🤔｜theories

[bright parrot]

Yeah that explains

Maybe he went in underground room of hotel

And captured

[median solstice]

yeah that's pretty much mr deer

[bright parrot]

And elevator to make him feel like he was in elevator

[median solstice]

that seems a very far fetched plan lol make an elevator to be an elevator just to feel like it's a moving elevator but it's the truman show or smth

[bright parrot]

Its not like truman show.
More like inception.
Starting from the thing person was already doing to avoid continuity error

[median solstice]

I'd like to see them go through the effort trying to make all that happen

Excellent bts material

[azure bay]

That's where Dale went after the cabin

[azure bay]

No need in 3 level conspiracies

All of Case 23 happened

Since we have Crow watching over Dale most of the time

[final atlas]

The woman has died in the house or in the lake?

[bright parrot]

She died in the house

[final atlas]

paradox says something else

[bright parrot]

Paradox is not real

It either symbolises something

[final atlas]

[bright parrot]

Or dale is just being brainwashed

[final atlas]

What happens after paradox?

[bright parrot]

That changes with perspective

If we go from Dale's perspective

[final atlas]

Hum.

[bright parrot]

The caves ending

Dale was in the white cube

And now he is free

[final atlas]

That he picks the Golden cube

[bright parrot]

Yes

And goes in elevator

[final atlas]

Then?

[bright parrot]

That's all we know

About dale

Maybe they have kept the last of dale as a dessert lol

[final atlas]

And the woman? In the white Cube?

[bright parrot]

She's laura

She's sus

[final atlas]

I've forgot

[bright parrot]

So here's a recap

Laura died

Dale came to investigate

And then we see 3 episodes of Dale's past

Or maybe 2

And now we see dale in white cube

Going somewhere

[final atlas]

she committed suicide, right?

[bright parrot]

That's not confirmed

There's more to the picture

Laura's death is not that small tast

[final atlas]

Two games say that she comitted suicide

• paradox (not real)
• seasons

[bright parrot]

As I said can't say suicide

Seasons death was real

(apparently)

And in Paradox its a symbol or more like choice to dale

Either he die for Laura

[final atlas]

The soul behind her is herself or another one?

[bright parrot]

Or he kills laura and lives and gains enlightenment

[bright parrot]

Ots Dale's CS in paradox

[final atlas]

In seasons

That's the point

[bright parrot]

What's the point

[final atlas]

Nevermind

[bright parrot]

Look

[final atlas]

But, in the moon in seasons

[bright parrot]

Laura is in a state where she can be saved

And its upto dale

[final atlas]

This tricks my mind

[bright parrot]

I also find it confusing and I doubt it being canon

[final atlas]

Remember, its Just memories

Imagine, you, in the real life, look at the moon and there is the window of your house

[bright parrot]

Seasons is a bit sus

Coz laura died before fall

But we see her memory of Fall

[final atlas]

Soul

Too

[bright parrot]

I've talked to the guy over there we are best buds now XD

We don't know much about laura

What was her purpose

Did she knew that she was william

[final atlas]

Idk

[bright parrot]

Maybe the train game will ans all that

[final atlas]

Maybe his memories vanished or something else

[bright parrot]

Don't know can't say

[final atlas]

We can't say anything because we don't created the game

[bright parrot]

There must be some purpose of William for creating laura

The one I believe is

Retaking the elixir

[bright parrot]

Nah not that
We just don't know enough

[final atlas]

Even the dog was immortal and William died

[bright parrot]

That's how elixir works

One lives and other dies

[final atlas]

Its random

?

[bright parrot]

Maybe that's how laura and dale will come to a conclusion

[bright parrot]

Maybe
It may appear random but I believe its karma.
Good guy lives bad guy dies

[final atlas]

James was a bad Guy?

[bright parrot]

Idk
But doggo good

[azure bay]

the whole elixir stuff contradicts karma

[final atlas]

Hello

[azure bay]

hi

[bright parrot]

Idk about karma on elixir but there is something bigger to the picture

[final atlas]

You guys already stopped to think that the Room in seasons doesn't have a door?

[bright parrot]

Room in seasons is the living room of Laura's house

And all we see is a memory of her in that room

[final atlas]

Yeah, its shown in case 23

[bright parrot]

How
And do you believe selection of life and death is random

[final atlas]

But when you click in the door, the Room disappears

[bright parrot]

Maybe because case 23 is also a memory

[azure bay]

drop it

memories are real

[bright parrot]

I believe memories are real

[final atlas]

Yeah

[azure bay]

you can't explain weird stuff by memories anymore

[bright parrot]

Then make it tpw

[azure bay]

if weird things happen in memories they can happen in the reality

[bright parrot]

||One memory one cube||

[final atlas]

Question: The person only becomes a corrupted soul If It dies in the lake?

[azure bay]

I don't know if it's random or not, all I know is that wikipedia states that karma defines the realm of one's next life. That's the most likely to be the source of the dev's knowledge.

And even if in RL karma exists there's a ton of ways around it. From cube extraction to elixirs.

[azure bay]

no. and you don't have to die to become corrupted

[final atlas]

Oh

Only extract the memories is enough right

?

[azure bay]

there are many ways

[final atlas]

Drink the BLUE vial

[azure bay]

I think that specifically was a dream

[final atlas]

Dream?

[azure bay]

I'm convinced that Dale sees Paradox while being connected to the machine in The Cave

Madness is another way of corruption

Bob in TWD and Van Gogh in Arles

also depression Bob in Case 23

[final atlas]

Wait, that guy in the white door is Bob from theatre?

[azure bay]

yeah

[final atlas]

Wow

[azure bay]

Bob used to be a background character until they made his personal game

[final atlas]

Arles doesn't change nothing in the history right?

[azure bay]

you mean the story?

[final atlas]

Yup

[azure bay]

irrelevant for Dale's arc

but could be connected to Owl's schemes

[final atlas]

How's connected?

[azure bay]

just another patient of Owl's

not confirmed in stone tho

[final atlas]

Yeh

[azure bay]

my reasoning is based on the Starry Night alterations

in RL it features the lake

[final atlas]

Harvey was a human before rusty lake hotel?

