like hong kong taiwan singapore south korea and japan are all places where its pretty normal to see servers for games it just really depends on if they think there are enough people to make it make sense
#game-update
meager flame
and honestly
you kind of need to hit at least a couple of those
asia is a pretty big place so if you just randomly said okay tokyo or something is where our server is going to be
a lot of asia is getting a terrible ping to that
would be like only having us east servers but worse lol
hard axle
asia is a pretty big place so if you just randomly said okay tokyo or something ...
I swear Japan is crazy expensive to host big games iirc, but Singapore would be decent (just lack of space)
summer remnant
I mean this is definitely a big assumption because they absolutely have enough South American players to justify servers there and they didn't do anything about it
small anvil
If you look at the list of countries it's English speaking ones (and Germany). they might have actually maintained a physical presence for those servers
And didn't the German servers use to be hosted in UK anyway?
summer remnant
The thing is as well its a self fulfilling prophecy
If you have no servers in certain regions, you're less likely to have players in those regions, and then the case can be made that you don't need servers in those regions
icy relic
prime pivot
If any Jmods read this, we need to rework brewing. I've been brewing since 2006 and while I understood then why it was the way it was back then, it's horrifically out dated. It shouldn't take up to 5 days of IRL time to do a cooking mini-game, I propose looking more into it; perhaps as a cooking solution to break the monopoly of potions. Some of them already give decent buffs, it's just the process for it hasn't changed in nearly 2 decades.
Would also be the foothold we need to get trouble brewing revived.
Again, amazing sailing content potential.
final frigate
Calling it brewing is criminal
analog crow
When you say brewing I think of like Chef’s Delight (m) etc
silver steeple
Are we ready for Yama fixes part 543 for this weeks 'update' 
prime pivot
Calling it brewing is criminal
i call it a waste of time mostly
true talon
Are we ready for Yama fixes part 543 for this weeks 'update' <:letsfuckingGOOO:9...
Maybe base yama can get some love....
silver steeple
Maybe base yama can get some love....
I'd love to see something else instead of ANOTHER week of yama changes.
meager flame
lmao honestly they better not
true talon
I'd love to see something else instead of ANOTHER week of yama changes.
Id like to see somewthing else besids contract yama changes XD
Base yama did nothing wrong
7 shards till complete freedom
warm storm
7 shards till complete freedom
this might be the worst yama log i've seen, gz
true talon
its not the worst, but its up there
right now im on umm 679 kills since my last unique
silver steeple
man fuck yama 
its all we have been hearing the last weeks
silver steeple
nobody cares how many contracts it took for you to get radiant 
lets get some finally dawn going already...
true talon
All the contracts ive accumlated in 1707 kills
silver steeple
see nobody cares
true talon
honesly 30 attempts at each one is kinda shit lol
hasty shard
its enough for radiant tbh
true talon
Ya prob, the boss fights dont look much harder than a normal mage kill
hasty shard
but thats only cause you got shit luck 
true talon
Prob shoulda cheesed attune when i could lol
hasty shard
yeah now its a normal MELEE kill 😱
true talon
Ehh its not a normal melee kill, its a jedi kill 😦
or i guess you can donofly it? i havnt looked at it since it was cheesed it lol
hasty shard
donofly pretty sure
i dont actually know 
there's 100% a fly method because there's one for sensory clouding
true talon
I guess i got the prayer gear and if i wanted i can flinch it dodging waves and killing jellies and voidwaker specing it in p3 till it died
hasty shard
true
true talon
the range method turned it into a normal mage kill but using range
untill it got low enough to voidwaker lol
hasty shard
i wish the bolt cheese WAS the contract tbh
true talon
I dont support nerfing strategies the players come up with to defeat the boss. thats kind of what runescape is known for.
and it shows a certain bias
prime pivot
I dont support nerfing strategies the players come up with to defeat the boss. t...
ive played this game for 20+ years, and that is 100% the spirit of RS
someone finds a way, and that way becomes teachable to others, and mileage may vary
true talon
Yep, dunno what kind of bull shit they pulling with this is not the intended way, so we are nerfing it. thats a road down awful development ngl. its same approach other games take were your forcing players to play how you want and not how they want.
Im sure this is minor, but those type of decisions do ruin games at their core. osrs will always be a game about being in the world and making your own game, over the game dictating what you will do.
prime pivot
yeah they add up over time and sterilize the player-run ecosystem
true talon
Examples of unintended mechanics taking down bosses.
- tick eating jad/all of fight caves (this is clearly not how the fight was meant to go)
- doing mirror image at duke by afking with veng an recoils (this prob is true for every boss who can be recoiled)
- Turning corp into a chicken (corp was never intended to be soloed and was one of the first group bosses in the game that broke past the 255 hp limit)
- red-x baba, butterfly ahhka, skull skipping (baba was intended to be fought head on with supply usage and dealing with her mechanics, ahhka was meant to be pray/gear swap encounter, skulls and insanity was meant to be tick perfect clicks or else you die)
Nerfing a unintended way of doing something, because it goes against your design of the boss is ego and wanting control.
restive siren
the difference between butterflying or skullskipping and cheesing the contract is that the first two are arguably more difficult than doing it the normal way, you butterfly to save supplies and skullskip to get more points
same thing with tick eating shit
they dont mind if players come up with a clever and challenging way to save supplies or increase speed
thats why they didnt fix the fly methods
cheesing the one of the 10 contracts that is by design to be purely meleed by ranging it and ignoring basically all mechanics is not in the same category
and yeah imo it should not be possible to kill awakened duke with recoils either, thats dumb
true talon
and yeah imo it should not be possible to kill awakened duke with recoils either...
I dunno if anyone has attempted to do this, but its prob possible lmao
true talon
Ruby bolt?
I mean this is why aspirational content fails. because no1 can decide on what it should and shouldnt be. most players want to conquerer it an move on. how you go about that goal is for you to discover or wait for someone else to do it an you copy it.
pretty sure i just watched 2 hcim do bloody blows, one just tanked the flares by hitting them low while staying high hp and using lots of brews. other tried to stay low hp doing the fight intended and one is alive and the other isnt.
velvet orchid
there's 100% a fly method because there's one for sensory clouding
There is not.
Method is to no fly
Which is a method you can utilize over the flys for extra dps in regular but isn't brain off
hasty shard
*100% a fly method but probably not labbed out yet
restive siren
I mean this is why aspirational content fails. because no1 can decide on what it...
i dont see most aspirational content in osrs as a failure
and yeah 99% of the playerbase of any online game will wait until a "meta" is figured out, thats just how gamers are nowadays
there is basically nothing devs can do to remedy that
sacred skiff
Cuz bird snare trapping sucks and that’s the only way to get the feathers to catch them, probably
true talon
Cuz bird snare trapping sucks and that’s the only way to get the feathers to cat...
Does anyone even bird snare lol
oh right you use the rainbow feathers to catch the rainbow fish
shrewd leaf
Thoughts on a new skilling item for crafting, something that allows you to hold 27 gold/silver bars or 27 of each gems to be able to craft a full inv of jewelry instead of 13
true talon
Dobbi is free elf (7 shards from done)
torpid delta
funniest way it could have ended, nice
true talon
funniest way it could have ended, nice
actually ironic being 1 shard drop from done lol
torpid delta
absolutely in character for yama tbh
true talon
ya my 5th helm was off a 407 dry streak and then this last piece was off a 694 one
kinda brutal
But that goes to show how good a boss yama is
i didnt really hate the grind or anything, its loot was interesting enough. i feel dossier is to common now and it takes away from rolling lockboxes/shards. also lockbox loot needs to be adjusted. dunno why it has 2 d dart rolls a d skirt roll an d leg roll.
hard axle
Dobbi is free elf (7 shards from done)
Could’ve been done 500 kills ago 
true talon
Could’ve been done 500 kills ago <:COPIUM:925898490909974598>
Facts, i didnt want to take advantage of the 200 shards from 4 helms lol. but also i didnt expect to go that long without a roll. it is what it is.
