#pvp-discussion

1 messages · Page 7 of 1

wooden basin
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For 3 sips of brew per 1 restore

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Sanfew is nice for extra prayer with pvp because also antipoison

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Also if you spend enough time at agility course you'll meet my buddy "evil ace" lol

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Bros getting 99 agility there and pulls in hella keys

languid oracle
robust warren
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Supp, my acc actually have 60atk, 82str, 83rng and 81hp...

How can i make this a strong baby bounty hunter acc. Any changes?

winged thorn
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I don’t understand the hive mind

granite sphinx
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"As long as pvp remains how it is, we will never see a wilderness quest line, new bosses, items, or lore." i cant believe they think this is something we would even want if pvp were removed from the wildy lol

winged thorn
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What’s the point of a wildy quest line if there’s no PvP

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O_O

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Might as well be doing a quest in varrock!

languid oracle
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OP of that post is saying "this is why it's dead, pkers can't budge on these issues"

wooden basin
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Whats nice, though, is that pvp is starting to get attention and hopefully changes follow (not to nerf it for skillers but for fun)

latent relic
wide crater
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Pkers only wanna kill for your loot…. Well yeah

winged thorn
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I appreciate framed putting out a video or w/e, but he’s literally just enabled the anti-PvP crowd even more

rancid dirge
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Has trinity post final zone in lms always been bugged? Some guy was just camping a safespot and the only way to attack him is to go in the fog

winged thorn
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Got people pointing to his video as like “the source” for the “fix” of PvP sadbee

wide crater
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Idk why people will never understand, there will never be only one source for every fix. Everyones quick to agree with whatever benefits them the most but not the activity as a whole

granite sphinx
winged thorn
rancid dirge
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What would your "solution" be @winged thorn

granite sphinx
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re-establish an actual food chain, rather than have pvmers be the source of "food" for 99% of pkers

winged thorn
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That’s just 1 example

winged thorn
granite sphinx
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ameen

winged thorn
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Really I think a big issue is the reward isn’t worth the risk

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Ppl say regearing or rebanking is the issue, but I think rly its dying

wooden basin
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The wildy is a huge part of the game that is constantly ignored like a redhead stepchild. All things that would benefit the wildy tremendously: Bring back multi revs, nuke pj timer, ability to deactivate def raising attack styles, don’t add a teleporting delay on restock, pls stop listening to streamers on everything pvpwise+ reduce the worlds where wildy is open, expand the wildy map, add more building structure, add singles ++ between multi and singles.

Look what i saved ^ lmfao

echo harness
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both are insufferable

rancid dirge
winged thorn
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😭

rancid dirge
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it doesnt have to be 50 you could just have 2 dudes spec tabbing you lol

languid oracle
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Skulls pjing skulls would definitely be the best option

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As far as preventing constant stalemates between 2 maxed mains

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If you have thumbs and decent knowledge of how to avoid dying, rev caves are 100% safe

winged thorn
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I think rn the system we have allows for pkers to farm pvmers indiscriminately

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W/o anyone stopping them

granite sphinx
wooden basin
winged thorn
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In the old wildy, I never risked more than like 4-5m because I knew where I stood in the food chain l0l

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Now in singles I just freeze & hug

wide crater
granite sphinx
winged thorn
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Surely the pkers/baits would

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But, would teams?

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Ykwim

granite sphinx
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i mean there was a time where rev caves was singles+ and the rest of the wildy was regular singles

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and it was still more active back then lol

winged thorn
wide crater
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Yea exactly, i think so but not 100% sure. I think some teams would some probably wouldn’t

winged thorn
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I remember thinking it was gonna be good because I wouldn’t get pj’d by npc’s

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Oh how I was wrong

granite sphinx
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but kinda made it fun cuz you really needed some help to get kills

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and then gave you a reason to make friends

winged thorn
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MMO ✨

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Doesn’t colo basically do what framed’s video does

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Idk how putting 1 person against 3-4 tick perfect npc’s gets them ready for pvp :v

granite sphinx
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it doesnt lol

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thats the problem w/ the video

wooden basin
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Yeah tbh we dont need another minigame

rancid dirge
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I'm indifferent to your suggestions since I don't plan on joining a singles team, but how would that bring new pkers? I think thats the purpose of Framed's vid @winged thorn

granite sphinx
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its safer in numbers, you have more kill potential (not to mention its just more fun to play alongisde others)

winged thorn
# rancid dirge I'm indifferent to your suggestions since I don't plan on joining a singles team...

Framed’s video completely misses the mark. It’s not referred to as any kind of holy grail by anyone who engages in PvP. (At least that I’ve spoken to)
The return of old singles wouldn’t be for new pkers off the bat. It would be for teams that have left the game for private servers.
Currently, the system allows for pker to attack pvmer. If a 3rd party player say a pker logs in & wants to fight the other pker, there’s nothing that enables that. Thus, causing a break in the food chain

wooden basin
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I think 1 thing thats easily forgotten is the ability to make friends with the people who kill you

rancid dirge
winged thorn
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It may seem far fetched, but many of randoms have become friends by pking together in wildy

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I mean that’s literally my story of how I started to pk, and then deciding to join a pk clan

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Some random helped me at chins, added me, we pk’d, I joined his clan

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History

granite sphinx
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also thats why i was saying there was a time rev caves was singles+ and the rest of the wildy was real singles if they wanted to do that too

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and when we talk "singles team" like 95% of them are not like discord teams lol, its just 1-2 randoms who run into each other and start pking together lol

languid oracle
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I'm not in a team of any sort, never did any sort of pking or pvping at all until a couple years ago was bored of pvm and gave it a try

800 kills later I'm still shit but it's a blast and never boring except when I'm hopping 200 times to find 3 bots

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If a skulled person could PJ another skulled person you'd have so many more fights and pvmers living

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I'll hop worlds and find a guy in black d'hide and rcb fighting a pvmer just spam clicking hoping I'll be able to get on the pker

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I always say "run multi" and the 1% of the time they do the pker just logs out

winged thorn
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You never know when it’s some stinky RoT guy!

wide crater
wooden basin
languid oracle
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I've only had a single time when I followed a guy out of Calvarion towards Corp, and 80 RoT got on me and spammed #rot constantly until I was dead while dspeared
Didn't even smite me somehow, probably because I was only 70hp and 99 prayer when they started falling in

wide crater
languid oracle
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They did also spam "thanks for the VW" and then I died for 800k it was very funny
10k a piece yahoooo

winged thorn
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Set myself up for that one by saying stinky sadbee

wooden basin
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I had VH smite my nally a month or so ago. I havent bought one since lol. The blank spot in my bank is a reminder

wide crater
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I have lost many many plus ones before i knew what i was doing, i was pking in 5 man teams and fidnt know what macing was

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Learned that and brought orb. Still didnt know about accept aid

winged thorn
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My bad bro

wide crater
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Like 3 years ago begore i joined a clan, i got maced like 12x in less than a month 😂 by dr, rot, and vh

winged thorn
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Respect for not quitting

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Many would’ve typed a 4k word Reddit post

rancid dirge
winged thorn
wide crater
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Well tbf i try to think logically not emotionally LOL. Obv it sucks when it happens, but for every shitty thing that can happen, there HAS to be a counter.

winged thorn
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If you are skulled fighting a defenseless pvmer & I am skulled, I can hit you at any time

rancid dirge
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so yall just want rushing back lol

winged thorn
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How does what I am saying allude to that at all!

wide crater
winged thorn
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Didn’t matter if you were or weren’t skilled

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Skulled

granite sphinx
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but yeah there wasnt like a 12s timer where you could just logout lol

wide crater
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I mean what are you referring to now, cus if im attacking a pvmer im 100% ok with getting pjd. If im fighting another pker and im alone i dont wanna fight him and all his friends ideally

granite sphinx
winged thorn
winged thorn
rancid dirge
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if non skull is hitting you back their should be a timer tho

winged thorn
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It helps the Reddit hive mind

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But doesn’t really help the pker who’s alone

winged thorn
granite sphinx
winged thorn
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But if A & B are fighting, C can’t do anything

rancid dirge
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yeah that more reasonable than anytime

winged thorn
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That’s how the wildy worked

