Rosy | Graphics Programming | Page 5

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 6:07 AM

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this is very clearly intentionally not doing that

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 6:08 AM

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Can I see your VS though?

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 6:08 AM

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my VS?

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oh

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 6:08 AM

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vertex shader

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 6:09 AM

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wraith urchin vertex shader

https://github.com/btipling/Rosy/blob/41340cffef8caa11978d251fd197129d756748fa/src/shaders/basic.slang

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 6:09 AM

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Oh he does all his lighting in tangent space?

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 6:09 AM

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yeah

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as am I

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 6:09 AM

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I see, I do it in view space

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that might be where I'm consfused here

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 6:10 AM

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I don't think my shader is wrong

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clearly something is wrong

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reading the mittick code

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I think it's the tangents

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because it points out seams as a problem that appears

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 6:11 AM

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Well if you set up mikktspace you can be sure the tangents are correct

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 6:11 AM

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yeah

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trying to figure that out

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I removed that screenshot since it's copyrighted

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idk

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he intentionally does not publish digital versions

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he has new discord

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it's harder to understand what is being said there than the math discord

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 6:14 AM

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Alright its eepy time for me, probably a good idea to set up mikktspace for now at least

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Good night

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 6:15 AM

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thank you for your help!

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oh I found an nvidia example of using mikktspace https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/Falcor/blob/eb540f6748774680ce0039aaf3ac9279266ec521/Source/Falcor/Scene/SceneBuilder.cpp#L78

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oh I get it

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you implement the interface with a set of functions that return the various data it requests and then it calls a set tangent function you implement

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and you get the correct tangents

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ah

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they don't return data, it's C, you write the data to pointer parameter args

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I think I can do this

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it's kind of refreshing having a problem not related to using vulkan lol

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this is just a graphics programming thing

true moon Jan 30, 2025, 6:34 AM

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Just wait until you're implementing gameplay

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I've gone a long time without even touching a graphics problem specifically

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more variety is fun

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unless that variety involves multiplayer

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in which case it's not

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 7:24 AM

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I can't use mikktspace without a ton of work

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the code has too many warnings to fix

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and visual studio isn't letting me disable them

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I'm not going to turn off warnings as errors

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I got better things to do than fix some other person's code rn

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I don't care about these banners

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I'm going to add the nice lighting and I'm going to start working on my game

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after that

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 7:47 AM

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I'm just going to start working on my game tbh

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I'm not going to give up on sponza, I'm just going to take a break from it

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there's tangent generator code in lengyel

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when I get bored I'll work on sponza some more later

true moon Jan 30, 2025, 8:03 AM

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You should recruit your daughter to make some placeholder game art for you lol

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good age to learn blender and be subject to some forced familial labor

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 8:03 AM

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she said "yeah of course"

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I asked her to make a 3D robot for me

true moon Jan 30, 2025, 8:04 AM

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haha cool

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 8:04 AM

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she had blender open last week doing something

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she's also super busy with school, her school is tough

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way harder than my rural high school was

true moon Jan 30, 2025, 8:08 AM

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mine was reasonably hard although I didn't take particularly hard classes until I was a senior at which point I switched to community college instead and then was swamped

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but yeah school can take a lot of time

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even high school

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 8:43 AM

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hrm

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When I got out of the marines I went to community college for a year

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it was pretty cool

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really cheap

true moon Jan 30, 2025, 8:51 AM

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I went there for 3 (one year of high school and two of college) and then transferred to UCD, cut the cost in half

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 8:55 AM

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yeah I got an associates degree in that too

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same deal, it only took me 1.5 years to get through it, I didn't have a lot going on

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was adjusting to civilian life

true moon Jan 30, 2025, 8:55 AM

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I just took a lot of classes since I didn't really know what I wanted to do

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 8:56 AM

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I thought I wanted to computer science, but then I decided I wanted to become a police officer and that community college had POST training

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but then I took an anthropology course and thought it was cool and did that instead KEKW

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idk why gpAkkoShrug

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oh I remember

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I took an administrative justice course

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and the retired police officer who taught that was a nice guy but he wouldn't allow anyone to record his lectures

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because he was upfront about what the job was

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and I didn't want any part of it

true moon Jan 30, 2025, 8:57 AM

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I took their whole programming series in Java and then retook it in C++ the next year which gave me a lot of extra exposure and fluency that accelerated my whole CS learning path... then I switched to physics on a whim lol (but kept taking CS coursework)

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CC facilitated that messing around to figure out what I wanted, for nearly free

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 8:58 AM

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nice

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I didn't take any CS in college

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astral hinge Jan 30, 2025, 9:08 AM

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for some reason I thought you immigrated from Germany

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I think it was because of your name and current location

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the only other Bjorn I knew was my Valheim character from years ago

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if that sounds ignorant, it's because it is

true moon Jan 30, 2025, 9:11 AM

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Swede probably

astral hinge Jan 30, 2025, 9:12 AM

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Bjorn is a cool name anyway

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it's like inverse nominative determinism

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 9:44 AM

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I did live in Germany as a child for a good while

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my mom was German

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 4:04 PM

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cloud rivet and visual studio isn't letting me disable them

You should be able to disable specific warnings per file with some pragmas, we have to do it with our ancient code at work

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You will need correct tangents even if you are modelling yourself

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 4:25 PM

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Yeah I will try and use Lengyel’s approach once I need to

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 5:29 PM

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I dunno I still recommend mikktspace as that is what blender (& several other tools) use. So you can be sure that your tangents match what you see there

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 5:35 PM

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yeah seemed simple to use

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it just wasn't letting me wrap the errors with pragmas

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 5:36 PM

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You could also create it as a separate project (in the same solution), then link that as a static lib?

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You could set whatever options you want for that project

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 5:46 PM

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cloud rivet

I like this color scheme, I'm gonna use this for my game I think

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 5:48 PM

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The robot will be painted like that?

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 6:06 PM

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it's just sort of a guiding palette for the whole game

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 6:18 PM

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Was just gonna say it looks like Wall-E might be #EFC88B

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 7:02 PM

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wraith urchin Was just gonna say it looks like Wall-E might be #EFC88B

you know, they weren't all that original themselves

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they basically just shrunk short circuit and painted him differently

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 7:03 PM

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Are you trying to avoid looking like that? I think there's nothing wrong with it IMO

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 7:04 PM

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I think I may be unconciously inspired a bit too much by pixar and star wars robots

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and I'm trying to avoid it and do something that's mine I guess

wraith urchin Jan 30, 2025, 7:05 PM

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Ehh, I dunno just roll with whatever feels right to you

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I wouldn't worry about trying to be 100% original

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The best stuff never is

cloud rivet Jan 30, 2025, 7:06 PM

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I am trying to turn into my robot somehow

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:P

true moon Jan 30, 2025, 7:07 PM

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The color scheme is just fairly common construction equipment colors so it being similar to wall E is just sharing an inspiration

brisk chasm Jan 30, 2025, 7:14 PM

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cloud rivet you know, they weren't all that original themselves

