🤔｜theories

[plucky swallow]

That would make sense

[vague imp]

But then

[plucky swallow]

Or at least are attracted to them

[vague imp]

How can laura not be contained in it

Wait

[plucky swallow]

Or they are parts of the same entity

[gleaming dragon]

That could be why there’s a corrupted and uncorrupted of each

[vague imp]

How can Caroline not get contained

Because she got corrupted because of 10 memories

And dale was able to fight two black cubes

And still manage to not get corrupted

[weak patrol]

For Dale
He is still alive

And the lake is changing his memories too

But

[vague imp]

Yeah but i mean

[weak patrol]

The last scene in the cave

[plucky swallow]

The corruption supposedly just comes from the extraction of memories, sakes memories weren’t really extracted in the same way

[vague imp]

He was also getting corrupted

[weak patrol]

In the white room

Yeah

That

[vague imp]

He is flicking in the elevator

Like changing back and forth

[plucky swallow]

Plus it doesn’t say the extraction always causes corruption, just you have to be careful

[vague imp]

Because he is reliving his past

[weak patrol]

Maybe he is slightly corrupted

[vague imp]

Ik

[plucky swallow]

^

[vague imp]

Because he is actually fighting it

And baring it

[plucky swallow]

You do see a corruption in the theatre mirror

[vague imp]

But that’s not what my point here tho

[plucky swallow]

That could be his

Possibly

[vague imp]

It’s how can the corrupted souls appear from black cubes

But Laura gets a black cube extracted to become a c soul

And Caroline too gets ten memories scattered throughout the island to get corrupted

Whereas the guests in hotel get their memories extracted and contained in a weird machine that also can show their c souls

[weak patrol]

When she is burned alive
The memories are also extracted?

[vague imp]

Yes

[plucky swallow]

I think the lake took her memories in that case

She was a sacrifice

[vague imp]

I know that but I mean

Like those cubes aren’t her corrupted soul

But the cubes of the guests are

If you understand what I’m saying

I really don’t know how to word it better

[plucky swallow]

They may be her corrupted soul

[vague imp]

Nope because we already see her c soul

[plucky swallow]

?

[vague imp]

In paradise

The hungry ghost is Caroline

[plucky swallow]

When memories are extracted, it creates a cube and may produce a soul, the cubes and the souls aren’t necessarily the same thing

We don’t have a lot of info on their connection

[vague imp]

There aren’t that’s true

But mr owl says that the negative memories when extracted can corrupt the soul

Not produce a corrupted soul

But that’s not the case in hotel

Because in a way we don’t understand the cubes show the corrupted souls

As if the cubes are the source or essence of those corrupted souls

But it’s not the case in laura or Caroline

[weak patrol]

Maybe like I was saying
They are maybe experiments too by Mr. Owl
He extracted their bad memories and turned them into c soul
So, he attampted to make them into a cube which completely failed cause they escaped
They goes to the lake to

[vague imp]

But is the same in bob’s

[weak patrol]

Oh sorry
I was kinda blacked out for a moment

[vague imp]

Hm I suppose it’s true

I like the idea of mr owl experimenting on them

[weak patrol]

I'll continue the explanation
So their memories now maybe in the lake
And somehow their black cubes cam control them, cause it's the substance of past life?

[vague imp]

I guess your right

Because it is their essence in a way

Thanks for the debate

I had a great time chatting with you regarding it : )

[weak patrol]

Me too
Thanks for the time

[vague imp]

Np

[plucky swallow]

There are 11 known corrupted souls, five were created by unknown means, 2 were created from some sort of sacrifice to the lake, 2 were created from memory extraction, 1 was created by suicide, and 1 was created from taking the elixir

Something like that

(5 guests, dale and Caroline, Laura and Bob, Van Gogh, and William”

[vague imp]

Was van gogh created by suicide?

He used the gun to shoot his c soul

And those 5 guests were probably made corrupted by memory extraction

Because the strange machines that contained them looked like old versions of the extractor in the mill

[plucky swallow]

The wiki says they are just tanks to store the cubes, but then again it is the wiki

Which is formed of opinion

Tbh Van Gogh is the outlier if the series, so I’m not sure what happens on it really has an effect on anything else

You’re right though, it was more like he was trying to kill his corruption

Which worked I guess because it made a white cube

[vague imp]

Mhm!

I think van gogh’s story in the beginning doesn’t really fit within the series because it was at its earliest stages

And probably they could be either cube holders or necessary for extracting cubes but either way it’s related to corrupted souls but I personally believe that they were an old version of the current extractor we have

But then again it’s only my opinion and no one is obligated to believe in it because it’s not the fact so 🙂

[karmic crest]

van gogh

van derboom

they're related in some way

[plucky swallow]

Van is very common in dutch names

Although it would be cool if they had a connection

[karmic crest]

but that's just a theory

A ga-

[frosty hamlet]

me theory

[gleaming dragon]

My theory I’ve stated before and cba to retype it

[rugged cave]

Not so much a big plot/lore theory, but I have a theory that Alfred has Marfan Syndrome. Based absolutely on no evidence other than the fact that he is tall and skinny and seems to have long fingers. That is all, goodnigth

[weak patrol]

Alfred?
Who is Alfred?

Oh

[spice frigate]

they surely mean Albert

[weak patrol]

You meant Albert?

[rugged cave]

Oof

Yeet

I did

[vague imp]

@loud rover
well i was able to calculate his age after finding out aout his date of birth in paradox
it says jakob was born in 1775 and that makes him 21 in 1796
if you look at the photo frame in the first (second? i dont remember which plague) you will see his young self and if you click on it jakob will say that it was him 15 years ago
that makes him six years old at the timee of the ritual
so its a very strong possibility that he doesnt remember a lot of his childhood on paradise island even without a cause of trauma
you know since children can easily forget about their past
so imagine if that child got scarred mentally making him develop trauma that made him forget about major details about his past
jakob was only able to remember he had a family on paradise before he decided to go there and that was about it
so imo both his age at the time being very young and the fact he developed trauma played a very big part of jakob forgetting his memories
heck i would say they are the actual reason

[loud rover]

Oop, sorry. Just woke up

[manic glade]

@loud rover Harvey's box occurs 70 years or so after Hotel though

My understanding is that it's Harvey being brought to the Cabin by Laura when she goes in 1969

[plucky swallow]

Yeah you can see the cabin roof at the very end

Those are from the beginning at Laura's house

And those are from the end

and then of course

[night forge]

I want a box just like that for my house now

[plucky swallow]

You could keep matches in it 🙂

[vague imp]

So my friend said that she thinks harvey isn’t a native to Europe and that his human form is actually african

[gleaming dragon]

Yeah that makes sense

[vague imp]

the theory is that all of the enlightened characters (in exception to harvey) are all native to Europe (deer , owl , crow etc)

However african greys don’t originate from Europe

And that they do originate in Africa

So she believes that harvey’s human form is african and not a european

[gleaming dragon]

Yeah but this is a European vs American pigeon

That’s Mrs, Pigeon

To me, she looks more like the American

[vague imp]

Ah i see

But i have seen those American pigeons in Europe tho

A lot in the streets

[gleaming dragon]

Really?

Interesting

[vague imp]

Yeah

[plucky swallow]

The top are what the street pigeons look like where I live

in Canada

[gleaming dragon]

Canada is part of North America

I never said the US

[plucky swallow]

yeah Ik, I was just saying what they look like here

Is the top one European?

[gleaming dragon]

The skinny one is European

[plucky swallow]

Ok that makes sense

Then Ms Pigeon definitely looks American

[vague imp]

Well as i said before i have seen some “American” pigeons in Europe

So idk really

Maybe they are more famous in America perhaps?

But either way those pigeons do exist in Europe

The colorful breasted ones are the ones in my Euro country

I saw tons of them in Germany and italy

[humble wagon]

Do you think Albert would have turned out differently if he wasn’t given a bottle of wine to drink as a newborn baby?

[plucky swallow]

I visited Europe and I only saw the fat pigeons, I've never seen the skinny ones

I think the large ones must be pretty common all over

[vague imp]

Not really @humble wagon because remember that his siblings would’ve bullied him anyways

I am aware of the possibility that the wine helped damage his mentality

Copious amounts of alcohol at such a young age could cause physical changes in his brain

But it’s not the only reason despite it playing a good role in it possibly

Psychopaths are thought of as being brought about in a "perfect storm" of events

But it's still widely unknown

i see

If one of those elements were to be removed, he may well have been more "normal"

Well not really “normal” he would’ve still go through being bullied by people

And eventually he will snap

Plenty of people get bullied harshly and end up going on to be functioning members of society

We don’t know for sure if albert consumed wine all the time in his childhood tho

Wine played a factor of damaging him but honestly I think he would’ve still become a psychopath even if he didn’t drink wine before

[humble wagon]

Yeah but like after being bullied by his siblings his first thought was

“Yeah...i’ll kill them”

[rugged cave]

I think there were a lot of things making Albert the way he was

[humble wagon]

Like that’s certainly not a normal jump

[rugged cave]

Alcohol was one of them

We don't really know how he or his siblings were raised

[humble wagon]

Who knows maybe there is an alternate timeline where Albert was never

Well...Albert.

