Meltdown Update Preview

[frigid flax]

what determines the amount of "health" that a hitscan weapon has?

against oc flak

[granite sapphire]

id assume its just proportional to damage

[frigid flax]

thats what i was thinking

[granite sapphire]

in any case ur prolly not out dpsing oc flak shrapnel in any reasonable concentration with hitscan aside from like cg from my testing

cg through sheer burst volume

[frigid flax]

what amount of flak did you test with

what

[mild gazelle]

lmao oc flak is crazy

[granite sapphire]

nothing scientific just that ions struggled like crazy

[frigid flax]

cant wait to bully ships

[granite sapphire]

and cgs generally could get through better (tho losing a lot of damage per burst is not ideal either)

[frigid flax]

shipt

[next urchin]

They're blocked regardless of damage (easier that way for now), but they have a value for how much they deplete the flak field by. It's usually just the damage

[frigid flax]

oh

ok

time to experiment with the new chaingun oc

[narrow blade]

the world is ending

[frigid flax]

Ok

[near flax]

overclocking it causes faster ramp up

[tame comet]

they mean its stuck on the screen

[near flax]

oooooooh

huh

[tame comet]

the game really wants you to know about oc mrt

the mrt feels lonely after seeing all of the non mrt oc setups

[delicate bay]

I've noticed that normal mode flak struggle to hit fast targets. (like top speed EMP missiles) Is there a 1-2 frame/tick delay between getting a firing solution and a weapon firing? I've tested 8-12 flak set in a cross-fire on a diagonal ship and EMP gets through 100% of the time. The spread and area of effect of Flak is such that Flak should always hit what it aims at.

[frigid flax]

buggin out

[tame comet]

whats the bug? i cant tell

is it the ship not moving?

[frigid flax]

not a bug its just that the mrt are tweaking after being oc and er

[tame comet]

oh that mrt is having a heart attack

its on fuckin 800 mg of caffeine

[frigid flax]

is it meant for ions to bypass oc small shields?

[granite sapphire]

they bypass all shields

they chain through them

[frigid flax]

new change?

[lusty zealot]

OCions have always done that

[frigid flax]

no just normal ions

[granite sapphire]

probably not then

[frigid flax]

cause i was wondering

why are my shields not shielding

[granite sapphire]

uh, are the ships on the same team...?

[frigid flax]

no

i used battle helper

[granite sapphire]

cause it doesnt look like its doing damage

[frigid flax]

its taking the damage

[granite sapphire]

idk, i think safe to say its unintended

it also looks wrong tho, no hiteffect

[frigid flax]

sometimes the shield works sometimes it doesnt

odd

[frigid flax]

flak oc is so funny against smaller ships lol

even just one of em can shut down their entire frontline

[next urchin]

I think it's hitting the non-OC shield arc - a bug

[frigid flax]

i like this ship :)

[remote charm]

I like it too

[marsh aurora]

OMG. Shield Radius is now buffeable???

YEAH!!!

[twilit matrix]

Wait, you've been wanting that for a long time!

[marsh aurora]

Its time to simplify my code. I had 8 different radius for my modular shield. This will take quite a lot less space

[mild sonnet]

might i ask. is there a mod doing the shields bigger or have i missed something 😭

[tame comet]

oc small shields got tweaked

instead of smaller radius its larger radius

i personally do not like it

[mild sonnet]

ohhhh okay

are they just as strong as non oc shields or are they stronger

like before

[mild sonnet]

same tbh

[near flax]

same strength just bigger

[tame comet]

its pocket large shield

i personally liked it when both were smaller arc but stronger

[mild sonnet]

awh damn... thats no fun, i loved having reaaaally powerful shields but i could also see big shields being good, before you had to like give your shields 50% of the ships space if you wanted good protection

[tame comet]

ls have more lategame potential and ss feels so much nicer and great for closing weak points but it's a bitch to pipe

[mild sonnet]

so yeah, big shields are nice. but it would be nice to have the strong and small ones aswell

[tame comet]

the new ones its like why use larges ever

when i can just spam these

shields gate damage iirc

[mild sonnet]

do the large ones get even bigger?

[tame comet]

no they get smaller but double their health at the cost of generating massive amts of hea

t

[mild sonnet]

i suppose its more fine then?? like if you need strong shields, its still there

for like an ion beam ship, protecting the barrel.

[near flax]

at this point it's confirmed that the hyperdrive OC is gonna be a blink drive
imo there needs to be some way of rewarding high hyperdrive efficiency with reduced heat generation

here's my opinion on how it should work
when teleporting the generated heat is divided by hyperdrive efficiency and then spread equally to all hyperdrives on the ship
all hyperdrives should need to be overclocked for blinking to work

[tame comet]

my only problem with the new oc ss is that its just a ls with less health and armorable

[mild sonnet]

blink drive? like teleport whereever without a beacon or smt?

[near flax]

yup

[mild sonnet]

thats awesome!

[tame comet]

oc hyperdrive is a blink drive probably

[near flax]

short distances

[mild sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-personal-kid-teleports-behind-you-megaman-battle-network-battle-network-megaman-exe-gif-25890807

[tame comet]

i cant wait to get migranes trying to not only do crew stuff in career but also piping

tbf the ships ive built have not been terrible headache wise

[mild sonnet]

the main thing that i love with oc is that small ships can be strong (at the cost of like costing as much as a bigger ship)

since i dont really like the concept of just expanding the ship to make it better.

[tame comet]

theres a lot you can do outside of expanding iirc, but i understand what you mean

a lot is an overstatement actually

[mild sonnet]

yeahhh

[tame comet]

its mainly different weaponry and more crew. deck guns and missiles eat crew really damn fast

but thats it

[mild sonnet]

yep

[gloomy raft]

genuinely, can someone explain to me the logic behind fire extinguisher overclocking that can contribute to additional heat problems rather than just giving us a different tier of FE's that cost more or in perhaps lil bit larger room?

[near flax]

@next urchin just an fyi, currently disipation is high enough that if OCSL has empty space on the top and sides it doesnt need any cooling

unsure if this is a behavior you want to patch out but i dont really see a problem with it, just informing not complaining

[little yew]

Is there a rate limit to how fast a pipe can transfer heat out of a component?

[near flax]

nope

[jaunty gyro]

Question, if pipes are connected to both an engine room and one of its dependent thrusters, does that thruster still suffer heat inefficiency? So would the thruster on the left generate more heat than the thruster on the right or no?

[near flax]

thruster wont suffer from heat inefficency

[jaunty gyro]

Ooh that's nice then

[jaunty gyro]

Nice 😎

[regal wharf]

New twin fighter reveal

[coarse spindle]

Yeah finally a soulful built-in

[frigid flax]

Fang fighter rework

[dark lily]

I think I would receive death threats if I tried to remake the fanged fighter

[flat skiff]

is this a joke..?

[coarse spindle]

You wish

[regal wharf]

Listen it's not a "death threat" it's a "reminder of your mortality"

[coarse spindle]

Just a friendly reminder that I am in your walls

[flat skiff]

why is everyone here so chill with the idea that this community just throws out death threats?

[near flax]

@next urchin does part heat disipation take place before or after heat exchangers absorb heat from a part

[coarse spindle]

They don't, but considering the reaction flame pincer has gotten and that fanged fighter is one of the most iconic ships I wouldn't count on them not appearing

[frigid flax]

is it me but why do ships not fly straight

they are shaking off prograde

[tranquil wedge]

some ships have that issue yes

[frigid flax]

time to try ocdc

[lusty zealot]

i don't know how this happened

[frigid flax]

egg

[frigid flax]

fela

[jaunty gyro]

Neat

[lusty zealot]

very nice

i should try rock style paint at some point

[frigid flax]

my dumbass forgot to power the ammo factories

[gloomy raft]

shadow egg (tm)

[jaunty gyro]

actually yeah based on the exterior.... how does one get power to the ammo factories?

[frigid flax]

quick fix

[next urchin]

Not sure, I'd have to check the update order

[near flax]

I'd super appreciate if you could post the thermal update order

[next urchin]

I don't see much of a problem with it conceptually. Heat dissipation via exposed surface was always a mechanic. As long as it doesn't end up being stupid/OP

[granite sapphire]

well logically it would be the same time as exchangers and passive dissipation are both a rate per tick not an instant step that can happen one before the other

[lusty zealot]

but which one happens first per tick, is what rift's asking

[near flax]

subticks are a thing

[lusty zealot]

like does it calculate dissipation then exchanger or vice versa

[granite sapphire]

well yea i dont think its a very big issue aside from edge cases tho

[near flax]

processes all happen within a certain order within a tick

[near flax]

it's not but I'm wonder about an edge case rn

[granite sapphire]

should be testable also

[tranquil cape]

creake fanged fighter mk 2

[pale python]

fanged fighter bay

[tame comet]

t18 ship is just like 20 fang fighters and they've been specifically programmed to immediately explode explosive charges upon seeing you

[lusty zealot]

fanged fightwo

[narrow blade]

teethed fighter

[coarse spindle]

Actually lux is fanged fighter 2

I captured it, turned it into a fringe style and called it deluxe

[granite sapphire]

is it intended for structure to affect passive heat dissapation's surface area mechanic?

[languid basin]

How is passive heat dissipation calculated anyways?

[granite sapphire]

passive heat dissipation is kinda stupid

all the sc and small thrusters ar overclocked

and it works fine

[grim gyro]

i thought small thrusters didnt work

standards do though

[marsh aurora]

The ship editor changes are amazing! So much cleaner.
Also, I love the extended + widen small shields!

[tranquil wedge]

Dont the thrusters start burning almost immediately? I also think you have to heavily micro the sc so that they dont burn.

[granite sapphire]

fe can keep up easily. the sc burn a bit but its a waste its not a big deal

it costs 55k

i have a version with fe on the sc that have zero fire issues just didnt feel it was worth

[grim gyro]

i think standard thrusters are better

this thing can run them all at max power indefinitely

[granite sapphire]

well that thing costs way more because it actually needs power and a reactor

[grim gyro]

true

[granite sapphire]

also, it would probably lose very handily on a 1 on 1

though that doesnt speak on the effectiveness of standard thrust

[grim gyro]

i can run way more thrust if i want to

i probably should if im running a reactor

[marsh aurora]

What do you think about them removing the extra health of small shields and instead adding extra radius/arc?