Nr 5

astral hinge Jan 30, 2025, 11:15 PM

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cloud rivet I did live in Germany as a child for a good while

I think you did share that before and I was vaguely remembering it

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:08 AM

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I think Lengyel's index math is just the same think as mikktspace

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I'm gonna just implement that

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real quick

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it's tiny

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it does the same thing, uses faces texture coordinates, normals and vertex positions to calculate the tangents

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then I don't have to have ancient unmaintained c coode I need to quarantine

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:10 AM

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As long as it works

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But I had a really lengthy annoying battle with seams until I added mikktspace, but its up to you

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YMMV

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:13 AM

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is there a higher profile math person in the industry than Lengyel? Fletch Dunn in their 2011 book reference Lengyel, Jason Gregory reference Lengyel in the Math chapter, Essential Game math does also

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:15 AM

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I'm not saying lengyel is wrong, I'm certain he's correct

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the problem is there is more than 1 correct tangent space for a mesh

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and blender uses the mikktspace one

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:16 AM

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yes I saw that

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I haven't figured out how to get blender to open houdini exported files

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I am not sure how I am going to actually ingest assets yet

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:16 AM

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Are you using Houdini? I've always wanted to try it

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:16 AM

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I am learning it

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I wouldn't say I'm using it

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it is uh, expansive

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they have a node editor for rendering

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:17 AM

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I interviewed there once for a job, they're in toronto actually

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:17 AM

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where one of the nodes can be a gltf export

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but

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blender refuses to open it

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also refuses to open the fbx also

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:17 AM

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Blender FBX is borked lol

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:17 AM

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and I look at the gltf I think it may be like not real gltf

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:18 AM

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Like houdini is exporting borked gltf?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:18 AM

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I am too ignorant to say

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:18 AM

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Does houdini support USD?

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try USD if so

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:19 AM

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so

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houdini has this ROP concept

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:19 AM

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ROP?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:19 AM

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which is "rendering operations" ?

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and you can just imagine a massive library of these

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like

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huge

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I think maybe the people at Side Effects themselves are probably unsure of everything Houdini can do

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:21 AM

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cloud rivet I think maybe the people at Side Effects themselves are probably unsure of every...

Honestly thats most software thats large enough, I have no idea all the shit Alias (my work project) can do

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:22 AM

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wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:22 AM

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So can you export USD? or is it more complicated?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:22 AM

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everything is complicated

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https://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/nodes/out/usd.html

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yes USD is possible

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This node writes the USD generated by a LOP network to a temp file, then launches an external process (by default, husk) to render an image or image sequence from the USD.

Rendering uses the same USD interface (Hydra) as is used to render the Solaris viewport, but instead of displaying the generated pixel buffers, the renderer saves them to image files. You can choose to render using any Hydra client registered with USD.

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I don't know what any of that means

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:24 AM

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LOP? lmao

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:24 AM

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there is SOP too

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:24 AM

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no idea what that is

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:24 AM

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OP is just "operations" I think

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the actual geometry editor I think is more inuitive than blender though

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although I think blender is more geared toward that

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I'm not sure I am ignorant

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:26 AM

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Really? I find modelling is the most straightforward part of blender

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:26 AM

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https://www.sidefx.com/learn/

Learning Paths | SideFX

Learn / Learning Paths

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I think so

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I don't have a lot of blender experience either

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I don't think you can export from the free version from houdini, it won't actually warn you, it will let you go through and use the export menu and then just not actually produce a file,

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and not ever throw any error

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:28 AM

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Somehow I've managed to stick with blender for decades despite complaining about it constantly

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:28 AM

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and also

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any file created with free version of houdini cannot be opened by the paid version

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:29 AM

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blender looked like this when I started KEKW

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:29 AM

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cloud rivet any file created with free version of houdini cannot be opened by the paid versi...

Thats extremely rough

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:30 AM

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you don't find this out until you try it either ^^

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it's extremely rough

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it's basically throw away work

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:30 AM

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That would be enough to make me drop it immediately

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:30 AM

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can't be exported, or opened by anything

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other than free version

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maybe someone backwards engineered the format idk

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probably not

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it's really complex apparently

astral hinge Jan 31, 2025, 12:30 AM

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cloud rivet any file created with free version of houdini cannot be opened by the paid versi...

I can understand it being the other way, but wtf

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:31 AM

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I kind of understand from a business perspective

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:31 AM

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Probably the reason I've stuck with blender so long is that as annoying as it is sometimes, it will never pull shit like that

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:31 AM

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you spend 5 years building the thing in free version

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and then just buy the paid version on the last day

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and export it

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idk, I paid for it, I hope I figure out how to use it KEKW

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:33 AM

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How much does it cost?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:33 AM

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I bought a 2 year limited commercial/indie license for like $399 or something

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less than $100,000 annual revenue requirement

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:33 AM

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Yeah you better learn lmao

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:33 AM

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but what is nice is that I get to put it on my laptop and my pc

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you get two "node locked" licenses

astral hinge Jan 31, 2025, 12:35 AM

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epic

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:35 AM

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my current game dev revenue is about -$399 so I think I am good

astral hinge Jan 31, 2025, 12:35 AM

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reminds me of old drm'd games that only let you install them up to N times

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like Spore

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:35 AM

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didn't they have a root kit too

astral hinge Jan 31, 2025, 12:36 AM

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idk

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:38 AM

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cloud rivet less than $100,000 annual revenue requirement

what happens if you make more than that?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:38 AM

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you have to upgrade

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:38 AM

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like if you have an unexpected success

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:38 AM

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I don't know I think it's an honor system probably

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but like

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you probably generate some media if you have such success

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and they'll probably know you use them

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:39 AM

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Its definetly cheaper than what we charge for Alias https://www.autodesk.com/products/alias-products/overview

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:39 AM

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wow

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that doesn't seem like it's intended for video games

astral hinge Jan 31, 2025, 12:40 AM

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smh I can add aliasing to my project for free

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:40 AM

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cloud rivet that doesn't seem like it's intended for video games

It's mainly used by the automotive industry

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I wonder sometimes if I should dogfood for real and model game assets in it

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:42 AM

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can you get an employee discount?

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:43 AM

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I could probably just use it, but I'm already so used to blender lol

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:45 AM

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there's a common thing I hear about maya users, like Freya, how burned they were by suddenly being without it once they couldn't get a license after leaving job. I think Demon had said something about that with 3D Studio Max and losing his education license

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so I think makes sense to invest in Blender

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Freya is currently working on her own version of Maya

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it looks really cool

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:45 AM

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I invested in blender before I worked for them so I can't go back now lol

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:45 AM

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cloud rivet Freya is currently working on her own version of Maya

Half-edge?

