🤔｜theories

[light cipher]

Yeah but tomorrow, I m just exhausted right now, good night xD

[vague imp]

Good night

[azure bay]

why does the system fail to send me notifications? missed another discussion :c

[astral frost]

Hey guys! I've just found this channel, I'd like to suggest you a little theory about how Memories work. It's just speculation, Rusty Lake universe is incomprehensible and apparently inconsistent everywhere ahaha.

So, we know from "the Mill" that extracting negative memories causes the Corruption. Negative memories are represented by Black Cubes, which we see floating around the Lake. However, there are different Black Cubes: I mean the ones in "the Lake", "Harvey's Box" and "Hotel". Those Black Cubes/Negative Memories are linked to specific Corrupted Souls: it looks like they are "phisically" the same "object" (for example, when you defeat the Souls in Harvey's Box and in The Lake, they turn into Cubes. Also, when you interact with the 5 Cubes in Mr Owl's room in the Hotel, they turn, for a moment, into the Souls of the Guests). My tought about this whole thing is: assuming anyhow that Corrupted Soul and Black Cubes are linked together, could the Black Cubes just mentioned represent the ESSENCE of those Souls? I mean, their "most negative" Memory, for example the one about their death.

[vague imp]

The Black Cubes seem to represent a negative or traumatic experience, not just one's death. You can see that in birthday when Dale is going up the elevator and he reaches a black cube, and then the game plays his traumatic memory of his family death. He didn't die, but it was traumatic, therefore a black cube. Thats how I see it at least

It's part of him, thats why it needs to be extracted

[astral frost]

So, how do you interpret the end of Harvey's Box? Why that Corrupted Soul drops/turns into a Black Cube?

[covert wyvern]

I think we should consider the fact that Harvey has the ability to create black cubes, maybe that's exactly what they did

How? Idk lake magic.

I do think that black cubes are a solid form of a corrupted memory, they are called memory cubes, after all.

I also think that having one leads to a corrupted soul

[astral frost]

I do not agree with that

Mr Crow is permanenty in Demi-God stage of the Wheel, and he continues to manage Black Cubes

I think we should consider the fact that Harvey has the ability to create black cubes, maybe that's exactly what they did
@covert wyvern so why should he create a Black Cube at the end of that game? I think more likely the Corrupted Soul dropped it

[covert wyvern]

Maybe Harvey tried to save its owner (laura) by extracting a black cube.

[astral frost]

It could be possible, but my point is specifically about how those Black Cubes work

[covert wyvern]

Eh I stand by what I said, they're simply a corrupted memory, stored in a physical object

Or rather as a physical object

[astral frost]

I agree with you about that definition

I'm trying also to understand more specifically how they work

my theory is

Assuming that a Black Cube represents a negative/traumatic memory of a living being, and that a Corrupted Soul is specifically linked to that Cube/Memory, is it possible that Mr Owl used this link to trap the Guests Corrupted Souls into those machines in the Hotel? This connection would explain also Harvey's Box and Cabin ends, from my point of view: involved Corrupted Souls would drop their negative memory when they disappear.

[vague imp]

A soul might get corrupted without having all its bad memories extracted, so when Harvey defeated it, he might have extracted by accident or he just has that power to do so. I think Mr. Owl trapped the guests because you might still extract black cubes from corrupted souls, or better, you might be able to use the power directly from the corrupted themselves, it might be just dangerous.

I didn't understand your point about Hotel, can you explain ?

[covert wyvern]

I think a cube could also potentially hold an entire soul

It's like a usb

They come in different sizes lmao

[rugged gorge]

I think a cube could also potentially hold an entire soul
@covert wyvern like cube don’t just hold memories?

[vague imp]

It's hard to know whats possible, have something in the games hinted to that ?

[covert wyvern]

What is a soul if not a combined experience of our memories.

[rugged gorge]

if they put together a bunch of memories they form a soul

Makes sense to me

Like what they did in paradise

That would explain the fusion of mr owl

[astral frost]

I was discussing how Mr Owl succeeded in trapping the 5 Corrupted Souls. In other game, we see Corrupted Souls wandering like "ghosts" (they can disappear and show themselves to Humans at will). So I was thinking how Mr Owl could have trapped those Souls, and I theorized that by "blocking" their Negative Memory, the Souls would have been trapped.

[vague imp]

In theory a soul can be way more in the games, if you can extract them. Maybe if you extract every memorie you make a mindless corrupted soul, but theres something there that used to be the person, otherwise if you extracted every memory there wouldn't be a corrupted soul

[covert wyvern]

o

[rugged gorge]

He took their memories maybe we don’t know what happened between paradise and hotel

[covert wyvern]

Proposition;

Notice how rhe Machine is filled with water?

It's very likely owl just trapped them in the lake.

The lakes water probably has some magical / alchemical / wacky abilities

[vague imp]

In paradise they put together a bunch of memories ?

[rugged gorge]

In paradise they put together a bunch of memories ?
@vague imp the whole game is you collecting the memories cubes of the mother

I just can’t remember their names sorry lol

[astral frost]

In Paradise we see the creation of Elixir by making 10 sacrifices (such as in Roots)

[vague imp]

You collect the memories, but you don't form a soul, you form the ritual

[astral frost]

Exactly

[vague imp]

The lake might trap the corrupted soul, we see them chillin out there in The Cave

Mr. Owl could have used the water to trap them

But what led them to escape ?

[rugged gorge]

The lake might trap the corrupted soul, we see them chillin out there in The Cave
@vague imp but if is this, how they escaped

[astral frost]

But what led them to escape ?
@vague imp this is the point

How did Mr Owl trapped them?

[vague imp]

Exacly, I think this might have something to do with Dale 😆

[astral frost]

Dale was not born yet

[vague imp]

I mean they escaping, hes going to the hotel with the Golden Cube

[astral frost]

But they escape in 1894, one year after Hotel's events

[rugged gorge]

Dale and Laura are just some non possible to theory yet

Cuz every question is about before they even were born

[astral frost]

Dale and Laura are just some non possible to theory yet
@rugged gorge let's let them out this discussion for now ahaha

exactly

[vague imp]

Because we just killed them in Hotel, maybe Mr. Owl might have extracted the black cubes and put it direcly in the vats (the corrupted souls)

[rugged gorge]

I think that the mill is the answer about how people get trapped

[astral frost]

Because we just killed them in Hotel, maybe Mr. Owl might have extracted the black cubes and put it direcly in the vats (the corrupted souls)
@vague imp about this, I noticed that Black Cubes are extracted in 2 ways: by an homicide, or by other strange ways(such as machines)

In Hotel, for example, we extract memories probably by killing the Guests

Oh wait, I've just realised that Mr Owl could have used the same machines of Mr Crow in the Mill

[vague imp]

The cubes might be formed by being murdered, but where does the cube go if youre just murdered ?

[astral frost]

Mr Crow extracted Memories from Laura's dead body, so it could be possible

[rugged gorge]

The cubes might be formed by being murdered, but where does the cube go if youre just murdered ?
@vague imp to the lake

And then to the Mill

Where they are transformed into cubes

[astral frost]

The cubes might be formed by being murdered, but where does the cube go if youre just murdered ?
@vague imp you can collect them. Nicholas got one Caroline's memory in Paradise

[covert wyvern]

I think as long as the brain is intact

You're able to extract cubes

[vague imp]

When Mr. Crow extracted them, he had to add them in the lake, I don't think the cube would just appear there

@vague imp to the lake
@rugged gorge

I think you have to extract someway

[rugged gorge]

When Mr. Crow extracted them, he had to add them in the lake, I don't think the cube would just appear there
@rugged gorge
@vague imp hm

[astral frost]

@covert wyvern but Corrupted Souls looks like ghosts, so I wouldn't describe them as physical beings

[rugged gorge]

But their bodies are don’t they?

Like what they were before

[vague imp]

Not from the soul, from the body, but you might be able to extract from the corrupted soul and well

[astral frost]

So, how can we answer to this question?

How did Mr Owl trapped them?
@astral frost

[rugged gorge]

Well he did something after the paradise ritual

[vague imp]

After the death of the guests, Mr. Owl might have used their bodies into a machine and trapped them in there

[rugged gorge]

After the death of the guests, Mr. Owl might have used their bodies into a machine and trapped them in there
@vague imp the food

[vague imp]

Its hard to say what happened after Paradise

[rugged gorge]

The food trapped they there

After they were dead

He got their brain

[vague imp]

Maybe

[rugged gorge]

And extracted they memories

At least that’s what makes sense to me

[astral frost]

So why there are Black Cubes trapped in those machines?

According to you, that would represent the fact that Mr Owl is extracting other memories from them, am I wrong?

