Meltdown Update Preview

[surreal pelican]

How many are you trying to use?

[rough dock]

They just need really short power delivery paths since they use power relatively fast for how much capacity they have.

[surreal pelican]

Yeah, thats true

Idk I found them really effective expecially with the small, but highly impactful change of their projectiles being hitscan

Kinda made them like mini ions

[rough dock]

Yeah. I am very pleased with them. I was getting micro outages with like a 4 tile walk from a med generator, though.

[surreal pelican]

Dang

Try an oc small?

[rough dock]

Yeah, it was smalls that I was using.

I will need to plan future small laser ships around having the shortest possible walks.

[light stratus]

Overclocking small cannons too

Extremely cheap firepower

[surreal pelican]

Tripleshot is really nice

Though the fact that they have to be on the front of my ship still kinda doesnt sell them for me

[light stratus]

They have the durability of armour, and can be shielded easily

And you can just spam them

[molten perch]

Doesnt seem to happen consistently, no idea why

[next urchin]

sigh

Another one to look into I suppose

[light stratus]

it'd be nice if it was consistent and reproducible

[molten perch]

Ill see if I can try to log occurances to provide better data than "its not consistent"

[surreal pelican]

I’ll try to do the same

[near flax]

programing wise how does the OCTB work

and is there a way to fix the problem of when light ships get moved by the burst they move so fast they get a bunch of drag and then stop on the spot?

[next urchin]

It applies an impulse to the centre of mass of any ship within its radius. The light ship problem is a drag problem, not an OCTB problem. AFAIK drag is being changed in some way soon, so I'm waiting for that before evaluating the TB jank

The problem is that the drag equation produces a lower resultant speed for a ship going 500m/s vs a ship going 100m/s

It's acting more like something hitting a non-newtonian fluid

[near flax]

could a speed limit when hit by the the burst be implemented as a way to avoid having to deal with that?

i have zero clue how it works so im just aproching this from a logic puzzle perspective

[next urchin]

Possibly, but whether its even necessary remains to be seen. Tapuck said something about the high drag exponent causing that behaviour, but I don't even know where that's set so I'm completely working off what he said

[light stratus]

What's OCTB again?

[near flax]

overclocked tractorbeam

[next urchin]

Objectively the funniest OC

[light stratus]

from the one who added it 😉

i guess i should check it out

[next urchin]

The OCs are all my children

I just have favourites

[regal wharf]

like any good parent no no no, your just more "proud" then others

[plucky fossil]

new cosmoteer lore: it takes place in slime

[rough dock]

Look, I know this is a hot take, but I am just going to say MRT overclock is the best overclock.

[bitter steppe]

the Genome Guardian crossover where the entirety of the game is actually on a microscopic level in a petri dish

[rough dock]

It is going to be an MRTbomination when it is done, and I love it. I am planning to build a huge missile pod off on a arm to act as a counterweight to align the center of mass behind the two big oc MRTs.

[light stratus]

while 60% better ramp time is great, MRTs are a logistical strain

you don't even gain more thrust

[rough dock]

But you do. Each extender adds 250 base thrust before the multiplier so they become more cost efficient the longer they are.

[light stratus]

cost is not just price, it's also price in space, crew and logistics

for example, you want those MRTs as close to the outside of your ship as possible for the most leverage and to make use of that faster ramp up

[rough dock]

Each extender becomes more space and crew efficient the longer the MRT is.

[light stratus]

but fitting that when you already protect a central core is pretty hard

[rough dock]

The both OCed and normal MRT are also the most surface area efficient thrust.

You just need to build the ship so that the center of mass is behind the off center thrust.

If you look at this, the MRT is off center, but the random little arm on the back shifts the center of mass behind the single long MRT letting the ship go way faster than it would without the single big overclocked MRT.

With an overclocked MRT, you can even haul an 37 extender railgun backwards at over 125m/s for under 1.5 while staying super skinny... ignoring a certain weird arm thing.

All of my favorite Meltdown ships only make sense with overclocked MRTs

[bitter steppe]

I've been having a blast in PVP with my Battleship using a Spinal MRT and Deck Cannons

[tranquil cape]

manuvering thrusters are REAL

[olive thistle]

whoa, that thing is 1.5mil?

it looks like a 10mil career barge lol

[plucky fossil]

what 0 thrust does to a mf

[bitter steppe]

my Battleship has gone through several iterations since that version, but Quix and I have been using the same principle on other ships too with spinal MRTs

[olive thistle]

that looks really fun to pilot

[bitter steppe]

tbh it's the first ship i've ever used hotkey thrusters for

turn the MRT on and leave it on, activate turning thrusters as needed

[next urchin]

MRTs were one of the harder OCs to come up with. I didn't want something just like more thrust, because the extenders already do that exact thing.

[next urchin]

But I've wanted to see more ships of this shape for a while

Also heavy ships

[rough dock]

Spinal MRT is lame. Off center or go home.

every one loves the off center, front facing OCMRT that is taking up a spot that could have been a gun.

[narrow owl]

Broadsider ?

[bitter steppe]

Sort of, but also if you rotate just slightly on the approach you can fire all cannons forward for devastating volleys

[tame comet]

probably. oc dcs dont need that much crew cuz they fire so damn slowly and mrts are cost efficient. majority of maneuvering thrust is also much cheaper because dynamo and heat missiles are cost efficient too. really maximizes its dollars spent

[rough dock]

I am thinking of including a random railgun on my ship just because railguns are heavy and I need a heavy counter weight.

Railgun extender is 2x as dense as armor.

Deck cannon weighs 27.07. What an oddly specific weight. I would have expected the deck cannon to be much denser with the big turret sitting ontop of the room. Unlike other tiles, I could see a strong argument for it being very heavy due to the double decker nature.

[stuck roost]

I wish that changes to the right most settings for ship stats was remembered across saves

right now each time I open te game the settings get reset (credit, mass, flying direction & cursor position) and I have to reenable them individually

[light stratus]

i dont think mass is being displayed correctly anyway

in blueprint mode mass isn't displayed

[plucky fossil]

true!!!! #1019739575683399840

[plucky fossil]

yeah because the game doesn't know how to calculate it without an existing ship

[light stratus]

its mass

its a tally of the total mass of all parts

that should be capable of being displayed inside blueprint mode

[next urchin]

Yeah, it's on the list

[lusty gulch]

How do u extend the parts list upwards?

[stuck roost]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

It's stupd but I seriously does not know

It may be either a bug when I open the sub tab of the resonnance turret or that my settings got messed up and shows more than two rows of parts (or both lol)

[narrow owl]

DPS is missing from OCSC tooltip

From OCLC too but that's less relevant as you don't really use it for dps

[rough dock]

I am going to go use the OCLC for dps right now.

[coarse spindle]

1. I don't think fires should be visible on enemy ships
2. I believe this spotter has a minor problem

[narrow owl]

I think fire should be visible, I mean cockpits and sensors can afford thermal imaging right ?

[rough dock]

I don't like the fire icons.

[coarse spindle]

i believe you should only know what you can realistically see

[rough dock]

Yes. We need to add porthole blocks to the ship and a spotter crew role! Great idea!

[plucky fossil]

you realistically can see fire

well with fancy particles

[pale python]

fire indicators became a texture instead of indicators and i assume its temporary vfx until status icons are fully implemented

[gloomy raft]

what happens when u overclock tractorbeam?

[light stratus]

I calculated the dps it's 0.2 higher than LC

Non OC LC that is

[light stratus]

OC tractor beams gain a pulse that can send a target at an impulse towards or away from it

Basically instant acceleration on targets

[pale python]

i wonder if a short duration instead of a pulse would be cool but i'd imagine so many huge effects would lag

[light stratus]

The pulse is funny though

U can make ships go 500ms with it

Though they will rapidly stop moving due to drag

[gloomy raft]

nice!

is there any chance of getting direct contact radiators to work without pipes or is that deliberately not being done??

[eager gyro]

you need to move that up by one, its not conected

basicly the green arows ar not alighned

[gloomy raft]

ok thanks

[regal plume]

surprised that thing doesn't melt...

[bitter steppe]

That's why it's called the "Meltdown Update" aka "Why is my ship on fire!?"

[plucky fossil]

in my experience the fire from self heat is negligible

i just melt into nothing

probably because i use like 5 radiators total

[cerulean prairie]

I am planning to solve this... somehow.

[flat skiff]

is the game still running 30tps at 1x speed?

[next urchin]

Fire indicators have been textures since long before statuses

[pale python]

sorry i meant fire icon indicators weren't mediaeffects or mediaeffects-like (that's what i know about the current meltdown implementation)

you could'nt see them if you disabled the ui, and can't be seen on enemy ships

[next urchin]

Yeah that's what I mean - they have been for a long time
Visibility on other ships was changed with statuses, yeah. The ui thing is just a bug

[lusty zealot]

the Investor, monolith-style ship

[carmine heron]

what does it invest in

[lusty zealot]

gun

[carmine heron]

w

[rough dock]

The game always seems to autosave when I toggle on overclocking as if it knows something I don't.

