Idk just saying....
#🤔｜theories
sterile willow
vague imp
well yeah
vague imp
fgbfd fair warning this doc's will have warnings so i suggest you all read the first page of the doc's since it has upsetting talks.
upper drift
Doc?
velvet stirrup
I actually didn't quite understand what is the paradox room and how Dale got there?
covert wyvern
does anyone, really 😉
hollow comet
@velvet stirrup Birthday, Theatre and Paradox all happen while Dale is plugged in that machine
covert wyvern
but, ye, that.
hollow comet
he's teleported there by Mr Owl in The Mill
You can see him on that machine at the end of Cave
velvet stirrup
Yeah but in cave he starts to ascend in the elevator to the hotel, and in that journey he sees all the memories
hollow comet
I'm guessing that is a sort of 'to be continued'
because in all of those 3 games he goes down in the elevator
like descending into memories
velvet stirrup
Isn't he ascending? 🤨
hollow comet
I think at the end of Cave he has experienced all three, that is why Mr Crow finally gets the golden cube and gives it to him, and he goes up
Isn't he ascending? 🤨
yeah, doesn't he only go up in Cave?
covert wyvern
I think it's safe to say he ascends, ye,
considering owl wants a succesor to the lake
proper badger
isn't dale's grandpa mr.crow in birthday
hollow comet
yes
upper drift
isn't dale's grandpa mr.crow in birthday
Yas. He was there to kill Mr. Rabbit.
upper drift
No no no no no
No
He was a part of that alteration in Dale's memory.
This served a viable purpose for Mr. Owl as Dale relived his memory.... and Owl could also finish off Mr. Rabbit, since he had escaped the Hotel after his death.
velvet stirrup
So the grandpa doesn't exist? Not too sure I understood what you said
And I think that's just the corrupted souls that escaped the hotel, as they all died by Harvey
upper drift
So the grandpa doesn't exist? Not too sure I understood what you said
@velvet stirrup he exists.. and died.
So notice... in that secret vision, the soul of Rabbit was never the
There*
velvet stirrup
Oh really??
I saw it a long time ago
@velvet stirrup he exists.. and died.
@upper drift so it's not actually mr crow?
upper drift
He was technically another person... and he had died on the initial attack day (when Dale really was a kid).
But what we see in bday is an altered memory.
velvet stirrup
Oh yeah it makes sense
Well... For as much sense as you can expect from Rusty Lake lol
upper drift
Lmao
cloud sandal
.
tight geyser
I have a question, attentive people saw that Mr. Boar is an ambassador. The question is why this stupid boar ambassador?
upper drift
Idk.... if I say anymore, it may be politicising it.
So let’s forget this question ever happened
So question time....
What the heck dya all think Albert is looking for? When he kills everyone in a family.
He maybe mentally unstable... but uh..
And why did Leonard survive🤨
(The family band massacre).
tight geyser
stop stop stop. I asked the question, what do you think? what could he be an ambassador?
tight geyser
so what is he ambassador
upper drift
Don’t know.
tight geyser
When did your ignorance of the plot stop you from building a theory?
So POSSIBLY there are several countries in which the asuras live?
upper drift
Well... when it may be taken as political 🙂
hollow comet
I have a question, attentive people saw that Mr. Boar is an ambassador. The question is why this stupid boar ambassador?
pardon me, but I think this can be discussed without breaking any rules 😅
upper drift
I can’t... so go ahead Crow.
hollow comet
your question got me thinking, I might be completely wrong but
tight geyser
乁( •_• )ㄏ
hollow comet
I think the Eilander family all turned into the opposites of what they were, when they ascended
hollow comet
for example, Nicholas, a fanatic and a traditionalist, turns into Mr Deer, who is conducting researches on the Lake
hollow comet
@tight geyser Elizabeth, blind and by all accounts introverted, becomes a theatre actress (?) doing a photoshoot in Hotel
upper drift
But Uncle Eilander didn’t exactly strike me as intelligent though🤨
I forgot his name...
Uhm.
hollow comet
Now I don't know about Margaret, but she is the grandma of the family, so I assume she must've been nice lmao
upper drift
Now she’s baaaad bad bad.
hollow comet
but in Hotel she is holding hostage and torturing a young bird
hollow comet
now I begin to run into problems with my idea, bear with me please
hollow comet
David, he's always running into troubles in Paradise, turned into an ice block, had low blood sugar, turned into a fly. He also bothers Jakob when he's picking frogs.
So all in all he's the troublesome do-nothing child of the family
Then we have Mr Rabbit, he's a successful magician
on top of that he becomes central to the story in Birthday (I hope you to know what I'm talking about lol)
vague imp
That is cool
hollow comet
4 out of 5 accounted for
I'm only talking about the Eilander family here
that leaves us with Gerard
upper drift
That’s what.. Gerard was never the brightest bulb anyways...
hollow comet
his case is problematic, because he's more similar than different before and after the ascension
in that he's still a glutton
upper drift
True.
But...
They maintained some amount of their traits maybe?
Mr. Eilander was knowledgable either ways.
hollow comet
I'll try to think more about this, but I've hit the ceiling for now 😅
upper drift
Mrs. Pheasant and Elizabeth, both were... idk
hollow comet
@tight geyser I wrote this all in response to your question, so please do tell me what you think
upper drift
He👏 is 👏offline👏
hollow comet
I have done my duty 
upper drift
Aight. Cya lol
hollow comet
Elizabeth, blind and by all accounts introverted, becomes a theatre actress (?) doing a photoshoot in Hotel
Also, I should mention that pheasants are known to have excellent eyesight, so there's that
tight geyser
I think the asuras have the same generalized common which has developed in parallel to people for thousands of years. They probably borrowed our technology and fashion. Roughly speaking, the asuras are an alternative history of our And perhaps they fought their own wars. As for the Tetara and Elizabeth, I think to sing in her soul.
No, I'm sure the asura in the game is an alternative to a person with a higher one, I don't even know how to say it, but I hope you understand. Asuras have their own countries and therefore ambassadors, they have their own idols, we saw posters Hare and pheasant. Scientists deer and dove. Everything is like ours, but they are hiding from us and do not want to appear ...
hollow comet
the idea that hybrids try to hide from the rest of the world makes sense
when William/James looked at the Hotel from the vanderboom house they only saw statues of the Eilanders, not the actual hybrids
tight geyser
Em asuras are not hybrids but demigods
hollow comet
yeah but the hybrids in Rusty Lake are called asuras too
also can someone explain to me who a /dev/ is in Rusty Lake?
I know that the /asuras/ are hybrids, the /preta/ are the corrupted souls, the /tiryagyoni/ are fish (although I think the word applies to any non-hybrid animal), and the /manush/ are obviously humans
but who is a/the /dev/?
to start off, the picture frame that says /dev/ in Theatre is empty, and shows a reflection of Dale before the lights turn on
tight geyser
Dev is a deity. @hollow comet
hollow comet
I know that but who is it in Rusty Lake
tight geyser
We have not seen a single deva. Perhaps it was Mr. White Rabbit after death and maybe a singer from Tetar
fringe sparrow
Yea right dev is good I know hindi
azure bay
I've faced a question lately about a difference between Mr. Owl+Mr. Crow team & other asuras (if they are all ones indeed cause Mr. Crow is the only 100% confirmed here). In The Cave the lake crew looks more like human beings as they are weakened & their bird forms seem to be their masks that require a powersource to appear. Not sure but this wouldn't seem to be the case for, let's say, Mr. Toad or any of the guests which have never shown a transformation back to their human forms.
Any thoughts here?
hollow comet
My guess? Except Mr Owl and Mr Crow, all hybrids that we've met are young, not in their biological age, but rather their 'hybrid' age.
Mr Owl was born in 1775 and ascended in 1796.
Mr Crow was born in 1799 and became a hybrid in 1859.
Seeing that the events of The Cave occur in 1972, that leaves them both at 197 and 173 years old, respectively.
It also means that they had been hybrids for 176 and 113 years, at the time of The Cave.
Seeing that Hotel happens in 1893 and assuming the rest of the Eilanders ascended in the same year as Jakob, that would leave every Eilander's 'hybrid' age to be about 97 years at the time of Hotel.
Mr Toad and Mr Bat don't make an appearance before or after Hotel so I assume they've been hybrids for even less time than the Eilanders.
I can't find a good enough consistency here, but I'll go ahead and guess that a hybrid needs to drink the elixir every ~100 years, also depending on how much of the hybrid powers (?) they use (the only hybrid shown to have/use powers is Mr Owl).
