pvp-discussion

[delicate slate]

I still look back at your tips and it’s given me clear instruction on what to work on! I’m still ass but I have a goal

[glacial gate]

Make sure to vote yes to multi revs. dmm over soon and ill be back to regular doom posting

[brazen fox]

That’s what it’s all about mate, just taking it step by step and adding to your skill set

[granite sphinx]

Man I don’t even want to think about dmm being over, even tho it’s kinda dead going back to hop simulator sounds like the worst thing imagineable lol

[granite sphinx]

just read another posst about freeze walking under being a problem -.- do you guys think that these OSRS players when they play FPS go on the games forums and complain that other players are moviing around whilst shooting them? lol

[unkempt sigil]

Hi everyone. I have never Pked but I wanted to get into it. Would Anyone teach me the basics? I can’t attach picture with my stats here lol

My stats here #game-questions message

[granite sphinx]

unfortunately yes you'd need to level up a LOT to partake in main game pvp, but you can do Last Man Standing at ferox enclave, thatll help get your feet wet and put you on equal footiing with people statwise to try it out

[wide crater]

Looking at your stats youre still lacking a lot of quests etc that are gonna level you up, so the only viable option i see with that acc is either med or max. Till you get to that point, like squintz said lms will be your best option for learning the basics and once you get higher combat start sending wildy fights

[covert musk]

Ill help u beast, pm if ok?

[minor aspen]

You know where freeze walking isn’t a problem? Multi

barrage the clump!!!

[unkempt sigil]

Yeah sure, any help is appreciated

[jade ledge]

You dont hop in dmm!? (take this with a grain of salt please)

[brazen fox]

U can practice in lms initially while u get ur stats up

[minor aspen]

Also, sleeper strat for walk under tactics: negotiate with your opponent against it before starting combat if possible(for example if fighting outside ferox)

[granite sphinx]

xD i do but i find a person ever 4 worlds

so it doesnt feel as bad

[jade ledge]

I feel you 🙂

[peak depot]

I ain't a PVPer but I'm tryna learn more about it... I have a few questions...

-What is pid, and why is it important?
-Why does everybody plant flowers in PVP?
-What're you supposed to do when someone freezes you and walks on the same tile as you so you're not just a sitting duck waiting for your freeze to go away?

[torpid lily]

pid = you move/attack before your opponent. Pid basically resets every x amount of time

planting flowers is a soft way of still being able to move while frozen

Making it harder for people to dd on you etc

[peak depot]

A'ight thanks for the info.

[brazen fox]

Two most important things with PID are:

• on PID players movements are processed before off PID players movements
• attacks actually occur in same tick if you’re in range BUT off PID players hitsplat is 1 tick delayed, so when off PID your opponent can react to ur spec animation and eat/veng (altho they can’t pray it)

Since movement and attacks are processed sequentially it changes when u need to click when ur defending DD - when on PID u can react to their movement animation and click them but off PID u need to red x before they move out

Try to spec on PID

But also if u don’t know how to defend DD don’t worry about PID its way down the line

[brazen fox]

Ur not a sitting duck when defending DD. For sure its a disadvantage but trust me u can get absolutely cooked DDing someone that’s good

Biggest tip is don’t stand there in robes for 20 seconds trying to freeze off or you’ll get cooked

It’s okay to stand in tank and bolt rag til ur freeze timer is almost up

If they never sidestep then u can whip and stuff

Just be patient deal damage back and try get refreeze and take the next dd

[peak depot]

How does one deal damage back tho?
From my experience if they're on the same tile as you they can't be hit.

[brazen fox]

Ye but they gotta step out for a tick to hit you right? Else they’re just standing there not doing dmg to you

You hit them on that tick

[peak depot]

So you just spam click them?

[brazen fox]

Ya initially u can def just bolt back in tank until u only got a few seconds til ur freeze is up

And spam click

Prefer to brew rather than angler/shark defending DD bcos u will miss a hit if u eat hard food

[peak depot]

So Sara brew for defence buff and heals, put on the tankiest gear you got, and spam click them until you can move again?

Simple enough I guess

[brazen fox]

Ur brewing because it heals u without delaying ur hit

Then restore when u can

When u become unfrozen u wanna be high hp and restored

[torpid lily]

Correct me if im wrong (it's been a while) but you can also do ::renderself to see what your opponent is going to attack with

[brazen fox]

So u can fight for refreeze without being forced to lose ticks from eating

[torpid lily]

and im fairly sure theres plugins that can still show your hue

[brazen fox]

But yes essentially u can bolt rag em til you get used to stuff

[torpid lily]

so youre not completely clueless on what youre wearing

[peak depot]

Just tried that in-game... Had no idea that existed. 😵‍💫

[brazen fox]

U can use deathdotter plugin also

[torpid lily]

thats the one

[peak depot]

Found it... That sounds quite helpful.

[brazen fox]

Half tank barrage is an option in lms/arena, mostly u use it when u first get frozen or when ur almost unfrozen, so u nullify their dd or get a good dd on opponent

Half tank barrage is when u wear robe top and platelegs

U have good defensive bonuses and decent chance to land it

[peak depot]

Good to know.

[brazen fox]

But u gotta spam the spell

[peak depot]

One-tick spamming bones at the chaos altar wasn't for nothing after all...

[brazen fox]

Ye fr

DD is no biggie not rly an op tactic but lots of skill expression in taking advantage of it

Just don’t panic and deal dmg back to em

If they keep going robes under u bolt/dds their robes

So free

[peak depot]

Y'see, this's why I've suggested to Jagex that there should be some kind of "PVP Academy" in-game so novices can learn this stuff. This's great info...

[brazen fox]

Ye robes op

If u can dds ur opponents robes

U will win

But for sure all of this stuff is overwhelming at first and not obvious at all

So if u need help just pop a msg

[peak depot]

I'll keep you in mind. Thanks for the education.

[torpid lily]

thats lms kinda

esp the bots

[jade ledge]

Do the bots in there dd as well?

[peak depot]

LMS is basically banging your head against the wall and hoping it eventually breaks...
It doesn't help for teaching people who have no idea what they're doing what they should be practicing or learning.

[wooden basin]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1472099085707378910

I agree tbh

[jade ledge]

Information like this is pretty deep for a starter but good to know it exists for later stages

[peak depot]

Exactly...
It'd be great to see an in-game lesson series on ways to handle common situations in PVP. (like the aforementioned freezing/DD scenario)

You could even have a no-risk/no-reward training arena where aspiring PVPers could practice with other players.
(no-risk so there's no fear of losing, and no-reward so as not to attract bot users.)

That's actually a flaw I see in LMS and Duel Arena... There are rewards, thus they get flooded with botters.

Not saying it should change, just saying it's a flaw.

[wooden basin]

Yeah and in general a clan isnt going to just sit there and teach strangers whats going on. A lot of this is experience/insider stuff that the game 100% does not teach

[peak depot]

I think that's actually the real reason PVP isn't well-received by many players... It's not "predator vs. prey" like many ppl like to say. It's a lack of availability of knowledge and secrets that allow people to hold their own in PVP.

If it became more available, I think Jagex would see that new wave of PVPers they're hoping DMM will create.

[wooden basin]

Yeah plus, the wildy is in dire need of updates/change. Quests, even. The rest of the game gets 98% of the attention.

We had this discussion last night

#game-update message

Starting from here down

[peak depot]

Well, who knows? Maybe Jagex already has a solution. They did ask how people would feel about a PVP tutorial in a survey not long ago.

It'd be cool to see PVP become a more accepted and integrated part of the game... And I really do think the solution is, to quote Tai Lopez, "Knowledge!"

https://tenor.com/view/knowledge-tai-lopez-knowledge-gif-10716327034683962809

[torpid lily]

half agree

people nowadays are also just whiny bastards

[wooden basin]

Yeah also true ^

[torpid lily]

and want to have a single-player experience in a MMO

[wooden basin]

They do be crying about 300k risk

[torpid lily]

dying in a multi-mage set was like 300k per death, and in some clan fights you could die like 10 times easily

[wooden basin]

Its probably all of the above tbh

Kind of why i tell people to make a main before you make any sort of pvp account

When people start off with a pure its yikes

[peak depot]

I can empathize with players who are just trying to do a master clue scroll step and they get dropped by some guy who knew they had nothing valuable on them, they just felt like being a jerk.
People who want to remove PVP or have an opt-out system for PVP are going too far, imo.
The best solution to me is, give them the tools (knowledge) to give them a better shot at surviving when they get attacked like that.

[torpid lily]

you'd be surprised how many people bring bank

[peak depot]

I get that, but all I'm saying is, people would complain less if they could more easily learn how to defend themselves.

[torpid lily]

i dont think i have pics anymore but i have pked around 100m worth of stuff from clue scrollers

[peak depot]

Cuz if they knew the basics of surviving a pker encounter, they'd at least feel like they have a fairer shot at escaping.

[torpid lily]

i mean most of the people whining dont even attempt to survive

[wooden basin]

If i accidentally went to wild with my bank, id hop to a f2p world lol

[torpid lily]

theyre not even willing to learn

the second they get attacked they stop clicking ingame and load up a reddit post about wildy removal

[wooden basin]

Yeah there are those who are just so scared of that part of the game that they want it deleted

[torpid lily]

surviving encounters is VERY doable with little to no experience

[wooden basin]

But they'll farm 5k bandos kc

[peak depot]

I disagree. The biggest haters of PVP may be like that, but I think a lot of times, what looks like "no attempt" is actually "no knowledge or experience."

[wooden basin]

Yeah thats true. Experienced ones prep

[torpid lily]

properly preparing for combat is half the solution

aka black dhide, bolt and a dds

[wooden basin]

Dihns ;p

[peak depot]

I'd bet many players wouldn't even know that.

Hence why they should be taught.

[torpid lily]

its paraded almost everywhere

i wouldnt be opposed to something like u suggest

but i doubt itd make much difference

cuz its not efficient

so they wont touch it

and rather complain

for the megawhiners, there's always gotta be something in for it

[wooden basin]

If quest cape is* locked behind wildy quests ;p or max cape locked ;p

[peak depot]

I think it'd make a bigger difference than many would expect.

Think of it this way...
You're a regular player with no PVP experience...
You go to the wildy for clues, Mage arena, bossing, etc...
You die too many times to players ambushing you, and you get frustrated...
You decide you've had enough... So you go to the PVP Academy to learn how to defend yourself.