[plucky fossil]

halved from stable

[quasi meteor]

FYI this is genuinely sick and I am in love

Is there any chance we could get a png cause this thing is actually such a sick design

[ember pasture]

Really wish there was a repeating stencil paint system so i can copy-paste this paintjob onto my ship.

[lusty zealot]

you could just straight up copy and paste the paintjob

[ember pasture]

Ship is not a U shape

[lusty zealot]

well then the paintjob won't work in any case

[ember pasture]

hence the "repeating stencil" part. Some kind of repeating texture system to paste a paintjob style onto any shaped ship

code wise it would be that the shaded paint surround a 'puzzle piece' and regions with shading going inwards would be connection points. Then you can just scan all shops for these stencils, and randomly generate connected parts.

[paper hemlock]

Or you could just learn how to paint

This seems like a hefty amount of work on the devs part

[ember pasture]

maybe, but it is the kind of thing second year coders do.

[paper hemlock]

Second year coders?

[ember pasture]

Already can, but just not this well. And every time i expand my career ship i have to repaint it.

[ember pasture]

Yeah. It was a intro level code task for c++ users (into to c, not coding) in my uni at end second year.

[paper hemlock]

This is off topic

[next urchin]

It's not a skill issue so much as a limited time/effort issue. Afaik we are planning to support custom decal composites of some sort, though

If you mean some sort of 'wave function collapse'-esque system for painting, I don't think that's something that will end up in Cosmoteer. Technically interesting, but I don't see much of a point to prodecurally generating ship paints

[dark lily]

Be an awkward conversation between the devs, who code, and the architects, who make and paint ships to put in the game 💀

[next urchin]

"Sorry guys, we're replacing you with a machine that does your job but much worse"

• Society in 2025

[near flax]

at least this time its not an llm

[pale python]

call me chatgpt the way i make bad ideas fast

[next urchin]

The only real difference between procedural painting algorithms and LLMs is that grifters have only convinced the world that one of them is basically sentient and omni-capable

[regal wharf]

wheres that one post about on of googles Ai that they simulated running a bisness and had to be replaced by a new AI so the only rational thing it could come up with was to blackmail the software engineer into not replacing it

[twilit matrix]

Yeah, pretty much.

LLMs are not magic everything-machines. Neither are they evil masterminds who are scheming to destroy humanity. Nor are they atrocities which must be destroyed before they unemploy everyone.

[pale python]

happened when trying to close a modded part sub-tab/minitab

[next urchin]

Ah, I think I see the issue. Would only ever happen if your last selected tab was another sub-group

[pale python]

yeah i think it was the TRL as the last one

[twilit matrix]

I found it. "Between Nine and Eleven", by Adam Roberts, in case you want to read it.

[next urchin]

It's actually not that simple. IIRC it's actually based on the part collider areas multiplied by the density, but I may be wrong on that. Either way, the actual calculated mass is a function of the physics engine. Not difficult to show in BP mode, but would require more work than just for each part: totalMass += part.Mass

[light stratus]

that is a really unintuitive way to calculate grid mass

[next urchin]

I think it was less intentionally designed that way and more "the physics engine takes density and collider shapes, and outputs a mass value, so lets just use that"

But yes, I've spent a decent chunk of time in the past just trying to figure out where tf mass is calculated

[plucky fossil]

mostly irrelevant to cosmoteer but i was reminded of barotrauma where you can also overload your devices with extra power and they do more work but might explode/ignite

the hypothetically optimal flaming reactor \👍

[next urchin]

Fixed for the next patch. Now I just have to fix the fact that instead of crashing it does this

[pale python]

that is certainly something

anyway nice!!

placing a TRL makes pumps flicker for a tick

[next urchin]

'flicker' how?

[pale python]

unplaced
placed - active animation frame is on
1 tick later

[near flax]

a gif would be helpful

[pale python]

been ages since i turned on gif recorder

[next urchin]

The in-game gif recorder is useless anyway tbh

resolution for ants

[pale python]

no copy feature fr

[next urchin]

Hm, the TRL must emit a non-zero thermal_pump_utilization for a tick

[bitter steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/zoolander-quotes-ben-stiller-funny-center-for-ants-gif-3548514

[bitter steppe]

The more ships you build, the more you're helping Walt to train S.A.R.I.S. bot

[bitter steppe]

This version is much more up to date, and has a much more fitting paintcard made by TooMuchErin

[quasi meteor]

thanks :)))

[grim gyro]

so does it just turn slightly to fire all the dc?

[hard orbit]

No way to loop the pipe around the reactor? The crew get really congested. 😅

[bitter steppe]

Yes you could do that, but this version didn't seem to have any issue with thrust flickering and maintains a solid 90.0 m/s

[grim gyro]

how come its set to alternating fire?

is it for stun reasons?

wouldnt it be better to shoot both due to the tight angle of fire?

[bitter steppe]

Stun and fire rate

[grim gyro]

k

[bitter steppe]

I've found that firing multiple volleys with alt fire is still more than enough burst damage compared to the incredibly long delay of sync fire

[grim gyro]

is it meant to be played with rts?

[bitter steppe]

You certainly can, I typically use direct control but I think I have the thrust hotkeys setup if you just want to leave the MRT autofiring and toggle turning thrust as needed

[grim gyro]

oh right i forgot weapon control in direct control was disabled by default

do many people use it?

[bitter steppe]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have weapon control toggle set to a hotkey to switch between AI control and manual aim while using direct control

[rough dock]

Giant OCMRT orbiter seems to be working okay, but the medium OCMRT orbiter definitely seems better/

About two thirds of its missiles end up hitting its self as it tries to fly in circles.

I wonder if a mine laying orbiter with front facing mine layers would work.

[lusty zealot]

i do also

[grim gyro]

what the hell how did i JUST find out you can overclock factories

[kind estuary]

every day i learn a new amazing button in this game

[kind estuary]

information overload. you missed checking some parts, best check every part again so you can be more shocked a month later that you still missed something 😄

[regal plume]

what's the DPS on that thing?

[rough dock]

It is just 48 thermal missiles and 32 overclocked ions. Most of the missiles do nothing when circle strafing since they just hit the ship.

I stopped working on it due to the unforseen missile problems.

I was hoping the tractor beams would be better for keeping a fixed distance while orbiting as well.

The big MRT T also segmented things in a way that made it feel really inorganic and bad.

I like the design of its ion core though. I think I am going to try to find a way to recycle it.

[kind estuary]

that core looks awesome!

[rough dock]

I am playing with it a bit here. I might scale it down. 64 is a bit much.

[kind estuary]

it looks VERY fragile outside of career, but if those shields dont get cracked then holy is that ever cool

[rough dock]

The shields will be overclocked, but something that big is just being built for fun, not to play with.

[kind estuary]

I might have a problem. i cant stop making oversized ships and playing with them lol

[light stratus]

I make ships to play with first

The only problem I have is that I can't make them much bigger... approaching the size limit I am

[kind estuary]

biggest problem with big ships is actually finishing them!

[rough dock]

I suppose I could load up the old career save and stomp rando AI with a 10m ship.

[kind estuary]

career transition point version back when i still had the TCMs in the central barrel

the damage on that thing was horrible, but it didnt matter because the angles and other defenses stopped pretty much everything

next to no repair costs ❤️

[regal plume]

EMP missiles are the bane of my designs :/

[tulip nebula]

We dont have speed-base weapon, right?
-# >:D

[regal plume]

Tractor beams count?

[plucky fossil]

meeeeee

[light stratus]

those aren't really weapons

they are closer to thrusters

[bitter steppe]

Considering they affect projectiles when overclocked they sort of count as weapons if you get creative

[regal plume]

What's a good DPS for a 1.5mil Meltdown ship?

[plucky fossil]

4 ion beam

[regal plume]

10k dps?

[light stratus]

427.75 dps per OC SC, 20 OC SCs, 8555 dps

yeah roughly 10k dpm is great for a 1.5mil ship

bear in mind you can't really calculate dps for OC LCs

and disruptors technically turbo boost ur dps, but not in a way u can statistically show

[plucky fossil]

dps literally does not matter

if your opponent dies you win

that does not mean you need to blast down the front door

[light stratus]

eeeh

true

dps doesnt matter if u dont hit, and low dps might mean one huge burst fire

[narrow owl]

Hmmmm

[carmine heron]

that guy is practically in open space

[narrow owl]

The disruptor ain't even operational ;-;

[hollow gull]

when I un-oc engine rooms, the connected engines stay OC and must quickly be manually undone before a fire starts, are there plans to change this?

[narrow owl]

I reported it as a bug iirc

[modern socket]

Could you send me the ship.png files for that diagonal ship and the other one with both OC chain guns please? I want to test my own ships against them.