In conclusion, I think the elixir of longetivity needs to be drunk every 100 years or so depending upon the hybrid. Only 2 hybrids have been shown to have actually had a need to drink it because they were growing weak. I would say this is because all the other hybrids were either young (in terms of hybrid age) or died before they needed to drink the elixir again.
(All dates taken from the wikia)
@azure bay
do tell me what you think, this was loooong
azure bay
Not sure about elixir wearing off faster with magic used more extesively. In fact, they make an extract using probably the same mecanics of losing elixir effects as they experienced it themselves - its particles are leaving body via feces. The dog they are currently using for the extract drank the elixir later then they did. It's highly possible for me to be the only reason they use it.
hollow comet
that's a good idea
covert wyvern
so what they should be doing is injecting the elixir straight into their bloodstream,
got it.
hollow comet
azure bay
Maybe not. If that was the major way they'd lost their powers in a week if not a day
Elixir has not just flew through their bodies. It's got abrorbed instead.
An injection way could be more effiecient, though, but still would not solve the problem
hollow comet
if I may bring in some poop facts here (I swear it's related to RL):
The average dog produces 124 kg of fecal matter in a year, compare that to the average data for a human, which is 145 kg.
Since we're talking about James' dog, who is on the heavier side of dogs, I think it's same to assume similar figures per annum.
That dog had been a hybrid (?- he never transforms but I'll say that because he still drank the elixir) for 102 years at the time of The Cave, just 11 years less than Mr Crow. He hasn't yet been shown to have a need to drink elixir again.
So I think you might've got to something with the idea that the elixir leaves the body via defecation, but as I said before, it could also depend on how much of 'hybrid powers' a hybrid actually uses during their time.
azure bay
I think the dog has never been reborn as Asura due to a big gap between animals & asuras in samsara hierarchy. It was following Rose for long enough with no showing her (quite a knowledgeable one) any powers besides prolonged life. "The abcsence of evidence is a weak evidence of abcsence"
@hollow comet
hollow comet
Not all hybrids are reborn, they simply transform when they drink the elixir.
You might be right in saying that not all effects of the elixir apply onto animals, because they're on a different level of the circle of life (/tiryagyoni/), though I don't find this idea too convincing, why does the dog not get longetivity either?
@azure bay
azure bay
When I say "reborn" I mean "transform". From samsara point of view all of these are ment to be rebirths. What we see, not every case requires death
In fact we know very little about the elixir. I just say what I see: The elixir of LIFE & death have given a new form to Aldous & Jacob & just a longevity to the dog (while other partisipants died)
hollow comet
a little side note: Jakob didn't really ascend by drinking the elixir
upper drift
He was some sort of heir?
Anyways.. he was killed by a bunch of arsonists.. aka family members.. and he ascended.
azure bay
yeah, but it seems he did it via Caroline's memories & her death
a little side note: Jakob didn't really ascend by drinking the elixir
@hollow comet
hollow comet
yeah, their souls fused
azure bay
Anyways.. he was killed by a bunch of arsonists.. aka family members.. and he ascended.
@upper drift I think he ascended only because Caroline has intervened. The other Eilander have acsended through his sacrifice
azure bay
Ok I still want to hear more thoughts on why Mr. Owl+Mr. Crow & their guests are different.
Especially in The Cave
upper drift
Mr. Owl.. died, became enlightened and ascended.
Mr. Crow, drank Elixir, fulfilled the condition (one dies, other lives). And became a hybrid Ig.
And cave....
azure bay
But still these 2 act mostly in the same way
upper drift
Well that is still unexplainable. But we can see that the elixir gives him longevity of life
Not invincibility.
But I bet he was searching something beneath the lake
That's my theory btw...
azure bay
who was?
upper drift
Owl
But maybe... and again.. this is my theory not confirmed.
The Lake water is his Kryptonite.
Since the elixir is made from the water of the lake as well (I think we did that in Roots)... the effects of the Lake may counteract against the effect of the elixir.
azure bay
The Lake water is his Kryptonite.
@upper drift Quite a brave assumption
upper drift
Mhmm... but think about it
azure bay
Only because he nearly drowned there?
upper drift
Also... it revealed his true human face
If you remember
He fluctuated between that bald guy we see in White Door and Theatre (anchor)
And his Owl Mask.
azure bay
To be fair, The Manager is not comfirmed to be the Owl. He's a bit different design (even considering globar redesign in Paradox he haven't changed much there) & a bit different voice impression
azure bay
The guy in the theatre is the Owl, The Manager can be not
hollow comet
iirc this was discussed before, and the Manager has no reason to be someone other than Mr Owl, even his name on the system is Mr O
slate finch
I'm pretty sure it's him, TWD is stylistically pretty different from the other games (look at Bob in TWD compared to Theatre)
azure bay
I'm pretty sure it's him, TWD is stylistically pretty different from the other games (look at Bob in TWD compared to Theatre)
@slate finch It's stylished in the same way as Paradox is & we have a different Mr. Owl there
slate finch
TWD doesn't look like Paradox at all...
azure bay
During dreams Dale is the same, Laura is the same, Mr. Crow is the same (with his new monochrome coat), some minor objects are the same, but not The Manager & Mr. Owl
hollow comet
but The White Door isn't a dream
azure bay
I'm talking about its dream levels
where it's easier to recognise the same desings
I agree, The Manager has a lot of reasons to be Mr. Owl, but still he could be a completely different character that only obeys Mr. Owl
Maybe RL makes us question it on purpose
I guess, we'll get the answer in further game about Dale (unless they change design once more). But untill then we should question it.
as we should question everything with no direct confirmation
azure bay
Damm... Reading old messages: so many questions that interested me as well are evoqued... We need some platform not to lose them & their possible answers...
hollow comet
unfortunately the (unofficial) subreddit isn't as active on theories
light cipher
Hello everyone,
I played TWD and I was wondering just a thing but it's not really a theory, but so if I right understood, Bob Hill survived his suicide attempt in Theater (so case 23 and Theater happened around June/July 1972) then there is TWD where he is cured and then he writes his book that we see in Paradox (if i well remember)?
Just in case, I was not sure if it would have been better to send this message in spoiler, but like it's just a "theory" about the right order of the event, both seems right.
hollow comet
@light cipher
Hi, based on what we saw at the end of The Cave, the events in Birthday, Theatre, and Paradox occur in Dale's mind, they're twisted versions of what really happened.
A common hypothesis is that Dale met Bob in the theatre and arrested him (Bob didn't really shoot himself) as a suspect for Laura's murder.
Bob turned corrupted while in the police station, killed a policeman (this is shown in Chapter 2 of Case 23) and escaped.
The corruption later reversed and Bob woke up on the street (TWD) and was admitted to The White Door.
He presumably wrote his book, fittingly called 'False Accusations' after being released from the facility.
covert wyvern
Reality is often dissapointing 😉
hollow comet
"it was all in his mind"
light cipher
Huuuuuum it's more clear like this, thank you. I always assumed that the memories we saw in these games were real memories (with just the intervention of some of others people like Mr Crow) and that Bob Hill really tried to kill himself, and in Paradox I remember that in the drawers with all the files we see a photo of Bob Hill on the ground with a gun wound on his head.
hollow comet
they were real memories, just twisted
Dale's parents were actually murdered, which was reversed in Birthday
covert wyvern
thats what dreams do to you.
hollow comet
huh, how come I have never seen that photo LMAO
light cipher
Reversed? Like real reversed or just memory alteration?
light cipher
But, if it's really just memories, it's kind of weird, I mean Dale Vandermeer doesn't have the capacities of Mr Owl or Mr Crow (not even sure that even them could do that) so I was thinking it was just like in the end of TWD where we modified the memories of Bob so he doesn't remember having meet Laura Vanderboom.
covert wyvern
I think especially in the TWD, bob dreams between days
so the coloured sections are dreams,
the black and white days
dreams easily twist reality.
covert wyvern
well only after he gets cured from his corruption.
which results in him forgetting laura
poor bob.
vague imp
Poor Bobert
covert wyvern
now that is interesting.
vague imp
We also see him ||at one of tv chanels that give achivement.||
light cipher
Huuuum don't remember this, which channel?
hollow comet
yeah, I always saw that photo while looking for the correct order of books but never thought about it until now lmao
spice frigate
It was channel 247
light cipher
But so, if Bob really survive this (and it's possible) , paradox occurs after August 1972 since Bob has the time to write and publish his book. But so Paradox occurs in a real place? Since Dale can't have knowledge of this book since he disappears before August 1972
covert wyvern
if we go off the assumption that Dale is in the cube machine during paradox
vague imp
Oh ye ye
covert wyvern
the entire world could be fabricated
vague imp
Could be.