[azure bay]

not sure

we saw him as a parrot in Paradise

some say the devs called him ancient in Q&A

[final atlas]

I think that is Just an easter egg

[azure bay]

the "ancient Harvey" rumor would imply otherwise

[final atlas]

If immortal animals become humanoids, why the dog doesn't?

[azure bay]

I think Harvey is a big exception

other people say that during the same Q&A they called him a guide

[final atlas]

A Guide?

[azure bay]

maybe some kind of bodhisattva

or dunno

[final atlas]

Idk

[azure bay]

there was no context

just guide

[final atlas]

Just it

[azure bay]

If Harvey is ancient indeed, I think we'll know what they mean in the 20k BC game

[final atlas]

I'm going to stop asking too many questions, I don't want to be boring or something

[azure bay]

no, you are pretty welcome

[real lantern]

Asking questions is the point of this channel!

[untold stump]

Personally, I think Harvey was the ruler of the lake way before Mr Owl and they helped him becoming the new master of the lake, just like now Owl is "training" Dale

[azure bay]

what makes you think so?

[untold stump]

Harvey has been here longer than Owl. And "We're back where it all began : Harvey's Egg"

Also I like Harvey and I like to believe they play a very big role in the lake, so im very biased

[azure bay]

Owl is Caroline's project. She orchestrated it alone, Harvey is nowhere to be seen in her memories.

As to "where it all began", she likely referred to eating Harvey's egg in Seasons. That was pretty much the beginning of her story and the series as a whole.

[final atlas]

why laura did it?

[azure bay]

no idea

maybe she was slightly crazy

maybe she was a bit poor and hungry

[delicate atlas]

Hey, nowhere, are gonna you make a video/videos about the RL args and how they tie to the plot?

I feel like they have lots of lore in them but I always miss them

[azure bay]

when time comes

the recent ARG will be covered relatively soon

maybe not in all details

but still

[delicate atlas]

I see, thanks for answering

[final atlas]

Samsara room takes place where?

[azure bay]

In some sort of purgatory

@final atlas

[final atlas]

I don't really know what purgatory is, could you explain what it is?

[ebon aspen]

Best definition would be a "state between 2 incarnations, where your past life gets measured bf you start another life"

Purgatory not really the best word and im not sure if concepts like karma are followed by book

[floral mauve]

SR perhaps, however, I dont think the each soul will go through SR everytime they get corrupted or enter CS stage

unless u say they travel through the SR instantly or less than 1 sec during the process of corruption

I personally find it hard to prove

since we dont have much example of it

[final atlas]

What is the first Cube Escape/rusty lake game of the timeline?

[covert wyvern]

Year wise that would have to be Arles right?

[final atlas]

without being arles

[covert wyvern]

Hahaha that becomes more tricky

[final atlas]

I always thought it was paradise

[covert wyvern]

Ooh that includes the rusty lake games

I thought you were asking about just the ce ones

[final atlas]

Sorry, i guess

[covert wyvern]

Nah nah is fine

I think ur right about paradise in that case:)

[final atlas]

i Will try to do a timeline here

[covert wyvern]

Goodluck!

[final atlas]

If i was wrong, Tell me

[azure bay]

Paradise is the earliest point in timeline so far

But a 20k BC game was teased several times

[bitter glacier]

Paradise - 1976
Roots - 1869 -1885
Arles - 1888
Roots - 1884 -1891
Hotel - 1893
Roots - 1895 - 1935
Samsara Room - 1935
Birthday - 1939
Seasons - 1964
Harvey's Box - 1969
The lake - 1969
Seasons - 1971
Theatre - 1971
Case 23 - 1971 - 1972
The mill - 1972
The white door - 1972
The cave - 1972
Paradox - 1972
Seasons - 1981

i think is that

[azure bay]

the horizontal axis is time, the vertical axis is the release order

partially based on theories

[median solstice]

eggcellent

[terse crow]

i just finished the last achievement in ce cave and OMG WHAT DID I JUST WITNESS

shit was incredibly hard to get but then finally

but what is the word and the number noted on that package and the pick of lauta

*laura

shi raised so much questions in my head

[azure bay]

all will be answered next spring

[terse crow]

what is next spring

new game?

[real lantern]

Indeed it is!

[terse crow]

CCool!

[dusky glacier]

Guys

do you have a reservation ?

Did you*

[real lantern]

Oh, best kept memory is best discussed over in #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg !

[slow ridge]

Personally, I prefer the original ending of The White Door, I know Sarah is trying to free Bob, but I would rather him keeping Laura’s memories in his head because she is always the one he treasures and loves most.

Also, since Bob is going to be useless if Laura’s memories are gone. Will The White Door really free him so he could be taken care of Sarah? Or is it just Sarah’s personal belief? I don’t think Mr Owl would be that generous to his patients. Maybe he would ‘kill them off’ so they won’t slip any secrets out for caution needs.

[bright parrot]

Do we consider secret endings canon

[delicate atlas]

I think they're alternative timelines

[bright parrot]

That's what I want to believe

We've seen alternative endings only in white door (idk about tpw) endings in paradox were more like a peice of puzzle

We may see more of bob and that will determine that may determine more of bob.

But I personally believe that maybe Bob's story is over for now. He got the "They lived happily ever after" ending and mostly in alternate endings it is either the end of story or the almost end (1 more game maybe)of story because its hard to maintain all the timelines.

[median solstice]

bob just waltz' back in

[floral mauve]

I sense nepotism as I claimed before

there are something sus going on between Owl and Sarah

[bright parrot]

Sarah was either a secret agent or her mind changed after watching bob.

[azure bay]

Depends what they mean by "useless"

So

What I see here

A roadmap of sorts

[bright parrot]

Harvey in bg

[covert wyvern]

I like the roadmap angle

[robust fox]

Also tpw tree

[azure bay]

The tapes are clear

[real lantern]

I do find it interesting that we see harvey with the tree from the ending of TPW

[covert wyvern]

I was going to count out the number of elements in the image

[azure bay]

Now I'm convinced we're getting a related game

[bright parrot]

A roadmap of what

[covert wyvern]

But I'm stuck at the lunch table lmao

I think we may dive into Harvey's ancient role as messenger of the lake or something?

