Meltdown Update Preview

[coarse spindle]

If your ship didn't work then it won't work now as well

[granite sapphire]

please explain how so

[narrow blade]

like wasnt everything just put to be half speed except for the drag changes

[granite sapphire]

?

yes its equally

youre the one saying it isnt

[rough shuttle]

it really felt like it

[narrow blade]

guys can SOMEONE please answer this question

[coarse spindle]

No need to pause constantly or slow the game down

[rough shuttle]

i had an ion setup that worked bassicly without interuption. Now it failed. ions kept switching off (this was some of the earlier builds of meltdown update)

[granite sapphire]

no, use less turning thrust or put it closer to com

[narrow blade]

wasnt said good battle pace achieved by slowing the game down

[coarse spindle]

1x should be for newer and casual players

They shouldn't have to change the speed slider

[granite sapphire]

that is a bug. all logistical setups should function exactly (realistically almost exactly, due to tick rate changes, but not percetibly) different. report it in #1019741923893858305 if you can properly replicate it

[coarse spindle]

If you feel like you're experienced you can speed up the game

[narrow blade]

huh????

so youre saying that no casual player should ever speed up the game for waiting

[rough shuttle]

Sounds gets all messed up, ruins the experience for me

[rough shuttle]

Huh okay. intresting.

[narrow blade]

i dont like the ear explosion sounds but like what would you do if you had to use thrusters to get from one side of a career system to another

[coarse spindle]

For battles

But still due to drag changes travel times were decreased as well

(I think this remained tho)

[coarse spindle]

Would've been fixed if the changes were allowed to stay in the oven

[gloomy raft]

ok so lets say i have a small ship. cos im limited by a desired small size i can overclock the engines. or the shields or (some of) the weapons and depending on what i chose will impact its performance (without simply accepting that it will set itself on fire most of the time) but if i have a larger ship. basically everything on it will be overclocked which means its gonna be very tanky, very fast and extremely well armed and maybe this is poor imagination but it feels like the value of using smaller specialised ships over one larger ship has been diminished.

[granite sapphire]

large ships will always be stronger than the same number of small ships because they have more stuff. you can very much fit lots of overclock into small fighters with a bit of creativity. weve already been doing that in pvp

[gloomy raft]

ok fair enough

can i see examples?

pls

[paper hemlock]

This happens every time they trry to change speed

[granite sapphire]

the fighter on this ship uses a fair amount of oc

[gloomy raft]

i cant see it lol

its too small

[granite sapphire]

load it into the game.

[gloomy raft]

how do i do that sorry

paste from png is producing wrong results

[coarse spindle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314115775319506955/1037153986953891973/How_to_Load_Ship.gif

[gloomy raft]

saying the image is too big

[lusty zealot]

huh, TRLs don't seem to be applying heat to the generator of a shield they're hitting

[coarse spindle]

Are you in the correct version?

Otherwise idk

[gloomy raft]

ill check on steam

preview version still right?

[coarse spindle]

Yeah

As long as the thermal parts didn't change it should load fine

[gloomy raft]

hmm

ok im missing something here

i cant paste my own ships back into game

[narrow blade]

jesus imo the thrust changes need to be desperately undone jesus any small craft thats made to go fast is completely fucking uncontrollable OR crashes into walls no matter what

[lusty zealot]

have you tried using face cursor?

[narrow blade]

im not used to it but im gonna try and horribly fail immediately

[gloomy raft]

so this worked for paste but nothing else has...

what am i missing... 🤔

[narrow blade]

ok so something is horribly wrong with face cursor to me

[lusty zealot]

?

[narrow blade]

idk it just seems to get the rotation offset so like not rotating would be a couple degrees off just straight forward

so if i put my cursor straight forward it would rotate to the right

also is it just me or did the power dynamos on small thrusters get buffed with the half speed change or did they jsut not get reverted back

before they werent flickering when i was running them at 100% and now they just are

[lusty zealot]

if you hit a or d it changes where it tries to rotate to

[narrow blade]

ok

[tranquil wedge]

Thats a feature :(

[narrow blade]

smh

chat did i predict oc chaingun

[granite sapphire]

octb is absolutely absurd btw. +50% force for like barely more than 1 radiator is op

even ignoring the pulse the base force increase is far too strong

you can easily fit 6 octb which equal to 9 normal tb which can easily fully control many ships and going up to 8 oc tb means literally any ship is helpless

[lusty zealot]

noted

[granite sapphire]

unless im misunderstanding the stats and it has weird lying heat consumption like its power consumption not the flat 700/s

[tame comet]

thank you, so much

[narrow blade]

ok so i think the ions might be a bit more powerful than they should be

idk

though i am using the most flimsy piece of shit ships ever

[hard orbit]

Over-clocked ions are the loose any form of precise targeting and just vaporize the enemy option. 😆

[tame comet]

we finally have the energy weapon variant of "destroy everything"

and leave nothing behinf

for ballistic weapons, this is called existing

[vernal wolf]

wait is that possible? you can just drag-and-drop ship PNGs onto the game itself?

[tame comet]

on windows yes

[vernal wolf]

holy moly

[tame comet]

just drag and drop!

welcome to walt/the dev teams genius

[plucky fossil]

no?? it's literally the same as before logistically

[plucky fossil]

just use face mouse cursor

[narrow blade]

someone already answered with that smh

[plucky fossil]

oh wait i see

[plucky fossil]

there's a bug with overclock thrust where it doesn't realize it's overclocked but still outputs the same thrust %

the previous rendition of this just pushed speed meta to be even faster

projectile speee increase disproportionately affects slower ships dodge

[near flax]

iirc its closer to "rts thinks OC thrust isnt overclocked"

[plucky fossil]

happens with dc too iirc

[near flax]

wait i just repeated what you said but different sorry nvm

[plucky fossil]

overclock half the thrust on 1 sode and hold w

[near flax]

???

[plucky fossil]

huh

interesting

[near flax]

it started by spinning which was odd

[plucky fossil]

oh then it realizes it has rotational force so it compensated

you have autobrake on?

if autonrake is on that shouldn't happe

[tranquil wedge]

There is no better way

[narrow blade]

yea im currently using it but id rather not get pinged with the exact same answer

[plucky fossil]

if you are desperate enough to beg for an answer from anyone i do not think you would care if you had multiple, but you would if you had none

[languid basin]

Has the PD issue been fixed or...?

[tranquil wedge]

What issue? That they dont really hit their target? I think that was partly related to the drag equation so it should be better again.

[languid basin]

Wasn't the issue because of the devs forgetting to update PD for the speed changes or something?

[tranquil wedge]

Maybe but that got taken care of I guess

[next urchin]

It's the exponent applied to amplification when calculating how much heat is applied to the emitter of a hit shield. It is not the debuff

[plucky fossil]

yeah that makes sense

[next urchin]

OC ion damage was doubled as part of reverting half-speed

[tranquil cape]

yeah i actually liked it
the crew speed felt really really bad though and it felt like it took way too long to start up a newly built ship

[frigid flax]

Yeah

I always felt like my power was gonna run out before my crew got there

[tranquil cape]

every time i repaired a ship after battle actually getting its systems started again always turned into a really boring wait

[next urchin]

It only generates heat while firing

[halcyon slate]

with the speed change, the OC boost thruster now generates heat 2x faster. Idk if this is intended

[next urchin]

The game was effectively running at half-speed, so everything should be approximately twice as fast now

[granite sapphire]

goated

[frigid flax]

obilteration

[bitter steppe]

ooh can i steal that paint scheme?

[frigid flax]

sure

[bitter steppe]

thanks!

[frigid flax]

armor vs corridor

ive hit the damage cap for 1 tick

[bitter steppe]

That.... doesn't sound like it should be possible, or at least it should be really hard to hit

[next urchin]

As in: overkill

[bitter steppe]

ahh yeah part overkill isn't that hard really, is it

[delicate moss]

it never even occured to me you could fire reso beams over an ion beam. That sounds like one of the worst possible weapons you could be on the wrong end of

[bitter steppe]

lots of damage numbers will need to be adjusted for weapons and overclocks to compensate for the speed changes

[frigid flax]

concentrated destruction

[next urchin]

@everyone if you played a save that became unloadable (corrupted) recently, please make sure to load and re-save that game if you haven't done so, as the next patch will remove the temporary bypass of the corrupted save data

[quasi meteor]

gotchu bro

[tame comet]

oh yea. small lasers are bugged rn to have a bugged firing animation (they cant fire 4 times a second due to chargeup), and overall balance is wonky, but thats because its a preview

[near flax]

i dont think you should be calling women bro

[quasi meteor]

I use bro is gender neutrally🥰

[eternal ibex]

gotchu girl

[next urchin]

I can be bro

[frigid flax]

i looked away for 3 seconds and the enemy ship is dead 🔥

[next urchin]

The pain going back and forth on half-speed has caused me...

pls no more

[tame comet]

question, do i need a bug report for this, because there really isnt much to report as you can go ingame yourself, its more of an oversight than an actual bug

[next urchin]

Uhhh nah it's good, I'll just... add it to the list... 😮‍💨

[tame comet]

good luck

doin a lot of good work

[languid basin]

celeste being worked ragged like give the poor lass a vacation 😭

[frigid flax]

yes dude this update has revitalized my interest in cosmoteer
soooooo many combinations and SYNERGY !!!!!!

[near flax]

got it girlie

[rough dock]

I like anything that makes ship building more complex.

[light stratus]

deranged businessman WALTUH overworks his most valuable employee to THE BONE making game updates!1!1!!!!

[bitter steppe]

All I can say is... it wasn't me, honest

[tame comet]

celeste.... come on celeste.... the people want their preview celeste...

[languid basin]

Do y'all think there's gonna be a modification to electron clouds that modify the heat dissipation power of a radiator?

