AGENT ORANGE

[dense panther]

I've remember a detail this game could have that any other Vietnam game did (except far cry ironically) AGENT ORANGE is something totally decorative but adding some orange clouds in some maps would be killer, orange fog

[fierce mesa]

you're aware that Agent Orange wasn't actuallly orange, right?

[dense panther]

it was, depending of the color, some of them was pink too some of them just looked like normal smoke

[fierce mesa]

What are you talking about? They all looked like normal smoke because they're air dispensed fluids just like water from a firefighter plane.
The codename was based off a coloured stripe of the BARRELS in which the Herbicide was stored/transported.

"Agent Pink is the code name for a powerful herbicide and defoliant used by the U.S. military in its herbicidal warfare program during the Vietnam War. The name comes from the pink stripe painted on the barrels to identify the contents. Largely inspired by the British use of herbicides and defoliants during the Malayan Emergency, it was one of the rainbow herbicides that included the more infamous Agent Orange. Agent Pink was only used during the early "testing" stages of the spraying program before 1964. "

From wikipedia, the same counts for all the other herbicides that were used during the War - Agent Purple, White etc. The term 'rainbow herbicide' kind of leans towards the fact that all the colours were part of a typical rainbow and NOT because the dispensed spray was actually coloured.
There are dozens of pictures on the net showing airplanes and helicopters spreading said herbicides.

and just for the record -what is the point of this suggestion at all? Agent Orange and its derivates were highly toxic and caused misery and deaths to thousands of people who were exposed to it. Not only Vietnamese soldiers and civilians but also US soldiers who had to work with these chemicals. And even to this day it causes issues due to its persistence and overall toxicity.
I really don't see why such a controverse thing should be added to the game at all. And neither would it make sense, as the usage of this was not during combat missions but long time before so the herbicides had time to impact and create the desired deforestation. Aand at that point there were no "spray fogs" left because it would have been absorbed by the plants and environment already.

[exotic pumice]

The clouds were never orange TNAT is completely fictional the color had to do with the color markings on the barrels used

[cunning mountain]

Who cares, we want it in game.

[cunning mountain]

The fact of wanting it in game has many reasons one due to historical accuracy, two due to the fact that it actually has gameplay aspects being able to deny the enemy cover as foliage. Understand your point of controversy but historical accuracy as well as gameplay factors in my opinion should Trump controversy in any game. As well, as it’s implementation could be difficult. My suggestion would be to be having it a commander only issued order that takes a few minutes to actually enact.

[exotic pumice]

These defoliants don’t work that fast the way you guys are asking it to be implemented is liek some loony toons instant kill all plants fire is the only thing that works that fast lmao, the “Orange cloud” that deletes foliage and plant life in any span of time you’d be able to experience in game is unrealistic and Hollywood

[cunning mountain]

This is a video game….. there has to be compromises

[exotic pumice]

Not the type ur looking for

Idt the devs are out to create a gimicky game based off everything I’ve seen they’d like to base it around reality

https://tenor.com/view/jerry-meme-tom-and-jerry-meme-jerry-points-get-a-load-of-this-guy-this-guy-gif-11384860625931393733

This guy

[cunning mountain]

I mean my guy u crying about a gameplay aspect in a video game that has applications to the actual game as well as the historical value of the conflict itself

I mean, if you’ve got a third arm because of the stuff I’m sorry for you but at the same point in time that doesn’t negate the fact of history as well as gameplay factors with it in itself

[exotic pumice]

Remaining close to the actual conflict is importance in any game that is replicating an actual event, I’m pretty sure you’d feel some type of way if you were playing Vietnam and then a modern abrams tank came rolling down the road acting like thibking it’s dumb to put in unrealistic or unhistorically accurate gameplay aspecrs or mechanics is crazy

[exotic pumice]

I’m sure you’d want that to happen instantly too 😂

Please bro look up how this stuff works agent Orange caused birth defects it didn’t turn people into mutants and wither everything it touched instantly

I shouldn’t have to explain this to you but I think Hollywood has its grip here 😂

[cunning mountain]

An Abram’s being compared to using defoliants in a war they were used in incompatible. Yes they were used pre conflict or even pre fob set ups is true. The timeline that they were effective is true as well. But this is a video game, one that they don’t even have to correct forces fighting ( only nva and Olga no nlf or civilian forces. Vietnam namely south was over 50% communist, against the arvn and us backed troops, witch the arvn isn’t even represented) so to be able to have a defoliant that is implemented in right way should not be out of the question.