[rugged cave]

Other than the fact that his parents gave him wine

[humble wagon]

Or like what if James DID achieve immortality

There are so many “what if” ideas in Roots

[spice frigate]

We don't know much of Albert's past - who knows maybe he felt like eliminating his siblings could make him feel better thus psychosis kicking in (Albert wanted to kill frank of course if he'd won chess part). Idk why but I understand it this way

[humble wagon]

Was everyone aware of needing to collect sacrifices?

James probably knew, he found the alchemy lair

[spice frigate]

Rose 100% knew
James and albert also probably?

[humble wagon]

I feel like Albert knew, he already had weird capabilities with his masks

And his voodoo stuff

And later on tube baby stuff

Frank and Leonard probably knew after Rose told them

So that leaves Mary, Emma, Samuel and Ida

I think Ida knew because she has psychic stuff going on

[simple musk]

A bit about pigeons
First pic is Columba livia - a very common bird in both America and Europe, the one you will see in cities
Second pic - looks like Columba palumbus but lacks white spot on the neck so I'd say it's juvenile. It's a common bird in Europe but you won't see it in any of big cities, it usually lives in rural areas

[spice frigate]

My neighbors have pigeons (actually a lot of them) i could come by and check, since i live in pretty rural area

[simple musk]

There are few hundred species of pigeons but my guess would be that Mrs Pigeon is Columba livia? It's the most common and comes in huge variety of colors and patterns. It's a domestic pigeon so I think it kinda fits

hmm something like this maybe

Dilute blue bar pigeon (by ThunderOrb on Deviantart)

[vague imp]

They're common in my Euro country as well

[vague imp]

^^ same here

(And by here I meant when i went to visit Germany and italy)

[spice frigate]

I see those a lot in the cities, mostly when I am done riding the bus and going out from this bus stop
so yeah, this pigeon fits

[vague imp]

So could it be possible that my friend’s theory be true then in that case

It’s like i like the originality of the idea and the concept seems interesting but then again

I don’t like 100% buy into it (not denying it just like I’m not fully convinced)

[spice frigate]

Not gonna lie, sometimes some spieces come to Europe
for example, in my country there's been a lot of asian ladybugs, and they do bite

[vague imp]

Well in that case they are common in Europe
Not sure about african greys tho?

To be fully honest

[spice frigate]

African gray's are from Africa, true
but if you think about it, breeders do also exist, which may sound like they "came" from Europe since their birth if you get me?

[vague imp]

African greys are a common pet here

I do under but like I’m not really referring to breeds and/or similar types of birds (not sure what they’re called ...species? Idk) but like I’m referring to the original gray parrot

African gray*

[simple musk]

They don't live in the wild anywhere else besides Africa so I think it's a nice theory ^^

[vague imp]

I am aware that they originate from Africa but the question is are they common in Europe?

@vague imp are they there naturally or were they imported from Africa?

[spice frigate]

info from google says that they are most popular pet spieces to be kept as a pet

[vague imp]

Oh so usually imported to and bred in Europe right?

Not only Europe but ig

There are colonies which are now wild and live here

Obviously a bird originating from one place isn't native to any other place

If you don’t mind me asking but , would you perhaps know when those colonies were made?

I have no idea

Because keep in mind that harvey was found in paradise island in 1796

RL aren't British though so what I'm saying isn't of much importance regardless of dates

So I’m not sure (since I’m not good in history) but i think there weren’t colonies for pets and stuff at the time

You think there weren't or you know there weren't because you've done research lol

There's a difference

No I haven’t

I swear I didn’t

I’m still not sure

Is it tho?

Well I'm sure it's an easy thing to research, should you wish to

K i will

Is it confirmed that Harvey's an african grey?

I don’t think so lemme check

Harvey lays black eggs, whereas African greys lay white eggs

But i think that’s what everyone assumes

Harvey also has green on her body and wings

Remember that this is RL

Where birds lay black eggs

Hence why I asked if it was confirmed, as opposed to outright stating Harvey isn't an african grey

So there is surrealism doing it’s part too

[simple musk]

In Case 23 there was word "Psittacus" and that's Grey parrot's latin name so people assumed it was it's species

[vague imp]

Here’s also a thing
While I’m not trying to deny anyone from thinking that harvey is female i personally think harvey is male

Yeah an harvey looks like an african gray

Males don't lay eggs

And I’m not sure but i think that harvey was an african gray too in the movie

I know that

But remember

Harvey only laid eggs after eating some bird food

[simple musk]

And in Paradox short film it was African grey

[vague imp]

🙄

Which is safe to assume to be magical

[hollow raptor]

are you saying that harveys eggs are actually poop

[vague imp]

This is an exercise in futility lmao

Remember that emma literally got impregnatedby a flower

And mary got fertility because of some herb powder

[gleaming dragon]

So basically there’s only two birds that lay black eggs

[vague imp]

So we can say that flowers or plants do have some kind of fertility capabilities

[gleaming dragon]

That black chicken which is completely black

And this

I think it’s safe to say Harvey is neither of those

[vague imp]

And we can’t really compare logic in Rusty Lake

[gleaming dragon]

I have a feeling the black eggs are because of the lake

[vague imp]

Because dale literally puked a key after drinking a liquid vial

[gleaming dragon]

Like, corrupted soul or the black cubes

[vague imp]

Yeah it is because of the lake

Or in relation to it

It is also the description of RL

“Where birds lay black eggs”

Implying that it is surreal and unnatural

[simple musk]

in roots you had to make black egg to finish elixer so I would guess black eggs in rusty lake have some magical properties

[vague imp]

So i think harvey is male because harvey is a male name (correct me if I’m wrong because I honestly don’t know if it’s also female too)
And we never saw him lay eggs before eating seeds and he lays eggs directly after eating the seeds (and birds don’t do that because laying eggs immediately isn’t possible after eating something so it can imply that it was because of the seeds of the flower from theatre )

Yup @simple musk

And also a friend of mine told me that harvey only layed eggs in memories (cubes) and not irl (in rusty lake) so he says that there can be some alternation from the memories that make harvey lay eggs

So i guess that’s a possibility too

African grey isn't the only "psittacus"

[gleaming dragon]

Yeah there’s two

The timneh is a subspecies s

[vague imp]

Also of note

[gleaming dragon]

Still and African gray, kind of like border collies vs Australian Sheppard’s

[vague imp]

They're both subspecies

[gleaming dragon]

Yeah

[vague imp]

Actually no, I'm wrong

They're now classified as separate

[gleaming dragon]

They’re basically breeds

Oh so like pit bull vs American pit bull terrier?

[vague imp]

I don't know in relation to the dog comparison

No, dogs are all the same species

[gleaming dragon]

Basically American pit bull terriers are the official breed, while pit bulls are APBT and other mixes

[vague imp]

These two are now classified as separate species despite being both psittacus

[gleaming dragon]

Like the squares and triangles

[vague imp]

So they're not the same species, not the same as two different dog breeds

[gleaming dragon]

But can they interbreed?

Can they have an egg together?

[simple musk]

that's a very good question

[vague imp]

A lion and a tiger can interbreed but the offspring will be infertile, despite them being different species

[gleaming dragon]

They’re both feline

[vague imp]

But they're different species

[gleaming dragon]

Just like the birds are both psittacus

[vague imp]

But they're still different species

So we are sure that harvey can possibly be a psittacus ?

And if so he could probably be a grey right?

[gleaming dragon]

Also keep in mind this takes place before this development so it doesn’t matter our truth they’ll call him something else

[vague imp]

And if we look at harvey from the games he looks like a grey more than the other species

I don't think you can assign a breed to him given that he may "look" like one more than the other, however he also still has green patches, which african greys from what I've seen don't

I think it's a futile discussion

It could be purposefully ambiguous

And it doesn't particularly matter either way imo

[gleaming dragon]

I think it’s a matter of opinion in this case and is irrelevant to the game

[simple musk]

"One criteria for splitting up the two species was the fact that these two species don't interbreed within their natural habitat. However, hybrids have occurred in captivity. Even though these crosses are VERY rare, they are said to be viable and fertile (able to produce young)."

source: https://www.beautyofbirds.com/timnehafricangreyparrots.html

[gleaming dragon]

Interesting

So not like a mule

[vague imp]

So in the end what is harvey?

[spice frigate]

I mean, I don't think knowing "what parrot Harvey is" is that most important?
It may be just me, but I just see it as looking in the corners for anything

[vague imp]

I agree

[gleaming dragon]

I agree

[vague imp]

I know it’s not important for the games but it’s like fun to find out

[gleaming dragon]

Jinx

[vague imp]

And it gives me a sense of satisfaction personally

[gleaming dragon]

You owe me a soda

[vague imp]

I mean you can do research and give your best guess but at the end of the day he doesn't fit neatly into any of them so

So let’s try to make him close to the breeds (like let’s try to fit him in where he belongs more)

I think the african gray would fit him the most

There you go, problem solved

[gleaming dragon]

Why don’t we talk about something like

[vague imp]

YES

THANK YOU

[gleaming dragon]

How did they learn of the cubes?

Why is the lake like that?

Will it end?

