Meltdown Update Preview

[pale python]

At regular speed?

[carmine heron]

is it consistent or does something trigger it

[pale python]

Does it stop if it happens and you dont render it

[plucky fossil]

it happens even in the shart cloud

it's just when it turns on

[lusty zealot]

hell yes another OC inspired by a thing from project wingman

[near flax]

it's not possible to fan OC rails but they are still very strong

[plucky fossil]

what

where are you getting this information from

[near flax]

a mp match, I accidentally forgot a word

[pale python]

Undershoot and fan again maybe

[flat skiff]

i managed to get a few fans, but u need to be close to the ship, and against a wider ship

[coarse spindle]

Cmon we're dealing with orange what did you expect

[pale python]

Ok so hear me out

[lusty zealot]

(:

[pale python]

I would make oc rails

Hitscan

[coarse spindle]

I am so happy with the totally not cordium missiles

[pale python]

Similar to factorio railgun
Lock on, charge up, fire

[lusty zealot]

my direct inspiration for suggesting an OC for flak was PW F59's flak, and my suggestion seems to have been the main inspiration for its current implementation so (:

[coarse spindle]

Yeah saw that as well

[cerulean prairie]

I'm sure we'll have patch notes for the final stable release (delta between previous stable and new stable), but yeah no notes for the initial preview build.

[lusty zealot]

i thought so, good call

[near flax]

no patchnotes we die like crew

[lusty zealot]

what, quickly and with a wilhelm scream?

[near flax]

exactly

[pale python]

Instantly with no ceremony by a stray cannon shot

[coarse spindle]

Also, unless they got changed, I believe ion storms should be tied to OCing

To give them a bonus

Or maybe just to make them deal less dmg but heat you up

Tho for a bonus maybe radiators could be way more effective in them

[median crow]

radiator bonus is interesting but i think there should be a separate heat cloud area distinct from ion storms

right now storms are too much of an obstacle and i'd like to see something that makes damage risky without being inevitable and needing your whole ship designed around surviving like the sun or ion storm

[near flax]

thermal clouds would be awesome

[coarse spindle]

We do have the rod already

[median crow]

there's an #1019739575683399840 thread about heat clouds, message links aren't working for me right now

[lusty zealot]

ehh, imo they should be separate

a separate heat cloud would fit better i think

[flat skiff]

i think a dense cloud would probably radiate stuff better

[lusty zealot]

radiate no, but convect and possibly conduct yes

[pale python]

I could post my nebula density suggestion that i totally didnt forget to post after making concept art

Mmaaaybe The effects could work well with the new scaling systems but I'm not sure

[coarse spindle]

Either I have schizophrenia or you have dementia because I swear I saw a nebula density suggestion already

[pale python]

You are in that discussion thread i just didn't make a post about it

[summer cypress]

The overclock description says it increases unreliability, is that just flavor text or does it actually do something?

[lusty zealot]

pretty much just flavour text to say 'things can go wrong if you don't manage it'

wording can probably be changed

[summer cypress]

ahhh

[livid thunder]

should probs say, like,
"if managed poorly can lead to major damage."

or smth along those lines

[plucky fossil]

i think it's pretty bad flavor text :( it makes me think that even if i cool it it could go wrong

[pale python]

missile phasing save (just restock the brick ship on the left, ignore loaded mods)

[rain sky]

My shield design

so far no issues on my end

[lusty zealot]

yeah

[lusty zealot]

agreed

[rain sky]

135k health on big shields is huge

I love it!

Also when large reactors is on overcharge increased to 4 energy parts why shouldn't the medium one be increased to 3?

[pale python]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rain sky]

did anyone figure out a better big shield design?

It's quite the brain puzzle

[pale python]

part of the fun!

[lusty zealot]

used to be the case in testing, not exactly sure why it was changed. i think to better differentiate the reactor overclocks?

[rain sky]

also what's the new setting "sharpnel" on cannons?

[carmine heron]

frag shell pretty much

[plucky fossil]

i think because then overclocked mr and lr would be too similar

[lusty zealot]

yeah

[rain sky]

well it would be an odd alternative for the even one

but understandable

[regal plume]

a bit of OC on most things seems like such a big step up in threat level...
2x missile production speed, 2x missile production efficiency, 2.5x thrust, getting away with a small reactor and autonomous PD all for 34k of heat management?
The thrusters alone would be 36k! The core another 25k, the missile fac and storage 20k...
It's at least 25% savings.
This example seems to beat most of the current ~600k level roster
Non-OC ships are obsolete as it stands, you always want a bit of OC and some things you ALWAYS want OC (power capacitors, PD, ammo factories and smaller engines for example)
(presumably this is as intended?)

[flat skiff]

yeah meant that oops

[dense swan]

OC stuff is pretty strong, but it also does add size and cost (and another vulnerability) to the ship. Will be interesting to see where things land

[lusty zealot]

OC is definitely more effective at smaller scale

[plucky fossil]

75k dps

[regal plume]

the fact that some things like smaller thrusters, ammo factories and power capacitors seem completely obsolete in none-OC versions seems a bit off though 🤔

[plucky fossil]

plus heat missiles

capacitor has use - for factories

and other lower demand things

[flat skiff]

Vs ARE BACK ‼️

oh shit shieldless

[plucky fossil]

alpha too

i am burning down the metaphorical kitchen

[lusty zealot]

and the ship

[plucky fossil]

don't worry the crew are getting 500 each

very good compensation

that's 5 whole doors

[dense swan]

that's a lot of big blasters!

[granite sapphire]

i think its fair that refusing to interact with what will be a core game mechanic results in less effective ships

[tame comet]

i also agree.

with how much heat can totally change how you build a ship, itll likely be more complicated

a difference in skill

[dense swan]

It'll also be interesting to see the mechanic in a proper PvP fight, since if you go all in on heating and you lose a pipe somewhere you will have to quickly turn off the overclock

and the time between realizing something is cooking and a part going out can be really small

The other thing is heating is somewhat space intensive, and still a cost overhead. I think heavy blasters are 5k each, and a radiator + battery adds 10k?

[dark lily]

The new vulnerabilities and targets it introduces more than just going for reactors or control rooms is really fun and engaging. Can you assess cutting which pipe will cause the opponent to burn to death? Etc

[plucky fossil]

4 money despair

[plucky fossil]

you only get like 5 sec to assess and target with speed changes though :(

[dark lily]

Bro has never heard of picture in picture

[delicate vigil]

FYI, overclocked PD don't require power, they generate their own which is pretty cool

[tame comet]

i will be making a flak and pd spam with heat missiles to make the devs regret their life choices

[plucky fossil]

then you are targeting as you fight

[delicate vigil]

And I have yet to play with flak, looking forward to it lol

[dark lily]

Isn't that... the norm?

[dense swan]

I expect it to be pretty common to put radiators in the back so rear aspect missiles can be pretty funny

[rain sky]

Nah, power generation is good for better sustain and you have more time between deliveries on the pds. But having a power cells delivered is still better

[delicate vigil]

Ah, so the PD can't power itself forever then

[rain sky]

Well it can, it's just not very combat effective itself

As there are big power gaps

[plucky fossil]

is it? i always queue up all my targets before fighting and only manually target if there's an oppurtunity or something goes wrong

[rain sky]

But it helps you full auto pds for like 4 more seconds

Which is quite a difference

[flat skiff]

i would say that pip doesn't help too much, atleast rn theres a bit of info overload in finding where would cause the ship to burn to death

[regal plume]

Of course
And the heat and OC mechanics are great and cool to interact with
But I was under the impression that there was a design goal of keeping non-OC versions of things relevant
And while that seems to hold for most equipment, it does not for all

[rain sky]

One thing I'm missing in this update are blow off valves

So I can set the heat in difference regions of the ship

As for having united system on the ships, that stores energy into one part of the ship for incendiary missiles and the rest is sent into void

After a set value is exceeded it let's go

If it makes sense

A bit of heat management logic in simple terms

Or just the system it's made in. You could set like a "keep minimum heat" and excess would be sent off into void through the valves

Otherwise it makes the incendiary missiles at least for me Logisticaly a nightmare

[plucky fossil]

first finished overclock pvp ship

i could cut quite a lot of the crew

they're not really doing anything worth their cost

[dense swan]

the wedge my beloved

[regal plume]

How does this work without shields? Doesn't a deck gun brick blow it to bits?

[plucky fossil]

what is there that is worth blowing to bits

i'd be more annoyed by the knockback than the damage

(unless they target inteligently and oneshot me)

[tame comet]

good enough, welcome banshee to the pvp scene

[lusty zealot]

that likely does come down to this being still early in development and not having the best balance

[dense swan]

tested against a cabal ship, heavy blasters are love

[eternal ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/546229904488923145/1329443462105530470/heavylasersbeloved.gif

[granite sapphire]

that damage

[scarlet dew]

I feel like pipes should be able to be built outside of the ship, it would allow for some awesome looking builds

[lusty gulch]

thats what mods are for

[plucky fossil]

wdym outsidr? they already can be placed on the exterior

[lusty zealot]

visually exposed with no surrounding block, i think

[scarlet dew]

It generates hull around it

[lusty zealot]

there's a suggestion for it somewhere

here

[eternal ibex]

Agreed, at least in the form of a visual toggle to get rid of the surrounding block

Things like this have been done in mods before, can't be that hard to do

[scarlet dew]

Yeah, his suggestion is legit

Imagine having a big f you heat beam ship with parallel heat pipes running along the outside of the sides of the ship

It'd be like flying one of those engine-through-the-hood 80s muscle cars

[lusty zealot]

i'd definitely update [Rattlesnake](#sotd-submissions message) with that

[regal wharf]

did i miss something, the starting system seems really small in career

[scarlet dew]

Noice

Yo, overclocked railgun is off the rails

[next urchin]

Just as GodCeleste intended

They're perfectly accurate upper bounds, as long as you ignore CG and heat inefficiencies (ER/heat exchanger)

[plucky fossil]

oh i interpereted it more as in useful

[next urchin]

They will, but not yet

[scarlet dew]

This railgun's going through like 15 layers of armour per shot

[next urchin]

You can't put numeric constants in those fields, they only take component references sadly

Only if by "boring" you mean "they bore right through enemy ships". OC railguns are amazing!

