#AT Infantry and Armour/Vehicle changes + Faction asymmetry

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harsh belfry
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So with this Update came with a huge buff for AT infantry and penetration changes for US Bazooka with that has consequences across the Vehicle gameplay.

In first edition of the Armour rework brought about Armour gaining more survivability vs AT Infantry (Reference to the picture)

The issue is now that while those changes increased TTK (Time to kill) and removing the ability for 1 AT infantry to take down a Medium on his own we've gone back to the status quo allowing a 1 manpower infinite spawning unit to once again solo a vehicle costing 200 fuel + it's cooldown to be respawned.

The impact is greater to Light and Medium vehicle gameplay, Heavy is able to withstand these changes.

Armoured Cars "Recon tanks" + Light tanks
I will start by saying that increasing health value for Armoured cars and making these able to react to an AT rocket infantry is absolutely the best way to go about it and I thank you for this change, breaking that terrible game loop of jumping into a vehicle and dying instantly without being able to react.

AT having the ability to have 3 rockets increases their success rate of destroying them even more and punishing AC/LIght Armour play further, reducing their impact on the field.

Luchs Penetration
With the 3 rocket changes and the now penetrating changes have now hit this vehicle even harder, people didn't want to use this vehicle because unlike it's counter parts had no ability to combat a medium armour, it's only edge was that Infantry couldn't easily deal with this vehicle from the front allowing it to push onto a position and suppress infantry from an area, with it's frontal armour now being able to be penned by Allied Bazooka's this thing has lost it's niche and received a huge nerf.

Mediums + Panzer IV
While TTK has increased with taking 3 hits over 2, it's reduced the need for multiple people to deal with the armour and brings about the infinite 1 man power unit killing something way above their cost, which is also easily accessible across all squads and easy to use.

**Panzer IV Penetration **
While I understand wanting to bring balance, I feel that doing this was not the right way to go and further stripping Asymmetry from the game.
Instead of doing that we could have changed the cost of Panzer IV from 200 to a 230-250 fuel cost + increase cooldown to respawn/drop.
Emphasise the premium aspects of this vehicles armour towards Bazooka's by increasing it's cost.
This way we're keeping the vehicle as it was but reducing it's spam and it's unique feature.

Heavies + Axis Heavies
TTK is still the exact same requiring 2 AT infantry to destroy it with rockets however greatly reduced survivability.

Axis Heavies
With the above changes and penetrating changes have once again changed how an AT infantry can approach the axis vehicles.
We should have kept the German faction trait and instead changes should have been
Increase cost.
Note: I have separated Tiger and Panther costs as the Panther has more mobility as a side upgrade to the Tiger
Tiger from 600 to 620/630
Panther 650 due to more mobility.

Half tracks
Half tracks were armoured vehicles designed for keeping it's occupants protected while keeping pace with armoured vehicles to support them, I was hoping the health change would allow them to survive a rocket just as the AC were however it looks like they're still 1 shot, please make these vehicles stronger and for a price of 300 fuel again weighting up the resource sink it should be able to have some counter play to infantry rockets who now also carry 3,. Which means at the cost of 1 manpower he can remove 100 fuel vehicle + 300 fuel vehicle

image.png
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Faction traits + Asymmetry

Further stripping of unique aspects to each faction have further reduced the Asymmetric gameplay, I understand balance can be hard especially when trying to make it fair for all factions however having those unique ways we approach each faction was interesting and enjoyable and made it less predictable with engagements having to play differently from multiple sides.

Having the Brits be the only Allied faction equal to the Germans penetrative capabilities with AT made for an interesting change and as limited in maps compared to US/Soviet - German maps gave it a refreshing change, I feel that this is a step back and not a change that is good. Brits and Soviets elevation for Artillery was faster than US and German, allowing to zero in much quicker is an example of this.
They're ways to offset the benefits one faction has over another costs is one of those and not limiting yourselves to specific Armour types to a one price fit's all.

Conclusion: AT Infantry as a whole having 3 rockets has now had a huge impact on the lighter vehicle game play not for the good, when you take into consideration, cooldown/spawn time, cost for a vehicle + taking time to get to the front line with the increased success rate of death from a unit that is plentiful, free and can keep pressuring armour indefinitely with relative ease, with a minimum spawn rate of 11 seconds if they're lucky and increasing penetration I feel is the wrong choice. I don't want armour to be godly beasts but at the same time we need to look at value and time of a player(s) and weight up the spawn/cost and efficiency of what's trying to kill it and what it can do in it's own performance. For example an AC being 1 shot was not a good nor enjoyable game loop.