[vague imp]

ILY
platonically

[humble drift]

platonically lol

[vague imp]

Note that it doesn't say african grey and could be an ambiguous "she is a parrot and also grey"

The wiki also notes that she may have been male who transformed into female

Which could've avoided a lot of this if checked in the first place lol

I mean the wiki isn’t always like 100% true

"may have been"

Because it is based on an opinion

Being the operative words there

Yup

So it is possible that harvey can be a male

[gleaming dragon]

Why are we still on the bird

[vague imp]

Maybe he has the ability to gendershift who knows?

Because in the end rusty lake is surreal and anything can be possible

Because some people want to talk about it, obviously

Well if you do want to change the subject then go ahead I’ve no problem

[gleaming dragon]

Oh this is interesting

[gleaming dragon]

The name Harvey comes up as a last name

Holy sheets I knew that it was a last name too!!!

I forgot about that!!!

That would explain why everyone else is “miss” or “mr” while Harvey is just “Harvey!”

[vague imp]

Nah

[gleaming dragon]

People call me by my last name all the time my dude

[vague imp]

We only know his name is harvey was because it was said by mr owl (who calls everyone by name for example he calls mr crow Aldous)

And

Laura really doesnt know a lot about enlightenment

The last comment is of interest to me

I haven't fact checked it

Me neither

The link they attached leads to a missing facebook post, so I can't fact check

[simple musk]

Maybe Harvey just likes going by last name XD

[vague imp]

Also an interesting read

Then if that’s how you are basing it then you are also implying that mr crow’s last name is Aldous (which is not obviously)

Calling one person by their last name doesn't mean you have to call everyone else by their last name also

Well that theory is debunked by one thing
Harvey was spotted in 1796

And he was already the same age as in now (didnt look younger)

So that implies that he drank the elixir probably before Aldous did

Heck he might have drank it before jakob

When it comes to other peoples' theories you use the "well rusty lake is magic and oftentimes absurd" to debunk them so what's to say that can't be the case for other things

Implication is a hard thing to base something on in rusty lake when such bizarre things happen

No I’m not doing that now
I’m stating a fact in paradise that harvey was found there as an easter egg

So he couldn’t have been the mother of Aldous who died early because she probably drank the elixir

Again, I’m not forcing anyone to call harvey a female and I could be wrong, but until his gender is proven it’s still speculation
So as for now i like to think (emphasis on I) that he is male

And I honestly think that harvey is his first name since mr owl calls everyone by names and as for the uniform well it can possibly be unisex? (idk the correct term) so it can be also possible

So maybe harvey can be a girl or a boy so we’re not v sure

[loud rover]

Let's just call the birb a birb.

[spice frigate]

androgynous? It's the closest thing that comes up into my mind when you mention it

[vague imp]

But i did make the theory about plant having birth and fertility capabilities so maybe that’s how harvey lays eggs

So I (at least for now) am more comfortable of calling harvey a he

[loud rover]

Valid.
I think I usually just try to use "they/them".

[spice frigate]

I also use "They/them" due for me not knowing proper gender
sure, I sometimes use "she" but it's due to Harvey's egg laying

[vague imp]

I'm of the same mindset tbh

And i use “he” due to his uniform

No one's calling you wrong

They're explaining their reasonings just as you have

Imo if it’s not annoying anyone then i will keep using “he”

[loud rover]

I think actually it's mostly they them, but then I'll accidentally switch from "he/him" to "she/her".

[vague imp]

I’m not calling her wrong either

[loud rover]

Really, I kinda of use all

[vague imp]

I’m just like re emphasizing my opinion that’s all

So here’s a question
Y’all don’t mind if i call Harvey a “he”?

No one said they minded lol

If you don’t then cool and if you do then i will try to switch

I know but I’m just saying

Because maybe people might get annoyed so that’s why I’m asking

It's a cartoon bird I don't think anyone particularly minds

Sorry if I'm coming across snippy

I usually write lol in front of everything

But that can seem sarcastic to some so

Can't win, really

No imo you’re not being snippy

So it’s cool

It's cool that you're asking if you're making anyone uncomfortable

But I think everyone's pretty much said they don't mind

Oh ok then

That’s cool then

[plucky swallow]

This channel is a lot kinder than it was a year ago

Everyone is very polite

[vague imp]

I am trying my best ^^

But I accidentally said a seemingly slur word that I wasn’t aware that it was an offensive slur word

I’ll try to be more pc then

[plucky swallow]

?

I didn’t see that

If it was an accident then no harm done 😀

[vague imp]

The bot deletes messages containing certain things

[plucky swallow]

Makes sense

[humble wagon]

I generally refer Harvey as they. Personally i like to think of them being nonbinary because honestly as a nonbinary person, i would absolutely create weird switches like that

Or hey! Maybe Harvey could even be a trans guy.

Who knows at this point really

[humble wagon]

Do all symbols from Rusty Lake have meanings

I know some of them are alchemical

[gleaming dragon]

Yes

[humble wagon]

And planetary

[gleaming dragon]

Three of them were like past present and future

It said that in paradox

[humble wagon]

And some elemental symbols

[vague imp]

There's some Sanskrit also, though that's a language rather than a symbol

[vague imp]

And sometimes there are latin

Idk I just wanted to add that

[vague imp]

So guys , there was this theory about the girl in the white door trailer being harvey

What do you guys think of it

[gleaming dragon]

Hm

[vague imp]

Personally I don’t like it

[gleaming dragon]

Sounds interesting

[vague imp]

Not that i hate it but like I’m not really convinced

About harvey
Do you think harvey is the woman in the white door trailer or do you prefer my theory about him being a guy (the one about the flowers having fertility capability)

[weak patrol]

In hotel he is guy tho

[vague imp]

yeah thats what i believe

now some people think that harvey is a girl that is dressed in a unisex? uniform in hotel

i however believe that harvey is a guy who can lay eggs either because it is his ability to gendershift/lay eggs or because of the seeds he consumes that have fertility capabilities

[humble wagon]

I mean hey, it is Rusty Lake. A dude laying eggs really wouldn’t be out of the ordinary here

[vague imp]

Exactly taro

I keep telling this to my friends and they keep shrugging that off lmao

They would always say nah it’s not possible but i keep saying that it can be

And the thing is that I’m not making a headcanon or basing the theory out of nothing
It was proven that the flowers on many occasions can grant fertility (emma becoming pregnant because of inhaling flower pollen and mary got fertility because of a herb powder)

[humble wagon]

You know, i was thinking about what Albert did to Frank.

Knowing him, Albert could have very easily killed Frank. He could make sure no one ever found the body. But the question is....why?

Now some might argue that he did for hell of it. I mean the dude already has psychopathic tendencies. He kept the same butterfly from his childhood just to kill it years later.

But this brought another idea in my mind. What if, your age matters in the sacrifices?

What if you have to be a certain age for your sacrifice to count? What if Albert was aware of this. So he waited until Frank was old enough? What if that is also another reason why he kept Leonard as well? That maybe he couldn’t get sacrifices from children.

[karmic crest]

does that mean that Albert was waiting for frank to kill him or vise versa?

[humble wagon]

Yes exactly

Same with Leonard

Why not just kill the kid as well while killing his parents?

[karmic crest]

wait so albert wanted frank to kill him?

[humble wagon]

Oh no

What i meant is that Albert kept Frank around until the kid was old enough so Albert could kill him

[karmic crest]

oh

oh

ok

I get confused

[humble wagon]

Yeah sorry haha

I don’t know. Albert’s reasons for not outright killing the kids could be more complex.

I just thought that this might also be an interesting aspect in sacrifices.

[karmic crest]

but what if albert was the exact age to be sacrificed. So would that mean that they sped up the process?

[humble wagon]

Wait what do you mean?

[spice frigate]

Could be morals - sometimes you won't outright do it. It's even heartbreaking imo.
Maybe he waited till he's grown up, and taken back from the well by Rose, so he could process by a chess match

The winner that wins, goes for the throat

[karmic crest]

like you said that you have to be a certain age to count. Like i thought like a specific age. (like 2 4 6 etc etc)

[humble wagon]

@spice frigate Hm yes. Maybe even as a guy with such tendencies

He has his own principles in a way?

Killing kids? Not okay.

Keeping them in wells until they grow up? Perfectly fine.

I don’t know man. These are all very interesting things to explore.

Honestly i think that’s why Albert has always been a character i’ve been drawn to. His psyche and thought process can be really interesting to look into.

[spice frigate]

Could be. He surely wanted to eliminate Emma and Samuel
but because Emma's death would traumatize Frank, Maybe a first way to cause havoc would be Frank "missing"

[humble wagon]

In a way, Albert and Emma interacted indirectly. Events wise.

Even though technically she didn’t cause Albert’s disfigurement, she was the one who pushed him against the tree after getting the butterfly.

Albert technically didn’t outright murder Emma. But he made her son look like “missing”, which in the end caused her to kill herself

[spice frigate]

yeah, she thought he died, thus small shrine in her (? if it's even hers) room, a memorial for her son who "died"
She couldn't bear with her sadness, that it ended up in suicidal way. But I wonder... if Frank ever knew about it after he got out

[humble wagon]

That his mom committed suicide? I think so.

