game-update

[craggy wind]

I’d rather mine to 99 again than do agility

[chrome lantern]

I don’t see why your point is reevant

[craggy wind]

We need a more afk method that isn’t just 11k per hour at 94 😭

[chrome lantern]

I maxed literally this year

[hard axle]

yes it is because you’re saying it’s shit and you don’t even have a good explanation besides “lol”

[true talon]

because i look at fundimentals and design of things not from personal perspective.

[hard axle]

You never look at fundamentals and design

[chrome lantern]

It’s not like I’m some elitist that maxed 5 years ago and can’t imagine skilling in its base form

[true talon]

i do

[hard axle]

Doubt

[small anvil]

Man with preconceived conclusions tries to force data to fit those conclusions

[chrome lantern]

As it turns out, people don’t like every aspect of the game

And that’s fine

[true talon]

correct

[chrome lantern]

But the answer isn’g to just give them more xp

It’s just to not do the things you don’t like

[small anvil]

Mining is fine

[chrome lantern]

And live with that

[true talon]

wrong the answer is to give them a reason to engage with it.

[chrome lantern]

Nobody “deserves” to max

[small anvil]

It's got like the most variety of any skill in training?

Besides combat

[chrome lantern]

Attempting to appeal to everyone is the easiest way to make everything flop

ToA prime example

[small anvil]

I mean real functionally different varieties, not agility courses counting separate

[true talon]

doesnt seem like it, considerng the game is doing the best its ever has.

TOA was a massive success regardless of what the .01% think

[rare grotto]

how about ppl play the game

instead of wanting a method that doesn't play the game

[hard axle]

If we’re not being delusional and Reddit pilled, people crying about mining bad have always wanted something that was 400k/hr or giga afk.

[true talon]

i think tob is the worst raid they ever created from both a finicial standpoint and player retention.

[chrome lantern]

“Fast” is always a relative term, as discussed multiple times, stars are way more xp than they have any right to be

For zero input

[small anvil]

I do kinda feel like agility could use an afk method, I couldn't find one to do on mobile

[hard axle]

Most completed doesn’t mean much when giant mole is more completed than Yama

[small anvil]

I could have done the poh thing but it was too expensive

[true talon]

however tob is a good raid, its not a aspect of the game that draws in a lot of player subs and often keeps players from engaging with it.

[hard axle]

The fact is the more accessible something is, the more people do it

[chrome lantern]

I’ll be real, I don’t even think agility needs an afk method

[hard axle]

That doesn’t mean it’s good

look at it from a fundamental and design perspective

As Tass claims

[true talon]

reddit pilled is just a term people made up for those who disagree with them.

[rare grotto]

reddit is just another term for casual

[hard axle]

And it still has 10m clears

You literally just compared an older raid to an older raid too

[chrome lantern]

ToA having so many clears is the explicit goal of Jagex

They explicitly wanted an accessible raid and did that at the expense of all else

[true talon]

so what? the game has the most players it ever had. more people engaging and having fun with the content. is better than this limited only i can do it and the dev need to design it only to suite me and my friends mentality that people seem to always take.

[rare grotto]

yeah drive up engagement numbers by making a raid shit purples

[hard axle]

How many rebalances has toa had?

[rare grotto]

fix it years later

see toa is a succes!!

[hard axle]

yeah like, it being three to six times as rewarding per raid

Definitely had an impact

[true talon]

Yea that impact came from the high lvl raids. i will cont to call 400-550+ high lvl raids.

[hard axle]

people acting like it was the perfect raid but if you stuck tbows on obor, obor would be popular as fuck

[chrome lantern]

And I will continue to call 350s low level raids

[hard axle]

Bro, you literally blamed teams until they dropped the data

And now you switched scapegoating

[rare grotto]

avg tass

not to mention more purps came from under 400%

[chrome lantern]

46% from 0-350s

And 0-300 untouched by changes

[rare grotto]

damn why exclude 350-400

doesn't fit the narrative

[true talon]

solo obviously has more completetions, because it takes time to find teams and also bots dont run in teams. but carry on.

[vivid ruin]

I feel like when content first comes out, its ok for drops to be common. But after ~ a month, drops should get tweaked to being more rare. Imo, fang being best stab weapon and also dropping under 10m is disgusting

[hard axle]

No, they flat out said that the amount of purples coming from teams was minor as shit

what we saying

[chrome lantern]

I say 350 because for a 400 you at least probably need like a zhasta or something lol

[vivid ruin]

Also lightbearer being top 3 rings and priced at 2m is also disgusting

[chrome lantern]

But below that you don’t need a bofa or zhasta or anything

[rare grotto]

remind me not to argue with pissrandoms in oscord

[true talon]

10% of uniques or something being from teams i think? i dont remember the fully cited data. i just know 59% of uniques was 400+ raids

[hard axle]

People were coping at 55% drop rate

And Jagex just dumped a deuce on that theory

[true talon]

while 400+ had lower lvl of total completetions

[chrome lantern]

Turns out teams isn’t even that different from just 8 people running a solo at the same time

And way more people do that

[hard axle]

8 people running solos is more purples per hour than an 8 man, and that’s before you factor in team finding

[rare grotto]

had to fact check this idiot using the screenies he HIMSELF posted, 39% of uniques above 400

how can ppl just straight up lie like this

#game-update message

[true talon]

Dunno what math you run by but having 39% of the uniques with only 19% of the total completetions means you are indeed the problem.

[rare grotto]

i'm quoting "59% of uniques was 400+ raids"

[hard axle]

300 was expert mode at release, but they made so many changes that 300s are closer to 400s now

Who remember WTP and Pathmaster and Level Ups on release

[true talon]

infact 500 is even the worst of them all holding 7% of the unique generation while being only 3%

[rare grotto]

i love how he gets proven wrong and then shifts the argument to oh the % of total completion rates

[stuck mauve]

should make it that faster speed = better purple chance

[hard axle]

And yall were talking mad shit about high level invos and teams, yet in both case it’s minor af

[rare grotto]

fact is 150-350 print more purples than all the "high invo" raids combined

and they're piss easy

[hard axle]

You can’t have your cake and eat it too lmao

[vivid ruin]

Or like with dt2 bosses, time + perfection = better rates

[rare grotto]

let's see tass do money 545s

[hard axle]

Either hlc members are tiny af or they’re not tiny af

[rare grotto]

vs money 200s

[true talon]

teams might of been lower than i thought, mainly because i didnt factor in toa bots spamming solo 24/7. however the high lvl raids are indeed the problem.

[rare grotto]

and now he shifts the argument to bots

[stuck mauve]

yeah, solo cms that are close to wr times should be 20m/h

[rare grotto]

i'm getting baited so hard by this dummy

[hard axle]

Substantially lower

You were talking so much shit about it that I thought you had inside information

[small anvil]

Isn't it depressing to realize that people are indeed that silly, rather than thinking they just be trolling

[stuck mauve]

since oathplate contracts are 100m/h, solo tob gp/h should be doubled

[true talon]

Maybe you will understand if i say this.
3% of the osrs population is holding 7% of the total rs wealth.
or 19% is holding 39% of the total rs wealth. do you understand?