As i said the boss is great and aether catalyst/worms are still in need
now i get to spend 100m and few hours at soul altar restocking souls and making aether runes lol
plain prawn
@carmine ferry with all due respect, i am still suffering from high ping in US servers after the recent announcement of reduction in US ping. I was originally playing on US West with 40 ping, but now i am seeing a spike of constant 60-70 ping. could we get your help to reexamine this issue?
civic ginkgo
I lost my 9 tbows and 13 3rd age pickaxes to the ping
true talon
40 to 60 ping is not a big deal...
civic ginkgo
It is when you're used to 20 (it's not but still)
willow stirrup
us west still the same, hasn't changed 😦 60 ping used to be 20
civic ginkgo
I'll do it if I have to, but I hate not having 20 ping
hard axle
40 to 60 ping is not a big deal...
It’s more the instability. The plugin might only be reading 20-40 ping higher, but it can be substantially worse in terms of gameplay due to occasional jitters.
true talon
us west still the same, hasn't changed 😦 60 ping used to be 20
odd my ping on west is 75 and im east coast
wind cobalt
US west here - used to 30, idling at 50-60 now
@carmine ferry
playable still for sure just thought id check in and let ya know its not 100% resolved
true talon
I guess 50-60 on your home ping seems kinda high yea, considering im east an getting close to that on west worlds.
anything below 200 is pretty playable, long as i dont got to aussy worlds lol
Get much worst lag than ping when on worlds with over 1k people. i feel that technology should be improved to allow more people on worlds and maybe have less overall worlds
sharp olive
can confirm, its not fixed. Still up to 65 ping from 29 before the change. Still spiking to 115. West coast is one of the largest demographics on the game, there's not a lot of business sense in downgrading such a large subset of the community's experience like this. If stuff like this is the type of experience we get from the price increase in january, then its time for another long break for my sub.
craggy wind
Gremlin characters when, Jagex?
meager flame
i mean its probably not even the servers themselves
you guys are probably just getting routed through a datacenter or extremely nearby hop of some sort that is having issues
and jagex is just sitting there waiting for some other people to fix the problem
since it has nothing to do with them
small anvil
The entire west coast is having issues, I haven't seen a single person on West Coast not have the issue lol
It's not just a local hop
meager flame
thats kind of how you know its local though
small anvil
I mean depends what you mean by local then
meager flame
like im east coast and my ping to west is ~54
meager flame
so if you're west and its more than that
obviously something between you and the server is wrong
meager flame
yeah and people are now being routed through something at some point thats struggling
small anvil
But the more likely thing is a routing thing
Or just a distant point for no good reason
meager flame
but if you come from the opposite side its not happening so its kind of
unlikely to be a jagex problem
small anvil
I don't think it's a widespread thing
People aren't saying internet is slower for all things
It is something between us and the jagex server
That specifically routes our traffic through this spot
hard axle
When East Coast was having issues for 6+ weeks in the past, I just adopted the UK ping brainrot
small anvil
So it's likely something to do with the provider jagex is using
hard axle
Now I can’t play on sub 90 ping
true talon
like im east coast and my ping to west is ~54
yea same
hard axle
meager flame
it took me a long time to get over that
i played on uk worlds for like
lol idk 10 years probably
small anvil
Basically people are just saying it's not fixed
meager flame
so when i started using east worlds instead it felt worse to me to not lag
true talon
Normally if i avoid any world without 1k+ people
then the game doesnt have much lack of responsiveness
when we reach worlds with 1500-1900 people then its beyond terrible
no matter what ping that world shows
meager flame
i just hate that osrs runs on like
apparently the smallest of margins
they turn the world i usually use into a themed world
instantly the world is ass
true talon
If the game grows more an every world is nearing 2k people then uhhh it will be literally unplayable no matter the ping
meager flame
it starts getting to like 50% capacity
true talon
and i fear thats a problem
meager flame
bad ticks regularly if not constantly
yeah idk why the worlds aren't just hard locked to like
700 players total
they can't run 2k
true talon
I dunno if you ever went to a world event on world of warcraft were there is 1000 people in a single area
but its beyond impossible to do anything
meager flame
ya thats normal on wow you just show up to some random zone with everyone else hitting a world boss or something
nothing makes sense
luckily though it doesn't matter in that game world content isn't real
true talon
Ya so they use instanced zones for the places the game amtter like raid/pvp
but in open world if you get a massive ammount of people the game will just lock up lol
meager flame
i actually dunno what jagex can even do about it
im pretty sure every time they add more content to the game the point where extra players starts being too many extra players will keep getting lower
hard axle
meager flame
unless they upgrade servers again
previously before they did it the last time if you started to pass 500 players it started getting not so good
now that doesn't happen till around 1k
true talon
They normally just add more worlds
I understand why there is so many worlds as it was a system designed before instancing existed, so having to many people competeing for resources was bad.
i remember the days of fighting bots for yew tree's lol
You see this happen in events like leagues and dmm, were the hot spots are just overcrowded
meager flame
jagex kind of needs sharding i think
since that would imply they figured out how to use multiple servers together and seamlessly juggle players between them instead of just expecting what im assuming to be the one individual world to just
handle everything every npc player etc
hasty shard
theres shared instances between servers for stuff like big chinchompa in rs3
olive violet
Do we know when the Duke changes go live?
restive siren
no
true talon
They are part of summer sweep, we expect these to be sprinkled throughout the summer and after delves (long as delves don’t got the same issue contract Yama had) were it took a month to fix.
Much like how poll 84 got sprinkled in the upcoming weeks leading up to Yama
minor patio
any ETA when summer sweep up part 1 polls will be out? im really excited for the changes
chrome lantern
No poll
rustic marlin
The entire west coast is having issues, I haven't seen a single person on West C...
Can confirm I used to have consistent <20ms now its never below 60
West and East feels horrible, I used to have high ping to UK but stable and even that is inconsistent now
UK was consistent ~130 but now its consistent 160+
60ping is whatever for most folks but if I'm doing high level content and trying to do a lot of actions in a tick those 40ms matter
south wave
They definitely need to upgrade their servers it's been bad for months and months it almost makes one want to stop subbing for membership
rustic marlin
So going from 17ms to 60ms+ is a much worse experience
south wave
Can't tell me they don't have the money for the upgrades either lol with how much memberships gone up
chrome lantern
Having played on both 20 ping and 100 ping before
There's not really a difference for gameplay
Anything under like 120 is the same
Even for like raids, inferno, etc.
rustic marlin
doing a 6 way gear swap in 1tick you will feel the difference beteween 20 and 100
chrome lantern
I truly don't
south wave
It's more server lag and dead click issues which have been a problem for ages too
rustic marlin
its 80ms less that you have to do whatever actions you were doing theres no way that there is 0 difference
over the course of several hours it will make a difference
chrome lantern
Not really, server reliability and consistency is way more important than ping below like 120 ping
true talon
Having played on both 20 ping and 100 ping before
It’s because the average human reaction time is 220 ms and they are being over dramatic
chrome lantern
Your reaction speed isn't really going to make a difference between 20 or 90 ping
If the server is unreliable/inconsistent? Absolutely noticeable.
small anvil
Do you start clicking gear before the XP drop
chrome lantern
That's what the issues have actually been
small anvil
In high ping
chrome lantern
Having played the game when ToA release
rustic marlin
for nylo boss you have to react
true talon
They are already reacting on over 200 ping so the servers being 20 or 60 don’t make a difference. You won’t feel ping until 300+
chrome lantern
And living in several different places
I've dealt with both server and ping difference
true talon
I've dealt with both server and ping difference
Facts lmao toa release man was so bad
chrome lantern
And literally I would just play on UK worlds because even though I had 95 ping, it felt the exact same and servers were way more stable which was overwhelmingly more important
I didn't notice a difference at all between 60 and 95 ping
true talon
Had to turn insanity off in solos due to skull yellow clicks
chrome lantern
Nor do I notice a difference now being on 25 ping east coast
When I go to UK worlds
south wave
The majority of the east coast servers are so unreliable its insane
rustic marlin
Regardless of your opinion on what is playable ping west coast had better ping and its worse now
chrome lantern
The majority of the east coast servers are so unreliable its insane
They were good for a while
rustic marlin
There's no reason for a paying customer to have 60ms ping to a west coast server from the west coast
true talon
It’s a uk game so yea
I’m sure Asian players are having it worst
Aussie worlds are terrible as well
true talon
There's no reason for a paying customer to have 60ms ping to a west coast server...