[azure bay]

Events of 2023

[azure bay]

Could be

The timepiece is definitely a Metro game

[bright parrot]

So TPW and BKM or something other than it

[bright parrot]

For sure
Rose had that time peice.
But I believe it was broken

[azure bay]

Not initially, mind you

[real lantern]

Theres also the baubles, theres a lot more yellow than purple ones, but that could be me reading too much into it lmao

[robust fox]

2 golden cubes?
From the two yellow ornaments on the table

[azure bay]

Considering other Xmas stuff on the table, maybe not

[bright parrot]

Yellow is an odd colour for showing Christmas celebration.
People generally go with red and white

[analog yacht]

gold and silver are popular too

[azure bay]

Still, they can be reminiscent of golden cubes. Even without promising them

[analog yacht]

as is green

[rare agate]

The sky is just a mirror to our soul

[robust fox]

Pencil and paper seem kinda random as well

[bright parrot]

What about that grape colour
Is that for blood

[azure bay]

I guess, we'll see them in a game

[azure bay]

Color of the lake on the logo

[bright parrot]

Maybe there are 2 Nintendo giveaways

[covert wyvern]

That pen is a very popular standard issue around here

[azure bay]

Bic

[bright parrot]

Maybe that's from giveaway
Coz people are writing things

[azure bay]

I'm mostly confused about Owl's outfit and his dinner

[covert wyvern]

Cannibalism

[real lantern]

Fish is quite tasty

[covert wyvern]

Adjust tin foil hat

Oroborus

[bright parrot]

Why is there a line running to the back of his head near the beard

[real lantern]

Thats a realy smol knife and fork set

Thats like the size of one of his fingers

[azure bay]

Honestly, I don't feel like discussing design choices

[median solstice]

santa hat figure

[robust fox]

Blue is a very strange choice considering they could have easly kept his normal red and have it be kinda christmas themed

[median solstice]

actually my sleep hat

[covert wyvern]

Honkshoomimimi core

[covert wyvern]

Good observation!

[bright parrot]

What do flowers mean

[robust fox]

Tpw ending tree flowers

[azure bay]

Could it be his finale?

Owl's I mean

[robust fox]

Seems to be more of a Vanderboom storyline so far but maybe?

[azure bay]

What do u mean?

[robust fox]

All the Rose and Albert stuff going on seems to indicate that we will explore Vanderboom family, not mr Owl & Eilanders

[azure bay]

That's not necessarily the case

They can explore multiple storylines

For example, Harvey doesn't seem Vanderboom related here

[bright parrot]

Every hybrid was once a human. That also implies to harvey. We don't know who he was before becoming a hybrid. But we see him many times near vanderboom so that may mean he was a vanderboom.

[azure bay]

he was...

a parrot in

Paradise

[bright parrot]

So he was a bird at the time of paradise

Then became a human

And then a hybrid

[azure bay]

we don't know that

[bright parrot]

Same happened with owl.
As he told in paradox he changed forms which included fish

[azure bay]

the fish was his future

he didn't become it yet

[bright parrot]

Then its the cycle as I said before.
Human->CS->Hybrid->Animal.

[azure bay]

what cycle?

[bright parrot]

But Harvey must have something related to the lake

[bright parrot]

Samsara cycle

Its what it is
I just believe that same concept is applied in game.

[azure bay]

please, just stop. The cycle is about dying and being reborn. nothing more. it doesn't tell what form to be reborn in

[bright parrot]

Fine

But still there is something with harvey

One more thing unrelated.
I find elixir more like a lock
You can lock an organism in its form for eternity with the help of elixir. Like you feed an insect the elixir and boom he's insect forever.

I just don't know if elixir also grants regeneration.

[analog yacht]

I'm under the impression that some changed after the elixir, no?

[azure bay]

humans

[azure bay]

unless the animal dies during the ritual

[bright parrot]

Evidence

[floral mauve]

Also bkm confirmed an owl corp

Millionaire owl is still out there

[azure bay]

that's how elixir works "One will die the other will find enlightenment"

[floral mauve]

He lives!

[azure bay]

Owl corp doesn't mean Owl yet

[bright parrot]

Ah that ritual.
Yeah.
Btw immortality is not enlightenment.

[analog yacht]

for now

[floral mauve]

Sad

[azure bay]

I know, Just quoting Caroline's book

[bright parrot]

I believe that caroline is enlightened

[azure bay]

Jakob is

she died

[bright parrot]

So she must be in some other form

[bright parrot]

What does enlightenment mean?
My definition of enlightenment is breaking free from the samsara cycle.

And I believe that I am wrong here

[azure bay]

in RL it seems to be about being reborn in one of the highest forms

[bright parrot]

So hybrid is the higher form

[azure bay]

Asura

and Deva

[bright parrot]

Deva is what I call breaking out of samsara cycle

[azure bay]

ok but the devs tell that Dale will be one

I trust them more

[bright parrot]

Yeah that's true dale will be a deva
But I don't belive that owl is a deva

[azure bay]

neither do I

[bright parrot]

He is asura

[bright parrot]

Yeah sry forgot that

So asura is the antagonist

[azure bay]

no

RL is only inspired

[bright parrot]

So only owl is bad

[azure bay]

I think he's rather Machiavellian

[bright parrot]

So then there is something bigger to the picture

[azure bay]

the lake

[bright parrot]

I believe the lake is narka or the hell

[azure bay]

the forest is

maybe the lake itself is too

but there's more to it

Paradise

The Past Within

[bright parrot]

I can't say much about TPW but I believe that paradise was like birth of a new ruler

Or maybe birth of hell itself

[azure bay]

I'm speaking of the plagues

[bright parrot]

I need info about the plaques(from the bible).
Why do they occur. And how are they cured.

[azure bay]

biblical details are completely unrelated

[bright parrot]

Anyways here's a little details I love about RL game.
"The crow is considered a messenger between dead and alive and can travel in time and space" IDK if that's like just coincidence but that's pretty cool

[bright parrot]

You sure bud.
Any symbolism or smth

[azure bay]

nah

the plagues were a punishment for Egypt people for not letting Jews out their country

[bright parrot]

The plaques were punish for eilanders for not letting jakob and Caroline be one of them

[azure bay]

quite a stretch

[royal notch]

Probably for not receiving sacrifices.