Nothing except thermal parts should allow transfering heat through them. If any do, it's a bug. More likely you're misunderstanding what's going on, but maybe I missed a part when making sure they don't transfer through

OC railguns only stop when they've dealt all their damage. One large shield is 45,000 HP, isn't it? Those rails are like 3x over that

[weary sparrow]

OC big shields are 135k :v
the sum of both 300% rails would be if I am not wrong 120k. (20K*3 = 60k each, 60k X2 = 120k)

so with one shield (and the proper heat management oc) it is possible to stop a full charged OC double Rail with 15k to spare.

[next urchin]

If you have a fuck ton of small thrusters then yeah, expected, especially with lots of radiators or batteries. I haven't gotten around to another optimisation pass to batch heat generation calculations.

[next urchin]

Can't scale hitscan with the size of the rail, otherwise I would've had it change to hitscan at some length. Could do it with some toggled emitter shenanigans, but then also the vfx are not built for a beam

[pale python]

interesting

[next urchin]

Ur bad flavor text (it was written ages ago, most of the text in the update will probably change)

[scarlet dew]

How do you tell radiator efficiency?

[lusty zealot]

newest doohickey, the Waste Not

[next urchin]

Because then the medium just becomes a large. Size 4 battery isn't available outside of OC LR

[weary sparrow]

btw, wow, you are answering a lot of posts of this discussion, I never saw a dev team so engaged with its comunity xD

[scarlet dew]

It's a big update, I'm sure they're happy to see the engagement

[near flax]

the devs here are awesome

[next urchin]

I've been watching some of the community pvp with thermal stuff and it makes for really exciting fights. Self immolation risk adds a great new dynamic, at least from an observer's perspective.

[brisk lichen]

Where can I watch these?

[next urchin]

How is 4 credits even possible. Non rounded ammo stacks?

[brisk lichen]

The community PVP I mean

[next urchin]

Yeah, but OC shields have always been more thermally constrained than energy. They do need a nerf in terms of generating more heat, but I'd expect 120k worth of damage to be hard to buffer

[next urchin]

There's a line/numbers on the blueprint when you're holding a radiator in build mode

[near flax]

tidepool server

and excelsior

[next urchin]

I love the community, and I'm very excited to finally get to share the last year and a bit of my work with everyone!

[next urchin]

Oh I was just watching streams in a community server while working

[brisk lichen]

where are those?

[near flax]

#links

[scarlet dew]

OC deck cannons sound gruesome

[eternal ibex]

They are devastating

[scarlet dew]

Triple damage and double range? C'mon

[near flax]

and a lot more damage

[scarlet dew]

This update'll have me laying more pipe than Ron Jeremy

[eternal ibex]

The fire rate balances that a bit but in practice they are really OP

They used to be so powerful that they crashed the game 🤭

[scarlet dew]

I like making massive ships; the limited range of the deck cannons has impeded my usage of them, but with double range I can stack more of them in my gooey center

[eternal ibex]

Hell yes, and because of the much faster shot speed the opponents can't even dodge them

[scarlet dew]

What's Heat Applied (Pool) mean?

[lusty zealot]

total heat available to apply, i think

gets spread out over tiles it hits

[scarlet dew]

Oh, I just noticed OC batteries, that is the cat's pajamas!

OC PD is awesome too; you guys really thought up some dope effects for each system

[weary sparrow]

I swear that even if I try with all of my might I can not make small ships...I was planning to build a small Rail ship with only two rails...I blinked and this was born lol. (still in 'alpha' but the curse of big ships are engraved on my vein I guess...)

[scarlet dew]

Bah, a pox on small ship!

OC chaingun is frightening. Any thoughts on adding curved magazines? Maybe I could make a ammo brick that shoots lead lasers

[summer cypress]

probably too powerfull

overclocked boost thrusters can get power when boosting? :0

[scarlet dew]

How does the heavy cannon's shrapnel work?

[dense swan]

I believe the main shell will detonate into shrapnel based on proximity

the shrapnel seems to have a lot of pen, but the main shell has less HP than normal I think

[plucky fossil]

\👍

[plucky fossil]

the storage for heat missile :(

[dense swan]

1 credit per launcher tax

[next urchin]

wha - does that not happen with HE?

[vocal trout]

https://tenor.com/view/test-gif-2341822946696656132

heat exchangers:

[plucky fossil]

it does

it happens with everything resource related

other than some extremely specific combinations

[dusky gate]

is the preview more stable today than 3 days ago ? I was not able to test it much because it crashed very easy ( I have AMD CPU/GPU)

[lusty zealot]

yep

[tranquil cape]

the pvp default speed for this preview should be 1x speed due to the speed changes

[granite sapphire]

yeah default was left 1/2x

[tranquil cape]

also here's a super abomination of a ship i made with this preview

[granite sapphire]

???

[next urchin]

What exactly did you do to the lights? I can't really tell the difference

[tranquil cape]

is this about trying to understand how the ship works

[granite sapphire]

yeah

like whats the objective here

[tranquil cape]

lol

so basicly

it has all the deck cannons on overdrive

[plucky fossil]

it works \😭

the knockback is literally worse than tb

[tranquil cape]

they have a long cooldown and high power so it just spams rows of them

[plucky fossil]

(unless you get overpenetrated)

[granite sapphire]

oh i see

[tranquil cape]

the mechanic of turrets blocking other turrets would stop this normally

but i put explosive charges on the front 2 rows of deck cannons to blow them out so the row behind can fire immediately after

[pale python]

the images i kind of masked the weapon.png and gave it a bit of glow outside, and inside i bade it blue-ish with a gradient so it feels "hot" at the edges
the intended efffect is to not emphasize the rail's glowing moving line, instead giving the weapon.png a more visible light especially outside (compared to the light visual of the glowing bits moving when seeing the roof only)

the .rules i added the light effects to the loader (might not be a perfect implementation but does the job) and fixed some old names such as BulletEmitter (it was no longer present and wasnt really working)

well, could be adjusted

[dusky gate]

Can the heat pipes carry an infinite amount of heat or they have a limited capacity ?

[granite sapphire]

yes

[pale python]

infinite

[granite sapphire]

infinite heat

theyre like wires more

[dusky gate]

so... Star Trek EPS conduits, basically ^.^

[pale python]

the what now

[dusky gate]

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Electro-plasma_system In Star Trek, power is carried via some conduits, as plasma (Electro-Plasma System), there are no "wires", apparently humanity has evolved beyond metal cables

[next urchin]

Oh, the loader's emitter proxy isn't pointing to the correct component anymore?

[pale python]

yeah

EmitTrigger

was pointing to BulletEmitter instead of now being EmissionTriggered like the accelerator

if i understand it right (and testing seems to confirm)

[near flax]

trts arent being counted towards heat gen

[next urchin]

TRTs will need some additional (non-trivial) system improvements to be able to usefully contribute to heat generation

Though I might be able to get them to contribute in at least a basic way outside of blueprint mode

Hmm, nope, looks like that will have to wait for those improvements

[twilit matrix]

So from what I've been seeing so far: Thermal Resonance Turrets are used to produce heat, and the heat missiles are used to weaponize it. Is that correct?

When I was first hearing about this update, I thought that Thermal Resonance Turrets would be used to vent excess heat at things, requiring a heat buildup to power them, but I guess it's the other way around.

[grim gyro]

Does anyone know how long it might take for meltdown to reach stable?

[lusty zealot]

TRTs and overclocked parts create heat and TCMs (heat missiles) use it, yes

[coarse spindle]

Sure they're powerful, but I think instead of making the weapons a better version, OCing should make them into an alternate version (that's still powerful)

Rn it's merely a stat increase

[lusty zealot]

not really

the addition of charge-up time changes their use to essentially disallow fanning and make them not an immediate-punishment weapon

very much changes how it's used

[granite sapphire]

Solar Flare Mk4

this logi is absurd

all ions, 4 ls, all lt, factory are overclocked

[lusty zealot]

do those exchangers really sustain the heat from the engines?

[granite sapphire]

yes

exchanger buff doing great things

they feel about right now

[granite sapphire]

the ht arent overclocked

[cunning swift]

The routing on this is wild

Looks like you have some corridor left over from when the ions weren't routed through each other?

[granite sapphire]

oh youre so right

thats embarassing

ill fix it tmr im tired

weeeelll technically the corridors arent useless bc im using barracks with questionable assignments

[lusty zealot]

excellent

[granite sapphire]

im running an exchanger per lt essentially since the innermost are pipe fed

i actually dont know if i even need 2

but i assume i do

[lusty zealot]

think so

[cunning swift]

overclocked railgun modules seem to be consuming 0.25 batteries per shot instead of 0.5 I'm guessing this is not intentional?

[next urchin]

That's been fixed for the next patch

[rain sky]

Found a bug

when the game is paused and you move your creation it dissapears when no Control command is active

First one is when I'm still dragging. Second one is when I let go of it and stop dragging it

creative

Fog of war still stays at the old place and doesn't update

Lol it's own fog of war

when I unpause the game, the fog of war corrects itself

[ocean quail]

If this half-speed change is reverted, wouldn't this mean mere postponement since the reasons why it was implemented in the first place in the preview keep existing?

[lusty gulch]

for future mod use, could we get both systems (overclock & heat) as 2 separate files? so each set of components can be picked but not just both?

[coarse plaza]

I actually get this in regular vanilla as well.

So its not a meltdown thing (or that would be really weird)

[rain sky]

May be the case but I found it now in preview so yeah :e

[vague dew]

I would be fine with the update taking longer if they stop wasting my time

[lusty gulch]

is there any parts, besides armors/structure that isnt able to get scorched?

also, how are we supposed to actually fully utilizee thermal lance without eitheer overcooling or oveerheating it?

or arr we just suppsoed too constantly flicker coolers on/off

[brazen cove]

by middlecooling it, i figure

[lusty gulch]

a valve to keep a certain lvl of a heat in a system but allowing eexces to be cooled oof would be nice

[lusty gulch]

explain pls

[brazen cove]

not using too much cooling or too much heating

something with variable heat production/consumption like shields or TCMs might be useful

[lusty gulch]

well 1 inst enough 2 is too much and heat generation doesnt even show up as a stat rn...