[cunning mountain]

My grandpa was a sniper in the conflict as well as I’ve watch plenty of documentaries to know enough

He’s told me plenty of stories

[exotic pumice]

Having a defoilant as an active call in would be wholly unrealistic and has negative gameplay aspects

[cunning mountain]

Like in this game we won’t get free fire zones or even tunnel ratting

So realism isn’t even close to the reality of this game

They can’t possibly recreate the chaos of the true battle field in Nan

[fierce mesa]

dude.. It's easy to replicate teh effects of using defoliants by implementing "cleared map areas" consisting of plants and trees without leafs. That's how the herbicides worked. Spray BEFORE the actual conflict, not spray it on top your own infantry.

[exotic pumice]

Can get pretty close

And I woudlnt say tnat involves deploying agent orange like a Pokémon

[cunning mountain]

Tell that to the us forces holding a fob against a 3 battalions of Vc, that try to get as close as possible to negate that fact of us air power

[exotic pumice]

I don’t think ur getting what I’m saying

The way in whcih u saying this should be implemented is unrealistic and unnecessary to this game

[fierce mesa]

The heck ar you talking about? Napalm and Bomber/artillery support are what you're looking for in that situation. Not poison sprayed on your head...

[cunning mountain]

I want u both to watch the 2017 documentary called the Vietnam war. 18 hrs of stuff they don’t tell u anywhere else

[exotic pumice]

Oh my lord…

[cunning mountain]

They had to clear out the jungle and the perimeter somehow!!

Imagine game you’re setting up a Garrison in the middle of nowhere a jungle right next to a river. How do you end up clearing that all the trees and bushes absolutely everywhere around you there’s no way to clear that because they could be hiding anywhere so therefore, what you do is you use defoliant to clear out the kilometer around the thing so therefore, you have a completely open zone to clear out your side perimeter

[exotic pumice]

I don’t think you understand the fundamentals of this Game’s simulation and the fundamental truths of defoliants in Vietnam

[cunning mountain]

Same as they did irl, yes, said troops were nowhere in the area as well as it was multiple days beforehand, but you also have to understand. This is a video game and there has to be some type of compromises. It is a valid gameplay aspect value that has value. I agree that implementation has to be done right but you cannot negate the fact that it has an implementation nonetheless.

[fierce mesa]

"Agent Orange
defoliation was designed to be rapid, causing significant leaf drop (defoliation) within days to a few weeks after application, though the exact speed depended on plant type, weather (temp/humidity), and concentration, leading to quick canopy loss but slower tree death, with some plants showing symptoms but recovering if not re-sprayed. "

a typical HLL battle covers a few hours per day. How is spraying defoliation that at least takes some days to start working to cause instant remove plants and leaves realistic?

[cunning mountain]

It wasn’t just agent orange there were a lot of defoliants that were used. Agent orange is just the most famous for its potency as well as toxicity

[cunning mountain]

It’s a dam game, compromise. A few mins is reasonable in my opinion

[fierce mesa]

dude, they all work the same way, because the base ingredients are the same. The only difference is their dose and whether it was intended to destroy crops (which the majority was used for) or deforestation

[cunning mountain]

No they weren’t, do some research

[exotic pumice]

Tbis is not a necessary compromise, this game is not simulating setting up a firebase from start to finish it simulate combat between foes not the logistic processes of clearing foliage from an area, defoliants wouldn’t be used in an active combat zone it’s a sort of house keeping for bases and target areas