[rugged gorge]

I think that isn’t mr owl that’s extracting

I think it’s mr crow

[astral frost]

I think that isn’t mr owl that’s extracting
@rugged gorge yes one of the Hotel staff

[vague imp]

Maybe not other memories, maybe he would usually just take the memories, but because its his family, he trapped them there

If that's lake water, he added the memory there just like Mr. Crow added to the lake in The Mill

[rugged gorge]

The thing is if we know how old is the mill, like when it was built, that question would be easier to answer

[astral frost]

So why in that scene the Cubes turn into Corrupted souls when you touch them?

[rugged gorge]

Because if the mill already was created before the hotel, then it would make sense that mr crow collected the cubes and mr owl trapped then

And all the memories was compacted into one cube that’s why when you touch them you see their souls

[covert wyvern]

If the brains were saved, chances are the entire soul was extracted

[vague imp]

When i played the first time i thought what was happening there was when you clicked the soul would just come closer to the glass, but I don't know. I just don't think that proves that part of the soul is trapped in the cube. But even if it was, it wouldn't appear a corrupted soul, being that the corrupted soul and the cube are different things

[covert wyvern]

Wether that soul is one cube or multiple, the souls were then placed in the machines and owl did probably keep em around bc they're family? Maybe? Idk if I subscribe to the paradise = hotel theory

[vague imp]

I don't undertand your point, what do you believe its happening

[rugged gorge]

I think that the souls aren’t physical but psychological, they don’t make sense, it’s a vision that you have

[vague imp]

Wether that soul is one cube or multiple, the souls were then placed in the machines and owl did probably keep em around bc they're family? Maybe? Idk if I subscribe to the paradise = hotel theory
@covert wyvern I think theres much more to the Paradise/Hotel connection, but we need to wait to know

[covert wyvern]

Ye I've seen people talk about it, but I haven't drawn my own conclusions yet.

[astral frost]

I don't undertand your point, what do you believe its happening
@vague imp I think that the 5 Corrupted Souls are trapped in those cages (because in Birthday we can see that extra scene of their escape)

[rugged gorge]

What year happens the hotel game?

[vague imp]

I think that the souls aren’t physical but psychological, they don’t make sense, it’s a vision that you have
@rugged gorge I think the can affect the real world, meaning they're can be physical, but theres more to it

1893 i think

[covert wyvern]

Ye I have no clue how their escape came go be.

To be*

[rugged gorge]

@rugged gorge I think the can affect the real world, meaning they're can be physical, but theres more to it
@vague imp yeah they are psychological but with physical potential, like their appearance as corrupted souls don’t exist, just their acts

[astral frost]

@vague imp I think that the 5 Corrupted Souls are trapped in those cages (because in Birthday we can see that extra scene of their escape)
So there aren't only memories in those cages

[vague imp]

@vague imp yeah they are psychological but with physical potential, like their appearance as corrupted souls don’t exist, just their acts
@rugged gorge Idk, i think they're visible sometimes, like when Dale saw Bob

So there aren't only memories in those cages
@astral frost I think the souls are there also

Souls and cubes

[rugged gorge]

i really don’t know and we probably won’t have a answer

[astral frost]

And here it comes my theory about the link between a Corrupted Soul and his Negative Memory

@astral frost I think the souls are there also
@vague imp

Assuming that a Black Cube represents a negative/traumatic memory of a living being, and that a Corrupted Soul is specifically linked to that Cube/Memory, is it possible that Mr Owl used this link to trap the Guests Corrupted Souls into those machines in the Hotel? This connection would explain also Harvey's Box and Cabin ends, from my point of view: involved Corrupted Souls would drop their negative memory when they disappear.
This one

Maybe that isn't an important detail ahahaha

[rugged gorge]

But how in seasons the character is living and being corrupted

[covert wyvern]

Corrupted doesn't equal dead.

[rugged gorge]

ok

[violet quest]

The lake isn't actually rusty.
It's just mixed with really weird psychedelic hot chocholate mix

[vague imp]

But in that case, you're saying that if you have the black cube you can trap the corrupted soul ?

[astral frost]

The lake isn't actually rusty.
It's just mixed with really weird psychedelic hot chocholate mix
@violet quest agree

But in that case, you're saying that if you have the black cube you can trap the corrupted soul ?
@vague imp could it be possible?

There aren't other cases like this one in other games, I know

[covert wyvern]

I mean a cube can't really fight back.

[vague imp]

I think Mr. Crow would've trapped Laura, wouldn't he ?

[covert wyvern]

O hotel is definitely an important factor for the lore

[astral frost]

Nope

[rugged gorge]

I think that the regrets and negative memories can trap someone if he doesn’t have any white cubes

[covert wyvern]

I just try to pretend it doesn't exist

LMAO

[astral frost]

I think Mr. Crow would've trapped Laura, wouldn't he ?
@vague imp in that case he only extracted memories and let them floating in the Lake

But Mr Owl put his Guests' memories into cages

That is the clearest thing

But Mr Owl put his Guests' memories into cages

[covert wyvern]

I think the only reason he trapped them

Is bc he's nostalgic

[vague imp]

But Laura became corrupted, and Mr. Crow didn't seem happy about it, if he could, he'd probably trap her

[covert wyvern]

And wants to be w/ his family

The rest of the cubes are just yeeted into the lake

[vague imp]

Probably want to make them suffer

[rugged gorge]

I think it’s because they would not let he make his plans come true

And that’s where we are

[covert wyvern]

It could be that

He just created some sort of hell for them

[rugged gorge]

He just created some sort of hell for them
@covert wyvern he created hell just letting them with they negative memories and no good memories

This is the real hell in cube escape

[vague imp]

I think it’s because they would not let he make his plans come true
@rugged gorge This is BIG. I always think about it, where did the guests came from, what the reasons for them to be there (in the begining he says each of them has a reason), are there more of them

[rugged gorge]

And this kinda of hell creates a corrupted soul

[vague imp]

So many questions

[covert wyvern]

I suppose being stuck with only bed memories for eternity is pretty shitty

[rugged gorge]

Yeah

[covert wyvern]

I actually wrote a fanfic which holds my opinion on the afterlife in the RL experience.

[rugged gorge]

@rugged gorge This is BIG. I always think about it, where did the guests came from, what the reasons for them to be there (in the begining he says each of them has a reason), are the more of them
@vague imp that would explain why they escaped

Like if we had the answer about the hotel

[astral frost]

I think Mr Owl killed the Guests (aka his family) to get revenge and ALSO to trap them. He knew his siblings were evil

[rugged gorge]

Everything would be lot easier

[vague imp]

I think Mr Owl killed the Guests (aka his family) to get revenge and ALSO to trap them. He knew his siblings were evil
@astral frost I think it has to be more than that. Hotel happened so much after the Paradise

[astral frost]

I think Mr Owl killed the Guests (aka his family) to get revenge and ALSO to trap them. He knew his siblings were evil
And he didn't want another dangerous DemiGods around the Worls, besides Mr owl gang

[rugged gorge]

I think Mr Owl killed the Guests (aka his family) to get revenge and ALSO to trap them. He knew his siblings were evil
@astral frost but how they even got there, why they are in animal forms, idk it hurts my brain trying to explain hotel

[astral frost]

@astral frost I think it has to be more than that. Hotel happened so much after the Paradise
@vague imp I'm basing only on the infos we have now

[covert wyvern]

I do think part of owls plans were to eliminate the competition.

[vague imp]

@astral frost but how they even got there, why they are in animal forms, idk it hurts my brain trying to explain hotel
@rugged gorge And theres even other people like the Toad and the Bat that we don't where came from as well

[astral frost]

@astral frost but how they even got there, why they are in animal forms, idk it hurts my brain trying to explain hotel
@rugged gorge I think they achieved DemiGod form when Jakob became Mr Owl. In fact, it was a very powerful ritual (it turned a Human into GOD)

[covert wyvern]

If he's the only one with access to the elixir

That basically makes him master of life and death

[rugged gorge]

Like the ritual created the elixir for everyone in paradise

[astral frost]

I do think part of owls plans were to eliminate the competition.
@covert wyvern yep, the Guest are also evil personalities (see what happened in Paradise)

Like the ritual created the elixir for everyone in paradise
@rugged gorge I think that

That was the most powerful ritual

[rugged gorge]

But only he know the formula

[vague imp]

@rugged gorge I think they achieved DemiGod form when Jakob became Mr Owl. In fact, it was a very powerful ritual (it turned a Human into GOD)
@astral frost I don't like to think them as Gods, they were enlighten. I don't know the ritual could make 6 people enlighten

[astral frost]

@astral frost I don't like to think them as Gods, they were enlighten. I don't know if the ritual could make 6 people enlighten
@vague imp I'm sure about that, games explained us the Samsare circles in his forms

take the Samsara wheel in Cave

"People" with animal head are DemiGods

[rugged gorge]

Because his mother who fusioned with him created the formula and the rest of the family just got the elixir without knowing nothing about it

[astral frost]

they are very powerful

But there is only one God (represented by the ?)

