Foundation - My adventure through Graphics Programming | Graphics Programming | Page 2

supple cliff Nov 9, 2024, 9:48 PM

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we are working on async in taskgraph atm

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 9:48 PM

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I use task graph for really long time

supple cliff Nov 9, 2024, 9:48 PM

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nice

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 9:48 PM

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supple cliff we are working on async in taskgraph atm

👀

supple cliff Nov 9, 2024, 9:49 PM

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are already added the "concurrent" use enums for it

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they also work already if you want to overlap tasks that use the same resource

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 9:49 PM

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nice. I have sw raster so compute async for it would be nice 😈

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finally

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my texture streaming is now instant

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with 32 threads it should be XD

supple cliff Nov 9, 2024, 9:59 PM

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nice

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i think i m getting the 9800x2d

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or the 16 cor variant if it has dual x3d

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:00 PM

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yeah

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nemez said it wont

supple cliff Nov 9, 2024, 10:00 PM

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im choping

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:01 PM

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I went for 7950x because it had nice discount like most things that I got

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9800x3d looking really nice but I want 32 threads with dual cache 😭

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this upgrade is insane 7700HQ -> 7950X and 1050M -> 4080 super

paper ore Nov 9, 2024, 10:02 PM

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then you should have gone for some epyc

spring sandal Nov 9, 2024, 10:03 PM

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Btw how many total additional shit did you buy before it worked?

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:03 PM

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....

paper ore Nov 9, 2024, 10:03 PM

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it felt like everything 3 times

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including stickers for the tower

spring sandal Nov 9, 2024, 10:03 PM

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Its a serious question, deccer smart

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:03 PM

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1x 7950X, 2x motherboards, 4x ram kits

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fucking a lot of money

paper ore Nov 9, 2024, 10:03 PM

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oh

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so the 2nd mobo worked already

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was not dead cpu then

summer sigil Nov 9, 2024, 10:04 PM

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I'm finally upgrading from a 2600 to a 5800x, if I can get a used 5800x cheap off ebay

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:04 PM

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nice

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:04 PM

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paper ore was not dead cpu then

it was dead cpu

paper ore Nov 9, 2024, 10:05 PM

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i got my 5950x off ebay too, with mobo cooler and 32gb ram, for 320 european pesos, but i got a 64gb kit new

paper ore Nov 9, 2024, 10:05 PM

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merry laurel it was dead cpu

ah so 2x 7950x 😛

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:05 PM

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yeah

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so in total 2x 7950x, 3x motherboard and 5x ram kits

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KEKW

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summer job money coming in clutch

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also my microphone is waiting for me

spring sandal Nov 9, 2024, 10:07 PM

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merry laurel summer job money coming in clutch

What did you do? Built custom pc's from spare parts? KEKW

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:07 PM

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spring sandal What did you do? Built custom pc's from spare parts?<:KEKW:666849321462792234>

no a lot worse

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php dev

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not really. I was doing a lot of plumbing for their mono repo

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docker, configs, databases and php + symfony bullshit

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Also I learned to use mysql to code gen sql for me KEKW

spring sandal Nov 9, 2024, 10:09 PM

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How did you get the job? Looking at local job market and its just destroyed(

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:12 PM

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first job I got through friend who is designer he worked for one company and they needed a programmer. I was hired on spot basically. second job I got because my high school has mandatory internships in 3rd and 4th grade. I got there through friend they have never done internships before. After 14 days he sat me down asked bunch of questions thats were he learnt that I am high schooler and got a job there

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They are expecting me after I graduate HS

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before that I worked from my 15 years bunch of other jobs

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I am lucky bastard

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first job my github helped a bunch

spring sandal Nov 9, 2024, 10:14 PM

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merry laurel I am lucky bastard

Yeah, just wanted to note that

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:14 PM

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I mean its not just a luck but a lot of work also

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In my high school there is day of companies(rough translation) where like 60 of them to our school and try to recruit us

spring sandal Nov 9, 2024, 10:16 PM

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My college doesnt offer internships) Hopefully uni will offer something

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:16 PM

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same here. We look for them

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They say you have to have internship and dont offer some. So you gotta look on internet

spring sandal Nov 9, 2024, 10:18 PM

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So if you dont have one they just kick you out?

merry laurel Nov 9, 2024, 10:22 PM

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nah

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but they will find you one

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 12:14 PM

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I am running bistro + sponza with 1.2k fps

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https://tenor.com/view/funny-hahaha-gif-22505124

Tenor

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threat interactive in shambles

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 12:52 PM

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got even clang to compile my project froge_love

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 8:28 PM

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mesh shader time

supple cliff Nov 10, 2024, 8:29 PM

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king time

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 8:30 PM

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and then nanite LODs rendering bleaker_kekw

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I gotta figure that one

paper ore Nov 10, 2024, 8:42 PM

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somebody whined about mesh shaders being slower than ordinary shit the other day

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 8:45 PM

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where?

supple cliff Nov 10, 2024, 8:49 PM

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paper ore somebody whined about mesh shaders being slower than ordinary shit the other day

i think you mighjt confuse them with task shaders?

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 8:50 PM

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yeah

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for sure

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If I remember correctly you moved shit from task to compute?

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I want to try implement my own work graphs

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vk spec my beloved

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https://tenor.com/view/lord-of-the-rings-frodo-alright-then-keep-your-secrets-smiling-gif-26462584

Tenor

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https://registry.khronos.org/vulkan/specs/1.3-extensions/man/html/VK_EXT_device_generated_commands.html

paper ore Nov 10, 2024, 9:07 PM

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supple cliff i think you mighjt confuse them with task shaders?

ah, yeah : >

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my b

supple cliff Nov 10, 2024, 9:14 PM

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merry laurel If I remember correctly you moved shit from task to compute?

i have both

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i can switch

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i am trying to accesss work expansion perf still

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 9:19 PM

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👀

supple cliff Nov 10, 2024, 9:20 PM

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for task shaders poo2 wins

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but its very close in compute culling

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 9:21 PM

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oh boy thats a lot of bikeshed

supple cliff Nov 10, 2024, 9:21 PM

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yea it is

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 9:57 PM

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people in academic should be banned from writing code

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because oh god that shit is unreadable

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I found some DGC code bit disappointed since you cant really execute commands in same way as work graphs its more less indirect dispatch/draw call but with more flexibility

merry laurel Nov 10, 2024, 10:37 PM

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VK_INDIRECT_COMMANDS_TOKEN_TYPE_DISPATCH_EXT 😈

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what the actual fuck

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They removed support in newer driver version? KEKW

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or is this beta

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anyway

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https://tenor.com/view/mimimimimi-cat-sleeping-snoring-cat-sleeping-cat-drooling-cat-gif-23979759

Tenor

supple cliff Nov 10, 2024, 11:02 PM

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afaik this driver is a rollback due to a securety bug

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see the vulkan version decreasing as well

merry laurel Nov 11, 2024, 5:37 AM

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Oh completely forgot about that

merry laurel Nov 11, 2024, 5:34 PM

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fastest running windows server 2008 R2 bleaker_kekw

paper ore Nov 11, 2024, 5:50 PM

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why

merry laurel Nov 11, 2024, 5:51 PM

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For school bleaker_kekw

paper ore Nov 11, 2024, 5:52 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/beyond-bleak-bleak-bleak-pim-gif-18209568399661843606

Tenor

merry laurel Nov 11, 2024, 5:52 PM

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Also I am forced to write documentation

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https://tenor.com/view/cillianmurphygun-cillianmurphy-jazmincoded-gif-3811002643797340103

Tenor

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I dont want to talk how we were forced to use MS DOS

spring sandal Nov 11, 2024, 6:06 PM

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why?are you studing archaeology?

merry laurel Nov 11, 2024, 6:39 PM

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sadly I am studying HS computer science

supple cliff Nov 11, 2024, 6:50 PM

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horse science

merry laurel Nov 11, 2024, 6:50 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/drake-drizzy-drizzy-drake-champagnepapi-toronto-gif-6493416946077113912

Tenor

merry laurel Nov 13, 2024, 4:07 PM

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FOR THE EMPEROR

merry laurel Nov 14, 2024, 8:29 PM

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why 80% of time is spent in resolve vis buffer shader bleakekw

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Found the coulprit stupid atomic ops

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const f32 mip_map = log2(max(length(uv_grad.ddx * 65536u), length(uv_grad.ddy * 65536u)));
const u32 wave_mask = WaveActiveBitOr(65536u >> u32(max(0, mip_map)));
if(WaveIsFirstLane()) {
    InterlockedOr(push.uses.u_readback_material[mesh.material_index], wave_mask);
}

summer sigil Nov 14, 2024, 8:35 PM

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What's with the wave ops?

merry laurel Nov 14, 2024, 8:36 PM

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this is the code snippet causing this bad perf

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from 2.2 ms -> 0.6 ms KEKW

merry laurel Nov 14, 2024, 8:36 PM

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summer sigil What's with the wave ops?

what do you mean exactly?

summer sigil Nov 14, 2024, 8:37 PM

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What is this pass doing?

merry laurel Nov 14, 2024, 8:37 PM

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its resolving vis buffer to color image + writes which texture size is needed for material

summer sigil Nov 14, 2024, 8:38 PM

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Oh, is that for your texture streaming?

