee that also gives more gp to the pker while preventing accidental loss of the item, what would that change exactly?

[sacred oracle]

That would work, and I do have two (three, actually, I think)—but it gets annoying accidentally withdrawing both of them all the time >.>

Just a tiny nuisance

[meager flame]

these are the same people

[sacred oracle]

But yeah that's what I like about trouver, and it has nothing to do with wildy

[meager flame]

like literally probably on both games at the same time

lmao

the overlap in what they do/how they act is way too much to not basically be the same guys

[minor whale]

Dude it's ok to just not be an ass sometimes when someone says something contrary to what you said.

[weary stag]

I have 2 in the bank and changed the default left click to withdraw 1 for this :)

[minor whale]

Big shocker guy who pvms a lot knows how gravestones works

[limber creek]

You have typed ass to me 5-6 times today. Can you try to have a discussion instead of attacking.
If you wanna attack i can meet you wildy.

[sharp cave]

i just hink that, creating bait (pvmers) for more people to become bait (pvm killers) for the actual "pkers" is just horrible design

[meager flame]

i mean i agree that ultimately its not a good fit for osrs

we can see how it went

[junior moss]

Anyone look at the new skilling menu update? It looks nice and all, but they made a funny mistake with the mining overview. It says that you can smith a pickaxe

[sacred oracle]

I actually don't know how to set specific withdrawal amounts for an item. Is it just a right-click thing?

[meager flame]

players vote on content most players dont enjoy being hunted so they turn around and say hey

[sacred oracle]

While bank interface is open?

[meager flame]

why dont we just not get anymore wilderness content

pvp game is now ruined

[small anvil]

You can menu swap withdraw

[meager flame]

they should be reducing friction between those two sides

[small anvil]

To 1

[sharp cave]

shift right click and use menu entry swapper

[meager flame]

rather than trying to create it

[sacred oracle]

And it only works on that particular item? That's pretty neat.

[brisk hill]

It worked though for years. Multi revs worked great. Not saying it didn’t have flaws, but it had the risk reward figured out

[weary stag]

Yeah, can only do the other normal clicks like 1/10/x/all

But it's the same menuing as changing any other left click

[brisk hill]

I’m siting some material 1 sec

[meager flame]

tbh i think it only really worked for the people pvping there

the reason people kept coming is because the risk/reward was broken in favor of reward

[limber creek]

It only worked for the pvmers pvming there. The pkers in small groups attacking pvmers. The pvmers anting the pkers in small groups. The big groups clearing worlds. You know just for everyone involved.

[meager flame]

yeah but that doesn't escape that the building block is something fundamentally unbalanced to the point that people were willing to run in and die over it

repeatedly

[true talon]

yep as an iron im more inclined to risk a infernal cape/avernic/void when pvming if i didnt need to go do hours of wilderness slayer/lms to get parchments lol.

[limber creek]

How is revs fundamentally unablanced in 2026 terms. Im curious of your findings.

[small anvil]

Revs were gp printers right

[limber creek]

oh so a pro iron update. Gee i wonder how many of those we get.

[meager flame]

like its only working at the base level because the game was showering people with undeserved loot

[limber creek]

nowhere near the amount of gp we generate today but yes for the time they were lucrative.

[meager flame]

and that's why its working today still

thats why people go in there

[true talon]

thats a pro pker update buddy, it literally causes people to risk more money for you......

[limber creek]

@minor whale calm down buddy.

[small anvil]

Like I mean their drop table was mostly alchs

Value mostly from alchs is inflationary

[limber creek]

Thinking its about the money shows where we differ in headspace here.

[small anvil]

And they're trying to avoid that a bit

[true talon]

When i go pvm i make my cape/avernic one of my protected items they are parchmented just encase, but they are always protected and never lost.

[small anvil]

With more recent drop tables

[sharp cave]

what?

if there was no money why would anyone step foot in the caves?

[true talon]

if you dont pk for money, then go do lms

[limber creek]

hes talking about parchments bro bro

[sharp cave]

oh

[brisk hill]

I must’ve missed the 10x repair cost. If this was implemented it wouldn’t be as broken. Items that had low repair cost & slip through would have to be fixed immediately

[limber creek]

Pking is fun brother.

Might be hard to understand i can try to rephrase.

[sharp cave]

thats an opinion that clearly, the majority of the player base doesnt agree with

[true talon]

ya so why are you crying about parchments being gone and being rewarded more money for pking and also being able to bring out your own good untradeables to pk with??

[tough nacelle]

They also could just increase repair costs

[carmine junco]

If this was true then pkers would just be playing in perma dmm mode or in bounty hunter

[tough nacelle]

To standardize them vs the power they offer

[limber creek]

im not crying simply discussing. my iron brother.

[carmine junco]

Most pkers in the wild are in it for the money

[limber creek]

Please don't get so worked up because ideas differ lmao

[brisk hill]

Yep that was in the original message. 10x repair cost, 9x of it goes to whoever pked

[tough nacelle]

Oh I just meant increase and standardize it at all wildy levels

[brisk hill]

Items like castle wars gear would be broken if repair cost don’t have a consequence for use

[minor whale]

You could prevent that by simply not being an ass every time someone says something you disagree with 🙂

Here's where I'd post 10 images of you "attacking" various people over the past few days lol, except this Discord doesn't like that many attachments on one post

[oblique mesa]

Increase repair costs and have it tie in with smithing 😉

[brisk hill]

As far as rags goes

[minor whale]

Ye the original game-jam idea had I think every single untradeable covered

[brisk hill]

Ahh yeah

[true talon]

Repair cost is already pretty high, its 150k if you need to fix a firecape XD

like 1m if you need to repair an avernic

[brisk hill]

I’ll look it up sounds interesting

[minor whale]

If there were any slip-throughs they'd need to be caught quick to not make shit unbearable

[limber creek]

Bro you gotta get me outta your mouth. move on lil bro.

[tough nacelle]

Tbh a fire cape is quite strong

[brisk hill]

Playing devils advocate rgoufg

Though

[tough nacelle]

But even still idc about the gp risk ngl

[brisk hill]

What would you do with gear like moonclan

[tough nacelle]

So many things poop out gp nowadays

[minor whale]

You mean shit gear that's untradeable but just strong enough it'd be annoying for them to return in?

Is that what you mean by the Moonclan example

[tough nacelle]

But black d hide and xerics are the same

And crossbow ragging

Not sure it’s a big problem

[brisk hill]

More so asking like if it were to be made a standard

Wouldn’t you think moonclan still falls into the category

[tough nacelle]

all untradeables should have a value

[meager flame]

i mean this isn't unfixable but its such a massive change jagex wont do it

[tough nacelle]

I think so, just make it proportional to the strength

[minor whale]

Yeah they'd probably need to find the closest tradeable item to its stats, and give it a value where the mangled version gives value equal to that item

[meager flame]

the big problem is that each piece of gear doesn't share enough of the burden of how strong your character is compared to say your weapon

[minor whale]

So for Moonclan which (currently) has a value of 1k gp

[meager flame]

and that some decent armor/necklace/whatever type items are literally free

jagex could just split stats up more so that your gear mattered and then just nuke free items from orbit so you cant do anything wearing them

and it would be over

but the entire rest of the game would be broken

[minor whale]

The "closest" item to it would be Xerician's

[limber creek]

i aint never payin 2.5m to repair an arkhan blade

[tough nacelle]

Thank god you can buy new ones for less

[brisk hill]

Bro let me buy it from perdu

[minor whale]

Which is 10k, so it'd actually be pretty much identical to the current value vs a tradeable comparable item

[limber creek]

just more ways of reducing risk in the wilderness by allowing people to never lose untradeables.

[tough nacelle]

They lose gp instead

[limber creek]

oh no gp

[meager flame]

tbh its actually going to get worse as time goes on

because we're all getting more and more gp and new methods are just better

but old but still mostly good items aren't going up in value

so today's return set is tomorrows rag

[brisk hill]

Not true

Dcb is not meta for multi wild

Won’t be until 100k

[limber creek]

rag is rag and will continue to be rag. rag meta is to give your opponent as little as possible.

