Meltdown Update Preview

[rough shuttle]

crewspeed????

from what i know you cant place doors that connect to these

or am i just missing something

[lusty gulch]

its missing

        CrewSpeed = [] // Suppress display.

[rough shuttle]

ohh okay

makes sense, so is the default 50%?

and about structures and crewspeed, i wish we didnt remove the ability to place doors that lead to structures. it was kinda cool having crew walk over structures (very slowly though)

because im pretty sure i remember that being a feature in the older versions, before the steam release

[lusty gulch]

yes basically default is .5 aka 50%

[rough shuttle]

Alright!

[summer cypress]

It was

[rough shuttle]

yeah thought so

btw, offtopic but should i join this server on my main acc? (i use this old one for servers im not active in but now that i am active, maybe i should join)

[pale python]

yea

[lusty gulch]

looks like winows 111 startup

[granite sapphire]

Solar Flare mk7 - Post-radiator nerf, swapped to a 3lr layout with 18 ions opposed to 20 on the old version. 3 less radiators from 32 to 29.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

untested in combat but no reason it shouldnt work

this is what i mean by cost nerfs cant discriminate, as long as oc remains mathematically worthwhile cost nerfs will do nothing but make it slightly more inconvenient and force rebuilds

[remote charm]

the drag equation is the cause of that pretty sure

[lusty gulch]

EY

EY

PEOPLE

WE GOT STRUCTURE PIPE.

[remote charm]

iirc i have a 24 booster mrt ship that is 90m/s and overclocking it gives me just 10m/s more

[granite sapphire]

@next urchin what are your thoughts on this? this is the old version, mk6, ive posted v7 above. everything that was ocd on v6 is still oc'd. all ive really lost is 2 oc ion and a bit more dmg output on top of that because of a less optimal core, but its not like the full oc is much less worthwhile just maths wise

[granite sapphire]

new ver

[plucky fossil]

the edge ions on top towards the middle hurt :(

[remote charm]

this thing if anyone wants to test for themselves

[regal plume]

Got a blueprint for that?

[lusty zealot]

the cost nerfs are trying to make it so that the cost of dealing with oc isn't always worth the benefit. numbers may still need tuning

the cost nerfs are trying to make it so that the cost of dealing with oc isn't always worth the benefit. numbers may still need tuning

[granite sapphire]

thought you'd appreciate the 3:1

[granite sapphire]

@regal plume this is the version in the screenshot 88k overbudget

[plucky fossil]

the straightness looking very strange but it has to be there fore pipe

*for

[granite sapphire]

but cost nerfs dont discriminate, like i said. it will either still almost always be worth it just slightly more inconvenient or not worth it mathematically bar overclocked weapons which are slightly more situational but generally just stronger

[granite sapphire]

its a bit of a mess but its the only good way i could find for an 18 ion

or actually...

hm

i could move 2 ions to the bottom lr and do a direct 3:1 with no redirections...

[plucky fossil]

unless you massivelu increase pipe costs

[granite sapphire]

idk if the lr could handle it

[lusty gulch]

BIG ❤️ @next urchin & @sleek flax

[flat skiff]

why does it need structure?

[granite sapphire]

to provide... structure

[remote charm]

cant have unsecured pipelines flopping around in battle

[flat skiff]

uhuh ok

[narrow blade]

it would be so awesome to have those weird anti mine chain spinning things but instead its near molten heat pipes

[granite sapphire]

rip oc lr doesnt produce enough power as expected

[kind estuary]

That is definitely the radiator hitting the PD. looks like the flamethrower effect of radiators doesnt use the same line of sight check as the radiator efficiency.
the FX should be polished so it keeps inertia with the rest of the ship. also it might be a placeholder.

[pale python]

i might be hallucinating when i leftclick the ship library a little blip appears and vanishes

interesting, StatusResistances exist

that can be applied to parts

experimentation time

StatusResistances sound perfect for making some parts being able to "hold" more heat than normal

one second while i try to make a mod for asteroids to receive increased "heat capacity" with that

i wonder if StatusResistances just change the mediaeffects/hiteffects and etc of the status and keep the value of the status (desireable)
or instead cause things to give less status when applied (not too desireable?)

i'm tempted to think it supports more status

[remote charm]

make ships with asteroids in the middle to dump all the heat into

[pale python]

seems like applying heat status to parts with statusresistance causes the status to not apply based on how much status resistance

in similar way to DamageResistances

damn

not ideal for what i was thinking

[lusty gulch]

what were u thinking then?

[tranquil cape]

something like heat capacity would be nice

[pale python]

yeah like celeste mentioned here #1372023145753612349 message but havent implemented

[pale python]

some sort of modifier that essentially changes how much status counts for it's own effects

90% of this Status modifier would change the mediaeffects from [0, 1000] to [0, 10000], and basically most values of the status that can scale

in practice, parts with 90% of that would require 10x more status for the same effects as something without the modifier

tldr
fire resonance lance at asteroid 10 times longer to heat it up enough to start damaging it

in practice it's basically StatusResistances but instead of Dividing how much status gets applied from sources, it divides the value of the status (for its effects) at that particular part

Heat exchangers would pull the same amount of heat because it's still the same value of heat

[lusty gulch]

makes sense tho

[pale python]

could be called StatusMultipliers and multiply instead of divide, i think that helps avoid confusion too
cosmoteer.heat = 10% for 10x capacity

(i think divide is the wrong word anyway)

[remote charm]

thank you overclocked small cannon for informing me about overclocked small cannon

[delicate moss]

lol

[regal plume]

That DPS is absurd 😮
very hard to kill from the front to
(just tried it in creative mode, I can kill it with my Red Cat but it's quite tricky)

[hollow gull]

that looks familiar

[remote charm]

BATTLESHIP

[hollow gull]

hm

[remote charm]

i loved the design so much i had to make one for myself

unfortunately double mrt doesnt really help much

[hollow gull]

you should probably put credit in the designed by

or description

[hollow gull]

the acceleration is much better, maybe two stubbier engines would work

[remote charm]

pvp oriented ships tend to homogenize

i dont think that is necessary

[hollow gull]

fair enough

[bitter steppe]

TBF I originally based my design off of Quiximo's battleship prototype and then made my own changes as well.
I'm not as concerned with who created the archetype so much as who can push it further and make it better 👍

[hollow gull]

thanks for hopping in, I'm not familiar with the etiquette here

[bitter steppe]

No worries, they weren't trying to blatantly take credit or anything, but i've also shared the ship file and talked with them a bit
I'm not sure the double MRT setup is the way to go but it's worth building and testing different configurations to see what works best

I'd also maybe change the frront deck cannons that aren't in line with the others as they're likely to block shots from the deck cannons behind them

[remote charm]

i actually didnt check the ship file ingame until after i had built my ship xd

[hollow gull]

also, I think that the outer side walls are 1 thick deliberately, to help resist nuke alphastrikes

the thicker wall should be on line with the cannons on inside

[remote charm]

good point

[granite sapphire]

the dps isnt too crazy, it just has very solid heat management and defenses plus the trl with lots of dilators debuffs shields

[remote charm]

probably not gonna mess around with pvp for now though cause it just got me addicted to broadsiders

[granite sapphire]

its just a general layout. no need to credit unless youre claiming that you designed it

thats generally how it works in pvp

[hollow gull]

that's really cool

[granite sapphire]

youll see that many pvp ships end up following very similar design philosophies and layouts

[hollow gull]

I'll need to play more pvp

[granite sapphire]

hop in excelsior, we have a very active community that can teach you the basics and an lfg role that you can ping to queue into games

#links scroll on up

[regal plume]

sad to hear 😦

[bitter steppe]

There are so many other fun and viable archetypes that people are using and creating, BATTLESHIP is only one of many fun ships

[hollow gull]

okay I did it

the rules are a little different there

[granite sapphire]

as long as you manually built the ship, you can say you made it, even if it is a close copy

that rule is when you physically take someones ship file

sort of a ship of theseus argument

[hollow gull]

I think I get that

[granite sapphire]

its mostly to encourage people to build their own ships, even if copying, because you learn a lot even by just copying a ship

[sharp root]

when interacting with the community, that rule does feel a lot more lax than how its written in Excelsior

[remote charm]

only temporarily. 🙂 but im more a career guy anyways

[hollow gull]

I think that it will be quite funny to try pvp, I have 800 hours of solo play, but never pvp

well, once yesterday

[granite sapphire]

it for sure is

[sharp root]

everyone I've met has been pretty chill with copies of their ships being made that have very similar layouts

[granite sapphire]

people dont really care abt that rule

the most important thing is to just not take credit for stuff you didnt invent/create

infact i did break this rule once during a tournament lol

[mild sonnet]

Ive been a person who built and played cosmoteer without any exterior contact, so this stuff is new to me and terms like "rammers" which i dont understand. has like anyone made a list of what those ship types are and what they do? (yes this is a bit embarrasing to say since ive played this game for way to long)

[hollow gull]

it's okay you can just add the prefix 'legally distinct' and flip the wedges a bit

[granite sapphire]

there is a basic guide on the cosmoteer wiki iirc. you can also just ask in excelsior

[sharp root]

https://cosmoteer.wiki.gg/wiki/Guides_Hub/Ship_Archetypes handy wiki page!

although do note that this is pre-meltdown

[mild sonnet]

oh no way! that could help

[mild sonnet]

understandable

[sharp root]

post-meltdown the meta is unestablished and rapidly changing due still not stable due to balance changes

[hollow gull]

oh wow me too, I went out of my way not to look up meta so I could learn it on my own

[remote charm]

based

[sharp root]

its also not an exhaustive list

[mild sonnet]

mhm! its very fun to learn games, not search up how to play it. because usualy in like every game there is a way to find something out without looking it up.

