game-update

[minor whale]

Not only are the contracts for oathplate and shards quite rare, they're also so difficult that 99% of the people who get it would never actually be able to complete it.
While a handful of people could grind through the contracts, they're introducing such a smaller amount of oathplate into the game compared to just normal people grinding it out

[slender vapor]

Well shit

[neon gate]

pvming for gp is pretty pedestrian

[fossil epoch]

i afk'd the alt while playing the iron, pretty great gp for only looking when the plugin says "you got money" or when the 10min timer to re aggro starts

[slender vapor]

That afk? dang lmao

[fossil epoch]

indeed, on an alt with sara sword lol

farming contracts was just a dumb addition, the whole contract systems a mess of course

You can still do this with sensory clouding, its like 1.4-1.5m each atm and you just need to afk mage, without using a powered staff

[slender vapor]

High quality content

[fossil epoch]

maging costing more than melee, and not having the same defence bonus is a thing though

40% water weakness with like chaos gauntlets probably makes it low cost in runes

[tough nacelle]

I think you gotta remember that if you're running 35 min 370s on scuff gear you're probably running 15-17 min cox solos too

So we can say "skill diff"

But the reality is it's just not fun

So while you can do it, is it enjoyable? I'd disagree

Whereas chambers is significantly more enjoyable

Even if I'm getting 22-25 min solos

[rain fulcrum]

real solution: nerf 1:0 without nerfing 5:1

if baba doesnt do a normal attack within N attakc sjust make him smash u

[tough nacelle]

But yeah as a disclaimer I don't think nerfing the bosses was the right play

I think lowering defence which makes perfect gameplay less important since there's less resource drain

And making lowering invo on the reduced healing but raising it on ones that add mechanics

Possibly lower defence too

So the fights shorter

That way you need less healing to survive with less perfect gameplay

[obsidian venture]

When people realize 😭

The akkha and baba change aren’t ideal

[tacit pendant]

We could keep 5:1 chip damage and just make normal red x not viable

[obsidian venture]

For baba, and in general for the raid, just allow us to lower def further, or reduce their stats

[tacit pendant]

But making baba a little weaker to crossbows/stab will help the irons

[final frigate]

maybe force boulder throw every 30s or w/e to at least force people to learn how to get back in cycle

even if 6:0

[tacit pendant]

Tbf i like the changes more than current toa, but theres improvement still to be made

Would people be opposed to a nex style jump if baba doesnt get a melee off every 40 ticks or something?

[obsidian venture]

Baba with the proposed change is a boring room, akkha it makes it cancer at high invos

Honestly

Could do that into a boulder throw

[tacit pendant]

Yeah

Recycle the animation from rolling boulders

[true talon]

Any chance we could get the contract % health transition added to base yama, p1 and p2 are such a boring slog. p3 is only time the boss is fun/challenging. so it would be nice to actually be in the phase with the most danger/mechanics longer.

Its end game boss, people should be at risk of failing it and currently with melee methods dps you just skip past literally any challenge at all. boss dies if your in max before jellies spawn.

[civic ginkgo]

I think we should increase the Def in toa

[tacit pendant]

This would be very nice. P3 easily the most satisying part of the fight

It feels like the boss was balanced around purging staff in blue moon set dps as all the fun stuff gets skipped by max gear, which funnily enough makes the kill time discrepency between med and max gear even larger

25% more orb spawns and p2s fire special being the p3 fireballs could be a decent in between

[sacred oracle]

I don't want to spend an entire boss doing tick perfect donofly

The boss is 2 - 3 minute kc duo, and p1 and p2 are very short. I don't think it needs to be shortened

It's only a slog if you're soloing, but it's a duo boss, so that's not unexpected

[true talon]

thats the skill part of the fight though

rest is just filler bs

[hasty shard]

what fun stuff

[solar gale]

I think its fine that 2/3rds of the base version of the boss is relatively relaxing to do

I mean look at vardorvis

he doesn't really kick it into high gear until after 2/3rds of the fight has passed

[shadow wave]

They've spoken before about intentionally designing new bosses with periods of low attention mixed with high attention

So P3 is great, but if you had to do only P3 for 60 hours?

Probably not so much

[dim ridge]

Hey jagex, i would appreciate if you would update the G.E price of infernal plate

[solar gale]

ah yes I see, just make 180 oathplate chests per hour

[hard axle]

I do agree that this would increase the difficulty drastically, but it runs the risk of 1-sigiling p1/p2

Meaning you might not see meatball of death for 30+ kc if it starts shadow each time

[true talon]

meh yea but still

[rare grotto]

i like this tbh

avoids ppl potion red xing etc

[vivid ruin]

GE tracker app for phone is most accurate anyways

[hard axle]

I don’t mind either way, but donofly did cripple me for contracts

[true talon]

This is 😦

[solar gale]

I don't get it

grats you got an item

[true talon]

5th helm id rather get nothing

[solar gale]

50 free shards

those 4 dupe helms are juicy to drop trade for bonds, melt into shards, or slap into deaths coffer

[true talon]

50 shards not worth it, 50 shards is very easy to get

not sacing a year of membership

[solar gale]

then grats on a free year of membership

[true talon]

not bad boss to go on dry on tbh as the worms and catalyst are nice

[solar gale]

lovely anglers

currently on a 10kc trip right now

whisperer 2.0 (yama) is a very supply low boss

well new personal record of 12 kc solo

I spent 75 minutes in that room

wouldn't recommend

[pine dirge]

@winter hearth you guys keeping an eye on bots at yama? ive seen a few

[wild comet]

Is solo mage viable with full blue moon, torm, mages book, purging staff. No occult. No second synapse. 80 Def 92 mage. I have 30k soul runes from RC.

I like the idea of getting oathplate early but not sure if feasible, or better off sticking to slayer grind (currently 87) and I'll get to Yama eventually?

[quiet plank]

You shouldn't ping mods

Especially for bots. There's a report button in game for a reason

[true talon]

I would do this with a duo if you do

[wild comet]

Don't have any friends that play and I don't want to put a random through me trying to learn and holding them back

[true talon]

well the dps difference is minor between oath and bandos/bloodmoon

[tacit pendant]

There are a lot of randoms in the yama world in ahrims + purging at all times looking for duo. Learning solo for a few kc will teach you all you need. Boss aint too bad

Ill duo with you in like 3 hours if you want just pm me

[true talon]

ye mage camp is chill, i started doing it so my duo could practice nofly

I just mage an do all the sigils and we stay for like 10+ kill trips

[wild comet]

Thanks both for your input. Have to go to bed but appreciate the offer. So in summary, it is definitely viable to learn with this gear?

[true talon]

not solo i wouldnt recommend

[tacit pendant]

I would just maybe learn / get comfy with a quick solo and then duo. Its not bad

[pine dirge]

who are you

[tacit wharf]

a guy letting you know, you shouldnt be pinging the jmods when they arent active in chat

[zenith pike]

nah you spitting tho

[pine dirge]

where is that rule in the server rules?

i dont see

it

enlighten me

wait thats right there isnt one

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah keep to pinging em only if they're actively in the chat. Unless it's Ash I guess 🤔

He seems fine with whenever to answer questions

[quiet plank]

Also is mod goblin even in charge of bots?

[tacit wharf]

coummunity manager (at least thats what the wiki calls him)

[true talon]

Goblin and other jmods who are active here are just community managers, they interact with us to bring info or gather idea's they also are rarely active outside of working hours monday-friday.

[bright anchor]

Is there any ETA on the stackeble clue update that passed the poll? 🙂

[fossil epoch]

There is not

[slender vapor]

Still hoping we see stat debloat at ToA instead of making the raid mindless

👀

Lowering hp scaling lowers loot potential too

Lowering defense scaling fixes the entire reason irons bitch and cry about fang in the first place

[obsidian venture]

Would see less cope so that’s good

[slender vapor]

Less hp and defense will make the raid faster and feel less like a mind numbing slog that can stack you out for messing up 1 mechanic

Legit, leave the boss mechanics alone, strip away hp/defense the raid will be infinitely better

[winged mantle]

Agreed

[dim ridge]

jesus christ dude stop playing if it's that bad

[velvet token]

70m still 70m 😂

[hard axle]

Instead they’re turning the raid mindless and then likely adding more invos down the line the replace this, which only makes it more common purple

Going down this brainless route regardless if it’s a “med level raid” is dumb

[slender vapor]

Their proposed akka nerfs pretty much kill the main point of the boss

Why worry about gear switches. Face tank and camp fang/bowfa/shadow

[brazen sigil]

My feedback for Toa

A key issue with a rare fang is the lack of alternative options for newer players.