covert wyvern
he could be stuck in a victorian era house with future tech and be non the wiser.
light cipher
But the memory of a book that he doesn't know the existence?
light cipher
Maybe paradox occurs after he get the golden cube and he is still captive of the hotel?
covert wyvern
I arrested an innocent man, what if he writes about me
boom the book is there
even though its never written
light cipher
Yep, but it's the exact same book, it would be a huge coincidence xD
covert wyvern
like the sad part about paradox is how "unreal" it is
hollow comet
I never did the date maths myself but according to the wikia, chapter 2-4 of Case 23, The Cave, TWD, and all three 'dream games' happen in 1972
So Dale arrested Bob for real, he turned corrupted in the police station, at the same time Dale was teleported to the Lake where shortly after, the dream games happened
light cipher
I did the transcription of all the dates in games (and roots has some mistakes with it)
covert wyvern
we have a confirmed admission date for Bob
hollow comet
source?
light cipher
Like Samuel and Ida Vanderboom who are victims of the voodoo rites of Albert probably the same day which Mary Vanderboom died, so the 1st may 1904, but the date of their decease are the 30th December 1904
hollow comet
light cipher
Or just the calendar in game 😐
hollow comet
was there any more 'new' content released in the arg?
covert wyvern
non relevant to the 'main' story of the game, as far as I know.
light cipher
Huuuum the basement has some important elements I think
hollow comet
is it available for access
light cipher
Yes
hollow comet
not the basement
non relevant to the 'main' story of the game, as far as I know.
this
covert wyvern
we already know Mr Owl does some wack epxerimenting w/ people
that he keeps a few locked in a basement doesn't phase me in the slighest
light cipher
They still came from all over the world
So Mr Owl has much more ressources that we might think
light cipher
Yes, but it's put the question, how much power Mr Owl has in the real world (and I don't talk about magic)?
hollow comet
he manages a real mental health facility that people actually go to
so ig he has some standing in society
light cipher
They are all unfathomably rich
And, Mr Owl is not really immortal but he can't die of old age, and we are not sure if we can really " kill" one of them with an other method
covert wyvern
that is by any definition immortal, is it not?
can't die of old age, cannot be killed by any means that we know of.
of course he announces to dale that his time is limited,
light cipher
Not sure, because we don't know if the corrupted soul state is not a state of death for them
light cipher
When?
hollow comet
The Cave
light cipher
No, it was not old age
covert wyvern
well the entirety of dales existence post birthday is him becoming owls succesor right lol
light cipher
He was attacked by the corrupted souls in the lake
hollow comet
the elixir provides longetivity not immortality
they did puncture his scuba gear but I don't think he could've been brought to near death by the souls
He has escaped them before
light cipher
Hum, in roots they say "eternal life"
hollow comet
that's probably because they don't know lmao
light cipher
Yes but still, nearly drowned an immortal can probably weakened him
hollow comet
caroline's recipe was presumably never tried until the Vanderboom brothers did it
light cipher
But how exactly Mr Owl became immortal since if I remember right (not sure) that he never drinks the elixir, he is burned alive in paradise, no?
hollow comet
he is, his soul merges with his mother's
he doesn't ascend by drinking the elixir but he does need it to sustain his longetivity
light cipher
Huuuum yes, it could be that, even if after 1859,if he drank the elixir, he should be an immortal like Mr Crow
But, yes, it's true that they seem to need to drink the elixir quite often, even if we don't know why, he could be to keep they immortal state but it could be also to keep control on this state and don't turn fully animal hybrids like all the Mr and Ms in Hotel
Ah, I would like to have a Rusty lake Origins one day, just to know how the eilander found this knowledge , how the Vanderboom found this too and what is the links with the Van Gogh and the Vandermeer families.
hollow comet
great idea
The Vanderbooms probably just stumbled upon it in the cave (it used to be Caroline's lab) or Mr Crow was given a heads-up by Mr Owl on where to find it
I read somewhere that after his brother died, Aldous seperated from the Vanderboom family and started his own, the Vandermeers;
which would also explain why he's grandpa Crow in Birthday (though it may just be an altered memory)
light cipher
Huuuum maybe, but so he would be the ancestor of both because I think that he is the father of James Vanderboom
Since William Vanderboom is the uncle who died and so James inherited his house and we only knows of Two brothers Vanderboom
But, it could also be the uncle, because Mary rebuild a skeleton in Roots with bones of the family member and we don't know whose is this skeleton, so it could be aldous who faked his death.
(since the corpse of William was stuck in the clock)
hollow comet
remind me, was it Mary or Rose who dug up the bones
light cipher
Rose, my mistake
hollow comet
oh? then it was probably one of the Vanderbooms that we've met
I don't remember exactly but there could've been a clue
especially with the timepieces
light cipher
Hum, no it couldn't be because we see all the graves 🤔:
At this time, Rose, Frank and Leonard are still alive
And we see the tombs of James, Mary, Albert, Emma, Ida and Samuel
hollow comet
and it wasn't one of them?
light cipher
No, we open the tombs at this moment but there is still a hole next to where an incomplete skeleton is
hollow comet
@light cipher it should've been William
light cipher
And since James has the news at the beginning of the game that is uncle died, the corpse must have been discovered, so either it was the corpse of William and then Aldous take it again and stuck it in the clock, either aldous fake is death but why would we rebuilt the skeleton of a random who keep the golden timepieces (or maybe aldous after he transcended has leave his mortal body behind), either it would be a third member that we never heard of before and whose the house was just above the secret lab of the two brothers.
hollow comet
Aldous didn't really leave his body
and iirc William wasn't put back into the clock?
or was he?
light cipher
He seems to be stuck in the clock at the time of his death in 1959 until 1960, so it's strange
But after I don't know what they made of the corpse.
But if James know that his uncle is dead, they must have found his corpse.
hollow comet
James must've buried him when he discovered his body
Did he fall out in like the 3rd level?
vague imp
Maybe dog eat him
light cipher
Yes
hollow comet
light cipher
It would really be a hungry dog so
vague imp
Hehehe
light cipher
So, it's not really clear who is the uncle
hollow comet
the uncle?
light cipher
The uncle who had the house before James
hollow comet
that's William
light cipher
Yeah, but if it's him, they must have found the corpse to declare him dead, so it wouldn't be in a clock
hollow comet
and joshua, I think James presumably kept his dog fed well enough so he didn't need to consume William's corpse lmfao
as I said, iirc he fell out of the clock in the 3rd level probably
Will have to check tho
light cipher
Yeah but the oncle was already declared death at this moment, so it doesn't make sense
hollow comet
?
light cipher
I repeat, we have the beginning of the game where Jame comes to inhabit the house of his uncle who died probably shortly before, James settle in the house and AFTER the corpse of William is discovered in the clock where Aldous hide it in 1959.
So, in this case, it can't be William who is declare death since no one discover the corpse before, he should be declare missing in this case, not dead.
hollow comet
it's Aldous who writes the letter. He knows William is dead because he died in front of him lmao
light cipher
We don't know who has written the letter for sure, even if there is the stamp with the familly armory on it, it's not signed, so it could be Aldous or someone else.
Like a notary or an other member of the familly
We only know these two members of the familly before James and we don't know for sure who is the father of James.
And if Aldous founded the Vandermeer familly, why would he change his name? He could keep the name Vanderboom, except if he shouldn't be alive because he faked his death.
hollow comet
of course, anything is possible in RL!
In my opinion no one, except for Mr Crow could've written that letter because no one knew about William's death
And if Aldous founded the Vandermeer familly, why would he change his name? He could keep the name Vanderboom, except if he shouldn't be alive because he faked his death.
That's just a cool theory I read somewhere else
I don't have any particular thoughts about it
light cipher
Ah, I just thing about an element who could be the answer at this question.
Before James discovers the lab, we see him reading a book with the symbol of the wheel on the front page, and this book seems be the same that the one written by A. Vanderboom that we see in Paradox, so if there is the book of Aldous with all the informations about the lab within in the house, so it could be a hint that it is the house of Aldous, so Aldous would be the uncle and he faked his death after he transcends
So, William would be the father of James.
azure bay
Let me stretch in another opinion on Dale's journey. Paradox is indeed happening inside Dale's head (during The Cave, to be precise), but Birthday & Theatre from a certain point of viee take place in the Lake itself.