I'd bet a substantial percentage of players who experience that would do it.

There will always be the players who refuse to help themselves, and just whine on Reddit. This isn't for them.
It's for the players who are willing to do something about their problems. Which is a bigger percentage than we probably think.
Perhaps even the silent majority.

[torpid lily]

id say the minibosses of ven/vet/cal are already pretty decent learning spots of surviving

[peak depot]

Thing is, it has the same problem as LMS. Players who don't even know what they're supposed to be learning won't gain any benefit.

[torpid lily]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqymrNZecLo

This vid is 8 years old

[jade ledge]

Noted!

[wooden basin]

Im pretty self aware though so itll never happen lmao

Isnt there a keyboard command to hop worlds?

[jade ledge]

::hop [worldnumber] not too sure if correct

Been a long while and barely use it

[wooden basin]

I think theres also a way to hop 1 up or down? Idk ill have to look into it

[jade ledge]

Interesting, that I havent heard about.

[languid oracle]

It's alt shift up/down arrow

[wide crater]

I was in a clan fight once and accidentally brought staff+suffering bc i was in singles earlier. I got away and got the log out and hopped to a f2p world and wouldnt you know with my luck there was about 30 f2p pkers there 🤣

[wooden basin]

L0l the luck does f2p get loot keys or member stuff from keys

[brazen fox]

Agreed PID is way way later in the journey

[inner dew]

was there some era in rs2 where u didnt have pid?

[wide crater]

No idea if they got it, all i know is i lost it 🤣 couldnt eat or anything lmao

[jade ledge]

Yea you get a key, but its converted to money. Though not sure if its high alch value. (@wide crater)

[brazen fox]

Nah PID was always a thing but was mostly duel arena stakers that took advantage of it I think

[signal jay]

No Phoenix necklaces or Karabwans 🤣

If you want to tank an actual clan you need triple eat, use pnecks, and flick prays constantly based on their styles.

[torpid lily]

Yeh fs, but the guide is more regarding behavior than actual inv setup etc

Which is pretty decent explaination

[signal jay]

He's got poor raggers on him & doesn't bring the shield. An actual clan would kill him in a few hits.

[torpid lily]

While I agree, its more about the basics that Caeser said was missing

Also theyre solid tanks nevertheless

[signal jay]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/m3lh15/tanking_10_pkers_in_multi_and_surviving/

here's a more realistic example of tanking a coordinated multi clan.

[torpid lily]

i know how it works

I've multiclanned for like a decade

its more about that 'learning to deal with pkers' vids exist for years now

and some are VERY low entrance

[winged thorn]

A lot of these things we didn’t know either when first starting out in PvP. A lot of it is learning from experience & learning the hard way. Idk how you’d ever teach a noob that a crossbow, veng, & a korasi are all you really need to no longer be a “prey” in the wild; other than just telling them

But even then, there’s no guarantee those items are a “sure way” to either not die or anti your opponent. That’s where the experience of losing & dying comes into play

[torpid lily]

making sure the pker cant brainlessly click to kill u is half the job

and some simple bolting will already do that

[signal jay]

Like what clan

[torpid lily]

Ez and its 3 reworks, Veng, Af and pre-eoc a short time in foe

[signal jay]

I helped close AF 🙂

[torpid lily]

ok and

Took 3 years of 1/4 iteming for people to lose interest?

[signal jay]

The first closure before all that nonesense became a thing

[torpid lily]

U missed out on the reopening

Shame jagex ignored multi too long

Covid and the year leading up to it had great potential for a reincarnation

[signal jay]

Not really 2009-2010 & 2014-2016 where very completive enjoyable multi combat years.

pretty much everything after that was 10 clan cluster fuck team fest

[torpid lily]

Agree on the late 2000s

2019-2020 were great too tbf, esp f2p after pretty much every clan decided to get it back up

while most fights were 10 clan clusterfests, it was pretty much a 1v1 though with all the alliances being a thing in multi

[signal jay]

I didn't like standing in a 3x3 and not having snipers/moving pile

[torpid lily]

Personal preference ig

[low mesa]

So they never gonna give multi back in rev caves huh?

[jade ledge]

the results arent made public yet right?

[open grove]

it'll never pass unless integrity change

jagex had to be so cagey to get the antler guard to pass

[torpid lily]

I doubt it but the solution is terrible as well

And thats coming from someone who thought the previous iteration of the revcaves were nearly perfect from a multi pvp standpoiny

Jagex just couldnt be bothered enough to deal with the blantant RWT of protection clans

It was the perfect accomodation for multi pkers

Single pking was active there (at entrance), small teams were viable, medium sized teams were viable and clans with 100+ members were having wars there as well

There were dedicated teams for clearing the protection worlds and yeeting out before boltraggers logged in etc

It killed small man pking and it killed big clans

[minor aspen]

@granite sphinx killing my clan bro wtfffer

[glacial gate]

I sure do wonder what types of players were the ones paying for protection. Were they metallic? 🤔

[cerulean saddle]

Soon 🙏

[torpid lily]

a bunch

but also a buckload of non irons

but seeing the dr tag you probs already know

[glacial gate]

i just knew they were fun to fight at the drop of a hat when you wanted to.

[jade ledge]

@torpid lily were you in Vengeance?

[torpid lily]

yh

couple years

[jade ledge]

Damn I knew I'd recall your name from somewhere 🙂

[granite sphinx]

Poor guy I was only online for like 30 seconds total today

[inner dew]

did hiding venge used to be easier/work with more things?

[inner dew]

members?

[devout geyser]

Hey i got 60 ATK 73 Str 1 Def 61 Range 43 Pray 72 mage what Stats should i get and what Quest is important?

[small void]

none just camp breaches its not a pvp game mode

[next comet]

I would work towards 85 range, 85 mage. For quests - Horror from the Deep, Lost City, Animal Magnetism and Desert Treasure 1

[granite sphinx]

think hes talkin ab main game lol

[minor aspen]

Graphic illustrating how singles+ is stale and isolated in the scheme of the wilderness food web. That type of sterile dynamic belongs in minigames and gentlemanly duels.

an improvement could maybe be arrows showing horizontal competition between lower tiers

[wooden basin]

Can probably fit anti pker in there somewhere and bots

[granite sphinx]

anti pkers get eaten by skulltrickers i fear

[wooden basin]

Yeah it happens

[granite sphinx]

😈

[daring epoch]

hellooo friends, i was wondering what build i can move into with my account i made for pking. so far it has 44 prayer and 88 magic

can i still doing something at a lower level. i got carried away with splashing and i realize now that i was suppose to stop at 85 magic

[winged thorn]

Hi there. What are your goals for PvP? Your acc would suffice rn as a bot killer but I’m assuming you wanna do a bit more than that?

I don’t think your 88 magican is too big of a deal unless you were going for a prodded account

[daring epoch]

i wanna finally dive in and attempt to become decent so i can get confident at max pking on the main eventually with higher risk xD

mainly 1v1 fights and not multi stuff

[winged thorn]

Ok so like tribrid NH? Does your main have 94 mage, high range & str? I’m almost tempted to suggest you just hit wildy & try your luck

Building up your other acc may take. A bit if you are going for a maxed pure, for example

[daring epoch]

well i dont mind building up the new account to where im pking in the mid levels cause i was thinking and liked the idea of starting there vs maxed pure

[winged thorn]

Yep there’s nothing wrong with that! If you’re itching to get out there you can definitely do it now, take on the bots for easy gp, & fight anything that may try & fight you

[daring epoch]

i made this account like 8 months ago and trained a couple weeks and i got distracted so im just now picking up agian lol

[daring epoch]

i also have 10hp btw lmaoo

[winged thorn]

Do witch’s potion at the minimum

[daring epoch]

those are the only stats i have and i have only 2 qps lmaoo

[winged thorn]

Well you’ve got a bit until your “new” acc is somewhere that’s comparable to max main tribrid. You’ll have to grind out some KO potential (attack, str)

[daring epoch]

cause a 60 attack build work? its like 60 att, 80 str, 85 range, 52 prayer, and 85 mage. but idk if 88 mage putts me way too high into another combat bracket

[winged thorn]

Nope 88 mage won’t bump you up

It only will rn because you are a mage acc

Once you get atk/str the 88 mage won’t matter. Especially since you splashed it & didn’t gain any “unnecessary” HP lvls

[daring epoch]

oh nice! thank goodness. as for now if i want to pk along the way as i get levels should i just be pking bots?

[winged thorn]

That’s hard to say, tbh. If you run into something your lvl that’s willing to fight back, I think it’ll come down to their build vs yours & then just general skill

Until your acc is maxed for its build, you are usually at a disadvantage fighting someone else who is optimized, if that makes sense. But, that doesn’t mean you can’t get out there & have success

But just hearing your stats, I already know you could kill bots at 50’s easily lmfao. But that’s multi so care

[daring epoch]

sure of course lol

yeah i definitely got carried away with the splashing lmaooo

the levels went by quick

[winged thorn]

Well you’ve saved yourself a bit of time if one day you decide to push to 94 for baragge / 95 for surge

[daring epoch]

yeah lol

i would never of been able to do this the alching way no matter how much faster lol

[winged thorn]

Time to shift gears & start kicking crab for that KO

Or if you’re feelin frisky, go to 94 already

[daring epoch]

i think ideally whenever i do feel confident on my main. id want to do some form of DH pking

[winged thorn]

That is the most fun you can have imo

[daring epoch]

it looks fun

[winged thorn]

The fact that you can whack someone’s whole HP while on the ropes is a lot of fun

Only sucks when you get clapped a couple times it’s like 4-5m a pop 😭

[daring epoch]

yeah lmao

how do people who just have pking counts deal with that upkeep if they suck lmao

[winged thorn]

LOL I have one of those

It’s called being rich on your main

Oh you meant like suck at PvP l0l. I thought you meant the acc is a bad PvP acc hahaha

[daring epoch]

yeah lol

[winged thorn]

Answer is still probably the same, be rich on main & do it because it’s fun

[wintry stag]

here take mah spade

[dense cargo]

In a blogpost on august 27th 2024, winners of DMM Armageddon were anounced. To this very date, bracket 5 sais:, 111 – 126 Bracket: N/A - Pending further checks.

Will we ever get an update on this?