[rare grotto]

this guy thinks 545s should be as lucrative as 150

is this what delusion looks like

[true talon]

Clearly that was a guess created from observational data. not fact lol.

[small anvil]

Ah we want communism in rs now right

[hard axle]

And what’s wrong with that?

A 300 should not be as lucrative as a 500

if it was, no one would be 300

[stuck mauve]

you can be a raid level?

[rare grotto]

mfw i do 200 toa and ppl make more money at 545

[small anvil]

How dare they

[stuck mauve]

i cant believe you have done this

[true talon]

i claimed that high lvl raids were the unique problem, which was proven by data and your like oh you want low lvl raids to be as profitable?? you lost the plot lol.

[hard axle]

It’s like how CMs technically generate more purples per hour than normal cox

[small anvil]

You claimed teams were the problem actually

[hard axle]

Or scaled cox to normal cox

[small anvil]

And like 540s were in fact not the reason toa drops were so cheap

[hard axle]

Tass doesn’t even know what he’s arguing anymore

[small anvil]

As evidenced by the fact that it's 7% of drops

[true talon]

actually i claimed that raids above 400 in 8 man was generating a purple every 1.5 raids. thus leading to the conclusion that this was the problem. however i was wrong and its just everyone spamming solo's.

[stuck mauve]

tassili are you rushen

[vivid ruin]

Fellas, jagex is totally reading these debates and taking notes. So lets make sure we never lose a debate no matter the cost!

[true talon]

7% of the loot with only 3% of the completetions is a problem........ how do you not understand this concept lol.

[small anvil]

They are twice as efficient at getting drops as average wow what a shocker

[true talon]

if you hold a smaller part of the total attempts but a large portion of the reward then you are the problem.....

[hard axle]

It’s 7% of the fucking loot

You’re acting like it’s 70%

that’s the problem

[small anvil]

The actual amount of shadows made by 500+ is tiny

It's not why the gear is cheap

[hard axle]

Even if you completely removed 7% of uniques

Price doesn’t go up that much

Lmaoooo

Man doesn’t understand this

Basic math and he doesn’t understand

[stuck mauve]

https://imgur.com/a/odtFtZX

[rare grotto]

tass went from saying team raids were the problem, 59% of purp chance at high invos (fact checked to 39%) were the problem to purp chance/%of total completions being the problem

blud is jumping from argument to argument

surely something sticks

[small anvil]

That's what happens when you start at the conclusion

[rare grotto]

l00000000000l

[true talon]

ok well 300-500+ is only 53% of the raids while holding 78 of the uniques and technically by jagex standard 300 is high lvl raid. considering thats when the raid turns to expert the highest difficulty.

[rare grotto]

dude

[small anvil]

And find "facts" to support it

[rare grotto]

that is the best description of what's happening

[rain fulcrum]

It's crazy that almost half of total completions are normals

The irons r fucking with the data imo

[ember token]

yeah they are

[stuck mauve]

yeah dont mess with data

[small anvil]

Yeah blame the irons, it's always the irons fault

[rare grotto]

imo it's sad either way because its looking like best invo is going to be 450/500 depending on how fast u can be

just killed high invo in 1 update

[vivid ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/rowing-boat-simpsons-bart-circles-gif-14138184

[vivid ruin]

Tbh

[true talon]

When did vard become like the 4th best money maker in the game also crafting aether runes XD how old is this data

[stuck mauve]

vard is only that much if you get the axe

[true talon]

ahh if you farm out the full axe

[stuck mauve]

otherwise its around vorkath tier boss for gp

[vivid ruin]

Ultor?

[hard axle]

It’s like how if you killed the top 1%, you would remove something like 50% of the tax revenue

[small anvil]

Fully half of the dt2 boss money making is from completing an axe iirc

[hard axle]

Except the top 3% is only responsible for 7%

In osrs

[ember token]

yeah semi-recently the value of SRA was added to the mmg guides for DT2 bosses

and crafting aether runes is only that good if you buy a fuck ton of catalysts

[small anvil]

And wiki prices use ge default

And that's not great for aether

[hard axle]

Wiki guides are also notoriously conservative in kills per hour

And inconsistent

so it might disproportionately favor one MMG over another

[true talon]

toa one says 1.7 kph

i dont feel 545 solo is doable 1.7 kph

thats like 30 mins?

somewhere around there

35 ish

[stuck mauve]

yeah

[timber drift]

wen monke hp fix

[hard axle]

[[mmg]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Money_making_guide

[stuck mauve]

[hasty shard]

monkey making guide

[true talon]

shadow is 14m of the profit lol

if you dont get a shadow rip

I do wish they address prayer scrolls in cm's though, once i get 1 more twisted kit i prob wont do a cm again.

1+1 baby cms is more pph and faster

[stuck mauve]

whats baby cms

normal mode cm layout?

[true talon]

yea

[stuck mauve]

if they take longer than 30 mins and net you less than 58k points then its not really faster, so its more of a question how quickly you can complete solo cms

[hard axle]

98% of my emotes have been stolen

Give me some good gifs in return

so I can use them to terrorize folks

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/510662236696608770/1382671726005190676/DUKEIFHEWASIMPOSSIBLE.gif

[stuck mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-meow-cute-gif-18625283

[vivid ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/haram-gif-26607190

My fave gif ^

[stuck mauve]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1073037371441954857/1078434649409331250/bubuh.gif

[hard axle]

It’s exactly like this

That’s why CMs give you the extra 5k points per person at the end

Objectively speaking and same gear/skill assumption, without that bonus, CMs would be even more worse than normal cox

Points per hour wise

[true talon]

1+1 takes like 40 mins an returns around 82k ish points

im not that good at chambers, so im sure you can get it shorter

[stuck mauve]

isnt normal mode small layout duo 45k points, normal mode duo cm layout gives almost double that?

doesnt add up but then again ive never run it

[hard axle]

82k points in 40 would be 120k an hour

[rare grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/house-md-happy-gif-9907578319424312957

[hard axle]

Or 20 minute normal cox

Uhhhhh

82 seems really fucking high

[stuck mauve]

theres no way

[hard axle]

Well actually

[stuck mauve]

duo cm is 100k pts

[true talon]

Latest one i had when they came out (again not good at chambers)

[stuck mauve]

how is normal mode cm 82k

[hasty shard]

thats 52!!1 smh

[hard axle]

Yeah

[true talon]

well ya im dogass lmao

[hard axle]

CMS have more hp which is more point s

[true talon]

someone good at chambers can get a lot of time off it

[true talon]

1+1 has 25% more hp than CM just none of the defense.