Possible Solutions for AT infantry:

  • Increase health values for armour/vehicles again for increasing TTK
  • Spawn AT infantry with 2 rockets and have to resupply for a third
  • Rework Armour damage, adding critical points increasing frontal health
  • Reduce rockets back to 2
manic gust
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Agreed, especially in regards to the reduction of asymmetric traits for each faction. We don't want all the factions to be equal, and be a reskinned cookie cutter of each other. It should reflect real world situations and allow players to use the unique traits and advantages each faction has in specific area to overcome their downfall in others.

swift summit
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T17.... LISTEN to this man and his detailed explanation. Fix these two things asap.

worthy dove
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Bazooka+Garand also being able to pen from the front makes US AT so much better than the German in terms of overall utility against garrisons. If the Panzerschreck had a gewher we'd probably get outcry much sooner about how OP it is

manic kindle
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I like the idea of having German tanks superior to other ones but let's increase their cost or reduce cost for allied forced. They could keep their unique traits but you would see less of them or 2v1 situations.

harsh belfry
harsh belfry
violet sail
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Good points OP

swift summit
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Also important to notice is that although Bazookas can't pen HULL from the front or side, they can do damage to the TRACKS from those angles. So they still deliver damage, for slowing down a tank is the first step to running around it for engine shots or for a satchel attempt. So Bazookas as they were pre U19 were not "useless" as some other individuals are counter arguing.

blazing peak
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Totally agree with most points.
Especially annoying that infantry have 3 AT now.
It's more likely than ever for them to destroy a heavy engine as well since missing one rocket isn't a big deal.
It's even worse for competitive play because of garrison snipes and the fact that Axis only use a tiger for comp games which is a step down from the 76 any day of the week.
So they buff the pen for the bazooka give it 3 rockets and they have the M1 garand? While Axis need to use a bolt action? It just makes the US side superior to Axis in almost every way possible.
Hope they bring it back to the way it was asap.

quiet mantle
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Why its always tank players who cry ”WE NEED MORE BUFF SNIFF SNIFF AT CAN NOW KILL ME BOOHOO” crying out loud.
Leave that aspect of the game as it is now, tanks can be destroyd and 3 rockets are good, and fix real problems, no need to be taking it up the pipe just for tank players only

blazing peak
harsh belfry
# quiet mantle Why its always tank players who cry ”WE NEED MORE BUFF SNIFF SNIFF AT CAN NOW KI...

I'm not entirely sure you read my post, my most played roles are Commander/SL which is Infantry.

I've made multiple points about why this is a bad change and even discussed increasing costs and cooldown for vehicles that are harder to kill, I would also say with the change of the Armoured car that it's price is increased to 130/150 now to reduce it's spam as it's performance in the game has scaled massively now that it can't die in one rocket, which is still the best decision for this vehicle.

Make your point as to why a vehicle that is locked behind a resource cost, timer and cooldown can not have increased survivability vs something that costs nothing and can keep respawning within 20-30 seconds, has the ability to hide and track armour by their loud sound presence?

swift summit
wet cloud
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US having the same values as axis AT is balanced

mystic vigil
# wet cloud US having the same values as axis AT is balanced

US AT have a better gun.
US satchel have shotgun.
The Stuart is much better than luch.
The US medium tank has smoke shells for cover against long-range rocket fire no PZ4.
The US rocket launcher was supposedly modified to bring all AT to the same level, but the PIAT wasn't modified in the other direction.

wet cloud
# mystic vigil US AT have a better gun. US satchel have shotgun. The Stuart is much better than...

The axis assault has the STG
The sniper has the FG
The auto rifle has an STG as well
Their rifleman has 10 rounds to the US 8
The MG42 is better than the M1919
The spotter has a Kar which is better than the carbine.
Axis AT still has longer range than the US.

Axis has always been the stronger faction this just means that axis tanks can no longer be invincible by just reversing into a wall.

If you think this is an issue it’s a you problem not a balance one

wet cloud
harsh belfry
# wet cloud The axis assault has the STG The sniper has the FG The auto rifle has an STG as ...

Carbine in close quarters is still better than a Kar and vice versa for long range, Every piece of equipment has different benefits and downsides.

The point of the game is to be Asymmetrical which the Devs have said they want to emphasise on and the issue with the current game and it's economy is that it's for most part standard price for all vehicles in each of their own category as opposed to what that vehicle is, Instead of nerfing something, simply increase it's cost and it's cooldown all of this can delay getting the vehicles.

Not all factions operate the exact same using different doctrines..
Having different ways a faction must approach another is more engaging and unique experience for when you're playing them or against them and this is a game after all.

US AT Infantry are actually better at closing in on a tank surrounded by friendly infantry and able to position themselves behind a tank then a bolt action and able to quickly pick off multiple targets faster than a Kar98 user.

Shermans due to having weaker frontal armour have Utility to compensate for that, only issue is Smoke discharge takes long to load and is often overlooked due to that, they also should never be able to be destroyed from the front by a single AT guy, with 2 rockets and now back to 1 Manpower soloing tanks again due to the third rocket, but with that they've now stripped the Axis Faction trait which has stripped a lot of that Asymmetry gameplay while leaving oddities in their line-up for example a Luchs that can't kill mediums but a Stuart can, which ends up going against the point of this change.

Rather than diminishing the unique aspect to factions, tweaks can be made to offset these differences, less expensive tanks for US, more expensive tanks for Germans, British costs can match that of the Germans as their basically 1 for 1 with them as they share German Pen capabilities, of course they did have the only TD in the game which if I'm hearing correctly has been nerfed as well, it used to be a 6 second reload for it's main cannon but now on the same time as every other heavy with reduced Anti infantry capabilities having only the gunner have a co-axial, which the price should have been altered for that as well, let's not copy pasta every vehicle otherwise we're going to be reducing the overall gameplay engagement for players.

wet cloud
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Holy skill issue

harsh belfry
wet cloud
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there's no point in debating you when you clearly have no concept of reality

harsh belfry
formal bloom
# wet cloud The axis assault has the STG The sniper has the FG The auto rifle has an STG as ...

