And, particularly at the time, that would mean Dale's last name should be Vanderboom, no?
#š¤ļ½theories
manic glade
night forge
But it's Dale Vandermeer
manic glade
Exactly
manic glade
So heād have to get the name from somewhere
night forge
Sorry about that
main patrol
@tawny sandal oh shoot right, forgot about that lol. Itās been a while since Iāve played the games
I think Mr Rabbjt spared Dale on purpose. Mr Owl was probably like ākill any of them you like but donāt touch the boy thatās mine to tortureā
Heck, maybe Mr Owl told Mr Rabbit to purposely spare Dale, so that it would drive him to be a detective and make him severely traumatised so that Mr Owl could do his thing and everything else happens
If the blue cube was only in Daleās mind, then why was Mr Crow able to obtain it in The Lake?
And I guess the blue cube is for time travelling shorter periods (years instead of decades) without going to the lake? I dunno
copper hawk
@spare raft Mr. Rabbit doesn't kill Dale because he doesn't want to kill a child
he even left a sorry note behind him
main patrol
Was gonna say that too
For whatever reason, he purposely spared Dale
Or how would he read the note?
copper hawk
Paradox is in Dale's mind, it's all symbolism, Dale didn't kill Laura
Laura got killed by a soul that comes from herself, and is at multiple times seen herself with the knife, or killing people as a soul
main patrol
Thatās what I said lol
copper hawk
so -> suicide
main patrol
That makes sense
copper hawk
I mean the end of Seasons literally means "I killed my self"
main patrol
Wait actually, how can we verify that the corrupted souls were from the same guy?
To make a guy corrupted all you have to do is like remove a bad memory or something right?
So it could be anyone really
copper hawk
Shadow-monster-man : Kills a woman
Player : Kills Harvey, imitating a woman's scream
Player : Looks into a mirror, is a shadow-monster-man "It's me"
end of the game, player : looks into the mirror, the shadow-monster-man becomes the woman killed "It's me"
You can't be more explicit than that
main patrol
Thatās just circumstantial evidence man
But then again theories are mostly made of circumstantial evidence as well so what gives
copper hawk
and btw, there are 2 types of shadow-monster-men
there are the souls, that are just that... souls of dead people
and there is the corruption, that is a mental problem starting to control the soul of a person while their alive, driving them insane and ending up killing themselves
like Van Gogh and Laura (who was depressed)
(and yes, I will keep saying "shadow-monster-man" until someone gets the reference)
main patrol
(Sorry man, donāt get the reference)
copper hawk
(too bad :/)
main patrol
The corruption is a process, no? And the corrupted soul is the end product
copper hawk
the corruption is the mental illness
it's kind of the representation of that feeling of splitting inside you
where there is you, and your illness
main patrol
I know, but while still undergoing that ācorruptionā, you wouldnāt be a corrupted soul yet, the way I see it
Because in order to be a corrupted soul, you kinda need to be dead?
Having some mental illnesses just gives you a higher predisposition to turn into a corrupted soul I think?
copper hawk
when you're corrupted, your soul is corrupted, but not "you"
main patrol
A corrupted soul had always been referred to an separate entity/physical manifestation though, no?
copper hawk
yes
main patrol
So then a 'corruption' wouldn't be classified as a 'corrupted soul'/shadow monster man because it's still in the process of being one/simply means there's a higher chance of being corrupted
copper hawk
at this point it's just definitions
the corruption is what makes your soul go mad
once you're dead you're a soul, corrupted or not
corruption can be either a mental illness or a bad memory, most of the time an unfinished business (the latest is only applicable for dead souls)
main patrol
I know, it's just that you previously said that there were 2 types of corrupted souls, the corrupted souls and the corruption process. Just wanted to clarify that bit
copper hawk
No, I said there are 2 types of shadows, one where you're dead, and one where you're alive
Both are souls but in a different state
karmic crest
y'all think van gogh is related to the Vanderbooms and eilanders?
copper hawk
The only feasible way he would be included in the family tree is if Aldous is his grandfather
It must be one of the 2 brothers because of timing
and William has no other heir than James
karmic crest
it's a weird theory but it must be a reason there was a corrupted soul
copper hawk
well, the original reason was that Rusty Lake was just a story about mental illness
but nobody knows what the new plan is for Van Gogh
now that we're set in a quest for the Philosopher Stone
karmic crest
I had feelings that she was Hungarian for some reason
copper hawk
just let me find her last name again
I'm saying Romani (gypsy) because... well, she's a fortune teller
but I'll check
karmic crest
Reiziger on the wiki
copper hawk
hn... it's Dutch for "Traveler"
They love to give Dutch meaningful names to their characters
Except for Bob
copper hawk
I mean, she's a "traveler" fortune teller
karmic crest
ts true
copper hawk
even if it's a Dutch name, it's really suggested that she's a gypsy
karmic crest
she probably has Romanian roots
copper hawk
Ida is a Greek name
the Nymph Ida was cut on her breast by a raspberry bush, and her blood tainted the fruits, originally white, forever......
huh...
so remember kids, when eating raspberries, the juice actually is a nymph's boob blood
copper hawk
wtf, Greek mythology ?
Why can't you be normal ?
Greek Mythology :
Screams in rapes and hybrid animals
copper hawk
I do
copper hawk
from Hera's boob
thin elk
Yep
copper hawk
when Heracles was drinking, making him a demi-god
karmic crest
stars
thin elk
I mean, greeks new how to make a mythology
karmic crest
her
copper hawk
no, him
karmic crest
Hera was a him?
copper hawk
Heracles = Hercules
thin elk
Add boobs, sex, and hybrid animals resulted from ssid sex and you get yoself a nice mytholorgy
copper hawk
Heracles means "glory to Hera"
Zeus chose the name to calm his wife he just cheated on...
strangely, it didn't work
his wife/sister, btw
thin elk
Yeah, he cheated numerous times, while heracles happened only once
copper hawk
Greek Mythology, y u like dis ?
thin elk
Also poseidon is a brony
copper hawk
Also Pegasus was born from the corpse of a rape victim that was killed because it was "her fault" for being abused
thin elk
Also dyou remember the time when aphrodite started a war cuz of an apple?
copper hawk
she was turned into a gorgon, called Medusa
thin elk
It is
karmic crest
medusa was raped?
copper hawk
she was when she was human
karmic crest
medusa was Aphrodite?
karmic crest
oh
karmic crest
you said she was turned to a gorgon
copper hawk
she got transformed into a monster because it was "her fault"
and then she got decapitated because she was a monster
karmic crest
oh i was thinking about pixelated's post
copper hawk
and from her beheaded body, Pegasus was born
thin elk
Which then also got scrubbed
thin elk
Body
copper hawk
from the blood
karmic crest
heh ok
copper hawk
Owl going into hunting mode
https://www.facebook.com/Lesavoirperdudesanciens/videos/608882782927480/
which means Mr. Owl is always down to kill
solid elm
Can anyone give me a summary of Lauraās complete life and what happened to her after her suicide ?