[winged thorn]

[inner dew]

kourend multi zones are funny, random bar and town square is multi

[minor aspen]

😆 Appropriate

[gilded flame]

just makes sense ngl

[fringe fjord]

not random those are spots for intelligence gathering

[inner dew]

they should make all bars multi

[fringe fjord]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Intelligence_Gathering

all intelligence spots are multi pretty much

cant tell why this is multi though

[inner dew]

oh i have no clue i never really did any zeah content

just saw purpp camping those spots in dmm cos ppl dont expect it

2 dharoks with 1hp insta killing anyone who enters bar

[low mesa]

does 110-112 CBL make a massive differnece for a med if you do slayer cave pk often?

[safe glade]

Don't wheat patches have zanaris teleport spots?

Could be why

Oh not zanaris, puro puro

[fringe fjord]

Any level past 100 decreases your chances of being able to attack people because caves are around level 20-30 and theres no 130+ combat

[minor aspen]

Difference like in how many people you can attack(above)? Or how much stronger others might be?

[wide crater]

Ayo fellas, gimme some tips/knowledge. deep wildy areas (agility,resource,larrans chest) how do you counter the door/ladder spammers. Aside from wasting specs on spearing them off for only a couple extra hits, i got nothin

[wooden basin]

Helps when you're a duo

[placid lance]

What is that weird purple smoke ability I keep seeing in pvp

[wide crater]

hows that work in singles besides bh worlds, they just log no?

[granite sphinx]

yeah it doesnt sadly 🙁 just another unfortunate design flaw of singles+

[wooden basin]

Yeah it works at rogues castle but other places in singles its the best way to escape. Ive used it a few times myself lol

[brazen fox]

No way to counter it rly but if u follow em properly they only wasting time

[low mesa]

Yes but I’m not running into pure risking crazy honestly

[fringe fjord]

may I ask, what the hell is wrong with the decision to nuke the dmm worlds until monday.

people will lose their muscle memory from not playing the entire weekend and then you expect them to do the finale?

[winged thorn]

Finale is tomorrow

[minor aspen]

Bro i hate fighting toxic staff on 1 def it’s so busted 😩 why does it have the stats of a d scim 🤬🤬

Failing to catch the freeze is punished so hard

On the other hand, at 91cb getting 75 attack you get rekt by any main w higher cb

[quick ore]

When’s the dmm finale and world?

[jade ledge]

are you refering to greater corruption? doesnt look like smoke but it may look like that without focussing on it

[wide crater]

I almost feel like hes talking about venge lmao

[glacial gate]

Best Dmm ever.

Miss it already.

[wooden basin]

Yeah i answered him earlier in diff channel

It was

[torpid lily]

Taste Purple smoke!

[glacial gate]

Freakin snoop dogg out here pk'ing!

[fast cradle]

odd as f

[scarlet tree]

Wish the dmm standard book god spells came into main game somehow, upgrades thru quest/miniquest or somethin

[minor aspen]

Yeah, god spells are really cool, only really viable in lower pk brackets which don’t really exist rn 💀

New god book pages 5+6: increases respective god book spells

[torpid lily]

Wtf u doing here

lad

[scarlet tree]

Yah exactly, honestly always wondered about the same thing, would be dope if the books were more useful for those spells n if each god oriented item gave a tiny bit of accuracy for their respective god spells

[fringe fjord]

you still wont be able to hybrid with them on lower levels because any place you'd be hybriding has shit bracketing and you'll get picked on by level 80s

unless they make a bh version where freezes work

because being able to fight within <10 levels is important to prevent lower levels from being pointless

[fringe fjord]

the main limiters are literally just bad bracketing and unavoidable xp gain

so if you’re a pure trying to hybrid in mid wildy, you’re not mostly fighting other pures, you’re fighting meds and zerks 15–25 combats higher

that’s not a skill issue. that’s a stat wall

so what happens?

pures stop going there
lower builds stop existing
everything compresses upward into meds and mains

build variety dies because lower brackets aren’t protected enough to function

even if you try to stay low combat, the game pushes you upward, you can’t really “live” in a bracket long term unless you freeze your account progression

pvp worlds don't really fix it either, you can't just hybrid there on a lower level

most active pvp world spots are near banks, that heavily favors edge style rush builds, you’re in a setup designed for longer fights with freezes and switches, they can just dump their specs and run away and try again and the bracketing there is still too wide

a hybrid style bounty hunter area would actually be good because it allows them to experiment with random shit without affecting the rest of the game similar to the bounty hunter armours

[fringe fjord]

then again virtually all of the discussions in this channel are useless because most of you can't move past the 'just do it without polling' mindset which isn't ever going to happen if it affects non-pvp'ers, so instead of pretending polling doesn't exist, the conversation should be about how to structure updates so they can actually pass

[river spindle]

Well, changes for Permanent Deadman world 45 doesn't require any polling to pass changes, so that's often a good place to test changes for PvP:)

It has static brackets of 3-75cmb, 76-85cmb and 86+cmb. So that allows pures to fight pures, and in the 85cmb bracket it's maxed pures with rigour/augury, 20def, 30def, 40def, 42def and 50def builds with lower hp, which seems to work out well for lower bracket PvP

[fringe fjord]

deadman mode in general is good to test new stuff

the wilderness just isn't

[winged thorn]

Luckily this is just a place for us to discuss. At the inception of the channel the Mods of the discord told us not to rly expect J Mods to read or consider anything we are talking about. It’s really just us discussing PvP.

With that being said, the stance of “don’t poll PvP updates” is moreso because of the “I vote not to all PvP updates haha :)” attitude.

Idk how to combat that because I don’t think you can cater any update to someone who is simply going to spite vote no on it :v

Also a pure is glass cannon, it’ll never be able to compete with a main because of self-imposed restrictions

[fringe fjord]

non pvpers don't need to vote on content that happens in a opt in pvp instance they do need to vote on content that happens outside of it

that's how you fix it

[winged thorn]

I see what you mean but at that point you should just remove wildy

& that’s not really what anyone wants lol

[fringe fjord]

not really about removing the wilderness more about focusing on content that can realistically happen

wilderness is probably just fkd so any effort spend on it is largely wasted

[winged thorn]

Right but if you can’t update the wilderness because of what you just said, why have it

What’s the point then?

Kinda redundant imo

[fringe fjord]

allocating pvp content that wilderness players would engage in an instance would give them something to do since the wilderness isn't going to change

[echo harness]

I think Jagex really just needs to decide whether to lean in to pking or lean into, well, not having pking

because ultimately the big issue is that the population of people in the wildy who're there to get loot is much greater than the population of people there to kill the first group (or fight amongst themselves, in the food chain hierarchy or just solo)

and so every interaction in the wildy has the side who want that interaction to not exist and the side that does, but 1 pker can kill, idk, 10x their number of non-pkers, and that means that when voting on the future of those interactions from the people who engage in them, the pkers are outnumbered 10 to 1

so they keep compromising and trying to make the wildy safer to appease the majority group, but it doesn't actually solve anything because the issue is fundamental and they can't have it both ways indefinitely

[winged thorn]

Well said! There needs to be balance

Unfortunately it seems like every change to the wild takes away from the population that engages in it

[echo harness]

yeah

like

look, I don't love multi revs on a conceptual level because I think content that rewards fees to large external groups are a very easy gateway to RWT by putting lots of power and cash in the hands of organizations with no oversight; I'm not a huge fan of the BA boosting communities for the same reason

but removing them and outscaling their economic value clearly destroyed a lot of appealing clan v clan resource control battles, and the replacement isn't even good for the people it's been redesigned for because it's still a pvp zone and (in aggregate, obviously some people are cool with singles pkers but not clans) their issue isn't multi clans as such but being pk'd as a whole

sure, irons want wildy weapons and cloggers want numbers to go up and lots of people want them to farm the wildy bosses, but people who want those weapons don't generally enjoy the process of actually getting them, which again means the rev caves are a necessary evil for some and have been made outright useless for its original fans

you will never make people who don't want to pvp enjoy the process of signing up for pvp in order to get something they actually want

[winged thorn]

I don’t wanna cherry-pick & derail what we are really talking about. But I think if you’ve created an open world sandbox game & players can create their own systems within it like BA boosting & Raids boosting & holding down Revs, I think you’ve accomplished something epic as a Game Dev. Obviously once you get into the RWT issue, yes, something needs to be done. But that shouldn’t detract from the former imo

Just something I’ve been thinking about

Re the main topic: I think Jagex had the right idea when making rev weps have a better drop rate when on a slayer task. If they could figure out ways to buff players who aren’t there for PvP in similar ways, I think we’d have the start of the formula

[fringe fjord]

would like to see more hotspots in lower level wilderness

maybe a mechanic that the deeper you go the higher your drop rate for the uniques

so deep is still relevant but has a lower risk option

a lot of the depth choices just don't really make that much sense

i.e resource area is alright but not good enough to validate it being in level 50.

[winged thorn]

I think back when it was added to the game it was

[fringe fjord]

yh

[winged thorn]

But the resource area hasn’t been updated in how long?

That’s the real issue of the wildy t

The methods that are there are irrelevant to a player when other better & safer options exist

[fringe fjord]

the irony is

changes to content like that would probably pass a poll

if it even needs to be polled

but it just hasn't been suggested

[winged thorn]

There’s been a few suggestions for that part of the wilderness, but it normally gets drowned out by everything else

This is just my opinion, but I don’t really care what brings people to the wild, as long as it brings people to the wild

[fringe fjord]

you care because you prefer pvper vs pvper content

if the reward level is too low then its mostly going to be people in salads killing bots and those kinds of pkers aren't even worth hunting

that's why scorpia is so ass

not even fun to get some friends and hunt the teams there

because they don't risk anything

that kinda content just isnt really needed

[winged thorn]

No genuinely, I don’t care what the content is as long as it brings activity to the wild. All activity is good activity. Personally, I have an acc for each bracket, so it wouldn’t really matter what nor where the content is. As long as it serves the purpose of attracting players, then pkers, then teams, it’s a success imo

[fringe fjord]

it needs to attract players not bots and gold farmers

[winged thorn]

Scorpia is dead as heck I agree - but maxers run into multi all the time up there. I don’t wanna name and shame but there’s a guy who loves to run into multi up there in 40m risk

& he normally has a team of 4-5 ppl risking the same

[winged thorn]

Gold farmers are apart of the ecosystem if you’re a pker. It’s not my job to police them

[fringe fjord]

arguably not a good idea to make content that isn't worth doing for real players

[winged thorn]

Yep that’s why I said “if it attracts players it’s working”

[fringe fjord]

would actually like to see the return of a bounty system in the wilderness

[fringe fjord]

least hype dmm finale ever

the only fun part of dmm finale for normal players was going all out on last day because the perm worlds don't matter but they disabled that

[wide crater]

Tbh id like to see some sort of new content (that isnt skilling related) in deep wildy as well. Yea theres scorpia, but thats all but dead content. Would be super cool to get a deep wild singles boss.