[meager flame]

the value of 100k is not static

[oblique mesa]

Snakeskin 🤮

[meager flame]

is what im saying

[brisk hill]

Yeah I agree but you also know what I mean

[meager flame]

if we all have 100b in 6 years losing a 1m set is nothing

[limber creek]

no but the staying power of an adamant crossbow on 10 accounts all shooting you stays.

[brisk hill]

It’d have to drop a lot to be meta

[brisk hill]

Just unsure if Jagex would do an overhaul to all of the replaceable untradables. I think it has value though so ppl can bring graceful to wild or w/e else you want

[meager flame]

hopefully jagex does a good job of fighting inflation though for real bc that's been happening for awhile now

[minor whale]

Ye I think we'd probably see them first apply it to just what's currently parchable

[meager flame]

like the player with a max bank in 2017 didn't have shit compared to us now lol

and if that keeps going who knows what this shit is gonna look like

[minor whale]

Maybe extend the parchables out once it's implemented

[silk thicket]

Would be down for that ngl

[minor whale]

Currently the cut-off for what is and isn't parchable is uh

Kinda weird as shit

[silk thicket]

Even addy cbow is stupidly strong tho, but that’s carried player stats and would be a big rebalance

[minor whale]

It's basically just void -> ba items -> defenders -> bis capes -> ancient sceptre -> rune pouch

Which is I guess the majority of what people who pk would bring in to the wildy to pk with would bring

[brisk hill]

And the occasional fella who loses graceful

[minor whale]

Yeah I'm saying current parchable

Is just that list

[brisk hill]

Really it should be aimed for pvmers

& not PvP imo

[meager flame]

i mean its probably how it should've been designed from the start but it would be really hard to fix it all now

[brisk hill]

Void in multi would be broken

[minor whale]

Ye if you want it to impact pvp less

[brisk hill]

Fun but broken

[meager flame]

since players have specific setups and number of switches etc in mind for everything

[minor whale]

Parching void would probably have to go

I don't think I've ever seen someone pvming in void in the wildy

It's both not worth it dps wise and not worth it trouver cost wise

[brisk hill]

Issue is though & go with me for a second

Wouldn’t pvpers be forced to play the game, which is a huge complaint from the Ironman side

I mean we already are: I have to train my acc to pk you

[minor whale]

I voted yes to those PVP-only item skips 🤷‍♂️

I think if you solely want to do one thing in the game then making you do the rest of the content (not just the stats but all the other stuff associated) you should be able to

[meager flame]

i actually think the people actively pking already play the game enough the stuff i dont like about pking accounts is that jagex doesn't give you enough control

like

you should be able to opt out of ruining your account for example

[minor whale]

without needing to go grind 175qp for solely pvp barrows gloves or some shit

[restive storm]

Yes -xp lamps pls

My 3 def hurts

[oblique mesa]

Yeah basically forcing PKers to have 81 herb for surge pots was weird

[meager flame]

but instead you're just sitting there waiting on the day you misclick or they do something silly and change your attack style

and then account fucked congrats

idk jagex had that proposal back a few years ago now where it was official account builds or whatever idr what they called it

that was actually going the right way

[icy relic]

How is it weird to ask pkers to play the game for player progression like the rest of us

[meager flame]

but people freaked out

[minor whale]

Stuff like the calamity gear in the pvp arena would be completely fine imo for those people who solely want to pk
I think it failed for a couple reasons though
Older pvp accounts who did have to grind out that stuff don't want a freebie thrown at others after them without needing to grind out what they did, and most pvmers don't want to give a free pass to skip content to pvmers which would solely be used to kill them with

[zinc galleon]

yall ever talk to the guy at the GE about missing quest exp? I saw someone write about it on reddit once and got quite a bit of exp from quests i didn't realize they changed

[upper lichen]

Somewhat late reply but surely u know that wildy, bh and dmm arent alike at all, right

[silk thicket]

I think it’s fine but pkers tend to have multiple accounts in different cb brackets

[meager flame]

ya one of my accounts got insane rewards from that i think it was probably a gim

[silk thicket]

So they’re doing the grind x times

[brisk hill]

It’s not. It’s just that irons use the excuse that they are forced to interact with certain content.
Pkers would also feel forced if void was suddenly meta for everything wildy, let’s say

[meager flame]

i had just finished quest cape before they released that update on whatever account it was

[brisk hill]

I’m not saying feel bad for us because I don’t feel bad for the irons that feel forced

[restive storm]

It isn’t but it also isn’t weird to ask pvmers to play Wildy content like the rest of us

[brisk hill]

Just interesting to point out

[restive storm]

Calamity gear is basically moons gear 2.0 tbh, it basically came into the game but slightly worse

[meager flame]

tbh im more in the camp of pvp and pvm being separate than i am having everyone being forced to do the same thing

[minor whale]

It didn't even enter main game

[meager flame]

but thats because i've played too many games to expect pve and pvp balancing to coexist

[minor whale]

It's just chilling in pvp arena

[true talon]

I love the wildy, ironmen who hate the wildy are weak minded, its a insanely lucreative place for irons esp in the early game and has some of the best training spots as well.

[meager flame]

i know that shit wont work

[minor whale]

Which people do solely to get rune pouches and that's it

It has no tradeable items associated

[restive storm]

I’m saying moons year is basically the same thing

[minor whale]

Bots don't do it

Oh yeah it's similar

[restive storm]

1 waying Atlatl to melee weapons poggiesssss

[minor whale]

Tribrid x3 armor

[meager flame]

its not even about irons its just people in general

[restive storm]

They don’t know if hally or atlatl is coming next

[carmine junco]

If you enjoy pvp for the sake of it you'd be engaging in the modes centered around it, not hunting people in the wildy. Of course they're not the same, that's my point.

[meager flame]

most of them freak out about dying and have an anxiety attack or something over it

[zinc galleon]

fr like half the ppl in the agily fcs and rogue chest fcs are irons, it's free gp/resources most of the time

[meager flame]

instead of realizing the numbers are absolutely stacked in your favor and long term

you cant lose in the wild

its too generous for that

[silk thicket]

Disagree as a former skiller who dropped wikdy clues

[brisk hill]

I think most pkers do! But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ask for things to be made better

[silk thicket]

PvP is fun af

[meager flame]

im not saying it isn't but you have to understand that there are gamers out there that have like

idk how to even say this politely for them

[true talon]

How i do a clue in the wildy.
Bank all items, grab a crystal bow/msb, take clue + spade. teleport to clue, kill wizard/trio. die an continue about my day.

[brisk hill]

For example BH is one style of pking. They talked about bringing in tribrid BH for an hour the week they released BH & haven’t since. Well if I wanna tribrid I’m forced lms or wilderness

[meager flame]

they basically have some kind of mental block when it comes to pvp in any game for any reason and just get insanely emotional about it and should just stay away for their own mental health

[minor whale]

PvP is fun
I just think Jagex has done a very bad job of incentivizing people fighting other people who want to fight, ever since the inception of them adding the demibosses to the game

[meager flame]

and theres a lot of them

its better for everyone if they're allowed to just never see pvp lol

[minor whale]

Pre-2015 people had positive thoughts about pvp because it was pretty uncommon to find someone who hops into your content after 30 seconds of being there just to bolt you in 200k of gear until you leave

But then it became more and more "we need more people in the wilderness to feed the pkers who want to do that" and people got a sour taste in their mouth

[icy relic]

You can't incentivize people to fight without creating an abusable system

[meager flame]

theres also the thing where in every game i've ever played that tries to do a lot of pve and pvp

[minor whale]

Honestly old Edge BH was solid and shouldn't have been removed

[meager flame]

that they always hold each other back if they're expected to run with the same set of balancing/rules

[icy relic]

It just has to be fun enough on its own merit to attract players

[minor whale]