[hard axle]

no, I’m comparing duo cm to 1+1 baby cm

points

Cuz I’ve done duo cms

[true talon]

ya 1+1 cm was 98k

[stuck mauve]

i zee

[true talon]

it dont give you the points for the scaled person you added

just 5k for yourself

[hard axle]

God, I wish the scaling wasn’t so ass

[stuck mauve]

you'd be better off doing a good point layout and add extra scales in

[hard axle]

Would be easier to compare

[hasty shard]

cm buff when

[stuck mauve]

real

[hasty shard]

we only get cox nerfs now!!1

[hard axle]

Let’s compare solo cm to solo baby cm

Actually wait fuck

He hasn’t done baby cm solo

[stuck mauve]

[hard axle]

I don’t know what’s a good time for duo cm lmao

[timber drift]

hp monkey fix when

wen*

[hard axle]

something like 20-25 I guess since that’s in between solo and trio

[true talon]

trio is faster but doesnt have additional scaling

duo si the worst scale

[stuck mauve]

solo cms are already long, doing a scaled solo cm sounds boring and long

at that point i'd rather do a 40 min solo tob

[hasty shard]

1+7 solo cm

[stuck mauve]

[hard axle]

either way, solo normal cox can be upwards of 120/hr at 4 clears an hour with no scouts lined up or 150k/hr if you have scouts lined up.

so yeah, if he’s actually getting 1+1 40 minutes at 80 minutes, it’s not bad

[true talon]

1+2 baby cm is prob decent it just scales olm

again im not good at chambers so i choose to pick what i wont die on XD

i did a 1+1 solo CM it took around 1 hour (made time) it was like 98k points or something

you dont get CM points for scaling the raid yourself sadly

that be kinda cool if you got 5k per person you add to scale

However more people you add less time you got to time it

so thats prob why its like that

[obsidian venture]

We know dw

@rare grotto get cooked mate

Also don’t know what so hard to understand about rewarding “more” effort. Higher invos should lead to more purples, that’s just logical

But the data shows, people blamed teams (proven wrong) and 500+ (proven wrong), when sub 400 yields the most

But the latter point is a point of subjectivity as folks at the high end consider sub 400 low invo

[obsidian venture]

Like 25ish

Prob lower if no prep

[hasty shard]

the only additional rewards 500+ should give you is referrals to a psychiatrist

[hard axle]

I’m already in a restraint suit and you all are figments of my imagination

[stuck mauve]

[hard axle]

Yeah I’m stealing that

[vivid ruin]

I think anything under 300 should also get nerfed unique wise. Should be mostly a common drop table with a flat small percentage of getting purps

[opaque bloom]

is cox bugged atm? mage hand with sang staff felt weird

[hard axle]

Animation changed

[opaque bloom]

messed up drag animation or something

[opaque bloom]

intentionally or unintentional?

[hard axle]

Intentional

I miss the stall ngl

It looked so good

[opaque bloom]

nooooo

i liked the stall

[hard axle]

Right??

[opaque bloom]

petition to revert pls jegex

[hard axle]

how I felt using it back then

[opaque bloom]

and remove seeds too

[vivid ruin]

They broke something that didnt need to be fixed 😭

[hard axle]

shadow doesn’t have a stall so I haven’t seen it in a while

[hard axle]

fix*

It was intended because noobs were crying about position mismatch

[vivid ruin]

But its broken now tbh

[hard axle]

Tbf, they did fix npc location mismatch

So I can’t blame them

Verzik used to giga stall too

Artio/callisto still do when they use KB special

[obsidian venture]

Wait

Why’d they remove the stall

[hard axle]

Here

[obsidian venture]

Bro?

That’s like one of the unique things

That made movements in osrs interesting

[hard axle]

They don’t care about long-term players cuz they know we ain’t leaving

[obsidian venture]

Always the noobs

[austere mulch]

No visual stall at cox looks weird af lol

[vivid ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-crash-out-crazy-sob-gif-11382421573513359486

[opaque bloom]

we riot now

[true talon]

its already like this, its like 2-3% for a unique lol.

[hard axle]

2-5%

[opaque bloom]

i appreatiate all the good updates they're bringing to osrs but cox changes ain't it

huhu

[vivid ruin]

Should be less. Can easily run 3 150s per hr

[obsidian venture]

Should of

Blanket nerf

[hard axle]

It’s like if mole had a 1% chance of a fang. The drop rate don’t make sense for the difficulty

[obsidian venture]

Someone have a clip of the 3:0 cycle without the stall

[hard axle]

Blanket change actually

It’s all trident animations

[obsidian venture]

Oh

[hard axle]

Warped Sceptre didn’t have animation stall

Shadow didn’t

Only trident seas swamp and dang

[true talon]

Ya guess it is around 4% for sub 300

[opaque bloom]

[hard axle]

[opaque bloom]

if i had money for shadow i wouldn't complain tbh

[hard axle]

shadow olm is a different beast

Ngl

[opaque bloom]

time to sell everything for shadow

[true talon]

shadow is the cheapest mega, but the support gear costs the most lol

[opaque bloom]

ye super fun

[true talon]

even after the purple nerf shadow still sits sub 1.1b

[hard axle]

[[tumeken shadow]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tumeken's_shadow

[opaque bloom]

ye im bout to rock mystics with it now

HAAHAHA

[small anvil]

Melee gear costs more than mage no

[true talon]

are you an ironman?

[warm storm]

shadow best first meg for sure

[small anvil]

Until ayak

[opaque bloom]

nah just super poor

lmao

[warm storm]

bloodbark if you must it still slaps

[hard axle]

Well, it was made way more common at higher invos, no?

[true talon]

Bloodbark has 1% magic damage and is extremely cheap

[hard axle]

Not way more, but more common

[true talon]

its on par with ahrims

[opaque bloom]

tf since when?

[hard axle]

mage rebalance a year ago

[opaque bloom]

im so behind wtf ..

[hard axle]

happens

[true talon]

Why ahrims cost so much i dunno lol

[sacred oracle]

do higher invos not give more purples now?

i suppose i could go back and read the blog

[obsidian venture]

Half as much

[sacred oracle]

but i do not want to

they still give higher than lower invos, thought, righ?

[obsidian venture]

More effort and halfed

[sacred oracle]

or has meta changed and lower invos are more efficient for purps

[obsidian venture]

Yeah but not really worth the time

[hasty shard]

if 500s are the meta thats really funny

[sacred oracle]

oh, so it's not that high invo is actually worse than lower invo, it's that the efficacy of them has been reduced until it no longer really feels worth the effort

[obsidian venture]

Imagine doing 30 min raids, then getting the rate nerfed by half and still doing 30 min raids

It wouldn’t have been an issue if all invos were targeted

[sacred oracle]

basically like if melee yama was only 3% faster

[obsidian venture]

Uh no

I’m talking like 50%

[true talon]

maybe, it depends. you can technically just melee with scythe in void which is free and str ammy/bring.
shadow in blood bark with seers ring and occult/tormented is a minimum.