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It looks cool

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:46 AM

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yes I think so? She makes posts on the Handmade discord about it

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probably elsewhere too

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:46 AM

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Yeah I follow her on BlueSky

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:47 AM

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weird it doesn't say who made that post

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:48 AM

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Its probably too late for me Ngl, I'm too blender pilled

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 12:48 AM

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I think this is for Unity? I forget, that could be misinfo

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she makes unity plugins historically

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 12:49 AM

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Yeah I think she is building it in unity

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not sure about that choice, but maybe she can make it work

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 1:14 AM

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I wonder if spnda would be happy to know how much I am using fastgltf::math in my packager to avoid having to include glm

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idk it works

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I miss having my own math library

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 1:46 AM

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cloud rivet I miss having my own math library

Why did you get rid of it?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 1:46 AM

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it's in zig

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 1:51 AM

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ah

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didn't wanna rewrite it in C++?

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You can have mine if you want KEKW

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 1:53 AM

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yes I do want to rewrite it in C++

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just not right now

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ok I am convinced I am doing something wrong somewhere

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and I think sponza might not be the best asset to debug it with

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I think I need a smaller asset

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hrm

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 1:59 AM

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cloud rivet ok I am convinced I am doing something wrong somewhere

try a cube tbh

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should be straightforward to verify the results just by looking at the numeric data

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 2:00 AM

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yes that is what I am doing

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can't see the tangents in here though

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 2:01 AM

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oh my, geometry nodes my nemesis KEKW

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 2:01 AM

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I wish I could see the bin file contents

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probably a way to do that idk

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I am going to printf what fastgltf is outputting

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and then look at what is in renderdoc

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using sponza atm

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well

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that sure don't look right

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huh

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wtf

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is this +y up thing in blender

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no

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that can't be it right

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I'm gonna disable that

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 2:22 AM

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cloud rivet I'm gonna disable that

Doesn't gltf mandate a certain coordinate space?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 2:22 AM

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yes

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I just wanted the numbers to be the same

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 2:23 AM

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A while back when I was setting all the tangent stuff up initially I drew tiny debug lines on each vertex

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 2:24 AM

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is that more helpful than just using the line primitive?

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ok that made the numbers match but didn't fix the tangents

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this is useful though

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I am going to look at all the vertices by index and see if the go wrong at some point

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it seems to differ

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hrm

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I think this is a primitive vs just vertices thing

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I should trust fastgltf

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and compare fastgltf output to renderdoc

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 2:39 AM

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cloud rivet is that more helpful than just using the line primitive?

Like I drew red, green & blue lines at each vertex for the tangent normal & binormal

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 2:39 AM

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oh

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on a smaller model?

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 2:40 AM

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I did it on a bigger model too but it was slow AF KEKW

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 2:40 AM

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I git cloned the khoronos model repo

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I should find a good model there to do this with

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it's the one with sponza in it

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but there's a ton more

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 2:41 AM

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Avocado.gltf

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 2:41 AM

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I'm just gonna quickly check this stuff in renderdoc then start working with simpler model tangents

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I wanted to be working on game play agonyfrog but something is really not right

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 2:42 AM

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I know the feeling froge_sad

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:07 AM

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top is renderdoc export

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bottom is what I store in my format

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it's position, normal, tangent, color, texture coordinates

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they all match

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there's some floating point precision lost in renderdoc for normals

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(-0.7280855, -0.6854864, 9.9998004e-05) in my asset compared to -0.72809, -0.68549, 0.0001, in renderdoc

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idk why that it is

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I think that's renderdoc

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im going to check nsight

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same in nsight as it is in renderdoc

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that's how it gets exported in csv so I don't think this is a view thing

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:18 AM

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This is the data in the vertex buffer?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:19 AM

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yeah

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that's the only difference I see

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is the normal precision

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would that explain that seam?

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:/

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wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:20 AM

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No I even degrade my normal precision with octahedral encoding

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:20 AM

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idk

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:20 AM

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Is all this stuff in the repo?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:20 AM

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yes

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:21 AM

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If you haven't figured it out by tommorow around 5pm EST I can take a look

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:21 AM

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my thing is a burden to get to build

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so I don't recommend that

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:21 AM

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It's just msvc no?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:21 AM

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I haven't done the gitsubmodule thing yet

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:21 AM

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Ah

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:21 AM

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and even then it would take me to write a script

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to do all the stuff it takes to build the thing

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I will try the avacado

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:24 AM

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I built deccers thing, its cool to make things buildable by other people

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I say as I maintain my closed source cluster fuck of an engine KEKW

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:27 AM

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wraith urchin I say as I maintain my closed source cluster fuck of an engine <:KEKW:6668493214...

do you know what the green images are? I don't know what they are

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in the gltf

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I am not using those

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:28 AM

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In sponza?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:28 AM

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sponza has them too

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"metallicRoughnessTexture":{
"index":2
}

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that's it

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:29 AM

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Oh that's basically roughness = 1.0

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Because gltf is ARM

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Ambient, Roughness, Metallic

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So green is the roughness channel

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And since the blue channel is 0.0 that means it's entirely non metallic

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:33 AM

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ah thank you

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:34 AM

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A metallic avocado might not be desirable KEKW

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:35 AM

#

#

idk

#

looks correct to me

#

#

I kind of am over it

#

@wraith urchin would you be willing to share your sponza gltf 🙏

#

actually

#

hrmm

#

it's ok

#

converting things to ktx2 is manual right now

#

and I don't want to do it again

#

it's a lot of images to convert

#

I'm going to wrok on gamnedev

#

I'm just not having fun with this and I don't see any evidence that I am doing anything incorrect right now I don't know

#

I think blender is giving me garbage tangents tbh

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:44 AM

#

cloud rivet <@430230566814744577> would you be willing to share your sponza gltf 🙏

I'm not home right now but I can share it tommorow

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:44 AM

#

how do you export your gltf?

#

just with file export?

#

or do you "bake"

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:45 AM

#

I don't tick anything regarding tangents just export->gltf

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:45 AM

#

ok

dry apex Jan 31, 2025, 3:45 AM

#

cloud rivet I think blender is giving me garbage tangents tbh

have you tried triangulating before exporting?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:45 AM

#

so you just have mikktspace do it

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:45 AM

#

I rely on mikktspace to generate tangents

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:45 AM

#

dry apex have you tried triangulating before exporting?

