Meltdown Update Preview

[granite sapphire]

capacity?

[next urchin]

It has 8 base storage + 200% extra from OC

[gloomy raft]

then how much does medium have??

[granite sapphire]

like their storage?

oh

wow thats a ton extra

never rly looked into it that deeply

[next urchin]

Medium reactor says 24 but has... 40?

[gloomy raft]

https://tenor.com/view/bamboozled-backstabbed-tricked-red-vs-blue-halo-gif-24766168

[kind estuary]

I used to work as an aircraft audio repair tech. There was a unit that was in the field for THIRTY YEARS.... with a schematic and circuit board error in the power input circuit that meant it only ever ran on roughly 60% of the power it should have been....
Some things are VERY wrong, but mostly work well enough to hide the problem for a long time, regardless of the number of eyes.

I feel pain from not noticing this..... OH its likely been that way since the old OCs that each had +1 battery capacity?

[gloomy raft]

how did u get your name to shimmer like that?

[kind estuary]

i didnt. thats server side, and seems to be on several different roles

[gloomy raft]

ah ok

[kind estuary]

i.... hear ion beam noises in my head when i watch it shimmer like this

[gloomy raft]

we all do.

[kind estuary]

@next urchin did I miss an update note or did something happen to deck cannon thermal connection points? ❤️ the thermal layout look now, its a lot more clear

[fallow spade]

It only shows the connection for overclocked parts since the network visualisation was introduced if you mean that.

[kind estuary]

how do i have connected, and not connected heavy laser blasters???

OH, overclock toggle is what actually connects them now, neat

[stuck roost]

Does it move on your end?

[kind estuary]

it moves when my mouse is hovering over that chat line yes

yours does too

yup, time to sleep... before Xsnow tells me that they dont see moving text x.x

[stuck roost]

I don't!

[gloomy raft]

question: if i have multiple lances and the assorted pumps for buffing does it apply equal max buff to all of them or split the total possible butt between all the lances?

[hollow gull]

it increases the rate of fire, if they're all on the same pipes

[remote wadi]

To be fair, when I do testing, that's never something I'd pay much attention to. I set everything to auto-fire and set time to 8x and see if it keeps up.

I don't sit there and count how many power cells are in the reactor haha

[hollow gull]

I noticed it was more than double but I didn't speak up 😔 I thought it was yet to be implemented like TRL heat stats

[remote wadi]

How are you going to operate those laser plasma weapons?

And what's the response given to people asking why the "laser" weapons clearly shoot plasma, not lasers, while the "ion" (plasma) beam uses crystals to focus light? Lmao

The best handwavery I could give is:

"Laser" weapons make plasma excited via lasers and then fires the plasma. And when OCd (depending on if you change it or not), the medium blaster actually fires lasers.

"Ion" beams are kind of an alternative name for laser anyway. Light amplification through stimulated emission of radiation. Ions are stimulated and releasing photons. Slap it in a laser cavity and you're good.

[hollow gull]

easy.
When the Cosmoteers took to space after leaving earth, the language changed and the meanings swapped

[remote wadi]

Somehow this actually seems reasonable enough to not make me upset

Considering the number of crew that I send into the abyss immediately before buying as many humans as I can find, I'm sure we're scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

I still have to explain to people in HD what a laser is when people start arguing about the sickle on a weekly basis

"bUt It SaYs LaSeR iN tHe DeScRiPtIoN"

The description doesn't change physics!

The developers also could have easily made the sickle into a pulse laser but I don't know why they didn't. It would be so much cooler if it was IMO.

Not many games add pulse lasers. MechWarrior is the only one I'm aware of, in addition to hell divers 1.

[hollow gull]

a pulsed laser is still a laser, calling it a laser is just a less specific term

[vague dew]

literly one shot

[frigid flax]

#1370799036591898837 message

Keep in mind that the power use for the buffs multiply for each lance

Not at a disminishing rate like the lances

[gloomy raft]

sometimes tooltips dont proactively disappear

not sure if a bug or just annoying yet

or rather

i know its a bug i just dont know how to describe replicating it

[hollow gull]

yeah I have that, some popup menues stay and you cant get rid of them

[gloomy raft]

it was caught earlier today by someone else

question: are ppl currently happy with oc chain guns?

they feel pretty underwhelming to me

[lusty zealot]

there's also from the depths

[remote wadi]

The sickle isn't a pulse laser. It's a plasma weapon.

Its projectiles are very slow compared to light.

[remote wadi]

Oh yeah. I kept having that happen but couldn't figure out exactly how to reproduce it.

I assumed it was exiting blueprint mode while a popup was fading in or out.

[hollow gull]

the atmosphere is filled with some version of Bose-Einstein condensates

[crystal pecan]

Well, cosmoteer I think canonically already takes place in some sort of weird nebula (this is the explanation I have heard for ships having drag in space, I'm only like 60% sure it is canon) so maybe whatever the medium in slows down light more the more concentrated it is or something

[lusty zealot]

iirc walt's said somewhere in #ask-walt that the 'laser' weapons are basically a laser bouncing around inside a bubble of plasma

or something to that effect

[kind estuary]

I filled in the corridor with steel and the crew mystically teleported out of the steel prison.... ill have to try harder next time

[kind estuary]

they are laser blasters. they shoot condensed energy balls, likely made of delicious reactor juice, and were named after ancient sci fi lore the creator was obsessed with.

Ion emitters shoot a stream of charged ions, not plasma. this is part of why the OC overcharges the ions to cause lightning in space

[kind estuary]

awww damn, i missed that one

[gloomy raft]

potential problem

because of the way fire propogates damage it seems like in arena mode the ammount of points im getting with lances is way less than it would be using more conventional weapons

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone New preview build, thanks for testing!!! (Best community of all time??? Best community of all time!!!)

Features:

• Added an amplification/dilation value overlay to Thermal Resonance Lance in build mode when hovered or when placing a connected TRL or Pump

Balance:

• Disruptor (Overclocked): re-added damage on initial hit (100)
• Heat:
  • (Fix) Reduced empty-cell diffusion speed (0.04→0.004)
  • Heat on structure parts now diffuses into empty cells at 500% the base rate
  • Heat on structure part cells now considers its underlying cell to be 75% empty space when calculating self-diffusion (ie. from a cell to the same cell)
• Chaingun (Overclocked):
  • Increased ammo per shot (0.25→1)
  • Increased heat per shot (300→600)
  • Increased explosion radius (1.5m→2.5m)
  • Reverted explosion damage type to “explosive” (resisted by armour)
  • Added impact damage (1,200/shot)
• Large Cannon (Overclocked): increased shrapnel damage (78→100)
• Deck Cannon (Overclocked): increased spread (1.5d→2d)
• Fire Extinguisher (Overclocked): increased heat on restocking (150→400)
• Point Defense (Overclocked): increased heat (150→300)
• Tractor Beam (Overclocked): increased force (60kN→80kN)
• Small Laser (Overclocked): reduced damage per shot (400→350)
• Cannon (Overclocked): increased heat per shot (265→350)

Other:

• Fixed tooltips staying open after clicking a stacked part
• Fixed Overclocked shield arc VFX showing on hidden ships
• Fixed Thermal Canister Missile launcher filling with heat at half the intended rate
• Fixed Thermal Canister Missile launcher having double the intended reload time
• Fixed overclocked Small Shield collider failing to update when overclock is toggled off
• Fixed overclocked Small Shield visual stretching at the ends of the arc
• Fixed overclocked Small Reactor Power Capacity stat excluding its base capacity (16→24)
• Fixed overclocked Medium Reactor Power Capacity stat excluding its base capacity (24→40)

[polar knot]

Hi

[tacit peak]

mhh

alright

[ashen basin]

the scale of this update is slowly dawning on me

[lusty zealot]

hopefully that's the last OCCG rework

[eager gyro]

ye, theres a lot of things that are bing done for it

[tacit peak]

seems good

[split nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/gang-shit-cat-fist-bump-gif-1116355200121716008

[frigid gull]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-thumbsup-ok-smile-gif-11279369403948550569

[narrow owl]

Holy shit my tourney ship got nerfed again 😭

[lusty zealot]

mine shrimply continues winning

[jaunty gyro]

my poor baby point defenses...