[narrow owl]

Can we get a (temporary) built-in that shows the use of the TRL and overclocks, because I kinda have trouble with how to properly use some of them

[plucky fossil]

which

there are surely player examples already

[narrow owl]

all of them

except maybe capacitor and cannons

My biggest trouble is... What even is the purpose of the TRL

What is the role of that weapon

Like it heats up stuff

but where does it fit in a ship

An example ship would help a lot

@plucky fossil

[plucky fossil]

in pvp? currently its main use is just to debuff shields

the dilator pump increases its debuff, which is increased damage vulnerability

it's like a deck mounted hitscan unavoidable "all enemy projectiles are eb bolts" beam

[plucky fossil]

wherever is convenient lol

[narrow owl]

not my question

[narrow owl]

Ah, thank you

[plucky fossil]

anywhere

probably close to a reactor

[narrow owl]

not my question again

[plucky fossil]

it doesn't matter where it goes as long as it gets heat pipe and has some semblance of logistic to it for its fairly low power draw

it literally does not matter where it goes since it's a roof beam

*in terms of combat effectiveness

[narrow owl]

it's not my question

[plucky fossil]

what is your question then

[narrow owl]

My question "where does it fit" was like is it a main weapon, is it a support weapon, is it a damage dealer ?

Like do I get one a buff it to the max

or do I use it with other weapons

is it an Ion core type of weapon

or is it an emp type of weapon

[plucky fossil]

ohhhh

i see

it's not really useful as main weapon or damage dealer

(unless your opponent has no shields and no heat exchangers)

[narrow owl]

thank you

How much should I invest in it

[plucky fossil]

*at its current state!! hopefully balance changes come and it changes

[plucky fossil]

for dilators? as much as you can cram in lol

if you're using it for shield debuff

if you're using it for heat damage, then as many as you can fit while still keeping all pumps powered

if using for shield debuff, only use 1 beam though since the effect doesn't stack

[vocal trout]

damage boost on parts as well

[plucky fossil]

i haven't seen a ship make good use of it yet except with mining lasers

(since they pen shields)

[vocal trout]

what in the deer fall

hmm id imagine other than rail and dc theyd have no use

[kind estuary]

Please send me your designs as well 😄

keep in mind both of these designs are incomplete and may have various errors. the r0.60 may or may not even function still as it was made before the public preview and many changes have happened since

[rough dock]

I wish the heat extractors did not show their aura when cutting and pasting.

[narrow owl]

TRL test

[narrow owl]

Meh, I find that helpful

[hollow gull]

does this do anything? it is weird that it connects

[pale python]

no

its pulling in heat but has no storage or way to dissipate

[hollow gull]

if that is the case then it probably shouldn't connect

[regal plume]

overclocked shields really let you fight above weight class

1.4m vs 2m Imperium Ion Beam

[pale python]

it connects to the heat system so that would have been a correct connection even if it had no way to escape or store

[prisma dock]

It connects the same way you can connect a Laser to a corridor that leads to a dead end. But for it to be useful, that corridor needs to lead somewhere.

[narrow owl]

well you can do the same with weapons so that's normal behaviour

you can overclock capacitors

so you need to be able to connect it to heat pipes

[hollow gull]

I know you can overclock capacitors and that stuff, but it seems unintuitive that you can connect these two components directly is all

connecting a heat pipe to it so it can connect to the heat sytem is one thing

but I'm not aware of any situation where this would help, and perhaps newer players may confuse the heat exchanger for a vent or something

[prisma dock]

weird FX

[hard orbit]

I suspect it is this way because some parts do allow heat to pass through them e.g. heat missile launchers and the TRL turret. So in that case a heat exchange connected to the part can have its heat piped out a different port on the part.

[next urchin]

@crimson osprey

[dark lily]

Technically speaking while it's best used as a support weapon given that it amplifies the amount of damage other weapons do, you cannot underestimate it's ability to melt through armor like butter and set the entire opponent on fire when you invest into it properly

You need but watch what they do to asteroids to understand

[eager gyro]

its kind like disrupters

[plucky fossil]

however, asteroids do not move and do not have shields

radiators are the strongest (non mining laser) weapon by that metric

i haven't really seen the damage amplification being used very well either, mostly just the shield debuff

if it were useful then more ships owuld use amp pumps but it also is probably too early to generalize

[dark lily]

Or the ones that you can buff to apply more than 550 heat per second at a much higher range when placed on a turret...

And yeah, to what end do you claim "if they were good then we'd see more of them" when it's already been established that people aren't good at coming up with new competitive designs

[plucky fossil]

very high amp (dilator doesn;t do anything alone) beams still cannot break shields with exchangers alone

[dark lily]

And?

A ton of weapons can't break overclocked shields if the opponent is playing correctly

[narrow owl]

radiator is hitting PD

[prisma dock]

That can't be it, because according to build mode this Radiator is unblocked at 100% efficiency. Also I've never seen this effect before.

[narrow owl]

From a testbed it's very inefficient as an "only" weapon, demanding significant investment for not much damage. Best used imo for support, but using it for damage is also viable as long as you're pairing it with its own support, something to help take down shields, and something to quickly take down priority targets.

[granite sapphire]

some may apply more pressure than others

[narrow owl]

It's the effect when the radiator exhaust is hitting something and the pd is heating up

There's a loose chunk of structure

mb

it's not the pd it's loose structure beig hit and heating up the pd

[crimson osprey]

TRLs can absolutely be used as a main weapon, and as far as pure weapons go, they're better at dropping stacked shields than most of them. While they don't do direct damage to shields, they're more than capable of burning up the emitters provided the system is big enough. However, their support role is still where it really shines, both for debuffing shields and armor

[narrow owl]

OCLC is more viable for firestarting

[narrow owl]

The problem with TRL is that non-OC shields don't really get damaged from it alone

[pale python]

i think thats kinda fine tbh

breaking: game adds weapons that are more effective at some things than others, chaos ensues

[crimson osprey]

They don't have to be. Their debuff lowers their HP and the weapon itself can burn the emitter

[lusty zealot]

TRLs vs shields as a weapon is interesting, bc they are very slow to get through shields, but, the damage they do to shields is permanent bc they hit the generator rather than just drain the battery

[narrow owl]

yeah mb wording, it's a weakness, not really an issue

[narrow owl]

my ass running exchangers on non-oc shields cuz I oc the capacitor

[crimson osprey]

When TRLs did damage to shields during testing, their debuff amplified the effect and they abolutely crushed all shield configurations nearly instantly

[crimson osprey]

Against 4OCLS 6 exchangers. The LSs melt pretty quickly

[narrow owl]

try against non-oc

and have heat exchangers

pipes don't pull hostile heat

[crimson osprey]

It will make zero difference and I said 6 exchangers were present

[narrow owl]

try it

just unoc the shields

[crimson osprey]

no overclock, 6 exchangers still present. Not sure why you expected something different

[narrow owl]

hmmm

[crimson osprey]

Hmmm indeed

[narrow owl]

how large is the TRL ship ?

[crimson osprey]

1.5m

[granite sapphire]

working on a trl main weapon ship myself

[crimson osprey]

And it's not at all the strongest system one can create at that point value

TRL main weapons can work fine and can get through anything given enough time. They just don't shine as much because they shine more as a debuff than as a main weapon

[narrow owl]

I was testing a <1mil ship using a trl as a support weapon, sent the video, but even against built-in without heat protection it didn't seem to damage the shields at all

that's why I was dubious

[granite sapphire]

probably could use some more amp investment

[narrow owl]

not as a support weapon

[crimson osprey]

I've been building TRL ships of all kinds since the council got a hold of the weapon. It's changed many times, several because I broke the hell out of it

[narrow owl]

the goal was just to make shields easier to pierce

[granite sapphire]

well if youre using it as a support weapon with no investment into the thing that makes it do damage you shouldnt expect it to do damage

[granite sapphire]

it was def helping it in that manner

dilation is rly strong

[crimson osprey]

If I say something can or can't be done, it's only because I've done a heck of a lot of testing

[narrow owl]

was at least expecting to notice the heat effect that's what I'm saying

[narrow owl]

yeah, used 6 or 8 idr

[granite sapphire]

oh well sorry the way it works is that dilation doesnt increase the heat application

[narrow owl]

ahh oki

[granite sapphire]

to shields

amps increase the heat application

dilation strengthens the debuff to shields and the beams aoe

i dont think the trl benefits itself off dilation though im not sure

i suppose it could

[crimson osprey]

In and around the 1.5m price, you want as many dilations as possible and a single TRL if you're gunning for shields debuffs

If you want to mainweapon TRLs, you want to stack amps primarily

[granite sapphire]

i still think that should be changed :/

[crimson osprey]

We'll see. Either way knowing how it works allows plenty of ways to make it work

[hollow gull]

how many amps are needed for a lance to reasonably burn a small emitter?