[brazen cove]

what about 1.5

[tranquil wedge]

Youre not supposed to

[lusty gulch]

cools down

[tranquil wedge]

Anything that is crew walkable can get fire and can therefore get scorched

[lusty gulch]

ah yes 0-

[brazen cove]

i wasn't joking (well i kind of was but theres a serious point here)
use 2 beams with 3 radiators, bang you have 1.5 radiators per beam

[lusty gulch]

Celeste, dont wanna ping u directly, bcs i been told not to, but if u see this, is a "open" / structure based pipe being considered, or can i go ahead and make my own, just dont wanna do "double" work

[tranquil cape]

add another overclocked thing to the network

[tranquil cape]

ooo this is a nice idea actually

it should work like the corridor one where it can only go straight but it would be cool

[lusty gulch]

why only straight? imo being exposed is risk enough, having a maybe vital "cooling" line raptured is gonna be a big enough issue. having the part vanilla would just guarantee the best statee for the part.

[tranquil cape]

small thruster structure heat pipe spam

if the structure one is cheaper them it will be hard to make the normal one actually worth to use

hmm

it probably would just flat out have to be more expensive

[next urchin]

We're interested, but no clue when we'd get around to it

[granite sapphire]

i actually dont think this is how it works btw

you get more than half of the effect of each pump on each attached trb with diminishing returns

including heat generation

thats why its so important to have an interconnected trb network

[weary sparrow]

Has anyone posted a suggestion of "Imminent meltdown"?
Atm when you are OC your attention tends to be quite away from the heat meters of the batteries.

Just asking so no double post is created

[lone crest]

so more beams more effeciency/damage output per pump/crew?

[dusky gate]

I'm wondering, shouldn't the heat system be researchable ? I find it a bit weird that it's available right from the start of the game

[granite sapphire]

yea more cost efficient

[bitter steppe]

That is the plan, this is still early beta testing

[dusky gate]

oh I see. So just give it to everybody to try it out before doing some cost/benefit study on the progressive gameplay

[granite sapphire]

i suppose an alert for when your heat system is at capacity would be nice, however thats quite a bit before an actual meltdown happens and it would be hard to measure more accurately

theres also a few easy ways to tell at a glance like if your heat storages are full or if no power storage, your radiators are working at full blast

[lusty gulch]

heat pickup shader still showing up although the part got disabled 10+ secs ago.

[near flax]

zero clue, there's still a lot of tweaks, bug fixes, code optimizations and balancing that needs to happen

[rough shuttle]

question about the thermal missles. how do you "charge" them?

[paper hemlock]

Attach a heat pipe to it

It requires heat to be pumped into them

[near flax]

the heat pipe needs to be connected to the tile above the door

[rough shuttle]

ohh okay

i just did not see any green arrows suggesting that it was possible

and another thing. i see that power cappacitors have a descrition about overclocking but the button is greyed out. any reason why?

[dark lily]

Does your ship have enough command points?

[rough shuttle]

yeah it did but now suddenly it works. no idea what happend since i didnt change anything

[orchid raven]

probably requested a million times at this point, but overclocking fire extinguishers should have been a day 0 feature 😔

[hollow gull]

imagine how funny it would be to watch it catch fire 😔

[rough shuttle]

i would rather take overclocked tractorbeams and crew manipulators

[pale python]

this should be the minimal example
(first collider works, second thats not commented out crashes)

-# (i may have forgotten to do this earlier)

[pale python]

idk if selecting a different tab should close the part mini-category but yeah
probably reported already but this is a example with modded extra

[regal plume]

Okay, the firestarting of the OC Large Cannon is a bit too ridiculous
I'm getting mutual kills with many ships in the 600k range with just a couple of tiny gunships!
As it stands, I'm not sure this is usable on built-in ships due to the frustration it would cause players! 😬

[cerulean prairie]

Selecting a tab deliberately does NOT close the mini-category.

[pale python]

interesting

[unique orchid]

is the update after the meltdown update going to include atmospheric systems?

[narrow owl]

idk probably not, look at the roadmap

[near flax]

unsure if this has been reported but the power generation bar doesnt take into account if a reactor is overclocked

i have an OC LR

[cerulean prairie]

@everyone Thanks for your continued testing, feedback, and bug reports! A new Meltdown Preview build is now available!

**Balance:**

- Deck Cannon (OC):
    - Increased rate of fire (0.11→0.2)
    - Reduced relative recoil (350%→250%)
    - Increased crew stun duration (1→3)
    - Increased crew stun radius (6→9)
    - Reduced heat per shot (6000→3500)
    - Reduced damage pool (20,000→11,250)
    - Reduced relative impulse (250%→200%)
- Boost Thruster (OC):
    - Boost heat factor now slowly dissipates while not thrusting (-3%/sec)
    - Boost thrust power usage now ramps up while thrusting and down while idle (up to 200% over 4 seconds)
- Heavy Blaster (OC):
    - Removed heat per second (was 30)
    - Increased heat per shot (300→320)
- Small Blaster (OC):
    - Reduced fire interval (7.5→3)
    - Reduced salvo (15→6)
    - Reduced heat per second (70→20)
    - Increased heat per shot (110→125)

**Other:**

- Fixed crash on right clicking stacked part buttons
- Fixed crash on a ship’s first PartTimer initializing and immediately being destroyed
- Fixed bullets continuing penetration even after dying due to damage pool exhaustion
- Fixed Thermal Resonance Turret safety not preventing overheating
- Fixed Thermal Canister Missile Launcher not showing thermal port icons
- Fixed Accelerators on overclocked Railguns using half the power they should have
- Added TCM capacity stat to Missile Launcher
- Fixed pre-Meltdown save games crashing due to FireExtinguishJobs
- Added “Heat Capacity” build toolbox stat
- Fixed Railgun Loader ammo sprites not being unhidden after firing

[vague aurora]

ეპიც

Epic*

[fiery hollow]

woooo

[twilit matrix]

Wow, I have great timing. I clicked on this channel precisely as Walt's message arrived!

[polar knot]

This game is awesome

[cerulean prairie]

I was waiting for so long for you to click the channel. This update could've been out hours ago!

[twilit matrix]

Sorry!

[cerulean prairie]

😛

[lone crest]

i agree

[sharp root]

this ping happened the exact moment I finished checking a ping in another server lmao

[pale python]

this is awesome

[lone crest]

devs are awesome

[summer cypress]

i am very interested to see where this update goes! i wonder if any more weapons using heat as their main thing will pop up

[summer cypress]

absolutely

[cerulean prairie]

Not for this update almost certainly, but maybe in the future!

[summer cypress]

alright, thank you

[visual knoll]

I have to say, I really love this method of development. It's completely safe, yes you lose the "hype" of having a big release, but there are no surprises for the community, everything is a little better balanced at release

[polar knot]

Can’t name one other game with such great devs

[plucky fossil]

what's the reasoning for boost ramping up power usage instead of just being 2x? so crew are drawn initially and logistics are not extremely hard?

[cerulean prairie]

Not sure, Celeste or maybe someone from the balance council can probably answer that.

[summer cypress]

imo this is how games should be updated in general where possible

[lone crest]

reallll

devs that interact with the community my beloved

[summer cypress]

i'd say airships conquer the skies has a good dev, though i havent checked on the game recently

[visual knoll]

probably saves a ton of resources that would otherwise be spent on QA as well -- freeing up devs to develop the game and spend less time testing. a great approach for small teams

[plucky fossil]

dcss!!

[plucky fossil]

i don't think cosmoteer has ever had professional qa

[tranquil cape]

aw why was small blaster salvo reduced a ton?

[summer cypress]

why pay for qa when you could both let the community play with the new feature and get qa anyways?

[tranquil cape]

i really liked making small strike ships with them

[visual knoll]

it depends on how deep your pockets are, tbh. There are some advantages to having a big player spike with a new release

[tranquil cape]

with the dc change too there isnt a really weapon in the niche that would support this anymore (except nukes, but i dont really like to use them)

[lusty zealot]

it was a bit busted

[tranquil cape]

it kinda almost completely removed the cool niche it gave though

[plucky fossil]

if you are content with a similar volume of firepower but with less bursts of dakka almost every other weapon can be similarly alpha'd with storage & battery

[tranquil cape]

none of those really works how the oc'ed small laser worked though, in my opinion

[lusty zealot]

you should still be able to do similar things, the initial burst just won't be as impactful

[regal sand]

So, if I resume the change in weapons:

• Oc Laser Blasters got a boost in heat efficiency (av. 180/s -> 145/s) but a decrease in bust damage (bursts of 6 shots instead of 15), though identical average damage
• Oc Heavy Blaster got a decrease in heat efficiency (no longer heating out of combat, but ~+4% in heat generation in combat)
• Oc Deck Canon now shoot a lot faster with a significant reduction in recoil, but their damage per shot got reduced significantly (av. 2200/s -> 2250/s), get a significantly increased stun drawback, plus increased heat generation per second (660 -> 700)

[tranquil cape]

i will miss the rapid fire behavior it had
maybe if some of the damage it dealt was converted to heat damsge so it wasnt as good at insanely breaking though stuff, or maybe inflicted a damage over time effect similar to electro bolter...

the deck cannon one is pretty neat though
though i feel like i will use that always instead of a normal one because the normal one simply doesnt feel good to use in most instances and the oc'ed one solves that

[regal sand]

You can also use Oc DC at long range then remove the Oc once you've hugged your opponent

[paper coyote]

I think they lowered the damage to the deck gun a lot, although I understand that they reduced the rate of fire, but I think the damage is very little, for being OC (maybe increase the damage a little and overall the heat per shot, to balance)

[tranquil cape]

the fire rate was increased, not reduced

[regal sand]

On average you deal more damage than in the previous version, since you shot a lot faster (0.11 shot -> 0.2 shot)

[zinc ether]

Small blasters will be difficult to deal with ngl

[regal sand]

I think the change in LB will make it easier to manage their heat. The heat generated during the 15 shot burst was insane for such weapon, and since the LB's threshold is small it was easy to see them go up in flame

[tranquil cape]

hmm
what if it kept its original stats but its damage was dealt as an over time effect like on the eletro bolter?

[kind estuary]

Intent of OC boost thruster is to be a very powerful turning/maneuver option, while not being able to replace all main forward thrusters.
Not sure if it was added yet, but we discussed how the power/heat rampup is also supposed to decay over inactive time. Effectively meaning it would have less cost than previous for short burst usage, while massively increasing cost of constant use

[tranquil cape]

its manageable with heat batteries which i think is fine, gives them a good use

[plucky fossil]

yes it was added, great change (the decay) imo

i don't like that it encourages flickering though

[regal sand]

only if you connected them directly with pipes. Exchangers had a hard time keeping with it

[kind estuary]

oddly, that flickering part more aligns with real life maneuver thrusters

[plucky fossil]

it's rather uninteresting micro i think

[tranquil cape]

yeah that makes sense
i like it because you cant just spam them in a stright up wall like normal useally

[tranquil cape]

any thoughts? i might post this as a suggestion

[plucky fossil]

if ther curve were more like

it would be bterr i tink

[tranquil cape]

hmm if the power usage resets or decreased with flicker that would be pretty bad for this, yeah
flicker shouldnt be encouraged, its also kinds weird to begin with ontop of the micro

[kind estuary]

OC small laser blasters had too much alpha burst power and damage overall so dealing that back a little.