[bright parrot]

If they said biblical plaques than that must mean something.

[royal notch]

The cubes were still in the island.

[azure bay]

Caroline knew of the sacrifices. And knew how to fight them.

[royal notch]

Not Nicholas.

And he killed her.

[azure bay]

that means she was unlikely the direct cause

Also

[bright parrot]

What was caroline sacrificing

[azure bay]

there was a prophecy about last 2 plagues

[royal notch]

Yeah, it all started with her death. That time the cubes were first discovered by the Eilanders (except Caroline) and kept them.

[azure bay]

how do you know they didn't deal with the cubes before?

[royal notch]

At least these are my thoughts.

[azure bay]

they had an old well for memory tributes

[royal notch]

No evidences, but some things were off. The "cube cage" could be there for gameplay sake, in the memories we see that the well was being used for bigger sacrifices (poor kid). The Eilanders, in my opinion, always used human sacrifices to feed the lake, not knowing that It needed only the memories. Caroline understood that first, but for some reason she cleared her studies in a secret part of the cave. She didn't manage to finish her researches because Nicholas was going to sacrifice her son, so she begged him to leave Jakob live as we know, with herself in exchange. For some reason, her memories were extracted while burning her (probably the cubes have particular behaviors within heat, but that's another story), and the Eilanders decided to keep them in the isle, not knowing what those were. This time they sacrificed a "empty" body, causing the Lake to require its cubes. That's my theory.

[azure bay]

they literally had a giant cube drawn on that well

[royal notch]

You mean the painting?

[azure bay]

yes

and the other one

with the prophecy

of whole 2 plagues

also a cube

also the lake needs fresh memories who'd provide them if not Eilanders?

if the thing about corpses is right

why would Owl bother himself extracting the cubes?

also the chapel

built in 1384

cubes are everywhere

[royal notch]

The Eilanders WERE giving memories without actually noticing, the Lake would extract them autonomally.

[azure bay]

why would Owl need to extract them?

it's much easier

[royal notch]

To save innocent lifes.

[bright parrot]

Cubes are memories as told in games.
They are meant to be extracted from brain.
So why there are random memories everywhere.

[azure bay]

he saved no one. He could damp Laura's corpse and that would work just as well. But no he extracted the memories and created a dangerous beast

[bright parrot]

And what do they do with black cube other than fixing it.

Coz lake only needs white cubes

[azure bay]

no, that's just wrong

the black cubes are offered all the time

[bright parrot]

So they extract white cubes to keep people safe

[floral mauve]

indeed, it seems like white cubes is something new

discovered by pigeon

[azure bay]

no, I think bad memories are just more frequent

[azure bay]

they extract just cubes

because the lake needs just cubes

[floral mauve]

idk, need more evidence

we dont see white cubes exclude the big white one

[azure bay]

white cubes are good memories. That's it.

[floral mauve]

at earlier times

[azure bay]

because all the memories of Caroline were somehow bad

all the memories we saw I mean

[floral mauve]

she had a miserable death so I guess its fair for her last thoughts

but for other ppl we dont know

[azure bay]

we don't have other people

but I see no reason for them being any different from nowadays people

Laura, Bob

[floral mauve]

idk sample size is problematic and still based on assumptions

but tbh we have the same point

earlier days its full of black cubes

we dont see any white cubes except the big one

[azure bay]

I don't think it's a memory cube

at least it doesn't act like that

[royal notch]

Sorry for the silence, I had gone lunching. Laura's corruption, anyway, could have been something necessary for the process for the golden cube. Or at least an unavoidable consequence by extracting her memories. As i said long ago, i see Owl's letter as a recommendation to be prepared rather than one to pay attention in order to avoid something. But that's just my point of view.

[azure bay]

"use the machine wisely, extraction of painful memories could corrupt the body"

not "use the machine wisely, we want painful memories to corrupt the body"

[royal notch]

They actually needed it.

[azure bay]

evidence?

[royal notch]

The book in the cave.

[azure bay]

there was nothing about her corruption

[royal notch]

I was talking about the cubes.

But their extraction causes corruption.

In many cases.

[azure bay]

we've already been here

they COULD if you use the machine UNWISELY

[royal notch]

Why can't this be a natural consequence? Laura got corrupted, Dale is currently facing the problem, Bob needed therapy... i can't stop seeing a regular pattern.

[azure bay]

because Owl says so

simply

also

Best Kept Memory

the side effect is potential

[royal notch]

Gonna stop you here.

Please.

Just spoiler problems.

[azure bay]

no spoilers except for that

they propose experimental memory extraction service

and soul corruption is once again only a possiblity

[royal notch]

I don't want to be rude, but I still didn't play the past within

[azure bay]

TPW is almost unrelated

the future protagonist works for The White Door

Best Kept Memory uses fruits of their research

that's it

[royal notch]

OK then, thank you.

[floral mauve]

thats actually very interesting, because as I think about it, bkm really is almost unrelated to tpw lmao

its not like the white door

[ivory girder]

there has to be a way for all of these to be connected together tho like no way they just dropped an almost completely different arg than the content of tpw 😭

[azure bay]

For all of what?

[ivory girder]

bkm stuff

like tpw and bkm are about almost 2 different things

[azure bay]

They serve different clients

TWD cures mental issues

[ivory girder]

i meant tpw not twd pls 😭

[azure bay]

I'm sure The Future takes place in TWD

[ivory girder]

ah

[azure bay]

Do we take it literally ?

[delicate atlas]

The tree being samsara?

It reminds me of that forest

The gray one

In paradox

And in the depths of the lake

And the one that appears in the play in theatre

And the blender jumpscare in seasons

I think since the forest always shows up it must be important

And now we know people can turn into trees

So maybe all those trees in the depth of the lake are people

And so people turning into trees in the RL universe is part of the samsara cycle according to this drawing

I think it's the hell part

[azure bay]

I'm speaking of Rose

Decades before she was even born

[delicate atlas]

Oh my bad

Then it's probably a prediction or foreshadowing

Like, a prophecy

[bright parrot]

I thought this was emma
Coz hair look a bit blonde.
But now that I look into it yep she is rose.