[near flax]

awesome

[delicate moss]

Amp/dila value to the TRL is very appreciated :)

[near flax]

passive cooling was at 10x the intended rate? damm

i don't think the SC needed another nerf but I'll mess around with it

[lusty zealot]

new OCCG on left, base CG on right

[narrow owl]

Thank god I was 10k underbudget 😭

Holy shit I can't even use OCPD anymore it's literally too heat intensive

[grim gyro]

Yeah it looks really overkill

[narrow owl]

I'm literally refitting my ship to not use it because it's cheaper than having the heat management

Thank god I kept my ship underbudget

Help my crew is asking for a raise

because I removed the automatic PD

[next urchin]

Yeah it's been dawning on me for a while, too

[ashen basin]

at least i dont have to make it lmao

[stuck roost]

But it's so good!

Thank you for briging it to us by the way

[lusty zealot]

tests against mixed armour/shielding and pure armour

seems the OCCG puts out a decent bit more DPS leading to more burst damage, but is substantially less efficient with its ammo. initial balance thoughts: a bit more damage for the OCCG, maybe 200-400 more impact damage?

[next urchin]

You're welcome. Thank you all for enjoying it - makes it worth it

[lusty zealot]

it's definitely more fun now than it was last update

[narrow owl]

Holy shit I'm actually losing everything

😭

[lusty zealot]

flak gang stays winning

[narrow owl]

My carefully crafted jack of all trades is losing against built-ins 😭

[lusty zealot]

rip

[narrow owl]

My OCHB ship was capable of ramming a 2DC ship and win 😭

Now it just dies

[lusty zealot]

heavy blaster? hm, wouldn't think that would have been majorly negatively affected

[narrow owl]

It got nerfed a few patches ago, lower damage

[lusty zealot]

ah

[narrow owl]

PD was the only saving grace on my ship

now it's just bad

[split nexus]

love the change in color

[eager gyro]

thats cool

[weary sparrow]

Has the overclocked shields changed how they work?

I am a bit out of the loop atm

[lusty zealot]

you could read the patch notes for yourself, to find out

they're all pinned

[weary sparrow]

Wich one? I am out of the loop for one and a half month I guess lol

[lusty zealot]

look through the patch notes for anything about shields

[stuck roost]

Was this in the patchnote? I missed it!
I guess the change in color is welcomed it must render better on eggs ships now

[gloomy raft]

lol i was just about to abandon chains on my build

but here we go again

[next urchin]

I don't think I put it in the notes. While I was fixing the stretching, I figured changing the colour/size to differentiate it visually would be good

[gloomy raft]

game just crashed after update. (was editing a ship )

where do i find logs to forward?

(first time its ever crashed on me)

[lusty zealot]

saved games, cosmoteer, [long string of numbers], logs

[gloomy raft]

it didnt make one

log ends at 23:54

which as u can see from my messages is after i started it back up

wait hold on

nvm wrong date

it still ddint make one

ends here

does anyone want to see the full log for solution purposes?

or shall i just carry on unless it happens again?

[next urchin]

Hmm probably another stack overflow if there's no crash log... very annoying

[next urchin]

Carry on and just keep in mind what you're doing for if it happens again

[gloomy raft]

yeh ive repeated the steps and it hasnt happened again

i was just editing a ship using a prefab design piece i had

[next urchin]

What parts are in the prefab

[gloomy raft]

chaing guns and storage

[next urchin]

Thermal parts in particular

[lusty zealot]

oh yeah that reminds me, celeste this should be the log for the crash i mentioned yesterday

[next urchin]

Oh

[gloomy raft]

the ship i added too has thermal parts

[next urchin]

Yeah looks like one of those hard to solve, situational bugs

That error happens when the MaxResources is negative. I don't know why it would be negative

[gloomy raft]

just happened again

concerning

[next urchin]

Any similarities between what you were doing immediately before the crash?

[gloomy raft]

only that i was editing a ship

using symmetry mode

only this time i wasnt doing much of anything meaningful

just moving a fire extinguisher

anything i can do or provide to help?

[languid basin]

Me

My ship used to be able to facetank a 6x OCDC but now it's just

😭

[gloomy raft]

cheer up dust

[lusty zealot]

my tourney ship has literally only gotten better

[gloomy raft]

the patch just means you were never meant to be able to do that with your build and all your previous success was thus fraudulent 🙂

[vague aurora]

Awesome changes! When it comes to OC DC, I think the higher spread garners even higher range, if the weapon is TRULY embracing itself as a type of long ranged bombardment playstyle.

[vague aurora]

Ooo that is cool

[gloomy raft]

gonna call it for playing tonight lads cos of wierd crashes im getting. if theres anything else i can do to help tag me

[next urchin]

Did your ships have TRLs or just OC?

[next urchin]

@mellow barn Trying to reproduce this atm, haven't had any success

[gloomy raft]

yes they had trls

3 of them

[mellow barn]

I'm busy atm but will test hopefully later today

[gloomy raft]

one more thing. i dont know or think its relevant but yesterday i was trying to see if chatgpt would generate viable ships and put this in my lost ships folder

it did not work

lol

just incase that its causing a problem

[next urchin]

How many mirrors did you have active?

[gloomy raft]

mirrors?

[next urchin]

You said you had mirror mode on

[gloomy raft]

oh yes

just the one

left to right

[next urchin]

Did it crash while you were moving the mouse with a part held, or like when you clicked

[gloomy raft]

hmmmm

in both instances when i tried to put the part down was when it stopped responding

[next urchin]

Okay, good to know. Were you in BP mode

[gloomy raft]

trying to finish making this

yeh

screen was blue

[next urchin]

Perfect, thanks for the ship, too. Fingers crossed it's easy to reproduce with this info

[gloomy raft]

yeh

hopefully

[next urchin]

OC fire extinguisher?

[gloomy raft]

it used to be this if that helps

[gloomy raft]

maybe but im not sure

i hadnt gotten around to it yet

[next urchin]

So it was not OC when you were placing it?

[gloomy raft]

i was arguably literally sorting out the extinguishers near the top

no i dont think so

[narrow owl]

who the fuck trained chatgpt on cosmoteer ship 😭

[gloomy raft]

you silly... you know they steal data.

they most likely just harvested reddit wholesale

[next urchin]

Also yeah there's a 0% chance that ChatGPT would 'understand' or correctly output the ship metadata. Just would make an image that kinda looks vaguely like a cosmoteer ship

Cosmoteer classic but weird

[narrow owl]

yeah

[gloomy raft]

😂

[narrow owl]

billions of dollars to make a non-working cosmoteer classic provedural ship generator

[gloomy raft]

i dont think i ever played cosmoteer classic lol

[next urchin]

billions of dollars to make a non-working [insert anything] generator

[narrow owl]

Once I'm done with administrative stuff irl I'll finish that python procedural ship generator

[gloomy raft]

vibe coding.....🤢

[narrow owl]

tf does that even mean 😭

[gloomy raft]

its where people write code but instead of using skill and expertise they just put the prompt in an ai have the ai generate the code and say... 'that sorta looks ok' then cringe when it fails

i dont know how ppl do that enjoyably tbh.

[narrow owl]

lol I don't use ai
all my code is 100% natural stupidity

[next urchin]

I cannot get this to crash 😠

I wonder if it's related to a specific game setting or something weird like that

Auto doors

[gloomy raft]

id rather handwrite a trillion lines of code on paper then debug code someone/thing else wrote that ive never seen working for more than 5 minutes

[gloomy raft]

maybe

would u like any of my config files to check?

[next urchin]

Yeah may as well

[narrow owl]

I don't write code on paper
I write code in dirt

[gloomy raft]

which ones?

and where?

[next urchin]

You managed to get it to happen twice in quick succession, which should mean it's reasonably common...

[gloomy raft]

or theres corruption

[next urchin]

settings.rules. I think it's just in the Cosmoteer directory

[next urchin]

Did you have a specific save game you were using?