Who is Mr Owl

[rugged gorge]

How even mr owl and mr crow meet each other

Why he tried to give the elixir formula to him

There’s something about them that won’t fit

[vague imp]

I think demigod gives that idea of a actual deity in the rusty lake universe, which i dont think there is

[covert wyvern]

The vanderboom brothers were alchemist s

And probably onto something

Owl found out and contacted ctow

Crow*

[vague imp]

About the elixir, we know that kills one and enlighten the other, what happened in paradise that got 6 people

Im not saying for sure, I just dont think we can just assume it got everyone enlighten

[rugged gorge]

So if the ritual was that strong, why mr owl needed the elixir in the cave

[astral frost]

I think demigod gives that idea of a actual deity in the rusty lake universe, which i dont think there is
@vague imp in Theatre, try to read the Sanskrit letters on the paintings

and look at this page

https://rusty-lake.fandom.com/wiki/Languages#:~:text=The games in the Rusty,from Buddhist and Hindu philosophy.

This is explained in various games

[rugged gorge]

About the elixir, we know that kills one and enlighten the other, what happened in paradise that got 6 people
@vague imp what if kills one person in exchange of literally everyone in the room?

[astral frost]

Rusty Lake Universe is based on those 6 stages of existence

[vague imp]

I know theres the sanskrit, but do you think there's a deity, a god, in their universe ?

[astral frost]

Yes

there are lots of proves

I'm sure about that

[vague imp]

@vague imp what if kills one person in exchange of literally everyone in the room?
@rugged gorge Idk

[astral frost]

@vague imp what if kills one person in exchange of literally everyone in the room?
@rugged gorge I think the original plan was to enlighten only Jakob, but the process involved the whole Eilander family

[rugged gorge]

Bye guys, it’s already to later here so I’m better go to sleep a little bit, it was good discussing about rusty lake games

[astral frost]

I think it was a powerful ritual because Jakob became God, not only a DemiGod

[rugged gorge]

bye bye

[astral frost]

Bye 🙂

[vague imp]

bye

I think it actually the opposite. I think they wanted to be enlightened, and tought he would die like his mother

@rugged gorge I think the original plan was to enlighten only Jakob, but the process involved the whole Eilander family
@astral frost

What are the proves ?

there are lots of proves
@astral frost

[astral frost]

What are the proves ?
@astral frost
@vague imp for the Paradise events or for the existence of Gods?

[vague imp]

Existence of a God

[astral frost]

ok wait a moment

Paradise book: it shows the 6 stages of existence. You never really die, you only reincarnate or "become enlightened"

Also the 6 paintings in Theatre (I don't have the images sorry)

They are described by Sanskrit words

Which are explained in this page

https://rusty-lake.fandom.com/wiki/Languages#:~:text=The games in the Rusty,from Buddhist and Hindu philosophy.
@astral frost

Theatre paintings

[vague imp]

I believe the sanskrit doesn't prove the existance of a God itself, thats what I'm saying. If being enlightened gives you godlike powers, thats one thing, but that theres a God deity I don't think so

Being enlighten helps you tap on some kind of power or something

[astral frost]

Samsara gods aren't like Christian God

it's something different

they are not invincible, but they are very powerful as you said

I think that Rusty Lake vision of Samsara and its stages is simplified

But it contains the basic concepts

such as the 6 stages of existence

[vague imp]

But thats what Im saying. It doesnt contain a deity. A person might be reborn in another stage of life, but they're just names to what theyre passing through. There no devine, overall deity in the universe of Rusty Lake

As far as we know at least

[astral frost]

Ok I agree with you

[covert wyvern]

Quick reminder to avoid religious talk where possible, of course these are theories so it's fine, but once you steer off topic and I catch you talking religion, you'll be muted

[astral frost]

From what we know, Mr Owl is the God. It means he's the most powerful living being in the Rusty Lake universe

ok @covert wyvern I was only talking about Rusty Lake vision of Samsara

I specified it

[covert wyvern]

I'm aware

I'm just reminding yoj.

YouZ

You**** it's getting late lol

[astral frost]

👍

not too late for the Lake ahahaha

[vague imp]

Even being so powerfull, he needs the elixir, as seen in The Cave

From what we know, Mr Owl is the God. It means he's the most powerful living being in the Rusty Lake universe
@astral frost

[astral frost]

Exactly

Even Mr Owl is not invincible

And we know that Mr Owl and Mr Crow need a full Elixir

Basing on that, we can assume that even the ritual that enlightened Jakob to God was enough powerful

neither the Elixir created by William

I think the Golden Cube, with Laura and Dale, is involved in this process

[vague imp]

I know that Mr Owl seems to be stronger than Mr Crow, but we can't really say that the ritual is stronger than the elixir

[astral frost]

I'm just saying that Jakob's ritual let him become God

[vague imp]

The ritual might have been bigger but the elixir might have been more refined

[astral frost]

which is superior to DemiGod

[vague imp]

Maybe he became stronger with something that happened later

[astral frost]

The ritual might have been bigger but the elixir might have been more refined
@vague imp but at the end we only have one God and lots of DemiGods (Hotel staff, the Guests)

[vague imp]

Just because his was a full ritual, doesn't mean that was the reason, idk

[astral frost]

Yes, I mean we surely know that Mr Owl is the God, or, if you prefer, the most powerful DemiGod. Based on that, I assumed that the ritual in Paradise was the most powerful never seen (also because it involved Caroline, who was the God/Owl before Jakob). But it's my speculation, I could be wrong

[vague imp]

Caroline was the Owl ? She used the mask but she was never enlighten

[astral frost]

The Elixir could be more refined, but it was created by Alchemists (who were "only" Humans, without any special power)

Caroline was the Owl ? She used the mask but she was never enlighten
@vague imp it isn't clearly shown, but why would she have worn that mask?

Now we could also discuss why Caroline let the Eilanders kill her

[vague imp]

They all have masks, the mask is a weird thing in paradise

[astral frost]

the animal masks in the end are clearly referred to the 5 Guests of Hotel

[vague imp]

It seems she was trying to save her son, but maybe theres more

[astral frost]

they are the same animals

[vague imp]

yes

[astral frost]

I have a theory about that

It seems she was trying to save her son, but maybe theres more
@vague imp

I think that, when she understood that her family would have killed Jakob, she sacrificed herself to let Jakob reach the enlightenment

Based on the Rule "One will find death, the other enlightenment"

[vague imp]

I don't know if she knew that back then. Is hard to know how and what she knew what she knew. But thats possible

[astral frost]

yes it's only my theory

[vague imp]

This rule was told to us by Mr Crow right ?

In roots

[astral frost]

yes I think so

and it appeared also in other games

[vague imp]

Actually, I think it was explicly said in cave

Idk

[astral frost]

you can also read in the books found in the various games

And it happened for the couples Aldous/William, James/The dog, Laura/Dale(in one of the endings)

[vague imp]

I have a theory that with James and The Dog was different, I think it always kills the first and enlightens the second, but if affects animals differently

When did it happen to Laura and Dale

[astral frost]

maybe in that case James created a weak elixir, which "only" gave immortality/ long life to the dog

James wasn't THE ALCHEMIST

like William

[vague imp]

He wasn't, but he followed the recipe. Maybe we might have missed the quantities, rookie mistake

[astral frost]

When did it happen to Laura and Dale
@vague imp one of the Paradox endings: Dale drinks the elixir and dies, so we can assume Laura reached enlightenment and became DemiGod(probably)

He wasn't, but he followed the recipe. Maybe we might have missed the quantities, rookie mistake
@vague imp possible

btw, it was a weaker elixir

[vague imp]

Oh, paradox is a huge lore problem, I don't think everything there is true

btw, it was a weaker elixir
@astral frost It was said in the game ?