[light stratus]

that would be evil

yes

[quasi meteor]

I think overclocked tractor beam pulse should push away clouds for 30 seconds

[tame comet]

i think clouds in general need something more because they're very 1 dimensional right now but thats just me

[quasi meteor]

just clear that shit out like a leaf blower

[paper hemlock]

guh

[light stratus]

thanks bot

really useful

needed that

[paper hemlock]

Didn't even know that was a thing

[languid basin]

It'd make sense, the radiator is dusty plasma (it looks like) and an electron cloud should affect something like that.

[light stratus]

technically it could do the opposite as their are more particles to take away heat

issue with heat in space is usually you need to eject particles since there aren't any around to take the heat, but with a cloud theres a bunch of usually cold particles right there to take your heat

[languid basin]

Or it could screw with the magnetic constraining field.

[paper hemlock]

A cold cloud could be interesting

Or a heat cloud

[light stratus]

all clouds are cold

due to the expansion of gas

[paper hemlock]

nuh uh

[light stratus]

yuh uh

[paper hemlock]

nuh uh

[quasi meteor]

consider this: all clouds are hot due to gasses being explosive

[dark lily]

I'd be happy to help you convert it, if you need assistance

[light stratus]

idk I can explode and the entire cloud doesn't

[paper hemlock]

Saris, will we be getting any sneak peeks on the new faction? I'm really hyped to see what the architects do

[quasi meteor]

the activation energy must be hella high

[next urchin]

At this point, just letting me know things that are incorrect/broken after the conversion back to 1x speed is helpful

Well, me if it's Meltdown, Tapuck if it's normal stuff

[languid basin]

Hold up a minute

Are TRLs affected by electron clouds?

[next urchin]

Uhhh I don't think I added the buff, but I've meant to do so

[languid basin]

peak

[cerulean prairie]

This update was literally inspired by the heat pipes I had to add to Celeste's house.

[prisma dock]

That cannot be, because while crew speed was slowed, energy consumption was equally slowed.

[paper hemlock]

Y'all live near each other?

[cerulean prairie]

lol definitely no

[prisma dock]

What was the main reason (or the two main reasons) to revert most of the changes? I'm interested.

[paper hemlock]

I think it was just controversial like all the other times they attempted to change speed in a significant way

[prisma dock]

If that's true, that doesn't sound like a good reason. :/

[paper hemlock]

Why do you think it was reverted? If no one objected or they liked it it would've stayed, with some changes and tweaks of course

[prisma dock]

I dunno why. I can guess. But I'm interested in the reasons.

[paper hemlock]

There were many people who liked the changes, but there was also a majority that did not like it

It's not wise to keep or add a change that a good portion of the does not enjoy

Especially one as significant as major speed changes

[prisma dock]

But most of that is just people being accustomed. After a while they'd get accustomed again to the new ways. I think as a dev you gotta make sure that the reason why those that dislike it is a substantial one.

[next urchin]

Walt had to attach one of the heat pipes to me so he could overclock me

[next urchin]

Yeah, there's definitely a big element of resistance to change in regards to anything, but people have played with it for a bit now and I guess not enough people were specifically in support of the changes, so we're once again looking at how we can improve things in a way that most people are positive on

[kind estuary]

We are attempting to determine if Celeste's heat pipes are in fact connected to (enough) heat dissipation

[next urchin]

Fwiw we (devs) enjoyed playing with the changes. I will personally miss how half speed felt, aside from crew becoming aged tortoises

[vocal trout]

there will always be some people like this https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-times-old-man-angry-gif-12395547

[next urchin]

(They are not, she is scorching)

[prisma dock]

[StellarisEgalitarianAdvisorVoice] You seem overworked, have you considered joining a union? [/StellarisEgalitarianAdvisorVoice]

[vocal trout]

(walt build exchangers quick so she doesnt get scorched and delete the git repo)

[next urchin]

I would probably be a member of my union already if they didn't make it so difficult to see the membership fees 😒

[prisma dock]

I'm not sure I really liked the changes, but I may have low key liked them. If I may ask, what was even the goal of the speed changes? (aside from justifiedly nerfing the speed meta)

[tame comet]

new player experience, and late game performance i think

[next urchin]

People played pvp on 1/2 speed most of the time, and many newer players found combat at 1x overwhelming

[vocal trout]

im im being honest about half speed i like the drag equation change but not the crew molasses change - indifferent to the rest because it was introduced with the big alternative that is overclock
thats pretty much my thoughts on it

[tame comet]

i agree. the drag is totally fine

the crew and everything being halved just felt kinda shit, but the drag is completely 100% reasonable

[tame comet]

id argue playing pvp on half speed is totally fair because its pvp, you generally need more time to process stuff against actual people versus ai

ai is always predictable, people are not always

[vocal trout]

[citation needed]

[tame comet]

[citation needed]

[tame comet]

given that mrt can go like 180 and what is an armor

[bitter steppe]

so then you reduce the speed of everything by half, and play at 1x instead of 1/2?

[tame comet]

this is because 1x speed is generally the default speed most everywhere else

[bitter steppe]

and if newer players feel overwhelmed at 1x, cutting the speed in half benefits them too

[vocal trout]

i liked it more when the ship speeds were more equal

[prisma dock]

Yes, I agreed with that sentiment. I always HATED 1x speed for combat, especially when most domination games were held at 1x speed. So, it's not really possible then to achieve those goals without halfing the game's standard speed, huh? That's a bummer. And it's an even bigger bummer that players apparently didn't have a good reason to dislike the changes aside from "It doesn't feel like it used to."

[tame comet]

oh im not saying it doesnt, like the half speed changes are great for new players

[bitter steppe]

The problems were all outside of combat or crew seeming to move slow because people were used to seeing them move twice as fast

[tame comet]

also, the max game speed got indirectly halved, which is absolutely terrible for career

considering how much i turn to 8x for moving around or processing or mining

[vocal trout]

performance-wise 1x is also worse

[prisma dock]

The only part of the speed changes I actively disliked was that PD & Flak were useless because their dps/aiming wasn't updated to the new projectile speeds. But other than that, I couldn't really find a reason to dislike.

[tame comet]

a lot of my time in career is spent mining and processing and moving from place to place

[vocal trout]

id rather run 15 tps of 150 m/s gameplay than run 30

[tame comet]

this. when someone is laggy on 1x speed you can feel it so much more than half speed

[bitter steppe]

true, those were some of the wrinkles that could have potentially been addressed so that everything outside of combat felt good too, but some people thought it would be better to just revert most of the half speed changes

[prisma dock]

Ok so then, if there were so many good reasons to change the speed... why exactly was the decision made to kowtow to the "it doesn't feel like it used to" crowd and revert it??

[tame comet]

im playing with gf who is in NZ and turning the speed to half is so much more bearable because of the ping difference

[bitter steppe]

and at that point you really have to choose and commit to one path

[tame comet]

no they

they ean like

[next urchin]

I didn't feel this, though my career experience in half speed was co-op, tbf

[tame comet]

performance wise, pvp on 1x is worse

[vocal trout]

im not a dev - this comment was based on experience

[next urchin]

I don't think it's like gone forever, just being revised once again. It's not my area, though, so I'm not sure what's going on with it

[grim gyro]

Speed changes are dead! rejoice!

[prisma dock]

I rarely ever had to crank it up to 8x. And when I did, I was almost equally happy to have it run at 4x.

[next urchin]

I share that experience

[vocal trout]

8x is too slow for the type of career i play

[next urchin]

Fleet career?

Sitting and being a factory career?

[bitter steppe]

Our goal now is to get things back to "normal" feeling at 1/2, but keep some of the things that people were enjoying about the feel of how gameplay was in the last build

[prisma dock]

Ok, that's good to hear. Hope you can find a good solution. Just a note from me, next time, if the only reason people dislike it is the fact that they're accustomed to how things are, maybe you can trust in the fact that they're likely going to grow accustomed to the new changes over time too.

[vocal trout]

building

[bitter steppe]

Were was all of this vocal support two weeks ago?

[vocal trout]

smth smth there wasnt a need for it before

[prisma dock]

I said I liked it, but wasn't sure if I wasn't missing something bad about it.

[bitter steppe]

The only voices that had been speaking up over the past month were those that weren't having a great time with the speed changes

[prisma dock]

I wasn't ready to put a ring on it

[vocal trout]

i have crew construction on for combat reasons but holy damn career ships are so slow to build

[prisma dock]

Yeah cuz the unsatisfied people (especially those without good reasons) are always the loudest. Gotta factor that in.

[bitter steppe]

if you liked most of it, but felt some things could be better, tell us about those things!

[tame comet]

i do think looking at other options is probably better..?

i saw anti suggest the game starts at half speed, and to add onto that: some option to change the speed when an enemy appears, you can start it at half to when an enemy appears for new players, the combat is automatically kicked to half speed. easy to change for older players and doesnt really disturb much

[prisma dock]

I did.

I just wasn't staunch about it, because it was too soon.

[vocal trout]

(the option already exists iirc)

[tame comet]

i dont think it does, but doing that may help?

the option exists to remove the slowdown when an enemy appears, but that always stays as 1x

[bitter steppe]

I'm all too aware of the 'vocal minority', but the loudest voices tend to drown out the rest 😔

[prisma dock]

This is the world we live in...

[vocal trout]

was it removed???

[tame comet]

possibly?

idk

thats probably a decent start for new players but im not entirely sure

also worth mentioning i dont think my gf finds the cobmat overwhelming, but she does RTS

[vocal trout]

your gf is an outlier
favorite franchise?

[prisma dock]

Those who are quiet are busy thinking, while those who are not thinking are busy shouting.

[tame comet]

her, or me? her favorite franchise is probaly osu

shes also

[vocal trout]

doubly outlier

[tame comet]

actively learning the games knowledge first, because the games actual knowledge is overwhelming for her too

[vocal trout]

who laughs at ad hominem

[tame comet]

like ship building and parts and the UI

thats not really the fault of the game or anything that needs to be changed, its just a lot at once for her

-# also shes playing this game because i bought it for her and stuff

[tulip nebula]

16x when?
-# not mods

[vocal trout]

thats unavoidable tbh
it should be noted that rts and rhythm games both put a lot on emphasis on lag/latency and hand/eye coordination so shes not really the target audience for the 1/2x speed changes

[vocal trout]

responding to this again - is there not a dropdown menu for this?