It got bopped because there were bots

But they ignored Zulrah bots like crazy

Edge BH had a few worlds and was MUCH easier to combat botting on

But they just got rid of it

[brisk hill]

And with our current content no new player is going to be attracted

Bring back a multi hotspot where noobs can learn

[meager flame]

thats why most of the good pvp games are only pvp games and vice versa

[icy relic]

I don't think it is a content issue

[minor whale]

No new player wants to go into the wilderness and be confused by the 45 different rules that only apply to them, making sure they have the right in-game setting turned on so they don't accidentally skull up when they didn't intend to, and absolutely 0 tutorial in-game for any of these different rules

[icy relic]

The fact that wildy is winner takes all in a game with ever increasing gear/power/skill creep

[minor whale]

It's one of the only places in the game where things work differently and you aren't explicitly told in what ways

[meager flame]

this is true but osrs doesn't even support a solution for this or try

most games especially long running ones like say idk cs

[minor whale]

It's both a confusing mess of things that simply don't make sense to most players, and something that at best most people feel like they're coming out neutrally for engaging in it

[meager flame]

tend to have elo or some type of ranking system

so new people can go be new together

[restive storm]

I keep trying to take away the weird rules and people here (and jagex themselves) keep suggesting we add even more weird rules

[meager flame]

instead of getting dunked on immediately by people with 30 years of experience

osrs doesn't do any of that

new players just get shit on

[scarlet dawn]

Yea, this.

[minor whale]

The biggest thing would be that pvm and pvp progression should be wholly separate and gear balanced accordingly

But you can't do that in a game where both coexist in the same area

[limber creek]

it wasn't for us. lol

[minor whale]

You go pvm with a vw and it works fine, suddenly you hit someone with it and it now has different stats and mechanics just wouldn't work

Or bp being 2t until you fight back and now it's 3t wouldn't work

[meager flame]

i mean this is what i think is the right thing to do after watching the same tragedy play out in every game that tries to mix them

[minor whale]

So there's really just not any solution that makes most people happy

[meager flame]

but theres always a new studio or dev somewhere that thinks they're going to solve the eternal problem of pve and pvp balancing coexisting

ready to fail and do it all again

[icy relic]

Also irons making up half the playerbase and not being able to benefit whatsoever from PKing other than for the lulz of it

It's just cooked

[minor whale]

Yeah that also just writes off half of the playerbase really from ever wanting pvp stuff added

[brisk hill]

Irons will be able to use ge soon so it’ll work out

[silk thicket]

Sure but it’s a process. You can’t expect to immediately be a demon at the highest skill expression content in the game

[meager flame]

they dont expect that

[silk thicket]

At least we have ways noobs can learn for free rn

Ye for sure I agree

[meager flame]

most games just allow those new people to fight each other

[minor whale]

You're not gonna get a vote on something when irons can only lose out on by doing, and if you try to force pvp changes through you get massive massive backlash

[meager flame]

instead of sending them to pound town

[silk thicket]

Plus there’s not much info out there on how to get started and what to prioritise

[icy relic]

Especially when you lose all your gear in the process

[minor whale]

Honestly shit like total level worlds working the opposite way would kinda fuck tbh

[silk thicket]

So people run around in mystics and die in 30 seconds

[minor whale]

Like a 750 total level world being solely for people under 750

Would incentivize noobs v noobs

[brisk hill]

Because no one on the Jagex staff other thank manked probably pk’d

[icy relic]

wildy is also not for fair fights these days

[minor whale]

You'd have smurfs too of course

[limber creek]

Does manked even pk anymore lol.

[brisk hill]

It never has been

Maybe idk

[limber creek]

He sure dont post.

[silk thicket]

PvP noobs and osrs noobs are both PvP noobs regardless of total level

[brisk hill]

How do you expect mods who have never done PvP try & make a tutorial for how to start

[scarlet dawn]

Never has been

[silk thicket]

Restricting based on total level just disincentivises skillers and pvmers from trying it

[brisk hill]

I mean this with resxpet

[obsidian venture]

Tbf

[brisk hill]

It’s just not logical though

[silk thicket]

I don’t tbf but I have helped a lot of ppl and try to provide info

Mostly info I got from ppl who are objectively very good

[obsidian venture]

Kieran hasn’t done the inferno but also made it. It still stands out as a impressive piece of content

[minor whale]

Wildy has never been fair but it currently feels pretty reasonable when you're attacked tbf
If I'm doing a wildy boss and I get a person on me I'm not annoyed by having to escape, the main annoyance comes that I'm going to survive 19/20 times and when I come back my world is gonna be taken by a level 104 who is 1 level lower than the threshold to attack by maxed main pkers

[limber creek]

level 750 total worlds would be great for the bots that have 1 everything and 99 range.

[meager flame]

ya a lot of them kind of dont do a lot of the stuff they design lol

[icy relic]

No amount of tutorials are going to solve the issue

[obsidian venture]

It’s very possible just needs a good sit down to cook something up

[silk thicket]

I think if we get info out there on a big scale it’ll help

[idle rapids]

Players can no longer train combat beyond level 3 on Tutorial Island by shooting seaborne NPCs added for Sailing.

Jagex hates fun

[meager flame]

and yeah tutorials aren't going to solve it

the problem is that they dont have a space to develop without just taking an insane beating 99% of the time

[limber creek]

I mean do you really need a tutorial to pray range against a bolt.

[obsidian venture]

I think them focusing on newer players this week was a good thing

[limber creek]

If you do should you really be pvping.

[meager flame]

it doesn't matter in a lot of games the same way because you just get put in like silver or whatever with other people who suck

[minor whale]

I don't think a tutorial as in "here's how to pk" is needed
But just "here's what's different about the wilderness" with all the one-off rules without needing to check the wiki

[meager flame]

and you learn over time

[brisk hill]

I see what you mean. I think it’s different though designing a piece of content & PvP progression

[icy relic]

Dunno why there is all this cope that if there is a massive pool of untapped PKers waiting to be activated by the right content

[minor whale]

Yeah there definitely isn't

[scarlet dawn]

I dont think a tutorial is needed, the ditch could have this, or the signs near the ditch in some way.

[meager flame]

i think if the game didn't work anything like it does the floor for a lot of people in pvp would probably rise

just because more people would learn and not feel like they're beating their head into a wall

[brisk hill]

Not new blood no. Old blood

Private servers prove that there’s a market for it

[small anvil]

Pking was the interesting end game content back when there was no content

[brisk hill]

I know that’s taboo to say

But it’s a fact nonetheless

[obsidian venture]

Yeah definitely but still doable to some degree. I just don’t think Jagex has put in the time and care needed to implement good changes though. This sadly leads to the knee jerk suggestions such as the last update

[meager flame]

i mean yeah thats how i started

[limber creek]

and now its still the end game content.

[small anvil]

Ehhh

[meager flame]

i had the items and killed the bosses and started pking in edge then i made pures and so on

[small anvil]

There's a lot more stuff to do in the pvm side

[meager flame]

its just like

the game isn't that way anymore

[limber creek]

What do you do when you're done? 😛

[icy relic]

Fwiw they still should roll back shit like pj timers and let people play however they want even if the behavior is "toxic" to jagex

[obsidian venture]

Clog

Pet hunt

[minor whale]

Pking was endgame when endgame was Barrows and there was nothing more interesting to do

[obsidian venture]

Speeds

[brisk hill]

Idk man 550’s are cool when you’re learning them

That’s it rly

[small anvil]

It takes forever to be done enough to go back to pking

[minor whale]

There's a LOT more content people pot nowadays that pking takes a backseat to because people cba

[restive storm]

Currently there isn’t, multi is the only real option at the moment. Singles is essentially cooked

[limber creek]

Oh arbitrary making menu green is cooler than pvp my bad.

