Tournament Chat

[upbeat ridge]

hey saris what are the other technical rules that get me disqualified so i can finally win one

could have asked for a rematch actually

[forest cedar]

I did

And got one

I lost in separate matches

[upbeat ridge]

you did? crazy

[jagged flume]

Just read the rule list

Kine got disqualified for the same reason though, frankly

[vocal cloak]

The 2 asian players lost to DCed smh

[upbeat ridge]

yep

that's a pattern

[vocal cloak]

Damn you 3rd world infrastructure

[granite river]

rock

[worldly kiln]

F

[jagged flume]

I didn't even know both of you are asian, Jun0

[surreal pecan]

---

I don't think I enjoy when people take a win off a silver platter. But I guess Tooth at least has one more chance.

[jagged flume]

@fast oracle

[surreal pecan]

Well, taking the free win didn't work. Still, GGs to both sides.

[young jacinth]

@sterile flame what you want to do when rocked is turning to the side only until you contact the asteroid and then immediately just turn all thrust off. If you did it early enough you just drift off.

[surreal pecan]

Yes, fd thrust gives you free strafe.

[upbeat ridge]

i was the only asian player for like a year at one point

[young jacinth]

I dont mean that

[surreal pecan]

Wow you're Asian Juno?

[young jacinth]

What im saying is to try to drift off

[surreal pecan]

Ahh.

Sorry.

[young jacinth]

Np

[short tartan]

gg

[young jacinth]

Works best with lighter ships though

[jagged flume]

@gilded spindle

[upbeat ridge]

ofc

[short tartan]

my problem is i expect people to change ships constantly so i do the same to try to always throw in wildcards

[jagged flume]

@gilded spindle cmoooon

[short tartan]

most people run 1-2 ships per match, i run 3

[surreal pecan]

I expected you to be from the American side for some reason.

I don't know the time frame (and lag) with me align with most Americans.

[sonic flame]

suggesrions for 750k duo

[gilded spindle]

I am so sorry

I won't use that again

[upbeat ridge]

you live in a soviet bloc country, slow internet is implied

[fast oracle]

lmao

[surreal pecan]

@jagged flume Would there be two Bo5s for Slowking?

[granite river]

lmfao

[jagged flume]

Yes this is a best of 5

[fast oracle]

slow is the new gog

[surreal pecan]

And that was the moment he knew, he lagged up

[pliant edge]

If there's 1/4th as many Point Defense projectiles, will they be 4 times as wide?

[short tartan]

back

[gilded spindle]

*I got a jar of lag!~"

[fast oracle]

i have to go xd

[short tartan]

this isnt a loss, its a learning expirience, im really proud of myself

[upbeat ridge]

exploits

[jagged flume]

Okay join the game and don't pick that ship again Slowking lmao

[upbeat ridge]

this is beyond my control i'm so proud

[short tartan]

would appriciate it if someone could help me dissect and learn from my matches more at some point

[gilded spindle]

aw

[surreal pecan]

I will play instead of Lunastrod xd

Well slowk the ultimate lagmachine made you wi-

Nevermind lol

[granite river]

Somehow I initially thought slowking said this and absolutely died of laughter

[short tartan]

lol

[icy oxide]

PD is ultimate lag switch now. Great balance 👏

[upbeat ridge]

it would be funny

[surreal pecan]

Rebal mod pd in a nutshell:
Suck but they are still objectively the best weapon in the game.

@jagged flume Please remove the bracket.

PLEAAASE

[sterile flame]

@jagged flume you still have the ranking up!

[surreal pecan]

It's over

It's over the GP*

[sterile flame]

Oh that's what it's called

[forest cedar]

@jagged flume BRACKET IS STILL ON SCREEN

[upbeat ridge]

what gameplay

[surreal pecan]

SAREEEEEEEEES-

[young jacinth]

And the mandatory saris forgetting overlay

[worldly kiln]

Panic!

[surreal pecan]

Lol yes

[jagged flume]

I will stream the rec

[icy oxide]

Le classic

[upbeat ridge]

mans still in the main menu

[surreal pecan]

MINES PROVIDE

[sterile flame]

🧠 Fart

[upbeat ridge]

riveting

[odd zealot]

@jagged flume BRACET

[icy oxide]

It's no mines anymore with this graphics btw

[jagged flume]

I'm streaming the rec we're fine

We're so okay

[surreal pecan]

True.

But how about Luna's game?