It makes me wonder, would Albert tell him that? The dude liked to tease a hungry Frank with berries while laughing hysterically.

What would stop him from pushing further and gloat about Emma’s suicide to Frank?

[karmic crest]

I want to say morals, but...

[humble wagon]

“Morals” and “Albert Vanderboom” go together like Fish and Milkshake does

[karmic crest]

yeah but

no one would gloat on dude's suici- nvm

I just remembered something

[humble wagon]

Ya did huh?

[karmic crest]

yeah I just realized how people are shitty

[humble wagon]

They really are

[humble wagon]

Oh fuck

OH FUCK WAIT

IDA IS WEARING EMMA’S HAT

AAAA HOW DID I NEVER NOTICE THAT???

Emma when she was young

Ida after marriage

[bold owl]

Today on another episode of "Is This Canon Or Did The Devs Reutilize Assets"

[humble wagon]

I mean, it is Ida

But i guess you’re right it might be reuse of assets

They did with James and Mr. Deer too

[bold owl]

It's common with indie devs

Creating new assets takes time

[weak patrol]

I think James got that from William tho
I'm pretty sure he got the same clothes
Backing up this theory
His portrait in the attic and basement
Also the puzzle thing in The Cave

[weak patrol]

Also
I can say that Mary is using Emma's hat but she put a ribbon

[vague imp]

@humble wagon a friend of mine made a theory on albert (the same one who made the theory about extended family) basically he said that Albert never meant to kill frank he just wanted to imprison him in the well , let me explain why
So we know that in albert’s childhood emma took something precious from him at the time (the butterfly) (ik it’s not really precious but he wanted the butterfly and emma didn’t give it to him) and then samuel distorted his face by making the beehive fall on his face giving him the scar , in that order
So when albert grew up he first took something precious from emma which was her son in revenge of her taking the butterfly from him when they were kids so albert only meant to steal something from emma , and then when emma died albert found out in a way that she kept living through frank so he kept torturing frank but kept him alive
And then he distorted samuels face by cutting his eye from his face and that later killed him

Now i added something to this theory
Which is that albert would know that his sister would become suicidal if she lost frank so albert did what he did to both steal something special from ida to torment her AND to drive her to suicide therefore killing her indirectly

[gleaming dragon]

First, let’s compare something

A rabbit vs a hare

[vague imp]

Ok

[gleaming dragon]

The “rabbit” in hotel is not a rabbit.

[vague imp]

So a hare’s structure is taller right?

[gleaming dragon]

That is a hate

Look at the ears, the face, the eyes. They’re longer.

Now, here’s the one from Birthday. Rounder and shorter, with fully black eyes

[vague imp]

So you think that the mr rabbit in hotel is actually a hare but his corrupted soul is a rabbit?

Correct me if I’m wrong

[gleaming dragon]

They’re not even the same animal. But, for the sake of things, let’s say that they’re both rabbits. If you look at the rest of the Elianders, they all match the colors of the hybrid at the hotel, even Miss Pheasant, except for Mr Rabbit

Honestly I have no idea I kind of just realized this

Because of this picture

[vague imp]

Well there’s also one thing I’d like to point out too

[gleaming dragon]

Yes?

[vague imp]

Do you know the Easter egg in room 4

?

[gleaming dragon]

Yes

[vague imp]

The one where you stand in the window

[gleaming dragon]

Oh crap maybe his family replaced him

[vague imp]

You can see the corrupted soul of mr rabbit before he dies

If we compare that easter egg to the corrupted soul of mr rabbit in the container

You can find out that they have different sprites

Despite them being in the same game they still have different sprites

Implying that the easter egg is somewhat different than the corrupted soul in the container or indicating that there is something fishy going on

And we know that indie games usually reuse sprites for convenience

So the question is : why not reuse the same sprite of mr rabbit's c soul in the container for the c soul easter egg in room 4 instead of making a new sprite for the easter egg that can be easily missed

For the people who pay too much attention to every.tiny.detail

that small tiny pebble in a the background?Its a "clue" to some people

It could be

Now i know that rl isnt exactly the same as fnaf but in fnaf every tiny detail is important and relevant to lore purposes

And here's the thin , I'm one of those people who likes to look at details

Thing*

And the reason i think its relevant and probably important to lore is because i made a theory a while ago on that easter egg and the sprites can be a support for that theory

(btw idk if "support" is the correct word here but what i mean by it is that the difference of the sprites helped back up my theory a bit)

[dapper valley]

Even if a rabbit was mistaken for a hare
The resemblance is still very close and I'm sure that was intentional

I mean if the two Mr Rabbits weren't related to each other, why not make one of them a different animal?

[gleaming dragon]

Stolen identity? Idk

[north pasture]

YALL I SHOULD BE ASLEEP BY NOW BUT I JUST HAD AN EPIPHANY

Dale being guided to kill Laura at the end of paradox?????? That wasn’t symbolic of him murdering her in the real world, laura DID kill herself

that’s him taking away her life as a corrupted soul, making sure she’s dead for good, so that HE can be ‘enlightened’

ITS PART OF THE PROPHECY

[weak patrol]

I mean
In the mind of the future Laura said
"One of us will die, the other will be enlighten"

[north pasture]

GOD I’m gonna go apeshit when the new game comes out

I Am Hungry For Lore

Will the new game give us answers? maybe! will it probably give us more questions?? YEAH PROBABKY

[vague imp]

I think we all are but hey atleast this year we will all have time to spend the holidays with our families haha..

[north pasture]

yeah yeah!!

[spice frigate]

I will spend my holidays with family and "family" here
because love y'all

[meager plover]

Little Misfortune spoilers

also

Mr. Crows wife XD

[vague imp]

Haha i get it😄

[lofty wolf]

Hii~~

[stray osprey]

Hi

[vague imp]

Theory time :
I probably figured out why dale has a fear of fish
It’s honestly more of a headcanon than a theory, but I’ll go ahead and write it
So in ce bday , in one of the puzzles there’s a fish, implying that he had fish in his 9th birthday (you know since the events of ce bday are memories of his actual bday and that they have surrealism in it) so basically what I’m saying is that dale’s family planned to have fish for dinner on his birthday and he wasn’t the biggest fan of fish
Then after mr rabbit intrudes and kills his parents dale develops trauma and because of that trauma he developed fear of fish since trauma can make you fear and hate many things trust me

but then..if a rabbit really killed his parents..[?] huh..wouldn't he be scared of rabbits instead?

i mean by that logic he would also hate:
Birthdays, cats.etc

what else was there in birthday?

[spice frigate]

bodies

[vague imp]

presents

guns

[flint willow]

Old grammophones

[bold owl]

a dog

snow

trees

[spice frigate]

mousetrap

[vague imp]

You know nothing ~~Jon ~~ Snow

[[nobody saw that]]

[vague imp]

Not necessarily, trauma works in a very weird way sometimes, you might just possibly develop a phobia from one particular thing and not necessarily all of those things in bday , that’s how trauma works sometimes, it’s random most of times because fear can really do unpredictable things

Now my second guess is that what happened with mr rabbit killing his rabbits was instant and happened so suddenly and immediately, whereas as the fish smell of the house never left so he got paranoid from it to the point of developing fear since at the time he was in shock

But in the end that’s a theory and it can be anything really , it’s just a possibility

[spice frigate]

I don't think fear of fish has to do anything with Birthday imo, it could be off screen event that developed that trauma.

or just was born with that fear, just like we normally are with spiders, snakes... 🤷‍♀️

[vague imp]

or he saw a documentary of fish [deep sea perhaps?]

or maybe he nearly drowned anything could have happened tbh

[spice frigate]

or maybe he had a dream about fish eating him? or saw a fish that looked scary for him as a child?

[vague imp]

Yeah that’s all plausible but for now all we can do is speculate , i just thought of it since well it would’ve worked well with the story

[plucky swallow]

there are sure some freaky fish in the lake he could have seen

[dapper valley]

yeah like an anglerfish that can communicate in morse code

[bold owl]

Dale fell in love with the fish with human legs from Harvey's box and his trauma is due to being rejected CHANGE MY MIND

[hexed moat]

man i’d be heartbroken too dale dw buddy

[thin elk]

Lies and slander. Dale x Ms Pigeon is more canon than anything you lot have got

[hexed moat]

wh

what-

[thin elk]

xD

[plucky swallow]

Ahh Dale had an affair with the inverse mermaid

[north pasture]

THIS CHAT IS SO FRIGTHING I LOVE IT

Dale: 🎵if you’ve been repressing all of your trauma to the point of mental deterioration and it’s killing you slowly clap your hands!🎵
Dale: (slams two pans together really loud twice)

[vague imp]

Lol , but I guess it would’ve suited #🦞｜rusty-memes better

[bold owl]

[vague imp]

Pardon? Did i say something wrong?

[uneven flicker]

hi I just got here:)

[rapid pelican]

Welcome

[spice frigate]

Since my history teacher told me that US got into WWI 1917, but Leonard went to be a war hero exactly in 1914 - date when Europe had WWI, so that excludes US being one of the countries where it takes place

[toxic sand]

i like imagine the game is set in the UK somewhere

especially if you look at the uniform leonard has

[spice frigate]

UK also has some decent mountains too

[toxic sand]

the only evidence i have is what ive said

its not much but its headcanon for me

[spice frigate]

yeah I understand!! ^^

[vague imp]

It could take place in the Netherlands based off of the names, like vanderboom, eilander, and vandermeer.