merry laurel Nov 14, 2024, 8:38 PM

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yep

summer sigil Nov 14, 2024, 8:38 PM

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Makes sense now

merry laurel Nov 14, 2024, 8:39 PM

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the WaveIsFirstLane should reduce to amount of atomics to just one per subgroup if I am correct

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I think it could be also cause by that buffer being host mapped so I can do readback

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I will fix that and see if it improves

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This weekend I want to add mesh streaming

merry laurel Nov 15, 2024, 2:55 PM

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fuuuuuuuck

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merry laurel Nov 15, 2024, 3:12 PM

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forking daxa for debug info

merry laurel Nov 15, 2024, 4:23 PM

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nsight is just stupid froge_sad

supple cliff Nov 15, 2024, 5:12 PM

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slang debug info doesnt work

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add -g2 to the cmd line

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i have it in a commite but didnt submit

merry laurel Nov 15, 2024, 5:20 PM

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supple cliff i have it in a commite but didnt submit

I added g2 and still not worky

supple cliff Nov 15, 2024, 5:52 PM

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yea nsight has 0 slang support

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makes no sense cause it doesnt need anyrhing

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it should just eat it but doesnt

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g2 makes it work in aftermath crashes tho lmao

merry laurel Nov 15, 2024, 5:55 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/kekw-kewkwait-issou-gif-21148982

Tenor

merry laurel Nov 15, 2024, 6:16 PM

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terrible readback performace has been fixed 2.6-2.2ms -> 0.4-0.6ms

merry laurel Nov 17, 2024, 12:09 AM

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I hate culling

pale vortex Nov 17, 2024, 12:22 AM

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Why tho

merry laurel Nov 17, 2024, 12:29 AM

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Rn I am adding culling for meshes and its broken

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but works fine for meshlets

merry laurel Nov 17, 2024, 12:45 AM

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I just fixed it. It was so stupid

merry laurel Nov 17, 2024, 2:53 PM

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Mesh streaming is in

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I perform frustum + hiz culling which is quite strict and I am evicting meshes after 255 frames

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In whole scene there is over 1600 meshes

paper ore Nov 17, 2024, 2:57 PM

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so

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with a 240hz monitor

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when i do a 360 😄

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i see all sorts of plopping and loading

merry laurel Nov 17, 2024, 2:58 PM

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this would be fixed with faster decompression and less strict frustum culling and maybe getting rid of hiz culling

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also distance based culling

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so some meshes around camera would be kept

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For example you dont see texture pop in for texture streaming because their is much less of them and I still keep 16x16 px in VRAM

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It also might be creating buffer which is slow it can take up to 10 ms

merry laurel Nov 17, 2024, 3:02 PM

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paper ore when i do a 360 😄

Also you gotta consider that I am rendering this in 0.5ms so meshes get evicted really quickly 😄

paper ore Nov 17, 2024, 3:10 PM

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perhaps this will be depending on what kind of game you make with it

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a car racing game which is rather linear you can just evict asap

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with some openworld fps nonsense not so fast

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openworld rts with some isometric camera faster again et al

merry laurel Nov 17, 2024, 3:30 PM

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Either way it should be fast

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Its time to make it faster

supple cliff Nov 17, 2024, 3:56 PM

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cracked

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i looove tracy traces

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oooh so sexy

merry laurel Nov 19, 2024, 2:42 PM

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made it "instant" with caching and running it in release build KEKW

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so much threads

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Funny thing this would be faster(my guess everything would be loaded in 1 frame) if threads werent too slow to pick up the jobs

merry laurel Nov 19, 2024, 3:38 PM

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thanks to task and mesh shader I need to basically change all my code

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https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

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also tragic embed fail

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 2:28 PM

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I just hit a slang compiler bug 💀

paper ore Nov 20, 2024, 2:40 PM

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report it

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the frogs usually respond rather kwik

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 3:02 PM

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this is the code that makes slang explode

groupshared u32 hw_meshlet_count;
[shader("amplification")]
[numthreads(32, 1, 1)]
void draw_meshlets_task(u32vec3 local_thread_index : SV_GroupThreadID, u32vec3 global_thread_index : SV_DispatchThreadID, u32vec3 group_index : SV_GroupID) {
    const u32 count = push.uses.u_meshlets_data->count; // reading from pointer in push constant
    
    if(local_thread_index.x == 0) {
        printf("%u\n", count); // commenting this make validation layer error disappear

        // also commenting makes validation layer error disappear.
        // printf or atomic code below has to be commented in other to not crash
        u32 i = 0;
        InterlockedAdd(hw_meshlet_count, 1, i);
        hw_meshlet_count = i;
    }

    GroupMemoryBarrierWithGroupSync();
}

struct Vertex {
    f32vec4 sv_position : SV_Position;
};

struct Primtive {
    nointerpolation [[vk::location(0)]] u32 vis_index;
    bool cull_primitive : SV_CullPrimitive;
};

[outputtopology("triangle")]
[shader("mesh")]
[numthreads(1, 1, 1)]
void draw_meshlets_mesh(
    in payload MeshPayload payload,
    u32vec3 local_thread_index : SV_GroupThreadID,
    u32vec3 group_index : SV_GroupID,
    u32vec3 global_thread_index : SV_DispatchThreadID,
    OutputIndices<u32vec3, MAX_TRIANGLES_PER_MESHLET> out_indices,
    OutputVertices<Vertex, MAX_VERTICES_PER_MESHLET> out_vertices,
    OutputPrimitives<Primtive, MAX_TRIANGLES_PER_MESHLET> out_primitives) {}

[shader("fragment")]
void draw_meshlets_frag(in Vertex vertex, in Primtive primitive) {}   ```

paper ore Nov 20, 2024, 3:15 PM

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report it 🙂

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 4:00 PM

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updated slang and its gone KEKW

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 6:03 PM

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I am fighting task graph allocator

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@supple cliff Is there some stupid way to make the buffer larger?

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found it

supple cliff Nov 20, 2024, 6:07 PM

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yes in constructor\

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 6:09 PM

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so stupid KEKW

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paper ore Nov 20, 2024, 6:14 PM

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how many trillion of verticles is this?

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 6:18 PM

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this many 44 224 440 125 vertices

paper ore Nov 20, 2024, 6:20 PM

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0.0044224440125 trillion vertices

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 6:20 PM

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bleakekw

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I need to optimize

paper ore Nov 20, 2024, 6:20 PM

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we clearly need...

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https://tenor.com/view/more-kylo-ren-adam-driver-screaming-star-wars-gif-17734637

Tenor

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 6:20 PM

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I have 24 MB buffer for each bistro so multiply that by 125 bistros

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how much memory it is

paper ore Nov 20, 2024, 6:20 PM

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oofy

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3000

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 6:21 PM

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this was optimization for my 1050

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I will remove it and do mesh shaders

paper ore Nov 20, 2024, 6:21 PM

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4080 has 12? or 16? giggerinos of vram

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 6:21 PM

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16

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also other thing that I need to fix is my task graph allocator

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remove dependence on it

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also the memory budget textures vs geometry is insane KEKW

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paper ore Nov 20, 2024, 6:44 PM

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ok so 16/3 is 5

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that means you can do 725 bistros

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0.02 TRILLION vertices 😄

merry laurel Nov 20, 2024, 9:31 PM

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I dont why adding buffer_ptr to task makes engine crash in submit

merry laurel Nov 21, 2024, 5:56 PM

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merry laurel

fixed it

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same scene but 15x less memory

paper ore Nov 21, 2024, 5:57 PM

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ok so 725 times, times 15

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0.02 times 15 is 0.3 TRILLION no? 😄

merry laurel Nov 21, 2024, 5:58 PM

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dammit

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I want my 1 trillion vertices

summer sigil Nov 21, 2024, 7:06 PM

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You can compress meshlets very easily

paper ore Nov 21, 2024, 7:10 PM

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put 3 more gpus in the system

merry laurel Nov 21, 2024, 7:49 PM

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I loaded 1000 bistros and its 909 MB

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Its jugging on sw raster KEKW

paper ore Nov 21, 2024, 8:11 PM

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: D

merry laurel Nov 21, 2024, 8:11 PM

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hiz is broken again bleakekw

merry laurel Nov 21, 2024, 8:37 PM

#

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so much saving

paper ore Nov 21, 2024, 8:42 PM

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the heck

merry laurel Nov 21, 2024, 8:44 PM

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git stash my beloved

merry laurel Nov 21, 2024, 9:04 PM

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Okay now I need to optimize CPU side

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:04 PM

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oh boy I am iterating over 154k entities 💀

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easy 70ms of frame time gone

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added special flag for root entities

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and now transforms

pale vortex Nov 22, 2024, 4:18 PM

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what impl are you using for them?

