the question whether the past is changed alongside the memory is still open for me
#🤔｜theories
azure bay
azure bay
& the blue cube was just an instrument to prevent the event that was rediscovered by Dale
I want to underline a possibility
astral frost
yep
azure bay
Dale was ignorant about the event probalby because of that memory being too traumatic
e.g. supressed
damn... We'd be more sure if there were some signs of confusion on Dale's behalf
or...
azure bay
mental deseases
vague imp
Dale never had mental diseases though. Whatever he had was inflicted by Mr Owl.
azure bay
Dale never had mental diseases though. Whatever he had was inflicted by Mr Owl.
@vague imp alcohol abuse, anxieties, ichtiophobia...
hollow comet
can't say if changing memories really changes that past because chronologically, The Cave is the lastest installment in Dale's story
We haven't seen him get to the Hotel yet
azure bay
can't say if changing memories really changes that past because chronologically, The Cave is the lastest installment in Dale's story
@hollow comet wrong you are
azure bay
The Cave happens before Birthday & Theatre from Dale's perspective
hollow comet
Birthday, Theatre and Paradox all happen while Dale in hooked in that machine
azure bay
no, Paradox only
astral frost
Birhtday and Theatre happen during the ascent
azure bay
agree
hollow comet
huh, if the blue cube had been consumed, how did he change the past then?
azure bay
he understands
hollow comet
I know, but what exactly do you mean by "projection of one consumed"?
azure bay
I'll start from far away, if you will
hollow comet
sure
azure bay
Dale's arrived to the very bottom of the lake & entered the marbre cube (as I call it)
presumably Paradox's started somewhen then
or, as for another version, all the iterations have happened in a short moment between connection Laura & Dale to the machine & creating the cube
Dale has embraced his CS (maybe Laura being a one some how helped him)
& starts flickering between a CS & a human state
He gets the golden cube
still unconcsious
he is pushed in the elevator
the journey starts
astral frost
(Maybe Dale's memories were extracted while he was connected to the machine)
azure bay
I think it was in the water
maybe the very moment he escaped CS in Case 23 (if we believe his words there)
vague imp
I'm so confused
azure bay
the golden cube
I personally see a strange possibility that it was given to Mr. Bat through Dale's mind as it's seen in a secret Paradox ending
So I'd not be surprise if it will be given back by Mr. Bat the next game
astral frost
(maybe it's just a reminder about the destination of the elevator)
azure bay
maybe
hollow comet
but Mr Crow handed him the golden cube?
azure bay
yes
but I'll review another possibility
Dale still possesses the cube
but it isn't visible
what is visible
both in Birthday & Theatre Dale is still flickering like in the begining of his journey
the trip itself is pretty real
the unreal starts when Dale stops to look into his cubes
& after he finishes his journey continues
personaly, I'm a bit disappointed that there was no extra stop on his way
it feels somehow incomplete for me
That's it
hollow comet
very illuminating
azure bay
now about projection
hollow comet
though I'm still not sure if I agree on Dale experiencing Birthday and Theatre after Cave
but that's just what I think
azure bay
as he still possesses the golden cube, the blue cube coud be taken from it on some astral level & placed inside Dale's memory
but
as there are possibly multiple blue cubes It could be just brought by Owl from anywhere
though I'm still not sure if I agree on Dale experiencing Birthday and Theatre after Cave
@hollow comet the main clues are the similarity of the elevator trips & Dale constantly changing his state between human & corrupted one
hollow comet
there are clues, no doubt
hollow comet
but rn I can't make much sense of the idea of "projecting the blue cubes". I mean, the elevator is not some magical machine, we've been inside it.
anyway, thanks for taking the time to summarise all that for me :)
azure bay
The elevator has nothing to do with that
it was the lake crew
who put the cube inside Dale's memory
& they could take it either from the golden cube or anywhere else
astral frost
There are some elements in those memories which weren't "there" in the real events
that's what @azure bay is saying
I think
azure bay
exactly
thx
so back to the blue cube & Dale
My notice is that he may not remember the event due to traumatic memories being supressed
But
he clearly recognises it as his birthday
as it was written on the start of the memory
azure bay
but still is he confused to come back?
astral frost
maybe?
azure bay
yeah, difficult to tell
astral frost
we also know we can't trust Dale so much
azure bay
for what reason?
astral frost
about TWD memory you were talking about
astral frost
and also about Paradox folder
azure bay
it all seems to be altered from outside
astral frost
yes
azure bay
and also about Paradox folder
@astral frost what about it?
astral frost
The one with Dale's mental ilnesses
azure bay
yeah, I remember
astral frost
So I wouldn't take him as the mainly reliable source right now
azure bay
cause the memories can be also subjective?
astral frost
not only
for example, Bob's memories seems more reliable to me
maybe because they contain more infos
azure bay
agree, but I tend to be a bit more cautious
astral frost
yes, indeed
azure bay
at least on dreams 3 to 6
& also a day 7
that may seem to be a direct continuation for the dream 6
astral frost
that's what I think too
uneven flicker
but it isn't visible
I thought too, but actually it was revealed as a bug. Now we can see the golden cube when Dale is in front of the mirror, holding the cube in Paradox.
ivory girder
I've just realized that Albert single-handedly brought up Rose, Leonard and "Frank", then Frank killed him but Rose still danced with him. Why did he kill Ida, Samuel and his mom but didn't kill Leonard?
Do we have any clue about this?
I think the new game might answer this question (definitely not because of the beehive on his head)
I think this channel is the right place to write this right?
spice frigate
yeah, it is
vague imp
Maybe killing Leonard was not necessary?
Please remind me - is Leonard the son of Ida and Samuel?
vague imp
If so, the developers left out leonard, rather baby Leonard in the scene where ida and Samuel were killed. Maybe samuel was not killed because he was considered a chosen one to carry/find the time piece?
If you think about it - all 3 cousins were meant to come together in the end.
Maybe it was Albert's purpose to kill his mum, Samuel and Ida cos they served no purpose? At least no purpose for the lake
I may not provide an exact answer but I'm trying to make sense of it - apologies if it doesnt answer your Q
ivory girder
hmm interesting.
vague imp
Please ping me if you need to ask me anything. I sometimes forget I type things on these channels 😅
azure bay
𝐉 | 제이 (& everyone else), feel free to ping me whenever you have something to tell me here
I thought too, but actually it was revealed as a bug. Now we can see the golden cube when Dale is in front of the mirror, holding the cube in Paradox.
