Meltdown Update Preview

[grim gyro]

my 32 oc ml ship struggled to break through a couple of decently supplied non oc ls but dismantled anything with armour

[stuck roost]

I don't think you are supposed to use mining lasers in battles

Though I'd admit it's infinite fun

[split nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/nishiki-nishikiyama-akira-akira-yakuza-yakuza-0-gif-14463911024578981306

the thermal resonance isn't very good with shield either ?

[grim gyro]

no its great against them

add some dilation pumps

[split nexus]

aight thanks

like how much ?

[grim gyro]

idk maybe 6 or 8?

[split nexus]

DAMN

okay i'm doing horrible

[split nexus]

do you have any good thermal resonance setup for example ?

[grim gyro]

no but you just need to connect both outputs to a pipe which leads to the trl

like this

[split nexus]

do we also need amplification pumps ?

[grim gyro]

depends if you want to melt stuff or kill shields

[stuck roost]

@grim gyro Are you sure of your claims? Last update greatly nerfed TRL power against shields

[grim gyro]

oh damn

idk then

[stuck roost]

Nobody did extensive testings so far

[split nexus]

first time i'm trying it and it's horrible against shield yeah

[stuck roost]

lmao it's fine just don't give outdated information

[stuck roost]

Even with 6-8 amplifications pumps?

[grim gyro]

i didnt know they were nerfed

im glad of it though

[stuck roost]

• Thermal Resonance Lance:
  • Increased base heat pool (1,800/s→2,250/s)
    • Rebalanced Shield Overload:
      • Now builds up to max value over 3 seconds (was instant)
      • Reduced base value (50%→4.4%)
      • Reduced value per amplification (1.25%→0.6%)
      • Reduced value per dilation (16.5%→10%)

[grim gyro]

hell yeah

[stuck roost]

-# duscird method for sub points is really horrible, you got to spam spaces

[grim gyro]

you can use ">+space"

bleh

although that looks weird

[stuck roost]

Though you could say according t these numbers you just need 1.5 times the amount of pumps of older setups + 5 to get rouyghjly the same efficency as prebuff

Please use #bot-commands if you have testings to do (or even better your private server)

[next urchin]

Discord's formatting is very strange.

[split nexus]

can we make the Thermal Lance shoot indefinitely ?

[lost sapphire]

Yes so long as you have enough cooling, crew, and power supply

[vague aurora]

Big enough of a fan to cool those overheated plates down, though?

Yes, they have sustained damage and a very low one at that. Even combat-oriented ion beams struggle against shield.

Also why the heck was mining laser NERFED??

It already had pitiful damage now it's worse.

[lost sapphire]

Iirc it was strong in domination

Some said too strong

It was "a roof mounted HL, and that's not right"
-# or something along those lines

[vague aurora]

Glory to the roof mounted heavy laser!

[tame comet]

from what i know its damage was absolutely fucking cracked out of its mind

[frigid flax]

Not of real revelance but if you put a \ before a formatting tag it won't format
Example

text
> text

[frigid flax]

Yeah

Oc mining laser + trl should shred things at unnecessary speeds

Shields did hard counter it though

[quasi meteor]

bro 😭

[hollow gull]

@grim gyro @tranquil wedge im pretty sure mining lasers are bugged against shields and sometimes do not damage them

i posted about it above, should have submitted a bug report in hindsight but I think celeste saw it anyway

this

something to do with when a shield is taken down, and then goes back up

the laser impacts the shield, but does not damage it, only dealing splash to other shields

[vague dew]

like the "ghost pipe" on the ends of the vents

[jaunty gyro]

Can you remind me of what that looks like? I don't have the game open atm.

[vague dew]

i mean raditors

the dark part

i stole the pic from the replyed message

[jaunty gyro]

Maybe yeah. It does make for a good contrast against the orange piping.

[vague dew]

but how would it work with the structure pipes?

[jaunty gyro]

No idea, I haven't used them much yet

[gloomy raft]

fire extinguisher overclocking??

[near flax]

faster fire extinguisher reload rate

[narrow blade]

now why does this happen

[gloomy raft]

ok, if its not cooled does it also catch fire?

[near flax]

unsure

[quasi jewel]

Weird

[tranquil wedge]

Huh

[near flax]

i dont understand whats weird, could you explain?

[quasi jewel]

The shield capacity of the oc small shield is no different from that of the ordinary small shield, but the ordinary small shield has been broken through more quickly

[vague aurora]

So you're telling me overclocked small shield has a mere 15000 hp post rework?

That is pathetic.

[jaunty gyro]

I think the idea is to make it a low cost big shield that can be inside armor?

Having the HP too high would make it just completely better than the big shield

[jaunty gyro]

Actually can someone explain the purpose of heat pipe structure? The mass and hit points are the exact same as normal heat pipe. They can't be shot through. I'm not sure I understand the reason to use them.

[dark lily]

Strictly visual

[jaunty gyro]

Ahh, good to know at least.

[stuck roost]

Could it be it still transfer some damage to heat?

[quasi jewel]

No

[quasi jewel]

@stuck roost

[stuck roost]

Oh gosh that's really a weird behavior

[stuck roost]

Looking at the rule files I suspect it losses less battry per damage when overclock than not

...shields does not really have set HP it's bound to their energy storage

[gloomy raft]

anyone know if overclocked fire extinguishers themselves catch fire without cooling. whats the penalty?

[high robin]

Aren't the heat weapons too OP ?

how does somebody with out anti heat system work arround it ?

[lusty zealot]

nope

at least i hope not

[lusty zealot]

by killing the enemy before they kill you, same as any other weapon

[high robin]

nah, compare it to deck cannons.

Those if you have shield spam or armor spam is fine. it will take a while for them to get u, but those heat ones are insanely strong

they melt armor and they burn everything if you have a shield xD

[lusty zealot]

they take a while to do that though

and also compare based on cost, mass, space, crew, or material investment

yeah a TRL with a load of pumps will be melting things a lot better than a deck cannon breaks them

but it might cost like 20x the amount

regular defences work just fine against them, though they are effective against armour i will give you that

they won't immediately break it though, and they'll take a while to build up dangerous heat in shields unless it's a very big TRL

[high robin]

with that i destroy shields xD

i like the anti armor thing

finally something to counter armor spam

me is scared bout shields tho, you mix it with some disruptors and gg

[jaunty gyro]

I made a ship so extremely inefficient just to see, and yes. In fact, the fire can get bad enough to briefly start killing people in between the very fast extinguisher respawns.

[gloomy raft]

what..😂

so just so im clear

fire extinguishers can be overclocked

but if u overclock them without cooling them they self combust..

[lusty zealot]

but how long does it take you, and how much less investment could you need to destroy shields as quickly?

[gloomy raft]

is that right?

[jaunty gyro]

They'll combust but they only generate heat if someone is actively grabbing a fire extinguisher to go stop a fire. So either you have to make the most hilariously inefficient ship possible where your crew is constantly running to stop fires, or, you have to have the mother of all fires happening on your ship and at that point the fire extinguisher igniting is not much of a difference.

I'm not gonna do the math but even if you just had one OC extinguisher on a ship with no way to vent heat, your crew can just extinguish the fire instantly as it's starting

[gloomy raft]

right i see.

fair enough.

thats still hilarious

[jaunty gyro]

Extremely

[gloomy raft]

in your hour of greatest need.

[eager gyro]

thats a nice meme

[granite sapphire]

kill them faster, trl are decent against armor but very questionable even against entirely uncooled shields and the likes

[lusty gulch]

What does OC disruptor do?

[eager gyro]

peirces armor, and does a drain efect for a bit

[lofty escarp]

do i post bug stuff here? for thermal lance previiiew?

im not sure

im gonna go try it on my own quickly

this is on multiplayer

oh its already been reported

[eager gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-obi-wan-anakin-gif-22039861

[vague aurora]

Let's ask the ethical question... How does one.... overclock a fire extinguisher?

[narrow blade]

pipe

[vague aurora]

I'm assuming you overclock the lil' fire extinguisher "factory" block so it can generate lil' extinguishers faster.

[narrow blade]

you just like. tape a piece of pipe onto it and it magically connects to the heat network

[stuck roost]

overclock the printer darling
not the tube itself

[vague aurora]

I hope you don't actually heat up a literal extinguisher.

Ice overclocking coming soon!!1!

[narrow blade]

ok so you see the heat makes the atosm that make up the fire extinguisher move faster so that the atoms rearrange into said fire extinguisher fsater than usual

[vague aurora]

Tinpotty stop giving people aneurism

(I know you'll just reply with "no")

[narrow blade]

nick please forgive me for my transgressions against public decency

also its aneurysm

[vague aurora]

Thou have been pardoned by the parochial council

[narrow blade]

tysm 🙏 😇

[narrow blade]

such peak shields

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone Thanks for testing the latest Meltdown preview! Here's a small patch to fix a handful of bugs from Friday's preview.