[toxic sand]

maybe the families immigrated since both countries are pretty close geographically

[vague imp]

Yeah

[unkempt galleon]

the creators are from the netherlands

[vague imp]

Yeah also in regards to the uniform Leonard might have went to go fight for the British rather than stay with Albert during the war. That explains why the uniform looks like the British forces. The British had forces from everywhere especially during ww1.

Sorry for this if it's annoying I'm a bit of a history buff jcjsnskckkxks

[toxic sand]

yeah maybe that too

i believe there were black american soldiers in the french army for example

[vague imp]

Yeah so I headcanon them to be from the Netherlands and leonard went to go fight for the British during ww1.

[toxic sand]

Did Albert raise Leonard and rose later on?

[vague imp]

Ig yeah

[toxic sand]

It doesn’t make too much sense to me because Albert killed Leonard’s parents

Idk

Maybe he viewed Leonard as being his kid since he loved ida

And then treated him well

With frank he probably didn’t care about him because he was only Emma’s kid

[median solstice]

That's an interesting question, where was Albert before and after Leonard went to war, he was a kid when his parents were killed by Albert. Hmm.

[toxic sand]

I hope I’m remembering this right but for a while the only family members alive were Albert and Leonard, except frank who was trapped in the well

Since Leonard turned out normal Albert must’ve raised him to some degree

That’s what I think

Leonard survived too and I believe has a medal or two after

[median solstice]

My own memory's getting mixed up, I suddenly remembered Albert's voodoo dolls, the same one he used on Samuel and Ida. I can't remember if it was before or after the family band.

[toxic sand]

He killed Sam and ida after the band I believe

Replayed the game the other day

What do you think?

[vague imp]

Yeah I thought it was implied that Albert took care of Leonard. And I totally think part of the reason was because he's half ida's kid.

[languid lantern]

I realize death is really tricking in this series

[thin elk]

Theory: mods are gae

dab

[thorn copper]

I don't know if this was discussed before but here it goes-

I just started replaying the games and I noticed something in Seasons.
So Harvey's voice changes in all 3 seasons he's in (I'll just use he). In spring he sounds like a normal bird, and in fall I think Harvey's scream is definitely Laura's.
But in summer he lets out a strange one, and for some reason Mr Boar popped in my head.

I doubt it can be the corrupted soul, or Laura. You can find the sound Harvey makes on the wiki, and it's longer than what we hear in the game. I don't know why it would be Mr Boar, but it does sound like him to me.

[spice frigate]

Seasons was first game, iirc

So I think it was pre let's say... "final" Corrupted Soul voice, until they decided to do reverse sounding ones
same was with Harvey's design - they looked small, until they decided to make them bigger parrot

[thorn copper]

Yeah it could be that

I just kept thinking the Corrupted Soul wouldnt make any sound other than those eerie ones, but it's most likely that. Kinda forgot that they could've just changed their mind about the voice woops-

[patent lodge]

alright hear me out...mr crow is one of the creators and he can travel from our universe and the rusty lake universe

[bold owl]

obviously, how else could he have done THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaFGtQtAb-w

[thin elk]

Both of the devs have confirmed to be Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl lel xD

[patent lodge]

but who...

https://tenor.com/view/who-gif-4519872

[thin elk]

Robin is Owl and Maarten is Crow

Obviously xD

[vague imp]

Are you saying Robin is gonna eat us all or feed us eachother?

uh oh brother.

[bold owl]

Then who's harvey

[vague imp]

uhhh

...ig..XD

who was the new person they hired to be an intern?

[bold owl]

good question

[vague imp]

Has it been discussed before that the puppets in Miss Pheasant's room may ||likely tell the story of Jacob and Elisabeth|| and ||that Jacob is responsible for her losing eyesight||?

As well as Ms. Pigeon's torture chamber referring to ||child abuse of Jacob's father||?

[rapid pelican]

huh

[vague imp]

Scenes from Hotel (should I use spoiler tags here?)

[gilded solstice]

Ohh, i’ll have to revisit Ms Pheasant’s room

[rapid pelican]

To me it always looked like the animals from Hotel were retconned into being the Eilanders, I don't think that was planned from the start. I don't want to accuse the devs but it always felt that way

[vague imp]

Could be just the way they're building the story.

[gilded solstice]

I always felt that they’re not necessarily the same people..? but definitely related

we know there’s more than one mr deer, for example

||dale is implied to be one of them, since paradox||

[vague imp]

nods I see the animal masks (as well as beings) as roles one can take more than people.

[gilded solstice]

yes ! exactly

[vague imp]

Btw how do spoiler tags work, here?

[gilded solstice]

|| at the end and start of a sentence

[spice frigate]

|| wrap words with these

[vague imp]

||testing||
Thanks!

[silver anvil]

Okay...anyone, riddle me this. Ever since I have played the Rusty Lake series, I have read different opinions as to who is Mr. Crow. What I am meaning is when he appears.
Yes, the first time we meet Mr. Crow is in Harvey's Box. But then lines start to blur as to when we meet him.
In The Mill, we find out the old man is Mr. Crow in the end.
Rusty Lake Hotel & Roots is straightforward.
However, in Birthday, I have read someone's comment/theory somewhere that the grandfather of Dale is Mr. Crow/ Aldous. I can see why that person would say that because the grandfather as the same facial features of Aldous. However, I am leaning towards declining this theory because it doesn't really fit the time frame and the grandfather seems a bit taller than Aldous.
The last one is the Bartender from Theatre because, again. I have read a comment on the video of the behind the scenes of making of the Paradox movie (excellent work on the movie!!).
However, I am not to sure the Bartender is Aldous because of the voice, but Aldous/Mr. Crow has three different voices: Mr. Crow's raspy, low deep voice; the voice on the phone from Seasons, Case 23, The Mill, and Paradox; and Aldous's normal voice from The Cave and Roots.

I am so confused, and wondering if anyone is having the same problem as I.

[vague imp]

I see part of it being due to the animal avatars (as I call them) being roles people that get involved in Lake things can get into.
Mr. Crow always kinda impersonates a dark streak, he often has the role to encourage/enable others to harm someone else or themselves.

Apart from that the cubes/memories could be responsible for that. Like in a fever dream where you would see a person and know it's supposed to be your grandfather though he doesn't look like it. People can mingle and blend because they share the same aspects that are important for your dream.

[silver anvil]

Oh...I can see that.
But Mr. Crow/Aldous doesn't seem to be a person who actually wants people to hurt themselves. Actually, I think he is just a person following orders (ex. Rusty Lake Hotel); or trying to keep his family safe (ex. Roots). However, each person's view of right and wrong can vary greatly as to how they were raised and circumstances.

[vague imp]

Agreed.
Also we can never be sure if anything that happens is just a symbolic "dream sequence" act. As in, how the cubes influence it all.

[median solstice]

Speaking of Aldous and Roots, and the elixir of life or death. I can hardly fathom an aged Aldous. But there is a so called other sibling for William and Aldous perhaps? Since James Vanderboom received the house and letter from his uncle William Vanderboom. Dale can be extended family, in some sense.

[hexed fox]

What makes you think there is a third brother? As you said yourself, William was James's uncle. He died when he drank the elixir of life and death and James inherited his house.

[vague imp]

Roni it was never said that Aldous had any children, so the identity of James father is unclear.

[earnest timber]

In that case there has to be a third brother

[vague imp]

Or a sister fwiw. Though it's been common to call cousins of parents uncle/aunt, too. As well as unrelated people becoming a child's godmother/godfather.

[median solstice]

Plus Dale's last name is Vandermeer which is literally similar by one half of Vanderboom. There must be a reason why he was kept alive after Birthday, almost like Leonard was when Albert blew off.

[vague imp]

A third sibling doesn't necessarily support this blood connection theory. The "van der" part is common in dutch names, simply meaning "of the". In that sense Dale's ancestors must have lived close to the sea, the Vanderboom family ancestors having a significant tree close to their home (as did the family we know). Immmigrants to the United States often had their names simplified, making van der Boom into Vanderboom.
The devs might just be playing around with the idea of linking Dale to water, thus the Lake here. Vanderbooms have their tree, Eilanders live on an island.
Perhaps meaningful, perhaps just a method to simplify naming characters and associating them with their background.
Ida's last name btw can mean ||traveller or peregrine|| but is also a common dutch name.

As for Dale being kept alive:
Mr. Rabbit's suit ||is basically Dale's|| throughout the episodes where we play/encounter him. As established by the ||machine Dale gets from Mr. Owl for his birthday, time travel|| is possible.
Now, if Dale for some reason had to ||travel back in time|| to get ||that pistol|| he by no means would, or could ||kill his own young self||.
Talking of ||the pistol, which is the one Ms. Pheasant uses for her suicide||, I'd more link Dale's family to Harvey, who ||was the person present in Ms. Pheasant's room|| after she died and could have easily taken it.

