Meltdown Update Preview

[wraith flicker]

does the same exact ship but with huge ships mod enabled have increased radiation?

how does radiator work exactly for that to happen if so?

[floral saffron]

its speed is dependent on the size of the build grid (probably by mistake) so if you have huge ships on they're way better than they're supposed to be

[wraith flicker]

lmfao

has that already been reported as a bug?

[floral saffron]

probably

[wraith flicker]

wait they changed the appearance of fire to make it more cartoonish??

[floral saffron]

I think thats just the indicator

but like thats also broken right now they don't go away sometimes

a lot of things are broken

[wraith flicker]

the fact you can just set your ships on fire at will now is funny (if its not built for overclocking / heat dissipation)

what does this icon mean

[static meteor]

it's scorched

doesn't work anymore

[wraith flicker]

so like an inbetween of tile being completely destroyed, and still Walkable?

when destruction is via fire?

[floral saffron]

its not destroyed just disabled

and you make it work again by repairing

basically

[wraith flicker]

lol

if all your airlocks get scorched is there even a solution to that
fly to the nearest station if you can and have them repair for you?

[floral saffron]

i mean its probably the same as if you get your airlock destroyed normally

[wraith flicker]

fair
I guess I don't experience that ever lol

[floral saffron]

actually im surprised that hasnt happened to me yet I don't think I've had problems with getting my airlock blown up

[weary sparrow]

wich built in ships are the faster?

just for me to test something

[wraith flicker]

for a second I thought you meant starter ships
I have no clue for ships in general

[floral saffron]

yeah no idea

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1331388126613995591/1338292129071497329/2025-02-10_00_30_23.gif

[wraith flicker]

LMFAO????

[floral saffron]

microwave

[wraith flicker]

the fact the attacking ship melts in the process is so funny to me

[floral saffron]

you set your ship and their ship on fire

[wraith flicker]

someone didn't build enough heat dissipation /silly

[tranquil wedge]

Yea this was before some trb nerfs though

[floral saffron]

I feel like you could probably still do this just with a much bigger ship

building the death star with this one

[bitter steppe]

Nope, we made sure you can't lol

[floral saffron]

damn 😭

[wraith flicker]

is there a cap on dilation then?

[carmine heron]

No fun

[floral saffron]

not even with huge ships?

I feel like you should be able to do that with like a hundred million dollar ship

[carmine heron]

That's a lot of money

[floral saffron]

yeah

enough money to make it reasonable to be able to flash fry ships

[bitter steppe]

You can definitely still make huge beams that do tons of damage, but nothing like that gif from early alpha testing when it was completely broken

but there are diminishing returns that you eventually run into that prevent them from scaling up to be too insane

[floral saffron]

they should make it so like its completely unreasonable to do stuff like that except still technically possible

just for funny

[wraith flicker]

oh wait do you mean the giant visual effect that fried everything not visible? lmao

[floral saffron]

is there a formula for this

[bitter steppe]

not that I know of, it's complicated coding stuff

[floral saffron]

I found this

but I dont know what numbers amplification and dilation are based on

[bitter steppe]

Amp and Dilation can be increased with pumps

[floral saffron]

yeah ik but is it like 1 per pump

or is there a number for this

[ashen basin]

read the pump description

[bitter steppe]

Amp is 110% per pump and Dilation is 25/50% if you connect both ports

it's on the tooltips for the pumps

[wraith flicker]

where is the diminishing returns for it?

is it the per pump thing diminishes and isn't truly 110% per and 25%/50% per, or?

[quasi meteor]

I'm confused by shield damage power cost

[wraith flicker]

it might be about how much power it drains from shields it hits?

[bitter steppe]

or the effect it applies to shields it hits

[floral saffron]

where is the diminishing returns

if this is it then it would just be linear

[bitter steppe]

it's a complicated scaling formula in the game code, idk what else to tell you

For any more detailed explanation you'd have to ask the devs

[wicked lotus]

So, anyone care to explain why if this gets hit in the front with a Nuke, one of the overcharged shields explodes, but the rest of the ship remains intact? Presumably the heat generation instantly fried it inside the ship from blocking so much damage, but like, it is part of the heat network and the heat storage only gets half full.

[delicate vigil]

Probably just can't draw the heat out of the shield fast enough

[wicked lotus]

Do we like, have some data as far as what the network is capable of drawing? Unless I am missing something, that isn't explained and it shouldn't overheat/take damage until the network is overloaded.

[delicate vigil]

Idk

[floral saffron]

pretty sure heat pipes have infinite throughput

[twilit matrix]

Oh, come on! I left for a vacation literally hours before this released! Ah well, I guess I'll have to catch up with it today.

[wicked lotus]

I figured as much too but the shield disintegrating says otherwise.

Feel free to throw a nuke at it and see.

[floral saffron]

might just be like beta jank

a lot of other things are broken

[wicked lotus]

Fair, or maybe someone more thoroughly knowledgeable with it all knows what is up, idk.

[static meteor]

could you post the ship.png?

[wicked lotus]

That should be it above no?

[static meteor]

nope

[wicked lotus]

So what, do you need the screencap of the blueprints or something then?
Just using the screenshot system built in.

[twilit matrix]

Okay - could some kind person summarize the changes or link to a changelog?

[static meteor]

open the ship folder and just drag the image into discord

[static meteor]

awesome, thanks

[wicked lotus]

I do love exchangers and how OC small objects can be used remotely. Super neat design wise.

Also, even just a single OC Ion beam is a real threat. It may not get through shields alone but the arcing lightning gets around and destroys them from the sides, paired with a Prism and becomes unbelievably flexible. Picks apart a ship a bit at a time if needed.

[static meteor]

on the ship you posted, the shields aren't connected directly to the network because of the pipe crossing

[wicked lotus]

Oh, forgot to save the updated version lol...

my b

I did realize walkable pipelines do not function as connecting to side devices and fixed it earlier.

[quasi meteor]

trying out overclocked cannons. big fan of the large one. not a huge fan of the small one

[twilit matrix]

Just fired up the preview - is there no tech requirement for the heat stuff?

[wicked lotus]

Changes to thrusters seem to have lowered the bar for reaching a speed of 100~, but with vastly diminshing returns afterwards. I don't even have a lot of thrusters on that mildly bulky ship for its size to reach that speed going forward.

[twilit matrix]

And within one minute, I've already managed to crash it! Awesome!

[eager gyro]

it'i'd be nice if we could conect radiators like this

[static meteor]

the battery fills up completely for me

[twilit matrix]

Critical bug report time!

[eager gyro]

deck cannon?

[wicked lotus]

It wasn't for me but if that is the case alright, maybe I just didn't notice it right away....

[near flax]

yes, however crew reaction time is very important for shields, far away shields may benefit from an OC capacitor and nearby crew to functionally increase the amount of energy storage the shields have

[twilit matrix]

Nope. Game crash with ConfigurePartForFavoriting.

[near flax]

shields like to have crew and power close by

[twilit matrix]

Is there something that I should be aware of for that?

[near flax]

this is why on many pvp ships you see shields (especially large shields) adjacent to the reactor or very close

I'll post examples in a sec

[quasi meteor]

I like that radiators can be connected to each other instead as a compromise

[near flax]

examples, small shields have a good supply line and large shields have a good supply line and are as close as possible

[twilit matrix]

Do deck cannons have a known problem or something?

[weary sparrow]

Did you ever saw M.I.B? When will smith uses the little alien gun? Well, atm overcloccked deck guns are quite similar, but without the kick back.

[wicked lotus]

So, 1 OC shield seems to take right about 5k heat from a Nuke before breaking. 2 therefore fills a whole Thermal Battery. If you have any heat in the system those parts take damage and potentially fry.

I tried turning off some OC shields and tanking Nukes again and that is about what it turns into. Having 3+ OC shields means the Nuke damage hits them all and overloads my systems, so it is actually better to just have 2 OC shield in the case of overwhelming damage.

[plucky fossil]

heat decreases penetration resistance and also increases damage dealt to the part

[twilit matrix]

I don't even know what overclocking is.

I managed to crash the preview within two minutes of opening it.

[weary sparrow]

Dang

[twilit matrix]

And I just got back from a weekend away, so I haven't been up to date with any of this.

(The preview opened literally four hours after I left, so I'm as behind the times as is possible)

[plucky fossil]

it is meant to be infinite

[near flax]

crash the game on their new mode, overclocked, which allows them to perform outside of their normal opperating range (makes them stronger) but they generate heat you need to get rid of

deck cannons are so strong they crash the game

[plucky fossil]

#1019741923893858305

[twilit matrix]

What's an operating range?

[weary sparrow]

Long story short:

Almost every module are now able to be overclocked, once you overclock a module it gives you either a new mechanic or a bonus depending on the module, but it also generates heat that you need to dissipate trough radiators or storage with heat batteries to storage the heat.

[twilit matrix]

I counter with: https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1019741923893858305/threads/1371507165294235719

[twilit matrix]

Good to know.

[plucky fossil]

mobile is not opening anything - is it meant to link a thread ?

[twilit matrix]

Yes.

I've already submitted a report there.

[wraith flicker]

desktop it isn't opening a specific thing either
just the bug reports channel as a whole

[twilit matrix]

Huh.
https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1371507165294235719

Does this work?

[weary sparrow]

Small thrusters and PD when overclocked generate a bit of energy which is quite cool if you may ask xD

[twilit matrix]

Cool! Or hot, rather. But didn't small thrusters do that already, though?