[gloomy raft]

yeh

these two i think

[next urchin]

I just cannot get it to crash 😠

If you decide to try again @gloomy raft, launch in developer mode and under the dev toolbar (CTRL + ~) enable "Single Player Recording" (or something like that). It should hopefully generate a rec for if you crash again, and I might be able to actually fix it

[hollow gull]

the new chaingun rework is still stinky and bad

the base gun seems to outperform it even on a mag length of 3

and it generates a lot of heat which is really inconvenient and expensive to deal with

[lusty zealot]

the OCCG does dump its damage a lot faster, making it a bit better vs shields

and it can reload sooner than the non-OC due to that

[next urchin]

The accuracy is also significantly better

[hollow gull]

these images are not 1 burst, these are sustained fire on 8x speed for a while

the 1 burst isn't significantly better either

[tame comet]

another occg rework...

[hollow gull]

on current chaingun where we mostly use core mounts, that just means a longer tube, generally not going to aim at weakpoints if the weapon is fixed

why are the numbers so weak?

[tame comet]

the update will never come out because celeste will forever be too busy reworking the chaingun

[next urchin]

Not much of a rework. The only non-numeric change is the impact damage

[tame comet]

guess what you do with occg

you aim at weak points

[hollow gull]

you can do that with the base chaingun too

it's just not going to be a chaingun wit hitpoints for very long

and in this image it is generally carving out a thinner, more precise hole anyway lol

regardless

in my opinion, having to deal with heat mechanics, and steep ones

and fast ammo consumption

for marginally better burst/accuracy is simply not worth it

[tame comet]

you're also literally doing on paper tests

[hollow gull]

especially when i could make the mags MUCH longer for that cost

[tame comet]

you're also doing it against the one thing it struggles with which is armor

it got changed to have explosive damage so its resisted by armor

try literally any other block

[hollow gull]

okay, you're right. I'm being too hasty and going into this with unfair expectations

although I will note that damn near everything in this game will have armour

[gloomy raft]

thanks. ill do that tonight or tomorrow

[hollow gull]

and if it doesn't then a cannon does the job

[devout fox]

The structure change is very interesting. I like that there is support for passive beat dissipation builds, especially because ot requires you to build around it more. I do have a question though: which tiles matter for passive heat dissipation? Just the orthogonally adjacent tiles, or the diagonal ones too?

[lusty zealot]

i think just orthogonally, but could be wrong

[devout fox]

Also, do parts which are typically in deadzones (like thruster nozzles and turret heads) count for the dissipation?

Finally, does anyone know if there is any difference between wedges and normal structures for dissipation? If there has not been testing done yet on these things, I will do some and post my results

[next urchin]

Orthogonal, as theta said. Also the tile it's on (ie. My next response...)

[gloomy raft]

what timezone are u lot in its 1:46am!

[hollow gull]

gmt

cosmoteer grindset

[gloomy raft]

real

[lusty zealot]

new zealand

currently 12:46pm

[next urchin]

Yes. The self-diffusion component will dissipate heat proportional to the collision area of the tile. A 1x1 wedge is 50% "empty" for calculating self-diffusion

[next urchin]

I believe heat will spread over the entire part, not just the physical collision area of the part, but I'm not 100% sure

[hollow gull]

I tried it on some small cabal ships, and it does perform better, though the difference is not massive. Going under shields and ramming would be way better, but I think there is at least some niche for if you need to shoot out weakpoints that are not too shielded at some range, and you're not using ions for that

[grim gyro]

im not a huge fan of the new ss overclock colour

it looks nice but i don't like the inconsistency with the large shield oc

[next urchin]

Why would it be consistent with an OC that does something entirely different, though

[grim gyro]

true

[hollow gull]

when I OC laser blasters, or small cannon, or large cannon, I feel
wow, this is cool and I can immediately see and feel a big difference

with chainguns, it feels like an expensive sidegrade

[next urchin]

It's not the final look, but it's specifically different to the Large shield because they behave differently

[hollow gull]

it should be inconsistent, it does the opposite of large shield

it should colour shift away from it

i suppose that the more dense light should actually be blue, and the more spread out shields should be red

but that's just a game theory

[devout fox]

So, in practice, a small laser should be a 3x1 part for the sake of heat diffusion?

Thanks for all of the info, by the way!

[lusty zealot]

i think a damage buff is all that's really needed

[gloomy raft]

how and where do i access dev toolbar?

[gloomy raft]

for oc chains that seems amazingly boring considering what it already does ngl

[next urchin]

Have to launch in developer mode first (steam properties if you stopped the popup showing up on launch)

[lusty zealot]

well what it's doing right now is very cool but not effective enough

[hollow gull]

yeah I'd 100% like a damage buff. It has a big heat and ammo cost, but the damage doesn't fit. If that gets adjusted then it will be much easier to see how it fits in the game

[grim gyro]

the pd nerf seems necessary but DAMN do i think its overkill

[next urchin]

Then CTRL and ~ keys

[grim gyro]

pd is shit again 😔

[gloomy raft]

i also agree with this

[lusty zealot]

so to keep the same level of 'cool' but make it more effective: the simplest method of increasing a weapon's effectiveness, damage

[hollow gull]

Point Defense (Overclocked): increased heat (150→300)

I think that maybe a 100% nerf was a bit much

[lusty zealot]

add another couple hundred onto the damage numbers

[grim gyro]

and just when pd was finally usable :(

[gloomy raft]

not that anyone asked but personally id prefer the oc chainguns to function like an actual rapid fire turret so its even worth putting them outside the ship

so no ramp up. immediate top level damage. firing interval per individual magazine

[lusty zealot]

the council and devs are discussing changes to the base CG to make it more effective as a surface weapon and give it an overall clearer identity

[hollow gull]

it would be kinda cool if they were limited by heat

to the point where you have to slow the reload and mag to let it cool off

[gloomy raft]

for reasons i can only guess. this doesnt appear to be doing anything. im on the menu screen pressing the buttons and nothing

[lusty zealot]

did you launch in developer mode

[gloomy raft]

yeh

standard regional keyboard nonsense as i suspected

[tepid charm]

been getting hard crashes with no error log, game just closes now lol

[gloomy raft]

its the @ key on my keyboard

cos its paired differently in gb

[lusty zealot]

ah

[gloomy raft]

so my keyboard has @ and ' on one button

and # and squigly dash on the other

annoyingly in my mashing of ctrl combos ive shrunk my discord font and dont know which combo did it

[tepid charm]

yo yall

is there a way to find a crash log without the error report screen

[gloomy raft]

since they're discussing it. just throwing it out there as a tertiary feature.....

[lusty zealot]

saved games>cosmoteer>[long number]>logs

same area you find ship files

[tepid charm]

sweet

[tame comet]

kinda what old cg was

or old occg

infinite firerate

[gloomy raft]

???? its never done that.

[lusty zealot]

ehh, by definition those need to react quickly and chainguns do (and will still) take a while to respond

[gloomy raft]

that is amusingly the biggest problem with having them on the outside of the ship

[hollow gull]

I think this is a really important note,

accuracy changes will be far more significant once it can be a surface weapon that is free to aim and switch between targets

right now accuracy is a cool footnote, but if it gets some changes then it will matter

[lusty zealot]

yeah i did specifically propose these changes partially because they'd help pave the way for its use as a surface weapon

[gloomy raft]

rn switching between targets is a mute point if it takes forever to deploy then starts putting itself back then redeploying. at a certain point u just say 'ill just use a cannon '

[lusty zealot]

i'd say defence is

the shell is right now only useful when you don't need it, and when a chaingun's firing it's got less HP than a large cannon

plus the mags are tough to defend

[gloomy raft]

yeh but a big part of the defense issue is that unless u are semi manualling the cgs the weapon takes a silly ammount of time to react to anything

so much down time is built into using it that its simply not useful as a coverage turret

so even if u buffed its health that buff isnt gonna matter if the gun is spending 25% of its time deploying, 25% of its time reloading, 25% of its time putting itself away and occasionally it also shoots

[eager gyro]

it did at one point, ive got a 15 minute vid of chaingun asmr from it

[lusty zealot]

deployment and rotation speeds are definitely looking to be increased as well, but that issue is likely due at least in part to the size of chaingun you're using and your mag/ammo layout

[gloomy raft]

u want the ratios to be better than that. more mags. more mags = more time the thing will spend reloading and less space for anything else including more weapons so eventually it just starts eating its own tail