Solutions

1. Add a new unique stab weapon to toa which acts as a mini Fang and is either exclusively dropped or overweighted to under 300s invos

2. Nerf Fang toa bonus and reduce toa bosses stab defense to compensate to keep current balance. This should make other stab weapons such as Z hasta more viable.

3. Buff Kerris in toa only (or new gem drop) to make it a viable main hand for other bosses.

General scalling

1. Cap or reduce impact of scaling stats at high invos
2. Remove annoying non mechanical invos
3. Add new mechanic based invos which requires significant skill but are not one hit and don't slow raid down.

This type of rebalance should make high invo toa much more enjoyable and less of a slogg whist adding to it's depth and mechanical challenge at high end.

[meager flame]

im ngl

[bronze kernel]

I could understand toning down the orb phase a little bit. As well as reducing the chip damage. But that change even I think was questionable.

[meager flame]

i think in some ways toa is fine without a fang if you aren't really pushing your invocation

its obviously very good

but i dont really think the problem is the fang chance specifically

the raid is just way too good loot wise at higher invos

where people who dont have a fang aren't playing

so if they nerf loot

they need to nerf the scaling

purples arent too common or too generous on the low end

those rates suck lol

[bronze kernel]

Replace fang with DT2 ring drop mechanic

[analog crow]

If the reason fang and lb are cheap is teams grinding shadows at 540 invo then nerfing the rates at 300 and below doesn't make sense does it?

[meager flame]

it would not

thats why they should attack the scaling of the raid

[analog crow]

Yeah for sure

Make purps scale less but make fang/lb less common on the higher invo purple drop table

[meager flame]

its also pretty traditional for some of the best drops from a raid to be the most common

every raid is like that

[shadow wave]

I did like the idea of capping anything but Shadow drop rate at like 300

[meager flame]

i mean i dont really think they should only cap certain items

they should cap purples period

its just totally out of control

and they looked the other way for 3 years

[bronze kernel]

Let's also see how much the GE tax impacts fang prices

Since it's so cheap right now, and the tax is more aggressive

[meager flame]

i mean

do you think the fang price is going to 10x

[bronze kernel]

I can imagine they are being deleted pretty quickly

[meager flame]

because it would be a steal at 100m for what it does

[analog crow]

I could see it at 40

[meager flame]

they just tried to make a silly point about fang and lb being super cheap but good

they could type the same thing out for dex and arcane and nobody would say cox rates are too generous

[bronze kernel]

Looking at the Wiki prices. Looks like Fang has doubled

[analog crow]

lb also right

[meager flame]

the root of the whole problem is that they're both the raids generous likely to see purples

[bronze kernel]

(Looking at real time prices)

[meager flame]

and the sheer rate that you see purples at toa is insane on the high end

the singular problem though when it comes down to it all

is just that toa drops purples way too often

and when you go check out why thats happening

you'll notice its not the entry mode or the 150s doing it

those rates are actually pretty bad

its the opposite end of the scale

idk im ngl

if jagex really tries to address the problem

people are going to be very upset lol

but they probably should

[analog crow]

like rapier is at around 35m, it makes sense for fang so sit in the same bracket doesn't it?

[meager flame]

not really the rapier is basically useless in comparison

[fossil epoch]

This Fang chart for 1 year does look pretty funny ngl (it was needed)

[meager flame]

they are using the ge tax correctly though

its basically a hack to fix crazy supply problems

i almost think though

that might be a lot of speculation too

[analog crow]

I saw some merchers on yt being pretty salty about it lol

[meager flame]

where people are trying to hoard fangs

anticipating jagex fixing something

[fossil epoch]

When it reached 15m ea, Faux said if he sold his stack of fangs, he would make 1.4b

[hard axle]

The issue starts from the bottom up.

If 300s are 5%, then 500s need to higher than that or no one does it.

This is what happened on release when people didn’t want to do 300s+ and opted for 225-250s.

[fossil epoch]

reaching purples raids of like 50% in teams does seem a bit high though

[hard axle]

At some point, they need to sit down and decide whether or not it’s worth placating to 300- and giving them any drops.

[hard axle]

Which like @slender vapor said above

Lower the fucking hp and defense

[meager flame]

i mean i think it honestly

[hard axle]

Hp is directly tied to points

[meager flame]

would be in the interest of everyone's enjoyment of the game and mental health

to make anything past 350 optional

lmao

toa sucks and pushing the scaling anywhere past that is why

[hard axle]

I don’t care if it means 0-1 down returns frankly and I want it to

[analog crow]

I mean it seems like fang is pretty necessary if you want to push much past 300 from what I've seen so it should be reasonably obtainable for 300- invos

[meager flame]

easy fix is just to make anything after 350 just for kits

just give it no additional scaling

[analog crow]

that would be a good way to go about it
insane end-game scaling is for (untradable) cosmetics

[hard axle]

that’s a shit hole solution

[meager flame]

i mean its the only real one

besides its not like people playing well wouldn't be gettimg more

they'd just be going faster instead of scaling number larger

like they do with other raids

[analog crow]

People still run tob even though it doesn't have a 50% purp rate

[hard axle]

Giving the middle finger to better players because they don’t want to address the atrocious hp/defense scaling and want to placate to lower levels is how you end up in this shit hole in the first place.

Notice how ToB and cox gets progressively faster to an extent due to human scaling? There’s actual perks to running in teams.

[meager flame]

you cant address that though

yeah lets just turn off the hp and def scaling and then let people run their 50% purple chance raids 10 minutes faster than they were previously

problem now worse what do

[hard axle]

If you lower the hp scaling from 90% to 25%, you won’t hit 50%

[meager flame]

that doesn't address the problem still even if it were 1:1

[hard axle]

Outside of room bonuses, points are mostly 1:1, 1:2, 1:3 in terms of hp to points

[meager flame]

it would just increase the rate you completed raids to keep the rates equal to where they are atm

and solve nothing about the raid giving people way too many purples

[shadow wave]

Well I think the idea is you lower def scaling and gut the drop rate

So it is objectively slower but raid doesn't feel as dogshit without things like Fang

[hard axle]

Then you don’t have a scaling raid imo

Better off just making it easy normal and hard static encounters

[meager flame]

yeah thats good

scaling never goes well for jagex

[hard axle]

neither was guaranteed Yama drops

[meager flame]

hopefully they think about that too since they have dreams of raids 4 having a 100 man option

[hard axle]

But they are being intentionally dumb with design

[meager flame]

i mean toa and yama are actually

super amazingly similar

its jagex trying to accomplish too many contradictory things at once

[hard axle]

The moment someone develop contract bots, the prices are gonna be even worse

in a game of rng, removing rng is dumb as bricks

[meager flame]

i mean they were inches from making it work not the contracts but the bad luck stuff

then they made it tradable

lmfao

[winged mantle]

Seeing how many contracts some GM's in my clan have taken to get oathplate kit it's unviable to go for on an iron... Like literally 70 of each of the hardest ones (at least 3 types)

[hard axle]

Ultra rare + untradeable + not vanish on death/start would’ve been amazing

[winged mantle]

Like what even

[hard axle]

Kneejerk response to triple the rates instead of addressing the issue

which is that no one really likes the idea of farming orbs

[winged mantle]

How many hours for enough to have a good shot at it

[hard axle]

Sorry, did I say orbs, meant contracts cuz they’re so fucking materially similar

Look at brittle key, hmt, CG

[winged mantle]

Honestly if they made contracts 10x rates on slayer task for contract farming + a set number to sacrifice to unlock the fight permanently that may do it

Plus you can farm the one you want

[meager flame]

all they have to do is just stop

[hard axle]

Keep the contracts ultra rare (which also ensures not too many get in) and by not consuming 1 until you actually complete it, you make this entire system better.