[jaunty gyro]

Tbh I've been liking it so far.

makes it very easy to fill small gaps and weak points. They won't stand up to repeated bombardment but it's great for blocking stray missiles or blaster shots, etc.

[verbal torrent]

small thrusters being generators isn't part of overclock afaik, just makes em double strength

[agile wolf]

Seems like you only need the sides to be empty. You can still do a protected setup.

OC Laser Blaster can be fired in the same manner for literally 0 damage. (Probably beating a dead horse, haven't checked)

[jaunty gyro]

Casemates...

[narrow owl]

How is it stupid

[craggy heath]

It’s unbalanced for dom meta atm

How bad it is isn’t currently clear

But nearly every low cost ship should run it optimally atm which feels really forced and not the best

[hollow gull]

dear architects
please include a pimped out OC fanged fighter in new faction
best regards,
fanged fighter appreciator

[narrow owl]

Get every faction a fanged fighter variant ;3

[languid basin]

Hey? This might actually be peak?

[narrow blade]

monolith and imperium are kinda poo

[narrow owl]

cabal already got a variant

[languid basin]

Waiter waiter! More Fanged Fighter variants please!

[narrow blade]

cabal has armor infront of the cockpit... unacceptable...'

[grim gyro]

can i have the files?

[quasi jewel]

I don't save them

wait a minute

I think we need fanged fighter design contest

[floral saffron]

this is NOT a fanged fighter the cockpit isn't exposed enough

[floral saffron]

whats the canon explanation for the fanged fighter exposed cockpit

is it for visibility or something

[grim gyro]

The fanged fighter is so powerful it doesn't need armour

It's opponents are destroyed before they can even land a shot

[floral saffron]

can we get a 2x upscaled fanged fighter

toothed combatant

its got a bridge instead of a cockpit

[gloomy raft]

you know why....

[gloomy raft]

a brawler incisor if you will

[languid basin]

a mawed murderer if you may

[little yew]

Do the dilation pumps make the TRL spread the same heat energy over a larger area (less heat per tile) or do they increase the total heat too (equal heat per tile)?

[vague aurora]

Jaw-wide Jiver

[near flax]

same heat, wider area

[narrow owl]

Question

Is passive heat dissipation intended to be that strong

I might have to change the ruleset of my tournament if it is

someone made an OC part without cooling that literally never burns

[near flax]

passive cooling is absolutely too high rn

[dark lily]

What's wrong with passive cooling being too high?

[near flax]

you can overclock parts with no cooling parts

OCSL if they have 5 unblocked perimeter tiles can be fully cooled/nearly fully cooled passively

similar situations for standard thrust and small cannons

[dark lily]

Yes, I've made built-ins that employ that. But why is it a problem?

You're still building your entire ship around the fact that it generates heat

[near flax]

i think it's bad for game balance

[dark lily]

Why

[gloomy raft]

Enamelled eviscerator

[near flax]

you get overclocks for essentially free, instead of having to invest money/control points into cooling

[dark lily]

You do have to pay for it in terms of surface area, which is often at a premium when designing ships

[vague aurora]

Keratin-clogged Killer!

[vague aurora]

I think that's great, in a pinch if you have un-overclocked modules you could overclock them as a last ditch effort to save yourself, that is super cool it saved my life in early game career when I overclocked small blasters.

[gloomy raft]

i havent tested it so i dont 'know' but i would like to maintain the option of passive cooling for smaller ships/weapons working to some degree

otherwise its just either your ship is well cooled and well armed or its useless against one that is.

[narrow owl]

well say that to railguns who fire so slowly and were often built skeletaly anyways who basically don't require any modification to be used

but if it's intended I have no issues with it being used in the tournament

[gloomy raft]

also it enables my more casual friends to keep playing without being completely forced to engage with a relatively more complex overheating mechanic right out the gate (and also not instantly lose to me (theoretically 😈 ))

[jaunty gyro]

Yeah I think given that you're choosing to have less armor protection in order to build the hollow shell around starter weapons it seems like a good tradeoff for the overclocking

[marsh aurora]

When overclocked, the distance stat of the small shield doesn't substracts the location of the arc shield.

[little yew]

If I have an amplification pump and two TRLs, does it to +55% to each or +110% to each?

[lusty zealot]

the buff from pumps is not split, however there is some degree of diminishing returns from having multiple TRL on a single system

so it'd be closer to like, +105% or smth

[jaunty gyro]

3-4 is the practical max right?

[little yew]

I have this here ship that I'm wondering will be at all combat-effective

Because I tested alongside my ion ship that's only slightly larget and it just does way more damage

[jaunty gyro]

test it in creative mode against ships of a similar budget as the ones you expect to encounter?

or just similar budget to it

[dark lily]

I wanted to show off that I made what amounts to an equivalent of the fanged fighter a week ago

Also, it functions off of passive radiation, so I would really like it if it didn't end up non-functional because of a nerf

[coarse spindle]

Now make a tier 1 thermal ship with a hyperdrive

(it will have no weapons)

[frigid flax]

How about nerf passive radiation but add a part that does it at a greater rate

Such part would only have one attachment point and would dissipate heat in a 2 tile radius

[hollow gull]

like a micro radiator?

[frigid flax]

Yea

[hollow gull]

yeah, I think there might be room for a micro radiator in the game

[jaunty gyro]

honestly could really go for small, medium, large radiators

[little yew]

I'm trying to further understand the TRL; I see stats for both a heat per tile and a heat pool. Is my understanding correct that both are maxima and heat is distributed evenly in such a way neither limit is exceeded?

[hollow gull]

honestly I feel similar, but TRL does have some advantages

it has a turret so it can shoot over stuff, meaning that you don't have to put a massive hole in the front

the ship is generally less prone to dying in a massive chain reaction too, since the pipes dont chain explode like prisms can

[little yew]

I was hoping to use it as a counter-shield weapon, however at least what I just showed you all is not capable of destroying shields more quickly than my ion ship

[hollow gull]

and it's better at precision shooting while keeping the weapon safe, so you can get a very powerful weapon, and aim it at individual ship parts (while with a core mount beam, you just try to hit them)

the TRL is supposed to be the counter armour weapon, I think

[little yew]

For being counter armour, it sure is very slow at breaking it

It can heat through stuff though

[hollow gull]

however if you get a TRL, add a few dilators, it works as a debuff beam to soften shields if used alongside ions

so you can put one or two at the back of your ion ship to make it more effective

[little yew]

My ion ship has a throwaway TRL added to it because why not. Only has one dilator.

[hollow gull]

for damage, you want it to be almost entirely amps

add like

40

the scaling is weird on them, and they pick up on power really fast if you just keep stacking them

hop in creative and try just slamming 100 amps on the beams

also try 3-4 outputs

and add some thermal batteries so it can handle the massive surge of heat

[lusty zealot]

note: heated parts are more vulnerable to all damage, and have lower penetration resistance

[little yew]

oooooh

[lusty zealot]

the TRL is effective as a support weapon due to this

[little yew]

Now we're talking

Before I do any changing, I'm going to try using this effect in combat

[hollow gull]

do you know some numbers?

[lusty zealot]

not really no

sorry

[hollow gull]

are we talking like

10% slight help

or double

I suppose it's really quite hard to measure

since if you're using it as a weapon then you'll destroy the parts as they heat up

so the % will always vary

[hollow gull]

oh, and the dilators are why you aren't doing much damage

they spread the damage, rather than just increasing area

so it will take much longer to warm up the area

[little yew]

I had already replaced 2 dilators with 6 pumps but seems I need to do more? I guess I don't get to have both good shield damage and other-stuff damage at once.

Now it seems I just have meh damage for both

[hollow gull]

TRL are straight up bad against shields

although the debuff should allow other weapons to damage them very easily

[little yew]

Yeah but only once I've already spent like 30+s heating the shields

That's plenty of time for a volley of nukes to cause problems

[hollow gull]

yeah truly

also throw on another TRL

each TRL will get the full power of the amps

it feels like it increases rate of fire in practice

[hollow gull]

on the flipside, being a deck mounted weapon, it will survive a lot longer than a disruptor

[lusty zealot]

It Depends™ on how hot the part is, but it's fairly substantial

[little yew]

I completely removed the dilators and gotta say

Would recommend

[hollow gull]

this tab should include fire extinguishers

[next urchin]

Railguns don't count because they can't catch fire. It just makes heat less risky for them innately and there's not much I can do about it

[little yew]

Wait what

Doesn't this mean you could literally just not add heat management to railguns?

[hollow gull]

railguns are trivial for heat management even without passive cooling tbh

[next urchin]

To a degree. They can still melt

But melting only starts at like 750 heat, whereas fire starts at 350

So railguns just get to ignore the first hazard

Oh, the loader can catch fire - that's the only part

[little yew]

I see

[hollow gull]

the crew don't want you to know this, but you can ignore fires on all components

[narrow owl]

wha
why can't they catch fire

[next urchin]

Because crew can't walk across them to put out fires or something, I think

It's been that way since like 2018 or something wild

[remote wadi]

Do the devs need any assistance when it comes to designing new ships? Perhaps upgrading some of the existing faction ships with overclocks? Or will the existing factions not use any overclocks even at high levels?

[hollow gull]

I hope that nobody tells the devs about this railgun quirk, it would ruin my strategy!

[tame comet]

they'll probably use a little bit

not very much tho

like maybe an overclocked weapon or two

ooooo this monolith ship has an overclocked railgun because fuck you for trying to play the game or oooooo this fringe ship is overclocked with its weapons because fringe are crying ooooo but its not gonna be entire ship levels of oc like the new faction

[remote wadi]

I figured it would still be nice to have all factions use a few overclocks here and there, but not full-ship heat systems like the... New faction that I already forgot the name of.

[hollow gull]

was there a thing on the roadmap about shipyards where you could buy the builtins?

[remote wadi]

I haven't fought the new faction yet.

[hollow gull]

if so, then i think that overclocking them will be fun and shouldn't be done

[remote wadi]

Yeah.

[hollow gull]

a lot of players will probably try to do runs only using builtins and modified builtins

[tame comet]

id expect to see a monolith flag ship with 1 overclocked weapon or something but i cant imagine theres gonna be many

[remote wadi]

I haven't tried that yet but some of the built-ins are pretty damn good.