[sacred oracle]

no, i mean like if all the effort of doing donofly and such only got you 1 more kph or smth

[small anvil]

The way toa scaling works is it slows the entire raid down cuz of invo level

[obsidian venture]

Ah ye

Somewhat then mox

[small anvil]

And much higher risk of wiping to mistake

[obsidian venture]

But same kph less chance

In this case

[hard axle]

Because left one is craftable and mass produced

Basic economics

[stuck mauve]

ahrims still has more accuracy which may be useful somewhere

[obsidian venture]

Pking 👍

Plus tankier

[rare grotto]

did this guy think if u nerf purp rate the price goes down?

[stuck mauve]

if youre looking to 4t vesp portal with a trident then ahrims also helps there some

[obsidian venture]

😅

[stuck mauve]

over bloodbark

[true talon]

we was mainly looking for cheap mage armor to go with shadow

[obsidian venture]

Oscords brightest apple

[warm storm]

why there in particular?

[true talon]

bloodbark is great choice

[stuck mauve]

4t trident is one of the best dps there if you dont have any better options

[warm storm]

but like what does ahrims have to do with it

[stuck mauve]

more accuracy

portal is tanky

theres a diff in ahrim vs bloodbark

[true talon]

if you didnt have a bowfa youd prob just not scout vespula

[stuck mauve]

vespula is one of the fastest rooms even if budget setup

so worth doing anyway

if overall layout is fast

[warm storm]

vespula best room

hella supplies hella quick hella points

[obsidian venture]

Indeed

[austere mulch]

P sure thieving is better pts/time now than vesp 🤣

How times have changed

[obsidian venture]

Thieving so good too

Can’t wait for them to change ice…

[opaque bloom]

@austere mulch think the cox stall removal would change the 4:0 mage hand method? or it wouldn't effect much? any discussions in being done sanity clan

[austere mulch]

It’s just visual so doesn’t change anything afaik

[opaque bloom]

ah i see

so just gotta get used to it eh

[warm storm]

can't wait til they add overload to puzzle rooms in 3 years

[stuck mauve]

yes

stall removal didnt change methods

[obsidian venture]

Ran a no prep trio cox with ice for shits and giggles

And got a 10:40

Was like a 1min+ difference from rec layouts

[warm storm]

oh right ember works there now right? sick

[vivid ruin]

Redemption vespula good

[stuck mauve]

[vivid ruin]

[austere mulch]

Bclaws also nasty on ice now

[warm storm]

ember better than shadow/tbow i assume? it wasn't far behind before the update

[stuck mauve]

does it do full damage now?

if not then fire wave or surge it is

[austere mulch]

Yeah all demonbane does full dmg now

[stuck mauve]

oh nice

[split jolt]

Time wise, no. Points, sure.

[chrome surge]

Its been said right, 40hp shaman toa feels off?

[austere mulch]

Yeah, just saying it’s better pts/hr

Eg. If money raiding (non cm), should be scouting rope/thieving ideally

[meager flame]

Good proof of concept though if you go check the population of those activities

Quest speed running is another one

[ember token]

half of the 10 total people you see on speedrun worlds are just there to practice jad

[dire mango]

and where do you propose we check? the central pvm speedrun hub?

[small anvil]

There's speed running worlds in rs, check the world pops

It is not at all a popular activity

[opaque bloom]

okay i take it back, the stall removal is not that bad kek.. Was just weird on the first solo after update

[austere mulch]

Idk how anyone on Jagex end thought that quest speedrunning would be a popular thing

[hard axle]

Pvm Speedrunning is already extremely niche and they went with questing for some reason idk

[dire mango]

if you think most ppl that do speedrun content hang out in quest speed world you're cooked

[small anvil]

Some YouTubers made some videos

[meager flame]

Common sense? You just talked about end game speed running lol that's a fraction of a fraction of players I'm not even saying its bad that it exists you just replied to me talking about how most players wouldnt show up if they were getting nothing

[ember token]

part of the thing with quest speedrunning is that unless you care to compete for WR, once you get the times, you're done, so that contributes to the worlds being more dead

[small anvil]

And jagex thought it would be good

[ember token]

getting the platinum trophy doesn't take that long

[small anvil]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[meager flame]

Lol like duh most people aren't doing that

[dark token]

Most liekly for sailing

[dire mango]

never said most ppl, you did

[meager flame]

Ik I did you replied to me

[ember token]

idk how much of an undertaking QSR was for jagex but I can't imagine they spent that much time on it

[meager flame]

But yeah the quest speed running is the easiest example

Since you can just like visually confirm

[dire mango]

so you can see the number of people going for personal recs at tob or inferno right now?

[small anvil]

Oh you're just talking about speeds

Yeah it's an end game activity

Mostly

[meager flame]

Originally though the point was that most players when put in a situation to gain nothing will instead find something else to do

Which I dont really think is controversial

[dire mango]

depends on what your goals are

[small anvil]

There's not many non max bank people doing set money on fire reset pb chasing

I think turkeys point is generally true even if not absolutely true

[dire mango]

idc about post 99xp, yet some do, and spend tons of time and money getting it. In my view they gain nothing, but they are working towards their goals, and that's fine.

[rare grotto]

honestly u could probs make a banger "speedrun history" video on those

[small anvil]

Like how many pet hunters actually let drops despawn

[dire mango]

we're all literally playing a game you "gain nothing" from.

[small anvil]

We gain number going up

[obsidian venture]

Ahh true

[hasty shard]

👍 destroying at rax here

[small anvil]

It's a powerful driving force

I'm not talking destroy

[meager flame]

I actually think the quest speed run worlds suffer over a lack of rewards because in general

[small anvil]

I'm talking like leave loot on the ground to hop gwd world

[meager flame]

It was a fun couple of hours

[small anvil]

And leave a BCP on the floor

Or whatever psycho rich guy stuff Draco does

[obsidian venture]

We just reset

[small anvil]

Or not picking up the sub 1m loot at muspah for reset the instance

[obsidian venture]

He also doesn’t loot

But the point being made is that not everything needs to be a strict positive reward

[small anvil]

I think turkey is correct in the average case

[meager flame]

Usually low reward low exp activities are also boring drudgery if you were to go grab them all and make a list but

[obsidian venture]

I think the case in question was cox

[hasty shard]

btw convo is pointless cause they fixed the seeds

[small anvil]

But yes there are things post game players chase when gp or XP accumulation is not important to them anymore

[obsidian venture]

But it was overtuned to some degree

[meager flame]

Quest speed runs are different and it can be pretty fun you just dont really get anything

[small anvil]

Quests is just a category very few people care about

[hasty shard]

i swear every time drop balance is a discussion its impossible for people to not be hyperbolic

[obsidian venture]

Like speedrunning is a net negative almost always, but it’s something that people get into if they want to challenge themselves

[ember token]

the short/very short quest speedruns are very fun to optimize imo

[meager flame]

The topic originally was actually about shale and how

[small anvil]

Boss PB has a much larger pool of people competing inherently

[ember token]

anything longer than like, 10 minutes sucks ass

[dire mango]

you get a cool pb that you can flex. and that's enough in most cases if enough people do it and care about it

[meager flame]

Its a lot of work for mediocre exp and low gp now

[obsidian venture]

Also a neat graceful color

Actually looks good imo

[hasty shard]

and the uh platinum trophy wowee

the home tele is actually a maingame buff

[meager flame]

With relatively high reqs compared to other mining activities

[hasty shard]

saves a few ticks vs normal home teles

[meager flame]

Leading to people just having no real reason to do shale

[hasty shard]

yeah it just seems objectively worse than gem rocks rn lol

[small anvil]

Just make shards untradeable

[hasty shard]

and considering you gotta chisel vs dropping gems/deposit box ehh

that too

[small anvil]

And wow lot of reason to do shale

[hasty shard]

untradable shards and people are forced to buy shale lol

[small anvil]

Oh wait right it's tradeable lol

Oop

[obsidian venture]

Did they update seeds from muspah?