There were also some issues keeping all 15 shots powered on the second salvo so this should also help with sustain.

a burst of 6 shots also feels more in line with Cosmoteer thematics than 15 which are so many it feels like the entire gun's fire rate

[lusty zealot]

this'd give it more of a phaser feel

could be fun

[tranquil cape]

i feel like that would make it like a smaller large laser again

[tranquil cape]

i feel like this would make it feel a lot less interesting to me because the kind of burst it had felt like it gave it some neat uses

[boreal estuary]

still wasting my time in career :(

love the new stuff but cant be happy if the only mode i play gets lobotomized

[kind estuary]

OCDC is one of the hardest things we have tried to balance while maintaining its awesomeness. The nonOC DC is one of the strongest weapons in the game, and nearly all OCs increase damage output in some way.

The problem is the nonOCDC was nearly useless in most combat because it almost never connected a shot. So when we make the OCDC have so much more range and speed, that massive power is suddenly VERY visible.

We will definitely keep our eyes on this as it may still need adjustments

[plucky fossil]

it's also doing the job of rail but better imo

[tranquil cape]

i think making the crew stun MUCH worse was the right option with it, i never considered the stun previously while working with the deck cannon

so having it work as an actual factor for non-ultra optimized stuff is neat

[kind estuary]

@crimson osprey This might be a good idea to think about later. giving OC boost thruster a short period of use before the ramping starts.

[lusty zealot]

large laser is an instant beam, this would be sustained over a couple seconds

[plucky fossil]

sl shotgun!! we have no shotguns

[tranquil cape]

i think the small cannon could be this
currently i see nothing interesting with the small cannon despite its burst effect

[plucky fossil]

too similar to lc that way i think

[tranquil cape]

i still see it as really similar and its even compareable with the chaingun and ions

[tranquil cape]

lc doesnt frag except when the projectile is destoryed and the frags do basicly nothing to armor or shields so i dont really consider it
its more of a flame infliction weapon

[plucky fossil]

but have decay be linesr

linear

[crimson osprey]

The goal of the OC boost change is to make lighter use of boost thrust relatively easy to manage (occasional high output strafe, breaking and turning) while making sustained main thrust uses require more logistical investment. In the last patch, we were seeing pure OC boost ships capable of fighting an entire encounter without turning them off. They can still do that, but they will have to invest more heavily into energy infrastructure

[kind estuary]

a huge part of the reason we had to lower damage and increase fire rate was because the stun was effectively doing nothing for the first 20-50 seconds of a fight because the gun doesnt stun ammo already in the gun, only crew supplying it.

this large of a stun area is definitely not small, and is now a sizable portion of the time between shots.

[plucky fossil]

why not just have energy cost ramp the same way as heat

[kind estuary]

definitely also trying to make sure we dont accidentally cause a meta where you load the OCDC, fight for a minute, then run and reload for a minute before reengaging

[granite sapphire]

cool patch seems solid

[tranquil cape]

it was worse than that #1370799036591898837 message

[kind estuary]

I had my eye on OCSC last night... and kind of agree that it is missing something. it may need some improvements yet

[crimson osprey]

Similar effect, different approach

[plucky fossil]

does not encourage flicker so much due to the 6 battery leeway

it has to both encourage keeping the thrust on for more than a tick and also unencourage/cost keeping it on too long

i think making the heat cost exponential oculd also work but keep the decay linear

[kind estuary]

in my own testing, i found OCLC a unique win condition weapon. The amount of fires that thing can cause will mandate fire extinguishers more than TRB. It seemed to work best in combination with an armor stripping weapon. try it out a bit, killing crew with fire is a hidden powerhouse

[crimson osprey]

Exponential would create a duration wall and we don’t want that

[tranquil cape]

yeah that does seem cool
was saying that it doesnt really act like a shotgun though

[plucky fossil]

true

[kind estuary]

What kind of instant self immolation bomb am i looking at?! are those roman archer alpha self immolation volley rows?

[tranquil cape]

yes
it even includes explosive charges so the front rows doesnt block the back

[kind estuary]

honestly, OCLC is a BETTER version off a shotgun in game terms. having the projectiles split as close to the target as possible means the most damage in every game.
OC disruptor used to be a shotgun. in our tests we found it to be worse than nonOC in nearly every situation.

[tranquil cape]

but thats not really shotgun like
its just frags that arent purposed for raw damage

the small cannon already comes with inaccuracy for this, too

the disruptor one is likely worse because you had to give it inaccuracy, this isnt nessesart with a cannon

[pale python]

alright time to update

[regal plume]

I haven't managed to get a OC laser blaster ship to work 😦

non OC (and heavy laser) seems to work better

[tranquil cape]

i have with a boost thruster craft that did run-by attacks, it was really cool
unfortunate it isnt viable there anymore

[kind estuary]

which ship size? i seem to remember OCLB feeling overpowered on small earlygame career ships. They were also changed about an hour ago to have shorter salvos

[pale python]

minor oversight but scorched status' effects and the floor's alpha holes make it so it doesnt apply the scorched effect on things ontop of said holes (see: walkway, strange effects on some of the storage tiles, etc)

[regal plume]

Tiny (70k-110k)
The heat management to avoid burning up was always too expensive to be worth it 😦

Got an example ship to hand?

[kind estuary]

i feel more concerned that a storage of sulfur and uranium did not explode to the fires

[pale python]

yeah

[paper hemlock]

REPO devs are pretty hard to beat

[kind estuary]

I apparently ddidnt save my earliest career designs i used in testing. also the price of radiators went 4k-8k(with hypercoils) after i was inn a 7-9 system

I recall something like 3way thruster connected to a radiator connected to a OCLB on both sides of a nonOC small shield. That was enough to kill pretty much everything earlygame

that setup is harder to make now, and weaker. but likely still could perform decently well

[native solstice]

I’m really confused

I put preview preview in the password and it doesn’t show meltdown

[pale python]

no spaces

[native solstice]

nvm I had to type it in again

[native solstice]

I did no spaces

for some reason it didn’t work first time I typed it

works now.

[polar knot]

What's repo?

[polar knot]

And whats dcss?

[near flax]

game about collecting stuff with monsters nearby

[near flax]

game about dungeon crawling

[tranquil cape]

also maybe terraria

[polar knot]

Ahh

[upbeat sequoia]

Dear Team, I would just like to say that the new overdrive system is great. It adds a new dimention to the game, particularly in how much contol you have during battles. No longer is combat a click once and wait system, now it is 'Scotty, maximum overdrive to front deflector shields and reverse trusters. Lower overdrive power to disrupters and power generators."

[hard orbit]

Maybe the deck gun should have an indicator showing the stun radius now that it is more significant.

[polar knot]

Is it better to have each system have their own pipes and radiator, or is it better to connect it all in one big pipe network

[quasi meteor]

I completely share this sentiment. I think all that’s missing is some keybinds to turn on and off overdrive for specific module groups

[narrow owl]

I'm kinda sad about small blaster not being as bursty as before, it's very hard to fit oc sb on ships so I feel it should be more rewarding

[plucky fossil]

stone soup

[plucky fossil]

it should haev a stun radius anyways.....

*stun radius shown

[next urchin]

The issue with shotguns is that they actually reduce the effective range of the weapon, and spread is not a beneficial thing to increase in the first place

[kind estuary]

I have long wanted that... several times i have made a fake version to guess where the stun was actually happening

[tranquil cape]

i mean you wouldnt have to give a cannon more spread for it to be shotgun like because it already has spread
although you could anyways but make sure that the damage in the original spread area isnt somehow lower than the non-oc variant

with things like laser they have no spread so this wouldnt work

[plucky fossil]

small cannon bullet rain

[pale python]

point defense 2

[weary sparrow]

my suggestion went into the game, yay 😄

[hard orbit]

The per second heat generation on factories for over clock shown in the par stats doesn't seem to be computed correctly.

[granite sapphire]

a fully interconnected network is cheaper and better at handling spikes of heat from any single part of the ship

[plucky fossil]

cheaper? i don't think so

they also all fail together which is good/bad

[dark lily]

Interconnected systems are better at handling a given issue, and because the system doesn't explode continuously like rails there isn't really a direct downside. You could balance multiple individual systems, but 1 heat storage 5 times is worse than 4 heat storages 1 time in a heat system

It's a tradeoff! Smaller systems are likely cheaper, but less efficient and effective. Whether or not it's worth paying the premium to connect it all is up to you and your design!

[crimson osprey]

I'd say a fully connected system is more expensive for all the piping and requires more complicated build considerations, but has the advantage of redundancy and more robust, centralized heat storage and disposal systems. It's important to consider where and how it can break though, as getting heat generation sources and their required vents cut off from one another can be catastrophic.

[granite sapphire]

well more cost efficient

[polar knot]

Sounds good

I’ll go full connected

[remote charm]

the joys of cosmoteer 😁

[pale python]

meltdown dlc fr /j

[prisma dock]

Is there a reason why overclocking treats Large Thrusters much more favorably than the other normal thruster types?

[flat skiff]

17777.8 but yeah.. weird

[prisma dock]

oops

Another weird thing:

[next urchin]

I'm this 🤏 close to leaving the gap just to annoy everyone 😄

[pale python]

horrific

[prisma dock]

But the gap is a lie

[next urchin]

I believe you actually can get damage through the gap

No idea how, but I've seen people with damage in the middle

[lusty zealot]

try the sun

or an ion storm left for a while

[prisma dock]

If it happens, it's the luckiest shot of all time. I'm targeting a tile dozens of tiles in the back placed in order to precisely try and target the gap. Couldn't get through after several attempts.

But if there is a gap, please remove it. Don't be mean. 😉

Same goes for the gap with Large Shields

[next urchin]

Large shields only have a gap when they're 14 tiles apart, that's just a case of put them closer together

[pale python]

laser shots have like no collision radius

1x2 armor in the middle, target it head on

?