• Fixed ‘no component “Port_Up”’ crash on hovering a pipe blueprint over another part
• Fixed area ‘splash’ damage not registering on shields moving away from the hit point
• Fixed crash when attaching two Thermal Lance ports to the same OC part (due to duplicate inbound routes errantly marking a node as a subnetwork member)
• Fixed salvaged parts (including asteroids) dropping fewer resources than intended
• Fixed incorrect per-second Heat Generation stat values on overclocked ammo/missile factories
• Fixed overclocked shields not producing heat for the damage instance that depletes their energy

[narrow blade]

hi

[lusty zealot]

yipeee

[near flax]

yippee!

[narrow blade]

top 10 peak sundivers

[deft tartan]

heck yeah walt i just had a massive crashout over the mining loss bug

the patch couldn't come with better timing

[rough shuttle]

Oh is that what sundivers are? ships that go within the suns radius?

[narrow blade]

yes...

[rough shuttle]

Didnt know when people were casually mentioning it, thanks

[plucky fossil]

a ship that "dives" into the sun danger

[rough shuttle]

Why may i ask? any strategy? or just for the fun of it.

[narrow blade]

valuable asteroids in sun radius

[plucky fossil]

try it and you will find out

[rough shuttle]

Ive seen that but i see like.. 2?

are there many closer to the sun?

[narrow blade]

idfk

never bother actually going there

[rough shuttle]

yeah me neither. a cheese of cosmoteer i found not to long ago also involves the sun, i came up with it myself but im 99% sure others have done it a lot

like its so easy, but yeah, a cheese, so not fun to do really

[narrow blade]

are hte shields still invulnerable to the sun

[rough shuttle]

Havent tested but the bug fixes dont really seem to mention it..

[narrow blade]

they seem to be

[rough shuttle]

damn lol

maybe no mods/walt saw it?

[narrow blade]

i hate how the only way to get heat out of blocks is to heat exchanger it

[rough shuttle]

i mean if it were easier, wont thermal reconance beams become worthless if another ship just has a lot of cooling

[narrow blade]

i would think heat pipes would be able to transport heat that is on them???

[rough shuttle]

maybe a bit? not to much

[cerulean prairie]

The answer is that the sun heat is my bug not Celeste's bug and I was busy all weekend.

[rough shuttle]

Oh okay! thats fair.

[lusty zealot]

if you pour water on the outside of a pipe the pipe isn't going to move that water

[narrow blade]

i dont think water is the most fitting analogy for heat

[rough shuttle]

not really the same.. if its cold inside the pipe and there is a fluid to transport the heat, the heat from the exterior will go into the pipe. heating it up, and the heat gets tranfered away, but to a limit ofcourse

so maybe they could take away a bit of heat from themselfs, but not a lot.

[narrow blade]

last time i checked wasnt metal like. heat conductive and stuff

[pure salmon]

You wouldn't want the heat running through your heat pipes to spill out onto the surrounding areas though, right?

[next urchin]

There are no one-way thermal conductors. If heat pipes absorb heat, they must also leak heat.

[bitter steppe]

With one-way pipes and toggling launchers to allow heat to pass through we'd be one step closer to logic gates and computers

[flat skiff]

what is medium thruster?

[eager gyro]

this one

[flat skiff]

standard ok

[plucky fossil]

why not

game logix

[next urchin]

Because the only justification for heat pipes absorbing heat is that it makes sense, which it doesn't make sense

[plucky fossil]

makes sense to me :(

[tranquil cape]

i feel like a one way heat pipe would be possible in a scifi environment like this one
could even be explained like a switch: allows heat flow when the heat on one the front side is lower than back other but otherwise doesn't

[narrow owl]

The way heat pipes work irl it's not very feasible to make them flow heat only 1 direction unless you're spending energy to heat one side and cool the other.

Heat pipes irl are hollow copper with a high inside surface area and a small amount of water inside to evaporate, go where it's cool, liquefy, flow to where it's hot, and again.

Heat always goes from hot to cold

[tranquil cape]

counterpoint: this is a game that includes energy shields and self powering engines

even if doing this costed energy its probably still feasibly explainable
"dynamo assisted directional heat pipe"

[narrow owl]

Energy shields are science fiction but they're not looking impossible to make.

Hyperdrives however

Also there not a lot of point in making a heat diode.

[tranquil cape]

heat canister missiles would benefit greatly
there's probably not much else to it though

[next urchin]

Directional heat pipes are a separate issue to heat pipes absorbing heat

Directional pipes are also not technically feasible because the thermal network isn't defined by flow, it's defined by accessibility

So TCMs and radiators would be unable to pull heat through a one-way pipe

[tranquil cape]

just do something jank like thermal missile canisters except the absorbed heat is then transfered to the network connecting infront from the behind one

[granite sapphire]

what? tcms dont do that

they dont do anything jank

[tranquil cape]

jank as in the entire idea not tcms

though technically with friendly fire they are already useable as one way heat pipes

[vague aurora]

Impressive how much armour you can pile in front of a shield, but this still feels like an ability best reserved to a medium shield, this feels way too unnatural for a small shield to be doing, and the armoured shield that use their shields to spread damage were so much cooler with the previous SS iteration.

[lusty gulch]

Does the small get weaker when spread out?

[vague aurora]

I really don't enjoy this bizarre large shield doppleganger.

[vague aurora]

Pretty sure it's the same hp

[granite sapphire]

anything is usable as a one way heat pipe with friendly fire

[granite sapphire]

same hp

i personally am a huge fan of oc ss

its a lot more interesting now imo to build with

at least for smaller scale ships

[vague aurora]

Also I see OC large shield was significantly nerfed.

But has much of the same abilities as before.

[granite sapphire]

its substantially worse now

[vague aurora]

EMP resistance feels a weird thing to have, maybe just emp hitting it generates far less heat.

You could cook an enemy system with emp spam easily

[granite sapphire]

especially with oc caps nerfed; i think that might have been the single hardest hitting nerf more than any other

[granite sapphire]

? its just a maths thing

[vague aurora]

What do you mean.

[granite sapphire]

bc emp directly leeches battery so u need to give it seperate emp res to behave as it has double hp

[vague aurora]

33% like it saps that much less energy right

[granite sapphire]

damage resistance doesnt make it resistant to emp

[vague aurora]

Yes obviously

EMP doesn't deal damage

[granite sapphire]

well, you seemed confused

so i explained it

[vague aurora]

Does EMP sacking energy heat it up?

Produces heat I mean.

[granite sapphire]

no

unfortunately

makes it very bad vs oc ls

[vague aurora]

Hmm...

Then the emp resistance is pretty unwarranted.

[narrow owl]

No, but it doesn't get stronger

[jaunty gyro]

I think it's a decent tradeoff for the increased size. It's not stronger but if you need that shielding in one specific spot it could be a lifesaver.

and I don't do diagonal ships much but I hear it's great for those?

[crimson osprey]

If OCLS didn’t have EMP resistance, EMP would be just as effective against them as they are against non-OCLS which seems weird since their shtick is being stronger. The EMP value changed along with the HP nerf in order to preserve EMP’s relative effectiveness against them compared to regular weapons.

[vague aurora]

Nice.

[grizzled sentinel]

i love that you can build a bubble shield for the small ships

idk looks cool,but useless

[jaunty gyro]

Shield talk reminds me, might be a good idea to change the shield look in blueprint mode if overclocking is enabled. Like if you set the shield to overclock it should show only the overclocked coverage. Just to cut down on visual clutter.

[remote wadi]

I don't know if this is a preview issue or not but I was messing around with this thruster arrangement and randomly the crews assigned to power certain engine rooms just won't do it. That whole block will lose power and then later they'll decide to start powering it. The crews just sit in their rooms reading manga with the engine boosters right next to them unpowered.

My best guess was an AI issue where they can't find the jobs or only check for jobs every X seconds/ticks and don't check for the engine rooms requesting power for the boosters frequently enough.

[crimson osprey]

Hard to say without viewing your crew and power assignments

[remote wadi]

They're all identical.

The discrepancy isn't with assignments or roles (roles are identical for each section as well). It just randomly happens where both engine rooms next to each other will stop requesting power until they completely run out.

Even after the engine room runs out of power, the crew assigned to power it will stand there for a while not doing anything. I'm currently counting some crew at 1x speed not doing anything for 30 seconds.

~37 seconds after the engine room and all boosters ran out of power, then they decided to power it up again.

[crimson osprey]

What does the rest of your ship look like? You could be at the crew tasking cap

[remote wadi]

It's basically just this engine block. 232 crew currently.

I do think it must be a limit of queueing/handling crew tasks.

That's the only thing I can think of that would make this kind of behavior.

Too many permutations of power supply and demand to consider, each for over 200 crew assigned to do the power stuff.

[crimson osprey]

Try removing your capacitors and feeding your ERs directly from your LRs. That should greatly lower the tasking and might be more efficient anyway

[remote wadi]

If I add fuel pods between the thrusters/boosters and the ERs, do the thrusters and boosters lose the bonus thrust from the ER? Do boosters even get bonus thrust from ERs?

[crimson osprey]

Boosters benefit from adjacent ERs. Fuel pods don’t

I’d suggest putting them on the outboard side, but if you’re crew capped it might not be helpful until you drop the capacitors

[remote wadi]

Just using LRs, no caps, if I use two fuel pods per row, they'll never lose power but it means I don't get the thrust bonus.