We're talking about changes to AT and you said "US having the same values as axis AT is balanced" but now you just replied and started listing off literally every single other class other than AT, except the fact that they have longer range (which is only apparent like 400m and longer), thinking that that is going to help you.

Addressing the one point you made on Axis tanks that they "can no longer be invincible by reversing into a wall" doesn't make sense as bazooka's still can't pen the sides of Axis Medium+ tanks (as it was before this update ||https://www.reddit.com/r/HellLetLoose/comments/18ra7bw/for_all_those_hungry_new_players_looking_to_get/||). They still are "technically" invincible but there are other tanks which can kill them and 3 different classes with satchels. The only thing they do by reversing into a wall is signing their death sentence.

The POINT of this feedback is discussing AT Infantry and how it relates to tanks. Before this update:

  • German AT wasn't able to destroy a tank from the front with 1 person
  • Allied AT wasn't able to destroy Axis tanks solo (from the back)

Now those 2 things are possible. This makes the Allied Medium tank incredibly weak as they can't even survive a single German AT and the Axis Medium can't survive 1 AT guy as well. The reason Team17 pushed out the buffed tank HP changes was to increase the TTK of tanks but now it only adds another 2-3 seconds of TTK instead of the original 5+ seconds it takes to fall back, get resupplied (if you have a support with you), and get the tank in your sights again.

The point that @harsh belfry is trying to make is that (I'm paraphrasing):

  1. Increasing the amount of rockets is not a good change unless they compensate it with some other way.
  2. This makes light tanks, recon tanks, halftracks, and vehicles now CONSIDERABLY easier to kill and deal with which reduces their utility and impact on the field.
  3. The resources you lose and time spent away from the field from being killed is too high at this point in the game with how buffed AT is as a whole
formal bloom
wet cloud
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the lights etc dont really matter, recons and halftracks were always one shot

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all this does is mean both sides mediums are now killable

formal bloom
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Allied Mediums, as a result of this patch, have tremendously lost their value in being an actual tank

cobalt canopy
cobalt canopy
quiet mantle
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Just played a match, axis tanks one after another pops up to field, gets destroyed rinse and repeat and even as it might seem too easy to get rid of them, it aint if they and their inf know how to play. Tanks are supposed to work together with infantry, but every single post about tanks and AT are just useless whining from tank players wanting to be demigods on the field, not the poor SOB’s that get a fiery death as they really were🤷🏼‍♂️ but sure, dont handle the truth that its just useless whining, ofc im in the wrong here, the 3 rockets its just too Damn much for a tank and near by inf to handle, as it doesnt f set of a clear f trail that reveals the AT’s location and that surely doesnt make him a easy target 🤣

flat flame
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allies AT has always been able to front pen a luchs with the boozka it was just a harder shot and impossible to hit at range

cinder nexus
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they've made the medium into a light ( can be pen by rocket 360, 30km/h flanker), Heavy into a medium (only front can tank at shots, 22-24 km/h), while the cost of fuel stays the same.

This means that armour is Nerfed terribly.

dusky pulsar
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I swear the clowns who think it’s a “skill issue” about armor complaining about OP ATs when their the ones who have a “skill issue” not being able to take out armor with 2 rockets and no consequences with a minor 20second respawn to finish the job. ATs are the ones with a skill issue that cried for 3 rockets and still can’t do their job.

swift summit
dusky pulsar
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What excellent post especially for some who’s not a dedicated tanker and clearly sees the problems.

I think another suggestion if they want to keep the 3 rockets; just cut a 100 fuel off every vehicle in the game for a counter-balance for resources.

violet sail
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Yeah they definitely need to revist the armor/at.

buoyant plume
# quiet mantle Why its always tank players who cry ”WE NEED MORE BUFF SNIFF SNIFF AT CAN NOW KI...

Tankers were having too much fun running over any lobby outside of a comp match and they already miss that experience.

While I do agree USA bazooka shouldnt pen like a Panzershreck. The health of two shots shouldve stayed where it was. Or the speeds/environment traversal capability of the tanks shouldve stayed where they were.

The medium is only 50 fuel more than a light and a light takes 2 rockets. Mathematically thats a fair trade off since a medium could side pen heavies while lights could not. That doesnt justify forcing a 3rd rocket to take out a medium tank when you only had 2.

WW2 had battles of hundreds of thousands of soldiers fighting. We are 50v50. Yes a good solo anti tanker should absolutely be able to take out a medium tank solo without re-deploy/ammo refill. Not enough blues carry explosive ammo and there's not enough AT that actually know what they're doing.

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Not to mention, its not even a feature of the game, but the amount of rockets ive put into the weak side of tanks that explode into a 4th of July firework instead of penetrating is ridiculous.

lethal blaze
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one of the things I think that makes AT tricky to balance is just how many there can be on one team. A good solution imo is to split AT into their own squads so they can prioritise tank hunting and makes room for finer balancing I hate to plug my own suggestion here but I did this today
#1448306088670789763 Anti tank as a whole I think should be different on some maps, north africa and eastern front should consist of mostly AT rifles and AT emplacements. This would require adding an AT gun for germans and removing the launchers from those maps which could be easily done with an eastern front subfaction. Some AT grenades could be a nice addition too to even it out about

dusky pulsar
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Typical console players chiming in about armor being OP; seems like a skill issue.

meager perch
dusky pulsar
# buoyant plume Tankers were having too much fun running over any lobby outside of a comp match ...