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for the iteration I mean

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I don't think 154k is a lot for ecs

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:28 PM

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I am using flecs. I was iterating over each entity in query and checking if it doesnt have parent

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that costed me 60-70ms

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I tried the flecs way but It looks like its sameish

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So I went for special flag which changed that from 60-70ms -> 50us

pale vortex Nov 22, 2024, 4:32 PM

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yes that's how I store parenting info too

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the hierarchy is another set of components where entities have a HierarchyParent component

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but it is strange that flecs doesn't provide this out of the box

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:32 PM

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flecs has its own. imo its kind of weird

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:33 PM

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pale vortex but it is strange that flecs doesn't provide this out of the box

it does

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this is how you assign parent to child

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this is how you iterate over children

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query_transforms = world->query_builder<GlobalTransformComponent, LocalTransformComponent, GlobalTransformComponent*>().term_at(3).cascade(flecs::ChildOf).optional().build();

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this is for iterating over parents and cascading to children

pale vortex Nov 22, 2024, 4:35 PM

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something must be wrong, 70ms is enormous for hierarchy traversal

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:35 PM

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yeah

pale vortex Nov 22, 2024, 4:35 PM

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wait

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you're not running debug are you

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is this a debug build

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:36 PM

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I am

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always debug KEKW

pale vortex Nov 22, 2024, 4:36 PM

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well eventually you'll want a develop build with optimizations on, but do check what flecs docs say about this

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and if it requires optimizations to be on to be fast

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:37 PM

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now its also fast in debug so I am not complaining KEKW

pale vortex Nov 22, 2024, 4:38 PM

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yeah but if all you want is to see which are the root level entities, then yeah you solved it quickly

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but what if you want which are the entities that are two levels deep within their hierarchy that have a particular property?

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you're back at 70ms

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in general it doesn't make sense to benchmark debug because it reflects nothing real

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:39 PM

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I am not planning to turning this into game engine or game in near future. So jank solutions until then

pale vortex Nov 22, 2024, 4:39 PM

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it certainly doesn't reflect the performance your user will see

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the code will be changed so much by the optimizer (the assembly I mean) that it won't resemble debug at all, most likely

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:40 PM

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yeah. I got quite big uplift for streaming

pale vortex Nov 22, 2024, 4:40 PM

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these are the components that I use for my hierarchy

struct HierarchyParent
{
    SceneEntityId ParentId;
};

struct HierarchyChildren
{
    std::vector<SceneEntityId> Children;
};

struct IsRootInHierarchy
{

};

I don't have 154k entities for sure tho so I never benchmarked it

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it's a bit of work when the hierarchy changes but iterating afterwards should be reasonably quick

merry laurel Nov 22, 2024, 4:41 PM

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I had something simillar with entt. flecs has its own way and I am lazy to learn it. It took me a while to query all parent and childrens transforms

merry laurel Nov 24, 2024, 9:52 PM

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Todo list for me:

pack transforms and readback for meshes
make mesh shaders faster
try nanite lods

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No clue how I will select the correct lod

paper ore Nov 24, 2024, 10:04 PM

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by area perhaps

merry laurel Nov 24, 2024, 10:05 PM

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thats the easy part

paper ore Nov 24, 2024, 10:05 PM

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now draw the rest of the fucking owl

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: >

merry laurel Nov 24, 2024, 10:06 PM

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but you need to make sure you dont select upper lod level or lower(basically rendering 2 lods meshlets just overlaying each other)

paper ore Nov 24, 2024, 10:06 PM

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a little overdraw hasnt hurt anyone yet :>

merry laurel Nov 24, 2024, 10:08 PM

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froge_bleak

paper ore Nov 24, 2024, 10:09 PM

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ignore me please, i have no clue about any of this advanced tek

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people in #1090390868449558618 know probably or have ideas

merry laurel Nov 24, 2024, 10:10 PM

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I will try to figure this thing. It is going to be fun

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first I will get the lods on the screen first

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Also I hope nvidia devs will bless us with nsight update 🙏

summer sigil Nov 24, 2024, 11:32 PM

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merry laurel thats the easy part

Yeah, building the LOD is very difficult to get good results. I still have a lot of stuck triangles a lot of the time.

merry laurel Nov 25, 2024, 8:25 PM

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bleaker_kekw

merry laurel Nov 25, 2024, 9:48 PM

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No clue why going out of bounds on gpu doesnt prompt crash for me....

paper ore Nov 25, 2024, 9:55 PM

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perhaps robustness is on/off by default?

merry laurel Nov 25, 2024, 10:07 PM

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pretty sure its off

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6656 bytes -> 208 bytes
18.8 MB -> 12.6MB

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nice savings

merry laurel Nov 26, 2024, 11:55 AM

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Today move the rest of code to mesh shaders and hopefuly do some optimization.

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Then 🥁 🥁 🥁 ||nanite lods||

proud marten Nov 28, 2024, 12:24 AM

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merry laurel https://tenor.com/view/drake-drizzy-drizzy-drake-champagnepapi-toronto-gif-64934...

i think you would like my gif collection

merry laurel Nov 28, 2024, 6:39 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpsons-the-simpsons-drooling-gif-8614029254724678855

Tenor

merry laurel Dec 1, 2024, 8:27 PM

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So I moved code to mesh shaders. It was pain to do so. I was hitting some edge cases

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Now finally meshlets lods

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Gotta do a lot of reading

merry laurel Dec 1, 2024, 9:25 PM

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also got this baby

merry laurel Dec 4, 2024, 4:38 PM

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I am thinking of taking pause on this project and try hw rt

merry laurel Dec 4, 2024, 7:05 PM

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you are joking

#

#

https://tenor.com/view/yippee-happy-yippee-creature-yippee-meme-yippee-gif-gif-1489386840712152603

Tenor

supple cliff Dec 4, 2024, 7:23 PM

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daxa rt?

merry laurel Dec 4, 2024, 7:27 PM

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supple cliff daxa rt?

yes yes

supple cliff Dec 4, 2024, 7:27 PM

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cool cool

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the shader binding table stuff is still very akawrd

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but we couldnt find a good abstraction yet

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jaisero worked on it a while but i didnt check on it

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So i am eager to see what you come up with

merry laurel Dec 4, 2024, 8:13 PM

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yeah I was looking at shader binding table and it was ify. I have some idea but idk

merry laurel Dec 4, 2024, 8:47 PM

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@supple cliff My idea to get rid of indices is to wrap it into objects that would hide the index and make it readable.

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This the idea I got without much going in depth

merry laurel Dec 4, 2024, 10:04 PM

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I might have shot myself into foot with offline asset baking and some assumptions with meshlets

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also I unload meshes from VRAM so another bullet hole in my foot

merry laurel Dec 7, 2024, 11:36 AM

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quite chonker

paper ore Dec 7, 2024, 11:37 AM

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is that your current project?

merry laurel Dec 7, 2024, 11:39 AM

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yeah if you render your scene in 0.2ms and you are sending 500mbps it fill ups quite fast

merry laurel Dec 7, 2024, 11:39 AM

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merry laurel quite chonker

this is from tracy and not RAM usage of my project 😄

paper ore Dec 7, 2024, 11:49 AM

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ah

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but

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what does it show exactly

merry laurel Dec 7, 2024, 11:51 AM

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it shows the amount of data that tracy received from application that is being profiled

pale vortex Dec 7, 2024, 11:51 AM

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when you really want to make sure you get 60fps even after your game runs for 100 hours

paper ore Dec 7, 2024, 11:55 AM

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i see

merry laurel Dec 7, 2024, 3:23 PM

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much better

merry laurel Dec 8, 2024, 12:07 AM

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sw raster

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sw raster disabled

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quite abysmal

summer sigil Dec 8, 2024, 12:31 AM

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Uh, why's it so slow? Mine is way faster 🤔

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Did you cache vertices in wg memory?

supple cliff Dec 8, 2024, 12:34 AM

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i also have way more occupancy, its at 80% or so for me

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maybe its the scene

merry laurel Dec 8, 2024, 1:31 AM

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I do cache in wg memory and the scene in question

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its 2544037 meshlets in question to be sw rendered nervous

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both in early and late pass

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Only thing to help me would be LODs

merry laurel Dec 9, 2024, 5:30 AM

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bleakekw

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finally slang support froge_love

summer sigil Dec 9, 2024, 6:30 AM

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Does nsight have anything that tells you which variables are living long?

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It just tells you number of live registers, but I don't see how to turn that into something actionable

merry laurel Dec 9, 2024, 6:32 AM

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I will be able to check in 10 hours after school bleaker_kekw

supple cliff Dec 9, 2024, 11:42 AM

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summer sigil It just tells you number of live registers, but I don't see how to turn that int...

just registers

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it shows what register usage certain lines cause

merry laurel Dec 9, 2024, 11:46 AM

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merry laurel <:bleakekw:1082598350303539240>

I am wondering if moving this snippet of code to if statement(local_index == 0 or wave is first line) and caching those variables in the wg memory would help

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I've got no clue

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This is the first time I am able to profile the frame and see shaders

merry laurel Dec 9, 2024, 9:26 PM

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made it bit better

merry laurel Dec 9, 2024, 9:51 PM

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now this is the worst offender

#

#

I made other change which cut it by 0.5ms in total. But these changes are quite incremental. The biggest problem is how many meshlets are rendered in first place

merry laurel Dec 10, 2024, 6:40 PM

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I found easy trick to compute normal matrix on gpu

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and its dirt cheap

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    cross(transform_matrix[1].xyz, transform_matrix[2].xyz), 
    cross(transform_matrix[2].xyz, transform_matrix[0].xyz), 
    cross(transform_matrix[0].xyz, transform_matrix[1].xyz)
);```

merry laurel Dec 10, 2024, 9:48 PM

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My gpu transform info went from 128 bytes to 84 bytes after using 3x4 matrix and 3x3 matrix. Now it can be just 3x4 matrix(48 bytes). After seperating position, scale and quaternion from matrix it can be just 40 bytes

merry laurel Dec 13, 2024, 2:34 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/ifunny-mr-stark-meme-avengers-gif-21407304

Tenor

merry laurel Dec 13, 2024, 6:25 PM

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lods are borked froge_sad

paper ore Dec 13, 2024, 6:36 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/its-broken-fichael-farzar-is-it-not-working-its-not-functioning-gif-26019690

Tenor

merry laurel Dec 13, 2024, 8:40 PM

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I had some big chunks missing

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it seems it really hates roofs of bistro since they are made just out of one meshlet

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 8:25 PM

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cooked

paper ore Dec 14, 2024, 8:52 PM

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how does overdraw l ook like?