[lusty zealot]

more mags doesn't necessarily mean more reload time

spread out ammo and reload crew along the mag

[hollow gull]

this is a big note with the

mount on the side of your ship

-> anything on the side of your ship is probably fast moving and will break line of site repeatedly, so your chaingun never fires

[gloomy raft]

it means one of the quarters of your typical chain gun experience is going up along with mag size

[lusty zealot]

most chainguns in both pvp and built-in ships use 'modules' of several mags attached to an ammo storage with a few crew, and just copy/paste those modules till desired mag length is reached

[hollow gull]

oh I have one!

if you add 10 large cannons onto your ship, the hitpoints scale with every cannon

so a really big ship organically has more hitpoints on the guns than a small ship

a chaingun.. doesn't

[lusty zealot]

yeah, chainguns can be a bit overcentralized in terms of HP

[hollow gull]

a small ship with 3 mags has.. 18k chaingun health
a big ship with 20 mags has.. 18k chaingun health

[lusty zealot]

to be fair though, that is similar in some respects to ions and railguns, the other main competitors as modular weapons

[gloomy raft]

a bigger magazine length means either the reload time is going up. or the overall deployment time is going up time spent shooting doesnt go up fast enough compared to these two things

[lusty zealot]

and to the TRL

[vocal trout]

honestly you might be able to offset the explosion to account for shield damage (occg)

[lusty zealot]

though that's a turret so less vulnerable naturally

[lusty zealot]

?

[hollow gull]

ions can have backup prisms, and TRL can just add more frontal armour

but I do understand your point

[lusty zealot]

in what way does a larger magazine necessitate an increase in either deployment or reload time?

[gloomy raft]

because when the gun is out of ammo it puts itself back

[tepid charm]

thats... concerning

from the looks of it, it doesnt seem to be actually pushing any error in the log

its just saying it loaded creative mode, then... nothing

[gloomy raft]

so if the magazine gets longer u need more crew to facilitate the max reload speed but it doesnt help as much as ud like cos u still lose time the gun goes bakc under cover and time it comes back out.

[lusty zealot]

deployment and retraction time has nothing to do with mag count though?

and, as i said earlier, reload time doesn't scale with mag count either if you use certain layouts

[gloomy raft]

no but if u are maxing reload speed the number of times it does that goes up

[tepid charm]

time to go to bug reports, i guess

[lusty zealot]

because it's able to fire more often

and if you increase mag count, the number of deploy/retract cycles per time will decrease

because it's firing for longer

[granite sapphire]

lol, another rework

ig its like a bolter now?

[tepid charm]

actually no i cant really go to bug reports theres no specific cause to whatever tf is happening its random

[gloomy raft]

im not saying increasing the mag count is entirely useless

[lusty zealot]

this one's a less extensive rework

[granite sapphire]

does it keep the increased accuracy?

[lusty zealot]

yep

[gloomy raft]

im saying that the upside of doing that isnt enough for a coverage turret thats also being shot at

[granite sapphire]

i suppose the heat is halved effectively now

so thats cool

[lusty zealot]

i think it's still underperforming a bit, but it's just numerical changes needed to improve it from here

it does win out on DPS (at least in-burst) vs base CGs, and it does that damage in a different way compared to base CG, so it's an actually interesting overclock

[gloomy raft]

defending the turret is only an issue cos the turret is in some way shape or form switched off for way too long for it to work in that role.

[hollow gull]

relative to the benefit from other overclocks, it feels like a sidegrade while the others are upgrades. Plus this uses ammo faster, while others actually use ammo slower

so I would say that in terms of damage it is underperforming a lot

[vocal trout]

did windows kill cosmoteer

[tepid charm]

im not task managering it out or anything, its happening while im in the middle of building

no idea if windont is doing anything at all

[gloomy raft]

plus as mentioned earlier the moving side targets make keeping it deployed when it should be even more taxing.

[lusty zealot]

an increase in rotation speed would help that

[tepid charm]

this is only happening since i updated the game to newest preview

[gloomy raft]

yeh

[lusty zealot]

anyway the chaingun discussion's getting a bit off-topic, i think there's some threads in #1019739575683399840 talking about them so if you have more points to make send them there

[gloomy raft]

or we could dispense with the pretense and give it a manual deploy

but yeh fairs

[lusty zealot]

there's 2 actually, it's called force fire or setting it to always fire

[tepid charm]

the complete lack of error log and inconsistent timing means i cant really figure out what is causing this

im kinda sol, might have to switch off preview

[gloomy raft]

i dont want it to fire i just want it to be out of its case in case something shows up

i shouldnt really have to manual that for this one weapon tbh with you imo

[granite sapphire]

is the aoe capable of hitting stackes shields? thats all i rly care abt

[hollow gull]

no, I think that we should make celeste rewrite the whole thing again, add a new mechanic. instead of explosive, make it a bioweapon, and then in 8 months we can shelf it because it would be better used on another weapon in 2 years

[lusty zealot]

it's an explosion-type aoe, same as flak and HE

[granite sapphire]

so no? only overflow dmg?

[lusty zealot]

believe so

[hollow gull]

well

[gloomy raft]

a few moments later....
so anyway celeste me and Xeno were talking and we determined that the best way to get CGs balanced and working was to release fighter/bomber drones and boarding as discussed on the roadmap. how soon can u do that? tomorrow? smashing

[hollow gull]

it may not be good at breaking shields

or damaging armour

but if you need to kill an enemy with no armour or shields at a medium distance

this is the way

but wait for a damage buff then we'll see

[lusty zealot]

it is pretty good at breaking shields due to its higher DPS

less time for enemy crew to respond

and i think it does still get through armour quicker, though a full mag of OCCG gets through less than an equivalent mag of base CG

[hollow gull]

that's true, though with current ammunition usage it's really tough on the magazine size

[vocal trout]

if the log stops its probably not cosmoteers fault

general rule

on the extreme off-chance its a bug (semi-consistently replicable) then cool

[mellow barn]

There's definitely exceptions to that rule, the main one being an infinite loop

[vocal trout]

true dat

[tepid charm]

it was working just fine before this newest preview

now its happening within up to like 20 minutes down to 2-3 minutes

i havent done enough testing to figure out the exact timing, its way too inconsistent for that

[vocal trout]

by any chance is it memory?

[tepid charm]

never had memory issues with cosmoteer before

nor memory issues in general for years

[vocal trout]

hm
this is out of my pay grade

[tepid charm]

best bet is its a mod? but if it was a mod there'd be an error log

there aint no error log :<

[lusty zealot]

if you are playing with mods it'd probably be a good idea to disable them for troubleshooting

[vocal trout]

unless theyre the main cause

[tepid charm]

yeah, i can launch modless for now and see if it happens again

but with how inconsistent the timing is, reenabling one at a time or even in batches is going to be a royal pain in the ass

all previous crashes though have had logs which say exactly what the issue is

there not being a crashlog screen is really concerning

[mellow barn]

@gloomy raft What parts of the ship specifically were you editing when you kept crashing?

[tepid charm]

wrong ping but hi

[mellow barn]

Two people with similar (the same?) issues.

[tepid charm]

any. placing a cockpit, thrusters, weapons, a tractor beam, etc

o

or not even

placing anything or removing anything

[mellow barn]

Is it happening really consistently for you?

[tepid charm]

just, looking around the ship with wasd

[mellow barn]

oh now that's interesting

[tepid charm]

the timing is inconsistent but it happening is consistent

game just pops

[mellow barn]

ok so, it'd be great if you could launch in developer mode, open the dev bar with Ctrl ` (same key as ~), then enable this. Play normally from then on until it crashes, then go to %userprofile%/Saved Games/Cosmoteer/[steam ID]/Logs, sort by newest, and send the latest .rec file here.

[tepid charm]

o7 gotcha

mfw

[mellow barn]

I'm noticing in the other person's save file that their ship is very close to the world edge, which is a bit suspicious if it's not strictly a placing parts issue.