[narrow owl]

interesting

I think that should be added to the weapon description because I had pretty much no idea what I could do with it from the tooltips

[granite sapphire]

also is oclr "fixed"?

[narrow owl]

what was the issue

[granite sapphire]

weird battery mechanics

[narrow owl]

dare to explain more ?

[granite sapphire]

its complicated short story crew sometimes take longer to pick up batteries than they should from oc lrs

[crimson osprey]

Amps say "thermal amplification" meaning more heat
Dilations say "thermal dilation" meaning more aoe

If you want to main weapon, one would want more heat

[granite sapphire]

from my testing trbs are perfectly strong as a main weapon. im trying to make an emp trb thing rn

[narrow owl]

yeah but I thought you kinda needed both

[granite sapphire]

youll want a couple dilators but you really dont need much more for primary trbs

[next urchin]

TRL doesn't proc any heat generation from shield OC because it neither does direct damage nor EMPs

[narrow owl]

oki

[lusty zealot]

fun fact: i tried this in testing, and it did not work well

that was almost certainly down to me investing way too much into EMP and not enough into TRL though, plus i'm not very experienced with diagonal avoiders

[crimson osprey]

If you mainweapon, some dilations are good, but you mostly want amps. If you want to debuff, be it armor or shields, the opposite is true

[next urchin]

Which part

[granite sapphire]

youve mentioned this a few times now. fundamentally, theres no reason it shouldnt work afaik

[lusty zealot]

yeah it should work

just uuh. learn from my mistakes ig

[granite sapphire]

trl debuff doesnt stack so having multiple is actively worse than a single one for debuffing shields

not just less efficient due to the cost of having a second one but literally a weaker debuff

[lusty zealot]

-# *multiple on a single system

but yeah

[next urchin]

How to utilise the weapons and pumps is an exercise for the player. Tbh I have no idea how to put together useful TRL configurations, so me adding anything to the tool tip would be unreliable info at best

[next urchin]

Ah, right, yeah I've been considering making it stack but have to figure out how I want them to combine numerically

[bitter steppe]

In the case of my most recent TRL ship it's got something like 52x Amp pumps, 6x Dilation, and 4 OC DC to punch a hole through the melted spot

[granite sapphire]

i think a bit more clarity on what exactly the pumps do in literal words would be good. Putting under the amplifier "Increases rate of heat application" and under the dilator "Increases area of heat application and shield power efficiency reduction"

[granite sapphire]

absolutely do add diminishing returns

[next urchin]

Do their descriptions not already essentially say that

I don't remember exactly what they say

[lusty zealot]

honestly maybe just have the debuff calculate as if there was only 1 output

[bitter steppe]

tbf to Celeste, because this is still the preview the pumps have gone through multiple iterations of how they work, imo the tooltips and stats have all been kept as up-to-date as possible and any missing stats have been pointed out and added

[lusty zealot]

they say it in wordy and not entirely intuitive ways, and the dilator doesn't mention the shield debuff

[granite sapphire]

mostly says it, but its a bit... wordy? i had to read it a couple times

and it doesnt mention dilation increasing the debuff strength on the pump, only in the stats themselves of the trl

[next urchin]

Maybe the description could be reversed to "increases the amount of heat applied to ship hulls by Thermal Lances by ..."

[granite sapphire]

it mixes what is ostensibly flavor text with the exact effect of the part

which is questionable imo

[lusty zealot]

honestly not even sure you need to mention hulls. keep it simple, just 'Increases heat application by...'

[next urchin]

Lots of parts do that, do they not?

[crimson osprey]

I'd also be fine with just having multiple TRLs not make the shield debuff weaker. The TRL debuff is already really strong. Having to have too many TRLs to yield the optimal debuff would be be a nerf

[next urchin]

The hull addition was specifically to differentiate thermal system heat and heat on ship parts

[lusty zealot]

ah, fair

[lusty zealot]

with notably less emphasis on the flavour text

[granite sapphire]

right, but the modular subparts generally mention their exact effects in their stats when you press alt. all amps/dilators do is say +100% amplification or whatever

[next urchin]

I can perhaps add the pump's effects on the TRL to the pump's stats

If that would be useful/clearer

[granite sapphire]

i think it would

[lusty zealot]

aye

[narrow owl]

Well, I guess saying that using primarly dil pumps turns the weapon into an anti-shield support would be a good start.

[granite sapphire]

i had to flip between the pumps and the trl's stats so much trying to work out what they actually mathematically do

[next urchin]

Mmm fair

There is the issue that the returns are not linear

[lusty zealot]

i also think reducing the... i guess technobabble in the pumps' descriptions would be a good call. it's cool, but information takes priority imo

[next urchin]

So it might be a bit misleading?

[crimson osprey]

@granite sapphire Real talk though, if TRLs end up requiring time to build up on shields AND you need, say 4 of them for the optimal debuff, you're gonna spend a massive amount of heat and energy for the debuff. Less turrets for a good debuff means a better heat/energy expenditure

[narrow owl]

Yeah

[granite sapphire]

well i think thats more reason to at least add any sort of reason to do that

[crimson osprey]

wat

[granite sapphire]

well like

if its already difficult and janky it shouldnt be actively further punished by a numerically weaker debuff

and be rewarded instead

[next urchin]

Also, making the debuffs both stack and accumulate is going to be challenging

[crimson osprey]

So what if the debuff always treated your system like you only have 1 TRL? no reward but no drawback to having multiple

[granite sapphire]

i dont think that should be the case but at least multiple trls are better at other things than debuffing shields

[narrow owl]

Yes. Make the technobabble be grayed out,

-# This pumps dilates spacetime itself inside the piping system to turn the TRL into an AOE monster

(I don't have it on hand lol)

[crimson osprey]

Going over 2 TRLs is already often counterproductive. Going over 4 is pointless

[granite sapphire]

would it be counterproductive if it didnt make ur shield debuff weaker?

[next urchin]

Hmm actually I think DotA does something similar...

[granite sapphire]

and should that be the case? should literally only running 1 trl be the only usecase?

[crimson osprey]

Against shields, it still would by way of pointlessly burning energy and heat for no gain. It just wouldn't be a worse debuff

[narrow owl]

I think it's fine, after all the weapon already takes like the most amount of space and investment out of any modular weapon, maybe tying with ion beams

[narrow owl]

A lot of games do that iirc.

[next urchin]

Oh okay maybe not

But more straightforward

Tbf DotA players complain about things "not making sense" a lot less than Cosmoteer players 😭

[lusty zealot]

it does clearly split the flavour and mechanics into different sentences

[crimson osprey]

Aye the turret numbers are fine, if the optimal debuff required 4 TRLS the heat/power requirements would explode

[next urchin]

So do the pumps

Or I guess not sentences

[narrow owl]

-# ||I love ogremagi it's so stupid to stack 2 hearts of (tarrasque ?) and be a gambling-stun-tank||

Hmm yes dota pretty clear on what abilites do what

[next urchin]

Bottom line is they can definitely be improved in terms of clarity, but I hope we can keep some flavour text

[bitter steppe]

Wow did flavor text in tooltips pretty well too

[narrow owl]

Yeah pust have been what I recalled, warcraft III maybe cuz I don't play wow

[lusty zealot]

yeah

[next urchin]

That flavour text is more abstract, though. Like it's not about the ability so much as a random fun fact about the subject of the ability

[crimson osprey]

Remember, if optimal debuffing is balanced around using multiple TRLs, the lower number TRLs will be worse. As is, I'm not convinced it's worth going over two. Increasing that number will result in a worse system overall

[next urchin]

Like, the pump flavour text is part of describing how it achieves the effect, whereas that summon one is irrelevant to how the ability functions

[next urchin]

It's pretty clear considering the systemic context. It used to be worse for sure when they had Like 3 different types of magic immunity and dispels

Also when a character had "dodges projectiles" and whether a skill was a projectile or not seemed entirely unrelated to whether it had a visual projectile

[narrow owl]

I think TRL scales very well with ship price, so making it into a "a single massive investment" weapon (one lance a lot of buffs) is fine as it gives it a peculiar weakness.

[bitter steppe]

just as an example that flavor text doesn't have to be directly accurate to how it functions if it can help explain it in a more thematic way

[crimson osprey]

Also, I think people are conflating "1 is best for debuffing shields" with "1 is best overall all the time forever". Currently, 1 is best for debuffing shields, but 2 is quite a bit better for everything else. If adding more turrets didn't reduce the debuff, multiple turrets would still be better overall. Heck, multiple turrets is often better as things stand

[bitter steppe]

Considering only the primary shield hit by the TRL gets the heat applied to it, having two TRLs means all shields debuffed and two of them burn

[narrow owl]

1 for support and 2 for damage seems good tbf

[crimson osprey]

2 is still better for debuffing non-shield parts, because heat reduces damage resistance of parts. 1 is ONLY ideal for debuffing shields

[narrow owl]

when you're running cannon build tbf that's exactly what you want

Shields are your biggest nemesis when running cannons because you rely a lot on running small amounts of crew (aka lose dps as time goes on).