@copper hawk perhaps ?
copper hawk
uh
wait I already wrote that
After being born from Rose, they leave the home to live in another city close by
Rose being the daughter of a psychopath, is a sociopath, and doesn't give much love to Laura since she never received any, and so she becomes depressed
She gets Harvey as a pet, since (s)he was Emma's pet.
She starts dating Bob, which is trying his best to be a good boyfriend and help her in her mental state, but it's not enough.
She breaks up with him and goes to the Rusty Lake mental hospital, after seeing the add Aldous put in the journal for her to find.
She goes there, bringing Harvey with her in a box, and finds an abandoned cabin where she goes fishing to try and forget her problems.
She has a deep crisis that almost makes her kill herself, but Harvey is there to recomfort her.
She flees the cabin without taking the time to bring back the box, and return to her home soon after as the mental health institute seems to not work for her, given she almost attempted suicide.
Once back home, her mental state doesn't get better. She is more and more depressed and almost paranoid.
She sees death everywhere around her, and finally, in fall 1971, she gives in and slit her own throat.
Dale is called immediately to investigate the scene, as nobody knows what happened.
But at the same time, Aldous, that kept an eye on her ever since she left the Hotel, teleports her corpse to the mill to extract her memories and feed them to the Lake.
But when extracting the memories of her suicide, it corrupts her soul, and she goes on a killing rage, stopped in time by Aldous just before she kills Harvey.
He then takes her to the room at the bottom of the lake to be plugged in the machine as they wait for Dale.
Once Dale plugged as well, the process start.
They both clean their mind of the corruption within them
Dale by going through therapy and accepting his past and his mistakes
And Laura, by revisiting her life and her death, and accepting that she is gone but can still be useful to the lake, helped by the words Aldous told her to calm her down.
And only after that can she balance her life in the cabin of her memory without being attacked by the manifestation of her suicide crisis (symbolised by the code you can only have if you played seasons).
This is my interpretation, it's not perfect, but I think it's the closest we have right now
@solid elm
unkempt galleon
but dale escaped the room with the extractor machine
and ran away with the golden cube
solid elm
@copper hawk thanks
copper hawk
@unkempt galleon
And he escaped the Paradox room with the Golden Cube in the chapter 2 secret ending
solid elm
@copper hawk do you mind summing up Daleās life ( at least up to the latest cube escape game ) too ? I absolutely love your theories and interpretations
Also, side question: what do you think happened to Laura after she was at peace with her suicide ?
Did she just go to heaven ? Or something like that ?
copper hawk
we don't know yet
but she most likely got enlightened in some way
Aldous is Elizabeth's son
He marries someone and has a child named James
He works in the Hotel, and gets the gun of his mother as auto-claimed inheritance
He passes of as dead to be clear of the wrath of his family's souls
Finds another woman
Has a baby girl
Finds the elixir
His girl marries
Give birth to Dale
at his 9th birthday, Mr. Rabbit come back to take the gun Aldous "stole" and kill everyone
(Aldous passes of as dead again but finds yet another woman, the one in the Mill)
Dale is the only survivor and gets sent away from his home town, the one Rose will eventually move to with Laura
He swears to avenge his parent's death by becoming a detective
He gets Case 23, the murder / suicide of a woman in his former home town
And then the rest is pretty self-explanatory
also Dale went through years of therapy because of his trauma
solid elm
@copper hawk 4806 how did Dale manage to survive the birthday massacre ?
copper hawk
Mr. Rabbit didn't want to kill a child, and even left a "sorry" letter behind him
solid elm
Thatās darker than I expected
copper hawk
OR MAYBE HE DID DIE AND RUSTY LAKE IS PURGATORY
AAAAAAAAAAAH
x)
jk
but that would be an interesting troll theory
solid elm
So do the people at rusty lake have bad or good intentions ?
copper hawk
neither
they're selfish and will do whatever it takes to get what they want
which includes associating and killing one another
tawny sandal
man aldous is a ho
so do the folks at rusty lake just want the golden cube or immortality or whatevs
copper hawk
they want the philosopher stone, and its recipe includes the golden cube
tawny sandal
how do we know this?
copper hawk
they're searching for "the full elixir"
there aren't many other known alchemic alternatives
the elixir of life is a by product of the philosopher stone
but the one they created is incomplete
it's not perfect, since it uses the life of someone else to work
tawny sandal
i see
copper hawk
the full elixir doesn't need to kill anyone
so no transmutation
creation from nothing
-> philosopher stone
to be more exact, Primera Mater
but the Philosopher stone is made out of Primera Mater
so yeah
solid elm
Dang. I feel like we can create an entire series based on this game
copper hawk
I propose this symbol for the full elixir
solid elm
Either a live action or an Adult Swim cartoon
Itās actually interesting that the cube escape series starts off as a horror game and ends up being a mystery game
Seasons is depressing and scary as hell
thin elk
Huh
I definitely see how this might work
It's got both the samsara wheel, a cube (or a square, whatever) and a triangle which is just always good to have.
tawny sandal
i mean paradise was pretty freaky too
solid elm
@tawny sandal that too
copper hawk
the wheel already represents the elixir so
well, yeah, HP did take A HUGE inspiration from the philosopher stone symbol
solid elm
Looks good
copper hawk
well, yeah, HP did take A HUGE inspiration from the philosopher stone symbol
HP :
philosopher stone :
for the PS, you either have the choice of making an equilateral triangle, or make it so the top of the little circle is in the centre of the big one
idk, both look good
... What is this heresy ?
this is no stone
that's a load of shit
x)
I'm being harsh here but... that's not the right symbol
It's like writing an inverted R, you know what it means, but that's just not right...
anyway
solid elm
HP took inspiration from a lot of European traditions/myths so Iām not surprised
humble drift
that is absolutely incredible
left stone
How did u draw that?
copper hawk
SolidWorks
It's a 3d modeling program
But I use it whenever I need precise drawings in 2d
copper hawk
It's a mix between a cube, symbolising Rusty Lake, the wheel of life, symbolising the elixir, and the symbol the Philosopher's Stone
copper hawk
And I made it as a symbol to represent the "full elixir"
copper hawk
Fuck I made the wheel in the orientation
Wrong orientation*
I'll fix it later...