How dense can infantry be; AT players literally have no consequences for death and only have 20seconds for a respawn to have full ammo.... Armor crews have LIMITED amount of resources and on top of that a minimum of 5 mins for tank to be spawn and then even on top of that to drive back to frontlines; Armor should of the capability to survive from more than 1 AT guy. When WE run out of AMMO, we have to spend 10mins of driving back resupplying and drive back to frontlines. Yall literally have ZERO CONSEQUENCES for RESOURCES besides a 20 second respawn and that's breaking your morale while between at most 6 crews spilt FUEL resources. "TaNkERs wErE hAvInG tOo mUIcH fUn rUnNiNg oVeR aAy LoBbY" Buddy it takes way more skill to coordinate with two other players in armor than a commando blueberry with a potato gun that points n clicks. If your letting Armor stomp around in your game thats a skill issue; Yall have AT guns, AT Launchers and Delivery box boys in every squad. Armor is out numbered about 8 to 1 on AT alone which doesn't include the enemy armor or Delivery Box boys. So please for the love of god If you don't know what your talking about then best thing to do is be quiet.

buoyant plume
# dusky pulsar How dense can infantry be; AT players literally have no consequences for death a...

No consequences? If we fail at doing our job then you're spending the next ten minutes sitting cozy next to a repair station surrounded by your own infantry planting HE over any avenue of approach we try to take to get to you.

Even if we are successful in an ambush, we have to more than likely re-deploy and spend the same amount of time going back to said decent spot and thats only assuming our flanking spawns are still up.

Now lets talk about what y'all had prior to update 18.

1.) Varied scoped optics
2.) Increased speeds
3.) Y'all are already armored
4.) HE rounds capable of taking us out from around corners.

Lets not forget that splashing a wall next to you does nothing to your crew but will wipe out everyone else thats close.

AT guns? Thats cute. Its not like those aren't a 1 hit erase button with any type of ammo.

"Oh but when we run out of ammo."

Oh woe is you, your crew is 125 kills with 7 vehicles destroyed with zero deaths and you have to spend 10 minutes driving back to get more ammo. What a miserable gaming life that is. 🙄

But go on, tell me more about how the 4 other squads of levels 100 and under have a plethora of explosive ammo boxes for us to polish off tanks. Ill wait to see how AT is so much more advantaged.

dusky pulsar
# buoyant plume No consequences? If we fail at doing our job then you're spending the next ten m...

Yes, Yall have no consequences, Oh im sorry; Do you guys run out of Rocket Launchers when other ATs die? Lmfao, Im anywhere besides around friendly infantry since if your around them then theres enemy infantry in the area. I've died more times being surrounded by friendlies than being out away from them; sorry I'm not you're typical smooth brain Armor crew. Stop running straight at the enemy armor; like i stated above yall outnumber us 8-1 just AT alone. How much do you guys need to take down a single tank? It still way less time it takes us to drive back to base and resupply and drive back to frontlines then yall spawning on a garri or OP near by. Prior U18? Armor didnt have increase speed prior to U18; U18 was the speed increase which was well indeed for armor. Cool we have optics to see from a far; Maybe stay low? Yes. we are armored but its 3 of us coordinating in a steel box which takes a lot of skill to do then like i stated before a commando blue berry with a potato gun that all he needs to do is learn to aim. AT GUNS are OP they have faster reloads than mediums n heavys and position right they will kill armor without a problem cause i used to do it. lol, typical infantry bringing up about kills when in fact the game doesn't evolve around kills since there is no "tickets" system or consequences for dying. So why do kills matter so much to you; the whole premise of the game is to capture points til you reach the enemy HQ. AT is at a huge advantage; the capability to snipe garris n OPs up to 700m away and kill armor. Like stated before a Single guy shouldn't be able to kill 1 enemy armor; Armor gets a major buff and instantly nerfs it the next next patch is pathetic. I thought this game was about teamwork; I don't like the change where we have our own supply box or the ability build our own repair stations. Its taking away from the core of the game of working together. Like yall should do to take out enemy armor.

buoyant plume
# dusky pulsar Yes, Yall have no consequences, Oh im sorry; Do you guys run out of Rocket Launc...

Hold up 😂😂😂 so much to use here.

For starters. You just admitted to not playing being around friendly infantry and are somehow upset that enemy AT get the jump on you??? Well no crap 🤣😂 what do you think is gonna happen?

Which leads into the next part. So youre aware that the team play generally sucks...and yet somehow you think it's all roses and dandelions for AT? ARE YOU SERIOUS?! 🤣😂🤣😂 even if there is 6 AT on the field for your side, youre lucky if half are aware they're AT, 1 plants rockets into the tracks of tanks while youre trying to satchel. And the other AT guy that actually does know what theyre doing has to cover the other direction 🤣😂

And yes. There was speed boosts prior to 18. Because infantry, other than that horried speed boost update, used to at least keep pace with heavy tanks. And prior to 18 heavy tanks were already enlarging the distance. Update 18 was simply the fast and the furious update that saw P4s running around like M1 Abrams. Yes it needed a nerf.