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Like 4 years ago

rancid dirge
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i.e if non skull was a pker who didnt want to skull

winged thorn
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You’re a clanner 😭

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How the heck you forgetti

rancid dirge
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i think its longer

winged thorn
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Perhaps

rancid dirge
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since thats changed

winged thorn
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I just recognize your name

rancid dirge
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i never pked in old singles

winged thorn
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& saw we had a lot of mutual

rancid dirge
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yeah you used to rag me

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lmao

winged thorn
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We do a little bit of that sometimes

rancid dirge
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before you joined rot

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more mellow now it seems

winged thorn
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Sorry didn’t mean to derail convo. If someone ever suggested this anywhere they’d definitely have to go over the specifics w/o it just being blasted down w/ no hope

wooden basin
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I think its a fair agreeable suggestion across the board though

winged thorn
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The only one it impacts negatively is the pker who doesn’t wanna get falled-in on for his dcb

rancid dirge
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Yeah and if it ends up being bad jagex can always just revert updates like they did with BH 😅

wide crater
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I mean, imo i think as long as there were still areas where you could have proper 1v1s i wouldn’t personally care if they removed pj timer. Id be good with either removing it altogether or having it where theres only a timer if both ppl are fighting. I just dont think id like it if all or nothing was the only option

winged thorn
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Designated zones would be interesting & would make it so ppl could still pk w/ singles+ mechanics

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I think we’d be more likely to get it passed w/ pkers if this was the compromise

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But then you’d have to figure what “zones” would be for mechanics as they are now & for the changes we are talking about

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Idk no easy fix

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I don’t blame jaggy ignoring PvP, I wouldn’t wanna touch it with a 10ft pole

wide crater
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Yep, like it was mentioned i dont think there is a “one size fits all” fix for this. No matter what it’s impossible to satisfy everyone, and the best ideas arent gonna come from one person. Hopefully one day someone can come look at this chat as well as others and take all the best ideas from everyone

latent relic
granite sphinx
latent relic
winged thorn
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So you’d have the pj timer protect the pker

latent relic
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Skulled vs skulled there is

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But if I'm skulled and attack a non skulled I can be pjed

winged thorn
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That’s a really interesting point

latent relic
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Would give an opportunity for another pker to hop on someone attacking a unskulled pvmer

winged thorn
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Because you’re right, the system I suggested does nothing for the solo pker

latent relic
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I'd love to be able to arpk again

wide crater
wooden basin
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Isnt that what we were just talking about?

winged thorn
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What Scott is saying is slightly different

latent relic
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Yeah so if you attack someone unskulled and I can pj you but if the person you attack is skulled I cant

wooden basin
winged thorn
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Instead of skull pj skull

wooden basin
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I see

winged thorn
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Skull pj skull fighting pvmer

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Hopefully that makes sense l0l

wide crater
winged thorn
latent relic
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Yeah

winged thorn
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Wouldn’t have to change it

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I like this idea!

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Pogger

latent relic
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Would only apply if your skulled

winged thorn
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But as we know we don’t have to like it, the bastards on Reddit do

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We need a PR person from the pvm scene

fringe fjord
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make multi zones migrate through the wilderness at random + spawn npcs that tb/spear/mace you.

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so people have to stay on edge for risk reward ratio

latent relic
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That sounds way to close to early revs days

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When the wildy died

wooden basin
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I liked the idea that there was a wilderness sensor for big clans that would get ragged by random revenant forces if the sensors for it were going off

winged thorn
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Migrating multi would be such a headache for anyone who’s new lmao

fringe fjord
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it was a joke.

winged thorn
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Would be free +1s for mine

wide crater
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Just get one of those guys to afvocate for us

fringe fjord
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almost all pkers are decent at pvm since you need unlocks from it

winged thorn
fringe fjord
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would argue the average pker is probably better at pvm than the average pvmer

wooden basin
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You also are automatically half decent with gear/prayer switches lol

winged thorn
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I’d agree with you for sure

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Now keep that opinion away #old-school or you’ll have a few ppl letting a have it kekw

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I think pkers are much better at brute forcing pvm l0l

fringe fjord
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only reason people struggle so much to get into pvp is because they're also bad at pvm

wide crater
wooden basin
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They're too used to bank standing, afk skilling, etc

fringe fjord
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if you can doom past level 6 you can pk

wooden basin
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They'd rather do slayer than get better

wide crater
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If you cant react to guaranteed mechanics, youre not prepared for someone being unpredictable

winged thorn
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Well said

wide crater
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I will say tho, i know some dudes that are absolutely cracked when theyre fighting in white portal or somewhere else safe. But they get nervous and drop the ball bad when theres actual risk involved

glacial gate
wooden basin
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Im ngl im still trying to make it make sense in my head lol

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Im a picture book hands on type 😭

wide crater
wooden basin
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Pls

winged thorn
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A 💀 vs B Pvmer
B 💀 attack A 💀
B Pvmer free to run escape etc

wide crater
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Im a usmc vet, gotta break this shit down barney style for me 😂

winged thorn
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Originally our idea was
A 💀 pjing B 💀

wooden basin
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Basically as long as pvmer doesnt attk he is safe to run

winged thorn
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Which is what singles + fixed

wooden basin
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Ahhh

fringe fjord
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people keep asking for wandering revs i swear theyve never actually dealt with them before it was so terrible searching for them and theyd always randomly pop up while you were doing something else

winged thorn
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So instead of skull pj skull
Skull A attack unsk pvm
Skull B logs in & can only pj if skull is fighting unsk

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Yeah tbh pictures would help

wooden basin
winged thorn
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L0l

fringe fjord
wooden basin
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Yeah or that lmao

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Every 3 players = 1 bowfa elf ;p

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In multi

winged thorn
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Imagine 2 clans fighting & they get wiped by the crystal bow npc army

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😭

wooden basin
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That'd be fucking gold

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(Unless you're involved)

winged thorn
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Mfer I’m in the biggest multi clan ofc I’m involved kekw kekw

wide crater
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Lmfao im boutta have 20 alts there unskulled picking up all our loot

wooden basin
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Looool

winged thorn
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Toss bond & remember me when you are rich

wide crater
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Ask finishzuelan he got my claws when i went to high risk last year for christmas 😂

wooden basin
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I feel like thats a mechanic people would like though. You always see people complaining about big clans in multi

winged thorn
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I’m really not sure how you can “fix” big clans in multi

wooden basin
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There isnt any way without making it singles ++ or something restricting. Which sort of sucks tbh

winged thorn
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Also, without the mechanic ass cheeks for actual clan fights that happen in wild

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I could totally see the crystal elf army of npc’s wiping 2 pure clans

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Like no problem l00

wooden basin
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That'd be a popular youtube video Kekekekek

wide crater
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Im ngl i feel like jagex should do that for April fools or something now just bc of how funny it would be

wooden basin
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"Bowfa elfs clear pure clans deep wildy!" Floating Camera showing elfs pjing everyone

winged thorn
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“They’re guaranteed to drop really good loot. But good luck escaping!”