[fossil epoch]

Yama never gave me more than 2 types of oathplate recolour contracts, should have just been one time unlocks for sure

[meager flame]

look at the time to complete tob

pick a number

and make it work

[winged mantle]

Ya

[meager flame]

and just tell people this is how you do toa

[tender harness]

I mean what people want but it wont happen is for them to nuke contracts.
could probably delete acquisition ones, make the other ones just 1nd or just a consume you use and unlock the option to try at any time with out sinking stuff for, should you want to do it again

[winged mantle]

Just let us do them without a contract but pay death fee when we die

Done

Screw the wealth distribution. It's a kit

[tender harness]

ye. literally set the price of the at like 750k or something for death fees 75% reduction on first X attempts

[winged mantle]

There's so many ways they can do it and they aren't listening

It doesn't need to be this complicated or how hard it is currently

[tender harness]

but you dont get it PoE does it. so OSRS should

[fossil epoch]

Nothing wrong with trying mechanics other games does, but they should act fast upon them not working like they wanted them to

[tender harness]

they took one of the worst POE mechanics

and changed nothing

[slender vapor]

I'm fine with them never making "hardmode" bosses raw stat sticks again

Being 1 shot because you blink at the wrong time during a 10 minute slog fest is definitely the worst type of difficulty

[winged mantle]

Even rework it to a tough mega 1 fight

[tender harness]

stat sticks dont make bosses hard though I dont get that approach.
inflating something by 3000% HP does not add difficulty. it just turns into a fucking slog

[white narwhal]

What if the guaranteed piece contracts ends up being a once you completed it you only get that guaranteed drop that one completion time ever but the fight unlocks free for you forever and your name goes on something like a highscores for completions or something

[meager flame]

tbh there is another level to this

that osrs just hasn't hit yet lol

[true talon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408274552406278146/1379063795304890449/image.png?ex=683ee0be&is=683d8f3e&hm=5113411820a068cbe83e1d313e40ce729f9aed729b5d3a3201e0641cae9137ef&

It has begun

[analog crow]

???

[meager flame]

just wait until you get hit with the 15 minute every second is hard and terrifying boss fight

and you realize

10+ minute fights just shouldn't exist

[tender harness]

people figuring out tech for contracts realizing how much money it shits out

TLDR

[slender vapor]

Till it hits the dirt

[analog crow]

I mean I knew people would solve the contracts sooner or later

[slender vapor]

[tender harness]

oathplate shards are like 20m an hour? or some dumb shit

[hard axle]

Why guaranteed shit is dumb 101 and why we mentioned it literally at the start when contract rewards were revealed

[true talon]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1377990203351896125
I proposed a fix to orbs and contracts using a system jagex plans to introduce in summer sweep up for early game content bryo and obor.

[meager flame]

lmao i feel like im being an ass to jagex by saying this but the honest contract situation fix

[true talon]

It was actually a good idea to not gate keep the bosses

[meager flame]

is deleting contracts

and just saying hey sorry

[tender harness]

they will never delete contracts

[slender vapor]

[tender harness]

nerfing/deleting acquisitions

[plush gull]

idk colo taking about 25 mins with budget gear and not max combats feels like the sweetspot

[tender harness]

is the only answer

[meager flame]

they could rework it into some kind of thing like

bring me 5 of these to fight the boss forever

and just yeeting acquisition contracts in general

but like

[true talon]

Ya 100% drop should never be a thing no matter how hard it is considered.

[meager flame]

they're just dying on the hill you can tell

[true talon]

If port did 57 awakened Levi then with enough autism and Red Bull anyone will solve it.

[slender vapor]

It's like when they died on the muspah hill and kept his melee phase tanky AF against magic because they forgot to Calc salve ammy when making muspah "vorkath tier" defense

[tender harness]

delete acquisition contracts
make the acquisition fight roll for an additional chance on the unique table at a higher rate or just up the unique chance slightly
and get rid of the guaranteed shit

[meager flame]

i mean if you really look at it all

its just nonsense

like look at the pet contract

lets ignore how stupid it would be for someone else to even waste their time with you

it doesn't even drop regular loot

like lol

why

[tender harness]

it literally is/was just a boostable pet

which is ???

[slender vapor]

Asking me to ignore the stupid? That's a tall order

[meager flame]

and honestly

they even know its bad

[true talon]

I’m all for rewarding good play, but not at the cost of the economy

[hard axle]

Nothing is ever truly hard per se

[meager flame]

they come out and say they're unlikely to ever do this again

but leave two examples of it in game

like for what

lmao

[tender harness]

even if they delete contracts and orbs
they have nothing to slot in there as an alternative.
they very clearly want something but both systems are extremely hated

[meager flame]

i mean just dont have something

i know they want it but

its not really even that big of an overall addition for the bosses at least

idk wtf you can do about the greater demon slaying army they've created

[true talon]

Facts, they actually made it harder to get oathplate shards and lock boxes due to dossier becoming a 1/12

[hard axle]

this is basically their last chance to resolve it before oathplate contracts are finally completed en masse

[plush gull]

im just waiting for them to remove contracts and orbs in 2 days before i start complaining, but tbh im pretty occupied practicing max levi volley with dinhs in normal made with unstable 160 ping

[hard axle]

As much as wizzy was being a dumbass about it, farming demons for contracts was not ideal for either game mode

[tender harness]

oathplate

[meager flame]

yeah i mean its just lol

its honestly as funny as the pizza thing

[true talon]

They have the fix for awakened bosses and contracts. They are using it for bryo and obor. Difference is their keys are tradeable atm.

[meager flame]

the pizzas are just low key funny

[tender harness]

the fact demons are still better source for contracts than Yama is what the fuck

[meager flame]

the demons are a little too on the nose so you ask wtf

when you think about actually doing it

most people aren't ready to follow the logic of what it actually means to make that many pineapple pizza though

so its like a funny surprise for a few irons

[tender harness]

Yama should have been the guaranteed source Demons should have dropped fragments and killing 1 of each demon to combine the fragment to make a contract

but unironically make fragments not tradable

[hard axle]

Yama will be the next case study of shitty drop balance after toa

[analog crow]

Contracts from demons gave me an excuse to play with the arceuus spells so I'm happy with the system

[meager flame]

its just frustrating because the yama stuff is like

you dont have to study really

it never made sense lol

they just did it anyways

i honestly feel like

they were pressured into trying to create space for everyone rather than the intended audience

and they just went completely out of pocket and made a bunch of terrible choices

in pursuit of that

[tender harness]

they need to just stop listening

to reddit

[meager flame]

i mean i wouldn't even put that on reddit

idk if they asked for us to hard camp greater demons lmao

or said yeah lets turn this boss into mining

[hard axle]

They need to stop this

Even hmt was poorly designed from a drop rate perspective cuz the increased annoyances and deaths completely offset the purple increase rate

[tender harness]

hmt
cox
toa scaling

[analog crow]

The reason is probably that developing exclusively for the elite pvm community is not financially viable

[meager flame]

it is but it isn't and im really trying to figure out how to explain that whole scenario

like

[fossil epoch]

Idk we also see some very polarizing opinions in here, about basicly the same thing.

"Make yama contracts repeatable for free" So we are keeping bad droprates for harder content, because they give cosmetics
But when someone asked for making anything past 350 ToA just focus on cosmetics, and not droprates, they were "insane"

[meager flame]

lets say you make an update for your top 5% of your players once they've had time to sit with it

that sounds like it doesn't make any sense

[fossil epoch]

reddit isnt the only place at fault

[meager flame]

financially

but

what happens when you make content like that is you create a spectacle that puts eyes on your game so its already advertising budget

it also gives people a feeling of like

i want to do that one day etc even if they never will

and it also makes you stop in game when you see something cool and appreciate it

it helps people feel invested in the game

so yeah you can't exclusively only do updates like that

but they are very helpful/healthy

the inferno is probably the #1 example of that

jagex i think hard undervalues that whole concept

and tries to sort of water down those updates to include more people

[analog crow]

Like every dev decision has to be justified to corporate before they get the budget approved
In that case asking for whatever man hours and dev resources to cater to only 1-5% of the playerbase won't fly
So you have to give mid level players a reason to interact with it as well, and they succeeded in that with the shale mining and the demon contracts imo

It might not be to everyone's taste that the result in the first week as contracts worth 3-4m each, but the price has settled down now at least.
The contract fights are still inaccessible to almost all players so it's still a big deal when the contract ca pops up in the cc.