With one fuel pod per row, I think the thrust is increased but there's sporadic power issues.

I don't think it's suffering from job tasking though.

[remote wadi]

They are effectively on the outside. I just stacked another MRT on the outside because the power will feed through to the fuel pods into those too without needing engine rooms on the other side

The outer MRT never actually gets power put in it. It just runs off the fuel pods for the first MRT.

But this design did solve the task limit issue 👍

And requires about 100 less crew.

[crimson osprey]

Good deal. This is no longer a tasking or meltdown issue, so happy building!

[remote wadi]

Now to overclock the whole thing...

[gloomy raft]

wait hold on

last time i tried meltdown there were markers for attaching pipes to each item

now they are gone

did the whole game move to heat exchangers only when i wasnt looking??

[lusty zealot]

pipes only attach to actively overclocked parts now

for visual clarity

[gloomy raft]

😦

so i have to set it to catch fire before i pipe it up?

[plucky fossil]

bad change ngl

[lusty zealot]

?

[lusty zealot]

why?

[plucky fossil]

i thought it looked ok before and now it looks less good

and the graphic changes more

[gloomy raft]

im trying to experiment with stuff. and under some circumstances this change means i have to turn the thing on tup properly no?

other question

some weapons dont seem to have overclocked stats

are they still being worked on or are the tooltips just missing?

[lusty zealot]

what?

pipes will automatically connect to overclocked parts when overclock is toggled

[lusty zealot]

have you hit Ctrl to show the overclocked stats?

[gloomy raft]

yeh

some are there some arent for some reason

[gloomy raft]

nvm power gens only generate heat relative to usage so my experimental builds wont just start cooking themselves. my b

[lusty zealot]

every weapon should have an overclock

you sure you're not just hitting ctrl when you've already got the overclock stats toggled on?

it does persist between hovering over different parts

[gloomy raft]

the ion beam emitter doesnt have one for example

doesnt even ask me to hit ctrl

other stuff has it but not everything

[lusty zealot]

that's odd.

oh wait i see what's happening, it seems to be an issue with the new sub-tab system

[lusty zealot]

click on the ion emitter there

it'll open up a sub-tab showing ion emitter and ion prism, the overclocked stats on the emitter should show up from there

[gloomy raft]

ooooh

[lusty zealot]

you just found a bug, thanks

[gloomy raft]

nice

[lusty zealot]

feel free to stick that in #1019741923893858305

[gloomy raft]

welp im actually QA by trade so, you're welcome 😊 (that will be £34.99 by minimum rate j/k)

how do i get these pipes to curve to the heat exchanger?

(im assuming that weapons and other modules dont act as heat transfer)

[lusty zealot]

pipe crossings can only be straight

[gloomy raft]

oh thats what ive done.

cheers

[lusty zealot]

you'll also need to rotate the exchanger so its port attaches to the pipe rather than the laser

[lusty zealot]

with the exception of dedicated thermal parts (stuff in the thermal tab plus TCM launchers) you are correct

[gloomy raft]

other than it taking shadow damage, what means do i have of knowing whether something is adequately cooled during overclocked use?

[lusty zealot]

seeing if it catches on fire

if it doesn't, all good

there's also a heat generation/dissipation/storage thing by the stats in build mode

[gloomy raft]

so i keep being told to repair this for zero credits. but how do i know that the cooling wasnt enough in the first place?

[bitter steppe]

add a thermal battery

[gloomy raft]

ah. i see it. thanks

[lusty zealot]

also do bear in mind that heat exchangers have a limit to how much heat they can exchange per time

pipes do not

[gloomy raft]

noted

it would be nice if during testing i could be told the net heat transfer of an individual module

as opposed to just an overall score for the ship

[lusty zealot]

like, how much heat the selected parts are generating?

[gloomy raft]

yeh

not just generating

in vs out

so the stats will say this is how much it generates but if ive got heat exchangers in an area it'd be nice to know what is happening in practice for each module

[lusty zealot]

mmm, that could be handy

[gloomy raft]

yeh so like this lil test bed for example. ion generates 1k exchangers remove 900 but the reactors whilst hardly used are also OC'd and i have no real way of knowing what the effective rate of cooling during various usage scenarios is without doing maths or rigorous testing (both of which i could do but dont always want to). I also dont know if stuff in range of the heat exchangers is cooled by them even when its piped up or not.

not sure if this is intended but heat exchangers seem to operate on nearby items that are also piped up

[bitter steppe]

Heat Exchangers absorb heat from the hull. If you're generating more heat than you can dissipate, or more than a heat exchanger is able to absorb, the heat overflows into the part that generated it instead

So even if something is piped up you can exceed your thermal and dissipation capacity and get heat overflow

with a thermal battery you have a bit of a buffer to allow your radiators some time to vent the heat and heat exchangers to absorb excess heat

Heat Exchangers also have some thermal inefficiency, so they generate more heat than they absorb

[gloomy raft]

yeh i added more radiators but it turned out its cos the generators were not piped up and the increased power load from the reactors pushed the exchangers over enough for fire. thanks

is this intentional? the oc beam on the left was touching the test target until i turned it to junk for fire testing then now it sort of hovers awkwardly nearby.

[eager gyro]

yep it does lightning strike efects

[gloomy raft]

yeh thats fine im just surprised the beam just stops in space first

[eager gyro]

example, (slightly out dated tho since they dont do nealy that much damage now)

[gloomy raft]

this is what i was expecting it to look like when it hit a target

i have no issue with the lighting effect

[frigid flax]

how do multiple TRL connected to one heat system interact with dilators and amplifiers?

do they split it evenly or does one take all the buffs?

tested it out and it seems like that 2 TRL's will act like the buff parts twice

this should be fully powered but 2 TRL uses double the power

[next urchin]

Yeah I've been meaning to do this since I made it possible with showing ports and changing heat generation stat values

[jaunty gyro]

Glad to hear it's in the works at least! 👍

[frigid flax]

finally

and ill use tcm to dispose of the heat 🔥

ignore the one amplifier thats not connected

[next urchin]

It's not quite 2x. There's an efficiency loss. Haven't represented it in the stats yet, but I think 2 ends up being more like 1.8x total buff

[next urchin]

The issue with it hitting is that it implies the beam itself is doing damage, imo

It's modelled after the ion nebulae

[frigid flax]

so if i have 5 of em i only get like 50% of the buff?

[next urchin]

You'd get like 60% (random number) of the buff for each beam, so more in total but less per beam

I'm sure someone has done the calculations

(I have, but I don't have the graph on hand)

[frigid flax]

does that diminishing value also apply to power consumption? i assume not

[next urchin]

No, power is a direct multiple

[frigid flax]

ok

thx

[near flax]

ive done some playing around with tcms in domination, they dont really have any noticable offensive effect, to the point that the first ship is often better that the second ship purely based around a cost/effectiveness ratio

it may be due to the fact that the tcms are side mounted

but it could also be indicitive of a larger issue

imo tcms should have different heat absorbed/heat inflicted amounts and/or tcm acceleration and turning needs to be tuned a bit

[lusty zealot]

@tranquil wedge i think was doing that

[lusty zealot]

i think it might be because of the increase to passive heat loss speed that happened a while back

the TCM's heat dissipates too fast for it to be effective as an offensive tool

[delicate moss]

I agree, I'm a big fan of the old OC shield for largely the same reasons and I hope it's brought back

converting damage into heat is a really, really cool concept!

[next urchin]

It's currently only about 1.6x as fast as it was before that patch.

[next urchin]

Both shields still do that, and the large shield OC is the same as it was

[lusty zealot]

really? wasn't it 0.05/s to 0.5/s?

[next urchin]

It was increased to 3.3x and then decreased by half, according to the patch notes.

[delicate moss]

yeah, but without the "damage efficiency" it doesn't feel the same

now, the heat is used to stabilize a larger arc and handle damage rather than the shield converting damage into heat

[next urchin]

Oh, that's the passive dissipation. 0.5/s is really not that consequential in combat, I don't think

[lusty zealot]

without continuous heat input i think it definitely is

[near flax]

turns out missiles just kinda arent that good in dom

i still support the diffent heat absorbtion/heat dealt stats

[next urchin]

Given that dangerous heat starts at like 350 with low percentages, the passive dissipation is at most 0.14% loss per second

Diffusion has a much bigger impact at 1% of the heat difference per adjacent tile

[jaunty gyro]

I think part of it has to do with the fact they're modeled after HE missiles, which are meant for saturation. Given the heat missiles require fuel essentially, it's harder to achieve a useful level of saturation, especially when you account for the amount that don't reach the intended target.

[granite sapphire]

is an oc cg rework ever gonna happen

[next urchin]

Yes. Next patch.