[tame comet]

im not sure, now that im thinkign about it

[tame comet]

true

i thoughtit might be worth mentioning since shes new

i do think someone i introduced to cosmoteer did half speed, but that was becuase they were using railguns and wnated to lineup shots on vitals better

everyone else ive ever played with has liked 1x speed

[vocal trout]

i will say i think id have a more formulated opinion about the changes if it didnt come with oc

[tame comet]

oh i agree

i think pushing two massive changes at once wasnt a great idea, and i think oc shouldve been separated from half speed changes

[vocal trout]

i suppose trls were balanced with the changes in mind and so it couldnt be separated at first

[tame comet]

trls are something anyways, or so ive heard

[vocal trout]

if i was asked to taste test a punch i expect a raw punch not one spiked with heat

[languid basin]

my friends and i play on 1/2 speed because we do large-scale fleet combat, and our DM is running cosmo on a soviet 1960s orbital computation device that he pieced together out of the crashed mig-31 he found in his backyard

[tame comet]

half speed for large scale felet combat is totally fair

half speed for late game is also totally fair

[vocal trout]

its necessary for many players

[tame comet]

there is, you are correct

i do think it should default to half speed

and career should start at half

[vocal trout]

well theres an #1019739575683399840 post

[tame comet]

very trueline...

[next urchin]

Osu player opinions on "overwhelming" don't count 💀

[tame comet]

to be fair im also overwhelmed by osu

in her caseits less overstimulation and more overwhelming amounts of knowledge being dumped at once

[vocal trout]

wait til she sees a play with +EZHDFL

[tame comet]

shes like top 1.3k in the world

shes probably seen it

[remote charm]

oc chainguns seem to break with very long magazines

can't send a saved game rn cause data but I tried a 240 magazine for shits and giggles and eventually it seems to be grabbing ammo from all magazines at random

[frigid flax]

Has anyone else seen nukes not functioning properly

They just explode immediately

[remote charm]

Just tried that

Can confirm it explodes immediately

[frigid flax]

Funny

[vocal trout]

the classic magazine ammo refill rate outpaced by shots/s

[remote charm]

happens even with just80 long :{

[lusty zealot]

reported it

[minor valve]

thats intentional as walt has signed in a treaty banning the use of nuclear weapons

thank you all knowing walt for ensuring that we may kill each other slightly slower in this way

all hail walt!

[frigid flax]

Aren't lasers banned in war

Ban explosive charge aswell then

[pale python]

no thats just conventional hinge attachm,ents

[halcyon slate]

what i mean is that the same ship that could maintain an OC Boost over 10km at previous patch speed will now only be able to do so for 5km before overheating, probably because of the heat/battery used cost. It feels like a big nerf

[cerulean hound]

no* but fire weapons are, and anything that causes "unneeded or prolonged suffering"

arguably i would say that nukes fit the description too but you know how that is

walt updated the geneva conventions with this experimental build though considering nukes explode instantly

[tight helm]

fixed your small thrusters

[next urchin]

Heat/battery wasn't nerfed, it was doubled because game speed was effectively doubled. Ship speeds did not necessarily double, though, so it is possible that you get less bang for your buck with OC boost

It was OP anyway, though, so we'll see how it is now

[prisma dock]

That's not going to achieve what they wanted to. It was always possible to just play at 1/2x speed and most tournaments and pvp games were played at that speed. As I understand it, the devs wanted to make it so that this apparently widely popular "half speed" not only is the standard going forward, but also what the game is built around so that it feels as good as possible. That's more than just "let games start at 1/2x speed". But then they made the mistake of listening to players who apparently didn't really have a good reason to like or dislike it. And now we're stuck with no innovation as opposed to innovation that's not going to be perfect from the start but can be made so with time. Cause they can't really just re-implement a change that they just decided to roll back (even if the rolling back might've been a mistake).

[prisma dock]

As I understand it, they reverted almost all the half-speed changes, except for how drag works and the increased projectile speed relative to ship speed - effectively leading to slower ships. So that might mean that, your ship will now travel less distance for the same energy/heat input. They did that because speed was just too strong in the pvp meta. Every ship had to go fast, because it was the best way to mitigate damage and in some cases ultra light ships were next to impossible to hit in the right hands. That is, or should be, different now.

I support this.

[coarse spindle]

1/2 supporters should become really vocal now to troll Celeste so that she has to put the values back

[prisma dock]

Heh. Yeah I realize this sucks. But it's how it always is in society. You never value what you had until it's taken away.

Also so far it's just me raising a stink. ^^

[regal plume]

Celeste is a woman? 😮
Huh, I'm so used to game devs being male I assumed...

[prisma dock]

Aren't there many women working in game development by now?

[regal plume]

Yeah, but as devs in particular I don't think I've seen before

It's cool 🙂

[prisma dock]

Huh. I feel like in most or at least a lot of indie game dev teams there's at least one woman - or at least that's my impression when I care to look at who's developing whatever gem I'm currently into.

[regal plume]

Tend to be in art or marketting in my limited experience (StS, FTL, Factorio)

[next urchin]

Definitely rarer to find women in programming in particular, but a fair few in art and game design, at least from when I was at uni

[regal plume]

🔥

[next urchin]

There was 1 other woman in my programming cohort lol

[prisma dock]

It's because of their slender fingers - they're better at holding fine pencils. 🙃

[tame comet]

the other dev on my team is female, so its not that uncommon

[prisma dock]

what are you developing?

(i know off topic)

[pearl mango]

when i was younger and had an interest in going into that i did some internships at studios in sweden at the time

over there the coders were almost all men, but art teams were around 50/50 give or take, writers were mostly women, and most CM's and stuff on that end were girls too

it was overall more men than women in the workplace but it wasnt crazy

[prisma dock]

That's good to hear. I also work in a field dominated by the other sex which is slowly changing. It's nice not having to feel like you're the one weird one for working in the field that you're passionate about.

[pearl mango]

i work in a field that is mostly women atm, the execs etc tend to be a bit more likely to be men though

but its definitely a lot more women than men

i dont think ive ever really noticed it as an impact on work itself. i mean obviously im aware i work with a lot more women than i do men, but it doesnt really seem like its relevant or matters at all

[tame comet]

as dumb as this sounds, minecraft modpack (theres a lot more to it trust me )

like 3+ years

[prisma dock]

I do think it makes a huge difference due to how our different upbringing and treatment by society means men and women look at the world incredibly differently, but this has gotten very off topic by now.

[prisma dock]

that's probably nothing small.

[tame comet]

it isnt, but i assume people turn their heads when i say mc modpack

[prisma dock]

Ok, first time opening Cosmoteer after the speed change has been reverted and I must say I realize now how much I actually hate how quickly the crew is wiggling in their rooms and with what superhuman speed they're moving through the corridors (even without walkways). It's a minor thing, but that alone will always make me want to play at 1/2x speed.

They're like tiny ants each in an invisible racing car.

[vague aurora]

I don't mind it.

I love the old speed.

Cosmoteer felt sooo sluggish in meltdown.

It's like finally back on track (haha get it) again.

[prisma dock]

Yeah cuz they were moving at non-insane speeds.

[vague aurora]

If you want realism on your battery rats play a more realistic space sim.

[prisma dock]

Btw, this is the first time testing the dmg of TRLs using this ship and while they seem to be good against armor, they seem to utterly suck against shields. Am I missing something? I mean, I like that actually. I like the idea of shields being good against heat.

[prisma dock]

It's not realism that I want. I just want to be able to follow what's happening somewhat easily.

And when crew goes neyommmmmm it's kinda hard.

Also, in very certain cases I actually appreciated the ability to go down to what was essentially 1/16x speed for when I wanted to carefully analyse crew behaviour in order to optimize logistics setups.

Made it that much more easy to spot tiny errors.

[coarse spindle]

Wouldn't it be possible to only tweak crew speed and power/item use at the same time? Or is there something in the speed that influences those as well

[halcyon slate]

I also liked the slower pace of the game, I think it made everything that was happening during battles more legible. So i'm curious what made the game feels sluggish for you, was that the lower fire rate?

[coarse spindle]

I assume there would be a problem with cannons, as their ammo use depends on their fire rate

(reply to my previous message)

[tepid garden]

Here's the thread where the half speed concerns were voiced.
https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1371284364562006186

[prisma dock]

Huh, that's weird. This Ion setup previously (when speed changes were active) worked without flickering. Now it doesn't anymore. But that shouldn't be the case, if crew speed and energy consumption both were doubled. It should've stayed the same relative to each other.

What could be causing this?

[prisma dock]

Great, I didn't even know this thread existed.

[prisma dock]

Could it be that charging time for triple batteries did not change as they should??

Cause that would mean that the game is now going twice as fast, but crew doesn't charge the batteries from LRs twice as fast.

[prisma dock]

VOICE YOUR ANGER:
#1379825618727735427 message
😉

[bitter steppe]

Could be negativity bias where the large chunk of feedback on the speed changes was negative because the players who liked it or didn't mind it didn't give positive feedback about everything they liked. If some players enjoyed most of the changes and only disliked some, if the only feedback is what is disliked the impression is that it's all bad

[prisma dock]

That's why it's good to wait till most people have a good impression and handling of the tested feature, before acting on feedback. Not only would it make the acclimatization-bias smaller, but it would also generate more all-encompassing feedback.

[bitter steppe]

The complexity of the changes was compounded by the addition of the entire thermal system and overclocking

[tame comet]

its mostly the look and feel for me. watching a heavy laser sit there and do absolutely nothing for like a second really killed any excitement and everything felt so slow. 2x speed didnt help either because it feels so off and gross. it doesnt really give the idea of me optimizing everything and the ship performing at maximum power anymore.

