pvp-discussion

[odd dock]

I'll probably use my dhide

[covert musk]

U’d be walking around g.e with full nex in no time 😆

[odd dock]

idk what a nex is

but I really want a gilded set

and be a pimp

looking sharp

[wooden basin]

@winged thorn itd be cool if someone made a chart of the wildy ecosystem so that when people say its just pkers hunting pvmers, you can just post an image that explains all of it

[covert musk]

Is that the incentive coming from anti pvp?

LOL

[fringe fjord]

it would be depressing because the current ecosystem is like 70% bots then 20% people picking on those bots

then 10% people picking on the people picking on bots

[odd dock]

what's the 5%

[wooden basin]

Yeah but it beats constantly explaining it to ignorant people

[brazen fox]

Zerk meta these days is 50 def

[fringe fjord]

i think people know that the wilderness is a botted gold funnel

[brazen fox]

Range tank is always an option too but it’s not great for pvm

[fringe fjord]

range tanks are fine for pvm

[brazen fox]

Yh unless u need to melee

[fringe fjord]

yeah but there's lots of content where ranged is bis like doom

[fast cradle]

just train range/mage @odd dock

ezpz

[odd dock]

I don't like using magic

[fast cradle]

comes in handy

[odd dock]

I want to do range instead

[fringe fjord]

you mostly use magic for thralls and death charge late game

[odd dock]

it'd be really nice if there's a plug in that changes bows into guns

[fast cradle]

defo

[covert musk]

😆

[fast cradle]

pop pop pop

[covert musk]

Driveby’s

[odd dock]

not such a bad idea huh

[low mesa]

All very true and I was hoping someone picked up on it

[covert musk]

Actually not

[fringe fjord]

i used to play a game that had gunblades

[odd dock]

bows retextured into guns

pew pew pew

pew..

pew

💥

[covert musk]

Arrows becomes caliber for guns

😆

[odd dock]

retextured the arrows to look like bullets

[brazen fox]

Magic is incredibly strong

Worth learning to use it effectively

[odd dock]

not when you start embracing nukes

mana?

no mana.

use nukes

[brazen fox]

Never getting 25 kill streak without magic tho

[odd dock]

nah bro

nukes get

25,000

kill streak

easily including buildings

[covert musk]

Ayo?

[fast cradle]

lol

[fringe fjord]

blowpipe spec

they design most of the modern bosses in a way that you're technically able to avoid all damage besides chip damage magic is mostly for mid game content

[fringe fjord]

anyone actively f2p pk here?

[covert musk]

Ik a few yes

[fringe fjord]

how active is it lately i haven't been there in a while

hard to get new players into it despite it being low barrier because nobody knows everyone is at ferox

[covert musk]

V active

[fringe fjord]

define very active

i have friends from f2p but none of them are actively playing anymore

[covert musk]

check out ferox 308

[fringe fjord]

i am mid delve otherwise i would've done so but i will check later

[covert musk]

Defo, I like what Im seeing there

glory hill, north revs pk hot aswell

[jade ledge]

Its mostly singles, maybe you can randomly see people in deep wildy

[fringe fjord]

i only pvp i don't multi pk so singles is fine

[minor aspen]

they should make multi revs f2p

it'd take people so long to kill them with rune scims lol

[fringe fjord]

this message was brought to you by

[minor aspen]

who's pking callisto rn

[low mesa]

I recommend everyone join a multi clan no matter how cringe they are haha

[covert musk]

Whats so cringe about being in a multi clan?

[rustic apex]

having friends

[rustic apex]

is that bob?! my OG right there you noobs wouldnt understand

[granite sphinx]

multi just not for me man i cba spam regearing lol

(dont even make me mention escape caves)

[rustic apex]

Multi imo is best for begginers

[granite sphinx]

oh for sure

[rustic apex]

great entry into the pvp scene

if you already know how to pk well solo is more fun because NHing is great

[granite sphinx]

there isnt really anywhere to learn that currently in multi but i do agree thats the best spot to learn

(now that theres no real singles)

[low mesa]

Yes. Anyone who is competent eventually beings to solo and make real money

[rustic apex]

pretty much

[low mesa]

I find it odd people exclusively multi pk for years and years but say they do it for gp when you get scraps…

[rustic apex]

still, we need new blood or solo pkers will have no one to compete with

[low mesa]

Might get lucky once a week

[covert musk]

Well for some it really aint about the gp

[low mesa]

I just start playing and I figured this out in about 2 weeks

[rustic apex]

hahah fk no, i enjoy multi pk because its my roots and what got me into pvp but by no means was I ever making any gp xD

[granite sphinx]

singles didnt used to be about the GP either, now it is since jagex decided to kill friendship 🙁

[covert musk]

Warring against other clans with matched Numbers etc, its a completely different ballgame compared to singles

U Can be a good singles pker but absolute dogfo in multi if u dunno what ur doing

[fringe fjord]

most multi pkers are literally terrible in singles though

[granite sphinx]

u can just @ me man i know i dont belong in multi

[covert musk]

Likewise goes the other way around so whats ur point?

[rustic apex]

ya having friends is yucky, i prefer my one life account where I solo raid and trade with no one because im better than you

[fringe fjord]

it's not likewise

[covert musk]

Lmao kk

[fringe fjord]

multi requires very little skill beyond ganking lower levels that's why it's entry mode

[granite sphinx]

and anyone who doesnt feel the same is CRINGE and a psychopathj

[rustic apex]

mostly because all you have to do is listen to your shot caller. its still mad fun though. I used to play other MMO's with pvp where it was the same concept. I wont name them tho its shameful

[covert musk]

What skill according to you is required in multi then

[fringe fjord]

have eyes and ears.

[rustic apex]

click on the name your told to

[fringe fjord]

click name, move.

[granite sphinx]

eyes ears, knowing when to pneck camp knowing which directions to move lol

[granite sphinx]

finding said name in a pile of 400 people

[rustic apex]

i miss the days when the homies all rocked the clan tag in the name

[fringe fjord]

regearing in salads within 5 seconds and returning to the battlefield to spam cyan: brb toilet

[covert musk]

Good days

[granite sphinx]

yup thats where i fall off, after the 2nd death i just cba anymore lol

[fringe fjord]

i would argue it's not even good for beginners even if it's mechanically simple

[rustic apex]

nah because it breaks the barrier to entry

[granite sphinx]

it isnt good for learning singles pking really na

[rustic apex]

removes the fear factor people have of the wildy

its like the incetive to learn pking comes along after

but thats on an idivudual level

[fringe fjord]

'i just want to multi pk with some friends' nowadays you just get scouted by one of the bots and then a clan of 30 logs in and maces you.

[covert musk]

LOL

[winged thorn]

Multi clans setup fights regularly

[fringe fjord]

doesnt actually happen much in multi and when it does they're just killing bots

[covert musk]

No idea what this lad is talking about rn

[winged thorn]

I sent you evidence of this yesterday

Oh well i guess

[fringe fjord]

the rot rag wars you send me sure looked promising

[covert musk]

Bots or getting scouted and maced

Thats it

LOL

[fringe fjord]

you also send me a video of the same clan using those scout bots to mace smaller teams

because multi isn't actually great for small teams anymore

[covert musk]

Says who

[rustic apex]

would be interesting to see something like "Seige wars" where you fight over territory to incentivize multi fights among clans.

it would be the only way their idea of a timer on re entry into wilderness would make sense

in different regions to for different combat brackets

[fringe fjord]

what do you win once you seize it.

[rustic apex]

im not shooting a pitch here but other mmo's have done this for pvp in the past. just suprised osrs never caught on

[fringe fjord]

it has, it ended up with clans seizing certain worlds and then enabling bot farms in them

at multi revs.

[rustic apex]

youre not on the same page as I am here

If youve played other mmo's typically incentive isnt control over the area its raw gp and cosmetics

[fringe fjord]

if you don't gain anything once you have control, then why would you do it?

[winged thorn]

It was an hour long fight and everyone was in gear lol

[rustic apex]

You could do something like temporary cosmetics while you hold the winning title for the week before war starts again the next week

[fringe fjord]

if you gain raw gp and cosmetics from it, then the same thing that happened last time will happen.

if said cosmetics are tradeable at least

if they are not tradeable and don't offer any sort of upgrade, then there's not many people that are going to do it for the glory of it

[rustic apex]

If you ask me i think pvp gear would be a good reward space. stuff like dmm's reward space with proper balancing ofc

[fringe fjord]

the issue is, if you have specific pvp armours that work in the wilderness, those armours can be used on everyone.

the wilderness isn't just pvpers.

most of the playerbase only goes there for pvm, they don't want to give them more powerful armour to be used on them

[rustic apex]

we dont have gear sets catering to unique pvp builds. would be dope to see something like that that isnt just "mid game" content

[fringe fjord]

we do have those

they're in bh and cannot be used outside of bh.

there are no pvmers in bh, hence why this was possible

[rustic apex]

right but im not saying it would have to be exclusive to pvp can be though

[fringe fjord]

if bis gear comes from pvp that can be used outside of pvp that's certainly not going to pass a poll either because most of the playerbase doesn't want to feel like they're being forced into pvp for it.