She needs to go right?

RIP

[gilded spindle]

slowking being a clown tournament, love it

[surreal pecan]

True

Always has been.

[jagged flume]

@gilded spindle vs @young jacinth

[surreal pecan]

Well, if I had a nickel for every time a tournament was decided by mines and mines alone, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's funny that it happened twice, right?

Well to be fair it isn't decided yet

Plaus is still yet to fight.

But I mean it could still happen.....

😏

[desert sky]

i might be biased but i think rails piercing only large shields would be good for balance

[upbeat ridge]

why just large shields, though?

[jagged flume]

Do you mean exploding against them?

[pliant edge]

Hmmmm... Maybe a bracket-shaped ship would help the bracket be on screen more often.

[jagged flume]

Because the explosion mechanics make them not pierce any shield

[desert sky]

i meant exploding yeah sorry

[jagged flume]

Why

Then

[fast oracle]

no

the explosion breaks all of my bumper on ion strategies too xd

[short tartan]

hi hi

luna!

wb!

[fast oracle]

:)

i was going to lose against slow anyway

[short tartan]

luna can u help me do match review at some point in the future?

[sterile flame]

this is why hotkeys are important

[fast oracle]

what does that mean exactly

[short tartan]

like look at how i can improve and stuff

[fast oracle]

ah sure

[short tartan]

ty!

do people not do tournament match reviews? i would think ppl would do it lol

[jagged flume]

I certainly did

[gilded spindle]

saris

that is not what I meant

[sterile flame]

gg all

[fast oracle]

but what does that mean, commenting stuff over the matches?

[upbeat ridge]

this is the most scuffed tournament ever

[sterile flame]

Tips on how to improve I think

[short tartan]

like rewatching stuff and pointing out errors and giving tips

[upbeat ridge]

oh some people do the live

[fast oracle]

most of the mistakes are just design stuff

piloting is a very intuitive thing, you can't study it

Just practice

[upbeat ridge]

anyway @gilded spindle derust

[short tartan]

yeah, rn i think piloting is my weakness

[gilded spindle]

that's the plan

[desert sky]

in my probably biased opinion large shields are overperforming small shields by order of magnitudes and from what I seen rails exploding on small shields is overkill, especially for barrel shoots in 2x1 gap i consider unfair and nerfing small shields avoider further

[upbeat ridge]

i think you could be expert level if you derust slowk

[short tartan]

agreed but imo its good to have stuff in the back of your mind for what to do in similar expectations

learn not lose

[fast oracle]

we can do mirror matches if you want another time

[upbeat ridge]

i don't know i analyze my own piloting a lot

[short tartan]

not what i meant but sure lol

[fast oracle]

i know what you mean but i think you won't learn a lot from that

we could try to do it anyway tho

[short tartan]

yeah

personally i think i will learn from it

i learned basic nuke flinging by failing and then have someone teach me (ty plaus). this is just a different version imo

[sonic flame]

iirc nuke flinging requires intense micro these days, no easy feat

[short tartan]

it can a bit

the way i do it is just by switching hotkeyed weapons

[fast oracle]

very nice tourney saris, awesome hosting 💜

[short tartan]

nuke flinging is the 1 skill i need to practice a lot

[fast oracle]

it's just intuition and practice. you just know when to launch them

[short tartan]

yup

rotation and not ramming is also a big one

[fast oracle]

nah it's easy

[icy oxide]

At that point you just need to rebalance rails again.

[desert sky]

i agree knowing when to fire and how to rotate is quite hard when you don't know what you are doing

[safe marsh]

Deepest appologies for completely forgetting that Saris asked me to fix PD like a week and a half ago

[surreal pecan]

WOW I've been talking to a wall in #multiplayer-lfg for the past 20 minutes and was wondering why everybody left all of a sudden agony

[granite river]

I have a scuffed and probably unoriginal idea, on ships with fewer weapon/micro hotkeys, could it be beneficial to bind the remaining hotkeys to specific sections of the ship so one can quickly turn them off in case a command room is lost?

Or do people already do this

[surreal pecan]

Well, I did say that the Blob fish has to be one of the funniest (yet most unsettling looking) things I've seen made in this game.

[desert sky]

yes

[surreal pecan]

Also how Saris is the final boss Plaus has to fight and crap.

[spring fable]

I do that

[granite river]

Oh sick

[surreal pecan]

I do that, yeah.

Till the end of existence and a few other ships of mine use it.