When I get obliterated, my next thought is "maybe I could use one of those..."

I really like the glass cannon ships. Like the frigates with four chain guns and eight small shields. They get the job done.

Don't need to worry about taking damage if you kill the enemy faster than they kill you.

[hollow gull]

the builtins are generally extremely good and new players learn a LOT from reverse engineering and/or stealing parts

also that is very true, doubling your dps means killing them faster and taking half as much damage

[remote wadi]

I'd really love fighters/drones and docking mechanics. I always have a mother ship hauler ship that either never sees combat or I have to cover it in armor and weapons and use it as a cruiser.

It would be nice to be able to undock massive cargo crates, go into combat, then re- dock to the crates and such.

I've designed cargo crates that can be explosively disconnected in an emergency but never use them in career mode.

[hollow gull]

that's a big annoyance in career

also, having to move the big fat cargo ship to some corner of the system painfully slowly so that you can break the law

[remote wadi]

With the new overclocks, my current mother ship only has 6 huge thrusters but can go 90 m/s. It's nice

[lusty zealot]

sir and/or madam and/or whatever else, celeste is a dev

[remote wadi]

I think the overclock mechanics are pretty good. I've had to redesign a bunch of things as the developers change the overclock mechanics lol

[tame comet]

oc is decent though i do think some graphical changes could be made but i imagine thats a later thing

i also do not like small shield oc

[remote wadi]

Also, the new fire mechanics where your ship doesn't just explode into a million pieces

[tame comet]

it still can if you have ammo or sulfur aboard

[remote wadi]

Small shield OC is useful IMO but pre-update small shield OC seemed busted. It made diagonal chain gun ships absolutely bonkers.

[tame comet]

old small shield oc was not at all busted

strong, but not busted

large shield oc was busted, since it was 3x health

[remote wadi]

That too lmao

I'm just a natural diagonal-hater anyway

[tame comet]

diagonals are stinky anyways

[remote wadi]

Building diagonal is on par with wearing socks with sandals.

[hollow gull]

oh I just realised what OC crew should be, so easy

when the boarding mechanics get added, OC crew will eat the enemy crew in combat to restore hitpoints

[tame comet]

ok but ive done that and its not that bad

i dont remember why i did it but ive done it

[remote wadi]

Pre-nerf for PD OC was nice

Unless it's still the same DPS.

[tame comet]

oc pd has never gotten nerfed

[remote wadi]

I made a 2 crew ship with like 40 PD

[remote wadi]

They changed it.

I think they made it regen 0.25 power at a time instead of 1.00 power at a time.

I don't know if the total power rate changed though.

[tame comet]

i dont think thats true

i think its always been 0.25

[hollow gull]

dont diagonal ships deserve a break from being bad?

[tame comet]

no

[hollow gull]

cant they have their moment in the sun

[remote wadi]

Since there's no change log, I can't prove it. But I played around with it quite a bit and they definitely behaved differently a little while ago.

Now they only fire in tiny bursts instead of sustained bursts.

When being set to auto-fire.

[next urchin]

The only time they were changed was when half speed was reverted. They should be the same performance, though

[tame comet]

this is like me having my conspiracy theory about calamitys gatling laser dealing double damage upon release and being shadow nerfed but i have absolutely no changelog to prove it

[remote wadi]

I'm just DMing the one other person on the planet hosting a game to see if I can join lmao

Correction: the one person hosting a non-pvp game

[remote wadi]

What have I done? How did I turn off of a reactor?

[paper hemlock]

The ship's marked as junk

[remote wadi]

Your brain is massive.

[paper hemlock]

I'm just a nerd that knows way too much about this game lol

[remote wadi]

If you ever want to play Career mode, hit me up. I need friends.

Preferably 18+.

[paper hemlock]

I'm not even 18

[remote wadi]

-# well, this is awkward but I'd still be down to play

How many crew roles do you have? This is my go-to but it's been a while since I made them...

There's so many niche cases that I think I'd either need ~20 roles or just make roles specific to each ship.

[woven aurora]

i usually use 3-4 lol

[eternal ibex]

there is no such thing as too many crew roles

[paper hemlock]

I usually just use a Jack-of-All-Trades and an Operator role, although for more specialized things I have an Ammo Supplier and an Energy Supplier

[remote wadi]

Theoretically optimal crew role setup is one role per permutation of job priorities

[paper hemlock]

Also this convo should move to #general or #ships

[eternal ibex]

if you want to piss off your friends and make your logistics unreadable you can go to @plucky fossil and ask them about their naming scheme

i promise it's meltdown related

[paper hemlock]

god, "sdjasdu9ahsdi"

[eternal ibex]

if you want your crew menu to lag the game for 5 seconds when opening it, hmu

[granite sapphire]

i dont think vessels like this are particularly interesting design wise

theres nothing inherently wrong with it, though

[eternal ibex]

fire extinguisher supply lines

[granite sapphire]

i just dont know if this is what the devs had in mind

[remote wadi]

Does the passive cooling work based on exposed surface area?

[granite sapphire]

yeah

[paper hemlock]

Neat

[remote wadi]

In my experience, having an OC'd fire extinguisher (doesn't make any sense) nearby solves most of the short term heating problems

slowly cooks your crew but

[eternal ibex]

it really doesn't

[granite sapphire]

yeah it generates like no heat

[eternal ibex]

they make so little heat

[remote wadi]

One of my career ships overheated the engines after about 20 seconds but other than a few crew getting cooked occasionally, the fire extinguishers handled it fine.

[next urchin]

Idk I think it kinda is interesting by virtue of being weird

[eternal ibex]

have fun painting it

[next urchin]

Systemic/emergent features are what Cosmoteer is all about

[granite sapphire]

i suppose

[eternal ibex]

all i can say is i would absolutely despise having to paint a ship in career if the only affordable way to construct it was to make it into a sponge

[next urchin]

Dom waste ships are also just a very specific case of fucky balance. Their priorities are so wildly different to every other design scenario

[granite sapphire]

this isnt a waste

[remote wadi]

Is the fire extinguisher OC going to get tweaked? Currently, I don't see a reason to not use the OC on it. It never generates enough heat to catch on fire and, even if it did.. it's a fire extinguisher dispenser. Problem solved.

[eternal ibex]

it's also broken in career though

[granite sapphire]

yeah also the oc sl tech in particular just seems op in career

[eternal ibex]

it lets you bypass hypercoils as a cost restriction for OC small lasers

which were already super broken

[next urchin]

The SL definitely needs some nerfing

[eternal ibex]

(still broken after the nerf btw)

[next urchin]

Reminder that it will be tech locked

[eternal ibex]

unless it's like 50k cred it doesn't even matter

[next urchin]

OC SL probably could do with a bit more heat

[eternal ibex]

they don't fall off nearly as fast as non-oc smalls

[lusty zealot]

potential weird idea for the whole passive heat rejection thing: maybe make it based on distance from the nearest part, so it'd need say, 2-3 tiles gap rather than just the 1 tile gap of current

not sure how compulationally intensive or difficult to do that'd be tho

[near flax]

tbh i dont think SL need more heat

i think passive disipation needs to be lower

[wheat wigeon]

Personal comment
I like the huge Meltdown update but can hardly keep up with it, it is a good system but i hardly have time currently, learning and playing it. Thats my current situation with Cosmoteer. Still: GL ALL!

[next urchin]

"No" 💀

(Re computation)

[lusty zealot]

fair

[next urchin]

The system is fundamentally based on cell adjacency, so looking beyond that is like exponentially more expensive

Could just reduce the passive dissipation, but I'm still not convinced it's necessarily problematic

[remote wadi]

Does structure count as thermally opaque?

[next urchin]

Yes, but there's nothing particularly special about empty space - the heat either spreads to the tile if there's a part there, or 'spreads' to nothing if there isn't

In fact, spreading to empty space should be a slower rate than spreading to other parts, unless I fucked up the numbers

[remote wadi]

Ohh, copy. I hadn't noticed any part heating up due to proximity to something else being hot so I thought parts would only passively lose heat to space or something.

Is there a debug way to see heat on parts?

[next urchin]

Yeah, in dev mode

Ctrl+shift+~

[remote wadi]

Is there an additional setting I have to hit somewhere to enable that? CTRL SHIFT ~ doesn't do anything (noticible) for me.

Apologies. Am noob.

I'm in a singleplayer creative world.

[lusty zealot]

you have to launch the game in developer mode

[remote wadi]

Ah.

[remote wadi]

Space is colder than not-space.

Is the heat deterministic?

[next urchin]

Everything is

[remote wadi]

Good point. It is a multiplayer game.

[next urchin]

Space doesn't transfer heat via conduction

[remote wadi]

I was making a joke.

[granite sapphire]

uh, something is probably wrong then as per my testing

surrounding stuff like sl with structure makes the sl itself heat up far faster

[remote wadi]

The laser exposed to space radiates heat faster than the lasers with adjacent tiles will conduct away heat.

[next urchin]

Interesting. I'll take a look - I might’ve messed up the numbers recently

(When I'm not sitting in a doctor's office waiting room lol)

[remote wadi]

Radiation seems like it could be more effective than heat pipes at this rate lmao

[next urchin]

Wow that seems very wrong

That explains a lot

If someone is able to check the Data/statuses/heat.rules "Diffusion" section - that's where the numbers are

[remote wadi]

Diffusion
{
    Basis = 0
    SpeedFactor = 0.01
    MinDeltaThreshold = 0.1
    EmptyCellSpeedFactor = 0.04
    PartOutboundSpeedFactors
    {
        cosmoteer.structure = 25
        cosmoteer.structure_1x3_wedge = &cosmoteer.structure
        cosmoteer.structure_1x2_wedge = &cosmoteer.structure
        cosmoteer.structure_tri = &cosmoteer.structure
        cosmoteer.structure_wedge = &cosmoteer.structure
    }
}

Seems like EmptyCellSpeedFactor makes the passive radiation to space 4x faster.

I just set it to 0.004 and will see how that looks.

[next urchin]

That's probably what it's supposed to be 😭

[remote wadi]

That seems within reason to me. Short heat bursts, need a heat sink. But for better heat disspitation, more surface area for black body radiation.