[rustic apex]

also dont take me too seriously homie im just rambling bs off the top of my head

[fringe fjord]

i know.

i am just giving you the general response this would have

[rustic apex]

just idealizing what id love to see from the wilderness

[iron thistle]

I get that, as long as PvP gear is more expensive or have a higher cost to use outside PvP (ie: PvP gear can't be better than Torva or something)

[fringe fjord]

seems like a lot of things you'd like to see in the wilderness are things that are in bh.

[rustic apex]

no way especially if the requirement is like 40 def

[fringe fjord]

you have 20 defence armour in bh

and downgraded versions or upgraded versions of weapons

i.e an anchor for 50 attack instead of 60

or an upgraded dark bow.

[rustic apex]

would be cool to see like barrows gear with cool pvp effects that effective anywhere but not cost effecient for pve and lower def reqs

[fringe fjord]

you can get these kinds of updates to pass easier in pvp worlds or bh because there are no pvmers so they don't need to partake in the poll for it

for wilderness updates, it has to be formulated in a manner that passes a poll that people that do not pk engage with.

because it doesn't just affect pvp.

[rustic apex]

Also the only reason i dont grind bh gear is because i cant use it in the wildy. otherwise i would have all of it not just the cosmetics

[iron thistle]

Yep, which is why it can't be stronger than its PvE equivalent (ie: no 80 def PvP beating Torva, or 40 def gear beating currently available 40 def PvE gear), and still usable in PvE.

[fringe fjord]

the current bis ranged gear is 30 defence though, masori only gains defence if you fortify it

still has all the offensive bonuses

[rustic apex]

wouldve been cool to see a 30 def variant of the new slash armor

we have the crush variant

[fringe fjord]

inq is also 30 def but it's crush

and crush is generally underpowered

[winged thorn]

they should just dump the BH armor into wild

Let me use my VLS in multi

[rustic apex]

would go hard but Kalds perspective is on point. people would cry about the impact it has on non pvpers

[winged thorn]

Do you think we should cater PvP content to non PvP enjoyers

I agree it “won’t pass polls”

[rustic apex]

ofc not

[winged thorn]

Ok?

[rustic apex]

but lets be real

"wont pass polls" xD

[winged thorn]

True

[rustic apex]

how do we shift that mindset of the playerbase though

i think dmm is doing a decent job at it tbh

more people whove never pked are loving it now than ever

[winged thorn]

That seems impossible

They have to dip their toes in & have fun

[rustic apex]

i dont like that mindset

[fringe fjord]

the mindset of thinking that they're just going to add new features to the wilderness without poll isn't going to get you anywhere because the wilderness isn't just pvpers

it works for pvp worlds or bh

[winged thorn]

Yeah I don’t I actually think that way

[fringe fjord]

but it doesnt work for the wilderness

[winged thorn]

Because polls for wildy

Aren’t a thin already

:p

[fringe fjord]

they poll additions not subtractions

[winged thorn]

It’s moreso, why cater PvP to people who don’t PvP

[fringe fjord]

because it affects non pvp people, other pvp settings do not.

[rustic apex]

im telling yall, official accounts builds 🙂
even if people dont pvp if they have a pure with a neat little badge next to their name you think theyll say no to getting chivlary? 😄

[fringe fjord]

they polled this and it failed horribly

[winged thorn]

In my brain, with this kind of thinking, wouldn’t that mean we should get rid of every single pker advantage

Like ancients?

Specs?

[rustic apex]

im aware

but it failed by like 2% they just didnt do it right

[fringe fjord]

getting rid of ancients would make the wilderness worse for pvmers since the best way to escape is freeze logging

[rustic apex]

said something about re doing it properly and never did

[winged thorn]

I appreciate you telling me about the wilderness lol

[granite sphinx]

"failed horribly" is a crazy take on what happened lmao

[rustic apex]

barely failed

[fringe fjord]

i dont remember the poll outcome

let me check

[rustic apex]

it was like 2%

[winged thorn]

It failed horribly

L00p

[granite sphinx]

so why say "failed horribly" when it did not whatsoever fail horribly

[winged thorn]

l00l

I respect your for admitting your wrong

First time doing so in 2 days

[fringe fjord]

back then it was 75% I believe

[granite sphinx]

"failed horribly" and over 2/3 people voted yes...

i cba man lol

[rustic apex]

tell me that wouldnt be a crazy good incentive for pvp related polls to have higher chances of passing if players had pvp builds

[winged thorn]

Not good enough dude clearly lol

[fringe fjord]

true

[granite sphinx]

bro the screeching of NOBODY WANTS THIS and then its always a majority voting yes

is so tiresome

[winged thorn]

Bro is screeching multi is just rags so tiresome

Agree

[fringe fjord]

multi is usually just rags

[granite sphinx]

ehh 2 raggy 4 me, but i see why ppl enjoy it still

[winged thorn]

I hate to use some pvm Andy’s argument for his 99 rc. But doesn’t this “devalue” everyone else who made a pk acc from scratch

[granite sphinx]

like back in real singles, my pure set was risking more than most "max" main multi sets currently lol

and id get RKO'd by meds regularly

[rustic apex]

no the polls allowed people who had builds just opt into it

[fringe fjord]

i believe they had an opt in system for people who had existing accounts

[rustic apex]

theres no integrity breach unlike with ironman

so if you meet the builds reqs you could just opt into it

[winged thorn]

I’m confused “who had builds”?

Is this a topic?

[fringe fjord]

also the poll might've failed because it allowed skillers for example to train slayer normally.

[winged thorn]

Mind linking?

[rustic apex]

accounts builds

[fringe fjord]

i.e they could cannon

[rustic apex]

wdym

yea pretty much,

something along the lines of exp lamps and such too

[winged thorn]

I guess I just need to look at the Jagex post about this?

I’m confused as heck

[rustic apex]

like it was weird how they went about it

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/the-future-of-official-account-builds?oldschool=1

[granite sphinx]

i will say their proposal probably could have been adjusted, but failing my 3% and them totally abandoning the idea, rather than tweaking it

is just so weird lol

[fringe fjord]

was it not 75% back then to get something to pass

[granite sphinx]

does it matter? its 70% now

[fringe fjord]

i.e you could make that argument to re-do it now

[rustic apex]

10 hp builds was the most controversial ones that crowd didnt want this at all

[fringe fjord]

skillers were also controversial

they scrapped the 10 hp accounts

[granite sphinx]

idk their just total abandonment of the idea tells me kinda where they stand on PvP stuff, they just really dont care much other than throwing manked's passion time at it and calling it a day

[rustic apex]

i made a suggestion thread on this a while back and it was the most backlash i got when my thread had nothing to do with that just pvp builds

[fringe fjord]

but people might've not read the update when it was polled

you could probably make a game suggestion in this discord for a re-poll of it and we could vote for it

it won't work on reddit

[rustic apex]

it was on discord, i dont touch reddit.

most of the disagreement was, it already failed, and its already official you dont need badges. like badges are what made niche ironmen so popular.

people love to flex

[fringe fjord]

nobody needs a pure badge

[rustic apex]

ofc not

still cool though

ironmen dont need them either but i doubt it wouldve popped off if they didnt have that to flex their legitmacy. but sure you can just look people up and see their stats

[winged thorn]

So what just an in game guide on how to build your pk acc?

[winged thorn]

It doesn’t seem like it’s an alternate account or anything

Yeah & then it’s just slop about xp & quests & bull shit lol

[fringe fjord]

accounts that were already made before it could opt in if they met the requirements

[winged thorn]

How does this incentivize a noob to pk?

[rustic apex]

essentially, pretty sure it wouldve come with a specific account badge though

not even that, just to make the account

[fringe fjord]

barely since you can just block styles with runelite

just qol for pures so they can shit like fairy rings mostly

[granite sphinx]

didnt used to be able to 😭 i'd know

[winged thorn]

Ahh ok I must’ve missed

[rustic apex]

regardless if you make a pure to pvm or pk with. you think if more casuals built pures to pvm with for the challange that chivalry wouldve failed?

[winged thorn]

That’s a fair argument

[rustic apex]

maybe, but still better odds

like thats my whole point of thinking it wouldve been great for the pvp scenes polling dilema

[winged thorn]

Yeah it just took me a bit to get there my bad l0l

Didn’t understand the acc build stuff

[fringe fjord]

before that we used exilent until it got banned 🥺

[rustic apex]

no clue what that is tbh

[winged thorn]

You call me a cheater yet use Exilent?

[fringe fjord]

back then it was legal

[rustic apex]

is he talking about a client?