[plucky fossil]

small thrust already does that

[weary sparrow]

Wait, really? I must have missed that as I tend to only build big ships so I rarely touch the small thrusters :v

[wraith flicker]

https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1019741923893858305/threads/1371507165294235719vs
https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1371507165294235719
1st is the one that didn't work 2nd is the one you sent that did work
somehow 1019741923893858305/threads/ got inserted in the middle of it ig

[twilit matrix]

Yeah, I saw. Odd.

I guess you can't just copy from the search bar, then.

[eager gyro]

they can be?

wait nevermind i miss read that

[wintry kite]

They can, but they are activated one after another

[plucky fossil]

nuh uh

i don't really understand how the game chooses but it's definitely not like that

[carmine heron]

Its probably random which ones activate first but if need be they can all activate at the same time

[twilit matrix]

Is there a description of what overclock does for each part?

Ah, found it.

The description was almost too tall to fit on my screen.

[narrow blade]

did this get updated

im assuming not as the game still crashes from deconstructing ANYTHING

[delicate moss]

I'm kind of torn about using overclock tech in my custom faction project, because as much as the tech really aligns with their ships, the idea of things getting rebalanced and all of the ships catching fire is dreadful

I'm not really sure how much heat generation/dissipation/storage numbers are going to be changed from the preview to full release

[narrow blade]

i think somethings horribly wrong with the ai

for some reason when im using a model m in career the enemy just flies away from me and like doesnt even try to attack me (it attacks if im infront of it)

[twilit matrix]

I think I'm done trying out the preview, after about 10 minutes of play-time. It looks fun, but there are some problems.

I love the idea of overheating, heat management, and heat weaponization. The idea of using waste heat for something positive (for you; negative for your enemy) is very creative. The graphics on the new components look great!

However, there are some downsides.

Opening the game causes my computer's fans to engage; playing the game spins up the fans to their maximum speed and volume. Even then, my computer heats to an uncomfortable degree. I generally believe that if my computer is uncomfortable to touch for a prolonged time it is under too much strain - and that was happening here.

Even with the computer running hot, I experienced lag and stuttering even in the starter system - while mining an asteroid, flying the starter ship, with no enemies in radar range! If even that is too much for my computer, I'm afraid that progressing further in the game may be implausible for me.

Furthermore, I've already caused the game to crash for two separate reasons - in the first 10 minutes. Basic actions - interacting with the UI and refitting the start ship - caused the game to crash precipitiously. While - as a computer science student - I fully understand and sympathise with the difficulty of working with object references, I as an end user have a limited ability to edit the code to resolve a null reference exception.

All in all, this puts a bit of a damper on my enthusiasm. However, I will gladly reassess the update when it reaches a more stable and playable state! Cosmoteer has been an intermittent part of my life for years now, and some of my best memories of hanging out with friends in high school were while playing Cosmoteer. I'm looking forward to seeing this game develop into a more polished product!

[quasi meteor]

love that

I think the overclocked shields are going to be a very big deal

[narrow blade]

ngl the ships are unbearable to direct control for some reason

[flat skiff]

if OCDC are a bit overtuned, has the stun radius/duration been changed?

[worn hound]

they withstand some hefty damage

this is for a large heavily overclocked ship that needs a lot of heat dissipation, so i couldn't just hide enough radiators in gaps in the armor

[little yew]

Can heat flow through e.g. thrusters or only through heat pipes?

[regal wharf]

So long as the green arrows line up everything should flow through each other I believe

[little yew]

👍

[quasi meteor]

oh I thought this wasn't the case

[eternal ibex]

Only through pipes

What jarhead said is wrong

[delicate moss]

Wait really? I thought flowthrough was only a dissipator thing

[regal wharf]

Really?

[wicked lotus]

I haven't had any lag at all with it so far, though admittedly it's a small sample size for time.

[quasi meteor]

it's so joever

[eternal ibex]

The only exceptions are radiators, thermal canister launchers, and thermal resonance turrents

[regal wharf]

That's it, banning myself forever

[quasi meteor]

the TURRETS are flow-through??

that is funny

[eternal ibex]

yes, because they are considered “heat parts”

[twilit matrix]

(I finished editing it now)

[wicked lotus]

Theoretically, if someone wanted to be dumb, would Thermal Betteries count connecting 2 lengths of walkable pipes? Just being silly here.

[eternal ibex]

technically yes they should

[wicked lotus]

lol.

But yeah, the more I tested things, the more I realized that this OC stuff is basically reinforcing/boosting a smaller number of systems, lowering the spam of large quantities of systems we have been seeing for so long. It comes with risks, but also benefits.

I think it is a good thing so far, and I imagine once we work things out more for certain weapons balance(OC DC I am talking about you), Broadsiders will be more common. Having a long ship with a pipeline going the length of it, and reinforcing a handful of powerful weapons on each side. Should be cool and I plan to try and do that next.

Interestingly, that also allows for putting Radiators on both ends of a long ship, so even if it breaks in the middle, it doesn't kill the system entirely. You could even have a single heat taxing item as the core of a long ship, connected to 2 different heating systems. That would be neat.

[delicate moss]

So I'm a little confused here, apparently engine rooms that are overclocked will overclock adjacent engines right? So why don't these other parts seem to be overclocked?

ohh wait ok nevermind, the room needs to be powered for the overclock to take effect

Also as for this description, the "ramp time exponent" is like a multiplier right? I feel like saying "Ramp-up time: -40%" would be a little clearer

[hard orbit]

An exponent is a much bigger decrease. E.g. say you have 10 extenders. Non-overclocked thats 10x ramp up time. with over clock it is 10^0.6 = 3.98

What is the algorithm that determines where a parts heat goes? Currently if a part is connected to multiple disconnected thermal systems one may expect that the parts heat will get split between the connected thermal systems evenly but instead it seems at least sometimes all of the heat gets dumped into one of the the part's connected thermal systems.

[plucky fossil]

seems like you computers needs more radiators ;)

[delicate moss]

ohh, ok I see now

[boreal estuary]

it seems there is a new bug in this version which isnt related to heat but rather it makes crew members which carryx batteries change their mind and go elsewhere halfway through walking to certain parts
for example i had a single piece of railgun which got refilled once and then they just kept goig backwards towards the engines

[hard orbit]

That might be intentional if the other parts have higher priority and there are no other available closer crew.

[static meteor]

pvp players call this pretasking

[near flax]

i would check your crew priorities

[near flax]

sorta, pretasking does use crew task switching but pretasking is specifically using a lower priority, power using part to get crew moving so they can get to the higher priority part before it loses power

for example using an autofired point defense to get crew already in an engine room

youre like 9/10ths of the way theyre with your understanding tbh, im just pedantic

[static meteor]

honestly the last 1/10th is just me being lazy and not feeling like explaining it properly like you did

[near flax]

yeah thats fair

i named the tech (but didnt create it) so i like to be clear about how it works

[twilit matrix]

It's a little hard to install those on a laptop, unfortunately.

[alpine needle]

Not sure if this has been said before but you cant find the Thermal rocket peaces in the Doodads menu

[minor valve]

funny idea, heat buildup in the sun area, so you both are torn to shreds by solar winds and burned to death

[molten gust]

This is an interesting tooltip

[marsh aurora]

We need widen tooltips with 2 columns to show the info of such things. It starts to be too long

[molten gust]

Agreed

[marsh aurora]

https://discordapp.com/channels/314103695568666625/1371558490782437578

[molten gust]

I think the Damage area is the difference maker on the lasers?

Also, is it just me, or are crew members moving waaaay slower with energy?

I know they want the game to run better at 1x, but it feels sluggish

[little yew]

Is there a limit on dilation for thermal resonance beams?

[narrow owl]

https://youtu.be/TaBGxn1tbYA

I recorded myself playing career to find some feedback, were fires always that deadly ? I added an extra fire extinguisher but got annihilated by a fire from a small cannon. Also rts AI being incredibly unpredictable.

I still found myself pausing as much as when I'm playing casually (aka not recording in a cinematic way) and I found myself wanting to press x2 a lot because it was slow af. Defenseless ennemies taking ages to finish off.

[frosty sedge]

OC Railgun range is dramatically shorter than it should be on long rails

[tranquil wedge]

yea thats already reported

[plucky fossil]

true :( i have a shitty laptop too, but it's holding up ok for now

[grizzled sentinel]

max 600m?

[carmine heron]

I haven't been home in a bit (will be later today) so ive had to play on a pretty damn shitty laptop. Honestly ran pretty good

[near flax]

getting the loading new stuff screen every time i load

[plucky fossil]

anyone getting insane lag spikes with overclock tiny thrust?

well not just a lag spike

big lag in general

[carmine heron]

Nop

I made a large ship that uses oc small for all directions but forward and no lag at all

Largish ship*

[plucky fossil]

\👍

may be mp probalem idk

or maybe amd problem

[carmine heron]

Not amd I'm pretty sure

Maybe mp tho

[lusty zealot]

well, ships don't (past a point) move at full speed. i'd probably suggest a ~25% reduction in storm lightning frequency?