I also believe this isnt the best approach to something like this. im not well equipped enough to give a better approach outside of the simple half the speed of new careers, but like anthraax said its also a lot as its two major systems at once

[bitter steppe]

It feels off compared to stable, but after having played on the beta branch so much now everything feels off for me

I really feel like players would have acclimated to it if we had given it more time to develop and fix the things that felt off since there were so many other benefits (from my perspective) to the pace and feel of the game overall

which is only to say that from here our goal will be to capture everything that did feel good and find a way to integrate that into the current game speed

[tame comet]

im ngl i probably wouldve just gotten a mod to revert it. i do think if you gave people more time theyd warm up but we're already warming up right now, some of us cant even cooldown properly because overclocking is hard

[bitter steppe]

But that's also because it's an early access preview to a whole new system that itself isn't even finalized yet

the ideology of combining the two was that if you're going to have to relearn the game either way, you're only going to want to have to do it once

[tame comet]

unfortunately some people had to relearn it three times

[tepid garden]

Yeah, the poll is the reason we reverted it. The written feedback just helps us determine that "why" behind it, but with 1/3 not liking the change, that's too many "no's" to go through with it in its current form.

[bitter steppe]

When and where was that poll btw?

I want to make sure I saw it and voted 😅

[bitter steppe]

which is only to say that from here our goal will be to capture everything that did feel good and find a way to integrate that into the current game speed

No matter which way it goes I'll do my best to ensure your work, time, and effort don't go to waste Tapuck, Celeste, et al.

[granite sapphire]

can we go back to half speed? i liked it

[tranquil wedge]

#1370799036591898837 message

[bitter steppe]

Two whole weeks ago... what about how people feel about it now that they've had two weeks to acclimate?
I wonder how much the results would change

[grim gyro]

nononono

[prisma dock]

"it feels so off and gross" Are you sure this isn't just you having grown accustomed to the old speed and you would've grown just as accustomed to the new speed with time?

Imagine the game had always had the new speed.

Would you have disliked it at all??

[prisma dock]

Exactly. I feel this too. Initially when I first tried Meltdown, I thought "eeeeewwww crew is sooo slow now", but after a while I started to appreciate it without noticing and now I really hate the old hectic crew speed, having gotten a taste of something better.

[prisma dock]

👍 👍 👍 Hope you can manage that.

[paper hemlock]

Damn, missiles and heat is a nasty combo

HE missiles in particular

[prisma dock]

Why is that? I haven't yet found out what offensive heat does exactly - especially what it does to shields.

[paper hemlock]

Heat reduces penetration resistance, so when paired with a projectile weapon the heat pretty much negates the one problem with most projectile weapons - armor

[granite sapphire]

doesnt do an awful lot vs shields

[granite sapphire]

well shields are also a big problem for projectile weapons id say around even with how strong ls and ocls now are

[paper hemlock]

Based on what I'm seeing heat makes it a lot easier to destroy most tiles

[prisma dock]

Ah cool that makes sense. And how does it affect shields? Does it also decrease penetration resistance?
I feel like this information on how it affects enemy defensive measures should be part of the tooltip of the TRL.

[paper hemlock]

Heat I believe applies to the actual shield generator

[bitter steppe]

heat missiles apply the heat directly to the shield generator, they can very quickly set a shield on fire and disable it if the enemy doesn't have defenses

[prisma dock]

Yeah, honestly the (one single) test I did with them against TRLs was that Shields can almost tank TRLs forever, as long as you have some fire-extinguishers near the shields (which you should anyway). Not that I'm complaining. I like the idea of shields being good against heat.

while armor melts

[bitter steppe]

add more amp pumps and see what happens

[paper hemlock]

Monolith shivering their timbers rn

[prisma dock]

I used this ship. Does it not have enough of those?

[prisma dock]

As these low tech robber barons should.

[bitter steppe]

Considering there is going to be a whole faction that will be themed around thermal weapons they are bound to face each other 🔥

[upbeat sequoia]

Are small thrusters correct now?
2 small thrusters OC = 3600 x 2 = 7200
1 Large OC = 4000

Seems small are now over powered

[paper hemlock]

ARCHITECTS, SHOW ME A SNEAK PEEK AT THE NEW FACTION AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

https://tenor.com/view/god-of-war-do-it-gif-15871337907184961450

[bitter steppe]

Hard to tell with the paint since I'm not in game but I see a fair few Dilation pumps, not many Amp pumps.

[paper hemlock]

40 amp and 30 dil

[bitter steppe]

Several of potential candidates are posted on The Tidepool, there are even paint streams

[paper hemlock]

Tidepool?

[prisma dock]

I think you found a bug. OC Large thrusters should now give 8k thrust, because I know that previously with the "new but now old speed" it also used to have 4k when overclocked. @tepid garden @next urchin

[bitter steppe]

#links [Wave] clan community server

[granite sapphire]

with enough amps trls will slowly melt down shields due to overheating them and bypassing thermal systems. this is slow, but an overall inexorable process without standout fire control systems that ships will never invest into widely in pvp due to how expensive it is. this is the concept behind this ship that uses 8ocls and 55 thermal storages to fight a battle of attrition with pure trl offense. its worked very damn well in pvp testing despite its inefficiency https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1325823059906662532/1379541324277219471/White_Dwarf_mk1.png?ex=6841463a&is=683ff4ba&hm=7433119bd0bd628a9fcddcf56508b943c56b529c2b45f8299f4fa7a9ce9c2253&

very toxic and annoying ship

pure hitscan with a swiveling fast turret means its rly annoying to spread the damage too

[tepid garden]

yeee. So far I've fixed Large thruster thrust(OC is just a mult of the base), MRT Fuel rate, and Large reactor battery pickup rate

[prisma dock]

I feel like a ship specialized against TRLs will be of good use in the future. ^^

[granite sapphire]

the ship cant rly die until its 55 heat storages fill up or an enemy gets enough damage around the front

[prisma dock]

TRL mirrors will shake things up

[granite sapphire]

the issue with specialized ships like that is you compromise all other matchups. its generally just not worth running seriously which is why we dont see them

i doubt that will change

[prisma dock]

🪲 🦶

[granite sapphire]

ships will obviously probably incorporate better fire control systems but trl will still whittle ships down despite that most likely

[paper hemlock]

It's... so peak...

[bitter steppe]

I believe there might even be a paint stream happening sometime tomorrow, but no promises

[granite sapphire]

i miss half speed...

[hard orbit]

Is there really any difference for multiplayer? Wont people just go back to using 1/2 speed like they did before?

[bitter steppe]

It was much more than just speed changes, but most importantly drag changes that made flying spaceships feel more floaty than flying through soup. More drag also means ramming works different as you tend to get stuck between the ramming force of the ships thrust and the drag of space soup pushing you back into the enemy ship, aka ramlock

From my impressions those aspects were generally well liked, but other things like how fast crew move or the sounds of certain parts or weapons were less liked

[prisma dock]

From the patch notes it sounded like the changes in drag and shot speed were kept, weren't they?

[paper hemlock]

Yes

The only thing I'd change is crew speed, they feel really fast rn

[bitter steppe]

it'll take some time to adjust things to feel the same. there were some changes, yes, but from the testing I've done so far it doesn't feel the same at all, does it?

[paper hemlock]

Not like the turtle speed they were previously, just maybe like a 20-30% speed decrease

[bitter steppe]

the thing with adjusting crew speed is that crew speed dictates the pace of everything in the game. how fast they move and deliver power is the game speed

[paper hemlock]

Fair

[bitter steppe]

basically, you want 3/4 speed?

[paper hemlock]

lol

They're walking at like 30 m/s rn though

[bitter steppe]

Well, y'know what? I'm not gonna be the one to ask the Devs for 3/4 speed

[prisma dock]

At that point we might as well revert to the initial Meltdown speed. I mean, what else remains of these recent changes, if we revert crew speed again? (as we should imo).+

[paper hemlock]

I'm saying we should revert the crew speed, previous crew speed was too slow and current crew speed feels too fast, an in-between would work best imo

Not saying

guh

[granite sapphire]

crew speed doesnt matter

its just what defines the speed of the game combined with everything else

[paper hemlock]

It very much matters

[prisma dock]

Hm, then you'd end up with having to set the energy generation and dps of ship parts to 20-30% too for balance to remain, which generates some weird numbers in tooltips.

[granite sapphire]

if you change crew speed you change everything else to accompany it

[paper hemlock]

Balancing is hard 😭

[prisma dock]

Yeah. Roidrage crew feels unsettling.

[paper hemlock]

It just feels wrong and I think a slight crew speed decrease would do good

[prisma dock]

Ok, 3/4x speed it is then.

[narrow blade]

celeste boutta explode rn

[paper hemlock]

I feel changing the crew speed isn't the hard part, it's said speed change changing everything else

[bitter steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-no-angry-steve-carell-michael-scott-gif-5606969

[near flax]

anthraax i like your status btw

[prisma dock]

(yes you guys are the baddies)

[paper hemlock]

damn

[narrow blade]

yeah but we have a weird cross thats burning with cursed flames from terraria so you lose!!!!

[prisma dock]

And we have the power of friendship

[bitter steppe]

while sort of funny, not great imagery, even if you disagree

[prisma dock]

...sort of... cmon. It's just funny.
Also, I'm black I get to do this - listen to black lived experience and so on. 😉

[narrow blade]

i fixed it

(there is no compromise)

ok i made it even better

you see. the head of the guy with the "532IMOMISE?" is small because he is stupid and doesnt know how to write anything on a sign

[bitter steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-por-que-no-los-dos-yey-gif-15089379

[paper hemlock]

Average 2022 AI

[prisma dock]

Average AI period

[paper hemlock]

Mmm, they've gotten scarily better recently

But I don't want to steer the conversation into AI talk

HEAT

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-happy-jumping-gif-26555219

[vague aurora]

Fuck AI, I hope it is wiped off the face of earth like in the end of Terminator series.

[hollow gull]

it is over.