[fierce mesa]

The "Rainbow Herbicides" used in Vietnam (Orange, White, Purple, Green, Blue, Pink) were different mixtures of plant-killing chemicals, named for drum colors, primarily differing in their active ingredients like 2,4-D, 2,4,5-T, picloram, and
cacodylic acid, with the main difference being their chemical composition and target (e.g., Orange for defoliation, Blue for crops), but all containing potentially harmful dioxin (TCDD) contamination in the 2,4,5-T versions (Orange, Purple, Pink, Green) or arsenic in Agent Blue, causing widespread health issues.
Here's a breakdown of the key differences:

Agent Orange: The most famous, a 50/50 mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T; notorious for its highly toxic dioxin (TCDD) contaminant.
Agent White: A mix of 2,4-D and picloram, used for defoliation and crop destruction, water-soluble.
Agent Blue: Contained arsenic (cacodylic acid) and was used for crop destruction; applied as a powder or liquid.
Agent Purple, Green, Pink: Early formulations containing 2,4,5-T, similar to Orange but often with higher levels of dioxin contamination in earlier batches. 

Key Distinctions:

Chemical Makeup: Each agent had a unique blend of phenoxy herbicides (like 2,4-D, 2,4,5-T) or other chemicals (picloram, cacodylic acid).
Dioxin Contamination: Orange, Purple, Pink, and Green contained TCDD dioxin (from the 2,4,5-T), while Blue contained arsenic.
Application: Some were water-soluble (White), others diesel-soluble (Orange), and Blue was a powder.
Purpose: Orange & White for defoliation; Blue for crops. 

The common thread was the use of these color-coded mixtures to destroy vegetation during Operation Ranch Hand in the Vietnam War, leading to long-term health effects due to contaminants like dioxin.

[cunning mountain]

Dude in hell let loose the teams that set if a fire base that has good defenses can win based on attrition

[exotic pumice]

Yeah that has nothing to do with using defoliants that take days to show effect

[cunning mountain]

I’ve done it multiple times, preferably at the church being able to set up multiple different barricades and bunkers with machine gun fire, as well as Barbwire to negate the enemies advance to the OBJ

[cunning mountain]

Has everything to do with the foliates because foliation means the fact of not being able to see where the enemy is coming from a defoliation means being able to deny the enemy pushing advance cover what are you talking about?

[fierce mesa]

Lucid instead of continously writing nonsense read that post instead.

[cunning mountain]

Bunch of nva sympathizers I’m talking to

[exotic pumice]

What is this word salad I’m reading 😭

[cunning mountain]

Get out of here ya dirty commie

[exotic pumice]

I think you need to watch a video or something about the realistic timeline and realistic uses of defoliants like agent orange

Games in HLL last like a maximum 3 hours

Agent orange takes days to work

[cunning mountain]

Think you need to understand your not irl in a war your playn a dam game you want reality go to Ukraine

[exotic pumice]

And it would not be sprayed in an active combat zone like HLL simulates

[exotic pumice]

Tanks also don’t fly and ramp off things

I think you need to reevaluate ur position on videogames vs real life

[cunning mountain]

U want reality either enlist or stfu

[exotic pumice]

There’s a difference between unrealistic gameplay applications and simulation

[exotic pumice]

I don’t appreciate you trying to misrepresent what I’m saying

[cunning mountain]

We play games to have fun not be some internet history realist warrior

[exotic pumice]

Also ad hominem ur way through this whole convo 💀

[exotic pumice]

Devs should def implement nukes too

Cuz it’s cool

[cunning mountain]

Because that was used during the war right?