Which also leads into the hilarious part of you preaching about teamwork, and yet talked about earlier not practicing teamwork.

I personally think too many people are thinking the teamwork in this game has to be band of brothers. One guy fires bazooka while another loads type crap. But its not. HLL does more than most FPS out there. But end the day. The teamwork is this.

"Hey guys, you guys go attack the point. Im going to go make sure tanks dont get to the point and blow you guys up."

And its going to be up to the SL to make sure that his squad can spawn. Which may or may not require someone as support sticking by HIM so they can secretly build a garrison which removes the support for the AT.

And to wrap it all up. Again even if we get the drop on y'all because its a map like Hurtgen. Again it's not like y'all cant just simply swivel and blast the tree next to you killing the AT guy. And even IF he got the satchel on. 3 of y'all removing it is all that requires.

dusky pulsar
# buoyant plume Hold up 😂😂😂 so much to use here. For starters. You just admitted to not pla...

I think you need to re-read my post, because I clearly said I have played with friendlies and without, and I die far more being around friendlies. I never said it's all "roses and dandelions" for AT, but that whatever troubles AT has armor has it far worse because if AT has a bad game they aren't inherently suffering the same way armor does. If armor has a bad game, they might not get another tank, either by their failings or something outside of their control like another crew asking for a heavy every 10 minutes after dying to AT on repeat. And if they do die they have to drive back to the front every time. AT has what, an at worst 20 second respawn? It's also not just AT that outnumber tanks, it's everyone in general, as engineer and assault can also have satchels leading to literally half of every team potentially being able to kill tanks if they are playing well.

No, there weren't any speed boots. If anything there were speed nerfs, as before the 1.0 update the Panther used to go faster than the Medium Sherman. The only speed increase was the update 18 general speed increase for all tanks, which was promptly reverted. They didn't even let LIGHT TANKS keep their speed, because god forbid light tanks be fast I guess?

No, it's more of when you think of "teamwork" it's how you're all sticking together as a squad and supporting each other, so your support is never far away to drop you things you might need. After all, if you're just separating from your squad how exactly are you going to support the tanks you claim to support?

Sure, we'll just swivel and kill the AT guy, but we've just taken a hit and you'll respawn at the OP. So once again, no consequences. And if you get a satchel off on a tank it's over for the tank in 9/10 situations, because they have to get out almost immediately to defuse it, while standing completely still. Which again, if you aren't just running off alone, placing it and dying, is almost impossible to do since you'll just have one of your squad-mates shoot the crew.

quiet mantle
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Tankers speaking like their role and temworking is hard lol its the easiest role in the game oh my goodness 🤣
No wonder they crying. Every tank player should go play world of tanks as long as they have that kind of attitude in a game where teamwork is the most valuable asset. If 3 rockets on one AT are too much, your metal cabinet full of joyful joy between crew members is doing something wrong. Where is your inf support? Why you ain helping inf and why you driven to a hill alone to get kills as if those kills are your only goal? No, its about coordinating with your team and cap points. The tanks still have ridiculous amounts of advantage, but bc they are not the demigods they wish they were, you guys keep crying about it. Just for once could you guys just zip it, and try to play as a part of the team and not act like every thing should revolve around your wishes.

blissful arch
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I think the point being here is… what’s the point in bringing out U18 to make the medium a more viable tank then U19 give AT 3 rockets?

Might as well erase the last 2 updates and go back to U17 😂

manic kindle
buoyant plume
# dusky pulsar I think you need to re-read my post, because I clearly said I have played with f...

Right there clear as day you stated you dont like being around friendly infantry 🤣

Ummm duh? Armor was limited in real war. Infantry not so much. If AT is having a bad day then enemy armor is having a jolly time and I havent met anyone that enjoys looking at the deployment screen for copious amounts of gaming time or just running for hundreds of meters because enemy tanks and recon destroyed all the spawns. And when you think you made progress a random enemy infantry guy pops you and forces you to restart the whole run all over again.

But lets look at the facts that battle of the bulge itself saw Germans attack with 1400 pieces of armor..and 400,000 infantry well no crap youre gonna see way more infantry in ww2 games. The game gives us a limited 50 v 50 scale and just because its possible to get up to 6 tanks deployed doesn't mean that every match should. It already took team effort to take down heavies before the update, and now when you make mediums which cost 400 less than heavies, also require the same effort , you get matches just spam full of armor where one side dominates and the other cant do anything. Not sure what pc saw but many matches on console its crews in mediums and heavies just doing doughnuts in a field obliterating everyone as AT tries to get rocket shots in. And every 3rd rocket that even hits the weak side of a tank non-pens anyways cause the game infrastructure sucks plus they messed up hit boxes.

And while yes, game is based around team play to take an objective. You are playing roles In this game for a reason. However kill stats for some roles are in fact important. For example AT. If AT finishes with zero vehicles destroyed, theyre not being a very good AT are they? Just like a medic with 4 revives but 60 kills isn't being a good medic, they should just play rifleman. With the scale of this game AT does matter of fact need to drift away from the squad to go get tanks especially if a tank is not at the objective. If 3 people are drawing away 8 enemy infantry from being cap pressure, thats a win for armor ain't it? Gotta play the game smarter than that.