[astral frost]

Oh, paradox is a huge lore problem, I don't think everything there is true
@vague imp in fact we still don't know which ending is canon ahahah

[vague imp]

I think the achievent ending with the golden cube was supposed to be the real one

He was likely in a loop until he managed to break and enter the elevator

[astral frost]

@astral frost It was said in the game ?
@vague imp no but we can assume that because the dog didn't turned into something other. We can also assume that James wasn't so skillfull as his Uncle William

[vague imp]

But maybe its because he was already an animal

[astral frost]

I think the achievent ending with the golden cube was supposed to be the real one
@vague imp it could be possible but we still haven't a sequel of Dale and Laura' s story

[vague imp]

So he just became imortal

[astral frost]

it could be another possibility

btw, he's an immortal dog

and Mr Crow uses his poop to make an incomplete elixir

[vague imp]

Why incomplete

[astral frost]

Mr Owl says that in Cave

"-Dale’s journey is about to start. You have to gather the memories. We need for our future, the full Elixir"

so it imply that they don't have the full elixir

and they need it

[vague imp]

I think no one has it, maybe they need the golden cube and Dale to make it

[astral frost]

exactly

[vague imp]

Even the one Mr Crow made

[astral frost]

but we still don't know how the Golden Cubes really works

we only know that it's linked to the full elixir

and it's linked to the future

[vague imp]

The key to the future

Theres so much we dont know

[astral frost]

do you know if devs made new announcements?

about new games

[vague imp]

I dont want to feed this hope, but I think maybe the achievements on the Cube Escape Collection might have some little insight into the future

Today is the last day of Q3 2020, its supposed to be the launch of the collection

[astral frost]

oh ok

[vague imp]

But they havent said anything

[astral frost]

They are late

as always XD

I hope they will include old games remakes in that collection

[covert wyvern]

Maybe something came up with develop

Development*

Some of the revamped cube escape games are already out on the app stores tho!

[astral frost]

because certainly they didn't think about current lore of Rusty Lake Universe when they created The Lake or Seasons

[vague imp]

I think they'll send an email today either way

They apperently wont remake anything. The collection is just a steam version with achievements because flash will be terminated at the end of the year

[astral frost]

so we won't have our answes 😦

[vague imp]

I dont think they're adding any lore other than maybe an achievement

[covert wyvern]

There's actually some new bits in the achievements!

[astral frost]

certainly not adding lore

[covert wyvern]

But ye they're just remakes

They won't he adding any lore on to them.

[astral frost]

maybe reshape

[vague imp]

Sadly no, but they're so great at making many games, last year there was nothing and this year there was just The White Door. But all the other games where made in a span of 3 years

All these games and they're 5 years old, thats crazy

[astral frost]

Wow

The White Door is their masterpiece, I think

[covert wyvern]

You should keep in mind that flash player is being discontinued.

[astral frost]

with all the ARG

[covert wyvern]

The switch to an entirely new programming environment is quite something

Also reworking all previous games.

[astral frost]

you're right

[covert wyvern]

Also this isn't really theories anymore, and this conversation Should be moved to #🩸｜general-chat

[astral frost]

no problem, I'm going to sleep now ahaahaha

[vague imp]

Yes, thats why theyre giving it the attention it deserves. Thats why im buying the collection even with them free on mobile

Yes sorry

[astral frost]

bye guys

[vague imp]

Bye

[astral frost]

🙂

[hazy edge]

I dont understand the secret Ending of samsara room

Someone has a Theory or does?

[civic valley]

tjek out "rusty lake explained" on youtube

[covert wyvern]

Ye you're being reborn.

[hazy edge]

Ye but in the normal Ending too...

[azure bay]

I dont understand the secret Ending of samsara room
@hazy edge I think that William just peeps his own future

Maybe just like Rabbit's soul peeps his death in the past back in Hotel

Or like in Seasons we as Laura can observe herself outside the window

All of these can probably be interpreted in another way though

Many don't accept here the concepts of time travel & changing the past

[astral frost]

That ending shows again that William was reborn as Laura

There are some things in all the games which shouldn't be puzzled over

Some things are just "game tricks" which allow the player to get some objects in funny/creepy/imaginative way

For example, I think that all the theories about ""The Hand"" which appears in many games are useless

Other things are metaphorical

So the fact that in Samsara Room you play as William and you see Laura on the other part of the window doesn't prove that William isn't Laura

[covert wyvern]

I mean doesn't he straight up go "is that .. me"

LMAO

[rich crest]

But I thought that Samsara was the proof that William is Laura

[covert wyvern]

it is.

[hollow comet]

that was established in Roots

[north pasture]

HEY QUESTION

no never mind I can’t read

I was gonna say ‘what would happen if LAURA drank the green vial?’ but I forgot that is ✨kills you✨ so she’d just ✨die✨

I DO WANNA KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF LAURA AND DALE DRANK THE GREEN VIAL AT THE SAME TIME

Does it cancel out? Do they both die? Does it break the prophecy? Does it even DO anything?

OH WAIT THE BROTHERS DRJNK IT AT THE SAME TIME DONT THEY

oh I forgot that

but idk if it’s different or not due to Paradox Rules

[hollow comet]

endgame intensifies

[covert wyvern]

One would find death, the other enlightenment ;)

[astral frost]

One would find death, the other enlightenment ;)
My theory is: even if we assume that this rule works without an "order" (so the first or the second person could die) it would be safer to let the "expendable" person drink first (just to be sure of not dying).

Otherwise, if the first drinker would always die, the answer would be obvious: you reach enlightenment bt drinking after another person

[polar warren]

Well, James gave the elixir to the dog before drinking it himself

[astral frost]

James wasn't aware of all the elixir stuff

He just found a recipe and tried to create the elixir

I also think that he created a very weak version of it

Because the dog didn't reach enlightenment but only immortality(or at least a longer life)

[covert wyvern]

It also probably just works differently on animals.

[undone sun]

or the dose is way too little , he only gave it a drop

[astral frost]

It also probably just works differently on animals.
@covert wyvern i don't think so, cause Animal is one of the 6 existence stages

So it would work at the same way on every living being

[covert wyvern]

Eh, perhaps.

[astral frost]

or the dose is way too little , he only gave it a drop
This also could be a reason

[runic atlas]

People, Rose is the woman and Laura is the baby when we end Samsara Room?

[pure rose]

Yes, indeed

[polar warren]

Could have Laura gotten depressed cause she had Albert's brain :P

[covert wyvern]

I think a family sacrifice and being reincarnated does that to you

Im sure Alberts brain didn't help Tho lol

[polar warren]

She picked up his line "there will be blood"

[covert wyvern]

You know what would be hilarious,

Please take this "theory" with a grain of salt

But laura, albert, and William all fight over who gets to control the body each day

[hollow comet]

So I'm guessing it's Albert in autumn because 'he' ||kills Harvey||, William in winter because he does all the work, setting up the juice mixer beam, and Laura in spring because she's pretty basic imo and nothing much of significance happens in spring

that still leaves summer

there's a 4th soul

[vague imp]

Maybe Laura is at spring

Summer**

[polar warren]

But laura, albert, and William all fight over who gets to control the body each day
mom said its my turn to find the cube

[covert wyvern]

Yes.

[polar warren]

William: ur mom is my nephews daughter

[hollow comet]

albert is laura's grandad

[polar warren]

Oh wait... Mary isn't Aldous' daughter god dang it

[astral frost]

Why should Albert's brain influence Laura?

[covert wyvern]

It shouldn't

It's just a very out there wild take

We have no evidence pointing towards it at all

[cinder hemlock]

OK so

I know this is late and we all know this by now

But Jakob was born out of a fricking bird

[solid haven]

What do you mean?

[astral frost]

Maybe 😂

If we suppose that Caroline was already Mrs Owl when Jakob was born

Btw it seems that God and the Demigods can switch their Animal-headed form to the Human ones

[astral frost]

Hey guys

A little question about Samsara wheel

What do you think about Naraka stage? It's the one we've never seen in any game

The one represented by trees in the wheel

Do you think that being in that stage means you are one of the trees under the lake?

[hollow comet]

Although /narak/ literally means hell, the word's usage in RL implies purgatory instead.
The picture likely depicts the forest inside rusty lake. And seeing as there are other souls besides ||the Eilanders|| inside the lake, I think all corrupted souls have to/are made to live inside the lake-
after which, presumably, they move on to another stage, or possibly revert to a previous stage, like ||Laura|| did, though I think she was an exception.

[hollow comet]

replaying Cave and saw this

there's both a black and white cube below Laura, with a single line passing through them, pointing to the golden cube

based on the diagram, I think whether on not Laura remains corrupted or reverts herself back to the human state will have no effect on the outcome

so it's kind of like a predetermined future

since Laura time travelled to reverse her corruption, it's reasonable to say that the self-consistency principle applies in the RL universe

[astral frost]

Does the blue cube really let you changing the past?
I'm skeptical about this, we've seen that cube in Seasons and Birthday, and we were playing and changing memories there. So could the blue cube help you to change only a memory? Could this be the meaning of "Balance the substance of your past lives" (as Mr Rabbit says in Birthday, in order to escape his Corrupted Soul state)?

[hollow comet]

yes, the blue cube lets you change the past; and the past is changed through memories.
As for 'balance the substance of your past lives', I think it specifically refers to the act of altering the past in a previous stage of the wheel of life.
For example, Mr Rabbit and Laura changed their human pasts while they were corrupted souls.
Dale doesn't have any mentioned 'past lives', he doesn't balance any substance because he simply alters the timeline of his own childhood.