[winged thorn]

Still is technically

[winged thorn]

Ye

[rustic apex]

i heard about people using clients like this to tob and when it became bannable all of 416 was in shambles because they were terrible

[fringe fjord]

it didn't automate anything but it made a lot of stuff easier in pvp

[granite sphinx]

nothing against u, but like this is what always rubs me the wrong way, when people tell me "well XYZ cheat client used to hide unwanted xp styles before RL shoulda used that" its like well sorry man i didnt want to cheat lol

[winged thorn]

The best feature’s Exilent had were:

• build in recorder
• it only highlighted targets you were able to hit in PvP

[covert musk]

Its all g when it suits them

[fringe fjord]

it was legal at the time

[granite sphinx]

theres a reason i still play my 3 def account, rather than bot a new pure to full max

its cuz i value what i do in the game lol

[fringe fjord]

to be fair 1 defence sucks nowadays anyway

[winged thorn]

It’s always been stinky

[rustic apex]

imagine paying someone to play the game for you xD

[covert musk]

Im a 40 def pure I agree

[granite sphinx]

ok then pray, tell me, what is the problem with allowing someone to go from 3 def, to 1 def

[rustic apex]

essentially what botting is to me i dont understand it

[fringe fjord]

no issue with that

[granite sphinx]

because ive been told id ruin the game

for everyone

[fringe fjord]

i voted yes for the negative xp lamps they polled at some point as reward from bh i believe

[rustic apex]

negative exp lamps were also polled once upon a time

[fringe fjord]

or was it the pvp arena

[rustic apex]

sad day for the 2 def pures

[granite sphinx]

it was literally a closer poll, than the pure man mode

PAIN

[rustic apex]

its literally just to spite pures lmfao

[granite sphinx]

yeah

[rustic apex]

no other reason can be given

[fringe fjord]

they kept making the argument that 'iT WoulD mAke The GamE LooK LikE A pri|VAte seRver'

[rustic apex]

theyre masking their hate

[fringe fjord]

ignoring the fact that private servers are more popular for pvp than the main game rn

[winged thorn]

Game already is a p server

[granite sphinx]

exactly, and the fact that jagex didnt have the cajones to just push it thru is abysmal, told me everything i need to know about their stance on pvp going forward

[charred thistle]

Meanwhile cow boss with cow cosmetics and weapons

[winged thorn]

SRA is p server gear

[rustic apex]

cow boss new hardest pvm encounter btw no cap

[fringe fjord]

bounty hunter is already close to a private server none of the rewards even work outside of it

[charred thistle]

None of the BH stuff is in the clog so redditors don't know they exist, if it was in the clog you know they would be pushing for BH to be removed

[covert musk]

Man I miss my steel titan..

[fringe fjord]

i miss summoning tanks

[winged thorn]

BH armor isn’t even in the skill guide 🤣

[granite sphinx]

yeah this is a really really big fail on jagex end for sure

[winged thorn]

“What def lvl do I need to wear morrigans?”

“Oh I can’t check the skill guide that has every single other piece of armor”

Gg

[charred thistle]

Hopefully the skill guide update will contain everything unironically

[granite sphinx]

"i want to complete the ENTIRE game" - involves pvp "WOAH i dont wanna do that part!!!"

[charred thistle]

why yes I want to play with an ironman where I have to interact with every part of the game - BUT NOT PvP 😭

[rustic apex]

i never even considered this. still dont know if any of the bh armor is usable on my zerker. I only ever did bh for fancy cosmetics

My fighter torso now matches my inq so im happy

wish my zerker helm had one too

[fringe fjord]

it is

20 def 78 def

[granite sphinx]

i mean its just so lame, theyve catered to those types for so long

we cant hope theyll do otherwise

[winged thorn]

Might as well go 50

[fringe fjord]

not sure why they made oathplate 78 instead of 80 or 75

or morrigans 78 for that matter

[winged thorn]

They love to fuck with meta’s

I don’t even think they know it happens

[rustic apex]

couldve made oathplate 30 with a fortified set

🙂

[fringe fjord]

or the amoxliatl weapons 55 attack

they are good but not good enough to level attack 5 times

[winged thorn]

That’s for an Ironman

[rustic apex]

give justi some love tbh let people fortify inq with it

[fringe fjord]

doesnt beat a granite hammer and a dragon defender

[winged thorn]

That’s low tier slop for iron dad 72 who has 4 kids & can only pay 1 day a week

Most the game being filled with it

[fringe fjord]

i wouldve been able to use the amoxliatl weapons on my account if it werent for this

[winged thorn]

Not saying we shouldn’t cater to them

But that’s kinda all we cater too it seems 😒

[fringe fjord]

the upgrade doesnt make sense once you consider its 2h and you can wear a defender with a granite hammer and have the same strength bonus

[rustic apex]

are we talking about the boppers?

dual wielding weapons is such a cool concept id love to see a set for end game

[winged thorn]

Idk man

It’s so overplayed in the last like 4 years lol

[rustic apex]

yea but who uses them

[winged thorn]

Glacial tamales

[rustic apex]

bopsicles

[fringe fjord]

iron men in the moon stuff

[winged thorn]

The sand ninja ones

The mud ninja ones

Torah’s

Just zzzzzz

[rustic apex]

again, who uses them ? xD

[winged thorn]

Low tier iron slop

[fringe fjord]

mid level iron slop

[winged thorn]

Lvl 55 atk glacial tamale

Mid lvl??

[granite sphinx]

thats as low lvl as it gets lol

[winged thorn]

I’m so confused

[fringe fjord]

yeah they do moons of peril with them

[granite sphinx]

u do like 3 quests and ur 55 atk

[fringe fjord]

thats mid game

[winged thorn]

If that’s end game, what’s your acc look like?

[fringe fjord]

all quests in the game get you to 51 acktually

[winged thorn]

Moons is mid game

But 55 atk

[fringe fjord]

is it not?

[winged thorn]

Lol

100k xp in a skill= mid game

I don’t disagree that end game dual wields would be sick but like give me 2 years or somet man

[fringe fjord]

mid game as in they are used in mid game because by the time you've got them you're roughly there

[winged thorn]

They dumped like 5 dual wield weapons in the last year lmao

[fringe fjord]

its the same issue as chivalry

[rustic apex]

theyre not usable though.

theyre memes

[fringe fjord]

once you unlock it you're so close to piety its pointless

[rustic apex]

Give me some sick daggers for end game that are like the bp's melee equivalent

[winged thorn]

I don’t think an end game dual wield will replace avernic + x though

Idk I could be wrong

[rustic apex]

ofc not everything new has its niche nowadays

[winged thorn]

Yea fair fair

I agree that the dual wields are also pretty niche already

[fringe fjord]

it will have more niches because flat armour is a new concept in the game

[rustic apex]

would make decent pvp weapons too

[fringe fjord]

they arent good enough for that sadly

not good enough to go from 50 to 55

[winged thorn]

Would be funny lmfao

[rustic apex]

not talking about the useless boppers

[fringe fjord]

oh

[rustic apex]

talking about the possibilities of new ones coming in that are end game

[winged thorn]

You know what

I got an endgame dual wield to propose

[rustic apex]

i dont think its far fetched to assume it might happen

pitch me a sick spec too

[covert musk]

Bolas

[rustic apex]

XD

[fringe fjord]

too op so it has a 15% chance of logging you out from the game upon activation

[rustic apex]

didnt that fail horribly because OH NO PVPERS WILL ABUSE

[covert musk]

Yup..

[fringe fjord]

or randomly gives you defence xp

[rustic apex]

stop

thats blasphemy

[winged thorn]

My end hame dual wields

You’ll see a post soon

Pls upvote

[covert musk]

Im a 40 def pure, dont care

[rustic apex]

what will you call them? AKIMBO?

[wooden basin]

We also could use some flashbangs to spam at others in escape caves ;p

[winged thorn]

ROTGLOCK9000

Very old school name if you ask me as well

[winged thorn]

Good news is I’m 99!

[wooden basin]

•••whatshisface is typing....

[fringe fjord]

how is reddit so bad at getting dmm points

i have like 90k almost

[rustic apex]

probably dying while chopping tree or something idk

[fringe fjord]

ive done nothing besides barrage jellies for clues and shoot msb dhides at breach

[winged thorn]

Bro

[rustic apex]

i died to meatball so many times bro is sad

after i laugh at everyone who dies before me

[winged thorn]

I just saw someone refer to a maxer that fights someone not in max (both there for PvP) as predator vs prey still & must be changed

Time for a new game

[rustic apex]

bro that game youre looking for doesnt exist. Pvp mmo's are korean based and they suck

[winged thorn]

Manked is our only hope

[minor aspen]

diablo 2R just released warlock patch 👀

30th year anniversary

[rustic apex]

he could put tons of effort into making something just for people to vote no though

[minor aspen]

i played the crap out of that game when they re-released it

[rustic apex]

I have a lot to say about blizzard but that would get me kicked from the discord

[winged thorn]

Feel bad for the guy

[halcyon kraken]

They’re also making it to where you can enable /players 8 in your own private lobbies

[rustic apex]

was he the one that made the wildy wyrm pitch?