Deck cannons are another deal

They more on the quality than quantity side of things

Frontal cannon builds usually rely on mobility to get to squishy parts, but shields are light and shield ships may be able to follow you in your flanking

So that TRL is kinda good as a last resort support if you absolutely have to face hug the shield ship

what you can see in the video I sent

#1370799036591898837 message

[rough dock]

Do thermal batteries need both sides connected?

[dark lily]

Nope!

Only pumps need both, for every other part the number of connections is completely irrelevant

[near flax]

i know the previous update was focused around painting but I have an idea for a decal, a fade that's just a full tile with 50% transparency

would allow for some interesting painting stuff

essentially giving access to more colors without adding additional layers

[next urchin]

As in by additively combining the 50% colour with the colours below?

[near flax]

yep

[lusty zealot]

having a transparency setting per-layer would also be great

my 'rusty' fringe style would defiinitely benefit

[lusty zealot]

or even per decal actually

[next urchin]

Decals seem to individually store their colours, so it's probably technically possible

[lusty zealot]

optimal

[rough dock]

Typical MRT enjoyer.

[narrow owl]

The new drag equation is riduculous and frankly an unfun way to balance the game. UL are a problem in pvp but this blob of engines goes 152 cold and 162 hot (OC). This is like... I could go 150 with a hauler before MRT were a thing. I think the balance council should examine what overclocks brought to the game against UL (DC sniping, OC railguns, new TRL), the faster projectile speed in practice that I think should stay even if the speed changes are reversed, and reconsider the drag equation change. Not only does it take twice as long to accelerate, but now every single one of my fast ships just got neutered, and I'm just sad.

I didn't realise how bad it was until I started to play my old ships and revamping them

[lusty zealot]

the council and devs are looking into and discussing things relating to drag and speed in general

i will note that OC rails and TRL are both not as good as you might think against ultralights, as OCrails are hard to hit vs fast-moving and agile things, and TRLs take a while to get effective damage onto a ship (especially a shielded one). though their shield debuff is very handy i suppose

[narrow owl]

If you guys can somehow find a way for UL to be less maneuvrable but keep ships as fast (or at least nearly as fast) as they were it would be amazing

[narrow owl]

A ship that invests purely in TRL can heat up shields pretty quick, since UL use them pretty sparsely it's also going to be expensive to put a ton of exchangers to counter that.

#1370799036591898837 message

Since TRL are turreted weapons, and hitscan, they pretty good at keeping the beam on target for long period of times

UL are essentially on a timer

[lusty zealot]

that assumes that the target stays within range and presents the same shields to the TRL for a substantial period of time

[narrow owl]

That's why staying mobile enough is important

But alternatively you still got OCDC

[lusty zealot]

which rotate slowly meaning it can be difficult to get a shot off, and are only one weapon type

[narrow owl]

and OCrails may not be easy to aim, but you're guaranteed to screw up something important on an UL if you hit like once

I think that makes it a pretty fair matchup

Can you hit me vs can I dodge you

[lusty zealot]

i'm not denying that even without speed changes meltdown offers a decent bit of anti-UL stuff, it's just that like. people shouldn't be forced to use the anti-UL stuff to have a chance vs them

[lusty zealot]

not being hit is already the main defence of ULs, and with OC LS they can conceivably take a hit or 2 from an OCrail if they take it on a concentrated-defence area

[narrow owl]

I agree that's why the relatively increased projectile speed should stay

Maybe the hitscan heavy blaster could return too ?

I like the explosive blaster, but I feel like that's something that would make more sense on a cannon

doesn't really fit the precision thingy

[lusty zealot]

even with that i think some degree of speed downscaling is still in order, though not to the degree of currently

[lusty zealot]

it's not actually explosive

[narrow owl]

Ik

I like both the AOE and the Hitscan heavy blaster

What about this : HB is hitscan but gains a piercing effect. It means the hitscan goes on for 2 meters after hitting a part and deal full damage to everything hit. That keeps the AOE thing AND the hitscan

While also being a bit less destructive

[lusty zealot]

not sure about having both be hitscan tbh, feels like it homogenizes things a bit much. and having penetration might overlap too much with cannons, even if it's a different mechanism for penetration

[narrow owl]

it's not penetration, it's piercing. No matter what, 2 meters into the ship it will take damage

It's just like currently it's not an explosion, it's AoE

[lusty zealot]

fair, but it does still turn out to be a similar effect. plus, people already do have issues with the aoe bypassing shields, and something like this would probably be even more egregious in that effect

it's a neat idea but i'm not sure if it'd work out

[narrow owl]

Not really, the AoE is 2 meters radius (not diameter), and I suggest a 2 meter piercing. Would bypass shields just as much, no more no less

[lusty zealot]

if you do have more ideas do feel free to suggest, people obviously aren't too happy with the current implementation

[narrow owl]

the piercing would be less devastating as instead of hitting everything in a 2 meter radius circle (stripping a lot of armor behind shields) it would only hit a line

[light stratus]

what is a UL again?

[narrow owl]

Ultralight

[light stratus]

oh super mobility aight

[narrow owl]

MRT block usually protected with shields and armed with nukes, but I've seen some wielding ions and DCs

[lusty zealot]

not necessarily MRT, some also use huge thrust

post-meltdown, there've been a decent amount of OCLT ones as well

[narrow owl]

This setup is supposed to drain 7.11 power a second yet it completely empties the OCLR

It's not wasted either

the crew is pretty efficient at this surprisingly

The reactor straight up doesn't produce enough power

[regal plume]

Is the listed power drain of dilators/amplifiers per connected thermal lance? 🤔

[narrow owl]

what ?

[regal plume]

I'm wondering if the number that shows up in the UI when you mouse over a dilator is the amount it drains or the amount it drains per heat gun thingy

[narrow owl]

Doesn't seem so, the amps take 5 second to drain a battery, so 0.2/s

I think it's the reactor's being troublesome

[lusty zealot]

pump power use is multiplied by TRL count on the system, pretty sure

[narrow owl]

Gif editor says about 3 seconds to drain a battery, so seems about right

It's misleading it's not mentionned anywhere in the tooltips

I kinda assumed the pumps would divide their effects equally between beams

Also to further say that the drag equation change is bad and mrt are still a problem, It took me 4 seconds to do a 180 and go back to full speed. MRT should lose rampup a loooot faster.

[next urchin]

They used to do that. It was bad

(At least I think they did for a very short period)

[tranquil wedge]

MRT have actually been performing really badly in pvp because of their rampup

[last breach]

[plucky fossil]

the problem is that they are about as efficient as normal ships - the small reactor builds of old were not and were more balanced

[hollow gull]

Z_THETA_Z said that the OC heavy lasers are not explosive, although they are aoe, what is the distinction between the two? I would think that mechanically the two are interchangeable

[bitter steppe]

They deal splash damage in an area rather than slices the way explosions are coded

[hollow gull]

is there a picture or video that explains this?

that's very interesting

[hard orbit]

The biggest thing seems to be splash do at least the listed damage. It does more damage if more parts/shield are in is area of effect. Explosions do at most the listed damage. They do less if they aren't completely surrounded by targets.

[hollow gull]

thank you

[plucky fossil]

they also do not deal 50% less damage to shields (shield damage is hardcoded instead) and are not stopped extra by armor

[plucky fossil]

@mellow barn are you aware of the reason that heat beam is lockable

[granite sapphire]

if you want a gameplay reason, its often advantageous with locked ion cores and the likes of core weapons

guarantees the trb always hits the shields the ions are hitting

since theres no ramping or deramping on the debuff its usually optimal to just lock them to the beam if ur running pure dilators

[hollow gull]

it is quite nice because it will just aim at middle of enemy ship alongside the other locked weapons, especially if you have more than one ship to control

when doing some battles in creative, i found that ai would often aim the beam in a different spot to locked chainguns, so locking beam really helped

[plucky fossil]

that is true but i am asking why it was implemented only for it

[narrow owl]

Introduce crew limit to pvp

[hollow gull]

introduce me to pvp 😎

[plucky fossil]

i will be available in 20ish min probably

ping if itnerested

[deft tartan]

he's gonna wear the razer krakens with kitty ears for that one

[hollow gull]

might get a chance to later this evening

[regal plume]

as someone with no PvP experience I'm happy to play either of you 😅
@plucky fossil

[hollow gull]

that would be really cool

[carmine heron]

I can join too tbh, I got nothing better to do rn (or today for that matter)

[orchid raven]

I could also join

[tranquil wedge]

Always nice to see some new sacrifices people trying out pvp

[hollow gull]

the fellowships of the trash

[deft tartan]

heat beams you cutely

[carmine heron]

ok lol, I have a game open

its elim btw

[hollow gull]

30 min okay?