[tepid charm]

im placing ships like next to the sun

aint worldedge

wow that was within like 2 minutes

fun

got a recording, hol up

this, yeah?

if this allows you to see the ship, dont ask it was from a build and battle im just trying to finish it lmfao

wouldve made the ship normally if not for the guy i was fighting complaining about me knowing how to build ships and him not

i barely know what im doing to begin with

im gonna try redoing what i was doing when the crash happened in a sec

actually, the file mightve been missorted if thats the wrong one i can look again

cause it says mp

i guess they all do actually k nvm

anythin?

got yet another crash this one was literally just from me changing tabs to defenses lmao

happened in a minute of me getting to main menu

wow yeah its consistently within like 2 minutes now holy fuck

confirmed switching to defenses wasnt the issue, this time it just happened completely randomly. this is probably my last one until someone asks for more, im not getting anything done lol

[next urchin]

So strange. I was removing/placing/hovering everywhere for like 20 minutes and could not get it to reproduce. Thanks for the rec, hopefully it reproduces it...

[tepid charm]

if it doesnt load mods it probably wont reproduce

why a mod is causing this and not giving an error log, god knows

[next urchin]

WingZeroZXT had the same issue (a stack overflow, could be a different cause) and didn't have mods enabled, so it seems like it's a vanilla issue

[tepid charm]

this shit goofy fr

[next urchin]

The mods make it less convenient, but at least they're not like 1GB total like the StarWars mods lol

[tepid charm]

if you need me to i can get you the modlists and list what specific mods are enabled

unless the .rec has all that already

[next urchin]

The rec contains that data

[tepid charm]

good to know

can also stream my game so you can see it happen to me if you cant recreate it

[granite sapphire]

hosting pvp on preview

[next urchin]

Ugh, nope. Rec doesn't crash

[tepid charm]

im not confident in my shipbuilding abilities enough to pvp with randos lol

[tepid charm]

running without mods didnt seem to crash for me though, which is strange

[next urchin]

If you (in developer mode) start a LAN lobby and load your recs with "Load Replay (Debug)" at the top, does it crash for you at the end of the rec?

[tepid charm]

uh- lemme see

OH

also

this happened for the guy i was pvping earlier

it aint just me

doing the same thing, a build and battle, and it just suddenly happened for him

the fuck?

i think that tells me all i need to know one second

i never placed one of those down to begin with though none of us did

but ill try relaunching the game without my 1x1 quarters mod

and that platforms plus thing

[next urchin]

Which rec is that

[tepid charm]

latest

[next urchin]

I don't get that error. How did you try to load the rec?

mood

[tepid charm]

cosmoteer>load save from .rec>(the file i last sent here)

[next urchin]

Ohh, no, so go: Multiplayer > LAN > Host Game > Load Replay (Debug)

[tepid charm]

gotcha lemme reenable the mods then

?

player i assume?

no crash

i know the ship is godawful they fuckin forced me dont kill me please-

still no crash

[granite sapphire]

yeah oc cg are still incredibly underwhelming damage wise

[tepid charm]

oc cg are like kinda balls arent they

[granite sapphire]

and the choice to make them fire 4 bullets at once baffles me as weve been over this before with them spending damage faster barely being an upside

[tepid charm]

yeah, replay didnt gib the game

watching the ship get changed over time without my input was weird as hell though lol

[next urchin]

Damn, I'd hoped it might recreate the conditions required to crash... Hopefully its not one of those hardware specific bugs somehow

[tepid charm]

no idea

idk why a preview update would cause something as serious at this though

game has worked completely fine before with the occasional modded crash that i fix

i just want a goddamn log :V

[next urchin]

It's possibly to do with the TRL highlighting feature, but it's really impossible to know because StackOverflow exceptions don't print stack traces, yeah

The only way to know and fix it is to catch it in the debugger, but since I can't actually get it to happen...

[tepid charm]

i wonder where this came from then???

never seen that before, but then again ive never been in devmode

[next urchin]

Loading a save from a rec is a pretty experimental feature

Maybe it doesn't play nice with mods or something

[tepid charm]

ill try playing without those specific mods enabled

if that does end up being the cause, not a huge loss i guess

will make sure to keep devmode on and get a .rec

if it happens again though i might have to take the loss and switch off preview until next update

nope happened instantly

[next urchin]

You didn't even do anything?

[tepid charm]

got building, same ship, was moving armor around, gibbed within like 30 seconds

not even a minute lol

[next urchin]

when you clicked? or just from moving the cursor/part

[tepid charm]

moved cursor over it

was literally just moving my cursor

:/

i guess if nothing else this means i can go back to my career save

[next urchin]

If you'd be willing (I've never tried this before), we could potentially capture the stack overflow on your machine with some software. I'll need to do a bit of research into it, though

[tepid charm]

yeah sure, why not

as long as the shit is trustworthy

[next urchin]

It might also be worth checking the windows event log for any errors it reports

[tepid charm]

not even a remote idea of how to do that :p

[next urchin]

Type "Event Viewer" in your windows search bar

[tepid charm]

never seen this before oh god

[next urchin]

On the left under "Windows Logs", look in maybe like "Application" or "System" for anything error / cosmoteer looking

[tepid charm]

got something

hold on

yeah wait this is it

is sending these errors in here a bad idea? anything nasty people can do with em?

[next urchin]

You can DM them to me if you're concerned, but no, not as far as I'm aware

Maybe like... Your computer's user name

[tepid charm]

sounds about right lol

is-

is it the blueprint mode

i dmed you btw

[next urchin]

Wow okay that's crazy

[tepid charm]

i swear to god if its the blueprint mode overlay im actually gonna scream

you cant make this shit up

[next urchin]

Oh, yeah, it is, but it's also like not. I suspect it's happening for you because your .NET runtime is being stricter with memory or something. That or a race condition? Unsure

[tepid charm]

alright game, you fucking win. gonna try again and never press shift+b

[next urchin]

I have not the slightest clue why it wouldn't output a log

[tepid charm]

why would this update cause a memory issue like that though??

was there serious changes to how it handles memory or some shit?

happened within 25 seconds, never entered blueprint mode

its happening faster

[next urchin]

No, and I'm genuinely not sure. The only thing it added was basically a dispose call to a GPU object, but there were other 5 other calls of the same type next to it

[tepid charm]

its the exact same log on event viewer

this is actually goofy

not just kinda, not slightly, this is just goofy

alr yeah idfk what to do about this nor how i was able to build for so long in that build and battle match before it happened and now its happening within SECONDS of loading the ship

the game took offense to that ship i was workin on man lmfao

[next urchin]

How much RAM do you have? and VRAM?

[tepid charm]

anywhere i can see that? ive been told before i just forget constantly

[next urchin]

Uhh I think dxdiag will show it

[tepid charm]

godawful memory mixed with adhd and the 'tism

sure

[next urchin]

Or task manager

[tepid charm]

cant find vram, nothing that shows it here

[next urchin]

GPU?

[tepid charm]

3090

[next urchin]

Oh, plenty

No idea why this error seems to be specific to you and one other user

[tepid charm]

we both use the exact same modpacks enabled ingame....?

[next urchin]

Nope. It's not a mod issue. Whatever is triggering it is much lower level - .Net runtime or OS level. The stack trace in those event viewer logs is super helpful, but they notably exclude what the exception actually is - so I have no good guesses atm as to what's going wrong

[tepid charm]

fuck

wait

[next urchin]

If I can figure out how we can get the exception

[tepid charm]

if its not a mod issue

will it happen even if i run modless

[next urchin]

I thought you tried that? Probably, though it's also possible the mods are like a straw that broke the camel's back

[tepid charm]

i did but very shortly

ill give it another go

happened modless

SHIT

yeah, im shit out of luck then

i could just try to restart my computer and try again?

will that change literally anything though

verifying the game seems to have done something though, but i didnt see any failed to see something and will reacquire

ok, for now im just gonna leave the game running on creative mode, not even spawning a ship

[next urchin]

I suspect you'll at least need to pick out a part that activates the network/TRL overlays

[tepid charm]

probably lol

alr, hold on

pow, yet another godawful b&b ship

looking at this now i probably couldve just put heat exchangers on the cannons and pd oops

so far so good, gonna start actually changing it and building

im still good???

yeah no. this specific ship is fine

ill try another design

still fine

its that one fucking ship

its gotta be the tractor beam its the only thing that makes any sense

that, or the issue spontaneously fixed itself

still nothing, same ship ive been crashing on constantly

maybe im just getting lucky with the inconsistent time scale

who tf knows though, if it happens ill lyk :/

[next urchin]

I think I've figured out what the crash is related to, but not the circumstances that cause it. Either way I should be able to ensure it doesn't happen in the future. But yeah, let me know if verifying integrity somehow fixed it

[tepid charm]

seems to have

still not happening even with me actively building, tab changing and moving camera and mouse

nope there it is

T_T

just delayed it i guess

[granite sapphire]

yeah im just gonna say new cg oc is not it

im gonna need to run the numbers but the total damage potential feels so much worse

and then you have to pay heat too

i think a few things need to be done like first of all cutting its rof and improving the damage economy

[tepid charm]

alright yeah, i think ive done all i can with this issue

if you want me to do anything else lmk

[granite sapphire]

i will try maybe running less chainguns or something ig because it just feels like i do all my damage in 2 seconds and then its over

but the damage itself is so unimpressive rn

even with 6 chainguns and around 70 mags

[bitter steppe]

We could have had shotgun CGs that did good damage, but noooooo...