Also i was thinking, 99% of people starting out in pvp for the first time are probably pretty close to max combat. I think adding an LMS update but a wilderness version would be cool. That way people can pick their own gear that theyre more comfortable with, and it could have some sort of SBMM that way youre not getting dudes who are there for the first time fighting against people like oda or eliop or whoever else. Obviously there would be gear value requirements

[wide crater]

Nah idk whats been up lately, but during the day before my friends are on ive been baiting 1-2 ppl at a time to singles and getting 2-3m keys. Not GREAT, but pretty significant for multi risk

Also @winged thorn grats on blowing up on reddit lmfao

[winged thorn]

insane huh l00l

[wide crater]

Bro absolute insanity 😂 all that just bc of who you are not even cus you said or did anythinf

[fringe fjord]

bracket 95 worlds in dmm too full for new players imagine grinding your account for weeks and being locked out

[winged thorn]

i hate to get deeper than necessary, but that mentality is echoed throughout all of society these days....

[wide crater]

Nah thats facts lol its silly

[winged thorn]

what's even more silly is that someone who thinks like that will see our interaction & ignore that our clans fight each other!

[echo harness]

who the hell cares about your pk clan affiliation lol

[winged thorn]

Good question

[echo harness]

lmao

[winged thorn]

Idk if I can post that becuase it includes Reddit names

But still hilarious

[echo harness]

the pvp community, of which clans apparently aren't a part despite engaging in pvp constantly

the mythical true pvpers are having their voices drowned out by your cogent discussions and honest assesments of the wildy

[fringe fjord]

the context changes when you're talking about a clan that's so bad of an influence on pvp that it's members have gotten chainbanned

[winged thorn]

Good thing that’s Jagex’s job

Mob mentality is silly

Grab pitchforks & torches & burn the witch in the town square while you’re at it lol

[echo harness]

jed got fired and had to change his name and dmm no longer has cash rewards

what's said clan even gonna do lmao

oh no, I'll get piled on if I go to vet'ion with 3 friends while in rags, the horror

[winged thorn]

Most people don’t even engage in PvP so the mass histeria is just funny to me

[fringe fjord]

'I might be a member of an organisation that has actively undermined the game historically with doxxing, ddossing, having literal spies in the moderation team that stole items and names but I am one of the good guys and my opinion deserves to be heard' type of argument

[winged thorn]

You mean a clan will hold down a couple worlds doing content you never plan to engage in? Alright now what

[echo harness]

I think it was mostly oda viewers who got real mad at the legion of bot archers killing him in that one dmm

and then it's just spiraled

[glacial gate]

oh no a clan will hold 2 worlds out of 800 possible wilderness worlds to hop through. THE HORROR!

[winged thorn]

I shouldn’t have an opinion on the game I play though

😂

Asinine

[glacial gate]

if i cant pvm on the 2350 worlds uninterrupted by no pkers whatsoever the game is ruined.

[winged thorn]

My argument is, if a team is actively locking down worlds, that’s just guaranteed action for me as a pker lol

Like that’s rly not a bad thing to me

[glacial gate]

i just rag those worlds and take those sets

ive never saw an issue with it just means a guranteed loot button on the world hopper

[wide crater]

THIS. I dont have to play hop simulator, i always KNOW exactly where the action is

[glacial gate]

i play hop simulator 🙁

[wide crater]

I quit playing hop simulator lmao i just log like 5 accounts in random places now till i see something i want 😂

[wide crater]

ayo anyone know why i cant share a picture here?

[inner dew]

need to type more to unlock it

[nocturne birch]

Someone posted recently in #1022203837265756231 (which is mostly where I chat) about PvP polls only being voteable in by PvPers. But that led to also the discussion of "what PvP changes could pass with wide/general player support?" & IMO there are quite a few. Specifically changes which would "make PvP more casual". These might not necessarily be the changes the whole PvP community wants but would hopefully be changes that would bring more players into PvP, which I believe is something everyone wants

Here's kinda the text I'm thinking of posting to Reddit:
What would more casual PvP look like?
I personally really enjoyed the most recent Deadman and especially the removal of bank keys. This was advertised as a move by Jagex to make DMM more casual friendly, and in line with the prior move to not lose XP on death in DMM. It seems to have been successful, with I think more people playing this DMM.

This has got me thinking:
What would more casual PvP look like?
What changes could be made to make PvP (in the main game, in DMM, or in minigames) more approachable & friendly to new players?
What changes would go too far, changing PvP so it's not enjoyable or appealing any more to the existing PvP community?

This is certainly not something I have the answers to; I've played in 3 DMMs & sometimes go in the wilderness but would not consider myself a PKer. But I hope the PvP community & Jagex starts thinking more about & promoting ideas which could make PvP more approachable.

More casual PvP & more people starting to PvP should be a win for everyone:

• for new players because they get to enjoy something new
• for existing PvP players because just having more players means more active PKing, less time just hopping worlds & searching for fights

Updates to make PvP more casual also seem like they would be able to pass polls more easily than other PvP updates, because they appeal more broadly to the general community. More players also justifies Jagex spending more time on this part of the game.

What could be some example changes?

• Finally solve skull tricking with better player attack options
• Let irons save up PK keys for a bond without an alt
• Let folks choose which 1,3,4 items are kept on death to PKer, so you could eg keep an imbued slayer helm over a whip even though whip is worth more on GE. Or drop straight gp to PKers rather than the items themselves so mains don't have to rebuy them and irons don't have to reobtain them.
• Add non-LMS (with its tribidding terminator bots) boss or minigame to introduce players to PvP
• Delineate between multi & singles zones (at least in the wilderness) with some environmental cues
• Eliminating and/or better teaching some of the random special PvP rules, like those in the rev caves or not being able to deposit bank items while in PvP combat

Or some suggestions which might be going too far:

• Better multi mechanics, eg limiting the number of players who can attack one player to some #, perhaps by giving actual mechanical meaning to clan chats/teams to still support big clan fights without 30 people being able to absolutely annihilate any 1-3 people in the wildy.
• Make most LMS rewards untradeable to combat bots, moving some of the tradable versions to other content
• Make a structured 3v3 or 5v5 activity/minigame for the dedicated multi players & for new players to join in on
• Reduce the duration of consecutive freezes
• Having a weaker tribrid offensive prayer to make switching styles repeatedly easier

[winged thorn]

a lot of good takes and some that i strongly disagree with, but i appreicate you typing this all out personally.
i'd rather them add a mini game for 3v3 & 5v5s, rather than changing how multi works (making it so piles are limited)
i think "casual" pvp currently is LMS. it is sweaty, but there's no risk & the only thing you "pay" with is your time.

[inner dew]

it has to be clear what "casual" means. no risk or low risk is for sure an obvious way. but anything that affects balancing should not be done purely to attract "a larger audience" because thats not what will happen, the only reason pvp exists is BECAUSE it has a in depth progression that has many strategies and intricacies.

[nocturne birch]

I think you should always have a high skill ceiling but you can potentially lower the floor so it's easier to get started

[winged thorn]

i agree, but what does that mean?

allowing ppl to pvp for free and profit?

[inner dew]

the way i would look at balance (in any pvp game) is if anything were to be simplified, it should be in order to fill the void by adding new layers to the complexity and not simply to water it down.

the tricky part with runescape is that the click intensiveness is built into the balance (particularly for NHing/tribrid), even the absolute best player has to sacrifice clicks (e.g. to focus more on their offense, or more on their defence) because they cant do everything at once. they physically cannot optimally flick all prayers and gear switches and do good movement simultaneously, especially when facing equally skilled opponents because they have to work overtime to be less predictable by doing extra switches on gear/prayer etc.

if for example everybody had an AHK/client that made switches and prayer switches 1 button press away, it would not neccessarily make the pvp more casual. all it would do for sure is change the meta.

[wooden basin]

Tbh, theres plenty of ways to practice pvping in the game with 0 risk. The problem is most players are a bunch of afking cloggers and they'd rather not pvp. Which is why i believe wilderness based stuff shouldn't be polled. If it is, there should be requirements to vote for those types of questions and not just any player who bank stands or skills most of their playtime.

The wildy does need some change imo, but that has nothing to do with skillers engaging in pvp.

People are too scared to leave their comfort zones

[nocturne birch]

This just seems like an incorrect understanding to me. OSRS players do love to AFK but the PvM community is much larger than the PvP community and PvM is also quite skill & click intensive. Not as high & much more predictable but very much not "AFK clogging"

[wooden basin]

Like i said, they have a comfort zone and they wont leave it.

Pvming is far easier and more lenient to jump into than pvping (in the wild specifically)

[nocturne birch]

And by plenty of ways you mean LMS and uhh PvP Arena? Part of the problem here seems to be that Jagex cannot design good mini games that folks want to engage in without boosting or botting.

[wooden basin]

You can practice a boss non-stop until you learn its mechanics enough to make minimum mess ups. Pvping requires reading each player that you fight.

[wooden basin]

Castle wars, soul wars. There's plenty of them. Regardless, those are all within a comfort zone that the average pker has no interest in (except lms)

[nocturne birch]

I believe there is an appetite for some form of "honor" PvP which is easier than LMS tribridding

[nocturne birch]

No one much plays any of those games though because there's no real reward for playing them correctly as opposed to just boosting them / playing AFK or sub optimally and still reaping good rewards

[winged thorn]

so bh lms?

like edge style, dump spec veng style, lms

would be interesting and a decent start for noobs ig

[nocturne birch]

Yeah maybe so. Spec weapons are so much sexier than freezes

[winged thorn]

yeah but even if dmm finals were to be singles, meta would be tribrid always

[wooden basin]

The reward is learning how to fight players, lol.

The problem is, actual pkers like risk/reward so they're not going to populate any of those mini games. There really is no in between.