[fringe fjord]

yes

[winged thorn]

Yep l0l

[rustic apex]

so sad bro

[winged thorn]

0 for 2

😭

He got railed for the last one too online

Getting railed now again

Genuinely feel for him

[rustic apex]

imagine why he'd have 0 motivation

and why the pitch feels "half baked"

[fringe fjord]

is the poll result out yet

[winged thorn]

It’s not even like he can get to the point of having a discussion with the playerbase

[winged thorn]

Idk

[rustic apex]

isnt it just a game jam idea

are they polling it already??

[fringe fjord]

there is a poll

yeah

[rustic apex]

oh

[minor aspen]

interesting, that sounds fun

don't have to work so hard to get lobbies going

[winged thorn]

The poll is “would you vote yes on this if we polled it”

It’s a poll for a poll

A meeting for a meeting

Good to know Jagex works like corporate America in that regard

[granite plume]

More of a "should we keep working on this"

[fringe fjord]

would probably be better if they made zones with higher loot for pvp worlds rather than the wilderness

they dont have to poll pvp world shit to non pvpers

[winged thorn]

I wonder if they even get to that point after being inundated by “remove PvP, remove uniques, remove wilderness!!!”

[granite plume]

No idea what the thought process is sometimes at jagex hq

[winged thorn]

No clue but say a prayer for manked, poor guy

[granite plume]

I'd rather they try and do things for pvp then ignore and strip content away

[wooden basin]

Y u downvote my suggestion then

[granite plume]

Cause I wouldn't be able to vote on pvp when I have engaged in pvp

[wooden basin]

I technically wouldnt either tbh

Id be able to vote more on pvm stuff

But id take my crew out more if i knew it had an impact on what we can vote for

[granite plume]

I'm all for the right people voting for things that apply to them but cutting out a segment of people that do engage with the content because of a game mode restriction is a thumbs down for me

[wooden basin]

I know you're a goated iron though :p

Idk maybe it could use tweaks i just threw something out there

[granite plume]

Ask for feedback on things and you'll get more than a thumbs up thumbs down

It's why I say "let me know your thoughts" for mine

[rustic apex]

My favorite screenshot from when I used to browse reddit regarding pvp polls
This is what it feels the majority of it is like

[winged thorn]

😭

[halcyon kraken]

Looks like trump plays OSRS with that dialogue

[rustic apex]

its literally just reddit in a nutshell

[covert musk]

Noobs

[rustic apex]

a lot of anger behind it

those spades mean a lot to them yall stop pking the skilled pvmers or manked's work doesnt stand a chance in the polls.

[winged thorn]

Also am working on this rn

[rustic apex]

that seems like an undertaking what's involved in accomplishing this?

[winged thorn]

Starts with @minor aspen ‘s lovely image he used for his Reddit post

[rustic apex]

ahh

[winged thorn]

My only issue is

The graphic will be lovely, but irons are gonna be big mad when I refer to them as grass

[covert musk]

XD

[rustic apex]

theyre not though, the grass is the envoirnment and npcs

[winged thorn]

Ironman the grasshopper

[rustic apex]

ironmen would be the grasshoppers

[winged thorn]

Omggg

Adorable

I wanna be an iron now

[rustic apex]

what about the mouse? is that ROT?

[winged thorn]

I was gonna put “clans” as the hawk as they are the biggest fish in wildy

It’s gonna be complicated but hopefully it’ll make sense

The snake will be like smaller teams

[rustic apex]

aye makes sense

[winged thorn]

Almost need an image with less animals so it’s not so cluttered

I’ll see if there is a better one for this exercise

[wooden basin]

My goat

[lapis birch]

i mean this kind of proves anti-pkers point

that the top is just extracting things from the bottom

and it really isn't a competitive space

and the only way this can exist if jagex puts pvm bait in the wilderness

[fringe fjord]

they individually get farmed outside of the wilderness because they suck at 1vs1 tho

[winged thorn]

because thats how the wilderness works!

that's how it has always drawn people there, is bait

whether it was rune rocks in classic

[lapis birch]

so why would anyone want that exist if i am solo

like a ironman

[winged thorn]

well thats where the balance would have to come in

it HAS to be worth it for YOU

[lapis birch]

if i am solo therefore i am subject to be farmed

why would anyone vote for it

[granite sphinx]

pvmers literally voted to break the entire chain, and keep themselves as the producers at the bottom to get eaten by pkers lol

pkers are pretty much solely at the top now, and pvmers at the bottom, pkers are no longer food to be eaten ever cuz u can just freeze log

you can thank everyone who voted yes to singles+ for that, if you're ever wondering why you're getting clobbered as a pvmer by a guy in max lol

[winged thorn]

the reward would have to be great enough for your time. i dont think a couple hours at zombie pirates, even with a diary done atm, is worth your time

[fringe fjord]

anti pkers are the top predators in the wilderness because they're the only ones pking pkers because they dont pk eachother

🧠

[winged thorn]

fighting the singles versions of the wildy bosses is not worth anyones time unless its strictly for better odds at a pet

like the loot is trash for something like that

[granite sphinx]

alternatively, i'm the one hunting anti pkers and skull tricking them because they think they have the upper hand, so I am the top dog

[winged thorn]

its a waste of your time as a pvmer

the wildy is flawed where it is no longer worth the risk

5 years ago? revs was best money maker

[lapis birch]

so wilderness isn't meant to be skill based

[granite sphinx]

prob doesnt even crack top 10 now huh

[lapis birch]

more just whatever happens -- happens

[fringe fjord]

vorkath at 80 ranged is better money than the wilderness

hell zulrah probably is

been 11 years

[winged thorn]

i mean thats plausible

[fringe fjord]

the dragon bones are like 25k rn

i remember them being 10k

[granite sphinx]

i mean that was mostly just due to bots wildin out and not being banned whatsoever

gotta get them quarterly metrics

[fringe fjord]

if you're max level you're better off doing shit outside of the wilderness

[winged thorn]

thats my point, they need to make it worth peoples time

[fringe fjord]

but if you're not max in the wilderness you get harassed by max levels anyway and have a major disadvantage

[winged thorn]

and figure out how to deal with the bots

[fringe fjord]

only way to not deal with fighting people who are 30 combats higher is to be 126 yourself

[winged thorn]

like rn if multi revs gets approved, its not really worth a "real players" time

im sure there would be teams in there dicking around

but if im solobboy12 why would i go multi cave

[fringe fjord]

is that your of account

[winged thorn]

dont report

[granite sphinx]

because rot ragged 450 worlds in singles, and made it unplayable unless u paid them 14b to free farm in multi

[winged thorn]

ughhh

[granite sphinx]

its just unbelievable to me that people actually think that lmfao

[covert musk]

U are absolutely correct

Open vending machine

[lapis birch]

that doesn't really fix the dead wilderness tho lol

[granite sphinx]

it sorta does, gotta remove the pj timer so pkers can actually h it each other tho

[lapis birch]

just throwing more bait isn't going make people go i to the wilderness

[granite sphinx]

then we actually have pker v pker interactions

[lapis birch]

and like you said in a heavily botted game

it's just bots farming then mains buy on g.e

so you really are just killing a ironman for snakeskin

or some black d hide

[granite sphinx]

i mean they cant attack other pkers, so who are they supposed to hit? lol

[winged thorn]

i mean it doesnt immediately fix the problem no. but it makes it an option? is me going to calvarion a viable play when i could do anything else outside of the wildy for more coin? no. so lets start there at the minimum

[sullen flame]

I've heard of some players getting banned via killing bots and getting mass reported by the Bot Farmers. Possible Idea here. Is it possible for Jagex to set up a net to flag mass reports, compare stats/boss logs via an automated analysis and then send the bans back the other way. Basically running some bans via abused reporting and linking the accounts that way?

If a player mod is around I'm curious if this has come up as an automated ban idea.