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Some shit like that would be fun ngl

wide crater
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Shit if you have them randomly spawn like the rev boss would also still be hilarious. Imagine hopping around lookinf for your ops and get one banged cus you hop into them. Would affect main clans the same way at that point

wooden basin
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Yeah gl smite clans

winged thorn
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Fkn RUN

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BAIL

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SCRAM

wide crater
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“World 337 got a team, OH WAIT DONT COME DONT COME”

glacial gate
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its the dang elf raggers again

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i deal with enough crybows

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dont make the npcs do it to me too

wide crater
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Imagine the skull tricking, ima go unskulled and hide in the crowd

glacial gate
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skull tricking is dead for 99% of the most part because of the ironman friendly button they added

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albeit it still works occasionally.

wide crater
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Ironically enough i made BANK at the most dead wilderness content

fringe fjord
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and as they fall to the rag army they spam glow3:wave : LOG INNNN #CRYSTALPACK OUT #elfseason BOWFA CHECK #crystalcontrol WE BROUGHT THE WHOLE GROVE #naturediff

wide crater
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LOLOLOL imagine getting a fallin spam from npcs

winged thorn
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I’d quit

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You mean npc’s just spammed at me after cleared me!

glacial gate
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#NPCGANG

winged thorn
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Gg

fringe fjord
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whole bunch already waiting at edge spawn with cyan: scroll : TY 4 SETS #LOG IN #LOG IN ROUND2? SAME WORLD BTW #SPAWNCHECK

winged thorn
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Ruthless npc’s

fringe fjord
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reminds me of the dudes in f2p who just have several accounts with 99 defence 60 ranged and rag you with those until they run out of wines and then bring their alt that's also 99 defence 60 ranged and spam cyan: brb toilet

wooden basin
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If they did add this to wildy you think thatd be beneficial? Even my smaller team would get ragged by 1 or 3

glacial gate
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not in the least lol

wooden basin
winged thorn
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I think it would cause a headache for small teams considering Jagex’s coding issues most the time :c

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And then you wouldn’t see a fix for months after

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& it would probably be scrapping all of it kekw

glacial gate
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"My #1 rival is the damn npc pkers"

wooden basin
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Damn bowfa elf stole my nally

fringe fjord
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you can even make it realistic, since they're npcs and thus have access to the internal resources you can even make the elves doxx players if they lose

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this makes them try harder otherwise they spam their billing info

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logging out also causes this

glacial gate
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lmao. imagine if that happened in raids and shit.

fringe fjord
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also its not healthy for the game if pvp and pvm mechanics vary too much

glacial gate
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You planked 3x here's your social for everyone to read around you.

fringe fjord
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as a result the npc's should also follow you if you leave the wilderness to pvm

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and grief you the entire time

glacial gate
winged thorn
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I agree with that for sure. Really what we are trying to do is solve a issue for the pkers who do know how to pk

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At least, that’s what we were doing when discussing the pj thing

fringe fjord
glacial gate
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oh no i stand a better chance against ahkers by having a moment quicker freezes lmao

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meanwhile pvmers entire spellbook is one thrall button and deathcharge

winged thorn
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I think the biggest struggle for new pkers is switching to mage & then casting a freeze

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It would help the noobs for sure peepognomeblush

glacial gate
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even as a long time pker i can't 1t freezes realiably 100% of the time lmao

winged thorn
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Nahh neither can I, I just make due without kekw

wooden basin
fringe fjord
winged thorn
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Sure & then reduce tick delay with items like ice sceptre

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What a compromise scronglyshake

fringe fjord
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no tick delay for ice sceptre but it randomly freezes your own character at 10% chance

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and deals 50 damage

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higher fm level lowers it

glacial gate
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the bots dont have tick delay. ive seen incredible things from men in a magic shortbow and black d'hide

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1t entirely naked into a barrage corner hug

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its honestly impressive

winged thorn
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1t remove every piece of gear, catch a freeze, hug next tick

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It is incredible huh

glacial gate
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wish i could learn that tech lol

tropic root
tropic root
# winged thorn I’m really not sure how you can “fix” big clans in multi

I have some solutions

I once suggested 6 player wildy teams with a new type of combat zone besides singles and multi - team combat zones where 1 team can attack 1 team.

They could expand deep wildy (past the gate) and have places that are designed for clan gameplay and are multi.

Then areas before that are split between single and team combat. Basically, low level to mid level wildy is single and teams, deep wildy is full ffa multi.

That's the tl;dr of the idea, but something like "team combat" is an extremely in-depth system that can't be explained shortly. Though I have written that if you wanna read :)

A nice example of some clan wildy thing I heard was having a castle a clan can occupy that other clans can try to siege. And the castle has some nice benefits for being occupied in the wildy.

I vouch for a nerf to d-spear and ancient mace. If you get hit by 4 dspear specs, you become immune to it for a minute. If you get hit by two ancient mace specs, (prayer drain effect) you become immune to it for a minute.

wooden basin
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I think d spear is fine, but ancient mace with big clanning is insane

glacial gate
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Dont touch ancient mace.

tropic root
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why?

glacial gate
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Its been a mechanic for years and deserves to stay one. Its one of the only anti-rag mechanics big clans have left in the game.

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Wanna rag us? Okay but we're taking the item you're abusing.

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and if you don't know how to counter a mace get back out in the wilderness and learn! Its easily counterable.

tropic root
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How do I counter 30 people piling me aside from completely avoiding multi?

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Doesn't seem obvious to me!

glacial gate
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Get out in the wilderness and learn! or i could spell it out for you since you don't seem to understand at all.

tropic root
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I asked for a reason

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I haven't played in many years and came back yesterday

glacial gate
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Not just accepting there is counterplay from someone who utilizes it, is crazy work.

tropic root
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Okay, and what is the counterplay?

glacial gate
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@winged thorn gonna mace me if i say it 😛

winged thorn
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I don’t want to cherry pick & I plan to respond back to the whole message after work, as there are some interesting points. But the only reason I’d say leave the mace alone is: it rewards a clan for being organized & imo is the only way we are still rewarding big clans for being organized

glacial gate
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the most common easiest way is freezing them as they come to mace you 😛

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There are only like 5 other methods though

winged thorn
glacial gate
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I will say rot is the hardest clan to antimace as their rush maces get rid of 3 of the 5 methods of counterplay.

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Either way point is as you utilize the wilderness more you'll learn these methods 😛

winged thorn
glacial gate
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Maybe join a clan and they may have the knowledge too.

tropic root
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Hmmm I have thoughts on all this but my ideas are generally super wordy and very intertwined with each other xD

winged thorn
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We love PvP so we will read it & provide any feedback I promise

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We just wanna discuss peepognomeblush

brazen fox
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Especially if u already in multi and they doing a fall in mace

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Click orb 3 times

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Impossible to get smited

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Literally

tropic root
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the special attack orb? xD

brazen fox
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Locator orb

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Reduce ur hp

tropic root
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ah

brazen fox
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If ur hp is <80% of ur prayer points u cant get maced

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Plus u account for someone freezing u and that doing damage, maybe the mace fails and their dpser has to get the kill with only smite etc

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Legit just click orb a few times and they’ll switch targets

tropic root
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I see I see

I have another fundamental question - does clan vs clan stuff happen much nowadays in the wilderness

Or is it all just clans ganging up on smaller groups or solo players as things often seem to be portrayed in discussions

brazen fox
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Clans war all the time

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Like at least once a week afaik (not a clannie)

tropic root
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in both clan wars and wildy I presume?

brazen fox
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Just wildy I think

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I think clan wars portal is dead content

tropic root
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oh funky

glacial gate
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Clan wars is for noobs who have gear fear.

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We don't participate in that.

winged thorn
# tropic root I have some solutions I once suggested 6 player wildy teams with a new type of ...

I like the idea of having things for clans to fight over, areas, buffs to damage would be cool,
Breach style pvm? Who knows, it could be endless.
As a multi pker, I hate the idea of me potentially losing some hotspots, though. I’m not sure how to guarantee the team that’s deep in multi the same action that is perhaps in the “lower zones”
This would also force PvP clans to do battles really really deep on multi, right? I think this would make any pure fight extremely easy to rag/end. most pure clan battles happen in like 10-20 wild so they can be left alone (for the most part) by mains / meds.
Not poo-pooing on it, hopefully you don’t see it as that. But it immediately brought those couple of issues to mind :]

winged thorn
glacial gate
#

make wilderness past the gate ffa multi. can attack any combat level.

tropic root
glacial gate
#

Pures deserve to be bullied.

winged thorn
#

I agree kekw

glacial gate
#

so do ironmen

tropic root
winged thorn
#

At this point tbh, I think the PvP crowd would like anything to be tried to make the wildy more engaging

tropic root
#

Well

glacial gate
#

little do the pvm timmies know that i as well will pvm in multi revs and then kill pkers that hit me.

#

Ecosystem is important.

#

If anyone is considdered "Prey" it is their own fault.

#

Anyone who says they're "Prey" in the wilderness are so blissfully unaware.