[median solstice]

👏👁️👁️💦 yes I forgot

Makes you wonder why still he ||would kill his family, despite traveling to the future or past. Just a thought.||

[vague imp]

Probably just ||a time travel fallacy: "if this is what I remember, I must have done it|| because I found no other way, so it's what I have to do".

[red wave]

i can talk about thw white door here?

[vague imp]

@red wave
Thinking #the-white-door-help would be better since the game is still so new.

[red wave]

Ok

[hasty quarry]

I still think the elevators is connected in the sea level, even though they are bi directoral though, and harvey's box is I think being carried by Laura.

[vague imp]

I see you're thinking
outside the box

[hasty quarry]

Thinking she is the only candidate that fits, throughout the story lines, and she was still alive duration of elfin period of time.

[vague imp]

...who even too Laura's picture(s)?

[stray jay]

me

[sleek topaz]

Lmao

[main parrot]

||I think that mr. Crow is just try to get his brother back cause laura wasn't him she was someone else
also I think he is not work with mr. Owl he is just need him when his brother dies didn't even try to get his memory also his brother was Cursed when he is try to be immortal he will live forever but in one live multiple times and dead with tragedy, in other way mr. Owl is just try to resume his mother legacy also he is always be a protecter of lake spectator of rusty lake he observe everything on Rusty lake and make strategy for lake future he need laura memory to convince Dale to help lake cause somehow Vandermeer family connect to lake and Jacob family (Eilender or something)
when you become immortal you also become that animal represent your personality like harvey and mr Bat they were just a pawn all those sacrifice for keep full of lake with memory probably they were supposed to use only good memories (white cube) but it didn't enough and than they use bad memories(black cube) and it brings the corrupted soul and terror so they need to change something in past that thats the reason we have blue cube it represents time and all the good nad memories in past and future they couldn't find it when they need cause I think there is only one blue cube but travel in time and space to stabilize it white+black+blue=golden cube that only cube that
could bring peace to everyone one paradox was a test to Dale thats why Dale animal is deer its represent nature Dale will become more important than we think I geuse also Albert use power of nature to Vudu magic ,dark magic about Hotel mr. Deer my theory is that he had to die for Dale could become mr. Deer in paradox we see his corrupted soul to guide to Dale and gives Albert power of the nature deer mask ||

||also mr. Owl killed laura because he need the formula of the life elixir he was need her memory of her past life in Rusty lake roots bonus level we were mr.Crow's brother and we make elixir only we know formula even mr.Crow dont know it thats why Dale is on a trip right now to mr. Owl try send him past to her mother time to take the formula but I guess than Dale will in love with her and stay so Jacob Eilender will born and we will see that Dale is father of jacob aka mr. Owl||

make sense?

[vague imp]

I always wondered if Bob's ||corrupted soul in the interrogation room somehow talked the policeman into hanging himself, or shocked him so much. Like.. what if the souls have access to lake memories and the policeman was close to someone whose memories now belong to the lake?||

[native vortex]

i think ||that the corrupted souls have effects of the world, and not good effects. i mean the corrupted soul that gets into laura in the lake makes her kill harvey, her beloved bird, right? i imagine it won't be hard to make someone (even a stranger) to hang themselves just by being there||

[drowsy burrow]

My take is ||That some people that live near the lake or are in some way connected to the lake share same memories. It's kinda like Bob and Dale sharing the same memory, even tough the apparent lack of doors in Dales office make it clear that both of them must be in a perverted form of reality or in this case, a twisted memory. I can't say for sure if the policeman is actually present or not, but atleast he seems to be. Perhaps he hung himself in real life and Robert, as a corrupted soul, has the ability of summoning this memory, perhaps to scare Dale, as that seems to be something corrupted souls do for a living.||

Dunno if that made any sense at all

[native vortex]

that makes sense! i do think that we're seeing a distorted version of dales memories in case 23 as well

[vague imp]

Basically, all memories are distorted. Just think of how ||Laura, or Laura's corrupted version, sees herself standing outside through the window in Seasons||.

[native vortex]

also in cave we saw laura and dale in a machine

[drowsy burrow]

I actually believe the machine to be real and paradox taking place inside the machines inner workings

As paradox is basically Laura and Dale arguing with each other about who should get the golden cube, atleast if I understood it right

[vague imp]

||And I think there are no doors because leaving the room isn't part of the memory, as well as not being the way out. Dale just sees the door and police car because it reminds him of his role there.||

Yes, basically the machine made Paradox happen.

[native vortex]

yeah i meant that its real and its probably the uh part of "mental health" part

making u live through your trauma again (birthday for dale, lake for laura) to reach enlightment

[drowsy burrow]

Though there are exceptions, like the murder scene in case 23, so that could be either real or just not as distorted, as this memory was created by Dale's still unaffected mind

[native vortex]

||and i think that bob was supposed to be a part of enlightment as well but he broke the cycle of memories and became a corrupted soul???? idk||

the base of the memories are real but theyre being recreated by distorted minds imo

[thorn copper]

I don't know how significant this is, if at all, but in Hotel in Mr. Boar's room on the wall is the invitation from Mr. Owl, right? He refers to Mr. Boar as Mr. Ambassador and I'm not sure why. He also mentions their 'mutual friend', who I don't know could be. Any ideas?

I also wonder why he hung it on his wall. The reason could be just so the player would see it with the stamp, but why not put it in a drawer or a table? This is a very random question but I'm just wondering if anyone has any theories for that

Could the mutual friend actually be Jacob?

[vague imp]

Played Paradise?

What I thought so far: one of the other guests.
Doesn't explain the "Ambassador" though.
Ambassador of what, and where.

[drowsy burrow]

The ambassador of the BOAReal valley

Dark souls reference, you don't need to get it

[thorn copper]

Ye I played Paradise, tho it was a while ago

[vague imp]

Btw, Xander what you and Parisa said made me think.
Mind if I @ you with the outcome later? (Need to replay some episodes to verify)

[drowsy burrow]

Sure, why not. Let's see what you got cooking in that brain of yours

[vague imp]

ty

[craggy crescent]

Hey guys! I’m not super well versed in discord but I wanted to promote this page for Rusty Lake theories if you guys have Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/622489808486326/?ref=share

[native vortex]

its not a real theory but listen. rusty lake introduces characters in trios: male, male, female.

Leonard, Frank, Rose.
Samuel, Albert, Emma.
David, Jakob, Elizabeth.
Dale, Bob, Laura.

then we have the bird trio: mr. owl, mr. crow, and harvey

does this mean harvey is a girl

[spice frigate]

Oh my, Oh my

that's... so good

[vague imp]

makes sense

[gilded pollen]

Harvey lays eggs

thats a girl bird thing

actually i was literally thinking about it like 15 minutes ago. creepy

although werent they referred to with he/him pronouns in Hotel?..

transgender cursed parrot

[native vortex]

yES TRANS

[earnest timber]

i stan

[bold owl]

quick someone edit harvey saying "Trans rights are human rights"

[earnest timber]

and parrot rights

[earnest timber]

lovely

[native vortex]

KJASJKASJKSAHJAS

[vague imp]

Did Harvey drink the elixir

[fallen vale]

I don't think I get what was Bob doing in the police station in Case 23

[thin elk]

He was convicted of murder

[fallen vale]

When do we learn it?

[thin elk]

Context?

[fallen vale]

What I meant was when do we learn that Bob was convicted of murder

[thin elk]

What else would a guy do in police station if he wasn't a prime suspect

[native vortex]

iirc in theatre he says he was convicted of murder

[fallen vale]

Oh ok

It just that I figured The White Door showed us most of the important things about thim and yet we didn't see anything regarding the said murder

oh wait wait

was he convicted of Laura's murder?

[native vortex]

yeah!

[thin elk]

He was a suspect, but obviously not the murderer

[fallen vale]

Ohhh ok it makes sense now

[native vortex]

well bc he was close to her and police usually asks people who are the closest to the murder

i think he was literally the only one laura had around

[fallen vale]

He was a suspect, but obviously not the murderer
@thin elk
yeah that's for sure

i think he was literally the only one laura had around
@native vortex
It definitely seemed like that

[native vortex]

poor them. honestly when i think about their lives i get so sad

[fallen vale]

The entire story is rather unhappy, really

[forest thicket]

Guys, i have a theory

[fallen vale]

Let's hear it

[native vortex]

owo

[forest thicket]

I think the lost soul that is in the lake is the lost soul of the mother of mr owl

(Sorry for bad english, again)

And harvey is the good part of her soul

[native vortex]

oh????? hu h

thats a very interesting theory

also ur english is 👌

[forest thicket]

Eh :v

[native vortex]

why do u think harvey is a part of her soul?

im curious to know more 👀

[forest thicket]

He is a part of the hotel

Only the mr owl family are in hotel

He appears in the island where the hotel gonna be

[forest thicket]

Oh wait

I think another theory .-.

[thin elk]

Owl's family is on the island before the hotel. Hotel is a separate entity

[native vortex]

i think hotel is closely linked to the paradise tho

bc of the animal symbolism

[thin elk]

I mean

It is

[native vortex]

imo it was a revenge plan for mr owl- kind of? or making use of the souls

[thin elk]

But that doesn't mean Harvey is linked to the Eilanders

[forest thicket]

I think van gogh is like the father of aldous and william vanderboom

@thin elk so eho are harvey exactly?