But the branch of the wheel should be horizontal and cross, not vertical and cross
copper hawk
Yeah but the way the program is made, it let's you make really really precise drawings
It's a 3d modeler for actually printing out your models, or creating renders, after all
I already made a real model that I printed, in it
Yeah, it's that precise
red wave
Red should be the third secret alchemist brother from Rl
onyx nacelle
so what does it say
left stone
š± š š š š š š š š š š š š
red wave
@left stone ?????
unkempt galleon
@copper hawk is that gallifreyan?
copper hawk
yup
at least the readable fan version
I modeled it because when I was messing around with words
I saw some that were making pictures of what they mean
for example, on the first picture, it's written "time and space"
"time" looks like a grandfather clock, and "space" like a comet in front of a solar system
and the other one is "past present future"
the interesting part is that the 3 circles kinda interlock as if they were piled
and "past" is under "present", which is itself under "future"
unkempt galleon
pretty sure i have a gallifreyan symbol sheet somewhere
unkempt galleon
yeah i definitely used the first one at some point
copper hawk
the second is just for how to place the vowels relative to the consonants
I think they're missing the single point...
there
also, here's the corrected version :
copper hawk
looks much nicer
copper hawk
3d model
yes, the central circle is actually somewhat pyramidal
just like the cube
sudden minnow
What the...
copper hawk
When you realise the wheel of life is derivate from the seed of life...
copper hawk
vague imp
oh god this hurts my eyes..XD
red wave
RED recently left the server, but he is in another, so if you want to contact him 1-post here we will talk to him, 2-talk to me so I can add you on that other server
craggy panther
what? why?
spice frigate
in his own words, he's tired of being ""threatened"" to get kicked out/banned
craggy panther
is there another RL server?
spice frigate
not really a RL one, but just one for people from here or something ehhhhhhhh Idk how to name it???
vague imp
i could inv if you want?
bold owl
Yeah, it's totally me and RL's fault for enforcing the rules, not his for breaking them, being passive-aggressive, trying to shift the blame and "playing the victim card".
vague imp
uhhh say not to be the guy to say this but..
spice frigate
Lucid, I understand. at this point he left the server himself, and the "threats" were actually just... warnings, nothing more. But I think we shouldn't be talking about it.
vague imp
shouldnt this been in #the cabin? ^ and well yeah that also
bold owl
Just as a warning: These situations won't happen again. If someone breaks a rule, I will hand out one warning, and one warning only. After that they'll be kicked/timed out.
spice frigate
hey man, if you wanna talk about this, you can always hit my DM's to vent it all out
I'm open for anyone so they can feel a little bit better
bold owl
I'm not trying to vent? I'm stating that I will not let rule breakers pass by unpunished anymore.
I try not to be cruel, but being too lax is clearly not working out.
red wave
ok.......
spice frigate
I'm gonna respond to this in #šļ½the-cabin
copper hawk
Before I leave for good, I just wanted to use my right to answer to what Lucid said about me, because those accusations are just ridiculous...
I never said it was his or RL's fault for me leaving
I never said I didn't break the rules
I never shifted the blame
I never played the victim
I want to be clear with you about all of this
I am a problem, I always was, and will always be as long as I'll stay on this server
I know it, Lucid knows it, the devs know it, everybody knows it
I'm a stupid mess of a moron human being
I'm only victim of my own actions
And I deserve everything that is happening and had happened to me regarding moderation
I even deserve worse
BUT
Even if I deserve it, I'm still tired of this
I'm tired of all the bullshit drama, and ban threats I receive
So all I want to do is just get out of here calmly, without making any more unnecessary mess
I want this server to be calm, I want my social life to be calm, I want everyone to be fucking happy
This is why I'm leaving
But as it was already said, you can still contact me on another server if you want to
Just ask @vague imp or @red wave
I hope you understand... And please, don't turn this into more drama, I'm really trying to get this out of the way as nicely as possible
Thank you all for the good times I had, and sorry for trashing the place...
craggy panther
this channel will be empty without him....
vague imp
Also saying this since i was tagged in this, please dont come to me asking what happened between Lucid and RED ((one of you did already)) i am only supposed to invite you to the server, not to tell what happened.
bold owl
It's not Ban Threats, they're WARNINGS. If you break rules you'll get a warning before you get banned. We gave RED lots of second chances even though he continuously broke rules and started drama, this being just an example of what I said he was trying to do. I guess we should've banned him earlier, though. I apologize for this attempt of his of creating unnecessary drama, but this perfectly exemplifies exactly what I said about him. And @left stone, shame on you for biting into it.
To anyone wondering, nothing happened other than a rule breaker complaining about being punished as such after being given multiple chances to change their ways.
Any other attempts at starting unnecessary drama like this will be immediately deleted, followed by a ban. This is in direct violation of rules 2 and 3. Have a good rest of the day, people of the lake.
vague imp
Damn. That was a lot
I respect you for that
red wave
/:
spice frigate
Okay, let's just close this case already please?
It's slowly tiring, both for people who doesn't want to hear it, and mods...
jaunty crypt
sigh he's even been banned... Atray you're not that Lucid...
jaunty crypt
I have indeed a problem with this type of moderation
Lucid, I just wish we were going to you and me in MP so as not to polluze the channel advantage
bold owl
Then DM me
left stone
@bold owl ye i feel shame
bold owl
It's funny that someone tried to take the one thing I said in jest to lighten up the mood out of context. What I meant with "shame on you" was you tried to find out what the drama was when there was none lol
vague imp
T poses to assert dominance
left stone
@left stone
night forge
...And it continues. May have ended, may have not. We dunno.