[winged thorn]

i think the disconnect is a lot of ppl dont understand the hunt

[wooden basin]

Yeah

[winged thorn]

if i wanna nonstop pvp, i go lms or bh

if i wanna HUNT i go wildy

hunting is way better

[wooden basin]

Exactly. And you cant just add something else to the game as an attempted "in between" that isnt going to be played by anyone.

Lms is that in between

No risk but rewarding

But if players dont want to leave their comfort zone, they'll always hate pkers and continue to spite vote

[inner dew]

they could maybe help populate minigames if they do a rotation where each day or weekend they try to bring everyone to do one of them in particular

(can also just be done by community obviously)

[wooden basin]

Yeah jmod events would be nice

An interesting one that i used to participate in is clan wars community

But they mainly do f2p wars and my clan isnt about that

[nocturne birch]

Yeah improving minigames & like perhaps weekly tournaments or some such seems like a good thing

But folks get upset with "missing out on things" / not being able to just go do something whenever

[inner dew]

cos ideally a huge variety of gamemodes is alot more cool, but then it inevitably makes it tricky to decide what one to do and when

[inner dew]

it would help if you could see that theres X many ppl playing castle wars right now, or at what time it was last active so ppl can join in

like in classic shooter games we used to have server browsers so we could just pick and choose whatever map/gamemode we like. now those games moved onto more standardised queue systems which are alot more clunky.

[fast cradle]

f2p is the start of the revival

[wooden basin]

It is fun for sure

[fast cradle]

i take it you played during bh craters/F2P pvp world era

little to no risk and fun

thats how you bring life back to the wilderness

creates the platform for P2P

people engage in f2p pvp either 1v1 or multi, they then realise its fun

then they venture into p2p when they want more

its like a drug

[wooden basin]

Yeah taste of blood is what initially sets people up to engage into wilderness activities. Ive had a lot of inexperienced clannies decide to come pking with us and now they go regularly lol

But yeah people not engaging in the activity is where the problem lies. Leaving the comfort zone

[fast cradle]

in 2006 i decided to make an F2P pest control prod pure

little did I know id meet the leader of supreme 0wnage

he convinced me to pure pk

practiced in duel arena then 1v1 wildy

then multi

rest is history I suppose

people make of it what they will, ultimately you cant force people to PvP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKNrwb06Hn0

the good old days

no hp bars, no cheat clients, no AHK

to make progress you've got to look at the past to see what created the foundations @wooden basin

sure people want p2p this p2p that

but by making the simplest of PvP active you create the pathway

[wooden basin]

Yeah makes sense

[fast cradle]

F2P needs a wilderness boss which can't be bot farmed, limited to X worlds to create a hotspot like hills back in the day

the boss will make 1v1 active, give incentive for people to make f2p pking accounts

in turn will create clans

theres the vacuum it would create @wooden basin

[wooden basin]

That would be pretty sick actually. But being that itd be f2p they'd need to make sure to make it impossible to bot

[fast cradle]

to make it impossible to bot you make it where the drops have specific purpose E.I PvP , potentially untradable

having such limited worlds fixes alot of that problem as well

[inner dew]

yeah stuff that degrades or only lasts 30-60 mins seems like a no brainer

so that u go and actually use it to pk with

[fast cradle]

you combat cap the entry to the boss, along with a total level requirement

you have the boss have 2 attack styles and able to attack everyone in the surrounding area

make it teleblock people

easy.

you either survive and get a kill where the loot is so rare or kill the people killing the boss

degradable magic armour as new F2P BiS was my suggestion many years ago to this concept @inner dew

comparable to FOG

mage armour

[inner dew]

ya was gonna say magic makes sense since theres not any

[fast cradle]

you make it untradable lost on death for coins

being so rare

you create a demand.

the boss would always be active

[fast cradle]

oh well we can only suggest ideas, most of the time they fall on deaf ears @inner dew

[brazen fox]

Never underestimate the power of veng outlast 17 brew setup 🤣

Ofc the winner would prob be brid but ngl veng tank setup would prob make it pretty far

Like 7 years ago dmm finale it was 1yna vs some veng bolter in semi finals

Ofc 1yna won it cuz he’s one of the GOATs but ye

[minor aspen]

where we pkin tonight? been hoppin around revs and haven't found much

[wooden basin]

Didnt like that suggestion? I thought it was ok

[echo harness]

my personal suspicion is that too few people enjoy the zero-sum gameplay of osrs pvp in a game that's become all about efficient progression so the potential playerbase of pkers is still relatively small

which means the problem isn't just that people can't learn without being thrown in the deep end, which is definitely not great, but also that they don't want to learn because pvp deaths are so punishing compared to current, much more generous death mechanics

but idk it's probably worth at least seeing if that's true or not by offering more ways to learn than going in in rags and hoping you learn something by killing people at chaos altar

[glacial gate]

We just had dmm. Everyone in the game had the option to learn a little bit about pking during those weeks.
You can't change if people aren't confident enough to attack someone.
Gear fear is real, and hilarious.

[wooden basin]

"Back to our comfort zone" lmao

[fast cradle]

ll

[glacial gate]

I had people going out in mystics last day of dmm so i attacked them personally.

[fast cradle]

top bants

take it they didn't even put tank switch on

😄

[fiery trout]

Just watched a video so came here to say… mage cape spellbook swap shouldn’t work in wildly

[winged thorn]

😭

[fiery trout]

How much do people learn when being DD’d while frozen against a 1 tick 6 swap ahker? The wilderness sucks because of a lot of reasons. Use to be fun but it’s too advanced and too many cheaters for people to “learn” anymore.

[void dune]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpAikQy8ZSA

[wide crater]

I agree and disagree with some parts. Idk about dmm cus i wasnt able to play, but in my experience in PvP cheaters have not been NEARLY as common as theyre made out to be. In fact, i dont think ive ever fought another pker that i could guarantee was cheating (bear in mind im nowhere near the point of fighting max gear chads) . The only ahk ive ever fought were the anti pk rev bots, and lms ofc. As far as being advanced and difficult to learn, i cant agree with that either. Ive only been seriously nhing for like 4 months and i can 85% of the time either beat most ppl in my experience range or its coming down to whoever runs out of shit first kwim? @glacial gate is absolutely right, its really just about not being scared to lose stuff. Ive lost 100s of mils of gp throughout it but ive also made that

[fringe fjord]

you can already learn how to pk for free in lms or the pvp arena

reality is just that not many people want to do hybriding

offer the same thing in a more relaxed format i.e the kinds of fights you have at the ge in a pvp world and there will be a larger group of people that'll do it

[wide crater]

What i did in my old pvm clan was offer to supply gear to anyone that wanted to learn. Multi is a pretty decent first stepping stone, learning to tank, pray, prot item etc. id give every nee person like 50 dhide sets and whatnot and most of them ended up really having a good time

[minor aspen]

Yeah i concur, I think that the ahk cheater thing is blown up beyond proportion. I even think these Jagex ban waves have been catching a bunch, because I saw few before, and even less now.

the thing i don't like about lms is that the food/eating patterns don't carry over

[fringe fjord]

pls not another hybriding minigame

[glacial gate]

just freeze log if you get scared lol. Not everyone was a cheater or a giga either. Im sorry you had those experiences but also respectfully.

[fiery trout]

Don’t forget to bring your flower seeds to the wilderness lmao

[wide crater]

LOL i attacked a kid earlier and i forgot seeds. He froze and dd on me and said “seeds”

[fiery trout]

Don’t forget to turn on your third party runelite plugin so you can actually see the what the person is attacking you with. It’s just a dumb mechanic tbh.

[glacial gate]

dd fighting does suck don't get me wrong. I utilize it to because its necessary honestly with the general caliber of player.

[wooden basin]

What if jmods implemented a mechanic where you cant be under someone because they're a block of ice :p

[glacial gate]

you step under em and now you're stuck for half the freeze timer remaining lmao

i always thought we needed a item you can drop and damage people under you lmao

like a firecracker or something

[inner dew]

i dont think pvm teaches pvp

and i dont know why a safe minigame would give you pvp gear

[wide crater]

That and i dont like the idea of random gear. One guy gets full blood moon and i get a 3rd age range hat, cool

[wooden basin]

I made a suggestion one time that if you had a log and tinderbox on you, should halve freeze time if you light it. Or a torch lol

[wooden basin]

Isnt that what lms does

[winged thorn]

The counter to dd brid is movement & space btw

[inner dew]

just supplies i thought

also atleast lms is actual pvp (besides bots)

[winged thorn]

Lms does give VLS as a reward

[wooden basin]

True. Simulated pvp (pvm) i think would help those who are scared to learn though

(The suggestion within the link, not anything within game rn)

Maybe its that bridge thats needed but idk

[minor aspen]

next time you're in a brid fight just say "dd and i leave", and if he dd then just freeze log/tele 🙂

[granite plume]

Would be interested to hear from pkers if the video framed made today has any good ideas in it.

Tldr - The proving grounds
Wave based pvm that slowely teaches you how to pk

[inner dew]

if its focused on being a tutorial it makes sense but if its literally just a PVM thing that doesnt teach you pvp specifics it is just odd

[granite plume]

You'd have to watch the vid tbh

[inner dew]

yeah i watched it

[granite plume]

Ah cool

Tutorial would be good

[inner dew]

cos the way prayers work in PVM is alot different to pvp

[granite plume]

Yeah

[inner dew]

in pvm generally you can perfectly pray switch everything

[granite plume]

If they ramped up the dt2 pker fight

That would be dope

[inner dew]

in pvp players can switch at the last tick to make it so you cant actually pray perfectly, its just guessing correctly

which is like advanced rock paper scissors

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/PvP_terminology
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Player_killing/Mechanics
the wiki has some tutorial level stuff like these

but it seems its missing some mechanics or some suggestions are just outdated

and tutorial videos usually have the same issue, particularly because they probably dont wanna make a 2 hour long video. its hard to condense so much info into video formats

it might be best if a ingame tutorial started u off with the most basic of pk builds, which is probably F2P style with just bow + 2h switch

but like u cant actually do that content unless u go and make an account for it

[minor parcel]

It doesnt need to be f2p no? Most pking would be in members so a members miniquest could work well imo. You wouldn't need to change the character into any builds either you could just have em face off against npcs with the different builds to experience the difference.