[meager flame]

and the reason im even kind of familiar with the whole concept is wow

i've talked to wow devs and world first raiders and stuff and the race to world first and the impact of a mythic raiding difficulty existing is entirely built upon the idea that its like

basically a spectacle to watch and culturally good for the game

there has never been enough players actually doing it to make it make sense

[analog crow]

I don't know if we can have that in osrs since the human limit and the engine limitations have already basically converged

[meager flame]

its interesting because its part viral marketing tactics almost and part aspirational/world building almost in game

[analog crow]

Anything you can do in the engine, the top pvmers can adapt to quickly

[meager flame]

oh no you could own people in game

just make people work together

and then you're fighting the boss and your teammates

jagex is just super new/light on doing group mechanics

[analog crow]

yeah but you know then the sentiment becomes "play perfectly and hope your coop doesn't pk you"

[ember token]

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/s/CHfMugTTlu jagex is laying off rs3 devs

[shadow wave]

Damn, as I understand it Jack and Timbo are like the main people in charge of RS3s direction?

[analog crow]

The majority of [laid off] roles are from non-game dev and non-player facing areas. There are some exceptions within the RS team as part the company's focus on a streamlined development approach.

I’m sure many of you are concerned about what this means for RuneScape 3. This is not a change in direction from what Mod North has said before – we are still committed to growing this game and investing in it. Our Roadmap won’t change because of these job reductions, and we’ll continue the great path we’ve been on with our content. We will talk to you about this when the time is right.

[meager flame]

i guess thats only the natural conclusion

super unfortunate though its just

[fossil epoch]

ngl i thought it was ModHotti first

[meager flame]

people dont play the game what can you do

[ember token]

jack and timbo being laid off are the big ones

[hard axle]

Problem of their own making from years of bleeding the players dry

[meager flame]

yeah its just honestly

[tender harness]

how long before horn hits 5m to match contract

[hard axle]

Making the grind too speedy and killing integrity by allowing buyable xp and items = rs3

[meager flame]

the people getting laid off are probably being yeeted by the people who told them to milk the players

[final frigate]

while they do 250s

[fossil epoch]

Ash has said its not an easy feat but,
If they really wanted more players on RS3 they would make it so you could play both games on 1 account at the same time

It would be perfect to afk one game while playing the other and vice versa

[final frigate]

how many people are doing 540s vs 350-400s

please think

[analog crow]

Do you talk to your mother like that?

[hard axle]

Please think

[tender harness]

Please think

[meager flame]

i dont even really think you're worried about 540s

its more like how many people are doing above a 350

[tender harness]

throw more HP at a boss and call it difficult LEEGO

[meager flame]

because jagex's numbers are already out of pocket

[final frigate]

go to 329 there are 5 billion people doing 350s all day

[meager flame]

ya this is why i was saying they'd make people mad if they really fixed it

they have to drop the hammer on scaling

[final frigate]

trio 350 is more purple chance than solo 540 btw

[tender harness]

nerf teams toa

thx

[final frigate]

but yes target nerf high invos

surely that will solve the problem

[hard axle]

But yes, peekays isn’t wrong. If your logic is that high level players only make up a very small percentage of the playerbase, then there’s way more people doing 150-350s; It gets exponentially more and more.

All you need is 3.5 people doing 300s to beat one person doing 540s and I guarantee you there’s more than 3.5 people doing 350s

[final frigate]

duo 400 is also higher purp than solo 540 btw

[hard axle]

10 150s to 1 540

[final frigate]

👍

[meager flame]

thats not even the comparison though really

its the part where it scales

[hard axle]

it is if you’re saying 540s and teams are too common drops

[final frigate]

you can do duo 400 with dcb trident while 540 farmers have minimum 2b gear and usually 4b gear

[tender harness]

8 man 540s are healthy for the game

[final frigate]

but no it's the high invo raids that are the issue

[river forge]

thats a big one

theres no way theyre trying to actually kill rs3

[tender harness]

rs3 is fucked even before the layoffs

[plush gull]

i cant even do 150 toa on leagues, p2 wardens is annoying

[meager flame]

cant kill what is already dead

[final frigate]

fun fact 8 man 540s is the same purp chance as 8 man 400s

[meager flame]

sad but true

[final frigate]

that was a good joke

[tender harness]

also this isnt the channel for rs3 talk

smh my head

[river forge]

i kind of want to transfer my gold from rs3 but it will cost 3.3b lol

[hard axle]

I don’t even think that many people do 540s let alone 8 man

[last onyx]

deleting an active item from the game many players have thats worth 70m each is nonsense

[final frigate]

it's capped there are no 8 man 540s

[hard axle]

Remember it caps at 55%

[final frigate]

even at 4 man it's past cap

[tender harness]

but guaranteed drops are not? okay

[hard axle]

4 man deathless is where it would cap at 540

[meager flame]

yeah the cap is just too high and you can scale up to that too easily

like

they just gave people too much period

[hard axle]

Shit design by Jagex

[last onyx]

doesn't matter, deleting them from the game isn't a solution

[hard axle]

And it starts off with solo and low invo

[tender harness]

yes it is

is it a good solution? depends on who you ask

[meager flame]

tob is correct

[hard axle]

Okay, say don’t delete awakener orbs and see how many people shit on you

[hard axle]

Flat rate and faster raid, yes

[meager flame]

you complete the raid and you get a standard chance at purple

minor scaling changes

based on group size

[last onyx]

nothing wrong with guaranteed oathplate either, the contract is extremely rare

so it's misinformation to think it's going to cause oversupply

[austere mulch]

Can’t wait for Transformation of Combat (different from EOC, much like contracts are different from orbs)

[meager flame]

the only thing tob falls short on is making sure solo works

but they can fix that if they know they want to

they didnt need to make a raid that actually scales down to a solo player

it just needs to be reasonably playable

[austere mulch]

Solo tob with power creep and the accommodations they’ve made is plenty accessible solo these days

[tender harness]

holy fuck. how does it feel to be so openly wrong

[last onyx]

cry more and learn some math while you're at it

[tender harness]

[meager flame]

i mean the contract is definitely not that common

[hard axle]

You know what else would make it even more accessible. Guthans working in sote

[tender harness]

tell me you're hoarding contracts with out telling me

[austere mulch]

Just gonna have to Tickeat anyways 🤣

[last onyx]

i want to be able to do guaranteed oathplate contracts with a reasonable risk of failure

that's what jagex intended, deleting them to pander isn't a solution they just won't do it again

[tender harness]

nothing wrong with guaranteed oathplate
nothing wrong with guaranteed 45 shards
holy fuck people are stupid

[austere mulch]

It can both be true that contract drop rates are accommodated for in the total target drop rate and also that their mark on this is way off

Without contracts in mind, if they just deleted them outright today, oathplate is still too common. Contracts on top of that is a problem

[last onyx]

did you graduate highschool

linking ge-tracker is not an argument

[meager flame]

i mean mathematically its very easy to make contracts fit in with overall projected drop rates

if i were taking a guess at the problem its tradable oathplate shards

like if we were being serious about where the obviously unexpected oathplate is coming from

[tender harness]

do you know how to read? because reading is sure a requirement to make an argument

[last onyx]

yes shards imo are a big contribution to supply issue sure, i think they should have been made untradeable

but it's too late to change that now, only reasonable thing is to just nerf base yama drop rate again

or accept the masori treatment for oathplate

both are fine

[meager flame]

tbh

[hard axle]

There’s something like 9m Yama completions, which is another 9000 oathplate legs and bodies going to maybe 5-10 people with a 30% completion rate

Shards and soulflame follow this trend.