[hasty shard]

make oathplate randomly explode scaling on your smithing level

[meager flame]

Idk what they should even do about cox drops

[obsidian venture]

Give it the hmt treatment and have Cms give less of a chance for scrolls

[meager flame]

I agree with them giving skilling supplies instead of products but honestly they might need to add some alchs or something

[obsidian venture]

Nah not needed

[meager flame]

Its just really weird to be like

[rare grotto]

did urly suggest alchs

[meager flame]

Yo theres 25k in seeds you cant use grats after your deathless solo cm

[obsidian venture]

That’s fine

[hasty shard]

yeees add rune alchs

[meager flame]

Idk that's a long way from what it was value wise

[obsidian venture]

Again not sure why you need to insanely profit everytime

[hasty shard]

im waiting for when they actually make a gwd droptable

cause they still havent

[rare grotto]

all that matters is that you profit on avg, and from what i can see cox gp/hr didn't tank that much?

[true talon]

I agree, however i also agree that because you enjoy xp past 99 and want to see number go up that you dont gatekeep or dictate that the game cant get better xp rates or more enjoyable training methods.

[meager flame]

I mean did we think the cox drop table was broken and too profitable last week

[hasty shard]

cox was already on the low end of gp/h riight?

[meager flame]

Because I dont really see why we would just nerf it outright

[obsidian venture]

Cox drop table has always been an issue tbh

Just something people didn’t talk about

It’s really insane that they put that many drops on there

[true talon]

every boss should be normal nightmare and kree'ara tier loot

[obsidian venture]

Then scrolls are 60% of it

[hasty shard]

[obsidian venture]

And the amount of stuff you get supply wise is insane

[meager flame]

They nerfed kree too dw

Those monsters picking up the seed drops

[small anvil]

Scrolls needed to be that plentiful early on

[obsidian venture]

Needed sure but Royal titans do exist now

[small anvil]

But they need to reduce the rate of the ones that everyone needs after a year or smth

[hasty shard]

gwd table in essence:
rune alch every kill
somewhat rare unique drop
minions/boss drop supplies

[small anvil]

Like rigour cost what 200m? In the first month I'd expect

[meager flame]

People would have a seizure if they actually did gwd tables

[true talon]

was more than that, in my staking days i invested like 700m in prayers

for rig an aug

[hasty shard]

they would 😭

[meager flame]

They'd finish the boss in like 3 days and actually get 10 hours of sleep

[small anvil]

Like I think it's good to flood enough early on with a higher drop rate while people are focused on the content

[meager flame]

And scream its too rewarding

[small anvil]

But I do think the ratio is out of whack long term

On stuff like rigour/Aug, avernic, fang/lightbearer

[austere mulch]

350m is what I first paid for rigour

[true talon]

Well its not that ratio got whack, its that they reduced the ammount of uniques on the table, have increased points by QOL and have made the raid more enjoyable though QOL.

[meager flame]

I think the ge tax will mostly handle that problem

[austere mulch]

But on the other hand, also paid like 780m for my first bow

[meager flame]

Rigour just has almost a decade of stock

[austere mulch]

Right after it was nerfed

[true talon]

they removed harpoon, d sword and i think d throwing axes and knifes all off the unique table

[small anvil]

Rigour and avernic are one per account

[hasty shard]

nightmare is just kind of too many supply drops and takes 10x ttk compared to gwd
dt2 is like genuinely more troll drops than krakens drop table and has good luck prevention

[austere mulch]

Rigour would easily still be worth 300m+ if supply/demand could make that work

Stonks

[small anvil]

I don't think they wanted it at 300

But it surely could still be 30

[true talon]

dead eye kinda murdered rigours monoply as well

[small anvil]

To 80

[true talon]

and mystic vigour is basically augury lol

[meager flame]

Ya that's where the ge tax can fix it

[austere mulch]

Oh true

[small anvil]

It's too common for tax to fix

[meager flame]

They get to play god with the economy

[small anvil]

And they did Titans prayers

[hasty shard]

ok i kind of excluded saying 'lol ring take long time to get' cause idfk the actual time to get but no soulreaper exists and your gp/h is just notably worse until you make it, and that is a long grind

[meager flame]

And nah they sink insane gp

[small anvil]

Like unless they're buying literally 70% of the rigours generated per day long term, and buy more than that short term

[meager flame]

They could clean the ge of dex scrolls

[small anvil]

I don't see the price heading upwards

[meager flame]

They just aren't aggressive

[austere mulch]

Sneaky give rigour and Aug scrolls a 1/3 chance to be removed on sell offers using gp tax and don’t tell anybody for a year

[small anvil]

The overall quantity in existence is just so high rn

[true talon]

Really death coffer needs to play a part in sinking items off Ge also

[small anvil]

Yeah I don't think that would be enough lol

[true talon]

not just the tax

[hasty shard]

goading pot (2) coffer

[tacit wharf]

i am genuinely curious if they removed items from bots collections logs, when they ban them, from the game

[small anvil]

Coffer is weird

[austere mulch]

It’s ok we getting new prayer upgrades with raids 4 anyways

[small anvil]

It's anti-sink

[meager flame]

Idk why they dont just invest in fixing the issue with a one time unannounced purchase of like

[ember token]

they dont

[meager flame]

Every dex or similarly problematic item

[small anvil]

Coffer is like aimed at iron stuff

And actually not beneficial to the economy I feel

[meager flame]

And just hard reset

[true talon]

if they remove every dex then they create a shortage if they not careful

[meager flame]

They might even have to do it once in awhile just due to people hoarding

[hasty shard]

make tob deaths 500k
its time

[meager flame]

But the main thing is tell nobody

[true talon]

get rid of death storages and make gravestones an make it 500k if you die

[tacit wharf]

a big way to fight inflation they could do, and dont see why they arent

[true talon]

Also spawn outside of instance if you die

[small anvil]

Yeah they could easily adjust their sink list more dynamically without notice

[meager flame]

And creating the shortage is kind of the point

[austere mulch]

Coffer is good bc it’s an item sink, but on the other end of that, it leaves the gp in the game that would otherwise be spent on death

[ember token]

how does resetting a bot's collection log fight inflation

[meager flame]

They'd want to reset the market and gague how many are coming in now

And set the passive rate of deleting them to a sustainable number

[true talon]

well that gp is used to buy the items used in death's coffer.