#

you're not prey. You're a loose cannon with 4 insane items ready to wreak havoc on any idiot dumb enough to touch you.

winged thorn
#

Pardon the ping but credit is due

glacial gate
#

they have hella advantage as anti'ers

#

catch me in my zcb/ely/korasi/toxic staff setup I DARE YOU

winged thorn
#

I DO NOT wanna catch you on that setup on god

glacial gate
#

XD XD

tropic root
winged thorn
granite sphinx
tropic root
glacial gate
#

stopping the addition of so many arbitrary wilderness only rules definitely would help that foodchain.

brazen fox
#

Typically lose a couple slots tho so you have no chance of outlast

#

Ik a guy that bought a vw near release and did rev anti pk with it

#

Made over 1b

#

Ppl should def try it more, it doesn’t really change ur risk as a pvmer

#

30mins into anti pking revs I pk’d barrows max

#

It’s dumb how little u risk

minor aspen
tropic root
#

Ever since the release of Oldschool Runescape I feel like I've just read 13 years straight of "pvp is bad" lol

And at this point Jagex has tried everything except the elephants in the room

wooden basin
#

Its funny because pvp in any game is normally what makes the game good

#

The pvm/storyline is just extra

tropic root
#

OSRS PvP has extremely huge untapped potential, but both Jagex and the community are stuck in a mindset that prevents experimentation because it won't pass the voting system or will be waste of dev time

#

The potential is huge especially if you start thinking outside of the box of what you already see PvP as or what you feel it should be based on how it used to be

#

But how many more years do we need of "PvP is dying" before Jagex and the community are really willing to try something different

granite sphinx
tropic root
#

oh yea I remember stuff like that

#

in like 2010 and before

granite sphinx
#

was like up to 2021

tropic root
#

what stopped it?

glacial gate
#

teaming on people in singles is bad design regardless of when it was or how many engaged w/ it.

#

Freeze log/dd meta is absolute dogshit though

glacial gate
#

its just an advancement of gear fear in favor of multi style fighting in singles.

granite sphinx
#

when they made the pj timer it killed all of that and made singles basically into just pvmer -> hunter by pker dynamic

glacial gate
#

or hunter v hunter which also takes place all the time that we don't speak about.

granite sphinx
tropic root
glacial gate
tropic root
#

OH you mean the pj timer blocks trading

glacial gate
#

They're afraid to run around in their full ancestral giga nowadays because they can't have jimbob box em off w/ an alt account anymore

tropic root
#

I see I see

granite sphinx
tropic root
#

The PJ timer was added to "prevent" rushing after you just killed someone, right?

granite sphinx
#

id usually never risk more than like 3m before but now i can risk 700 and be ok

glacial gate
#

very backwards from tons of people.

granite sphinx
#

same way they been trying to ruin the rest of the game

glacial gate
#

the ironmen ruining the game isn't in the same cadence here.

#

but im sure they're involved.

tropic root
#

I wouldn't say it's wrong to do things for "solo" players, but I think equal love needs to be given to them, and small teams, and clans

granite sphinx
fringe fjord
#

what if instead of trying to fix pvp we just teach all pkers how to play checkers

wooden basin
#

They should expand the wild, add more building structure, add a singles ++ between singles and multi, and reduce the amount of wilderness world access

granite sphinx
#

we cant afford more expansion in th wildy, theres already not evnough ppl for how big it is

#

oh sorry didnt read

#

reading is very hard

glacial gate
#

reduction in world count is peak suggestion that i've parroted for years.

#

especially post sailing release

tropic root
#

I see I see

That bit about what PJ timer hurt is useful to know tho!

So, to fix PKing in general

Jagex and the community cannot just tunnel vision "one problem" and make a solution to that "one problem"

PKing is a huge, intertwined system of many things and any solution or fix to it needs to have a LOT of different things in mind

Otherwise, we are fixing problems by creating problems for other parts of the system

For example the PJ timer

fringe fjord
#

its not hard to make pvp updates pass polls they don't really suffer from spite voting when they're instanced

#

only wilderness shit suffers from spite votes because its not instanced

glacial gate
#

just make pvp polls require 500 wildernes kills.

#

boom wow all the shit opinioners are vetted out for the most part

fringe fjord
#

wilderness content affects people that dont pk so they wont ever do that

glacial gate
#

if you dont interact why should you have a say type shit

tropic root
fringe fjord
#

instanced pvp shit doesnt affect people outside of the instance

glacial gate
#

i dont vote on ironman polls lol

#

voting and chatting are different things friend.

#

you know this.

granite sphinx
tropic root
glacial gate
#

Your current viewpoint is to undereducated to vote truthfully atp.

tropic root
#

I disagree!

glacial gate
#

You don't even know about anti-macing mechanics.

#

Im just syaing

#

your view point is way off.

tropic root
#

You don't know my whole viewpoint, and it's a long one to explain

glacial gate
#

you made a reddit post 3 years ago and just came back. but macings been around for years upon years upon years.

#

So no i don't need your whole viewpoint. I can pinpoint your expertise already.

#

Experience speaks.

tropic root
#

Sure, but I'm seeing a bit of close-mindedness here. You're pinning everything I say on one point that I have more robust reasoning about, but you won't hear it because I don't know as much niche stuff about the wildy as you.

For the average player the solution to macing is just to do anything other than go near multi. Not the ideal solution of making content more people want to engage in.

fringe fjord
#

they tried to mace me like 10 times while i was grinding scorpia idk how people lose items to this but i can see how it can be problematic

glacial gate
#

The average player probably isn't even aware of macing tbfh.

tropic root
#

Well, the average player doesn't PvP xD

#

but we still know about that because it's complained about

glacial gate
#

So how should i expect them to understand login dd's. Rag fight dynamics. Wilderness food chain. Proper anti pking, and why they have advantage.
Anything about the wildernesses finer points besides haha big clan killed me oh no.

tropic root
#

doing something to macing is just a small afterthought though, the main focus of my suggestions are on way more fundamental things

fringe fjord
#

make macing more effective in 1vs1 and less effective when a clan does it.

granite sphinx
#

i mean macing doesnt even need changes

fringe fjord
#

i need to mace people alone

#

1000 piranhas or 1 shark which do you pick

granite sphinx
#

piranhas tbf

tropic root
# glacial gate So how should i expect them to understand login dd's. Rag fight dynamics. Wild...

I'd be happy to learn about those if you're interested in explaining each of those in detail and whether they are bad or good

But I'm more interested in finding solutions to more fundamental problems like "why isn't the PvP playerbase growing" or "why don't newer people get into PvP"

With the existing playerbase in mind and not taking away from what they already have

Forget the mace thing because it is not really relevant to those questions

granite sphinx
fringe fjord
#

genius idea, when a clan stays in multi revs too long a group of npc macers logs in and smites them for their +1

granite sphinx
#

because the pj timer made it essentially the top 1% of pkers just feasting on everything, and its really hard for noobie pkers to even kill bots these days

#

which is not 100% on the pj timer, but that certainly didnt help matters

glacial gate
#

Its not impossible to get into. its just tough.
you don't go into wow arenas and hit r1 your first season trying either without buying a boost.

granite sphinx
#

right, but the # of people actually doing that is so so small that ofc its gonna decrease the playerbase lol

glacial gate
#

60% + of multi pkers are just bolt bots w/ an ags. You can catch em at wilderness crabs nonstop lol

fringe fjord
#

its still giga easy to get into pking since you can't be pjed off when you're just ganking bots and noobs

granite sphinx
#

honestly ive seen way more people get into pkiing, than i have seen new players pushing r1 in wow tbf

glacial gate
#

if you can't learn to switch and kill a dude in rune crossbow black d'hide at revs you don't deserve to pk.

granite sphinx
#

because about 99% of getting r1 is just networking w/ teammates lol

glacial gate
#

But i was only r1 2's not 3's

granite sphinx
#

i should say 99% from going from glad -> r1

#

yeah obviously as a brand new person it isnt networkin lol

winged thorn
granite sphinx
#

dont say dbl rogue, dont say dbl rogue

glacial gate
#

its all about understanding matchups but either way thats another game.

fringe fjord
#

suggestion: add more wilderness ditches, every 1 level, and you have to click them all to move up.

#

also similar to skilling all xp in the wilderness should go towards a 'pet roll' but instead of a pet it just spawns a level 999 rev

glacial gate
#

wilderness mimic.