[exotic pumice]

Ooo and maybe like a POW camp in the middle of the battlefield

Cuz those existed

So we should have em in the game

Also should have b52 bombing run that just wiped out the entire map lol

[cunning mountain]

Tbh 100% even tho squishies will get sensitive, it was a fact

[exotic pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/talking-to-a-wall-gif-9702424950693960694

[cunning mountain]

Again rolling thunder was a thing, we should def hear the bombs that were hitting the ho chi min in the r background the whole time

[exotic pumice]

Yup no issue with that at all 😎😀

[cunning mountain]

Do some research

[exotic pumice]

We should also hear the horns of the ships in the sea at all times too

[cunning mountain]

Educate yourself asap

[exotic pumice]

We should also be able to play as Macvsog and navy seals I think

[cunning mountain]

Yes I agree the us blockade of commie whip supply the nva should

[cunning mountain]

Only if it the tet offensive, which should be in game

[exotic pumice]

Yeh I wanna be able to hear the bombs on the HCM trail and the ships horns at the same time

It’ll be like a perfect sphere of immersion and fun

[cunning mountain]

Only in II core

[exotic pumice]

Uhh yeah Macvsog and tet def go together in brain that makes sense

[cunning mountain]

Macvaog was based in Hanoi

That was part of tet

[exotic pumice]

Yeah I remember the Macvsog Hq in Hanoi

[cunning mountain]

Again do some research my guys

[exotic pumice]

That was my favorite part of black ops

Attacking Hanoi

[cunning mountain]

Saigon mb

[exotic pumice]

Naw it was def Hanoi like you said

[cunning mountain]

Misremembered for a min

[exotic pumice]

Seem to be doing a lot of that in here

I also think there should be banzai charges and samurai swords

There’s gotta be a few of those left over from ww2 Japanese occupation

Maybe even a lunge mine

[cunning mountain]

Banzai I agree, but not all the way like ww2

[fierce mesa]

and on US side one squad member model is changed to Rambo and he has to capture the prisoners from behind enemy lines - and if he succeeds all NVA bases are bombarded by B-52 LOL

[exotic pumice]

Yeah banzai and I can wear those red sun headbands

[cunning mountain]

Rage bait on ur time nub

[exotic pumice]

And burst through the orange smoke of agent orange and kill the GI

Jump down from a tree type shii

[fierce mesa]

also with radio music fortunate son in the background

[exotic pumice]

Rambo head an is a must

With the minugun too

[cunning mountain]

More like jump out of a trench built for a squad

[exotic pumice]

Naw should be able to jump from a tree

Trench is unrealistic

[cunning mountain]

With a foliage door hatch

[exotic pumice]

Why woudk I? A Vietcong jump from a trench

VC live in trees

Everyone knows that

[cunning mountain]

Live in the bush

[exotic pumice]

Do ur research

[cunning mountain]

Why u should’ve defoliate that bush

[exotic pumice]

VC lived only in trees or in the tunnels

Nowhere else

[cunning mountain]

Lollll

[exotic pumice]

Not bush

Tree or tunnel

Goddd

[cunning mountain]

Lolll

[exotic pumice]

Do ur research my guy

[cunning mountain]

Don’t need to

I talk to my grandpa

[exotic pumice]

Clearly you do

[exotic pumice]

Did ur grandpa tell you about the time they used agent Orange to kill the plants around VC and then they shot em?

[fierce mesa]

was about to write the same question 😄

[cunning mountain]

Oh yeah for sure my guy trump was there jerking it aswell

[exotic pumice]

Ayo?

Wth

[cunning mountain]

Again it’s a dam game

[exotic pumice]

U just made it weird

[cunning mountain]

There has to be compromise

[exotic pumice]

I think bros got something going on up top

[fierce mesa]

the point is that there is no reason for a compromise because deforestation can be included in the map by default adn that is way more accurate and realistic than any kind of chemical warfate.

what you're looking for is Napalm and Artillery actively destroying parts of the map/forests/bushes

[cunning mountain]

I’m for christs sake you guys want it to be realistic as possible get over yourselves it a video game

[exotic pumice]

My uncle told me same story, there he was in his boat when he radiod out for agent Orange big plane came in and dropped it on the jungle made all the plants dissapear and revealed a bunch of VC in there started running around like ants and he shot em all up with his gun

[cunning mountain]

Defoliants were a part of the war and they played a major part in tactics. The fact y’all are crying says more about the fact of ur internet presence. Try to make the game better and get off your internet warrior arc

[exotic pumice]

Crying?