[idle rapids]

theyve removed stuff from my clog

[lone pond]

Would like to personally thank fagex for killing castle wars

[ember token]

the items have already entered the game, deleting their clog does nothing

[lone pond]

Ty

[hasty shard]

if nobody knows that they start giga sinking scrolls;
would the price even change until there's literally not a stockpile left

[meager flame]

Probably not

Nobody would know until it was here lol

Its just with dex and avernic you have so many years of accumulated extras that they probably need something to get them started

[rare grotto]

what do you think this achieves

[small anvil]

Yeah, it's the weird high ge value stuff that gets sunk for mains tho lol

[tacit wharf]

meant more so they remove x items from the game that the bot brought in, that they could confirm due to collection log tracking it

[small anvil]

What benefit is there to goading (2) being sunk

[meager flame]

Otherwise we might have to wait years for them to outpace the surplus

And have a positive impact

[small anvil]

Coffer for irons makes sense

It's weird for mains

And like counter productive

It sinks things that the ge has too high value on

[hasty shard]

mildly annoying people

[small anvil]

Which is low volume stuff anyway

[ember token]

ahh gotcha, im gonna guess they probably don't do that either

but idk for certain

[meager flame]

Tbh I kinda wish we could do fresh start worlds again

Its fun when nobody has anything and you find out how valuable stuff really is

[oblique mesa]

100% thats also some of the fun merching on DMM

[hallow musk]

22 mine, 26 expected. The whole 4x dry streak has been now (was on rate at 22, then just left)

[timber drift]

wen monkey hp fix

[hallow musk]

Hoofi btw ty

[tacit wharf]

so wait

[hallow musk]

Yes I didn't use BP before

[tacit wharf]

ait shadow 1/24 purple chance

[hallow musk]

Was at the very least

[tacit wharf]

so yr at rate

[hallow musk]

Yes?

[austere mulch]

Yeah but that’s just a transfer of gp, not a removal. It’s the items that are getting removed

[tacit wharf]

aint 2x rate

or 4x rate

just at rate

[austere mulch]

Which is good, we need item sinks too

[hallow musk]

I never said I was over rate x, I said (or meant) 4x purp dry streak

And technically on rate, but dry fro shadow

[tacit wharf]

no but things like statistically impossible

[meager flame]

Idk if they can even actually sink enough gp and have the game stay fun

[hallow musk]

Yeah I said I like watching my excel sheet trend towards statistically improbable

[meager flame]

Just thinking about it its like

[hallow musk]

Not that I was currently

And that knowing the formula allows me to keep track of that

[meager flame]

Nobody really wants bills for real in osrs and that's what it would take lmao

That ge tax needs to do some extremely heavy lifting to fight inflation

I want an updated gold sink list from jagex showing the like

Top 25 gold sinks in the game

[hallow musk]

Btw kephri mager now counts thralls as a hit

[meager flame]

And how that compares to raw gp generation in the same time period

[hallow musk]

Solo it really sucks

If you aren't quick, your thrall can move it right when you get there

[meager flame]

I basically want to see what it would take for them to reach deflation on gp value

[timber drift]

wait for what

[blissful ginkgo]

are we not getting amethyst cannon balls?

[timber drift]

wen monkey hp fix

[obsidian venture]

In 3 years

[timber drift]

so about 4k more asks from me..

[hallow musk]

It was the BP venoming which then let them attack

[chrome lantern]

I have said this many times now, surely they stop

[timber drift]

oh yeah

[hallow musk]

Is there a spot to post pictures in this disc?

[timber drift]

u can post with enough perms

u can dm me i can post it for you

well

if its sfw

[hallow musk]

I did the hardwork and make the trend lines for purple chance and weighting

Of each item

[chrome lantern]

I got plat cup and it was pretty fun

[rare grotto]

redditors going full insane

[dark sluice]

whats the deal with the new keris partisan? it seems kind of bad?

like I thought it was supposed to bridge the gap between hasta and fang, but its just an extremely slightly stronger hasta

[timber drift]

wen monke hp fix

[austere mulch]

Sounds like it bridges the gap then. Just by a laughably small amount 😆

[hard axle]

they're too used to the normal jagex bridging where the new item ends up being way closer to the higher end gear

dragon claws being the niche bis soec now and burning being psuedo bis spec is just one example

they really should've just kept upped blue keris instead of making a 4th gem

[dark sluice]

its more just that this isnt what they said it would be

its practically just a zhasta that doesnt require killing kril

not an item that bridges the immense gap between fang/no fang

[rain fulcrum]

Boo hoo go get a fang

[obsidian venture]

Depending on invo, there isn’t an insane gap

What they could have done is gave blue gem a use in toa

That way you have a stick for kephri and in general melee stab for the raid

[dark sluice]

oh duh why didnt I think of that! maybe they could make fangs more common so its more approachable for people to get into the raid?

[obsidian venture]

You can reliably use hasta till like 350s so this should lead to more consistency

Pre fang

[obsidian venture]

Fangs are very common as is

They also made it more common post change in low invos

[rain fulcrum]

They're already common my man

They had to be made more rare because they are too common

[obsidian venture]

Also the solo waves time is faster on avg

If the waves are slower, skill issue or gear issue and or both

[dark sluice]

yea that was the joke

they just made them more rare

[rain fulcrum]

The partisan is probably pretty good for 2025 irons who r too weak minded to grind kril

[obsidian venture]

Only in higher invos

More common in lower now

[dark sluice]

well im a 2025 iron with a hasta wondering who this update actually serves

[obsidian venture]

Serves you really

[rain fulcrum]

2025 irons without hasta

[dark sluice]

cause it materially changes nothing for me

[rain fulcrum]

It's slightly better I guess

Quite a bit more accurate

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

[dark sluice]

its a 5% upgrade at best

[obsidian venture]

That’s fine

[dark sluice]

its pointless

[rain fulcrum]

You were expecting a 50% upgrade for free or what tho

5% free is nice

[obsidian venture]

People fight for 1% upgrades

5% is a blessing

Expecting too much tbh

[dark sluice]

it doesnt bridge any gaps. it barely moves the needle

[obsidian venture]

It moves the needle slightly

[dark sluice]

im just expecting them to do what they said

[obsidian venture]

So that’s ok

It does

It literally sits in between both

Jagex has failed moreso this year on what they say vs what is implemented

And this time they got it right for this one measly Ironman gem

Not game breaking but you’ll save a few seconds

[rain fulcrum]

It's like a 10 second time save on baba

Pretty good for a single item

[obsidian venture]

That’s nice

Anything over 5s is a considerable upgrade

[rain fulcrum]