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 8:53 PM

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honestly I wonder too KEKW

paper ore Dec 14, 2024, 9:05 PM

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luckily i know a tool which can visualize that 😛

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:11 PM

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paper ore luckily i know a tool which can visualize that 😛

I do sw raster also so it wouldnt help froge_sad

devout niche Dec 14, 2024, 9:25 PM

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merry laurel cooked

why the buffer memory usage is high, when for images it’s low af?

summer sigil Dec 14, 2024, 9:35 PM

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How do y'all deal with small meshlets/triangles getting stuck and never getting simplified?

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Like meshopt does a great job of evenly splitting things up into meshlets for the first LOD

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But then the next level it gets kinda screwed up, and it often dosen't simplify out

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:46 PM

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devout niche why the buffer memory usage is high, when for images it’s low af?

its a lot of data you are looking at 125k meshes and I allocate the worst case

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:47 PM

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paper ore how does overdraw l ook like?

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:48 PM

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summer sigil How do y'all deal with small meshlets/triangles getting stuck and never getting ...

only choice is to cry in corner

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one leaf is one meshlet bleakekw

summer sigil Dec 14, 2024, 9:49 PM

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ugh

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Unreal solved it somehow

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:51 PM

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I wonder how

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in my case I dont see how the meshlets would be more simplified

paper ore Dec 14, 2024, 9:55 PM

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merry laurel

that dark red spot is that stupid bushy tree neh?

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:55 PM

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yeah froge_sad

paper ore Dec 14, 2024, 9:55 PM

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bistor bad

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:55 PM

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paper ore Dec 14, 2024, 9:55 PM

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yeah

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:56 PM

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@devout niche here are the stats

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13.5m meshlets

paper ore Dec 14, 2024, 9:57 PM

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didnt we have trillions of vertices already?

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: )

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:57 PM

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nope

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sw raster is jugging destroying performace so much

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only good thing is I finally got lods in

paper ore Dec 14, 2024, 9:59 PM

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if only that could be hardware acceleratered 😄

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 9:59 PM

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so I can focus on performace

paper ore Dec 14, 2024, 9:59 PM

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its an oxymoron

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 10:00 PM

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I know frogegreenexcited . It was to my previous message

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 10:00 PM

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merry laurel so I can focus on performace

and writing thesis with studying for final exam

paper ore Dec 14, 2024, 10:00 PM

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do that first

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can wait

merry laurel Dec 14, 2024, 10:01 PM

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thesis and the final exams are in few months

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so its fine

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they are in may

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so many changes

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 12:24 AM

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@small osprey I'm thinking about it, and how does a seperate BVH tree per LOD level make sense? Wouldn't all the groups in a LOD level have similar errors?? What's the BVH really accelerating here?

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Frustum/Occlusion culling, maybe?? Idk

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 4:26 AM

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summer sigil <@488643966502436865> I'm thinking about it, and how does a seperate BVH tree pe...

Wouldn't all the groups in a LOD level have similar errors??
yeah you want that so you can find the cut. if you had widely varying errors next to each other in the tree, you'd traverse using only the min of them, so it would be a deeper traversal

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 4:28 AM

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But like what's the point of a tree then?

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Why not just group meshlets by LOD, and then have like 1 two level tree where you select a LOD level, and then look at every meshlet in the LOD

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 4:35 AM

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summer sigil Why not just group meshlets by LOD, and then have like 1 two level tree where yo...

you don't always select only one lod

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that's discrete lods again

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remember, we have similar world space errors, but they're not similar after screen space transformation

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 4:36 AM

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Yes, but you can still have a 2-level tree

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 4:36 AM

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it depends on absolute error as well as bounds

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 4:36 AM

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I don't get how you're accelerating anything by having a multi level tree

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 4:37 AM

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because the value you're traversing on depends on abs error and bounds

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 4:37 AM

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I'm not getting it :/

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 4:37 AM

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you project error to the screen

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so that depends on where the group is

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 4:37 AM

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right, and?

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 4:38 AM

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so you can discard huge parts of the lod-bvh if a node high up has too much error

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say you have a lod transition halfway across the mesh from the camera

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you will traverse the half of the lod-bvh for lod n, and half of it for lod n + 1

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if you had a two level tree you'd traverse two whole lods

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now imagine you have 6 lod transitions because it's a massive mesh

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with a two level tree you'd go through 6 lods worth of meshlets

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with a bvh it's roughly similar

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i think atleast

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i just did it because that's what the slides said they did lmfao

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 4:42 AM

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ok, so

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the LOD selection is based only on LOD spheres

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So do you build your AABBs for the BVH based on the group LOD spheres?

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I know LOD selection depends in part based on the meshlet group position

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But like I don't quite see how the BVH interacts with that

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 5:11 AM

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summer sigil the LOD selection is based only on LOD spheres

well, not really

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abs error is not identical across an entire LOD

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it varies considerably

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 5:11 AM

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Does it? Ok

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 5:11 AM

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it just whatever meshopts spits out as the highest edge collapse error

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 5:12 AM

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Remind me how I build the leaves of the BVH though? It's meshlet groups, but what do I use for determining the AABB bounds for it's BVH node?

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 5:12 AM

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if some part of the mesh lower tri density, error will be higher for the same lod

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individual meshlet AABBs iirc

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 5:12 AM

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You're not using meshlet groups for your BVH leaves?

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 5:12 AM

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small osprey if some part of the mesh lower tri density, error will be higher for the same lo...

truuuue, ok

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 5:13 AM

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uhhhh i forgor lemme check what i actually do

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so group lod spheres are the union of all meshlet lod spheres

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 5:15 AM

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ok yes

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then how do you start building the BVH?

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 5:23 AM

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over actual group AABBs apparently

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like, just union of meshlet AABBs

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don't ask why

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KEKW

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 5:28 AM

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right, that's what I thought

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but then how do you garuntee that error is monotonic down the BVH?

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 5:31 AM

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summer sigil but then how do you garuntee that error is monotonic down the BVH?

i store unioned lod bounds too for projection

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just don't use it for SAH

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maybe i should

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also my error projection still isn't quite right so it's not actually monotonic always froge_sad

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things like disappearing sometimes

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but very rarely

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 5:32 AM

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small osprey just don't use it for SAH

right, and this seems like a problem

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 5:33 AM

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shouldn't be a correctness problem, maybe just a perf issue

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because when converting the temporary build bvh to the full bvh i recursively merge all lod and cull bounds again

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and max out abs errors

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idk tho

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i wrote this code with zero refs because karis doesn't talk about it in the slides kekkedsadge

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it's a miracle it even somewhat works

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 5:35 AM

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yeah :/

merry laurel Dec 15, 2024, 12:36 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/kowalski-noted-penguins-penguins-of-madagascar-gif-1306663699157096677

Tenor

merry laurel Dec 15, 2024, 1:32 PM

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what the actual fuck

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I just went from 30 ms -> 12 ms

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So stupid

supple cliff Dec 15, 2024, 1:53 PM

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merry laurel

this is how tidos culling looks like atm

merry laurel Dec 15, 2024, 1:56 PM

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quite simillar

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 9:30 PM

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LOD 0

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LOD 1

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LOD 2

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I don't know why it gets so much worse over time D:

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how I'm grouping clusters must be poorly done

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that, or splitting the group ig

merry laurel Dec 15, 2024, 9:35 PM

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how are you able to see invidual lods?

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also I might be too tired but I dont see anything really wrong

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number of meshlets is going down

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 9:37 PM

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merry laurel how are you able to see invidual lods?

Messing around with error projection

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 9:38 PM

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merry laurel also I might be too tired but I dont see anything really wrong

I'm using the exact same mesh as https://shawntsh1229.github.io/2024/05/08/Simplified-Nanite-Virtualized-Geometry-In-MiniEngine/#Cluster-Partition but they have way better partitions

merry laurel Dec 15, 2024, 9:39 PM

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I need to play more with the nanite lods but first I want to optimize the rendering

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 9:40 PM

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I'm going to try adding spatial links between clusters and see if it helps

merry laurel Dec 15, 2024, 9:41 PM

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👀

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Tell me later if it improved the grouping

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 9:56 PM

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I'm not sure how to do it tbh

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I want to focus on minimizing shared edges

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But also have it so if that there's an equal number of shared edges, then to use spatial weights

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 9:57 PM

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summer sigil LOD 2

I see tiny meshlets

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 9:57 PM

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maybe it's the splitting step thats the problem

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and not the gropuing

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 9:58 PM

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which means that clustering groups after simplification is messing up yeah

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what's your target tri count?