[granite sapphire]

god forbid we try to give cgs actual use case out of ram locks

[tepid charm]

i enjoy usin em sometimes, but theres definitely better options lol

[next urchin]

I thought you weren't a fan of the ammo efficiency of the previous CG OC, Yuuki?

[granite sapphire]

i was, they were just underpowered regardless of it

thetas the one that suggested 4 ammo per shot, not me, though i dont hate the idea

[granite sapphire]

also as far as i could tell they did less damage

[tepid charm]

speaking of chainguns, why is the left one retracting when out of ammo but the right one just isnt lmfao

[next urchin]

Chaingun code moment

[tepid charm]

chaingonk

[next urchin]

Does it happen all the time?

[tepid charm]

lemme try again

[granite sapphire]

ive always clearly been of the opinion that cgs need to gain ammo/damage per burst for their oc to be viable

[tepid charm]

nope didnt happen again

[next urchin]

could be my fault, could just be how complicated the chaingun logic is ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Probably my fault - I did have to change how it detects when it has stopped firing because it kept trying to retract between OC bursts

[tepid charm]

im just gonna try messing with all my ships but that ship that was crashing me

ive only crashed with that ship

actually lemme just try slapping a tractrole beam on this other ship

oh hey the boost thrusters got fixed

[warped crown]

celeste make it so i can overclock my armor

[tepid charm]

REAL

overclocked armor self repairs :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

im kidding dont shoot me

or not, boost thrusters still do a little trolling with their heat factor

[next urchin]

'fixed'?

[tepid charm]

their heat factor going down when in boost mode but idle is not in fact the case

seems to rise constantly until you turn them off boost mode and back

either way, game still hasnt crashed with me not spawning that ship

[next urchin]

Huh, strange

[tepid charm]

the game genuinely took offense to that ship

[next urchin]

Can you send the ship? Idk why it'd be specific to a single ship

[tepid charm]

o7 one sec

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone Small hotfix!

• Fixed Thermal Resonance Lance pump value overlay not interpolating position
• Fixed logless crash related to part-network overlay renderer disposal

[unkempt hazel]

Someone is up late

[next urchin]

@gloomy raft @tepid charm in particular for the latter. Let me know if you experience it again somehow

[cerulean prairie]

Sleep is for the week.

[grim gyro]

itsy bitsy hotfix

[pale python]

Work is for the month

[grim gyro]

weekly nap

[next urchin]

I would've snuck chaingun buffs in there too but Walt was too quick to notice the hotfix 😇

[tepid charm]

BRUH

you genuinely cant make this shit up xD

[last breach]

nuh uh

[tepid charm]

is me posting that breaking a rule or smth lemme go look again

[last breach]

me no thinf so

[tepid charm]

yeah i think im fine cool

alright lets see if cosmoteer does a little cosmotrolling

so far so good

yeah i think its over

thank fuck

[lusty zealot]

the damage numbers that i initially suggested for this change were higher than what got implemented

would have given this a decent damage/ammo advantage over base CG, though admittedly that wasn't factoring in losses from explosion stuff

[tepid charm]

oh yeah while im here is there any way to see CoM while in build mode

im blind af so

[lusty zealot]

no, unfortunately

[tepid charm]

how

[lusty zealot]

the [excelsior](#links message) server does have a bot that can show CoM, but it isn't updated for meltdown parts

[tepid charm]

ignorance incoming, but is it super hard to make a CoM identifier ingame??

[next urchin]

True, I apparently misread the 1600 as 1200 for impact damage lol

[next urchin]

Kinda - at least for blueprint mode because the mass doesn't actually exist yet. It's on my to-do list, at least for outside of blueprints

[tepid charm]

is it possible to figure out CoT as well? would be helpful for asym ships

[next urchin]

That one I have no idea. It's definitely much less straightforward especially when considering engine buffs / OCs

[tepid charm]

right

[lusty zealot]

the excelsior bot is able to do it

though admittedly not with overclocks

[agile wolf]

I enjoyed reading the "Hunt for the log-less crash", when will book two release?

[next urchin]

Oh you must've missed its predecessor: "Hunt for the hardware-specific crash"

That one turned out to be .NET's fault though, tbf

[agile wolf]

Oh my

[next urchin]

The biggest time sink is feature integration, not the calculations themselves

[lusty zealot]

fair

[next urchin]

If every feature in Cosmoteer only had to work off a static image of a ship with a blank slate, they'd be easy haha

[lusty zealot]

that is reasonable

[next urchin]

It definitely goes down while idle

[tepid charm]

wasnt for me earlier, weird

[next urchin]

How do you know?

[tepid charm]

got it high, stopped going forwards, put the timescale up to 144x, moved again and it filled it near instantly

[next urchin]

144x?

[tepid charm]

timescale mods

did the same thing on basic 8x too

[next urchin]

How high is high

Because the drop is relatively slow

[tepid charm]

filled a TRL and thermal batt, let them expel fully, stopped moving and put the timescale up to what is basically lightspeed, turned it back down and moved and it went up instantly despite having been inactive for so long

-6% on 144x is still pretty fast

[next urchin]

At the start, the batteries fill way quicker than after it's cooled down

[tepid charm]

didnt know theres a part debugger ima look into that tomorrow

[next urchin]

Also, the game probably doesn't actually run at 144x. It'll just run as quickly as it can process the ticks, up to a max of 144x.
My game will only run at ~14x in this save

[tepid charm]

maybe? but still, a minute on 144x is kinda long

[next urchin]

I would have expected it to cool down by that point, yes

[tepid charm]

it always went up instantly like it had been active the entire time

[next urchin]

The stored heat, you mean?

[tepid charm]

the heat it generated after a period of not thrusting

felt like the heat factor just wasnt going down or might’ve even been going up despite the inactivity

when filling the battery it goes up pretty slow, I stop to let it go back down, wait, and the second I move it goes up like triple the speed of before

i can do the .rec thing tomorrow, taking a break from pc that cosmoteer issue had me stressed

[granite sapphire]

right, well, currently it kinda needs a buff. also i still feel like it still tends in the direction of spending its damage too quickly

so you could lower the rof to balance the buffed damage if needed

a faster dps only further incentivizes super high mag counts with less guns

[lusty zealot]

i'm personally a fan of having an OCCG in whatever form be more towards a mag dump, but we'll see how we go

[next urchin]

I've already made some changes, so we'll see what that's like after the next update

[granite sapphire]

thats fine, but all the mag dump stuff thats been implemented so far is not rampup agnostic which just will keep encouraging adding more mags and using less guns which even further restricts cg use cases

[lusty zealot]

wdym by rampdown agnostic?