[open grove]

the mass reports really never stick

and only have happened to streamers

[sullen flame]

I get that but this would be pulling a 180 on bot farmers accounts

And its programable

[open grove]

it's a conspiracy but people who reported on the story were paid by botters

because the fear stopped people from killing bots for a while

even though it wasn't true

[sullen flame]

True but that doesnt affect this in the slightest

[winged thorn]

i never stopped

[lapis birch]

well if ragging wasn't a thing then i think could help

like in dmm certain parts are blocked unless you have a certain risk

[winged thorn]

idk how correlated?

not diagreeing

[open grove]

just with how rare mass reports are the system would be set up to catch maybe 2 farms total

before they stop doing it

[winged thorn]

just not following

[granite sphinx]

can confirm, this doesnt stop anything

every1 just uses runepouch notes which are 5k value, but 5m on ge

[open grove]

that's just a dmm issue

[lapis birch]

if everyone had a certain risk then it would make the fight mutually beneficial

[open grove]

because it's fucked

[lapis birch]

ironman still get shafted tho

but it's whatever

[granite sphinx]

but who cares about ironmen if we're bein real

[winged thorn]

but then we are "forcing" pvmers to risk more in an area they dont rly get rewarded for that well already

[sullen flame]

Think big picture. Players aren't afraid of being false banned pking botting groups

[open grove]

maingame items wouldnt be so off (aside from new updates, shoutout to yama ruining bh)

players will always be afraid because social media controls them

reddit/behemeth/kempq/sirpugger just cause so much panic and fear

i sometimes still hear people talking about wildycctv despite it having only been functional for a week

[granite sphinx]

i heard someone unironically complaining about it yesterday and it made me literally laugh out loud

[open grove]

😭

[lapis birch]

pvmer gets rewarded in faster progression and loot

risk gate would just reduce the low risk ragging

someone in blood bark chasing you down with no real risk

[granite sphinx]

i mean if we're being real bloodbark risk is like more than 99% of pvmer risk lol

[winged thorn]

its so funny to me pvmers think of mystics, dhides, and bloodbark as rag!

bloodbark is heckin MAX

😋

well - for multi

[lapis birch]

i think deadman mode is like what the wilderness should be

[winged thorn]

get ahrims down to 600k for top & bottom

& it will be

[lapis birch]

with some tweaks

[winged thorn]

but then its just bloodbark

[lapis birch]

player risk should be shown

areas should be blocked by risk

[winged thorn]

thats an interesting idea, but i think theres always loopholes

[open grove]

yeah but the only way to fix that is a total ge rework

i wouldnt mind that tbf

[covert musk]

Equipment check

[lapis birch]

yea loopholes can be patched tho

[covert musk]

Man I cant wait to pk some ironmen and pvmers today

[granite sphinx]

with pvp it takes literally years for jagex to do anything lol

so idk if id wanna bank on that

[winged thorn]

with our luck, whatever it was that needed patching, the entire piece of content would get smoked 😭

[rustic apex]

Tbh i think what theyre doing with dmm is like testing grounds for what could be possible within the pvp space and I agree with this take 100%

[brazen fox]

Yes

[brazen fox]

Not rly necessary imo

But I like the other idea

[winged thorn]

they're just the bh skulls right? i think they'd need to make it more clear who is skulled, rather than a hint of yellow in the eyes lol

[granite sphinx]

yea dmm is horrific for seeing if sum1 is skulled lol

[rustic apex]

So like only show risk if someone IS skulled

[brazen fox]

Yh but rarely is someone in snakeskin with Virtus switch so who cares

[rustic apex]

coins need not be present, can show risk by changing the color of the skull itself

[lapis birch]

i also think a lot of the wilderness content could be removed or put underground

like do we really need a agility course

[rustic apex]

elaborate

[granite sphinx]

i fail to see the problem w/ having an agil c ourse there lol

[rustic apex]

i dont really see a benefit to it being there either.

[granite sphinx]

its great gp? gives a new pking spot

its been there for 20+ years lol

its just an alternative training method that doesnt make you wanna stab your eyes out

[rustic apex]

Its just more of the flawed game design of the wilderness imo.
Pkers killing non pkers.

[lapis birch]

imo

just make it more about combat

[rustic apex]

band aid solutions to trying to bring more players into the wilderness

[granite sphinx]

i dont see how thats flawed in any way, that methodology worked for like 16 years lol

[bright otter]

I think the wilderness agility course is an amazing example of what the wildy should be IF there’s going to be predator/prey mechanics

[granite sphinx]

til they decided to change it

[lapis birch]

the entire layout of the wilderness is also old

you can tell it was made 20 yrs ago

[rustic apex]

Its flawed in that its creating a rift between pvpers and non pvpers. should want to incetivize pkers vs pkers not pkers vs bots

[bright otter]

you can train agility at that course and get great GP and pretty good xp, but you can go outside of the wild and have extra options. There’s a risk/reward weight and it’s not essential to literal anything (no clogs, no uniques)

[lapis birch]

flat terrain, barely any transportation

[bright otter]

It’s the same with the chaos altar. Great content.

[granite sphinx]

right, but pvmers voted to remove pker v pker interactions with the pj timer

so now you're trying to navigate around that

[winged thorn]

+1

which is why wildy agility is so active in the world you can pj in

[bright otter]

as a pvmer I’d vote right now to reverse the singles+ change if you gave me a way to get wildy uniques outside of the wild

[rustic apex]

Im not saying to remove it but i still believe its bad game design regardless of how long its been around its still outdated and the wilderness still feels dead

[bright otter]

I’d vote yes to anything PVPers want in exchange for that, honestly

[granite sphinx]

the reason it feels dead is cuz theres not really any pker v pker interactions like there used to be

[rustic apex]

thats wild

[lapis birch]

i think the problem is that if you add actual pvp progression

like a skill based system

people would just boost

[rustic apex]

thats my point, we need more pvp not chasing unwanting participants out of the wilderness

[lapis birch]

like dont people boost in bounty hunter

[granite sphinx]

its currently bannable so not that many do, otherwise they would lol

[rustic apex]

its all bannable, hard to keep in check but should we not introduce new ideas just because of the chance that people will cheat?>

[lapis birch]

true, people are cheating anyways

[rustic apex]

Thats liek saying we shouldnt have added the inferno people will jsut buy it

[lapis birch]

its just about how hard things can be abused tho

[granite sphinx]

i mean you're right, but the wildy does get gatekept with that same mindset

[rustic apex]

ofc thats always an issue

[bright otter]

In what way? I want pvp to thrive, I love it as content to watch, I just don’t want to participate. I think the wilderness as a concept is something that is so essential to this game and its history. I just don’t like that if I want specific useful uniques or clogs I have to go there and be prey. I’m all for the wilderness having insane GP methods and all the multi caves and shit you guys want, singles+ removed, whatever, if I can get all that clog/unique shit elsewhere (but maybe just with a way longer grind or something)

[granite sphinx]

its mostly that its a part of the game, and has always been, if you want to kinda "complete the game" then you should need to go there and participate

to get the rewards

[bright otter]

clues are a different story but I don’t get pked on clues so i don’t really care as much as most people do

[rustic apex]

i think the worst type of gate keeping is the polls, and the polls are heavily influenced by players who have been the bait in the wildy

why would you want to keep adding more bait

just a mindset not saying you are

[bright otter]

Yes but I’m saying the rewards can still be there, especially GP. I think the best GP/hr in the game should be in the wild. Let that risk/reward mechanic go crazy. Just don’t force me there for clogs/uniques

[rustic apex]

its a hot take in general though im sure you can agree.

[iron thistle]

I think that's too focused on "fair pvp", which already have places like BH and GE PvP world. The wildy has a lot things that make it wildly "unfair pvp" for PvMer and PvPer alike.

I believe it's better to focus on how to make it fun (it can be "equally unfair" and as everyone is in danger), as long as it encourages more Pker on Pker action.

[granite sphinx]

i dont necessarily, thats why i keep asking to remove the pj timer so pkers can fight each other rather than just hitting pvmer

[rustic apex]

right, wasnt trying to put words in your mouth didnt say you were.

[granite sphinx]

nobody is forcing you to go there for clogs/uniques, its a part of the game the same way that doing inferno is lol, and a lotta people dont wanna do that either

[bright otter]

I do for sure and listen I know yall have gotten screwed by voting from PVMers. I think if we found a solution like mine that gives something to both sides, the voting result might be better

just my opinion. If you just say “vote yes/no for removing singles+” or for adding more stuf to wildy it will be no forever

[rustic apex]

I dont personally disagree with you either, but no shot it happens

[bright otter]

I think we should be trying to encourage as much pvp as possible and as little pking of non pvpers as possible. If you have a pitch that does that you will get yes votes

and that’s mostly what you guys want anyway. Fights

[rustic apex]

Im of the opinion that pvp should be restricted to a few worlds and if you want to do pvm in the wilderness outside the pvp enabled worlds you can grind wildy bosses at insanely low rates that it isnt even worth doing unless youre a madman

also a hot take

[granite sphinx]

i mean non-pvpers have always been integral to the food chain pre-pj timer, thats why it used to work so well. Now that yall are literally the ONLY thing out there it doesnt work as well cuz ur getting hit 90% of the time

[bright otter]

yeah I get it, I don’t disagree, but I’m more talking about this from the angle of what we could do to get a vote passed

[rustic apex]

trust me bro i know where youre coming from my only point is that because we have polls its the cause of the resenment to pkers

so im opposed to things that makes our situation worse

[iron thistle]

I think it requires Jagex taking a stand to admit they didn't understand the wildy when they did the PJ timer change out of "integrity", and having the integrity to partially revert it. Polling it would be like polling UIM questions for everyone, most players just don't engage with it enough to understand.