[regal plume]

I used a coding agent today to delegate a number of easy tasks and make some new classes
Was very useful!

[vague aurora]

I don't mean tools like these, search engine is kind of an Ai too and so os the behaviour of cosmoteer ships for example. I mean those image splattering abominations.

[granite sapphire]

me evaporating a small lake to generate a picture of a cat with a watermelon for a body :333

[vague aurora]

Uh

Just to stay on topic of Meltdown here is this very related image.

[narrow blade]

yay!

[stuck roost]

Disabling fancy light and SFX are a great mesure against lag I FIND it sad that you must have it enabled or you see suddenly your ship melting down without any explanations

[paper hemlock]

Maybe a simple gradient could be good when it's off

[granite sapphire]

why do trls have this strange behavior where their aoe originates from further inside the enemy? its like they have pen

its rly good so idc since i use them but is it indended?

[stuck roost]

Are you litterally saying you don't care about the strenght of a weapon if you're the one with an advantage?

[granite sapphire]

if its intended behavior yeah why would i care about it

i dont think hlbs phasing small shields is intended but i dont see any avoider mains complaining bc its fine balance wise and is cool and adds a use case

[light stratus]

is heat making parts weaker listed anywhere ingame?

[stuck roost]

Yeah but I've seen you complain about things that worked against your archetype and avoider mains often complains about small and large cannons phasing

[pale python]

its not a circle applied its more of an oval

also yeah thats kinda odd and idk why it happens

[granite sapphire]

i dont think any of my archetypes ive played have suffered from the same type of exploit power gain like cannon phasing. i had mentioned nukes being op multiple times but past that cgmrts didnt rly have anything op about them. even their utilization of mrt is mostly balanced and fair in their context

and literally everyone does that, its to be expected. people will bring up stuff thats unbalanced mostly when theyre on the other end of the stick

[stuck roost]

that aint much good faith there

[granite sapphire]

ive also brought up ocions being able to go straight through small shields (?????) to be told its entirely intentional. so im just not putting it past anyone anymore

[crimson osprey]

As do I

[hollow gull]

what?

[plucky fossil]

i thought it was fine and i live in crew logistic land

[plucky fossil]

it is????????

i thought only mining laser was intentional

[plucky fossil]

not yet

[plucky fossil]

it's literally the same as you're used to

[plucky fossil]

and you can't even scale everytjing with it due to congestion existing

[remote charm]

can confirm

he just held me there

[granite sapphire]

rip

[remote charm]

yeah im not a great pilot or anything but youre right in that 8 oc tb makes any ship helpless

[cunning swift]

idk I've fought ships that just did not care that I had 8 oc tb

[remote charm]

i would like to know those ships

[sharp root]

both of these TRL setups have roughly equivalent shield heat generation and can just barely melt the shield down
left has 2 TRL + 18 amps, right has 3 TRL with 16 amps
is the diminishing returns for hitting a shield with multiple TRL supposed to be this aggressive?

[crimson osprey]

To avoid any misunderstandings, lets clarify:
-Multiple TRLS on the same system have a steep diminishing return
-Diminishing returns don't change based on what TRLs are shooting at
-Shields allow a small percentage of TRL heat striking them to be transferred to the emitter

With that out of the way, yes multiple TRLs on the same system drop off in value incredibly quickly. That's why you rarely see more than two. While it yields more heat per second, the cost of sustaining three is often not worth the gain.

TRLs are in a weird spot right now and will probably need more tweaks since every thermal related adjustment will greatly impact their performance.

(I'm aware shield debuffs are a thing that only happens when TRLs strike shields, but that's different from the notion of a variable diminishing return based on the nature target struck)

[sharp root]

▣ with purely armor, all of these setups performed the same though
1 TRL + 120 amps, 2 TRL + 60 amps, 3 TRL + 40 amps, 4 TRL + 30 amps

ran a DPS test and they took nearly the exact same time to melt through a block of armor

▣ multiple TRL seems to scale way worse with shields compared to armor

[crimson osprey]

Yup, the ones on the right will start off stronger than taper off as they run out of energy

[granite sapphire]

p sure these all have greatly differing power consumptions

[sharp root]

▣ I have near perfect uptime with the 4 TRL ship on the right :p

[granite sapphire]

imo 2trl is a happy medium for pure trl damage especially because trl isnt a burst weapon but a tool to deal inexorable damage over time constantly

[crimson osprey]

Much doubt

[sharp root]

▣ with 20 amps I should have like 60 - 70 amps of damage output which holds up for armor but not for shields

[lusty zealot]

is it that only 1 TRL at a time is applying heat to the generator?

[granite sapphire]

shields matter a lot more

[sharp root]

▣ that seems to be the case

when I tested my 4 TRL ship, only firing 1 had the same heat generation as firing all 4

bizarre

[granite sapphire]

sounds about right

[crimson osprey]

Got time to VC a live demo?

[lusty zealot]

that doesn't seem intentional, or if it is i don't think it should be the case

[lusty zealot]

the debuff not stacking is fair

heat application not stacking isn't, imo

[sharp root]

it took a lot of logistics work to get this to sustain but it does and I'm proud of it

[granite sapphire]

ooof that heat generation.... ur radiators are full blasting

[sharp root]

except it does jack all against shields for some reason

[sharp root]

▣ I can full fire my thrust and TRL and have just enough venting to keep from overheating, so I have 64 thermal batts for tanking with my shields

[crimson osprey]

I'm pretty sure that can't be the case based on your setup. If you have less amps and more turrets and the TTK is the same, additional TRLs MUST be making up the difference

[granite sapphire]

its a tradeoff, but my white dwarf has spare heat venting in spades with everything full blasting

[crimson osprey]

If you had more turrets and the same number of amps, if additional TRLs weren't contributing, the TTK would be identical

[lusty zealot]

TTK vs armour is the same (approximately). vs shields it is not

[crimson osprey]

I don't think that's the smoking gun you think it is

[crimson osprey]

In both tests, the results, while similar were not the same

[lusty zealot]

?

[sharp root]

running a more exhaustive test it does seem 4 TRL will generate significantly more than 1 TRL on that ship when firing against shields

[crimson osprey]

My initial suspicion without us doing a live test together is that the results against shields are being distorted by the smaller variance created by the shields heat transfer multiplier reduction combined with the heat exchanger's flat reduction

[sharp root]

I also have a 76 amp ship w/ 1 TRL that has no difficulty melting shields down
while my 20 amp ship w/ 4 TRL can't melt through shields with any kind of decent overheating protection

pure armor DPS test for those 2 ships

I dont mind if the difference is damage is intentional, but it does seem quite aggressive

[crimson osprey]

I think you have too many variables and it's seriously muddying the waters 😅

[sharp root]

im not looking for exact values tbf im just wondering whether multiple TRL are supposed to perform this poorly against shields

[plucky fossil]

repair cost difference?

[sharp root]

reran the test without the dilators and the DPS difference is still there, but the armor gash is the same size now

[crimson osprey]

For testing that, I think you want to remove the exchanger first and foremost. Shields apply a massive heat reduction penalty that is then being mitigated by a flat reduction (the exchanger).

[sharp root]

no heat exchangers and dilators, 76 AMP 1 TRL ship broke all 4 shields before the 20 AMP 4 TRL ship broke even a single one

all 4 beams were hitting the same shield too

[granite sapphire]

if you were running the anti armor dps check from my white dwarf vs your 4trl this will be the difference maker as i have exchanger investment to melt stuff behind armor a bit quicker

[sharp root]

I wanted to run that test but for whatever reason your ship file is corrupted and I can't load it

[granite sapphire]

huh

happens

how did u test it then?

[sharp root]

I didn't

its a test I want to run but I can't get your ship form anywhere lmao

[crimson osprey]

Yeah, you still have too many variables to draw strong conclusions I'm afraid

[sharp root]

h alright

ill send you both ships so you can test then?

[crimson osprey]

Other than that the TRLs diminishing return is severe

[granite sapphire]

can we actually get proper info on how trl diminishing returns work

[crimson osprey]

Nah, you need to use the scientific method, not ships with wildly different setups

As in, create testing platforms with as many controls as possible, then change one variable at a time

[granite sapphire]

all i get whenever i ask is "its in the game files" which is awfully unhelpful as im not interested in digging around game files to find basic game mechanic stats and i dont really know how to do so

[sharp root]

im not really looking to exactly determine anything-
I just want a yes/no to whether multiple TRL against shields is supposed to reduce damage by this much

[crimson osprey]

I hear ya. In order to determine what's going on, it would take some controlled testing

Which, imo is preferable to asking a dev to check code when we can figure it out for ourselves

[sharp root]

I did try to look through the .rules file to locate the formula, to no avail
... and in any case how is ingame testing supposed to determine if multiple TRLs hitting shields is bugged or not

[granite sapphire]

i feel like its a bit odd to have to mechanically test stuff like that, feels like if we had to test ions manually to see how ion combinations lose damage

[sharp root]

I wanted to find the formula, calculate the intended damage by hand, and see if that was mirrored ingame

[granite sapphire]

i suppose i can try to like do some isolated testing. i still think 2 or maybe 3 trl remains superior for heat efficiency alone

[crimson osprey]

By using the scientific method and controlling your variables, you can figure out how much additional TRLs effect shield heating, then compare that to how they effect armor heating

[granite sapphire]

just shoot it at some shield setups

[sharp root]

with that you can determine the difference between shield and armor heating, but you can't determine whether the shield heating is the intended value as dictated by game code or whether its off by some amount

[crimson osprey]

If the results are similar, no bug. If they are not, you can look at ingame reasons that explain the variance. If find them, no bug. If you can't keep looking, might be a bug

[sharp root]

im pretty sure there are some special interactions with multiple TRL on a shield that would make this unreliable?
I think there is supposed to be some damage reduction, I just don't know whether it should be by this much

[crimson osprey]

The heat to shields SHOULD result in a predictable fraction of the heat to armor

[sharp root]

this loops back to the fact I can't determine said fraction as I couldn't locate the formula in the game .rules files

thus me asking here :p

[crimson osprey]