#

everytime you go to open a loot key theres a chance its the wildy mimic which appears in 50 wilderness multi. If you kill it everyone in participation gets a mystic set to return in lmao

brazen fox
tropic root
#

(I just really want a 6v6 fight format xD)

glacial gate
#

you can go clan wars for matched fights like that.

#

join a clan they do shit like this sometimes

brazen fox
#

Kinda nuts “u can do something every 0.6s” gives rise nh movement and stuff

granite sphinx
#

yeah clan wars is available lol

brazen fox
#

Yh get some friends n run it

fringe fjord
glacial gate
#

nothings stopping ya

brazen fox
#

Or talk to a team and set up 6v6

fringe fjord
#

and 99% of all nhers are bad

glacial gate
granite sphinx
glacial gate
#

16 brews goes a long way regardless

#

esp w/ rings of recoil LOL

brazen fox
#

Yh depends on setup for sure

#

But in revs u got like barrows gloves switch prob

#

Looting bag

#

Idk

fringe fjord
#

reddit still posting like 'how am I gonna beat specialized pvp builds on my base 70s main!'

brazen fox
#

I feel like anti pking there also involves noob baiting

#

So u gotta keep the infernal hidden

fringe fjord
#

you can literally outlast any pure with 70 def 70 ranged

jade ledge
glacial gate
#

people dont understand just how easy anti-pking is. even if not killing the pker.

#

you got 2 styles to choose from and neither require a 4 way instant switch into spellbook

brazen fox
#

Yh but pvm teaches u its okay to chill on 40hp

fringe fjord
#

no it doesnt

brazen fox
#

I mean

glacial gate
#

idk olm in cm's hits me 50's nonstop off prayer

fringe fjord
#

but the average player is too bad at pvm to even do gwd

glacial gate
#

when im not soloing him ofc 😛

brazen fox
#

Yh but like 70hp isn’t rly dangerous against most bosses

#

Ur kinda chillin

glacial gate
brazen fox
#

70hp in wildy ur gna die

glacial gate
#

Tell that to doom.

brazen fox
#

Ye

#

There’s exceptions

glacial gate
#

That mofo loves a 70 hp mofo XD

fringe fjord
#

you die to 1 mistake at end game bosses if you dont camp 120

brazen fox
#

Yh we not playing find the exception

#

The majority of content isn’t like that

glacial gate
#

most pvm is hella braindead though

#

i do agree

fringe fjord
#

but i would argue there's probably more pkers than there's end game pvmers lmao

brazen fox
#

And the average player has done scurrius and shamans or something

glacial gate
#

scurrius was lit on dmm lol

fringe fjord
#

people cry about how small the pk population is and dont realize there's not many players doing deep delves at doom either

glacial gate
#

lotta bots doing it.

#

but we dont cry about bots there only the rev caves.

#

id just about pay a pvm timmy 10m to watch them try to tb people in wildy slayer caves.

fringe fjord
#

more bots in pvm than the wildy but theyre hiding in instances

brazen fox
#

Ye first time tryna kill a pvmer is a humbling experience as a noob

#

I used to think it was like impossible to escape a pker

#

Someone told me try kill someone

#

Got humbled

glacial gate
#

quick way of learning you might be shit rn lmao.

#

But learning that makes you BETTER

#

shit i got pvmers that escape me all the time

#

i might be shit too LOL

#

but i do love the wildernes

brazen fox
#

It happens lmao

#

One time a very committed Rev farmer simply speared me then ran in circles til he logged

#

That made me call it for the day kekw

glacial gate
#

Definitely have had that happen to and its hella demoralizing lmfao

#

Some of the shortcut escapes are entirely freaking broken to if we wanna get down to it.

#

I noticed in dmm how freaking bad wildy godwars was lmao

brazen fox
#

Ye I witnessed a tent whip spec escape using shortcut before

#

Was innovative

fringe fjord
#

cant believe we still cant stack euc keys

#

only benefit of the wilderness + locked behind diaries + your kill count gets lowered from combat achievements anyway so it becomes almost easier to just kill mobs

wooden basin
tropic root
#

Don't lose your post to the 2000-4000 character limit xD

winged thorn
#

dw i have it copy pasta'd

tropic root
#

On mobile if I get past that it deletes my message

winged thorn
#

i was going to pm it so its not a wall of text

#

is that ok

tropic root
#

Yeye

wooden basin
#

Awww maannnn

#

The only book i wanted to read

tropic root
#

He's writing me some responses to a pretty long suggestion I wrote a while back ^^

wooden basin
#

Yeah i read parts of that too

#

Was driving home though

winged thorn
#

just didnt wanna derail/spam chat

wooden basin
#

Yeah im curious. Casuals keep calling me a pvper but i only pk every so often and i enjoy the conversation and ideas

winged thorn
#

in pm

fringe fjord
#

bh isnt that active anymore due to lack of qol so i havent been pking much either

winged thorn
#

what kinda qol does bh need?

#

kinda figured they were set

#

but i dont pk bh enough to know

fringe fjord
#

main bracket is giga bad apparently

#

everyone teles to target + korasi specs and then runs laps

glacial gate
#

main bracket bh is pretty aids ngl lol. i only have a few kills there because i can't stand it though. I like nh'ing XD

#

So i can't touch on its problems. besides spec rushers.

fringe fjord
#

but same issue on pures + the layout is kinda ass

winged thorn
#

ive come accross a couple ppl like that. 1 in particular that uses ags2. my question is. that shit has to work for them to keep doing it day in and out, right? kekw

glacial gate
#

it has to you'd think.

fringe fjord
#

they never have high kc

#

having to run all the way to the center of bh every time is annoying

#
  • theres always gigasweats that just gap you the entire time with vollys
#

90s is good fun though

#

bh is instanced so they can basically do anything without affecting the main game too they just dont

glacial gate
#

remember how freezing wasn't allowed in bh but you could still freeze on arceuus spellbook then oda's bh hcim got owned by someone freezing and they patched it the next day

fringe fjord
#

yh

glacial gate
#

Good times.

fringe fjord
#

player never got banned I believe

#

he lold for days in some private disc

winged thorn
#

why would you ban someone for jagex's blunder? i can understand banning some taking advantage of a tbow spawn

#

but something like that is a nothing burger

glacial gate
#

changes that are needed only get made when a streamer complains.

fringe fjord
glacial gate
#

dude was ahking harder than rev cave megatrons lol

winged thorn
#

i mean thats diff l0l

#

sounded like banning for bug abuse

glacial gate
#

idk how they cant figure out ahkers when the players dont open their spellbooks ever or their prayer books.

fringe fjord
#

they do

winged thorn
#

i mean if you send that shit to manked directly you can get someone banned within the hour (assuming hes free, working, etc)

fringe fjord
#

the client that uses packages doesnt need that but thats not ahk its even worse

glacial gate
#

manked wouldnt accept a dm from any of us lmfao

winged thorn
#

perhaps, but i think we'd both be surprised

glacial gate
latent relic
#

Clienting and ahking is doing more harm to PvP than anything else right now. So discouraging dieing to them.

fringe fjord
#

cheats are a symptom not a cause

#

people cheat because the skill ceiling is too high

tropic root
#

I've been outta the loop too long

I presume ahking means using ahk to switch armor sets? Like 5way 6way switches?

Or has it gotten worse?

And what is clienting? Like using runelite to alert if players render nearby in wildy? Or like full on botting pvp like LMS?

latent relic
fringe fjord
#

nobody cares about prestige they care whether they kill their opponent you do that by being better

latent relic
#

It's the same dopamine rush, defeating an opponent and achieving high prestige.

fringe fjord
#

there is no prestige

#

people can tell you are cheating

#

they arent gonna think 'wow theyre so good at the game'

#

they think 'wow that person cheats'

#

and they name change their characters 3x a day

latent relic
#

Doesn't stop that person from chasing it

#

The cheater still cheats and pretends like they aren't or that they don't care

#

Making PvP easier isn't going to fix it

#

People who cheat will still cheat. The hope is we help improve the skill gap so the legitimate players don't just give up with pvp

#

But jagex needs to come down hard on PvP clients at the same time as improve PvP skill progression

fringe fjord
#

i am losing braincells

#

guess what, normal players benefit from pvp being easier, it makes no difference to cheaters

#

everything is already automated for them

#

only the bottom group is positively impacted

#

JuSt BAn Da BoTs isn't a good solution because it's not realistic, you want normal casual players to be able to compete with it.