[austere mulch]

Imo it’s never too late to change, but they definitely will get backlash

[meager flame]

i think jagex should take the "its too late" mentality and just forget to ever think about it again

and just start fixing stuff

[hard axle]

Nah lmao. Base Yama is fine. Just make shards untradeable like people have been saying since day 1

[last onyx]

that is 100% what they are doing. everything is mitigation at this point now

they're not walking back things like guaranteed drops

[hard axle]

You need to read

He’s saying they should walk back on it

[tender harness]

nah you obviously didnt go to high school

[hard axle]

“It’s too late” is a dogshit mentality

[meager flame]

i mean these dudes out here proclaiming this game is created with community input etc

[last onyx]

you act like guaranteed contracts are what the problem is rn

[meager flame]

why dont we just go back to that

and just admit when things dont work

and fix them

[last onyx]

guaranteed contracts are literally doing nothing

to oathplate supply rn

[restive siren]

to be fair here, you can open the chart of every single piece of gear on release and it looks like that. like i just checked a random assortment, shadow, twinflame, noxious hally, ultor ring, everything looks like this

new gear is the new shit until its not

[last onyx]

jagex said they're gonna try guaranteed drops, and if people don't like it they wont do it again. What is so hard to understand about that? You didn't like it. They'll tweak things to make it a little bit less of a stain but it's not going anywhere.

[tender harness]

shard contracts are like north of 20m an hour right now?
shard contract at max efficency is like 3:30 a kill
with 10 kill trips

[meager flame]

i mean the hard part about understanding it is basically

okay it didnt work so why is it still there

[tender harness]

you are delusional if you think 45 shards with 10 kill trips does nothing

[last onyx]

you're doing the wrong math, how many people do you think are clearing shard contracts rn?

not you obviously

you watched a gnomonkey stream and think it's decimating the economy

[austere mulch]

It’s not the problem but it is a clear contributor.

The problem is: In isolation of contracts, oathplate objectively enters the game too quickly.

Contracts just add to that. Particularly the shard acquisition, but still

[tender harness]

no. im just not delusional to defend a shit system

[last onyx]

never said the system's good just said you're whining and proposing literal dent brain solutions of "just delete everything"

[tender harness]

holy fuck you literally cant read

public school failed another person

[hard axle]

Even if the drop rate is 1/1400 Yama for oathplate, 1/500 for shards, 1/1400 for horn, they literally do not help by existing since it’s just a component of another issue. Deleting it does help, as does making shards untradeable and making oathplate a component for Torva upgrades.

If humans can get it down, bots will do the same but better. Jraze spent like 7b in disposable cash on contracts and even in the HLC, not many people have this type of cash to do it.

[last onyx]

you literally said just delete contracts moron

[last onyx]

sure, these are reasonable tweaks but i only entered this conversation to tell he-who-speaks-in-emojis dentbrain fuck over here that deleting guaranteed contracts is not a solution

[tender harness]

No
what I said was

make the acquisition fight **roll for an additional chance on the unique table at a higher rate or just up the unique chance slightly** 
and get rid of the guaranteed shit```
but good job reading and cherry picking out what you wanted

fucking

[austere mulch]

Think it was 12b of his own and 1-2b donated lmao

[meager flame]

i do hope that in the future

we are absolutely done with mystery drop systems

they clearly need to get checked on this stuff

[last onyx]

i just looked you up. it makes sense now. no more needs to be said

[meager flame]

before they release content

[last onyx]

giving ppl with 0kc a voice on endgame content was a mistake

[hard axle]

That’s even fucking worse.

After experiencing DT2 and Yama on release, I’d rather we have the brittle key system, but you need to farm 500 Yama for it

[tender harness]

okay

[hard axle]

Yeah and if we want to ego based on this over logic, look me up next

If the logic holds, it’s fine

[meager flame]

like im sure jagex is shellshocked atm because of this lol

[analog crow]

Yama into summer sweep up was a rough ride I think

[meager flame]

imagine they had this whole system ready then realized items are raining before people even figure out how to make use of the guaranteed contracts on top

[austere mulch]

Brittle key unlock to harder boss fight that has slightly better unique rates or weightings and a chance at cosmetic upgrade would’ve been infinitely better 😭

[meager flame]

basically slow motion train crash

[hard axle]

Unless acquisition contracts were untradeable and 2-10x rarer, I still don’t think they should exist, especially when it comes to how I wanted them to implement it.

[meager flame]

they can see it coming when someone figures out how to consistently do the acquisitions

[tender harness]

Yama just needed more time to cook. and it just didnt have the time

[meager flame]

if they were untradable i think it would've made way more sense

[tender harness]

im curious to see how varlamore pt3 goes
if fletching mini game is mixology bad
or if its actually decent

[meager flame]

especially if they let you try it endlessly

because then you basically just had to fight a hard boss because he dropped you the paper

instead of the item

but they just had to get it on the ge

[austere mulch]

Untradeable + consumed on completion also would’ve been much better, yeah

[hard axle]

Yeah, it’s like hmt requiring 1 kc

I’m telling you, I’ve only burnt down the kitchen like 20% of the time with my ideas and cooking. The rest have been 3-5 Michelin stars.

Let me be the contrarian amongst jmods

[tender harness]

nah let it be tass

[meager flame]

tbh i think it would be hilarious to be a jmod

[tender harness]

I dont think itd be fun at all to be a jmod

[meager flame]

lmao i would have a ton of fun with it like

[tender harness]

given the nature of this community

[analog crow]

Getting up at 1am to hotfix the game on a Saturday is not my idea of fun

[meager flame]

look at what we think of stuff from the outside

[plush gull]

crazy how i can blood barrage a shielded golem in dt2 but not sotetseg

[meager flame]

imagine being there listening to how it happens

[hard axle]

and worst case scenario, they just buff afterwards and make everyone happy.

[hard axle]

Bro, Tass would be nodding to all of this

[tender harness]

oh sailing poll is live

[meager flame]

that confused me because they pinged us like twice over a video that wasn't out

then put up the poll before the QA

[analog crow]

sailing qna in like 1 hour also

[meager flame]

like

lol

wouldn't you rather do the q&a before the poll

since its about the poll topics

its close enough i guess but its a little funny

[analog crow]

the poll is live for a week though so you can hold off voting if you want

[meager flame]

i honestly think this part of the poll is an easy pass anyways

like

"do you want stuff to be in the ocean"

[analog crow]

mhm

[meager flame]

yeah okay maybe we should get onto the things that people would discuss lol

[analog crow]

"no actually I would like the ocean to be empty like irl"

[meager flame]

im pretty sure this stuff is only on a poll just to like

keep up appearances with an easy one

[plush gull]

quests bad, i hope they still add the turtles tho just not the quests

[meager flame]

theres no way that stuff is actually optional

imagine we were like

"no quests, no world building, no fishing at sea"

lmao

[plush gull]

i hope they add prayer pots and fishing

[fossil epoch]

love the quest idea

[plush gull]

to fishing*

[analog crow]

Turtle Zanik sounds lovely

[fossil epoch]

no worries prayer pots already exist

[plush gull]

its annoying to get prayer pots on an early iron

[hard axle]

That’s the entire sailing skill

Unless you have 3+ alts and I mean actual alts, not throwaway accounts cuz you played a different game mode, questing is fine

[fossil epoch]

you can just get moonlight moths now, they are very strong for irons

[hard axle]

:moths:

[plush gull]

can u catch those with a wily cat without the hunter level

[fossil epoch]

of course not

[meager flame]

i actually have a crazy collection of alts if that were ever a real thing

[fossil epoch]

neither can you catch prayer pots with your cat

[analog crow]

hunter is a quick grind anyway

[plush gull]

wiki wrong as always 💀

[meager flame]

maxed main gim near 2200 maxed iron rune dragon alts pures etc

[hard axle]

Meanwhile me with mostly name placeholder alts

[ember token]

where does the wiki say you can catch moths with cats?

[ember token]

butterflies

are not moths

[plush gull]

so i can catch str pots with cats?

and brews?