[restive storm]

Too many giga sweats that can’t die impossible to get into

[obsidian venture]

Yeah to some

[icy relic]

Raids are ass

[obsidian venture]

Because it’s progress

[minor whale]

Yeah making menu green is more attractive than pvp because the game has shifted what it is

[brisk hill]

Lots of old pkers would return. Not saying we’d be back to the glory days becuase things like Covid made 2020 etc more interesting than necessary

[restive storm]

It still is the endgame tho

[small anvil]

I do think it's a bit cope that pkers think that if only things were fixed in x way the wildy would be revitalized

[restive storm]

RT

[obsidian venture]

Endgame is making an iron now 😭

[limber creek]

thats beginner game brother. whole game based around em.

[restive storm]

Honestly that’s not endgame, irons so easy now you can make a 2k iron in like two months

Uim even is kinda dumbed down now

[brisk hill]

I promise it’s not. Private servers will always argue against you

[icy relic]

PKing community was always built organically and jagex's attempts to put the thumb on the scale have clearly killed the fun of it

[minor whale]

It's no longer just "have fun doing shit with no benefit"
People look for the next progression to tick off and most don't see pvp as in that progression at all

[obsidian venture]

Yeah that’s usually what folks at endgame do now or they just pick up a different game over PvP

[meager flame]

i think its more than that like

[brisk hill]

There IS a market for osrs PvP

[minor whale]

Like pking was huge when there was absolutely jack shit to do in game otherwise

[small anvil]

Private servers means it's like no risk right?

[obsidian venture]

Pvp is just too far pushed back for some to get into sadly

[meager flame]

back when i first started it was a lot more fun and a lot more popular for a lot of reasons but the main one

[restive storm]

It was still big in 2019 -2020

[brisk hill]

Most are p2w

[meager flame]

was just that nobody knew what they were doing

[small anvil]

Wildy is a negative expected value proposition

[upper lichen]

someone already replied but yeah, its simply not possible to nh in bounty hunter, and perma dmm mechanics are so different from the regular game

this is like saying cardio and weightlifting are the same because both are exercise

[obsidian venture]

People would rather restart accounts than PvP

[icy relic]

There were also no moneymakers back then

[meager flame]

so the playing field of just getting into it and being able to have fun in the first place

was much lower

[icy relic]

PvP was just such a natural thing to do

[obsidian venture]

Ye

[icy relic]

It was low risk and you got good dopamine hits

[limber creek]

Thinking everyone is a giga just shows how far off base some of us are.

[minor whale]

Yup
It's only endgame for the very few people who want to subject themselves to it, most people who run out of content simply don't find it enjoyable to even begin getting into
It's why a shitload of cloggers leave lms until they're scratching the barrel for their next clogs

[meager flame]

i dont think everyone is giga but i think people underestimate how much better we all are at playing this game

[small anvil]

Pvp was a way to spend your money in a way lol

[meager flame]

than people who have never played are

[minor whale]

Some people have maxed 4 account types instead of starting their pvp journey because it's just a wholly different game to them

[brisk hill]

I think you guys have it in your head that PvP is about money

[icy relic]

I did a lot of F2P warring in college

[obsidian venture]

Nope

[meager flame]

like i dont even know how to describe how bad people were in say 2004

compared to 2024

[limber creek]

Thats why you need to level up your account before you come pvp.
Pvping on a level 3 is not the same as a 126.

[obsidian venture]

But a lot of folks playing only like to see number go up and not down

[minor whale]

I pk solely when I feel like dicking around and having some fun, knowing I could be making WAY more money anywhere else in the game

[obsidian venture]

Even if it’s 50k

[icy relic]

Just lose like 20 rune sets a war

[small anvil]

Pvp is what you do when you stop caring about money lol

[limber creek]

careful you're gonna get called dumb lol

[small anvil]

It takes wayyyyy longer to get there

[obsidian venture]

People just scared of planking

[small anvil]

Nowadays

[brisk hill]

Imagine pking for profit lol

[obsidian venture]

And losing gp

[limber creek]

White dots to red dots isn't hard to understand 😄

[brisk hill]

YouTuber mentality lol

[meager flame]

i mean it sort of is about money but not completely

[small anvil]

(isn't that what squintz does)

[obsidian venture]

I mean it doesn’t help that’s what popular pvp YouTubers do

[meager flame]

not even saying you're pking for profit more like

[limber creek]

Squintz pk's for glory.

[obsidian venture]

And feed into that

[brisk hill]

He’s at the endgame, he’s earned it

[meager flame]

theres a limit to what you'll risk

[icy relic]

A lot of it is about money but money fights look very different

[meager flame]

theres a reason people dont want to die

and so on

[brisk hill]

But I don’t think that’s the only reason he does it

[scarlet dawn]

These are the pkers pking pvmers

[minor whale]

Exactly
Unless you're very very good, you're going to lose money unless you're farming bots, and that's not enjoyable content for most people

[meager flame]

and a lot of it comes down to gp

[icy relic]

Like dharok dice rolling in BH

A lot of it is just finding someone to handshake that you're fighting to the death

[meager flame]

theres also just a "new" era of gaming which isn't really new at all

but its not like the old old era where people expect like

progression and reasons to do things

and just fun isn't enough anymore

[brisk hill]

I think he’s said it himself too

[obsidian venture]

I pk for fun and with the boys if free but majority of folks wouldn’t because they’re hyper focused on the gp worth.

How do you make it appealing for them to not worry about it is definitely a question to ask

[brisk hill]

The money is just extra

[limber creek]

If fun isn't enough for you i'd stop playing video games honestly. maybe get a job.

[minor whale]

People find fun in different things

[meager flame]

thats how a lot of gamers are today

[obsidian venture]

Yeah that’s why people do what’s fun and pking for the most part isn’t a part of that

[brisk hill]

Rewards needs to be worth the risk

[meager flame]

people play games to feel a sense of progression like they're doing something

[minor whale]

Immediate vs long term fun is a thing people weigh when doing a lot of content

[meager flame]

because they dont irl

[obsidian venture]

Hence why yall are in a minority currently

[meager flame]

thats why battle passes work

[small anvil]

Osrs is the endless progression game

People don't like going backwards

[minor whale]

Sense of progression is fun in games even if the exact moment isn't particularly fun from one second to the next

When I get xp it's permanent

[limber creek]

When i pk someone its permanent.

[small anvil]

Pvp is a side track that loses progress on average

[minor whale]

When I get gp it's going towards upgrades or other shit to make number go up and is also permanent

But pking for most people doesn't have any of that

[brisk hill]

Man I’m in enemy territory rn

[meager flame]

and like idk i dont really understand them completely maybe bc im just too old lol but back in my day we would get a game and just play the same 6 maps for like

3 years straight

[small anvil]

There's a reason pvp is less popular and that's cuz the game is being designed to cater towards diff types

[brisk hill]

I play this game to pk only

[meager flame]

wouldn't level up or unlock anything

and it was fun

just playing to play

[obsidian venture]

And that’s fine

[meager flame]

thats unheard of now

[brisk hill]

I grind my accs to 2350 so I can pk noobs hiding

[small anvil]

Yeah, and your type is dying out lol

[obsidian venture]

But sadly it’s something Jagex will look over when proposing stuff (this shouldn’t be the case)

[brisk hill]

Only becuase we don’t get meaningful updates yes

[small anvil]

But trying to say that people just need their eyes opened kinda just glosses over why pking is declining in popularity

[meager flame]

tbf games like osrs are the direct counter to that style of thinking in general

[small anvil]

Outside of lack of dev attention

[brisk hill]

Last proposed wilderness update: a week ago regarding multi teleports

[meager flame]

osrs is built to have people chasing progression

[limber creek]

I do pvm and pvp. I like the skill cap of pvp above anything else.