...Anyways Plaus is doing very well vs the final boss, he did defeat two phases and is on THE THIRD PHASE now.

[granite river]

Makes sense, I haven't looked at that many other peoples' competitive ships' config before, happy I derived it on my own ig

[pliant edge]

Commentator's curse. 😛

[surreal pecan]

True.

But alas, in the end the boss had the upper hand...

[desert sky]

people commonly forget to do it cos it's so rare to not snowball

[raven fern]

Is the tournament over or still going?

[granite river]

Ended

[raven fern]

Who won?

[fast oracle]

just ended

[granite river]

Ahhh

Ima definitely use them on my next ship

[short tartan]

im debating on turning on lock camera to ship and match ship rotation but match ship rotation especially gives me minor vertigo

[surreal pecan]

@jagged flume Why didn't you ever make the September tourney highlights? Just a question.

[jagged flume]

Nope

Er,

I didn't

[granite river]

I have if off because I still pilot with face mouse cursor and combining those two settings is 10/10 cursed

The dizziness factor too is fair

[safe marsh]

Combining those is practically an oversight lol

[granite river]

Literally impossible to fly straight with it

[short tartan]

yeesh

[fast oracle]

it's much better, you get used to the dizziness

[short tartan]

maybe, will spend a bit trying to get used to it but im unsure

[fast oracle]

i hated it but it's just better

most good players use it for a reason

[granite river]

I am curious though, is there any advantage with avoider to using face mouse cursor, my thought being that it could let me do quick rotational flicks while still strafing in a certain direction

[fast oracle]

face to cursor with avoiders is good

[short tartan]

it seems better but im unsure if i can effectivly make use of it and sorta relearn how to pilot

[upbeat ridge]

other than perfect heading strafe orbiting no

[granite river]

Lol, I guess I lucked out on my first choice of archetype

[surreal pecan]

I play with lock the camera off and I don't have the weapon firing arcs show up with direct control 🗿

[upbeat ridge]

then again, i use rts for avoiders

[granite river]

It's hard to aim with face ship to cursor but it's micro I'm fine doing it considering the only other things are maneuvering and turning off componenets for CP

[upbeat ridge]

you can use it with lock rot to incur a turn rate

[safe marsh]

The main advantage it gives you is really fine control over turns. Most other forms of DC are "pedal between forwards and hard right", whereas those settings make it really easy to command "slightly right". The main downside is it being really hard to command perfectly straight forwards.

[jagged flume]

GASP

[granite river]

That's the value it held in the game I used to play with this feature

I got really precise at controlling it and the skill definitely translates

[short tartan]

i think i play differently to a lot of ppl

[upbeat ridge]

dc, hold w

[jagged flume]

There's actually people that play mouse towards cursor avoider? How bizarre

[upbeat ridge]

most people play like that

[short tartan]

cause i dont use ai controled dc which it seems like lots of people do

[fast oracle]

lower skill ceiling -> better for new players.

in my opinion it was easier but I don't use avoiders that much

[upbeat ridge]

hey i didn't know people preferred locked rot DC

[safe marsh]

I had to switch to camera locked mouse towards cursor to practice a racing course. At a really small scale, a single tick of "hard right" can send you spinning.

[granite river]

Yep

[fast oracle]

plaus won right?

[granite river]

I knew it was better for squibs and such but wasn't sure if it was also okay to use for avoiders and such

[upbeat ridge]

well, that's pretty hard; you have to lead the turreted weapons

[short tartan]

yeah

but i like the control it gives me especially for moving the converging point

its like aimable ions in a strange way

[upbeat ridge]

i can see how that works

[fast oracle]

manual dcs are good at close range

[upbeat ridge]

if you can make it work, you do you

[granite river]

Does anyone else use shift click to do sequential targeting when using face ship towards cursor

[fast oracle]

i do that with nion nukes

[upbeat ridge]

i would do that anyway

[fast oracle]

i also have cancel targets keybinded to shift

[granite river]

Ohhh

[fast oracle]

so i have to press shift, then queue all of the targets

[upbeat ridge]

weird

[granite river]

Curious

[short tartan]

I also do DC for all missiles

[fast oracle]

yeah missiles should be manually controlled

[upbeat ridge]

i think using autofire is just overall worse on the apm

one tick is a lot of difference, so will two

[fast oracle]

apm?