I don't know what that is

dry apex Jan 31, 2025, 3:46 AM

#

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/modifiers/generate/triangulate.html

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:46 AM

#

cloud rivet I don't know what that is

Add a triangulation modifier to the model

dry apex Jan 31, 2025, 3:46 AM

#

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/face/triangulate_faces.html

#

i don't remember which one

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:46 AM

#

It's important if you are baking normals

#

But it shouldn't fuck things up this bad

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:47 AM

#

#

idk what to do

#

hrm

#

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/modifiers/generate/triangulate.html

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:48 AM

#

cloud rivet idk what to do

Don't worry about that yet. I'm 99% sure triangulation wouldn't cause this

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:49 AM

#

I just should do the mikktspace thing

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 3:49 AM

#

Probably lol

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 3:49 AM

#

I wrote all the code and then deleted it because it wouldn't build

#

I didn't save it

#

it wasn't my code that wouldn't build it was all the c

#

I am going to figure out how to export stuff out of houdini so I can run it in my application, thanks for all your help

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 4:06 AM

#

Any time between 10am & 1am EST KEKW

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 4:08 AM

#

oh you can export obj from the free version

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 4:13 AM

#

Too bad obj sucks ass

#

Sometimes it's all you need though

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 4:27 AM

#

yeah

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 4:29 AM

#

wraith urchin Sometimes it's all you need though

Indeed it is :^)

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 4:37 AM

#

#

yay

#

no normals or color or anything

#

but at least I have geometry

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 4:45 AM

#

What format did you export?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 5:31 AM

#

wraith urchin What format did you export?

gltf2, figured it out

#

#

figured out normals

#

basically houdini is a node editor

#

initially I was like dragging things into the scene UI and nothing would show, but it's because I wasn't doing anything with the node editor

#

normals aren't added automatically

#

I think I can do geometry in blender and import it into houdini and then export from houdini after I do things with the geometry in houdini

#

I think maybe blender -> marmoset -> houdini -> app?

#

hrm

#

I hard coded a bunch of assumptions into my gltf parser/material code

#

that I have to fix

#

so goal is to have a floor

#

and then a box

#

and some other boxes

#

with some materials and lighting

#

and then I add click to move behavior

#

that's the first goal

#

I think after it's going to be select objects in the scene with the mouse

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 5:39 AM

#

cloud rivet I think maybe blender -> marmoset -> houdini -> app?

I try to stay in one tool as long as possible, ideally that tool is my engine

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 5:39 AM

#

idk I'm just learning

#

maybe it will just be houdini and marmoset

#

I don't know how I am going to do level editing

astral hinge Jan 31, 2025, 5:41 AM

#

https://tenor.com/view/yeojinburger-marmoset-pygmy-marmoset-cute-monkey-gif-4573297565511333170

Tenor

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:12 AM

#

houdini has mikktspace

#

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 9:02 AM

#

trying to get the textures and normals rendering 😅

#

these are cool

#

#

ohh I got tangenbts

#

#

ok I got tangents

#

#

but I don't have materials

#

I need to figure out tomorrow how to actually add a material with a texture and then I think I am cooking

#

the texture doesn't make it into the gltf without a material which makes sense

#

it's 1:30 am and I gotta go to bed now

#

I'm gonna try mikktspace to fix sponza tomorrow

#

I'm not gonna give up on sponza

#

I just can only do so much of that at a time

#

I wonder if all this houdini spam is OT on this server

silver slate Jan 31, 2025, 11:39 AM

#

wraith urchin blender looked like this when I started <:KEKW:666849321462792234>

My beloved pre-Blender 2.5 interface.

dry apex Jan 31, 2025, 2:42 PM

#

i used blender when the splash screen was iron-cop or something

#

2.78

#

wow there's 2 years gap between 2.78 and 2.80

#

makes sense. so many new things added/changed in that version

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 4:50 PM

#

marmoset also uses mikkt

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 5:03 PM

#

gltf too

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 5:20 PM

#

This is kinda the point of Mikktspace is that everyones uses it

#

except apparently Maya?

#

Gonna doublecheck that might be misinfo

#

Never mind, that is misinfo, Maya has mikktspace support since at least 2024

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 5:50 PM

#

yeah

#

I should add mikktspace

silver slate Jan 31, 2025, 6:14 PM

#

dry apex i used blender when the splash screen was iron-cop or something

The first time I discovered Blender it was version 2.34 but I didn't know how to use it and I was like 10-11 years old or something so my brain was very stinky. The first one I started learning with was 2.37a.

#

I keep one on my harddrive for the vibes. 😂

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 6:34 PM

#

I started on 2.49 when I was in highschool, 2.5 felt like such a huge upgrade. When 2.8 came out I actually didn't like it at first KEKW

#

Eventually I got used to it though

silver slate Jan 31, 2025, 6:36 PM

#

wraith urchin I started on 2.49 when I was in highschool, 2.5 felt like such a huge upgrade. W...

2.8 a.k.a. the great button swap

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 6:36 PM

#

Yup

silver slate Jan 31, 2025, 6:36 PM

#

Some of my friends still haven't changed their key bindings to the post 2.79 ones 😂

#

I keep telling them to get it over with and they're just like "I'm scared" :')

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 6:37 PM

#

Once you get used to something it becomes painful to change

silver slate Jan 31, 2025, 6:38 PM

#

Changing habits is always a painful challenge, just like learning something new.
Because once you've learned the new thing, you've got to keep doing it for it to start feeling ok.

#

I'm still very much fighting myself with a lot of things that I've technically done before, but just not enough for it to stop making me self-conscious.

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 7:04 PM

#

i also remember playing with blender back then in the late 90s probably, but never understood how to use it, never used it

#

until 2013 ish, i still dont know how to use it really

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 7:04 PM

#

What are the "post 2.79" keybinds, the blender keybinds seem about the same as always to me

astral hinge Jan 31, 2025, 7:08 PM

#

Doesn't blender let you choose which set of bindings to use on startup

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 7:17 PM

#

ja

#

and you can change it too later, like vs or other IDEs

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

It's just which mouse button to use isn't it

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 7:31 PM

#

and searchbox thingy

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 7:33 PM

#

Ah yeah

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 7:53 PM

#

if any of the other apps like Maya, 3D Studio Max, etc were free would you still use blender?

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

cloud rivet if any of the other apps like Maya, 3D Studio Max, etc were free would you still...

Yes, I tried to learn Maya on my work computer, I'm too locked into blender at this point

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

ah I don't know anything about anything so I am not locked in

#

I don't mind paying for software

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 7:56 PM

#

I am apparently the one person who figured out how to bake in blender KEKW

#

I can't give that up

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 7:59 PM

#

I might use Max for some things over Blender

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:00 PM

#

maya is not cheap

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:00 PM

#

No they're not

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:01 PM

#

cloud rivet if any of the other apps like Maya, 3D Studio Max, etc were free would you still...

there's a difference between free and free*

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:01 PM

#

$2k a year thinkeyes

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:01 PM

#

there's free and open source like blender and then there's free but we may change the license any time or maybe there's royalties

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:02 PM

#

Max needs an indie license

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:02 PM

#

If you are a pro modeler it makes sense

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:02 PM

#

I just never have been one to feel strongly about open source, I am grateful for all the open source projects that I depend on, I do feel strongly about being grateful but I believe in IP, but rule 8 etc

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:02 PM

#

yeah but like if you're ultra set on becoming a pro artist and want to use the tools pro use you'll pirate anyway, you're a kid no one cares

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:02 PM

#

Studios are not paying 2K a year per seat though, they have a different license

#

2k Is for an individual license

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:03 PM

#

How many actually use it though

#

What's the target audience

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:03 PM

#

For Maya?