[meager flame]

not having fun

[scarlet dawn]

Pkers are paying other pkers GP to leak their clan's location 😄

[small anvil]

(there's also way more games that have pvp that attract the types that wanna pvp)

[meager flame]

which sounds insane but its true

think of all of the awful shit we do in this game to do something we do think is fun

[small anvil]

That didn't exist back when RuneScape pking was huge

[brisk hill]

Call of duty didn’t exist you’re right

[limber creek]

"What is counter strike"

[meager flame]

nah almost every pvp game we play today

[icy relic]

not gonna defend jagex too much because they can't even do basic math on crystal extractor but whenever jagex does add wildy content it just ruins things more

[meager flame]

existed when osrs pking was big

[brisk hill]

That’s what I was doing during the golden age of clanning ngl

[meager flame]

especially the esports games lol

[small anvil]

I meant pre old school

[meager flame]

me too

[small anvil]

Original RuneScape

[icy relic]

expecting them to save pvp via content is just a pipe dream

[meager flame]

people been on cod/halo/bf/cs/league etc since before 2010

[limber creek]

Oh so like starcraft days?

[small anvil]

Cod online started when

League of Legends wasn't around then for example

[icy relic]

dota was

[oblique mesa]

Brother its okay to admit when you are wrong

[brisk hill]

True but we shouldn’t take away from the fact that the basic formula for a healthy wilderness WAS in FACT SOLVED

[small anvil]

Or any of the variety of newer shooters

[meager flame]

league is 2009 iirc

[oblique mesa]

No one will hurt you it is the internet

[meager flame]

cod was probably cod 3?

[small anvil]

I'm talking like the 07 days

[meager flame]

cod 2 actually

so 2005

halo 2 was 2004

[icy relic]

of course, I agree with that

[meager flame]

cs since the 90s

[small anvil]

Like I'm just saying more options exist and are designed for that type of play specifically

[oblique mesa]

Oh so warcraft 3 custom games that were popular since 2002?

[limber creek]

The first cod had online multiplayer btw from 2003 😄

[meager flame]

cs is actually older than osrs

[icy relic]

the issue is you can't even get any content in the wildy these days unless jagex decides to just cram everything in as a integrity change

[limber creek]

But pvp games dont exist you right

[minor whale]

Internet is a bigger place with more free ways to do what you enjoy than ever before
The base of OSRS is fairly unique but the 'pvp aspect' can be found in other games that don't have bad graphics/weird mechanics/extreme grinds

[icy relic]

which is, well...

[small anvil]

RuneScape was kinda a social gathering phenomenon earlier on

[meager flame]

yeah but like the first cod multiplayer online was pretty bad

[small anvil]

But many people moved on

[meager flame]

it would be like saying we used to tunnel xbc for halo ce and it was the first online game in the series

[small anvil]

Games designed around a different core audience

[meager flame]

maybe not that extreme but

[obsidian venture]

Idt it’ll ever return to the activity it was pvp wise

[small anvil]

In the modern day

[limber creek]

What if they made a seperate rev caves for ironmen only. Would the ironmen vote yes to that?

[obsidian venture]

Ofc

[icy relic]

probably not

[meager flame]

probably but it would be a shit update

[oblique mesa]

Yes but people would get mad like when you PK during leagues

[limber creek]

Leveling an iron to pk you right now.

[icy relic]

revs should not even exist

[meager flame]

what if we created rev caves but now its even more op so you get loot for even less effort

woo

[brisk hill]

My favorite

[limber creek]

i need to know what to look forward to so i can prepare.
My job is to make your day worse. And i take my job seriously.

[icy relic]

it's just stupid how hard it is to get some resources and then vetion shits them out like it's nothing

[oblique mesa]

People losing their minds at getting teleblocked outside of KBD was the best part of the last league

[small anvil]

(and you're surprised people don't want updates you like lol)

[limber creek]

what if we released rev caves and you get paid 10k for every minute you stay there.

[icy relic]

feels like private server shit

[brisk hill]

100 noted secondaries POG

[meager flame]

i just think the wilderness reward design is at odds with the rest of the game's balancing

thats what the real issue is

and it has to be that way because if it wasn't

nobody would participate

[icy relic]

wildy pvm content doesn't even feel like it's balanced to exist in the same universe as the rest of the drop tables

[limber creek]

nah ive just leveled with the people that will cry no matter what happens.

[icy relic]

makes no sense, just delete that shit

[brisk hill]

It doesn’t! Singles versions of the wbr are a joke

You’re there for pet or unique

[icy relic]

it's impossible to die in singles

[brisk hill]

Otherwise why go

[sacred oracle]

what is a wbr?

[limber creek]

To pk 1t teleporting bots brother.

[brisk hill]

Wildy boss rework

[small anvil]

Never would have guessed that was what it stood for lol

[brisk hill]

PvPers shortened it I think

But yeah if someone says wbr especially when talking about PvP/wildy

It’s the boss rework

[minor whale]

People who check loot key value frequently, does it change when the value of what you pked changes (like if you pked a vw at 120m it'd say you pked 120m, but then 2 months later it's down to 70m would it say 70m or 120m?)

[brisk hill]

It’s the value of the item

[minor whale]

Like current value

[brisk hill]

Rn vw is like 38m so you’d get a 38m key

[minor whale]

Nah I mean like

Hmm how do I explain this better

[obsidian venture]

You talking about total

Like if that changes

[limber creek]

Your loot tracker on side of screen? Or the total tracker at ferox?

[brisk hill]

It’s the ge price at the time of pking it

[minor whale]

I pk a voidwaker 2 months ago and my total loot says 120m at Ferox by Skully

[brisk hill]

Ohhhh

[minor whale]

And then 2 months later I check it

Would it say current value or when I pked it value on the chest

[brisk hill]

Yeah it wouldn’t go down, I think it totals it based on the amount at the time

& just keeps adding

[minor whale]

Ah kk

[brisk hill]

I haven’t seen mine go down l0l

& vw has dropped over 100m

[minor whale]

I know the loot tracker one changes like crazy all the time

[limber creek]

it doesn't redo calculations. its simply additive.

loot tracker does update to current price daily yes.

[minor whale]

Wasn't sure if it was keeping a running tally of what you pked and just changed based on that

[brisk hill]

My favorite is the amount destroyed

That shit gonna add up eventually

Fuck a 15k key though

[minor whale]

I have never destroyed anything my bank is ashambles

I've got so many random bolts

[brisk hill]

Have you ever… tried to bolt naked men at altar…?

I know a sick money making guide …

[limber creek]

loot destroyed only tracks keys you destroy not items you use incinerator on i dont believe.

[brisk hill]

Yerp

Fk a 12k key

[limber creek]

rather have the food for next fight

[minor whale]

I am going to gobble up your 12k key and deposit it in my bank to be lost to the ether

[brisk hill]

Can I have some

[limber creek]

i wish it tracked pre keys when i was more active lol. but it is what it is

[minor whale]

I even deposited a bank key once that was 27 slots of banana curry + a full looting bag also full of banana curry

[brisk hill]

You’re a monster

[minor whale]

The banana curry remains in my bank

[brisk hill]

Exilent had dope stats but idk if I’m allowed to say that

It is a legal client as of today but

[limber creek]

never used none of that. Runelite and osbuddy lol

[brisk hill]

Gz PvPcord we have taken over once again time to shine

Make revs multi & add a delay to teleporting out. Also please consult pvpers who don’t rely on streaming when making updates

👍

[vivid ruin]

Im enjoying the fact that this topic is getting more attention

[restive storm]

Pvpcord is so back, bring back multi revs, nuke pj timer, gimme my -50xp lamps, don’t add a teleporting delay on restock, pls stop listening to streamers on everything pvpwise

[brisk hill]

We are here to stay!

Free the wild!

[tough nacelle]

Anything but revs

[brisk hill]

Hey it doesn’t have to be revs but the formula was figured out

That whole are was POPPIN becuase of those caves

[vivid ruin]

• reduce the worlds where wildy is open, expand the wildy map, add more building structure, add singles ++ between multi and singles. Maybe im a minority

[brisk hill]

He’s talking PvP so I like him

[limber creek]

They can call the new monster stnanever's for all i care. We just want a good piece of multi content above 30 wilderness so its not just autobots teleporting out on a single tick when their cheating plugins yell at them lol.