Ngl but paying to play the game is not entitlement to perfect service
rustic marlin
If I told my commercial clients "sorry your servers have 40ms worse connection for a reason i can't figure out" im getting fired
true talon
60ms is not actual ping issue
rustic marlin
Yes its a routing issue
true talon
They said it’s isp routing issue and are working on it
rustic marlin
Okay as long as they're tracking it I'm happy
I just saw the update this morning and I was like thats not fixed xd
rustic marlin
Said mostly fixed
no?
true talon
Should be does not mean is, it means it’s expected to be resolved. In fact if they said nothing, don’t even think people would notice.
rustic marlin
We are aware that some players saw increased ping and performance drops over the weekend, especially on US worlds.
This was due to some temporary ISP routing gremlins :troll:
Everything should be resolved now - we apologise for any inconvenience
"everything"
true talon
Key word is should
true talon
Yes that’s often the case with networking or computer systems in general
Same like your isp will say “we think it’s resolved”
Meanwhile you got no service still
south wave
They were good for a while
They have been unreliable for me and my friend group for months half the time we opt for west coast or UK worlds now
vestal jetty
Yep, dunno what kind of bull shit they pulling with this is not the intended way...
It’s sad that the developers became such unaware of how real osrs was or should be. I guarantee none of them even know how osrs was played back in the days, ud go for weeks killing to even get a whip drop. Now one kid complains on reddit about yama drops and they change it. It’s really annoying for people who spend time only to know jagex make changes to ruin it all.
They seem to care only about few opinions and instead of polling it for the player base they rather take notice of one or two reddit complains and make changes according to that.. its sad but thats how it seems they are doing it.
For this summer you will probably see yama changes once a week.
minor whale
It’s sad that the developers became such unaware of how real osrs was or should ...
You mean when they made Yama drops more difficult to get because people said it was too fast?
That seems like they're doing a good job of making things not too easy to get (even though shit is still too easy to get at Yama)
vestal jetty
You mean when they made Yama drops more difficult to get because people said it ...
Its still too easy. The boss itself is nothing like a boss that they advertised.
P1 and P2 you basically run in a circle pretty much hitting and not doing anything else.
P3 is you step around 3 tiles the whole game play. Like players with 50mil bank are farming this boss easily.
From all the hype they put into advertisements and all the hype about yama is coming to osrs ect, and what we got is completely two different things. People with no bossing experience are farming it, its just too easy
true talon
Its still too easy. The boss itself is nothing like a boss that they advertised....
uhhh this is false, the boss is not to easy and the drops are not to common. no1 with 50m is farming this boss easily as it takes atleast 1 synpase which is current 50m. without the supporting gear of max mage.
it might be to easy for those in giga max but its def a challenging boss.
limber briar
Can agree that the boss is very easy to do/learn but does have a high skill ceiling to do well/fast/contracts
true talon
All the difficulty is in p3
and most that difficult has been invalidated by nofly dps methods
because the boss dies, before he spawns jellies or double waves
limber briar
whats the hard part dodging left/right/diagonal/up/down? dodging the fire wave? clicking void flare?
true talon
whats the hard part dodging left/right/diagonal/up/down? dodging the fire wave? ...
There are some nasty overlaps with waves, falling fireball dodges and dealing with voidflares. the boss is on the difficult of basically vard/whisperer.
limber briar
personally feel like vard/whisperer are harder than base yama alot of similarities in skill needed but still easier
hard axle
There are some nasty overlaps with waves, falling fireball dodges and dealing wi...
if you actually did contracts, you'd know there's non-nofly dodges that skip waves + fireballs 
and its even easier in base yama because the waves aren't shifted over 1 tile east/west
it's how i practiced p3 for contracts in normal solos
hard axle
hard axle
inviting u to the server
true talon
if you actually did contracts, you'd know there's non-nofly dodges that skip wav...
yes i know there are no fly method fixes in place for contract yama, we are talking about base yama.
hard axle
yes i know there are no fly method fixes in place for contract yama, we are talk...
no dude
I'm saying there's non-nofly dodges
for BASE yama
read please
limber briar
hard axle
it's literally as easy as standing on a start tile, click to skip tile
and you dodge 2/3 bombs + ALL waves
and have ample time to change prayers/hit flares
true talon
You mean the gregfly or are you talking about the 3 tick emberlight
hard axle
no....
it's not a no-fly method
u dumb nuts
it's literally mage-only
it's literally up your alley
but you just never did it
and instead are saying how nofly methods are skill-less, but mage skip methods are jsut as braindead
rain fulcrum
There are some nasty overlaps with waves, falling fireball dodges and dealing wi...
The boss was advertised as being harder than those
I actually think vard has more kill poten than yama
hard axle
awakened vard had 10x more kill potential than contract yam
limber briar
but..but...but what if your teammate doesn't save you from meatball!
hard axle
you know why contract yama is considered easier?
it's because it's the same boss
fundamentally
if you never did DT2 bosses prior to awakeneds, you had to learn 4 whole new bosses to get blorva
limber briar
sensory causes cancer
hard axle
You mean the gregfly or are you talking about the 3 tick emberlight
I'm going to assume you aren't being stupid as always, but this is what you do for BASE YAMA to trivialize p3
limber briar
yo @hard axle did you see the jmods doing yama stream/vid on yt?
hard axle
but..but...but what if your teammate doesn't save you from meatball!
erm ackshually, why aren't you meatball skipping
hard axle
yo <@213072072472133633> did you see the jmods doing yama stream/vid on yt?
too busy with my own shit
stable ruin
Hi, understand I'm a bit late to the party and I'm not here trying to start an argument as I understand it's a touchy subject, but I as a player was extremely pleased to see Jagex taking a stance and keeping real world political issues out of the game. Just wanted to pass on my support - Great work Jon!
frail bough
I'm going to assume you aren't being stupid as always, but this is what you do f...
instructions unclear, based yama is contract yama
obsidian venture
Ahhh
true talon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsIidXlzf8k
the comentary is questionable
Mark of darkness running out mid p3 is actually peak
wonder if they will start with oh yea mark of darkness is shit, maybe we should get rid of it.
chrome lantern
Mark of Darkness never should've existed
The original implementation was even worse than what we have now
Where you had to land a spell with garbage accuracy on every target you wanted to fight with demonbane
zenith pike
Where you had to land a spell with garbage accuracy on every target you wanted t...
i enjoyed it at cms when I was harm-less
chrome lantern
For what
zenith pike
crabs
chrome lantern
Mark of darkness?
meager flame
Personally I cant believe they made it lol
zenith pike
mark of darkness
chrome lantern
What are we using Mark of Darkness for in Crabs
zenith pike
before the crabs not having att delay for weapons
mark of darkness was the only 3t spell
meager flame
Just from my experience playing other games if you said hey let's make a minute long maintenance buff id laugh at you
zenith pike
and splashing it made the crabs come extremely quickly
warm storm
MoD is very bad and fully agree it should be removed
chrome lantern
I see
warm storm
mark of darkness was the only 3t spell
you're confused and thinking of grasp maybe?
chrome lantern
Grasp isn't 3t so nah
meager flame
Nobody has ever liked that concept in any game I've ever seen it in
zenith pike
you're confused and thinking of grasp maybe?
fuck no
meager flame
Like ever
chrome lantern
I didn't think mark was either though
warm storm
MoD isn't targeted
chrome lantern
It was
warm storm
anymore anyways. i think it was before
chrome lantern
For a long time
chrome lantern
The original implementation was even worse than what we have now
^
meager flame
Theyre just reinventing the wheel
zenith pike
old mark was 3t
meager flame
Oh the debuff is annoying to apply let's make it a buff oh people still don't like it
warm storm
timerscape is lame
meager flame
Maybe people dont like little chore buffs to reapply
Etc etc
Its literally a tale as old as time lol
chrome lantern
Oh, people don't like 1 minute timer, let's make it 5 minutes, but only with purging staff
true talon
Oh the debuff is annoying to apply let's make it a buff oh people still don't li...