[ember token]

i actually have no idea, ive never heard of this before

[plush gull]

black warlocks and snowy knights

my ratcatchers is only like half done but ive been wondering for like 6 months

[minor whale]

You don't get anything for a cat catching a butterfly

It just deletes the npc

[ember token]

yeah i was gonna guess that is the case

[maiden gulch]

Does bloodied blows still require full max -3% magic damage to 1 shot voids? Or was that changed last week

[shadow wave]

Requires 36% atm

[maiden gulch]

Oof alright. Such a steep ask

Guess I'll wait to do that one on the iron then

Not that I could make my orn oath plate with the amount of aether shards I have 🤣

[hard axle]

This actually is still insane, but apparently you can double tap them as long as you have spec to finish it off

But can’t dally around too much

I really hope they just make them weak to demonbane as normal

[maiden gulch]

Yeah I understand that you can double tap them... It's just a lot harder because of the timing issue with current wave strats

I've done them all already on a main, just a shame I can't do that last one on my iron too

It's either I get ancy legs, an arcane or wait for a more reasonable mage upgrade lmao

[small anvil]

Time to get to corp

[maiden gulch]

yes sir

[hard axle]

I still think the demonbane resistance should undone

cuz there’s nothing beneficial about it. It’s only slightly off the previous iteration of being able to splash on then in max mage

[plush gull]

whats def stats on bloodied blows flare? they spawn every 20 ticks right?

its really dumb if it requires near max or purging, but i only did like 400 dmg in dh day 1. i need to test if its really fully impossible

[maiden gulch]

Nah I doubt it's impossible. You'd be able to tag it with a faster weapon and then purging spec after surely

Just annoying

[plush gull]

i wonder if blowpipe is good, i tried it on normal yama flares day 1 so probably not. ill try stat spy in a minute

[maiden gulch]

I don't think you'll have the range on P3 for the far flares

I imagine craws would be the choice

[plush gull]

yeah i was thinking webweaver for first hit if it works but it orovably doenst

[maiden gulch]

trident could save 1t atleast.. but yeah, if craws works that'd be the one

[tender harness]

make this a master CA benefit
you now ignore demonbane resistance

[hard axle]

Baron hunters

[fossil epoch]

this also for duke

[solemn island]

So when will we be able to chisel down the rev artifacts?

[fossil epoch]

whenever the update is out (not announced when)

[true talon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1133615957844168764/1379108514076692593/i-found-a-consistent-way-to-do-oath-acquisition-contracts-v0-09f24117yi4f1.png?ex=683f0a64&is=683db8e4&hm=16fb56f8367d55724e1b28fb5be5a8d9dff4df2c21035fedef82018be5867ea4&

Reminder why this is bad

[red scroll]

xdddd i love crashing the price of bis armor

[hard axle]

Another reason why shards should be untradeable and possibly nerf reversed

This update literally has 4 sources for the armor

[true talon]

Yep lol

[hard axle]

Direct from boss, shards, contracts

And something else that’s slipping my mind

[true talon]

You think this only has an impact on oath

[hard axle]

Nope

Shards are the most impactful

[true talon]

But if oath is very accessible then rip torva

[hard axle]

every 800 kills as community = one body or one leg just from shards

we have 8m kills last week

I did calc and assuming he’s not lying about 85% completion

[true talon]

Yep shards being tradeable was not a good idea, I understand wanting profit from the boss without big drops or without going to 1k kills. But it’s not a good system for long term.

[hard axle]

That’s another 6000 pieces coming into acme

[hard axle]

Dude, fuck that

if the base rate was pre-nerf

It would’ve been fine

Shards drove the nerf

I keep telling people that if the base rate is fair, you don’t need BLP

[true talon]

They wanted shards to be tradeable so people don’t feel bad about having to commit to the boss to get a payout. However this is best way to keep the content relevant.

[hard axle]

People doing 5 kills don’t necessarily deserve part of the payout

[true talon]

It also interacted with the shale system

I’m at 1090 kills with 561 fragments and 5 helms

[hard axle]

Let them mine the shales for gp

This is like saying Araxxor should’ve dropped many small fangs used to make Rancour

[true talon]

Untradeable pieces with tradeable completetion is the healthiest

Everything that has tradeable pieces is basically worth fuck all

Voidwaker has a 2.3m blade lol

[small anvil]

VW is just dependent on which boss is hardest

[hard axle]

that’s exactly why I really like soulreaper

[true talon]

Just think how many Levi lures those bots got that aren’t entering the game

[small anvil]

Sra would be like 150m if tradeable

[hard axle]

Look how basically unbottable soulreaper is

even if you doubled the drop rate

It would still be 300-400m

Instead of 150m

[small anvil]

And having a quest to finish it is nice

[hard axle]

Having to do 3-4k boss to cash in should be the goal

[true talon]

Yep because to bot a sra you need 4 scripts with multiple gear sets which is more risk when banned.

[hard axle]

yep

sometimes, I do wish they would pull the plug and make shit untradeable, even if it pisses of merchers.

Luckily I didn’t get many VW pieces in my wildy pet grinds, but 2.3m for a blade and they really think it’s not a problem for a strong ass weapon to be 60m

[true talon]

Even if fragments went untradeable the only loss would be the person holding the shards would have to go craft the armor to get the payout

[hard axle]

It rivals whip just by whacking someone

[hard axle]

Unless they’re a Lv3 dirty ass skiller mercher

Then they get fucked

[true talon]

If just love to see some rat merchant have to go do 20 hours of shale lmfao

[hard axle]

The shale should’ve been untradeable too

zzzz

Idk man, they choose the wrong shit to balance around mains and don’t do it justice either because it conflicts with other balancing choices around irons and other game modes

[true talon]

When you make a BLP the resources need to be untradeable to preserve the end item

If you make the parts tradeable merchants buy up the parts and then assemble the item in mass to crush the price

[hard axle]

Just give me one week at the helm of OSRS balancing

I will rebalance this shit

[torpid delta]

no update tomorrow, it's 5 hours for scheduled maintenance. presumably there will be a normal update on wednesday, but we don't know what that will be.

[viscid cipher]

This is crazy drop

[tough nacelle]

Here me out though

SRA is only a problem because of ring mechanics

Get spooned axe piece? Might get more unusable parts going for ring

And vice versa

I know functionally it's the same as just one big drop

But it feels worse

SRA main benefit is that people have to commit to the boss to get it like an iron would

[hard axle]

Mhm, but that’s like saying if you get 10 axe pieces from 1 boss while pet hunting and then 2 in another pet hunt, that’s a problem with the design.

[sacred oracle]

nah, i just genuinely don't like the sra piece design

[tough nacelle]

I think pet hunting makes it weird, I get what you're saying

I think the 3 independent rolls make it less fun though

[sacred oracle]

it's frustrating to grind out the pets at those bosses and then at the end of it you have this:

[tough nacelle]

Because you might get the axe piece but always feel like you're 2/3

[hard axle]

Yeah well you like vorkath so you can be spanked

[sacred oracle]

i'm not saying it doesn't have a place in the game, but it's a super frustrating mechanic

[hard axle]

[sacred oracle]

having 400m locked up just randomly in needing more pieces

[tough nacelle]

If they did untradeable pieces and ring was just a one drop item/visible rolls I think it would be better

[hard axle]

but yeah, joking aside, I get it

[sacred oracle]

and also it throws of the mmg a ton, because it factors in the expected gph of being able to make an sra from each pieces, which isn't practical

[tough nacelle]

I think either or type of system

[hard axle]

only issue is traceability doesn’t work

voidwaker is a good example

[tough nacelle]

Yeah one piece becomes expensive

The rest fall into cheap category

Like dukes would be free because it's objectively the best pet

And easiest "boss"

[slender linden]

Im guessing oath contract got figured out now that it suddenly went back up?

[small anvil]

Gnome was apparently completing them, there's a screenshot with like 6 completions in a row

[slender linden]

Ha i almost sold me 4 at 55m today pfew

[shadow wave]

Gnome bought about 60 contracts at 55m and is working through them

Then he'll release the vid for the method

His method is abbout 80% consistent

[small anvil]

3.6b profit

Oh 80% is less profit so uh

2.4b profit ish?

[sacred oracle]

rich get richer

[small anvil]

I mean, the amount sacrificed to get the first clear

Doesn't make up for it yet

Granted it wasn't him

[viscid cipher]

I think drop rate should be lower

Feel like way easy to get the end game gear

[true talon]

Should have moved to the next boss after you got the axe piece and farmed the pet that way. Not camp a single boss and have 8 pieces. Spread the farming out.