You don't really need it to figure this out

[granite sapphire]

i feel like its relevant

lol

[crimson osprey]

yeah, it would be helpful, and these would be nice to have, but that doesn't make this a dead end

[sharp root]

but... I do to be able to know whether the results are intended behavior or not

[crimson osprey]

yeah, going around in circles 😅

[granite sapphire]

like is it some secret forbidden fruit? i cant find it anywhere in the rules file ive asked like 4 times no response ever. shouldnt it be relatively simple to just give us the formula? same as ion combinations and railgun accelerator counts

[crimson osprey]

I think we're coming at this from different angles. I'm not arguing whether things should be more transparent, I'm saying if you're going to do testing, if you control your variables and do things scientifically, you can figure it out

[sharp root]

that much I agree with, but I also can't come to any conclusion if I don't have information I inherently need to say anything about the results of my tests :p

if I determine say shield heat is 20% of armor heat, if I don't know what the intended amount is how can I say whether its supposed to be 20% or not

[granite sapphire]

i think you could just find that out first and ask a dev

[crimson osprey]

I think if you can determine 20% of heat is being transferred (it's less than that) then you know what is. If you have an ironclad demo that proves it all the better. At that point if you can learn what's intended and there is a variance, that sounds like a bug worth drawing a dev's attention to

[sharp root]

I suppose that much is fair, but I'm not even looking to draw dev attention, just posted the question here because I suspect someone who knows TRL's inner math workings could give me a short answer :p

I don't even think its bugged (although I wouldn't be surprised if it is) I just wanted to double check what I was seeing is intended

[prisma dock]

Someone build an irl TRL and point it at Sam Altman Chat GPT servers.

[granite sapphire]

i dont think anyone but maybe plaus understands that stuff on a mathematical level

[tranquil cape]

distance dependance :(((((

[sharp root]

hmm

in that case equalizer should know, they actually corrected some of Plaus's math in Excelsior

[granite sapphire]

nobody has been seriously running trl as a primary really past eqs ship

[prisma dock]

Does that say something about the weapon or is it too soon to say?

[crimson osprey]

They don't. The closest one to breaking down and understanding the math outside of the dev team is EQ, and they're still wrestling with it

[sharp root]

though actually
"(it's less than that)" implies that the value is at least partially known (and intended)
so I got the answer I was looking for anyways

[granite sapphire]

well we have, and it is for sure very powerful, but my point is that we are really the first ones (me circles eq and plaus) to try to seriously understand its vague unexplained mechanics

[crimson osprey]

I heard a number once. Not sure if it still holds true and that's all I'll say until I'm sure

[granite sapphire]

my trl cruiser is seriously strong and trl is a valid primary weapon

[crimson osprey]

Have have a couple TRL mains. They do fine, they just aren't as effective as combining them with a finisher in my experience

[crimson osprey]

And no. You're not 🔥

[granite sapphire]

excuse me?

i mean id be glad if u guys shared if u have a wealth of knowledge because i havent heard anything

[plucky fossil]

and what makes it worse is that some of the behavior is just bugs lol

[crimson osprey]

you're not the first ones to try to seriously understand it's vague unexplained mechanics

[sharp root]

I think balance concil is being intentionally cryptic about what they do know :p
Anti has said before they hide a lot of meta knowledge so the community at wide can discover it themselves

[granite sapphire]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sharp root]

given that Meltdown has been in the works for so long I wouldn't be surprised if we're retracing steps taken months ago by them

[plucky fossil]

i don't think the math behind the weapon and how it actually works is meta knowledge

[granite sapphire]

if youre being intentionally cryptic and know stuff but arent sharing i have no way of knowing that you hve been doing stuff and you might as well not be actually pushing it if you dont share that knowledge at all tbh

[pale python]

[sharp root]

which I appreciate a lot from balance council btw, very nice of them, but I agree it is frustrating when people start being cryptic about it, just don't say anything at all? 😭

[crimson osprey]

OK that's super misleading. BC isn't being cryptic or hiding anything. We DID agree not to share a lot of our stuff for the first couple of weeks so people could feel the joy of discovery. You've been on VC with me. I don't hide anything. I share what I can when asked. HOWEVER, I won't share anything as fact that I'm not 100% on and trying to explain TRL in detail is freaking 3d chess

Lets crush this notion RIGHT NOW

[sharp root]

im sorry if that came off as aggressive, I have no issue with that- .

[vague aurora]

Oh yes please.

[crimson osprey]

It's fine, I just don't want to deal with any weird conspiracy theories. The BC (and I in particular) put a TON of work into understanding, breaking and helping to rebalance TRLs. Both diminishing returns were added after I broke the hell out of it multiple times. The numbers exist, but it's very difficult to impart everything as someone who did it mostly by intuition and feel, and I wasn't privy to everything so there are gaps in what I know

[vague aurora]

Like that famous META server, I want to see is bombed to the ground by railguns.

Preferrably overclocked >;]

[plucky fossil]

that would probably release a lot of heavy metals into the environment :(

[vague aurora]

True...

[sharp root]

yea fair
I actually now wonder how exactly I can measure heat difference between shields and armor
is there some sort of dev mode panel that allows for viewing precise heat values?

[crimson osprey]

There is, and there is a discussion about it between Celeste and Eq somewhere on the Tidepool

[sharp root]

oop found it

well I know what I'm spending my evening on .

[plucky fossil]

document and report the strange stuff!

*document behaviors in general

also it might be worth teleporting a ship inside the turret to change the impact of passive dissapation

i can make u a no dissapation/spread mod if it will help

[stuck roost]

There seem to have a desync caused when using the select tool in creative mode on ships or parts with the burnt status

[regal plume]

oh wow, the crew are absolutely racing around now 😮

[twilit matrix]

New idea for travel: launch a tiny ship with overclocked tractor beams and hyperjump to it.

[granite sapphire]

i wouldve expected that we would have an emergency patch to fix stuff like oc larges and oc ions doing double their indended dps by now

devs are aware yes?

[tranquil cape]

they are intentionally doubled to match the speed change reverting?

[pale python]

oc larges are said to be fixed

[bitter steppe]

To further clarify: All of the TRL numbers have gone through multiple reworks and the damage formula works differently than any other part in the game with amp and dilation pumps, different values based on number of outputs... We're still early enough in testing that it's possible to figure things out easier with iterative testing (the way Quix tends to build and test things) vs trying to figure out the math behind them first. Quix's comments could be interpreted as cryptic if you don't know him at all, but I'd say it's much more likely that he's just trying to encourage you to build stuff and test it to verify that it even works the way the math says it's supposed to

[granite sapphire]

well they still only give 4000kn

[pale python]

ah thrusters not reactors

[granite sapphire]

idk if they changed what the numbers represent bc it should technically be 8000 now

yea sry

[pale python]

https://tenor.com/view/bonk-funny-cat-bonk-bonk-bonk-bonk-bonk-bonk-bonk-cat-funny-hammer-gif-22703304

[granite sapphire]

i was being vague

[granite sapphire]

thats fine and all and iterative testing has its place, but for stuff like basic stats i dont think anyone should be expected to have to test these to get any sort of basic understanding of how it works. especially with how god damn tedious testing stuff like heat efficiency is when you dont have the numbers; i tried to test the cost-efficiency cooling included of different pure trl counts with amps and radiators, but without mathematical knowledge it becomes very tedious and unscientific trial and error

all i got was that 4trl is intolerable

in terms of heat generation

this is stuff that by all rights should be modeled with functions, but we just dont know any of the numbers so its impossible

[bitter steppe]

This is still early public preview and the internal workings have changed multiple times, so I honestly couldn't tell you the damage formula off hand. I know principles on how the system works and there are lots of ways to configure them to see what actually works in practice.

What we do know for sure is that pumps scale based on how many outputs they are connected to, I think they also still scale power use on the same amount of pumps if you add more outputs

[next urchin]

The numbers (and the formulae they're part of) are written in the rules as comments for the most part

[bitter steppe]

All I really mean to say is that if you don't get a direct answer from the Balance Council on something it's either because we don't know or we're not sure enough to say with certainty and don't want to have it come back to bite us if we give bad info

[next urchin]

I don't even know the formulae off the top of my head at the moment. The TRL has changed in behaviour so much

[bitter steppe]

But we're not intentionally trying to keep things from anyone at this point, we'll share what info we're able/allowed

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone Small preview patch:

• Fixed area-based effects occasionally missing high speed ships due to using 1 tick old location data
• Corrected Large Thruster thrust from half-speed value
• Corrected MRT fuel usage from half-speed value
• Corrected Large Reactor pickup time from half-speed value

[lusty zealot]

yipee

[sharp root]

ships are no longer slow yipee

time to re-enable all my mods for the billionth time :D

[tranquil cape]

isnt there a setting to prevent them from turing off like that?

[bitter steppe]

weren't you just asking about how long it would be until the hotfix for LT? lol

[sharp root]

yuuki was

[rough dock]

I don't know if it has changed since last I played with them, but I was arriving at the conclusion that two thermal resonance lances was the objectively correct number of lances. One lance requires a ton of expensive pumps, and with three lances, it starts to get hard to power all the pumps 100%. Though, I have seen evidence that I may not fully understand lance mechanics.

[sharp root]

from my testing, higher TRL counts have better cost efficiency, do more damage against armor, but generate more heat and do worse against shields

[coral cove]

real
-# granted for a different reason

[sharp root]

2 or 3 seems to be the optimal count

[languid basin]

peeeeeak

[sharp root]

by some miracle I managed to get a 4 TRL setup to sustain but it does so little damage against shields

that its just not usuable

theres just so many variables when it comes to TRL 😭

[rough dock]

I would like to see a system where pumps have diminishing returns based on distance from lance nozzle. Or any system that makes the placement of pump blocks less arbitrary. It feels wrong having something like that be completely indifferent to position. Something like that would also probably require a complete rebalance.