[plucky fossil]

yipee

[tame comet]

oh shit nice

[frigid flax]

what

have i made

[tame comet]

is the left and rightmost flak overclocked

if yes: you may have fortten pipes

fortten?

forgotten

[frigid flax]

fixed it the second you replyed

[lusty zealot]

god i love OC flak

oh, you're shooting at me? no

that reminds me i wanted to make a suggestion post

[frigid flax]

time to make this look good

[next urchin]

Is it getting castle paint? It should get castle paint

[frigid flax]

yessir

[next urchin]

We love castle themed ships

[tame comet]

is there an example of castle themed paint? im curious now

[frigid flax]

just in case

[next urchin]

In Cosmoteer, I'm not sure, but From the Depths has plenty. They have an entire castle-themed faction

[lusty zealot]

onyx watch (:

[frigid flax]

i feel like nick would be able to pull this off really well

[granite sapphire]

ow is peak

i feel the biggest issue is that its hard to translate the aesthetic in a particularly dynamic way onto a 2d canvas

[languid basin]

FtD mention!!!!

[delicate moss]

Sir..

[languid basin]

SD vs Centauri Imperium who wins

[delicate moss]

imperium no doubt, those nuke volleys carve through anything

SD'd largest craft wouldn't be able to get out of the way

[languid basin]

If they can even get close, combat in FTD usually ranges in 1km-3km

[delicate moss]

hmm, true

[languid basin]

but with how slow FTD craft are yeah the imperium could probably throw enough ships to get through and close the distance

[frigid flax]

i forgot factories need power 😭

[languid basin]

how 😭

[frigid flax]

too much mindustry

[next urchin]

SD space craft are built to fight planetary forces, though

[next urchin]

They need power in mindustry, too, though

[frigid flax]

usually i just place a power node and call it a day

[granite sapphire]

oc deck cannons still desperately need a nerf imo

their gimmick of shooting slower for more damage per shot needs to be dialed back somehow

also they probably need to produce a bit more heat

[next urchin]

As in, still after their like 15-20% damage loss in the last big patch?

[granite sapphire]

yes

they are problematically overpowered in domination still

and just still strong in elim

mostly because the trade off for burst damage is almost always incredibly powerful and worth it in these modes for obvious reasons

and the projectile speed and range increase is very op in dom

[next urchin]

Interesting. We'll see as the patch matures a little. I've got other stuff to work on before going at another broad balance pass

[granite sapphire]

where their effective range and speed makes them undodgable and play like railguns

the most stupid part of their playstyle is how ppl make their ships fully spin and set the dcs to fire on target and they basically act like railspinners

no micro and makes the ship basically unkillable railspinner

[lusty zealot]

i do think OCDC projectile speed should be fast, but i wouldn't be against toning that down a little bit. they're a little too close to rails right now i think

[frigid flax]

monstrosity

[granite sapphire]

guys this might be crazy but what if we reworked how ocdc works entirely

like what if they have self propelled lightly homing bullets

gyrojets

the current tradeoff isnt rly interesting and is either overpowered or just boring

[lusty zealot]

they did have a volley-fire for most of the council-only testing

it was balanced quite well, could potentially be worth revisiting if the current OCDC is really found to be unworkable

[granite sapphire]

like the whole discourse here has been "ok we know we have to nerf them but if we actually nerf them to being balanced that would probably make them boring and uniniteresting"

[lusty zealot]

though it might be too close conceptually to OCSC

[granite sapphire]

doesnt that show something problematic

in terms of basic design

[next urchin]

It was the same in terms of speed/range. Only difference would be they couldn't be used in a spinner, I guess?

[granite sapphire]

i think volley fire also seems rly op tho im not sure

[plucky fossil]

make them splash damage

and diverge shots a bit

[lusty zealot]

it would have less brutal instant burst due to the volley spreading the damage out over time

could be worth increasing OCDC spread to be the same as or more than base DC?

[plucky fossil]

arc like

[granite sapphire]

i think we should ditch the alt pen mechanic, tone down shot speed, and instead let them fire like lightly homing shots that accelerate over time

[plucky fossil]

alternate can have arc go straight forwards due to less burst

[granite sapphire]

if we want the ranged artillery gimmick without the stupid alpha burst and oneshot potential i think thats the best solution

[lusty zealot]

would keep it able to be used at range but make it more of an inaccurate battleship-style 'bombard that area' than the current which is a bit close to rails' focus ability

[plucky fossil]

big problem imo is just that it has pen and it can concentrate

that is why i say give splash

[granite sapphire]

would also be alot cooler

[lusty zealot]

increasing the spread would reduce the ability to concentrate

[plucky fossil]

doesn't fix issue that it has pen in the first place and instakills anything lightly armored

[granite sapphire]

news on occg rework?

im not playing elim again until they get improved anymore i think

[tranquil wedge]

Yea but Id have to add a line of. Code to get excactly that graph

[lusty zealot]

i'll leave it to celeste to decide whether to reveal what she's thinking

[next urchin]

I literally answered the question 10m ago when Yuuki last asked

[granite sapphire]

sorry i didnt read

[lusty zealot]

ah

[granite sapphire]

ill see what u said 1 sec

[lusty zealot]

thought you meant like, what it would be

[granite sapphire]

well yea kinda

but next patch is good stuff either way

asl as its happening

[granite sapphire]

so 4 shots at a time?

interesting

[plucky fossil]

no the lines are just the edges of the arcs

[granite sapphire]

holy spread

[plucky fossil]

well obviously not that far

exaggerated to show my point

the middle 2 borders are parallel and they spread from that

[granite sapphire]

sounds a bit silly

i think a spread of multiple shots can be justified as a method of saturation bombardment but not like that

[frigid flax]

get atomized lol

[granite sapphire]

aesthetic pipes 🔥

[frigid flax]

flak spam is so funny

whatja gonna do, shoot at me?

[lusty zealot]

i love OCflak

[quasi jewel]

I'm a little curious.How is the performance of OC flak and OC chain guns in pvp now?

[tranquil wedge]

Both are pretty much unplayable

Well I have a decent oc cg rammer

But nobody believes me when I tell them

[lusty gulch]

Is the networkrouter system only for heat or could it be used for other 'fluids'

[next urchin]

Depends how you want it to behave.

The implementation is very specifically a directed graph, not a fluid simulation

[quasi jewel]

I think OC flak maybe can't use in pvp,but it's intersting and can be used in pve.But I don't understand how to use OC chaingun well

[tame comet]

something im interested in is making flaks overclock offensive oriented instead of defensive because fuck flak is satisfying to shoot but it sucks ass as a weapon

[quasi jewel]

Agree

[granite sapphire]

i mean cgs are regardless always gonna be good in their niche i think unoc cgs are still barely viable in this meta mostly bc of how important unadulterated dps has become, but i just dont think current oc cg is worth running or on the same level as almost every other oc

ill send some of my prototype cg designs later

i made an unoc cg trl cruiser

[lusty gulch]

Basically having the same behavior but handling a different resource would be fine

[next urchin]

Then yes. You could even hijack the heat network. It's only 'heat' because that's what the resource storages/inputs/outputs have as their ResourceType

[lusty gulch]

Well I would have to add separate Storage sprites for the mods resource to all affected pipes or?

[next urchin]

Storage sprites?

The pipes don't have any storage

[lusty gulch]

I mean whatever makes them shows glow

[granite sapphire]

is it just me, or are oc fe crew really stupid? observing their behavior they seem to really hesitate between fires and go back and forth without really doing anything

in general the crew seem incapable of properly collaborating to extinguish fires

[languid basin]

We need better fire training for the crew

We need better training for the crew in general lmao I watched a guy bring hyperium from across the ship when there was one literally a door over

[gloomy raft]

ah ok. fair enough.

[near flax]

imo OC deck cannons should have at least the same DPS as non OC deck cannons

the reason the balance feels off is cause in elim the main thing holding it back was its shot speed and now that it has a good shot speed the amount of damage it has is shining through

heres what i would change
dps 4,080 --> 6,000
shot speed 360 --> 240

[jaunty gyro]

I will say, while it looks very cool, the shot speed on the OC deck cannons is a bit problematic for me. Sometimes it seems so fast that I can just about tell if my ship is firing or not in all the chaos of battle, even on low speeds.

[glass stump]

I already adressed this in another post: #1383689467356774500 message

Now we got a new patch which straight up lowered oc dc dps by 20% and surprise surprise, pvp players are still as unhappy with oc dc balance as pre- patch. The issue they have is not solved by dps values but by alphastrike and projectile speed itself.

[verbal torrent]

how'd you get the OC ion hitbox to work?

[glass stump]

I agree, it’s pretty cringe that OC DCs are essentially worse than standard DCs in close-range combat. Ideally, I’d like to see them match the dps of normal DC's, but with slightly improved accuracy and faster projectile speed. To balance this, their projectile speed, damage, and/or projectile health could gradually fall off beyond the standard DC range of 190 meters. I imagine the reason the devs haven’t tried something like this might be due to potential performance issues.

[dark lily]

Deck Cannons' main limitation is the ability to actually land hits. Overclocking them gives them precision via shot velocity, allowing them to actually hit targets. If you raise their DPS but lower their precision, you're returning them to their previous status and taking away the ability to hit targets at range, which is what the OC gives them.