its bad design esp when it causes you to die, because it ran out the moment you was hitting a flare lol
warm storm
i've gotten used to just casting it every time after i do the first staff attack
and never run out anymore
hard axle
What are we using Mark of Darkness for in Crabs
splash luring instantly so crabs would run at you
chrome lantern
Wiki indicates it was a target spell for 2 years
hard axle
timerscape is lame
:addssurgepot:
ember token
timers and cooldowns and stuff is kinda the theme of the arceuus spellbook
hard axle
turkey agrees with me on this iirc, but fuck surge pot and fuck all that fucking nonsense
meager flame
I almost feel like there should just be a little book of game design so people know about common logical loops and traps they set for themselves
It would save people tons of dev time
chrome lantern
Hmm I went to the 2021 version of the wiki and it says 5t
warm storm
wasn't its quirk that it has 0 travel time? or was that grasp
chrome lantern
Oh maybe
hard axle
Hmm I went to the 2021 version of the wiki and it says 5t
no so
when u splash
monsters INSTANTLY aggro
zenith pike
it comes immediately
chrome lantern
Ohhh I see what you're saying, it always splashes because it's not a demon
zenith pike
like all other spells
chrome lantern
Yeah
hard axle
no no
chrome lantern
Gotcha
zenith pike
no
hard axle
it splashes because -64
chrome lantern
?
hard axle
chrome lantern
Oh
zenith pike
because I would wear melee armor
zenith pike
yeah
hard axle
uhhh grasp
hard axle
does it snare?
chrome lantern
Not if you splash
warm storm
did crabs used to change color on splash? sounds nice
zenith pike
no
hard axle
i cant remember if grasp's snare is conditional on accuracy check
zenith pike
it doesn't
chrome lantern
And even if you hit it's still a probability
hard axle
did crabs used to change color on splash? sounds nice
nope
zenith pike
its a 3t instant aggro
hard axle
cant go far red
zenith pike
that's why I liked it
hard axle
meager flame
Realistically though when it comes to maintenance buffs theyre just about never well received
warm storm
well that was a fun history lesson but the current iteration is still terrible
zenith pike
meh
meager flame
Some of the tricks to get people to accept it are usually turning them into buttons that do direct damage somehow so that you're like wanting to use it
zenith pike
its just a buff timer like any other mmo more than anything
meager flame
Instead of almost forgetting it exists
They can still give the buff too but
Usually people don't like having to reapply buffs to go back to playing normally
Because mentally theyre trying to do something else but they have to stop and maintain a buff so it feels like its getting in the way
warm storm
when a buff is required to reasonably complete content it is no longer a buff. it's a requirement
at least you're fine skipping spec pot if you don't like them
meager flame
They think about it totally differently though when it directly does something better than their standard attacks
Yeah the expectation both ways is that you use it
But people's perception can be different depending on how its in the game
zenith pike
in classic wow, there are a a few buffs that are like that, like battle shout or frost barrier
meager flame
Its more akin to slice and dice
zenith pike
maybe tranq shot depending on who you ask
meager flame
Wow is the most obvious game that went through this over the years and they fully tested just what people will or will not like about maintenance buffs
Tbh
Mark of darkness is almost identical to invocation for mages from mop
And people hated that shit lol
zenith pike
i thought it was evocate
meager flame
Ya invocation was a talent that made evocation give a 1 min buff
And youd just recast every minute
zenith pike
man fuck mages anyway
still though, at 5 minutes I don't think it's necessarily bad design. I think it's the first time osrs players we're required to keep track of some sort of timer relative to themselves as opposed to being optional
meager flame
I think at 5 mins they hit a weird situation where its like
zenith pike
your thrall running out isn't terrible at most times, MoD running out means you ruined your tempo
and potentially killed yourself
meager flame
Happening so infrequently that its kind of irrelevant but feels bad when it goes wrong
chrome lantern
Maybe I posit this a different way
Would anyone ever once use a demonbane spell without Mark of Darkness on?
If the answer is no, why does Mark of Darkness exist
zenith pike
I supposed to add activity, to give it that slight differenece between other spells that effectively do and are the same thing
warm storm
if they really wanna keep it in the game i'd love to see the purging buff work from inventory at least
ember token
it should just last 5 minutes regardless of purging staff
warm storm
attack > equip purge, cast MoD, switch back to primary > attack feels so silly
meager flame
But at 5 mins they kinda took the gameplay out of it and its more like a silly way to trip once in awhile
zenith pike
it is kind of funny ngl
ember token
at 5 minutes its just something you activate with your saturated heart
meager flame
Tbh what i want jagex to do
Is make a target frame in the game so they have somewhere to put some info like
Debuff durations def lowering specs
Things you kinda need to know but currently depend on runelite for
zenith pike
something like "details!"
meager flame
Idk if they'd do that one lmao
zenith pike
or weak aura
meager flame
The toxicity would increase 10x overnight
zenith pike
I forget which one is which
meager flame
Details is the damage meter
warm storm
Overhead Notifications plugin is a pretty good bandaid fix for the timer overload that yama currently has
zenith pike
it would be useful
meager flame
Weakauras I would love id go in and we would basically have boss timers and everything else within a week
But they won't let that happen either for obvious reasons lol
warm storm
Weakauras I would love id go in and we would basically have boss timers and ever...
isn't that basically Watchdog? which is banned in pvm areas. idk i didn't play wow
meager flame
Its way stronger
Basically if you know lua and understand blizzards api for addons you can display anything in any way you want using as much logic as you can come up with
Like for example take olm teleports
I could display who has your matching color and an arrow to them or draw a line to them across your screen
Amd crazy stuff like that
Blizzard spends a lot of time breaking certain functions
vestal jetty
uhhh this is false, the boss is not to easy and the drops are not to common. no1...
You must be then a shitty player if you think this boss is not easy, you defo never done hard mode tob😂😂
hard axle
Realistically though when it comes to maintenance buffs theyre just about never ...
this shit was the worst part of button mashing mmos
buffs only lasting 8s and then having a cd of like 15s
you're literally playing UI management more than anything else
and with 70+ buff icons
true talon
Guys torva is dead. oathplate is better than torva literally everywhere with slash weps and in the best case scenario being fang its barely better than oathplate lol
Cm olm oath better, verzik p2/p3 oath better, stosegg unless 2 hammers land oaothplate better however the dps difference is so small between not landing any defense reduction specs for oathplate that you can prob just claw stosegg.
warm storm
Guys torva is dead. oathplate is better than torva literally everywhere with sla...
torva was never good value for money. and your "oathplate" calc is using torva hat
true talon
torva was never good value for money. and your "oathplate" calc is using torva h...
i know, i swapped to torva hat the oathplate helm was 7.680 dps
so you gain .120 dps if you go torva helm vs oath helm in the best case sceanrio for torva
warm storm
so you misrepresented your calc to make your point stronger?
warm storm
i agree with you that oathplate is super strong and often better than or equal to torva but lying doesn't help anyone
warm storm
saving .8s in a solo verzik p3 isn't too crazy imo
if oath invalidated torva then it deleted bella from the game lol
austere mulch
Torva should have 1 more str per piece than it does. Or at least 1 more on top bottom
true talon
if oath invalidated torva then it deleted bella from the game lol
actually oath with bella is much stronger than torva with ultor
warm storm
and oath with ultor is stronger than both
true talon
its not look at the calcs
warm storm
i'm looking at them
chrome lantern
Did you try attacking anything else or just a single raid getting .03 dps
true talon
Did you try attacking anything else or just a single raid getting .03 dps
i checked all the places id use it, being CM, TOB, Vard
warm storm
those are like, the three pieces of content that benefit most from oath lol
true talon
Then i did TOA with fang as thats only place id actually use torva
warm storm
only missing duke
velvet token
I thought oath was only bis u using slash wep if your using a fang wouldn't torva be the better option
true talon
I thought oath was only bis u using slash wep if your using a fang wouldn't torv...
it is
torva is 4% better than oathplate
with fang lol
chrome lantern
Tassili loves making claims that are partially or not even true
And then making broad unsubstantiated claims
velvet token
The price of oath u might aswell get both tbh
true talon
Tassili loves making claims that are partially or not even true
my claims are true? lol
true talon
It is other than fang content or stab content.
chrome lantern
Literally your opening argument
warm storm
you 0def two bosses at tob, making torva (slightly) better
true talon
you 0def two bosses at tob, making torva (slightly) better
you can only 0 defense maiden and 0 defense xarpus
warm storm
read
velvet token
Torva would be better option for slayer aswell wouldn't it
chrome lantern
idk if he does that whole reading thing
chrome lantern
It is other than fang content or stab content.