[granite sphinx]

i mean if we continue appeasement its eventually jsut gonna result in pvp removal entirely lol

[iron thistle]

Like Jagex can definitely put their reasoning out there, so it's not some black box. And they can go back and forth with the community to make things clearer. But at some point it's just a problem that most players don't engage with it enough to understand.

[bright otter]

If you take away the reason for PVMers to feel resentment (they have to go to the wild for clogs and uniques) and make it so the primary goal of the wildy is either to make money, pk people making miney, or pk other people pking, imo a lot of the hate towards pkers goes away and some of these votes could shake out differently. Just my 2c as a pvmer who is pro-pvp

[granite sphinx]

literally every update we've had in the last like 4 years has aimed to do that, like singles+ where u basically cant die

but it doesnt work cuz pvmers just want less and less pvp lol

[iron thistle]

I don't believe you can ever take away the resentment though. I played other games with open PvP, they were called "carebears" over a decade ago, and they now call themselves "prey" in OSRS. PvP just isn't for everyone. You can just make it less resented by encouraging fun PvP/getting more people into PvP, but that section will always be loud.

[lapis birch]

the layout just doesnt make sense as well

like mage bank and scorpia being that deep is just off

deeper = more risk less ways out

[granite sphinx]

i mean deep singles = same as lvl 1 wildy rn

tbf

[bright otter]

Well I agree and so the best way to deal with that is to not make those people engage 🤷‍♂️ you can say “you don’t HAVE to go to the wild” but that’s just not realistic for the average player or Ironman and again ultimately doesn’t really address the issue. You can scream it all day but those people are going to still vote against these things unless you give them a reason to not

[rustic apex]

Sounds like BDO, that game went down hill too because they catered to the casual pvm crowd. Tends to happen with pvp games casuals make up a majority pvp and competitive players are a minority

[lapis birch]

yea you make more gp in lower level wilderness

and then the agility wildy course is just there

probably the worst thing to exist in the wildy

[granite sphinx]

i dont see how that makes any sense lol

[lapis birch]

i just hate it

[granite sphinx]

thats like the only good wildy update theyve made in 3 years

youre free to just not go there

[bright otter]

yeah I think wildy agility and chaos altar are the best balanced things in the wild personally

[lapis birch]

put the voidwaker bosses deeper in wildy with a risk gate

[granite sphinx]

iu mean chaos altar is horribly balanced

that needs some sorta entry fee lol

[bright otter]

^

[granite sphinx]

that things broken

[rustic apex]

whos got that insane wilderness update from the gamejam. scurrius was on there too and was originally there to teach pvp but was made to teach pvm instead

[brazen fox]

Ppl hop there to find pkers too

Also ngl agility course is a massive boost to wildy in general

The amount of new pkers it’s create since I’ve been there alone is crazy

[iron thistle]

That's the thing though. If there's no incentive to engage in PvP, you no longer get new people testing PvP for the fun of it. Like imagine if high-end PvM had nothing better than barrows armor. The high level PvM community would not grow naturally. All that remains of HLC would be the type like xzact, rendi, woox, or others who have a specific mindset and enjoy testing the limits of what you can do even if you don't make money for the effort you put in.

[brazen fox]

I mean I shared the screenie elsewhere but in agility fc I made this thread when I started to learn to pk

[bright otter]

I see it as balanced because the risk matches the reward for users of it. It’s the best prayer xp in the game but not by so much that you can’t just use another method if you’re afraid of being pked. And when you do die it’s just for an inv of bones, not nothings, but not significantt enough to make it be camped by great players

[brazen fox]

That’s a fking tonne of ppl getting into pking and trying to get better

Without the course wildy would be MUCH more dead ngl

[granite sphinx]

i mean there is no real risk if u just tele up w/ 26 or so bones lol

it makes sense w/ noted bones there being some risk

[brazen fox]

Indeed but we also gotta disseminate info better as pkers ourselves

[rustic apex]

ofc but there can be better alternatives to it. Like encounters (of any sort) where if you have pvp gear to fight back you get rewarded more. Not just people with 0 risk trying there luck

[brazen fox]

Get ppl started faster

[brazen fox]

Course has that

[bright otter]

I feel like this sort of thinking just ignores the fact that a massive chunk of this games population are ironmen who can’t meaningfully engage in PvP and will always vote no unless you find a way to make it less painful for them

[lapis birch]

the agility course is just way too deep

[brazen fox]

If u leave u lose ur lap streak

[lapis birch]

i think skilling should be in early wildy

[granite sphinx]

i mean the agil course prints like 3m/h lol it has to be deep

[brazen fox]

Tele out is 30s away

Deep wild is great

[lapis birch]

the deeper you go the more reward

move the voidwaker bosses to deep wildy

[brazen fox]

I think more stuff should be deep wildy so ppl can learn how to escape

[lapis birch]

and you can go past the game without 5m risk

[granite sphinx]

vw bosses are already like 31+ (multi ones anyways)

[brazen fox]

Rather than miss a tick trying to tele and give up

[rustic apex]

than i retract my statement

[lapis birch]

i love doing wildy agility and theres a guy camping the mage bank lever for my blighted restores and karambwans

[rustic apex]

best solution, send him back to lumby

[brazen fox]

I think pvmers have a lot of stuff backward
Would u rather be forced to tank a 5 min timer or simply run 20 tiles and escape?

The first is low lvl wildy the second is deep

[iron thistle]

There are very meaningful ways to let ironmen engage in PvP though. And there are even ironman Pkers who have account builds for it because they avoid gaining combat XP in the wildy.
Ie: https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1463142671941107744
Another suggestion I saw is that ironman can even be rewarded with bond-only money, instead of drop-trading cash to a main.

The issue is there's no demand for exploring that PvP space. Like a chicken-egg problem.

[brazen fox]

Zelias is another agility fc-er fwiw

Case and point rly

[lapis birch]

theres no way to incoporate ironmen into pvp without ruining the integrity of a ironman account

[brazen fox]

All these things do get people into PvP

[brazen fox]

As is it’s kinda fine u can fight back and give key to main for bonds

[lapis birch]

i wouldnt mind pvp protection if you get a kill as a ironman

30 mins or so

[rustic apex]

I had this idea of letting ironmen use keys to roll on a droptable giving either blighted supplies and cosmetics but people always say. "THATS RIPE FOR ABUSE". Dont see how it can break integrity of ironmen but still incentivizes them to fight back.

[winged thorn]

that seems very easily boosted

[lapis birch]

so you can do spindel for 30 mins

or so

without bloodbark demons

[brazen fox]

Ik we complain about hopping around and stuff, I also hate hopping, but I do think as pkers we can help with it by encouraging ppl to try it out

Yh but ppl would just die to alts

[lapis birch]

like a kill grants a ironman a key

for a 30 min instance

capped at like 3 per week

[iron thistle]

Yeah, there's definitely a ton of different possible incentives for iron pvp. The bigger problem is no one's really considering it.

[bright otter]

Yeah I mean I would just abuse that and kill my main 3x a week until I had fully safe vw

and I don’t want to have to do that. I think there’s better solutions

[brazen fox]

Yh cuz it seems impossible and they hear stuff like dd is op and u can’t hit them back

[lapis birch]

same account wouldnt grant a key

has to be a unique kill

[rustic apex]

cant have anything nice in this game because people will abuse everything xD

[brazen fox]

Just like factually incorrect stuff rly

As if they don’t go lms and get cooked attacking dd

[fringe fjord]

ironmen will do anything to not be ironmen

[winged thorn]

why would you want 30 mins immunity though? why wouldnt you just go outside of the wildy to pvm safely

[fringe fjord]

except deiron and actually enjoy the game

[brazen fox]

But ya I think we can encourage ppl to get into pking because it’s genuinely fun

[iron thistle]

But if "abusing" it doesn't cause a net profit (which most of wildy pking is not anways), then it's not going to become a bigger problem than ironman boosting.

[brazen fox]

Instead of doing the same npc fight 50,000 times

Initial hurdle is the problem imo

[lapis birch]

i mean unless you can play at 3am. you get about 1 kc and you get interrupted at vw bosses

if i kill someone who interrupts me

[winged thorn]

surely thats exaggerated?