[teal lagoon]

pvp is broken .... no pvp zone from zammy mage south..... near where ppl would lure u..... super annoying

[proven pulsar]

where can i learn 1 defence f2p pvp

[inner dew]

these are some old vids i came across the other day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heIGIzgQ7hU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS0KJSV9qRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqWuJWRJT2k

im sure theres newer ones too if u search

you may want to check if people are still running 40 attack or just focusing on strength to use rune warhammer (no attack requirement)

[proven pulsar]

ive already got 20 attack

i think people use rune 2hs

[inner dew]

yeah im not sure how different the builds are, just seen a few strange ones on youtube

[proven pulsar]

alr ty ^^

[brazen fox]

Nah it’s fine cuz u lose at least 2 brews to do it

So if someone tries to cape u and ur not 10x worse than them u got a free set

[brazen fox]

I said it before in here but dd ain’t that scary

It’s just mass hysteria

If u go lms with deathdotter plugin or type ::renderself on mobile

And literally just bolt rag em the entire dd and change ur prayers

Then try to freeze near end of freeze timer

U will be down maybe like 20 deserved

But ye agree with the other guy 99% of these people u think are cheaters are legit

Tbh I’m a slow af clicker and I get called a cheater at least once per day

[inner dew]

well some prob dont realise it will still be done with trees, corners etc

but i like that better cos then u dont need weird settings to go invis and it doesnt happen everywhere for free

the crazy movement ppl do is cooler to watch happen than DDing

[brazen fox]

Yh same people who complain ab dd prob just do same mechanic behind trees except they stop themselves from using melee

[jovial leaf]

Bones of the idea are a good concept but i feel like anyone who is a chance of trying to learn to pvp already knows how to combo eat & use prayer. Very large part in helping/fostering new players was the ability to play and learn from friends which was removed with the pj timer changes.

Not saying the pj timer changes were for the better or worse, it's just an overlooked result from those changes.

[granite plume]

just need updates to help teach people how and foster an environment where pking is core to the game

as an iron i would pk if i had gear that could be charged with kills

[jovial leaf]

that would be nice haha

I think there is something in his idea that can develop into a real change to the wilderness

but boxing it up into a mini game with no real replayability is probably not going to do too much

and unfortunately anything outside of that will get spite voted into the core of the earth

[granite plume]

even if the vid stirs convo - may lead to actual ideas to the proposals and implementation

which is good

[jovial leaf]

hopefully!

[granite plume]

the jmods need to have pking on their minds

and the wildy

i remember when they got rid of wildy. game felt off

[brazen fox]

Make 1k win cape bis cape

But nah I do think ppl would enjoy the content a lot more if it was more accessible

But also I feel like ppl don’t rly try

They just decide dd is cringe op and give up

[fringe fjord]

game already teaches the fundamentals of pking in end game content since you need to be able to switch prayers while attacking and use weapons in the right phases, reality is that most players can't do end game content and thus also can't do hybriding, they have no interest in it and no amount of teaching will make them do it.

most good pvmers do fine in pvp as well.

and most good pvpers are also good at pvm due to it

but most players are neither.

[brazen fox]

I think PvP skill transfers to PvM more than the other way around

Like pvmers probs get stuck in prayer book standing in robes and 5tick their attacks

[fringe fjord]

there's already low ball forms of pvp that aren't that hard to get into yet no effort is made to promote them or fix their issues.

list me the last update to pvp worlds, and mind you, everyone in pvp worlds is there specifically to pk, there's no prey dynamics, they don't even need to poll it to outsiders because it doesn't affect anyone outside of those worlds.

but it doesn't happen and instead we keep getting wilderness proposals that flop every time

[brazen fox]

What low ball forms of PvP

LMS?

I mean PvP worlds kinda boring anyway dh veng

Same with bh

Vw camp veng fights zzzz

[fringe fjord]

boring is good

its boring because its easy

that means its good for beginners to get into

doesn't require much brain power

[brazen fox]

Learning nh can be easy as well tho

Obviously the skill ceiling is insanely high

[fringe fjord]

nh is fundamentally the highest skill ceiling in pvp so no.

[brazen fox]

But u can make progress and have fun

I think just encouraging ppl to veng fight doesn’t help anything

[fringe fjord]

progress towards a form that most players just are not interested in just like they aren't doing end game pvm content

the average player likes braindead easy content like clicking sarachnis.

you aren't going to convince them to nh.

[brazen fox]

I mean if u go on streaming site 90%+ of pk streamers are NHing and when u ask someone that wants to learn they’ll say they wanna learn nh

Because it’s challenging and high skill ceiling

[fringe fjord]

that's just people watching it

i watch boxing

i have no interest in being hit against the head myself

it doesn't translate

i love watching nh content

i hate nh'ing

[brazen fox]

I mean it does though? People genuinely want to learn this stuff

[fringe fjord]

they do not

[brazen fox]

Because it looks cool and fun

Bro

[fringe fjord]

or else they would just do lms

[brazen fox]

Yeah

There are a lot of learners in lms

[fringe fjord]

lms is very dead most of the time besides bots

the bots arent any harder to kill than any mid tier boss though so theyre probably not what prevents people from getting good

[brazen fox]

Bro have u been in lms recently

Most bots are gone

Some of the afk auto retaliate bots are back

[fringe fjord]

yes its mostly just empty now

[brazen fox]

This was legit yesterday

[brazen fox]

I mean it’s insta games any time I’m online

More from same event

There are way more people that want to learn NH than you think tbh

They just find it hard to get into cuz they stand in robes all day and get cooked

I think we had like 30+ in vc or something

Of just people wanting to try nh in lms and get some help in real time

[fringe fjord]

there are already many instances where you can learn nh if you want to.

another one won't magically revive it.

you can already practise on bots that do essentially the same thing as any real player escaping in the wilderness would do.

[brazen fox]

Wym revive it it’s prob the most popular form of pking

But u could say the same with veng fights

[fringe fjord]

it is the smallest least popular niche in all of pvp.

[brazen fox]

How so?

If ur gna include bh as minigame then include lms fights too

In wildy nh is the most popular by a mile

[fringe fjord]

views doesn't mean it's a popular pvp style

[brazen fox]

Am not talking about views am talking about actual fights

[fringe fjord]

wildy nh at revs you meet the same 15 people over and over again

it's a very small community

[brazen fox]

Ge pvp world is essentially that

But ngl there’s way more ppl hopping revs/altar than u think

[fringe fjord]

because pvp worlds haven't had an update in like a decade

[brazen fox]

Sure 304 is the same 15 sweats

But outside that there’s a lot of ppl

[fringe fjord]

pvp worlds used to be far more active but they never fixed any of the things wrong with it

[brazen fox]

What would u wanna change anyway lmao it’s just veng fights

[fringe fjord]

has rampant issues with ragging, and you can't spec restore easily.

can't host either

[brazen fox]

House tab and pool no?

[fringe fjord]

yeah 85 con to be able to use pvp worlds

[brazen fox]

65

[[restoration pool]]

[river glen]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Restoration_pool

[fringe fjord]

85, otherwise you're bringing anti venom + food lol

• prayer pots

[brazen fox]

U can build altar at like 45 con

[fringe fjord]

inconvenient

[brazen fox]

It’s 1 more click

And u said issue is regen spec

[fringe fjord]

you need a teleport to ge which you need jewelbox for anyway

otherwise have fun bringing a wealth ring with you

[brazen fox]

I mean u can do varrock med, u can tele cammy then RoW etc

[minor aspen]

Another learning curve is 1 tick specing that I think is a bit harder to practice than other mechanics. If using rcb (most of the time, even in lma) you don’t have spec bar, if you use another weapon you’re probably risking a lot more than you want when learning.

[brazen fox]

U can go edge

A million ways to do that

[fringe fjord]

pures cant do varrock med

[brazen fox]

Oki tele cammy then row

Regen spec is not a real issue

[fringe fjord]

there's a literal pool that restores everything for everyone directly at bh.

[brazen fox]

Yh and look what happens

Spec tab rushers

[fringe fjord]

?

you can't tab in bh

[brazen fox]

Yh cheapest staff with specbar outside of flail is like a few mil

Or u can dcb

[fringe fjord]

you cant rush either because you cannot go back into the center right away

[minor aspen]

Msb was really good at that - maybe we could get a 60 ranged short-bow that has a spec bar

[brazen fox]

Bro bh is full of rushers

They jus rush u pool then tele target

[fringe fjord]

you have like 30 seconds to kill them regardless before they can escape

no overheads either so you can just dbow axe them

[minor aspen]

Maybe a 60 range dragon shortbow made out of new sailing components

[fringe fjord]

ranged weapon with attack requirement wot

[minor aspen]

Sorry, i mean 60 ranged

[brazen fox]

Dbow axe kinda sucks anyway they can tick eat it and you would need to max max

[fringe fjord]

rush builds are ass in bh not many people play them anymore

[brazen fox]

I mean max cb rushers

Claw rushing all day

There’s a lot of em

It’s cringe

[fringe fjord]

i dont play in the main bracket

[brazen fox]

Yh that’s fine but am saying spec tab gameplay is a problem

[fringe fjord]

115s is super easy

[brazen fox]

Bcos they just pool tele target

[fringe fjord]

idk about 120+

[minor aspen]

Isn’t there a timer after spec before you can tab?