The elevator between the marbre cube & the hotel is pretty much real cause it was seen from the outside by those who is behind & above all the illusions just as all cubes that float around it.
Birthday & Theatre are 2 of those cubes that belong (or possibly once belonged) to Dale. They depict some of his memories but with some changes brought in by the lake crew.
Here ends the part I think many can agree on. The following information is controvertial and can have as many supporters as opponents despite being fundamental.
The point of disagreement is the question weather the past is changeable in the RL universe
I personally think yes, but still respect the quantity of people that think otherwise
I know that changeable past can ruin the story as successfully as "It was all just a dream, halucination, etc."
For example, in that case you could regard Dale's story uncanon just because Laura has canceled her death far back in Seasons (there was a literal call to change the past on the office board)
Agree. It sucks
And I've found a way around it
I don't like a butterfly-effect time travel theory so popular in fiction cause it's able to create paradoxes like a "killed grandpa" one.
Instead another theory is much more appealing to me. The one used lately in the Avengers: Endgame where the events changed by you in the past drag you to another timeline, but still conserving the original one.
I think It's applicable here because it's confimred that we've already faced a non-linear timeline at least once. In Paradox.
I'm talking about secret endings.
They both seem to be a true ones begause they both end the constant loop Dale & Laura find themselves in. They also seem to have pretty much the same outcome on the world with one "little" difference: it either Dale or Laura die while the other eventually gets enlightenment.
There probably was no reason to show us the one where Dale dies unless RL wanted to underline its importance. Therefore I take both as canon, but in parallel timelines.
And here we go: Birthday & Theatre. Let's focus on the first one. It all starts as it happened back in 1939 unless the attention payed by the lake crew to the little boy: he gets some extra mail and one more present - all from them.
(If u let me finish, I'll get to Bob soon)
The family is killed then, but
the present is a machine that produses him a blue cube that helps literally reverse time a bit & prevent their death. The past is balanced - Dale has surpassed his challenge. Moving to the theatre & Bob.
light cipher
Huuuuuum I think I will need to read this again to understand your point, but in my opinion, I don't think there is time travel mechanics implied in the serie (even If i can be wrong) but I think more there is memory manipulation and visions of the futur make possible with some cubes (the white ones are the uncorrupted memory, the black ones the corrupted memory, the blue ones I think are the possibility to modify the memory you have of an event) and maybe the golden one would be a cube that allow to see memories of past and/or future lives, or maybe navigate through all the memory OR if we want to go in the direction of your theory, maybe a cube that allow the mind to travel in the time but with the mind still attached to the body, like the time travel in X-men days of the future past.
But, I admit that in seasons, the part in 1981 create a lot of question on this point
Because, unless if William/Laura Vanderboom succeed to reborn again or ressurect, or if maybe we don't really play Laura in seasons, so one of the possibility would be the time travel
azure bay
My guess is that at first Bob could have left theatre without shooting himself & instead being arrestes the next year. In TWD secret scene Bob sees Dale asking for his memories & getting them. But after Dale returns to the theatre via the Lake he takes the same memories from Bob and sees the same scene of Bob corrupting & eventually getting him to TWD facility (& all of these was manipulated by the Lake crew who changed the program & gave Bob a gun)
And Bob's flashforward in The Lost Soul (that's inside his head) he just sees traces of an old timeline he was going to travel on
Now I'm going to read your thoughts & try to answer them
light cipher
We still need to consider the possibility that there is also some mistakes in some games, in particulary with the dates
azure bay
I prefer to neglect this possibility, because devs have posted a timeline containing both Case 23 & Theatre
Instead of fixing the dates inside their games
light cipher
Which timeline? I see one on the blog but not sure if it was the most recent.
azure bay
There were 2 official
light cipher
And there is mistakes, notably with the dates of death of the familly members in roots :/
azure bay
The second one with Hotel, Birthday & Theatre added was hidden in The Cave
And there is mistakes, notably with the dates of death of the familly members in roots :/
@light cipher tell me about them
light cipher
Hidden where?
azure bay
The link WAS hidden in a crate floating in the lake on certain coords. To get coords you need to visit all curiosities on the map & see them through a periscope
But later they have just published it
light cipher
Aaaaah yes I did this, but it just took me to a page about a finished contest if I remember well
azure bay
Tell about the Roots mistake
light cipher
A moment, pc is slow
For exemple, we have the fact that Albert gone crazy and murder Mary the 1st May 1904 and very probably did the voodoo rituals on Samuel and Ida the same day (it's even more possible that it's happens during summer 1904). And at the end, on the grave of Mary we see the date 1st May 1904 but on the the graves of Ida and Samuel we see that they died the 30 December 1904, so seven months later
And I recall that for the vaudoo rituals he burned Samuel, he took off one eye at both of them and for Ida he impaled her via voodoo magic
pure rose
The second one with Hotel, Birthday & Theatre added was hidden in The Cave
This one is not official
azure bay
This one is not official
@pure rose the one with Paradox is not. Cause it was me to create it. But with Hotel Is
light cipher
Or the fact that the final meeting between Frank and Albert occurs in Autumn 1926, and Frank chocked Albert to death and took his brain, but the date of death on the grave of Albert is the 3rd February 1926
And there was also the fact that Emma Vanderboom killed herself in Summer 1896 like said in game, but on her grave, it's written 16th october 1896
And all these dates are in the same game
azure bay
Or the fact that the final meeting between Frank and Albert occurs in Autumn 1926, and Frank chocked Albert to death and took his brain, but the date of death on the grave of Albert is the 3rd February 1926
@light cipher some of these are not mistakes, but rather a mispresentation. The game takes place in a long time period. Some events are stretched thin, some are taken away.
For example, The Search starts in 1901 & shows the Hotel ivents of 1904. It's believable that Emma searched for Frank for several years.
The death of Mary (that is NOT confirmed to be commited by Albert) could happen in the result of Sam's & Ida's. It's also believable that an old weak heart could not handle this grief more than several mounths.
Talking about Frank, he was weak when he got out the well. He needed time to recover & to be able to strangle Albert. The question is where was he hiding during time in between.
I can agree only on Emma's date of death. Plus there was a mistake with The Photo date that was fixed afterwards.
I think It's wrong to compare those two possibilities of mistake because Roots is a big game with a lot of dates & the 2 Cube Escapes have only several mounths of chronology between them.
light cipher
For the search of Frank I agree, it took places on several years and I don't see any mistakes in the dates.
The death of Mary is more possibly committed by albert because when it occurs, we see that the walls are stained of blood with the writing "there will be blood" we see the two voodoo dolls hung on the wall with theirs button eyes already took off and we see a traumatised Leonard on the ground wondering himself if his parents are dead, and this happens just after we see them all playing musics (we still see the instruments on the ground) and after Mr Crow give the deer skull to Albert.
For Frank, yes he was weak, but he was free of the well by Rose during the Autumn 1924, and Frank kills Albert two years later (on base of Autumn 1926 and not the death date), so Rose probably hides him in the house.
Ah, just one mistakes with yours dates I just saw, Frank and the disparition occurs in Autumn 1891 and Emma killed herself in 1896
azure bay
Not convinced with Mary. Those were quite symbolic. Could mean anything. I've always seen them as a consequence of Sam's & Ida's murder. Mary looked like she had a heart attack. Dates on graves are more relieble for me cause what we see can be very & very surreal.
With Frank & Alvert you are possibly right. But still it could take even several years either to recover after decades of conviction either to plan a revenge.