If they're worse in close range combat, then don't use them in close range combat. Is it worth taking away them actually working at long range when you can just un-overclock them? Nothing prevents you from doing this in active combat.

[crimson osprey]

Honestly, same dps and slightly better stats is the kind of overclock I'd like to avoid. That would be a wasted opportunity

Currently, I'm of the opinion that OCDC stats aren't so much of a problem. Not anticipating how many can be fielded effectively is a problem. Prior to meltdown, you rarely saw more than 10 on a ship (if you even saw any) but now people can field 16 or more. The effectiveness of a burst weapon rises dramatically with the numbers of it you can field. OCDC platforms don't need to be fast so they can focus more heavily into weapons and defenses than what we're used to seeing. The stats of the weapon are also conducive to focus fire. I think it may be a better solution to look at ways to reduce the sheer numbers of OCDC turrets we're seeing without gutting them in smaller use cases.

[lusty zealot]

increasing their spread could be a good way to reduce their ability to focus. keep the projectile speed high (though a slight decrease probably wouldn't be catastrophic), so they can hit the ship they're targeting, but have enough spread that they likely won't hit the same spot on the ship too many times

[lusty zealot]

and if you get close enough to focus that well, you'll likely run into issues of your cannons firing from different angles so lose focused penetration that way

[glass stump]

Most oc weapons have "slightly increased stats" with a twist on their projectile, sl turning hitscan, hl gaining aoe and so on. The most common tradeoff oc weapons have is gaining more dmg potential for less accuracy.
The issue is that the "twist" dc's gain is range, accuracy and projectile speed. We went from them having slightly higher dps than normal dc's to them having slightly less to now having even less dps but the issue still stands. I think fundamentally having a deckmounted projectile weapon with projectiles that are so fast that pd and flak can barely interact with them is an issue that needs to be adressed. Further reduction in dps won't solve that.

[remote charm]

oc just having better stats is just as boring imo

[crimson osprey]

A goal of overclocks is a change that fundamentally effects the way the weapon is used, opening up doors for new builds. Not all are there but OCDC and OCrails are a great example of that, having inspired completely new archetypes. I'm going to oppose any changes that stand in the way of that like nerfing a weapon to "meh, slightly better"

A side note, OCDC was the only overclock that actually had less paper DPS than the non-overclocked version out of the gate.

As for your last point, no, reducing DPS until the weapon is irrelevant would definitely solve the issue of the projectile being hard to shoot down, because no one would care about it.

[remote charm]

have a little twist

[glass stump]

Yeah but it would not solve the issue because the new archetypes you praise would die too if their dps gets nerved into irrelevantcy. All I want is having more interaction between oc dc and anti projectile defense (pd and flak). For more detailed description between the current archetypes please take a look at: #1383689467356774500 message

[pure salmon]

Is there a way to prioritize heat transfer to go to thermal canister launchers BEFORE radiators? It'd be nice if excess heat was expelled only after all connected launchers had their heat stores filled

[crimson osprey]

You miss my point 😅

[verbal torrent]

where are those again?

[lusty zealot]

thermal canister missiles are a new missile type

you pump heat into them and throw it at enemies

[glass stump]

I agreed with your point, I was just trying to add more context and nuance. So if you feel I missed your point, it might go both ways. 😅

[crimson osprey]

Currently there aren’t any heat allocation priority settings. A work around is to hotkey and toggle off vents as needed while using heat storage to hold onto excess heat, but the micro management can be risky

[next urchin]

I'm still considering priorities - it's not off the table. I have minor concerns about the performance implications (it'd require an extra resource operation), but it's probably not a huge deal. Just wary because the networks are in a computationally good place at the moment

[granite sapphire]

well, heat actively in your system will always be sent to tcms before storages, but heat left in storages will be vented if tcms are full. the easiest solution is to run no storage and very few radiators, as tcms have a decent bit of native storage that you can rely on if you must

you can run exchangers and fe for fire control if youre worried of heat spikes

[next urchin]

TCMs also actively draw heat from non-TCM storages

[bitter steppe]

When I plan to run TCMs for more than just active venting, I always run lots of thermal batteries.

If you consider that each TCM is 7500 heat, that's 1/2 of a battery. If you want to rapid fire TCMs from multiple launchers you'll either need a way to generate a TON of heat at once or just have a bunch of thermal capacity, hold fire for a bit to build up heat, then fire to dump it all at once

[frigid flax]

magma heat ship

i think the paint is pretty fitting for the weapon choices

[lusty zealot]

ooo, nice

[delicate moss]

so.. is there any way to counter TRLs that focus almost solely on dilation, causing the heat to just go past armor and burn everything?

[tame comet]

heat exchangers i think?

[delicate moss]

well yeah, but if the dilation is enough it can go past heat shielding you may build

I was thinking of making a boss ship with dilation focused TRLs but I don't want to accidentally make something that is impossible to beat without using dilators everywhere

[lusty zealot]

shield

or just kill them first because dilation will spread out the damage a lot

can also do spaced armour

TRLs don't have an AoE, they just propagate along/through parts

any gap will cause them to have to go around

[delicate moss]

ah interesting, aight

kinda torn if I want em on my boss ship then.. ig I'll have to see

[lusty zealot]

worth a try

[vague aurora]

Also a bit more range for OC DC would be nice, inaccurate faraway bombardment weapon is a niche Cosmoteer really lacked and might as well embrace it. In exchange for shot speed nerf random spread increase could also work.

For fire management can I suggest a 1x2 fire extinguisher compartment that can hold three FEs but has 20-25 second respawn time for each of them.

That's something I have always wanted to see in the game.

Very simple qol addition like how hybrid structures and large HD was.

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone New Meltdown Update preview build! Thanks for your testing and feedback!

Balance:

• Reworked Chaingun Overclock:
  • Lower max fire rate
  • Low-spread 4-shot burst
  • High damage explosive shots
• Flak Array (Overclocked): shrapnel field now blocks hit-scan weapons

Other:

• Heat Pipe Crossings now go dark without command, like other corridors
• Added missing Scorched behaviour to Thermal Resonance Lance
• Fixed scorched parts still requesting resources and crew
• Added missing Electron nebula modifiers to the Thermal Resonance Lance
• Fixed Thermal Resonance Lance updating pump buff values only after firing for the first tick

[lusty zealot]

yippee

[frail anvil]

Fire

[verbal torrent]

unpowered heat pipe crossings are the best change

[fickle patrol]

OC flak is now the ultimate stalling device

[verbal torrent]

was abour to say that's another utility for it now

[near flax]

no dom crew reset button :/

[verbal torrent]

also JUST now noticed dissipators might make ramming valid(??)

[lusty zealot]

?

[near flax]

dissipators?

[verbal torrent]

radiators

[near flax]

gotcha

ramming has been a valid strat for a while imo

[lusty zealot]

and radiators are far from a great ramming weapon

[tacit peak]

intresting! likeable.

[tranquil wedge]

some have used the radiators on their already decent rammers for extra dps and it kinda works

[tame comet]

holy chaingun oc

also flak oc blocking hitscan is fucking wild

[verbal torrent]

how "objectively correct" are OC large reactors and power capacitatord in ships that previously ran the non-OC version (and can fit heat pipes)?

[lusty zealot]

depends what you need them for

[tame comet]

cost wise? its pretty steep from what i know

in terms of logistics yea what theta said

[lusty zealot]

the answer to so many questions about this game are 'it depends'

[tame comet]

oc larges dont incraese pickup time further right?

[tame comet]

i think thats what i like about this game a lot

[lusty zealot]

don't believe so

also cmon steam give me the update

[tame comet]

reload steam. always does it

[lusty zealot]

usually verifying file integrity works in my experience

yeah even reloading steam didn't give me the update

[tame comet]

did walt forget the update

[woven aurora]

It has EXPLOSIVE shots

fun

[verbal torrent]

do lance modifiers apply to thermal pipes or only to lance module?

[woven aurora]

walt forgot to press send

[lusty zealot]

?

[woven aurora]

The pumps affect lances attachd to the same network, if thats what you mean?

[verbal torrent]

soo this'll work?

[woven aurora]

yup

[verbal torrent]

oooooo

[tranquil wedge]

steam is not giving me the preview update :(

[tame comet]

thats because i think walt forgot to send it

[fiery hollow]

did you on windows you can use windows+shift+s to take a picure on your screen instead of using your phone

[tame comet]

no one else is getting it too

[lusty zealot]

@cerulean prairie did you forget to actually push the update

[tame comet]

what are those other categories of the missiles and mrt?

[verbal torrent]

missile launcher + missile factories

[tranquil wedge]

that would be tragic

[lusty zealot]

since the last meltdown update all modular parts use the sub-tab system

[tame comet]

oh gotcha

[lusty zealot]

that includes launchers with all their factories, and armour as a category

[cerulean prairie]

HOW DARE YOU INSUATE THAT I WOULD EVER FORGET TO PUSH AN UPDATE THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE!!!