[granite sapphire]

*rampup

[lusty zealot]

ah

[granite sapphire]

all the buffs for mag dump have boiled down to "shoots faster, ramps up more with more mags"

[lusty zealot]

i generally prefer the term windup for CGs, less chance of getting confused with other stuff

[granite sapphire]

which just encourages more mags less guns

[lusty zealot]

potential odd idea to help with that while keeping it reasonably magdumpy is to increase the minimum fire rate while decreasing max fire rate

so longer mags would benefit less comparatively

[granite sapphire]

the new burst fire mode i think would make lower mag counts viable if it was actually numerically strong

[near flax]

tbh i think the the more mags less guns problem is also kinda just a core part of the cg tbh

[granite sapphire]

that was my idea with burst fire essentially

let it start at what is realistically more output by just shooting bursts

i think rly low mag counts could very much be solid rn if cg was good

[near flax]

the CG either needs corner mags or it needs to be able to have the mags connect to the back

[granite sapphire]

the 16 "shots" for bursts would allow some cool stuff

[next urchin]

Exhibit A for "why Celeste has started to hate chainguns" 😭

[granite sapphire]

doesnt need them. it would be one solution tho

[near flax]

they kinda are just core weapons not surface weapons

[lusty zealot]

and also as i mentioned earlier here, there are some points of discussion to help base CGs be better as a surface weapon in the council

[near flax]

i disagree

[lusty zealot]

it's not a problem that should be solved with an overclock, at least imo

[granite sapphire]

i think we should try the boost loading oc plaus thought up thats in my thread

that would be very interesting as an oc

[near flax]

as in they can be loaded while firing?

[granite sapphire]

if it can be solved with an oc, the base would be used as a core weapon and the oc could be used in more cases. i think thats fine, and the easiest way to fix them without some weird mag rework

[next urchin]

The issue, especially when it comes to magazine-affecting OCs, is that the Chaingun's rules are terrifying and probably quite a house of cards

[granite sapphire]

yeah

[granite sapphire]

how feasible would it be to make the cg capable of being loaded while firing?

[near flax]

chainguns are definetly in the pile of parts that are either overpowered or underpowered, very difficult to get them in a solid balance state
(other parts in this category include nukes and tractor beams)

[granite sapphire]

i dont think theyre quite in that level

their only real issue is the ramlock reliance, but thats always been balanced for the most part

[near flax]

they were op when first introduced at least

[next urchin]

I have not the slightest clue, and I'd be afraid to find out. The logic behind their magazines, particularly the sprite animations, is something I've kind of intentionally avoided touching

[lusty zealot]

there is one idea that walt had for a CG OC that could just be added as a separate feature independent of OC, the ability to wind up while still in their shell and without firing (so they can start firing already partially or fully ramped) but at the cost of heat generation

[granite sapphire]

wasnt it tapuck that added most of the cg code? i suppose they might have a better idea

[next urchin]

Yes

[granite sapphire]

i dont think thatll be impactful enough as an oc alone, though adding it along with extra benefits would be interesting

[lusty zealot]

that could be a good way to make short mags more useful, being able to pre-spin them to get their damage out quickly

[lusty zealot]

honestly i'd prefer to have it as just. an extra option for the chaingun, regardless of OC

[granite sapphire]

however, it wont solve the issue of how cgs with few mags just barely output any damage/credit

[granite sapphire]

would it still produce heat?

bit odd

[near flax]

btw, celeste, are launchers something that overclocks are getting considered for?

[lusty zealot]

imo heat shouldn't just be limited to overclocks, it's got a lot of potential for other stuff

[next urchin]

Not for this release. The TCM broadly fills that role

Who knows about the future, though

[lusty zealot]

and tbh it is technically not limited to overclocks already, with the TRL generating it as a byproduct even though it's not overclockable and the TCM using it offensively

[granite sapphire]

i dont disagree

[lusty zealot]

though to be fair the TRL is distinctly a thermal thing

[near flax]

oh, also while im shilling for ideas ive had, opinions on having different values for TCM absorbed heat and applied heat?

i mean passive disipation did get cut a lot so that actually may not be needed

[lusty zealot]

it's worth testing TCMs further after the dissipation reduction

[near flax]

on it boss

[granite sapphire]

i mean

[lusty zealot]

considering it was like. 10x the intentional rate

[granite sapphire]

i made some "thermodynamics ™️ " contraptions that generate infinite heat

pretty funny

[lusty zealot]

i've already seen the heat from my [Misfire](#sotd-submissions message)'s TCMs sticking around a good bit longer in combat, though that ship has a lot of other stuff going on so the actual impact of that is hard to determine

[granite sapphire]

i might try to make a locking morb that uses the front half with blocked radiators to generate heat for the back half by using exchangers to suck up the radiators heat

theres a lot of silly stuff you can do with multi ships plus exchangers

[lusty zealot]

that's cool

i will also note that i'd like to see some part that can dump heat from your thermal system onto your hull, which could open up more Thermodynamic Shenanigan opportunities

[granite sapphire]

for sure

thats basically what im analoging already with friendly fire radiators

[lusty zealot]

it'd also allow for automatic detach when under thermal stress, which has some serious doohickey potential

[near flax]

he vs tcm
previous version of the game (left) vs current version of the game (right)

incosistancies exist with the test

[granite sapphire]

can you test with like a few missiles each?

tcms stacking heat should make each one stronger the more you have

[near flax]

tested with a full thing of each launcher

this is 3HE vs 2TCM

[lusty zealot]

that doesn't seem unreasonable especially since TCMs are also heat dissipation and provide a debuff and ignite fires

[near flax]

yeah absolutely

seems good where it is

[granite sapphire]

mhm seems solid

hows the 2 missile per launcher? it sounds like that would make it hell to sustain for missile modules

[near flax]

i think overall good

[lusty zealot]

each missile takes 5 parts

[near flax]

my testing was a while ago

[lusty zealot]

so it's 10 parts per launcher total

[near flax]

its overall heat limited vs part limited

[lusty zealot]

aye

in most cases at least

i think TCM'll be in a good place with the dissipation changes, with the possible exception of their effect (or lack thereof) on shields

[granite sapphire]

does the heat apply past pipes directly to the shield generator?

[lusty zealot]

i believe it applies a small proportion of its heat directly to the generator

though the keyword there is small

[stuck roost]

It was a good idea I waited tomorrow then

I'll do some math on them later today just to make sure

[near flax]

testing ships and tcms fire after OCDC?

huh, likely placement related stuff

[waxen rune]

i completely missed this releasing

whats new what did i miss

i see something about a heat mechanic

[agile wolf]

Ability to overclock parts for new/improved functionality at the cost of heat; risk of starting fires.
You can use pipes and radiators to sink that heat, bringing new design challenges to the table

[agile wolf]

Fun new toys to play around with

[vague dew]

now it looks like it has the same damage per mag but it does it in a shorter time. cool

[waxen rune]

what exactly do overclocked disruptors do

just increased power drain and some damage?

[granite sapphire]

they pierce non power reliant parts, directly drain power from parts they hit and apply a power draining status effect

[waxen rune]

oh damn

what about PD? i saw it generates its own power atleast partially when oc,d?

[granite sapphire]

yeah

[vague dew]

not enough to keep it going for 100% of the time though

[waxen rune]

fair

the overclocked ion beam seems interesting

not sure how strong it actually is though

since it wont be drilling through ships like a normal one does

[granite sapphire]

its very powerful vs shielded enemies, and it does not suffer from damage loss over range

[waxen rune]

ouh

overclocked mining lasers do damage to shields

oh they get a AOE too

deck guns just get a ton of penetration?

[sharp viper]

new menu, neat!

[devout fox]

And they get a bullet speed and range buff. It means they're nearly as long of a range as missiles

[waxen rune]

oh so they are just railguns now lol

[marsh aurora]

If I'm not wrong, EMP effects drains energy from the first component in the rules file towards the last component. Therefore, the Overclock_BatteryProviderStorage from Power Storage should be above the BatteryStorage so that it drains first the overclocked energy and later the normal energy, shouldn't it?

[hollow gull]

it would be pretty cool if overclocked EMP missiles did the opposite, and surged full components, making crew near the components get hit by a lighting bolt lol

[tame comet]

i dont think we're getting overclocked missiles

[split nexus]

nuke oc

fatboy

[tame comet]

no damage
galaxy wide aoe

10% damage
1200% aoe size

we ignore that 10 alpha nukes are op as shit in this scenario

[hollow gull]

change it to nova bomb that you can shoot into the sun to obliterate the whole system, resetting your fame to 0
pros???
cons???