[granite sapphire]

WAAAAAALT

YOU FORGOT THE IONS NOOO

[next urchin]

No one understands TRL mechanics

[granite sapphire]

gonna have to start running the double damage oc ions to get this fixed

[granite sapphire]

i personally think a modular system where the placement of modules is almost entirely flexible is very interesting and unique for logistics

[next urchin]

They aren't double damage? Unless I missed Tapuck doubling OC ion damage himself

[granite sapphire]

they deal double the dps

[next urchin]

Yeah, because time is 2x as fast

[granite sapphire]

because i think you all forgot to unhalf it or whatever

no but its twice as strong like in 1/2x

[next urchin]

All weapons have ~2x DPS

[sharp root]

they deal so much damage they're absolutely broken rn im pretty sure a cooldown somewhere was not doubled or something

[granite sapphire]

well, something was doubled twice

more accurately

[sharp root]

they just vaporized shield setups in like 5 seconds flat

[granite sapphire]

right?

[rough dock]

Sure it is unique, but there is no challenge in designing a good pump core when pump placement can be arbitrary.

[sharp root]

the challenge in designing a pump core is routing your heat pipes in an efficient way :>

[next urchin]

It's entirely possible something is wrong, but they used to be 200 damage per strike, now they're 400 damage per strike

[sharp root]

and also making sure everything receives enough power, as pumps are rather power hungry especially with 2 or 3 TRLs

[granite sapphire]

it becomes difficult/interesting to create a core when you start increasing your trl counts and the pumps power consumption makes it hard to sustain the pumps without flickering. not to mention pipe efficiency

[granite sapphire]

uhhh and did you all also shorten the cooldown?

[sharp root]

cooldown should be doubled for half speed I think

[next urchin]

Half-speed left the hit intervals of beams the same, just halved the damage

[granite sapphire]

circles and multiple other players can confirm something is very wrong

either that or oc ions are just op and built different idk

[next urchin]

eg. this is the reversion of base ions from half-speed

[next urchin]

Half-speed / full-speed context fucks with balance in unpredictable ways. It's also possible they're somehow broken

Oh, wait, the ions have a hit interval relative to the tick rate what

[granite sapphire]

it may also be that the trl's dilation debuff was fixed, because my ion cruisers all use dilation trls. idk what the deal with that was

[granite sapphire]

yep lol

i knew something was wrong

[sharp root]

lmaoo

[remote charm]

yeah

[next urchin]

HitInterval = 3 / (tickRate)
so 3 / 15 = 0.2 for half speed and 3 / 30 = 0.1 for full speed
God damn, the half-speed changes are confusing as fuck

[granite sapphire]

haha

[next urchin]

But then the damage was also doubled, but the damage is multiplied by the hit interval

[granite sapphire]

thats... about what i thought happened

[next urchin]

So the hit interval was halved and the damage doubled... 💀

[sharp root]

I knew something was up when my layer of OC SS literally melted in 5 seconds

[granite sapphire]

it was fun while it lasted but its a bit too op and cheesy even for my tastes

[next urchin]

Yeah I mean something was wrong, but I was sure Tapuck had said the beams just got damage reduced, not hit intervals

[tepid garden]

Uh oh, did I mess up?

[remote charm]

maybe but it was funny

[granite sapphire]

quadruple oc ion dps

[remote charm]

i looked at shields and they looked away

[sharp root]

time to speedrun making an ion avoider so I can claim avoiders are OP before it gets patched

:>

[eternal ibex]

I'm not sure if this is intentional, but when a ship's interior is dark, the doors aren't darkened, somewhat immersion-breaking

[vague gulch]

nuke launch still half speed?

[eternal ibex]

known issue

[next urchin]

absolutely unplayable. No idea if they can be darkened (or should, for visibility's sake?)
@sleek flax

[eternal ibex]

at least a couple parts also seem bugged in this way

[bitter steppe]

could it be that the damage got doubled but so did the tick rate?

oh nvm, as I'm catching up it seems like you already got that

[next urchin]

It is, but Tapuck did think it was just the damage changed. Base ions got the right numbers because they're relative to HitInterval already lmao

[bitter steppe]

How is everyone liking the TCM change to carry two missiles? The sprites could maybe even be made a bit wider to show off that awesome "fill" animation

[plucky fossil]

they are still too similar to he

imo

i'd like a really fast launch and it curves widely

like old old emp kinda

maybe w/ homing projectile physics instead of missile

[bitter steppe]

they have different flight profiles where this is essentially what they do. Faster launch velocity so they can be recessed pretty far into your ship and slightly worse tracking

[plucky fossil]

it plays practically the same

[lusty zealot]

you should have seen the first iteration of OCions

jesus christ they were ridonkulous

[granite sapphire]

i think theyre still a bit strong. i would be in favor of a rework that worsens their heat dissapation more but makes them a more competent weapon in their own right because currently their damage is very weak.

[lusty zealot]

they do also apply the heat debuff alongside heat-based damage

i haven't tested them enough to know whether they're balanced as dissipation

[bitter steppe]

i think you may be on to something with the idea of them doing slightly more damage in addition to the 7500 heat they apply

but in setups that really use them offensively rather than merely active venting, similar to ships that have TRL vs ships with a TRL main weapon, they feel like they do plenty of damage through the heat they apply

Even just 6 launchers at 7500 heat each is 45,000 heat if they all hit the same area

[eternal ibex]

TRL seems to incorrectly display both the power off and insufficient crew warnings

Also, an exhaustive "Darkening" evaluation

These correctly darken:
TRL (turret)
Chaingun + mag
All Thrusters
Engine Room
All Hyperdrives
All Crew Quarters
All Reactors (?)
All Storages
Manip Beam
Tractor Beam

Do not darken:
PD
Small/Large Blaster
Disruptor
Ion Emitter
Amp/Dilator Pumps
All Cannons
Launcher
All Railgun Pieces
Flak
Small/Large Shields
FE
All Control Rooms
Capacitor
All Factories (Both Ammo/Civilian)
Sensor
Hyperdrive Beacon

I'm not sure that all of the ones I've marked should darken but I figured I'd make a note of them

[floral saffron]

when do ships even darken

[languid basin]

When they don't have enough command points iirc

[sleek flax]

Currently, when ships lack enough control points, some systems (like guns) can still function and fire. Also, when a ship is classified as junk, only some manned parts will remain lit but not functional.

[sharp root]

to show you the power of (bugged) OC ions
I saw this ship in half! in literally 10 seconds!

[languid basin]

ok but tbf you have like 60 morbillion ions

[sharp root]

OC ions are bugged rn and have 4x the DPS they should

its hilariously broken

[floral saffron]

4x is crazy lmao

[eternal ibex]

The double notif appears to be exclusive to the TRL though which is strange

No other crewable part does it in my testing

[languid basin]

and i thought my OC Ionstar was going to be my ticket to success 😔

i didnt know it was 4x as strong as it was supposed to i thought it could just melt through 6 layers of armor in a few moments 😭

[next urchin]

2x what they should I think. I doubled the damage when their hit rate had already doubled

[next urchin]

That's just the power indicator for the TRL having the incorrect "HidesIndicators" value

[languid basin]

I still find it absolutely crazy how OC DC's muzzle velocity is almost as high as base railgun.

[quasi meteor]

can attest to this, here's a gif

I was wondering if I was going crazy and glad to see someone else noticed it

the animation is completely out of sync with the actual reload and firing

[next urchin]

The animation keeps being reset by the weapon trying to fire again, but it's still completing the laser fire trigger's delay

So it looks disjointed because when the weapon triggers, the animation progress is overridden, but the bullet emission progress is not overridden

I think they may have needed a nerf anyway, so maybe they should be slowed down to the max fire rate with the current animation

[quasi meteor]

completely unrelated note, I made a ship and set it ablaze with some heat cannisters and wanted to see what crew would do to solve it

answer: they are not solving it

a minority of crew were brave enough to go out and fight the flame on the frontline

while the rest are wondering what's for lunch

I can see that the advent of heat based weapons is going to be a big problem for the current iteration of crew whose fire safety training is... rushed

[granite sapphire]

2x

technically

[granite sapphire]

have you assigned the crew to the fire extinguishers?

[quasi meteor]

no

free for all

even after assigning fire extinguishers they still won't move their asses

although this is no longer much to do with meltdown specifically

I think fire response is an important part of responding to said meltdowns :)

[rough dock]

Something like this seems to work alright, but most of the launchers are still too far away from factories.

crew takes a relatively long time to mobilize as well if they are not already working.

builds that use ammo collection points get bigger and use more crew, though.

Also, running nothing but two factories off of one reactor feels bad.

[light stratus]

don't use the massive bunks

bad for crew response time

[rough dock]

The precise crew assignment of smaller bunks is nice, but i don't feel like this build really benefits from it and the big bunks makes it all more compact.

[light stratus]

no, its crew response time

think it this way

with 2x2 or 1x2, you have max 2.8/2 tiles for crew to move through until they leave the room

with the largest bunks you have max 4.5 tiles for crew to move through

that is horrible for response time

[rough dock]

Yeah. the large bunks are the way to go.

[light stratus]

no, quarters are

useb arracks for crew that don't need to move, which are operators

[rough dock]

if I stick quarters in there, they are going to be even further away. Besides, once they are working, they don't return to bunks.

[light stratus]

not necessarily

here is the "perfect" TCM missile launcher module, based off the normal missile launcher module found on monolith ships

pretty much 100% uptime

its slower than the original due to moving two launchers up

[rough dock]

That looks awful.

[light stratus]

its perfect

[lusty zealot]

i doubt non-OC factories are optimal

[light stratus]

true

I have room to OC them though

[rough dock]

You are running 2 launchers off of 1 factory. How is that even desireable, much less perfect?

[light stratus]

dude, 2 launchers off one factory works fine for normal missiles

[lusty zealot]

but then that would be inefficient as you're using an extra factory, and require layout changes

[rough dock]

An overclocked factory can support 5 launchers in current game state.