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 9:58 PM

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small osprey what's your target tri count?

128t 255v

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 9:58 PM

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no like percentage for simplify

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 9:58 PM

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small osprey which means that clustering groups after simplification is messing up yeah

you mean making meshlets out of the simplified group?

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 9:58 PM

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summer sigil you mean making meshlets out of the simplified group?

yeah

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 9:59 PM

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small osprey what's your target tri count?

Amount of indices in the group / 2

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 9:59 PM

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try 45% maybe

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oh yeah how large are your groups

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 10:00 PM

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8 meshlets

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 10:01 PM

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small osprey try 45% maybe

Nah still a problem

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I keep ending up with these tiny meshlets :/

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 10:02 PM

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summer sigil 8 meshlets

try bumping up to 16 as well perhaps

merry laurel Dec 15, 2024, 10:05 PM

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How long do your assets take to build?

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 10:06 PM

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pretty much instant for the bunny, much longer for larger meshes

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 10:07 PM

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small osprey try bumping up to 16 as well perhaps

Same problem

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 10:08 PM

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rip

small osprey Dec 15, 2024, 10:09 PM

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merry laurel How long do your assets take to build?

15 minutes for lucy, but less than a minute for something with 4 mil trognles KEKW

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something isn't quite linear

summer sigil Dec 15, 2024, 10:14 PM

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I need to build a way to visualize groups, so that I can see if it's the grouping, the simplification, or the splitting step that's the issue

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 3:37 AM

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jasmine's blog and the nanite slides personally

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:13 AM

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Thank you. Nanite is similar to normal meshlet rendering but with nanite lods and software rasterization in compute. I will send you resources when I come home froge_love

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 11:59 AM

#

The thing that most help me was lurking here and reading everything that I could but also the implementations

https://jglrxavpok.github.io/
https://jms55.github.io/posts/
https://shawntsh1229.github.io/2024/05/08/Simplified-Nanite-Virtualized-Geometry-In-MiniEngine/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtX7WnFhxtQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR2my8OE1Sc&list=PL0JVLUVCkk-l7CWCn3-cdftR0oajugYvd

paper ore Dec 16, 2024, 12:41 PM

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jglrxavpok is also on the serveur, jmsine too 😛

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lvstri and wpotti also have some clue

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 3:08 PM

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quite a lot

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I need to learn gpu work expansion 😔

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 8:41 PM

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does anybody know what this means?

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I love how nsight has 0 useful docs

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 9:15 PM

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I need to fix my random crashes...

paper ore Dec 16, 2024, 9:16 PM

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0.0029 TRILLION vertices

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 9:18 PM

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paper ore 0.0029 TRILLION vertices

technically 16T vertices 🤓 ☝️

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I should get rid of the vertex count. its the unique vertices count

paper ore Dec 16, 2024, 9:20 PM

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then show the real values

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 9:20 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/shannon-sharpe-undisputed-nope-funny-face-gif-536487951695337499

Tenor

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:15 PM

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merry laurel does anybody know what this means?

bug if you use timeline semas iirc

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it's not a real bottleneck

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:18 PM

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froge_love

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Nvidia should fix their stuff

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:24 PM

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you should go work for them

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:32 PM

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would like to but I need to get out of the high school first froge_sad

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so in 4 years(also after collage) bleakekw

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:35 PM

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merry laurel would like to but I need to get out of the high school first <:froge_sad:1105211...

your school is high? KEKW

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:35 PM

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yep

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still stuck in high school

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:36 PM

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i miss high school

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:36 PM

#

after I graduate I will have long summer holidays about 4 months and then collage starts...

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:36 PM

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life was so fun back then

#

now i speedrun 2 months of coursework in 3 days after the deadline

#

froge_bleak

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:38 PM

#

merry laurel after I graduate I will have long summer holidays about 4 months and then collag...

meanwhile I will work. I am lucky that after graduation I need to just call a manager at one company to get a job immediately froge_love

#

I hope the collage wont suck that much

#

I already know some cs stuff from hs which is like 2 semesters

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:40 PM

#

small osprey i miss high school

Honestly I dont

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:40 PM

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you will soon enough KEKW

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:41 PM

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friends and classmates are good. But boy doing nothing or some worthless stuff

#

at least I know how to configure ms dos and set up vlans

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:41 PM

#

small osprey you will soon enough <:KEKW:666849321462792234>

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

Tenor

#

I wont be missing waking up at 5:00 to get to school

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:42 PM

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ok yeah i don't miss that

#

i love waking up at 4 pm and missing all my lectures

#

it's great

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:43 PM

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night owl I see

#

I am in last grade and there is almost nothing to teach and final exams are around the corner. So my thurdays and fridays look like get to school at 7:00, sit 2 hours some linux stuff, sit 2 hours for java stuff, english and another 2 hours of java where teacher shows to how brew beer

#

Also today we had some students from collage to present why to choose their collage. Not joking the pros of their collage is they have their own brewery and pub in faculty

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

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yeah 12th grade for me was vibe, chemistry, then vibe

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

#

merry laurel Also today we had some students from collage to present why to choose their coll...

are you germany

#

surely you're in germany

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

#

a lot of collages have pub on faculties KEKW

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

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small osprey surely you're in germany

nope

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

#

lol

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

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czechia

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

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we've got like 3 student union run bars

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

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we drink 2x more beer than germans

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

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no brewery tho

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:46 PM

#

merry laurel we drink 2x more beer than germans

this isnt a joke

#

#

this is just beer

#

we have own wine and hard alcohol

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:48 PM

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surely the UK is gonna beat y'all on pure alcohol consumption right

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:48 PM

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nope

#

My beloved slivovice

#

90% pure alcohol

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:49 PM

#

yum

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:49 PM

#

doubles as nail polish remover

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:49 PM

#

nail polish or nail polish remover

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:50 PM

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In few days christmass holidays which I will spent preparing for final exams bleakekw

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:50 PM

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froge_sad

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:50 PM

#

Standard is your native language 2 essay, grammar exam and read 20 books and they will ask you questions about everything even authors. Then English or Math, English is an easy essay and grammar and oral. Math is self explanatory. But I am in computer science high school so I have additional programming, databases, networking, hardware and some stuff about boolean algebra, processors, etc... and then also high school thesis(basically bacholar thesis)

#

this is what awaits me

#

in few months

#

Each cs subject is 30 questions

#

It is a lot to remember

#

All these exams happen in 1.5 week window

small osprey Dec 16, 2024, 10:57 PM

#

wtf

merry laurel Dec 16, 2024, 10:57 PM

#

Also I will have my collage entrance exams before I graduate

#

yeah thats why I am bleaker_kekw about final exams

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 6:15 PM

#

Ok, so here's what my meshlet groups look like at LOD 1

#

I'm gonna try METIS for grouping triangles into meshlets

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 6:22 PM

#

it looks a bit better at least from this angle

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 6:29 PM

#

Anyone have unreal they can run the mesh through and see how it looks in nanite?

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 6:29 PM

#

I am downloading unreal if you can send me the model file I can try

#

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 6:34 PM

#

Thank you!

📎 bunny.glb

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 6:35 PM

#

thats going to take some time

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 6:35 PM

#

Nw 😅 . I appreciate the help.

#

See if Nanite can visualize meshlet groups, or only meshlets.

#

And try to get close enough to visualize LOD 0 and 1 please

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 6:36 PM

#

keeping me warm froge_love

#

@summer sigil 😉

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 6:46 PM

#

Those are clusters and not cluster groups, right?

#

Thanks!

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 6:47 PM

#

#

clusters

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 6:50 PM

#

Hmm what is "patches"?

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 6:55 PM

#

I wonder too

#

triangles?

#

#

#

unreal has now nanite tesellation so its maybe related to that?

paper ore Dec 17, 2024, 6:57 PM

#

the term patches suggests that yeah

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 6:59 PM

#

Ohh probably

#

I was going to say, it could be cluster groups, but I never saw them use that term.

#

Tesselation is more likely, given that it was added after their 2021 presentation

#

Anyways I think there probably is improvements I could make to the cluster grouping

#

But I have a feeling that my main issue rn is meshopt's meshlet algorithm performs poorly for Nanite

#

Small meshlets are very problematic when you need to make the next LOD

#

And it dosen't prioritize minimizing locked edges

#

So, I'm gonna try METIS

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 7:06 PM

#

summer sigil Tesselation is more likely, given that it was added after their 2021 presentatio...

It is from their new presentation
https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/take-a-deep-dive-into-nanite-gpu-driven-materials

Unreal Engine

Take a deep dive into Nanite GPU-driven materials

Learn about the GPU-driven material pipeline’s core components and how they fit into Nanite’s overall design in this GDC 2024 presentation.

#

They have done some serious improvents to rendering and materials

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 7:07 PM

#

Yeah I've read that. I haven't spent any time on material optimization or ergonomics yet.