[brazen fox]

Ye but they just run laps of the crater

[fringe fjord]

you can't even teleport in bh and it won't let you in for like 30 seconds

dont know about max mains but rushers are super easy to deal with in pure brackets

[brazen fox]

Ye on main it’s more cringe

[fringe fjord]

everyone stopped playing those super low hp prod accounts after a few months

because theyre not that good

[brazen fox]

Cuz they pre veng have 121 hp and claw rush so u can’t get a big veng

Then they run laps of crater til timer is up

Then regen spec and tele to target and repeat

And they’re skulled so skipping isn’t free

[fringe fjord]

honestly main pking is kind of ass in general because there's no optimization to be done

building accounts is at least partially the fun of pvp

theres no advantage to be had at 126

[brazen fox]

That’s some of the appeal tho

Everyone got same stats

It’s just diff mindset than pure/med/range tank stuff

[fringe fjord]

yeah I get it

[winged thorn]

Other than the one you consistently complain about when it comes to deep wildy pking

I have an advantage over anything below me. & theoretically there are no bigger fish

[fringe fjord]

i solve this issue by not doing it

[winged thorn]

[granite sphinx]

smh man not another "pvp in runescape needs to be fixed" video that completely misses all the actual problems with the wildy in the game

[fringe fjord]

if only there was a boss that taught you how to flick your prayers accurately while fighting back and moving.....if only there was a boss that had a phase where you'd use your melee special attack as if it's in robes for a maximum chance of hitting MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

if only it had levels and progressively got harder....surely we need another minigame that teaches this

if only there was a way to simulate fighting other players using somewhat unpredictable patterns to try to escape you

[granite sphinx]

oh goodie another event instead of having a jmod try out actual pvp and figure out the problems with it we're giving them 100k hp to afk in castle wars w/ 😄

[fringe fjord]

i remember reddit being all like 'what we need is a place that lets you try out different builds at no risk that way people can ease into pvp' and then they made the emirs arena and people only use it to boost imbues

[granite sphinx]

yeah idk why they even bothered to build that place if the plan was to totally abandon any idea of rewards after putting it in game lol

[winged thorn]

Even with boosting for the imbues, meta for that isn’t even to fight lol. Ppl just wanna get in & get out as fast as possible

Whole thing is flawed

[fringe fjord]

they keep coming with ideas where there's almost no reward because they don't want pvp to be botted

[granite sphinx]

yeah that excuse gets old

like aeverything in the game is botted pvp isnt special

[fringe fjord]

'we don't want people massively boosting emblems again!' bro it was 10 people at the mind altar.

i remember them polling removing the skeleton from edge bh and it not passing

little shits randomly slapped your pre angler away

most of the boosting was literally just ironmen trying to get a rune pouch

[granite sphinx]

facts

[fringe fjord]

it never even went well for them because everyone in bh thought it was hilarious to harass boosters

[granite sphinx]

i just wish there was updates outside of dmm that actually made rs interesting to play 🙁

its been so stagnant for so long

[fringe fjord]

wilderness shit won't pass a poll and has to pass a poll because it's not instanced

[granite sphinx]

its a lot less painful rn with TBC releasing again, but like if that wasnt out id be so lost rn

cuz literally nothing to do on osrs

[fringe fjord]

but they basically got free range with pvp worlds or bh and they still don't do it

there's nothing preventing nh craters

[granite sphinx]

yeah, i mean nh craters might do SOMETHING but i have to imagine with it being 1 world at a time its just gonna end up being like the same 4-5 demons each bracket that fight at enclave/altar all day long

[fringe fjord]

someone said I was lying when I said that when you're nh pking at revs it's literally running into the same 15 people over and over again and that the scene is not that big.

[granite sphinx]

clearly someone who's never pked out there lol

[fringe fjord]

there's lots of people pking noobs and bots but not actually that many pking other pkers.

[winged thorn]

Singles+ enables that

But ppl don’t wanna have that discussion

[granite sphinx]

its actually almost unbelievable to me that people can bury their heads in the sand and not understand how thats the root of like 75% of the problems out there rn lol

[winged thorn]

First it killed singles clans, which likely reduced the number of ppl actually pking. Then it made it so if you attack a pvmer & prey upon them, nothing can stop you

It hurts my brain ppl can’t put them together :c

[fringe fjord]

singles plus also allows you to go there as a not so good player and kill noobs without having to worry about getting piled by a team of macers and that's most people 'pking' in the wilderness

or at least is now.

[winged thorn]

Luckily you can only be maced if you go into multi

Where singles+ doesn’t matter

[fringe fjord]

yes but revs used to be multi.

[granite sphinx]

i mean the being able to wear 2b of gear without a worry of dying is why people whose job it is to play the game claim its "good for the game"

[winged thorn]

& there were a handful of mace clans

[granite sphinx]

meanwhile they find a timmy in mystic robes do you think theyre offing him because its "unfair"? lol

[fringe fjord]

that is true too

if you don't overstay on purpose you basically can't die in singles plus

[winged thorn]

Gotta get my 14 second YouTube clip of me owning this guy in 1m gear

[granite sphinx]

part of the reason why PvP videos have fallen off so much, its the exact same video recycled for the last 4 years lol

nothing interesting happens

[winged thorn]

At least we got framed camping edge dungeon telling us what’s wrong with PvP

[granite sphinx]

after watching the video i spaced out when he called BH a "step in the right direction" and "done right now after 9 years" and then talked about how the pj timer was a great update jagex had

[winged thorn]

Funny to me how the entire game screams that his video is the key to PvP!! Yet most of his content is hunting pvmers lol

[granite sphinx]

i think his solution is a pvp boss? which is like hows that gonna help lol

[winged thorn]

Arguably all bossing can prep you for PvP but actually doing PvP is how you get better

[granite sphinx]

yeah thats what i mean, like dont half the bosses in the game already fire different attacks at you and require gear switches?

do we think one more of those is gonna change that lol

[fringe fjord]

issue is that most players are too bad to do end game content

you cant expect players to nh when they struggle to do jad

[winged thorn]

Does that mean then we should water down NH pking for them?

[fringe fjord]

no it means you should promote a more braindead style of pvp

[winged thorn]

Yea we agree that edge style Lms would be helpful

[fringe fjord]

although some things can be streamlined

there's no reason why autocast with a tick delay shouldn't work or resizable icons for example

[granite sphinx]

i dont think an edge style lms does anything to revive wildy though is kinda my stance

[fringe fjord]

people dont edge pk in the wilderness but it might help with anti pking

[winged thorn]

I agree with that 100%

[fringe fjord]

you can learn how to antirush in there which should be helpful

[winged thorn]

In fact I’d argue it just removes more ppl from wildy/bh

Also the argument is, we rarely see PvP updates already. Would you really wanna waste it on another safe minigame?

[granite sphinx]

absolutely not

[glacial gate]

GM.
Bring back multi revs.
Dmm was incredible do it again like that but change the finale.
Please stop making lame minigames and just give good content that incentivizes the food chain the wilderness is all about.

[winged thorn]

If it’s something like fog that could just be imported or w/e, I don’t really mind. But like from scratch development? Ughhh

[granite sphinx]

multi revs poll while keeping singles + no better loot is already so unbelievably underwhelming, i cant imagine they pitched yet ANOTHER safe minigame

we already have like 6

[glacial gate]

its for ironmen

wish they got their own offline servers atp

[fringe fjord]

almost no one that's good at pvm struggles with pvp or vice versa most players are just too terrible at the game to do either

[granite sphinx]

just allow ironmen to loot stuff off the people they kill at this point

so they have an "incentive" theyre whining about

[glacial gate]

This statement is just flat out false.

[winged thorn]

Could def be boosted like crazy

[glacial gate]

Did you see gnomemonkey try to pvp? LMFAO

[fringe fjord]

didnt he beat oda

[winged thorn]

I think it’s smart to turn the loot into go towards a bond

[granite sphinx]

they already boost raids, minigames etc, why not just let em boost even more

who cares atp lol

[winged thorn]

You pk 14m, gz you can buy a bond

[winged thorn]

Fair point

[granite sphinx]

ironman hasnt had any sort of real integrity in like 6-7 years

[fringe fjord]

most of the current restrictions exist because they kept finding ways to not be ironmen on their ironmen because they don't actually wanna play ironman

rip karamja shop

[glacial gate]

sailing was a skill for ironmen

[fringe fjord]

think it's just a setup for future world expansion in the future

[granite sphinx]

sailing was also just the biggest waste of dev time ive ever seen lol

that skill was so uninteresting/underwhelming

[glacial gate]

dang almost like we could just teleport there or talk to a dude at a dock and be on a new continent for world expansion

you know like we always have for years and years.

the whole its a setup for expansion is cope.

their new daddy company wanted them to push out a new skill to drive hype and playerbase its as simple as and they put out a sloppy unfinished pos skill lol

[granite sphinx]

this is really all it was, was pushing Q4 numbers

[glacial gate]

revenants were ruined because of irons thinking they deserve everything

[granite sphinx]

honestly i do think ur right that this is the majority of the reason they changed multi revs

the locking down of like 10 worlds i dont buy for them changing it lol

[fringe fjord]

it was like 2 worlds and it was just south american money farmers rather than pk clans

[granite sphinx]

ehh rot had 2ks and 2.2s (?) locked down

but yeah the south american clans didnt really "lock down" anything

[glacial gate]

rot had 2k's 2.2k's.
Cpk had 1500's

total worlds were held down dont get me wrong.

but that was just loot for us pking them lmao

[granite sphinx]

totals yea, but when most people say "locked down" they usualyl are talking about a one-off world that someone swept thru every 5-10 min lol

it feels like unless u could afk rev farm for an hour people complained it was "locked down"

[fringe fjord]

i remember attacking 420 members with crystal bow and them crying on reddit a lot

[brazen fox]

It was me but 305 revs and 304 altar is the same few people but hopping around there’s a lot more - that’s legit what I said and I still stand by it fwiw

[granite sphinx]

Oh def not, when I hop around rev caves I always see the same faces lol

[brazen fox]

Ya u bump into the same ppl for sure but u see random names surely?

[granite sphinx]

hardly

[brazen fox]

[granite sphinx]

maybe like once in a day of pking

[brazen fox]

I hop altar I see randos quite a bit tbf

Well when I see anybody

[granite sphinx]

i think altar has more like lost noobies than caves for sure

[brazen fox]

I don’t hop revs as often cuz I feel like north caves is dead

[granite sphinx]

im usually in south caves

[brazen fox]

Ahh ye

I suck on normals so am rarely south caves tbf

[fringe fjord]

dmm riots in w344

[granite sphinx]

what are they rioting ab?

[fringe fjord]

dmm reward points were gonna be today

[granite sphinx]

their first time dealing w/ anything pvp related i c

[fringe fjord]

rewards arent available till the 25th anyway so its mostly just people thinking they gonna cash out on the old scrolls

[wooden basin]

If you get the dmm ma2 cape and lose it, can buy back from perdu?