[prisma dock]

14 is an even number. 13 is not. So having full coverage be mirror-friendly would be nice.
Also, gods help us - the gap is real! (but only if you target 2 specific tiles in the back)

[next urchin]

12 is also an even number 🙃

[prisma dock]

there are no even numbers below 14.

[pale python]

true...

[delicate moss]

Kid named turning 3 degrees to the left

[prisma dock]

You cannot turn in combat. Stop disproving my points!

[next urchin]

Careful of the monkey's paw

[delicate moss]

Yeah, yesterday I was playing career and rammed into an enemy ship. The moment my ship contacted the enemy, they went offcenter and my computer shut itself down

[prisma dock]

If you can round pi to 3, you can also neglect even numbers below 14. Right?

[kind estuary]

1 is prime
its also equal to 0.999999....

[vague gulch]

after recent oc dc nerf, still winning

[stuck roost]

Same price?

[vague gulch]

oc dc 10k more

[vocal trout]

4 % 2
=> 1

[granite sapphire]

please unnerf ion damage somewhat to maybe 210/220 per arc

[next urchin]

Standards: +1200 bonus thrust / 125 heat = 9.6 thrust/heat, 0.05 power = 24000/power
Larges: +2400 / 275 heat = 8.73/heat, 0.08 power = 30000/power
Huges: +4000 / 700 heat = 5.71/heat, 0.25 power = 16000/power

You can't compare the full values, because you're paying the heat cost to go from base thrust to OC thrust, not from 0 to OC thrust.

[vague dew]

well your ship is pure funtion but therse has some form

[hybrid warren]

this is going break some metas

[polar knot]

Missile cruisers are done for

[tame comet]

i doubt it

[wheat wigeon]

Would be cool if Radiators could have a mode where they only work when there is a certain threshold (%age) of heat in the system.
That way heat storage and heat missiles could be filled up before heat is blown off through the radiators!
#1372941338944737451 message

[plucky fossil]

defiitely not

[polar knot]

I’ve tried overclocked deck cannons on the Alexander and Augustus

Poor imperium ships don’t stand a CHANCE

[plucky fossil]

i assume by missile cruiser you meant the phallic shaped missile barge

[polar knot]

Yeah

That or the u shaped ones

Or v shaped ones

[brazen cove]

ah yes, Alexander, famous HE missile ship

[polar knot]

Nukes are missiles I think

[brazen cove]

also, while i dont know enough about the ODCs to actually say much about them, it is worth note that Augustus specifically has been weak to DCs since forever anyways because it's pretty much 90% sulphur on the inside

[brazen cove]

in a technical sense yes, but from a gameplay perspective the two weapons have different niches
in PVP, "missile" pretty much only refers to HE missiles, which is why i said that about alexander

[polar knot]

Ah

[brazen cove]

i can confidently say that Alexander would suck ass if it used HEs instead of nukes, even beyond the normal AI weakness to nukes

[twilit matrix]

On that topic: I once remember seeing a short science fiction story that revolved around an alien weapon capable of deleting numbers from existence in a small area. Does that sound familiar to anyone? I've never been able to find it since.

[brazen cove]

doesn't sound familiar no, but i love the concept

reminds me of SCP-2719, a thing that makes other things, for lack of a better way to phrase it, go inside

[vague gulch]

one of the factor

[polar knot]

What’s the best way to check ship efficiency?

I’ve just been placing down both my ship and the top ship of each faction before setting both to normal AI

[prisma dock]

Thx for the correction. Makes sense. But even with the correct calculation Large Thrusters still seem to get way more out of overclocking than the others.

[frigid gull]

https://tenor.com/view/alexuyutov-angry-birds-movie-gif-8236420825653318147

[dim cargo]

Played around with it and love the idea- potentially needs some more fiddling with balance wise but 100% a great addition to the game- it fits right in

[marsh aurora]

Hi, I don't have the game right now in this pc, so I just wanted to ask, do shields get increased penetration resistance when overclocked?

[regal sand]

small/large shields have 25/75 penetration resistance, except against disruptor that have a special penetration property against them

[narrow owl]

maybe because they require less energy and cause less heat the propulsion system is more compact and you can protect it more easily so the ship is lighter ?

[marsh aurora]

Yeah, I meant while overclocked

[regal sand]

same, but they get a 50% res to EMP

Disruptor also still penetrate small shields

[marsh aurora]

Thanks

[granite sapphire]

@next urchin i have heard that TRBs shield debuff is actually weakened by multiple trbs being on the same shield. why is this the case? diminishing returns obviously makes sense and it not stacking altogether too

[paper hemlock]

TRB?

[granite sapphire]

thermal resonance beam

[plucky fossil]

heat beam

[twilit matrix]

No worries - I've never met anyone who has recognized it, though it was a well-written short story.

[wicked lotus]

Man, I wish all Overclocked Reactors increased their battery size by 1 like the Large does.
Would make singular Small Reactor ships with a few batteries so much more viable. Having to refill OC Batteries 1 battery at a time isn't feasible, especially factoring in passive energy upkeep taking up crew time.

[paper hemlock]

Why would people spend the money to get a MR or LR if they could spend a fraction of the price to OC them

[kind estuary]

they used to add +1 battery size to each. we found it was WAY too broken on small and medium reactors to the point they outright replaced the larger sized versions in every way sadly...

it is feasible. i have multiple capacitors fully stocked off 1 small reactor on several ships. OC capacitors are not reactor replacements, they are powerful storage units for a decent combat length, not infinitely sustained

[paper hemlock]

^^^^^

[wicked lotus]

Because having to fit a thermal system into a ship has its own limitations/faults and larger reactors would still produce far more energy and with larger battery sizes.

If ya tested it already sure, but as someone who hasn't...man, what if...

And yeah, Batteries on small ships + small reactors really are just a time limit extension. Run out and you become useless pretty much.

Unless you have Ballistic weapons or something.

[kind estuary]

it was more that most cases of large reactor use were not redlining that reactor. so the power generation of medium was more than enough, but took less space.

Smalls take nearly no space, but the battery size 1 had too hard a time restocking large shields, size 2 meant they could just do that without the large explosive behind it

if you design around capacitors you are intending to be running on a clock

[lusty zealot]

like on this thing

[wicked lotus]

I suppose that makes sense lol.

lol, is that a mini Nuker?

[kind estuary]

oh, the thermal version of what we were talking about.

[wicked lotus]

That is certainly an interesting ship. Batteries for extending the Boosts far beyond normal and nothing else.

[lusty zealot]

both thermal and energetic

[kind estuary]

OH there they are

[lusty zealot]

1 non-OC small doesn't produce anywhere near enough power to run 2 OC boosts constantly

[plucky fossil]

they already are viable....

[kind estuary]

good god Theta what was that lore LMAO

i clicked by accident and now am in stitches

[lusty zealot]

(:

[wicked lotus]

I more meant for extended use, but yeah, as pointed out above, designing around OC Batteries is a time limit. I guess I have been trying to do something a bit futile wanting it to be sustainable.

[kind estuary]

it did indeed run "a lil hot"

[plucky fossil]

lol

[eternal ibex]

it's called weight saving 🤭

[lusty zealot]

yeah

another example of a fringe ship by me with questionable heat management

its name is Acceptable Risk

you can probably figure out why

[kind estuary]

sounds VERY fringe

[paper hemlock]

Nothing will beat Impending Lawsuit

[kind estuary]

Beautiful in name only... impending lawsuit... deathrito... Liability...
I love fringe ships lmao

[lusty zealot]

btw @next urchin, can i have some clarification on how MRT extender overclock works? my thinking is that it adds a flat 250kn of thrust to the nozzle, which is then affected by the % increases from extenders and ERs, is this correct?

[sharp root]

I just tabbed here to ask that- lmao

[upbeat sequoia]

I dont get it from just looking at the exterior. Could you post it showing the internals instead please. It looks very fringe from the outside though.

[lusty zealot]

that is a ship.png file, so if you have the game open you can load it directly in

[upbeat sequoia]

ok, thanks

[lusty zealot]

in case you don't have the game open though

[upbeat sequoia]

double thanks

ok, i get it now.
So far in my building I have struggled using the heat exchanger, ive gone back to doing direct connections only for most parts.

and you have disconnected mini thrusters too.... very interesting

[lusty zealot]

another example of disconnected small thrusters

[granite sapphire]

oc ions feel like they could use a buff

[lusty zealot]

OC small cannons definitely could

[prisma dock]

But for that very reason (smaller parts being less bulky and easier to use/protect) they should get less stats, not more. It always used to be the case that HTs are more cost effective than LTs and LTs are more cost effective than STs and so on. It's weird to not see this pattern reflected in the overclock stats.

[granite sapphire]

devs on vacation rn? xd

[granite sapphire]

@mellow barn sorry i would appreciate a response

shoot

wrong message

[granite sapphire]

.

[mellow barn]

I don't know. I wasn't even aware of multiple TRBs actively reducing the effect. Almost sounds unintended, like it's dividing instead of multiplying.

[lusty zealot]

i don't think it's that multiple TRBs hitting a shield weakens the effect, i think it's that it doesn't stack and thus the diminishing returns of having multiple TRTs on a single network hitting a shield means the resulting debuff will make it weaker

i do think it should probably stack

[granite sapphire]

multiple knowledgable players have told me it is not just not stacking but literally makes the debuff worse

@mild gazelle sorry for pinging iirc it was you unless im misremembering

[mild gazelle]

Yeah I said that

I think quiximo and saris were saying it

[granite sapphire]

well time to ping them xd

[kind estuary]

so debuffs with 50 dilators are able to be replaced by a debuff with 2? s save file that shows this would help a ton for devs fixing a bug like that

[lusty zealot]

well, it is making the debuff worse vs having 1 trt on the system, but 2 on separate systems shouldn't be worse than one equally-buffed trt

i think

[granite sapphire]

uhhh is that what they mean?

[lusty zealot]

i think so

[mild gazelle]

I might just be spreading misinformation MB 😬

[granite sapphire]

i suppose it makes sense

[mild gazelle]

Idk

[lusty zealot]

either way the behaviour is somewhat unintuitive and i do think the debuff should stack (though with diminishing returns)

[granite sapphire]

@crimson osprey is this accurate and what you meant?