I was talking about golden cube being invisible in Theatre & Birthday. It may seem strange since everything else indicates these games being after The Cave.
solid haven
He just put it into his inventory.
azure bay
or as an alternative in some way gives it to Mr. Bat through his mind :з
astral frost
If so, the developers left out leonard, rather baby Leonard in the scene where ida and Samuel were killed. Maybe samuel was not killed because he was considered a chosen one to carry/find the time piece?
@vague imp Albert only hated Samuel and Emma since their childhood, and succedeed in making them die (Emma committed suicide, Samuel was killed by Albert itself). Albert also loved Ida, so he killed her when he understood he couldn't marry with her. He wasn't interested in killing their children.
azure bay
@astral frost I think the version of something else stopping Albert is as legit as yours (even though I share your opinion).
vague imp
I dont think its something to question tho, it just happened
vague imp
Yeah but, I cant play these games once and catch on. I'm already forgetting some stuff and may have overlooked things as well.
For e.g I didnt understand the need for Albert to create a daughter of his own. Was it because of his love for Ida? If he loved Ida so much he should have killed Samuel and kept her alive (obviously the love won't be mutual) but its obvious Albert is incapable of love, why have a daughter?
azure bay
I don't see a strong confirmation of his incapability
he is just miserable
& unbeloved
so he needed someone
vague imp
But you'd think Rose would be a looney tunes as albert as her parent. She looks pretty stable and willing to know the truth thus helping William. Clearly albert didn't raise her
azure bay
We don't know her well
We don't know him well
he could be not that crazy since his revenge was successful
& talking about Rose, communication with the dead is not that normal, I guess
vague imp
He killed his siblings for stimulating a beehive which fell on his head
vague imp
Please do tell
azure bay
have you read my reddit post?
the one I was crazy about :з
Here's an extract from Gamescon 2019 reaction I've found on the internet
There was also a small demo of a 3D game featuring Albert, simply called "Albert" in the tablets home screen. There is a table in a room with a weird mechanical cube on it with tubes and gears all over it. Inside the cube stands Albert next to a table. The goal is to fix the tubes and gears to get a small cube from the outside into the inside. You can rotate the cube and zoom in on stuff. You have to actually drag the item from the inventory. The cube lands on the table inside the cube and Albert looks at you. The game zooms into it and the game restarts (?). When talking to the other guy from Rusty Lake (I don't know if it was Maarten), he told me this implies that we are now looking at this new cube and we go deeper and deeper, y'know. He also told me that this game will show what made Albert the killer we know and love. Apparently, the bees weren't enough.
I've been refering to it on reddit
azure bay
you're welcome https://www.reddit.com/r/rustylake/comments/jpw613/nwh_analysis_the_upcoming_albert_game/
vague imp
Thanks man
azure bay
:з
azure bay
as far as I know (MatPat theories) FNAF has a lot of depth & a lot of different media
Hope RL will achieve the same one day
VR
novels
azure bay
It's already sold off :c
covert wyvern
sadly.
azure bay
gladly, I've bought it in time
vague imp
Idk, I think RL is so worth it
covert wyvern
We have enough unaswered questions as is,
which is what this channel is all about 😉
vague imp
But the different colour cubes confuse me a lot - but that's another story for another day
polar warren
RUSTY MAMMOF
covert wyvern
I love it very much
undone sun
Mr Mamut
azure bay
Like this
@spice frigate I have fear they've forgotten it. Or decided it to be a bad idea.
polar warren
Mammof is gr8 idea wdym
azure bay
But I'm excited about it even more than about Albert & young Laura together
covert wyvern
do y'all think the mammoth is standing in the lake
does that mean the lake is shallow there,
is it a TALL mammoth
who knows!
polar warren
Taaaaaalllmoth
azure bay
the island on the background is familiar
spice frigate
Or they left it for much more important projects
azure bay
the island on the background is familiar
sorry, not island, but a shore
remove the chapel & add the mamoth
hollow comet
do lakes really last that long?
vague imp
Its a magical lake
azure bay
I've heard a rumor that 20k B.C. was the period of the lake formation
polar warren
It's THE lake
vague imp
I want to tell you all something but it won't be fitting for this chat - please check it out in the cabin
azure bay
so we may get an origin of the Lake itself
maybe It's the reason of silence
too early or too raw to present something new on the topic
astral frost
Do you think they were thinking about a game setted in the past, and then changed to Paradise?
I also a remember a man with a "devilish" mask
Probably a prototype for Nicholas Eilander
azure bay
are you implying that 20000 b.c. became Paradise?
azure bay
I don't think so cause 20k b.c. was announced 2 years after Paradise
astral frost
I also think they deleted those posts
astral frost
Actually they didn't delete Albert's game even if they announced it a long ago
so it could still exist
vague imp
i would like do ride a mammoth.
undone sun
we will probably have to kill it lol
azure bay
or to kill the entire species
undone sun
Sacrifice their memories to the lake
astral frost
A mammooth is like an elephant
It has an incredible memory
-> lots of cubes for Owly
Seriously, that's not a bad idea
astral frost
-Little big question-
What do you think about the Deer in Rusty Lake serie?
We've seen Nicholas becoming Mr Deer, and then attacking Dale as a CS in the Cabin.
We've seen his skull worn by Albert in Roots (and also in the new game, in the teaser trailer), and by Dale in Paradox and TWD (in one of the Dreams where Dale is stalking Bob in the club).
Do you think the Deer itself has a deeper role/meaning?
vague imp
Other than the aforementioned. I think the deer is symbolic of something in the rusty lake universe
azure bay
Nicolas became Mr. Deer then CS & highly probable to attack Dale
Albert just wears a skull
Dale is a candidate to become a new Mr. Deer
undone sun
Am lost , Nicolas is the father ?
azure bay
Yep
astral frost
Why do you think Dale will become a Deer?
The ruler of the Lake is an Owl, after all
vague imp
Why is Dale becoming a deer?
Honestly who said that?
I think it would be the MOST confusing thing ever if they recycle a deer for Dale
What if Dale becomes an owl?
In my opinion, an owl seems to be godly, it was hovering over RL paradise towards the end of the game for that ritual?
It can't just be replaced by a deer? Makes no sense to me.
azure bay
It can't just be replaced by a deer? Makes no sense to me.