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:03 PM

#

Someone must make a lot of money with the tool to charge that

#

Max

#

But either really

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

Oh I don't know all that much about Max, but Maya is extremely popular in Games & Animation

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

max is still ugly af isnt it

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

Idk I never found it so

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

hushed creek yeah but like if you're ultra set on becoming a pro artist and want to use the t...

least of all the guys making the software, most importantly

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

Looks like Maya is more for animation and max has roots in archvis but they are otherwise very similar at this point

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

a kid using a pirated ver of your thing to learn is a future professional paying a license

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

I never used Maya

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

true moon Idk I never found it so

Says man who thinks Arma 1 is peak graphics KEKW

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:06 PM

#

in any case now that people are able to win film awards using blender I think the tool is no longer a valid excuse for most people XD

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:06 PM

#

max and maya cost the same

#

per year

#

$1945

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:07 PM

#

As much as I hate subscription stuff, the "tokens" thing is an interesting concept

#

Basically pay by the hour sort of

#

Or by the day at least

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:07 PM

#

I think the main reason why companies pay for Maya is because they can get support from us

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:07 PM

#

So if you don't use it much you can pay very little

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:07 PM

#

what is the difference between maya and max?

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:08 PM

#

I mean they're legitimately good tools, to a company with money they're a worthwhile purchase

#

Just not for a hobbyist

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:08 PM

#

I don't know about maya specifically but on Alias we get feature requests directly from our customers

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:08 PM

#

#

thesearethesamepicture.png

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:09 PM

#

Blender on the other hand doesn't have any obligation to do things that companies ask for

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:09 PM

#

true moon Looks like Maya is more for animation and max has roots in archvis but they are ...

.

#

I learned Max because as a kid I had some Torque game engine book and that's what they used

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:09 PM

#

I can explain why they both exist

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:10 PM

#

wraith urchin Blender on the other hand doesn't have any obligation to do things that companie...

3D max has animation in the headline and maya doesn't

#

hrm

#

all the game devs I follow only talk about maya I never hear anyone really talking about max

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:10 PM

#

Maya was not originally an autodesk product, it was acquired with the company Alias-Wavefront, which became autodesk toronto

#

Maya had (alot of) existing customers so they kept it around

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:11 PM

#

fully supported and with a future or maintenance mode

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:11 PM

#

With a future

#

it was in like 2005, a long time before I joined

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:12 PM

#

oh

#

20 years ago

#

that's really expensive

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

Well arguably the reason Alias was acquired was for Maya

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

I'm still wondering what the target market for the individual licenses is

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

true moon I'm still wondering what the target market for the individual licenses is

Freelance modelers I think

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

I'm trying to think of a monetization scheme that would make it cheaper for people to screw around in while still charging people who make a living off of it more

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

that's annual revenue

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

But I can't think of anything better than the pay per use scheme that "tokens" system is for

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

that's how houdini works

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

Yeah that's true

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

I got an indie license that costs $390 for two years

#

I'd pay that for maya

#

you have to make less than $100K per year

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

In some cases that annual revenue might be hard to identify

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

true moon I'm still wondering what the target market for the individual licenses is

studios outsource 3D work too hence freelancers

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

I think houdini cares a lot about how much you make, their licensing software is expansive

#

they probably have a whole department regarding this

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:17 PM

#

But yeah I'd consider paying up to $500 annually for max probably if it's as good as I remember

#

2k is insane though

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:17 PM

#

it is giving me pause for sure

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:17 PM

#

Jake we're counting on you to fix this

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:17 PM

#

I do not work on Maya, much less do I have anything to do with pricing

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

so maya has a free trial

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

We believe in you

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

maybe I trial it

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

Btw the really insane thing is that Max cost $2k/yr like 15 years ago too

#

So if anything the price is more reasonable now

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

I'm not buidling complex models yet

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

jake is only working on the motorized desks

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

I have to ask permission to spend for that

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

Honestly if you're just starting then Blender and Houdini are more than enough

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

yeah probably

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:20 PM

#

You need to learn the modeling workflow and thought process before the tools really matter much

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:20 PM

#

well

#

maya might be better for beginners

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:20 PM

#

It takes a long time to get good at 3D modeling

#

Blender is probably the best for beginners

#

Because it has infinite educational content out there

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:20 PM

#

how can you claim that having not used maya

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:20 PM

#

I've used max and they're basically the same

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:21 PM

#

it's just ridiculous to even consider paying that tbh

#

I will just use blender

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:22 PM

#

Maya is a bargain compared to Alias...

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 8:23 PM

#

I should give the free trial a go though

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:23 PM

#

Maya?

#

Yeah its worth giving it a shot

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:24 PM

#

wraith urchin Maya is a bargain compared to Alias...

🙃

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:24 PM

#

The thing is blender is the best all-in-one solution

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:24 PM

#

hushed creek 🙃

My glorious code is worth every penny

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:25 PM

#

that's about how much I have left to pay for my apartment lol

true moon Jan 31, 2025, 8:25 PM

#

Modeling, rigging, animating, great built in renderer, video editor, render postprocessing, geometry nodes, 2D animation, etc. and it's free

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:25 PM

#

I'm hoping to gather that much money in a year and half XD

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:25 PM

#

Easy to forget the video editor

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:26 PM

#

all blender needs is a few things made with it to make it really big

#

(and for some big names to start using it)

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:27 PM

#

It is really big lol

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:27 PM

#

no I meant products to make it big

#

like, an animated star wars series done entirely in blender

#

or an original series that becomes huge

#

when it comes to the output it's still mostly (just?) indies to my knowledge

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:29 PM

#

hushed creek when it comes to the output it's still mostly (just?) indies to my knowledge

There are 100% AAAs using blender

#

My friend has worked as a modeler for Ubisoft, 2K & EA and has used blender at all 3

#

Of course there are also people there using Maya

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:31 PM

#

good to know

#

I had no idea it was already used

#

I was thinking about big name (productions) benefiting because it would increase adoption for everyone else solely because of the "if they could do it we can too"

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 8:32 PM

#

I went to the blender meetup at SIGGRAPH a while back and the room was absolutely full, people there from Netflix, Disney etc, all the big names

#

We've probably derailed Bjorn's thread enough lmao

#

@cloud rivet How comes the tangents?

hushed creek Jan 31, 2025, 8:35 PM

#

wraith urchin We've probably derailed Bjorn's thread enough lmao

we went on a tangent

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 9:01 PM

#

I am at work so can’t look at it rn

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:27 PM

#

wraith urchin I built deccers thing, its cool to make things buildable by other people

what thing? 😄

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:27 PM

#

OpenSpace lol

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:28 PM

#

ah 🙂

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:28 PM

#

I noticed HowToScript got nuked

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:28 PM

#

ah also, i just made HowToScript private

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:28 PM

#

I was looking for the mikktspace thing

#

to show bjorn

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:28 PM

#

i can dig it up

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:28 PM

#

nvidia had a good example

#

so I am good thanks though

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:28 PM

#

or add you two

#

ah

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:28 PM

#

it's pretty easy to use

#

it's just badly written C with tons of uninitialized variables and warnings

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:30 PM

#

It's oldschool for sure lol

#

but that is mainly for portability reasons I think

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:31 PM

#

https://gist.github.com/deccer/c5a751d80db2b238a30e6cb580ff858d

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:31 PM

#

    int iF, iI;
    SVec3 res; float pos[3];
    IndexToData(&iF, &iI, index);

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:31 PM

#

Classic C code

#

I wonder if this compiles in C89

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:32 PM

#

it looks like c89

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:32 PM

#

how is this building in your project?