[plucky fossil]

qqqqqqq

game crash

[tranquil wedge]

its all airs fault

[near flax]

unsure if this has been reported but reactors arent taken into account in the build mode heat generation calculation

[delicate moss]

Engine rooms can't be overclocked right? I was thinking of trying to overclock a MRT stack thing I made like this a while ago but there doesn't seem to be any way to route the heat elsewhere without causing breakages in the MRT stack

[near flax]

auto fire thrust on this and itll overheat even though according to the game it shouldnt

[near flax]

they can be overclocked, messing with it rn

[delicate moss]

oh well, there's the MRT stack in question lol

[tranquil wedge]

they dont consider er heat increase

[near flax]

they do, if they didnt it would be a lot lot more then barely over

[regal plume]

So, trying the new overclock system...
It's not obvious what the heat capacities of things are.
Nor is it obvious how much heat they currently have in them

[static meteor]

most things have 0 heat capacity

[regal plume]

what does "absorption inefficiency" mean?
heat absorbed goes up by 40% when entering the pipe?

[static meteor]

yeah

[fallow spade]

Phalanx 6ish, meltdown version
Probably needs more crew...

[tranquil wedge]

Oh ups

[little yew]

I can't wait for career but having to seriously think of heat in combat

[near flax]

i love this

[near flax]

yup!

[regal plume]

hmm
overclock needs a hotkey

[hard orbit]

I think it will be mostly overclocked shields that will cook peoples' ships since they can generate a huge spike of heat when taking a lot of damage.

[regal plume]

fire appears after how much heat?

[inner elm]

Imo, I think changing it so that specifically shields only take half damage from ion storms would be better. It was already difficult to make specialized ships that survive in them, and now it's incredibly more so.

[lusty zealot]

you can set one

[lusty zealot]

aye, their defensive capabilities are based more on your thermal system than your power system, which i love

[static meteor]

the chance scales from 0 to 0.5 and value scales from 0 to 1 as heat scales from 350 to 2500

ticking every 0.5 seconds

[regal plume]

tries to figure out how best to communicate that to the user...

[plucky fossil]

#1371211274268049409

[regal plume]

hmm
definitely punches a bit above weightclass...
What are people's current guesses for weightclass multiplier with OC?

[narrow owl]

Overclock is great

[plucky fossil]

it really seems to depend actually

one of my ships i made in the beta of deck cannons is doing ok against non-alpha ships when i am not having piloting skill issue

[near flax]

TRT has no firing arc stat

[narrow owl]

Catastrophic cooling failure

[near flax]

its fireproof

*very fire resistant

behold! fire proof to a stupid degree

[kind estuary]

This sounds like a challenge

[near flax]

it is

[narrow owl]

I think some piped armor would be great

[near flax]

nah, having pipes be fragile is an interesting design challenge

[narrow owl]

I meant armor that could evacuate heat towards pipes directly

to avoid the absorber inneficiency

[pale python]

I think exchangers just need a radius and speed buff and price nerf

Can be used more defensively but still kinda bad if usin instead of pipes because of efficiency

[near flax]

disagree

[narrow owl]

also I don't think armor should disintegrate upon being superheated

it's a solid chunk of metal after all

I think a damage vulnerability is more appropriate

[vague aurora]

Wait, that Equalizer?!

[vague aurora]

I have never seen you in the community before.

[narrow owl]

?

[vague aurora]

#1370799036591898837 message I made my point clear

[lusty zealot]

both

they already have a damage vulnerability

[hard orbit]

I'm going to randomly guess overclocking when optimized will give a 50% cost effectiveness boost. i.e. An overclocked 1m ship will be comparable to a 1.5m ship.

[lusty zealot]

and metal can in fact melt

[narrow owl]

yeah but it's in space there's no gravity to make the metal go away

[lusty zealot]

that...isn't necessary for it to go away?

[narrow owl]

How much energy you need to vaporise a 1x1x1 meter block of solid steel

[lusty zealot]

not as much as you need to melt it and let entropy and momentum carry away the goop

and besides, it's not like this game is greatly realistic in any other manner

real rocket engines need fuel, energy shields don't exist, etc

i think it's fine for heat to deal damage to armour

[narrow owl]

Beside realism, I don't think it's balanced either

[narrow owl]

armor takes too much damage is my problem

[lusty zealot]

if it didn't, the TRT would be restricted to only being a support weapon, which isn't great

[narrow owl]

Canisters are my main concern

[lusty zealot]

in what way?

[twilit matrix]

Heating it will impart some outward velocity as the metal vaporises and expands.

[marsh aurora]

After reading all this feedback and the suggestion for meltdown preview. Is there something that you already know that you want to change?

[lusty zealot]

armour taking too much heat damage is something that could be changed, i do recall floating an idea to give it heat damage resistance similar to its explosion resistance

[narrow owl]

They feel too powerful, they are very powerful weapons and basically bails you out of you heat problems

a few of them can decimate your armor

[lusty zealot]

i haven't actually seen them be greatly effective as weapons, but yeah they are definitely too good as heat venting

[regal plume]

has a toggleable "heat overlay" or somesuch been suggested for the ship design screen?
would be great to see at a glance what items have heat enabled and toggle them at a click

[lusty zealot]

the intent is to give railguns an alternate use other than railfanning, as it's currently the only real way to use them

[lusty zealot]

that really looks to be more the OC lasers than the TCMs doing the heavy lifting

[robust hound]

I'm just really enjoying how much this preview is shaking up builds, and making ships more interesting.

[pale python]

I'm gonna see if i can find things to improve for modding in terms of existing .rules changes and see if i can poke Celeste about it

[regal plume]

overclocked power capacitors are amazing

[marsh aurora]

Could we get an explanation of how the new status effects work. Afterreading the code, I couldn't undestand very much the math behind it, specially heat.

Fire
Fire can have up to 75 health. I guess that hp is used on exinguish to kill it.
Parts need to lose 75% of their health to be at max scorch??
It takes 80s for a part with 1000 hp per tile and all in fire to reach max scorch.
Fire deals up to 9 damage per second at max scorch??
It has a 40% chance affected by something else to spread, but can't spread on foam??
It has a 16% chance affected by something else to kill crew.

Fire Foam
No idea when it appears, but it prevents fire from spreading.

Scorched
When something is in fire, it somehow can become scorched, gaining resistance to fire but it loses restance from other stuff?

Heat
It reduces resistance by 1.25% scaling somehow multiplicatively but with 0.75 exponent.
It somehow reduces penetration resistance.
It deals someone thermal damage and then reduce itself?
It has some chance to apply fire?

[lusty zealot]

fire foam appears when fire extinguishers extinguish fire

[regal plume]

this update allows for some interesting design choices...
the incredibly narrow shield gives an interesting design constraint... Will you accept some side chip damage for an invulnerable centre-front?

[lusty zealot]

i just love seeing the different ways people make thermal systems

it's awesome

[regal plume]

power cores overclock compensating hard for that extra travel distance 😄

[lusty zealot]

that with overclocked capacitor for more power per battery

[regal plume]

Without overclock it wouldn't be viable, the reloading of the heavy laser and shield would be far too flow
Probably even with double the crew

[near flax]

yeah, but the TCM make it possible and kinda carve the way for the lasers

[little yew]

Converted my railfan design into something of a "fuck you!" throws a wall of bricks design.
It does bring overclocked railgun balance into quesion #1370966033028087919 message

[lusty zealot]

they are very powerful, but should be a lot harder to hit moving targets with

[little yew]

Small problem: This ship is stupid fast and will always be the one chased

[lusty zealot]

mmm, i suppose they're pretty good on kites

more testing is required, please do send feedback and examples

[little yew]

Is there a place I can send this blueprint, along with the non-overclock variant of it, for the devs to compare?

Just the ideas channel?

[lusty zealot]

here

[little yew]

right now I need to find the folder those are saved in again...

[lusty zealot]

pins in #ships

[little yew]

Well it's through proton so I need to find the virtual C drive first

[lusty zealot]

ah

[little yew]

This test was both pitted against an Auriga, with Reverse Hyperdash (new; left) being a straight upgrade in combat effectiveness over Wavedash (right).

Once in range, the new design shredded Auriga like cheese in a way the old one couldn't dream of.

[gaunt sierra]

Thermal dynamics update

[little yew]

Also, I've found that building small ships around overclocking forces you always to overclock because space is so much more valuable on the smaller ships.

[gaunt sierra]

My reactor can go Chernobyl?

[granite sapphire]

meltdown rc ship using 20 overclocked ions, 4 overclocked large shields, and 2 trbs

[marsh aurora]

I just realized that Shields code got modified and now there is a modifier in Arc and ResourceDrainPerDamage to make overclock work.
It would be very useful if you also allow modders to use modifier in the Radius and Penetration Resistance
🙏

[granite sapphire]

can be easily fully vented by the 8 tcms

[regal plume]

wow, shields and the power battery overclock are kinda nuts...
this very unoptimized thing is punching noticeably above weight class (while also being pretty maneuverable)
The power capacitor contains the equivalent of 545,000hp in extremely quickly usable form.
Shields being 3x as energy efficient with 3x hp is probably too much. (maybe a hefty constant power drain like 0.2 per second might get them to a less invincible level?)
And power capacitors could go down to size 2 batteries with no power capacity boost and I'd still be happy to overclock them.

[little yew]

Seems like the devs underestimated overclocking a bit lol

[lusty zealot]

OC shields are better dealt with thermally rather than energetically

looking at your radiators, you aren't too far off overheating there

a big volley could very easily cause big fires

though OC shields are slightly too powerful rn, we're looking at raising their heat generation from damage by a bit

[regal plume]

looks like it might need to be larger than things in weight class can deliver 🤔

the heat battery gives a bit of leeway...