manic glade
In terms of theories? Iāve been replaying the games lately and have been thinking about how benevolent or not Crow and Owlās motivations are
manic glade
All of them, just in general
spare raft
Oh I am not sure about that either
Well GOoOOOOOOOOOOD MORNINGGGGGGGGGG
Iām from Long Island, California
And I am tired so letās get this show on the road
manic glade
Iām from Long Island, NY š
We should move to #š©øļ½general-chat if weāre not talking about theories though
bold owl
It's actually #šļ½the-cabin for non-rusty lake stuff
gilded solstice
Iāve always believed their intentions, by itselves, are neither evil nor benevolent, per se
Aldous wants to perfect the elixir, Jakob seems to be following the family legacy ... in a weird way
grizzled horizon
Ohh man there's a theory channel
rubs hands together
So I have a theory, and idk if anyone has already said this, that Albert Vanderboom is Mr. Deer
I also have a theory that in the timeline(? paradox is weird yall) where Dale gets enlightened, he becomes Harvey
hollow raptor
HARVEY IS DALE
manic glade
Albert Vanderboom as Mr. Deer? Interesting, how so?
grizzled horizon
Itās mostly about that deer skull
Thereās also that weird backwards voice, presumably from a corrupted soul working for Misters Owl & Crow, that we hear in various cube escape games
grizzled horizon
Like when
manic glade
*The Mill
grizzled horizon
Right but
manic glade
In case 23 Dale calls that number on the phone and hears the voice, in The Mill weāre playing as Mr. Crow and we have the other side of that conversation
And then later in the Mill Mr. Crow says all the lines Laura hears in seasons over the phone in that voice
grizzled horizon
Then why does he have that voice
manic glade
An excellent question š
Itās been suggested that itās because his mouth is sewn up at the time
I have no idea
I mean out of the game the voice is there because itās a reference to twin peaks, certainly š
And it might not be only Mr. Crow every time we hear it either
grizzled horizon
There is also the fact that the voice & Albert share the line āthere will be bloodā
Maybe thatās nothing but
manic glade
As for Mr. Deer, what about when Mr. Deer and Mr. Crow are separate people in Hotel? And how does Nicholas Eilander fit into it?
Er, sorry
grizzled horizon
I dunno I feel like that Pepe Silvia meme rn
manic glade
Forget the hotel thing, I was thinking Aldous, not Albert š
But yeah Nicholas probably fits into it somehow
Also Mr. Deer is in Hotel, Albert is Alice before and after the events of Hotel
Heās nearby, certainly
*alive
Hm
grizzled horizon
š¤
gilded solstice
albert is related to mr. deer somehow (i mean, look at his shadow) but he is not mr. deer because like someone said above the events of hotel and roots were somewhat simultaneous
so they were alive at the same time
late for the talk but yeah djsjfjf
night forge
Hmmm... Albert may still be alive, right? Dale takes out his brain and survives, Bob gets shot in the head and survives, why not Albert?
manic glade
It depends on what is actually happening in reality and what isnāt
grizzled horizon
Yeah itās pretty well established that the brain thing is a metaphor
But Albert surviving? Perhaps
gilded solstice
but he was buried and everything, right?
Rose even takes his bones for the ritual/sacrifice
one might argue it could have not been albert, but considering the sacrifice was all of family members, i doubt it
spice frigate
unless
1 - it was cover up and the "bone" was actually someone else's
2 - he faked his death and ran away (? wonder where)
3 - he somehow got out of his grave (Oh hell that's hard) and ran away
hollow raptor
well, Abert is teased to appear in a new game, however, this game could take place during the time span of Roots, before his death
spice frigate
Hm, right, I forgot about this possibility
hollow raptor
I guess we will have to wait for answers until the game release š
manic jungle
But isn't it accepted that the story (at least somewhat) revolves around Bob? Unless this is another game that plays over a long timeline like seasons or roots, it couldn't be albert
spice frigate
@manic jungle We're talking about the other game that got Teaser Trailer (I think it was Teaser?) "Many happy returns" (not a title btw!)
manic jungle
oh, ok. RustyLake, you need to stop putting out so many teaser trailers lol!
gilded solstice
for the possibility about the bone being someone elseās, as i said, i donāt think so, because the sacrifices had to be within family
i believe the āmany happy returnsā teaser will be a game set during roots itself
perhaps the years we havenāt seen of albert having to raise these two kids
rose and leo
i saw a white door screenshot that just made me question everything i could possibly know though lol
but maybe iām overanalysing
weāll see
i get Very enthusiastic when itās about roots, my bad
tawny sandal
yeah ive always wondered abt what leo was doing until he was drafted
vague imp
Yes it is the Scottish dude @vague imp
Aka my uncle
spice frigate
@gilded solstice Same here dude, when I saw Albert I just SCREECHED because seeing him once again? I know the big storm is coming
gilded solstice
oh me too actually, i yelled a bit fjfhg i felt bad for my friends who had to hear me yelling about it for the whole day
spice frigate
I can yell about something for a day also, oh boy... when yesterday on E3 Nintendo showed Animal Crossing New Horizons... I just couldn't stop talking about it for whole day
red wave
??
spice frigate
Meanwhile me: Still wondering why Mary and Emma are doing devil horns
red wave
i think they just use similar clothes
tight forum
they clothes looking alike
red wave
something more?
spice frigate
well @red wave
It's just re-using texture
red wave
People, Red decided to stop answering theories on the other server, so it's no use sending messages to me or Gideon
jaunty crypt
yee
floral cloak
Other server?
spice frigate
We just don't want it to be brought up again, that's not what this server is just for.
Sorry that Gideon sounded rude, but just don't ask what happened etc. etc. it's literally "done"
so on later page - don't ask
floral cloak
Ok I understand
bold owl
The other server was made by some members of this server as a more intimate gathering place. It's a multifandom community run server of which I am not a part of, while this one is the official server, created by the developers of the game.
There used to be an user here who had lots of theories about the games and the Rusty Lake universe in general, but unfortunately he was banned after breaking rules multiple times. He was still on the community run server, and people would go to him to discuss about theories. After a disagreement with both me and the devs, the person decided to stop making theories altogether.
This message is to clear things up as most of you don't care about server drama or don't know about the existence of the community run server or the banned user. I hope to put an end to this issue and answer some of your questions. I will not touch this subject again as it's been dragging for far too long and I want to put an end to this, both for the sake of the wellbeing of this community and my own.
jaunty crypt
k
left stone
Okay
floral cloak
Ok
jaunty crypt
okƩ
red wave
ok
vague imp
Ok
night forge
I coulda DM'ed them...
night forge
GASP! Theory!