[sharp root]

in fact I see that wiki page is missing like ~60% of the archetypes in pre-meltdown elimination

[hollow gull]

exactly

[mild sonnet]

yeah but its something!

[hollow gull]

you know that you can drive cannons through a large shield and shoot the generator directly?

[sharp root]

shield phasing my beloved

[hollow gull]

some ships 'ram' to get under the shields

[mild sonnet]

yeah. like subnautica (off topic) is a game i played without watching a single video. very fun to learn and explore! i know many did not complete that game without looking stuff up, i just had to read through the abandoned pdas for help!

[sharp root]

the usual counter for that is to run structure bar under the shield to stop the enemy ship clipping into your shields

[hollow gull]

that's really funny, I thought i was the only person that plays games like this

although I might check the wiki to see what a stat does, like charisma or luck on fallout

[sharp root]

funny thing relating to large cannons, up until very recently, they used to able to phase through armor if you got the cannon barrel to poke through it

it was funny but also really obnoxious to deal with

[hollow gull]

oh right, I saw that in patch notes

now the bullet spawns in the base of the gun, not the tip right?

[mild sonnet]

yeah thats fair

[sharp root]

I think it does a check to see if the barrel is clipping into something, and only then blocks the bullet

[hollow gull]

does OC large cannon start fires through 1x2 armour?

[sharp root]

OC large cannon can currently set fires through 3 layers of armor, regardless if its 1x1 or 2x1

its... something

the fire chance get nerfed with the new set of balance changes but previously it was not uncommon to see OC LC setting half of the enemy ship on fire with a good flank

[hollow gull]

i was sure i read a message from someone that said it was changes

changed* maybe i misunderstood

[sharp root]

that being said its only a fire chance nerf

its still able to do damage through 3 layers of armor :p

[hollow gull]

i thought the fire chance scales with penetration

[sharp root]

fire chance scales with damage dealt to a block

technically even like 1 HP of damage is capable of setting a fire (at really low chance but still)

[hollow gull]

what kind of really low

like 1/50 or 1/5000

brb

[granite sapphire]

archetypes should hold true for the most part. its not like the concepts theyre created for wont hold true

[sharp root]

so rare itll probably never happen with a frequency that matters for dozens of games, but it technically can happen

[granite sapphire]

we may get new ones though

[sharp root]

this

[crimson osprey]

While the spaced side walls do help with resisting nukes and preventing sustained damage from causing breaches, if you look closely, you'll see rear-facing vents venting all the way down the channels in the armor. This helps the front half the ship vent heat without exposing the vents to enemy fire (and looks cool when venting)

[rough dock]

How is structure and what looks like armor the same weight?

[pale python]

another dev graphic

amplification pump

both lance pumps have 2000hp instead of what's expected of 4000 and 3000hp, is that intentional

[hollow gull]

I noticed that awesome feature, in the reworked one that was posted, the outer walls were made 2 thick, and I saw suggesting that if he wants to thicken the walls, it should be the inner walls instead of outer

[mild sonnet]

wait im so confused

whats the point of a heatpipe structure

like it doesnt seem to allow bullets and stuff to pass through

and they catch fire, the normal heatpiping doesnt seem to do so

[quasi meteor]

LMAO

bros my heat pipe got too much heat in the pipe

[mild sonnet]

LOL

but i find like zero point except that it could maybe look better on some ships?

[pale python]

one of the ways to split a dilator

[lusty zealot]

yeah aesthetics

[mild sonnet]

damn. would be nice if like it didnt block radiators as much or letting bullets past

[twilit matrix]

The problem with it having full structure properties, I suspect, is that you could use it to create difficult-to-sever pipelines internally.

[delicate moss]

Yoo, they did the press ctrl to show overclock thing :D awesome

[hollow gull]

it might be difficult for some engine reason, as real structure is hard to target

[mild sonnet]

yeah i suppose.

[plucky fossil]

yeah it's basically a super optimzied fully overclocked vwrsion of it

[plucky fossil]

if you use copy paste then you credit, if u accidentally make the same thing u don't

[analog turret]

mindustry peak

[cerulean hound]

i really love that fire is no joke now

[next urchin]

The nozzle or extenders? They're separately overclockable

That shouldn't be the case. Any error / anything in the log file?

[next urchin]

The ship lost strength. This is the intention. OC parts are broadly very strong and should be. Now you have less parts as a consequence.

[next urchin]

It shouldn't hit your own ship, though

[granite sapphire]

just mentioning how it hasnt rly forced me to be more selective with what parts i overclock; we will see if this pure oc style is actually weaker, i am playing some battles rn to test

[next urchin]

I also play games like this. Discovery is a big part of what I enjoy about games

[next urchin]

It does. 3% * (currentPen/StartingPen). Going through 2 tiles of armour should just over halve the chance, I think

[next urchin]

Hmmm no

[next urchin]

Whoops

[next urchin]

Yes

[next urchin]

Giving it a mechanical benefit would make it no longer an aesthetic option, and would undermine the intended design restrictions of pipes

[vocal trout]

Made tool-tips scrollable when exceeding their allowed height
we all say in unison thank you devs

only feature that matters to me

[hollow gull]

I have a bit of a silly question to throw out there

why was it decided that shrapnel should have 25m penetration?

given that a solid cannon round has 7m, I found it very surprising that the shrapnel is the sort of armour piercing version

I mean a base railgun round has only 15m of penetration

before the meltdown update, all of the AP values were very conservative, only able to go through a plate or two at a time

this seems like a very big change of mindset for the weaponry in game

[vocal trout]

its a HEAT gun

clearly this means that the shrapnel is hypersonic copper pellets (see high-explosive anti-tank rounds)

[hollow gull]

doesn't heat generally go in more of a straight line from the copper jet

I'm very wordy with my posts and too roundabout, let me be more concise

why has there been such a massive increase in penetration values?

[next urchin]

It was a somewhat arbitrary number. Wanted something very high pen, very low damage, very high quantity. It's intended to be effective against softer targets

[next urchin]

The other lower penetration projectiles also have much higher damage

Individual shrapnel projectiles just sorta tickle

[hollow gull]

thank you for the answer, I'll take some time to look into this more

[next urchin]

(Note that I'm making no claims that 25m is a necessarily balanced value)

[hollow gull]

public test unfinished product 😤 where is the testing smh my head

[vocal trout]

this is the testing

[cerulean hound]

"No I WaNT BaLaNCE NoW"

[vocal trout]

it is a preview after all

[hollow gull]

just in case, I was joking there

[pale python]

mod your own balance values

✅

[hollow gull]

I'm actually really excited to see the experiments with higher penetration values overall in game

[next urchin]

See: OC railguns

My beloved

[hollow gull]

I tried those! They're really fun

I really appreciate how the roles change for weapons

it's like doubling all of the weaponry in game

[pale python]

railgun? i barely knew her

[hollow gull]

ship named Railer:

I feel like prior to this update Armour Penetration (AP) was in a strange but safe place

a singular 2x1 armour was enough to almost entirely stop anything short of a railgun, so the mechanic felt to me mostly as a way to make kinetic weapons do internal damage on soft stuff

designs definitely need more care put into spacing important stuff out now

-which is a good thing. I like having a reason to put more thought into ships

[tame comet]

my favorite part of game design is making preexisting content better or expanding off of it with new systems so you just get more new shit without acutal new shit and its absolute euphoria for game design

[hollow gull]

absolutely

that small thruster change recently was phenomenal

took a useless part and made it fill the intended role

[next urchin]

Small thruster OC, my other beloved

Maneuvering thrusters 🥰

[hollow gull]

making them regenerate slowly, and then the OC? small thrusters are awesome now

and the OC point defence regenerating too

[pale python]

i lover overclocking

[hollow gull]

pro tip: you can overclock your armour if you just don't turn off radiators

actually jokes aside, putting a heat exchanger is like overclocking armour, now that I think about it

[frigid flax]

this ui change is awesome

and its a toggle menu?!?!??!

❤️

[hollow gull]

this was a really cool change

[frigid flax]

it aint done yet tho

[next urchin]

I forgor

[frigid flax]

same thing kinda

wow

i love this

[pale python]

yea

[languid basin]

Just to be sure, OCTBs do not affect projectiles, right?

[lusty zealot]

they do

[languid basin]

what

do they affect enemy ones

[twilit matrix]

Yes.