[next urchin]

So it's 10x faster than intended, whoops

We love a problem solver 🫡

[lusty zealot]

i did think it looked a bit more effective than the numbers you'd given me would suggest

[remote wadi]

After changing, the sponge-style laser turret catches on fire first.

And I see... Structure transfers heat faster than other blocks.

Personally, I haven't experienced ship heating being much of an issue. If something is making enough heat to heat-soak the ship, that thing is likely to just blow itself up immediately. And even if it doesn't, the passive heat dissipation into space is was so high, it wouldn't matter anyway. I think turning the heat dissipation even lower might be warranted to make heat soak relevant.

In the chance you meant for 0.04 to be 4% of the base value of 0.01, I'm going to give 0.0004 for EmptyCellSpeedFactor a shot.

If I had to make a guess, I think 0.0004 is the value you meant to use (0.04 of 0.01). It feels more fitting and actually allows a vessel to become heat-soaked.

After about a minute of game time after that test:

In tense PvP games, a minute isn't a lot of time and heat dissipation seems like it would be negligible. In career, there's enough downtime that it could passively dissipate when out of combat.

[frigid gull]

Domination Anyone?

[remote wadi]

I would but I'm bad.

[frigid gull]

Np i just need to test stuff

[remote wadi]

Why not

Let me un-mod the game real quick

[frigid gull]

🤓 okay, obviously melt D lol

[remote wadi]

I'm in if you're ready to host

Oh, it seems like you're in Kris's game

[frigid gull]

oh im on the preview lol

[frigid gull]

are you on the normal game?

[remote wadi]

Preview

It said you were in someone else's game

[frigid gull]

oh im on that as well im hosting my onw game

[remote wadi]

Are you literally just kris?

[frigid gull]

let me restart

oh

[frigid gull]

you need to be in pvp

thats the co-op servers

[frigid gull]

oh

i dont see anyone on

im not in his game either

[remote wadi]

Are you on FX7?

[remote wadi]

You're on LAN.

[frigid gull]

wow

lol

[paper hemlock]

Can we move this somewhere else please

[frigid gull]

🤓

[paper hemlock]

This seems like a DM moment

rude

[frigid gull]

yeah sorry it didnt start that way.

[remote wadi]

This is the channel for discussion about the preview branch.

But sure.

[frigid gull]

idk how i get in lan.

[paper hemlock]

Are y'all in the same house

[frigid gull]

Nope.

[paper hemlock]

Then don't use lan

[frigid gull]

i know, like i said idk how i ended up there.

[paper hemlock]

There are 2 buttons on the top of your screen

[frigid gull]

ya must ahve ben a miss click

[frigid gull]

did not mean to be rude sorry 🙏

im just dum.

[granite sapphire]

lol

opps sorry for pinging

i will mention, physical transferring of heat using blocks seems interesting

[remote wadi]

Structure does it much faster than other blocks.

And if I had to guess, I think the dissipation is actually 100x faster than intended. I think passive dissipation to space was meant to be 4% of tile-tile dissipation, not 40%.

40% is still too high for heat soak to be relevant past a minute or so.

Assuming PartOutboundSpeedFactor also increases dissipation into empty tiles, that means structure is 25x as efficient as a passive radiator than other tiles. Which is very nice!

Actually gives a purpose to having some decorative structure bits on the outside of the ship. I've done that purely to make it look like radiators before. lol

For the 4% vs 40% thing... I could go back and forth on it.

I'd need to play around with different scenarios to find what seems balanced. Not counting the thermal lance, I think 4% makes for more interesting gameplay.

Including the thermal lance, 4% would make large sections ships without heat exchangers into ovens that wouldn't cool down for a long time. However, even with the current 400% dissipation, the thermal lance does that anyway, so reducing it all the way down to 4% wouldn't change much. The only counters are heat exchangers and distant spaced armor. Even with 10,000% dissipation, I think the thermal lance will still easily cook the interior. That's what makes me lean toward 4% being the intended value.

[next urchin]

Hmmmm... You do make valid points. I have to check if the outbound speed factor applies to empty cells, but I think structure having a relatively high dissipation to space would make sense and might be mechanically interesting

[lusty zealot]

from a realism/hard scifi standpoint i am absolutely all for that

[remote wadi]

I think it's thematic and mechanically interesting.

I'm 100% all for structure having better heat dissipation.

The only other thought I have on the matter is thermal mass. For instance, armor should (realistically) be able to absorb a lot more heat.

This could be implemented in game by using a part's mass value or HP value to determine thermal mass.

But I can't say exactly how it would impact gameplay or if it's worth the development to implement.

[next urchin]

Heat Capacity is something I've considered. Have never been sure enough that it actually solves any problems to implement it

[remote wadi]

I think it could actually allow cannons and such to still produce the same amount of heat but take more energy to reach spontaneous combustion, making them last longer in combat if not being actively cooled. I think that could have a positive impact on gameplay without simply nerfing OC heat production.

Edit: reason being, cannons have high mass/HP values compared to other weapon types

It could give players more options for using OCs early game (career) without needing to implement full heat management systems.

[next urchin]

the OutboundSpeedFactor appears to only be relevant between two populated cells

[remote wadi]

If you decrease empty dissipation to 4%, deleting that code to let outboundspeedfactor work with empty tiles would bring structure back up to 100% base dissipation.

Upside: structure functions as passive radiators.

Outcome: ships may use absurd amounts of structure to cool OCd small lasers.

Is that a downside? I don't think so because you'd still need a lot of "radiators" (structure) to keep them cool. Like, a lot.

If someone wants to have a small laser taking up a 7-wide section of ship for passive structure radiators, I'd say let them. That's a ton of physical space to take up for the benefit of not needing to use a single active radiator.

Also, doesn't HP and/or mass directly corelate to required components to build something?

[lusty zealot]

materials? no, don't think so

[remote wadi]

I could have sworn that was a thing. I might be thinking of Space Engineers

[next urchin]

The materials are defined solely by the list in the rules file - unrelated to HP

[remote wadi]

I kind of want to fiddle with increasing dissipation (tile-tile, not tile-empty).

Let OCd weapons heat soak the ship more and last longer before overheating. I think that could allow OCs to be used early game in career without destroying themselves in 5 seconds. Not so much dissipation that you can fire constantly for a long time until the entire ship blows up but not so little (as we have now) where the OCd weapon just explodes without the ship absorbing much heat at all.

A middle ground where you can OC a weapon for a moment or two, it might catch on fire but still puts in some work, then you disable OC to let it cool down but the next time you want to use it again, the ship is already warmer so it makes it more dangerous.

As is, the tile-tile dissipation is too low and the tile-empty dissipation is too high that heat never seems to make it more than half a dozen tiles anyway. Ship-wide heat soak isn't currently relevant.

Sorry if I'm just typing too much or not getting a clear point across. Just sharing thoughts in a casual manner while in bed. xP

[next urchin]

There are PVP balance concerns with OC (weapons, particularly) operating safely for too long

And too much tile-tile heat transfer means the parts themselves rarely end up suffering due to their heat production

[remote wadi]

That's reasonable. Are they already at that limit?

From my limited (sandbox and career) experience, weapons seemed to overheat so fast that I'd never OC something if it wasn't actively cooled.

[next urchin]

The values have gone up and down several times, but you're definitely welcome to experiment and share your thoughts. The heat diffusion balance is one of the more technical mechanics and thus doesn't tend to get much feedback unless it's very broken

[next urchin]

I'm not sure - depends on the part. The first place they break is Domination 'waste ships', which only care about how much they can get done before their inevitable and intended death, anyway

The second is Elimination alpha ships

[remote wadi]

I also think OCs will dominate PvP meta because there's no additional cost to OC something once you already have active cooling implemented.

I just tried a little skirmish with someone using OC ships and while my ships aren't built for PvP, the OC ships had crazy high firepower for a low budget ship.

[next urchin]

The <@&1331389010463031347> would have better insight than I do

[remote wadi]

I'm not experienced enough to have any opinion there, but I am curious what the PvP meta will become with OCs.

I assume it'll go through waves before any official release as things go through a lot of balance tweaks

[mild gazelle]

pvp meta is very focused on OCs, you see almost nothing that isn't oc in pvp

I'd say 90% of things in pvp are OC'd

[remote wadi]

That's what I experienced in my one PvP session on preview haha

[mild gazelle]

notable things that aren't are rails half the time, large sheilds sometimes, small sheilds sometimes, missiles sometimes

capacitors are OC'd some of the time and aren't some of the time

same for reactors

[remote wadi]

Sounds like the meta is leaning less toward sniping/kiting and more rushing.

[mild gazelle]

sniping and kiting is... boring 🙂

[remote wadi]

Yeah but rAiLfAn

[mild gazelle]

this is a kite and it works fairly well

this is my railfan, which engages at medium range typically

doesn't kite

[next urchin]

Sniping and kiting can be not boring! You just have to be actually threatened

[mild gazelle]

true

I feel more threatened when running this a lot of time because missiles have less range

but there's no issue with kiting in pvp right now

[remote wadi]

The biggest complaint with railfans for me is the required user input.

Takes a lot of quick reactions to pilot while other ship archetypes can just be a right click, set target, move on. It seems nearly impossible to pilot a railfan if you're also piloting a fleet of other ships.

[mild gazelle]

yeah so that's a big difference between career, pvp domination, and pvp elimination

railfans are pretty much only viable when running in career with one main ship and pvp elimination

OC rails aren't railfans though, which are RTSable (non-dc commands)

[remote wadi]

I've been a career boy all my life so take all of my opinions with a pinch of "crew optimization, cost is irrelevant" in mind lol

[mild gazelle]

crew optimization seems rough

in career, oc weapons don't always lower the cost of crew

[remote wadi]

Tell me about it. Lmao

You guys get unlimited free crew.

[mild gazelle]

crew costs money but it costs a lot les XD

[remote wadi]

Oh it does?

Or does crew only "cost" the barracks they're in? Lmao

[mild gazelle]

particularly crew efficient weapons that come to mind are:
OCDC
OCPD
...

OC HL is fairly good too

OCDC is suuuper crew efficient though

[remote wadi]

In career, the COST of crew is virtually irrelevant. It's the fame limit that's our limiting factor.