[astral frost]

I think that "changing the past" in Cube Escape games isn't a "time travel", but more likely a revival of a specifical memory in order to produce effects on that specifical memory(such as the memories re-lived by Laura in Seasons and by Dale in many games). From what we know, Corrupted Souls need this process to escape their state (but, maybe, there could be another reasons).

So I agree with you 😀 but I also think that it's impossible to literally change the past

[azure bay]

@astral frost but in Seasons we changed not only specific memories but all their continuity

planting a new seed resulted in cactus growing all across 17 years

[covert wyvern]

please try to avoid pinging people that are offline // not part of the conversation (Edds message was sent two days ago).

[azure bay]

sry I just want to continue that conversation

[covert wyvern]

you can do that without the ping 😄

[vague imp]

Pinging people like that can be very rude for them actually.

[azure bay]

ok, I got it. thx for telling

[astral frost]

No rudeness detected guys ahahahah

[covert wyvern]

If you don't mind people pinging you, that's fine too!

But the server rule is quite simple; don't ping unless you got permission.

[astral frost]

Understood

Answering to nowherecrafter: we changed multiple memories, without involving time travels or different timelines, as someone often discuss about Rusty Lake

We also must admit that Season was the first game: devs probably hadn't created the whole plot yet

But I think there is no element which can lead us to a "time travel theory" about what happened to Dale or Laura

[worn crescent]

Paradise
Roots
Hotel
Arles
birthday
seasons(Spring)
the lake
harvey's box
seasons(Summer)
seasons(Fall)
Case 23(Chapter 1)
The mill
case 23(Chapter 2, 3 and 4)
Seasons(Winter)
Theater?

[vague imp]

Birthday and Theater are seen as memories by Dale. And remember that Hotel happens during Roots.

[worn crescent]

yea

if i play hotel before roots won't change anything

[vague imp]

Just saying. In making a timeline, you have to remember that

[worn crescent]

yeah

OH

Paradise
Roots
Samsara Room
Hotel
Arles
birthday
seasons(Spring)
the lake
harvey's box
seasons(Summer)
seasons(Fall)
Case 23(Chapter 1)
The White Door
The mill
case 23(Chapter 2, 3 and 4)
Seasons(Winter)
Theater?

[vague imp]

Oh, theres Samsara Room as well

[covert wyvern]

Samsara would be placed after roots.

[vague imp]

Theatre is in 1971, so after Case 23 (1)

And The White Door is not really after Seasons. I think it would fit after Case 23

[worn crescent]

hmm

[vague imp]

Chronological order is a nightmare

[worn crescent]

and paradox?

[covert wyvern]

Chronological order is a nightmare

[worn crescent]

yea, when we finish i want a free t-shirt🤡

[covert wyvern]

When you consider there's multiple timelines

[worn crescent]

pls dont mention this shi

[vague imp]

Paradox would be in 1972

[covert wyvern]

It's a personal theory, mind you

I'm planning on building one soon with the release of the collection.

[vague imp]

I think is possible, hard not to see multiple timelines

[covert wyvern]

Changed fate, it's impossible to escape lol

[worn crescent]

i just mention chronological order to play with my friend, now im bulding one

[covert wyvern]

That's fair!

[worn crescent]

yeah....

[vague imp]

It's good to have written down for new games as well

So you don't get too lost

I get all the time

[astral frost]

I think having multiple timelines would justify too many plot errors (it happened in many series) 😬

[ivory girder]

what do u guys think about mr crow and dale's grandfather? they have too many similarities in appearance and their voices

[astral frost]

Yes they're very similar

But we also must remember that in Birthday we're playing memories which were extracted from Dale

[ivory girder]

if they are really the same person that will be interesting

yeah i was thinking that too

[astral frost]

So I wouldn't be surprised if that memory was modified

[ivory girder]

if mr crow is really dale's grandfather, that's probably the reason why mr rabbit kills dale's family for revenge

but when dale met mr crow in case 23 he didn't seem to know him

so idk

[astral frost]

Dale almost never talk in the games ahahahah

Especially in the oldest ones

[ivory girder]

the discription of chapter 4 makes me kinda think that he didn't know mr crow

[astral frost]

Aaah I remember

He refers to Mr Crow with something like "the old crow"

[ivory girder]

let me check

[astral frost]

Okk

[ivory girder]

"silently the old crow and sailed to the middle of the lake. without a word, the crow left me, wondering what to do"

that's the whole discription

[astral frost]

I think the memory in birthday was modified

[ivory girder]

yeah

[astral frost]

When we played memories in other games, not everything matched with how the events really happened

For example, the house we see in Seasons is different from the "real one"(seen in Case 23, Chapter 1)

And if Theatre events really happened, surely there wasn't an elevator behind the stage

[ivory girder]

yeah birthday and theatre arr just memories

[astral frost]

(I think Dale really went to that Theatre at a certain point of his life, but things went differently, as we saw in The White Door)

So Aldous could have appeared in Birthday memory because of his will, or because of the influence of the Lake

We know nothing lol

Even Dale is more complex than we thought

Especially after we found the charts about his possible mental instability in Paradox

[ivory girder]

vandermeer and vanderboom

too similar

[astral frost]

Yes I know

Btw I think we have more to discover about Dale

Also, Vandermeer means "From the Lake"

There's something we still don't know about Dale's family

I hope we'll discover more about him

[ivory girder]

what do u think about what will happen when dale reaches the hotel?

[astral frost]

I still don't have a clear idea about what happened in Paradox, especially about why there are multiple endings

Assuming the Elevator finale is the "right one", Dale could become the new God of the Lake

Taking the place of Mr Owl

[covert wyvern]

that's the idea.

[astral frost]

Mr Owl often refers to Dale as "the chosen one"

[ivory girder]

yeah but why?

[astral frost]

But I still can't understand why

Exactly

[covert wyvern]

or he dies and laura takes his place.

:0

[ivory girder]

oh.

[covert wyvern]

I don't want to look too much into his name

but

Vandermeer does literally mean

from the lake

on name alone he has enough reason to be the so called chosen one

[ivory girder]

yeah i think dale's family must have some kind of relation to the lake but idk what it is

and also i don't understand harvey's box

it happened in 1969 when seasons spring had already happened

why was harvey in the box?

[covert wyvern]

I assume laura takes harvey with her to Rusty Lake.

[ivory girder]

so the ending?

[covert wyvern]

I can only speculate that may be harvey trying to cure laura from her corrupted soul.

[ivory girder]

and in the lake we didn't see the box but in case 23 there was

[astral frost]

So confusing ahahahah

[ivory girder]

and there's a pigeon which kinda looks like mr owl's grandmother corrupted soul

so i think that corrupted soul is mrs pigeon

[astral frost]

Because of the wings?

[ivory girder]

yeah

but her corrupted soul didn't look like that in hotel so wtf

it's so confusing

[astral frost]

They're old games

Probably devs still hadn't clear ideas

That's the most problematic point

[ivory girder]

yeah 😂

i think in the new update something new will happen

in harvey's box

[astral frost]

Skeptical about this

Even if I'd really hope that

:(

[ivory girder]

and another thing that there's a harvey acheivement in paradise where u could find him/her in somewhere i don't remember

but paradise happened before hotel

so wtf

[astral frost]

Maybe it's just a cameo

[ivory girder]

we could also see harvey in roots too

roots also happened before hotel

[covert wyvern]

I don't like hotel.

and this is exactly why

it's screws with so much of the timelinelmao

[ivory girder]

yeah lol

[astral frost]

I also remember one of the Roots levels where timeline is wrong

It was about James

When he discovered the Alchemists lab

And we were able to see the guest in the Hotel trough the window

Even if Hotel events happened years later

Even if for Harvey cameo in Roots

[ivory girder]

or harvey drinks the elixir

[covert wyvern]

maybe the hotel gets guests more often,

but owl only decided to kill them off later

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vague imp]

i would want do eat my hotel guests

[astral frost]

He moved from Demigod form to Animal form in 1894, but we see that scene in Roots before that year

but owl only decided to kill them off later
@covert wyvern but Hotel introduction clearly says that it's 1894

[hollow comet]

tbf in the James level we only see their statues, not the hybrids themselves

[ivory girder]

but if harvey really drank the elixir and became the harvey in hotel what about the dog in roots?

[vague imp]

no we see them in the hotel

[astral frost]

tbf in the James level we only see their statues, not the hybrids themselves
@hollow comet also their shadows

[vague imp]

staring out the windows..XD

[astral frost]

Exactly

[ivory girder]

@covert wyvern but Hotel introduction clearly says that it's 1894
@astral frost the first scene said "rusty lake 1893"

[astral frost]

Right, sorry

But James died many years before

[vague imp]

uh actually James was alive during that year

we literally see him sitting there..XD

[ivory girder]

idk man it's so messed up

[astral frost]

Wait

[hollow comet]

I haven't noticed any major flaw in the timeline yet tbh

[vague imp]

There's many flaws ,dfblmd this is so confusing

my brain hurts

[ivory girder]

the harvey thing i said before is kinda confusing

[astral frost]

It's 1870 there

[ivory girder]

oh

[hollow comet]

if Harvey was a hybrid in Hotel doesn't that mean he must've been a parrot before?