[lusty zealot]

true

are the lasers overclocked btw?

[regal plume]

yup

it's close to max

if hit hard enough and quickly enough

but you need a LOT

[lusty zealot]

a single nuke would probably cause that thing to entirely immolate

and anyway, overclocking's definitely more effective on smaller ships

it's just the square cube law in action

[delicate moss]

It just dawned on me that heat in Cosmoteer is a lot like Flux in Starsector
-Built up by firing weapons or receiving shield damage
-Options to build more capacitors or more vents
-Vents out with blue flames
-Overloading leaves you crippled and vulnerable

It's honestly so similar that I've started subconsciously calling it flux instead of heat

[lone crest]

so now that its been a bit

heat cannon, how crew effecient is it when compared to other weapons like ion beams n stuff, per damage output?

[lusty zealot]

It Very Depends™️

[delicate moss]

My method to figuring that out is trying a career run with the weapon and seeing if it's effective

for example, deck guns are really great and if you design competently it's almost impossible to die, but they require a LOT of crew to be able to sustain fire beyond a couple shots

missiles have annoying and complex logistics, and the enemy having the right defenses can make missiles have a much worse time, but otherwise missiles can be really powerful and are easy to hide behind defense

[lone crest]

hmmmm

testing seems to point towards TRTs being very good

[lusty zealot]

they do kinda suck vs shields though

[delicate moss]

they are ass against shields tbh

which I honestly like because a lot of weapons are great against them but not armor, so now we have a weapon that's actually bad against shields but good against armor

[regal plume]

How are OC power capacitors looking to you guys atm?
They seem to be what really lets the shields tank
None OC shields fed by a capacitor are likely to be a big step up, though I sadly can't test tonight

[lusty zealot]

quite frankly i haven't tried OC capacitors

though from what i've gathered from testing, both public and balance council, they do seem to be quite strong

[weary sparrow]

They are AMAZING with shields, in special big ones

[granite sapphire]

ive found that while oc shields are good they straight up burn down when subjected to high sustained dps and often immolate the entire ship by extension due to overloading heat networks

[weary sparrow]

Each OC capacitor is a instant size e battery

[lusty zealot]

yeah, which i love

you don't break the shield, you overheat the generator

[weary sparrow]

Yeah, OC shielding demands an ungodly amount of heat management. Which is fair by how strong they become once OC

[narrow owl]

I feel like mine are more fragmented and redundant than other people who use central cooling. I feel like i try to use the less amount of pipes possible (mindustry player syndrome) and my brain prevents me from using radiators because the heat could be used with canisters ahah

[narrow owl]

I love the idea of turning their protection into their undoing

[weary sparrow]

I just love a huge pipeline running through the ship xD

[brazen cove]

it does look quite fun because a nuke hitting an overclocked shield does nothing to the shield itself but you can see the overclocked shield and oftentimes its neighbours immediately burst into flame

[narrow owl]

T-Batteries my beloved

[brazen cove]

T-Batteries? oh Thermal Batteries

[granite sapphire]

it also seems the play is a mix of oc/base large shields because it provides redundancy vs sustained dps and a balance of highly concentrated defense and coverage. thats good

[narrow owl]

I love the steampunk look of pipes

[lusty zealot]

aye

[granite sapphire]

my 50/50 mix of overclocked and base shields seems to do just fine versus overclocked weapons

i have noticed however that actively defending against overclocked weapons is like entirely futile

good defenses help you kill them first but overclocked weapons are generally absurdly powerful and punch through anything with reasonable levels of investment

[lusty zealot]

new ship, Crunchtime

[brazen cove]

Oh that's fun

[lusty zealot]

less melty shot

[brazen cove]

"less melty"

[regal plume]

What heat is that heat absorbing draining? Is the second electrogun also OC?

[lusty zealot]

both disruptors are overclocked, yes

[regal plume]

Crazy looking ship 😄

[granite sapphire]

can tcms fire without taking full heat storage if left on autofire?

[lusty zealot]

each TCM has to be fully charged with heat to fire

[lusty zealot]

vibes

[brazen cove]

yea

i need to make some overclocked fringes

[narrow owl]

I should too

[brazen cove]

i bet part of the faction's identity is gonna become "thermal ships with shitty heat management"

[granite sapphire]

ok so im not wasting heat venting by having them on autofire good to know

[lusty zealot]

you are not

[narrow owl]

more like "it works till that breaks then we're fucked"

[brazen cove]

yea

[lusty zealot]

my beloved

i do really look forward to what the architects do with meltdown

[narrow owl]

me too ! Saris is already cooking 5 michelin star lmao

[lusty zealot]

aye

[narrow owl]

I hope piping systems stay unpractical enough where using them extensively or trying to compact a ship using them will always look scrappy

[marsh aurora]

What does shield overload status effect?

[narrow owl]

what disruptor creates ?

It's damage over time and stacks

so one single diruptor can eventually drain a lot of shields

[marsh aurora]

I don't mean disruptor drain

[narrow owl]

ah ?

what do you mean

[marsh aurora]

I think that disruptor uses drisruptor drain status
I mean shield overload status

Do disruptor uses both?

[narrow owl]

what causes shield overload ?

[marsh aurora]

I think that when a shield is overclocked it also gains the shield overload status effect

[narrow owl]

oh it generates heat when taking damage maybe ?

[marsh aurora]

I don't think so, that is a different component no a status effect

Maybe it changes the texture

[granite sapphire]

alright the ship is finished. my first meltdown 1.5m pvp ship, 20 overclocked ions 4 overclocked large shields plus 2 firebeams and using overclocked factory fire missiles to vent heat. (the missiles are HE so i can swap them after a match starts for more free heat storage)
thoughts:

• tcms are absurd. if i tried to vent heat the normal way with radiators id probably be spending 500k creds on them alone. the fact i can do it with 8 launchers while also getting a pretty damn strong support weapon is weird. maybe theyre fine balance wise if radiators get buffed.
• oc shields work well with a mix of normal shields, as they are poor vs high sustained dps and burn down otherwise
• overclocked ions are crazy. i only have 20 which is a pretty low count for ion ships but this ship feels like it has probably some of the highest firepower of any ship ive ever played. theyre annoying logistically but very powerful
• trbs are cool
  takeaways:
• radiator buffs/larger variants
• small nitpick but fire at will oc ions should change behavior to fire whenever the lightning can arc, not only when the ion is directly in line with an enemy tile.

[dense swan]

humble sundiving mining ship

[delicate moss]

Not sure if that's enough storage for a sundiving miner but still, really cool utilization of the oc shields

[dense swan]

it isn't 🙂

[granite sapphire]

whats the heat collector for?

[dense swan]

overclocked miner

[granite sapphire]

ah

[weary sparrow]

greetings, did we get any patch for the meltdown preview? (just because my game is loading slowly, like when the game updates)

[granite sapphire]

not yet, its probably that old bug where it loads first time files every time. been having that too

[weary sparrow]

makes sense

[delicate moss]

Kinda like how the luddic path from starsector uses safety overrides very frequently

[brazen cove]

dunno, never played starsector
Fringe is more like not having any safety to override to begin with

[delicate moss]

I think the order of best to worst heat management faction wise will probably be:
-Cabal (energy focused, duh)
-Mono (industry specialists)
-Imperium (alpha strike for strong damage)
-Fringe (space junker)

[brazen cove]

i agree but swap mono and imper honestly

imper is simply the best of the best, and mono, well sure those guys are on fire, but spending money on thermal batteries means less for employees, right?

[delicate moss]

in starsector, the luddic path are basically space jihadists, hated by nearly everyone and do rampant terrorism. Ship wise they like to use unorthodox ramming tactics and don't care about coming back alive, so are willing to severely damage their ships to kill the opponent

[flat skiff]

btw has anyone been able to use the part debugger?

[brazen cove]

oh i see
Fringe but evil with a bit of cabal sprinkled in

[delicate moss]

I guess it's more I can see imperium utilizing alpha strike, since they already do that with nukes. They focus heavily on high damage first

[brazen cove]

oh and also if there ends up being a new thermal-focused faction they obviously go in front of cabal but i do reckon cabal would be best at managing heat

[granite sapphire]

i think mono would be the worst simply because they dont overclock as they probably have osha and workplace regulations

[brazen cove]

ye, but above that, they focus on being good, while mono would be more likely to have deliberately bad heat setups

[brazen cove]

that's a good point

[carmine galleon]

I feel like imperium could straight up surpass cabal, the only thing the imperium has a notably limited supply of is manpower iirc so they'd want to take any force multiplier they could get

[narrow owl]

I will try that tomorrow

[granite sapphire]

tcms are great

they just burn everything

really funny

[brazen cove]

that's fair also, but i reckon cabal would be better at heating but imper would be better at actually applying it
Cabal ships would have better heat setups but be conceptually worse ships, while imperial ones wouldn't have amazing heat setups but would be really solid designs anyways

[granite sapphire]

i think cabal and imper would be evenly matched just with different philosophies i assume cabal would prioritize stable, sustaining oc setups while imper would have bursty overclock setups that prioritize pure force with lots of heat storage and passive venting

[delicate moss]

perhaps - my reasoning for being decent at least with heat is because mono are industrial specialists. They run more factories than any other faction and their larger ships have factories on them, so they probably know how to balance heat properly

[brazen cove]

yea probably

[carmine galleon]

I could see this

[pale python]

I feel like most weapons shouldn't have heat connections only at their doors

in most cases they look super goofy

[granite sapphire]

imo it adds logistical depth

[pale python]

well, some, not most

[granite sapphire]

it can be annoying though i agree

[brazen cove]

hmm yea
it's kind of hard to say because there's arguments both ways - the industrialsts know how to get the best out of safe operating procedures, but the Cooperative shipwrights are overconfident and flaunt those safe procedures

[carmine galleon]

it's difficult to design around but I think it is in a good way

[brazen cove]

good that we can all agree that Fringe would suck at thermals tho

[granite sapphire]

i think fringe wouldnt be that bad...