What if the games were all made by Van Gogh (ie. paintings, or something)
patent oxide
Nah, this couldnāt be the case
night forge
Why not? Everything is kinda his style
patent oxide
Almost everything
night forge
Like Arles looks like his painting.... "Arles"
manic glade
I mean itās based on it, yes. If you mean the art style Iām not sure I agree
I mean
forest zealot
What if white doors is a door to different pasts or whatever
grizzled horizon
Then wouldnāt it be a blue door? Cuz blue cubes allow you to change the past
gilded solstice
i think in this case white doors would just allow you to see them
the white door seems, after all, to be about following a routine
i think itāll be about a loop again
vague imp
Ok
Well Harvey appears in another RL game also may i remind
both before hotel and roots even happened, but i wont spoil that
manic glade
Yeah roots takes place from 1860 to 1935. Hotel is 1893
vague imp
Ohh I forgot that! I've played all games, you can tell me.
manic glade
So theyāre concurrent
vague imp
She/he appears in Paradise as an easter egg
manic glade
I personally just think Harvey can turn back and forth from full parrot to human-parrot thing. And is very old
vague imp
Ah
dapper valley
I wonder if Harvey is the same type of immortal Mr Crow and Mr Owl are
Slight tangent here but if Laura is an reincarnation of William and she was apparently murdered, then turned corrupted, did she really die
gilded solstice
You can also tell Hotel and Roots happen at the same time because if I recall correctly, in one of the first stages, with James, if you look out the window with the telescope you see the guests in Hotel. Itās part of a puzzle, even.
I think Laura is currently in some sort of limbo with her corrupted soul
vague imp
Already mentioned i think they were confused about the wikia more
gilded solstice
Yeah must have been edited incorrectly, unfortunately ):
manic glade
Actually the wiki looks fine, from what I could see
gilded solstice
Ah yes, now that I saw the screenshot I see it seems fine. But it does happen sometimes
dapper valley
am i dumb for not realizing harvey was a female until i read that on the wiki?
she lays eggs but i didn't even think about it lol
spice frigate
Canonically, there is no answer to whether Harvey is Male or Female. It's all a mystery for now, but there is no problem with person calling them "she" as you said - they lied an egg in Theatre
spice frigate
yeah, true
dapper valley
I realized some time ago that the way each guest dies in Hotel is somewhat related to their occupation
I was also a bit bothered by the fact that Ms. Pigeon is supposedly an electrical engineer yet she thinks it's a great idea to take a bath with an electrical device 2 feet away
Perhaps she deserved that lol
night forge
All the deaths are ironic
Yet, I suppose, that their occupations are their weaknesses, since they use it so often, it's quite easy to turn them against it.
patent oxide
This is not what you guys think, not a bubble bath at all
night forge
I'm making a theory about the little white float y things
manic jungle
Since we're talking about hotel are the five that Mr owl has killed, his family from paradise that he has killed in revenge for sacrificing him? Or are they merely an incredible coincidence that he searched out for and uses as a therapy to take revenge on what happened to him in paradise?
dapper valley
was he even doing it for revenge at all?
for reasons we don't quite know the lake has to be fed memories of people (or animal people I guess)
night forge
Yeah, that might be it
manic jungle
Yes, but it is interesting that the masks that they wore correspond to the paradise sacrifices. So, why is that? Did they transform after they saw that it worked in him and he decided to screw them over or...
dapper valley
Well was he reluctant to be sacrificed?
That's a dumb question but he doesn't really say much about it
But who knows if the masks are even related
Or if they are how so
manic jungle
The masks must be related, because those masks are the same animals that get sacrificed in paradise. The question is why
night forge
Hmmm... I got a really weird idea. What if Emma Vanderboom's arm was amputated?
manic glade
What do you mean?
night forge
Her right arm, we never see it
manic glade
Now that you mention it sheās always in the same position after sheās a baby/child
dapper valley
made me think of that random arm that cuts itself off in the Cave
night forge
Maybe it is?
manic glade
There is an arm that just appear in several games
night forge
Hmmm... interesting
manic glade
*appears
night forge
The events that happen in rusty lake can be taken literally or figuratively, so in this case, the arm being a literal arm has an explanation
manic glade
I personally donāt think the arm is a metaphor. I like to think thereās literally a disembodied arm that goes around
spice frigate
I think The arm not showing up, is because of perspective we look at
I mean, I sometimes make joke that Mary and Emma make devil horns out of nowhere, probably to heavy metal band affiliation (that's a joke, not an actual theory from me)
night forge
We see it in cave and birthday, anywhere else?
manic glade
The hand?
night forge
or the arm?
night forge
I don't think there's much of a difference
manic glade
Though it doesnāt come out of the wall, itās just nailed there as I recall
night forge
What? Where's it in roots?
manic glade
Itās nailed inside the cabinet where James gets the engagement ring
night forge
Well, that one cannot be Emma's
manic glade
Oh and itās in paradise as well, as an Easter egg/achievement
night forge
I don't think those are canon
karmic crest
a shot to the side of the head
is usually
brain damage
not death
well instant death in this matter
but still
he probably struck some major nerves
dapper valley
Yeah he still talks even after shooting himself in the head
Then you can later find him in the bathroom
But of course this is Rusty Lake
Weird shit can happen
karmic crest
that's true
i only just thought of this because
hmm
side shots
he probably survived somehow?
this was probably just a hallucination ig
dapper valley
It's prob a more metaphorical thing
night forge
@karmic crest He's gonna be in the new game, btw
karmic crest
I forgot about that
dapper valley
I forgot to mention, in theatre he turns corrupted when you check on him in the bathroom
I forgot if the time he turned corrupted in case 23 was a separate timeline or not
So I wonder where the white door will be in the timeline
tame sage
Okay but real talk
I cannot help but like ... really want to see what animal 'Enlightened' Dale is going to turn into. If that's the path they go, make that one canon or at least seen, I feel like it'll be painfully obvious in hindsight,. But.
BUT I WANNA KNOW
sobs
dapper valley
A fish is one possibility
tame sage
That's what I was thinking, truthfully. First thought.
But how would he breathe
dapper valley
He would be an immortal fish-man ruling over a lake that needs to be fed memories I think that's the least weirdest thing about all this
tame sage
listen sometimes you have to grasp on the finer details in a world of weird
this whole scenario soudns .........................