[astral frost]

Is it an error?

Or just an Hotel cameo?

if Harvey was a hybrid in Hotel doesn't that mean he must've been a parrot before?
@hollow comet you're right

[hollow comet]

so the Roots appearance

[ivory girder]

so harvey drank the elixir and became the hybrid?

[hollow comet]

he should've been born as a parrot around the same time as Paradise and later given the elixir

[ivory girder]

what about the dog?

[hollow comet]

why he transformed and James' dog didn't, I have no clue

[astral frost]

what about the dog?
@ivory girder about this, maybe James created a less powerful elixir

He wasn't an Alchemist after all

[hollow comet]

could've been Mr Owl's beam

[astral frost]

So the Dog reached only eternal life, not enlightenment

[ivory girder]

he should've been born as a parrot around the same time as Roots and later given the elixir
@hollow comet there's an acheivement in paradise so he was in rusty lake since paradise

[hollow comet]

I meant to say Paradise, not Roots lmao

corrected

[ivory girder]

when did paradise happen though i forgot

[hollow comet]

1796 iirc

[ivory girder]

that was 97 years before hotel happened

lol

and more than 50 years before roots happened

[astral frost]

Maybe it was just a cameo, but, as QuantumCrow said, Samsara wheel implies you always exist in various forms

[ivory girder]

yeah

[astral frost]

So it's possible Harvey existed in his Animal form in 1796

[ivory girder]

but i still don't understand harvey's box

😂

[astral frost]

Harvey's box happens in 2 different years

[ivory girder]

what

really

[astral frost]

Look at the wholes in the box

First you see Laura's room

Then the Cabin

Try to replay it

[hollow comet]

two years?

[ivory girder]

yeah wtf

[hollow comet]

didn't Laura travel to the Lake some time after spring in Seasons?

I think it's just one trip

The wiki says 1969

[ivory girder]

after spring

not summer dude

😂

but why was harvey in the box and why was harvey back in seasons summer in the cage and why in the lake we didn't see the box

i have so many question for that game

who is that corrupted soul

dhkakshdjskksk

[hollow comet]

box must've been left in the boat

[vague imp]

We see box in Case 23

[hollow comet]

[ivory girder]

that pigeon must be mrs pigeon's corrupted soul right?

[hollow comet]

mrs pigeon died in 1893

[ivory girder]

idk

[hollow comet]

it was her corrupted soul after that

[astral frost]

Seasons should be taken with a grain

They're memories

Different by reality

[vague imp]

Tbh i think that was Mrs.Pigeon's spirit

[ivory girder]

i mean that but i was typing too fast

😅

but harvey was in that box because he was sent to rusty lake right?

so who sent and received the box?

[astral frost]

Laura brought the box with her

[ivory girder]

that corrupted soul in the end?

[astral frost]

Mmmmh

[ivory girder]

and where's laura?

was she attacked like in the lake?

so that corrupted soul also attacked harvey?

[vague imp]

im guessing yah

[ivory girder]

so wtf is summer 1971

they were still alive

[astral frost]

We certainly know that Laura went to the Lake and came back

[ivory girder]

hmmmm

[vague imp]

They were attacked the lake

never said they died

[ivory girder]

but i think harvey is in the box is like laura sent it to someone else in rusty lake

if she really brought harvey with her why in the box?

or because of it's rusty lake?

[vague imp]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ivory girder]

that's what i don't understand

it messed up the timeline

[vague imp]

ah don't add too much logic into this game

it will hurt ur brain

[ivory girder]

i know that i have been followed since 2018

so i know it will hurt our brain if we think it logically

it's just a game

[vague imp]

tbh it hurts my brain in general XD

[ivory girder]

😂

its timeline is so fricking confusing

[covert wyvern]

So what could reubtmoce mean, any guesses?

[glass cobalt]

guys, idk about you. but just as i finished theatre (or harvey's box, idk) there was a little series of numbers that flashed up: a1 b7 c1, does that sound familiar to you?

[covert wyvern]

that's used in case23.

[glass cobalt]

ahh

and what does it stand for?

[covert wyvern]

|| it's for the TV in dales office. ||

[glass cobalt]

ahh, damn. didnt even realize it

ty ^^

[vague imp]

@covert wyvern for me , this js code for some game

This was my first shot after i unlocked this achivememt

And im still interested with all symbols we have

After completing whole game with 100%

[hollow comet]

guys, idk about you. but just as i finished theatre (or harvey's box, idk) there was a little series of numbers that flashed up: a1 b7 c1, does that sound familiar to you?
Wait, what game is this?

[vague imp]

Theatre

After you finish i think

[hollow comet]

I didn't notice it at all lmao

[covert wyvern]

maybe we'll ride the cubemetro in an upcoming day.

[vague imp]

Maybe in some new RL production

[covert wyvern]

haha right.

[vague imp]

We gonna see ....

Btw , this last achivement

Is sick.

My god.

[covert wyvern]

haha im just trying to decipher the numbers n letters.

[vague imp]

IHBG?

[covert wyvern]

huh? sorry.

[vague imp]

Alphabet

Cause 9 is I 8 is H

Maybe white cube code?

[covert wyvern]

O like that./

I think the numbers stand for a symbol

in the cube escape collection.

[vague imp]

That is solid shot too

But where symbols go?

I though about paradox actually

[covert wyvern]

me too

but the safe requires 5 symbols.

[vague imp]

Yep

And we have 9

And 4

[delicate terrace]

samsara room requires 4

[covert wyvern]

Yes but does not have the 8th symbol.

[delicate terrace]

ah too bad

[undone sun]

We´ve tested in all safes from the 9 games , number and simbolwise , and non of them does nothing

Neither paradox , TWD , roots , paradise nor hotel

Im disappointed that its useless but hyped bc it means a future project (possibly)

[astral frost]

Rip

[zenith meteor]

Im disappointed that its useless but hyped bc it means a future project (possibly)
@undone sun well, the name of the achievement IS "the story continues"

So the chances of being for a future project are high

[alpine atlas]

theory: harvey is the real main character

[zenith meteor]

theory: harvey is the real main character
@alpine atlas that actually makes a lot of sense, he is the one that appears in most games

[half dagger]

harvey was the first immortal caroline eilander wants what he has 😏

[fluid adder]

if she only was still alive...

[vague imp]

Theory: Emma Vanderboom was reincarnated into Dale Vandermeer.
Evidence: December 18th, 1930, Dale Vandermeer is born. Emma Vandermeer is able to send the message to her son, thus she has no more "unfinished business" left behind, and is either reincarnated, or passes on to the afterlife, the same day Dale is born.
Possible Weaknesses: Why would Emma Vandermeer be reincarnated if it took 10 sacrifices for William to be reborn as Laura.
Counterargument: The process used to reincarnate William was selective, and perhaps the elixir prohibited him from being reincarnated normally.

[vague imp]

Interesting 🤔

Its going to take me a while to get this whole story straight

[vague imp]

Frank receives the message in Winter 1930, so not necessarily the same day Dale was born. Also, is it said somewhere that you only "passes to the afterlife" after you have no unfinished businesses? I know that's sometimes a thing in ghosts stories, but not necessarily in Rusty Lake. I had never thought about both things happening in Winter of the same year, and there might be something, but I think this theory doesn't have much to support it right now.

[tight geyser]

well, an interesting theory and you prove it, but still, it's hard to believe it. although who knows

[ivory girder]

random theory: the pigeon who helped harvey in harvey's box is not mrs pigeon, it's the young bird in the electric thing in mrs pigeon room in hotel

then it would make more sense

[hollow comet]

it's definitely not Mr Pigeon

but yeah, the young bird was also a hybrid, so this makes sense, especially because they owed Harvey a favour

[undone sun]

Its 71 years apart tho

[hollow comet]

At the time of Paradox, Mr Owl has been alive for 197 years, and Mr Crow for 173. The elixir gives longevity, apart from making the person a hybrid, of course.

[undone sun]

So that guy is inmortal?

[hollow comet]

no, hybrids simply have longer life, they are not immortal. In Cave, we see Mr Owl and Mr Crow have both grown very weak, owing to not having drunk the elixir for a while (presumably). They have also aged in their human forms since they became hybrids.

[vague imp]

if you think about it, it makes sense...

[vague imp]

They were both alive at the same time, then Mr. Deer died in 1893, and Samuel in 1904. The visual similarities are probably just references...