[bright parrot]

I have the answer for how Crow is old in mill and young in theatre etc.

If we look in "Roots"

Crow says to CS of William
(In child's play)
"Poor children their lives will be full of misery but their legacy will be of great importance"

I believe that crow can easily travel between space and time in memories

That explains bday, paradox etc.

[delicate atlas]

I see what you mean

He always has an answer for everything

And knows everything beforehand

[bright parrot]

And is present everywhere and that too with different forms of his body in different timelines

In mill he is old

In theatre he is not that old

[real lantern]

Havent we already agreed that theatre is in dale's mind?

[bright parrot]

Yes
But its a memory, so is bday.

Btw what happened in theatre also happened in reality that's why it's in Dale's mind

[real lantern]

Yeah, and crow can clearly manipulate memories, so he could easily just make himself look younger for any reason

[bright parrot]

Yup exactly.

Each RL game is a memory.
But the real question is how he can manipulate

[real lantern]

Not all rusty lake games are memories

[bright parrot]

What I personally believe is that every rusty lake game is a memory it's like an episode of a series. And that's why reality is altered.

If you think about a memory your mind in that memory will not think that it's a memory but if that mind (which is in the memory) will think of a memory then it will be conscious of having a memory its like a loop like in inception you may lose touch of reality.

[real lantern]

I dont see why something like cave or hotel would be a memory, to me it seems like adding another step to something that doesnt need it

[bright parrot]

Idk man
Considering anything reality or memory may not change a thing there is a very thin line between reality and memory in RL games

Anyways reality and memory is more of a relative term to me.

[bright parrot]

Also
Tpw spoilers
||Idk I've not played the game but nowherecrow confirmed that it's in an infinite loop like memory in memory and so on so maybe not considering it a memory of same (let's call it level) level will add extra steps||

[azure bay]

There's no evidence to place this assumption over the others. Like Owl and Crow have ways to see the future.

Or they can mildly alter their appearance

Or Crow's elixir has got weakened and he grew older

[azure bay]

We have another perspective

Bob's

It diminishes likelyhood of any of them being fake

[alpine hollow]

guys

guys

in the best kept memory site

this image is from a band

but i cant find a connection

[covert wyvern]

not much of a theory in that case is it!

but yes, good catch.

[median solstice]

Rorschach

But what do you see

[alpine hollow]

well

i dont know

but

i think its conected to the past within

because of the butterfly, the bee and the corrupted soul

when i select one of those, it shows a wierd code for each of them

and i dont know how to solv

[covert wyvern]

it's part of the arg:)

all arg things are discussed in #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg

[small rover]

Hello guys

So I have a theory about the game(I don’t know if anyone said it before me. I’m gonna read the texts later)

[covert wyvern]

Haha don't worry too much about that! Doubles happen especially here

[small rover]

So the whole game is trying to put us inside a crazy person’s mind. Their mind had created that confusing and weird world of Rusty Lake with the people he had seen throughout their life, because our mind can’t imagine faces out of nowhere.

Or

[floral mauve]

I cant imagine faces out of nowhere neither

[small rover]

The person is again insane, but all of those cubes are symbolising his past memories which traumatised him to the point of going insane.
Or maybe the person has a mental health disorder and every cube represents a memory of the trauma in the past, the now and the happy future, which we can’t see still, because that person is going back to the point where there’s almost no hope left

[small rover]

Nobody can

[azure bay]

too many perspectives, too many time periods, too many things no one is able to know alone.
Too much to put inside a single mind no matter how sick it is.

[small rover]

Or maybe it’s a person who’s trying to escape a mental asylum. The places there represent the asylum and the people in his mind- the people and their craziness (kinda).

Or could it be a person who was put there against his will

[azure bay]

what games have you played so far?

[small rover]

Every game except the past within

Because I need a second player

And if I play that game

Maybe it’ll give me a bit of a better knowledge of the whole plot

[azure bay]

do you understand how many individual protagonists we have?

[small rover]

Yea

I understand that

But I think the main one is you trying to escape or understand the world, then there are the other ones. Everyone with their own background, etc. If we look at it like that, then everyone is the protagonist in their own story. Which means that this world is just a collection of the people’s daydreams or something like that. And the narrator isn’t part of the story- it’s there to investigate and to put 2 and 2 together.

Or

[azure bay]

Yeah, they have their own stories

but they are intertwined

[small rover]

Yea, they are

[azure bay]

too tightly to deem one of them crazy

[small rover]

I meant to say that the narrator is the insane one

[azure bay]

Who's the narrator?

[small rover]

Because like I said:
People can’t just make faces up out of nowhere, they had seen the people before, and based on their appearance, the narrator made a whole story, using them and their hypothetical background

[small rover]

The person, who’s playing the game

A.k.a

You

[azure bay]

and how are they connected to the world?

[small rover]

There’s a person who’s trying to understand the world, right?

That’s the narrator

Who can’t understand the thing that they possibly created

If we stick with my theory

[azure bay]

I don't get who you are talking about

do you have a name?

or a game?

[small rover]

I’m talking about the whole thing

The name is x (let’s say)

[azure bay]

are you talking of an abstract person we know nothing about?

[small rover]

Kinda

The narrator

I think we know nothing about them

Except that we are the narrators

[azure bay]

then what's the point? Even if we assume there is indeed some kind of narrator why do they have do be mentally ill? Why can't they be idk an elder omniscient being?

[small rover]

It’s just a theory

[azure bay]

or an archivist of sort?

[small rover]

I suggested more than one theory tho

Not only the about the insanity

And there is a narrator

They don’t have a specific name

But why an archivist tho?

[azure bay]

I'm used to theories based on evidence. Otherwise it's rather headcanon

[small rover]

Well

It’s a game

So everyone has a different take

And understanding

It can be anything

Yea

[azure bay]

yeah, of course

[small rover]

And I use my knowledge

[azure bay]

But what's the end goal? To guess the story intended by the devs or create one of your own?

[small rover]

Maybe both

A bit of both*

[azure bay]

actually agree here

but this still can be achieved by using in-game clues

[small rover]

I gave my piece of evidence (because it’s a game and it’s extremely subjective) to support my theories

[small rover]

Yep

[azure bay]

What I'm saying the personal touch comes from unique interpretations of said clues

[small rover]

I understood that

[azure bay]

but the problem comes when you try to ignore clues contradicting your vision

can we focus on your evidence, please?