[near flax]

currently launcher OCs aren't planned

the idea I had was to give nukes a second aiming phase if they miss

[tame comet]

that is absolutely horrifying

seeing the nuke miss then breathe a sigh of relief only for it to turn around and launch again is nightmare fuel

[near flax]

to balance it it would do reduced damage after the second aiming phase

nukes are scary, overclocked nukes should be scarier

[crystal pecan]

What happens when a thermal canister missile hits a shield? Anything?

[jaunty gyro]

Transfers heat stress into the shield room right?

[vague aurora]

I don't think it's necessary, for overclock theme the missile got itself the heat canister/incendiary

[remote wadi]

Is there a place where people LFG for preview or is it mostly just people playing with their friends?

[vague dew]

think you just do it in #multiplayer-lfg and you clarify that its meltdown

[remote wadi]

I've just been finding people's username from the server list and DMing them to ask if I could join haha

[near flax]

if you're looking for career then #multiplayer-lfg
if you're looking for pvp then join tidepool/excelsior/fight club

[eternal ibex]

tidepool does every gamemode <~<

[near flax]

it does

[remote wadi]

Every campaign ever:

[narrow blade]

i wouldnt exactly make a brick of storage since i have this innate urge to make something that isnt a fucking brick

[vague dew]

i ususaly just make somthing in like 5 mins thats not a brick

[lusty zealot]

resources are stored in the balls

[devout fox]

🔥

[split nexus]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1160784514633715744/1309547151600390195/attachment.gif

[remote wadi]

Brick is efficient

[hollow gull]

the brick is 'I can't be bothered to design a ship that needs expanding every 10 minutes'

wow I just had such a cool idea
we should be able to overclock bricks and throw them at enemy ships to vandalise them

[narrow blade]

overclocked spray paint

[devout fox]

: paint sticks to opponents' ships on contact

[waxen rune]

are we gonna get full descriptors on what overclock effects do on certain components on release?

once its all finalized

[paper hemlock]

Yes

[waxen rune]

ah nice

oh is shield penetration a new stat? i dont remember that being a thing last time i played

can certain weapons "ignore" shields now by partially passing through?

[next urchin]

They always could

I think shield penetration was just a rewording for clarification

[waxen rune]

oh i guess i just stacked too many shields to ever notice

[lusty zealot]

also by certain weapons i'm pretty sure it's like. just disruptors

[granite sapphire]

rails too

[lusty zealot]

specifically shield penetration?

[granite sapphire]

rails can pen small shields when theyre at low hp iirc

[lusty zealot]

well yeah but that's not specifically 'shield penetration' that's just penetration working against both shields and parts

[high robin]

amen hahahahahahah

[flat skiff]

wait so does the accumulation of heat of OCboost passively reduce?

[tame comet]

yes

i believe so anyways

i think its like -6% when idle

also question, do/are oc railguns gonna get nerfed?

if yes, i suggest lowering the raw damage per shot and/or making them not reload while firing. them essentially gaining exponential damage is kinda fucked up (to a certain point it like 4-6x) and their capped charge + reloading whiel firing makes their potential to kill fucking insane

if i had to give a number itd probably be 7500

base is 5k and oc is 10k i think

[granite sapphire]

they dont need a nerf

[tame comet]

they dont?

[lusty zealot]

for pvp they probably don't, but in career they do seem very strong

[granite sapphire]

p much straight upgrade in career as some have mentioned

i think we need more homing of some form in the overclocks

whether it be railguns or deck cannons

i want gyrojets

[rough dock]

We need melee weapons. What if the overclocked chaingun became a chainsaw and the ammo line converted to a fuel line?

It would also only be useable as a surface weapon in that case.

[granite sapphire]

lol

[remote charm]

Definitely a unique idea

[hollow gull]

I think that for career maybe there should be more tools to deal with kites in general, rather than a railgun change, since even using an Icarus will wreck most ships in the mode

(and they are annoying to deal with as a player)

[marsh aurora]

Disruptor have 50m penetration but only against shields

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone New Meltdown Update preview! Thanks for testing!

Balance:

• Chaingun (Overclocked):
  • Reduced fire rate ((2.86-15)→(1.43→7.5))
  • Increased impact damage per shot (1,200→1,800)
  • Increased explosion damage per shot (1,200→2,100)
• Heat:
  • Replaced ‘Outbound’ diffusion speed with ‘Occupied’. Diffusion speed across two cells is now the average of the cells’ Occupied speeds
    • Effectively halved diffusion speed from structure to non-structure, but increased non-structure→structure diffusion speed to 13x the base
  • Reduced structure empty-cell diffusion speed factor (5x→4x)
• Sun heat now hits shields. Some of the heat drains the shield directly, and some of it is passed through to the hull of the shield generator itself.

Other:

• Fixed “'0' cannot be greater than -{x}” crash caused by out of date heat network MaxResources data
• Fixed overlapping of Heat Exchanger area of effect overlay

[zinc ether]

Hmmm

[frail anvil]

Ahh I have to rework my mod again >~<

Every update breaks it

[near flax]

yay!

new stuff

[paper hemlock]

The pains of modding a preview

[frail anvil]

Still fire update!

[frigid flax]

peam

[fickle patrol]

another CGOC (mini) rework!

[twilit matrix]

So - wait - can we now use structure to pull heat away from other modules?

That's what it's sounding like to me, at least.

[frail anvil]

I find a few modding bugs that way

[polar knot]

I’m gonna have to redesign my oc chain gun ship again 😭

[near flax]

yup!

[light stratus]

OC CG rework -> It has problems -> OC CG rework again -> repeat

[twilit matrix]

Awesome! So we can now dump heat into structure without needing pipes - and use structure as radiators.

[mild gazelle]

You get to redesign your occg ship again

[woven aurora]

This was a nerf and buff, not a rework

[light stratus]

nerf + buff = rework

it changed

[fickle patrol]

shifting it to shoot slower but have higher impact shots feels a lot like a rework

if a small one

[woven aurora]

Hm

[livid thunder]

Balanced OCCG, just a week away!

[light stratus]

it fits the design better tbh

since OC CG fires multiple ammo in a single shot

changed from it's og ver

(which i still miss a little)

[marsh aurora]

Interesting, but how about the numbers?

[light stratus]

you could probably forgo using radiators with OC SC on small ships and that's about it

most likely

[fickle patrol]

cant wait to make structure briccs to radiate away heat

[marsh aurora]

How much heat structures dissipate per second?

[fickle patrol]

pipes but cooler

[twilit matrix]

I don't know, I haven't played around with it yet.

[light stratus]

at a certain point it's just easier to use radiators, since structure is extremely vulnerable

[fickle patrol]

oh 100%, but it seems like structure can be fully internal where radiators cannot be

[marsh aurora]

I didn't tested basically nothing of preview other than shields for my shield mod lol

[light stratus]

but actually it means the new faction can use OC parts at the early levels due to radiators being so expensive, and requiring hypercoils

[marsh aurora]

Nice

[crystal pecan]

Does structure then disperse heat into the void? I assume structure needs to then be next to more structure/empty space

[marsh aurora]

So now we might see more ships with empy holes in the middle for dissipation

[fickle patrol]

structure arrays in the center for dissipation is yippee

[crystal pecan]

(is there a plan for pipes and structure-pipes to be functionally different? They're currently a purely cosmetic difference, right? Or do they already have different hitboxes?)

[fickle patrol]

mostly i think it might help OC ions?

[light stratus]

all blocks have a certain level of heat dissipation

[marsh aurora]

hp?

[light stratus]

it's more that you can spread the heat out so said passive heat dissipation is useful

[crystal pecan]

I thought they had the same HP, weight, etc

[marsh aurora]

No idea

I didn't check it

[near flax]

cosmetic difference, may have a different hitbox, unsure

[light stratus]

its cosmetic only

there's no reason for them to have differences otherwise

[fickle patrol]

maybe it will dissipate heat better now?

[light stratus]

pipes cannot dissipate heat

they only transport

[hollow gull]

were the chaingun mags always glitchy?

or is that this update

[light stratus]

OC CG has been glitchy from the start

[hollow gull]

the mags seem to be indecisive

the mag empties then fills up again