Do you know what the words "literally" or "everywhere" mean?
You also didn't compare Oathplate to Inq at all
Just Oathplate to Torva
So why bring up Inq
That's a true statement for some crush content but wasn't at all your claim
rain fulcrum
I'm not sure what the tob point was trying to make
Despite there being two bosses where torva is obviously better, oathplate is better in tob
Oathplate fang is lol tho
warm storm
fang is weird. i'm betting you lose minimum hits
tiny epoch
torva helm body lets u bank melee legs at toa & you only lose akkha enrage dps
its very marginal, TOO is fine
warm storm
Guys torva is dead. oathplate is better than torva literally everywhere with sla...
this calc was using salts i think
tiny epoch
salted baba 
hard axle
this calc was using salts i think
i relaly dont like wiki calc for that reason
too many hidden factors
warm storm
trustworthy people will include a link
hard axle
also tass is known to lie out the ass
hard axle
trustworthy people will include a link
my ancient ass is too used to overload calc spreadsheet
warm storm
the sheet was even worse for misrepresentation with people changing a factor then forgetting about it themselves
at least this way it's easy to check your work
hard axle
im hoping they eventually just keep prayer/gear/stats on displayed upfront
so it's even easier to see
chrome lantern
Attack style is a classic
tiny epoch
are we comparing ease of use with the spreadsheet 😅
chrome lantern
Wiki calc is good for quick RL import, spreadsheet shows more factors in one view
hard axle
are we comparing ease of use with the spreadsheet 😅
nah, just reliability of information
and also just easier to compare when you have all the factors laid out
tiny epoch
on the flipside it takes 2 seconds to open calc urself and check
vs using the spreadsheet
hard axle
on the flipside it takes 2 seconds to open calc urself and check
if u share the link and not a screenshot 
tiny epoch
even filling it out yourself from scratch is very easy & fast
true talon
if u share the link and not a screenshot <a:mhmmhm:980614291843604510>
you can do this yourself, it just proves my point. also the fang thing is funy, because oath is basically bandos + facegaurd. its just a statement to how weak torva is overall.
sacred oracle
Wiki calc is good for quick RL import, spreadsheet shows more factors in one vie...
spreadsheet is too easy to mess up for me
true talon
On slash content its a pretty big difference considering their price points
sacred oracle
there's no reset button, so you can extremely easily forget a leftover bandos spec or basically any other custom modifier between calcs
wiki has less knobs to turn and is also easier to start over from scratch because of View Dps button in rl
hard axle
you can do this yourself, it just proves my point. also the fang thing is funy, ...
or you could, you know: https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=CleaningBalmEyes
but yes, torva is weak, which is why people keep chanting for a set bonus or an outright buff
warm storm
torva has always been one of the most luxury items in the game fs
hard axle
a relic of its time
ranged gets 3-4 max hits from 1 piece or combination of 2 pieces, torva gets 1.5 max hit from 3 pieces
true talon
Melee armor in general is weak compared to mage/range
hard axle
reminder that if u fuse oathplate/torva together so that it would be torva str + oathplate accuracy, it still wouldn't compare to the likes of masori in terms of effectiveness/cost
tiny epoch
full masori is 1 bp max over dhide as well
warm storm
ranged gets 3-4 max hits from 1 piece or combination of 2 pieces, torva gets 1.5...
to be fairrrrrrrrr that's tbow scaling silliness for the most part.
like saying eternals gives shadow 2 max hits is kinda true but only because max gear is so close to the threshold w/o them
tiny epoch
tbow a bit hard to compare but
hard axle
to be fairrrrrrrrr that's tbow scaling silliness for the most part.
like saying ...
if it's not tbow scaling, it's bp scaling
which attack speed takes every max hit it gets and multiplies by 2.5x
compared to bow
melee just gets the short stick every time
warm storm
so when you say 3-4 max hits you mean 1-2 max hits, but fast?
can see how that is confusing
hard axle
reminder that if u fuse oathplate/torva together so that it would be torva str +...
guarantee if you took away either masori accuracy or masori str, the upgrade would become as minimal as bandos -> torva
needs both if minor creep
small anvil
It's also a large number of maxes when you look at tbow
Masori is 2 max iirc for full set. 2,4,2 range str
thick beacon
i agree with the notion of buffing torva for sure
esp compared to masori/ances its lacking oathplate was nail in coffin
my personal bias is buff blorva only
thick beacon
prims are + 5
small anvil
Leaving melee 1 STR behind the next max would be ok imo
Give oath it's time but also
Next str is 3 max on scy
plucky umbra
i agree with the notion of buffing torva for sure
it'll never happen, you mention nex and 90% of irons just go ballistic because they do the boss badly and lose their precious 3k brew stack
thick beacon
i think post changes nex will be very fair
but ye i do think that though tbh and its not entirely wrong
think thats definitely a partial reason ppl avoid nex duos on iron
true talon
it'll never happen, you mention nex and 90% of irons just go ballistic because t...
yama deleted 200k of my soul runes and 1.4m fire runes ontop of 3k+ p pots and some hard food. i think id rather do nex.
thick beacon
i think soul/fire runes definitely could have been avoided with meleeing
true talon
i think soul/fire runes definitely could have been avoided with meleeing
ya but then i woulda deleted 1800 sips of divine super combat
plucky umbra
[[farm run]]
ornate wolfBOT
Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Farming_runs
true talon
which is more precious than runes lol
warm storm
think thats definitely a partial reason ppl avoid nex duos on iron
i think it has more to do with wanting to relaxmax in 3-5 teams. which is fine enough, but imo you really miss out on some fun avoiding duos
thick beacon
both are free ig id rather farm more torstols personally
thick beacon
thats fair ig
true talon
Granted the kwarum and cadatine thing hasnt been a problem since i started doing lots of cms and 1+1 scaled raids.
but white berries only came from corp, once im out im out lol
thick beacon
ye u truly are out when ur forced to actually skill on iron for a single resource
true talon
so it was either blow 200k souls or waste divine combats lol. also mage was chill and it allowed long trips with my duo, while he learned gregfly for when he had to solo.
and if he died i could finish the kill with mage
warm storm
i've been leaning more towards mage only solos since they are so relaxed and you don't miss out on that much kph compared to melee thanks to the infrequent banking
thick beacon
i think for solos id lean on mage as well
true talon
I was doing a lot of gregfly and other melee methods but i didnt see a massive time increase, because p1/p2 was all the time and you needed a horn alt to eldermaul at the start.
thick beacon
but i prefer duoing cuz it just seems easier/better for me atleast
plucky umbra
I'm burnt on Yama post radiant grind, the boss just feels like its in slow motion now
warm storm
yeah i didn't use an alt, i just did bgs+sgs for melee solo
thick beacon
mostly p3 for me why i would wana mage in solo
plucky umbra
mostly p3 for me why i would wana mage in solo
p3 melee is the fun part though
thick beacon
it is ye
but solo cycle seems much harder
and i dont see much of a value eff wise soloing over duoing at all
true talon
p3 mage has some depth you can do, you can weave attacks on yama between specs on jellies. and then utilize the falling fireball tick reduction to gain ticks on yama.