#

I think these weren't even warnings, some of those were just straight up build errors

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:33 PM

#

Builds just fine for me

#

do you have warnings as errors?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:33 PM

#

yes

#

I am saying some of these were not warnings

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:33 PM

#

i dont think i have warnings as errors enabled, i should do that actually

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:33 PM

#

well you'll have remove mikktspace if you do

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:34 PM

#

: )

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:34 PM

#

I'm going to try static linking it

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:34 PM

#

thats what i do too

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:34 PM

#

I am going to wrap it with my own code

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:34 PM

#

i put the cmake part in the jist too

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:34 PM

#

because the header had warnings too

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:34 PM

#

I just added the files to my project they build just fine

#

what are the errors you get?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:35 PM

#

honestly, I can't tell because if I have one error anywhere half my code errors

#

but it looked like a lot

#

I started trying to fix them at like 2 am

#

and just kept finding more

#

and I gave up

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:36 PM

#

You might have some weird flags set?

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:36 PM

#

do you have any warnings when you build

#

my flag is just error on warnings and warnings level 4

#

that's it

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:37 PM

#

I get 2

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:37 PM

#

and it's configured via the msbuild properties ui

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:37 PM

#

1>MikkTSpace\mikktspace.c(1205,21): warning : variable 'iUniqueTspaces' set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]```

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:37 PM

#

well

#

I shared some code

#

that is clearly a warning

#

so I think maybe you kind of got some really relaxed settings

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:39 PM

#

I have warning Level4

#

Oh this is actually with clang, 1 sec

#

lemme see what msvc says

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:40 PM

#

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/code-quality/c6001?view=msvc-170

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:40 PM

#

Ok 9 warnings from MSVC

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:41 PM

#

what are they?

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:42 PM

#

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:42 PM

#

yeah

#

ok so they are just warnings

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:43 PM

#

those can be somehow ignored when you cmake them properly with SYSTEM rather than PRIVATE/PUBLIC or something like that, i never looked properly into it yet

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:43 PM

#

if you add a #pragma warning(disable: 4456) does that one go away?

#

it didn't for me

#

that works for all the warnings I get from fastgltf

#

and tracy

#

but it didn't in this case

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:44 PM

#

with the pragma only this one is left mikktspace.c(922,3): warning C4201: nonstandard extension used: nameless struct/union

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:44 PM

#

where did you put the pragma

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:44 PM

#

at the top of the file

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:44 PM

#

ok but you only want to turn it off for mikktspace

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:44 PM

#

yeah so add it to the top of mikktspace.c

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:45 PM

#

is that what you did?

#

I did that

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:45 PM

#

just now yeah

#

but I normally build without that

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:45 PM

#

and the errors went away?

#

warnings*

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:45 PM

#

yeah the warnings went away

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:45 PM

#

idk that didn't work for me

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:46 PM

#

but I don't understand where errors would be coming from

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:46 PM

#

warnings as errors

#

any warning fails the build

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:46 PM

#

Ah so you do have that

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:46 PM

#

I said so yeah

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:46 PM

#

I have that only enabled for certain warnings

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:47 PM

#

are you using cmake?

#

I don't know

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:47 PM

#

no msbuild

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:47 PM

#

this did not work for me, it did not

#

I'll try again fine

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:48 PM

#

cloud rivet Jan 31, 2025, 11:48 PM

#

how many warnings does your project build have?

#

a lot?

#

I find the level 4 warnings to be really helpful

#

and also reasonable

#

all warnings is unreasonable

brisk chasm Jan 31, 2025, 11:50 PM

#

can you do this too

#pragma push warn #1337
#include <mikktspace.h>
#pragma pop

#

so that you dont have to modify the files you pull with cmake?

wraith urchin Jan 31, 2025, 11:53 PM

#

cloud rivet a lot?

385

#

lmao now you got me fixing warnings

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 12:07 AM

#

I think visual studio just gaslights me to torment me personally

#

If I turn on all warnings it crashes visual studio on the vulkan sdk

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 12:14 AM

#

I've never worked on a C++ codebase that has no warnings

#

I also get warnings in SDL & Bullet

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 12:52 AM

#

I was able to wrap SDL with pragma around the headers

#

I have no warnings

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 1:25 AM

#

I did a mask normal map thing in Marmoset, I'm going to see if I can load that in Rosy

#

in houdini

#

hrm houdini doesn't add a sampler to the gltf

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 2:09 AM

#

#

houdini doesn't export the image names I have to add like a script for it to do that

#

#

my lighting just seems broken too for some reason

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 2:33 AM

#

this is the opposite of correct

#

I think this confirms my lighting is broken somehow

#

although

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:09 AM

#

alright I'll add mikktspace

#

#

all I did was add the header KEKW

#

well I also added the files to the project

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 3:20 AM

#

nice -werror brah

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:24 AM

#

in that screenshot there was a syntax error where I had some left over code experiment, but I removed it and it's the same minus that error

#

I do not know how jake got it to build

#

his stuff is set up differently

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 3:25 AM

#

well what you're seeing are just warnings

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:25 AM

#

I know that

#

but he didn't have all these warnings

#

and

#

he was able to turn them off with a pragma

#

this is all the result of just adding the mikktspace files

#

#1323084490997895198 message

#

these are not the same

#

progress

#

I swear when I added that pragma last time it didn't fix anything

#

I did just restart visual studio though

#

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/ide/lnt-uninitialized-local?view=msvc-170#how-to-fix-the-issue

lnt-uninitialized-local

Reference for Visual Studio C++ IntelliSense Linter check lnt-uninitialized-local.

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 3:32 AM

#

where did you put the pragma

#

it needs to apply to the entirety of mikktspace.c

#

you can't just put it around the header unless all the source code is in there

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:35 AM

#

at the top of the file

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 3:35 AM

#

which file

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:35 AM

#

both

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 3:35 AM

#

mikktspace.c?