#

I plan to eventually though

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 7:07 PM

#

Same here

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 7:07 PM

#

Really hoping we get device generated commands in wgpu before I have to tackle that...

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 7:08 PM

#

I want to spent few months on nanite until I graduate then I will have fun with shading and other stuff

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 7:08 PM

#

summer sigil _Really_ hoping we get device generated commands in wgpu before I have to tackle...

For what it would be useful? I only see it handy in culling

#

or also materials

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 7:09 PM

#

For materials

#

Doing 1 dispatch per material in your project is expensive

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 7:09 PM

#

brute force depth comps per material 💀

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 7:09 PM

#

Having a pass analyze the visbuffer, and then write out 1 dispatch per material actually needed is much cheaper.

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 7:10 PM

#

yeah they do something simillar

#

Also they do some VRS fun

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 7:10 PM

#

merry laurel brute force depth comps per material 💀

No that's what I do rn, but it's still:

A lot of depth tests
A lot of CPU overhead
Has issues with occupancy and empty draws. See the nanite presentation.

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 7:11 PM

#

merry laurel yeah they do something simillar

On consoles yes. On PC they didn't have anything available at the time of the presentation except workgraphs, which aren't as great as a fit as DGC.

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 7:12 PM

#

frogapprove

#

I will clean up my code and fix CPU perf issue

#

Then try loading bunny

#

Few weeks ago I tried reading dgc code and it was awful

#

good thing they allow you create your own structure and tell it what to read

#

also are you running meshopt_optimizeMeshlet for each meshlet? @summer sigil

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 7:23 PM

#

Yeah, it's part of the rust bindings

#

Like build_meshlets calls that internally

merry laurel Dec 17, 2024, 8:09 PM

#

lumen is having some schizo moment

summer sigil Dec 17, 2024, 9:03 PM

#

What's wrong with it?

#

oh, the boiling

#

That's inevitable

#

All you can do is design your game to work around it, try to hide it with texture detail, tweak some variables, etc.

merry laurel Dec 18, 2024, 8:20 PM

#

😭

merry laurel Dec 18, 2024, 9:17 PM

#

I am being so gaslighted rn

#

I am setting positions correctly but flecs is not doing its thing

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 4:56 AM

#

I kind of made progress on using METIS for meshlet generation instead of meshoptimizer

#

Not quite working though...

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 3:47 PM

#

summer sigil Not quite working though...

Did you look into SimNanite how it does it?

#

it doesnt provide any weights to metis at all

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 4:41 PM

#

I'll have to look

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 5:29 PM

#

I am hitting some weird bug/ub inside my ecs froge_sad
No clue why its happening so ditching this and will work on something else

#

how

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 5:37 PM

#

Ok so metis is choosing triangles for meshlets that are completely disjoint, ahhh

#

so, my graph edges are wrong, maybe

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 5:39 PM

#

froge_bleak

#

lvstri cooked some code while back

#

https://gist.github.com/LVSTRI/88042995d769284b120edff7e98bfcc9

Gist

METIS garbage

METIS garbage. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

#

let me search more

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 5:43 PM

#

Maybe it dosen't work if I do it on vertices

#

I'm partioning triangles based on shared vertices

#

Although maybe my vertex IDs are wrong, hmmm

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 5:44 PM

#

he did his own

#

Found it

#

📎 message.txt

#

@summer sigil ☝️

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 5:53 PM

#

mmhm

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 5:54 PM

#

summer sigil mmhm

are you converting the mesh into dual graph?

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 5:56 PM

#

no

#

I'm just using part graph kway on triangles

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 5:57 PM

#

then that might be it 😅

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 5:57 PM

#

oh hang on I might know

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 5:58 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/interesting-tell-me-more-baby-kid-cute-think-gif-17321943

Tenor

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 6:01 PM

#

ah yeah that fixed it

#

I was essentially saying triangle_id = indices[i] / 3

#

when it should be triangle_id = i / 3

#

The issue is ofc these tiny meshlets still

#

And I'm only setting partition size to 120, not 128

#

Because otherwise metis might go over and hit 129 or 130

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 6:02 PM

#

😔

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 6:03 PM

#

Annoying that METIS has these tiny meshlets too

#

But manual recursive bisection might help, idk

summer sigil Dec 19, 2024, 6:24 PM

#

Ok so even if there are small meshlets at LOD 0, the good news is that they don't get "stuck" as you build further LODs anymore! This is a visualization of the groups (not meshlets)

#

no tiny groups!

#

And if I zoom out on the meshlets view, no tiny meshlets stuck!

graceful spear Dec 19, 2024, 6:46 PM

#

😭 I come here to look at an interesting project and I get ptsd from networking this year

#

I did all of my teachers 30 packet tracers assignments in the last 3 days of school

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 6:52 PM

#

graceful spear 😭 I come here to look at an interesting project and I get ptsd from networking ...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1300611775380852757/1319065508829466685/Video-421.mp4?ex=676543bc&is=6763f23c&hm=3fea77c5e2f941f03c2bfa63b4fdeae74c69c5b2bba8aea5ce86dff0d4874c64&

▶ Play video

#

let me traumatize you even more

merry laurel Dec 19, 2024, 6:52 PM

#

summer sigil And if I zoom out on the meshlets view, no tiny meshlets stuck!

https://tenor.com/view/hai-gif-10567033442484308038

Tenor

merry laurel Dec 20, 2024, 10:42 PM

#

I am doing rn some cleaning up. I dropped VRAM usage for mesh instance 50% and meshlet instances 25%.
My todo list:

optimize culling
try getting rid of indirection in rendering(meshlet instance index -> meshlet instance data)
get rid of stupid populate meshlets shader that I have which sole job its iterate over all meshlets in mesh and write them out

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 3:57 AM

#

Finally, fixed LOD 0! #showcase message

small osprey Dec 22, 2024, 4:13 AM

#

what's the secret frogsippy

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:19 AM

#

Using METIS instead of meshopt to build meshlets, and a lot of careful tweaking of METIS

#

I use 128t:255v meshlets

small osprey Dec 22, 2024, 4:22 AM

#

that does not sound fun

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:23 AM

#

And for triangle partioning, you want to:

Build a graph where triangles are nodes, edges are between triangles that share an edge/vertex, with the edge weight being the count of shared edges/vertices
Set ufactor to 1
Use recursive bisection for the partioning method (still need to confirm that this is needed over kway)
Aim for triangle_count.div_ceil(126) partitions

#

Still need to test kway again, then test on more meshes, and then work on the meshlet partioning for groups

small osprey Dec 22, 2024, 4:24 AM

#

hmmm bisection would allow it to be multithreaded too

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:25 AM

#

Rn I'm still using a 8 target group size with ufactor=200 and rejecting <5% simplified groups. All this needs tweaking still.

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:25 AM

#

small osprey hmmm bisection would allow it to be multithreaded too

I'm not actually recursivley bisecting it myself, although I've heard this gives better results. Metis has a recursive bisect mode builtin.

small osprey Dec 22, 2024, 4:25 AM

#

ah

#

maybe i'll try doing it myself (eventually...)

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:26 AM

#

But from what I've heard the best way to partition things is recurvisley call part_recursive(partitions = 2) until you're close to the target partition size

#

I very much suggest spending time on the DAG build

small osprey Dec 22, 2024, 4:26 AM

#

would this be optimal for group partitioning too?

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:26 AM

#

It's the most important thing for perf

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:26 AM

#

small osprey would this be optimal for group partitioning too?

Which part?

small osprey Dec 22, 2024, 4:26 AM

#

recursive bisection in general

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:27 AM

#

Yes

small osprey Dec 22, 2024, 4:29 AM

#

summer sigil I very much suggest spending time on the DAG build

wellll i broke my entire runtime rendering when messing with adding a pathtracing ground truth mode

#

so i have to fix that too KEKW

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:31 AM

#

Algorithm 4 https://pettett.github.io/projects/meshes/main.pdf#page=25, kinda.

#

Not sure it's entirely perfect, but it's the rough idea

#

I think unreal uses METIS_PartRecursive instead of METIS_PartKWay like that paper does

small osprey Dec 22, 2024, 4:32 AM

#

oh someone made nanite their dissertation?

#

cute

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:33 AM

#

A couple people have

small osprey Dec 22, 2024, 4:34 AM

#

well i guess i have a fallback if i don't find something new till then lol

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:44 AM

#

summer sigil Algorithm 4 https://pettett.github.io/projects/meshes/main.pdf#page=25, kinda.

I think you might need to do this if you want perfect 128 size partitions

#

Otherwise if you go for 126 in a single go, most hit 126 and are slightly empty

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 5:01 AM

#

summer sigil Still need to test kway again, then test on more meshes, and then work on the me...

Update: Don't think the partition method matters, and it works well on the cliff too

supple cliff Dec 22, 2024, 11:03 AM

#

summer sigil Finally, fixed LOD 0! https://discord.com/channels/318590007881236480/3902640064...

those meshlets look very nice

devout niche Dec 22, 2024, 1:15 PM

#

supple cliff those meshlets look very nice

yeah, the overall pattern is pretty consistent too

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:34 PM

#

supple cliff those meshlets look very nice

Meshopt generates better meshlets if you're not doing hierarchal LODs, but yeah METIS helps for this a lot

supple cliff Dec 22, 2024, 4:36 PM

#

better in what way?