Screenshot_20251210_194421_Discord.jpg
dusky pulsar
# buoyant plume Right there clear as day you stated you dont like being around friendly infantry...

Yes, I said there clear as day that I have played with and without infantry support, and why I don't like being around them: Being next to blueberries is a death sentence. It's why I stopped being around them, and once I did my survivability skyrocketed (pardon the pun)

And it's not fun waiting in HQ for a tank or spending 5 minutes driving to the frontline either, but how is a tank just driving around your backline destroying your spawns? I thought tanks needed to have infantry support, which they clearly aren't getting in your backup sectors. Also just sounds like you're failing to defend your spawns, which considering infantry set the pace of the game, tanks are going to suffer just as much, because without spawns they have no infantry support, which is something tanks require, right?

Please don't start a realism argument, you don't want this. Because here's a "fact": The overwhelming majority of tanks destroyed in WW2 were by anti tank guns, not handheld launchers. Speaking of, I see you completely forgot those even existed, even though they can frontally penetrate every single tank in the game. Almost like AT players just want to play HLL like Engineer in Battlefield and lob rockets at the tank instead of adapting and using the tools they have.

stray tide
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The devs have always said they want and promote team play, now with this update of anti tank getting getting 3 rockets defeats the object of needing a support player to drop ammo for the resupply of the 3rd to finish off a tank. The previous update was greatly received to tankers to be able to survive longer from anti tank. Why update armour, then next update give more rockets it's unbelievable, what the next update more armour. All the above comments from other players are all valid please read and fix.

Also who asked for more rockets, no one.

Who asked for tanks to be stronger, everyone.

buoyant plume
# dusky pulsar Yes, I said there clear as day that I have played with and without infantry supp...

Guess what also isn't fun? Getting blown away by tanks you cant reach.

That exact fear and boredom of needing to wait spawn timer for a tank and driving back up to the front was the exact thing that made tankers take better care of their tanks and actually operate within combined arms fashion in the game.

Post update 18 and before the boost to rockets. Tankers had little to no reason to fear anything. You got to outrun everyone's satchels. Low probability of actually getting your engine taken out. The rare moment you actually got on the backside of a tank where the rockets could pen. Game decides one of your rockets is a dud.

Should you actually take damage, you got to outrace literally everything to repair and then get back to running rampant behind the lines again as rockets again continue to fly in. Now with the 3 rockets, while again I wouldve preferred two and restoring pre-18 health damage of tanks, at least tankers have something to be wary of again and work more with their own infantry.

And there is no "defending your spawn" when a medium tank rolls up that not only you cant front pen, needs 3 rockets to blow up and you only have 2. LETS EVEN ASSUME you get both rockets successfully in the back. You need a perfect world that someone with explosive ammo unlocked already laid out a box for you to refill. And thats assuming the TC isn't relaying your position.

Do you have any idea how many perfect world factors that has to be just to counter a medium MEDIUM tank pre-hotfix?

Same goes for AT guns. I have to have someone readily responding to comms, willing to reload for me, and I have to set up hoping you didn't spot a green silhouette going up in a position where I have to hope my 2x scope can see your butt sooner than your 8x scope sees mine.

And if I dont have a reloader? Now we visit the fact im a much slower reload time. And im still super squishy. Assuming the game is working the way it is and not having a moment where no body shots decides to pen.

buoyant plume
# stray tide The devs have always said they want and promote team play, now with this update ...

The object of having a support player drop explosive ammo for a resupply is so the AT guy can go fight another tank. If your squad is the only squad that possesses an AT guy that knows how to AT then you want him fighting more tanks not needing to have to resupply him for just 1 tank. Then force the support guy to switch to another class and force another to switch to support to reload the AT so he can fight another tank. Thats a grevious amount of effort.

And yeah, I'm sure tankers well received having more health. I too would love it if I could survive more lethal rounds in a video game while my class counter did not.

Im sure everyone who AT wouldve loved getting 4 rockets to do their thing. But none of us are asking for that because we know it'd break gameplay.

dusky pulsar
# buoyant plume Guess what also isn't fun? Getting blown away by tanks you cant reach. That ex...

No, that exact fear and boredom is making tankers do the exact opposite. Being next to friendlies means being next to enemies. Being next to enemies means danger. Being next to enemies when you just had your survivability decreased and their lethality increased means even more danger. Being far away from enemies is less dangerous. Therefore, tankers are incentivized to stay far from friendlies and play cautiously and conservatively.

Ah, you've blown the entire argument infantry use wide open. You say it's hard to coordinate with a single guy to reload your AT gun, while telling tanks they need to coordinate with entire squads? How do you think it works out for tanks if getting one guy to help YOU is difficult when WE apparently according to you need entire squads?

If you thought destroying that pesky backline harrassing tank was hard before, just imagine how you'll feel when more and more crews feel that is their only option, because as you've just said, coordinating with friendly infantry is a gamble, one they are going to increasingly refuse to take.

velvet tiger
harsh belfry
# buoyant plume Guess what also isn't fun? Getting blown away by tanks you cant reach. That ex...