No, I was talking about The Search that is labeled under 1891 & Harvey's death in 1894. They both show the same lightbeam hitting the sky & harvey as a small parrot
light cipher
Mary looked more to me like if Albert chocked her to death
azure bay
He had no reason. The mother could be the only one who loved him. Even the madness is less probable here
light cipher
Ah yes, but you said 1901 and 1904, I just pointed the mistake 😅
covert wyvern
To be fair I always assumed Albert to be quite the frail person
I doubt he could really put up a fight
light cipher
Huuuum not sure, even if he spare his nephew, he still killed his parents then he took one of the fœtus of Ida to create rose, so, him killing his mother is not a big deal for him I think
light cipher
And Frank never hurt him in any ways and still he trapped him and injured him in a well for 33 years
azure bay
His hate was exclusively towards his siblings. The fact of living Leo is a big deal here. He left him after finishing with his ennemies.
light cipher
Yes but @covert wyvern who is the strongest, a frail grandma or a weak and injured man consumed by hate? XD
azure bay
To be honest it would be enough to strangle a vodoo doll
light cipher
Maybe it's what he did
azure bay
Maybe not. It was not presented there alongside the others
light cipher
The problem is that the death dates are incoherent and we don't have precise date in games for these events
azure bay
Again, in many cases I tend to rely more on documented dates than on vaguely depicted events
Ok. If RL really wanted us to think that Albert killed Mary they'd draw the freaking 3rd doll for her
light cipher
I will search in youtube video to screen the moments so you see, because I am tired of reseting the game
azure bay
Again, It's not convincing me
light cipher
We see here the death of Mary, but we also see the blood and the vaudoo dolls on the wall
azure bay
I tell you that all of these elements could be taken from different times
In RL games you can never truly believe what you see
Only suppose
That's why I appreciate dates more
Exactly this picture can hint us that 2 people are dead because of voodoo, their son is scared & his grand-mother is also dead
No calendar at all
Only in the beginning
And after a timeskip of unknown size
That's why I'm not nesseseraly labeling the Mary's date as a mistake
azure bay
I tend to believe all of three
The last 2 are the same. & we've seen them dying together
No questions
But we disagree on the first one
A-ha
I see now. I'm wrong, but you can be wrong either
Somehow she died even before them
Or RL have really messed up years of the same winter
rich crest
And if they all died in the same day but Albert for some reason was hiding the bodies?
azure bay
The newspaper said that he probably was not
azure bay
Which one?
rich crest
@light cipher some of these are not mistakes, but rather a mispresentation. The game takes place in a long time period. Some events are stretched thin, some are taken away.
For example, The Search starts in 1901 & shows the Hotel ivents of 1904. It's believable that Emma searched for Frank for several years.
The death of Mary (that is NOT confirmed to be commited by Albert) could happen in the result of Sam's & Ida's. It's also believable that an old weak heart could not handle this grief more than several mounths.
Talking about Frank, he was weak when he got out the well. He needed time to recover & to be able to strangle Albert. The question is where was he hiding during time in between.
I can agree only on Emma's date of death. Plus there was a mistake with The Photo date that was fixed afterwards.
I think It's wrong to compare those two possibilities of mistake because Roots is a big game with a lot of dates & the 2 Cube Escapes have only several mounths of chronology between them.
@azure bay this one
azure bay
I'm a bit wrong about Frank here. It's taken him several years. Not mounths
& if we believe dates on the graves Mary somehow died before her son & not after
rich crest
I really don't understand how no one noticed he was living in the well
azure bay
The plot sais so :з
It's left for us just to accept
Ok, @light cipher. As a result, I'm convinced that it's not so easy to make a mistake in Cubes rather in this mess. They even have a vivid scheme for Case 23 & Theatre timeline
But
I'm familiar with a theory that Bob & Dale visit the theatre in different time & meet each other either in a time-pocket or just as projections from their respective times
(discord so badly needs links to old messages)
light cipher
I go through the game again to screen the interesting elements
So first, we already see this but it just to remember the date, so they all died the same year.
Then, there is this, who take place during summer 1904 and where Albert kill them both, right?
azure bay
No doubt
light cipher
So this is just to confirm they are dead and to see the form of the doll at the end of this event
azure bay
Bref, everything here is not so easy. A lot of possibilities.
light cipher
We can see that it seems to happen the same summer and even more that the vaudoo dolls are in the same state that when Albert killed Samuel and Ida and that Leonard is not sure if they are dead.
azure bay
In fact, it STARTS in the summer
But can last for long
Yeah. I guess we have some kind of mistake or a retcon.
But it's conserning the spouses
light cipher
But it's in the same game, it's weird like mistake 😅
It's concerning the spouses and Mary if they all died the same day
azure bay
Do u feel confused?
light cipher
No, I m still fine
azure bay
But I admit I am confused
light cipher
But it was just to say, before we made some huge time travel theories, we need to be sure that there is no mistake like this
azure bay
Once again, Roots is a much bigger mess than Cubes
light cipher
The two are linked
azure bay
Not so closely
light cipher
So, the whole is a huge mess
Cube espaces is the part of the story around Laura and Dave, RL about the others surnaturals characters and games like TWD about other normal peoples like Bob hill
So, yes it's deeply connected
azure bay
Separatly Roots is chronologically bigger. There are a lot of dates that are hard to remember & a lot of events as well
It's less probable to see such a stuff in Dale's story because it's much shorter
light cipher
This is the reason I always play one time to discover the game and minimum an other to take notes.
azure bay
& Dale's story is also more exciting
light cipher
The whole universe is ultra interesting
Dale's story alone would just seem to be a huge confused mess
azure bay
Here's that timeline
If this is a mistake, it's a very consistent one
This is the last official one
Have you noticed my message about another theory how Bob & Dale met in Theatre?
light cipher
Yeah, but I still need to read again your messages about the time travel theory to be sure to understand and I am exhausted, so I think I will screen and read it later, no offense 😅
light cipher
Huuuum I was wondering if TWD took place in real world or in some alternate places because of the suicide attempt of Bob Hill but I should read my note again to see if some theories take forms 🤔
azure bay
I'd be happy to read it via pm. Maybe in french. I need practice before DELF :з
But yeah, later
I'm going to bed
It's been a plеasure
light cipher
Aaaaah you speak French too?
azure bay
I like to think so
covert wyvern
Yo so
Hear me out
In the white door we have two endings right
I think depending on which ending is canon the timeline splits.
Bc in the sarah ending we see bob with his book "false accusations", which can be found in paradox, in the regular ending I think bob is trapped in the white door so owl can use his memories
Now I'm not sure if this means that the regular ending is just "non canon"
vague imp
Hmmm
covert wyvern
Or that there's like a potential for RL to also explore that branch of the story
So basically this idea.
I am not an artist.
vague imp
That is actually cool idea buddy
covert wyvern
Actually.
Hot take.
Paradox chapter 2 takes place after the laura ending
Paradox chapter 1 after the sarah ending
All this is sadly based on very tiny shred on evidence
(false accusations not being present in chapter 2)
covert wyvern
Like paradox in itself is a weird entity that technically splits up the timelines
vague imp
Yep
covert wyvern
But hey figured I'd share this idea
vague imp
That is very cool theory man
light cipher
I always think that the Sarah episode was just an epilogue to show that she rebels against the treatments of the establishment and free Bob of his tortured memories (and free the people captive in the basement)
But this theory it's really interesting, I will play to paradox again to see if I find others elements to collaborate with this theory
light cipher
It was an element of the arg so I don't know if it's canon but there is a "secret level" in the Sarah level.
light cipher
I thought it was an epilogue the Sarah level and than the basement was a secret level
rich crest
Well, thanks so much for the information and here I go again kkkk
light cipher
You're welcome ^^ but it just my opinion and with the theory above it could be false so, it worths what it worths xD
rich crest
Yes I know, I can't say anything about the theory bc I didn't play paradox chapter 2 yet
Btw, I hope u all can understand my english, you know, it's not my first language :)
light cipher
I was wondering, will we get one day a RL game placed during WWII? 🤔🤔
Ahah don't worry, I understand perfectly and I am not a native speaker too, so don't worry ^^
rich crest
I was wondering, will we get one day a RL game placed during WWII? 🤔🤔
@light cipher I would love... But there's another thing that I would love an explanation: why are the cubes for? I thought that it would have something with the exlir but now I'm really not sure
light cipher
It could be interesting I think, first, because if I don't make a mistake, the "van" in the name Vanderboom, Vandermeer, Van Gogh has an German origin, or at least in the central Europe (i don't know anything about the etymology of familly name) and second because the N had an occult department (Thule if I remember well), so if by coincidence (or not) they discovered the work at the origins of the Vanderboom elixir (we don't know where they found this knowledge at first) we could have maybe an interesting story where we would know more about the theories and mechanics behind the cube and the elixir. 🤔
The cubes have a link with memories, they are memories.