#

your entire argument is imaginary no one's cheating for prestige they're cheating because there's hella money to be made in pvp which they then rwt.

#

they cheat because the only way to beat top players is to play the game for a living.

#

you gain negative prestige from using a client everyone just avoids you, you get blacklisted from clans and get called out constantly

latent relic
#

You don't need to be able to beat people like Westham and Odablock to be good at PvP. You don't need to play the game for a living to be good at PvP.

languid oracle
#

You absolutely don't need to make pvp 'easier' to make people engage with it. Every single game that dumbs down combat to appeal to the lowest common denominator becomes a soulless husk where people don't care at the top end and everything falls apart with it.

latent relic
#

There's a wide range of skill between the best pkers and the worst and you don't need to do this as a full time job to improve

languid oracle
#

Games rely on their good players feeling like their skills and effort are rewarded for what they do

#

It's why end-game pvm has had such a stagnation, for years and years the only thing to do is just oh boy cosmetics or self imposed challenges

latent relic
#

Like why bother trying to get better if we are going to turn it into a game my toddler could play

languid oracle
#

If you force PvP to be something easier then the people who have gotten good already are punished because now their skills are worth less

fringe fjord
#

my 16 hours a day of clicking small ice barrage icon is being devalued

latent relic
#

I don't play 16 hours a day and I still make more money than I lose and win more fights than I lose in pvp

inner dew
#

they could allow autocast, its not like you have to click on ur bolts everytime u do a crossbow shot.

fringe fjord
#

pvp isnt even streamlined with pvm so people go into the wilderness and then have to deal with completely different mechanics

#

lmao

inner dew
#

its not really a major change i dont think

latent relic
#

Doesn't make too much a difference since a lot of staffs can't auto cast ancients though

latent relic
fringe fjord
#

the spec orb used to not work in pvp thank god they fixed that

latent relic
#

Why do you need mage icon resizing though? I don't use that anywhere

fringe fjord
#

makes it easier to click barrage

inner dew
#

thats only reason i can imagine why

latent relic
languid oracle
#

It did

#

For the first few weeks after it was added it still did

#

You could 1t from any weapon

#

If you could move your hand quick enough it was an abject boost to use

fringe fjord
#

its the same as normal spec bar now

inner dew
#

yea it seems balanced since you have to move ur mouse to use orb, but to use spec bar u can just position ur item ontop of it so its no mouse movement

languid oracle
#

Sure, but you can understand why people who have learned something aren't keen to make sweeping changes to the mechanics when Jagex half the time doesn't understand the things they're doing and what problems they're causing

languid oracle
#

It was very busted for a bit

#

Jagex sometimes changes things without the input of people who actually do those things and 😲 it's wonky

inner dew
#

rightclick specbar or spec orb?

#

or both

#

i assume u cant rightclick orb but idek kekw

#

runescape likes to have rightclick options everywhere

languid oracle
#

Rightclick the equipment to equip while having the mouse over the spec orb

inner dew
#

ah

languid oracle
#

So you could click equip and orb same tick

#

It was very temporary but in pvp that's a big issue

#

I think some things could obviously be streamlined but to generalize down to saying anyone who doesn't want change must have been sweating their ass off and that's the only reason is a bit daft

fringe fjord
#

your argument is literally 'dont do it because it devalues the sweaties' tho

echo harness
#

I think the icon size is very, very silly in particular but I'm mostly agnostic on the other stuff

latent relic
#

I feel like having a PvP tutorial of some kind like framed mentioned would be a big benefit because it's not as hard as people think it is

inner dew
#

ppl will try to pray the right style and think they are failing everytime cos the mobs are still doing dmg kekw

glacial gate
#

its wasted dev time. if you cant figure out to pray melee against a dds you don't deserve to pvp.

latent relic
#

a new delve boss with pvp like mechanics would be fun though

fringe fjord
#

it wouldnt teach pvp

#

there are already several bosses with similar mechanics

#

you can literally go to doom right now and learn how to flick your prayers to tank accurately while eating + attacking back and moving.

latent relic
#

yeah but nothing that is an npc fighting in NH, kind of like the LMS bots but not so perfect with the switches and overheads

fringe fjord
#

anything predictable fundamentally doesnt teach pvp and anything unpredictable would be impossible for most of the playerbase

#

lms is npc fighting in nh since you're fighting literal bots

#

or you were at least I heard its empty nowadays

#

you can literally go into the wilderness right now with a 50k gear salad dhides setup and kill noobs and bots to get into the groove of gear switching already

latent relic
#

you can predict your opponent in an NH fight

fringe fjord
#

if the average player can't do doom they also can't do nh

latent relic
#

the average player is running around in dragon platelegs and a rune med helm

fringe fjord
#

yes

#

you can't teach these players how to pk because they suck at the game fundamentally

latent relic
#

lots of content added to the game lately that they can engage in while they learn more about the game

fringe fjord
#

end game pvm translates decently to pvp

#

lots of gear switching, overheads and movements

#

reality is most pvmers are not good at pvm

#

this minigame wont help them more than any existing content already in the game

#

but they will not do either

latent relic
#

right and jagex has done a great job adding midgame content to help them develop those skills. what we are saying is they should look at doing similar for pvp.

nocturne birch
fringe fjord
latent relic
#

where are all these bots in salad robes you speak of lol

gilded pumice
fringe fjord
#

you are the one in salads

#

the bots are at revs, zombie pirates

latent relic
#

they are such a pain in the ass to pk

#

rev bots

#

i cba

fringe fjord
#

even if you die 10 times if you get 1 kill you're able to buy 50 more

#

nh is a pain in the ass fundamentally, kinda

latent relic
#

its not, once you learn it its a lot of fun

#

pking rev bots is not nhing

#

it also won't teach you much about nhing

winged thorn
#

nhing is a lot of fun & thats what got me to try pvp originally, watching chunks pvp vids

latent relic
#

mhmm its definitly not a cake walk to learn

#

but its a lot of fun to send

winged thorn
#

i do think its good practice to learn the mechanics, timing, etc, but youre right, it doesnt really teach you anything about fighting another pker

latent relic
#

fight the same guy 5 times before someone's able to land a spec KO and win

latent relic
#

a good way to learn nhing though is to send on a pure and don't take any switches, just msb and robes with a dds

#

practice overheads and hitting off prayer

fringe fjord
#

and they still change prayers

#

but the hard part of nh is doing that while being damaged yourself

winged thorn
#

i think the hard part is killing w/e youre on

#

goes for the best pkers & the worst lmao

latent relic
#

yeah i think people overstay a lot as well, if you are down 200 damage in a fight just get a freeze log and bank because you are probably not going to be able to tilt momentum back in your favour down by that much

wide crater
latent relic
#

yeah i struggle with it

#

i keep thinking if i just hit this big bolt off prayer or a nice voidwaker i can turn it around

#

suddenly i got 2 brews and a dream kekw

wide crater
#

That part lolol. Or if someone is using hally/korasi combo, i end up just staning still tryna eat and tank instead of focusing on prayer etc

#

Other than that I generally do pretty well for my experience i think

fringe fjord
#

wildy poh today

minor aspen
misty dune
#

We need 0 defence bonus dharoks, ghostly Dharoks.

#

Maybe still can be locked to 70 defence accounts

#

or maybe just lock it to pvp worlds and have it be a points based unlock that even pures can use

#

but it would make DH pking so much more fun to have that as an option

#

versus being forced to use voidwaker

minor aspen
misty dune
#

if you've ever dh pked you would understand how terrible trying to hit through the defence bonuses is

robust warren
#

Supp, I want to do the quest "A Divided Kingdom" on my Pure character, but without leveling up my HP. I'm 3400 XP away from the next level. Does anyone know if it's possible?

brazen fox
fringe fjord
#

You're gonna have to use poison and recoils

robust warren
#

This is for my bh acc, after the quest i will not fight out bh anymore

#

If possible, i want to make "a kingdom divided" and "mage arena 2"

granite plume
glacial gate
#

OMG the new house is so freaking cool.