[frigid flax]

oc ion core

[grim gyro]

6 second elim win still theoretically possible yay

[plucky fossil]

0 sec win possible (disconnect)

[prisma dock]

Will we see a fix to PD effectiveness? Should be as simple as upping their dps to the new 1x game speed (projectiles are now faster, but PD apparently stayed at the same dps as previously).
Thx for your work.

why would the max price of a ship even matter for career?

would be kinda confusing, because without doors there's nothing indicating that you can't walk along the pipe instead of just across.

The presence of a crew conveyor can make or break very tight logistics. You still want to use crossings as little as possible.

I love that it now makes it possible to connect heat piping on an ion core ship with 2 otherwise separate ship sections.

It was not interesting.

[crimson osprey]

It'll get balanced, but there's a lot of related stuff that may have to happen first

[prisma dock]

Oh pleeeeease, keep it so we can fire Ion beams through structure heat pipes. I really hated that about heat management with ion ships. It's such an unnecessary and annoying restriction having to give each ship section it's own cut off heat venting. And it means you can't use heat venting on the right side of the ship, when the left side is overburdened. This restriction exists only for ion and rail ships. Why?

What other levers do the devs have for balancing the cost effectiveness of overclocking? I can't rly think of any and it's the cost effectiveness that determines, if you want to use something everytime or just some of the time.

[hard orbit]

One possible balancing of over clocking would be to make it designed for short battle but not be sustainable.

That would involve keeping thermal storage at a moderate price but make heat dissipation even more expensive if necessary.

[prisma dock]

Is it the case that you want to achieve a balance so that you could always either get for example 2 thrusters or a single overclocked one for roughly the same cost?

[next urchin]

Wha-

[lusty zealot]

heat generation and overclock effectiveness are other options, though the council and devs didn't really want to do either of those approaches because:

heat generation: increasing generation would have similar effect to nerfing dissipation, but would also unduly nerf 'emergency overclocking' of parts not connected to thermal systems, which isn't ideal

reducing effectiveness: overclocks are meant to be these really cool and strong new things, so nerfing them down towards normal part effectiveness wouldn't be ideal for the vibes. better to have them be really cool and strong things that need a lot of work to deal with

[next urchin]

That was an issue I ran into while trying it last night, yeah. We don't currently support directional walls

[lusty zealot]

could potentially do a hacky solution where crew speed is reduced to 0% sideways

[next urchin]

Yeah but fire will pass along the pipes

There are probably other consequences of it not technically having walls

[lusty zealot]

oh true

[prisma dock]

Maybe they need to increase the 125% on delivered energy to make it worthwhile?

[lusty zealot]

or reduce the heat increase

[prisma dock]

that is what I originally suggested you do to the ship and you flamed me for it. xD

[regal plume]

That separation allows some kills via cutting side pipes
It's how I killed that v6 ship pasted in chat a while sgo

[granite sapphire]

this only mathematically worked because i went down to 18 ions

as i clearly said

the reactor redlines too

so no, it wouldnt have worked when you suggested it, not without dropping 2 ions for no reason and having more budget than i can do anything with left over

[next urchin]

It would be more annoying if you could basically never sever pipes because they're structure. It's also a very intentional limitation. Just run the pipes around the back of the core or redesign the core to allow that

[granite sapphire]

its really not much a restriction, just run the pipes behind and around

[prisma dock]

I think I'd like that. Push Thermal Batteries bac kdown to 2k, keep Radiators at 10k?

[lusty zealot]

i do think the thermal battery nerf was a bit harsh or not needed

wouldn't mind overclocking incentivising either quick engagements or disengaging

[prisma dock]

...maybe we should be able to walk along pipes then. ^^

[prisma dock]

increasing the effect of overclocking ERs might make it more interesting instead of just reducing the heat tax.

[prisma dock]

If you're already down to cutting the ship in two, you've probably already won anyway, no? I don't see how having structure-pipes let or not let shots through would change that, since structure does easily rip, if you fire across it for a few seconds.

[regal plume]

This one @prisma dock

Nothing to do with cutting in two

[prisma dock]

But I regularly sever structure just fine in combat. Sure, most shots fly over it most of the time, but exposed structure will still be destroyed very quickly, if shots travel over it.

[regal plume]

Just severing pipes

Severing structure all is harder

[prisma dock]

Not all Ion ships have a "back". Also some ion ships have "islands" of ship sections in the middle of the ship. The Meltdown update invalidated those.

[regal plume]

The need to protect the pipe connections and the ability to target them add a lot of depth to the game

[prisma dock]

Can't connect ship layouts like these. Sucks.

[prisma dock]

I mean it barely takes more than a second to sever exposed structure.

why is this an issue?

You could also make it so that structure-pipes have a slightly lower "let through" value than regular structure while still letting all friendly shots through.

I think it's regulated by penetration values currently, right? Just have those be different for structure-pipes than for normal structure.

[regal plume]

I'm just going to point back at the ship I linked to and say that the lack of pipes across centre between the shields is the reason it was beatable
And it was an interesting puzzle trying to figure out a kill

[prisma dock]

That ship already had connected pipes in the back. I don't see how being able to have (, in this case unnecessary,) structure-pipes in front of the ion beam would've changed anything.

And should ships like the two I posted above really be made unviable just for a niche case like the one you're refering to?

[regal plume]

Then you need to think harder
Maybe stare at it a bit

Pipe severing as a strategy is pretty important

Had it be relevant several times

[prisma dock]

The pipes are connected. What are you talking about??

[prisma dock]

And as I've pointed out you can still easily sever exposed structure as is.

This is not really a problem

How do you think people get rid of ship antlers on a rammer?

[prisma dock]

Heatwise these are the same

if not pls point out why not

[next urchin]

You can easily sever exposed structure. Try using a railgun ship to split a large block of structure apart

Analogous: why can't you just put corridor in front of the beams and fire over it?

The limitation is intentional. Same as all other part limitations

[regal plume]

Need to cut two heat pipes in the latter case

Though annoyingly, I think you might be right that it's niche

[prisma dock]

Is it correct that railguns struggle to sever structure, because the thing that makes structure hard to hit is their penetration resistance value? If so, you could just make that value different for structure-pipes than for regular structure. That way friendly shots like missiles or ions would still travel through structure-pipes, but enemy shots would more easily hit it. No?

[prisma dock]

Sure. I find this particular limitation more annoying than interesting.

[knotty tangle]

@pale python I understand correctly that when a part of the pipe is destroyed, a chain reaction starts that destroys the rest of the pipes? Maybe then add a special part of the pipe with a valve, which would interrupt this effect and make it impossible to install a second valve within a radius of 3 cells

[frigid flax]

ill repaint it tmrw

[languid basin]

Is it just me or does PD/Flak feel completely ineffective against OC DC?

[narrow blade]

isnt the point to go fast, and deal a lot of damage

for overclocekd deck canonn

[prisma dock]

Siiick. One tiny suggestion: connect the back end of the radiator rows to the main circuit also. That way it's a closed loop and you don't immediately lose a bunch of radiators, if only a single one is destroyed.

[prisma dock]

Yes. The new game speed makes projectiles fly twice as fast while they didn't update PD dps to match that. They're aware of it though. I'm wondering if they might have also forgotten to update the PD targeting to account for the faster speed. Because it feels like more shots are also missing now.

[light stratus]

what yaddah said, but also DC projectiles have really really high health

its on purpose that they are hard to shoot down

[prisma dock]

Overclocked thrusters do not automatically de-clock, if you turn off overclocking for the attached ER. I think they should. In case you want to emergency turn off overclocking with a single key-group.

(say your piping or radiation gets hit and you quickly need to lower heat)

[vague aurora]

STRUCTURE WALKING!!!

#backtoclassic

[light stratus]

oh huh, thats how you avoid the ER extra heat

[rough shuttle]

WE NEED IT BACK

[vague aurora]

Yes.

I suggested structure with door should have a texture where it shows a suit hanging, and the crew equip EVA suits when on structure.

And crew speed should be 30% like in classic.

[sharp root]

railguns struggle because they have low fire rate
a projectile can only hit the first structure piece it comes across, and then it ignores all other structure blocks it passes over

this means low fire rate weapons have a really really bad time breaking large chunks of structure apart, as they can only break one block at a time, vs something like a chaingun with high firerate absolutely evaporates structure

[narrow blade]

boarding crew bout to be so mad fr (they pry open the door just to get flung out of the ship)

[mild sonnet]

Oh hey look, my alt lol

[mild sonnet]

Mhm! Or like an airlock can attach to structures. Instead of making crew go outside. It puts on their suit and let's them walk over structures

Like being able to attack a door on either side, making the crew able to walk through. Like a real airlock

[prisma dock]

You would need a special type of airlock-block for it to make sense.

[prisma dock]

I see. Didn't know that. Means I should probably use more double and triple block structure struts, huh? In any case, I'm pretty sure I once heard that the mechanic that makes shots ignore structure is their high chance to let all shots through. If so, it could be made different for pipe-structure blocks than for regular structure blocks... If the devs ever changed their mind and started agreeing with me that this particular restriction (no heat piping should ever let friendly shots through) is an annoying and uninteresting restriction. Allowing the connecting of otherwise separate ship sections via structure-pipes would actually make things more interesting, because it would provide a weak spot for the enemy to shoot and force an entire ship section to de-clock.