[sacred oracle]

how would that make a difference: i left each when i got pet, it would have been same kc no matter what

[true talon]

You leave each one when you get the axe piece until completed axe. Even if you get pet you stay for the last axe piece :p

[small anvil]

What if you finish a boss

Pet on boss

Then you have to get kc without pet to get

It's the same difference

[rain fulcrum]

I actually really like the SRA piece design but I think the rarity of each piece is off

It's like... All of dt2 boss rates are designed around the intention to go clog every drop besides pet from all 4

Which I don't think is a healthy way to balance drop rates because then the axe rates make no sense

Especially if you get a vestige before the axe piece

[obsidian venture]

Wish more things followed the untradeable aspect till complete tbh

Would hold way more value

[fossil epoch]

Also a fan of not being able to trade

[true talon]

Hey I got this great game mode for you that disables all trade and you don’t care about the economy. However it comes with side effects of earning your progression and having to work towards anything you want to accomplish and requires the ultimate tism to accomplish some tasks.

[hard axle]

Yeah, instead you bitch and moan about needing to process resources, gathering resources that aren’t 10 hours usage with 1 hour of effort, needing dupe protection for everything, etc.

[obsidian venture]

I’d respect Irons more if they actually understood themselves the game mode that they play

Mickey Mouse Irons in 2025

[hard axle]

Meanwhile me slave making 100k surge pots because I can, not because I’ll use them all in this life time

If anyone wants to donate tallows to the 10m surge pot stack, lmk

[lament peak]

normies are the ultimate arbiters of the ironman experience

[true talon]

Never done this, i only complained about the lack of resources like d arrows/rev ether (i dont have a shortage of either, because i dont use what i got for fear of running out and needing more) Last time i ran out of rev ether i went an did 10k ork kills after already having all 3 weapons. i see these as problems, not my problems. i avoid causing myself problems by just not using the resources and when thats the case its clearly a problem. you shouldnt encourage people to not use things.

This same issue existed for blood runes, in which players wouldnt use scythe or sang due to the scarcity of having to hop every fucking world for 3 hours to buy blood runes. this is before they added blood rune crafting and before they finally added scar ess (thank god)

[lament peak]

ammo crafting soonge inshallah

god imagine if you could break down dragon armor and weapons in giants foundry for dragon bars

[true talon]

Mayne of us understand what we sign up for, which is why we still do it. but it still doesnt hurt to talk about pain points and try to bring about change. much like normies complaining about inflation and prices of items and how common they are. if you say nothing then nothing changes.

Maybe id respect normies more if they understood that not everything has to print gp and bots are going to control your economy regardless of what jagex does.

[hard axle]

You do #2 a lot

Maybe id respect irons more if they understood that not everything has to print resources and you have to deal with some grinds regardless of what Jagex does.

[sacred oracle]

begging you not help him turn this channel into irons vs mains again

[true talon]

I agree. somethings shouldnt print resources, but the resources should still exist outside of RNG.

Which currently my main complaint does not

[hard axle]

Except that’s every resource minus ones you can buy with gp and if you want to buy everything with gp, just play a main that you seem to shit on

[hard axle]

let’s go back to hating on Yama contracts and genomemankey

[sacred oracle]

gnomonkey, more like NOmonkey amirite

[tacit pendant]

delete ironman mode, but make everything in the clog untradeable

gl bronzeworld mode

[hard axle]

[lament peak]

so I can buy radiant oathplate on the ge?

[modest thorn]

make all irons pkable anywhere. its only fair

[tough nacelle]

Man people don't realize they can just not buy items as a main

[tiny otter]

then they'd have to ..yknow play the game

[hard axle]

bronze man mode exists

[tacit wharf]

u mean pk yr buddy so u can unlock an item mode

[hard axle]

And as long as you don’t leave Runelite, you’ll be locked in

[hard axle]

Yeah that needs to be optional as fuck

That is so stupid

Can’t wait for framed to start it again and just happen to get a bcp right when he wants one

[hasty shard]

REALLY wish you could just turn them in like the quartzes

that or idfk make the pieces tradable at this point lol

does sraxe neeeed to be 400m

id say its almost an outlier in gear progression considering its generally just worse than scythe

(and is basically the only weapon to have downsides)

[tacit wharf]

it is worse then scythe, thats why its only 400m

[hasty shard]

ecksdee

sorry meant to imply 400m in comparison to other not bis

400m and its worse than scythe, this thing is more expensive than scythe was for years

[tacit wharf]

because its more annoying to get

as the only mains that are getting sra are those who are cloggin the awakened bosses

[tacit pendant]

Post quest, nobody is clogging off awakened

[tacit wharf]

sorry meant dt2 normal bosses just

[tacit pendant]

Be really nice if you made your money back farming awakened

Atleast give a teritiary 100% 1-3 orb drop on awakened

[nocturne solstice]

Why would you make your money off a gp sink? 🤔

[small anvil]

Awakened isn't a gp sink ...

[tacit wharf]

could just roll non-unique table twice for an awakened kill

[small anvil]

Unless you mean death fees

[tacit pendant]

Awakened was never a gp sink?

[minor whale]

Awakened is a gp sink for the person using the orbs, but not a game gp sink

I believe is what Pingu meant

[tacit pendant]

But getting an average of 2 orbs per awakened kc would atleast make awakened duke or some shit an iron way of farming orbs ig

[nocturne solstice]

that defeats the point of the orbs tho

[jovial sentinel]

You want to get double what you spend on success?

[tacit pendant]

That doesnt?

[jovial sentinel]

You spend 1

[nocturne solstice]

What do you think the point of the orbs are?

[jovial sentinel]

You get 2?

[tacit pendant]

Orbs transfer money from people doing normal kc to mains chasing blorva

[jovial sentinel]

What is the point ot a cost if you immediately trivialise it?

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah so how does it transfer money if the people doing awakend get double orbs?

[jovial sentinel]

Most people doing awakened are succeeding.

[tacit pendant]

Because you atleast break even if you do succeed

[jovial sentinel]

So it would immediately crash prices.

[tacit pendant]

Bro most awakened fights are not sucess tf??

[nocturne solstice]

How does that transfer money though, that's unrelated.

[jovial sentinel]

Awakened is a bad mechanic. But that would be worse than removing the cost entirely

[tacit pendant]

It would affect like the 10 people who do more than 1 kc

[jovial sentinel]

The only reason more dont do it is because its not worth doing.

Make it worth doing and they will. But this doesnt really do that

Short term maybe

[tacit pendant]

Ok, so, breaking even on an awakened kc would be a slight improvement

[jovial sentinel]

But then prices crash and its not.

[nocturne solstice]

Well if we had your system then wouldnt it make it worth doing and those 10 people would become thousands of people?

[tacit pendant]

Is a thousand people getting multiple awakened kc a bad thing?

[jovial sentinel]

What you're suggesting is worse than just removing the cost altogether.

Which isnt necessarily a bad idea itself, but being worse than that is kinda hard

[tacit pendant]

And even 1000 people profiting 1 orb per awakened kc isnt gonna crash the economy, assuming they all have 100% success rate

[nocturne solstice]

Thousands of people who are good at awakened printing more orbs and transferring money upwards is a bad thing yes

as it goes against the whole design of the orbs

[jovial sentinel]

If you profit orbs, thats a lot of profit short term. The people that can will camp it till 8ts not profitable

[tacit pendant]

K awakened drops 1 orb on kill, not 1-3. Now irons can get orbs faster

[nocturne solstice]

How are they getting orbs faster and why are they doing this

They spent one, they get one, they go to the next boss?

[tacit pendant]

First of all on the crashing side. You get a kill then bank every 5 minutes at awakened vard. So like 3 mil in orbs getting 2 orbs average per kc. At current orb prices + average loot of even 10 vard kc an hour. Your looking at worse gp per hour than base vard

Assuming you have 0 travel time banking

An iron could atleast run awakened duke or something to target farm orbs

[jovial sentinel]

The point is that orbs keep price because when you use one, its gone.

If you use it and its not gone, the price now drops because it never left the econ.

If youre doubling the orb on kill, each kc doubles the orbs in the economy.

This is why price would crash.