[tough nacelle]

I just don’t love zombie pirate style content which is why I dislike revs

But yeah

I think multi content above 30 is good and fun

[limber creek]

I don't care if i get maced just let me go have engagement lol.

[brisk hill]

Zombie pirates are super ass for pvmer & pker. Why are you ALWAYS in combat? Why is it 7 wild?

[tough nacelle]

Ancients is way more fun than standard spell book

[tough nacelle]

Why is it like 3m an hour for basically no requirements

[vivid ruin]

Mods pin these comments

[tough nacelle]

( the diary is too low)

[brisk hill]

🤖

No Jed how do we have content like this

[tough nacelle]

Zombie pirates are worse than revs in every way lol

[brisk hill]

[tough nacelle]

I’m shocked there wasn’t an uproar

[brisk hill]

Well the PvP scene wasn’t gonna complain that’s for sure

[tough nacelle]

Also wtf is the teleport scroll doing on their drop table

[brisk hill]

First thing added to wildy in years

[tough nacelle]

The only thing I like about them is that they teleblock

So you can use ancients

[brisk hill]

And idk if you’ve noticed but we are kind of the “ooonga boonga” crowd

[limber creek]

looks like plenty of moneymakers above 3m an hour buddy

[brisk hill]

That was the only wise choice they made with its location

[tough nacelle]

Do you see the requirements

[limber creek]

Put larrans key in inventory and click chest isnt a lot

[tough nacelle]

That’s with 99 fishing my guy

In deep wildy

[limber creek]

99 fishing has nothing to do with larrans keys

[tough nacelle]

It does?

[limber creek]

for a bit of profit from extra fish lol

my bad

[tough nacelle]

Either way I want PvP updates but I want them not to be zombie pirates 2.0

I kinda was excited with the idea of wrathmaw but with some tweaks

Seemed fun

[limber creek]

Rotmaw lol

[brisk hill]

I think breaches / warbands (rs3) have potential

[tough nacelle]

Whatever its name was

[brisk hill]

[brisk hill]

But these also have huge monetary incentives

[restive storm]

Don’t forget charging glories

[brisk hill]

Lucrative!

[restive storm]

Riveting content

[icy relic]

warbands immediately got turned into co-op content

[brisk hill]

Healthy for a MMO!

Better than single player mode imo

[icy relic]

I don't think warbands was particularly healthy

just saying that any time they make wildy content lucrative it either gets botted or cheesed so that pkers don't actually get the bulk of the benefit out of it

[brisk hill]

I don’t disagree, but what’s an example

[icy relic]

but warbands is still infinitely better than zombie pirates and 30x alch I guess

at least it's content with effort

[restive storm]

I just pray they stop trying to come up with whacky ideas and just go back to doing stuff that worked in the first place

[true talon]

Main issue with pvp is there is not enough of them out there. even if they add tons of bait like pvm there is still very few actual pkers. and there is more worlds than ever.

[brisk hill]

Reduce worlds wildy is accessible & design updates with PvP in mind & you’d see old blood return

[true talon]

Basically right now the bait is bots doing pvm that little nooby pkers go kill, however the bots are so advanced now they are basically unkillable. and more people just dont bother engaging with them. not to mention the bots spam report you.

[true talon]

no you wont, youll have people competing for resources, clans locking down hotspots and running extortion rings......

[brisk hill]

You’ve already mentioned it’s mainly bots. You’d just have bots stacking up all over the place. Also, do you think clans have the same they did during COVID?

The same time*

Gp is also .60 cheaper than it was

[true talon]

IF you bring back the RS cartels from multi-revs clans will grow to exort that, because it was insanely profitable

JAgex knows this, thats why the wildy bosses was designed the way they are, so you cant lock it down.

[brisk hill]

Wildy bosses are designed so you can lock it down

Multi at least

[true talon]

no it isnt lol

[brisk hill]

How not? All of the bosses give resources to extend your trip

Is that by accident or design?

Vetion you literally take 0 damage from

[true talon]

what? thats not locking it down.....

[brisk hill]

I think the fact is that multi could be held down but clans don’t have the time nor resources to do so

It wouldn’t be hard for a clan to camp Callisto

[true talon]

ya because its not worth doing

no1 is paying for protection at wildy bosses, because they dont have to.

its not possible for a clan to lock down the caves and prevent everyone from entering.

[brisk hill]

It wasn’t possible to do that at revs either

[true talon]

yea it was lol, they locked down all non + worlds and had lots of people farming on every world protected by clans, mostly the total lvl worlds.

[brisk hill]

From an anti pk perspective alone I think it is

[brisk hill]

All? Every single one?

I remember the caves fella. At the end there was a giant civil war going on

Maybe that’s what you’re thinking about (an entire country fighting for their livelihood)

[true talon]

Ya venezuleans paying to be protected, rose up agaisnt the rot opressors and took the teritory lol.

[brisk hill]

Some skewed history but we won’t attempt to correct it

[true talon]

You want real pvp go to BH crater, add a hybrid crater, have people fight int here with overheads tbs ect.

[brisk hill]

I don’t even think you’d see the Venny’s return to the same levels becuase a) their oppressor has been removed irl & b) gold is a fraction of the price

Add a cost to enter caves & boom

[brisk hill]

Spec dumping is sick! Totally the same vibe as air blasting at varrock ditch

[true talon]

Have a multi-cave

i agree BH spec dumping is beyond stupid

[brisk hill]

Then don’t suggest it saying it’s a good replacement for wilderness l0l

[true talon]

because it is, but it can be changed. its not an all in nothing. you get brid crater with spec dumping ect.

allowing TB's briding an overheads removes spec dumping

[silk thicket]

variety is part of what makes wildy great

Bh would just be spec tab land

[brisk hill]

It’s not :c it’s manufactured you stand there while I take a shot & I’ll stand here while you take a shot

[true talon]

not with tbs it wouldnt

[brisk hill]

I’d just keep the idea that you can’t teleport out of the tribrid bh

[haughty void]

Why weren't Gryphon CA's out like a month ago?

[vivid ruin]

Has sailing even been out that long

[dawn jackal]

a) who cares b) it's explained in the blog

[true talon]

they forgot thats actual content

[haughty void]

I care I've been sitting on a task for 2 weeks waiting for CA's

[brisk hill]

Praying for you

[silk thicket]

Eh I like wildy as is cuz u can ancients deep wild and standards below 30

[vivid ruin]

Theyre pretty common id just do it and move on

[silk thicket]

Plus u play differently based on location

[tacit wharf]

ngl, with a name like that, id put it off for a few more weeks, making us look at that font

[silk thicket]

I don’t think that can be replicated in bh

[brisk hill]

It can’t imo

Manufactured PvP

[haughty void]

ok lol

[brisk hill]

No thrill of hopping into a world

[silk thicket]

Altho ppl used to brid outside ferox right? Maybe it could bring that back

[brisk hill]

In 1 world

[silk thicket]

Ye

But like edge style bridding is gone atm

U could maybeeee bring that back

With bh

Idk though

[brisk hill]

Yeah a tribrid bh would encourage it

But it would also take from the wild

Any mini game or w/e we get that’s PvP just removes ppl from the wild

So it’s a double edged sword imo

[silk thicket]

Tru but maybe it brings some ppl back to 07

That can only get that type of gameplay elsewhere

Idk

[brisk hill]

Yeah true

PvP updates in general would just help the overall state of the wilderness

[limber creek]

Gotta send a mod mail to get lost in the ether instead of a chat mod giving us a chatroom.