Fishy
dapper valley
It's p ironic that Dale has icthyophobia
For his other symptoms it's p easy to assume they're rooted in his childhood but when/how did he develop a fear of fish?
tame sage
I want to know that too. To be fair, I don't think we're going to see it - just that he has it.
we've already seen one quite traumatic childhood incident 8D;;;
I mean if we do SICK yes please
I just don't want to get my hopes up, weeps
dapper valley
I doubt it's just there
It's probably actually important, we just don't know yet
There's nothing in Birthday that related to fish
Interestingly enough, Rusty Lake is also noted to be a place for fishing
tame sage
Hmm. Maybe an incident at Rusty Lake when he was smaller.
To be fair after some of the things Laura fished out in Lake I wouldn't blame the poor guy.
kind glen
Hey guys, sorry to jump into this discussion so late lol but there actually is a fish in birthday!! It appears in the mousetrap and u feed it to the cat, basically just another puzzle and theres not a strong fish theme in birthday, but it's enough for dale to associate fish w the Darkest Day Of His Life
red wave
Fish is Dale?
red wave
jdhdjs sorry i didnt understood the text at first
kind glen
That's ok I'm constantly incoherent
dapper valley
Ah right
I didn't remember the fish in Birthday
It seemed minor but ya never know
kind glen
It's really easy to forget I just don't played it yesterday lol. I get where ur coming from like, the fish are never in the spotlight really?? So it's hard to tell
Yeah!! And about the thing someone said uhhh traumatic incident t At the lake. The fish is probably symbolic of what's under the lake, u know, memories and corrupted souls. 
. Dale's fear of fish is tied into that but I'm not certain how exactly
north pasture
HEY I JUST REPLAYED THEATRE
āhis memories belong to the lake nowā I THOUGHT MR OWL WAS TALKING ABOUT DALE
HES TALKING ABOUT BOB
I ALWAYS FORGET HES A CORRUPTED SOUL NOW
bold owl
Poor Bobert "Bob Ross" Hill
north pasture
GOD Iām so exited for The White Door
(grabby hands)GIMME THAT SWEET SWEET BOB CONTENT
kind glen
Yall mind if I unload a bob hottake here
"Robert hill-false accusations" is a book title found on the shelf in Paradox. The rest of the books come from Rusty lake characters - jakob, caroline, ida, and aldous i believe. But Robert Hill is a real person.
https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=4428
Basically Robert Hill was falsely accused of murder and went to jail, but then was acquitted. I think an important part of this is the man who convicted him, homicide detective Scarcella. Scarcella has had 14 exonerations. Could he be connected to Dale somehow? And because there are so many Scarcella cases, why choose Hill's? He must be important. Is he connected to Bob, the nickname for Robert?
north pasture
ššš
oh YOOOO
and bobs name IS canonically āRobert āBobā Hillā SO
manic glade
The name āBobā itself is likely a reference to Twin Peaks
The rest of this may have come from that though
north pasture
:0 o wait is there a twin peaks character named Bob?
I STILL need to watch that show
manic glade
Yes there is
A pretty important one
And I do highly recommend it, itās my personal favorite, but itās not for everyone
But yes thereās a Dale, a Laura, and a Bob
kind glen
Yeah I came up w this rite after paradox so it's like. True that this Is bob bc now hes got a confirmed full name, v interested to. see how this plays out. Im glad u thought it was interesting :}
loud rover
It was an attempt to explain. Someone suggested they imagine Dale and Laura are sort of 3rd cousins.
wraith pecan
and you missed out the paradise 5
manic glade
The Eilanderās, I assume they mean
loud rover
Oh
Yeah, the point of the family tree was to explain how Dale and Laura could be related in any manner.
There are a few unknown factors.
wraith pecan
but maybe the Eilanders are related
loud rover
I like the idea, (The similarity between the last names merely being a coincidence doesn't sit well with me.) So I wanted to make a chart that would somewhat explain that.
wraith pecan
if not why in the paradox all things are in the file drawer
loud rover
The earliest point in which the family tree could branch off, (While still remaining mostly canon compliant,) is assuming James had at least one unknown sibling.
One may go back further and suppose that William and Aldous had another sibling. But I would imagine they'd mention them, even if they didn't partake in alchemy.
wraith pecan
Vander boom
Vander meer
any thoughts? maybe a change in family name?
loud rover
And of course, I'm also taking the liberty to assume James is one, (if any,) of Aldous' offspring. And the reasoning to that is, I believe it's stated that in the beginning of Rusty Lake Roots that James is William's nephew. And as I previously stated, I don't believe it's likely for the alchemy brothers to have had another sibling, without them ever being mentioned. Therefore, the only option left through this line of reasoning is that James is Aldous' offspring.
manic glade
William his Jamesā uncle, that much is certain
wraith pecan
yes thats the fact
loud rover
The change of the name, may be due to the potential unknown sibling just wishing to branch off?
loud rover
Away from the chaos of the lake
wraith pecan
they just tangled together in some way
loud rover
Paradox, was interesting.
wraith pecan
with some explainable and some that don't
such as the connection of Vanderboom and Vandermeer
loud rover
Paradox, basically revealed that Dale was going to be the new keeper of the lake? Or something akin?
wraith pecan
with the golden cube, Dale knows all the things
but he didn't get the exlir
maybe the the green vial IS the exlir
but he died due to the 1/2 chance and that untangle the killing circle and paradox
loud rover
I know there's a new game upcoming.
manic glade
A few, in fact
loud rover
Dale is trapped in a time loop, from what we understand, correct?
wraith pecan
my instict is that the rusty lake is a life long series
manic glade
I would argue that in one of the endings he escaped it
wraith pecan
that will never have an official ending
loud rover
I hope it is
manic glade
But potentially, yes
loud rover
I kinda love it.
wraith pecan
remember Samsara room?
maybe that is the answer
the cube is somehow connected and Dale is now a cube traveller
manic glade
I donāt think that game shares anything more than gameplay and loose thematic similarities
wraith pecan
but some theory put that as a prequeal
manic glade
Sure but the developers very intentionally have separated it from all of the Rusty Lake games
wraith pecan
okay acceptable reason
I believe that Dale is the new ruler of the lake
but why would that urges him to kill Laura
manic glade
Perhaps that was just his own subconscious torturing him with guilt for not being able to solve her case
wraith pecan
paradox: he is the one who solve the case and the murderer
loud rover
Heh, another thing about that family tree I made.
I had no idea how to connect Laura with the family tree, so I just sort of put her separate.
manic glade
Maybe some kind of line connecting her to William, yeah
loud rover
I thought Laura was William.
manic glade
She is him reincarnated, yes
loud rover
Ohhhhh
I get what you're saying now.