[carmine heron]

ye

[regal plume]

damn, the wife is calling me away for dinner prep 😢

[hollow gull]

what time works?

[regal plume]

for me... 1 hour and 15 mins from now

[hollow gull]

we can play for long enough that you could hop in

[hollow gull]

ready

[carmine heron]

im in lobby waitin

[hollow gull]

I'm John in lobby

[mellow barn]

Probably to make it easier to line up with locked prisms

[regal plume]

The Meltdown PvP was awesome 😄

first time PvPing

design validated

[hollow gull]

that was a lot of fun

[regal plume]

Still can't believe I repeatedly lost to silly piloting errors 😅

Meltdown equipment is a huge power boost

[bitter steppe]

learning to pilot in pvp and playing against other players is totally different than career AI, especially learning direct control

[regal plume]

What even is direct control?

[bitter steppe]

it'd where you directly control your ship, instead of clicking to move you can use WASD

[regal plume]

Oooooh

[bitter steppe]

and mouse control to aim as well

[regal plume]

That would have been helpful

[bitter steppe]

but sometimes it's still better to just let AI aim for you

[regal plume]

What did you think of my design Anthrax?

Seemed to melt enemy ships very quickly

[bitter steppe]

the one i remember fighting was pretty tanky, it was tough to get through those shields

[regal plume]

I spent far too long not aiming at your ship due to lack of direct control...

[plucky fossil]

why not add the function to everything?

[mellow barn]

I think that's the plan long-term

[pale python]

[torpid harbor]

Hey everyone! Been a while.

I just realized something: Career mode would need some tweaking. Loadup screen should have the option of having and not having meltdown ships available as enemies, or otherwise there should be star systems that contain or not contain meltdown ships. Otherwise, it’s all too easy for beginners (aka 60-90% of total playerbase, it’s easy to get biased when the discord leans heavier towards Cosmoteer enthusiasts) to get demolished by a well-designed meltdown ship.

That, or meltdown ships would need to almost always be smaller than the credit value of a similar vanilla ship (in career mode). Probably would help game performance too

[pale python]

ships with meltdown features will be heavily leant into a separate faction i think

[torpid harbor]

ah, that’s perfect

[pale python]

its basically imperium situation, plus they would never spawn in the first nodes

[torpid harbor]

I can’t imagine imperium getting even more buffed by this, but yeah I’m also down to see imperium use this in later levels too

[faint linden]

is there any way to unlock pipes etc in career at the moment? Thanks

[torpid harbor]

I wouldn’t be opposed to smaller overloaded straggler pirates that are in [4-9] star systems, they’d be a nice immunization shot to the possibility of something larger in other systems

[torpid harbor]

can we not buy the blueprints? if that’s the case, maybe a workaround can be to make a starter ship with some of the parts you want

[faint linden]

yes thank you this worked

[lusty zealot]

pretty sure everything meltdown's currently available from the start without needing blueprints

[plucky fossil]

yipee

[plucky fossil]

currently no because everything comes for free to facilitate testing and because it hasn't been done yet, but in the future each individual overclock will need to be bought as wel

[remote charm]

10m career barge incoming

when thermal doesnt lag the game so bad

[cerulean hound]

i feel like the heat exchanger should look less "space time vortex" and more "radiator fins", it looks kind of goofy and not really fit to the rest of the game to me right now

[twilit matrix]

I agree.

[pale python]

i like it

higher tech solution to venting out heat

[rough dock]

I just noticed that heat exchangers will cool half of a room and let the other half burn down if their aura only covers half.

I just assumed the room had a heat pool as a whole. I had some factories that were tricky to pipe up that I was hoping to cool with echangers, but that is not happening.

That also means defensive heat exchangers are weaker than I thought.

[pale python]

yeah its specifically pulling away hull heat so it does'nt really reach far

[twilit matrix]

Wow...

[twilit matrix]

I love it.

[pale python]

explodives

[tulip nebula]

"Power of the sun" ahh push

[twilit matrix]

And that is why you make sure that your ship doesn't chain.

[prisma dock]

...What is even happening? Are you flinging a reactor explosion PAST enemy shields from outside conventional weapon ranges???

[lusty zealot]

not just flinging the explosion

straight up flinging the reactor through the ship

[gloomy raft]

YES!

[vocal trout]

pretty sure this is forcibly adding a new chain

[narrow blade]

are oc tractor beams meant to keep doing the weird overcharging effect if they are destroyed while overcharging

ghosts are real guys

[narrow owl]

kablouiee

[tame comet]

"whuh... whys it so hot?"

[tranquil cape]

leftover radiation

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone New Meltdown preview!

Features:

• Added structure variant of the Heat Pipe

Balance:

• Thermal Resonance Lance:
  • Added missing Amplification Exponent to shield heating calculation
  • Now explosively releases stored heat on death
• Fire:
  • Crew will now apply Fire-Foam for a minimum of 7.5 seconds, regardless of fire size.
  • Increased the duration of Fire-Foam applied for a full size fire (20→30)
• Heat:
  • Increased diffusion (spread) speeds to ~3.3x (0.003 → 0.01)
  • Increased constant dissipation (0.05→0.5/s)
  • Increased fire size lower bound (0→10%)
  • Increased fire chance lower bound (0→5%)
• Large Cannon (Overclocked) - reduced shrapnel base fire chance (10%→3%)
• Tractor Beam (Overclocked):
  • Reduced Overload pulse force (200,000→50,000)
  • Increased Overload pulse heat generation (5000→12,500)
• Thermal Canister Missiles:
  • Reduced missile count (3→2) NOTE: sprites were not changed
  • Increased parts per missile (4→5)
  • Increased missile part cost (8→12)
  • Increased heat per missile (7000→7500)
  • Now explosively releases stored heat on death
• Thermal Canister Factory:
  • Adjusted resource costs (overall increase)
  • Part production now uses copper and sulfur
• Huge Thruster (Overclocked):
  • Reduced max power usage (450→300)
  • Reduced max heat generated (700→550)
• Boost Thruster (Overclocked):
  • Increased boost heat factor gain per battery (15%→20%)
  • Increase boost base heat factor (150%→175%)
• Heat Pipe - increased cost (200→300)
• Heat Pipe Crossing - decreased cost (500→300)
• Thermal Battery:
  • Increased cost (2,000→3,500)
  • Now explosively releases stored heat on death
• Radiator - increased cost (8,000→10,000)

Other:

• Fixed Ion Prisms not lighting up / exploding when firing overclocked beams
• Improved tool-tips
  • Made tool-tips scrollable when exceeding their allowed height
  • Added a toggleable second tool-tip pane for overclock stats
• Fixed PenetratingHit bullets not accounting for hit ship velocity
• Blueprint-mode toggle changes are now only applied when “MAKE IT SO” is clicked
• Fixed crash when deconstructing heat-containing parts with “I Hate Crew Construction” but not “I Hate Salvaging”
• Build Toolbox stat toggle button states are now persistent through settings
• Removed useless “Overloading Tractor Beam” hotkey entry
• Fixed right-clicking Lance Pump parts in build mode failing to select them
• Added missing destruction VFX to Meltdown parts

[static plinth]

wow

[pale python]

interesting

hell yeah

[unique orchid]

structure pipes sounds neat

[tranquil cape]

Thermal Battery:

Increased cost (2,000→3,500)
aw really?

[olive thistle]

no more LT spam ships lol

[eternal ibex]

LC nerf thank youuuuuuuuu

[carmine heron]

oh my ships

[grizzled sentinel]

No oc large thruster nerf?? 😞(but balance changes are very good)

[carmine heron]

my poor ships

[olive thistle]

ack, that radiator is expensive

[tranquil cape]

im wondering why the heat battery change was needed

[olive thistle]

10k each?

[pale python]

you know what that means
fish

huh

[grizzled sentinel]

Idk heat is just op

[tacit peak]

Sooooo

whats the new variant

[olive thistle]

i think overall, they want to make OC a sidegrade instead of mandatory, like how it rn is

[pale python]

guess we gotta always define ReturnToStorage = false now
not a problem tbh

[tranquil cape]

now heavily reduces the effectiveness of useing them instead of radiators for more longentivity instead of 100% upkeep (aka constant overheating risk you gotta look out for)

[regal plume]

Oof, the thermal battery explosive heat release kills some of my designs 😄

[eternal ibex]

I love that heat pipe crossings and normal pipes are the same cost now, that's so nice for building parallel pipes without infinite connections between them or spending thousands of extra credits on them

[tranquil cape]

heat battery its self cant sustain overclock though

[coarse spindle]

Nooo my perfectly priced tier two ships

[grizzled sentinel]

Bro it's preview not pre building😀

[coarse spindle]

Now I'm confident making an oc tier two career ship is almost impossible, at least if you include a hyperdrive

Not that it matters too much I do agree with the balance change

Just sad to see my ships caught in the crossfire

[regal plume]

Any downside to always using crossings where there's no turns? 🤔

[pale python]

[fickle patrol]

Door cost I think

[grizzled sentinel]

80% speed

[regal plume]

What's the t2 limit?