[ivory girder]

mr deer was mr owl's father right?

anyways do u guys have any theory what will happen when dale reaches the hotel?

i'm kinda curious about this

[alpine atlas]

what do you mean?

[ivory girder]

i mean that all we see at the ending in a lot of games is dale is in an elevator and the elevator leads to hotel

[alpine atlas]

i think one of the elevator goes to the room where they make the golden cube right, so when he gets to hotel hes gonna go back in time or something

[ivory girder]

that's the bottom of the lake but after that he went up to reach the hotel

[vague imp]

I just completed rusty lake paradise and the story makes a lot more sense to me know.

Was Jacob/Jakob (don't know the correct spelling) sacrificed in order for the elixir to work?
I'm confused because his mum mistakenly sacrificed herself where it was supposed to me jacob? Did the finalising of the elixir require 2 people to be sacrificed?

[covert wyvern]

your last take would be the one I believe in.

"one must die, while the other is enlightened."

Or something like that.

[vague imp]

So I'm assuming Caroline died and Jacob was enlightened? By enlightened I mean turning into a hybrid?

[covert wyvern]

yes.

[vague imp]

Seems so or Caroline is inside Jacob's soul

like they fused or smth

[covert wyvern]

Unlikely; by that route william should be fused with aldous no

[vague imp]

but they both showed up in Paradox together..XD

like they fused or smth
@vague imp

Yeah I saw this on wiki which is why I'm confused

maybe they can choose do fuse or not fuse

[hollow comet]

I think they fused

[covert wyvern]

Eh I think that mask was merely a throwback.

[vague imp]

If they fuse then it defeats the purpose of the pairings for the elixir :/

[hollow comet]

Jakob didn't use the elixir to ascend

[vague imp]

i mean he died lol sometimes souls fuse..XD

and they are mother n son, so there's a family bond drawing them together [Caroline seemingly was really fond of Jacob being her firstborn]

i just noticed it's Jakob not Jacob..that's such a Estonian name i-

but anyways taken from the wiki on Caroline
" As the world around him goes red, he is again alone with his mother's Soul. The elements of the Elixir surround them, the two ascend together as Mr. Owl."
"the two ascend together as Mr. Owl."

so they likely fused

[covert wyvern]

O huh

would you look at thayt

LMAO

god that's a whole can of worms.

[vague imp]

oh worm

Well explained @vague imp

wait no!This has been my TED talk

and ty

This game is based entirely of twin peaks, even the characters names are the same. So if I watch twin peaks then I'll know exactly what's going on here lol

lmao

[foggy phoenix]

y’all i was reading the older messages and holy . the souls in seasons are DIFFERENT? i thought they were all laura since she sees herself in the moon 😮

[ivory girder]

what

[strong elk]

is there a summary of what is considered to be "verified" either by proof or by common agreement?

[hollow comet]

pretty much the whole wikia

[strong elk]

I'd suggest to put a link to it in the topic, then

[covert wyvern]

No.

The wiki is editable by anyone and not a 100% the truth.

The only things that are verified and truth are the things we see in the games

Anything else is simply speculation.

I'll admit that some theories obviously have more ground to stand on than others. But they're still that; theories.

[hollow comet]

I've browsed it quite a lot, they do back up most things with in-game evidence, I didn't find much speculation in the articles about main characters, places and such

of course, 'common agreement' is not the same as the true story

[covert wyvern]

Exactly ;)

Like don't get me wrong some things are very obvious and easy to figure out, others, not so much

[astral frost]

*Personal theory about the whole reincarnation thing in Rusty Lake universe"

We've seen different types of "reincarnation" in all the games: assuming there are equal
chances to pass trough every stage of the Samsara Wheel (and we do not have any evidence about that),
we must admit we've seen few types of transformations.
More specifically:

When you die for any reason(homicide) or when your memories are extracted, you become a Corrupted Soul. This happens to Caroline, William, Laura, Bob, the Eilanders in the Hotel, Dale... In order to escape this state, you have to "Balance the substance of your past lives" or "Face your demons": that's a very cryptical sentence, and all those characters tried to do it by doing different things, for example by reliving memories and "fixing them" (I think you can't change the past, but only change the way you lived in your memory: that's the meaning of "facing your demons", isn't it? 🙂 ). Sometimes they succedeed, sometimes not.
By the way you need to be determined to escape the Corrupted Soul stage, it doesn't seem like a natural thing.
Despite this, we need to consider William's reincarnation: he was reborn into Laura by driving the Vanderboom family to make 10 sacrifices, so probably "facing demons" wasn't enough in that case (that's a point we have to deepen).

Reincarnation to an higher state of consciousness is different stuff.
I think Elixir of Life And Death isn't only a magical drink, in fact we've seen it in different forms (not only phisycal) through the games.
First, there's the classic form, the one which Aldous and William created and let Aldous to enlighten to Demigod form.
Second, there's the sacrifice form, which Caroline used to save her son's life and let Jakob become God (probably taking the place of his mother).This process involved also the Eilanders, letting them reaching the much desidered enlightenment.
Finally, there's what I consider the enlighenment process Mr Owl thought for Dale. Let's think about that: in the end of Paradise, Jakob descended into the depths of the Lake and went back to the surface, becoming God. Dale likewise descended and ascended, starting from the cabin in the end of Case 23, and reaching the Hotel. I personally think that the Golden Cube formula, which involves Dale, Laura, Laura's memories and the Blue Cube is another type of Elixir, maybe the most powerful one. We have no evidence about that, but we know from Cave that Mr Owl and Mr Crow are looking for the definitive one.

In conclusion, we must contextualize the various types of transformations and reincarnations to understand how Samsara Wheel really works in Rusty Lake universe.
This is a personal theory, I think we don't have enough infos right now to create a definitive description of the events.
Feel free to discuss this, possibly in its merits, point by point.

[azure bay]

@astral frostI'm afraid the wheel stages cannot be regarded as equal in any way. Yeah, there are some ways to change the state & death is not really riquired for some cases.

Originally, in Indian mythology the thing that defines the form you will be reborn in is karma. Maybe the rebirth conditions shown by the games could be correlated with it, but not everything is so clear. For example, there are some evidences that a form to be reborn in can be given from outside. If you look closely to a secret birthday scene you may notice for a second Mr. Owl's silhouette raising his hands & standing by Harvey's azura body. Then we have a light beam hitting the sky & Harvey's rebirth as an anymal bird. As the other example we can take the Lake that was asked for the enlightenment by Eilanders & it is highly probable to grant it them (rather than some magic universe law). In fact, it's not really clear whether the Lake is refered by the samsara wheel as a place or a creature.

[astral frost]

Yes, the stages are different, I know. I was just discussing if there's the same probability to reborn in any stage, and evidently, as you also said, there are many different situtations to consider

I agree with you on the Lake point, we still don't know why "it desires fresh memories" and its role could be fundamental

And also Harvey reincarnation is "strange": he killed the Guests after all. Why should his karma be "great"?

[azure bay]

I'm not sure if the karma system is fully applicable here. Once again, his new form seems to be presicely picked by Mr. Owl. But, if you will, going from a demi-god to just an animal is quite a demotion here.

[astral frost]

Totally

We also have to deepen many things happened in Paradox

For example, Laura says that "it all started with Harvey's egg"

And Dale and Laura are not as simple as they seemed in the first games

[azure bay]

I think we have enough info about Dale since Paradox, but you are totally right about Laura. I'm sure they are teasing a game about her childhood

[vague imp]

I think Young Laura character will be shown for us pretty soon

Specially after cave achivement.

[azure bay]

For example, Laura says that "it all started with Harvey's egg"
@astral frost her words I interpret in a way that her fall into corruption (thus the whole Dale's arc) started with eating (or trying to eat) that egg

[astral frost]

I think we have enough info about Dale since Paradox, but you are totally right about Laura. I'm sure they are teasing a game about her childhood
@azure bay think about the folder in Paradox. It says Dale had mental ilness, a thing we have never considered first, when we looked at him just as a simple detective. Also, in The White Door it seems he knew more thing than we imagined: when Bob becomes Corrupted, Dale says "I need your memory". Does it imply Dale is a deeper character?

@astral frost her words I interpret in a way that her fall into corruption (thus the whole Dale's arc) started with eating (or trying to eat) that egg
@azure bay Why Harvey's egg should have triggered her corruption? We almost know nothing about him

[azure bay]

not sure. I don't expect a game about Dale's mental conditions, but these illnesses are expected knowing his tragic story.