[pale python]

while yes, it's always on doors instead of in some weapons having special additional connections

[delicate moss]

Yeah tbh I think the whole "heat pipes can be where doors are" is a fun challenge, and it's important to remember that heat piping should be at least a little difficult to set up right

[pale python]

rails got a new door so heat pipes can be in there with the same rules

[brazen cove]

they wouldn't be completely helpless, but its more that everyone else would be better

[granite sapphire]

at least on their larger ships i doubt they could afford to have a ship that entirely self-immolates so theyd be forced to have decent heat venting

[brazen cove]

it'd also be funny to see a fringe ship that has blatantly added heat pipes after it was already built

actually im gonna make that

[delicate moss]

heat pipes aren't actually all that expensive so that would be pretty funny tbh

lorewise fringe ships are scrapped together from other hulls, so perhaps a hull chunk had pipes on it and they just didn't bother to remove it

[brazen cove]

like the "scrap" lookin ships like Haywire or Marigold, the pipes are just blank white sticking out from everything else

[pale python]

ions for example would work fine if they had a additional connection i think

[brazen cove]

ions work pretty well for me honestly in that regard

[granite sapphire]

ions are fine already i think, theyre very very powerful so their logistical difficulties requiring different logistical setups makes sense imo

[lusty zealot]

fringe would care more about the results of the thermal system than its safety

[granite sapphire]

remember pipe crossings exist

[lusty zealot]

take a powerful overclock even if it'll burn down in a few minutes

[brazen cove]

yea

[granite sapphire]

yeah and i think that would in a way make them pretty damn good at it

[pale python]

yeah

[carmine galleon]

I think fringe would actually lean pretty heavy on overclocking but their cooling would be godawful, overclocking can make an array of cheap small guns notably more powerful but radiators require expensive hypercoils meaning their setups would either have poor longevity or be reliant on canister missiles

[brazen cove]

yea

[granite sapphire]

i can see fringe just spamming canister missiles lol

[lusty zealot]

yeah

[brazen cove]

"we have no fuckin clue how else to get all this heat out"

[lusty zealot]

tbh i think my Acceptable Risk would pretty much be fringe's heat philosophy

[carmine galleon]

slap 20 thermal batteries and then just salvage and rebuild them after the battle

[lusty zealot]

no radiators, poor heat connections, all the heat dealt with via TCM

[brazen cove]

a giant disorganized frontal line of overclocked small lasers and cannons that's hilariously ineffective... because they're just meant to produce heat for thermal missiles

[delicate moss]

Fringe also really, really hate all the other factions so I get the feeling they won't feel remorse for cooking imperialists alive

[granite sapphire]

pow suicide overclock ships

[brazen cove]

pipe setups with holes in them that have been hurredly filled in with new parts so the ship doesn't explode

[granite sapphire]

overclock switch is glued on and the crew are welded in

grim

[lusty zealot]

peak fringe heat system

[brazen cove]

Fringe ship with no cooling and no FEs

[near flax]

i think I'm gonna write down and draw some stuff that I want to see get added in

[carmine galleon]

these things aren't htat expensive and a ship that's got a bunch of these but can't cool itself consistently or at all would be a pretty interesting gimmick

[lusty zealot]

literally has to fire its missiles to cool down because no radiator and reliant on overclocked parts

once the missiles run out, it's doomed

[granite sapphire]

same with my cruiser tbh

[lusty zealot]

i do really like this thing

[granite sapphire]

ig i just turn down overclock

[delicate moss]

so in a nutshell

[granite sapphire]

hosting 1.5m elimination on meltdown preview

[polar knot]

What’s the best thing to overclock rn?

[narrow owl]

Cabal being reasonable with the power of the SUN ?

[pale python]

thrust probably

[lusty zealot]

It Depends™️

[flat skiff]

everything tbh

[lusty zealot]

thrust and reactors both get a lot of benefit with not all too much hassle

[delicate moss]

well, they'll at least be smart enough to not roast themselves alive.. probably

[granite sapphire]

in terms of how much their power increases relative to their base version, reactors seem very powerful, while ions simply get a large relative boost due to how weak their base version is

[polar knot]

Does the extra production make up the cost of implementing the entire heating system?

[narrow owl]

Fringe is wonky sustained. Cabal is reasonable alpha strike. Monolith is Reasonable sustained and imperium is wonky alpha strike, but actually clever af

[granite sapphire]

for sure. im actually feeling that oc reactors might be game breaking due to how power breakpoints and reactors are generally a large balancing aspect for 1.5m pvp, but im not sure yet. havent played with oc reactors enough

[narrow owl]

Cabal would have greatly engineered systems that look like magic to an amateur

[delicate moss]

Nah, I get the feeling fringe will prefer alpha strike designs

[carmine galleon]

anyways I pretty much just got my hands on this update a few hours ago and the only thing I really struggle to understand right now is how the hell the upgrades for the thermal beam work

[polar knot]

Thin thing makes it do more heat, fat thing makes the aoe larger

[fiery hollow]

boost thruster

or deck gun

[carmine galleon]

interesting

[narrow owl]

I get the feeling fringe will be diverse af

[polar knot]

Deck gun crashes my game every shot 💔

[narrow owl]

like always

[narrow owl]

me too

[lusty zealot]

the pumps both attach to a thermal pipe system, amplifiers make it do more heat while dilators increase the area it applies heat too

[narrow owl]

THANK YOU

That's what I needed to know

I didn't understand shit about the tooltips

[delicate moss]

This video showcases what happens when you go all in on either, or balance them

(at least against the master of none, mileage will vary from ship to ship)

[lusty zealot]

it's probably best to go for a mix in all cases, with more focus on amp if you're using it as a primary weapon and dilation as a supportive weapon

[pale python]

is this a tune featured in infinitode

[delicate moss]

potentially, it's called Spring Anthem by ko0x

[delicate moss]

yeah this is a good take on it

[near flax]

actually im not gonna draw cause i dont feel like it

[lusty zealot]

):

[near flax]

fiiiine ill draw

[weary sparrow]

sup, do anyone is making a big ship to share? I am out of inspiration for side heat missile launcher placements :/

[near flax]

i forgot how much i hate drawing

[pale python]

real

[lusty zealot]

don't if you don't want to

no pressure was intended

[dense swan]

this is really cool to play with so far

[lusty zealot]

yeah

[near flax]

ive been trying to figure out how an internal radiator would get balanced if added
Large Radiator: 2x5 part, tall part, heat part
Larger version of the radiator, very power hungry, uses more power the more heat is in a system, sends heat upwards and outwards. it loses efficiency if any tall parts are within a certain radius (same sorta effect as the regular radiator but not a super big area for it)

Thermal Dispersion fin: 1x1 part, heat part
Small chunk of steel that slowly radiates out heat, like a cooling fin, cannot be placed near a heat exchanger without the heat exanger absorbing its heat, it it gets hit by a thermal weapon it puts the heat directly into your ships thermal system

non radiator parts

Thermo electric generator: 2x3, heat part
A capacitor that can slowly fill itself by using heat from a thermal system

[tropic swallow]

do thermal missiles do friendly fire?

as in, do they release their heat when they hit their own or a friendly ship?

[lusty zealot]

i think that's based on whether friendly fire's on as a setting

[tropic swallow]

idk how expensive it would be, but if they don't release the heat on friendly hit then that's a possible internal heat release system by having them on autofire

[lusty zealot]

yeah i think a few things like that were made by the balance council

[near flax]

the only solution is thermals being an acception to friendly fire but idk if thats a good thing

[dense swan]

they don't appear to do so

[carmine galleon]

power generation through heat would be pretty sick, I think ideally they should have a very small amount of passive power production so you could theoretically run a system solely off of them

some sort of heatsink that ejects and gets rebuilt after reaching max heat capacity could be neat but idk if that'd be too similar to canister missiles just without any offensive capability

[next urchin]

The scrappiness and asymmetry is something I'm very happy with. I wouldn't change it for the world

[marsh aurora]

😮🔫

[next urchin]

Shield overload is a debuff applied by Thermal Resonance Beams

[marsh aurora]

What does it do?

[next urchin]

It increases the energy cost of damage to the shield

So basically reduces shield HP

[lusty zealot]

Authority, my first attempt at monolith paint

[next urchin]

Steam/steamcompat/[cosmoteer app id]/pfx or something

[near flax]

celeste while youre here could i get feedback on these?

[marsh aurora]

Normal shield is 1 HP every 0.4 energy.
Overclocked shield is 3 HP every 0.4 energy.
How much the shield overdrive effect increase the energy cost?