warm storm
still pretty easy but yes the fireball speedups add a lot to it
plucky umbra
and i dont see much of a value eff wise soloing over duoing at all
yeah I do wish soloing were slightly better, even using a horn maul alt its still not great
and horn maul alting feels so bad, that item should never have come into the game
thick beacon
ye ive heard about that just seems like way more hassle for same/worse reward soloing
true talon
Ya horn thing is i dunno, they didnt allow it to be used solo its basically useless lol
thick beacon
i really enjoyed yama contracts though
warm storm
i'm coming at it from max str vs max mage+shadow though fwiw
true talon
Like i plan to have my friends iron with horn and oathplate use it to get a eldermaul in toa or something vs a bgs
since he dont got a spec wep
but thats about all it can do
thick beacon
yeah I do wish soloing were slightly better, even using a horn maul alt its stil...
think its good esp with all the drama duo is good for uniques even if its alot easier idk
plucky umbra
I really want someone to start a service where they feed Nex kills to irons by just using 30 horn alts
warm storm
the KCing required for that 💀
plucky umbra
then maybe jagex can think about the item for a bit
hard axle
it'll never happen, you mention nex and 90% of irons just go ballistic because t...
Just bring hard food and karambwan 
If the team knows what they're doing, you on average use like 2-4 sips of brew for emergencies only
plucky umbra
Just bring hard food and karambwan <:xdd:1303456314135154859>
If the team know...
b-b-b-but my range 5s!!1! step under is too sweaty1!!
hard axle
Most irons don't bother learning what the fuck to do and slam brews down, which actually hurts their own dps
which means boss lasts longer
which means they use more brews
true talon
I really want someone to start a service where they feed Nex kills to irons by j...
all horn spec the iron with fang/SRA lmao
Actually i made 9k brews for nex i finished at 2210 kc and i have 7k left. you mostly use hard food on 1 kill trips now
range 5 wth brews is a meme
thick beacon
what else will u do with the brews though
hard axle
Actually i made 9k brews for nex i finished at 2210 kc and i have 7k left. you m...
you've always used hard food on 1 kill trips
meager flame
Im ngl I think the biggest problem with nex is that unless you just happen to really like it
true talon
dunno, brews havnt been relevant
hard axle
they really haven't
meager flame
The content just isn't enough for the time required
hard axle
like i said, emergency only or if shit team
warm storm
zcb is the best spec weapon in the game
meager flame
The idea of one single boss that people sit at forever just doesn't work
true talon
Even colo can be done with 0 food and just spec heals
warm storm
but yeah it's end-endgame stuff like nightmare
hard axle
zcb is the best spec weapon in the game
and its only getting better as more and more bosses hp pools go up
true talon
brews are kinda whatever
meager flame
Nex just isn't interesting enough to have drop rates like it does
hard axle
brews will be game breaking when overloads are added
thick beacon
if they go with changes u prob will only need like a 3rd of the brews even for a nex duo
true talon
yea if overloads come then brews will matter again lol
hard axle
moths for 0 guthix rest healing and then brews every 15s
warm storm
Nex just isn't interesting enough to have drop rates like it does
it's as interesting as you want it to be tbqh
hard axle
you will be healing something like 100 hp per minute without losing any dps
true talon
They really coulda given mix's the guthix rest treatment
were it dont add a tick delay
meager flame
I mean not really even if you go in with the intent of doing it efficiently
thick beacon
nex has alot of nice subtle things u can do i really like it from a team dynamic as well
meager flame
It takes way longer to finish the boss than it does to get over it and need some new content
hard axle
They really coulda given mix's the guthix rest treatment
barb mix?
true talon
Yea
hard axle
or sunlight mix
true talon
i was using them at yama, they basically suck lol
true talon
the barb mix shouldnt have a tick delay
small anvil
Restore mix would be so sick
true talon
when you drink it
hard axle
small anvil
Without eat delay
true talon
its just a worst guthix rest
hard axle
it shouldnt need a delya
meager flame
Jagex just keeps trying to stretch their single boss fight encounters way too far
hard axle
I definitely don't have 100k caviar/roe in the bank
small anvil
If you had a full inv of mixes it would replace hard food tho
warm storm
they would be used everywhere you use potions if they didn't have a delay
meager flame
Legit just time filler game design
small anvil
An inventory of hard food / pray half and half could be replaced with full mixes
The real money in yama would be the supply drops then
thick beacon
megarares take way more time though tbh like if we sign up as irons its super hard to upkeep
imagine when they add raids 4
meager flame
Yeah that's the thing though raids are several bosses
And way more interesting
One boss cant extend like that
warm storm
i think it's okay that the boss with 5 (arguably 6) BIS items takes a long time to complete. the droptable overloading is a valid complaint but a bit late for that
meager flame
I think its not really okay that's just two back to back mistakes
thick beacon
i like raids but i think non raid content is great to
warm storm
it has more bis than tob for reference lol
true talon
megarares take way more time though tbh like if we sign up as irons its super ha...
The only mega rare hard to up keep on iron is tbow, because we dont got a dragon arrow farming method. souls/bloods for the other weps are easy to craft/come by now due to scar ess.
meager flame
Yeah but that doesn't give the green light to do two dumb things
That just means that they cant design drop tables for multiple reasons
warm storm
amethyst arrows are fine for tbow and don't take too long. technically it's "efficient" to just use rune arrows you get as drops but i don't mind afk mining
thick beacon
The only mega rare hard to up keep on iron is tbow, because we dont got a dragon...
i just meant more so as content up keep. u can complete like nex 2x over by the time u complete a tbow basically
true talon
amethyst arrows are fine for tbow and don't take too long. technically it's "eff...
i know this, but your not using your mega rare to it max potential if you do this.
warm storm
do you have a tbow / do you use only dragon ammo in it?
true talon
i do not use dragon ammo with mine outside of high end content like inferno
meager flame
Tbh
thick beacon
The only mega rare hard to up keep on iron is tbow, because we dont got a dragon...
wish they added a scar mine for darrows some way
cuz rn its free to use or use dammo
meager flame
When jagex said nex rates need to be awful look how much loot this is
That should've made them stop right there
Biggest red flag ever lol
thick beacon
its like 1/43 u can see drop at nex pretty quickly
true talon
wish they added a scar mine for darrows some way<:sadge:1199756534511579298> cu...
I dont need scar ess arrow, i just would like some way to farm them like we got for ameythst, even if its like 1k arrows an hour.
warm storm
i use dragon ammo any time contribution matters for loot or i'm going for speeds or CAs
true talon
Ameythst was a crutch made to make up for lack of rune darts/d darts on iron.
thick beacon
amethyst isint even close to dammo though
meager flame
Tbh the dragon ammo thing is dumb
true talon
ameythst is 2 max hits less than dragon arrows and this gap might get bigger with the 3 str on the new boots
meager flame
Like if its better that way
warm storm
it's what, 4 max hits in the best case scenario of void+quiver?
thick beacon
ameythst is 2 max hits less than dragon arrows and this gap might get bigger wit...
+6 str can scale very strongly
depending on meta
when vambs came out it gave 3maxes on task
meager flame
We should delete rune shops and runecrafting from wrath runes right
thick beacon
+6 str like masori body/legs
meager flame
Only pvm drop wraths
true talon
Ya people always like oh its just +6 str bonus difference, thats literally more than anguish lmao
meager flame
Sounds pretty dumb right
warm storm
there are some setups where amethyst and dragon arrows are exactly the same. ran into that at cox
meager flame
But that's what dragon ammo is
thick beacon
i just think range gets hurt artifically bad cuz not having dammo
no dbolts -20 str lol
true talon
there are some setups where amethyst and dragon arrows are exactly the same. ran...
not possible as amy has 6 str less than dragon which means it will always no matter what be 1.5 max less scaling up to 2 hits in some cases
thick beacon
u can always use full power scy/shadow but not bow
warm storm
i'll dig out the calc and include a link
true talon
no dbolts -20 str lol
Thats because we dont got runite ruby bolts
and are subjected to addy bolts for rubys which is all the power on crossbow
Difference between a addy bolt and dragon bolt is 22 range str.