[granite sapphire]

it should stack logarithmically imo

[kind estuary]

i recall the intended mechanic last time i read celeste talking about it was TRB are supposed to maintain the strongest debuff applied to them

[granite sapphire]

mm

imo should stack

no reason to not and just weaken the debuff in turn if it becomes a problem

[kind estuary]

I also lean the direction that the debuff should ideally be based on a recently applied TRB total effect. allowing multiple to contribute.

there may be some kind of performance limitation, or could be related to several of the times the balance council found the weapon was WAY TOO STRONG. TRB's functional scaling power in nuts and has been difficult to keep in check without gimping it completely. currently thinking the scaling is in a better place overall, but the base values might be too low.
Should be able to use multiple TRB on shields if we can, just need to make sure it gets various diminishing returns such that the result is stronger than only 1, but prevents it from going insane with 8-22 and instagibbing

[lusty zealot]

new monolith-style ship, Sync

[lusty zealot]

i think i've matched monolith style pretty well

2 of the ships there are mine, the rest are builtins

[granite sapphire]

i agree with the balance issue but something being able to instagib pure shield defenses might be a good thing because they are incredibly overpowered rn

[crimson osprey]

TRB debuffs do not stack, they can only refresh durations. When using multiple TRBs on the same system, there are diminishing returns to pump contribution per additional turret. That means in a system with pumps, each TRB will have less damage and area of effect per additional turret. I was certain that since pump contribution buffs the shield debuff effect, that the diminishing returns for multiple turrets would also reduce the total debuff, but I'm going to chat with Celeste about it when I get the chance to be 100% sure. If my current understanding is correct, I'm thinking about asking if it would be better if the shield debuff was exempt from the multiple turret diminishing return in order to normalize it's effectiveness a little.

The debuff is already VERY strong. If multiple debuffs stacked, the diminishing return would have to be pretty severe

[granite sapphire]

is it rly that strong? i mean sure its good but even with 2 of em ive been getting completely hard tanked by basically all pure oc shield defenses

[lusty zealot]

i do like the idea of removing the multi-turret diminishing returns for the debuff

[granite sapphire]

and my ship has quite large offensive investment with 16 oc ions and 2 trbs with 4 of each pump

plus tcms

[lusty zealot]

maybe increase the amount of heat applied to OC shields by TRT hitting the shield?

[crimson osprey]

I'll put it like this. I tested an OC dual rail setup that's been making the rounds in PVP. On it's own, it can drop a single overclocked large shield and gets pretty much countered. With a TRB debuff backup weapon, the same rails are capable of beating multiple OC large shields and whatever is behind it in 1-2 shots

[granite sapphire]

its just putting it over the threshold

[violet flicker]

how does generating and transferring heat work because im confused

[granite sapphire]

also oc rails are like one of the best weapon already vs ocls defenses

because they actually have burst damage

maybe that means they should be nerfed instead

[crimson osprey]

No just about it. TRBs are a damage multiplier, and with adequate investment the multiplier is large

[granite sapphire]

along with ocls

[crimson osprey]

No. They are not

[lusty zealot]

heat is generated by overclocked weapons and thermal resonance beams (also known as TRTs or TRBs), and automatically transferred from a part generating heat through any connected pipes

[granite sapphire]

anyways then i suppose oc ions need a buff

[lusty zealot]

pipes have infinite throughput

[crimson osprey]

What is your reasoning for that?

[granite sapphire]

because something about my ship just isnt working for some particular reason

and everything about it is logistically and conceptually sound

[granite sapphire]

or oc ls a nerf

[lusty zealot]

i do agree that OC shields probably do need a bit of a bonk with the nerf bat

[crimson osprey]

Have you tried supplementing your ions with TRB + dilation pumps?

[lusty zealot]

his ship does have TRTs

[granite sapphire]

my ship is a 16 ion, 2 trb cruiser

[crimson osprey]

How many pumps

[granite sapphire]

4 amp 4 dilator

im telling you its not a conceptual issue with the ship

people can vouch that its well enough designed to serve as a benchmark for balance

[crimson osprey]

If you want to focus on dropping shields specifically, go down to one TRB (for now), drop the amps, and use all of those credits on dilation pumps, then try that

[granite sapphire]

i mean im aware that would mildly help and all but i still think its a reflection on balance that i get full tanked. in the first place vs oc ls setups i lock my trbs forward so they hit different ls, so that shouldnt even be an issue

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/546327169014431746/1372998848871399445/Solar_Flare_mk5.ship.png?ex=6828d052&is=68277ed2&hm=ab9541e1db875acd044441e1c20362834a6c5518520791b54d1a912271bcd527& heres the ship idk if the file works with compression

[crimson osprey]

It wouldn't midly anything. It would make a massive difference

Rebuild with those changes, do a shield damage test, then tell me how it went

[granite sapphire]

i dont doubt it will ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[crimson osprey]

Bet

[granite sapphire]

thats more besides the point though

cgt alr has a 1 trb ion cruiser that works well

[crimson osprey]

That is the point. You want ions to be better against shields. I told you how to do it within your budget

[granite sapphire]

i dont think i should have to make these changes to be able to do any damage whatsoever to ships with large shields, is my point

[crimson osprey]

That looks like an OCion16 core, in a 2-1 ratio, is that accurate?

[granite sapphire]

its overall a somewhat small "inefficiency" if you can even call it that (bc i added 2 trb and amps for versatility and anti armor too) and imo it shouldnt dictate whether or not i can put a single scratch on oc ls ships

[granite sapphire]

2 4:1 and 4 2:1s

[crimson osprey]

Your damage versus shields is, to put it bluntly, weak

That's not an Ion problem, that's a build problem

[granite sapphire]

i have 2 of a weapon with reasonably high investment specifically designed to help against shields combined with a fair investment in overclocked ions i dont think it should be so weak

[crimson osprey]

Your build is a classic ion barge style that's been upgraded to OC ions, a smattering of TRB support and Heat dissipation. It's a retrofit. That's fine, but it's not taking advantage of a lot of things you can do now to significantly increase your offensive punch, or at least focus on what you're weak against. There are OC ships flying around with MUCH bigger damage than you and people have adjusted their defenses accordingly. Ofcourse you're struggling to break shields

[granite sapphire]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

i dont feel thats particularly fair but alright

[crimson osprey]

It is

[granite sapphire]

i havent seen anyone else really pushing ions and getting meaningfully different results from me so far so i will just wait and see

maybe make a few upgrades

[crimson osprey]

I've explained to you how the weapon you're using to break shields isn't being optimized to do so, but you're arguing that instead of changing your ship for a benefit you don't think will matter, you would rather the developers buff a weapon with sustained weapon dps that's already near top tier

[granite sapphire]

i think it more just shows a fundamental issue with the aforementioned weapons design. i know i can design around it but i frankly am tired of optimizing my cruiser for now

anyways, thanks for the help

[crimson osprey]

If you aren't willing to push your build to the limit, how do you know where the limit is?

[granite sapphire]

lol

[paper hemlock]

Why not use Heat Exchangers for everything? What's the downside?

[cunning swift]

40% heat inefficiency

[scarlet dew]

When do you expect to release this update officially? Also, would the update be likely to break any career saves made on the preview build? I'm sorely tempted to start a new career

[lusty zealot]

and they're slow

[marsh aurora]

Probably nobody is wondering, but the -50% arc reduction from overclocked shields means a -45.88% width for small shields and -34.72% for large shields. The reduction isn't exactly -50% as that is the perimeter reduction instead of the chord reduction.

[lusty gulch]

Turneed off heat Exchangers still display VFX

how exactly is the heat / shield interaction intended?

"saved & reloaded" turned off radiator

vs "live" turned off radiator

[muted junco]

I think the overclocking is so strong that normal ships don't stand a chance agaisnt it
My worry here is that if overcloked ships get added as built ins at a later date, there will be almost nothing that normal career ships can do agasint them, forcing every player to use some sort of heat system..
How could we work around this

[twilit matrix]

Has anyone else thought that radiators looked like lightsaber handles?

[brazen cove]

well now i do dammit

[weary sparrow]

hello

[paper hemlock]

I'm killing you now

[twilit matrix]

Why?

[paper hemlock]

I'm bored

:3

[twilit matrix]

Well, that doesn't seem very fair.

[paper hemlock]

It's already been decided

[marsh aurora]

Do anyone has a picture of the stats of any of the shields?

[paper hemlock]

One sec

[marsh aurora]

Thanks, I'm using mods so my stats are currently different

[quasi meteor]

overclocking is objectively very expensive and requires adding more vulnerabilities to the exterior. I can imagine an overclocked ship punching above its weight in a 1v1 but still outmatched when outnumbered.

[muted junco]

true

[quasi meteor]

there's more squishy bits that, if destroyed, makes the ship literally kill itself

[muted junco]

more weakpoints, and more vunrable to damage

damagge enough of the heat system and their ship will literally kill its self

[lusty zealot]

that's actually a very good point, hadn't really thought of that

[quasi meteor]

on most ships, the worst a stray missile can do on the side is take out maneuvering thrusters or punch a hole in the side armor

but imagine one of those radiator setups where they're pointing out to the sides

a stray missile hitting the sides could tank radiator output

and now your large cannons are overheating

[brazen cove]

return of the "single cannon squib destroys flagship" era

[quasi meteor]

perfect

[muted junco]

this is their ship when the radiators are dead

entire vessel on fire

[quasi meteor]

yerp exactly

I love the OC mechanics

it can take a lot of effort to hit a reactor cause they're buried deep inside sometimes

but heat components can take up a huge area of the ship, and radiators have to be exposed with no armor

so I think building ships for OC will generally be taking the higher risk with higher reward path

[marsh aurora]

Maybe the AI should disable overclocking if their radiators are destroyed

[plucky fossil]

that's because there's maybe 2 or 3 people max pushing each weapon currently

[plucky fossil]

normal pvp ships (ancient ones at that) still hold their own vs overclocked pvp ships

[near flax]

what do you mean?

[muted junco]

im not talking about pvp.

we dont have enough people talking about career alot of the time

thats what im directing my focus at

[plucky fossil]

if even the maximum combat efficiency is not enough then i don't think career will be either

[near flax]

shields produce a lot of heat when hit so its best to directly connect them with pipes, shields increased health when overclocked makes the shield system design priorities split between getting rid of heat and resupplying batteries

[lusty gulch]

yes, but my concern was shields seam to take 0 to little dmg from heat? is that correct?