[small rover]

Okay

[azure bay]

could you repeat it please?

what exactly makes you think there's a crazy narrator?

[small rover]

So

For the sake of my theories

The name of the narrator will be X

[small rover]

Not only crazy

But whatever

[azure bay]

now I'm willing to listen properly. What is this narrator again? (except for the part that he's us)

[small rover]

So

You know that there’s a certain someone who explains to us sometimes

A thing about and usage for the things we’ve found

Encountered

Etc.

And that thing isn’t the narrator

Is helping the narrator

Or us

So that’s the whole narrator thing

Not the part with the insanity or whatsoever

Because I think I needed to explain the whole narrator stuff

Since it’s the most ignored character in the game

[azure bay]

wait, I'm a bit confused

are you saying that the tutorial and other sorts of commentary aren't the narrator?

[small rover]

They’re part of that role

But aren’t 100% the narrator

It’s us and the something explaining to us the stuff

But the tutorial part is obvious

[azure bay]

what's the rest of the narrator?

[small rover]

Us

The people who play the game

[azure bay]

ok, now It seems I get your definition of the narrator

[small rover]

Oh okay

[azure bay]

what are they doing?

I mean

exactly

[small rover]

So

As I said

The narrators are the something giving us certain piece of history during the game

And us

Who are playing

And trying to connect the dots

[azure bay]

what about the story itself?

[small rover]

I think it’s all in the narrator’s head

In the us part of the narrator

[azure bay]

why tho?

[small rover]

Because of all the memories there may be linked to us

And all of the corrupted souls might be all the people the narrator lost

Or are linked to them

Somewhat

[azure bay]

what memories are you talking about?

[small rover]

The cubes are the memories, aren’t they?

The black, blue, gold and white

[azure bay]

they are but I'm asking of the specific cubes

I need examples

[small rover]

Like dude

Every cube might represent a certain memory or how the narrator sees the future etc.

But

A big BUT

The narrators are the same throughout the whole thing

But at the same time

Different

Because in Cube Escape you play in Dale’s POV

I forgot to mention that

[azure bay]

(in 4 of them, to be precise)

[small rover]

Yea

Because I’m some of them you get to know a bit more about Laura’s background

[azure bay]

and even Dale's BTS

[small rover]

Yep

Until in Paradox

The two narrators see each other

And well

Laura’s death

Which can be caused by her insanity from all of the bad memories

Or Dale

Killed her

But I think she committed suicide

Because we see later on

Dale investigating her murder

[azure bay]

what about the secret endings of Paradox?

[small rover]

Wait

I completely forgot about them

So

It’s like if you do something it’ll unlock your door for a different outcome

In the one ending we see Laura committing suicide

And the other Dale killing her

[azure bay]

I disagree

in ch1 it's Dale sacrificing himself to save her

in ch2 he takes the elevator to continue his journey

[small rover]

I think we can look at her death in two ways

I was talking about her death only

As a suicide

(Some people)

And Dale killing her

The one point of view comes from the short movie

And the other is my personal opinion

[azure bay]

I know 2.5 ways to fit Dale killing Laura into the narrative without contradicting her suicide

[small rover]

Because yea, he still sacrifices himself to save her. How? By killing her

[azure bay]

I think you are missing several important messages of Paradox

[small rover]

Can you tell them to me?

What have I missed?

(I’m not trying to be mean, just saying and my apologies if I came to look like a mean person)

[azure bay]

relax

[small rover]

I’m relaxed

[azure bay]

leave worrying about not being mean to me 😜

[small rover]

Okay

[azure bay]

It was stated several times that Paradox takes place inside Dale's mind. Not "memories" like in Birthday and Theatre but "mind".

The other important message concerns the choice and its consequences.

Dale: Maybe case 23 is the key to escaping my mind...

Mr. Crow: Did you really [made the right choice]?
Dale: I've got out.
Mr. Crow: You can't escape the boundaries of your mind nor the consequences of your actions. And neither can she [Laura].

VanderDeer: I know you've made your choice. Please, embrace your corrupted soul.

[small rover]

Oh yea

Thank you

I forgot about them

But this whole thing left me with one question

So Dale sacrificed himself to save Laura?

Like you said

[azure bay]

I think it's an alternative ending. Probably taking place in a different timeline

[small rover]

Exactly

It’s full of different endings

That’s why people understand her death differently

Some people think it’s suicide

Because of the film

[azure bay]

back to how I come to combining them

Paradox takes place in Dale's mind

[small rover]

I think everything is in Dale’s mind

Because memories are part of the mind but whatever

[azure bay]

ok, we can go further

the elevator is real

or rather the elevators

in case 23 Dale descends into the lake escaping from the cabin haunted by Mr. Deer's corrupted soul

then

[small rover]

Look

[azure bay]

what do you have to say?

[small rover]

I was going to say it in a different way

It’s related not only with the game

But generally speaking

So

Why I think almost everything is in Dale’s mind (for Cube Escape)?:
Because everything is related to his memories and memories are in people’s minds

[azure bay]

let me finish then

[small rover]

Okay

Sorry

[azure bay]

you see, the devs usually divide their games in 2 categories

Memories and "reality" for lack of a better word

[small rover]

Yea

[azure bay]

not finished yet

[small rover]

Aren’t they both in Dale’s mind?

Oh okay

Sorry

[azure bay]

let me please explain the difference

technically memories take place in the "reality" too. The thing is, in RL "memory" and "mind" are not synonymous. Memories can be taken away from it and stored externally in cubes. The extraction process was clearly depicted in The Mill

the "memory" games are the cubes people enter

but the cubes themselves are still in the "reality"

[small rover]

Oh okay

So the cubes are part of reality

But the memory in it

Isn’t?

[azure bay]

it's a tricky part

[small rover]

And I’m not saying that memory and mind are synonymous

I was saying that the cubes are in our mind in form of a memory stored in our minds

Which would lead to creating different solutions

I was trying to say*^

[azure bay]

many believe so or believed for a long time. I personally didn't and The Past Within reassures me about that. But for the simplicity sake let's distinguish "memory" and "reality" for a while

[small rover]

They’re intertwined but aren’t really related at the same time

[azure bay]

so back to Dale

[small rover]

What about him?