[twilit matrix]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[leaden jolt]

are there any new ships in this beta

[twilit matrix]

Not yet, as far as I know.

It looks like they're trying to get the core mechanic balanced and hammered out before they build ships using it.

Now, I would be surprised if they weren't already working on some...

[vague aurora]

Yeah why not. I already have a suggestion for airlock doors to help manage the hyperbuffed fires, they could be mounted on structure.

[vague aurora]

---

I've heard HT is objectively worse than large when overclocked... If true, why so and is it planned to be fixed?

[narrow blade]

this seems deeply suspicious

[rotund tendon]

It was buffed (uses less energy, produces less heat) in the patch a day or 2 ago

[stuck roost]

That's not enough, two large thrusters produce 8000 KN on overclock for only 18k credits. Vanilla huges thrusters produce 4000 KN for 10k. overclock huges isn't better as it produces the same 8000 KN for 20k

Edit: Taken heat dissipation cost into account, using pipeless radiators as both thrusters type can share directly attached radiators

[crimson osprey]

That's a bit misleading. OC large thruster cost should factor in the cost of heat dissipation. If you're using a vent, that's another 5k added plus any additional piping or batteries your system is using. 4k large thruster + 5k (half a vent's dissipation) +3 pipes is 9.9k, putting the credit cost fairly similar to a huge thruster.

To be clear though, I'm not arguing that huge thrusters are better or worse, only that if you're going to compare the credit costs of an OC part to a vanilla part, it's worthwhile to factor in the cost of heat dissipation, be it vents or TCMs

[stuck roost]

I assumed taking into account heat dissipation in this case was worthless in my argument as large and huge have the same heat generation per KN of thrust, so the same added cost by extension (2 OC large thruster add up to 550heat/seconds for 8000 KN while 1 OC huge thrusters is exactly 550heat/seconds)

Though you have a point, thank you for correcting me

[vague aurora]

Small suggestion, what if pipes were 1.5 ton instead of 1 ton? I think it makes sense for this steel encased pipework to be heavier than a lofty structure frame that is corridor. Considering how omni-prevelant overclock mechanics are and how much they buff thrusters, I think it's only fair to slightly limit the ultralights that use them.

[narrow blade]

this sounds like extremely small of a change

[crimson osprey]

In the name of asymmetrical ships that desire any chance of being perfectly balanced, I oppose 😅

[narrow blade]

speaking of "perfectly balanced" is there a option for seeing the center of mass/thrust for a ship

[crimson osprey]

I've heard tell of a web page capable of that and rumor of a mod once or twice. Nothing buil-in though

[narrow blade]

raging rn ngl

[vague aurora]

Okay no good point.

I build assyms and I agree now that I think about it

[vague aurora]

Goofy meltdown career interceptor I cobbled off quicksilver

[narrow blade]

are oyu sure you have enough small thrusters

[lusty zealot]

the Excelsior server has a bot that can do that, though it's not updated to meltdown yet

[icy eagle]

how does that small thruster spam even work

[vague aurora]

Well it does work super well actually. The thing's very responsive.

[narrow owl]

7/10 it's cute

[worn hound]

20 days later

[prisma dock]

HTs used to be absurdly worse than LTs when overclocked. Now, after the buff to OC HTs, they are mildly worse than OC LTs. Previously, the heat and cost inefficiency of OC HTs meant that you would rarely ever use them, if you could instead use OC LTs. Now, I think it's debatable. OC HTs are very space efficient, but OC LTs are still slightly more heat efficient and offer much better manuverability.

[eternal ibex]

The other thing is that OC standards and larges are STILL bugged with their recovery time

[plucky fossil]

boost isnt' though

[eternal ibex]

-# did i say boost

The recovery time on standards/larges are still incorrectly set to like 2x their rampup time or something like that, it makes them both absolutely broken for maneuvering on top of the heat efficiency

[grim gyro]

Watching crew walk through a 128:1 ion beam was always pretty funny

[twilit matrix]

Okay - what if crew could walk through structure, but they'd be vulnerable to both your own and enemy fire?

That prevents bridging the jaws of an ion channel, while still allowing some more versatility.

I feel like posting that clip from Star Wars Episode I with the droids dying, but I think that would be a bit in bad taste...

[eternal ibex]

Has anyone else tried starting a new career run in the latest preview?

Every time I try to make one, I can play for about 20 minutes before the game just permanently freezes and requires a restart

[remote charm]

idk about that but every now and then my game would freeze for about 10s straight

[hard orbit]

There is definitely a memory leak so restarting cosmoteer periodically may be enough to avoid freezing.

[delicate moss]

Is it possible at all to revert to the previous preview version? Is that a thing?

I was going to do some planning for a tournament but it's using the old heat pricing because of the changes, but it would be painstaking and annoying to keep notes of how much thermal parts used to cost

[prisma dock]

It would be a fairly big change for the kinds of ships that care about being super fast and use OCing to achieve their speeds.

[plucky fossil]

surely there is some mistake? i saw crew put out a tiny fire almost instantly

is it supposed to be maximum?

[prisma dock]

I was wondering why OC LTs felt so super responsive.

[plucky fossil]

i am just noting

it looks very strange when used together w/ large

[prisma dock]

I sure hope it's a mistake. Cause that has sounded insane from the moment I read it. 7,5 seconds for every fire? Fire spreads faster than that...

[tranquil cape]

this is not extinguishing duration, this is foam duration
foam prevents fire from spreading to that tile

[quasi meteor]

but it says "crew will apply fire foam for minimum 7.5 seconds" so if applying fire foam and extinguishing are different things then the language could've been clearer

something like "fire foam now lasts at least 7.5 seconds regardless of fire size"

[twilit matrix]

Yeah, that would be a lot clearer. I also read it as "crew will spend 7.5 seconds extinguishing each tile", which is very bad.

[prisma dock]

oh wow. didnt know this mechanic even existed.

[near flax]

added this preview update

[rough dock]

We should have power armor stations so we can overclock our crew.

Each crew member with power armor generates heat, but is significantly better at carrying things.

[vague gulch]

Super saiyan

[tame comet]

ok this sounds kinda neat

[next urchin]

"Apply" is the technical verb for statuses. That's why it's written that way

Probs could've been clearer but also shush my patch notes are perfect

But also "Fire foam now lasts at least 7.5 seconds" would be technically incorrect, since the change is only for when crew specifically apply fire foam. Fire foam hypothetically applied by any other source would not have the minimum... If we're being pedantic.

"Fire Foam applied by crew will now last at least 7.5 seconds", perhaps

[next urchin]

Fire foam has existed since the first public preview

[vague aurora]

You've said this a dozen times maximus, we get it.

[vague aurora]

My meltdown career corrupted :c

It froze yesterday and had been frozen for like 4 hours before I had to kill it with task manager. Now it's refusing to load even the auto save.

It's been like that for 3 hours so I had to taskman purge it again.

[minor valve]

now now nick dont have a... meltdown over it 🥁

[vague aurora]

My game is having a meltdown not me, you silly

[languid basin]

Has anyone tested if an OC'd flak is better or worse against OC'd DCs compared to stock flak?

My own testing says it's about the same but it wasn't exactly empyrical.

Nope. If anything it's worse.

[grim gyro]

What a needlessly rude response

[tame comet]

i did some testing and yea its kinda ass

pretty much its worse unless you're fighting anything that moves in multiple directions. its good if:

you're fighting a deck gun defense platform
the target is moving with the clusters
you set up a giant fucking wall beforehand

otherwise, mind as well save on costs and just not

[stuck roost]

Must admit this is very pretty and flavorishing

cant wait to stamble and create burned remains

[plucky fossil]

oh i see

[plucky fossil]

is anyone moving? if someone is still then it's a lot better

[languid basin]

It just straight up did not intercept any shell.

[plucky fossil]

did the shells pass through the cloud

[languid basin]

Yep.

[plucky fossil]

interesting

[cerulean hound]

im not sure if this is planned for the full release but i think all of the thermal stuff should be locked from the start, even with costing money and resources it's still fairly strong and very dangerous / potentially confusing for people new to the game (although i think the pipes, radiator and heat exchanger should all unlock in one tech, with the battery and big gun being separate)

[plucky fossil]

eaxh overclock will be a blueprint

[narrow blade]

imo pipes and radiator should be one blueprint but heat exchanger isnt really super necessary to set up a basic heat system

[plucky fossil]

it is for defense

[narrow blade]

what do you mean.

[vague aurora]

Okay sorry, I agree that was rude.

[plucky fossil]

there is no way to remove offensive heat except with exchangers

[narrow blade]

my brother in christ where exactly is the offensive heat right when you start getting a thermal system

[plucky fossil]

when you mismanage or from an opponent or from radiator friendly fire

[narrow blade]

its just gonna be a blueprint on the side smh

[vague aurora]

Can I know why corridor and other stuff dark?