I was thinking, maybe put grey lines behind the black ones, all connecting to Laura?
Rose can have a dashed line.
And William
grizzled horizon
Also, wouldnāt that mean Laura is technically a trans woman? Since in her past life she was William
wraith pecan
not really
manic glade
Iām not getting into that š
loud rover
The better question:
Is Laura MtF, or FtM?
wraith pecan
Imo william is dead and the ghost should be genderless
loud rover
š¤š¤š¤
grizzled horizon
Laura is MTF because her past self was a man & now sheās a woman
thin elk
It... doesn't work that way?
loud rover
It's complicated.
wraith pecan
I think ghost and sprites whould be genderless
loud rover
Just like all things in Rusty Lake
thin elk
It's not even that though
wraith pecan
Dale should be some legendary creature too
he literally cut his head open and take his own brain out
and insert someone else's brain
three times
loud rover
Rusty Lake is a bizzaro world.
thin elk
William died, and since nothing has actually happened to his body, he's not a trans, even by technicality
Reincarnation is just reincarnation lel
loud rover
Let's drop the topic, it was mostly meant as a joke.
wraith pecan
back to the family tree
thin elk
Ah, yes
grizzled horizon
Paradox is more of a metaphorical look into Daleās psyche, really
thin elk
There's a few things wrong with that
wraith pecan
I think that if the family tree you made can be made similar to the one in Roots is so damn cool lol
grizzled horizon
He didnāt literally pop his brain out
thin elk
For one, neither aldous or william were ever specified to have a son.
loud rover
But fish can literally appear randomly?
wraith pecan
well you should catch fish with a rat trap
thin elk
All's it say was that James's is William's nephew. Doesn't mean he's son of Aldous
loud rover
Yeah, the family tree wasn't meant to be definite, it has a bunch of missing variables.
It was mostly meant to present an idea on how Laura and Dale could be related in any manner.
wraith pecan
don't think that there is a third person at the Aldous gen
thin elk
Oh, no
wraith pecan
all of that are theories
manic glade
Well āVan Derā is a relatively common Dutch naming convention, to be fair
wraith pecan
not necessarilly true
loud rover
Good point.
manic glade
Since it just means āOf theā š
thin elk
Vandermeer and Vanderboom are only connected through a trope translating somewhat loosely to "Speaking names"
manic glade
I always forget which one it is, many languages have something similar in their names
thin elk
It's meant to signify a person's character in fiction, and in this case is VERY hard to imagine actually becoming into something useful
You don't see two people, whose last name is Johnsen and Johnson saying they're related, now do you? ;)
loud rover
I'd probably think it'd be an interesting coincidence.
wraith pecan
but I think that there maybe a intended change in family name in order for him and her to avoid the fate but fail
manic glade
(Van Gogh mean of/from Gogh, a town thatās on the border of Germany and the Netherlands)
thin elk
Change name to literally "From the Lake"? Sounds like a daft idea if you want to escape the influence of the Lake
wraith pecan
some family name is change intensionally in order to avoid chasing by enemy irl
manic glade
(Thatās unrelated to anything just a fun fact)
thin elk
Besides, the Vandermeer family still got their bodies handed to them by a rabbit with a gun, so I don't think that was much successful
loud rover
There's unknown variables. But it's interesting.
wraith pecan
you see, the face and hair of his parents is not THAT similar to Dale
at least the eye
loud rover
Also, another thing.
If they don't have correlation, why is Dale chosen as the new keeper of The Lake?
Who is Dale to them?
thin elk
Also, going back to the tree. I think it's safe to put Laura under the three vanderboom cousins and call her their science project
thin elk
Well, why is Owl so special?
loud rover
His family
manic glade
His mother really loved him
wraith pecan
the theoratical tree should be pin in order for us to trace
thin elk
Eilanders were just a bunch of scrubs who got possessed, if anything Aldous should've taken the lead
wraith pecan
cube represent memories
loud rover
But weren't the Eilanders involved with the cubes for generations or something?
wraith pecan
how if they insert cubes into their parents head to think that Dale is their son?
his gradnpa knows something apparently
thin elk
If they did, they were very rubbish at it
wraith pecan
maybe the parents is the one who shouldn't belongs to the tree
loud rover
Well, they did sacrifice people.
thin elk
Also, Dale can't be adopted. He sounds exactly like his dad ;)
loud rover
Outside of family, how else could Dale be special to them?
thin elk
Mic drop
wraith pecan
but in this game, vaule sound and family name?
thin elk
Well, Dale is the first person that got eaten by the lake only to survive like a champ
wraith pecan
is he?
loud rover
I wouldn't be very happy, if it's just a "Choosen One" scenario.
wraith pecan
agree with Binetou
loud rover
Some random mysterious power
thin elk
Nah, it's not that
He has his sheer will, childhood trauma and Laura's many pics guiding him
loud rover
Rusty Lake is a bizarro world, but usually things have more correlation than that.
wraith pecan
It is somewhere related but we still couldn't find out due to lack of information and prove
actually we missed out Harvey
thin elk
Yes, Harvey is Dale
loud rover
What
thin elk
Not bars hold
wraith pecan
what?
hollow raptor
Harvey is Dale 100%
wraith pecan
Harvey is not Dale
thin elk
I SUMMONED THEM
kind glen
Kinda having a hard time following this conversation but uhhh do u think mr rabbit connecting jakob/mr owl and dale means anything
loud rover
And the fish is Mr. Owl.
wraith pecan
no way Harvey is Dale
hollow raptor
Harvey is everyone
wraith pecan
Harvey is everyone
loud rover
The Rusty Lake Team would like to know your location.
thin elk
There
wraith pecan
maybe Bob is Dale
thin elk
Nah, that would be Cthulhu
manic glade
Yeah
hollow raptor
#justiceforbob
thin elk
Essentially
thin elk
Actually, there is a reason
loud rover
He hit that science experiment, the science experiment hit back.
thin elk
You know how corruption starts?
kind glen
I wouldn't day no reason:/ white door will reveal more too
wraith pecan
extraction of bad memories
thin elk
You have too many bad memories and too few good ones
wraith pecan
the instruction said extraction of bad memories causes the body to corrupt
kind glen
Remember the mill like that's what happened to laura
kind glen
Soooo do u think bob was given the Rusty Lake Treatment like that and that's how he was corrupted?? But like the hotel guys just died and went corrupt right??
thin elk
Corruption happens when bad memories overpower good inside one's body
kind glen
It's probably just memories in general idk if it has to do w good or bad ones.