I'd rather have 50 OC-PD-only 2-crew ships than 1 100 crew average frigate.

[mild gazelle]

crew cost an extra 500 credits per

[remote wadi]

That's actually... Reasonable it seems.

[kind estuary]

assuming i am understanding the question Celeste pinged us for,

There are issues with shipwide heat soaking when the heat source is a scaled up to larger ship sizes. the earliest versions of the TRL, 2 separate balance council members each flash fried the entire build grid, killing all the crew in the target ship with fire everywhere before any components even broke. i later had a fully self sustained version which was definitely too strong...

balance wise, it is more of a wide adjustment to other parts to ensure we dont break anything too hard if dissipation spread were significantly increased to allow full 1.5m+ sized ship soaking.

Let me know if i missed the mark on what the question was 😄

[remote wadi]

In your specific case, drastically lowering the black body radiation would solve that.

But how were you guys baking the ships? In my play texting, I've never managed to do that.

Are you toggling OC'd weapons without any active cooling?

[lusty zealot]

kites haven't been meta for a long time

[lusty zealot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1331388126613995591/1338292129071497329/2025-02-10_00_30_23.gif

that's how

let's just say TRLs have been through a few balance passes since then

[mild gazelle]

Im gonna do a few quick crew comparisons between my pre and post meltdown ships
DC: 206/100
Big railfan: 164/172
Missile orbiter: 330/222
Missile kite: 262/264
Ion Cruiser: 184/184
Laser wall: 252/188
TB Railfan: 196/186

it looks like OC reduces crew on a lot but not everything

[remote wadi]

I think a potential solution could be reducing tile-empty dissipation to, say, 4% of base, but then adding the same 4% tile-empty dissipation to ALL tiles (simulating black body radiation above/below the craft) so the middle of a craft has some amount of passive cooling instead of just being an oven for eternity.

It would be a long-term thing. It wouldn't solve the super-buffed-thermal-lance-baking-the-entire-ship situation though

[next urchin]

They have a passive cooling effect, but it's a constant 0.5/s or something per tile

[lusty zealot]

well that's not a thing any more thanks to the council and celeste

[remote wadi]

Ahh, I did notice that but I wrote it off as lateral dissipation.

[lusty zealot]

it's impossible or at least very impractical to get something even close to that gif

[next urchin]

The % based dissipation is intentionally only on the ship's surface

[mild gazelle]

Baking ships isn't really happening anymore, and if it is, it's ver yslowly

(effectivley) Everyone uses active cooling, you need to be able to sustain for longer than the heat takes to kill the weapons

[kind estuary]

black body radiation? im slightly lost on this. When i talk about full build grid flash frying, im refering to very early balance council tests back in feb? march? we had to do so many changes to make sure TRL could function at small size, and not become overpowered monsters at largest size. im still not fully convinced we reached that point, but we finally managed to make them not crazy overpowered. (assuming nothing changed with TRL that i missed)

we cant realistically hit the entire build grid anymore. if you do find a way to do that, it means we missed a spot...

I mainly focus on massive max grid size dreadnaughts. I cannot click buttons fast enough to micro all the systems 1000+ crew can use. so i try to keep OC systems OC, and nonOC systems nonOC

[remote wadi]

By black body radiation, I'm referring to heat dissipation into space

[lusty zealot]

black body radiation is a scientific term basically meaning the heat passively radiated out from an object

[remote wadi]

I had a thought but I'm sure I'll remember it once the conversation has moved on

[remote wadi]

Is the thermal lance the only thing that would bake ships? If you toggled OC on a weapon that wasn't actively cooled, would that cause heat soak on your ships or would the ship heat soak be irrelevant?

[mild gazelle]

it would likely only be the specific weapon that oveheats and causes fires and explodes

[remote wadi]

In my career experience, it seems irrelevant. I've never gotten my ship to heat up. Worse case, the weapon/thruster explodes, but the additional heat soaked into the ship never sticks around long enough (or spreads far enough) to be relevant at all.

[kind estuary]

the sun, TRL, TCM, Radiators at super close range, and your own ship's OC systems are the only things that apply heat increases to ships last i checked. may or may not be others in the future

[lusty zealot]

hopefully fixed passive dissipation would change that at least somewhat

[remote wadi]

My suggestion was to increase dissipation to a level where it would be relevant. Where if you have no active cooling, your ship IS your thermal battery. But not to the extent where you can fire non-stop until your whole ship bakes. It would be a limit on how much you can toggle OC in a fight before your ship needs to take a long rest. (D&D reference)

[kind estuary]

you dont always want a target ship to be fully heat soaked, but rather to have that heat concentrated. you can melt ships, cause fires, amplify damagee of other weapons. each of those have different situations they would prefer the target's shipwide saturation vs concentrated heated spots

[remote wadi]

And in turn, thermal lance would likely be more effective against small ships and less effective against large ships.

[remote wadi]

I think the applied heat by the lance could be tweaked to still be relevant. I'm not suggesting the heat instantly passes through the ship. Just a bit faster than it currently does.

As is, it seems like dissipation is so slow that it doesn't really matter. A thermal lance can bake a section of a ship pretty damn quickly.

As long as it applies heat quickly, dissipation is irrelevant.

[remote wadi]

On that note, what if the thermal lance upgrades partially counter each other, making you want to build it to either heat up a small area quickly OR try to bake an entire ship?

Or maybe not counter each other but add exponential heat production to put a soft cap on the number of modules you can practically use, making you choose a balance between heat and area (or specialize in one in particular).

[lusty zealot]

ehh, mixed-purpose TRLs are already questionable

[kind estuary]

TRLs already have that

[lusty zealot]

dilation-focused TRLs are generally less used for wide-area heat application and more for the shield debuff the lance provides, which is increased more by dilation

[remote wadi]

Oh shit. I don't think they did the last time I checked but since there's no change log...

Playfully jabs dev in the arm with my elbow

[lusty zealot]

and yeah the fact that they have a limited pool of heat application means that bigger areas will get heated more slowly

[lusty zealot]

check the pins

[remote wadi]

Ohh, makes sense.

[kind estuary]

I tried a setup with 20+ TRLs in their own thermal systems while focusig on dialators. the results were.... less impressive than expected

[lusty zealot]

so that basically does give you the 'partially counter' thing

[remote wadi]

Good implementation. I like that.

[kind estuary]

i think this is more just learning how the pumps change how the TRLs work

amps focus on thermal pool, dilators increase the spread size. this naturally has some interference with each target thermal level of amplifying damage, or melting stuff

[remote wadi]

How do you think implementing thermal mass would affect the TRL in combat?

In other words, heavier parts take more energy to heat up. Armor would absorb a lot more energy before melting, while corridors and cargo would still be a piece of paper under the illegal eBay laser that is the TRL.

[kind estuary]

Balance wise, i could see existing heat transfer faster within the ship itself. its one of those fundamental aspects that will cause a butterfly effect worth of implications on other thermal weapons....

[grim gyro]

already done (by janiTNT)

[remote wadi]

Is that the meme ship of Cosmoteer? Lol

So vulnerable.

[floral saffron]

how big can you make a fanged fighter

[grim gyro]

thats it i think

[floral saffron]

can we get a fanged fighter where the two blasters are ion cores

[remote wadi]

Fill the entire grid.

[grim gyro]

toothed destroyer

[remote wadi]

Each thruster is a quad MRT stack.

[floral saffron]

new cosmoteer challenge

beat career mode with only fanged fighters

[remote wadi]

At that scale, make every single tile of the fanged fighter its own self-sufficient ship segment.

[floral saffron]

fanged fighter swarm

[kind estuary]

directly implementing thermal mass could be a nightmare for balancing as it takes away part of our control for how different parts interact and links it with materials/cost. it makes sense, but it makes an already complicated system more complex.

a visible thermal capacity for each part(and tile....) would be an easier way to do that. though I think that becomes a dev choice if they want to go that direction.

[remote wadi]

Just using part mass would be simple enough in my opinion.

Everything is an integer number of mega grams IIRC

[floral saffron]

mega grams??

isnt that just a ton

[remote wadi]

Current heat mechanics could be based on the assumption every tile is 1000 kg. So parts that are 2000 kg per tile would have twice the thermal mass. And so on

[remote wadi]

Tonne, technically.

Metric tonne, but if we start throwing around tons, people are going to assume pounds, which is a unit of weight, not mass, and then everyone gets upset.

(mostly joking)

[kind estuary]

implementation? yes, that part is easy.
Balance wise, those values currently only impact recoil and thrust. if mass effected speed and thermal capacity, it opens the door to accidentally break balance in future changes.

Say we have a situation where we need to lower mass to fix a pvp thermal problem, that change would now make the ship lighter and faster. we wouldnt be able to change one without directly changing the other

[remote wadi]

I see your point.

Unless it just works without problems, there'd need to be an additional layer/mechanic no matter what it is.

[kind estuary]

its awesome when that works positively for game balance, but that is not always the case. lots of thought needs to be had before jumping at those kinds of changes

[remote wadi]

I'm just spitballing and seeing what you guys think. Picking your brains.

Don't parts already have thermal limit values? So different parts will catch fire or break at different values?

All of these ideas are assuming thermal mass would be beneficial to gameplay anyway. It could simply make the game less enjoyable instead or be virtually irrelevant.

[kind estuary]

honestly i am not sure. I think each tile had the same thermal capacity(breakpoints/scale for each effect of heat) the biggest difference being if the part can catch fire, or its existing hp before it finishes melting

[next urchin]

Rekyu is correct

Structure resists heat damage by 75% IIRC, but that's the closest

[remote wadi]

What counters are there for the thermal lance? (Correct me if I'm getting the name wrong)

Shields?

Ridiculously spaced armor?

Heat sinks? (Do they work fast enough?)

[pale python]

Megaroids melting in seconds from thermal effects

Sobs

[remote wadi]

Does that count as mining or do the resources get destroyed?

[pale python]

Destroyed

[remote wadi]

(sorry, campaign player over here)

[kind estuary]

Whenever we can we do try to make thematically awesome concepts part of the core system we aim for it. IE rule of cool.

there are limits. Celeste once told us a story about "is this a picture of a bird" and yeah. its important to share ideas like yours because often not all parties know what will be easy or horrific eldritch nightmares of hard. even if the idea itself doesnt work the way you think, the concept might have a different way to be implemented.