[narrow blade]

no command points iirc

[delicate moss]

I think that’s fine, less complexity is nice

One thing I really love about Cosmoteer is that almost all parts have a vast amount of different uses

That way you can get a lot of versatility from simple parts, which also makes it easy for new players to learn quickly

(I’ve been trying to get into starsector and good lord is the ship building a headache, and not the fun kind)

[narrow blade]

imo the heat exchanger is a bit too powerful for earlygame ships so if its like a 8k blueprint ontop of the radiator + heat pipe blueprint that would be better than heat exchanger, radiator and heat pipe blueprint

[delicate moss]

From my experience, the exchanger is great for some things and direct connection other

Like, railguns, deck cannons, shields, tractor beams - things that can generate a lot of heat instantly - pretty much need direct connection

But the other parts that heat up more gradually you could sneak exchangers in to deal with

[vague aurora]

Awww heat pipe is not transparent :(

Damnit how do I unheat my quad shields.

[narrow blade]

why would it be transparent...

thats would just be like shield armor against lasers

[prisma dock]

We can dream and scream. Eventually the devs may change their mind about this, but probably wont.

[narrow blade]

im talking about having heat exchangers need a standalone a blueprint im not talking about how practical they are

heat exchangers really arent needed for early game since designing a ship without heat exchangers for earlygame relaly isnt that hard

WHY THE FUCK IS THIS FLYING LIKE THAT

[prisma dock]

too heavy on one side, so the thrust is not centered.

[narrow blade]

its becasue it was trying to fly to the side of my like normal ai strategies

[prisma dock]

No, think about it. You have the most of your armor on the right side. So if the thrusters were to push only forward like normally, your ship would turn to the right because the right side is harder to push. And so the AI of the ship knows that it has to fire the bottom thruster pointing right and the top left thruster too, in order to not turn in place. And so in order to go forwards, you end up with this.

[narrow blade]

its a ai toothpick for fucks sake jesus

[prisma dock]

...you just built it wrong. Ain't got nothing to do with the AI.

[narrow blade]

my brother in christ

thats a builtin

in career

(also knwon as a PIRATE!!!!)

[prisma dock]

ok misunderstood that. In any case, it's built wrong.

Ok, I'm not in your game. So maybe I'm wrong. It just seems to me like of course it would have to fire the top left thruster to fly straight with this much armor on the right.

Anybody know how to get rid of the infinite loading bug? The save worked fine earlier today.

[vague aurora]

Eh, I just thought it'd be transparent because it has structure in its name.

[vague aurora]

Yeah exactly the same happened to me! #1370799036591898837 message

I had to summon task manager twice.

[prisma dock]

And that unfreezes it?

Or is the save just gone?

[vague aurora]

No, it just allows you to end your game's misery :(

It doesn't load.

[prisma dock]

😢

Wait, none of my saves load anymore. Not even the one I didnÄt touch today.

[vague aurora]

Soon after I made this and tried testing it out against enemies, the game just froze and I sat there for 4 hours, but nothing happened, so I had to kill the game. Then I tried loading the latest autosave, about 5 minutes before the crash/freeze happened, but nope.

I thought I was the only one. This is a very major issue.

Writing bug report right now.

[narrow blade]

alright so i had this really funny thing where my ship mysteriously dissapeared in a gaseous cloud

like it just fucking ceased to exist

it would be really fun if the scrap wasnt completely fucking impossible to see in a gaseous cloud

wtf

theres no scrap either i checked the path i went through

well uhh garbage not scrap smh ftl brainrot

[pale python]

is it supposed to show when underclocked

[prisma dock]

@next urchin Any idea what went wrong here? Projectiles remained completely unaffected.

[hollow gull]

that is one of the most evil ships, maybe ever

[vague aurora]

Quadrillion shrapnel preheated and delivered right at your doorstep.

[prisma dock]

It will probably never work. Spotty dmg. Sometimes shield penetration (notice the destroyed parts behind still up shields on the right), sometimes knocks out an OCed shield, but mostly mines move too fast to release their bomblets. No way to really make the shots slower...

And the impact lags the game hard, which probably kicks a few people out of the game. ^^

[hollow gull]

maybe the number of tractor beams is what causes issues?

each beam blast has to check every projectile or something?

[prisma dock]

I've already gone down to 1 per side. Can't go lower than that, because I need 2 in total to cancel out the force in the middle and result in a straight shot.

[hollow gull]

well, I think it's an incredibly cool idea regardless

[narrow blade]

guys can someone act horrified about learning this information

[delicate moss]

This funny thing is the result of me trying heat mechanics with a cost constraint for the first time

Small OC thrusters call to me like the green goblin mask

[hollow gull]

did you delete a door on the cockpit and then it ran out of power while flying

[narrow blade]

wouldnt it be like still visible

[tranquil cape]

oof
it would of allowed for interesting stuffs

[hollow gull]

yeah I think the only thing is to abandon it

[narrow blade]

i didnt abandon it

iirc the only way it would have exploded is with fire but wouldnt that end up with a bunch of scrap lying around

[hollow gull]

maybe it was the cosmoteer version of herobrine

[narrow blade]

which i would have seen since i spent like 5 minutes looking around said gaseous cloud

yeah

this is all herobrines fault

[delicate moss]

Has anyone else been having loading issues in the latest preview? Several things that usually don't take as long stall for a while for some reason

For example it takes a couple seconds to exit an arena game, where usually it takes like half a second

It sounds petty when I word it like that but like, everything just loads way slower. Idk if I'm the only one experiencing it

[vague aurora]

Yes.

I think the lag is noticeable.

In an ironic turn of events my game just froze.

And I was literally just browsing galaxy map, sitting in an empty sector.

[leaden jolt]

ive noticed a lot more crashes compared to previous betas

[upbeat sequoia]

Yep, im getting game freezes too, after the last update. I have to go to steam and click 'stop' and the reload

[prisma dock]

yep. I'm hoping my game won't crash anymore when I impact 144 mines while testing OC TBs once this is fixed.

[eager gyro]

Is that a mine shotgun?

[prisma dock]

No. This is a mine shotgun.

1.25 mil

[eager gyro]

Diabolical

[prisma dock]

More than that. Toxic.

[wispy stream]

does this also work with nukes ? :D
and yes i think this gravity thingy is a little bit op

[narrow blade]

i think u gotta time it much better with nukes

[granite sapphire]

just mentioning how oc ers are absolutely horrid with the new cooling cost nerfs

[narrow blade]

wydm by horrid

as in brutally and disgustingly op or completely unusable

[granite sapphire]

heat is such an expensive resource and they already generally werent particularly worthwhile as their only upside is power efficiency

[granite sapphire]

unusable

[granite sapphire]

power efficiency isnt even a relevant upside on almost all ships aside from edge case reactor power generation breakpoint issues/crew congestion. heat is so much more of an expensive and difficult resource to manage than power, this tradeoff just doesnt really work at all as a result

i would recommend maybe oc ers gaining a lot of extra power storage instead of power efficiency, or keep both upsides. this would mean oc ers would compliment oc thrust's crew draw issues due to their higher power consumption with the same storage

either that or simply cut the heat inefficiency to like 60%

[wicked lotus]

Wow these mine launcher systems are crazy, but like, any ship who sees this would never sit still for it. It's not actually game breaking outside of Campaign.

[narrow blade]

cant it just rotate towards you

[remote charm]

yeah it could

but im assuming getting mines to go that straight is really finicky

[narrow blade]

im assuming you have to be practically stationary or it just goes off to the side

[narrow blade]

can i get the ship.png for this

[hollow gull]

could they be launched into the circle on domination from spawn or something?

[narrow blade]

well it is a shotgun so you... cant just bombard areas you know have enemies

mine railgun would be awesome aswell

[hollow gull]

that said

you could use a macro to get consistent timings

and once the timings are consistent, maybe the distance and spread can be consistent

then it's just a matter of setup

[twilit matrix]

Wow, this would be awesome if we had a logic control system... a railgun would be a lot more feasible!

[narrow blade]

depressingly pathetic damage

what in thy fuck...

yea

practically perfect launch from this thing means a pretty thick entire layer of armor is coming off

not really practical but its fun

[next urchin]

The weird part is "after last update" 🤔
Will get fixed ASAP, though

[plucky fossil]

yeah if they had high power storage (and probably like triple power efficiency), might be interesting since overclock thrust eats a lot of power

if they just get storage it doesn't change much since it's still logistically not worth due to crew

[granite sapphire]

it would allow you to put them further away from lrs without having to rely on walkways/caps which is upside in of itself

crew is cheap

[prisma dock]

It's not really op. It's toxic, but not op. It doesn't do much damage and can only destroy 1-2 layers of armor per attack. And you get only 3 attacks, if you don't bring any storage.

[prisma dock]

With nukes you gotta hit release upon seeing the 6th circle (iirc) and with mines you gotta hit release upon seeing the 4th circle. That makes it probably extremely hard (if not impossible) to shoot mines on the run or while turning. With nukes it works much better, but you gotta pay for storage.

[prisma dock]

It kind of can, but you'd need a specific ship shape in order to rotate after releasing the mines, if they're not to crash into your own ship.

[prisma dock]

It's not that finicky to get them to fly like that. You just gotta release the mines the moment you see the 4th circle from the OC TBs. This firing sequence results in the pattern from the gif every time. But in a real battle you will have to aim super well and maybe even lead your target and you might have to turn slightly after releasing the mines without them crashing into your own ship... That's the finicky and probably unviable part.