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:35 AM

#

the header and the c file

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 3:35 AM

#

hmm

#

show

#

also what compiler are you using

#

the pragma to disable warnings is different on different compilers

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:35 AM

#

well

#

that fixed it for that warning

#

the pragma worked this time is what I am saying

#

I'm saying I swear it didn't work for me last time

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 3:36 AM

#

@cloud rivet can you try changing your language standard to C++20? I think you said you were using latest

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:36 AM

#

I don't know what pragma to use for init-uninitialized-local

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 3:37 AM

#

Sometimes MSVC enables different warnings depending on the language version

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:37 AM

#

wraith urchin <@116331284749484040> can you try changing your language standard to C++20? I th...

that would fail the build I think as I use new things

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 3:37 AM

#

set it just for mikktspace.c

#

that is C89 anyways lol

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:38 AM

#

ohh

#

I mean if I can set this per file then I can just disable the warnings like this

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 3:38 AM

#

yeah you can set it per file

#

just right click the file in solution explorer and go to properties

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:42 AM

#

I had no idea I could do that facepalm

#

#

I still have these though

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 3:44 AM

#

are you in debug rn?

#

make sure you set it for all configurations

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 3:45 AM

#

cloud rivet

maybe that is coming from an extension?

#

resharper mayhap

#

it doesn't have a standard warning code

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 3:46 AM

#

cloud rivet I had no idea I could do that <:facepalm:1185236880300703824>

I notice it doesn't say Active for debug here

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:46 AM

#

yes I just fixed it for all configurations

+    <ClCompile Include="..\libs\mikktspace.c">
+      <LanguageStandard Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Debug|x64'">Default</LanguageStandard>
+      <LanguageStandard_C Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Debug|x64'">Default</LanguageStandard_C>
+      <WarningLevel Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Debug|x64'">TurnOffAllWarnings</WarningLevel>
+      <TreatWarningAsError Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Debug|x64'">false</TreatWarningAsError>
+      <WarningLevel Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Renderdoc|x64'">TurnOffAllWarnings</WarningLevel>
+      <TreatWarningAsError Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Renderdoc|x64'">false</TreatWarningAsError>
+      <LanguageStandard Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Renderdoc|x64'">Default</LanguageStandard>
+      <LanguageStandard_C Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Renderdoc|x64'">Default</LanguageStandard_C>
+      <WarningLevel Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Release|x64'">TurnOffAllWarnings</WarningLevel>
+    </ClCompile>

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 3:47 AM

#

wraith urchin I notice it doesn't say Active for debug here

classic vs solution moment

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:48 AM

#

cool per file level options

#

this is esoteric stuff

#

ok

#

setting to other language versions

#

setting it for all release types

#

why you like C++

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 3:49 AM

#

Why you use C++? froge_love

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:50 AM

#

why does one release config fail a different one thinkeyes

#

because it's what everyone else uses frogsippy

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 3:50 AM

#

Everyone uses it because its good smart

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 3:53 AM

#

astral hinge resharper mayhap

I am not sure, I don't really know everything resharper changes

#

that could explain some things I guess

#

alright I will rewrite all that code I had previously

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 3:58 AM

#

cloud rivet I am not sure, I don't really know everything resharper changes

Me neither, but you can look froge_yeehaw

dry apex Feb 1, 2025, 4:01 AM

#

brisk chasm i also remember playing with blender back then in the late 90s probably, but nev...

how old are you deccer? like 50?

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 5:10 AM

#

@wraith urchin do you run mikktspace per gltf primitive or per mesh?

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 5:11 AM

#

Per mesh

#

Note that mikktspace returns the tangent spaces in an unindexed form. Do NOT try to average these over an existing index list. It will NOT work correctly. If you need the tangent spaces to be indexed you can use a welder to create a new index list. If you do not have such an implementation you can get a free one here:
don't forget this bit btw

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 5:15 AM

#

what is a welder

#

oh

#

it points to something

#

in an unindexed form

#

of course they're indexed

#

what

#

@wraith urchin so you use weldmesh also?

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 5:17 AM

#

no I use meshoptimizer

#

https://meshoptimizer.org/

meshoptimizer

🐇 meshoptimizer

Mesh optimization library that makes meshes smaller and faster to render

#

Does alot more than just welding

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 5:18 AM

#

I just want seams to go away

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 5:19 AM

#

Thats what we all want lol

#

You don't have to do all mesh optimization steps

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 5:25 AM

#

cloud rivet of course they're indexed

When you load the gltf does it come indexed already?

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 5:25 AM

#

yes

#

that's what I was comparing the other day

#

the tangents exported from blender with what was in renderdoc

#

they were identical

#

all 200k+

dry apex Feb 1, 2025, 5:27 AM

#

wraith urchin https://meshoptimizer.org/

i use it as well

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 8:59 AM

#

I found houdini has a remesh node

#

so I am sending geometry through a tangent node that computes mikkitspace and then pushes them through remesh

#

#

interesting

#

I wonder if I can just drop sponza in this

#

I don't care

#

it's now february

#

I'm going to work on my game

#

this program is so interesting, it feels off topic for this server tbh

#

apparently 10 iterations is crimes against geometry

#

poor cube frogstare

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 9:40 AM

#

dry apex how old are you deccer? like 50?

41

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:38 AM

#

I got a python script to fix the gltf houdini outputs to add names for images

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:38 AM

#

shame that you need scripting to fix something which should just work out of the box : (

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:39 AM

#

https://github.com/btipling/rosy_scripts/blob/main/gltf_post_render.py

#

yeah idk, it's fun to script it though, super easy

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:39 AM

#

i guess gltf is something nobody needed/wanted, just like collada

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:39 AM

#

I like gltf :/

#

I don't like collada

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:39 AM

#

its pretty much gltf just in xml

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:40 AM

#

I don't like xml

#

hrm

#

I can extend this script to move all the gltf assets to Rosy and then run my asset importer

#

I also currently have to manually generate the ktx2 files 😅

#

man

#

does houdini have a ktx2 node :o

#

no

#

but I can run ktx tools from the cli I guess

#

idk man houdini is making my life so much easier, I manually converted all the sponza jpgs to ktx2

#

I thought it was like a modeling app

#

but really it's like

#

an asset pipeline manager?

#

like I can introspect into all aspects of anything, images, textures, geometry vertices and nodes, write scripts for that stuff

#

with a node editor

#

idk

#

if I am too OT for this server please let me know 😅

#

feels like cheating tbh

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 10:45 AM

#

banned for being productive

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:45 AM

#

fuck

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:45 AM

#

you need to pay attention to ktx tools

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 10:46 AM

#

I used gltfpack (from meshopt) and libktx to handle all my ktxisms

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:46 AM

#

if you want ktx2 you need to pass the right parameter to ktxcreate or what it was called

#

yeah

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:46 AM

#

yeah I wrote notes for it when I did it previously

#

ktx create --format R8G8B8A8_SRGB --generate-mipmap --mipmap-filter box --encode uastc --uastc-quality 0 --zstd 5 --cubemap .\xp.png .\xn.png .\yp.png .\yn.png .\zp.png .\zn.png skybox.ktx2

#

is when I made my skybox

#

but

#

I don't want SRGB

#

:<

#

oh maybe houdini can change colorspace

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

toktx --t2 ...