[remote wadi]

I'm a developer and amateur game designer so I always love talking about things like this.

I preached for years to GSG how much I wished DRG could get rogue-like mechanics. I'm not claiming any credit, but you can guess how excited I was when they added the deep dives and then announced DRG:RC.

Maybe one of my suggestions did make it through. ❤️

[pale python]

without the ideas of changing heat damage to not-percentage, or multipliers for effects, i think the only things that are left are statusresistance (less heat gets applied than real heat) or resistance to damage (damage ramp-up quickly wins over)
I guess part mass kinda is a multiplier system by itself tbh but with a bit less fine control

[kind estuary]

TRL (yes thermal lance works for the name) spread is tile to touching tile, not aoe. This means it is possible to create spaced armor that significantly diminishes TRL effects. I dont remember which patch, but there were some that heat exchangers and shields could completely nullify all damage of TRLs. this dynamic changes from the size of investment in both ships.

[remote wadi]

Assuming TRL is the only reason to add occasional heat sinks (sorry, forgetting the name again and I'm not at my PC), it seems they're specifically a counter for the TRL (unless someone needs to use them for an awkward OC layout).

And the heat sinks are pretty cheap IIRC. Are they meta at this point to counter TRLs or are there not enough TRLs in the meta to make spamming heat sinks worth it?

I'm talking about the heat absorbers. Mind blanks on the name.

[kind estuary]

i would suggest messing around a lot more with thermal systems and have fun!

the complexity of thermal systems definitely have a learning curve. most realistic way i found was pick ONE part and add it to a build concept and see what you can get out of it. and repeat that over multiple parts. takes time, but the design side of this game is a huge part of the fun.

[next urchin]

awkward OC layout
Heat exchangers seem to be used more often for that than as a counter to heat weapons

[remote wadi]

I haven't used the TRL much but I've played around with OCs a reasonable amount. Trying to make min-maxed builds in creative and using OCs a lot in career.

Are TRLs prevalent in the meta though? Are they very strong or relatively on par with any other weapon of choice?

[kind estuary]

even with 6 months of messing with these systems, i still dont think i have the best answers for how to implement all these systems.

I am less familiar with the meta. TRLs have an insanely powerful design ceiling and we kept finding ways to make them obviously way too strong for every situation. we want them to be fun, not mandatory on everything nor useless

[lusty zealot]

https://xkcd.com/1425/

xkcd: Tasks

In the 60s, Marvin Minsky assigned a couple of undergrads to spend the summer programming a computer to use a camera to identify objects in a scene. He figured they'd have the problem solved by the end of the summer. Half a century later, we're still working on it.

[remote wadi]

I have an incoherent thought to share as my two cents of experience with OCs.

On one hand, if you use OCs, you have two options. 1: small heat system, radiators nearby. Not optimal but works. 2: full ship heat system, optimal radiator placement. Once you go option 2, you can just go nuts and OC literally everything with minimal extra investment per thing that you OC. You already have the infrastructure so suddenly everything gets buffed. So to counter how easy it is to OC an entire ship with a full thermal system, the heat pipes themselves could be made more expensive (along with the thermal batteries), replacing the coils with hyper coils for example.

On the other hand, I've often felt that a swarm of smaller sacrificial ships of equal cost to one capital ship will beat the capital ship most of the time. So, the ability for larger ships to increase their firepower with functional internals and added weak points (shielded radiators at best) does make me feel like big ships always having a full thermal system at relatively minimal cost and OCing everything isn't such a bad thing.

In summary, I like OCs. I think they're just so good that they're not really optional at this point.

If the price of heat pipes (and thermal batteries perhaps) was jacked up a bit, do you guys think that would sway the PvP meta to a more balanced position?

Would there be other consequences that would make that a bad choice?

[next urchin]

We've increased price before, but it fundamentally doesn't change how much you overclock so much as whether you overclock or not. The increased price was only to shift the entirety of overclock down a bit in value for money

[remote wadi]

Hmm. I'll keep that in mind. It's an intriguing problem.

[next urchin]

A problem we've been trying to figure out the 'perfect' solution to for a while, definitely 😅

[remote wadi]

How often have you guys tried tweaking the time to kill?

I know it's a huge topic and probably already been considered countless times, but here's my thought.

(Some of) The problems with OCs are:

1. Big ships go full OC because it's easy and the main downside to OCs is you need external radiators.

2. Waste ships exploit OC heat by making it irrelevant. Just pew pew, melt, and print another one.

3. Ship heat soak is irrelevant because fights are too short term.

If time to kill was increased:

1. There would be more opportunity for ships to try to target weak points on other ships, making radiators more of a weak point instead of being irrelevant. As is (with fast TTK), you'll be dead long before you see the ass-half of the ship charging at you at light speed with 40 OC'd weapons.

2. Waste ships would be less viable as they'd still overheat in the same time but contribute less to a fight overall before melting.

3. Heat soak would be more relevant as longer battles would give more time for such things to actually matter.

I know it wouldn't be as simple as "cut all damage in half". But as a thought experiment, I think it's not that bad of an idea. Personally, I'm also biased toward a longer TTK as I enjoy intense slug fest combat and am rather disappointed whenever I either instantly win or instantly lose a battle.

I figured the best case scenario is it's a great idea and no one has thought of it because it's a dead horse, but has new implications worth considering now with OCs. Or the worst case scenario is I'll be entertained by or learn from your guys' response. Haha

[lusty zealot]

TTK's been in the sights for a while, there are some ideas floating around

i'm personally in favour of buffing armour

[remote wadi]

If the devs aren't willing to take that leap as of yet, maybe we could try at the community level?

I wouldn't mind putting in the effort to get into Cosmo modding and work on a TTK rebalance but I don't have the experience to put that into practice in competitive PvP to determine if it's better or worse than it is now.

[crimson osprey]

An unfortunate consideration when raising pipe costs is how it effects various overclocks unevenly. Some require large amounts of pipes (small thrusters) others don’t even need pipes (Pd)

[lusty zealot]

i often run small thrust pipeless, at least for scattered maneuvering

[remote wadi]

My idea there was increasing the cost for long heat pipes. I.e., full ship thermal systems.

Isolated systems with adjacent radiators would be minimally affected.

Maybe you guys have crazy meta full ship thermal setups that use minimal pipes so it wouldn't matter that much. In my career ships, I'd usually have at least two heat pipes spanning the length and width of the ship so the cost would add up quite a bit on full thermal systems while isolated systems for OCing only a specific group of weapons or something would have minimal cost increase.

[crimson osprey]

Yeah, sadly that rarely works out in practice for reasons you already touched on. Overclocking anything lowers the cost of overclocking everything

[remote wadi]

It seems like it would still be a beneficial change but Celeste pointed out it didn't actually change much. Full thermal systems are still objectively better than isolated ones so it just raised the bar for when people considered full thermals worth it over non-OC

[remote wadi]

In theory, it would make smaller thermal systems more viable. But I presume the limit to where isolated/partial thermal systems would be the better choice is just an absurdly high cost for heat pipes

[crimson osprey]

A bit of occasional maneuvering, sure. Main thrust or dedicated turning on a hard turn can get pretty toasty

[crimson osprey]

It was definitely discussed after the first price hike and a second one was discussed

[remote wadi]

Unfortunately I haven't experimented much with non-cooled OCs. Once I realized how quickly parts burst into flames, I either actively cool something to OC it or don't OC it at all (unless it's an emergency).

Also, I definitely think OC should have a dedicated keybind but I keep forgetting to set one up. xP

Is there any reason to not OC all fire extinguishers?

[hollow gull]

I'm so fatigued with the roguelike trend, boss

[remote wadi]

I will admit, emergence is the successor to rogue-like.

They're useful tools. But in the hands of many, they're just buzzwords and obstacles.

[hollow gull]

excited game devs reading about roguelike and trying to put it into every game on the market:

I was trying to play OSRS and they put roguelike in there too

everywhere I turn, roguelike

there are two inevitabilities in life

death and roguelike

[remote wadi]

To be honest, I'm not very happy with DRG:RC's gameplay so far. They seemed to be focusing on mini-leveling with +2% damage or +3% reload speed buffs.

What made DRG weapon modding great was small level of mod categories with significant changes (often with downsides) to choosing weapon mods.

If they don't go back to that style, I don't think Rogue Core will hit like DRG did.

[hollow gull]

they might ensure that each playthrough is different from the last, but they do it by forcing me to play differently than I want to, ultimately meaning that each playthrough is never satisfying

[next urchin]

I'm not. Cosmoteer roguelike when?

[hollow gull]

I didn't play DRG:RC, I was annoyed that they stopped updating their main game at peak popularity to become a publisher

[hollow gull]

built in mod that just randomises some numbers on each playthrough????

[next urchin]

I actually don't like roguelikes all that much, but I love rogue-lites

[hollow gull]

sell it as a big content update

[next urchin]

That is the exact kind of thing we wanted to avoid for OC, probably for exactly the reason that it sucks in DRG

[remote wadi]

Bad roguelikes may just limit your options.

Good roguelikes instead change your circumstances and give you the freedom to adapt.

Instead of limiting your play style, they should encourage you to build your play style dynamically.

[next urchin]

DRG's upgrades have always felt like that to me

[lusty zealot]

nova drift (:

[hollow gull]

although on drg, most OCs are straight upgrades in almost every circumstance

[remote wadi]

Well, the OC system in DRG was half for-fun and half power creep.

[hollow gull]

even fatboy OC which is bad for high level play is still better than no upgrade launcher

[remote wadi]

I feel weird being Copper Asteroid (XXL). I set my username to this as a joke because... I'm a career player and Cu XXL is objectively the best asteroid. But now I'm committed.

[hollow gull]

you should be proud

[next urchin]

Oh, I don't know the OC mechanics in DRG. The last time I played was a very long time ago. The game never really fit for me

[hollow gull]

max level a weapon, and you get a special upgrade slot

you can go on karl.gg to take a peek at builds

green are generally small but straight buffs, yellow being a small role change, and red completely changing the weapon role

I played DRG a lot on max difficulty

[remote wadi]

I played the hell out of it. DRG's weapon modding was my favorite. Five mod slots. Each mod slot has 2-3 options. Plenty of permutations for how you want to build your weapons. And since each weapon had a unique set of weapon mods, you didn't have to deal with the boring micro-upgrade stuff that a lot of games have. The mods were curated for each weapon to have a noticeable impact on gameplay and felt satisfying when you built your weapon for specific circumstances.