[short tartan]

I mean I have them fire at cursor, I don't shoot them at a targeted tile

[granite river]

My current large shield avoider goes 18/18 on HLs and disruptors, should it be closer to something like 22/12 or 24/6 or smth
I was told 18 is a lot of disruptors
The HL only variant of amaranthine recusant has literally twice my HLs so I thought it might be an issue

[upbeat ridge]

oh, in high-stress situations you want to make simple moves

[safe marsh]

Actions Per Minute

[upbeat ridge]

it'd be easier to do click instead of select missiles autofire

[fast oracle]

oh I got the paint for third place!

i wanted first place for paint AND new skirt

but paint is fine too

[upbeat ridge]

ah well, we can't have everything
grats on the paint though (ps make it a cabal skirt)

[sterile flame]

Plaus did

[hazy root]

With alpha cgs ?

[gilded spindle]

I was the one with alpha cgs

[surreal pecan]

^

Bob fish turned out to be quite op.

(WITH THE GODDAMN DC HYPERBUFFS)

[jagged flume]

Oh nooo raaange (it got massively nerfed damage)

[sterile flame]

Wahoooooooooooooo

[fast oracle]

should I send the morbi or the ion to paint hmmmm

[surreal pecan]

I mean you were clearly the one struggling to beat a generic (whilst still pretty good) DC brick with an avoider.

Usually avoiders are amazing vs them unless they're like 16er boost

[jagged flume]

I was rusty and won the third round. Whos to say I couldn't make it more consistent

[surreal pecan]

I guess...

[jagged flume]

Though I will say the trend of being ridiculously fast has made it harder

I mean I'm all in favor of more buffs to not monothrust but whenever I do that there's huge pushes against it so I want it to be mroe unanimous or such before I commit to it

[surreal pecan]

Isn't 12er like the standard for dc rams though?

[sterile flame]

yes

[surreal pecan]

And even worse, the rebal actually makes them SLOWER.

[fast oracle]

yes, my ions were so slow

they felt weird

[sterile flame]

not that much,since the speed gains fall off

I only lost 5mps,and with boost thrusters you can regain some of it

[surreal pecan]

Oh yeaaah fossil felt hysterically sluggish too.

SO THAT'S WHY I COULDN'T DISENGAGE FROM ERIN

🤦‍♂️

Actually completely forgot about the thrust nerf.

It affects diags even worse however.

[sterile flame]

I'm sad my diagonal orbiter didn't work,but i'll try to improve it

[surreal pecan]

The idea amazingly wacky and I love it, but I feel like that kind of ship is better off being a kiter.

Also your lower missiles modules are sticking out far too much I think.

Much better off having them all face back.

[sterile flame]

it gets too wide then

maybe i can adapt it for career.

[surreal pecan]

Good luck with your further escapades!

[hazy root]

OK I couldn't watch turney... plaus won with a DC rammer right ?

[young jacinth]

Yes the blob fish reigned supreme

[hazy root]

Congrats for the victory

[young jacinth]

Thanks!

[raven fern]

Congrats to the top three! I'll have to check out the stream later to see how it all went down!

[fast oracle]

i need to see how you won against slow

[raven fern]

Slow's hooks are far too small on his alpha CG. I thought you learned that lesson in the previous tournament man! 🥹

[gilded spindle]

I haven't played since the last tournament lmao

[raven fern]

Fair enough haha 😄

Very respectful achievement getting second place while not playing for all this time. Well done

[fast oracle]

nerf slow

[gilded spindle]

I was being a clown this tourney

[surreal pecan]

And it was pretty epic.

[short tartan]

afterthoughts of how i did
1st match set, i did great, made a small mistake with the rod at the end and should have disengaged after i got nick into rod.
match set 2 review, mistake during 1st match was positioning but nothing i could have done, mistake during match 2 was overrotate and panic.
match set 3, mistake during match 1 was not orbiting at the start/not getting a spin ram bounce, mistake during match 3 was ship choice, i rammed instead of using hit and run

overall i did amazing

but i can do better

[surreal pecan]

To quote a very salty person, ''Obama giving Obama the medal.''

I am joking don't take this seriously

Oh by the way the joke stands from this.

[short tartan]

I feel like the Huge thrust nerf was just too big, huge thrust power should be 7000 instead of 6800

[surreal pecan]

I can agree on that.

[short tartan]

yeah. but i did beat my expectations which is an amazing thing for me

[jagged flume]

As if it changed anything anyway

[short tartan]

true lol

[forest cedar]

Wait you dont use ship relative cam?