Well I just added bgs and it went down to like 5s

[dark sluice]

yea

[rain fulcrum]

But yeah still good

[obsidian venture]

What invo

300 I assume

[rain fulcrum]

It's considerably more accurate

300

[obsidian venture]

Yeah fair enough

[rain fulcrum]

It's probably a bigger difference at 400

[fair comet]

yeah

[dark sluice]

400 invo with 20 bgs damage is a 6 second time save on a 200 second fight

[obsidian venture]

We take those

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah and you get it for free

Congrats

[dark sluice]

compared to the 48 seconds between hasta and fang

not really bridging shit

[rain fulcrum]

Drop a fang then

[dark sluice]

oh its free? I didnt realize it appeared in my inv. I thought I had to go get it

[rain fulcrum]

It's supposed to be an upgrade

I'm glad they didn't fuck it up like bclaws

[obsidian venture]

Last time they tried to bridge an item, they made it better than what was intended. Looking at you burning claws

[rain fulcrum]

You even got like

A huge time save from not having to red x assuming u were not doing 5:1

[obsidian venture]

Also that

[rain fulcrum]

The partisan is honestly a completely unnecessary addition

[obsidian venture]

Baba actually afk

Did some yesterday and barely moved

[rain fulcrum]

Baba does no damage, kephri does no damage, neither of the rooms you predominantly stab require you to do good damage really

[sacred oracle]

more common?????????????

[dark sluice]

hey now you are agreeing with me at least

[rain fulcrum]

And you don't have to mage akkha anymore

[sacred oracle]

(this is the extent of what i'm willing to contribute to this conversation)

[dark sluice]

it was totally unnecessary

[rain fulcrum]

Doing higher invos raids as an iron is enormously easier

[dark sluice]

it hardly does anything at all

[sacred oracle]

actually, let me edit it to add more question marks so my absolute dumbfounded incredulity is more apparent

[rain fulcrum]

I agree it shouldn't exist but moreso because now ppl will go in with even less than a hasta to get the ToA stab wep

[dark sluice]

tramayne it was sarcasm not sure how you missed that

[rain fulcrum]

Then just skip everything progression wise

By jumping straight to fang

[dark sluice]

we have devalued hasta to being an ingredient even more now for a barely percievable upgrade

[rain fulcrum]

A better solution would be to fix ToA defense and make fang behave in ToA as it does everywhere else

[hasty shard]

^

[rain fulcrum]

The raid being balanced around prenerf fang is hilarious

Well lance is still a huge upgrade

So hasta is still important

Not sure if that's what you meant as a barely perceivable upgrade or not

Cuz lance is definitely perceivable

[fair comet]

yeah

[dark sluice]

no

we have devauled it in service of a barely percievable upgrade

im not talking about dhl

[rain fulcrum]

Not sure what you meant by ingredient then

[hasty shard]

how did i miss arma getting more expensive than masori

[dark sluice]

hasta is an ingredient for dhl

[sacred oracle]

i'm not sure about a lot of things

[dark sluice]

instead of a weapon

[hasty shard]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1ll8e36/masori_now_costs_23_of_the_price_of_armadyl_the/ 😭

[rain fulcrum]

Ok I get what you meant now

Making ToA easier crashed the uniques? I'm so surprised...

[hasty shard]

cant wait to see the andies rocking around with arma and pegs again

😭

[dark sluice]

farming kree is a gigantic pain in the ass it doesnt suprise me one bit

[timber drift]

Ignore the decimal comment except on purple chance weighting is 1 in X per purple like you see in the wiki

posting for @hallow musk idk what all this shit means

i just click boss

[hallow musk]

Thank you @timber drift

[small anvil]

i object to the representation of things in 1 in X

it is just so bad for understanding the weightings at a glance grrr

[stuck mauve]

you want things represented in 10% luck and 20% skill?

i.e. percentages?

[small anvil]

Giving the inverse of the number that matters is annoying!

yes

if you're doing a graph especially haha

[hallow musk]

Yeah I agree, it was just easier figure out and matches how the wiki shows it. I have the raw % per raids as well

[small anvil]

Yeah, its not an actual shot at your work stod haha

i just dislike bad representations of data

and i had to share it out loud

[hallow musk]

Yeah it was more for me and I was answering the question, "how many purples do I need to get at 450 invo to get a shadow now?"

And what is the purple chance at that invo lvl?

[bright ermine]

Sorry if you answered this already but can you elaborate on this? In a previous comment you said the highest threshold is 500 invo. So is this comment referring to weight scaling or just increased purp chance from a higher invo (not just points from more hp)?

[rare grotto]

yes i'm a modern day ironman

give me my mega rares

immediately.

[stuck mauve]

what's your offer

[hallow musk]

Seems like the weighting tops out at 500 (at 1 in 15.85) and purple chance would scale similarly to what I showed above but no more weighting shift

But yeah not sure if it's just purple chance increasing due to HP or actual change in how points are looked at

But my guess, the trend line is basically just a linear line for purple chance so my guess is there is no weird scaling effects anymore. After 300 it might just be more points

[timber drift]

wen monke hp fix

[ember token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1167622864661389373.gif?size=48&name=mario_drops_it&quality=lossless

[hasty shard]

hooooly

1

[meager flame]

its an update for people who avoid doing the correct things

someone that actually goes and gets a hasta doesn't give a shit

its the people who sit there and whine that they dont have a hasta and won't learn to do kril in a couple hours tops

that benefit

i dont really like updates like that because the situation was already solved

all they're really doing is knocking the reason people might want to go to gwd

[minor whale]

It's a benefit in that pre-fang 300s are pretty fucking awful but also feel like you should be doing them because of how much better they are

Very minor bridging of the gap but if you get this before fang in sub-300s

Then it lets you more easily approach a 300 without fang

And it's waaaaaaaay faster because it's like a 1/15 or something

I don't know the exact number they changed the gems to

[meager flame]

ya its just that the hasta already handled that

all they really did was say you know what

[dark sluice]

yep. we are in the same exact situation that we were before. nothing has really improved on the massive stab gap in toa. the fights might feel better without it since they cut the balls off the bosses but the fang is still absolutely cracked compared to any other option

[meager flame]

have a nicer time just not going to zammy

[hasty shard]

weren't they gonna make gems easier to obtain or something

like 'do x funny thing and get gem guaranteed' or w/e

[minor whale]

Eh
I've seen plenty of people who struggle with the hasta to be doing adequate damage for decent drop rates in teams
This'll push the needle slightly more their way

The raid sucks but I don't think the gem is really some problematic addition

[meager flame]

i think it just subtracts from the journey in a bad way

because its a hasta skip if your goal is toa

just do toa to do more toa

instead of do a variety of content

[hasty shard]

gwd is insanely hard and impossible dont you know

this is why we need oathplate and blood moon or w/e 😭

[dark sluice]

its a .2 dps upgrade that invalidates the hasta even further without actually addressing the massive dps gap between fang and not, which was the entire point of the weapon being added

its not a problematic addition so much as its a if this is what you wanted to add why did you even do it

[hard axle]

Voidwaker on stab

[meager flame]

it would be different if the hasta had like huge usages outside of toa but its kind of just fading away to being that thing you go get once you get a hydra claw drop much later

[hasty shard]

if its literally .2 dps dif i genuinely dont know why they added it over making blue gem work on all toa mobs

[hard axle]

Mfers will do anything to avoid the wilderness and cry about no middle ground

[modest nest]

is it just me or does the monkey room change feel miserable

at least in solo toa

[hard axle]

I’m not even kidding btw, voidwaker on stab IS the middle ground

[dark sluice]

I have a voidwaker. its worse than hasta why would I stab

[hasty shard]

oh right its a stab whip lol

[hard axle]

[meager flame]

clearly you should just

[hard axle]

Is it really worse?