[next urchin]

I'm not sure how Walt feels about changes like adding extra components to make modding more convenient

[next urchin]

Depends on how much overload is applied. IIRC overload starts at 1 (base value) and the shields energy per damage is multiplied by the overload status value

[pale python]

its not new components, i was instead mentinong formatting and inheritance for the .rules present (as a example here https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1371092940042272858)

[next urchin]

StatusDisabled and StatusIndicators are the new components I was referring to

As in, extra components on the parts whose only purpose is for modding

[plucky fossil]

true

[pale python]

huh i swear IndicatorSprites could accept OperationalToggle

but indeed

when i made that suggestion post it was mostly random speaking of things while i had ideas fresh

[lusty zealot]

Authority managed to get a TCK (Total Crew Kill) vs this Sittella

[plucky fossil]

i like that one of the reason cannon is bad in career (massive collateral) is decreased now that fire only disables

[lusty zealot]

it keeps killing crew

[next urchin]

Are those OC LC?

[lusty zealot]

yeah

[next urchin]

Perfect, that's exactly how I wanted those and fire to turn out

[livid thunder]

OC LC?

[plucky fossil]

the warcriminator

[livid thunder]

oh overclocked smth

[next urchin]

Overclocked Large Cannon

[livid thunder]

large canno- ye

[lusty zealot]

they do seem to have a problem aiming though

#1371630767297265746

[next urchin]

Yeah... I think I have a sorta experimental fix for that which I applied to railguns (but might not work as well there)

[delicate moss]

I really love that you can do the FTL thing now where you kill the crew and leave the hull intact

[hard orbit]

What is the algorithm that determines where a part's heat goes? Currently if a part is connected to multiple disconnected thermal systems one may expect that the part's heat will get split between the connected thermal systems evenly but instead it seems at least sometimes all of the heat gets dumped into one of the the part's connected thermal systems. Celeste, I've been told you are the one who might be able to answer this.

[next urchin]

It's distributed to all connected storages based on the available capacity of each storage

More capacity = given more of the heat

[plucky fossil]

available capacity or total capacity

how does it choose when both are 0 but they have different radiation amounts

do heat missiles count as storage

how are radiators chosen to be used

[next urchin]

Available. Radiators contain a buffer storage. TCM launchers have heat storages, yes. Radiators are used in whatever order their timers tick in. They pull from all connected storages

It's storages all the way down

[lusty zealot]

yet another total crew kill by the Authority

[brazen cove]

wait, how does it crewkill? it has no thermal attacks

[delicate moss]

why is that icon a bunch of balls by the way? I don't really get the symbolism

[brazen cove]

and Avalanche's very exposed reactor is hard to not detonate

[lusty zealot]

OC LC

[brazen cove]

what do OLCs do?

[lusty zealot]

they make so much fire

incendiary shrapnel

very good chance of fire

in a large area

[brazen cove]

oh shit they turn into shotguns? that's excellent

[lusty zealot]

not shotguns

[pale python]

nope

fragmentation rounds

[lusty zealot]

they fire one shot, when it hits something, shrapnel

[brazen cove]

oh frags

there's so much overclocked stuff it's ridiculous

[near flax]

interesting

[plucky fossil]

pile of rubble

[cerulean prairie]

If we have pre-defined sets of components that modded parts can optionally inherit from, that's fine. But I don't want to burden parts with extra components that don't need them, for performance reasons.

[random oyster]

Well that's certainly interesting. Tinkering with thrusters in the preview, and just noticed overclocked boosters can receive power cells while boosting. 👀

[brazen cove]

they can WHAT

[lusty zealot]

yeah

[pale python]

good luck not burning up however

(i wish the description was a bit clearer but not sure how it can be done)

[brazen cove]

who cares. boost thrupster go

ludicrous speed

actually considering MRTs that should be ludicrousER speed

[next urchin]

Are people not reading the OC stats in the tooltips or is it unclear what

Overclock (Boost: On)
  Features:
    - Can receive power

means

[brazen cove]

no i just didn't read it that is entirely my fault

[lusty zealot]

i'm definitely going to be making a fringe ship with OC boost at some point

[brazen cove]

actually it's especially egregious because my first overclock ship has a boost thruster on it, but for some reason i didn't think to check what its overclock stats where

[pale python]

"Power fed until heat increase = 6"
or
" - Features, Can receive power"
"After feeding 6 batteries:"
"Heat increase per battery = 15%"

[next urchin]

Tbh I am thinking of just removing the stat about the 6 battery threshold

figure it out yourselves 😄

[pale python]

the stat or the mechanic altogether-

😭

[next urchin]

No, the stat

It might be more confusing than it is necessarily helpful

[brazen cove]

remove the whole mechanic. remove all of it. remove the game. start over

[lusty zealot]

something like this would be good i think

[next urchin]

Cosmoteer 2 when?

[brazen cove]

Cosmotwo
features: all the things are fixed now

[random oyster]

Makes sense that boosting for a long time would make it much, much hotter, and you'll have to manage that somehow.

[plucky fossil]

it heped me :(

[pale python]

cosmoteer 3(d)

[brazen cove]

what, Cosmoteer 6?

oh

cosmoteer 4d
added new time travel part

[next urchin]

The stats font size and small width of the tooltip has been my nemesis in trying to describe OCs through stats I stg

[lusty zealot]

have you seen this suggestion? could be handy

[next urchin]

I've played Starsector and BG3 recently and noticed that both games have tooltips at least like twice as wide as ours

[bitter steppe]

two column tooltips when

[delicate moss]

please just provide icons it's all I ask

[random oyster]

Time to tinker with boosters now that I feel I can actually use them. I tried building a large interceptor type ship, but I always end up either overweight with stuff, or just feel like the boost duration isn't long enough to matter.

[next urchin]

I have, and we've discussed things along those lines, but haven't come to a conclusion yet. I feel like having to hold ctrl+alt might be annoying

[delicate moss]

thanks for bringing this up btw, would be an elegant way to do it

[pale python]

i feel like it should be more expanded than that, tabs would make sense

weapons that have firing modes and etc, stat blocks for rails,
alternative stats and overclock stats + description would be nice

[lusty zealot]

speaking of BG3, something they do have in tooltips which is very nice is the ability to hover over the tooltips and open subtooltips

something like that would also be handy

[pale python]

also allows missile stats to finally be in the part itself

that is big

[lusty zealot]

stellaris added a feature to do that a while ago, and it's incredibly useful

[brazen cove]

in fairness, "there's so much stuff we're struggling to figure out how to communicate it without covering the screen" isn't the worst problem to have in development

[granite sapphire]

i think it is a pretty big issue

[pale python]

pressing arrow keys would be a good input for changing tabs for this feature

[brazen cove]

oh it definitely is but it's better than "there's too little stuff" i reckon

[pale python]

hover over part and tab for changing descriptions
hold alt as well for showing stats

[tame comet]

visual or informational overload is more common than you think in gaming

[next urchin]

I suggested that a while ago, but Walt said the technical changes required to support multiple tooltips would probably be more effort than is justified by the usefulness of nested tooltips

[lusty zealot]

mmm, fair

[next urchin]

Part of the issue is trying to communicate the behaviour both effectively and succinctly

One thing I think would actually help quite a lot is having a non-numeric description of the OC

[brazen cove]

i am aware of this
I'm just saying that it's good that the problem is that you have a lot of stuff in the game instead of not having enough stuff

[pale python]

interesting

[next urchin]

If you consider games like DotA, their abilities have a brief text description of their behaviour and then numeric stats for specificity

[lusty zealot]

agreed

[next urchin]

A lot of the feedback has been stuff that we're either aware of and have had intermittent discussions on solving, or is already on the to-do list. It's great when the former happens, though, because it shows that other players have found the same issue / solution independently

A lot of threads here are linked back in our dev chat. The only problem is the limited amount of time / effort I have to engage with the problems

[pale python]

another random thought from my endless bucket

since TCM is a lot of the time being considered OP by some people (and as a visual 'realism' reason) i think making those take much longer to fill up (especially) would make sense
it also makes thermal missiles less crew intensive because you'd be limited by input rate more, but not sure about it

(somewhat baseless idea as usual)

[lusty zealot]

i think it'd be better to have them have less heat cap and thus faster fill time

even down to half capacity would be reasonable i think

[cerulean prairie]

I'm not necessarily opposed to making the stats tooltip wider, though I'd prefer to keep the current width for descriptions.

[cerulean prairie]

We've discussed this, it's just a lot of work to build that kind of system.

[bitter steppe]

Would it be possible to give tooltips a scrollbar?

[lusty zealot]

celeste already mentioned that yeah

[kind estuary]

i can see so many unintentional problems with a scroll bar showing up when you wanted to change zoom

[cerulean prairie]

My idea was that holding Alt allows you to scroll the tooltip using the mouse wheel.

[bitter steppe]

When hovering over an icon on the toolbar in build mode?

[lusty zealot]

might cause issues when you've got the 'show stats by default' setting on

[cerulean prairie]

Yeah that setting would have to change to something like "Always Show Stats" so that it shows description+stats at the same time. And if that's on then all Alt does is allow scrolling.

[modern socket]

And it needs a bit of rebalancing given how OP they are in vanilla.