And I think that if someone want to truly ascend and be the equivalent of a god, he need to have pure memories, so he can reincarnate and maybe navigate through the memories of his past lives (it's my theory)
rich crest
So is there a chance that William knows about the white cubes (so he can reincarnate)? Because that would be a really good way to link Arles and all the others games
light cipher
I want to see a game where we could see corrupted N soldiers, just for the idea (I am a big fan of dystopies and uchronies so I would find it quite fun)
I think that he knew but that there is no link with Arles sadly
He died in 1859 and could reincarnate only with a blood related family member, and it's done in 1935. And Arles took place in 1888 I think
But really I could well see a game during the WWII because I just thought but if there is a need to have "pure memories" to don't turn crazy or corrupted, how a N could succeed to ascend with all the horrors they were doing, it would be impossible.
covert wyvern
Van in this case is Dutch. Van der boom is literally from the tree, van der meer from the lake.
grizzled bluff
So what I'm gathering is that it's time to approach this like the Zelda timeline
covert wyvern
In my humble opinion.
polar warren
Yeah I mean, seasons is deffinately before lake BUT I JUST WANNA KNOW WHY PEOPLE KEEP PUTTING LAKE BEFORE
polar warren
I'm not strong on timelines
covert wyvern
fair enough
light cipher
One small question, but like we talk about timelines it's quite important, in Paradise, we have a date on the letter about the death of our mother but did we assume that we come on the island the same day (so the letter was written, send and received, and we decided to go on the island the same day) or that there is a small gap of time between the two? And if so, it would be after what period of time?
Because, we see in roots that sometimes, the delivery service of the lake was.... A bit long, Frank is a good example of that.
covert wyvern
I do think delivery of the Letter took a moment
No transportation service is instantly.
But I highly doubt timelines will get messed up with just a few days.
light cipher
Yeah, but it's just to be sure we don't have a second Frank or James and that the letter took one year or more to reach him
vague imp
i mean today your package could take 2+ weeks to arrive
so back then it took months, maybe a year even [if it ever arrived]
light cipher
Exactly
covert wyvern
depending on where you lived.
vague imp
we surely didn't have ubers back then..XD
covert wyvern
3 days from london to bath
that's 115 miles
/ 3
so a letter travelered approximately 39 miles a day
or 61 km/
light cipher
We don't know where he lived before but maybe took him a long time to come on the island (it took one year to James to came get his house in roots, if we assume that the date of "death" of his uncle is spring 1859)
vague imp
lmao Rusty Lake is a valley surrounded by mountains..
i wonder how long it took him do climb over that
light cipher
Hum, we need to remember that the delivery service of the lake is Harvey and that he has a... Strange sense of the timing
vague imp
it's a bird they got lost easily letters hardly arrived to the correct person
so maybe 10+ people read Emmas letter
light cipher
It's not a simple bird
vague imp
yeah i know but still people would be curious and catch that pigeon bird
light cipher
No, it was still in the tube
vague imp
they could've placed it back in..XD
light cipher
Not sure that he would let be caught like this
vague imp
Harvey can easily be lured with seeds
light cipher
I think that he just took the letter, than stay 20+ years at the hotel than see frank reach out of the well and said to himself "S*** I knew that I forgetted to do something"
vague imp
but anyways i think many people read the letter, placed it back in but that's not really important more of a "inbetween"
lmao would be funny if it was canon tho
light cipher
And just to retalk About Paradise, we need to know if Jacob (if I remember the name) wanted to go back on the island quickly or if he took his time and if he not take a big moment of reflexion before decided to do so.
vague imp
Personally i think he would've been susp i mean his father wanted do ||kill him || since he was a child
I don't think Jakob is stupid?Maybe too trusting, but not stupid.
light cipher
So we could assume it took him at least several months, or maybe years to decide to go back on the island
Maybe more months than years because it still his mother and we don't want to totally break down the timeline, but still, we can't even be sure to the date of beginning of the RL story
vague imp
maybe idk if the letter had a date on it
vague imp
okok
light cipher
22 april 1796 on the letter
vague imp
huh..and Jacob arrives at paradise when?
light cipher
We don't have a date I think
vague imp
Jacob likely took a few months do come back since it happens in the same year 1796
light cipher
We know that it may be 15 years since he leave the island, but we don't have a more precise date
polar warren
Where'd he even live though
vague imp
who knows
light cipher
If we want to make a really really short circuit between all the character, we could assume that it was maybe him who built at first the house that will become the Vanderboom house, but I have serious doubt about it
But if it was the case, it could take him just some weeks to think about going back on the island and we would know where he lived
Even if it could be the link between the Eilander and the Vanderboom, he made the house maybe build the cave that will become the lab (someone said that the cave was maybe the lab of Caroline, but I am not sure why it would be the case)
light cipher
Hey, I was thinking, in Birthday, it's a pistol that Mr Rabbit want to steal to the Vandermeer and he said that it was a substance frome one of his past lives, how a pistol can be a substance? I thought it was organic stuff like for exemple the organs sacrifices of the Vanderboom
And by looking on the general chat, I also think, what are we sure about the death of Laura Vanderboom?
covert wyvern
That she died.
light cipher
Thank you, really, I would never knew that without your message, really thank you. 👍
covert wyvern
LMAO NO BUT LIKE
We know that: she died.
I personally assume she committed suicide.
we know Bob didn't kill her, and I doubt the paradox ending where dale slits her throat is reality.
light cipher
Huuuum it's still an option
vague imp
Laura had depresion right?
vague imp
Same here
light cipher
Because, if there is no hints of murder or suicide, it could be that the killer was someone who could make the hints disappear
She is not possessed, she Is william
covert wyvern
again,
I still subscribe to the two souls one body theory.
I do not agree with you.
light cipher
But her birth was directly a product of the samsara ritual of Rose, and we see the corrupted soul of William waiting in the tree 🤔
covert wyvern
yes.
I agree.
her birth is by all means the result of a ritual
but if she was william, aka; his soul
I reckon she'd have a recollection of the lake,
she'd also probably never be into bob
if she was william,
light cipher
Except if the processus of reincarnation has some flaws, like maybe she hasn't her memory of her past live at first
covert wyvern
a good argument
light cipher
Or at least not all her memories
covert wyvern
but who would murder william.
light cipher
Mr Rabbit?
light cipher
He is the only one who have a more stranger state than the others in Hotel
And I was thinking, IF Dale become Mr Rabbit at the end and not the next Mr Owl (because Mr Rabbit need to be linked to his familly with birthday) it could be a vengeance from the future against the Vanderboom Familly and a closing of the timeloop
covert wyvern
If Dale becomes enlightened,
he becomes Mr deer.
all evidence points towards that
light cipher
We are not sure
covert wyvern
I think Dales mask of choice the deer confirms that.
however I agree that we need more mr rabbit information lol
light cipher
A secret of paradox points toward Mr Owl and the appareance of Mr Rabbit in birthday are quite confusing
light cipher
I almost never go on reddit so I don't know 🤔
I just went once to know the solution to access Thoorn account in TWD
covert wyvern
fair.
light cipher
So maybe the fate of Dale is not totally written?
covert wyvern
nah but like
grizzled bluff
He is Not Quite a Deer
covert wyvern
im starting to think that in one of the story lines
Laura actually DOES Ascend
but I really dont know
vague imp
How?
covert wyvern
I havent worked it out yet,m
vague imp
Can you explain more please?
covert wyvern
Okay so
paradox ye
both Chapter one and two follow eachother,
and dale
wins
so to speak
paradox THE MOVIE SECRET ENDING
we drink the elixir and die
or dale,m
that means that someone else ascended,
in my headcanon anyway
light cipher
I am lost a bit with paradox with what is canon xD
covert wyvern
Ye me too!
but if I decide to split the timelines i have an easier time putting it all together.
light cipher
But we still need more pieces, at least to know what happens in winter 1981
It's the Zelda syndrome
light cipher
When it's become to much a mess, split the all between timelines
grizzled bluff
It really is going to be like the Zelda timeline
covert wyvern
I say as shes typing a message
light cipher
I want a story during WWII!!
grizzled bluff
Roots implied so many tasty things about the history of this world
I want to see more
light cipher
Yep
covert wyvern
I think roots is tricky.
light cipher
I want to see N trying to ascend just to become corrupted souls because they are horrible
covert wyvern
I think anything not depicting Rusty Lake is tricky.
because eventually RL will have to pick a location
light cipher
You see rusty lake in newspaper in Roots
grizzled bluff
True, especially since a lot of those moments were snap shots more than anything
But it would be nice to see
light cipher
We already know it's in the USA with TWD arg
grizzled bluff
For all we know it moves around lmao
It's some weird eldritch lake that attracts some very weird entities
Any lake can become Rusty Lake under the right circumstances
There,t hat's my theory
covert wyvern
ah but you'd be mistaken.
light cipher
We are in RL, not in LOST
covert wyvern
TWD just collected people all over the world.
light cipher
Yes but Robert Hill is American and he met Laura Vanderboom
light cipher
The sarah episode of TWD and the info of the cube location of Robert in the arg
covert wyvern
ah yes New york,
you're quite right.
my main issue is the client ID
Hill, Year of birth, RL.