[forest cedar]

I use alt+f, it makes it so the camera isnt permanently locked but still follows my rotation

imo the best way to use the camera in comp play

[short tartan]

ah oki, will try later ty!

[forest cedar]

Yeah

When you press alt f it will function the same as normal lock cam, but if you want you can just move your camera and it stops tracking ur ship

I agree with luna, its hard to get used to at the beginning but it makes aiming and planning inputs much more intuitive

Especially for cg and ions, with lock cam theyre infinitely easier to aim w mouse

[short tartan]

and DC I think

[surreal pecan]

I indeed do not.

Also, I'll share Blast Chamber my Tourney exclusive ship just for the archival purposes I guess.

[short tartan]

this was probably my favorite ship to fight against!

[surreal pecan]

Yours was nice too, if a bit cheesy with the utter deck spam.

Also I gave this ship's piloting injustice because it was very new (In fact I rolled it out just half a minute after Saris called me in lobby )

The fact that logistics WORKED was a miracle in itself.

[short tartan]

the difference between cheesy and efficiency is mindset imo

[short tartan]

oh lol

[surreal pecan]

Also that tilt was stupid.

[short tartan]

wdym?

[surreal pecan]

The one I did to get out of rod and one where you killed my reactor.

[short tartan]

ah ok. that's why I love having side armor

[surreal pecan]

I guess but it's usually an axiom that mirror matches between ships where one has more guns than the other usually ends up with the more gun player winning. A 20 blaster avoider probably won't have a good fight vs 30 blaster avoider.

Oh by the way I made the ship to counter CG alpha which I never fought ;-;

[short tartan]

that ship is made to counter alpha CG? looks too low armor imo

although my idea of defeating alpha CG is just "survive their alpha and then destroy"

[short tartan]

honestly I would love to see that matchup

[sonic flame]

so I am likely just being stoopid but
what happens with the 28th? jus existence?

[short tartan]

yup

[surreal pecan]

✨ Nothing ✨

[forest cedar]

Thats because the amaranthine recusant is a small shield avoider, and yours is a large shield avoider

And yes 18 eb is a bit much on a LS avoider

Some of that would be better spent on more HL

[desert sky]

hey 18 eb was what allowed tithy to fought like noone a mirror against moonlight bloom

although i agree for everything that not mirrors 18 is alot

[granite river]

I figured, I noticed that going down to 12 EB with my latest avoider barely made a difference even though I didn't add any HL
(I had an intrusive thought and added boost instead)

[forest cedar]

Boost can actually be pretty good on avoiders

I try to add it to mine if i have leftover budget

[granite river]

I noticed it really helped actually

Especially against traps

[forest cedar]

In mirrors too

[forest cedar]

Yeah

Being able to turn really fast is great

[granite river]

It certainly helped against night's flak avoider

Helped to rotate out of the flak's narrow firing angle a lot

And better spread damage

Not to mention how boost absolutely breaks the ankles of ion rammers and such more than avoiders already do

[forest cedar]

Yeah

I think mostly luna and i have developed a way to routinely kill avoiders with ion rams but boost can really help the avoider win it

[granite river]

Ship file if you're interested

[forest cedar]

With bellerophon i can kill any avoider player (except saris) from my experience

[granite river]

I put all my boost on one side which I think is even another step different from what people normally do
Yes I can only do my shenanigans to one side but that

1. Forces my opponent to play in a way to counter that boost which can be annoying to manage along with normal avoider shit
2. Means I get WAY more torque if I can make use of it

[granite river]

It's certainly terrifying

I'd like to try facing it at some point :P

[forest cedar]

Its a good idea for unpredictably switching strafe direction really fast

[granite river]

That was my main benchmark during building

[forest cedar]

Only problem is the dead time means your previously strong strafe is now weak

[granite river]

Yes but my turning thrust is fully intact

And so is my other side strafe

[forest cedar]

Yeah

[granite river]

Why I added small hooks too

[forest cedar]

?