[lusty zealot]

possibly always have both showing but have a setting to change which one's at the top

so you could have the setting on to immediately see the stats and then scroll down for the description

[hard orbit]

If that is the case then this doesn't seem to make sense. Why are the far side radiators under utilized while the middle lasers are getting cooked? The outer lasers appear to be incorrectly maxing out the inner radiator instead of using the outer radiators.

[lusty zealot]

because those aren't connected

you can't pass heat through parts, with the exception of TCM launchers and TRTs

[next urchin]

(And radiators)

Non-thermal parts can't pass heat through themselves

[hard orbit]

I know they aren't connected but it shouldn't over heat if the outer radiators were used by the outer lasers.

[delicate moss]

I would really like to stress though that showing the overclock and the regular part info in the same UI menu is really overwhelming

it is not friendly to new players at all

[next urchin]

See above conversation

[lusty zealot]

is overclock planned to be unlocked via blueprint or similar?

[next urchin]

The outer radiators are being used by the outer blasters. They're splitting between the inner and outer radiator 50/50, presuming they're empty when the blaster produces heat

The inner blasters then don't have enough capacity left in the radiators next to them, and thus overflow

[next urchin]

Yeah, one tech per OC is the plan

[lusty zealot]

fair

[granite sapphire]

hm

any plans to have multiple levels of overclock?

[next urchin]

Nope

[bitter steppe]

what about a part that coverts premium currency into ship invulnerability, only costs 1 credit per damage taken

[pale python]

[next urchin]

Aside from probably being too mechanically complex, it would add an absolutely insane amount of work to reimplement it as a sliding/multi-choice scale, redesign all the OCs to work with a sliding scale, and then balance all the OC parts at each value of the sliding scale

[bitter steppe]

and you can buy premium credits in the in-game store! /s

[pale python]

me winning the match by throwing a disposable 10k credit ship and shooting a 865x overclock deck cannon

and another ship to be the win condition

[hard orbit]

Could the heat storage of radiators be increase? The heat distribution appears to be much smarter once there is more storage. This has the exact same heat generation and radiation but with more storage the lasers don't over heat and the stoage never fills because the heat assignment is smarter.

[plucky fossil]

i think all of the stats were useful other than some of the thermal stuff

you have a +50% but it's aways *50%

[carmine galleon]

you don't even need that many radiators I think you can run it off 1 as long as they're all connected via pipe

[plucky fossil]

so it's just 25%

[lusty zealot]

highly doubt it

and in any case they're more making a demonstration setup than one intended to be used

[tranquil cape]

maybe change it to "Heat increase per battery consumed 6: " if possible

[brisk lichen]

Fired an overclocked deck cannon and it crashed my game

[near flax]

known issue

[carmine galleon]

excessive amounts of crew and power cuz this is a rushed demonstration but I can sustainably run 7 OC'd large lasers off of one radiator

[lusty zealot]

while firing?

[carmine galleon]

yeah

I've seen no overheat yet I'll put it against something big to see if that holds up

[next urchin]

The radiators already store 1 second (2 radiator ticks) of heat. I'm fairly sure it's just an issue with you not having the necessary buffer to support the bursty heat generation of the blasters

[carmine galleon]

yeah no overheat

[next urchin]

The ship isn't set to invulnerable, is it?

[carmine galleon]

yes

[next urchin]

Invulnerable ships don't overflow heat

[carmine galleon]

oh shit

I was wrong about that anyhow I didn't toggle it invulnerable

I thought it did

I've been doing that earlier during testing

arbiter wasn't fighting back since it was still on my team

the radiators run for a minute after firing but for all intents and purposes it's not overheating

if it can run long enough to kill a 2 mil ship good enough right

[next urchin]

1 heavy blaster produces more heat than a single radiator can vent

[granite sapphire]

huh

invuln ships dont produce heat?

[carmine galleon]

it's still sustainable though, for all practical purposes it's not gonna melt

[next urchin]

They produce heat, just not overflow onto the hull

[next urchin]

The single heavy blaster sets itself on fire after like 15s

[granite sapphire]

that sounds wrong, it def crossed my mind to make my ships invulnerable to test their systems without having to constantly repair

[next urchin]

oh wait

[granite sapphire]

is heat a type of damage?

[next urchin]

@carmine galleon are you using the huge ships mod lol

[carmine galleon]

yeah

does that mess with things

[next urchin]

Probably

[next urchin]

yes

[granite sapphire]

wat

huge ships broken?

[carmine galleon]

that is so weird lmao

[next urchin]

The radiator is currently based off the grid size, so huge ships make them like 9 times as strong lol

[carmine galleon]

ah

[granite sapphire]

what?

like its power is based on how large the grid is?

[carmine galleon]

no wonder I was looking at that thing thinking something had to be up when it said how much it could vent 😭

[brazen cove]

i mean i have noticed that as soon as ions start overheating, they are considered damaged despite technically being on full health, so heat is probably considered a type of damage

[next urchin]

Yeah, the max grid size

[granite sapphire]

any particular reason?

[brazen cove]

that would explain why one of my ships didn't overheat at first but did the next time i booted the game up

[granite sapphire]

i mean its just a constant value right...

[carmine galleon]

yeah why on earth would it be calculated that way 😭

[granite sapphire]

is it a remnant of an old mechanic

[next urchin]

Because the radiator is supposed to require full line of sight to operate at 100% efficiency. I don't know whether it was initially an oversight or it didn't have that effect until some later change to how it worked

The length of the radiation area is the build grid size, so more build grid = more radiation area

Look, it was literally a year ago 💀

[granite sapphire]

but the radiator doesnt become less powerful based on how close it is to the edge of the grid... am i misunderstanding?

[lusty zealot]

basically it's to do with how the efficiency drop from having blocks in the way is calculated

i think

[granite sapphire]

i suppose

its funny more than anything ig

[next urchin]

The edge of the build grid is purely a GUI/ship validity thing

[granite sapphire]

uhh true but

[next urchin]

The grid still exists outside of the buildable area

[next urchin]

544.5/sec is normal, Huge Ships gets like 4500/sec lol

[carmine galleon]

yeah I would've never thought that would cause a bug

[granite sapphire]

so you tied it to the gui part of the build grid? 😨

[carmine galleon]

how peculiar

[next urchin]

I tied it to the maximum distance that you could place parts apart

[carmine galleon]

also how do you do that heat view

[granite sapphire]

i dont think i can even comprehend how that works. ah well

ill leave it off

[pale python]

what's the max distance with the current scaling stats that leads to exactly 500/s
cap range to that
enjoy

[brisk lichen]

what does this mean?

[next urchin]

dev mode atm, Ctrl+Shift+~

[pale python]

would that be good?

[brazen cove]

rubble

[lusty zealot]

scorched

[carmine galleon]

alr

[next urchin]

I'm going to fix up how the calculation is performed anyway haha

[lusty zealot]

part nonfunctional, but can still be walked through

[brazen cove]

perhaps a column of smoke and ash, like a burnt out fire, would work better as an icon?

[lusty zealot]

happens from fire doing the majority of the damage

[lusty zealot]

yeah, i do think it can be improved

[next urchin]

Look, again, the icon was from a year ago and was a placeholder lmao

[granite sapphire]

yeah... how'd you decide on 544.5 heat/s anyways?

strange number

[brazen cove]

placeholders? in my beta-verson that explicitly contains placeholders? nonsense

[next urchin]

I didn't lol. it's the result of a 'score per tile', a 'max distance', and a 'falloff exponent'

Technically "sum(i, 0, (&Line/MaxTiles) - 1, (&EmptyTileScore) * ( 1 - i / (&Line/MaxTiles)), 1)"

[granite sapphire]

just a bit strange, generally cosmoteer has very round numbers for stuff

[next urchin]

I've been meaning to invert it, but have not gotten around to it thus far

[granite sapphire]

cool, sorry for pressing you on this stuff i just found it humorous

[pale python]

i hope it's non-linear, having in specific circumstances such as giant super ships, multiple internal radiators instead of a single wall of internal radiators would be cool

[next urchin]

We're just going to set it at a 120 tile static value

So huge ships will be able to enclose them ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[plucky fossil]

did boost deadzone get reduced?

[next urchin]

Not by me

So... probably not?

[granite sapphire]

oh, ive been meaning to ask you what exactly amplification does mechanically. i know it just plain increases the damage of the trb. does it also increase the speed at which the trb applies the heat debuff and the strength of the shield debuff? and how does the shield debuff work? does it ramp up over time with sustained fire on the shield or does it kick in full whenever the trb is hitting a shield?

[plucky fossil]

it definitely did, it;'s only 20m now

iirc it was 42 or something before

[next urchin]

Interesting

[lusty zealot]

you can see the heat debuff calculation in the TRT's stats

[next urchin]

TRB doesn't do any damage. Amplification just increases the amount of heat the beam applies, and very minorly contributes towards the shield overload debuff strength. That debuff kicks in immediately, but that will probably change

[granite sapphire]

what?

but heat doesnt inherently do damage right

just sets fires

oh

[next urchin]

It sure does

[granite sapphire]

ok so its just basically a heat damage buff with a tiny increase to the debuff

[next urchin]

Low heat = only damage/pen resist reductions
Med heat = also fires
High heat = % based damage

As heat increases: material softens, then combusts, then melts

[pale python]

Steel hot and bendy to be hammered
Foam and etc catch on fire
Steel start to melt

at 9Bil. heat start fusion

[tame comet]

i will also mention that i think we have the longest descriptor for a single part now which is "Overclocked boosted boost thruster"

[plucky fossil]

is this bug? the power can go through a thermal battery but the heat doesn't transfer

even using a heat exchanger works

[tame comet]

is that the furry crew mod

-# based

[granite sapphire]

i think the 2 thingamajigs are seperate with 2 heat inputs

heat exchanger works cause its wireless

[next urchin]

That heat exchanger isn't doing anything, though

Pumps can't transfer heat, no

[plucky fossil]

why is it glowing then

oh wait nvm

but the pump is doing its full job right?