LeeghWater, NL
NL being the Netherlands.
so I assume Rusty Lake is either Region or country of origin.
United States.
light cipher
The USA is the only country where there are two persons that was kidnapped 🤔
vague imp
LMAO
light cipher
I think the cube appears where the person used to live
covert wyvern
altho if we assume that the motorcycle in roots was american
that would put RL in the US yes.
vague imp
It was Harley Davidson ye?
light cipher
Well, Leonard go to the war but in which year?
covert wyvern
checking now./
vague imp
It is start of WW1
light cipher
Spring 1914
covert wyvern
also his uniform is distinctly british.
light cipher
Huuuuum but we should be cautious, roots has some mistakes with dates
covert wyvern
I assume any dates printed to be canon.
vague imp
Roots are very tricky
grizzled bluff
Do we have any actual evidence history, geography and national relations are the same?
International
grizzled bluff
Right, because to me, every time someone digs, they find contradictions
light cipher
Van Gogh is Netherland, we should remember it too
grizzled bluff
Consistent within the series, contradicting our reality
covert wyvern
in which the US joined WW1 right away?
grizzled bluff
And I somehow doubt they just failed History and Geography that badly in school
covert wyvern
Van Gogh is very dutch.
grizzled bluff
Tough to forget for us XD
covert wyvern
:))
light cipher
Oh you're Dutch?
grizzled bluff
Yep!
covert wyvern
both of us are, yes.
grizzled bluff
Funny coincidence, we met in the Dutch ARG chat
covert wyvern
:))
grizzled bluff
(Also why, I'm assuming, Damy grabbed the Leeghwater ID that quickly)
covert wyvern
I just distinctly remember it having NL in the patient ID
grizzled bluff
...wait why is this dude called empty water
light cipher
Ooooh cool, I'm Belgian
grizzled bluff
vanderboom and vandermeer are both like, important clues
light cipher
Sadly, no traces of RL in Belgium
covert wyvern
I mean all we have is the RL office
which,m
I guess,
Is the source of it all,
really.
light cipher
RL office?
light cipher
Ah, huuuum else I didn't know, else I forgot
covert wyvern
part of me wishes RL is a location in the netherlands, but we don't have the mountains ;p
I always just sort of assumed europe
but it could be an anomaly in time
or space*
grizzled bluff
I'm gonna assume this water (which is definitely a lake and not a river, shhhh) is Rusty Lake
covert wyvern
that just sort of manifests roads to everywhere in the world.
grizzled bluff
(If you wonder, the block buildings are where their office is)
covert wyvern
het Ei is Rusty Lake confirmed.
light cipher
If it's in Germany, I NEED to know in which camp rose and Laura was during WWII xD
covert wyvern
a camp?
light cipher
(I mean camp between Allies and Nazis , not the nazis camp)
covert wyvern
I highly doubt war had any real impact on Rusty Lake,
tbh the world war one bit in roots is a real oddity imo
grizzled bluff
I'm gonna assume allies, because I doubt they would turn their partial protagonists into nazis
covert wyvern
but we should definitely not dig into this,
because politics are against the rules 😄
grizzled bluff
I agree
light cipher
Yes, but some rich familly, specialised in alchemy, what is their politic camp?
covert wyvern
it's not relevant.
light cipher
Ooooos forget my question then xD
covert wyvern
I shall 😉
light cipher
Even if it could be interesting
covert wyvern
interesting as it may be! it has no place in this discord server.
light cipher
Yes, but just asking the question has his place in the theory subject at least if it don't become a political s***storm
covert wyvern
asking the question may have a place in theorising,
light cipher
Because, that we want it or not, politics exist and this is a world similar to ours, so they are concerned too.
covert wyvern
but the rules extend to ever channel,
and I will time you out if you continue to prod this beehive.
grizzled bluff
Asking whether important characters were potentially nazis is an incredibly politically charged question, which is why we don't want to continue that conversation
light cipher
OK ok, I don't say anything 😅
Oh it's just that we have already the answer for the WW1 with the "War Hero" episode in roots, so the question comes naturally after for what the familly could become under the ruling of Rose (as she and Laura are the only members still "alive", Aldous is similar to a god so he isn't include in the question)
light cipher
Yes, but she is the only adult remaining, so her will rules xD
covert wyvern
I suppose, but if you're entire fate is be the vessel to rebirth one of your ancestors, your will doesnt matter much.
light cipher
Even if the ancestor in question success to rebirth and is just a baby for several years?
covert wyvern
Ye Rose would have to play mother, but I doubt Lauras childhood wouldn't change much if the rest of her family was around.
light cipher
Huuuum even if Albert was still alive? XD
covert wyvern
eh he'd be the creepy uncle, for sure.
but I dont think he has reasons for hurting Laura,
all of his other deeds are in a sense "justified"
light cipher
Huuuum throwing an innocent child in a well and torturing him for decades?
covert wyvern
he was bullied as a child,
that was an act of revenge,
is it a good act
of course not
but in alberts eyes, he was completely justified.
light cipher
Yes, but why on Frank and not on Leonard?
Yes, but your logic can still apply to Laura too in this case
covert wyvern
what did Laura ever do to Frank? be born?
light cipher
Huuuum yes
If he is a really really REALLY protective father over Rose, seeing her pregnant with no idea of who is the father could be a reason to anger him
grizzled bluff
Rose was never pregnant, was she? Unless I'm misremembering, Laura just appeared.
light cipher
Yes, not sure he will be cool with that even if he understands why it happened
She was trapped in a clock for several months, it's count like a pregnancy
grizzled bluff
Are we now assuming Rusty Lake also has high levels of sodium carbonate? Are we going to find mummified bodies in it in later games? (Context in General)
covert wyvern
sorry to burst your mummified bubble :((
grizzled bluff
Seems about as reasonable
covert wyvern
I suppose. lmao
polar warren
Well... Thing with rusty lake is, its not that rusty red durring daytime
rich crest
Except if the processus of reincarnation has some flaws, like maybe she hasn't her memory of her past live at first
@light cipher
I have a small theory about that
What if the William's memory needs a trigger? Something that, when Laura sees William's kinda take control?
Let's say that Laura would need to have certain level of awareness and conscience to achieve William's memories
I mean, if William tried to put all his memories in a child's head, maybe he could corrupt her
So he waited, and maybe the required level of awareness was achieved after she met Bob
It would justify the break up
It's just a theory, don't take it so serious
We can see in twd that she's drawing a familiar place, and this place is the lake
And it happened when they were in the beginning of the relationship
covert wyvern
A good point, but this only happens when all the trees are tapped, probably as a reference to roots
So here too it's hard to argue what the 'canon' event is
rich crest
Yeah, it's really hard to say what is Laura's canon
light cipher
Maybe everything is canon
covert wyvern
Wouldn't surprise me, but I do like to believe RL considers certain events more canon than others
light cipher
Maybe the fact that we need to tap all the trees to got this drawing is just that we took more time to reach her and so she was on an other page of her book
covert wyvern
Ahaha honestly that's a thing I can get behind
light cipher
And she was completing a drawing that she had started since some times
It's the true principle of multiple endings :not necessarily give you points of view on alternate universes, but give you multiple points of view on events
And the truth is just at the crossing of the roads
It would be interesting to crossed the multiple endings and secrets of paradox, just to see what it told
stuck tulip
A couple went to a hotel in a middle of an island, the husband herd a sound. As curious as he was he was looking to where that sound came from. When he found what made the he was greated to a bird. The bird-person ran away,the husband thought he was going to ran after it (something like that), and he say 2 cubes on the ground;one white one black. He didn't knew back then but these cubes let him travel to different dementions.
Or something like that
Or a really stressed man going through war
covert wyvern
and this is a theory for which game? ;p
covert wyvern
it sounds more like a fanfic prompt if anything in my opinion 😅
hollow comet
how Aldous Vanderboom met Mr Owl
upper drift
how Aldous Vanderboom met Mr Owl
Pfft LOL
But I still wonder how they even knew each other.
upper drift
Lol yes.
All 3 planned the whole thing out. I suppose
Before drinking that elixir..
Also uh..
Mr. Owl can shape shift right?
Into an owl?
covert wyvern
idk can he
polar warren
Aldous just drank the elixir and was like "ah. Well, cya bro! I gtg see Mr owl"
upper drift
Ikr
stuck tulip
and this is a theory for which game? ;p
@covert wyvern
All lol
peak solar
There's two stories to follow.