[pale python]

i'm not sure about this

[eternal ibex]

Not really, the roof texture is a bit choppier though

[pale python]

hmmm

[fickle patrol]

I mean it’s 80% speed vs 0% speed

[coarse spindle]

75k

[regal plume]

Are crossings cheaper than regular corridors now?

[grizzled sentinel]

They have less hp idk

[pale python]

no why would they be

[languid basin]

No balancing for the deck cannon?

[grizzled sentinel]

But normal are just looking better

[fickle patrol]

Most important part tbh

[vague dew]

i prefer this. also whats the thing right next to the CR?

[pale python]

modded ignore that

[regal plume]

Fitting a hyperdrive on 75k seems hard in general...
But I reckon I can adapt my Plonkers to have one and thus make a viable t2 OC ship 😄
OC light blasters need only a single radiator

[unique orchid]

nice reactor and ship

[narrow owl]

was kinda busted tbh

For the tournament, I said it in #tournament-announcements , I'll be using pre-update prices so you don't have to send me an updated ship

[pale python]

Hold alt to scroll and Press Ctrl to toggle overclock Are amazing but stats always showing is throwing me off and is more eye movement to look all the way up to see part description

[coarse spindle]

Hmm, perhaps hiding three buttons somewhere around the build menu or in the desc itself that allow you to toggle between the three would be good

[pale python]

"huh i wonder what this part is on the enemy ship"
wall

[stuck roost]

I still have a problem with the game being still loading after more than 5 minutes

[pale python]

i mean, ctrl and alt is already being used to modify it so its already 2 buttons

[olive thistle]

OHHHH I DIDN'T CATCH THAT
thats a very welcome change for sure

[compact ibex]

Why ?

[olive thistle]

because HT got a decent heat reduction

[pale python]

huge thruster better than before

[olive thistle]

so its no longer a no-brainer to pick LT every time

[woven aurora]

Octb Nerf noooo

[olive thistle]

ive actually never even played against OC TB

how strong was it in practice?

[eternal ibex]

don't worry it's still broken at launching projectiles

unaffected in my testing actually, lmao

[coarse spindle]

Rough idea

[olive thistle]

i honestly liked it, the clips of people yeeting railgun projectiles into themselves was funny

[eternal ibex]

my nuke mop still works i'm so happy

[woven aurora]

It wasn't very good at all, more of a disorienting gimmick

[coarse spindle]

Click between them to toggle the shown content

[polar knot]

YES overclocked tractor beams buff

[tranquil cape]

i could see it needing a small price increase but this one is almost doubling it

[compact ibex]

Only the pulse got nerfed

[pale python]

what actions would you do to have it stay so you can click said buttons

[coarse spindle]

Wait

[pale python]

[coarse spindle]

Utter brain fart

[carmine heron]

all of my t2s are now t3 and my t3s are t4

;-;

[tranquil cape]

very important to have the OC displayed at the same time as normal stats to compare them

[coarse spindle]

Then maybe have those buttons small and hidden like the eye button for paint?

[compact ibex]

Oh okay it's more "welcome back ht spam"

[woven aurora]

Anyone have a screenshot of the new structure pipes?

[coarse spindle]

Maybe the oc desc could show up or down arrows next to the changes stats

[wild breach]

how does one try the meltdown update preview?

[grim gyro]

aww

i guess its for the better

[pale python]

this stats update technically made something i was doing unavailible now but with enough line breaks should be good

[grim gyro]

the price changes are a pain

[pale python]

not really

[eternal ibex]

they still didn't nerf projectile flinging so that still works btw

just add an extra thermal battery or smth and it works fine

[pale python]

OVERLOAD_FORCE = 50000
OVERLOAD_BULLET_FORCE = 10000

[woven aurora]

On steam: properties> betas and enter code previewpreview

[eternal ibex]

But projectiles are still light as crap in my testing so they get yeeted just as hard

[wild breach]

cheers butter

[pale python]

yeah 😢

[light stratus]

ok so OC LC deserved that nerf

but wow a 70% reduction in fire chance

probably still really good tho

[remote charm]

yeah

[light stratus]

also the reduction in cost for pipe crossing makes sense cause you have to buy 200 in doors anyway

like, its 300 for pipe, 200 for doors, why was it 500 in the first place?

[remote charm]

it was kinda ridiculous to have 2 or 4 large cannons at the front of a ship and the enemy instantly succumbs to fire

[light stratus]

especially because OC LCs can go through armour

the shrapnel can pass through 1-2 layers of armour

[remote charm]

yeah

[stoic blade]

How come the new heat pipe structure lists "crew speed" as one of its stats when crew can't walk on it?

[static meteor]

classic moment

[light stratus]

probably cause whoever added them copied code from the passage version

[eternal ibex]

The return of crew walking on structure 🤭

[plucky fossil]

i liked it lik that :( gave very heavy incentive to not use it a lot

[light stratus]

uhh the logistical strain and the fact that it's still more expensive (300+200 for doors instead of 300) are incentive enough

[tranquil cape]

heat pipe crossing without doors 🧠

[light stratus]

why use it then?

[plucky fossil]

logistical strain is marginal and it was fairly cheap for how easy it made things

[plucky fossil]

graphics

no side connection

[remote charm]

alternate them for fun

[light stratus]

its like a corridor except its half the speed

thats pretty bad

[plucky fossil]

no it's not

did you read the stats

[remote charm]

its 80% isnt it

[light stratus]

is it the same speed as a corridor?

[narrow blade]

now why does this happen

[pale python]

overclock off

[plucky fossil]

speed decrease is negligible logistically in most cases

[regal plume]

I'm sad about the new structure pipes
Not being able to fire through pipes was an interesting design constraint 😦

[pale python]

i hope the alt to scroll may become real in parttoggles

[pale python]

wdym

huh youre right it doesnt have a non-structure collider

[remote charm]

huh

[next urchin]

It's to avoid crashes with crew construction off but salvaging still on. Found it because the game was trying to drop heat nuggets

[pale python]

i think

[tranquil cape]

i have never come across a situation where i needed to build heatpipes infront of weapons though

[light stratus]

you probably don't want to be placing it infront of direct weapons but its useful for ion cores

and if you are running non TC Missiles

[regal plume]

Ion beam ships in particular

[remote charm]

now instead of making 20m oc ships i will be making 22m oc ships

[light stratus]

if you want to use it for graphics, then the equal cost is great

[plucky fossil]

true

[granite sapphire]

huh, why pipe+radiator cost nerfs???

any particular rationale?

[next urchin]

That's unintended. The art/part were made together and given structure stats. I changed most of them but didn't remember the collider, I guess 😅

[granite sapphire]

oh, so theyre supposed to have full collision??? lol

[next urchin]

Yeah. Would be kinda busted if you could just have nigh invincible pipes 👀

They should behave (collision-wise) like prisms

[pale python]

[granite sapphire]

whats the point of em? aesthetic?

[next urchin]

Yeah

[pale python]

yea

[granite sapphire]

kk

[pale python]

maybe different weight... hmmm

[granite sapphire]

are they lighter than corridor pipes?

[near flax]

Nice

[remote charm]

i imagine they should be like 75% weight or whatever

[next urchin]

Hopefully a reduction in the viability/ease of 100% overclocked ships

The vision has always been a mix of OC and non-OC

[remote charm]

thought so

[pale python]

same cost, less weight, still unwalkable
ignoring aesthethics why use the normal pipe

[next urchin]

A mechanical advantage would undermine their purpose as an aesthetic choice, I think

[granite sapphire]

was the intent not that overclocking is optimal in most cases at the highest level? increasing the cost of radiators and pipes shifts this equation at all levels, so having anything overclocked is less worthwhile

[pale python]

[remote charm]

ok that makes sense

[next urchin]

Also not intended to be less weight

[stuck roost]

How come coridoors are darker in dev mode?

[remote charm]

i read that as a hypothetical

is it less weight ?

[next urchin]

Overclocking, yes. Having 100% overclocked ships, no.

[pale python]

that is really weird it shouldnt be

[next urchin]

Overclocking should be a decision you make to parts of your ship that it benefits the most, rather than just the only way you use parts

[pale python]

double heat generation of everything, it should fix that (joke)

[granite sapphire]

im not sure you can really achieve that with pure cost nerfs to cooling, as that makes overclock less worthwhile mathematically overall. we'll have to see

[next urchin]

I noticed something weird with that when I was testing the thermal battery explosions

[granite sapphire]

cost nerfs dont discriminate between situations

[remote charm]

if devs dont like oc deck cannon for instance just make it produce a quintillion heat per shot

easy to stop people

[pale python]

people find ways

[remote charm]

alpha oc dc wall

[granite sapphire]

sure itll be less convenient/easy to build fully oc ships but it wont make it any less optimal than non fully oc ships as long as oc remains worthwhile in any way mathematically

[light stratus]

cost balances them in pvp but not so much in career

[granite sapphire]

considering most ocs are still just generally incredibly powerful buffs not situational benefits

[sleek flax]

That's intentional, corridor lights and other components lights turn off when a ship lacks enough control points, and some other parts shut down when the ship is in a Junk state

[next urchin]

Ahh, right, I forgot about the corridor lights

[stuck roost]

Was that the case before the meltdown update?