[plucky fossil]

pvp essential

[next urchin]

It only has one port connected to the TRT

So half

The pump doesn't have a 'path' from one port to the other

[plucky fossil]

but why is it glowing if it is not connected to a turret

[granite sapphire]

how does interconnecting multiple trb with multiple amplifiers/dilators work?

[lusty zealot]

it's connected to a heat system, and i'm not sure it can tell the difference between a TRT'd heat system and a non-TRT'd

[plucky fossil]

it is giving the player some very bad visual feedback

[lusty zealot]

visuals are probably the biggest thing that needs improving in this current preview

[granite sapphire]

my favorite factory the tcm part factory

[plucky fossil]

i think it should be made clearer which parts are passthrough (literally just heat missile launcher and beam turret)

and heat category parts

[next urchin]

Yes, that's just something that I haven't gotten around to yet

[next urchin]

The pump is used by both, but with diminishing returns

[granite sapphire]

how diminishing

[next urchin]

It's in the stats somewhere

Multi-Beam Efficiency or something

That's the exponent applied IIRC

[granite sapphire]

any idea which part?

checked the beam and both pumps

[next urchin]

Should be the pumps?

Unless it broke at some point

[granite sapphire]

might've

[pale python]

thank you devs for being awesome

[granite sapphire]

great time, having a lot of fun optimizing heat

im just tinkering with my ion cruiser rn, why i have so many questions

[lusty zealot]

i will link [this](#1370855769108516914 message) post as a potential way to improve visibility for that

[plucky fossil]

it did

i am pretty sure

[tulip nebula]

sometimes, part info gets too tall that it surpasses my laptop's screen, im not using meltdown but maybe its good to make the info like a table?
Like this:

-# instead of:

-# Basic1 info:
-# basic2 info:
-# basic3 info:
-# oc info:

-# do:

-# Basic1 info: | basic2 info:
-# basic3 info: | oc info:
Cuz stuff (especially modded) gets really long if you ya know what im pointing out...

[next urchin]

Yeah, known issue particularly with higher UI scales. We're going to make the tooltips scrollable 🙂

You might be able to reduce the UI scale setting to fix it, as long as the rest of the UI stays comfortably sized for you

[bitter steppe]

I need another tick or two on the slider to scale my UI down more

[granite sapphire]

still curious how exactly the diminishing returns on connected pump systems work

[next urchin]

The amp pump rules have the formula commented somewhere

[granite sapphire]

alright, thanks

[tame comet]

am i wrong in assessing that combined overclocked ions do nothing when combined

[granite sapphire]

solar flare mk2, my first pretty much complete preview pvp ship, its taught me a massive amount about how heat works

[lusty zealot]

iirc they combine the same way as non-OC ions do

[granite sapphire]

they just combine the same way increasing their damage

[tame comet]

[granite sapphire]

oc ions are really fun

their logistics can be hard id just say you should liberally use pipe crossings and youll be fine

idea: thermal coils
a 4x2 part with a projecting 3x2 coil assembly. cools passively, same as a radiator. has an internal heat storage denoted by the coils glowing red-hot. if it overheats it cuts its coil, rendering the part useless and requiring a repair, but preventing fires. efficiency is based on a radius with the area of empty space surrounding them.

its main niche would be as a solid cooling and storage option that can provide fire control but isnt particularly sustainable

[delicate moss]

How come this has no radiators? How is heat handled on this thing?

[granite sapphire]

tcms

the launchers are loaded with hes so i can swap them because if i start with tcms they will be full on heat and not give me any extra storage

[delicate moss]

ohhh damn, I see

that's honestly the coolest shit ever, shoot all heat waste at the enemy

sounds like a lot to pilot though

[granite sapphire]

yeah

full cycle

[granite sapphire]

not really, everything is left on fire at target/fire at will

it really boils down to point front at enemy and target ur guns

[delicate moss]

ic ic

[granite sapphire]

the most annoying stuff is when a fight becomes drawn out and you need to start dialing in overclocking and micromanage stuff to not burn down

but rarely happens with this thing due to its overwhelming damage

it can fire everything at full blast for a solid 90 seconds or so until the heat storage fills and then itll start burning down

btw everything pretty much is overclocked on that thing, all 20 ions, 4 of the large shields, and the factories to be precise

[kind estuary]

accidental proof of concept for thermal ship eating another ship success

[delicate moss]

Me going outside to sunbathe and accidentally forgetting to come back inside

[granite sapphire]

forgot the spf 60

[kind estuary]

those ships are not hostile with eachother. going to need to figure out an answer to stop accidental hostilities, but also some ill intentioned career players could easily cook an entire station if that doesnt cause hostilities

[next urchin]

We'll be changing the allegiance interactions at some point

[granite sapphire]

yeah i think someone in excelsior also noticed that after testing if u can bypass the radiator deadzone by using locking armor

damaging even friendly ships

[kind estuary]

definitely a few strange interactions to work out

[next urchin]

So it turns out I actually removed the stat because it was too hard to express. The formula is
amplificationFactor = (1 / ((beams - 1) * utilizationScale + 1)^(1-efficiency)

[tranquil wedge]

Currently that is
amplificationFactor = (1 / ((beams - 1) * 0.5 + 1)^0.5

[tranquil cape]

huh it actually splits between beams a little more efficiently

[tranquil wedge]

I amde this graph for anyone interested:
Amount of amp pumps to use per trb depending on amount of credits to spend on those 2: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/biyvbzia5c

So the more trb you have the more amp pumps you want per trb

The graph does ignore some important factors though

[tame comet]

wait, radiators deal damage? we got our first melee* weapon

[granite sapphire]

same for dilation?

[tranquil wedge]

oh dont know actually

(I think dialation pumps kinda suck so I never bothered to check)

[granite sapphire]

smh

dilation is peak

makes the aoe bigger shield debuff stronger and takes less heat

[tranquil wedge]

yes its the same formula

[granite sapphire]

cool cool

i run 0 amp on my trb rn lol

[granite sapphire]

im not sure i understand, what is each axis representing?

if you have zero trb you should have 3 amps?

[tranquil wedge]

X is number of credits you use on pumps+trb
Y is the number of amp pumps to use per trb

[tranquil wedge]

yes

[granite sapphire]

paragon logi

[granite sapphire]

oh

uh

i see

[tranquil wedge]

I dont think the formula is too accurate. Ill refine it some time by adding power, crew and wire cost. At least approximations

[granite sapphire]

is the formula assuming all the trb and amps are interconnected?

[tranquil wedge]

yes

[granite sapphire]

ok ok cool

this is mostly what i wanted

[tranquil wedge]

in the past it sometimes was actually more efficient not to connect the trb at some point

but I dont think thats the case anymore

[granite sapphire]

all im seeing is that the diminishing returns are really insignificant until insanely high counts

[granite sapphire]

wait uhhh no i dont get it

oh god

this is so complicated

this is per trb

[tranquil wedge]

yes

This is a result of finding the max of a 2 variable function so its not surprising that its complicated

[tranquil wedge]

I mean its already half efficiency for 7 beams

per beam

[granite sapphire]

ill do smth myself tmr im just too tired to do integration rn theres a specific value i really wanna express that is hard to explain

[tranquil wedge]

feel free to tell me when you can

[boreal estuary]

just curious, any chance for a heat using starter ship? seems doable if youre better than me at making ships
bonus points if its a bit of a glass cannon

[dark lily]

It's certainly possible to use heat on small ships, but it's not a good idea for a new player because of its complexity. It would need to be locked behind some barrier

[boreal estuary]

then again maybe its too expensive
this thing uses the entire starter budget and is both ugly and more of a flying gimmick than anything else
and even toning down the gun would leave you asymetrical

put a warning in the description maybe?

[dark lily]

It would probably have to be equipped with a single small laser

[boreal estuary]

so bug reports with the beta enabled also go here?

or rather crash logs

[next urchin]

Create a thread in #1019741923893858305 so it doesn't get lost in here 🙂
I've fixed almost all of the bugs that have already been reported, though, so give those a peek first

[boreal estuary]

https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1371801188210573364

[narrow owl]

overclock could be nice to unlock at the end of the first system or beginning of second, a way to let experienced players speedrun to it

[summer cypress]

wait a minute.. if overclocked small thrusters produce power, could you make a ship with no reactors? :0

[dark lily]

The control room will always need power. But, you can entirely run all (small) thrusters on thermal power 😈

[brazen cove]

combine this with PD and the whole ship needs 2 crew

[summer cypress]

ok, so you can't take power out of overclocked small thrusters? seems like an oversight

imo you should be able to

[narrow owl]

you can't take out power of any consumer

[dark lily]

Power dynamos are relatively recent, so there's no basis or precedent for doing that

Also Walt has been against 1x1 reactors for a very long time, so making it possible with thrusters would be strange

[summer cypress]

that's fair

[tame comet]

lmao thats a really fucking funny image thougj