Overclocks are a 6th mod slot with crazy mods. Like turning the grenade launcher into a handheld nuke or making the gatling gun make you immobile but do double damage.

[hollow gull]

I sometimes see a comment on this discord about how cosmoteer OCs are better and maybe they should have different balance, but if you have to invest in a sidegrade then it would feel bad

I think that if you go through the effort to accomodate all of the pipes and cost then it should offer an advantage

[remote wadi]

The alternative to that is just a different weapon (variant).

[next urchin]

They definitely need to be better overall. The trick has been finding a place where they don't invalidate the base part at the same time

[hollow gull]

yeah, but paying all of the radiators, cooling, plus space used, just for a different variant is whack

[remote wadi]

The sweet, sweet frustration of game design

[hollow gull]

I think that if anything offers an advantage for a drawback, ultimately players will eventually find out how to get the advantage and mitigate the drawbacks

easiest example is uh

railguns in career

they're super fragile and you would have to just spend a lot of resources protecting them with armour and shields

..or you could just go 100m/s and never get hit

[next urchin]

Yeah I mean things will be optimized, but as long as the alternative option isn't completely useless

[hollow gull]

I think that most OCs are in a pretty good place in cosmoteer at the moment

[remote wadi]

That's just gameplay. Players should do stuff like that.

The solution shouldn't be punishing players by making rail guns worse but to provide reasons not to / counters to that strategy.

If there's no counters, it becomes a problem. And... I'd agree that it probably is a problem lol. I hate rail fans.

[hollow gull]

arrowhead's incredible balance strategy:

[coarse spindle]

Hmm if the thing causing ships to be fully oc or not at all is a full-ship thermal system, would decreasing efficiency of heat transfer through pipes the further the part is from the radiator work?

[remote wadi]

I think the hypothetical fighter update would counter railgun kiting, assuming fighters are fast enough to catch up and prove to be difficult for a railfan to counter.

[robust hound]

carriers, my beloved

[remote wadi]

Arrowhead isn't nearly as bad as the bandwagon of 16 year olds would lead you to believe.

[hollow gull]

probably, the way I think of it is that you're probably going to put a bunch of radiators at the back, so if you have space then you may as well connect everything

[hollow gull]

why so?

also yeah I really hope that the fighters help with kites in general, level 2 ion kites are the most annoying things in the game

[coarse spindle]

Yes, and if they're all at the back the weapons at the front would get reduced heat transfer efficiency

[granite sapphire]

nerf EVERYTHING!!!!

[coarse spindle]

Meaning you either have to move radiators closer to danger or reduce the amount of oc parts

[granite sapphire]

it was really bad for a bit. not anymore after all the backlash, but there was a time when literally every single good primary would instantly get nerfed every patch

[hollow gull]

I was there on the early days of the game, arrowhead is worse than the 16 year olds believe

you know that the audio balance is broken to this day?

people complain that bile titans have no sounds, tanks are silent
..they DO have sounds, but they are almost silent have have been since release

[granite sapphire]

the chargers being silent is intentional iirc

[remote wadi]

Ignoring the bugs that got introduced in some of their updates breaking the game...

Most of their changes have been beneficial in my opinion. The thing the HD community doesn't understand is buffing everything is the same as nerfing the enemies.

And right now, simply because the HD player base is human, we've power creeped to the point where the game engine can't support enough enemies to make the hardest difficulty actually hard.

It's human nature. We hate to see a gun get nerfed because it feels like a punishment.

[remote wadi]

I have a mod to rebalance enemy audio. As well as some other... Fun mods. Lol

[hollow gull]

it isn't intentional, they roar before charging but the audio is bugged. almost everything has broken audio

[remote wadi]

Game engine limitation as well.

[hollow gull]

stalkers... have a decloak noise

they're not supposed to be ninjas

[coarse spindle]

Mmm very good meltdown discussion

[remote wadi]

In addition to the amount of other explosions that muffle their footsteps and such.

[granite sapphire]

i can hear that fine?

idk maybe not always

offtopic anyways

[hollow gull]

stalkers in cosmoteer meltdown

[granite sapphire]

sounds like very intentional game design though i could be wrong. helldivers 2 likes to play with obscuring information whether it be visual or auditory

[lusty zealot]

developmentally and computationally nonfeasible, to my knowledge

[hollow gull]

the community do understand that buffing everything is the same as nerfing enemies but the difficulty on release was unfair rather than fair. they wanted darksouls but they had Takeshi's challenge

[coarse spindle]

Wouldn't using the same thing crew use to measure travel distance in build mode work here?

[hollow gull]

on release, your options were incredibly limited and the game was bugging so the only viable strategy was to manipulate enemy spawns by dragging enemies away from the objective by running. which is why players called it running simulator

[coarse spindle]

Just using pipes instead of corridors

[remote wadi]

You also have to realize the majority of the playerbase is casual players. No headset. Probably on a console.

And most of all, not reading whatever top post on reddit is. Just wanting to play a game to simply play a game. Have fun.

[remote wadi]

They do not.

[hollow gull]

I'm aware that most players are very casual, and the players asking for buffs are the same players posting on the sub, because as you know, the subreddit represents a minority of more experienced players

don't conflate the two

[hollow gull]

I agree that most of Arrowhead's changes have been beneficial, I think they love their game and want it to be fun
...but that doesn't mean they were all smart changes

..like how fire damage was broken and nonfunctional for 6 months, and the playerbase told them
..and arrowhead looked a a spreadsheet and said 'hm, nobody is using fire, let's buff it!!!'
so when the (random) network host used fire it could annihilate enemies, but it was unusable for everyone else

and it took arrowhead months to fix the network code and then nerf fire again

[remote wadi]

You don't have to take my word for it but here's my two cents:

The vast majority of player feedback is bandwagons fueled by memes.

Most of the opinions on balance changes and such are not original opinions. Until recently, most people complaining didn't even play the game during each update to get their own opinion, and if they did, they wouldn't even use the weapon that was changed. They'd just assume it's bad because someone else said it's bad.

I'm quite active in the HD server and have talked to the head CM and many of the moderators about similar issues (and other community-related issues) over the last 12 months. It's a toxic community. But it has gotten better in the last few months. I can even describe the different social behaviors and mentalities in different channels in the HD discord.

Everything in that community should not be taken at face value.

[hollow gull]

we hate to see the railgun get nerfed early on release at the time because it was the only thing that killed bile titans in a meta where they spawned too fast, almost every mission doubled stratagem cooldowns, and you were missing a slot, and the other anti tank weapons were inconsistent, it was the only way to actually play the game instead of running and kiting enemies for 20 minutes

..which I did on max difficulty, and I don't think that it was fun

I would appreciate it if you didn't immediately compare my opinions to those of strawman 16 year olds, because that isn't super respectful

[remote wadi]

At the time, we weren't supposed to be able to take down bile titans with just a couple railgun shots. They were supposed to be boss enemies.

But we've power creeped way past that since then and now even bile titans and factory striders are just another enemy that we plug with one recoilless and move on.

[hollow gull]

I'm a game tester and I care about games and game design

[remote wadi]

I'm not comparing your opinions. I was referencing you referencing the community's opinions.

[lusty zealot]

this discussion is very off topic

[remote wadi]

True.

[hollow gull]

copper if you want to talk about this more you can dm me or ping me in another channel and I'd be happy to discuss

[remote wadi]

I'm down. I'll shoot you a DM if yours are open.

[gloomy raft]

whats that little % that appears when i try to put stuff near the outside of a radiator ?

[agile wolf]

Amount of effective radiation heat sinking, they need open space

[gloomy raft]

so it will add that much extra heat to the thrusters?

[agile wolf]

No, they will be way less effective at removing heat in the pipes

[gloomy raft]

oooh ok

thanks

[hollow gull]

it will apply the heat to very close enemies though

[devout fox]

They're more likely to melt than other parts due to the burst heat generation though, right? I think that balances it out. I've got a railfan which is absolutely not built for overclocked railguns. I overclock them as a last resort, and they melt very quickly.

[tame comet]

really? oc railguns in my experience dont melt very fast at all. they can very easily get a few shots off before succumbing to the heat

[devout fox]

As for using heat dissipation to cool railguns, I do not see that as problematic in elimination, at least. Creating spaces is much more of a design penalty than cooling them with radiators or just ignoring the heat

[devout fox]

A few? Yes. Upwards of 6 with short railguns, I think? But, if your opponent can wait you out, your railguns will melt if you've fired more than one volley

[tame comet]

1 or 2 don't even start fires. depending on the length they can possibly even end the fight because oc railguns op

[tame comet]

more than one? huh

[vague dew]

the centari one is just a perfect copy but with diffrent paint and thats such a centari thing to do

[hollow gull]

if Centauri fanged fighter doesn't have nuclear missiles, then why bother

[gloomy raft]

Can we get the fire extinguisher added to the heat management menu in the build ui please? it seems appropriate all things considered.

[gloomy raft]

why does the mining laser get nerfed in almost every way except range when its overclocked?

[summer cypress]

because it does aoe damage iirc

[hollow gull]

it got a big nerf in this recent update

I think it was a 50% damage nerf or something, on top of my head

[jaunty gyro]

A shame. I've never tried it out but mining laser being used in combat seems like a fun idea for an alternate mode.

[hollow gull]

~750 dps with aoe was comically strong

in practice it was more like 1200 dps with roof mount, easy cooling, massive magazine, and easy to spam

although I wouldn't mind if it were a bit stronger than current

[jaunty gyro]

I'm sure there's a happy medium to be found somewhere.

[gloomy raft]

all of this glosses over the fact that we need a legitimate phaser type weapon in the first place imo

[jaunty gyro]

What's your definition of a phaser?

[gloomy raft]

basically what the mining laser does now except balanced exclusively as a weapon

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-voyager-battle-janeway-dual-attack-mode-hd-phasers-warp10-gif-21114172

[jaunty gyro]

OC large blaster was kinda like that at the start, very quick and accurate. Though that was changed.