This is just funny

Cuz I know the devs aren’t idiots they aren’t gonna add this 😂

[cunning mountain]

I bet it is cry some more

[exotic pumice]

Lmao

RAMBOOOOOO

It’s a must have

[fierce mesa]

no because your suggestion is completely nonsense.

Defoliants were used DAYS BEFORE the combat happened that's why the map must contain areas that are defoliated already.

It's that simple. Instead of your rainbow smokes it should simply be possible to destroy vegetation with arty, tanks, airstrikes and other heavy equipment.

[cunning mountain]

This is actually something I was thinking aswell, major points and even their area should already be done. But it would be a cool commander request aswell

Again you want realism there should be a 20 player limit to us troops and 100 to the vc and there should be air that don’t listen to commands and just sit around (arvn). As well as night raids were ur sleeping and the vc charge u and slice ur throte in ur sleep. How real u want it? Want free fire zones were u just kill civ to get body count? How real u want it? Wanna be apart of the massacre of Mai lay? How realistic u want it?

[exotic pumice]

No it would not lmao

[fierce mesa]

that's not the point dude. The 'realism' in this game is based off things being overall believeable and weapons/tanks/abilities being relateable. It's not a combat simulator in an absolute sense.

E.g. Napalm Strikes being a part of the game, but it is toned down in the covered area but it's still believable that Napalm is a powerful war asset for US forces.

an unrealistic aspect would be to include nukes, which were never used in that war.

[exotic pumice]

There’s pretty simple facts of the war I think ur missing those facts lol, not everyone I everything and not everyone saw every part of the war, having defoliants that essentially acting as a sort of anti plant bombing run the way ur describing it isnjot only historically unrealistic it is science fiction. You are taking the game out of vide game historical fiction where yes there are some unrealistic things that are fine cuz its a video game and cannot be avoided like respawning and garrisons and such, but a defoilant tnat zaps plants like some sort of loony toons cartoon and can be called in by the commander is purely rediculous and unnecessary to representing an average battle in Vietnam

Contrary to how it seems you perceive the war, the reality was not companies of 100 Rambo’s with miniguns calling in agent orange to clear the path in front of them fighting off thousands of Vietcong with samurai swords and bamboo spears in rice hats

My recommendation would to scrub the Hollywood fictionalized badassery from ur brain that has caused you to romanticize the war and allow urself to think more critically and do actual research not watching 100 documentaries narrated by Michael C Hall tnat give you the “undiscovered secrets” of the war

[dense panther]

all these comments to support a lie?? hahaha THERE WERE ORANGE CLOUDS IN VIETNAM

[fierce mesa]

the small purple cloud image is from a smoke grenade that is used to mark a landing zone. The other picture most likley use something to fight a fire with. Firefighter planes drop similar looking fluids. Considering there is smoke below the airplane it might be something to drop on a fire. It also wouldn't make sense to have them drop so much stuff on a single spot.

It's also on google there are like 3 pictures that show a plane that drop coloured spray. All others are clear (see below).

So yeah... you're source is probably wrong ^^

[cunning mountain]

No one is asking for 100 Rambo’s or Nukes, wtf are you even taking about my guy. Jabbering nonsense to try to prove you point. Just looks like a child trying to backpedal

[exotic pumice]

[exotic pumice]

Tnat is almost certainly flame retardant being sprayed from that plane not agent orange

[cunning mountain]

Again no one is saying that the trees should die instant. Like a 20 min timer for the sake of gameplay makes more sence. Fact u both are so against a simple feature in a video game that would add to the gameplay factor tells me you arent anything but trolls. And I don’t feed trolls. Good day to u both. Hope you make your own Vietnam game based off total historical accuracy.