[near flax]

TRT change how much health per battery the shield has

not dealing direct damage but making it more vunerable to other weapons

unsure if TCM has the same effect

[granite sapphire]

i think refusing to engage with a key game mechanic should make your ship at least at a significant disadvantage. non oc ships will still easily hold their own in career most likely because its the ai using the oc weapons anyways

[dark lily]

For what it's worth, the overclocked ships will be likely be primarily reserved as a faction, and said faction will be similar to the Imperium in that you never spawn next to them. And that engaging with them is engaging with a higher difficulty, like the Imperium

[granite sapphire]

oh, will overclocking be rare for the other factions?

[dark lily]

Very likely

[muted junco]

ohhh

thats cool

im glad

[granite sapphire]

sounds good

[muted junco]

that reduces my worry quite a bit

cause i know its a core mechanic, but its complicated

the fact it will be a harder difficulty only faction would be good for beginners

(i mean higher system levels)

[plucky fossil]

faction like the void or whatever starsector abyss stuff would be cool i think

[scarlet dew]

Do overclocked capacitors simply allow crew to grab 3-stacks at a time or literally multiply batteries by three?

[plucky fossil]

grab 3 stack

[scarlet dew]

Ok, maybe my supply/demand is just too overlapped, but I could've sworn it was the latter

With obviously game-breaking implications

Does overclocking change the middle row or something?

[next urchin]

Correct

[next urchin]

It uses the max value. The only weakening would be from multiple TRBs using the same set of pumps, which would make both firing beams slightly weaker than if only one was firing

[lusty zealot]

maybe change it to '250kn' rather than just '250'

[lusty zealot]

as i thought, thanks for clarification

[grim gyro]

I feel like this update is very unbalanced

pretty much every old pvp ship being completely obsolete is a pretty strong indicator of that imo

i feel as if overclocking shouldn't be an upgrade, just an alternative

[crimson osprey]

Old ships may be obsolete, but there is nothing to suggest that old archetypes are. Old archetypes can benefit from overclocking

[grim gyro]

i should have said ship, not archetype mb

[crimson osprey]

The fact that old ships can benefit means it's worthwhile to try out overclocking. If it wasn't, overclocking wouldn't have much point

Significant changes that effect the core of the game are going to potentially toss up the meta. I don't think that makes them unbalanced, it just means things will change

[grim gyro]

yeah but its so much of an improvement that old ships are more or less useless as is, which puts all of the hard work which went into them to waste.

[bitter steppe]

BATTLESHIPS

[crimson osprey]

Players have had roughly 2.5 years to enjoy their creations and many have left for lack of new things to build. As of preview, you have new things to build. Because of that, we've seen many players who haven't played in ages returning and enjoying it all over again and I'd call that a huge win for us all.

I don't think any of your hard work went to waste. Building is fun, using your builds is fun and all the knowledge you gained is still helpful. The many friends you've gained along the way are here to enjoy the game beside you. This preview presents to you a new challenge and a great opportunity to pioneer new ways to kill your friends play the game

[grim gyro]

You can have that while keeping it balanced with pre meltdown cosmoteer though

[crimson osprey]

What exactly are you calling unbalanced?

[grim gyro]

overclocking in general

[crimson osprey]

The fact that overclocked ships have more power potential?

[grim gyro]

they're better to such a huge degree that playing old ships is almost entirely pointless

[crimson osprey]

Overclocking takes time, significant patience, study and plenty of self immolations. If the result wasn't any more powerful than pre-meltdown ships, there wouldn't be a payoff and all the new amazing work Celeste has been putting in would go to waste

[granite sapphire]

nobody likes powercreep, but you do need to make there be like an actual reason to use the new mechanic

[grim gyro]

i think that overclocking should offer more situational improvements though, rather than more OC = better ship

[near flax]

its a risk for reward type thing

also balancing is still in progress

[grim gyro]

i think that there is far to much reward for far too little risk though atm

i would definitely like to see more rebalancing

[crimson osprey]

The game used to only have small reactors. When medium and large reactors were added, many ships became obsolete. That didn't unbalance the game because small reactor builds had trouble keeping up with newer ones with more tools, but it did mean that players needed to do some rebuilding in order to make full use of the new tools available.

Every new part or mechanic increases the size of your toolbox. The bigger your toolbox, the greater the ship power potential. OC parts are simply the latest tools in your box.

[grim gyro]

larger reactors are situational though, unlike OC atm

[brazen cove]

it seems to me that OC isn't balanced by being strong or weak or situational but by creating the situation

[crimson osprey]

You're comparing a single part to a veritable treasure trove of parts. OC isn't a part, it's an entire new mechanic

[grim gyro]

which seems to be in almost all cases vastly better than non OC

[brazen cove]

that said, a few things could probably be changed, im not sure
OC large shields in particular seem very strong to me, but i haven't had the chance to try out much else

[grim gyro]

boost thrusters are absolutely busted as well

[crimson osprey]

Not always better. The number of dead ships that overheated is proof of that. Overclocking is tempting because there is plenty of power there, but the drawbacks are very real

[near flax]

in tidepool weve been jokingly calling this the "why is my ship on fire" update and i think thats plenty of evidence of how risky OC can be

[crimson osprey]

At any rate, this is a preview. Balance changes are being discussed daily. Feedback is definitely being heard. What we currently have is a starting point and balancing will continue from here. Overclocking will continue to provide interesting and powerful opportunities along with serious risks and we'll keep doing what we do to help our awesome developers make it as fun and exciting as possible

[brazen cove]

its also worth mentioning that the cost of the OC parts is not super intuitive (at least for me) so it looks a bit flashier than it is

its easy to go "jesus, that single part is hitting so hard, this is overpowered!" and forgot the heating components behind it costing 10x as much

[grim gyro]

While that is true for shields and a few other things, almost all weapons are far better when overclocked, even when considering the cost of heat and the risk it adds

[brazen cove]

what about the OC chainguns, does their rampup seem like a big issue? i ask because i remember you made a cg rammer with two long OCGs

[grim gyro]

i havent played with them very much, but at 1.5 mil they seem pretty balanced as far as i can tell

above that i can imagine them being absolutely broken lmao

[crimson osprey]

Considering all the heat infrastructure that they have to invest in, overclocked weapons SHOULD be more powerful. There is quite a bit of cost on the back end

[brazen cove]

the thing i wonder is that, you have only two chainguns and they aren't any stronger than regular ones until like 10 seconds have passed, so i can easily imagine them being completely fucked over if they can't sustain a ram

[grim gyro]

yeah ramming has been nerfed into the ground

[brazen cove]

ah

wait what specifically beyond the chaingun thing tho

[crimson osprey]

Also, don't forget all of the added vulnerabilities. Vents can be sheered off. critical pipes severed. Heavily overclocked ships tend to be quite a bit more fragile because of this

[grim gyro]

plaus was able to just fly out of an OC boost chaingun alpha rammer with an OC cannon wall of all things. His ship was facing into mine as well at a 45 degree angle..

[grim gyro]

the drag changes have made it a lot worse

[brazen cove]

beyond that and OC flak there doesn't seem to be much that would specifically prevent ramming

i didn't even know there were drag changes lol

[crimson osprey]

Ramming has been a primary frustration for people for years and the ease of ramlocking has blocked quite a few slower archetypes from being viable. It's harder to ramlock now, though not impossible. I think that's a good thing

[grim gyro]

being able to fly out of this thing at full thrust while facing into it seems a little ridiculous though

[crimson osprey]

As for chaingun, it's not in a particularly good place because of that and we know it. But I think that shows how not particularly shiny chainguns were already. If a weapon is bad unless you can ramlock it, that weapon probably needs some love anyway. Take guarenteed ram locks out of the equation and it will be easier to make it good in situations other than "GG YOU'RE RAMLOCKED I WIN"

[brazen cove]

chainguns are bad? huh? they always seemed strong to me, since it seemed like chainguns could be used just like "ions but better" and work better on weird ship designs with the only downside being that they couldn't kite

[crimson osprey]

I'm glad you're enjoying them! Chainguns do best when able to focus fire a single point in order to bore through it. In PVE, this works fairly consistently. In PVP, opponents will go to a lot of trouble to prevent that from happening. This is why chaingun users prefer to ram. Ramclocked ship can't manuever much, if at all, allowing the chainguns to bore through it. Outside of ramming, chainguns in PVP tend to suffer from range and focus fire issues

[grim gyro]

i dont think that should mean ramming should be made pointless

[grim gyro]

(responding to this)

[crimson osprey]

Problem is, getting ramlocked is... not a particularly fun experience on the receiving end

[brazen cove]

ah
the thing is, i find it difficult to call any weapon kinda bad when it seems capable of doing exactly the same thing as another weapon but better

[crimson osprey]

Ramlocking isn't useless, but it shouldn't be your only win condition

[grim gyro]

^

[brazen cove]

im aware in pvp their uses differ but in pve it really does seem like chainguns are just flat-out better than ions in every way barring kiting

[crimson osprey]

I'll keep this brief so we can stay on meltdown related things here. Chainguns in PVE are pretty strong, more so at higher price points. We have a PVE centered balance council member who enjoys them. Ions definitely have some great things going for them though, evident in some of the beautiful built-ins. To go more deeply into that would exceed the scope of this thread though

[crimson osprey]

So you think no ship should be able to escape a ship designed to ramlock?

[grim gyro]

no, i dont think that a ship with exclusively forward facing thrust should be able to just fly out of one of the biggest, most effective rammer archetypes

it has an absurd amount of thrust and absolutely massive horns and a cannon wall being able to fly out of it is kind of a slap in the face

[crimson osprey]

It sounds like you think your ship is bad outside of ramlocking

[grim gyro]

thats because it absolutely is

that is literally the entire point of the archetype

if it doesnt get a ram a ship can fly circles around it

[crimson osprey]

If ramlocking isn't a guarantee and your ship is bad outside of ramlocking, maybe it's time to build ships that can ram but don't have to in order to win

Beleive it or not, similar archetypes were around before ramlocking was so easy. They'll survive, they'll just change

[grim gyro]

look at the ship and tell me ramming has a purpose for regular ships if this of all things cant do it

[crimson osprey]

Oh ramming is totally still on the table. I get rammed all the time. The difference is getting rammed doesn't mean one player is paralyzed while the other gets to play. You yourself achieved a ram, just not a ramlock

Also, assuming Plaus was using a wide wall with plenty of thrust, I'm assuming they were able to use one of your hooks as a fulcrum in order to rotate out of your ram. Is that accurate?

[grim gyro]

his ship was positioned like this

there was probably more overhang but it shouldnt have been nearly enough to just fly out

[mild gazelle]

I'd like your thoughts on my ion cruiser as well. What do you think I need to do to make it better against sheilds? I do currently have only two dialation pumps, should I be taking out ions to add dialation pumps?