[lusty zealot]

but is less efficient than a single OC factory

[rough dock]

Why would I run two launchers off of a factory that can support 5 and then call it perfect?

[light stratus]

this is just bad for crew

so icant just take one of the inbuilt modules

[next urchin]

Huh, I'm not sure why that is. Are they slowly being assigned to the fire or is it seemingly capped at a certain number of crew responding to the fire?

Once again: the crew job system

[dark lily]

I'm not really paying attention, but I'll say that to support 5 launchers takes more crew and logistics just to deliver the missiles. If you have less launchers, even if it can support more missiles, it will be more efficient in the crew and logistics departments

To call it perfect is inherently a flawed statement though, as every arrangement will obviously have tradeoffs

[rough dock]

I mean, if the goal was to run two launchers of of a single factory, I could do that with almost any configuration. It would not even be worth worrying about

[light stratus]

well, i definitely know the TCM module I had has 100% uptime

[rough dock]

Yeah, you would have to be doing something pretty wrong to not get 100% uptime on a 2 to one 1 launcher factory ratio.

[light stratus]

again, its crew response time

[lusty zealot]

well, not necessarily

[light stratus]

the limit for missiles is usually crew

[quasi meteor]

there seemed to be a limited number of crew that were ever willing to respond to the fire at a time

even when I added more crew and more extinguishers, they stayed in bed sleeping well

[light stratus]

TCM factory shows S FE even though its now S Cu

[lusty zealot]

yeah it still uses the same sprites as the HE factory

[light stratus]

maybe a module like this works

factory is OC

[rough dock]

The walk from factory to launcher is getting pretty long there, and I would like to squeeze in 1 more launcher.

[light stratus]

asym is a bad idea and while factory to launcher is only half of the equation

crew gets pulled to a job when said job is needed

so being close to the factory is also important

[lusty zealot]

why is asym a bad idea?

[next urchin]

Interesting. I wonder if it's a ratio of fire per crew or some other limitation on assigning it there. Perhaps there are just too many jobs for the game to process and assign all the crew to

[light stratus]

hard to make logistics for imo

i do it in my DC modules but thats so I can stack them side by side

[lusty zealot]

heavily depends on the module

[light stratus]

for tcm single factory I'm not gonna try

[quasi meteor]

that would be my guess too. I heard before that there's a limited number of assignments that crew can receive per second PER SHIP. something in the ballpark of a few hundred

[light stratus]

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/9949010819337367063/D89CC45FF018E28176E6221D97B07969037EF401/

I'd say thats pretty good

7 second reload for 1 missile

[rough dock]

those launcher launch 1 missile every 4 seconds.

[dark lily]

It may be good to move the missile optimization discussion to a more applicable place like #general or #ships

[rough dock]

The launchers are too far. The side launchers are a 5 tile walk. 3 tiles is already pushing it. It seems to orient 5 launchers in the same direction and feed them off of 1 factory, you need ammo distribution points.

I thought this was the place to discuss meltdown specific stuff like thermal missiles?

[cerulean hound]

do parts have heat passthough now? previously I was told (and saw) that parts don't pass heat though themselves to other parts / radiators in the system

[remote charm]

Heat parts do

[lusty zealot]

TCM launchers, TRLs, Thermal Batteries, Radiators, Pipes

[narrow owl]

Perfect ? These empty spaces hurt me could be used to have crew or storage closer

[light stratus]

those empty spaces used to be where missiles where, but obviously they cant be placed there since TCMs need to be piped up

[light stratus]

I'm not using all the crew, and that depends on heat production

[light stratus]

we can discuss tcm modules here though no?

[regal sand]

The problem is that you are not talking about TCM themselves, but about layout

[light stratus]

the layout is inherent to using them

[dark lily]

I dunno just thought that this thread might be best to try and consolidate feedback into. But it's whatever

[light stratus]

they aren't like other missiles

[regal sand]

The layout discution is the same as for other missiles.

[light stratus]

nope, you have to pipe them

[regal sand]

🤦

It's the same kind of discution. Right now you are not discusing of pipes, but whenever it is better to have a layout that make full use of factories or one that has optimal response time

which is a discution you find with other missiles

[light stratus]

and that layout discussion is because I gotta pipe up TCMs

if I didn't have too, I'd just use the inbuilt layout

[regal sand]

Changing subject, just for fun (and a bit of testing), I made a mini-rail ship with a thermal lance (6 dillation & 2 amplification pumps), and compared the damage of one volley of 5 mini-rails with or without the lance debuf. The difference is as clear as day and night

[sharp root]

yeah TRL pairs so well with penetration-based weapons

both against armor and shields

[regal sand]

Clearly, the TRL is better used as a support weapon rather than a main one

which is how it was intended, I think

[light stratus]

definitely how I see it

I got TRL with 8 dilation pumps, but it isn't listing the heat generation?

[next urchin]

The TRL doesn't contribute to that yet

[light stratus]

😔 gotta manually calculate my heat

[regal sand]

500 + 200 per pumps

since it generate 600 and evacuate 100

[light stratus]

due to doubled it generates 600

but still says dissipations 100

opp, celeste typo

[regal sand]

I keep tapping the wrong button orz

corrected

[light stratus]

aight

so 2900 from 12 modules

[regal sand]

from a TRL +12 pumps, yes

[light stratus]

that feels weird

feels like it should take more radiators for TRL

[regal sand]

that's a lot already though ^^;

[light stratus]

thats 4 radiators tho

1.1k per radiator

[regal sand]

oh, yeah, had the old 550/s in mind

[light stratus]

at 8x speed conveyors move so fast they stop moving

visually

[languid basin]

How big of a debuff does TRL heat give?

Is there a way to see?

[light stratus]

do you mean the percentage debuff size, or the aoe size?

both are listed in stats

[languid basin]

Wait does hot armor have less health/resistance/whatever or does the debuff only apply to shields?

I don't see anything about how much heat affects armor strength

[light stratus]

it does, just not listed

[next urchin]

Yeah TRL stats are a bit hit or miss atm because it's so complicated and has changed so many times

[light stratus]

so what are the current stats for heat's affect on armour?

[next urchin]

You'd have to check the heat.rules file

(under DamageResistances or something)

[light stratus]

Cosmoteer\Data\statuses\heat

is where the rules file is found

ahh yup and damage resistances is inside the rules file

Type = StatusExponent
StatusType = cosmoteer.heat
ValueType = Raw
ModificationMode = Multiply
Exponent = 0.75
This means 25% less health?

Type = ScaledStatusExponent
StatusType = cosmoteer.heat
ValueType = Raw
ModificationMode = Divide
BaseStatusValue = 1
Exponent = 0.5
Scale = 1/200
This is under penetration resistance modifier so I'm assuming it's 50% less on a scale from 1 to 200 or smth?

[next urchin]

BaseValue * heat^0.75
For resistances, -100% would be double damage (ie. -x% damage resistance = +x% damage)

[next urchin]

BaseValue / (1 + (heat/200)^0.5)
IIRC

[upbeat sequoia]

I dont understand OC'ed Heavy lasers. Is 2000 damage spread over a 2 m radius, or 2000 for each tile? Is a tile 0.5m?

[light stratus]

every tile within that 2m radius of the projectile gets hit with 1000 damage

OC HL fires two shots in a salvo

hence 2000 damage

[upbeat sequoia]

Ok, i get it thanks

[light stratus]

also every tile is 1x1 metres

[coarse plaza]

Playing around for the first time with this preview and i'm suprised by how good the overclocked flak seems

Especially in combination with the new overclocked ammo factory

[wispy bone]

Yeah the overclocked flak is really, really good from my experiences with it

[tame comet]

oc flak is only good if you setup a wall with it or the ai barely moves

[hollow gull]

what happened in the latest update?

I gather that some things are not working as intended

[light stratus]

speed got doubled

when previously it got halved

so some things aren't working correctly

[regal sand]

The problem of Oc Flack is that the clouds of shrapnel are static and only deal damage to projectiles, meaning that once they are spawned they don't move and are not an obstacle to your opponent, so if, for instance, your opponent is a rammer and is pushing you around, you'll both leave the clouds of shrapnel behind. However, it is incredibly strong if the battlefield isn't moving, as you can basically put a wall of shrapnel in front of you.
Also, as you said, ammo factory got a huge buff with Oc.

[light stratus]

so, mass TBs then

[regal sand]

Avoiders and kites could still move the fight to avoid the clouds blocking their assaults, though

[light stratus]

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/17358726619072264516/17E19D37C2532DF52F7D5C9528E36410E343688F/

Nukes not firing properly

This is an inbuilt so I assume it's not meant to do that

[vocal trout]

65% health equivalent in a second of exposure with the base trl heating is insane (if its still 90/s)

[near flax]

known issue, being fixed

[light stratus]

its 80/s

explains why my OC CGs absolutely MINCE enemies

its 112/s on my TRL

[hard orbit]

It is annoying with over clocked boost thrusters that if some of the boost thrusters loose power they disable boost and then there is no good way to reenable boost on them without needing to toggle all boost thrusters off and then on again.

Either there should be a way to boost any boost thrusters that aren't on boost mode without having to disable boost on those that are already on boost mode or over clocked boost thrusters should automatically reboost once they have power.

[light stratus]

Yeah you gotta pause and do it manually which is very annoying

[sharp root]

or just straight up impossible to do in PvP unless you have ungodly APM

[plucky fossil]

you can set a seperate hotkey for only boost on (i have it set to b)

one for toggle and one for on only

off only is easy because you can just toggle tiwce

[vocal trout]

dont forget that theres extra heat in the pool so the center parts get a huge amount of heat (iirc?)

[light stratus]

Center parts are heated with penetration into the hull, so that is less useful

[vocal trout]

actually it prefers going forward unless theres a space gap

[light stratus]

I meant that heat Lance has "Penetration" in that it applies deeper into the hull than the surface

So extra heat in the middle is less useful

Since other weapons hit the surface