@vague imp I don't think about symbolism & hidden meanings. Everyone interprets them in a unique way
I'm working with facts
Owl announced Dale as his successor
We've seen Dale with a deer head
Twice
From 2 different perspectives
I may be wrong
But don't try to prove it with a pure subjectivity
Use facts as well
The ruler of the Lake is an Owl, after all
@astral frost I have not seen any rule to define Owls as the only rulers
In fact, there were probably none before Jacob Eilander
Cause his mother, the lady of the lake (as Lacus Fleo has refered to her) seems to lack any power
@vague imp here's a bonus connection
Dale is teased to become a deva. A god
In Paradox Deva is depicted by a deer
vague imp
Remind me quickly when dale was pictured with a deer? In paradox?
azure bay
After corruption Dale was able to see other forms of himself scattered in the forest
vague imp
The deer and corrupted soul?
That had absolutely nothing to do with it- I seriously doubt
azure bay
I'm talking about chapter 2
Dale becomes that very corrupted soul
& sees many more Dales
A normal one
A half-corrupted
A hanged one
With a rope on a tree
The movie one
& the one with deer's head
The movie Dale said "we are all trapped here"
So every Dale is probably real
Another time we meet Dale-the-deer is in TWD
Bob meets him in a club inside his mind
alpine atlas
the owl could be god and the deer a prophet
it makes sense right? the deer often is carrying out orders from the lake
azure bay
it makes sense right? the deer often is carrying out orders from the lake
@alpine atlas there is a possibility of Mr. Owl being a god, as long as there is no strong disproof
But he is believed to be a demi-god
As Mr. Crow
alpine atlas
is the dog also a demigod
alpine atlas
that sucks :(
azure bay
Another thing
On the picture with a deer as a god we see an owl as a demon
Or at least as a condemned ghost
I have difficulties with interpreting a samsara wheel of RL
hollow comet
I should point out that the hybrids are called /asura/ and /asura/ can't really be considered equivalent to 'demon'.
azure bay
I call them demi-gods
vague imp
So Dale the deer ay? @azure bay I don't like it very much
azure bay
But the owl I'm talking about is in the naraka segment
So Dale the deer ay? @azure bay I don't like it very much
@vague imp deer is a noble animal, y'know
hollow comet
both /dev/ and /asura/ are demi-gods. In the mythology that RL takes inspiration from, both of them are locked in a perpetual war, though that doesn't seem to be the case with RL
But the owl I'm talking about is in the naraka segment
that is the same wheel but in different order than in Theatre. /Naraka/ is represented by the underwater forest
so even in this one, the owl is an /asura/
azure bay
both /dev/ and /asura/ are demi-gods. Inthe mythology that RL takes inspiration from, both of them locked in a perpetual war, though that doesn't seem to be the case with RL
@hollow comet The devas as far as I know are more powerful & successful than asuras. That's the reason of their jealousy & agression
so even in this one, the owl is an /asura/
@hollow comet that's why I'm confused with the Wheel of Paradise & Paradox
hollow comet
afaik they're both on the same level, but just have different purposes
vague imp
But Nicholas is a deer? That's his animal
azure bay
But Nicholas is a deer? That's his animal
@vague imp I find a bit strange to devote an animal to a single person. Asuras seem to have a society big enough to fill several countries
afaik they're both on the same level, but just have different purposes
@hollow comet I've heard a different opinion. We need to research the question one day
hollow comet
it's problematic, there is no centralised authority on this
we'll only ever find opinions
vague imp
Once I'm done with my career then I'll take a month or so to research this :) probs will be 60 years old - hope you guys don't mind
azure bay
it's problematic, there is no centralised authority on this
@hollow comet then let's go deeper into the concepts
Samsara is suffering on every level
For devas this is an inevitable end of their live full of luxury & joy
For asuras this is jealousy of deva's way of life
@hollow comet Do you agree here?
hollow comet
For devas this is an inevitable end of their live full of luxury & joy
I do agree on this
azure bay
So devas seem to be somehow higher than asuras
Otherwise I don't see a reason for asuras to lack that kind of life
hollow comet
interestingly, in the same mythology, the /asuras/ and /devas/ fight for an elixir of immortality
azure bay
halahala?
hollow comet
no that was the poison
hollow comet
no idea, my knowledge on this is very limited
my point is, RL is definitely following some aspects of this but not all of them
/asuras/ are supposed to be fighting /devas/, not helping them in ascension
as happens in RL
azure bay
my point is, RL is definitely following some aspects of this but not all of them
@hollow comet I'll try to find sonething on it then. But not tonight
/asuras/ are supposed to be fighting /devas/, not helping them in ascension
@hollow comet yeah, that's obvious
I just want to understand the inspiration in order to be able to see the similarities
& the difference
hollow comet
What's the name then?
I've only ever heard the term /amrit/ but not sure if there's a proper name.
/amrit/ is too broad a term
azure bay
In your opinion, the forest is a world or a creature?
hollow comet
it's a purgatory
souls spend a limited time in each stage of the wheel before moving on to the next
nothing is permanent
azure bay
But not on every case, as we can see
hollow comet
can you elaborate?
azure bay
Bob seems to be changing in a different pattern & he did not descend the lake as far as I know
hollow comet
but CS and the forest are supposed to be two different stages
maybe Bob hasn't reached purgatory yet
azure bay
That's not what I'm trying to say
For me it's a bit weird to put on the same scheme both creatues & a realm
So the forest could be a naraka creature as well
Another step from the original hindu concept
hollow comet
"creature?"
azure bay
Idk how to properly name the world of narakas
So I call it naraka realm
& its dwellers naraka creatures
If the forest we see on a wheel of Paradise & Paradox is the very same forest
We can assume that it's also able to change its state
Cause it takes the asura segment there
I'm just not sure what's depicted on that wheel as a whole
Is it up to date for Paradise period?
Is it a prophecy for a future?
Is it a mistake made by Caroline?