[nocturne solstice]

I dont know what you mean by "3 mil in orbs getting 2 orbs average per KC" considering it's 840k per orb right now. If it's 2 orbs "average" per kc then you should "expect" 2 orbs per KC then. So thats 3 orbs for 3 mill, you get 6 orbs. 3 of em "refunds" your initial 3m and you have 3 more to sell. What do you mean?

[jovial sentinel]

You can say 'not all people are succeeding' or whatever, but if its profitable, it will inflate the orbs in the econ like crazyz because people will do it at 100% success rate. Its obvious there are people thst can.

[tacit pendant]

Kk. If you farm 10kc of awakened vard an hour. Spend 10 orbs, get 20 orbs, profit 8mil + average loot of 4 mil from normal drops. Puts a 100% success rate gamer almost exactly in line with just killing normal vard

[jovial sentinel]

But most people doing it wont be 10% rate gamers.

[tacit pendant]

This is all asauming you never die

[jovial sentinel]

People wanting to profit will be 100%, and will be a vast majority of those doing it.

There are many people that can do it without dying tho

And they will.

Think. The price is based on its current rate into econ.

[nocturne solstice]

How are you getting this "almost exactly in line with just killing normal vard" bit? Your suggestion should just be average gp per vard KC + orb price for awakened.

[jovial sentinel]

Adding a 100% chance will shit them out

[tacit pendant]

Yup so if price goes literally any lower, its better to do normal vard

[jovial sentinel]

It will never be worth it to do normal

Wat

[nocturne solstice]

Why? Because your entry cost would be lower too

[tacit pendant]

Awakened vard takes longer jfc

[jovial sentinel]

With that in mind.

[nocturne solstice]

So you'd still profit

[tacit pendant]

You wanna show me a vid of you hitting 30kc awakened vard an hour to be in line with current normal vard farming be my guest.

[nocturne solstice]

Why would we use me when we can just check out some vid times of people that do farm awakened vard?

[small anvil]

People farm awakened for fun, not profit

I wouldn't tie the profit to orbs tho

[tacit pendant]

People dont farm for fun, outside of like 3 youtubers

[small anvil]

Cuz too many people doing that just kills the profit

[nocturne solstice]

yeah i agree with that. Aside from the whole selling orbs to people wanting to do awakened that is

[small anvil]

Bane has like 35 KC at awakened

He didn't do 2-35 for profit

[tacit pendant]

And kills are about 4 mins, then you bank. Youre looking at 15kph max. If you broke even just getting a single orb per kc. Atleast you can kinda donit for SOME profit

And irons COULD target farm

[nocturne solstice]

Why would they target farm?

Is this trying to make a reason to target farm?

[tacit pendant]

Have you not been present in the chat? People have been upset they cant target farm orbs on their iron for the last 4 weeks with contracts discussion.

[small anvil]

Irons?

[nocturne solstice]

I have only seen you talking about this tbh

[tacit pendant]

Youve seen no complaints that orbs are not accessible on ironmen accounts?

[nocturne solstice]

Before you brought this up they were talking about SRA?

[tacit pendant]

Wild

[nocturne solstice]

Oh so it wasnt in chat

You just mean irons in osrs in general have a hard time farming orbs

[small anvil]

I don't think the complaints about orbs was saying that contracts was better cuz of demon farming

If anything I think people were more annoyed by it

[tacit pendant]

Yeah demon farming is dumb

[nocturne solstice]

I dont know why you want to tie them to awakaned then since it makes no sense. They'd farm more orbs faster by just increasing the drop rate at normal?

Like you said, more kc/hr too so more orbs

[tacit pendant]

I mean if its 1 per kc and you dont profit than yes, youd be better off farming normal for orbs

[nocturne solstice]

So is this for profit or for irons needing orbs then

[tacit pendant]

If its 1-2 (1.5) you profit some orbs, 1-3 and profit is approaching killing the normal boss at current price and kph

[hasty shard]

agreed, should be break even at most

[tacit pendant]

Break even at the very least gives people farming for fun a break. Because losing 800k per kc and then profiting and average of 350k is not it

[small anvil]

Making it be a source of orbs is silly imo

[hasty shard]

wouldnt even mind if it was just break even on gp/h

[small anvil]

Unless the goal is for orbs to go down in price

Refund guaranteed and profitable to kill is all it needs I think?

[tacit pendant]

I mean again. At current prices even a 1-3 orb drop has you at current vard gp per hour for way more work and blood fury is a must have.

Id be more inclined to just say break even on the W, but i dont think the other suggestions were INSANE

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah I wouldnt mind it being refund on KC. It'll eat into the profits sure but not tooo much I hope

[hasty shard]

they didnt meet the mark with how yama does it i think the pin needs to be pushed slightly further

like slightly

as it stands yama just refunds contract and you get no drop

[small anvil]

Rewards should not be denominated in orbs is all

[tacit pendant]

Yeah

Break even on orb is a QOL for hlc and that would be kinda cool i think

[hasty shard]

break even is a buff for duke/wisp pet hunting

pleae

[tacit pendant]

Perfect make pet hunters sweat

[hasty shard]

i want to!!

[hard axle]

Please

I beg

10x pet rate from awakened orbs

[hasty shard]

both of them are so unbelievably brain off

ok yeah sure 10x

my brain was saying asking for 5x was too much but w/e

[hard axle]

4x hp and 4x difficulty warrants 10x ye

It’s like cg being 5x for 2x hp

[tacit pendant]

Technically, at refund orb for kill. You could profit on the natty orb drop lol

[hasty shard]

erm actually its not 4x for all the bosses

[tacit pendant]

Unironically, yama could use an hp buff. Out dpsing every orb phase is lame design

[hasty shard]

eh

orbs are already nothing cause of orb skipping

[tacit pendant]

Not during enrage

[hasty shard]

enrage is and theres infinite cycles n stuff for that anyways

[tacit pendant]

I mean yeah

But infinite cycle is more work than, v1 donofly and dpsing to skip

All im saying is. Its even more easy in max than it should be

[vivid ruin]

Make horn useful and remove def reduce cap in toa plea jagex

[tiny epoch]

i think they should not make scy bis at toa

[hard axle]

[tender harness]

delete scythe crush

[austere mulch]

Make horn work with first roll of claws, as polled
Make horn give +100% accuracy to mage and range combat styles; only giving guaranteed hit for melee on NPCs
Add some sort of solo functionality to horn

Ezpz

[rain fulcrum]

Can even just say that the 100% acc don't stack with zcb

[true talon]

Biggest issue with orbs is it gate keeps attemping the boss, same with contracts. if they took the same approach they about to take with bryo and obor with keys unlocking a chest after the boss defeat and that boss themself drops the keys, this system woulda worked out way better. fact its entry key per attempt is the reason contracts and orbs fail.

So they can do two things. Allow 3rd party simulations for free practice (they always shut these down) or delete orbs.

[tiny epoch]

only change I'd want to see to orbs is using the ornament kit as an infinite orb

[true talon]

This doesnt fix the problem, it only benefits those with blood torva already.

[tiny epoch]

correct

have there been simulators for awakened bosses?

I know about zuk & sol sims but they're still up

[true talon]

The guy who made zuk/sol sims was working on them, but they got a warning from jagex

Project Zanaris woulda done the samething as well lol.

[vivid ruin]

Thats pretty lame tbh

[tiny epoch]

have to practice awakened on leagues

that is pretty wack

[true talon]

Yea they werent all unlocked and you needed orbs to even fight them lmao.

also with leagues dps /tankyness the bosses just fell over.

[tiny epoch]

if you wanted to use leagues to practice you definitely could

have to pick ur regions around it of course

[true talon]

Ya but thats such an awful expierence, they also disable awakened on beta worlds. literally they remove any means to actually learn the content.

[cursive vector]

Claw horn thing is an actual scam, was polled one way than just changed for absolutely no reason

[tiny epoch]

changed because jagex saw people using horn other than its intended purpose (landing hammers and nothing else at all)

[dreamy fractal]

15 minuets early

[cedar solar]

what's the update for

[dreamy fractal]

data center migration the launcher said

https://i.imgur.com/270mNHt.png

[cedar solar]

lame

[river forge]

wow

thats a long time