Now about the egg. One of my 1st thoughts back when I played Seasons 1st time is her slowly going mad. A normal person would not eat that kind of thing (unless he is a student with no money, but she is a quite too old for that)

[astral frost]

AHAHAHAHA

Remember Season events are just memories, extracted and modified

In case 23 we can see that Laura lived in a different house

[azure bay]

not quite. The room from Seasons exists(ed)

It's all complicated

She clearly would not live in a single room with no door

& we can blame inaccuracy of memories here

though Case 23 seems to be real, but we still miss a door in some locations

in the Collection trailer all games are refered to as memories

but I'm not sure if we need to believe that

[astral frost]

I think we should consider memories the games where it's specified

Like Seasons,Arles,Harvey's box, Birthday, Theatre

[azure bay]

Harvey's box is not

[astral frost]

Yep

wait a moment

[azure bay]

"1969"
"Where am I going?"

[astral frost]

oh right

btw I think we can consider Case 23 as a pretty accurate description of the events

as it's crossed with the White Door point of view

[azure bay]

I think we should consider memories the games where it's specified
@astral frost that's a consensus, but we can't be sure what the original idea really is

TWD could be also altered by the lake crew

at least the dreams part

[astral frost]

You're right

But Bob's memories looked enough "real"

[azure bay]

most of the times

[astral frost]

even though I can't figure out how he survived to a gun shot lol

[vague imp]

even though I can't figure out how he survived to a gun shot lol
This is how Rusty Lake works LMAO

[azure bay]

My fellow-theorist researched this question. That kind of shot is not that lethal.
But personally, I prefer to think that the shot itself was not that real or the gun was not real or smth. My idea is that the gun was provided by Mr. Crow, a member of the crew that already showed its interest in him (by sending Sarah with a calling card). It may be a speculation but I noticed that he offered Bob a solution & eventually he obtained one

with the help of the very same crew

[vague imp]

This is something.

[astral frost]

It could be like a metaphor

about the fact that TWD or Dale extracted all his memories

"And then I realised I lost everything"

[azure bay]

I know your position on this question but I see more parallels between TLS level & Theatre

TLS is shown to be right after the shot

& inside Bob's mind

as all of images he sees come from his memories

[astral frost]

what is tls?

[azure bay]

the lost soul

[astral frost]

oh ok

But in that case Cube Escape Theatre shouldn't exist as a Dale memory

[azure bay]

I think that all that "memories drifting by" could be the cubes extracted by Dale-the-traveler for "remember the seasons" play & Bob's further corruption could be the one he experienced in the restroom

[astral frost]

I think the shot, or whatever it represents, really happened

Cause both Dale and Bob live that event in one of their memories

[azure bay]

the problem is that I used to consider Theatre as fully unreal one. I was thinking that Bob was not there at all - just a projection of him shooting himself with the officer gun back in PD

now as I know that I was wrong I still tend to see there a surreal vibe

at least because the rest of the audience seems to be missing

[astral frost]

I exactly feel the same as you

even if the newest games brought more "reality" to what is happening in RL universe

at least because the rest of the audience seems to be missing
@azure bay About that, I think whìe should take it as a "game style"

they preserved that style used in the first games

of a cubic room

[azure bay]

Another detail about the shot is a missing scar

I think it would stay there after Bob got recovered

[astral frost]

So it could be not so real as we think

we could consider it as a projection, as you said

of what really happened

the extraction of his memories

[azure bay]

we could consider it as a projection, as you said
@astral frost now I don't really think so as Bob did not mention any suicide attempts in the PD

he remembers the gun to be given by the bartender

[astral frost]

the extraction of his memories
@astral frost I'm referring to this

What happened in Theatre (Dale goes into Bob's head and takes his memories about Laura) is basically an interrogation

aka what probably happened at the Police Station after Laura's death

[azure bay]

Neither Bob or Dale don't remember that

the process of interrogation itself

[astral frost]

I think it's implied

A girl dies, her boyfriend is suspected

Dale: "I need your memory"

[azure bay]

We have not seen Dale working with this version

All he researched was the lake

It's highly probbable that someone else would interrogate a suspect

Even in Paradox Dale did not mention Bob in the case files

[astral frost]

So why Dale needed Bob's memory?

[azure bay]

I think that Bob's arrest was organised by the lake crew to bring Dale a challenge

[astral frost]

oh

that's a cool theory

[azure bay]

Mr. Owl refered it in his letter to Mr. Crow

[astral frost]

?

[azure bay]

not literally: "I found a possible chosen one, if he finds cubes we take him"

then we currently know that Dale was directly looking for cubes

or at least memories

[astral frost]

It would imply Dale knew about RL

But also the interrogation theory would be credible

[covert wyvern]

no Dale didn't know anything, he was just investigating Lauras murder

he was pushed into that direction sure.

but all the knowledge he has is from case23.

[azure bay]

He said Bob "I need your memory". We know for sure that he's obtained a cube just after that

[astral frost]

He said Bob "I need your memory". We know for sure that he's obtained a cube just after that
@azure bay or maybe it means he needed his memories

like questions about him and Laura

[azure bay]

To make my theory work we need only to assume that Dale somehow discovered connection between memories, cubes & CS

[astral frost]

to discover the murderer

[azure bay]

@azure bay or maybe it means he needed his memories
@astral frost kinda strange question

[astral frost]

true ahahah

[azure bay]

& circumstances are also strange

[astral frost]

remember this

He knew nothing

[azure bay]

the text is just a bit less vague than usual

he could find a lot before locking himself

[astral frost]

Right

I think your theory could be possible

[azure bay]

he could find a lot before locking himself
@azure bay considering there were several months between the chapters

I'll add that to my list of questions

"How much did he discover"

btw do you have the same list?

[astral frost]

I have some questions but nothing like a list ahaha

[azure bay]

would you share them?

[astral frost]

yep 👍

maybe later

[azure bay]

feel free to DM then or else I would miss them here

[astral frost]

even if I'm a bit resigned to the fact that we still need more infos about various things

[covert wyvern]

You'll always want more info;)

[astral frost]

you're right😩

[vague imp]

Why did Bob become a corrupted soul when didn't really die?

[azure bay]

Death is not a nessesary condition for rebirth

but yeah, it's unusual on his behalf

[vague imp]

Is being a corrupted soul considered "rebirthed" ?

[covert wyvern]

No.

A corrupted soul is just that; a corrupted soul.

[azure bay]

from samsara point of view yes

[covert wyvern]

Bob's grief caused his corruption, for example.

I assume.

[vague imp]

Lots of users on wiki and reddit have mentioned that corrupted souls are produced when someone dies - but this could be wrong

[azure bay]

each state represents a different creature type

Lots of users on wiki and reddit have mentioned that corrupted souls are produced when someone dies - but this could be wrong
@vague imp there are many ways shown. The death may or may not even be a cause in different cases

[vague imp]

So the samsara wheel is a sequence of rebirths in which a corrupted soul is part of the sequence? (Forgive me for asking stupid questions)

[covert wyvern]

Yes, I suppose it would fit best in

hungry ghost

The samsara wheel doesn't exactly account for corrupted souls

[azure bay]

you can't be sure here

we can not

[covert wyvern]

Not with anything in this darned universe ;p

[azure bay]

but still the CS are shown equally with the others states

originally, pretas are not leterally souls. They are "spirits" that are not able to nourish themselves

due to their necks being too thin

I don't see a good reason to regard them titerally as ghosts in RL version

[vague imp]

The reason I'm asking is because I also got a bit confused with William Vanderboom. When he died - he produced a seed AND became a corrupted soul. Those are 2 separate entities (a seed & CS) the seed was given to James which preserved it. But William still became a CS when he died? How is this possible? In order for William to be reincarnated to become Laura - his sould had to be sort of "recycled" 😅 - but my understanding is that the seed he produced had his soul within it and he also became a corrupted soul. A person can't have 2 souls? And if samsara wheel clearly has a sort of sequential process in which a souls has to undergo different "states" wouldn't that defy the circumstance with William?

Apologies for the spellchecks and grammar, I was typing super fast

[azure bay]

I doubt that the seed contains Will's soul or something

maybe it's just a part of his body needed to the ritual

[vague imp]

So the seed was preserved by James (given by Mr crow) to allow the continuation of the elixir?

In essence

[azure bay]

I think these are different

the rule of the elixir was clearly defined

1 gets reborn as azur

(or just a prolonged life in case of the dog)

1 dies

& may or may not become corrupted

A CS-after-William would notice James corrupting

if he were to

[vague imp]

Alright I think I understand

Aldous aka Mr Crow was the one that gave James the seed? But for what reason?

[spice rampart]

Maybe Mr Owl told him to do so.

[azure bay]

William's rebirth may be either Crow's personal affair (we are talking about his suffering brother) or Owl's need for the elixir

[vague imp]

@spice rampart probably, I read somewhere that they were had a plan for all of this, its weird because Mr crow aka aldous probably knew the seed was a way of reincarnating William. Buuuut- Mr Crow ends up mentally torturing laura to the point where she dies. It's a huge contradiction

[azure bay]

there is no direct evidence of him torturing her

the phone voice could belong to her CS