[azure bay]

we don't really have reasons to consider Case 23 as such

we don't see anyone entering a respective cube nor we get the "what do I remember?" line from Seasons and Arles

[small rover]

I think these are there in order to navigate Dale

Through his mid

[azure bay]

we'll get there

[small rover]

Because he enters in his mind

[azure bay]

we'll get there

[small rover]

Well we technically enter

Okay

[azure bay]

so for now I have reasons to believe that Dale literally entered the elevator in the cabin and descended into the lake

Because in The Cave (another game taking place in the "reality") we see a mural of him finally reaching the bottom and walking into a big white cube

in the end we as Mr. Crow find Dale down there chained to a machine and asleep

[small rover]

Okay

[azure bay]

the book in the cave itself implies that they need Dale and Laura to create a new batch of elixir

and, as we know from earlier installments, one will have to die so the other will be enlightened

the Cave ending is about Dale (still asleep) starting to flicker between human and corrupted state, entering another elevator after Crow giving him the golden cube

looks hell lot like Paradox' ch2 secret ending

which is stated to take place in Dale's head

said secret ending is what Dale sees while experiencing its counterpart of The Cave

then Birthday and Theatre

still the same elevator, still flickering between human and corrupted state, still riding upwards

that's the intro of both games

then he enters the cubes of his memories

the elevator is real

the cubes are real

they are floating around the lake, as Dale said both in Case 23 and Birthday

when he finishes his adventures inside a respective cube he leaves it and heads back into the reality, into the elevator, into the lake

the final destination of the elevator is the hotel

as it was predicted in the RL Hotel game

and if we look at the buttons inside the elevator they are the same we see in the hotel

further confirming that it's the same elevator Harvey was taking to visit the guests

[burnt shoal]

I’m sorry but what does “Dale's BTS” mean?

[ebon aspen]

Behind the scenes

[burnt shoal]

Thx

[vague imp]

I am still confused the memory of Dale's parent's being killed is real or not?

[delicate atlas]

They died

[azure bay]

what's the point of confusion?

[delicate atlas]

But the details are vague because of possible memory manipulation

[vague imp]

Some people say it's partly fake and some people say it's completely fake

[azure bay]

The original memory was about parents killed

But Owl altered it so Dale finds a blue cube and prevents their death

however

[azure bay]

The Past Within implies that memories are a form of reality

[vague imp]

Ok thanks for clarifications

[delicate atlas]

Would you consider it time travel?

[azure bay]

yes, its timeline branching variation

e.g. Owl and Dale have created a timeline where Vandermeers survive

[delicate atlas]

I see

So in RL, people enter a memory cube to travel back in time and relive it as themselves as the time but knowing what's gonna happen next in order to change it, right?

[azure bay]

not sure if they know what's gonna happen

[delicate atlas]

It seems so

Laura knew what she was doing in seasons

Dale knew where everything was

[azure bay]

I don't think so

[delicate atlas]

But he didn't know his parents are gonna die

[azure bay]

Owl knew

[delicate atlas]

I see, good point

[azure bay]

and Laura still died

only blue cubes let them return and change something

[delicate atlas]

Yeah but she revives herself in seasons using the knowledge she gained

[azure bay]

not only knowledge but also a blue cube

[delicate atlas]

Yes that too

Unless she's an outlier because she's a CS

Since rose used hints from Albert in order to change the memories and affect reality

And no other character did what Laura did with a blue cube

[azure bay]

blue cube was only a time travel tool

just like in Birthday

the rest was the machine she made

[delicate atlas]

Yes

I meant no one revived themselves as a cs using a blue cube other than her

[azure bay]

still, it wasn't the blue cube that revived her

[delicate atlas]

Oh yeah she didn't reverse the murder

I forgor

[azure bay]

I guess, technically she did

but it wasn't her murder

she saved a Laura

[delicate atlas]

But not her specific cs?

[azure bay]

not herself, let's say

[delicate atlas]

I see

[azure bay]

I think the machine was to integrate that CS into the newly created timeline

[delicate atlas]

In another timeline you mean

[azure bay]

yeah

[delicate atlas]

I see

[azure bay]

but I could be wrong

[delicate atlas]

That's fair

Thanks though

[azure bay]

np

[vivid owl]

Any thoughts about how harvey turned back into a bird man in the future instead of the parrot we all know and love in the past within?

[azure bay]

for now my guess is "it's just a future game teaser"

if it takes place in the future, it has to explain it

[vivid owl]

True.. that’s logical..

I just hope i can finally use the symbols from the collection in the upcoming game.

[azure bay]

I'm sure we will

this game was teased in the collection

[covert wyvern]

Yeah I think it's likely

[vivid owl]

Oh was it? I haven’t seen the trailer for it

[covert wyvern]

The secrets in the collection tease it

Plus the || secret at the end(sort of?) At the tpw arg has a teaser trailer||

[vivid owl]

I feel like I’m missing something.. do you get it by getting all the achievements?

[covert wyvern]

No

Haha

It includes the || weird livestreams and videos RLs been posting and also a website with puzzles||

This a very very brief barebones rundown of what's going on. If you'd like more info be sure to check the pins in #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg

[vivid owl]

Ohh

[graceful cairn]

I just noticed something while replaying the games and it's that the chess pieces in The Past Within look very similar to pieces you use to open the door when you are following the map in Paradox. Although some are not there the lady one is very similar to the one in tpw.

[floral mauve]

perhaps we are all pieces on a huge board named fate/destiny

[graceful cairn]

maybe

[bright parrot]

Can anyone just trace Harvey's timeline plz

Is he like really dead

After we kill him in seasons

[vague imp]

No

I'm gonna spoil something if you're interested

Okay ?

[covert wyvern]

No spoilertags needed here, you enter at your own risk:)

[vague imp]

Thx

[vague imp]

No he isn't

Because after killing Harvey in season , Laura will manage to find the blue cube and prevent herslef from killing harvey by freeing him 4 years (I think) before she killed them.