But there sure are fashionscape channels

Oh 7 mobile channels

[dawn jackal]

not saying there shouldn't be a pvp channel but i imagine it very shortly devolves into a salt factory

[limber creek]

oh there it is. Irl-pets

[brisk hill]

I think the same approach they had in the actual PvP cord would be helpful. Limit who all can interact

Even in this discord some ppl from the clan scene have tried to ego each other & that shit is just weird when trying to make changes

[dawn jackal]

sure, there's a lotta good options but that's not really ideal for a very public discord like this

[scarlet dawn]

No right, I think we've been pretty civil in here

[dawn jackal]

i agree

[brisk hill]

Bad apples smh

[dawn jackal]

i think there should be a way for jagex to communicate with people who engage with the wildy that isn't "just message a mod directly and pray"

[limber creek]

Every now and again turning away a reddit timmie is gonna have to happen. But i think we've been cool.

[dawn jackal]

not a very controversial opinion

[silk thicket]

I did almost crash out at that one guy tbf but apart from that everyone been chill

[brisk hill]

The fella who got smited once & wanted to change how multi worked made me take a walk I won’t lie

[dawn jackal]

not that this is surprising but it's been fun to see how many people who don't pvp or probably pvp'd less than 10 times in their life have very strong opinions on what is good for the wildy

[silk thicket]

PvP channel would be great (just remove access if ppl ego) but idm this for now bcos visibility

[limber creek]

Better than a bunch of parrots suckling the teets of tos imo.

[brisk hill]

It is very interesting! It’s also been interesting that with logic pvpers have been able to sway those

[idle rapids]

PvP channel but everyone is allowed to delete each others messages

Its pvp after all

[silk thicket]

Delete this

[limber creek]

Only if you outplay their message.

[scarlet dawn]

Finally an update to something related to pvp Ill vote yes wait what!?

[brisk hill]

We have people who don’t PvP agreeing (for the most part) that the wilderness is accessible in way too many worlds & that’s a start

[limber creek]

Only 1000 more oh no they're gonna take my spade comments to wade through until we make positive change.

[icy relic]

I mean the PvP community has had a dedicated discord

[limber creek]

One day theyll realize it was never about the spade all along.

[icy relic]

Jagex just didn't do any of it

[brisk hill]

Missing active goblin

[limber creek]

Jagex also gatekept contributors.

[icy relic]

And every time they try to do something like wrathmaw it just ends up being a nonstarter

[limber creek]

Fix hop timer for pvp!

Leave it for ironmen I do not care.
But fix it for pvpers ffs

[silk thicket]

IMO the core of it is that pkers want to fight pkers they don’t really care about bosses spawning and stuff

[tacit wharf]

only if u have a 10 sec wait timer between worlds

[limber creek]

we want to fight anything. But very close.

[limber creek]

Nope.

[silk thicket]

Anything but preferably another pker

[dawn jackal]

it's definitely a thinker to try and figure out why the 2 minute teleport timer was even brought forth in the first place

[silk thicket]

Will hit pvmer if it’s quiet

But boring

I think I’m all in on restricting wildy to some worlds. Ironmen are gonna worry about finding worlds for revs/callisto etc, but the number of bots is gna increase with the number of worlds anyway

If the wildy is restricted to 100 worlds there’s no profit in running 300 bots

[icy relic]

You should have to fight over worlds anyway

[silk thicket]

So it wouldn’t happen

[brisk hill]

Bingo!

[dawn jackal]

maybe i don't have all information but it seems like no one asked for this, but they had to be trying to solve a problem for someone? or maybe it's as simple as they just thought this was an issue and didn't check with anyone idk

[brisk hill]

And imagine with their anti pk they just tele majority of the time

[silk thicket]

Also this! Go kick the person off ur spot

[icy relic]

I originally thought that was the point of wildy bosses, competition for resources

[silk thicket]

Ya they leave if someone enters the cave lmao so it’d just be bots running to 30 line and entering cave again

[dawn jackal]

that's a good point for wildy content you have a mechanism to fight for the resource lol

[silk thicket]

Like a conveyer belt

[brisk hill]

Their reasoning was to make multi wars more decisive and fair. No multi clan ever has asked for that ever. We have always decided. It was likely a streamer who suggested it

[icy relic]

But nope it's just scout outside and braindead money printer

[silk thicket]

Pointless for goldfarmers so there would be less bots and less gp coming in

[brisk hill]

How am I gonna do it at max efficiency if I have to skull!!!!

UGH!!!!!

[dawn jackal]

yea, i read the blog. i guess i worded that thought poorly. i was more wondering who was asking for multi fights to be more decisive. from the info ive gathered in here (my only exposure to pvp) no one actually cares or wants multi fights to be decided

[icy relic]

My duo did 25k revs and only died 3 times

[dawn jackal]

how did jagex decide it was an issue that multi fights are not decisive

that's the correct question i have

[icy relic]

Returning has always been a part of warring

[brisk hill]

Yep. If clans are really upset they’ll just fight for days until someone leaves. I am unsure what damage this causes the game

[dawn jackal]

like do they have further plans for wildy content that endless fights interrupts? or did they just hear from one person this was an issue and went and solutioned it?

[hard axle]

I'd rather they kill sapphire bolts and mace specs than make everything singles

[dawn jackal]

just confusing

[brisk hill]

There’s a saying in clanning “sometimes win never lose” meaning essentially even a loss is a win in the clan world. But this mentality is a meme & the clans that spout it never survive

[hard axle]

or fix dspear because that's literally why u can stack so many specs

[silk thicket]

Or drink restore

[icy relic]

I mean based on the amount of content that comes off reddit 1:1

[scarlet dawn]

I think they were aware in some way (ppl mail tipoff with whatever they witness) in hope the situation to be revamped. However I think the streamer situation pulled the trigger.

[silk thicket]

Ez

[brisk hill]

They tried to say that if a multi update came in the future they didn’t want it ruined by naked raggers

That was a pm manked sent

[dawn jackal]

that by itself isn't unreasonable i think

[hard axle]

99% of people don't have ideas on how to actually change something to be fair, just whatever buffs them to an extreme

[brisk hill]

It’s not but there’s a better way to mitigate it

Charge x amt of gp to do content

Make it impossible to enter if naked

[silk thicket]

So there’s multi content on the roadmap ?

[brisk hill]

Better ways than limiting teles idk

[brisk hill]

No that’s why it’s so confusing

LOL

Like out of the blue

[scarlet dawn]

Another boss?! 🙏

[dawn jackal]

well acting like any company is a perfect machine of checks and balances is misguided to begin with

[brisk hill]

I mean everyone always surmised that multi revs if it came back would be locked behind sailing

[icy relic]

I dunno, I see the complete opposite

[brisk hill]

If that was true I doubt Jagex would announce it tbh

[dawn jackal]

i can't really fault jagex if they were having brainstorming about new content ideas, realized that there were issues with raggers, and then hastily made a solution

that shit happens all the time at every fortune X company

[icy relic]

People are so desperate to prove that they hate powercrept that they pitch dogshit content that you have to jump through hoops to get only for it to be worthless

The entire sailing skill, for example

[brisk hill]

Yeah true. I just wonder what they genuinely thought the feeedback from PvP was gonna be

“Omg wow thanks!”