I must confess I never noticed it anywhere until now

[random summit]

I'm afraid OC parts will still need nerfs, e.g. shields. Currently they gain 3x shield per battery, right?

[sleek flax]

its new

[next urchin]

Not even the case before I merged it in 4 hours ago

[stuck roost]

Well that's an amazing feature then!

[granite sapphire]

oc shields are diffcult because while powerful they can be countered relatively easily

[stuck roost]

Thank you for your work Kroom, ships feel more alive now

[sleek flax]

not enough control points

[plucky fossil]

why pipe nerf though? their main downside imo is the space and they're already fairly expensive

[pale python]

whadahel darkness is real

[light stratus]

huh... apparently you have a 54% chance that the OC LC starts no fires at all (did math)

[sleek flax]

junk ship

[next urchin]

That would be highly dependent on where you're shooting

[light stratus]

previously the chance of no fire was 0.12

[light stratus]

isn't the fire chance per shrapnel?

[next urchin]

Are you accounting for the penetration?

Per shrapnel per hit

[light stratus]

ahh

how many times do they hit?

[next urchin]

They have 25 penetration, so lots of chances to cause fire depending on how squishy the things in front of them are

[light stratus]

hmm

[next urchin]

Is corridor 1 pen resist? hypothetically 25 per shrapnel, but the chance scales with the remaining pen

[random summit]

What do you mean? EMP? Perhaps I should check multiplayer huh

[light stratus]

though it is still a huge reduction, assuming each shrapnel only hits once you go from 12% chance of no fire to 54%

OC LC deserved it

[next urchin]

It never only hits once

Obviously if you hit armour the fire chance is null

[light stratus]

previously it only needed one

does OC LC still go through armour btw

cause that was a thing it did

[next urchin]

Same penetration

[plucky fossil]

pretty sure it's 0

[pale python]

darkness is pretty interesting

[next urchin]

Just wait for the next patch: zombies

[next urchin]

OC is just generally strong. Making it more expensive to cool things means less money on other parts

It's not supposed to perfectly balance anything, but it should be a step towards the ideal

[light stratus]

ok thats a lot more balanced. This is 36 rounds of OC LC fire

[pale python]

there are now 6 parts that are priced at 10k 😛

[plucky fossil]

i like cheap pipes but i'm not sure why

[cerulean prairie]

The funny thing is that Kroom added that like a year ago and then I forgot to merge it into the main branch.

[coral cove]

get it over with and make everything 10k

[plucky fossil]

it was one of the first thing i noticed when i started

[light stratus]

what else have you forgotten to merge?

[pale python]

something like "the challange is venting out and storing" ?

[next urchin]

The Zombies

[cerulean prairie]

Pretty sure that was it. I noticed it when I was going through all our version control branches.

[light stratus]

"this space plague is the worst!" - crew

[plucky fossil]

and also since pipes intrinsically are already weakpoint, it lets you put longer stretches to boost far away and maybe get pipe cut

[next urchin]

If they need to, pipes will go back down in cost. All remains to be seen

[vocal valley]

lower thermal batteries to 3k 🙏

[pale python]

dev graphics 👀

[light stratus]

ooooo

[next urchin]

Ah, heat8, my beloved

[coral cove]

Heat buffering 🔥

[light stratus]

i no thats

goddamnit

[pale python]

why was heat6 afraid of-

[next urchin]

heat8, but in drag, because she ate

[pale python]

i already forgot what i was testing

[coral cove]

heat

[pale python]

actually it was darkness and stat scrolling

[coral cove]

😭

[pale python]

now that overclocked tab is a thing i think removing the redudnant (overclocked) is good

ion beam forgot to remove the overclocked stats lol

PD too

standard cannon too

[next urchin]

Whoops. There are a lot of overclocks, in my defence

[light stratus]

its only every single weapon and factory currently in the game

[pale python]

i definetly feel like the wall of stats might be overwhelming for new players? maybe? (source: it is a bit for me and i'm not a new player)

https://tenor.com/view/tinkering-tony-stark-tony-stark-jarvis-gif-24567852

[light stratus]

thats what a tutorial is for

[twilit matrix]

A wall of stats is intimidating regardless of tutorials.

Ideally, one would be able to navigate most of the game without walls of text - at least in my opinion.

I like the idea of having multiple pages in the hover screen - one for description, one for stats, and one for overclocked stats.

[pale python]

-# "let me try to play this game cosmoteer"
-# (25 minutes of tutorial) oh ok i understood nothing
even someone trying to start by testing out in creative would probably end up looking at all the numbers would be confusing

[light stratus]

well, you can navigate the game without walls of text. You have to access the stats intentionally, and what is displayed is required

[light stratus]

i mean, clearly, we don't actually have a proper tutorial setup

we have small "tutorial" popups but thats about it

[plucky fossil]

just have a setting to enable site part stats

unlock the same way advance ship command does

[pale python]

its great but i think a 'forced' tutorial would be bad

[light stratus]

an actual tutorial scenario that can be selected would be good

[plucky fossil]

noita spelllab....

[granite sapphire]

imo we should have voluntary interactive tutorials like in ftd

teaching logistics fundamentals and some game mechanics

[tranquil cape]

but why such a bad nerf for heat battery cost when it doesn't help much in OC sustainability?

[granite sapphire]

its a fair bit of work but its the best combination of unobstrusive/voluntary and actually teaching mechanics in depth

[pale python]

pressing alt could enable/disable like overclock
for scrollable ones, it only switches off if you tap it, instead of hold

and if it detects your mouse has scrolled in case of very short holds

[light stratus]

oh yeah we are still missing dps stat on OC SC

[plucky fossil]

dps stat on noninfinite penetration weapons is pretty useless

[light stratus]

ok but the increase in damage is a major reason to use OC SC over normal SC/LC

[stuck roost]

I would argue this isn't the case as only nerds play cosmoteer and atleast the tooltip is readable

[plucky fossil]

except some peop lhust like explosiosn

[pale python]

that

[stuck roost]

I did not got overwhelmed reading railgun accelerator tooltip at the time as each stats has a clear meaning and when they dont a short description is stated

And remember I'm a foreigner so reading is not my forte 😭 🙏

[light stratus]

speaking of tooltips, OC railgun doesn't display the % it gains

probably because you OC the actual launcher and not the accelerator

[plucky fossil]

i'd prefer a formula and graph compared to current

but current ok too

[granite sapphire]

holy shit, these cost nerfs dont play :/

[plucky fossil]

@next urchin is it intentional that er boost does not increase heat production? it makes thrust more than 100%

[plucky fossil]

100k

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-sad-sad-cat-cat-meme-gif-25617057

[granite sapphire]

i think i can cut this chat

no rebuild fr fr

[plucky fossil]

what is this

[granite sapphire]

peak logi dont question it

[plucky fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/aneurysm-hhhhomeboyyyy-kings-dark-tidings-saga-by-kel-kade-reaperleviathan-head-explode-gif-21578105

it probably is ngl

[granite sapphire]

literally everything is oc it needs to be like that

but yea logi on these sorts of setups is kinda weird

[light stratus]

that is not peak 😭

[granite sapphire]

im prolly gonna go down an ion and cut ers

[granite sapphire]

oh yeah well why does it uhhh burn down instantly when subject to damage output

what about that

[light stratus]

thats a con not a pro 😂

[granite sapphire]

working as intended

[summer cypress]

fire

literally

[light stratus]

this is how I do my ERs

OC ERs that is

im probably going to use them like this though

also wow this is 53k

[granite sapphire]

solid. i usually forego the walkways

unfortunately i think oc ers are even less worth now

with how heat inefficiency is even worse for ur ship now

[light stratus]

yup

I mean, huge thrusters got a heat efficiency boost

slight offset

[remote charm]

rahhhhhhhhhh i only work in heat inefficiency

i never directly connect pipes

[narrow blade]

my save game is taking suspiciously long to load rn

so apparently i cant really load my save game anymore?

thats fun

overclocked mrt is hella dissapointing

[vague aurora]

200000 > 50000
It's overloadover :c

[narrow blade]

there must be something im missing there

[pale python]

whar

[vague aurora]

Whar never changes 😔

[pale python]

girls who are wizards

[vague aurora]

||credit to erin for the joke||

[pale python]

erinneverfound