Cause she probably was not as advanced as her son became
astral frost
Dude you are making confusion about that image
Starting from the top clockwise we have:
DemiGod
Naraka
Corrupted Soul
God
Animal
Human
There are different representations of the wheel
azure bay
Really?
astral frost
Yes
I mean
The one in cave has a different order
But you can simply figure it out by the drawings in every "slice" of the wheel
azure bay
The one in cave has the very same order that the Theatre one
azure bay
& they both are the same to the one I can see on wikipedia, but not the Paradise one
astral frost
which is the one on Caroline's book
astral frost
No no, I was just saying the wheel depicted in the various games isn't always the same
Probably RL wheel has a different order from the real Hindu one
azure bay
There is only one contradiction I've ever seen
Caroline's one vs everything else I've seen
astral frost
I wouldn't tend to consider it as a contradiction
It's just a different representation
There's the one drawn by Caroline
And the one drawn by Aldous/ William probably
they conducted different studies after all
azure bay
If there is no different representations IRL, this is highly probable to be either a mistake or really mean something
I just ask an example of that
astral frost
wait
I've found this one
a – Gods (Deva)
b – DemiGods (Asura)
c – Humans
d – Animals
e – Corrupted Souls (Preta)
f – The misterious one(Naraka)
azure bay
This seems to be a bit mirrored
But key neighbourhood rules are followed
Searching for another one
astral frost
btw there's also the Samsara Room one
undone sun
"one of the SIX stages of the weel" as mr owl said
astral frost
No no, I was just saying the wheel depicted in the various games isn't always the same
I keep thinking this
azure bay
The thing is
Many-many google image search results depict the very same config
You don't just change it in a 3d game after using it the 1st 2
There should be a pattern
Even in your example there is one
Devas are up
Narakas are down
Asuras & humans are above pretas & animals
astral frost
Yes but in that case which theory could be behind this?
azure bay
The realms depicted in different games are occupied by different examplaires?
undone sun
azure bay
By still stay tge same
The forest becomes asura
The owl - naraka
The deer - deva
But is it really?
I'm not buying the idea that Caroline decided to put naraka a bit upper because she knew that was right
But she could do it by mistake
But why would you redo that mistake for Paradox?
astral frost
?
oh ok
My final thougt is: different people studied the reincarnation and created different wheel with different stages' order
azure bay
Mr Owl or the Lake (whoever created Paradox) would not put the wrong idea into Dale's head
astral frost
there's no wrong idea
It's a wheel, not a pyramid
There's no "top stage" (even if the God one is the most powerful as we know)
it's a circle
That's the sense of Samsara
azure bay
Never the less, Mr. Owl would not put info that contradicts his opinion
Or knowledge
As he seems to know a lot about the world
it's a circle
@astral frost a circle with an order that many agree on
astral frost
The fact it has not an order proves no stage is privileged
Even if there Gods are the most powerful
I mean, they coexist
azure bay
I'm not talking about the privileges
I'm talking about the order that devellopers would not ruin without a purpose
astral frost
There isn't an order
azure bay
But there is
astral frost
Which one?
covert wyvern
Idk fam, circle has no ending or beginning
hollow comet
astral frost
Idk fam, circle has no ending or beginning:Epic:
@covert wyvern I think the same
It isn't a line
azure bay
Either deva, asura, preta, naraka, animal, human;
or deva, azura, animal, naraka, preta, human;
& also mirrored onez
@covert wyvern I think the same
@astral frost & still EVERY FREAKING depiction puts devas in above of the picture
No previleges
Just a picture
astral frost
But there's no reason to speculate about this hahaha
azure bay
You don't just cut it as a pizza & reform it however you like
If you take an inspiration of it
astral frost
But what would those different orders imply in RL universe?
azure bay
The order should be the same. The occupants may be different, or it's a mistake on purpose
Like forest was or will be an asura
azure bay
You are hopeless :з
Cutting off a big half of possibilities with no strong evidence isn't a way here.
astral frost
You're right hahaha
covert wyvern
No one's hopeless here. It's all just theories.
vague imp
Is devas derived from a religion?
azure bay
What do u mean?
astral frost
the whole process of death and reincarnation is inspired by Hinduism
Even if RL developers shaped it at their will
Devas are the Gods in Hinduism
in RL the only Deva we know is Mr Owl
astral frost
I'm 101% sure he's a God
azure bay
Why so?
astral frost
Paradise is a whole prove
azure bay
Why so?
astral frost
The Owl is the chosen one
azure bay
Chosen for what?
astral frost
And the one stage left in the wheel was the God one
azure bay
Let's not talk about the wheel depiction
astral frost
Until Paradise, the God stage was occupied by a ?
azure bay
We won't agree on it
Cause I see a deer to be a deva
& Dale is teased to be both a deva & a deer
vague imp
So the developers were inspired by Hinduism and reincarnation - managed to incorporate that concept into the games ? Yet we're not allowed to "dive too deep in religion"
astral frost
So the developers were inspired by Hinduism and reincarnation - managed to incorporate that concept into the games ? Yet we're not allowed to "dive too deep in religion"
@vague imp In fact we only talk about RL vision of it
We need to do this
azure bay
Answer my questions please. Chosen for what?
astral frost
To become God
azure bay
Or a ruler of the lake?
astral frost
The same thing
astral frost
From all the phrases said in the games
I can't find them now hahaha
What do you want me to find?
astral frost
Ok
azure bay
Maybe we'll get that one in the future
But for now it's very uncertain
As far as I subjectively know
So feel free to convince me
hollow comet
/devas/ are not gods, they are demi-gods
azure bay
/devas/ are not gods, they are demi-gods
@hollow comet let's agree that devas are more powerful than asuras but still mortal
azure bay
I believe they are not equal cause there is jealousy on asura's behalf
astral frost
-First point: the paintings in Theatre. We see the 6 painting corresponding to the 6 stages of the Wheel. In every painting there's a Sanskrit description of the specific stage. Sadly, the God's one is a black painting with a little ? in a corner. The black surface let Dale mirroring himself as if he was depicted in that painting (a little old hint of what he would become once reaching the Hotel)
azure bay
-First point: the paintings in Theatre. We see the 6 painting corresponding to the 6 stages of the Wheel. In every painting there's a Sanskrit description of the specific stage. Sadly, the God's one is a black painting with a little ? in a corner. The black surface let Dale mirroring himself as if he was depicted in that painting (a little old hint of what he would become once reaching the Hotel)
@astral frost Owl also impersonates Dale in God's play
Can we do it later?
astral frost
OK, but Owl is a God until Dale takes his place
azure bay
I'm getting sleepy
azure bay
OK, but Owl is a God until Dale takes his place
@astral frost why he is not depicted in that frame then?
OK, but Owl is a God until Dale takes his place
@astral frost & he also could be a demi-god that looks for someone more efficient to replace him
Goodnight for now
Don't answer yet
astral frost
i'll continue with the second point tomorrow hahaha
azure bay
Prepare your answer wisely
astral frost
😉
azure bay
I'll try to prepare mine
astral frost
@astral frost why he is not depicted in that frame then?