[granite river]

Okay they're not really hooks but spikes

[forest cedar]

Yeah

[granite river]

But I decided not to do a rambar

[forest cedar]

Every LS avoider has those

[forest cedar]

It gets destroyed instantly, no point in having a structure cage on an avoider imo

[granite river]

Ye

[forest cedar]

I’ve tried it

[granite river]

Lol I noticed mine would just always break off, even though it was bad there's not a ton I could've done

[forest cedar]

Also those spikes should extend all the way to the end of the projection of the ls

Thats their only purpose

To keep people (and their damage) outside the LS

[granite river]

Ahhh

I'll try some tweaks to get the budget for that then

[forest cedar]

yeah

normally if you make some very minor changes you can get enough for the structure

[granite river]

I'll yeet some side armor I think

Or forward/backward thrust

[forest cedar]

Oh do not do that

[granite river]

Side armor then

[forest cedar]

Yup

Way less important than your ability to kite

[granite river]

Huh, I've noticed I already have difficulties kiting sometimes, makes more sense now

[forest cedar]

Yeah

[granite river]

Boost helps a little but I have to tilt so it's not great for that

[forest cedar]

Its a huge learning curve with every aspect of avoiders

[granite river]

Makes sense

Also when I hit my boost I just barely have enough countering torque to not make myself spin

When the boost is all firing at max

So thrusters are staying

[forest cedar]

You gave me an idea for another avoider

Im gonna put boost on both strafes

To make it really hard to track

[granite river]

Even lighter on weapons or small shields or what?

[forest cedar]

I think it wouldnt be great in mirrors but in non-mirrors it would excel

[forest cedar]

Small shield most likely

I prefer playing small shield avoiders

[granite river]

Ahhh

[forest cedar]

Scarlet snow is good but i like having overwhelming firepower

[granite river]

Interesting, I really prefer being compact and maneuverable

Puts more trust in piloting ability than I should probably be doing but it's really fucking fun lol

[forest cedar]

imo small shield avoiders are harder to play

Way more fragile

[granite river]

Oh yeah I'd bet

Quicker fights because of the firepower too right

[forest cedar]

Yeah

Reason why i won vs you in the sept tourney

[granite river]

Lol ye

Also my reactors had no armor

[forest cedar]

Wayy more firepower + crew spends less time in LS

[forest cedar]

That too

[granite river]

This new avoider I finally put my brain cells to work and added armor

It's made a huge difference

[forest cedar]

ul avoiders are defo a thing

But theyre hard

[granite river]

Could I see an example?

I'm intrigued

[forest cedar]

I dont have any

[granite river]

Some in excelsior right

[forest cedar]

But i think pine has one

[granite river]

Hmm, where might I find that

[forest cedar]

I have no idea honestly

[granite river]

All good

[desert sky]

ask juno i think she's the only one to have one

[granite river]

Just curious, is it possible to sign up for the second tourney even though I didn't do the first one?
If there's anything that carries over between tourneys yeah def not but idk if that's the case here

[jagged flume]

Most avoiders are so low on weight as to constitute Ultralight anyway. The small amount of armor something like Eidolon has is very worth the -3mph you lose for it

[granite river]

Sorta figured

[jagged flume]

As for the tourney issues the second will not be occurring, the extended date was in expectance of more than twelve slots. Though I will likely be dropping the new mod, there won't be an event

[granite river]

Ahh alright

Can't wait for the next one :p

[hazy root]

I thought I won that match anyway.
You should see against luna's rammer if it helps.

[upbeat ridge]

@granite river by the way, another reason why ul avoiders have mr/sr modules on their front is due to the less total mass used for logistics, which leads to more than a 3 m/s speedup from just removimg armor

and that gives you an edge in dodging deck cannons lol

[granite river]

Got it

I do wanna test vs luna's ion rammer, it's the ship I lost to in the september tourney with my old avoider

My piloting has also improved a good bit since then too so I'm curious

[raven fern]

Good luck! Another skilled avoider pilot fought about a dozen matches tonight while using his avoider and lost all of them against that fast ion

[granite river]

I suppose winning vs your prototype isn't really comparable as avoider right? Just looking for some kind of comparison

[raven fern]

Mine is an ion cruiser, not really comparable to a fast ion rammer

[granite river]

Mm true

[fast oracle]

:3

[granite river]

I want my revenge >:)

[young jacinth]

Do I get Champion role? (I need the bragging rights)

[vocal cloak]

Go pester the mods

[surreal pecan]

Meanwhile I didn't even think about the possibility I got the champ role last month and was a bit surprised when I woke up all red

[upbeat ridge]

no thats the sacrificial blood manifesting

[surreal pecan]

Who was I sacrificed to though.

Or who was sacrificed to me.

[young jacinth]

@worldly kiln guess your the unlucky mod I choose to pester. Could I please have the Champion role?