[meager flame]

go do sire and get an abyssal dagger

[dark sluice]

its weaker than a whip and less stab bonus than a hasta

it is a smidge weaker yes

[hasty shard]

hasta has +15 acc, -5 str vs vw

[meager flame]

(pls dont do this)

[hasty shard]

hasta also has defenses which definitely matter yes

hey i pulled abby dagger after like 180 sire first unsired

accessible

[hard axle]

So 1 max hit higher, but 15 less acc

Maybe I’m tripping

[hasty shard]

this is toa we're talking about 15 acc is probably 1 dps diff 😭

[meager flame]

for toa specifically the accuracy is going to be a thing

[hard axle]

Rapier 350s Akkha was painful , I know that

but hmmm

Okay I’m probably wrong about this

Carry on

[dark sluice]

I spent a lot of time desperately looking for a way that it makese sense to main the vw. trust its just not a s good

[hard axle]

I still think blue gem should’ve been buffed in lieu of black gem

so it would function beyond toa

[hasty shard]

if you were a summer sweep up change which one would you be
shark bait
amascut partisan
kree seed nerf

[dark sluice]

I want to drip out with my ironman spoonwaker very badly but it just not as good

[hard axle]

Penisy partisan

[hasty shard]

noted

[meager flame]

im ngl the more midgame and middling gear we do

the less i support it

[hard axle]

Bro, shark lure is so shit

[hasty shard]

ik!!

[ember token]

shark lure is just overdesigned, could've copy and pasted diabolic worms but made it work on sharks

[hasty shard]

reminder we're getting the dual wield stab item added with a grand total of 0 use cases

[meager flame]

i dont even feel like they're really getting niches a lot of the time now

they're just replacing already existing gear

that filled the niches lol

[hasty shard]

at least ive not had anyone tell me an actual use case

[dark sluice]

still wondering about this one. the other two nagua weapons are at least servicable at pm. the new stab weapon will be actively bad at eclipse

[hard axle]

Yep, we’ve been saying this shit since 2019 and more foldk that finally reach the same level are feeling the same now

[meager flame]

well you see when nylos 3.0 comes out

and they're stab weak

[hasty shard]

and its DEFINITELY not a toa weapon lol

[meager flame]

you'll be thankful for the random double hit stab thing

[hasty shard]

if its like magically one handed double hit that might be neat

but then thats just sort of unpolled lol

[meager flame]

jagex tends to also create the target for new items a lot of the time with the same update

so i wouldn't be surprised if the update that adds it also comes with its use case

[hasty shard]

the new naguas

[meager flame]

this time they drop afk mining exp orbs

[hasty shard]

and maybe crab boss idfk

[meager flame]

and give bonus melee exp

[hasty shard]

designing content where the niche is a single weapon

cough huey cough

[hard axle]

I really don’t like how to don’t just default to allowing old items fuse to newer items when they know the newer items will impact the older ones

[hasty shard]

or the inverse, designing a weapon with a single niche cough crush tank demonbane cough

[hard axle]

Powercreep is more of an accessibility and economic issue since even balance oriented folks like me are okay with the final combination of stats if you make players go get both items

[hasty shard]

just one more midgame ranged set bro trust me it'll fix progression just one more midgame range set

mixed + black + blessed + karils + huey + eclipse
probably + masori

• crystal

also applies to ranged weapons at this point tbh

draining seeing suggestion posts for redwood bows when we basically have it fourfold at this point

venator/scorching/atlatl/webweaver

[dark sluice]

I need something 4t that is as good as a bowfa

cause im 1600 dry at cg and im going insane

[tired bluff]

Cg is disgusting

[dark sluice]

so maybe we could just stick that on the sidegrade docket

[tired bluff]

Gg

[hasty shard]

blowpipe i mean scorching is statwise better than bowfa iirc

you just dont get crystal armour bonus

[rare grotto]

yes now ur getting it

this is why ironman mode was a mistake

[dark sluice]

they should delete ironman mode and re-enable the old trade limits instead

game would be perfect

[hard axle]

Ironman mode is just clogging for unreliable folks

who can’t handle self imposed restrictions

[true talon]

I thought the amascut gem was like a mini fang, not a hasta replacement lol

[dark sluice]

you would think. I was thinking they would give it the outside toa fang effect or something and make it only work inside toa

[true talon]

I expected it to have the same passive as fang but inside toa

[meager flame]

i dont think that really has anything to do with irons though

like sure if it was filling a huge gap where they couldn't really do much that made sense

those are i think iron updates

like bowfa

but lol

the hasta was already accessible and there

its just kinda

dumb

generally how i look at it is if it adds more steps to the process or reasons to go do different things its probably good

if its just reducing the steps or making them mean a lot less and replacing another step

its probably not a good idea

[hard axle]

yep and before some dumbass says kril is inaccessible

scorching bow

[rare grotto]

lol u underestimate irons

[meager flame]

yeah you dont even need the scorching bow too you just gotta not be ass and do altar door

[rare grotto]

i've literally had ppl cry about zhasta in wdr ecause they don't wanna do the grind

[meager flame]

but the scorching bow is good because its optional and extra content to go do if you want to

[rare grotto]

all this stuff is catered to piss casual irons

[meager flame]

the one thing bad about scorching bow from tds

is that it kinda allows people in that didn't already get filtered by getting bowfa

because zspear is a super easy grind

and its only going to get much harder

i think the 1 in 400 for bowfa kind of sets the tone for people in a good way

because it shows them that if you do spend the time you will get something that lets you do a lot of stuff

[rare grotto]

guess who complains about bowfa when they go dry, and they start asking for backwards solutions like being able to convert x amount of armour seeds for it

[meager flame]

yeah its the first real climb for irons

where they find out if they're really going to play the mode or not

its definitely not the hardest but it takes long enough to kind of cull the weak lol

[rare grotto]

yeah but it ends up "culling" the majority of irons and then all they do is complain

and we end up with a lot of updates trying to appease this population

and it's never enough

[hard axle]

reminder ironscape literally banned posts from shitter irons complaining about it while not even being dry

[meager flame]

i do feel bad for the occasional person where it actually gets insane