[prisma dock]

Just hit the release button upon seeing the 4th circle and you get nearly perfect timing. That's not very hard.

[prisma dock]

All serious ships should be looking to deplete their reactors. The 125% on delivered energy is very valuable and in some cases even necessary (if you completely surround an ER in HTs). It's a fine bonus, it's just that a heat tax of 100% is too high. 75% or 50% would be better.

[prisma dock]

That is already achieved by the current 25% energy increase per battery delivered. Just some storage would be a worse buff than currently. And it would be unneeded, because OC Capacitors already have more than enough storage.

[plucky fossil]

storage would be better buff since <lt uses not a lot of power and >lt uses too much power to be worth being far

[quasi meteor]

my large cannon overclock has 0 damage

[unique orchid]

making a ship launcher with tractor beams in order to get insane speeds would be interesting

[near flax]

the cannon projectile does no damage, the shrapnel it spawns does a lot of damage

starting fires

[quasi meteor]

I was testing it against the howitzer and the cannon shots just couldn't get through the shield

the raw dps against shields is really low and is notably effective against OC large cannons

really brutal

but good to know the 0 damage is intentional

I imagine the shrapnel shreds interiors if it gets the chance

[near flax]

OC large cannons are very good against low armor areas, use emps and disruptors and theyll shread shield generators

[granite sapphire]

octb's base force increase feels crazy strong and almost unfair, at least from my few experiences today. how much does oc increase its base force?

even 4 tb was manipulating my 4 er ion cruiser very easily, i really had no way of properly resisting flips. ofc generally 4er cruiser thrust isnt a massive investment and should be susceptible to tb, but even proper counterplay strategies like staying at max range just wouldnt work as their pull force is too powerful

one of the advantages of cruisers were of course that they can work with effectively double the torque of a monothrust ship of the same er count

but i do not feel that advantage

shipp

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/546327169014431746/1378945346046132284/Corona_mk2.ship.png?ex=683e726e&is=683d20ee&hm=4249e453b0e7969a8f60a092abd1f1d85d574de20c3fec3d208e7b711d634ce4&

[remote charm]

Yeah iirc the base force is 1.5x over normal tb

For oc tb

[cunning swift]

4 oc tb should be equal to 6 normal tb so whoever was turning you with that must have been much better than i am cause i wasn't able to do that

[granite sapphire]

bread diff

but i dont think if i was as good as bread i woulda been doing any better vs him

[remote charm]

yeah bread is great with tbs so I bet some of it is just because of him

[granite sapphire]

but even vs another tb ship iirc yoyodadas i was getting manipulated rly hard with 4tb

[granite sapphire]

bread had 6 octb

[remote charm]

anyhow I agree at the base statement that oc tb is strong

Too strong maybe

[cunning swift]

Oh you said 4 in the first message

[granite sapphire]

i think a very simple question is if 2 oc tb costs even anywhere near the same as 3 base tb

[lusty zealot]

equivalent to 9tb non-OC'd

[granite sapphire]

that was yoyodadas ship

which also manipulated me pretty easily

[remote charm]

at some point felt like he was doing better with an OC 6tb than a regular 9tb

[granite sapphire]

probably bc he can afford more stuff like thrust

[rough dock]

Do you guys think it is really worth it to run a fan when overclocked rails are on the table?

I am goign to throw together a goofy fan and think about it.

[rough dock]

If you are losing damage to over penetration, it is absolutely more efficient to have more shorter oc rails.

[lusty zealot]

non-OC rails should definitely still have a niche

[bitter steppe]

OC rails work a bit differently than normal. Firstly, the diminishing returns are removed from accelerators so longer rails scale better. Secondly, the rail projectile, as well as OCDC projectile, now has infinite penetration and a damage pool that depletes as it deals damage

[lusty zealot]

without the OC rails' charge-up time, they can railfan-fire at any opportunity

extremely good for sniping weakpoints

[rough dock]

We need to do navigate the gap between should and do.

[lusty zealot]

that's why TBrails are so effective in pvp

[lusty zealot]

i think in some PVP matches just earlier people were using TBrails with OC TBs and non-OC rails to very good effect

[rough dock]

It feels like the OC rail is just going to penetrate and hit what you want to hit much easier than a fan and for cheaper.

[lusty zealot]

not as quickly though

yeah if it hits in the right spot it'll absolutely do far more damage

but it has to wind up before firing

so you have to predict a few seconds in advance

[bitter steppe]

shields are typically the best defense against rails

[lusty zealot]

and fire precisely when and where you need, with like 2-3 seconds of delay

while using a fan, you just rotate over the target and you hit it, pretty much

[rough dock]

I am liking the idea of ramming with a huge wall of volley fired oc rails.

[lusty zealot]

sure it won't blast through quite as much, but if you're targeting a weakpoint that, say, you've blasted into armour with a nuke, or exposed someone's radiators by flipping them with TB, that doesn't really matter

[lusty zealot]

this is also cool

[rough dock]

If you think about it, you are limited to 37 extenders on a single rail, but the rail wall could have hundreds.

You could be the single heaviest ship ever.

[lusty zealot]

you can have a maximum of 60 rails in the default grid, and that's only if you make them all alpha-strike with no recharging

you could make a build grid sized box of rails with max extenders i suppose

which would be funny

but also very cumbersome

[rough dock]

Reminds me of the thermal lance alpha pump block.

Maybe something kinda like this but wider and more nonsensical.

Rails and ions together are just cooler than apart.

I have found turning does not work on the ships that thread the rails through from behind the ions. The rails just hit the crystals.

Or maybe narrower and resembling a real ship is the way to go.

[next urchin]

Nope. That's weird

[light stratus]

maybe its a timing thing?

so odd

[hard owl]

Just tested an OC railgun in Cosmoteer, This is way stronger!

[near flax]

fun fact, you only need a single thermal pipe connection to the rail

[light stratus]

#1020489415476396043 message

might be a bug with OC HL AOE managing to bypass armour?

it's meant to hit the armour, then the AOE splashs on that spot, dealing 1-2k damage on the cockpit

but for some reason here it hits all 4 cockpit tiles

[cerulean hound]

any reason you can't add doors going along a heat pipe, or why they don't just connect like hallways? Also why can't hallway heat pipes bend? it's already a significant disadvantage you have to spend a lot of coils making tons of doors for them.

[pale python]

I'd imagine crew wouldn't really be able to walk through

Also so doors for heat connections are still blocked even if you used that heat pipe

[cerulean hound]

yea that's fine jsut don't add a door there

also if crew can't walk though them why can they pass through hallway pipes? the pipe would have to be in the floor or ceiling if they can pass at all

[near flax]

I think canonically they are in the ceiling

it's called a pipe crossing not a pipe walkway, I think it we could run pipes and corridors on the same tile it would trivialize thermal systems

[cerulean hound]

that's possible, i guess i'll reserve my judgement untill i mess with it some more

[tribal ridge]

huh so you did

[vague aurora]

Intentional limitations, that's how the pipe hallway is designed and I like it.

[upbeat sequoia]

That is a nice looking ship

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone Small patch now available for the Meltdown preview:

• Fixed freezes / infinite save loading due to corrupted Status SourcePart data (Note: temporary fix. Modded status effects involving the source part may not work correctly)
• Fixed crash on crew constructing TRL, Thermal Battery, and potentially Missile Launchers set to TCMs
• Fixed crash on ships being junked while having status repairs queued
• Fixed Heat Pipe structure variant’s incorrect attributes
• Fixed memory leak on unloading saves
• Removed vestigial “Overclock” stat blocks in several primary tool-tips
• Thermal Battery - decreased cost (3,500→2,500)

[minor valve]

is the thermal battery cost that big of a deal lol???

[eager gyro]

yes

[carmine heron]

yes

[plucky fossil]

\🔥

[minor valve]

its been changed around a bunch and from the (admittedly little) i messed with it, seemed kinda minor

[vague aurora]

Well, regular capacitor cost was reduced too actually previously

I don't think what's essentially a bank that can't be relied upon on its own should cost much.

[tranquil cape]

awsome, thats the thermal battery cost i thought it should be!

[tranquil cape]

yes, the option to sacrifice radiators for thermal capacity is a good thing

[icy eagle]

Decreased cost?

[minor valve]

whats the cost going into anyway?

[tranquil cape]

longetivity at the cost of sustainability

[minor valve]

no i mean materials

[tranquil cape]

oh

[vague aurora]

I don't know, a crap ton of coils that do the conducting and heat storing :>

[minor valve]

hmm

[icy eagle]

big tanks of water

[vague aurora]

tt

Oops

[regal wharf]

Because there would be no point in using any other pipe, like with everything else in the game there's purpose to how you build the ships, that's why we don't have doors on all sides of parts

[minor valve]

hot tub for the crew, possible flashboiling if youre using it while the main thrusters are firing

[tribal ridge]

ah cool update so far

[tranquil cape]

also because door and pipe being able to lead into the same spot is.. eehhhh

[icy eagle]

nvm I'm dumb I realised that was the cost in
who even uses for anything other than crew? I need to know what materials I need for this not the price of those materials dammit

[gloomy raft]

Hi all, m not up to date, is game speed reincrease/adjustment still a conversation or is it staying at half what it was/is?