@azure bay cause that was a mistery until Paradise
We only knew there was a God stage, but nothing more
azure bay
We knew from the start of samsara presence that Dale is the one to become a god
@astral frost So the mystery could cover him only
astral frost
The mistery once covered the whole God stage: we knew since Theatre there was a God (somehow) but nothing else
Paradise revealed it (even if it was clear): Mr Owl was the God
then we discovered Dale is his successor
azure bay
The mistery once covered the whole God stage: we knew since Theatre there was a God (somehow) but nothing else
@astral frost dude it was not clear. The fact we disagree what's a god there is an indicator
It either owl or deer
& we also cannot be sure which owl & which deer are presented
astral frost
It was very clear I think
-First point: the paintings in Theatre. We see the 6 painting corresponding to the 6 stages of the Wheel. In every painting there's a Sanskrit description of the specific stage. Sadly, the God's one is a black painting with a little ? in a corner. The black surface let Dale mirroring himself as if he was depicted in that painting (a little old hint of what he would become once reaching the Hotel)
-Second: Rusty Lake Paradise. This is the game where we first see the whole wheel. There are the usual stages (Naraka, Corrupted Soul, Animal, Human, Demigod) and the God stage, previously indicated as “?”, was replaced by an Owl. I don’t know why you are saying Owl isn’t the God stage when there’s an entire book talking about the importance of the Owl itself (named “The chosen one”) and his presence in the last stage of the Wheel. Moreover, Mr Owl is the real boss of the Lake, he has superpowers (can create storms and teleport people), but he needs a successor.
-Third: Paradox. At the end of Chapter 2, Dale finally meets Mr Owl, who clearly says he needs someone as a “Ruler of the Lake” after him. This means Dale will take the place of Mr Owl when he will reborn (even Gods aren’t immortal without the full Elixir apparently). Matching all those infos, Dale will become the God.
I must say this isn’t a theory based on some details or forecasts. It’s just an objective observation of what happened in the games, considering all the books and the dialogues.
About the Samsara Wheel discussion, there’s nothing else to theorise about the fact the stages are switched. As I said, Samsara is a circle, not a pyramid: the existence of different representations (for example, Paradise’s one is different from Cave’s one) doesn’t imply devs made an error, or Mr Owl is making a double-play. They are just different, but both correct (cause, again, Samsara is not a Pyramid, but a circle).
about yesterdy discussion
@astral frost dude it was not clear. The fact we disagree what's a god there is an indicator
@azure bay You should add some reasoning to this
azure bay
@astral frost
- Agree on Dale. No evidence on Owl here.
@azure bay You should add some reasoning to this
@astral frost Paradise wheel is questionable there.
Every single depiction of it on the internet shows the circle to be turned with deva's segment to the top with no deviations. A kind of an order is also followed on all those depictions: asauras & humans are always drawn over animals & pretas. So we have some kind of canon here.
The wheel could probably be rotated in Paradise making devas upside down, but segments of pretas, animals & humans are on their expected places & devas should be drawn above them. So the the deer should be the god here.
And even if we suppose that the wheel was uncanonically scrambled, the '?' segment could be placed with an equal probability up or down so the deer & the owl are equaly probable to be devas here (If you choose to ignore my arguments from above). So the owl is not confirmed to be deva here as well.
Plus, there are multiple deers & owls in this series. So we can't be really sure which ones are covered.
- Dale being announced to become both a deva & a ruler does not mean by the laws of logic that while the Owl is the ruler he is necessery to be a deva. Their cases are shown to be different in some major details.
astral frost
Moreover, in Paradise Nicholas and the Eilander become demiGods and Jakob becomes Mr Owl. Now, if everyone agree on the point the Eilanders are demiGods, which stage is Jakob in?
azure bay
I don't know which exactly stage Jacob is on. He is either asura or deva. I tend to think about asura. But still consider otherwise
Cause I admit that my perception is subjective
That something obvious for me with my set of experience is vague for others with a different one
My observations:
- Eilanders sacrificed Jacob to become asuras
- they are definitely asuras because Mr. Crow is confirmed to be one & they are less powerful than him
- Jacob was ment to be dead. Cause as far as I know sacrifice is ment to be a bad thing. But he was apparently saved by Caroline
Who probably sacrificed herself in his favour
- Dale is ment to become a deva because of all what you brought out. His way is long & mr Owl helps him on every step
- we did not see a journey as long on Jacob's behalf. & it's confirmed that there was no asura (even more so no deva) to guide him
- what's more, Caroline is probable to be the previous ruler of the lake
cause she is refered to as 'The lady of the lake'
So the ruler is not necessary to have the highest form
astral frost
That's what I think too
Caroline looks just like a Human with a mask
So the only point we disagree on is that one:
Can you name those stages?
In your opinion
azure bay
I tend to believe those stages to be the same as everywhere else. Just different occupants are presented there: the forest became asura, the owl became naraka, the deer became a god.
The only thing I'm not sure about is the time period depicted on the wheel
It could be the future
Dale becomes a deer as predicted, the forest changes under his rule & the Owl for some reason gets his downgrade
It could be somewhen in the past
Or, as a little possibility, a mistake on Caroline's side cause she is not as powerful as Owl who seems to know better
astral frost
I tend instead to consider only the images depicted in every stage
In that way, there wouldn't be any contradiction
In fact
That wheel was drawn by Caroline, who depicted the various stages according to her studies (for example, in the DemiGod stage there isn't a Crow, which was an inexistent form yet, but a Deer, the Demigod form of Nicholas)
The Naraka, as always, is represented by a forest
And the one left is the Deva one
astral frost
But the Deer form already "existed" (see the mask in Caroline's cave)
As well as the other 4 Demigod forms
Boar, Pheasant, Pidgeon, Rabbit
azure bay
Yeah, they were just impersonating demi-gods
Or indicating what form they desire
For the lake that, as I think, gave them their new forms
astral frost
So why would the forest indicate the DemiGod form, when it always indicated the Naraka form?
astral frost
For me, it's a rethorical question as I've already said
azure bay
For me, it's a rethorical question as I've already said
@astral frost flat-earthers also think that their theory is obvious. But we unlike them can admit fallacies of our perception
So
astral frost
I've argumented my theory
azure bay
I consider 2 ways of forest's depiction
I've argumented my theory
@astral frost Everyone have argumented, but we need to resist the confirmation bias
& try to consider the opponent's version
The thing is there is probably no objective truth
Everything can be interpreted in many-many ways
& we can only guess what did authors really mean
I even suspect that they can make us think in the wrong way on purpose
So
My 2 opposite ways to interpret the forest
It's either a place for naraka
Or a naraka itself
If it's a place it can become inhabited by asuras
If it's a creature it may become an actual asura
It may or may not keep the forest form
Just an assumption
frigid nova
Hi, I wanted to ask if there is one theory or a lore that I can read to get up to speed with the topics here
vague imp
As far as I'm concerned - you can try reading on wiki or reddit. But not all the theories and lore that we mention here might be there
@azure bay please intervene
@frigid nova
azure bay
@vague imp @frigid nova I don't really have anything formulated. Espesially in english
I'm just planning to start a global picture of mine
covert wyvern
Honestly just do your own digging
vague imp
But I think they want to know if there is anything currently available for them to read that's theory based
I only know wiki and reddit
azure bay
& is doomed to be lost, sacrificed & fed to the lake
vague imp
Does anyone know the translations of the sanskrit text in the paintings of theatre?
azure bay
see the glossary on wiki
vague imp
😊
astral frost
astral frost
perfect!