Not even comparable, you're literally putting 1 man power cost dying to a 3 manpower + fuel + cooldown timer.

The costs outweigh that one man. If you've ever tried to use Armoured cars in the past before the health update, driving out to be instantly 1 shot by a bazooka was not fun, it wasn't engaging and then if you wanted another it would cost 100 fuel and cooldown timer to only be 1 hit again. That gameplay loop isn't fun and as for you talking about supports are there to resupply an AT to go kill another tank on his own, that's not how it should work. They should work in tandem to kill A tank.

An AT infantry isn't supposed to be a counter it's supposed to be a deterrent and keep pressure on vehicles to not be able to sit around and do as it pleases when harassing infantry, it should require 2 AT infantry or a support to follow up getting a kill on a vehicle. If you can't understand that simple concept of balance then I'm not sure what to say. This is a game after all and having infantry constantly returning while able to keep pressure up to instantly kill you on their own is not an enjoyable experience no matter what you say.

buoyant plume
# dusky pulsar No, that exact fear and boredom is making tankers do the exact opposite. Being n...

Lethality increased? Its just balanced. We're still less deadly than prior to update 18 😂 meanwhile tanks still have their instant delete called HE even gotten buffed. They're faster. Turret turn speeds increased. You could restore the game to two rockets for medium and AT gets two rockets and the tanks are STILL way more deadly than needs to be.

And no tanks dont need whole squads. All it takes is 1 single dude, no matter the level or class, hiding in a bush or a window watching over the backside of the tank to stop AT from harassing a tank.

Like your main excuse at hand, is a blueberry issue not a game issue. So join the club. Just because a good player is cutting through your friendlies or ambushing you while far away from the point isnt an issue with the game mechanics.

Go join a clan if you need people who listen to your requests for security on your tank. Otherwise thats just the state of the game. Pub lobbies full of one side that doesn't grasp the concept of defense or more than 1 garrison to attack a point.

Tanks are a limited resource in war. Want more tanks? Go play World of Tanks. Or Warthunder. Otherwise if youre trying combined arms and dying to enemy infantry, thats a teams fault not a game fault.

buoyant plume
# harsh belfry Not even comparable, you're literally putting 1 man power cost dying to a 3 manp...

Vehicles in war are a limited resource you shouldnt be burning through them anyways.

And youre talking about recon tanks? Yeah ive rocket sniped more than my fair share. They're called RECONNAISSANCE tanks as is. They're not meant as main battle tanks. You should be behind lines dropping radar pings and sabotage.

And yes, theyre meant as a counter not as a deterrent. If my side doesn't have anyone wanting to run armor, WTF are we supposed to do against tanks sitting on a point surrounded by enemy infantry? Deter them from driving away from the point we have to capture? Lot of good that does us.

Maybe we can deter them from using coax on our garrison spawn and use HE instead.

Y'all keep forgetting at the end of the day, its a game of 50v50. Not 300,00v400,000. You have to account for the ratio that battles had way more infantry than tanks. And if you super power tanks without balancing it with AT then youre going to get matches of one side or the other just having tanks come in and whoop whoever has the lesser crews while infantry get murdered.

Maybe you lose a tank, well there's 1000 fuel still in commanders backup plus a free default.

harsh belfry
buoyant plume
dusky pulsar
# buoyant plume Lethality increased? Its just balanced. We're still less deadly than prior to up...

Yes, when you increase the amount of rockets AT gets and increase their penetration, lethality is increased. Even if you think it's "balanced" you cannot even admit that AT is more lethal now, it's wild. "All it takes is one dude" he says, after just admitting that he can't even get one dude to help him load his AT gun. It's so bad that you're telling me to "join a clan" just to get a single guy to "support" my tank, which you also say is mandatory for tanks to even be playable? Wow, it's almost like you've just proven my point that being around friendlies for support is a waste of time and instead armor should be as far away from the team as they can.

You're right, tanks are limited in war. You know what is also limited? Manpower. Except infantry have no limit and don't have any consequences for dying. All of the problems with pubs you describe can be entirely pinned on the fact that the game itself encourages that by having no downsides to discourage that behavior. Unlike games that have a ticket system, for instance. Infantry cannot be expected to handle consequences. Just hold W towards the strongpoint.

buoyant plume
# dusky pulsar Yes, when you increase the amount of rockets AT gets and increase their penetrat...

Let's recap

Tanks got speed boost
Health boost
HE radius boost
Turret speed boost

AT gets a 3rd rocket to balance things out which gives you guys an additional 3 seconds to react and you somehow think this is making AT MORE lethal? 🤣🤣🤣

And yes. You guys still get it easier. Leadership chat. Prox chat and if youre actually by the strong point you'll have friendlies you can ask to watch your back.

Meanwhile in order to get an AT gun properly set up. We gotta figure out a spot on the map to set up that has a view of your position that you dont see us, probably have to drop our own box, and hope someone doesnt mind reloading while we get all the fun of trying to blow you up 😂 which fun fact. Not many do.

"Manpower is also limited."

Hmm lets see. What number is bigger. 6,000? Or 2,000,000?

Curious what those numbers are from? The largest tank battle in WW2 battle of Kursk.

What has hell let loose scaled us down to? 50v50. Yes youre gonna see an unlimited amount of infantry because even if you killed 50 guys a minute for a whole day, you dont even hit the amount of infantry that fought at the battle of Hurtgen.