Who***

[thin elk]

Hell if I know. He appears in way too many places at once

I reckon he has a backstory. It's just we haven't seen it yet

[forest thicket]

Maybe he is like a angel or something

[thin elk]

Probably

[sterile oriole]

hey, how does Harvey appear in Paradise / Roots like a bird if the hotel accident hadn't occurred yet?

is he ubiquitous?

[earnest timber]

He drank some immortal juice :0

[sterile oriole]

But like, because in the Hotel he's a hybrid (No Birthday is revealed that he was attacked and then turned into an ordinary bird), but in Paradise that happens years before, he appears as an ordinary bird.

[native vortex]

i think all of the hybrids shown in the hotel have the ability to turn into normal birds (if we consider the crows we see in the game as mr crow)

[sterile oriole]

But then the Birthday scene would be a little pointless, since it looks like when it was attacked somehow it became a bird.

Well, it may be that they can turn into their respective animals, but after that they are no longer hybrid / human?

[spice kernel]

Could be that Harvey was originally a comun parrot?

[sterile oriole]

hmm, probably.

[spice kernel]

So... Vanderboom's dog could be a hybrid?

[vague imp]

what is harvey's box about anyway

I used to think it was about how harvey met mr crow but then hotel happened

[bold owl]

I'm pretty sure it's Bob going to RL Mental Health & Fishing

[vague imp]

Huh

they put him inside a box?

[earnest timber]

timeout box

[native vortex]

isnt harveys box between seasons and lake???

[bold owl]

You play as Harvey

[spice kernel]

Seconds after The Lake I'd say

[bold owl]

Harvey is inside the box while Bob is taking him I think

[spice kernel]

I thougth that soul corrupted was Laura

[hollow raptor]

I think it's shortly before the lake
so somewhere during seasons

[spice kernel]

I think it's:
Seasons spring
The Lake
Harvey box
Seasons summer

[silver anvil]

So where does TWD fit in with the series now? Before Case 23 or before Theatre?
Also, the guy we see with the glasses in TWD, I think he was Mr. Owl, but I'm not sure.

[simple rain]

have u finished the game bc i have a take but it's a spoiler take

[silver anvil]

I have finish the game, but planning to replay it because I know I have missed things.

The Rusty Lake series and a few other games I really like playing again because I discover new things every time I play. Also, I take notes as I play so I could use them when I'm writing fanfiction.

[simple rain]

valid!!

i'm gonna put it in white door spoilers

[spice kernel]

Seasons spring
The Lake
Harvey box
Theatre (memory)
Seasons summer
Case 23 // The Mill
Theatre (elevator)
The Cave //Paradox
Birthday (elevator)
The White Door
Seasons Fall

[thorn copper]

There's that bird in Roots that appears multiple times-I assume it's Mr Crow?

[weak patrol]

Still not sure about that

Mr crow is not corrupted

[thorn copper]

Yeah

Maybe we see him that way cause we're William who's a corrupted soul? Idk

[weak patrol]

William is still human form

[thorn copper]

I don't think so

There's that moment where you look out the window with a telescope and you zoom in on the moon on which is a window. On the window is a corrupted soul also holding a telescope looking at you

I'd say he's a corrupted soul but heck if I'm 100% sure in anything

[weak patrol]

I mean by himan form is
A human looking corrupted soul

Should have been more specific

[thorn copper]

oH I get you

I think it would only make sense that this character is a crow because of the beak, I dont know which other bird it could be

[weak patrol]

Ms peacock?

Wait no

[thorn copper]

hm

[weak patrol]

Her neck is still long

[thorn copper]

The character gave Albert the deer mask i think

[weak patrol]

Yep

That's the one

[thorn copper]

So they definitely want to help out with all the things that are supposed to happen

[simple rain]

btw if i posted my long theory/proposed summary for the series pre-white door so i can find out what's already been pretty much said and recognized and what hasn't, would that be cool? i don't wanna clog the chat which is why i'm asking

[thorn copper]

I'd like to read that tbh

[fallen vale]

Me too

[simple rain]

welcome to my long long long rusty lake theory

here's a google doc so i don't consume the entire chat with my timeline

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-04f3ovy7ue9ZQOIHtE5MWtqtcqTbEhtjr6aM7pG2Wg

[wintry scarab]

Wow, that's one amazing timeline :o

[thorn copper]

Is White Door included? I just wanna check cause I havent played it yet

[simple rain]

white door is not included

and thank you failentin!!!

[thorn copper]

Aight ty

[simple rain]

i wrote this up just after paradox came out and added a little addendum when the white door trailer was launched but that's it

[earnest timber]

I never realized the visitors of the hotel were the eilander family
But it all makes sense

[simple rain]

i'm glad!!!

[earnest timber]

Thank you for enlightening me

[ivory cedar]

thx

[spice kernel]

Muy theory about Paradise:
Plagues was made by Caroline. When she was sacrificated, she hided hers memories (black cubes) so the sacrifice was incopleted. It generate the plagues and to fix it, hers memories had to be gived to the Lake.
But Caroline's memories had the elements of elixir. So, while Jakob was returning the black cubes, he also was doing the elixir's process.
Finally, when Jakob is sacrificated, he uses Caroline's memories to complet the elixir and join his soul with Caroline's soul.
So, all Paradise events were a master plan from Caroline

[thorn copper]

I never thought the plagued were Caroline's doing

They are biblical plagues I believe, but your theory still makes sense

I do also think that Caroline and Jacob were like the pair for the elixir

[pine radish]

Fantastic theory @simple rain! I really enjoyed reading it ^_^

[drowsy burrow]

I actually thought that the lake kinda liked Caroline. I mean, she seems like the only person that would actually read a book and act according to what really wants. Her husband's intentions seem... More ritualistic, thinks that may have been passed down for generations. When they then killed Caroline the lake got pissed and decided to curse the eilanders

[spice kernel]

When Caroline is sacrificated, she releases her memories. It spoiled the ritual because the sacrifice wasn't complete. Consequently, it caused the plagued

[silver anvil]

Does anyone have a theory as to how and when Mr. Owl and Mr. Crow meet?

It seems that the Vanderbooms were there first because of Aldous and William, but the Eilanders created their own estate on the island where the hotel would be built.

[thorn copper]

I think Mr. Owl approached Mr Crow (Aldous) maybe because he was an alchemist? Tho I've no idea when exactly

Also @simple rain I loved your theories!

[silver anvil]

Idk either...

Also, @simple rain , your theories are really cool!

[cinder jungle]

Has anyone noticed that pain doesn't seem to really phaze anyone in the rusty lake series? Like we've seen hands stabbed and ears chopped off and people barely flinch. Could something in the water be killing or dulling nerve endings?

[stray token]

Well, since most these injuries occur during Dreams/nightmares or sacrifices, i think it's pretty normal they don't feel the pain associated with it

[silver anvil]

Well...except for Dale because he flinches in pain when he hit his head

[cinder jungle]

Oh right sorry I forget that the games are so surreal because of the dream sequences.

[stray token]

Eeeeh, the fainting of Dale in Paradox might be happening for scenario needs 😄

[simple rain]

than you guys, i'm so glad you like my takes!!!!!

[cobalt yarrow]

Where in the timeline do you guys think Samsara Room fits in?

[viscid veldt]

I would also be curious to know that

Pretty sure it's officially non-canonical tho

[hasty quarry]

I think Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl where just co workers at the hotel, so they had a nice conversation at one point, behind the timelines and just opened up drinks and had a laugh.

[simple rain]

samsara room is just like like seasons 1.0 so i'm assuming it's entirely unimportant but if u like i think it would suit as an alt timeline of seasons

also i'm extremely flattered everyone likes my theories, i was worried they'd instantly get holes poked in them lmao

i assume mr crow and mr owl met because mr crow's brother at least lived literally on top of mr owl's mom's old workshop? and he was probably an alchemist beforehand as well

i really like the idea of them being hotel buddies also tho

[spice frigate]

Samsara is not really part of Rusty Lake universe. It was just pre-rusty lake era per say

[simple rain]

yeah

[hasty quarry]

Samsara is just a enterence to the glorious realm of Rusty Lake.

[earnest timber]

Any theories who the toad cook and the bat bell boy are and how they came along?
(like I know the bat from the cave)

[hasty quarry]

Well I think the toad cook was acutally Sara at one point via white door, how she is smiling and lookin forward to taking care of other people. How simliar their actions are in the beginning, and one day Mr. Crow, did the impossible, he sacrificed Elisabeth for the toad puzzles, and keeping in mind, this is from my memory alone, in that puzzle with eggs from tadpoles.

Bat Boy, well I would have to far fetch he was Bob.

[earnest timber]

Hm

[median solstice]

Hmm

[drowsy burrow]

Sounds... Interesting, but white door plays after hotel, timewise

[earnest timber]

That's what's been throwing me off there

Like to become immortal you need a person to die as well

[hasty quarry]

Same here, that has been throwing me off too, why would you feel so deeply in love with a soul that has been blacken out, when she has nothing at all to even consider of swallowing up herself? Even though she was an artist and gave into the daybreak.