[fierce mesa]

I rather have a proper map design and actual fun gameplay elements instead of sci-fi, that's all

go play call of duty

tbh

[cunning mountain]

What do u like have nothing better in your life to do than comment on discord get a life dude

[exotic pumice]

Yup pretty much slow day at work this is making my day 😀

[cunning mountain]

Feel bad for u tbh

[exotic pumice]

Don’t

[cunning mountain]

The fact that this takes space in ur head… sadge

[exotic pumice]

I can tell ur upset iss oky

Iss just a game remember

[cunning mountain]

We good, just got back from a good raid on arc decided to check discord. And I see u 2 sad depressed historians still talkn

Bout to do another

Good day sad boys

[fierce mesa]

lol

[cunning mountain]

Enjoy your historically accurate war crimes

[exotic pumice]

You got me feeling like this guy

https://tenor.com/view/energy-vampire-colin-robinson-wampir-energetyczny-energy-vampire-gif-27564016

[cunning mountain]

Make sure you cry about having my lai in the game

It’s not historical or accurate or realistic without it

[exotic pumice]

I don’t speak these boomer terms

Da heck is a lay

[cunning mountain]

lol talkn all dis crap like u know and u don’t even know about my lai

Again do some research

[fierce mesa]

https://tenor.com/view/lays-chips-potato-chips-chips-food-junk-food-gif-17736103

he means these

I think

so he has one of those

[exotic pumice]

Are talking about My Lai?

Holy hell

U really gotta stop having these typos mid convo it makes it really hard to communicate with ur brain fog

[exotic pumice]

I’ll take one Lay ples

[fierce mesa]

oke

[cunning mountain]

Ignore these 2 trolls that don’t have anything constructive to say other than badgering people in discord. Defoliants should def be in the game as a commander order. The ability to clear out foliage as it is a major tactical advantage that has gameplay applications on the side of the us. Idgaf about color or how long it takes to have an effect we just need the gameplay affect if could provide.

[fierce mesa]

https://tenor.com/view/lays-laysvietnam-layscuumiengnhat-eating-lays-facepalm-gif-21279024

[fierce mesa]

dude, go play call of duty, there you can have drones that defoliage all the map and noone even bothers.

[cunning mountain]

Go eat some paint chips my guy

[exotic pumice]

Kinda knew it would come to this it always does with these type of opinions 😂

[cunning mountain]

Why don’t you do us all a favor and huff some agent orange yourself

[exotic pumice]

They don’t make it anymore

But we are clearly still seeing its effects rn

[fierce mesa]

ea it's like trying to play chess with a pigeon. Has no idea how to play the game and will sh*t the board eventually lol

[cunning mountain]

Over this pointless conversation hope you both get cancer have a good day

[exotic pumice]

Blud keeps eating the pieces 😩

[dense panther]

you're missing how to explain the planes

yes looks like the pink pixture is a grenade but definitely it happened orange clouds in Vietnam

a shame far cry is the only game did this beauty

[fierce mesa]

That's a screen shot from Far Cry

[fierce mesa]

those are painted pictures, not photographs either

https://openart.ai/discovery/sd-1006987973650305074

https://openart.ai/discovery/sd-1006981254496911470

https://www.reddit.com/r/farcry/comments/8q3qrs/agent_orange/

[fierce mesa]

Here you go, there's the picture in the website top frame. It's not vietnam, it's a C-130 Hercules dropping a fire retardant on a wildfire in California.
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104558/modular-airborne-fire-fighting-system/

[exotic pumice]

I think I said this above 😂 I knew exactly what it was as soon as I saw it lmao

I live in California seen a lot of fire retardant in my time

[exotic pumice]

Frank I thought you’d know better than to suggest some none historically accurate content 😪

[mortal coral]

Don’t worry, soon they will be asking for our characters to randomly die 5-15 matches later from cancer /s

[sand charm]

Go back to Jim's Vietnam.