#Maybe missing the point with the Remagen refresh

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

haughty crow
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Remagens problem was certainly the chokepoint nature of the bridge, but I think the biggest issue was the way points are picked at the start of a game, something which you have come up with a solution for in this update
So I do wonder why bother with the extra crossings. It might help the flow of the map sure but it kinda takes away from historical accuracy and something certainly.. unique about the map. I wouldnt have minded if it just fully went into the battle for the bridge and not bother with the other crossings. The bridge being the only middle point is what it needed in terms of gameplay rather than other crossings.
also a huge missed chance for new building assets, as the ones used in the map are simply pulled from normany and STILL have french signs and posters all over

image.png 2017A31.JPG 20545B1.JPG 20474E1.JPG
modest dock
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I also wish it could have focused entirely on the battle for the bridge. This completely ruins the original atmosphere and feel of the map.

plush sundial
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This ^

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Map was centered around the one bridge, after this change, it will be nothing special

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almost no way to hold off 3 different crossings with only 50 people

modest dock
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I feel this modification has completely stripped the map of its soul. The soul of this map lies in attacking around the bridge. Simply adding two crossing channels is no different from what's been done in Derry. Both just add two passages on either side of a bridge—only the countries are different. I think this is a regressive update.

novel osprey
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Couldn’t have put it better myself

somber radish
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Yea use missed the objective here massively . No body asked for more bridge crossings it was the one unique thing about this map. . The lag of the map is what was trash and needed fixing. Having one mid point being the bridge and only the bridge is a solid idea but two extra crossings is ridiculous. Who do u ask prior to thinking about these changes cause it surely cant be the core olayer base

ancient mural
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None of you have ever played against a player who actually knows how the artillery works and it shows.
There is a reason all kill world records came from this map and why it is not played on most community servers ever.

novel osprey
ancient mural
novel osprey
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Agreed. HLL’s gameplay and mechanics simply don’t allow the game to work at all, hence why this map needs a major overhaul and not a refresh where all they did was add two bridges that dilute the maps uniqueness and honestly don’t solve many of the issues present on the map

modern prism
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It's just a crap idea. No other statement needed.

This 'refresh' will be like the others, they will just add volumetric fog and it will be as bad as the other maps that have had it added in an effort to hide the render issues this game has.

ancient mural
haughty crow
# somber radish Yea use missed the objective here massively . No body asked for more bridge cros...

I tend to roll my eyes whenever someone says "No one asked for this" every update
but in this case, yeah I dont think I've actually seen anyone ask for more ways to cross built into the maps design
I've seen people ask for boats and amphibious vehicles
I've seen people suggest the ability to build pontoon bridges themselves
I myself has asked only for the middle point to be restricted to only the bridge itself.
This is a bit of a bummer, they're unlikely to go back on this change. Personally think they should just keep the old layout but keep the change of having the bridge be the default choice for mid point unless a server admin picks otherwise before the map starts.
The work should have gone into new building assets and expanding the urban areas more if anything

bitter ravine
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Ermagursh
For years the dominant voice of the community was "we need more crossings over the river" and now people are like "I don't like the extra crossings"??!? Give me anfing break

modest dock
somber radish
# haughty crow I tend to roll my eyes whenever someone says "No one asked for this" every updat...

Yea ripping French buildings and placing them in Germany is ridiculous. They should try and make every battle as historically accurate as possible and I highly doubt in the heat of the first battle a pontoon bridge was erected . Boats would be interesting id be for this . Paddle boats id assume . More ppl faster u get across to form a foot hold on the other bank . What made this map so unique it wasn’t like the bridge in driel which is ridiculously large for what is wastehigh water .
Ppl complaining oh recon cant counter the arty . If the recon are smart and make a b line immediately and sneak past the enemy they most certainly can get a foot hold on the other side . Or off the first air head break away and get there op up some were safe .
This just feels like instead of the what was the issue with the map it’s lag and how poorly it run they have added more elements which will probably exacerbate the fundamental issues that were why it’s not on many servers rotations of map

modest dock
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Now recon can't counter the SPA artillery, just like a helpless husband.

unborn needle
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There's definitely a valid feel of the tug of war to this map as it is and adding extra crossings does take away from this.
The upgrades to the bridge- tank cover, a width wide enough that arty/cannons doesn't have 85% coverage, and easier access to underpass are going to be great; I hate the 90 minute meat grinder where death comes from saturated fire.

I have two takes

A) the german cannon's overview advantage is going to be ridiculously overfavoured. It'll be much easier to sneak a fast tank or jeep/halftrack for the Germans than the Americans because of the hill top vantage.