[drowsy burrow]

And I don't think that ||Sarah got along too well with the ways mr.owl works, but explaining that would be too much white door spoiler for now||

[hasty quarry]

I would not consider of the offering of Paradox as a potrayal portal to Laura either, she would have already been dead twice.

[drowsy burrow]

Excuse me, but could you perhaps rephrase that? I don't think I get your point in your last two messages

[hasty quarry]

Alright, not like I am going out right now, I am saying if Laura was the same one in Paradox, vs. the one that was in the past, that glued together with the first game, where the case was still fresh, I personally think that the offering of Paradox, Dale's own mind, into the lake, would of consider of knowing what kind of events, leading to her first death.

The second death was in Dale's mind, even though it does count, of having the corrupted soul, that is now Bob.

[drowsy burrow]

I think I get it. Actually, it is quite possible, even very likely that the Laura that died and the Laura in paradox are one and the same. Consider what happens in the secret ending of paradox chapter 2. In this ending Dale gets the golden cube and steps in the elevator to ride upwards, possibly towards the hotel. What this is very similar of is how you give Dale the golden cube in "the cave". There you see Dale and the corrupted Laura sitting on two chairs which extract... Something from their minds to create the golden cube. Paradox is most likely to be set in that exact spot. Laura and Dale are connected over the machine and they both have to figure out who goes on and takes the elevator after this all is over. The continuous loop is perhaps just the machine doing it's thing

That's atleast how I understood you and my counter

[hollow raptor]

I think it's possible that the time travel in Seasons is Lauras simulation in the machine we see in the Cave, while Dales simulation is Paradox

So she never really went back in time to save her life

Just as Dale didn't actually save his parents

[hasty quarry]

Right on the nose, was going into detail on why was there only one golden cube, to really become something extracted in the shadows, I think Cooking Toad did come into play a little backwards duration of that time. A concealed time frame of a day.

Maybe in Spring time.

[drowsy burrow]

1.) There never was a second golden cube because there apparently is a great deal of prophecy coupled with the creation of a golden cube.
2.) I still don't know what you want with that toad. I know the question was who the toad was, but Sarah doesn't make sense from a timeline perspective

[hasty quarry]

Okay.

Sorry about that.

[drowsy burrow]

@hollow raptor possible, but why would it then give a special date to winter? There is no real reason If the machine is just doing it's think.
Can agree on the "is she alive now"? We just don't know how much power a blue cube REALLY has

No reason to be sorry, it just sounds like you are jumping all over the place with your ideas

[hasty quarry]

Okay. My mind sometimes can be like that, and all I see is small peices of the games, I have not been playing the games in a while, last one was Harvey's Box In August, used to be so obessed with them.

[drowsy burrow]

Yeah, the story is prone to just getting blurry if you do not think about it for a while

[hasty quarry]

For somehow my brain went "Hey look the white door" when I pre registered for it.

[hasty quarry]

@north pasture About your Epiphany on November 24th, I think that too, it would really be hurt though, I also think that Laura was a memory build within Bob, when Dale saw her in White Door.

@humble wagon Thanks I never knew that Mr. Deer and James almost has similar attire on. I am wondering if they are the same person.

[karmic quiver]

Just finished the game

Im really confused now

[vague imp]

#the-white-door-help to speak about it please

[thorn copper]

Just a thing I noticed while playing Cave-

When you insert the first cube (white) in the submarine, you have to drag the photo pieces to match the picture. Seemingly there's Laura looking at the hotel from distance with Harvey on her shoulder, and when you click on Harvey they 100% make Mr. Bat's sound. It could just be that they are copying it back from the hotel, cause I'm not sure what meaning it could have if any.

[hasty quarry]

I noticed that a bit ago, Shrimp, it does connect and make the Mr. Bat, more then a bellhop.

[thorn copper]

We will know who Mr. Bat is...one day...

[hasty quarry]

Maybe Mr. Bat and Frying Toad can be like connection through like Roots. Anyone can be a member of that family.

Mr. Bat = flight = owl, maybe it is the grandmother.

[thorn copper]

Ohdamn

Wait we never found out what happened to Leonard and Frank, they just got wrapped in roots. Nor Rose actually

I forgot when Hotel happened tho

[manic glade]

1893

[thorn copper]

Plus what would they have to do with Mr. Owl, their only connection is through Mr. Crow and he never actually interacted with them

[hasty quarry]

wait, flight, avation, what if Leonard was Mr. bat.

[thorn copper]

Could be

[hasty quarry]

you just gave my brain a bolt of thought, Shrimp.

[thorn copper]

Oh 1893 its possible then

yeetus

[hasty quarry]

Maybe the time pieces.

[thorn copper]

And Frank is the chef toad cause he was always hungry

Bam

Jk

[hasty quarry]

No.... I think Chef Toad was a different person.

[thorn copper]

Time pieces? What with them?

[hasty quarry]

IT is a bit of a thought, but time pieces does come with a price, right? Variation of different routes throught each branch, right? It is sometimes deals with the numbers, and you need to understand, it deals with the clock's own hands. Of when each mutation hits them in either death, or not, since Lenoard was last seen riding a motorcycle, think his last destionation was in the cave.

As the old cliche goes, once you been bitten by a vampire bat.

[thorn copper]

Oh that's an interesting take

[hasty quarry]

When I did the timeline in my notebook on my comp, my gears started to dwaddle towards Roots.

[thorn copper]

Could it be maybe that it also depends on which time piece they get? I can't remember what the signs on them mean, they're probably related to all the hungry demon/soul things

I think one meant "hungry demon", one "rebirth" and things like that tho i cant remember correctly

Frank and Leonard could've died in the tree's roots

[hasty quarry]

mmhmm.

[thorn copper]

And I think Leonard was heading to war?

Wait no

[hasty quarry]

I read that about a few days ago, I know it means like "Rebirth"

[thorn copper]

Why'd he go to war on a motorcycle wth

[manic glade]

Because it was WW1

[hasty quarry]

Because I think around that era, there was no other ways of transportation in that time .

[manic glade]

And he had a motorcycle, I guess

[thorn copper]

Yeah it would actually make sense

[hasty quarry]

Because it was a massive murder 95% of the entire..... I am not going into a history lesson either.

I can remember a language pretty well, when I first see it and the symbol meaning, no I do not have a degree in lingusitics either, but knowing around six different lanuages does help me out.

[thorn copper]

Oh darn

Sweet

[hasty quarry]

🙂

Guess been taught with the right teachers throughout time, and my family knows how intelligent I am, though it takes me some time to slow down. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[thorn copper]

Yeah having a really good teacher for anything really helps out, even though you can do it yourself but that just makes it "simpler"

[hasty quarry]

Been out of college for twenty years too, just been through it all though, probably that is why I am me.

[thorn copper]

It's just better when you choose what you want to learn than having it shoved in your face

[hasty quarry]

I kind have to go though. Something always keeping up, talk with you soon Shrimp, nice to meet you.

[thorn copper]

You too K985-wethink-Boxes K985

Related to the theory-
Mr. Bat and Mr. Toad could be connected to Harvey I suppose - so maybe when we find out what's up with Harvey, we'll also figure out who they are?

[hasty quarry]

On my way out, not much is known of the policeman.

I think that Harvey is Laura and Albert.

[thorn copper]

Ok I've never heard of that one before

How so?

You can answer it later when you have time

[raven spindle]

i wonder if any of them didn't start out as human.. i could see mr owl taking animals and elevating them, so to speak, so that he would have loyal helpers

[thorn copper]

Oh yeah that's what came to my mind too

Would be neat

[raven spindle]

if any of them are like that, then bat seems most likely bc of that moment of just Full Bat in the middle of Hotel

[thorn copper]

Oh ye

And Harvey also turned into an actual parrot

Only 2 of them I think

[raven spindle]

true.. what's the timeline of seasons, harvey's box and hotel

were the other two after hotel, or was that harvey arriving at rusty lake in the box before hotel

[manic glade]

Hotel was way before those two

[thorn copper]

Harvey was in the box somewhere inbetween Seasons

[raven spindle]

oh okay, so whatever reason for turning full parrot and/or reverting to full parrot at the end of hotel, that's also the explanation for full parrot in the other games

[thorn copper]

Yep

It could be just Mr. Owl being weird and somehow turning him into an animal, but I like this theory more

Plus Mr. Owl and others can turn into humans again, so it would make sense if animals could turn back too

[vague imp]

There's an extra scene in Birthday you can find to see what's up with Harvey turning parrot

[thorn copper]

Ye the souls attack, and I think Mr. Owl is the one that "summons" the beam?

[vague imp]

Mr. Owl seems the most likely as he did that before in The Mill.

[thorn copper]

Just casually T-posed above Dale, making the beam

[vague imp]

With this "I know you're watching" -look in those owly eyes.

[thorn copper]

yes

[vague imp]

Speaking of Mill...
A lot of hints pointing to Mr. Crow as the character we're playing, but: we never see his reflection.
Reflections have been a common theme throughout the series (except Harvey's Box, but there was the parrot shadow on the cardboard as well as his name in the title. And Hotel, but the cigar scene reveals it).
Probably The Mill is just leading us on.

[thorn copper]

Hm