(i fixed it thanks)

[verbal torrent]

thermal canisters don't have a factory evidently (somehow the heat makes the canisters), someone pointed out to me

[tame comet]

they do i think

[verbal torrent]

oh

[woven aurora]

they just need heat to fire

[lusty zealot]

they do have a factory

[hollow gull]

unacceptable that he forgot to push it, I booked my 5 seconds off of work and i didn't get to play. had to lie to my wife, children and girlfriend to get that time to myself and now i can't try the new update preview. really disappointed

[tranquil wedge]

lets goooo

[lusty zealot]

it's just that the launcher also needs to be piped up to shove the heat in

[verbal torrent]

just expected it to be right after mines rather than emp

[near flax]

favorite screen time <3

means theres new stuff

[regal sand]

... and that you have to reactivate your QoL mods then restart the game. Again

[near flax]

testing the new CG out and i fw it,

[tame comet]

i should try it

[near flax]

i think the other fish and jyuuki will be happy with this

why are there so many fishes in cosmo theres like 4-5 at this point

[tame comet]

i dont even know if i count i just started fish reacting as a bit

who did that

[woven aurora]

the cg turrets seem to move a little between each burst, is this intended?

[tame comet]

they're nervoussss

[remote charm]

lot of recoil . tough to manage .

[vague aurora]

I love how flak shrapnel cloud was given a defencive role, plus I think this is the only active defence that stops hitscan.

Very very coo!ll

[vague aurora]

Oo I kinda like how they stutter in overwhelming barrage.

[next urchin]

Hmm this didn't happen when I was testing it, but I was mostly testing it front on.

I guess they think they've stopped firing because their last shot was a while ago

[hollow gull]

OC MRT should work like a vacuum cleaner switch where it sets it to suck instead of blow so you can reverse
pros???
cons???
profit???

[tame comet]

we ignore the fact that isnt how that works

[hollow gull]

your vacuum doesn't have a blow setting?

[eager gyro]

thats kinda the oposite of how a vacume works

[remote charm]

first we need to add air to space though

[hollow gull]

thick nebula which the game takes place in

or something sci fi explosion

[next urchin]

I think blow settings on vacuums is a very American thing?

I've never come across an actual vacuum with 'blow'

[tame comet]

not even an american thing, i think

[hollow gull]

it may be more common for handheld or work vacuums, for outdoor/plaster and debris

[tame comet]

im american and have literlaly NEVER heard of that

[tame comet]

idk how to put this to you but a thruster is a bit bigger than a handheld vacuum

[hollow gull]

the fan just spins the other way, so bigger ones can have it too, but you wouldn't use your household vacuum for brick dust or plaster (I hope)

also modular means stronger suck

[languid basin]

What would even be the point of this? You're putting a giant weakpoint in your frontal armor

[next urchin]

I've used both and not seen it, but the only work vacuum I've used was not very good (genuinely I think the old manually pumped vacuums would've been better. This was like a really bad broom)

[granite sapphire]

cg otw

[hollow gull]

it flips the thrust direction so you can reverse

it was a joke and would be terrible balance obviously

[delicate bay]

My guess is that the total pump or dilator bonus per TRL is divided by the number of TRL's in the network raised to the power of 0.67. I.e. bonus / N_TRL^0.67 Similarly the power consumption of pumps and dilators is multiplied by N_TRL^0.67 and the waste heat output of pumps and dilators is multiplied by N_TRL^0.67 + some factor dependent on the number of pumps/dilators in the heat network. So with 2 TRL's in the network everything changes by a factor of 1.59. With three 2.09, and with 10 by 4.68.

[gloomy raft]

why does this slowly catch fire?

[tame comet]

reactor isnt piped

[gloomy raft]

it didnt when the chains werent there but even when the chains arent firing this now self immolates and i dont know why

[eager gyro]

the radiators at the botem do nothing

[tame comet]

gotta pipe the reactor directly

[jaunty gyro]

Yeah definitely don't use the heat vacuum thingies for something like a reactor

[tame comet]

probably fine for an SR

how much heat does an SR produce per second?

[eager gyro]

basicly 800

[tame comet]

exchangers are 900 or 500

[eager gyro]

ooo, overclocked shells have a look to them

[tame comet]

that is absolutely petrifyign

[next urchin]

Were there pipes where the cgs are

[frigid flax]

Oc flak stops hitscan?????????

Now this is epic

[next urchin]

This is at least roughly correct, yeah

If that was really a guess, that's impressive

[tulip nebula]

Cant wait to see railgun's 4 bullet thingy

[eager gyro]

chaingun

[tulip nebula]

Ohhh,, woops

It was a chaingun

Ieevkebduenw

[gloomy raft]

no i figured it out. its cos i turned the lasers back on i think.

[languid basin]

Does OC flak work against normal flak? I mean it should, flak is a hitscan.

[jaunty gyro]

actually is there a specific list of things that count as hitscan for the purposes of OC flak?

[eager gyro]

mainly being pd, mineing laser, ions, flack and chaingun

[granite sapphire]

afaik all hitscan but trl

[granite sapphire]

pd?

[eager gyro]

probibly also works on thermal lance

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[granite sapphire]

p sure it doesnt on trl bc trl doesnt do damage

requires testing tho

[eager gyro]

nevermind doesint stop pd

or flack

[tame comet]

no... not pd...

[jaunty gyro]

anti-point-defense point defense would sure be something

[tame comet]

the overclock for pd allows pd to shoot down pd

[granite sapphire]

if 2 oc pd collide they produce a thermonuclear explosion

[delicate moss]

that's called an ion beam

wait nvm, that's just anti-point-defense, not also point-defense

[eager gyro]

okedoek so:
Flack: no
PD: no
mineing laser: yes
ions: yes
chainguns: yes
Thermal lance: yes

[granite sapphire]

ah i was wrong so it litrrally is all hitscan

flak being no is funny but makes sense

[tame comet]

flak as offensive viable???

i was gonna say pd as offensive viable but some t1 ships literally use pd as offense

[eager gyro]

i guess that means this things only weakness is what its armed with

[tame comet]

i also just realized how probably not terrible OCPD is starting out

[delicate moss]

the fact that PD and small thrusters both can work completely "powered" by heat and not crew is nuts, like, you can legitamitely build 2-crew fighters with a later-game ship and they can be actually economical as they swarm the enemy

if I had more free time I would try doing a carrier run (I might anyway)

[granite sapphire]

i dont think pure pd as a weapon is particularly economical

oc small cannons are pretty good though

1 crew

[delicate moss]

not quite, but the fact you can run the entire system with 0 crew is the big deal

like, a small cannon requires a crew to staff it and a crew to load it. put two on a fighter and now the thing costs 6 crew instead of 2

almost all weapon systems in Cosmoteer require staffing to run and more staffing to supply, but the OC PD requires neither

[granite sapphire]

oc sc use so little ammo they dont need loader crew really

[delicate moss]

I should look into them tbh

[eager gyro]

oc flack seems to be broken, it only blocks the hitscan shots and nothing elce

it can still shoot the things down, just the shrapinal pool doesint

[granite sapphire]

rip

[polar knot]

Did changeguns get a nerf?

[remote charm]

did changeguns get changed

[dark lily]

Yea

[polar knot]

Aw

[tame comet]

"nerf" is a bit of a stretch considering they explode now

[polar knot]

Oh?

I’d love to test that out

[tame comet]

yea they fire in a 4 round burst and shoot explosive shots

they also have almost no spread

[jaunty gyro]

Anyone with the game currently open able to gif or record that?

[frigid flax]

I'm so excited to start a new playthrough when this update releases
Can't wait to obliterate enemy ships with a sun's worth of heat

[granite sapphire]

well hopefully not

[polar knot]

YES

[granite sapphire]

yea mostly my suggestion

[polar knot]

I got so mad when they increased the spread earlier

[granite sapphire]

a bit different from my recommendations, but close enough to the essence

https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1384077358029602998

i still think larger bursts would be cooler, not just 4 shells, but this seems like a nice rework

@craggy heath we have to start building cg again

giga high focus core time

[lusty zealot]

issue with larger bursts is that fire rate is limited to 1 shot per game tick, which means that longer bursts take notably longer which could make for awkward downtime mid-firing, or bursts start to overlap and it just turns into a normal chaingun

[craggy heath]

foward facing has highest focus 🥰

[lusty zealot]

i do somewhat worry that the new OCCG seemingly being all explosive damage will actually put it at an effective DPS disadvantage due to some slices facing away from the opponent

[granite sapphire]

does it.... have the same total damage?

thats probably pretty bad then

i assumed that stuff was adjusted for already

its basically half damage against surface if you just left the damage as is

[tame comet]

i think the bullets have the same dps themselves but i dont think it counts the explosion

i think its 18,000 on both, but one explodes which can probably lead to variable damage

[lusty zealot]

i'm not entirely sure, i haven't done comprehensive testing, but from my very quick tests it was dropping shields a little slower than base CG

the listed DPS is the same but yeah i don't know how the explosions factor into that

and either way if it is actually at a disadvantage it'd be a fairly easy stat change

concept-wise i think this is the best CG OC

[tame comet]

you should make one that deals 2,000% damage if theres any active pipes or overclocked weaponry on a ship thats awesome trust

[lusty zealot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1331388126613995591/1338292129071497329/2025-02-10_00_30_23.gif

[tame comet]

people on the planet wondering why a supernova happened for 3 seconds

[lusty zealot]

my proposal in the balance council chats for what seems to have turned into this had the idea of impact damage and then a separate explosion, that would have helped to mitigate/nullify this potential issue, though may have been more difficult from a developer PoV

[granite sapphire]

could just fire multiple bullets per tick if need be

[granite sapphire]

so there isnt any impact dmg right

[lusty zealot]

i don't actually know

[lusty zealot]

which has the potential issue of making it too shotgunny

[lusty zealot]

this was not one of the OCs we had earlier access to, and i don't know how to read the game files

[granite sapphire]

if its just 1 or 2 shots being fired per tick i doubt its anything like a shotgun

[lusty zealot]

anyway i like 4-shot bursts, i think it makes sense both mechanically and thematically (as the CG has 4 barrels and does everything else in 4s or multiples of 4)

[granite sapphire]

im curious as to what purpose the aoe actually fulfills? but ig its like flak which is cool

[granite sapphire]

well its a rotary gun, its not like it fires all 4 barrels at the same time...