#

culling and vertex reuse?

summer sigil Dec 22, 2024, 4:37 PM

#

Idk about vertex reuse, but culling yes

#

Meshopt generates a lot more uniform meshlets

summer sigil Dec 25, 2024, 4:58 PM

#

I've been thinking about BVH based lod/culling and it just dosen't seem to make sense

#

These are the amounts of meshlet groups per LOD level
1984
1084
566
284
142
71
36
18
9
5
3
2
1
1
1

#

if you have one BVH per level, that's such an unbalanced tree

#

I mean it's still better than parallel brute force, but

small osprey Dec 25, 2024, 5:44 PM

#

summer sigil if you have one BVH per level, that's such an unbalanced tree

remember it's a BVH8

#

so each level has 8x the capacity

summer sigil Dec 25, 2024, 5:49 PM

#

Wdym?

small osprey Dec 25, 2024, 5:51 PM

#

each level has 8 children

#

so every level you add increases capacity by 8x

#

so every ~3 LODs adds a level

#

which isn't as bad

summer sigil Dec 25, 2024, 6:02 PM

#

No but I mean

#

You make a seperate bvh per lod

#

But each lod has ~half as many groups

#

So you end up with basically all of the nodes concentrated to the left side of the tree, no?

#

Which I mean I suppose is fine, idk

small osprey Dec 25, 2024, 6:28 PM

#

summer sigil So you end up with basically all of the nodes concentrated to the left side of t...

which tree?

summer sigil Dec 25, 2024, 6:28 PM

#

The overall tree

small osprey Dec 25, 2024, 6:29 PM

#

I guess yeah

#

idk maybe nanite does something smarter than me

#

it probably does

#

but my thingy is fast enough™️

summer sigil Dec 25, 2024, 6:30 PM

#

I mean yeah it'll be faster

#

Just feels off to me

paper ore Dec 25, 2024, 6:38 PM

#

its time yall nanite people cook up a program/slides where all your various tekneeks are compared against each other

#

ze bunny scene, ze bistor scene, heck why not even the deccer cube scene (the complex ones ina 20x20x20 cube)

#

because i have total overview who is implementing what based on what and what outcome each of yalls stuff has/does/makes

#

https://tenor.com/view/make-it-so-jean-luc-picard-star-trek-the-next-generation-make-it-happen-gif-23455354

Tenor

supple cliff Dec 25, 2024, 7:41 PM

#

summer sigil So you end up with basically all of the nodes concentrated to the left side of t...

i dont get it. Whats "the left side" with a bvh8? You can balance a bvh8 as well, it just have some one or some partially empty leaves

summer sigil Dec 25, 2024, 7:52 PM

#

supple cliff i dont get it. Whats "the left side" with a bvh8? You can balance a bvh8 as well...

The way nanite does it is make a seperate bvh per lod level, and then combine the roots into a new bvh node

supple cliff Dec 25, 2024, 8:26 PM

#

i see what you mean

#

i wouldnt really worry about that

#

maybe the largest lods should start earlier in the tree somewhat

#

i think you can try to balance that also

#

wont be perfect but you cant balance that anyway as the lods will just have different depths

summer sigil Dec 25, 2024, 8:43 PM

#

supple cliff wont be perfect but you cant balance that anyway as the lods will just have diff...

Right, that's the problem

#

It's widely unabalanced

supple cliff Dec 25, 2024, 10:00 PM

#

well thats fine, its just the nature of yhe tree that comes from combining different tree roots

#

you have to traverse a big part of many trees anyways so its mostly like traversing many trees, just a nicer interface to have one

small osprey Dec 25, 2024, 11:04 PM

#

summer sigil The way nanite does it is make a seperate bvh per lod level, and then combine th...

wait does it?

#

what I explained was just how I did it

#

I dunno how nanite actually does it

summer sigil Dec 25, 2024, 11:09 PM

#

small osprey wait does it?

Afaik yes

merry laurel Dec 29, 2024, 8:35 PM

#

Finally back. To do some work on this project

#

I made rendering a bit faster by getting rid of indirection for meshlet instance data from queue. It decreased frame time by 0.4-0.3ms. It aint that much for +-7ms frame.

#

Only downside is increased bandwidth and memory needed.

#

Also that I am limited to the half of meshlets that I could have before

#

In my case that is 33 554 432 meshlet instances

merry laurel Jan 1, 2025, 2:26 AM

#

A bit late but happy new year frogs froge_yeehaw

paper ore Jan 1, 2025, 2:27 AM

#

happy new frog my year

merry laurel Jan 2, 2025, 3:43 PM

#

I hope dwm.exe burns in hell

#

messing up my profiling

#

but looks like I got another 0.2ms from frame time

summer sigil Jan 3, 2025, 12:34 AM

#

@small osprey the leaf nodes you build your BVH out of are groups of clusters. Are the clusters pre or post simplification? I.e. the clusters you grouped before simplifying, or clusters you make after simplifying?

small osprey Jan 3, 2025, 12:36 AM

#

post simplify i think

summer sigil Jan 3, 2025, 12:36 AM

#

hrm

#

I need to fix that then

#

It makes sense, but I realize my stuff is wrong now

small osprey Jan 3, 2025, 12:42 AM

#

actually wait

#

lemme check the code

#

yeah i lied

#

misinfo

#

groups are before before simplify

#

but their parent err is filled in after simplification

summer sigil Jan 3, 2025, 1:37 AM

#

right, that's how I had it, but then why does that make sense?

#

"if error is low enough, display group"

#

...but the error is the amount of deformation of the simplified group (new meshlets). Not the original group.

small osprey Jan 3, 2025, 1:53 AM

#

summer sigil ...but the error is the amount of deformation of the _simplified_ group (new mes...

i store self-error in the meshlets, and parent-error in the groups

#

because only parent error is stored in the bvh

#

the bvh traversal visits all groups with parent error that isn't detailed enough

#

then meshlet cull goes through and only renders meshlets with self-error that's detailed enough

summer sigil Jan 3, 2025, 2:01 AM

#

hmmm

#

need to think on this more when I'm not exauhsted

merry laurel Jan 3, 2025, 12:00 PM

#

damn you hiz culling

#

but got another 0.3ms off frame time

paper ore Jan 3, 2025, 12:05 PM

#

you must be in negative milliseconds by now 😄

merry laurel Jan 3, 2025, 12:11 PM

#

I wish

#

So my 125 bistro + sponza scene is running around +-4.2ms when seeing everything

#

I shaved off +-1ms from it

#

major gains was when I removed indirection to fetch meshlet data

#

threads now directly fetch the needed data to fetch mesh, meshlet and transform data

#

The todays win is removing populate meshlets shader for prefix sum and binary search.

#

Next step is bvh culling idk if I will do it

paper ore Jan 3, 2025, 12:15 PM

#

now add VSM

merry laurel Jan 3, 2025, 12:16 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/the-punisher-gif-22731535

Tenor

merry laurel Jan 3, 2025, 12:18 PM

#

paper ore now add VSM

I am planning to do it but I want to do nanite™ rendering done

#

I can finally focus on writing the high school thesis/blog

paper ore Jan 3, 2025, 12:18 PM

#

ah

north helm Jan 3, 2025, 6:03 PM

#

merry laurel I can finally focus on writing the high school thesis/blog

About nanite ?

merry laurel Jan 3, 2025, 6:09 PM

#

north helm About nanite ?

yes

north helm Jan 3, 2025, 6:09 PM

#

Lets gooooo

#

Cant wait to read that

small osprey Jan 3, 2025, 9:37 PM

#

VSM cringe just RT everything

merry laurel Jan 3, 2025, 9:42 PM

#

then why nanite in first place KEKW

merry laurel Jan 3, 2025, 9:43 PM

#

north helm Cant wait to read that

It is going to take some time to write it bleakekw

#

I have to write it in 2 different languages

small osprey Jan 3, 2025, 10:20 PM

#

merry laurel then why nanite in first place <:KEKW:666849321462792234>

you can't RT for primary rays

#

too slow

#

I still dk how I'm gonna nicely RT stuff ngl

#

rn I just throw the high poly into a bvh

merry laurel Jan 3, 2025, 11:40 PM

#

I am planning to have PT reference to my raster cope

#

But rn sleep is in order and studying for stupid literature exam on 5 books + authors

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 9:47 PM

#

windows moment

#

I found out that windows does this randomly

paper ore Jan 5, 2025, 9:48 PM

#

does what?