[lapis birch]

i get 30 min immunity

[rustic apex]

nah theres so many worlds now i went out there to anti pk and was uninterrupted for 2 hours

[bright otter]

I enjoy almost everything about the game, I don’t enjoy PvP, I want pvpers to enjoy pvp and I want the wild to thrive but I would like to be able to get clogs and uniques without being prey for pkers

[lapis birch]

ive been stuck at wt but last time i did it

it was bad

[rustic apex]

only people that interrupted me were bots trying to crash

[winged thorn]

i think i could go do a wildy boss rn for an hour and not be bothered

[rustic apex]

i had one pker after 2 hours and he ran when i went to anti pk him and he hurled insults at me

[fringe fjord]

you can do every boss except scorpia forever and never be pked

[rustic apex]

scorpia needs rework

[winged thorn]

i just think immunity in wild is asking for trouble

[fringe fjord]

scorpia needs to be placed in level 15 with how bad it is

[winged thorn]

scorpia was supposed to recieve a unique 2 yrs ago lol

[lapis birch]

everything in deep wild past the gate shouldnt be there

lol

[winged thorn]

o_o

[lapis birch]

move it forward

[winged thorn]

O_O

[lapis birch]

put the more rewarding things in the "deep"

[rustic apex]

swap ma2 for wildy bosses ?

[winged thorn]

ma2 is fine lol

[rustic apex]

i think so too

[winged thorn]

leave it be!!

[rustic apex]

just asking

[bright otter]

Can you guys explain why multi revs was/is a potential multi hotspot over any other multi area already in the wild (like Scorpia)?

[lapis birch]

ma2 is across the wildy

[fringe fjord]

2018 was 19 years ago

[rustic apex]

stop

i dont want to hear that

[lapis birch]

revs print gp

everyone pks there

[echo harness]

No one in their right mind is going to scorpia in the first place

Multi revs had actual reasons to kill them and fight over access to them

[bright otter]

Gotcha

[fringe fjord]

scorpia makes almost as much money as a low mid tier boss outside of the wilderness

[rustic apex]

only pet hunters really go there

[winged thorn]

scorpia is hard to get to quickly, easy to get out of multi, terrible gp so not worth it. w/ all that being said, im sure it is still botted & ik for a fact that pkers do hop around there sometimes

[bright otter]

So it’s not really about revs it’s just about having somewhere that has a reason to be there in multi (ie the wrathmaw proposal as well?)

[iron thistle]

Also, Scorpia is just too deep. It's a multi-combat death sentence compared that sweet spot somewhere above 30 wildy where you still have a chance to fight and run/tele out still.

[lapis birch]

scorpia is where bad clans go to boost their ego

[winged thorn]

we should all get voice acces and have a movie night watching old multi rev vids

surely i will sway you all

[fringe fjord]

sv3rige/kids ranqe and chill

[lapis birch]

playerbase would also have to let go of nostalgia to let good change happen

thats also a problem

[winged thorn]

it was really that the recipe had been perfected between good gp and not too easy for pvmers / pkers (above 30 wildy) to escape. meaning you had to have tbers if you had a team, or kill your target above 30

really, they had the formula figured out

[inner dew]

this guy needs to deiron

[lapis birch]

https://klipy.com/gifs/raccoon-raccoon-eating-1

[inner dew]

whats this multi level rendering

can we sit on rooftop agility courses and snipe ppl below as they go by?

[minor aspen]

I think it’s just visual, and probably would be disabled in pvp areas

[inner dew]

that makes sense

[lyric eagle]

As a proud clan leader osrs needs a pvp update. Please make osrs PvP scene great again

Dear jage don’t forget about the multy combat PvP

Pvmers been getting to much attention now it’s time that we also get some

We need a update now!

[fringe fjord]

Posted an xp lock suggestion for pvp worlds in the suggestion channel, since the feature has already been tested in bh

[fringe fjord]

also an idea for @winged thorn that I worked on yesterday

multi revs will never pass a poll in the current climate, here's what might work, to be constructive.

instead of trying to force multi back into the wilderness again, why not move that concept somewhere it actually fits?

add multi zones to PvP worlds instead.

in those zones:

drop rates are increased, unnoted drops become noted, blighted supplies are added to tables for longer trips

everything still exists in normal worlds exactly as it does now.

the only difference is: if you choose to go to a pvp world, you make more per hour with lower supply cost, but you’re signing up for possible player interaction.

fully opt in, there's no uniques, no different mechanics, just increased profit from drops, better chances at uniques and lower supply costs.

this solves a few problems at once:

no one is forced into it, if they don't want to they can get the same uniques at their current rates elsewhere.

teams actually have a reason to fight each other in a condensed space instead of hopping 40 wilderness worlds.

you reduce world hopping because pvp worlds are limited.

you’re not injecting high value multi loot into the general wilderness ecosystem again.

right now every time multi wilderness content gets proposed it runs into the same wall: the receiving side doesn’t want to be there.

pvp worlds don’t have that problem.

everyone logged into that world knowing exactly what it is.

if the goal is to create big multi fights and more active pvp, why keep attaching it to unwilling participants?

build it in the space that’s already entirely opt in.

and there's another upside to doing it in pvp worlds instead of the wilderness.

because it’s fully opt in and doesn't affect normal worlds at all, it avoids the whole ''this impacts my gameplay so i’m voting no'' dynamic that you're currently going to be dealing with.

if you don't log into pvp worlds, nothing changes for you with this update.

that makes it way less politically radioactive.

if the content lives in pvp worlds, it's self selecting. the only people meaningfully affected are the ones choosing to be there, that alone gives it a better chance of passing

this avoids the guaranteed no votes, multi revs in the wilderness will get spite voted into oblivion, if you move the enhanced multi version to pvp worlds, you’re basically sidestepping that entire voting block, you don't need to involve people that aren't active in PvP worlds because it doesn't affect them.

that allows you to bypass it, but not in a shady way, just in a way that structures the content so the people that don't want to engage aren't impacted by it

wilderness multi gets voted on emotionally, pvp world multi gets voted on by people who actually want chaos

if the goal is to get multi activity back into the game in a healthy way, one of those has a real chance and the other doesn't

hope you enjoyed the ted talk

[lapis birch]

I like this idea

even making the drop rate worse on regular worlds I wouldn't mind tbh

I also don't think everything needs to be polled as well. Majority of the playerbase that has 0 interest in pvp are going to vote no just because they died doing a clue scroll

[brazen fox]

There are people that loveeee doing Callisto and stuff

I rarely go multi but when we do and it’s quiet we’ll just do Callisto and hit any team that shows up

I’ve seen ppl with like 30k kc callisto

Legit players too

It sucks if ur trying to solo for sure

But idk, there are people who enjoy it

[fringe fjord]

people aren't going to vote to make things worse

[fringe fjord]

you still have increased pet chances at callisto hence why solo players do it

[brazen fox]

Yh but im saying there are plenty of small groups that enjoy that content

Especially as an intro to pvm

[lapis birch]

that why it shouldn't be polled

pvp worlds -> more active , faster progression

non pvp worlds -> safer alternative but longer grind

the only problem would be mega clans or masses locking down these worlds

then everyone going back to non pvp worlds

[brazen fox]

Yh condensing worlds in multi is less important imo since u can have multiple people scouting

Then u got problem of clans holding it down with sheer numbers and rag sets

[brazen fox]

No way Rev bots now have looting bots too

Anyone with lvl 30 and below account go pk those accounts for some gp

fk that

Their stats for reference

Gotta one hit them cuz below 30 line :/

[minor aspen]

God spell with charge could i suppose

[brazen fox]

i think it puts u out of cb lvl range

ngl if i had an account id just rag the loot bots cuz thats diabolical

[winged thorn]

Rs3 has opt in PvP in wildy my friend. Please don’t bring that yucky to OSRS

[minor aspen]

I go to calli solo a lot but it’s very difficult because most teams nowadays grew some brains and figured out fighting back is easy. Most times if i drop down and hit someone they all start hitting me back

[inner dew]

what about ibans

might be 20 max

[next comet]

Are they scepter farms fighting back?