[lusty zealot]

explosives are cool, and another point of differentiation from base CG

plus every other kinetic weapon's OC gives it some way of hitting more stuff per firing (super-penetration for DC and rails, LC shrapnel, SC burstfire, flak shrapnel fields) so adding to that was a good idea imo

[granite sapphire]

i dont think its an advantage though, unless it directly grants more damage potential

[lusty zealot]

again i don't precisely know how it works so i can't say if it does give more damage potential or not, and if it doesn't stats can be changed

[granite sapphire]

im worried about the dps stat being unchanged

def a good idea to give them some damage potential upside tho for sure bc cg never gaining damage potential (and even technically losing it bc accuracy loss) was one of the main things making them so weak

dealing the same damage per burst made it hard to justify ocing cg

[lusty zealot]

my actual proposal was to have the OCCG use 1 whole ammo per individual shot (so a mag per burst) but with much higher damage per shot (like 1500 on impact with a 1k damage 2.5m aoe explosion), and lower fire rate

i think that could have been interesting

though changing ammo use from OC would apparently require some janky workarounds on the coding side so understandable that celeste went with something different

and also, i believe that while the DPS may not be increased or be lower, each shot does do much more damage so it is more damage per burst/per ammo

[granite sapphire]

space bolter

[granite sapphire]

ahhh thats good

[mild gazelle]

Is it intended for there to be no sound when overriding a non oc part with the same oc part in bp mode?

[next urchin]

It'd be pretty easy to do, but I don't know what the correct between the two would be. Maybe they could get like 25-50% (of base) impact damage on top of their current explosive damage if they need it

[lusty zealot]

i'd probably be more in favour of focusing on the impact rather than the explosion (as with my initial proposal) but that might make the explosion a bit superfluous

[next urchin]

I think CG might be the one projectile weapon it would work without jank on

Since it's directly fed, rather than being loaded over time from a storage

[lusty zealot]

i think a mix would be a good call, maybe bring the damage up to ~1500 per shot total?

[lusty zealot]

oh huh

well i'm definitely in favour of that then

4th OCCG rework when

[next urchin]

As long as it's a partial rework, then we're getting closer lmao

[lusty zealot]

yeah i think the focused burst concept is something to stick to

[next urchin]

Too slow fire-rate starts to leave chaingun and become "autocannon", though, which I'm not necessarily sure is a zone the OC CG should stray into

[tame comet]

is an autocannon planned or is that already a thing in the form of an oc

[lusty zealot]

i think that's something it being burst-fire can help mitigate, because it still does fire very rapidly when it's firing

[lusty zealot]

in terms of fire rate i think base SC would qualify as that

[tame comet]

first thing i thought if

[next urchin]

No plans, but I'm wary of implementing a potentially cool weapon type in a less-cool way through OC

[granite sapphire]

a casemate autocannon firing a projectile that leans a bit more into precision would be cool to have, if a bit functionally similar to cg/cannons

[lusty zealot]

what do you mean by casemate in this context?

[granite sapphire]

well, functionally not an awful lot past tanky and a small arc of fire

maybe a rear mounted modular autoloading system to contrast cgs horizontal mount

[paper hemlock]

It's armored

To be fair though all cannons have pretty high HP and Penetration resistance for a weapon

[lusty zealot]

when you said that it actually got my brain thinking of something comparable to the casemate guns from airships, internal weapons (like roof weapons in cosmoteer) with fairly narrow arcs and generally worse performance than their surface mounted counterparts. i think a roof-mounted non-turreted rapid-ish-fire cannon could potentially have a place in cosmo

[granite sapphire]

i wasnt thinking roof mounted

[lusty zealot]

yeah i know that was my brain ricochetting off on a bit of a tangent

[paper hemlock]

It'd be cool to see something similar to GA(?) where it's a side-mounted turret that faces forward and has a narrow arc

[granite sapphire]

cram autocannon

like in ftd, specialized ammo types that let you fine tune what the shell does

[lusty zealot]

a cram cannon is a type of modularity we haven't had before

[paper hemlock]

cram cannon?

[lusty zealot]

a weapon type in the game From the Depths

big guns with the unique feature of 'pellet packing', essentially you shove certain types of 'pellets' into the shell and that changes what it does

explosive, frag, kinetic/reinforced

[granite sapphire]

its a type of cannon that essentially functions by "cramming" specialized pellets with different effects into shells. i think its modeled after a real world concept for an experimental munitions system, if i can find it

[lusty zealot]

and you can mix them to fine-tune what your shell does

[granite sapphire]

from ftd

[paper hemlock]

That's cool

I'd imagine it'd be like a DC in terms of turning a bunch of bullets into one mega bullet

The only problem I'd imagine is how you can tell what bullet types your enemy has

[granite sapphire]

in my concept theyd be visible on the roof texture

or maybe the bullet tracer

[lusty zealot]

different pellet packers could have different roof appearances and/or sizes

like amps and dilators for TRL

[granite sapphire]

jani's mod has a fully functional cram cannon implementation in cosmoteer iirc

[lusty zealot]

anyway this is getting a little off-topic for this thread probably make a #1019739575683399840 post if you have a solid idea for this

[verbal torrent]

any way to treat overclocked parts as different blueprint?

[narrow owl]

The icon seems to be lagging

[pale python]

Iirc it's an optimization

It doesn't need to update every frame yknow

[lusty zealot]

like, in terms of career unlock?

if so that's planned

[hollow gull]

is it just me or does the chaingun oc feel kinda weak for longer mags? at least compared to non oc

[granite sapphire]

the intent was to enable playstyles involving lower magazine counts, though it shouldnt be outright weak for high counts

[hollow gull]

yeah I was hoping it would enable some smaller chaingun ships to be fun

going to try that out later

[tranquil wedge]

Idk how you would achieve both

[hollow gull]

couldn't it just be given back the 1st OC bonus of more shots per shot at higher rof?

[tranquil wedge]

That might make long cg much better than short again

[hollow gull]

actually

it doesnt matter because the OC damage is currently garbage

the OC is actually worse?? and I have to add expensive pipes and cooling on a weapon with only 2 slots for it

6 magazines don't destroy a singular large cannon with OC. That's pathetic

and on smaller ships, everything has a cannon

is this a bug? OC chaingun 6 magazines did 2/3 of a large cannon then ran out of ammo

[granite sapphire]

well i very clearly suggested a way in my thread, but i suppose with this specific current implementation it isnt...?

[granite sapphire]

lol

[hollow gull]

also it overheats really easily and really fast, icing on the cake

6 mag

[granite sapphire]

i actually made multiple very clear suggestions that specifically outlined stats and game mechanics that could make this happen. however, they seem to have mostly gotten the same "ok, shotgun?" treatment of reading the thread title and implementing something vaguely reminiscent to the title of the thread, not an actual mechanical implementation of my suggestion in any way

[hollow gull]

🤷‍♂️ something about bursts? explosions are pretty cool i think

[granite sapphire]

that being said i still think this oc can be good. it just sure as hell wont add much more unique playstyles or fix much of chainguns issues, overall

[hollow gull]

If I recall, Walt did say that if chainguns need a change, he would rather fix the base chainguns properly, than hope to resolve the issues with just oc

[granite sapphire]

https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1384077358029602998

my suggestion thread

[hollow gull]

maybe they are still planning to fix the underlying weapon, there are multiple threads that discuss base weapon really well, and your thread which has a lot of depth

[granite sapphire]

my first suggestion was to add burst fire as an alt firing mode, with a different unique oc, which i thought would be better. my second suggestion was a burst fire oc, but the bursts would be far more pronounced and impactful than a 4 shot burst with zero scaling

[hollow gull]

most OCs have good scaling built into the design

[tranquil wedge]

Your suggestion was the previous oc but different numbers?