@azure bay what do you think about this?
They don't look like usual representations of the 6 stages
azure bay
For now I prefer to ignore this cuase 4 animal stages are too much for me
azure bay
As crearly as a daylight
astral frost
Cause there's a black cube upon William with some objects linked to it
Knowing William is the protagonist of Samsara Room, it could mean something
azure bay
Those objects are the elixir ingredients
astral frost
I know I know
azure bay
The black cube containing them I interpret as memories about making the elixir
astral frost
I agree with you
Could the Samsara Room wheel represent various stages related to William?
azure bay
It's clearly connected to William's forms there
But idk what are they
They all look like preta
astral frost
It's like he's continuing to change form until the definitive one
They all look like preta
@azure bay agree
It's like devs tried to remake the original game, without changing everything
azure bay
Same feeling
So it's difficult for me to regard all that as a part of the lake picture
astral frost
Btw they added the secret level with the giant shrimp
azure bay
Yeah, seen that one
azure bay
The original SR tried to show a sequence of rebirths before reaching the nirvana
astral frost
I remember
azure bay
My 1st thoughts were that William experienced them between preta & human form
But it requires a stretch
He probably needed to exist in a different time
To have time for all of those
Maybe, as you say, it was a soul formation before returning to the world as Laura
A friend of mine decides to put a stronger connection between the original & the remake & announces that William has rejected nirvana to become Laura
astral frost
Yeah it happens in the time frame after William's death and before Laura's birth
A friend of mine decides to put a stronger connection between the original & the remake & announces tgat william has rejected nirvana to become Laura
@azure bay So it would be possible to decide what to do?
azure bay
What do u mean?
azure bay
Yeah, they are
astral frost
Or triggered by some events
azure bay
But originnaly, samsara can be broken & left
A reject of constant cycle of rebirth & suffering organised by a demon
You need to become enlightened to be able to do that
azure bay
Nirvana is a state or non-existance
azure bay
Yeah, in RL context we see enlightenment as a promotion
But returning to hinduism, some may chose to return into samsara in order to help others to reach the enlightenment
Those are called bodhisattva
As far as I can judge this info made my friend to think about William's choise
The problem is that bodhisattvas are believed to be somehow advanced
astral frost
And William was just a Preta
azure bay
I see no problem with William
Laura should've been advanced in order to indicate her bodhisattva status
Maybe with knowledge
astral frost
Laura is advanced compared to William
azure bay
Or a control over her life
astral frost
William= Preta / Laura = Human
azure bay
Let me explain
If she is bodhisattva I expect her to have some kind of goal, to see a bigger picture of the universe, to understand the rules of the game & to be able to use them to reach that very goal
But she seems to be just another miserable human being
With no control over her life
astral frost
Oh you mean that
Some time ago I used to think Laura was aware of her past life as William, but next games proved this theory was wrong
I remember a theory saying Laura contained 2 souls fighting against each other
But everything makes me think Laura is Laura
But she seems to be just another miserable human being
@azure bay so I agree with you
Btw
A very important question just arised
azure bay
who killed Laura Palmer?
astral frost
who killed Laura Palmer?
@azure bay spoiler
About the transformation CS -> Human
We've see you are a CS either because:
you're dead
someone extracted your memories
In the first case, if you "face your demons", you can re-acquire your previous Human form (as Bob did)
In the second Case you change form (as happened to Caroline or William)
Right?
azure bay
Could you please regather everything about Bob's tranformations?
astral frost
I'm replaying TWD just to do this
I can tell you what I remember
So
In my opinion events unfolded like this
1 - Laura dies (we don't precisely know how it happened yet)
2 - The Case 23 is commisioned to Dale
3 - Dale and the Police Officer we see in Case 23 and TWD start to investigate and discover Bob and Laura just broke up just before her death
4 - Dale and the Police Officer start stalking Bob, looking for evidences about his involvement in Laura's death
5 - Bob is apparently accused, and he's brought to the Police Station
6 - Now, that's the most complicated point, cause over there Case 23 and Theatre events are closely linked in my opinion. I think Bob never shot himself, but this event represent what happened in the Police Department, where Dale someway extracted his memories (I think by an interrogation). In fact, in Theatre Bob becomes corrupted when Dale takes his last memory about Laura.
Then Bob manages to re-become a Human by reliving other Dreams/memories
Another important question just arised
fuck
Why in TWD Bob changes as a consequence of his dreams (reliving memories)?
Have we never seen something like this before?
azure bay
We have multiple cases of his corruption
- Theatre/The-Lady-Dream
- The-Lost-Soul-Dream
- Police Department
- Day 5
azure bay
The 4th is unreal for you?
astral frost
You're right
The point is this one
Why in TWD Bob changes as a consequence of his dreams (reliving memories)?
It's like he changes state only by reliving memories
And we always thougt his Corruption happened in another way
azure bay
There is a theory that a form could depend on a emotional state
Like Laura did not literally changed her past, but her attitude to herself
astral frost
yep
astral frost
So can we assume neither TWD is totally real?
azure bay
Hear me out
azure bay
In his final dream Bob finally learns a lesson given to him by Laura long ago
That she is not gone since he remembers her
astral frost
"It's all in your mind"
azure bay
& that presumably brings the colors back to his life
A story of acceptance
But
There are different views concerning Sarah's ending
Originally I was thinking that it's an alternate ending timeline like the one we get in Paradox (Dale ends a cycle either by dying or by leaving it)
But most of my community mates seen it as a continuation to the original ending
& that could mean that his treatment was a lie, he lives from now on in illusions & he is still imprisoned
There are some clues that could support the 2nd view
For example, the whole day 7 looks like a part of the dream 6
& patient's state is listed as "dreaming" while on sarah's level it's "???"