#

Im so happy w/ this lol thanks jagex

granite plume
#

Does it beat hosidius blueprints?

#

Thinking about using it just for my portal

glacial gate
#

the house is broken though

#

i have to walk all the way around my house to get to the rejuv pool now lmfao its like theres an invisible wall

acoustic estuary
#

Prayers not working in w345 permanent dmm?

river spindle
acoustic estuary
minor aspen
#

My optimistic side says that this is for when they make it multi again with more entrances

#

Right? :))))

#

But even then, i don’t think having so many teleports is a good idea

#

It’s aggressive teleport creep

river spindle
#

Were you on Ruinous Powers prayerbook before seasonal ended?

#

Maybe that's where the bug is

#

Also try to die PvM death or drink prayer potion/pool or something to see if it's stuck on an invisible 0

acoustic estuary
# river spindle Were you on Ruinous Powers prayerbook before seasonal ended?

No, i had them unlocked in seasonal yes but i had switched to regular prayers for the finale and now the prayers just arent working whatsoever. Tried clicking every single prayer nothing happens, tried dying didnt help. Tried asking if others had found a solution and nothing. Multiple other people were having the same issue 🤷‍♂️

minor aspen
#

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see it as satisfying as a dds spec, ags, or even maul. Maybe it has to do with the animation? Like there’s something cheesy about it, can’t pinpoint it.

river spindle
silk rapids
#

Wtf there's a pvp discussion

#

#MakePKRIsGreatAgain
#MakeCWAGreatAgain

winged thorn
hollow fiber
#

Gz teal

winged thorn
#

Nop others were here before I’m just here to discuss PvP peepognomeblush

wooden basin
#

A bunch of us made it a thing lol

#

Starting with the discord suggestion

#

Hello echo :p

echo harness
#

tbf I think it was turning the game update channel into pvp discussion that did it

wooden basin
#

"Gm pvpcord"

minor aspen
#

Also, RIP my granny 😔

image.png
winged thorn
winged thorn
#

Clan term, means either a setup fight or a fight that wasn’t setup but still takes place

#

Normally refers to multi but I’ve heard of “SRI’s” back when singles was normal - “Singles Run In”

granite sphinx
echo harness
#

people really expect all pkers to be toxic nightmares

glacial gate
hollow fiber
#

I've been called many slurs by them for pking them peepognomeblush

hollow fiber
glacial gate
acoustic estuary
trim wedge
#

is there a way for the average player to avoid ahkers clienters in pvp?

inner dew
brazen fox
#

Some ppl are really really good

shrewd arch
#

anyone in here than can answer a question for me, if ur a well rounded pker, in bounty hunter etc. throw me a messege i got a few question as a new pker

glacial gate
#

Feel free to ask away homie and im sure someone will chime in big dog! @shrewd arch

brazen fox
#

Ye no shame we were all new before

shrewd arch
#

okay so i made a 75 attack, 70 str 75 def, for bounty hunter, with 95 mage n 94 range, my question is, what kinda combos is normal for a void tank to pk with ?

#

is it knifes into darkbow into throwing axes ?

winged thorn
#

Dbow throwing axe, heavy balli throwing axe, voli, voli throwing axe

#

I’m sure surge potion made it so you can really get funky combos

shrewd arch
#

so if i only wanted to range, its knives into dbow into throwing axe? with veng right?

#

and how about if i die in bh do i loose my void or assembler ? or do i need to trouver it ?

brazen fox
#

No need to parch u just pay repair fee

#

I seen ppl camp Javs/thrown axes with veng as well

shrewd arch
#

nice, sounds straight forward, ty for ur time

glacial gate
#

dbow goes hard af off a venge

winged thorn
shrewd arch
#

thats only outside bh as i understood,

#

right

#

if i waned to go lets say rev caves etc id have to parch it

winged thorn
#

It’s worth mentioning (I’m sure you’re aware, but just in case ) that elite void is what you will want to pk in peepognomeblush

shrewd arch
#

yea but as i understand u need level 100 for elite void right? im only 98 atm

winged thorn
#

Yep

#

Will be worth it for the extra DPS

shrewd arch
#

thats my goal 100% but for now i just wanna try bh and pking out xD but ty

fringe fjord
#

if you do bh 100 combat is significantly worse than 99

#

I've maintained this for years because the trade off isn't big enough

glacial gate
fringe fjord
#

once you get past 99 you start matching with 105 combats

#

which are usually meds.

glacial gate
#

makes sense

fringe fjord
#

so at 99 you sit on top of the zerk bracket but you stay away from the med levels

#

your worst match ups are at worst other people with piety/rigour builds

#

but you dont have a big disadvantage against them

#

most powerful builds that bracket are unmaxed 60 attack pietys

#

BUT

#

they all quit once maxed

#

because they max at 102-103

#

which means they dont get zerker targets

#

they get endless meds as targ who they have a disavantage against and get korasi spammed

#

1-2 combats can completely ruin your player experience if you're fighting in areas with smaller bracketing

#

for example if you get elite void...and you're now 100 or 101 combat you fight 70+ defence people more often than you would've if you stayed 99<

#

since everyone below that is like 45 def

#

so did you gain dps?

#

you lost dps lol

#

but yeah @winged thorn is a wilderness pker and the brackets there are 20+ levels around your combat so in that case it's good

#

just depends on what you want to do

winged thorn
fringe fjord
#

yh

winged thorn
#

Would be asinine not to imo

fringe fjord
#

range tanks have the biggest advantage against zerkers

winged thorn
#

But idc to argue about it

glacial gate
#

i pk from level 1 to 50+ wildy dont matter where you are im pullin up

fringe fjord
#

100 combat positions him in a slightly less favorable bracket that starts shifting towards higher def

#

i mostly do it because zerkers are lower prayer and i want smites

#

aint smiting anyone with 77 prayer unless they chewing crayons

shrewd arch
#

iv tried a few times now, died a few times lol. is it me doing something wrong i feel like my dbow spec is so slow..

fringe fjord
#

i think the hitsplats are on the same tick unlike the base version

shrewd arch
#

yea but i need points for it right, i feel like when i wield my dbow and spec it sometimes dont go off

fringe fjord
#

that why yours might feel slow

#

fair enough i was just trying to explain why yours might feel slow compared to when its being used on you

shrewd arch
#

yea i might just be dogshit

#

tbf

winged thorn
shrewd arch
#

yea u might be true, i feel like im okay at lms, but this veng timing is hard

winged thorn
fringe fjord
#

bally is a lot better for veng combos

shrewd arch
#

whats easier to learn dark bow or light balista ?

fringe fjord
#

you aint got heavy bally?

shrewd arch
#

i should have it unlucked yea

fringe fjord
#

heavy bally is a lot easier to use than dark bow in general

#

you can often catch people off guard by being pre venged and then bally speccing very early in the fight while you veng again

#

used to do this to furous 07 (former #1 bh before craters) and it made him rage quit every time

shrewd arch
#

so knifes into ballista into throwing ? or do u balista last

fringe fjord
#

into throwing axe is nice but timing

#

you can also just bally spec early and then you usually get another spec later in fight

#

big bally hit into several axes is better for smiting

#

it also takes away the delay for the next hit

#

so you can bally > axe > axe > bally > axe > axe

#

also possible with dbow lol

shrewd arch
#

aighte , il try the balista, ty for the help btw

subtle wigeon
#

Also armor is dead content in pvp, when ice barrage and magic are the strongest it's pointless to bring armor

granite sphinx
#

In multi I suppose, singles it matters a lot

fringe fjord
#

wilderness poh still not fixed

#

love taking detours in my poh design thats been the same for years

brazen fox
graceful tundra
#

What level does PvP start

glacial gate
#

whenever you want it to brother.

exotic quest
#

When theres going to be a pvp update?