I don’t think so

[icy relic]

Anti bleed bandages taking an extra step to make, forcing you to grab cotton as well instead of drinking a potion

[dawn jackal]

i'm sure they thought it was a good implementation

[icy relic]

For a completely useless item

[dawn jackal]

it's also nice they someone heard feedback and put a can in it for now

NOT nice that they don't have any communication for the pvp community

[icy relic]

"But it's 80 HP in one inv slot if you onetick it after getting hit by vard axes"

[dawn jackal]

but its cool they have enough humility at times to not implement things

[brisk hill]

Yep. Must’ve been loads of pm’s

Unless they actually read this chat & felt bad for the 4 of us (highly unlikely lol)

[dawn jackal]

it's kinda a really odd way to get feedback

skilling i'm convinced they just ask he box and maybe thurco

[floral blaze]

Multi revs back plz

[brisk hill]

It is refreshing to see that the rest of the game experiences broken changes that don’t get reverted / fixed for a bit

[silk thicket]

Yama contract hotfix was sad

[icy relic]

It's ok I blew 1k slayer points for strykewyrms/frost dragons only to discover that on task rates weren't applying

And smoke devils weren't aggroing even with cannon, which they fixed today

[silk thicket]

Like 5h of smiting ppl for 6m gp before hotfix D:

[icy relic]

Lots of really stupid bugs lately

[dawn jackal]

bugs will happen to some extent

[hard axle]

yup.

provides detailed explanation as to why sailing inherently won't have use after maxing or if it does, people will hate it and demand workarounds to sailing

"you're just hating on sailing"

like mfer do u enjoy walking city to city or do you prefer teleporting

[dawn jackal]

it'll be used as a key to unlock content in the future (and current) and that's fine

idk

[hard axle]

redditors argue for the sake of arguing

[dawn jackal]

what did you expect

[hard axle]

I didn't want sailing as a skill

[dawn jackal]

valid viewpoint

[hard axle]

I wanted ranching

[icy relic]

If you make a new skill you have to be okay with some powercreep

[dawn jackal]

i didn't either

[hard axle]

let me raise some animals

and call it farming 2.0

[icy relic]

If you are not okay with that don't make a new skill

[dawn jackal]

but once it is a skill you can't expect it to be that much

[brisk hill]

I’m 99 so idc anymore tbh

[hard axle]

I still maintain that ranching would've been amazing as a skill

cuz a lot of monster and animal byproducts are pvm-only atm

dragon arrowtips specifically

[dawn jackal]

just hope it has an engaging and balanced training method and that it doesn't infect too much of the rest of the game

[icy relic]

RS3 PoP is a better sailing skill than sailing

[hard axle]

imagine if you raised a dragon and it periodically pissed out dragon nails that you could use to make into javelin heads or arrowtips

[icy relic]

RS3 has this and it is amazing

[dawn jackal]

more daily content great

[hard axle]

an interactive throne of misc

[dawn jackal]

i don't need knock off animal crossing

[hard axle]

i want knock off animal crossing

[dawn jackal]

alas

[frail bough]

If this isn't manipulation for certain people to agree with you, i dont know what is!

[hard axle]

[ember token]

you dont farm or raise animals in animal crossing

[dawn jackal]

getting off topic here

[hard axle]

but yeah like, I played a lot of games similar to this concept

sailing as a skill offers no value besides level gates

people hated that about slayer

and that's with 15% dmg

[brisk hill]

It’s working & I’m here for it

[dawn jackal]

i'm all about this peaceful takeover of the game update channel

[hard axle]

going back to wildy changes

[dawn jackal]

emergent gameplay

[brisk hill]

PvPcord

[hard axle]

same issue at hand - people don't think ahead and the people that do think ahead get buried by dumbasses

[vivid ruin]

Fm, wc, fletch, craft, theiving, all useless

[icy relic]

I wonder if the situation with sailing is like that famous Jagex quote about MTX

[oblique mesa]

To tie it together Rogues Chest masses are pretty fun 😎

[icy relic]

"90% of players engage with treasure hunter which means they love it!"

Like yeah people are playing it because it's a new skill...

Doesn't mean it's good

[hard axle]

they all potentially have use like firemaking to build or unlock new weapons, wc to get rare resources after a boss kill, fletch/craft high end great, thieving can't defend

[round lintel]

thieving isnt useless, maybe is not the best money maker but early game without GE is really good for gp aka Ironman

[hard axle]

sailing is just unlock this island, sail to it (if there's no tp)

and they literally added a way to completely skip sailing

[brisk hill]

Thieving is cool in a fantasy game

[hard axle]

by tping to ur boat

[silk thicket]

Warding was cool

[brisk hill]

You know what else was cool?

[round lintel]

some chests give some usefull stuff

[brisk hill]

Multi revs

[silk thicket]

Bizarre we can make non magical armour in a fantasy game

[dawn jackal]

red x'ing the guards in the docks and doing theivecrafting is a stupid meta

[hard axle]

hate to say it, but warding would've been better lmao

[brisk hill]

[silk thicket]

But not magical armour

[vivid ruin]

I feel like they'll add more to sailing as time passes

[icy relic]

It costs more to unlock ONE teleport to boat than the entirety of the portal nexus

[dawn jackal]

bring back pyramid plunder

[brisk hill]

I think this time next year ppl prolly won’t be doing the method I did to get 99

[narrow folio]

Shamanism wouldve added more combat depth that we would use outside of just...training the skill

[brisk hill]

Just afk salvage

Maybe I’m wrong

[icy relic]

Imagine if you couldn't use portal chamber unless you did a 1/500 grind or paid mils to unlock each portal

[round lintel]

I mean i hate the bottled storm

[hasty shard]

my issue with warding is that it really shouldve just been an rc expansion

[brisk hill]

Yeah but it’s this only becuase it’s new?

[icy relic]

I just want people to see that instead of MTX, we are getting engagement farmed for the private equity companies

[round lintel]

should have not been a thing and if it was, more accesible

[brisk hill]

Few years from now it’ll be cheap innit

[icy relic]

Complete time waste

[silk thicket]

Why

[vivid ruin]

Yeah warding lame nty

[silk thicket]

Crafting armour is different to doing magicy thingy to a stone

[hasty shard]

because it is the magic crafting skill

[round lintel]

lemme get my tamagotchi

[hasty shard]

and everythings been coopted into rc anyways

[round lintel]

nah i voted no on it

[hasty shard]

treads/bloodbark etc

[silk thicket]

But crafting as a ranged expansion

Would be weird

[hasty shard]

[[black d'hide body]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Black_d'hide_body

[silk thicket]

Yeah bloodbark is just cuz no warding it’s kinda bizarre

Yeah

Delete crafting ranged armour

Add it to ranged skill

Doesn’t make sense imo bcos sewing and archery are vastly different

[minor whale]

Shamanism sucked, buffing existing armor with random shit like proposed would have lead to either the worst blanket power creep ever or been so useless that it was pointless

It was always by far the most "risky" option

[hasty shard]

yeah i do not want the game to turn into korean mmo shite

[narrow folio]

More useful than what sailing does

And they would've been careful with the features obviously

[minor whale]

Useful doesn't mean good for the game
Shamanism could have been actually a net negative by adding in the worst part of rs3 invention

[brisk hill]

Tbow spawn careful or crystal extractor nuke careful

[silk thicket]

sailing is in the game and we got a new skill lets add warding too?

[narrow folio]

Anything could have been a net negative

That's why it takes a long time to refine

[minor whale]

Sailing was the safe choice
At the very worst it changes nothing about your life if you don't care about doing it

[dawn jackal]

why can't i said down the lava river and take pot shots at people

that seems like fun gameplay

[minor whale]

And if you enjoy it then it's content to do

[brisk hill]

For now!

Surely they will add main game progression quests to sailorman

[carmine junco]

Surely if sailing had added a bunch of Bis items and methods off rip people would have complained that it was doing too much right? It's kind of weird to complain that it doesn't add enough right now

[minor whale]

I mean yeah if you need sailing to go do a raid then it'll have big impact, but Shamanism would have been immediate impact to every single thing

[icy relic]

They really should have added a new BiS slayer master with sailing or boss slayer

[dawn jackal]

you're gonna sail to raids 4 island until you get your teleport drop and you're gonna like it

[narrow folio]

The point of the new skill is powercreep though

[minor whale]

I think the ideas of Shamanism were neat but as soon as the pitch became about modifying armor I checked out

[icy relic]

Too many task-only monsters now

[hard axle]

As long as it's not p2w locked, grinding your gear to unlock its full stats can be balanced

[narrow folio]

Doesnt have to be a lot but engaging with shamanism could have done a lot to make combat more interesting

[hard axle]

not interesting per se

[narrow folio]

And aside from combat, it offered skilling augments

[hard axle]

but just made it stronger lmao

[hasty shard]

walking a mile across broken glass for 1 billion irl is probably balanced i wouldnt call that anywhere near fun