& they both share the same date
Tbh, I like both versions
astral frost
That's what I'm starting to think too
& that could mean that his treatment was a lie, he lives from now on in illusions & he is still imprisoned
@azure bay
Can I explain you?
azure bay
Tbh x2, that's what made me so tolerant towards theories that contradict my picture
Can I explain you?
@astral frost go ahead
astral frost
As I said, I've just noticed Memories re-lived in TWD are not just dreams, but influence the daily existence of Bob: we always thougt Bob became a CS either in Theatre or in the PD, but in TWD Bob reach that form in Day 5, when he's trapped in that White Room.
Then, in the last day, he arrives at TWD and reach his room where his CS is. This makes me think:
First, it can't happen, as far as we know
Second, it's like Bob reached the end of his healing journey, and now he can "face his demons"
This would mean TWD events are not so real as we thought, but they would be Bob's perception of them. Assuming this, Laura's finale phrase would acquire another sense added to the one you gave: what happened during the game is how Bob saw his staying at TWD, his fight against (probably) depression for Laura's death and his memory loss.
Now I would ask myself: what happened really?
I mean: when Bob arrived at TWD, was he a CS?
azure bay
I assume, he was a human
Cause Sarah had time to develop an attachment towards Bob
Or at least she seems to do that
I may be wrong, so that's a weak point to build everything on
Thinking further...
vague imp
When you guys are done I would like to ask a question
azure bay
Do it right now
vague imp
Did Laura know she was going to die?
vague imp
I read somewhere that she left a message for Dale but I cant remember which game or if it's true
astral frost
I do not remember this one
I read somewhere that she left a message for Dale but I cant remember which game or if it's true
azure bay
Do you know what message?
astral frost
They only interacted in Paradox as far as I know
azure bay
& Paradox is in Dale's head
vague imp
I cant remember
But why does Dale keep seeying her around?
Is it just in his head or is she truly haunting him?
He doesn't know Laura from a bar of soap
azure bay
They are in opposition for the ritual
azure bay
"Why do I keep thinking about her?"
But why does Dale keep seeying her around?
@vague imp and in other cases she is directly shown to him by the lake crew
So
TWD
astral frost
Here I am
azure bay
What evidence during his stay could indicate him being a human & what - him being a CS?
Maybe a difference of his own perception?
While he is a human he sees everything nirmally
While day 6 everything is dark & surreal
astral frost
For example he's feeded with a rotten donut
While day 6 everything is dark & surreal
@azure bay
azure bay
The dinner is also weird
astral frost
yes
Btw I'm trying to collect all the infos about TWD
including the ARG stuff
I'm not so sure about my thougts now
vague imp
Thanks 😇
azure bay
I'd mostly devide for now TWD & ARG
only dates in documents were considered as important to understand TWD
I've assumed back then that's there are at least 3 mental health institutions in Owl's possession
2 with fishing
Unless TWD is retconned RL
& Mr. Owl's Mental Health Retreat & Hotel
This one seems to be for asuras for me
astral frost
Back to the old question
What do you think about Season's ending? Why Laura returns Human with her old form?
azure bay
The idea is that TWD:MH&F could be older than RL:MH&F
astral frost
The idea is that TWD:MH&F could be older than RL:MH&F
@azure bay I'd tend to consider the opposite
TWD is more like an extension of Mr Owl researches in a city
azure bay
I also did but the earliest date in TWD documents is 1960
If they both did not exist before their 1st mentioned dates, TWD would be the oldest
What do you think about Season's ending? Why Laura returns Human with her old form?
@astral frost my guess is that she've changed her past & prevented her death & corruption in the 1st place. Maybe with switching timelines, so Dale's story is not canceled. But I don't have strong evidence for the 2nd statement
astral frost
Oh so you're saying "Mental Health & Fishing" isn't the Hotel and what is around it
azure bay
Probably
It could be a rebranding
Or they are the same but targeted towards different races
Mr. Owl's Mental Retrieve & Hotel contains an open reference to Mr. Owl
astral frost
What is "Mr. Owl's Mental Retrieve & Hotel"?
azure bay
The only mention is in Paradox
Ch 2
A flyer
& a resolution to send Dale there in the end if his file
Mr. Owl's Mental Retrieve & Hotel contains an open reference to Mr. Owl
But he is more public in asura's society. So the flyer could be for asuras
astral frost
While in TWD he's studying Human's memories
Remember Hotel existed at least since 1890
astral frost
We see the the Hotel already existing during Roots and Birthday (where the globe clarifies the dates)
azure bay
Hotel - yes
astral frost
But not the other place you mentioned
astral frost
Unless it's a rebranding for humans
@azure bay probably this one
Or maybe it's the real name of the place
Mental Health and Fishing
azure bay
I'm just not sure whether humans are allowed at the hotel
I guess we'll see in young Laura's game
astral frost
In fact Laura and Dale only stayed in the Cabin and in the Chapel
As far as we know
azure bay
Yep
azure bay
Cya
vague imp
Why am I never here when you guys go on a tangent 😪
azure bay
I'll ping you next time
vague imp
Please and thank you
azure bay
@astral frost pssst!
Fancy continue reviewing Bob's corrruptions?
river topaz
azure bay
@astral frost I'm ready as well
@vague imp as promised
So we have 4 cases of Bob's transformation
I won't assume whether some of them are real for now
We need just to understand what happened
- Theatre
- TLS
- PD
- Day 5
What happened in the PD?
vague imp
Thanks for the ping @azure bay ☺☺
astral frost
I'm here
With some screenshots
What happens in the PD?
Right now, we have 2 points of view: Dale's one and Bob's one
In Case 23, Dale is making deep researches into Laura's death: he understood it isn't a simple case of homicide. Laura's death could be somehow linked to that misterious place called Rusty Lake, which was visited by the woman right before her death. Dale is convinced knowing more about the Lake will bring him some answers.
In the interrogation room, we can see an handcuffed Robert Hill with a policeman who is controlling him: Bob was last Laura's partner, so he was probably one of the top suspected. We know Laura died the 12th of October, in 1971 (about one year before). So Dale and his colleagues had their time to investigate on Laura's death, and came up to blame Bob for the homicide. Robert isn't just suspected, but ACCUSED (another proof is the book False Accusation seen in Paradox and TWD).