#

Everywhere its dead...

granite sphinx
#

unfortunately probably not anytime soon 🙁

glacial gate
#

multi revs pwease

minor aspen
#

pwetty pweeeeease 🥺

minor aspen
glacial gate
exotic quest
minor aspen
exotic quest
#

Ima add you and we ll make It work

wooden basin
#

Did those restrictions they added only effect singles wildy bosses?

minor aspen
wooden basin
#

I see thank you

tender geyser
#

Why don't you meet up and fight each other like old times sake

#

People used to go just fight

glacial gate
#

who

wooden basin
#

Clans usually do

glacial gate
#

its so fun fighting open cc's

wooden basin
#

Honestly its so crazy fun. I wish there was a way to make it more streamlined for people to find you and join these was because its probably the funnest stuff in game

scarlet tree
#

The wildy cctv, as many problems as that presented had some good sides to it
Running into making clan fights, they’d get crashed but still was a interesting time/concept

wide crater
#

If i dont wanna play hop simulator ill just pvm and anti. Works out well

winged thorn
peak depot
#

Y'all see Framed's newest video on how to save PVP?

minor parcel
#

Yea, im not convinced though

#

I think a low stakes pvp minigame/environment would be better than just another pvm activity

glacial gate
#

bolting maxxers in rag w/ venge is a fun low stakes pvp enviornment.

wooden basin
#

Another mini game

ocean kraken
# minor parcel I think a low stakes pvp minigame/environment would be better than just another ...

As far as minigames are concerned, LMS is a really nice idea with poor execution. The issue is that offering three different NH tribrid builds and nothing else reinforces the false belief that NH tribrid duelling is the only acceptable way to participate in PvP, and that new players are expected to pilot a NH brid setup well enough to be enjoyable. The fact of the matter is that there's too much information at once for someone who's never tried PvP to get anything but frustration out of it, and it feels hopeless for someone trying to learn when you can't even begin to identify your mistakes through all the noise. It's sort of like 450 invo TOA; it's a ton of fun if you've got practice with easier invocations, but would feel impossible to learn without that less punishing feedback loop.

I saw a suggestion a while ago to add a noob build, a Dharok build, and/or a F2P build to LMS, and only keep one of the existing brid builds, and I really like that idea. Each of those builds cuts down on a lot of the noise, and makes kills feel skillful rather than lucky, which is ironic considering that NH bridding is basically pure skill. I don't want to win a fight because my opponent got overwhelmed by information overload and forgot to eat; I want to win because I played well and gave myself more chances to get good RNG for a KO. And when I lose, I want to congratulate my opponent for outplaying me, not silently seethe in rage at my overwhelming incompetence.

minor parcel
#

Im curious, if a "class-based shooter" style minigame would work? It'll just be teams of players that get to choose their "class" which would be the build variants and just go ham out there. Low risk, able to try lots of different builds against different types of players, can also be varied with easy (low cmb), normal (med cmb), hard (high cmb) modes.

ocean kraken
#

Another idea I've seen that I liked was a minigame kind of like Fist of Guthix, except 2v1 or 3v1 predators hunting prey. Prey tries to complete tasks around the arena for points (e.g. killing minibosses, doing laps of an agility course, catching/cooking food to stay alive longer, etc), and has several escape mechanisms that send them somewhere else in the arena (e.g. ladders, teleport levers, an item that lets you teleport somewhere after 10s charge up, etc). The idea would be to train prey to tank test and escape potentially multiple attackers, and train predators to take down their prey without it escaping. It's basically a Wilderness content simulator, except faster paced because the prey knows they're you're being hunted. Skills learned here are applicable in the Wilderness, too. Rune pouch and looting bag could also come from this minigame to give ironmen a couple options for how they want to go about getting them.

ocean kraken
#

Class-tle wars?

minor parcel
ocean kraken
#

But yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot since the Framed video last week. He's right, PvP needs some TLC, but adding more Wilderness content that just creates loot pinatas for PKers isn't the way forward. I haven't made a YouTube video since I was like 12 years old back in 2009, but I might put something together just to get my thoughts on paper and shout into the void to the three people who might watch it.

#

Also... I actually had fun playing Deadman Annihilation.

glacial gate
#

Please don't make me play a damn pure in a new pvp minigame

daring epoch
#

Hello does anyone have a pk build specifically for hunting bots ?

fast cradle
#

pure.

#

zerk

fast cradle
#

also depends on your skill level

#

and what wilderness level

#

you plan to kill bots

minor aspen
tropic root
# peak depot Y'all see Framed's newest video on how to save PVP?

The problem with learning PvP through a PvM simulation of players is that it's still going to feel extremely different from fighting real humans.

Think of fighting bots on Smash Bros or in TF2 or CS:GO. It's just different.

However, Framed has the right idea in trying to think about how to bridge that skill gap and make it easier for people to practice and learn PvP.

Personally, I think PvP can already be practiced naturally at Soul Wars and other minigames. Fist of Guthix was nice as its gameplay was actually closer to what happens in the Wilderness sometimes and it encourages practicing bridding.

But even then, learning PvP in a minigame against real players still gives a different feel from actual Risk PKing. Even if you are not really risking much, and even if you have got some of the basics of PvP down, the jump to adding any risk is a lot for someone getting into it.

Suddenly it adds adrenaline to the picture, it makes you fumble skills you thought you learned, it adds just a lot of pressure you didn't learn to deal with in any minigame or simulated player PvM.

In the end, players will only really be able to learn any specific kind of PvP, by actually doing it.

I kinda like the concept of Framed's Wildy armor charged by GP and only usable in the Wilderness thing.

glacial gate
#

I wonder if the npcs will ever accidentally disconnect. Or fumble a switch. Or misclick an ability you know like a real person lol.

#

Because imma tell you right now gl coding the random stuff i be doing in fights sometimes.

#

might hit the crab dance on you behind a tree for the flex i dont even know what im about to do.

minor parcel
#

I do like Framed's wildy armor idea too, having to rebuy stuff can be such a pain.

brazen fox
brazen fox
#

Maybe ppl just want to use nh?

#

Also idk sometimes I feel like the info isn’t available to help newbies but sometimes I feel like there’s too much info

#

Bit of both probs, not enough easily digestible stuff

glacial gate
#

i mean what info they need lol

#

"The enemy player has casted ice barrage on you, you are now frozen and cannot move!"

#

like bro i can click the ground and realize i can't move.

brazen fox
#

😂 😂

glacial gate
#

i see a lot of cope from people who aint never pked is all im tryna say lmao

#

it should be more noob friendly. Bro you're risking black d'hide rcb. just hit people

#

s2g youll learn

#

oh wow the bolt goes at the enemy

#

no shit

brazen fox
#

Tbf “try not to 5tick ur attacks” is prob a good place to start cuz they just see everyone else with “better overheads” and think they should stare at their prays all day

#

But 100% agree with the premise

#

U gotta just try it out and ask people for advice if u need it

glacial gate
#

homies gettin 10 tiled and hes flicking the whip to make em pray melee n shit

wooden basin
#

Like come on

glacial gate
#

is that really a game problem 🤔

brazen fox
#

Lmaoooooo

wooden basin
#

If you cant risk that idk what to say

glacial gate
#

ironman ass solutionns

brazen fox
#

It’s all experience for sure

#

Someone sent me something I said recently I didn’t laugh react at my own post

image.png
#

But seeing someone run at u in tank with whip avernic

#

And knowing to pray mage

#

That’s the random stuff u just learn

#

By doing 😂

glacial gate
#

if u run at me with whip avernic in tank

#

im laughing at you for using a whip

brazen fox
#

Lmaoo ye it’s arena sesh disc

#

Wish tent whip was more viable

#

Waste of slot tho

glacial gate
#

pvp arena sure is cool if you're afraid to risk a single set

#

unfortunately for me. I have many sets.

#

can't wait to turn in my reward points for surge sacks again next time i run out

#

that sure is a GREAT PLACE to get surge sacks jagex.

#

Thank god all the real players i fight in meaningful encounters there are just really scared cause my name has a z in it or some shit and just auto forfeits.

wooden basin
#

I didnt even know that was a thing 😂

glacial gate
#

sorry im on one lmfao

#

bro u aint hit the pvp arena up yet?

wooden basin
#

Emirs arena? Not in a loooong time

glacial gate
#

its got everyone from bot a to bot z and johnny ironman getting his imbue scrolls all in one conveinant location.