Difference between a rune and a dragon bolt is 7 lol
Amy is 5 less str than dragon
rune is 11 less str than dragon
thick beacon
put it in perspective i would have same ranged str with dragon bone necklace
more with darts
true talon
ya the ammo gap is quite large when range str is hard to come by
thick beacon
just my take cuz i get ammo is pretty free using tbow is like 5kgph
or u mine amethyst or use limited dammo
idk its like if u had to get blood shards to get bis dps constantly on iron idk
true talon
I think current best methods to obtain d arrows, is to do colo runs.
which is still an RNG gamble
meager flame
I mean its just stupid because the best method is trying to get it as an incidental drop from unrelated content
thick beacon
most irons just accept dps loss
meager flame
And it feels extra dumb because we're finally getting the only major fletching update ever
true talon
Seeing yama have 2 d dart rolls in the lock box over having d arrows is like why?
meager flame
And theyre not doing anything with it lmao
true talon
And it feels extra dumb because we're finally getting the only major fletching u...
ya we get to make atlata darts 😛
meager flame
Dudes really said hold on make sure we don't do anything much here
thick beacon
anyways i was just iron coping/rambling i dont have much else to say about it
meager flame
We might get back to fletching in 2045
Need some space
Didn't even have to be dragon arrows either
I just cant believe they waited basically two decades to do a fletching update of substance and just filled it up with stuff people won't do anyways lol
warm storm
not possible as amy has 6 str less than dragon which means it will always no mat...
yeah you're totally right actually. i think i was conflating 1 piece of masori not always giving a max with the ammo
it's +5 range str over amethyst and always gives at least 1 max vs solo olm
true talon
Dudes really said hold on make sure we don't do anything much here
its because its being pitched as a early/mid game fletching update and not a skill overhaul.
I mean being able to make longbows is not something a end game player is gonna do lol
or atlata darts
chrome lantern
I plan to not do the fletching activity at all on any account
true talon
I might check it out, there is one benefit from it for my account
being able to make arrow shafts faster lol
chrome lantern
Their info wasn’t even correct on arrow shafts in the blog
They said it’s a 2t action right now but it’s 3 lol
true talon
if it dont work on arrow shafts then its useless
true talon
I have 99 fletching due to making broad arrows
but i still have to make d arrows/amy arrows for pvm
meager flame
Tbh i dont even think the rewards they did pick are bad its just not enough
true talon
ya it was the game jam idea right? with a big troll boss and stuff
chrome lantern
Oh boy you can get the knife, atlatl darts, the bowstringer 9000, and cosmetics
Wowee
meager flame
Like
true talon
Oh boy you can get the knife, atlatl darts, the bowstringer 9000, and cosmetics
hey if your a GE fletching bot this update will be huge
meager flame
What about something for people who dont want mediocre exp
chrome lantern
Also their initial pitch of the bowstring spool was extremely poor
meager flame
Why is that all that's on the table lol
true talon
i drop all my magic logs to bond alt, no way am i using those for longbows lol
true talon
i had like 100k magic logs, was no shot im processing that lol
chrome lantern
Like 18k magic longbow
dawn yarrow
I thought they fixed us worlds ping issues? I'm still getting 50-60 more ping than usual on west worlds
small anvil
it is not fixed, many people reporting the same thing
obsidian venture
you 0def two bosses at tob, making torva (slightly) better
In tob, torva is slightly better at 4/6 rooms. But the 2 rooms that you use TOO, is more impactful in terms of timesave, which is sote/verz
warm storm
yeah i wasn't saying anything about camping one or the other
obsidian venture
Yeah, I was just explaining why is all
Also wouldn’t trust Tass with calcs
He finally figured out what we knew for months 😅
chilly portal
Like 18k magic longbow
Trust me 21k for 99 fletching was bad im only likely to do fletching thing for clogs but never using it again i burnt out on fletching 2 years ago
tiny epoch
abit depressing talking to someone who gave up learning 5:1 baba because the nerfs are coming to turn it into a slayer boss
slender vapor
sacred oracle
abit depressing talking to someone who gave up learning 5:1 baba because the ner...
why is that depressing
tiny epoch
because its cool tech
its depressing that its just being made irrelevant
& that learners are choosing not to engage with it
plush gull
can u still flinch baba after the thing, i did it for my pouch
vivid ruin
thick beacon
abit depressing talking to someone who gave up learning 5:1 baba because the ner...
i did feel this buff was kinda of extreme i never learned 5 1 either
i definitely have 0 plans to now
baba is pretty fair and there are engaging strats like 5 1 to do it
worthy grove
no update today?
still sundial
usually they are on wednesdays
slim sand
I thought they fixed us worlds ping issues? I'm still getting 50-60 more ping th...
Who dat in da pic
tender harness
varlamore part 3 in a month
so that means mediocre fletching game
delves which will be who the fuck knows
minor patio
will the summer sweep up changes be before or after the varlamore update?
frail nebula
They were after Varlamore on the roadmap
plain prawn
what the fk is a delve boss
frail nebula
Though we technically already have 1 part of the summer sweep up in the game
minor patio
Though we _technically_ already have 1 part of the summer sweep up in the game
which one?
frail nebula
Sire improvements
minor patio
ah
frail nebula
They talked about that as a part of the summer sweep up back at runefest
and then released them way earlier
minor patio
They were after Varlamore on the roadmap
im hoping the sweep up as a whole is after varlamore but we get part 1 before 🙂
frail nebula
I wouldn't personally count on any big changes to the game before varlamore p3
ember token
i would expect the summer sweepup to be released across multiple updates
and i wouldnt be surprised if one of those updates was before varlamore p3
haughty halo
With almost five weeks until July 23rd, I would be pretty shocked if we didn't see part of the sweep-up before then. Although this could work two ways, sweep up could be released as "easier" updates to fill weeks up until the 23rd. Or literally the opposite, hard work on the Varlamore, no updates (except tiny ones) all the way up until 23rd, then after the 23rd as a breather, release, sweep up for a couple of weeks.
So basically 50 50 🙂 hope that helps.
restive siren
ye should come tomorrow
austere mulch
Horn is getting buffed to work with dragon claws and the unnecessary cooldown break for surge pot at tob is being reverted so that both are working as polled in the next 5 weeks 
old tinsel
Would toa update be tomorrow?
rugged hull
Would toa update be tomorrow?
That is also what I am wondering.
@vague viper is that something you may know?
old tinsel
Don’t ping the mods! Its bad drop rng for ur account
chrome surge
With delve are we forced t o group up?
knotty herald
i sure hope this new quest doesn't come with a messenger that spawns and tries to grab your attention every two minutes and is interactable by everyone else
limber briar
With delve are we forced t o group up?
90% sure its solo
vague viper
With delve are we forced t o group up?
No it's solo 🙂
chrome surge
Cool ^^
vague viper
That is also what I am wondering.
<@1170016131847831572> is that something you m...
Will need to come back to you on this as it doesn't cross into my projects and my team's finished for the day ahah
tawny tide
Will need to come back to you on this as it doesn't cross into my projects and m...
So we will find out organically tomorrow lol
vague viper
😂 basically haha sorry!
ember token
are we going to get a sailing blog or summer sweep-up part 2 this week?
chrome surge
i hope summer sweep is close, i mean its summer and my shadow is about to drop below 1b . _ .
meager flame
i mean you have to assume one of those blogs is incoming
it would be really weird to like concurrently have multiple multi step projects where its built around blog discussions that come out in parts
and then not see any of it while the discussion is basically over for the previous parts
maybe not like literally tomorrow but shortly
ngl im really happy i get at least 2 days between mop classic and varlamore part 3 though
lmao gonna need someone to pray for me that week though with the amount of gaming hours that are about to happen
chrome surge
Okay so mop was the second* expansion released after i started playing WoW
... I genuinely wonder if people have actual MoP Nostalgia or if its just a fake effect.