By the way, Dale is the only detective who understood Case 23 wouldn't had finished by finding a guilty one, so he's making hard researches about Rusty Lake.
At a certain point, Bob becomes Corrupted, kills the policeman who is controlling him and vanishes
azure bay
& leaves a black cube
astral frost
At a certain point, Bob becomes Corrupted, kills the policeman who is controlling him and vanishes
This is, in my opinion, the most important point to focus on
& leaves a black cube
@azure bay yep
azure bay
What happened from Bob's point of view?
hollow comet
it's shown in one of the dreams in TWD
something to the effect of "and then everything went dark" and Dale said "I need your memories"
astral frost
Bob was surely depressed for his whole life: Laura broke up with him, he was fired and he discovered Laura died. To make matters worse, he was accused of the homicide
So Bob was in that interrogation room, with the policeman acting rude with him. At a certain point "the light flickered", "everything went black" and Dale said Bob: "I need your memories". No mention about the hanged policeman.
Then Bob left the black cube to Dale
vague imp
Guys I do apologise - As much as I wanna sit and read, I'm way too busy rn 😔
azure bay
NP
astral frost
azure bay
So
I assume that the light flickering was a sign of coming corruprion
Probably there were others
Cause the officer somehow understood that something is wrong with Bob
& his attitude could be the last straw for Bob
astral frost
I agree
azure bay
I expect to see something extra there
Dale was also depressed
But there was no signs of corruption back then
Ok
astral frost
In fact, what we know about Corruption?
It comes when someone extracts you memories
azure bay
We need to review Dale as well, but for now I'd rather finish with Bob as far as we can
astral frost
Or when you die and your memores simultaneously are extracted
azure bay
It comes when someone extracts you memories
@astral frost Or rather a bad death
solid haven
Or by drinking the elixir.
azure bay
Or by drinking the elixir.
@solid haven that what I was refering to
But tried to tie in Caroline's case
solid haven
Deaths that have to do something with the Lake and its powers tend to cause corruption.
azure bay
There is not enough confirms that William's death is connected to the lake
astral frost
William's death is linked to the elixir
ivory girder
i think the tv is sonewhat related to extracting the memories of bob
astral frost
Or rather his transformation into Corrupted Soul
azure bay
William's death is linked to the elixir
@astral frost James' is also linked but we did not see his CS yet. While William's CS tends to see everything hidden
astral frost
@astral frost James' is also linked but we did not see his CS yet. While William's CS tends to see everything hidden
@azure bay Can I say something about this?
azure bay
Go on
solid haven
Maybe it's because the dog didn't get enlightened. So he didn't transfer into a different stage of Samsara either.
azure bay
Maybe it's because the dog didn't get enlightened. So he didn't transfer into a different stage of Samsara either.
@solid haven good point. We'll consider that possibility as well as the other one
astral frost
I think James didn't manage to create an adequate elixir. His dog didn't reach the enlightenment, but only a longer life
Exactly @solid haven
azure bay
I think James didn't manage to create an adequate elixir. His dog didn't reach the enlightenment, but only a longer life
@astral frost the dog may not reach the enlightenment due to being too low on karma
azure bay
Let me explain
You are telling that the wheel is round & every form is equal. That's not true. Originally, it's karma that decides a form to be reborn in. In RL there is probably something similar. The elixir is a legit way to give a boost to a human but not to an animal
astral frost
oh ok
solid haven
Maybe he's actually just piloting a parrot-human hybrid mech.
torpid shore
Maybe he just went “Screw you lot, being a parrot is MUCH more fun”
ivory girder
so not making the adequate elixir is probably the right answer
azure bay
Maybe he just went “Screw you lot, being a parrot is MUCH more fun”
@torpid shore Mr. Owl himself gave him that form after his death
so not making the adequate elixir is probably the right answer
@ivory girder for which case?
azure bay
No, I'm telling here that the elixir is not a way to give the enlightenment to an animal
ivory girder
oh ok
azure bay
I'm judging while considerting other transformations which are very-very diverse
astral frost
Returning to Bob, he became Corrupted cause his memories were extracted
azure bay
When were they?
astral frost
We see a scene about extraction in Theatre: Dale goes into Bob's mind and extract various memories. The one which triggers the Corruption is about Laura
azure bay
It may trigger the corruption in Theatre only
It may also trigger a corruption inside his head in TLS
But it's unlikely to affect him in the PD
astral frost
What I originally thougt is: Bob's corruption in Theatre is the same one which happens in the Pd.
I thougt this assuming Theatre events didn't go as we saw them
azure bay
(a legit assumption)
azure bay
Let's work with the version of 2 corruptions of CE games being the same
How did you imagine it?
astral frost
First, I assumed Theatre events weren't totally real. A shot in the head, to me, means death, so I thougt it meant something other. It could be an especially strong drink gave by Aldous the Bartender (was he really here? at this point I'd say yes), or it could be a representation of the interrogation which happened into the Police Department. Dale "goes into Bob's mind" (with lots of questions) and he finally reaches the most important one, the one he was looking for his investigations about the homicide : the memory about Laura. When Dale manages to take this memory, Bob becomes Corrupted
azure bay
So you tie in the Dale's interrogation memories with entering Bob's head?
astral frost
Yep
That's how I explain the shot
the shot
dude
A shot of a drink
fuck
hahahaha
azure bay
))))))
astral frost
a bartender would never give you a pistol
azure bay
This kind of shots is not that lethal & would explain the amnesia. The problem is there is no scar left
small mountain
I have a theory
azure bay
Too alegoric for my liking. & we are not finding the best explanation. We are finding them all
I have a theory
@small mountain go on
small mountain
The Rusty Lake games are all post traumatic syndrome. As a child, an unknown person wearing a rabbit mask killed his parents, and the main character began to invent these secrets and riddles to console himself and try to find out the truth. Rusty Lake itself is just where they lived, and the hotel is possibly a family business
azure bay
Too far-fetched for me. Unless you bring up some evidence.
So many characters were shown on such a time span. Dale would never be familiar with all of them
astral frost
But what about Paradise for example? It's setted many years earlier than the events regarding Dale
azure bay
@small mountain are you still here?
small mountain
Yes
azure bay
Do you have anything to answer?
azure bay
Are you going to try answering later after digging more?
azure bay
I encourage you to revisit the whole series to find some more evidence to your theory. Ping both of us whenever you are ready or just have a question
@astral frost back to Bob
We need as many seemingly reasonable explanations as we can find
An allegory is one of them
The other one I see is the shot being an illusion
Do we connect Theatre here?