As I said before, tanks consequences for sucking is vastly different than infantry's consequences. Dont wanna worry about limited resources? Dont play tank. Dont want to die a lot? Dont play the meat grinder approach in the game. Dont want to spend a lot of time running and not seeing action? Dont flank.

Everything in this game has consequences, just because those consequences dont match YOUR consequences, doesnt make it better or worse.

End of the day, its still a video game. And video games require balance even if it isnt 100% true to life accurate. Otherwise everyone rushes to play the OP role and have all the fun which explains why the sniper role itself in the game is so hard to get to.

safe prawn
#

TLDR all the comments, but the tanks were buffed too much, with the speed boost and increased armour. Medium tanks could stay on the move, wipe garries and OPs then cap the point. As AT you would spawn in get one, maybe two rockets in them and they'd be 200+ meters away. They either needed to slow down and reduce armour, or give AT 3 rockets. I'm okay with the 3 rockets. I also think it's good German tanks can now be front and side penned bringing them in line with Allies. Good tank crews can win games, I don't think that changes so much with the updates. Now they can be dealt with and are less oppressive, or at least more evenly balanced across factions. Pls note, I play tank as well as infantry.

Now, with all the tank physics being broken, along with performance in general, I wouldn't be opposed to the tanks being put back the way they were. I just want a game that performs well. In saying that, being able to drive over more trenches and whatnot was a positive improvement.

buoyant plume
manic kindle
dusky pulsar
# buoyant plume Let's recap Tanks got speed boost Health boost HE radius boost Turret speed boo...

Speed boost, nerfed in the last update.
HE radius boost was only for a few tanks, some even had their radius REDUCED, like all the light tanks, and mediums had no change.
What about the small change of the P4 losing it's front and side rocket immunity, Axis heavies losing their side immunity? But according to you, going from being immune to rockets to not isn't increased lethality, I guess. Funny how you forgot to mention that tiny change.

Ah yes, I have the privilege of using Leadership chat as a middleman to ask an SL to ask blueberries to do their job instead of you just using you know, using SQUAD CHAT like you do to talk to your squad directly? I don't even know why you keep up this facade of "Infantry support" when you've already admitted the average blueberry is incapable of listening or coordinating.

Wow, you have to use positioning? Kind of like tanks have to? Now I see why AT don't want to build AT guns, the first step alone is already too much for them. And then you have to drop your own supply box? Man, it's tough out there for infantry players. The herculean tasks you guys have to deal with is truly astonishing.

Except you don't need to see unlimited amount of infantry. Did you know that even BATTLEFIELD has a ticket system? And a large playercount? And tanks, and jets? Imagine a game that has less consequences for dying than Battlefield, a game known for being only barely less casual than Call of Duty. Maybe that's why you're playing HLL?

I agree, balance is important. That is why a single class without needing resources shouldn't be able to so easily defeat assets that require resources and coordination. As according to people like you, tanks require their three man crew, plus at least one blueberry just to counter a single AT guy, and you say that out loud and don't see how hilariously ironic it is when you then also say it's a teamwork game. Teamwork for thee, but not for AT. At the very least if they're not going to revert these changes at least make tanks cheaper, because if they're going to dumb down the game for AT it's only fair to dumb it down for tanks too.

woven yarrow
buoyant plume
# dusky pulsar Speed boost, nerfed in the last update. HE radius boost was only for a few tanks...

Just because it got nerfed doesnt mean its not still bad 😂

I mean why is a whole P4 jumping a significantly sloped mound like its a bmx bike without losing ANY momentum? These are WW2 era tanks not M1 Abrams. Please do riddle me how exactly we are supposed to catch them to satchel? 😂

Additionally British rockets could always front pen German mediums anyways. So they didnt technically lose anything, it just got expanded to other factions. Plus I've said previously I didnt agree with it because now it makes American AT superior to German due to m1 and kar9 balancing.

And again, it doesnt have to be a blueberry from a squad, that SL can provide you cover himself. Any level, any class can do that for you. And randoms more easily see the value of tanks vs assuming the blueberry on the AT gun knows what he's doing.

And yes, we have to figure out positioning, because as mentioned before, y'all get zoom in capabilities up to what, 8x for TC? 6 for gunner. And AT gun is 2? Not to mention a bright AF green silhouette we have to hope you dont notice 😂 but go on. Tell me more how that is so much more advantaged for AT than armor.

Oh really? Good for battlefield. Im proud of them. Again. Lets assume you have a good round of armor. And finish with 200 kills.

Thats 399,800 more Germans youd have to work through at the battle of the bulge.

You should really consider going to Arma if you want immense indepth complex teamwork. All the teamwork i ask for in a video game is someone to cover me so I can knock out a tank, or if I satchel and get randomly shot by an enemy on point that missed his initial target, then to cover my satchel as it explodes.

This game has been out for 5 years, and matches still have trouble getting garrisons down, playing defense on warfare. Basic core concepts of the game and yet think that they should make taking out tanks MORE complex? Please 😂 all im hearing is excuses so tankers can just run around like they were before dominating everything.

The only thing they can do for armor to dumb it down even more is to make the Sherman automatic transmission.