B) How much of that tug of war feel remains in the map is going to be mostly dependent on the point roles.

5-center points will probably feel balanced.
5-west points or 5 east points, will still feel balanced, but also a bit sad, because it's the same as above but fighting over a less interesting bridge without an underpass. The primary crossing will feel more contested as players avoid the 2km flank
Diagonal layouts: this is where loses the tug of war feel. You'll likely see many teams' main mass of troops simply running passed each other on different bridges.

I think a single extra crossing (not two) would have been fine, and I think the American's need more vantage.

slim fog
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Remove the new crossings!

cosmic plover
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  • The pontoons have relatively safe places for MGs to shoot at the bridge, eastern one having several vehicle wrecks, and the bridge being only 350-450m away from the pontoons. A tank stopping on the pontoon to shoot enemy spawns on the bridge may be risky, but it's a new option to get them with.
  • The pontoons don't fragment the push, but support the bridge, at least by forcing enemy firepower to spread elsewhere and thus giving the bridge fighters more of a chance. Lighter tanks are more viable as they don't have to rush against heavier tanks in a single chokepoint.
  • AT guns only had to look at the bridge to stop tanks before, to achieve the same result your team would likely have to triple the amount of guns (which were nerfed by the tank rework, and tanks are much faster now too), which is unlikely to happen. German guns on the hill will have to swivel left and right more, and a position that can cover all crossings is very exposed
  • Since the underpass lets you cross the river without exposing yourself to arty or tanks on the top (it's more like a fourth bridge now), and MGs on the shores have the pontoons to worry about too, it'll be far easier to cross below.
  • The extra ground in the river also makes it easier to place an airhead protected by friendly fire from the other side. There's a few new banks that are hard for the enemy to see or reach.
  • It's much easier to rush the permanent mid with tanks now that the bridge is much wider, even if it's only a desperate measure.
  • In a casual game it's very unlikely that both teams will fill all these new gaps for an extended period of time, but it will still be tricky enough to get across.
  • May not even need to defend the pontoons if they're covered from the bridge itself
  • Since the bridge is wider, German tanks moving on the bridge could be completely obscured to US guns on the flanks since they're shooting from below. Needs testing.
haughty crow
# cosmic plover - The pontoons have relatively safe places for MGs to shoot at the bridge, easte...

I dont doubt the changes will make the map much more interesting to play so I am ultimately torn
but I wouldnt mind if it just stuck to having the one bridge with that being the core gimmick of the map being a fight over the chokepoint as I always thought the main issue was the fact the points could be on either side of the river, something which they have now changed.
The pontoons bring a lot more depth to the map sure but I would somewhat prefer the more historically accurate rendition and play off of that.

tiny siren
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All the map needed was the bridge to be wider, only having the bridge as the middle point, an update to the catwalk, and better gameplay optimization. Everything else takes away from historical accuracy and the whole point of the Remagen map, which is teamwork for a coordinated spearhead push. There were pontoon bridges built, but that was AFTER the U.S. forces already seized control of the bridge. This update could have been executed much better.

modest dock
novel osprey
bitter ravine
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Where were you all when El Alamein was made historical inaccurate?

haughty crow
cosmic plover
# bitter ravine Where were you all when El Alamein was made historical inaccurate?

where is it https://www.google.com/maps/place/El-Alamein,+Al+Alameen+City,+El+Alamein,+Marsa+Matrouh+Governorate+5060335,+Egypt/@30.8978933,28.3822367,3a,75y,230.92h,77.46t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sCIHM0ogKEICAgIDqgpvLDQ!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fgpms-cs-s%2FAFfmt2YYJ2qBKGda46beI4MQb2PBA_qMNVCGR-773kP3YwAeAjQUZccnmHEVYMwo2S61TEq5aEaGp906-TXy8jUCFeqn1B8gtEABSwkgo18_DbS78iRc-kALvFA8dK-ezWzI1IqpQOg%3Dw900-h600-k-no-pi12.535196755748231-ya162.9215114867494-ro0-fo100!7i6144!8i3072!4m6!3m5!1s0x145fedd59fffb53d:0xfddb4be6055bffa9!8m2!3d30.82247!4d28.954309!16zL20vMGZ0NDA?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDMwNC4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D****

El-Alamein · Google Maps
El-Alamein · Google Maps

Al Alameen City, El Alamein, Marsa Matrouh Governorate 5060335, Egypt

sullen plover
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New Stalingrad is more laggy than the old and PHL bushes are broken. Yay for the fixes!

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That siren can die in hole too