Bc its after both sets r gone
wraith pecan
mill instruction is clear
thin elk
Now, who, of all people inside the Rusty Lake franchise has been through the most shit?
Bob
wraith pecan
bob agree
manic glade
I donāt know I think there are some Vanderbooms who have had it pretty bad.
thin elk
Not only he had witnessed his gf/wife/whatever develop a mental illness that caused her to take prozac, he also lost her to some random-ass anomaly in the middle of nowhere
kind glen
My money's not on bob like. What happened to him was uhhh his girlfriend broke up w him and died, he got arrested, committed mental suicide, and got corrupted. That's standard stuff
manic glade
Frank and Leonard especially
kind glen
FRANK lole yall think bob had it bad????
thin elk
Yeah, but neither frank nor leo actually ever shot themselves, now did they?
manic glade
No though Leonard likely got shot, possibly a few times
loud rover
Bob did shoot himself, because Rusty Lake is a bizzaro world where you don't question certain things.
kind glen
It was the theater of Dale's mind it wasnt concrete events
Not contradicting that rustylake is bizarro tho lol however if I dont question it I'll die
thin elk
Shooting himself started a reaction inside of bob that unleashed all the bullshit that's been piling on him for the last who knows how long, and it expressed itself in form of bad memories overtaking the walking corpse without needing a machine to back that up
loud rover
You don't question the fish.
kind glen
Hmmm interesting take it sounds plausible
fiery dome
i would think laura has it pretty bad
her only lines are pretty much a horrified shriek and she gets her throat cut every other game
wraith pecan
kind glen
Poor William like. U died and ur brother gets to be a hot crowman forever, and then u spend the next several decades harvesting ur families organs to bereincarnated, only to DIE HORRIBLY,
thin elk
M8
wraith pecan
reference of extraction of bad memories corrupts the soul
thin elk
Laura literally got corrupted
loud rover
Laura: "H-" Gets throat slit.
wraith pecan
after dale extracts the black cube
note that Laura corrupted in the mill at the second extraction which is the black cube
spice frigate
everyone in rusty lake universe has it pretty bad
wraith pecan
also time to cross reference, in the cave, the book said to say that black cube is to face your demon, so that is why the soul would be corrupted
someone is not that bad
spice frigate
You live there, you laugh, you pretty much die
kind glen
Do u think that's why birthday happened ?? To lessen Dale's black cube count ??
Bold of u to assume anyone's laughing in rustylake
spice frigate
insert Albert laugh from Roots
loud rover
When Mr. Owl/Jakob's head changes to the fish, what does it represent?
loud rover
Yeah
wraith pecan
fish acted a very important part in the whole series
kind glen
Ohhh it could literally be another face ur fears black cube thing
wraith pecan
maybe related to william in diving suit?
in the cave
he is in diving suit
old style one
kind glen
Fish are more connected to dale than anyone else
The diving suit was bc of thesubmarine, I dont think that's it,
loud rover
He has a fear of fish.
wraith pecan
need fish? rat trap can help you
kind glen
Nice connection tho
wraith pecan
but still his under water experience maybe make connection between william and fish
bine wait he has a fear of fish?
kind glen
Yes but it's not as important. The icthyophobia is mentioned in paradox and the only connection to it is the fish in the trap in birthday
Jakob wants dale to be the next Mr owl type figure correct??
kind glen
Ok so similar concept. I think dale has to get over the fear in order to ascend
fiery dome
the real tea is that mr crow has it the worst bc he has dainty little hands and feet. how is he supposed to be intimidating and mysterious when hes got baby hands
i mean look
kind glen
ALDKFKLDKDKDLDKSKKSKSKSKKE
fiery dome
so small
kind glen
@fiery dome
wraith pecan
crow becomes crow after the conqeur of death
so to overcome fear maybe is the truth of all
kind glen
Babby hands
fiery dome
mr crow said uwu
wraith pecan
mr owl is a owo hiding behind a wall
with one eye and his mouth on the outside
but Dale's grandpa definitely know somthing
who is he
kind glen
Possible connection between Dale's grandpa and Mr crows fleshsuit?? Or is that just a stretch
wraith pecan
why would he knows that Dale can do something like that
kind glen
Ll old people look the same to me
He didnt know dale turned time back, they didnt remember
dapper valley
sorry to interrupt but that reminds me: does Mr. Crow have human hands and feet that are crow colored??
anyways carry on
dapper valley
also in Birthday since it's an altered memory grandpa might actually be Mr. Crow
fiery dome
u just exposed urself for having a mr owl hands collection
wraith pecan
maybe we need the official to explain someday
dapper valley
he looks like him when he's in the form of an elderly man
dapper valley
we don't really know if Dale's grandpa actually looked like that at the time or even existed
kind glen
Yes!! He does and theres othe old people so we know rustylake can do more diversified char design, so the similarities night really mean something
wraith pecan
maybe grandpa is a Vanderboom instead of a Vandermeer
dapper valley
because remember the whole game takes place as Dale viewing this memory through a cube
kind glen
I dont rlly think theres a connection between vanderboom&vandermeer tbh, but if there is that could make sense
dapper valley
and of course this memory gets altered
kind glen
That's true!!
wraith pecan
maybe the paradoxical connection point IS Dale's Grandpa
maybe he's the one who connects and know the things
dapper valley
I don't think we have any other info on him besides Birthday
so who knows
I still think he was artificially placed or changed by Mr. Crow
wraith pecan
or maybe the first round of birthday is ordinary grandpa and the second round of birthday is crow possessed?
too much theories that official won't explain of tell us correct or not lol
kind glen
Yeah I wouldn't take it too far, at some point it is too wild for rustylake
wraith pecan
yep
dapper valley
Grandpa doesn't show up at all
kind glen
Yes and it was a little difdferent
wraith pecan
oh damn
kind glen
So u think he wasnt actially there ?? Its been a while since I paradoxed
dapper valley
wait there's something I need to
Remember that test Dale did with Mr. Crow where you had to match pictures with love, confusion, or fear?
wraith pecan
who do you thiink is the hand in the red covering sheet in paradox ch 2?
dapper valley
was there a picture of grandpa?
wraith pecan
forgot
dapper valley
i feel like there wasn't
kind glen
I dont think so