[minor aspen]

No, i haven’t run into bots in a very long time

If you mean actual players farming with scepters, that is most of them

[minor aspen]

oh i misread this, the answer is yes. i read "are the scepter farms back"

[tender geyser]

my only 2 cents about pvp as a new player who just started this game in october, no nostalgia for RS either way, is that pvp doesnt seem to fit the entire rest of the game as iv experianced it. like the satisfying gameplay loop thats gotten me hooked is account progression, quests, getting all these little items like bow string spool to make something else a little quicker. and the whole wildy feels antithetical to that. place you can just go perma lose your gear including untradeables. and im finding learning pvp just impossible. i spent a few hours in LMS and am playing DMM and have seen no improvement on my end whatsoever. yes this is a ""skill issue"" but when iv been practicing other content i actually improve over time and feel excitement doing so. pvp in RS feels impenetrable and like everyone else has been doing it for 20 years and i cant compete. so i dont really see a reason to engage with it any further when its just a place to go die and has nothing to do with the rest of the game where i work really hard for my gear and gp and stuff. DMM is a little better in that sense but its just not really fun the way people camp and rag and just exist in that game mode to be annoying. like they have successfully annoyed me, i know thats their goal, and they are good at it

[inner dew]

have u looked into guides and the different mechanics? they are mostly not apparent at all if u are new

like how potions/food work, you can sip a potion during an attack with no extra delay. or you can always drink a potion after eating food with no extra delay.

there is quite alot of clicking/switching gear/prayers in LMS style pking (nhing) though for sure

another mechanic example is switching from a fast weapon to a slower weapon allows you to hit with the slower weapon once at the faster weapons speed, before the slow weapons attack speed takes over

[wooden basin]

Yeah there's nothing in the game that teaches you how to combo eat, what gear to wear to make simply switching weapons less detrimental (hybriding type of stuff), freeze logging, etc. Its stuff you learn by being in clans or watching youtube videos. I recommend joining a pk based clan if you wish to deep dive

I especially recommend being humble and willing to learn when people kill you and asking questions opposed to being toxic like players do. You'll get a lot further that way

[next comet]

The reason you feel lost is because LMS or DMM doesn't teach you about how to PVP on its own. As the posters above have suggested, you should watch PVP guides on Youtube. Multi pking is also another form of pking that I believe is the best way of easing beginners into pvp but you would have to look for a team/clan to join. As a solo wildy pker the progression goes like this, LMS -> hunting prey/bots -> fighting other pkers. Black chins/zombie pirates were active bot hotspots that attracted a lot of new pkers, I can't say if the activity is still there after hearing about recent bot nukes but it might be worth checking out. If you want to taste blood and spoils with the littlest risk, you could kill some naked Chaos Altar boners with a cheap msb/dds setup as well.

[wooden basin]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1472099085707378910

Just made this. Hope jmods see it

[minor aspen]

One way to think of wilderness pvp is as endgame content. It will be a long and costly learning curve, but rewarding to the dedicated.

You are right though that the skill floor is relatively high, but that’s how it is with any game that has been around for a very long time. Some games eventually add bots to smooth it out for new players. Our bots aren’t so easy though 😅

[proven fox]

anyone doing a breech in dmm b1 ?

[cerulean saddle]

multi revs soon 🙏

[brazen fox]

I understand your PoV but NHing is the perfect example of progression and grinding

I started NHing less than a year ago and it def seems impossible at the start - there’s so much to do and it’s hard to know why you lose at first

But tbh most players are rly quite bad and it won’t take you long to become better than the average lmser

Because there’s so many things to learn u gotta tackle one thing at a time and build up ur skillset else you’ll get overwhelmed and develop bad habits

There’s plenty of experienced pkers in here so if you would like some advice feel free to ask! At some point we we all new to it so we know it’s hard

If u wanna see progression download pvp performance tracker and watch ur deserved damage get better over time 🙂

[iron thistle]

You're right about how pvp feels to a new player.

Unlike pvm that has continued to evolve starting with zulrah, pvp never got different ways to learn pvp that didn't already exist. There's even early/midgame bosses to teach pvm but none of that for pvp. So unless you go through guides/teachers, a pvp progression doesn't exist like how fleshed out pvm has become.

[tender geyser]

I have looked at guides and videos, and this particular thing you said is something that never even came up

I appreciate the advice but it's hard to just watch a video and then "do it" when "it" is a bunch of weird mechanics. I don't do any tic manipulation when I skill and I don't prayer flick for example. But you can reach 99 and do all the PVM stuff iv encountered so far without using those mechanics. If I want zuk helm then maybe. But it feels like if I'm not doing that stuff I can't participate in PVP at all

[winged thorn]

I think jumping into PvP when still relatively new to the game is brave. DMM isn’t an easy game mode & PvP obviously isn’t easy either. It’s chaotic & can be unpredictable at times. PvM can be used to prepare yourself for certain PvP things; switching your gear, prayers, using spells. But a lot of the experience you get is from jumping in & just doing it. Otherwise, how else would you learn? But I think it’s wise to be intentional about what kind of PvP you want to do. See what appeals to you & try to dip your toes in. Expect to die, a lot, & then ask questions

Also, don’t expect to be “good” over night. It takes a long time to master anything in this world. A game that’s already finicky with all its “spaghetti code” is no different. Heck you could be the best pker in this game & still get rag dolled by RNG. It’s just the game we play

[wooden basin]

I have a buddy i used to farm gwd with. I trained him how to do bandos and stuff. We started running callisto. Anti pking, etc. This was a year or more ago. From there he started doing singles. Practicing. Man lives in wildy agility now, anti pking. I see some pretty big loot keys coming from him. He started really getting good about 6 months ago

Takes a while, and i know he lost a bit in the process. But he rakes it in now. I think anti pking is a nice start. Gives you a big advantage. Just gotta get someone to bite can be the problem.

[winged thorn]

I wish folks who felt like prey in the wilderness would try to anti. Normal players dont know how much of an advantage they can have by not skulling & preparing properly

[tender geyser]

i have tried but it just hasnt been effective. i am still attemping to engage but it feels bad. i wish there was any place in the game with an elo mechanic. i know this would be smurfed/botted. but even getting a real other new player 50% of the time would be good

so you can practice vs someone who isnt doing perfect freeze into dd

[next comet]

Are you strictly looking for 1v1s vs other pkers? You could try checking out PVP Arena worlds, I have fought quite a few random beginners in casual fights when I'm there for fun. Advertise for a couple mins, see if anyone bites

[tender geyser]

I'm trying to not hate pvp. I am trying DMM the last week and have tried going into LMS and the wildly and it's miserable and I feel like a farm lol. I want to defend myself but haven't had any improvement at all so far just get wrecked. I tried 3 times this morning to get past the dudes camping the varrock sewers in DMM bcus I wanted to get the ez points from scurrius that's it. Dude killed me 3 times and got my bolts and gear. it feels like there's no counterplay. Like pvp is impenetrable and there's no way to learn anything except to never have anything on you

[wide crater]

i havent seen anyone else mention this either, but since you just started in october, MAKE SURE YOURE USING F KEYS. dont learn clicking your diff options to switch to f keys later like i did lmfao. but to follow up what everyone else said, its not something youre gonna master after a few fights. guides will help, learning tips like switching to tank after every barrage, triple eats, WHEN to triple eat/when to brew. they all take practice to become habits, but dont worry, as far as tick manipulation goes, all you have to worry about really is your weapon speed so you can hit off prayer but that almost comes naturally after a while

[tender geyser]

And I was comparing it to PVM where i'v felt like I'm improving as a new player and its satisfying

[wide crater]

pvp arena, and getting some friends in white portal are also decent risk free options of practicing

every single pvm boss has repeatable mechanics tho. you get good at pvm through memorization. that doesnt exist in pvp bc every single fight will be different and unpredictable so of course youre not gonna see the same progress rates

[brazen fox]

Bruh trust I’ve been there but this shit is so accessible with the right help

Tbh I didn’t do any pvm except gauntlet on my iron - I was pretty much only a skiller. I got into pking bcos I was running wildy agil masses on mobile and wanted to “give back” to the ppl who spent time anti pking so I could run laps

Then I started learning pking and had help from objectively good pkers, got into the nh staking scene etc.. It helped tremendously

It’s all well and good watching a video but realistically a video needs to be a certain length to upload, right? That’s way too much stuff for a newbie to digest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3QwBRpMso
take this vid for example, realistically this is several months work of stuff to work on (all of it is v v good tho)

Videos are gna talk about PID and stuff like bruh PID is like way down the line when you understand most stuff but are optimising

Just pick the most important thing ur still bad at and grind that 👍 that way it’s jsut one thing ur focusing on. Also don’t judge progress by lms wins or points, judge it by the work ur doing practising or ur improvements in deserved vs someone good

Feel free to dm me, I’m not a top pker but I’ve had a lot of help from objectively top pkers and I’m happy to pass that info on

[glacial gate]

Multi revs enjoyers in the chat?

[winged thorn]

Me

[wooden basin]

I dont have the experience but sounds fun

[next comet]

Just need them to buff the loot

[fast cradle]

make the multi area bigger... buff the loot

[magic rivet]

I’m not even a player but I’m watching osrs videos like it’s the best tv show ever

https://youtu.be/br3MuH8crdk?si=bvPvHd3G6jSWD2F-

this guy seems pretty insane

[glacial gate]

the content creators for this game go above and beyond any other game ive went down the rabbit hole of. osrs is a lifestyle. a language.

[shrewd wadi]

One day I’ll learn cox!

[tender geyser]

i started playing OSRS this past year in october bcus youtube started feeding me osrs videos

i think Settled was the first one. it randomly gave me one his videos. never watched RS in my life

[idle fulcrum]

Are there any top LMS players that want to provide coaching?

[next sequoia]

I could.

[brazen fox]

Send it g someone here will help if u struggling with something

[fast cradle]

practice makes perfect @idle fulcrum

you'll get better over time no doubt

[fast cradle]

don't beat yourself up if you get wrecked at first

[idle fulcrum]

I can kill bots that don’t protect from anything so that’s a start!