[crimson osprey]

So probably probably turned right, slid a little, then hit your hook and rotated off. Seems reasonable

[mild gazelle]

what can OC ions to better to have a better chance against avoiders/walls?

[crimson osprey]

Gotta load it up

[crimson osprey]

Also, why does that question sound like a trap?

[mild gazelle]

uh idk I didn't mean for it to be a trap

[grim gyro]

not with 15 overclocked boost and 5 huge thrusters turning him further into it if he had a slight overhang

[mild gazelle]

genuine question, I don't know what I can really improve significantly

maybe if I was able to pilot better and aim at one part of the avoider for a significant period of time I'd do better, but that's really hard

[grim gyro]

i think the new drag curve is WAY too steep, i would much prefer something between the old and new

[crimson osprey]

Nah it makes sense that they got away. It was good piloting plus the floatier drag equation on a very fast ship. Fortunately, plenty of other ships making the rounds aren't that quick, so you should be able to stay on them fairly reliably. However, staying where you want and maintaining locks will be harder, and that's a good thing

[grim gyro]

The new drag is such a huge change. I think it was in the right direction, it just went way past what was necessary. The first thing i did when i heard about drag changes was to load this in and check the speed. It used to go 270, now 175

[mild gazelle]

I really like the drag changes, it makes pvp speed not as opressive

[grim gyro]

part of the drag changes means that small and standard thrusters are a lot more useful now, which also in part nerfs TB as the quicker response time allows for fast reaction to being flipped.

[grim gyro]

I like where it was going, just not how extreme of a change it is

[mild gazelle]

two dialation pumps (bottom) vs 6 dialation pumps (top) didn't seem to make much of a difference tbh

[crimson osprey]

I think this one merits some testing. Your ion core is a fair bit stronger than the last one and you have a single TRB with a couple dilations. Avoiders are squirlier than ever and can break off to recharge so fast you can't count on using reverse to make aiming easier.

For damage, it's totally worth looking at whether dropping ions for more dilations is better against shields. few ions means better combination ratios out of the same size aperture as well. It comes down to whether the TRB can make up the difference.

For precision, I'd suggest exploring lateral OC boost thrust. That could make aiming quite a bit easier.

I see a lot worth trying but those are my initial thoughts. This is the kind of work I'm hoping to see in order to help us gauge the strength of ion archetypes better. If people are doing everything they can and they're still in a poor place, that means we have to change something. I know OC large shields are raising an eyebrow and this helps to see

[mild gazelle]

I do have a funny core, 8 of my 20 ions aren't OC'd

[crimson osprey]

Oh, interesting

[mild gazelle]

just sacrificed some armor for 6 pumps

I couldn't sustain the heat of all of my ions OC'd so I chose that

it seems to be working out

[crimson osprey]

Yeah, do some dummy tests against static shields and see what the difference is

[mild gazelle]

I'll have to look at lateral oc boost fs

[crimson osprey]

Yeah, even one per side should greatly increase your handling. Looking at your center of gravity, it'll do quite a bit

[granite sapphire]

god damn it i WONT add more radiators

[cunning swift]

I worry that the nature of overclocking will result in alpha/bursty ships being far too strong, this was already a complaint with the meta previously iirc but making weapons way stronger and balancing them only by making them harder to sustain long term seems like a recipe for disaster. It doesn't matter if you burn down as long as you've already eviscerated your opponent

[carmine heron]

@thorny glade

[granite sapphire]

yea i mentioned too there needs to be a more immediate consequence to overheating

to prevent this from becoming a thing

parts rubbling is good but its a very rare thing and requires a ton of heat

[mild gazelle]

im ngl I'm not seeing any affect of dialators in combat testing besides making aoe bigger. I'll have to test more officially tomorrow.

[granite sapphire]

dilators so worth guys

[cunning swift]

is that not all they do?

[bitter steppe]

Fires don't damage parts in the same way the ydid before, but they sure do cook crew. If you overheat, you're likely to cook all of your crew as they try to put out the fires and end up losing anyway

[granite sapphire]

theyre supposed to increase the strength of the shield debuff

[mild gazelle]

quix was saying they make sheild debuff stronger

or at least that's what I think he was sayign

[granite sapphire]

it says in the trb stats too

[bitter steppe]

Correct CGT

[mild gazelle]

I'll do real testing tomorrow I was just running my ions against each other in battle helper

[grim gyro]

relevant

[mild gazelle]

yeaaa alpha ships are kinda annoying but you can just not fight them

[cunning swift]

not if you're playing in a tournament

[mild gazelle]

oh forgot about those

[bitter steppe]

I can't remember who asked earlier but the thing with using 1 beam vs 2 is that when you debuff shields the strongest beam effect overwrites any others and they don't stack. so if your primary goal with the TRB is to debuff shields it's better to use one strong beam

[crimson osprey]

Yeah lets keep an eye on this

[mild gazelle]

vibe testing is fun

lol

[granite sapphire]

yea i got that part

[bitter steppe]

but if you want to do damage or apply more heat it's not bad to run more than 1, and adding a few amp pumps even if you're only debuffing still goes a long way

[crimson osprey]

These kinds of ships are pretty helpful for testing. We WANT to break things. I can't tell you how many times We (mostly I) broke TRBs during testing

[mild gazelle]

lol

[grim gyro]

OC small lasers for one need a nerf

[crimson osprey]

They just had one, among other things. If they remain too strong, we'll find a way to fix it

[lusty zealot]

you and rekyu were certainly giving celeste's work some prime stresstests

[granite sapphire]

@vague aurora have you experimented with oc ion capacitors? their lack of damage falloff might make them surprisingly powerful

[lusty zealot]

i think they still have combination falloff, which is the primary limiter on ion cap effectiveness

though i don't think they have the overkill issues (at least not as severely) thanks to lightning

[granite sapphire]

ok @crimson osprey i have built an entirely new ion rammer with your exacting instructions aka 1 trb with 8 dilators, and far greater investment into ions. i also ditched my "smattering" of tcms as you implied. would you say this is a functional ship that should be capable of dealing damage to overclocked large shields now

[lusty zealot]

lack of range falloff does mean you can hold an OC ion charge indefinitely

[granite sapphire]

yeah and obviously the laser itself can be fired at max range and do full damage

which i think is important

[granite sapphire]

lmao i can barely even break my own ocls setup

that so funny

dude

i cant even break my OWN defense

[bitter steppe]

try adding a few amps

[granite sapphire]

sorry i dont make the rules

plus dilators are better for shield debuff

and apparently thats all im allowed to build for if i want to be able to kill ocls ships

[bitter steppe]

according to...?

[granite sapphire]

quix

anyways dilators add +50% dilation which is multipled by 50% for around 25% stronger shield debuff per pump and amps add +110% amp which is multiplied by 1.3% for roughly like 14% per amp

[bitter steppe]

Okay, but consider that by increasing the effective area you are only spreading the same amount of damage over a larger area

[granite sapphire]

thats not relevant in the slightest vs shields

the debuff only affects the one shield the actual beam of the trb is hitting im quite sure

[bitter steppe]

nope

you should see the sparkle effects on the shields and the arc color when debuffed

especially when using overlapped shields like that

[granite sapphire]

ok well that means its even better to spam dilators

[lusty zealot]

as far as i know, the debuff isn't diluted by hitting multiple shields

[granite sapphire]

i dont really care how much damage the trb is doing, im only using it for the debuff as i mentioned and what quix himself advised

[dark lily]

@crimson osprey

[granite sapphire]

theres no damage to spread thin, its just the debuff

so i should just spam dilators

[granite sapphire]

.

[bitter steppe]

Quix made a suggestion, why not try mine?

[granite sapphire]

i mean quix is backed by the games stats

:/

[bitter steppe]

...

[granite sapphire]

i mean sorry

can you just explain how amps would help vs shields

is it for the inherent heating

[crimson osprey]

I'm testing your ship right now against itself and I can definitely drop your defenses with it

[granite sapphire]

it takes a while and thats with perfectly focused damage

[crimson osprey]

Didn't you say you couldn't even break your own defenses? Or was that hyperbole

[granite sapphire]

ah, i forgot to autofire the defending ions

oopsie

[lusty zealot]

minor oopsies

[narrow owl]

I use OC capacitors with large reactors to get infinite sustain and instant pick-up at the cost of using twice as many crew, downside is I only use 2 shields instead of 4 so I'm weak to emps, that's why I also fit flaks

Oh yeah the shields aren't OC

That's what I like

[prisma dock]

What's the rationale behind only allowing heat pipe access points where doors would go? Heat logistics is already hard enough, I'd say.

[dark lily]

Intuition and accessibility. You don't have to learn new relevant locations for all the parts

Thermal Resonance Beams and Thermal Canister Missiles are exceptions because they're designed around Thermal integration, while the rest of parts are not

[prisma dock]

I understand your argument, but having some ship parts where heat & crew compete and some where they don't is also not intuitive.

[dark lily]

My statement was but the rationale

[prisma dock]

I would not mind learning a few new locations related to heat, if it meant that we can create more neat designs.

[prisma dock]

Right. Thx for the answer.

It would also be intuitive that the heat piping goes where, in this instance above, the machinery of the shield generator is, rather than where the crew space would be.

[bitter steppe]

it would be really convenient to be able to connect pipes in more places, but there's a balance between convenience and challenge where logistics that are too simplified, like wireless power for example, takes away the fun challenge of figuring out how to make them work

which goes back to the answer Saris gave for the rationale of current placement

[plucky fossil]

deck cannon beta ships still viable!! try some old ships? they might surprise you especially w/ speed changes

[plucky fossil]

and in tournet the opponent can hotkey -> boost -> autofire and get in range immediately, when time to target/prepare is already insanely short with 1x speed changes

[plucky fossil]

amp increases the direct heat gain of the shield - only 4% (iirc) is transferred directly though and it tends not to matter a whole lot unless u touch for a really long time

[plucky fossil]

what old pvp ships are you using? can you show

[lusty gulch]

what does SignificanceToggle do? @ Celeste?

[regal plume]

Damn, that sucks
Was looking forward to fighting OC ships

Fringe OC in particular seems cool

[next urchin]

Stops the game considering that part or its components when checking whether a ship should be junked

Significance = false is basically telling the game "pretend this part is dead"

[lusty gulch]

nice