And also

In the past within

You can find Harvey in the future

[bright parrot]

Oh thanks

[vague imp]

And he's looking like a man as he used to look like in hotel

[bright parrot]

I believe that the cardboard box we see in case 23 in cabin is Harvey's box

[azure bay]

this specific appearance doesn't make sense and looks hell lot like a mere future game teaser

[vague imp]

I'm sorry what?

[covert wyvern]

Keyboard moment

[bright parrot]

And someone replaced your a with q

[azure bay]

sneaky frenchies

[vague imp]

Well it may be an easter egg or a teaser for something really important

[azure bay]

but not some lore moment

however

you're partially right

Harvey has chronological appearances after their supposed death

[vague imp]

Please elaborate

[azure bay]

The Mill, Birthday, Paradox all take place after fall 1971

[vague imp]

Okay

That's what I needed to know

[bright parrot]

So that means blue cube can alter time . I believed that blue cube alteres memories and we both are correct because RL is running in memory

[vague imp]

Btw guys

[azure bay]

you know what memories are

[bright parrot]

Yes

[vague imp]

Cubes

[bright parrot]

So that actually makes blue cube a time machine

And that means Dale's parents are alive now

[azure bay]

also ||a pocket reality||

[azure bay]

I think inside the respective cube

[bright parrot]

Which respective cube.
Does it affect the lore

[azure bay]

I mean...

how do I put it?

I think cubes contain timelines

otherwise more than a half of Cube Escape series wasn't canon from the start. And since The Past Within almost none of it is

[bright parrot]

I was thinking that you would say this
But adding multiverse adds a reset button to series.
Oh you messed up in this timeline but you didn't in another

[azure bay]

no. You need to proactively create such timeline

initially you have a copy of your own one

the same mistakes

and failures

but you can change them into something else

maybe there are timelines without those mistakes and failures

you just have no way to access them

[vague imp]

Guys

Have you reached the final achievement of The cave

[azure bay]

yes

[bright parrot]

Yup

It's a bit tough

[vague imp]

Same

When the box is opened

Key number 6 can be found

From the hotel

What do you think this imply ?

[bright parrot]

It's more of a teaser of new game

[floral mauve]

Rose dropped the crate, change my mind

[azure bay]

Laura coul've visited either Owl's room or some other one

[bright parrot]

Only because you said so
Cuts and replaces brain like in paradox

[azure bay]

Rose left the lake in Laura's infancy and we have no evidence of her returning there

[floral mauve]

good one since her daughter will return to the lake not necessarily her

But still not strong enough

[azure bay]

we know that Laura has returned there

[floral mauve]

There should be a reason for her action

[bright parrot]

Apparently Rose lived with laura in the house near lake where she died

[azure bay]

nope

[vague imp]

Oh wait I'm getting spoiled since I didn't play smsara's room

[floral mauve]

U think its a better way of preserving their past shared life than committing suicide and left it in her home?

[bright parrot]

And a room 6 of hotel

[vague imp]

See ya later

[floral mauve]

dont worry there aint much if u played Roots

[azure bay]

Samsara Room is just Roots ending but deeper

[vague imp]

Oh okay

[floral mauve]

still worth to play plus its free

[floral mauve]

thats the only reason I can think of

to hide it from others her past life?

should find bkm for that

[floral mauve]

which I dont think was founded though

[azure bay]

Could be a part of her supposed therapy. Letting the past go, etc

[floral mauve]

well, with that therapy no wonder after summer her mental state got worsen

[azure bay]

damn

my wishful thinking makes the game more and more disappointing

[floral mauve]

so She dropped the crate in summer 1971

[azure bay]

or in 1969

[floral mauve]

ah yes

1969

I got confused

yes

[floral mauve]

you can always create anticlimatic paths

[azure bay]

I mean

now I wanna see her childhood, her lake trip, Owl's plans about Bob and now it's her very death. All in the same package

and realistically that's too much

too good to be true

[floral mauve]

u mean physical package?

[azure bay]

nope

in the same game

[graceful cairn]

but doesn't birthday take place in the past?

[azure bay]

The event itself, yes. But the game is Dale riding the elevator in 1972 and revisiting the past

[graceful cairn]

so the event of Dale visiting is the part that take place in 1971 ?

wait so we know Mr crow and Mr owl but who is Mr rabbit in birthday?

[azure bay]

Didn't really get the question but here's all the relevant story.

In 1939 Rabbit killed Dale's faminly.

Decades later in 1971 Laura's dark soul kills Harvey (Cube Escape: Seasons).

A year later (1972) Dale takes the elevator and revisits 1939, that's Cube Escape: Birthday. Despite Harvey's death in Seasons Dale can meet the bird.

[azure bay]

Mr. Rabbit is a reincarnation both of Mr. Rabbit from Hotel and David Eilander from Paradise

[graceful cairn]

sorry I will rephrase it . So Dale going up the elevator takes place in 1971 but young Dale in 1939 (not sure of the year) is still in the past.

[azure bay]

Yes except Dale going up is 1972

[graceful cairn]

ok thank you :))

[errant trellis]

does anyone know of like a full explanation of all the lore?

[graceful cairn]

sure! so first the Vanderboom clan.
The Vanderbooms
Mary and James first appear in Roots which it explains the roots of the clan.
Mary and James have three kids, Emma, Samuel, and Albert.
Now Albert is in love with Ida. And Ida which is married to his brother Samuel. When I mean in love in mean IN LOVE (Albert is a little crazy) when Albert kills Ida in 1904 he uses a voodoos doll to kill Ida and then he keeps and preserves on of her ovarian eggs . Later he uses a big machine in his laboratory and uses various things like semen, water, and a strange green potion to create Rose.
Although there are relatives before Mary and James like WIlliam Vanderboom and Aldous Vanderboom

[errant trellis]

okay(:

[delicate atlas]

Razzjazz on youtube and his timeline videos, nowherecaw's videos as well

[errant trellis]

okay thank you!

[covert wyvern]

That's just a family tree

[graceful cairn]

ik it kinda explain that big rant up there 😅

there is more but i think the yt vid explains it much better than me

[errant trellis]

wait who is the unknown sibling?

also "a magical flower" has me cackling😂

[graceful cairn]

yeah...... that the Vanderboom family for you