[fringe fjord]

permanent kit i think

scroll is gone when you use

same with the weps you unlock them all with same scroll forever

[winged thorn]

You take your ma2 cape to Nigel

The entire game is going to find out how awful it is to stack dmm ma2 capes

[wooden basin]

Yeah price about to drop. Ill buy in a few weeks rofl

[forest ember]

wheres deadman mode?
its ridiculous that its been offline for 4 days now

[granite sphinx]

prob too busy working on sailing combat to turn it back on who knows

[river spindle]

fingers crossed they're working on changes for w45 like removal of bank keys and venge trinket etc. 😄 🤞 If they are delaying to make the Annihilation changes for PermaDMM w45, I don't mind waiting a week ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

[granite sphinx]

imma be honest i dont think w45 can be saved lol, dmm and long term game play just dont work that well together i feel like

[river spindle]

We can't know that yet because PermaDMM has had crazy stupid punishing mechanics on death like EXP loss (which forces you to be skilling after dying instead of getting back to PvPing, it is a PvP gamemode after all so shouldn't be forced to skill..) and the bank keys and muling is way too annoying to deal with, which are still not removed.

I think there is a big potential for w45 to become some of the most fun PvP and PvM mashed in one, kinda like what I dreamed PvP worlds could be. But PvP worlds are just people edge-fighting right next to GE or bank because there is no incentive to PvM in PvP world (except for cheaper pots, but then again u can't wear expensive gear so not worth), but in w45 there is boosted exp rates and trinkets that increase PvM power and PvP weapons which is fun to PvM with, and higher purple chances and faster exp rates is just so much nicer for people who mainly want to PvP.

I personally like to PvP and PvM, sometimes both at the same time, so I feel like w45 is the most interesting gamemode. Especially I find the brackets really interesting, everyone being 75cmb in bracket 1, 85cmb bracket 2 and the rest 86+ (120+) in bracket 3. This makes PvP builds really interesting to play with :):)

[wide crater]

I really wish id have been doing pvp when multi revs was a thing. I avoided wildy for years cus i got smacked by framed for 30m once cus i didnt realize edge dungeon was wildy lmao. But as far as getting ppl to actually wanna learn how to pvp i think part of that falls on us. Thats how i learned, i tried to pk at calvarion my very first time and i got smited 😂 dude messaged me and let me come pick up my shit cus he was iron then brought his main and showed me what i was doing wrong. We help people, they help their friends, so on and so forth

[brazen fox]

Ya agree I think most ppl r happy to help others

I also think ppl should ask for help more

I got a lot of help and am happy to pay that forward but am not gonna pm everyone I kill in lms

[minor aspen]

Was looking on YT for 1 tick spec guides, not many, and they are years old and not that great IMO. It'd be really useful if combat dummies worked like real combat so people could practice on them. Maybe there's another alternative I'm not aware of since I haven't thought about this type of stuff in a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quip1AQMVzY
this is a pretty decent one

[brazen fox]

Combat dummy works tbf I think it bugs out and u can’t spec-maul or maul-spec

But for single hits it works fine

[brazen fox]

I think also part of this is vids out there don’t break things down enough

Like getting to 95+% offensive prayers is a couple weeks grind for most newbies

But that’s 30s in a vid

[wide crater]

I didnt even mean lms lol. I wouldn’t message or help ppl that dont fight back either, but if im pking pvmers, or other ppl and i win ill help em, or vice versa if they beat me ill ask them for tips and ive made friends and progressively gotten much better

[brazen fox]

Ye 1000%

Always finding someone better to learn from is key

But that involves not ragequitting when u get DD’d 😂

[clever lintel]

Horrible decision

[fringe fjord]

pvmers when they realize that if you can't dd you also can't freeze log

[ocean kraken]

I can't hear you from the other side of the dead tree I'm hiding behind

[fringe fjord]

can you point at the dead trees on the map

where are you escaping with trees, fucking vetion or mammoths? lmao

[ocean kraken]

Calv, Artio, and Spindel

[fringe fjord]

yeah figured

valid

[ocean kraken]

if we're playing cat & mouse, and I'm the mouse, I'd better have a mouse hole to scurry into lol

[latent relic]

Hopefully they don't just take his advice and run with it.

[brazen fox]

Tbf not totally against something similar being added to PvP arena where ppl learn to 1t their attacks and such

Farming imbue there sucks anyway

Might as well make it more reliable

More thematic too

[velvet pike]

why are there so many thumbs down on the latest pvp announcement, what happened with the event

[brazen fox]

Some ppl got kicked out before the finale started and world was full so couldn’t log back in

Basically they missed out on it bcos only 1 world

So they running it back for ppl who didn’t get to play

Prob gonna be a lot more fun in the second run through anyway if there’s less people

[minor aspen]

The slayer caves are very easy to escape - as long as it’s only 1, maybe 2, pkers. You can spam the crevices, entrance/exits, and there are plenty of cave formations that act as your “dead tree”. Of course it’s multi though so 1v2+ you’re probably cooked

[echo harness]

lots of people didn't get in so they're doing a rerun for them

but the downvotes are probably from people who just want their points transferred to get rewards at their leisure, and the ability to do so is being delayed

[latent relic]

yeah the idea of it being like a delve boss is interesting. Have it be just one boss you fight that gradually gets harder to fight against. I also liked the suggestion Oda mentioned where you can choose to freeze escape to exit with your loot or kill it to move on to the next wave

[glacial gate]

you can freeze log behind tons of corners in the slayer caves you linked there.

[minor aspen]

brother forgot to charge both his glory and his bracelet T_T

[next sequoia]

These caves are so punishing. If you get tb'd, you're stuck face tanking whatever team of players are on you and if you just so happen to make it outside these caves, there's even more multi zone outside. Pvm drops suck in here too

[glacial gate]

And the bots just autotele the moment someone renders on screen to the wilderness player alarm plugin.

[tropic root]

I used to do nothing but PvP in pre-EoC

But I NEVER did Wildy or risk PKing.

Casual PvP for me was Soul Wars, Castle Wars, FoG, and 1v1 fun duels at the duel arena.

I haven't played in a long time, but I enjoyed 2011 soul wars because it was a place I could use any equipment I want as a main and there was always someone I could fight at any level and generally see how strong my account is.

I also loved using minigame hybrid armor. They made already accessible minigames even more accessible because you didn't have to be rich to compete with 2011 Nex armors.

Anyway, Soul Wars was the ultimate casual thing because you also could just slow down on pvping and do some of the other objectives if you wanted.

You can test your spec weapons and there's usually always some other guy who's awake on the enemy team bridding.

---

Anyway, people of this channel, if you're interested in a long read, I'd love to hear thoughts on my old pvp ideas from 3 years ago.

I just got into osrs again so I don't know what's changed since then.

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/ud7x9t/how_to_actually_improve_the_wilderness/

[inner dew]

there is a "rightclick attack clan members" option, idk when that was added

multi areas that fuel smaller skirmishes would be good, more variety of fights will bring more willingness to enter multi areas

i dont think you would want strict rules that prevent hitting certain players in multi, but rather mechanics or design with reducing zergs/massing in mind

i dont like blessed idea, we already have that dynamic because if you attack somebody you get skulled and lose ur 3 items protection

dont need to discourage ppl from fighting anymore than they already are

[west bough]

does anyone have tips on how I could optimize my setup? it's for wildy agility, I'm on lunars with vengeance. the goals are, in order of preference:

1. have pkers hop instead of trying to jump me
2. anti pk if I do get jumped
3. force pkers to run if I can't kill them

I'd rather not increase my risk by too much if I can help it (and if it wasn't obvious I'm not bringing my cashstack out, that's the 150k fee for the dispenser)

[latent relic]

Looks good, don't bring a house tele though just use a charged glory

Personally I'd take a tank set with robe switch to freeze log but this might work better if you can time the venge to KO someone

[wooden basin]

#pvp-discussion message

This is my average anti set for agility

[west bough]

oh yeah the house tele is just for me to change my spellbook. that slot gets replaced by a piece of hard food after my first lap

[west bough]

yeah I considered that too, but I want some practice venge anti-pking so this is what I came up with. might try a freeze setup if I get tired of this

[west bough]

thanks! it looks interesting, I like the lightbearer and the dfs. I might try something like that, maybe with a dragon crossbow as a +1

[wooden basin]

Yeah i think my buddy used dcb over lb but yeah

[west bough]

yeah I'm probably going to upgrade to barrows gloves as well, realized that I risk 1m+ in loot if I'm deep in the laps so might as well

[brazen fox]

Parched infernal, parched def, b gloves, ring of shadows (recoil prob break from skeles), str ammy
+26 str bonus for vw

Obv ur stuck using mage bank as escape

Without tele

[west bough]

the parches are a bit risky for my taste, it'd add 2m+ risk (and I don't have infernal lol). just shadows doesn't give me a max hit, even with str ammy and I take recoil off when no one's on me, but maybe that's a waste of an inventory slot?

[west bough]

oh yeah I should probably take a charged glory just in case lmao

oh wait if I swap to str ammy that wouldn't work

yeah guess it's mage bank

[brazen fox]

Ye check max hits with diff stuff

Recoil is great tbf wouldnt waste an inv slot by unequipping it tho personally

I’d just leave it on

[west bough]

yeah I'd have maybe 2/3 or half a recoil if someone jumps me depending on when it happens, which is okay I guess? could swap to shadows for the other stats but it's pretty minor

[brazen fox]

Ye I’d keep recoil over shadow if no max hit and using veng

[west bough]

gotcha, makes sense

[brazen fox]

U could also drop one karambwan and take seeds in case you get someone low and they dd

Try surprise em with a seed and spec

Or when they catch freeze if their hp is kinda low u can seed and they might run to old tile and u can spec em

[west bough]

oh yeah that's interesting. would give me practice using seeds as well, good idea ty

also, on one hand str ammy gives me a max hit. on the other hand it makes it REALLY obvious that I have a spec weapon in the pocket lol

but I guess most people assume you have a spec weapon anyways

[brazen fox]

Ye if ur fighting back the only question is ags vs vw

[latent relic]

You'll probably be frozen most of the time but an AGS would give you some combo after the specs gone with just the wack.

Voidwaker is guaranteed damage though

[glacial gate]

Vw is best pk wep in game.

[winged thorn]

Dfs is a really good deterrent because of how stinkin tanky it is. Bowfa/crystal the same just instead of def its dps. I’d personally go with the dfs setup

You guys own

[west bough]

interesting, ty for the input! I'll probably try the DFS setup at some point and see what I end up preferring

[minor aspen]

4 restores seems low ratio for 10 brews. Mathematically it works out but in my head it doesn’t 🤔

[minor aspen]

Could be interesting, team play type ideas being encouraged is good

[wooden basin]

For pvm you can use 4 brews: 1 restore but that leaves 0 room for extra prayer if needed