[icy eagle]

You wouldn't even need a seperate pipe system, just make it go along all the hallways in the ship

[icy eagle]

Thank you!

[coarse spindle]

wouldn't it be better if thermal stuff required hypercoils to make expanding your system just a little harder?

[tranquil cape]

it doesnt need hypercoils i think

it doesnt help with sustain mostly

[vague aurora]

Great idea.

Same price just HC recipe.

[granite sapphire]

radiators require hc

but thats all thermal iirc

that uses hc

[prisma dock]

It seems to happen when the mines are in the process of turning from blue to pink to red.

[granite sapphire]

rebuffing storage mightve been unnecessary. even at 3.5k it was incredibly strong and important

rebuffing storage directly buffs ocls setups and alpha setups too

[quasi meteor]

Over clocked lasers = Ocl?

[remote charm]

overclocked large shields

im assuming

[quasi meteor]

I am always losing track of the acronyms used here

[remote charm]

and by alpha he is referring to something that goes all in on the first attack

[quasi meteor]

Recently I saw someone use UL and I had to do some tracking to find someone that clarified it meant ultra light

[granite sapphire]

overclocked large shields

alpha: builds prioritizing upfront damage output not sustaining in the long term, aka lacking power generation to fully supply systems or lacking cooling

[quasi meteor]

Thanks

[regal sand]

PvP players. Also used to determine the tier of the ship in Career's

[eternal ibex]

the OC heavy laser blaster animation's parts play out of order

this is actually pretty OP because it makes their shot come out instantly instead of needing to charge up

(example)

[lusty gulch]

Weird "KNICK KNACK" Sound on loading save...

[vocal trout]

this is a bug??????

[stuck roost]

A bug seem to prevent activating overclock on blueprint mode but if already acivated the part is allowed to switch between the two mds

[pale python]

what

record if possible

[gloomy raft]

anyone? please?

[next urchin]

We're looking at reverting parts of it. (Unfortunately for my to-do list)

[gloomy raft]

thanks for letting me know

and all your hard work

[eternal ibex]

At a minimum it looks really janky, I can't imagine it's intended

[next urchin]

It would be a bug, yeah

[light stratus]

#1370799036591898837 message

speaking of bugs

with OC HL

[next urchin]

Hmmm concerning. I fixed an issue causing them not to account for the hit ship velocity a couple patches ago. Are you certain that shot shouldn't have done enough splash damage to kill?

[light stratus]

I did my own testing firing at the closest spot and it only did 1-2k damage (hitting 1-2 tiles)

i didnt do it conclusively

[next urchin]

If you're able to test it, I'd be interested to know if that result changes with ship velocity

[warm orbit]

I liked the laser blaster's burst overclock. is there any way we can have multiple overclocks for weapons?

[next urchin]

OC Heavy Blaster shot on at 60m/s target vs a stationary target. Damage looks more or less identical to me

[light stratus]

I'm not able to test rn but I was using single fire, and the target was kiting. The shot hit the side the kite was moving towards, so a diagonal hit

[next urchin]

The target was moving towards the shooter, in my example. 60m/s may not be high enough to create an issue, if one exists

Also was alternating fire - single shot

[light stratus]

It probably can only happen on diagonals, and I think with the 1x1 slope armour

Don't know exactly where the shot hit

Speed, diagonal, 1x1 slope edge case

[light stratus]

that is concerning

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/13534922296198139909/247622B5F6E65A22D9EDDFDE55370BA335805EF2/

OC HL blast hits

no damage

uuuuuuh

????????

i think OC HL has problems shooting "allied" vessels

I changed the allegiance of the target and this stopped happening

apparently i am wrong

great

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/18053647789968151184/5AAF704D35FBA033BE5EABFCF47902B0A81BAE17/

this is after i changed allegiances of both ships

no damage

[next urchin]

what on earth

Are you able to make a save right before it hits and deals no damage?

[light stratus]

its random

i can try

[next urchin]

Yeah, I mean fire, save, see if it damages

(And then if it doesn't do any damage, reload the save and see if anything changes)

[light stratus]

alright

this is gonna be tedious cause my setup is not fast at all

what

[tame comet]

thanlk you very much for listening. i hope it goes smoothly

[next urchin]

Visuals are interpolated. Things are technically visually up to 1 tick behind where they physically are

[light stratus]

ahh

crud that was a no damage one too

[next urchin]

It's even weirder that flying into the bolt would result in no damage

[light stratus]

i got it!

third try

so where do i send the save

[next urchin]

Just send it here

Thanks!

[light stratus]

I love qa testing. Look for one bug, find another

@narrow owl what a series of events

[light stratus]

oh and confirmed it reproduces on reload

[next urchin]

Yep, I'm in the depths atm. Looks like the hit effect is happening before the ships bounds have been properly updated in the simulation, so it isn't registering the hit on the ship at all, even though it's in the right position.

Doesn't give any info on your cockpit destruction thing, but it is misbehaving for sure

[light stratus]

maybe fixing this bug fixes that other bug

i couldnt get the other bug to reproduce anyway

[stuck roost]

What parts of it are you thinking of reverting?

Crew speed adjustements I suppose?

[tame comet]

i think they want to revert the actual half speed changes and possibly speed up other things, but im not sure

walt said the speed changes were also done for pvp, and speed in that mode is a problem. so it could be speeding projectiles up to be a psuedo-slowdown

[next urchin]

I'm not sure, honestly. I put all the meltdown numbers to the equivalent of full-speed today, so at least that

[tame comet]

thank you for listening. i hope the dev team can find a solution to this going forward that mostly everyone likes

[pale python]

I think double EVA flight speed would be pretty harmless

[narrow owl]

the no damage bug was already known, and I think I noticed during the tournament that visuals were a bit off, is there anything else to see in this savefile

[light stratus]

no

[narrow owl]

so I noticed the blaster visual still in space

[next urchin]

That was a separate bug affecting the projectile lol

[narrow owl]

so the 1 hit cockpit was a bug or a pixelshot ?

[next urchin]

Yeah I have no idea what the cockpit hit was. The failure to hit is a bug. There was previously another bug where it didn't attach to the ship it hit properly

But the second one has been fixed for a couple patches iirc

[light stratus]

well, by definition, the pixelshot is a bug

unintended behaviour

i could not replicate it

[tame comet]

a bug is just a feature waiting to be discovered 🔥

[light stratus]

feature: randomly OC HL will deal quadruple damage!

[granite sapphire]

do ers properly increase thruster heat gen by 50%?

[prisma dock]

I suspect PD targeting is also off somehow (not just their dps). Look at how many shots are missing this 1 EMP missile. It's not normal that 19 PD guns struggle to shoot down a single EMP before it (almost) impacts your hull.

PD is almost worthless atm.

[eternal ibex]

hmm, are they not accounting for the extra acceleration?

[prisma dock]

could be. I don't know exactly how projectile speed changed when it comes to missiles.

[remote charm]

yeah something like that

all i know is that pd def dont feel right

i also think i had the damage bug with missiles last night but i havent recreated it

is the damage bug that widespread?

[prisma dock]

Understatement of the month. xD They feel like utter garbage.

[remote charm]

yeah i had 60 pd in a tunnel once and they were letting anything through if it asked nicely

[plucky fossil]

not in my testing

[prisma dock]

Yeah I've noticed this too, though I wasn't sure. It doesn't seem like an ER surrounded by HTs is producing the heat you'd expect from 4,5 overclocked HTs.

But hey, maybe that's the buff OC ERs need. ^^

[wispy stream]

does the explosive charge have an oc ? :V

[narrow blade]

is the energy effiency on the oc engine room like 2.25x or 1.25x

[prisma dock]

It says "power distribution efficiency: 125%" not "+125%", so it should be x1,25

[narrow blade]

so... what exactly is the point i dont understand

[prisma dock]

Of an overclocked ER? You get +25% "free" energy.

[narrow blade]

isnt overclocking a reactor just 2x "free" energy for less heat

[prisma dock]

Sure, but sometimes you need both. You should almost always OC your LR. And after that, if you need more, you overclock your ER. It can also be used to cut down on crew (you essentially need 25% less crew dedicated to the ER).

I also OC my ERs, if I would otherwise need a second one to achieve the desired speed.

Less surface area

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone After reading through all of your feedback and discussing our options internally, we have decided to mostly roll back the half-speed changes, except that we are keeping some amount of the ship drag changes and the relative projectile speed increase in order to nerf the speed meta a bit. A new preview build with those changes reverted is now available. Please let us know if it looks like we missed anything. Thanks for your continued testing and feedback!

Other Fixes:

• Fixed Thermal Resonance Lance stats showing per-hit values as per-second
• Fixed Thermal Resonance Lance shield piercing amplification exponent not actually being applied
• Fixed Overclocked Heavy Blaster firing before its animation completes

[icy eagle]

🔥

[tacit peak]

<3

THank yoU!

[narrow blade]

yay!!!!