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

wow

#

you know ktx

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:47 AM

#

ah i think ktx itself when it sees ktx2 file extension it might do the right thing

#

i already forgot and its just a month ago or so, around xmas when i fiddled with that shit

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:48 AM

#

ktx is awesome

#

it feels like a dead project

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:48 AM

#

what doesnt, coming from john K

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:49 AM

#

I don't really get the feeling that dds is really maintained all that well either

#

AAA studios all have their own shit

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:49 AM

#

its probably feature complete

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:50 AM

#

well it works and I like it

#

I wish it supported vma better

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:50 AM

#

yeah thats what counts, it works

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:50 AM

#

but I guess I don't care if it does, since it just works

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:50 AM

#

but dds is also just a blob and a size of blob, isnt that all you need for vma too?

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:50 AM

#

vma does magical stuff with memory

#

it will pool memory based on usage and I doubt ktx does any of that

#

reuse it and stuff

#

it's a crime ktx doesn't support nicely

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 10:51 AM

#

ah this thing also doesnt use vma, mayhaps you dont need to use it for that then https://github.com/Sixshaman/DDSTextureLoaderVk

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 10:51 AM

#

I don't see the relation between vma and ktx

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:52 AM

#

astral hinge I don't see the relation between vma and ktx

libktx ktxTexture_CreateFromNamedFile

#

ktxTexture_VkUploadEx

#

etc

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 10:53 AM

#

no need to use that stuff

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:53 AM

#

free image uploads

#

yeah I do need it

astral hinge Feb 1, 2025, 10:53 AM

#

if you have vma you don't need those

#

a function that uploads an arbitrary bcn texture is like 40 loc

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:54 AM

#

libktx gives me the image view and everything already to go

#

I can give it a cubemap

#

a whatever

#

it knows what to do with it

#

it knows the mipmaps

#

the image formats

#

the implementation isn't 40 loc it's like 1K https://github.com/KhronosGroup/KTX-Software/blob/91e61d6fa3f06eb8616fc2eba74fba7703e4fe11/lib/vkloader.c#L1451

#

more since it calls other lib functions

#

this is my image code:

{
                if (ktx_error_code_e ktx_res = ktxTexture_CreateFromNamedFile(ktx_path, KTX_TEXTURE_CREATE_NO_FLAGS, &new_ktx_img.texture); ktx_res != KTX_SUCCESS) {
                    l->error(std::format("ktx create texture failure: {}", static_cast<uint8_t>(ktx_res)));
                    return result::create_failed;
                }
                new_ktx_img.graphics_created_bitmask |= graphics_created_bit_ktx_image;
}

{
                if (ktx_error_code_e ktx_res = ktxTexture_VkUploadEx(new_ktx_img.texture, &ktx_vdi_info, &new_ktx_img.vk_texture,
                    VK_IMAGE_TILING_OPTIMAL,
                    VK_IMAGE_USAGE_SAMPLED_BIT,
                    VK_IMAGE_LAYOUT_SHADER_READ_ONLY_OPTIMAL); ktx_res != KTX_SUCCESS)
                {
                    ktx_textures.push_back(new_ktx_img);
                    l->error(std::format("ktx create vulkan texture failure: {}", static_cast<uint8_t>(ktx_res)));
                    return result::create_failed;
                }
                new_ktx_img.graphics_created_bitmask |= graphics_created_bit_ktx_texture;
}

#

idk

#

I would prefer to not use libktx

#

it just does so much

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:12 AM

#

if it works then use it

#

and can be refactored later if you want to get rid of it

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:18 AM

#

the light seems to be inverted on the x axis

#

I don't think houdini is respecting gltf's coordinate system

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:19 AM

#

can you visualleis ze normals?

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:19 AM

#

yes I can

#

I should add ui for it, but I'll update my shader

#

ah fuck

#

it's all in tangent space

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:21 AM

#

hehe

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:22 AM

#

oh I got it

#

let me actually have it shade

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:24 AM

#

your y is down

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:25 AM

#

yeah that's vk

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:25 AM

#

or im stupid, also possible

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:25 AM

#

hrm

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:25 AM

#

are you not flipping the viewport to counter the vk ism?

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:25 AM

#

well

#

no I do

#

oh

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:25 AM

#

you do the magic m[1][1] = -m[1][1] trick

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:25 AM

#

yeah I do that

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:25 AM

#

thats cursed

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:25 AM

#

otherwise I would go down when I go up

#

well no

#

I have a proper transform

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:26 AM

#

i just looked at the inspector valeurs

#

and saw your camera and light direction

#

that would conchfuse the hell out of me, me looking "downwards" but the inspector says "you look upwards"

#

https://tenor.com/view/sea-pun-shrimple-coral-of-the-story-as-shrimple-as-that-ocean-pun-gif-16868443837852072402

Tenor

#

haha there are a bunch of new ones like this 🙂

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:28 AM

#

#

that's not right

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 11:29 AM

#

its front and left and top, yeah 😛

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 11:30 AM

#

that was the tangent

#

ok normals with light

#

I guess tangents could be the same in these three directions, it's orthogonal to the normal

#

it could be pointing in the same direction for three faces why not

#

hrm

#

renderdoc time

#

I fix this and then I can do gameplay, just this

#

my light is wrong

#

it's not the normal

#

it's just the x is inverted on my light direction?

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 12:06 PM

#

its hard to tell from what angle you look at the cubicle

#

but "right" should be "bright red"

#

"left" should be "darker red"

#

your top is bright green which is correct, if you do y up

#

and the front part should be dark blue, if its -z, while the back side should be light blue

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 12:18 PM

#

my position is in the ui

#

ah it's broken in sponza too

#

it wasn't broken before

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 12:36 PM

#

yep

#

just a suddenly unexpected reverse x for some reason

brisk chasm Feb 1, 2025, 12:38 PM

#

reverse z gone wrong

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 12:39 PM

#

I guess git bisect whatever did this tomorrow but

#

idk

#

I will time box it to like 30 minutes max because I am over all this light stuff right now

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 12:57 PM

#

So next:

load a small scene I can move a character around on
Select a spot in 3D with mouse and draw a daw a circle there
Move character there

#

I am not working on anything else. Anything else becomes a GitHub issue for later

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 9:46 PM

#

wraith urchin Feb 1, 2025, 10:28 PM

#

Maya?

cloud rivet Feb 1, 2025, 10:56 PM

#

it's so much better than blender KEKW

#

oh man it's recorded a call I am in oops

#

I have no idea how to turn that off

#

someone talking about world of warcraft raids

#

#

ah

#

I'm just going to turn that off

#

I really like Maya

#

$2K though

#

per year

#

I say it's better, coming from someone who is not familiar with either

#

it has a really nice tutorial

#

for navigating and using the basic tools

#

why is R scale and E rotate? thinkeyes

#Rosy