Oh sorry you are talking about the new thread

[granite sapphire]

like half the point of everything is numbers, if we doubled nuke's travel speed and quartered its max damage its a different weapon

[tranquil wedge]

I mean the numbers are simlar enough to make it function the same

[tranquil wedge]

I skimmed through this but the fixed fire rate seems like it doesnt benefit longer cg?

[hollow gull]

to be honest, I think that the base chaingun has some design problems, and they are making it much more difficult to get a satisfying OC

[granite sapphire]

the size of the burst would scale with the mag count

[tranquil wedge]

I guess would benefit longer mags again then?

I think its much harder to find a balance than you make it seem

[hollow gull]

is there any chance that we get the base chaingun looked at and some changes?

[tranquil wedge]

You can always suggest changes

[hollow gull]

I already did, there's a whole thread, and more threads by others

the other weapons were big wins on OCs, large cannon just needed a power reduction, mostly balancing stuff

but this one weapon has had 3 iterations and none of them are quite right, and I think that means it's the weapon, rather than the OC concepts

[hollow gull]

someone suggested a little shield dynamo, that scales with ROF, so that the chaingun could be surface mount
some players suggested a hitpoint change, because for the cost of 1 chaingun (18k hp) you could get 5 large cannons (100k hp, lol)

The threads have some detailed discussions on the weapons

my thread was about the identity of the weapon and the conflicting design ideas

such as how it is a modular weapon that you want to invest in, but it's only 18k hitpoints and surface mount, so if it gets destroyed, your whole weapon is ruined

..which conflicts with the shell and gun arc, and the wind up requiring you to stay on target (as a fixed weapon means it cant stay aimed unless you ram)

hell, I suggested considering a shared hitpoint pool with the magazines, so that it can scale a bit (but cutting the magazines would cut off the extra hitpoints)

[tranquil wedge]

I dont think you can conclude that. Its just hard to have the same weapon do something different

[hollow gull]

I can conclude that it's really hard to have the same weapon do something different when there is a singular viable use for it

which is a core weapon

outside of alpha rammers, in pvp, I'm mostly referring to career

The issues that J-Yuuki writes here plague the oc

inflexible layout. there is a singular slot to add a pipe. lol

and it generates too much heat to use heat exchangers

[tranquil wedge]

Yea the balance coincil recently discussed some ideas to make cg more viable as a surface weapon.
The issue is that they already were really good in pvp before meltdown and changes to stable weapons seem to be halted until meltdown sttles down.
Theta also had a nice suggestion of the shell extending with the gun and only covering part of it. That would be a lot of work for the devs though.
The other ideas all have issues but I hope we can do something about this some time.

[hollow gull]

Theta also had a nice suggestion of the shell extending with the gun and only covering part of it. That would be a lot of work for the devs though.

i had a pretty similar idea as well

[tranquil wedge]

Maybe theta got it from you idk

[hollow gull]

ultimately, I think that everyone just wants a fun chaingun, and I trust you guys to find something

thank you

[granite sapphire]

i feel like the reasoning behind my stats being more favorable for both playstyles was pretty clear

[orchid raven]

tested oc chainguns, they seem like too much work for too little gain
(non OC on left, OC on right)

they seem to deal slightly more damage per ammo, but...

they go through that mag considerably slower, which really hampers their damage potential

the money you save from the less ammo you spend goes into the cooling instead

this is with 5 mag extensions

and with 3 radiators, the battery goes up to about half by the end of the mag

I feel like the OC needs a bit more Sauce to be interesting, right now it's just a slightly different chaingun which doesn't seem to be really worth it

maybe something like making it start ramped up and slow down instead to really embrace the short mag chainguns

or make it even more ammo efficient to go with undercrewed ships

[glass stump]

The heat generation seems quite insane. With the first oc dc we ever had in the same setup, one radiator and one battery would have been enough

[orchid raven]

yeah, 300/shot seems quite steep

considering the fire rate, the heat generation goes from 858 to 4500 in ten seconds

and a radiator being 1100/sec

and how it seems to hit the max firing cap with less mags due to the slower max rate of fire

[glass stump]

Is the spread lower than non oc cg?

[orchid raven]

yes

from 1,5 to 0,5

[glass stump]

That sounds like a lot. Could mean that surface cg can deal reasonable focus fire. Also means core cg's might be able to build even thinner barrels as a byproduct (I know nobody asked for that).

[orchid raven]

I feel like the damage area kinda goes against focus firing

if the damage is split between segments

so it's more accurate, only to have AoE?

[tame comet]

i had the idea of spinal mags on the back, making surface use more viable

though totally fair that stable weapon balancing is halted

[hollow gull]

why is chaingun and mrt in phase 2 meltdown, weren't those added ages ago?

[eager gyro]

the overclocks need more work or something like that

[hollow gull]

also what is the difference between TRL and disintegration ray

[granite sapphire]

overclocks/base part are in need of a functional rework

[tranquil wedge]

could have also added them to the end of phase 1. Doesnt make a difference

[tranquil wedge]

Thats a good question

I might ask in #ask-walt actually

[hollow gull]

the two commenters above are saying that it's because they're still in need of work

but your answer would imply that it's just because they were at the end of phase 1 and are completed

so actually this causes some confusion

[tranquil wedge]

MRT doesnt need a rework and nobody is trying to make one for them

[tranquil wedge]

Why is it so important to you if its part of phase 1 or 2 xD
Its an arbitrary choice

[hollow gull]

it isn't crazy important to me or anything lol

just asking if they are in phase 2 of meltdown because the devs want to rework the OC more

which is implied a bit by putting them in the meltdown section

[tranquil wedge]

Just coincidence imo

[granite sapphire]

ocmrt needs some tweaking fs

super underwhelming

[delicate bay]

I did some simple tests, but it was mostly guess and check. So basically guessing informed by some "what would the devs do" intuition.

[lusty gulch]

Is Thermal Lance going to get an OC?

[eager gyro]

that would be the unsafe mode

[bitter steppe]

It once had an OC, but it just didn't make sense ultimately to have the safety mode and everything else TRLs do and then also have an OC as well

[coarse spindle]

Radiator oc when

[near flax]

radiator are actually constantly overclocked

[mild gazelle]

Radiator unoc when

[hollow gull]

when do we get a thermal battery OC that allows us to use it like a steam engine?

[cerulean prairie]

I had to put them somewhere in the timeline between phases 1 and 2 and felt they made more sense (retroactively) putting them in phase 2.

[cerulean prairie]

Maybe not enough distinction but my basic idea is that a disintegration ray does damage as a percentage of part health. It's just an idea though, I haven't thought much about it.

[hollow gull]

thank you for the answers, I'm excited for the roadmap ahead

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone Small meltdown patch. Thanks for testing! (And I swear I pushed the build live on the preview channel this time!)

• Fixed overclocked Flak field not damaging projectiles
• Added Heat Generation stat provider for Thermal Resonance Lance
• Fixed locked parts showing Overclock tooltips
• Fixed stacked parts not showing Overclock tooltips

[vague aurora]

Aye

[lusty zealot]

yey

[vague aurora]

By the way does OC flak shrapnel do damage to ships, projectiles or both?

[tacit peak]

allways appreciated

[lusty zealot]

shrapnel field just hurts projectiles

and hitscan stuff now too ig

[vague aurora]

Also I am here to once again suggest a 1x2 fire extinguisher compartment with 3 extinguishers but 20-22 second cooldown for each.

To help with the fires.

[lusty zealot]

woe, shrapnel

[narrow blade]

just fire a trl into that it will magically repair the entire ship

[lusty zealot]

'oh, you're shooting me? no, no you aren't'

[eager gyro]

time to see if the ship i made yesterday functions now

[lusty zealot]

the Dysfunction here is so much better now

[eager gyro]

perfict

imagine trying to shoot someone but you cant becase its like atempting a driveby on earth from wall-e

[lusty zealot]

lol, lmao even

[eager gyro]

nice

[pale python]

i'm gonna take a look at the code

hope there's ways to have modded things and hitscans penetrate or if not availible, ignore it

[eager gyro]

intreagingly oclc is semi imune to the shrapenal, due to it instantly turinin into buckshot

[lusty zealot]

seemingly it doesn't block other flak

so probably

[tepid charm]

flak when it

flacc

[eager gyro]

pd and flack are the 2 things that cant get blockd, everthing elce tho can

[tepid charm]

flak ball ship meta

[pale python]

awesome

concerns have been lifted
but interesting that it sticks to ships it seems?

[lusty zealot]

inherits the velocity of the ship that fired it

[tepid charm]

ye

[eager gyro]

yep

[pale python]

wacky

[tepid charm]

fr

[lusty zealot]

it's so it doesn't just fall behind when you're firing at something you're chasing

[narrow blade]

did balance council and nitro booster get role gradients all of a sudden

[bitter steppe]

yep #discord-meta

[frigid flax]

this shit is too funny

whatja gonna do? fire at me? how about no

time to build the ultimate flak ship
def my new fav weapon

[delicate moss]

This shit reminds me of the [THREAT] from starsector lmao

[fading girder]

can the flak debris field be damaged/destroyed? or do you just gotta wait it out/move?

[tame comet]

they have a healthpool yes

idk how much it is

[frigid flax]

its 2k