- Elixir-living forever
- Enlightenment-free from samsara.
I think Nicholas was going after Enlightenment while Caroline found the Elixir (maybe why she was willing to sacrifice herself).
vague imp
Nicholas?
peak solar
That is interesting to think about the grandfather and when Elizabeth says "Fear did not make me blind".
From Paradise
upper drift
Nicholas?
Nicholas Eilander
polar warren
Eliander*
tight geyser
maybe Nicholas sacrificed his father in due time?
hollow comet
@vague imp Hotel happens in 1893
hollow comet
and as I said, 1853 is when Van Gogh was born
perhaps that and the boat is just their way to connect Arles to the rest of the arc
and considering that Van Gogh was born in the Netherlands, could he have been born in the Hotel?
LMAO
hollow comet
yeah I was kinda looking through the timeline and '1853' and Van Gogh appeared together
that's how I got it lol
light cipher
Hey, I was thinking about a subject of theorisation: what could be, on base of what we can see in the Canon, others totally different fantastic elements that could exist in the RL universe?
If I m not clear, I give an exemple: We saw all along the series with the existence of the corrupted souls and the cubes, etc that the concept of soul totally exist in the RL Universe, so would it could means that, apart of all the alchemist plot, that ghosts could naturally exist in the RL universe? There are just wandering souls if we compare to the common myths about them.
And if we confirm that, could others types of spirits exists in the RL Universe than just humans or animals spirits?
vague imp
I would say anything's possible, but if they don't give any hints to that, there's no reason for us to theorise too much upon it. But I do think that the universe of Rusty Lake can be far greater than we expect, it just depends on what the developers want to do with it...
light cipher
Yeah, I agree but we need to remember that the developers are just humans like us and can't have all the ressources to explore in all the ways their universe. So, even if they don't talk about some others elements totally disconnect of the main plot or give just subtile hints by the confirmation of the existence of some concept, it shouldn't be a brake to us to theorise about others subjects we never see and perhaps never will see in the games, and it could give some materials , if they are motivated fans that pass on the subject, to create more fanwork on the universe
Fanworks that at term, could be insert inside the Canon if the developers are really fan of it, we never should forget that even us can contribute to expand this universe.
vague imp
I know its impossible for them to do everything, but they are the creators, so we could dream all we want, if its canon or not its out of our hands. What we can do is kind of fanfics, which is totally acceptible, but if it was just made by fans its not really something to fit in a theory. If what you belive in, far fetched as it looks, can be back up with canon arguments then it works.
light cipher
Ah I don't said that I particularly believe in ghost, souls or spirits but it was the first exemple that came in my mind to demonstrate my question
And yeah, it's totally out of our hands to made our theories canon or not, but if we don't even made them because the developers don't talk about these subjects, we won't avance a lot and they don't have the time or the capabilities to read our mind and guess of fantheories that we never said xD
vague imp
And I agree with you. There might be a lot more crazy things in the universe. Maybe other myths like the elixir turn out to be real. But just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's true, so the theories we make need to be somewhat contained in the "facts". In the sense of fan theories I agree we should tell them, maybe they even like it and add to the canon, but I really don't know how much they have written that we don't know, so is hard to say anything
But we shouldn't stop having our crazy theories, for me is one of the best parts of the Rusty Lake games
light cipher
So, I ask you the question with to start (if you have others ideas, don't hesitate) the idea I use to demonstrate: do you think on base of what you see in the games that for exemples or ghost, Demons or others spirits entities could exist in the RL universe?
vague imp
Demons and other spirit entities I find harder, I don't even know how would that be, but ghost are probably real
What I'm most interessed about usually is the relationships. I think Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl for example might not be as friends as we think. The way they talk and stuff, I want to know more about how they've met and stuff, because I think a big thing might be that they're actually mortal enemies 😆
light cipher
Maybe not mortal enemies, but i also think that if Mr Crow would have a way to succeed in his plan to be a god and get rid of Mr Owl in the process, he wouldn't hesitate a moment
And also, what would be a "god" in this universe?
I mean, it's cool for them if they can see memories, travel in times by the bias of their past and futures lives, but except if they decide to travel in all their lives at the same time, they won't take over the world and they still don't have real over human capabilities except the fact that they are nearly immortal
vague imp
I started to think this playing The Mill, they just seem to be in different wave lenghts. I don't like to think of a god persona. I think there might be a source of power that they tap onto, but i don't think there's a actual personification.
light cipher
Ah I don't said that there was a god, I said that they want to become "gods" whatever it means for them, we can see this with the sanskrit writings in several games
vague imp
Their plan is something that I don't fully understand. I think their plan is far more intricate than immortality, but I don't think it has to do with taking over the world. Maybe one of them might be crazy for power and that is the source of their misunderstandings
light cipher
And also, other question but where stop exactly the past lifes memory travel ability? I mean, If we go back far enough we all have common ancestor.
I don't know, but if they choose the word "gods" I don't think that they don't want to have great consequences on the order of things, they would be terrible gods in other way if they do nothing of their days
vague imp
I think this is too much out of my realm of theories. I love to think about the games but we can go to a infinte rabbit hole. About their powers, Dale is kind of bringing Mr. Owl the Golden Cube, which is "the key not only to the past, but also, to the future". Why does he want the key to the future we don't know
light cipher
We have a mention of demon, demigod and god, so my theory about possibly others spirits entities existing is not so far fetched
The reason for them to want to see the future could be quite obvious: if they see the future by theirs futures lives, they could predict a lot of things
And we saw that some people like Ida have the capability to show glimpses of the future.
vague imp
I think, especially because it's written in sanskrit, that this may not be supposed to be taken literally, but I dont know. They probably want to change the future, but why and how, just so the future can be exacly what they want ? If this is the case, the main plot might be that one of them wants this, and the other dont. Hard to know
light cipher
We don't really have antagonistic faction in the RL Universe so it's hard to tell, we just have peoples who want to survive, some that don't ask anything but are taken away with the plot, some that want to know the truth and a bunch that just do theirs plans and shoot in each others legs
It's cool because it's not a binary world but it's true that it makes the final outcomes of many characters very hard to just theorise
vague imp
Something in the future might change my mind, but right now I think Mr. Owl and Mr. Crow will fall apart for having different agendas. What I think more is what fits the "facts" we have together, and not what goes beyond it. This year we probably wont be getting another game besides Cube Escape Collection, but the game I'm most looking foward to is the 10000 BC. I think we'll learn so much about the future
light cipher
And if we agree that ghost probably exist, does the capability of Ida to predict the future could make that other types of psychics capabilities could exist in the RL Universe?
vague imp
I dont think this matters much to be honest
light cipher
After all, we see Albert Vanderboom kill people with vaudoo dolls, so talismans and rituals works in this universe
It's not matter a lot for now, but who knows for the future?
vague imp
For the future, we'll definetly see Albert again, they've already hinted to it
light cipher
For an exemple, that is very far fetched this one, if we bring together the existence of a sort of "ritual magic", PSY capabilities, alchemy and existence of spirits, they could tell us alternate stories about real world events.
For exemple, the trials of Salem, we know that it was just innocents peoples that were brutally executed by a band of psycho (my opinion), but in the RL Universe it could be something else
vague imp
Not impossible, we've seen references to the plague and the war
Every crazy event we've had in our history might have different reasons in rusty lake
light cipher
Yeah, so you see now why I ask first to theorise about these others facts and subjects that could have an other enlightenment in the RL Universe
If someone do a fanzine or something else about a cult that venerate cubes and all, I would buy this shit xD
vague imp
I think you can think about them, but it doesn't get anywhere. Theories usually thy to explain things, not go beyond it
It's fun but not very helpful now. We shouldn't stop because maybe in the future it might be
light cipher
Yeah, but it's became a little repetitive after a moment, when we have already theorise about all we knows (or at least all that we think about) , without news elements, we start to be bored and this kind of far-beyond theories is quite stimulating and it kills time
But if there was an FAQ where we could ask these questions (maybe there is, I don't know) it would be great.
vague imp
There's still many questions unanswered. I would like them to be answerd, but at the right time
In the mean time we can just wait
light cipher
Yeah but some have just not enough elements to create constructive theories that could be what futures games reserve us, like the final plans of Mr Owl and Mr Crow.
And yeah we can just wait and continue to theorise about everything
But, the idea of a FAQ to expand the limits of the universe without obligatory promise that futures games or others products will talk of that could be a great thing I think.