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 9:48 PM

#

puts magnifier icon on desktop icons

paper ore Jan 5, 2025, 9:58 PM

#

looks like its indexing the file then

#

time to switch to linux

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

paper ore looks like its indexing the file then

its not. Its some ease of access windows thingy

paper ore Jan 5, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

you must have that enabled then

#

otherwise its off by default

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:32 PM

#

I used linux for while but physx omniverse support kind of pissed me of after fighting it for 6 hours and rage switched to using windows KEKW

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:32 PM

#

paper ore you must have that enabled then

I only touch bluetooth settings so windows automagicaly did something KEKW

paper ore Jan 5, 2025, 10:33 PM

#

maybe you pressed a magic win+shift+something shortcut triggerent the accessible isms

#

i used to get that switching fucking IME accidentally

#

left alt + left shift

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:34 PM

#

Anyway tomorrow school starts again bleakekw
This half of school year will be spent going to school doing nothing, gym, studying for collage and final exam

#

I will have collage entrance exams in 20 days. Hopefully you dont need to study really its logical and reading exam 🤷‍♂️

#

other exams are months away

paper ore Jan 5, 2025, 10:35 PM

#

i wish you best of luck 🙂

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:36 PM

#

This is just third of questions for computer science part of final exam

paper ore Jan 5, 2025, 10:36 PM

#

Maua Zaba is missing on the list

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:36 PM

#

Literature is bleakekw

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:37 PM

#

paper ore Maua Zaba is missing on the list

sadly they dont ask question about frogs froge_sad

paper ore Jan 5, 2025, 10:37 PM

#

: (

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:38 PM

#

Each file is circa 2/3 4A and some more

proud marten Jan 5, 2025, 10:41 PM

#

merry laurel Anyway tomorrow school starts again <:bleakekw:1082598350303539240> This half o...

MINES CANCELED FOR SNOW

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:41 PM

#

So yeah this half of the last grade is not going to be fun

#

but I will be rewarded with 4 months of holidays

#

and the college starts froge_sad

merry laurel Jan 5, 2025, 10:45 PM

#

proud marten MINES CANCELED FOR SNOW

Dont talk about snow. Czech weather pulled out some funny card. It didnt snowed for 20 days but today it snowed then we had warm weather so some snow turned into ice

#

So my groceries looked like this

#

https://tenor.com/view/slipping-on-ice-gif-gif-24763244

Tenor

#

Literally every 5 metres

proud marten Jan 5, 2025, 10:46 PM

#

LOL

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 11:42 AM

#

merry laurel I used linux for while but physx omniverse support kind of pissed me of after fi...

You mean just physx or you wanted to use omniverse too ?

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 11:45 AM

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north helm You mean just physx or you wanted to use omniverse too ?

The version of PhysX is called like that

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Basically PhysX 5

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 11:46 AM

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Okay

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I Got i to compile on linux

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But it was hell

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Basicaly you have to compile it manually by selecting the source files you want 🥲

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Their cmakelist is doomed

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 11:48 AM

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north helm Their cmakelist is doomed

I used vcpkg package and it was 6 hours of creating patches which didn't work

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 11:48 AM

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NVIDIA moment

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 11:49 AM

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north helm Basicaly you have to compile it manually by selecting the source files you want ...

But if you have it still on disk will you share the fix?

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 11:49 AM

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And the amount of GCC warnings is insane

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 11:49 AM

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I am clang user which was fun also

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 11:49 AM

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merry laurel But if you have it still on disk will you share the fix?

I can give you my cmakelist if you want

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 11:50 AM

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north helm I can give you my cmakelist if you want

Would appreciate it

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 11:50 AM

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Okay i'l give it when i start my computer

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 11:50 AM

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🫡

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 12:56 PM

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@merry laurel

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📎 message.txt

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i use it as a github submodule

summer sigil Jan 6, 2025, 4:11 PM

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Figuring out how to build the bvh is quite frustrating:/

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 4:33 PM

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north helm <@223771039648186378>

https://tenor.com/view/ferret-thief-steal-yoink-take-out-gif-17356971

Tenor

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 4:40 PM

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summer sigil Figuring out how to build the bvh is quite frustrating:/

What is exactly the problem?

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 5:15 PM

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merry laurel https://tenor.com/view/ferret-thief-steal-yoink-take-out-gif-17356971

You can I think i will open an issue to make it public

summer sigil Jan 6, 2025, 5:24 PM

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merry laurel What is exactly the problem?

Very annoying to wrap my head around which nodes contain pointers to what, and how to setup the groups

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 6:35 PM

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very fun bleakekw

small osprey Jan 6, 2025, 6:49 PM

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just copy my code forgderp1

summer sigil Jan 6, 2025, 6:51 PM

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small osprey just copy my code <:forgderp1:1322590418868637737>

Without understanding it? No thanks :p

small osprey Jan 6, 2025, 6:51 PM

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lol

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when yoinking code I find it helpful to just stare at the function I'm copying until I understand what it does KEKW

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 7:08 PM

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KEKW

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 8:10 PM

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God I love breaking changes

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No more fancy ui

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I guess its time to also use live++

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 9:02 PM

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Got it integrated but it doesnt want to hot reload

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it seems it cant find changes

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 9:33 PM

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Okay after fighting with cmake with linker flags. I have managed to load the translation units to learn thanks to daxa I cant reload my code because my pch includes it everywhere KEKW

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good riddance

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that is going to be a lot of fixing

paper ore Jan 6, 2025, 9:41 PM

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time to write your own OS

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which fixes all that : >

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 9:59 PM

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XZdKKXPRwE0lndjgbcu4RMVSRHkJLYu_/view

Google Docs

small_city.7z

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@merry laurel can you renderer render this ?

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mine without culling and shading on a rtx 4070 is at 0.2fps

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:08 PM

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north helm <@223771039648186378> can you renderer render this ?

Does it have materials?

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:08 PM

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no

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:08 PM

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then no 💀

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my asset manager will explode

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:08 PM

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id does not have uv lol

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i had to tweak my asset manager to load it

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but this looks like the ultimate test for your renderer

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:10 PM

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I will try to give it some uvs and materials so my renderer survives

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:10 PM

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i gave it 0 0 for all uvs x)

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:11 PM

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I dont even handle that

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gltf file has to have uvs otherwise boom

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Also I hope it fits into my meshlet limit of 33M meshlets

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:13 PM

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this thing is so huge that it broke entt's ecs by having too many entities x)

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:14 PM

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My current test bench has 125k to 231k entities

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So it should be fine

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:14 PM

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i dont have the count but i had to force the library to use uint64_t for entities

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:15 PM

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Oh okay then my CPU will suffer

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:15 PM

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when loading it was using 28G of ram

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and maybe some swap

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:15 PM

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I iterate over all entities twice to check if dirty

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I wanted to fix that but flecs wasn't behaving right

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:16 PM

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flecs ?

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:16 PM

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entt but better

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:16 PM

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why is it better ?

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:16 PM

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It scales better

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Generally faster

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:17 PM

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oh okay

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maybe i will change

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:17 PM

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it is bit weird to implement

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compared to entt

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:17 PM

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do you have scene graph with your ecs ?

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:18 PM

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you mean hierarchy then yes

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:18 PM

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you do you manage this ?

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:18 PM

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elaborate more?

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:18 PM

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a scene graph is not data oriented so i cant see how it can fit with an ecs

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your nodes contains only ecs ids ?

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:20 PM

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I use flecs to do some magic for me you could imagine it being database and queries same as sql select. Flecs does the heavy lifting for to be faster in data oriented paradigm

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this is cpu only

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gpu is plain data oriented

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but I have some ecs hierarchy there

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:21 PM

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so flecs provide hierarchy methods ?

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because entt is linear

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:22 PM

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yes

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yozu can ask for parent components, etc..

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:22 PM

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ooooohhhhhhh

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lets goooo

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thats so cool thank you for you advices

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:24 PM

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Now I will bully windows to give me more ram

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where is other 46GB of ram

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:24 PM

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trying to load it in blender ?

paper ore Jan 6, 2025, 10:25 PM

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you could add a static page file with fixed min=max to extend that

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:25 PM

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north helm trying to load it in blender ?

I need to fix uvs and materials

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:25 PM

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does blender have culling and optimizations to render those huge meshes ?

paper ore Jan 6, 2025, 10:25 PM

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lvstri also had a 128gb page file iirc on top of his 128gb of physical ram to export ue city hehe

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:26 PM

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i just deleted my swapfile to avoid destroying my ssd x)

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i dont know if i can still load this model

paper ore Jan 6, 2025, 10:26 PM

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you get frustum culling with addons

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:26 PM

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blender is so shitty software

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at least for these big scenes

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I am tempted to make my own blender

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:27 PM

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implement your nanite cope in a blender plugin

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:27 PM

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NO

paper ore Jan 6, 2025, 10:27 PM

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no better yet, coerce donmccurdy into rewriting the gltf import/export plugins to run natively not via python

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:28 PM

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💀

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:29 PM

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RamMap is goated software

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now my computer is actually usable

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:30 PM

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merry laurel I need to fix uvs and materials

Or I will my asset manager

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Blender was already choking on caldera

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Funny thing about caldera usda file

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It has all the LODs but blender usd support sucks and will show you the worst

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:32 PM

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ooohhh i forgor the warzone map

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i have to try it

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:32 PM

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good luck exporting it

north helm Jan 6, 2025, 10:32 PM

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do you have it ? 👉 👈 🥺

paper ore Jan 6, 2025, 10:32 PM

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yeah caldera was a pain in the ass

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:32 PM

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nope, gave up

paper ore Jan 6, 2025, 10:32 PM

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4hrs or so for the airfield piece

merry laurel Jan 6, 2025, 10:32 PM

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because how stupid blender is

paper ore Jan 6, 2025, 10:33 PM

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single threaded too 🙂

#Foundation - My adventure through Graphics Programming