Like all those kids screaming Ooo i have such vivid Classic memories -> They were like 5 when classic was a thing
restive siren
well people said the same thing about vanilla classic and it still was insanely successful longterm
mop is generally regarded as one of the better expacs
i would be more worried about wod
chrome surge
Never heard that, but maybe you're in different circles
For me after cata its a line drawn downwards
but thats just my personal experience from back then
restive siren
vanilla being shit and people just being nostalgic was a very common take
chrome surge
Vanilla was funb ecause it was so grindy
You achieved 60
not 'just got it '
Just curious what people are so excited about inside of mop
i vaguely remember the lashback of the storyline, and how the sha's was just 'not it '
restive siren
well people dont care that much about the story for classic servers, everything is known
class gameplay and most raids were peak
but i think we are derailing the chat a bit
chrome surge
No exactly, so its like what is the big raid that everyone is so hyped about, pvp wasnt that great either
Monks just gonna be on top the entire season like back then
restive siren
class design was very good, a lot of players have their specs mop iteration as their favourite one. ToT is a top 3 raid, SoO was decent too. no clue of pvp but i dont think thats a big focus of classic
chrome surge
i guess maybe SoO is memorable, thats like the final/ second to final though right?
meager flame
Okay so mop was the second* expansion released after i started playing WoW
... I...
nah its real it was my third expansion and after playing beta i really do like it as much as i thought i did
its not even a particular raid tier either although i'll be the first person to tell you t14 kinda sucks
its the class design
its basically the final iteration of the original wow class design before blizzard deconstructs everything between wod and legion
wod is basically the line in the sand between past wow and modern wow
although this really has nothing to do with osrs so lol
chrome surge
although this really has nothing to do with osrs so lol
thats fine, the alternative to having this conversation wouild be ddisproportionate
opaque jetty
can anyone help me
Hello i need help. I keep getting this message when playing LMS and i havent disconnected at all ? " warning quitting or disconnecting from too many games can cause you to be gamed from competitive
ionic tusk
@vague viper when can we expect the changes to Phosani's and the other proposed combat updates?
rugged hull
Will need to come back to you on this as it doesn't cross into my projects and m...
Well thank you for the timely response!
frail nebula
Vanilla was funb ecause it was so grindy
I think it's fair to say that this particular community is more of a fan of grindy content than most though, lol
chrome surge
I think it's fair to say that this particular community is more of a fan of grin...
Yeah i think this community still upholds achieving something rather than getting it for free, agree.
feels good to walk around with your megarare or collection staff or infernal cape, whatever your goal was
frail nebula
I mean something being grindy doesn't automatically mean that it's an accomplishment
There are other ways for something to feel like an achievement than pure grind
chrome surge
Yeah and?
frail nebula
Just that grind != accomplishment in and of itself
chrome surge
Im not here invalidating your fun, why do you come here trying to do that here?
You good?
chrome surge
No
frail nebula
I'm genuinely confused by what you're trying to even say here
chrome surge
I think i am confused about what you are trying to convey too?
frail nebula
All I was saying was that this community is unusually happy with grinds
Not that that makes other communities worse
As you seem to imply
chrome surge
Oh i thought you were trying to make a point about it how you didn't like it or so
my badd
frail nebula
No no no, I'm happy with it in OSRS too
I would not be 2000 hours into my iron if I didn't like it here
chrome surge
I think, and it doesn't necessarily have to be about grinding, but that sense of achievement and then going to your populated place to show it off really is something that not alot of MMo's managed to grasp properly, WoW did it, OSRS did it.
Guild wars didn't except for the pretty gloves
chrome surge
Gw1
frail nebula
ah
haven't played that one so I'm not familiar with it
but like even in OSRS, there are non-grindy accomplishments
Like an infernal cape, for instance
It's not just grinding for some low drop rate
chrome surge
Oh yeah that's true, but before you can realistically attempt that you would have done your standard 'grind'
frail nebula
And I like that there's stuff like that too
frail nebula
There's a very different mentality in OSRS when it comes to pve/pvm compared to other MMOs
Where OSRS generally has more of a focus on optimizing strategies on bosses since you're going to kill them hundreds to thousands of times
Versus arguably more difficult encounters in other MMOs where you won't do them nearly as many times, and the accomplishment is more clearing them at all
chrome surge
Yeah theres a contrast aswel, i can just raid all day here aswel and im not at all forced to do it on the maximum difficulty to make an impact on my account
oh we cant post screenshots here, but i got shadow the other day andd that proves it
chrome surge
Have to raid for it for 8 weeks only to have it go to your healer 8)
frail nebula
yeahhhhh
chrome surge
and then your healer gets into the better guild and the next one goes to the new healer
Yep, im glad we dont have that
frail nebula
it'd definitely be a legendary in WoW, though
so it'd probably have a lot more involved than just getting a single drop
chrome surge
Yeah, but its always drama unless everyone is either Super casual and dont care, or overly involved and every drop is planned out for the next 3 months. Here its just
Split, move on. have nice day.
Or 'i cant trade you anyway im an iron you knew this beforehand'
hard axle
Yeah, but its always drama unless everyone is either Super casual and dont care,...
Yeah, that's why I didn't like how some mmos went about the soulbound route.
Them getting an item that they would never use was just annoying and soulbound is basically hoping you aren't the last one remaining since there's very little to redo content if you completely finished
tiny epoch
healers dont get loot 
solar gale
Very important but we need a capybara pet for varlamore part 3
jovial sentinel
Yeah, that's why I didn't like how some mmos went about the soulbound route.
...
Soulbound is great, was just done poorly imo. They fixed it later with personal loot, but guilds were always going to make it feel terrible for most people in the guilds as it was
Its another showcase of efficiency ruining the day
hard axle
Soulbound is great, was just done poorly imo. They fixed it later with personal ...
If the encounter isn't easily soloable, you'll always have the issue of a few people holding the bag. If it's too annoying or rare in a solo (hours wise) compared to team, people still complain. But if it's balanced around a solo, then teams will either be super easy or atrocious. And by not having a reason to repeat the grind, it if nothing is tradeable, gg.
jovial sentinel
If the encounter isn't easily soloable, you'll always have the issue of a few pe...
Yeah, thats generally why wow has a large variety of similar gear which keeps the grind going regardless, and has a decent level of optimisation
Rs has little/none of that, so it works less.
It can work, but it cant work as a primary system here without large change.
Id argue that ffxiv, with a more fixed gear in the middleground works fine, great even, as a fully soulbound system (with some inoptimal tradables) and keeps very healthy number of people raiding indefinitely, and has little/no optimisation via gear drops.
hard axle
Id argue that ffxiv, with a more fixed gear in the middleground works fine, grea...
disagree because mostly resources/non-BIS tradeables defaults to just skilling and no big item to chase after to buy 
jovial sentinel
Tradables end up being progression skips, with soulbound being the lategame chase
jovial sentinel
Sure, but whats the point of it? Desperately trying to keep people farming?
The difference with ffxiv is mostly that its fun. And once its not fun, you do something else, gear another character, achievement farm.
Im not saying rs should be one way or the other, just that there are very strong merits to that system
And the obvious argument 'if people get bis or the content isnt profitable and they leave' isnt really true unless the content isnt fun
hard axle
No, the point is to keep the content as alive as possible. 70% of this game is still mains so keeping it worthwhile to do allows people to continue potting. Even with a 20b bank, I still have shit to buy.
jovial sentinel
Why does the content need to be as alive as possible?
hard axle
And the obvious argument 'if people get bis or the content isnt profitable and t...
Except this is entirely true and why they added ge tax lol
jovial sentinel
It can be alive with a smaller group, assuming they can find each other easily.
Its only true when the content isnt fun.
hard axle
When Cerb was 900k/hr and CoX was 2m/hr (50% of that being tbow at 700m), Jagex saw how people were unwilling to pot
Rewards are part of the fun
jovial sentinel
Again, im not saying rs should immediately adopt the system. Stop that in your head trying to counter that as an argument.
hard axle
Folks bitch about nightmare not being rewarding enough to the point it's been buffed massively and going to get another 20%- buff