[lusty gulch]

So basically a high fire rate short time emitted beam?

Ive been also thinking about creating more weapons, I have many ideas but I cant sprite them .....

[gloomy raft]

yeh but not too short time emitted

[lusty gulch]

Yes but as in not endless fire

[gloomy raft]

yes. exacly

if i wanted to over think it a bit. a phaser typically has 3 phases. charge up, fire and off. see below

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4PijfK1knxw?feature=share

[gloomy raft]

for the lance does it matter where the dilation pump and the amp pump go on the pipe network as long as its connected to the lance it self?

[hollow gull]

it dont matter as long as everything is connected

[gloomy raft]

nice

thanks

[hollow gull]

you can put a radiator in the middle too

[deft tartan]

oi what is in the new update and how to get it

[paper hemlock]

Read the pins

[deft tartan]

he's playing the crew 2.0 closed test

i have the meltdown one

[paper hemlock]

What are you talking about

Wait what

What are they playing

@hollow gull What the hell is the Crew 2.0 Closed Test

[paper hemlock]

Did some research, it's bullshit they changed how discord displays when they play Cosmoteer

[deft tartan]

oh ffs

[deft tartan]

@hollow gull you bad

[hollow gull]

cope

the devs must hate you

[paper hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/tony-tony-chopper-chopper-crying-agony-gif-25439477

[hollow gull]

I would share the preview code, but only a small number of elite players have access at the moment

I'm afraid that you'll have to wait a few months before you get to try it

but what I can tell you, is that it is one of the best updates I have ever played

[narrow blade]

is bro a elite player

[dry willow]

previewpreview

(for meltdown lol)

[narrow blade]

such intelligence

[devout fox]

Code for career 2.0 closed beta is previewpreviewpreview

[deft tartan]

Much obliged man

[hollow gull]

@next urchin crew 2.0 closed test is great so far, but the exosuits are a bit too strong imo, are there plans to tweak this?

[narrow blade]

crazy gaslighting

[deft tartan]

Celeste must hate you...

[narrow blade]

yeah...

they do

probably

[remote wadi]

I knew it was a lie but I had to check anyway.

[narrow blade]

"i k new it was a lie"

so why did you check then?????

ts pmo

[hollow gull]

it is invite only, you need to be personally whitelisted by Walt + write the code

[narrow blade]

talking about "crew 2.0 closed test" in fucking meltdown update preview

not even balance council

[remote wadi]

Oh yes. If I just write career 2.0 myself I can play test it.

[bitter steppe]

Pretending to have access to something that doesn't exist is one way to flex I guess?

[jaunty gyro]

I think it's probably just a joke

[coarse spindle]

Y'all stuck with 2.0 lmao

Couldn't be me

[narrow blade]

i have career 15.0

yall are nothing

[dark lily]

As a member of the dev team they're full of shit and should be ignored

[narrow blade]

saris i didnt know you are part of the dev team

[dark lily]

I guess strictly speaking I'm a much lower rung member

However, they're spreading misinformation and are verifiably wrong

[hollow gull]

I was just doing a little prank

[bitter steppe]

From what I've read through chat I didn't see them neccessarily offering access. That would be a blatant violation of the rules. But joking about it because you changed your app name isn't really harmful

[narrow blade]

guys i have cosmoteer!!!!!!! the exclamation marks obviously mean that i have the best version of cosmoteer

[deft tartan]

did he break NDA

😔

[deft tartan]

what

you mean there's no crew update?..

with the exoskeletons and all?

https://tenor.com/view/cat-crying-cat-cat-meme-cat-crying-meme-crying-cat-meme-gif-1182720488497099882

I trusted you...

[deft tartan]

what's the preview code

[narrow blade]

3

[near jewel]

will any mods work on the preview?

[lusty zealot]

some mods might, most probably won't

you're welcome to try but plan around them not working

[next urchin]

You must be more elite than me, because no one told me about the crew 2.0 update 💀

[hollow gull]

oh man

Walt must hate you

[remote wadi]

I see you guys playin'

[remote wadi]

So we can't tell them about Cosmoteer 2: The Recosmoteering?

[hollow gull]

you're going to get in so much trouble for leaking that

[wraith flicker]

are there guides yet for how to use the meltdown mechanics or is it still just "experiment with it"?
If there's no guides because its not official yet, fair enough, but thought I'd ask since the preview's been out for a hot minute and when I first tried the preview I just got overwhelmed and gave up and didn't try it (or at least didn't play much)

[lusty zealot]

i believe plaus did make an overview on youtube, though it may be somewhat outdated by the frequent changes by now

but experimenting is still the recommended way to go

my advice is just focus on one thing at a time

pick an overclock and try make it work without melting

[wraith flicker]

is that more just explaining what's different rather than like build guides?

[lusty zealot]

quite frankly i dunno, i didn't watch it

[wraith flicker]

lmfao fair

[lusty zealot]

[here](#media message) it is

[granite sapphire]

no, if you want help you can ask or join excelsior, the elimination pvp server, as we are basically permanently playing on the preview now and are very familiar with the mechanics

people are very willing to help

as am i

the general gist is that parts can be overclocked for powerful new effects, but they produce heat that has to be removed via cooling systems

[wraith flicker]

oo
side note I never considered pvp for cosmoteer really
I think I'm already in that server for the CoM calculator bot thing, but I should check out playing pvp

[granite sapphire]

its a fun time. theres no better time to get into pvp than when a major content update is around the corner

[wraith flicker]

another side note, does the preview still crash a lot?
or is it stableish?

[granite sapphire]

stable enough from my experience

still some crashes tho

[wraith flicker]

how often would you say you crash on average (like how many minutes between crashes on average)

[lusty zealot]

well i just did a coop career this morning for something like 4 hours and it only crashed once at the end

there was also 1 desync partway through

[mild gazelle]

I havent had a crash the past two weeks

[wraith flicker]

damn 4 hours is nice

[mild gazelle]

I just play pvp though

[lusty zealot]

singleplayer creative i haven't had a crash at the very least since the last update

[wraith flicker]

I think I was just hoping it was less often than once every 30 minutes or smtn lmaoo

[lusty zealot]

oh yeah it's well past that point

[wraith flicker]

side note there have been So Many updates on the preview since I last checked in damn (I think I last checked in when 0.29.0 blog post was announced on steam)

[lusty zealot]

yeah

celeste's been working hard

[paper hemlock]

Do not join Excelsior it's a cesspool

[near flax]

nah it's pretty good at this point

there have been times where it's been pretty bad but it's at a solid state

[granite sapphire]

lol thanks for letting me know

[lusty zealot]

in what way and how could the mods of that server (of which i am one) improve it?

[next urchin]

Which crash was that? Did you report it?

[lusty zealot]

didn't report it, i think it was a fastparalleltask one. something about -2200000 or smth can't be greater than 0

once i'm back on the PC i'll try remember to report it

[next urchin]

Oh that's not great 🤔
Those are usually to do with heat network resource storages

[lusty zealot]

i don't think anyone was doing anything out of the ordinary

the 2 people i was playing with were salvaging a wrecked pirate base (may have been doing some building) while i was exploring for PoIs

[dry willow]

Did the bug about everything getting de-overclocked when repairing ships in coop get reported already?

[lusty zealot]

not a bug, intended behaviour. overclock is automatically disabled while construction/repair is ongoing, to prevent situations in which overclocked parts get temporarily disconnected from a thermal system and cause loops of a part overheating and needing to be rebuilt and overheating again etc

overclocking is automatically re-enabled once construction is complete

though i believe toggling any overclocks while construction is ongoing may mess with that re-enabling though, i believe

[dry willow]

oooooh shit really?!

[lusty zealot]

yeah

[wraith flicker]

is there a way to make it so theparts that have subtabs either expand into the current tab, or to revert the subtab thing?

[next urchin]

If you toggle overclock during the construction shutdown, it will not return to its previous state

[next urchin]

Use the favourites (right click, or middle click for quick-favourite), or it's pretty easy for a mod to do

[wraith flicker]

so no, gotcha

[lusty gulch]

Could we also get a way to shortcut to a whole EditorGroup?

[next urchin]

The function keys do that

F1->12

[lusty gulch]

Let me rephrase, could we get a way similar to the Subtabs? As in instead having just one part (armor 1x1) in defenses shortcutting to a subtab, could it shortcut to its actual EditorGroup?

[next urchin]

#1019739575683399840

[stuck roost]

@next urchin TCM retained their values from halved combat speed, their theorical output used to be 1750heat/s compared to radiators 550heat/s, so they should be 3500heat/s (14000 per missiles) when radiators are at 1100heat/s

[next urchin]

Which values?

Oh, the fill time

Fixed

[stuck roost]

Heat per missile and I believe the fire rate as it stood on 0.25 like halved combat speed

shouldn't it be higher since the stats values are meant for 1x speed? It should be 0.5 per second (0.25 on 1/2x) if I'm not mistaken

[remote charm]

Lmao bro you don't need to be jealous just because walt won't let you see the exosuits

[next urchin]

The heat per missile is unrelated to game speed and was not changed. The reload timer was still at the half-speed value, too, though. Fixed that as well

[remote charm]

it's a radical new method of game development. Walt randomly released the exosuit to a small percentage of the player base

[stuck roost]

The heat per missile is unrelated to game speed and was not changed.
I realised I made a lap of logic in my judgement

7500 used to exausted in 4 seconds at 1x, now it's exausted in 4 seconds at 1/2x. All is good

[stuck roost]

Side note I have calculated the damage of overclock ions to 1800-5400 per seconds, with an average of 3600 (unless theorical values differ from practical ones but that wouldn't make sense)

The math for it was Surprisingly simple! Ions currently run at 10 tick a second and apply damages every tick

that makes me think @next urchin why don't overclock ions have a "damage per second" stat?

[next urchin]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[gloomy raft]

bumping this cos i dont know where to put ideas and feedback for stuff thats not been released yet

[next urchin]

#1019739575683399840
But don't bother for this one, I'll chuck it in now 😇

Discord, why is that :innocent:? It's literally a halo??

[gloomy raft]

lol taa

[next urchin]

How has no one pointed out by now that OC small reactors say 16 power capacity but actually have 24

[granite sapphire]

oh fr?

wait what?

do you mean medium

[next urchin]

Small