[regal plume]

damn

[frigid gull]

but i like speed

[hasty geode]

I didn't try it out, so could someone please explain what the problem was so I can understand

[regal plume]

I liked battles not lasting 2 seconds

[paper hemlock]

Nice, they got rid of the bad stuff and kept the good <3

[narrow blade]

so uhh the game was just slowed down to practically half speed

[hasty geode]

0.o

[narrow blade]

if battles last 2 seconds then your either spamming nukes or 30 oc dc

[tacit peak]

I like long battles

but

also

500000 years also not good

[regal sand]

basically, they had changed the game x1 speed to stable's x1/2

[tacit peak]

though

[hasty geode]

I see

[tacit peak]

I do love the deck stuff walt is on now

[hasty geode]

This not good

[tacit peak]

a new deck weapon makes me smile

[polar knot]

Does anyone here know if the thermal lance still doesn’t do any damage to deck cannons on the same ship despite having friendly fire on?

[hasty geode]

W revert

[tacit peak]

finally i get to make fun ships again

without modded

[hasty geode]

Thank you for explaining

[regal sand]

it's for optimisation reason AND to fight against UL meta

[narrow blade]

if your idea of fun ships is spamming 30 billion weapons inside a brick of armor then yeah ig

[regal plume]

why couldn't you before?

[frigid gull]

https://tenor.com/view/fast-car-gif-22098603

how i want my ships to be

[tacit peak]

only had deck cannons for deck weaponry

I like hull ships

I am not too much a fan of making small bits of openings

I like deck vs deck

[narrow blade]

mining lasers exist

[tacit peak]

ok sure but

[vague aurora]

Very reckless domination cappers

[narrow blade]

hey nick. would you crash out if i named one of my ships "world trade centre"

[tacit peak]

I prefer this way more

[olive thistle]

NICE!

[lusty zealot]

optimal

[narrow blade]

nick seems to have become suspicously silent after my comment

[vague aurora]

Half speed changes were silly anyways.

[tacit peak]

I KNOW we wont ever get deck lasers the way we got deck cannon but

A man Can pray 😔

heat cannon is what we got

good enough for me

[narrow blade]

WE HAVE MINING LASER!!!!

[vague aurora]

1. Why would I
2. Meltdown update preview

[tacit peak]

ooo I remember your ship

[regal sand]

Mining laser damage is actually pretty good... if you ignore the steep energy cost and low range.

[granite sapphire]

what is the intended game speed now

1/2x?

[narrow blade]

alright guys im gonna start raging about this change since i got slightly used to it

[tranquil wedge]

Id assume so. It feels like before half speed but ships are a bit slower

[granite sapphire]

that sounds annoying

i already got used to the faster pace and now we have to go back to not just old 1/2x but literally slower than that?

[narrow blade]

imo im fine with like everything BUT power/ammo/material usage and crew being 1x speed cuz now my horrible racing craft are incredibly uncontrollable

[tranquil wedge]

yea rip

[granite sapphire]

did balance council sign off on this?

[regal sand]

no, it's the contrary. Before preview base speed was x1, it was changed to half that in preview, and now they turned back to initial x1

[tranquil wedge]

Most of them did yea

[granite sapphire]

"like before half speed" but slower

[paper hemlock]

How is it slower, they sped up projectile speed

[regal sand]

it's not that it's slower, but that there are changes in drag and projectile speed

and projectiles are actually faster

[granite sapphire]

because the base game speed will be 1/2x now

[narrow blade]

does the boost thruster produce more heat the more batteries its been supplied???

[tranquil wedge]

But its still the preview. Its likely that things change again

[narrow blade]

no wonder its lighting on fire then exploding violently

(also it will like explode no matter what in like 20 seconds or smth)

[paper hemlock]

It was already basically 1/2x?

[narrow blade]

j yuuki on drugs rn ngl

[granite sapphire]

reverting to pre halfspeed implies we are going back to 1/2x speed for pvp

[paper hemlock]

Keep it civil please

[granite sapphire]

which means if the pace of the game is left any slower aka drag increasing the game will become slower than it used to be

[cerulean prairie]

For multiplayer I assume people will stick to 1/2. For Career, whatever people were using before.

[granite sapphire]

so the experience will be even slower than pre half speed?

[cerulean prairie]

Only for very fast ships I think.

[paper hemlock]

Did you read the changes? 1x was 1/2x previously, if anything it should be faster because the kept changes with projectile speed. I haven't tested the drag yet

[tranquil wedge]

ships above 75m/s get higher diminishing returns i think

[granite sapphire]

trust me, i know what i am talking about lol

[paper hemlock]

Have you played around with the changes yet?

[granite sapphire]

yes

actively in pvp lobby rn

[narrow blade]

i dont like how boost thrusters inevitably just light on fire smh

[cunning swift]

yay ships can actually turn again

[narrow blade]

having it use up 6 radiators worth of heat is kinda ridiculous

[paper hemlock]

12k kilonewtons sounds kinda crazy

[narrow blade]

currently 24k

[granite sapphire]

use heat storages. lol

their whole gimmick is infinitely ramping heat consumption

[narrow blade]

and the heat storages dont fill up??

[granite sapphire]

trying to sustain them infinitely with zero heat buffer is crazy

[narrow blade]

what exactly does the heat storage do

[granite sapphire]

stores heat

in your system

[narrow blade]

what am i supposed to do to said stored heat

[paper hemlock]

You play around with the limitations

[narrow blade]

i dont like having to micro a thruster while trying to go fast around a corner

[granite sapphire]

vent it later. or not. up to you

[narrow blade]

right ctrl b exists smh

on a piece of shit this size i cant really fit worthwhile heat storages

[paper hemlock]

Where are the boosters

[narrow blade]

i removed the single one because it would explode after the first lap

which is like 20 seconds long

[granite sapphire]

uhm

i think something is wrong with something

[bitter steppe]

Agree to disagree.

[granite sapphire]

any shields last roughly half a second against my oc ion cruisers now

oc ls too

[paper hemlock]

If it's for racing couldn't you layer more radiators? Unless there's a limitation in terms of cost

[granite sapphire]

i think maybe oc ions or trl got stealth buffed

[compact ibex]

@granite sapphire look at this: Fixed Thermal Resonance Lance shield piercing amplification exponent not actually being applied
I guess that's the reason

[granite sapphire]

...whgat?

so ur telling me....

ok idc

it doesnt matter anymore

[narrow blade]

idk

[paper hemlock]

It's weird seeing crew move fast lol

[granite sapphire]

@cerulean prairie so uhh, was the trl shield debuff literally not functional before? like it didnt do anything?

[paper hemlock]

It seems a bit too fast tbh, maybe a slight speed decrease could be good

[cerulean prairie]

That's more of a question for @next urchin.

[granite sapphire]

ok, thanks

cause that would be... funny

[tranquil wedge]

Im pretty sure that was the issue

[compact ibex]

It seems to vaporish shields right now

[narrow blade]

is there a way to limit the amount of thrust used for turning cuz even tapping on my a or d keys just straight up turns my ship like 40 degrees

[gloomy raft]

my biggest concern with overclocking stuff is that the benefit scales with the size of the ship

so smaller ships dont really benefit at all due to size constraints

[narrow blade]

the humble (slightly overpowered) heat exchanger:

[gloomy raft]

im worried that this will make small glass cannon type ships useless. and im also thinking about how that will affect bombers/fighters waay down the line

[granite sapphire]

oc pairs very well with small ships due to how smaller thrusters benefit better from overclocking, small reactor overclock allows you to support a lot more weapons on fighters with very little heat gen, and exchangers allow pipeless venting at a small scale

[lusty zealot]

in what way?

[coarse spindle]

Nooo the actually good battle pace was removed

[rough shuttle]

yeah and i think it also works really well because of the very expensive price to get a ship overclocked and the firey risks that come with it

[rough shuttle]

ruined ship designs and required cores to like touch the thing they supplied to have an effective ship in my opinion

[narrow blade]

the humble speed slider thing:

[gloomy raft]

so like larger ships benefit because u can have alot more overclocked on it. but smaller ships might struggle cos the space u can use is limited.

[granite sapphire]

tinport try not to be smug and wrong challenge

[coarse spindle]

?

That's not how it worked at all

[gloomy raft]

so its harder to get enough output on a small ship for it to be as useful no?

[lusty zealot]

'larger ships are better because they have more stuff' is what i'm getting from this

[gloomy raft]

hey im not an expert im asking

[lusty zealot]

which is correct, but doesn't tell me how larger ships benefit more from overclocking than smaller ones

[rough shuttle]

It took way to long for crew to walk from reactor to weapon, old ship designs that worked flawlessly were suddenly bad. like ION setups

[gloomy raft]

ok hold on

[coarse spindle]

Every ship had that, balance wise nothing changed

[granite sapphire]

oc benefits ships across all price brackets. larger ships struggle with implementing redundancy efficiently and fitting cooling and smaller ones struggle with efficient pipe networks

[lusty zealot]

logistics weren't actually affected. crew speed and power generation were halved, but so was power drain

[granite sapphire]

not true

[narrow blade]

i dont understand how the "good battle pace" was affected...

[gloomy raft]

yeh but not equally right?