[worldly kiln]

Yea I'll message Walt

[young jacinth]

Thanks!

[surreal pecan]

Topic for #discord-meta to be honest.

[upbeat ridge]

i'm infinitely curious why saris doesn't just message walt immediately

[forest cedar]

Me

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/530901882219003908/1157769209506439290/2023-09-30_12_47_31.gif?ex=6546a319&is=65342e19&hm=4f511fa409198192f9b0e939dc3d8993e24fece07acdd744fac125d7c089257c&

lol

[surreal pecan]

Oh right, but it was honestly a neseccity.

[surreal pecan]

And you got your revenge.

In a scenario where my missiles were 25% less of a threat, I was 15% slower and you dealt twice the damage.

[hazy brook]

when the next 2v2 dom tourney

[hollow socket]

When's the next 1v1 elimination tournament

[raven fern]

Probably during the second half of November

[cloud escarp]

is the ship price for the tournament always the same each time? has it ever considered being changed?

[hard rover]

don't think it ever has though i could be wrong

[timid current]

Unless you count the 2v2 where each team had 3 mil, but even that forced each player to have 1.5 mil ships

If there were a non-1.5mil ship tournament, almost everyone would have to make new ships

[hard rover]

yeah that's the main reason why they don't happen ithink

[surreal pecan]

Welp I almost always make new ships for tournaments anyways, and making 500K ships is significantly easier than 1.5mils.

[vocal cloak]

Im sure the tourney host would consider other price brackets if enough people pester them about it

[raven fern]

For casual and unofficial tournaments I don't mind varying prices.
But for official tournaments I'd prefer to keep it at 1.5mil. Lots of time and effort is put into designing ships to have peak performance. Having to do so at varying prices would be a nightmare.
That's just my 2 cents

[fast oracle]

a nightmare? isn't it the whole point? to design ships?

I'd say a 500k or 750k tourney could be fun

1.5 should be the standard though

[surreal pecan]

500K, 750K and 1Mil are all very good price regions, to me at least, and would help wonders increase the uniqueness and variety of tournaments, and mix the meta up a bit. Who knows, maybe a different price region pvp will attract more players?

I have barely ever played pvp in classic, if ever, but from what I've played anything but 1.5mils were not discouraged in most lobbies, and (It probably doesn't have much to do with the actual different price ranges, but still) there were far more active pvp players at that time.

[fast oracle]

that's because of other reasons imo

[surreal pecan]

Also ''nooo I have to design new space ships in a game about designing space ships what a nightmare!''

[desert sky]

i don't want either for all tourney to be on different price range but some and perhaps without cashprice would be nice ^-^
note to self it look like lower price range below 1.5mil make the unanimity compared to above

[raven fern]

I have dozens of ships I spent time to perfect and continue to perfect for peak performance.
That can't be done overnight or even a few weeks for a new fleet

[fast oracle]

everyone would have to design 500k ships

[raven fern]

The issue I raised persists

[raven fern]

I'm glad you have endless hours to make a new fleet 😉

[surreal pecan]

Not everyone takes hyper-optimization that seriously, and if you do, that's not a problem of people who do want to mix up the pvp experience that was not factory-fabricated for 1.5mil ships and can offer much more variety.

[raven fern]

Anyhow, like I said that's just my two cents. Not looking to debate this further

[surreal pecan]

Also don't forget, these tournaments are also to a lesser extent advertisments for the game for newer players and a lot of people, me included have gotten courage and motivation to pick it up because of it. We do not want to create a false impression that 1.5mil is everything this game's pvp interaction has to offer.

[surreal pecan]

Sure, I can respect that I guess.

[fast oracle]

I've seen you complain about how there's no new big challenges once you have a few ships that work well.

I get your point...

[raven fern]

I did complain that pvp for experienced players becomes stale because we've practically discovered every possible and viable archetype.

Archetypes which will be identical no matter the price range

[fast oracle]

i completely disagree, the meta is different if you modify price range.

rails and ions get worse for example

[raven fern]

Meta in terms of what becomes the best choice is different, archetypes remain the same

[fast oracle]

but there's archetypes that only work in 1.5 and others that only work in 200k

[raven fern]

I would disagree, please name one that isn't possible to use at 1.5mil

[surreal pecan]

I would love to agree but most 500K pvp ships I've seen (and even made) are just 1.5mil miniaturizations 😭

[fast oracle]

because the 500k meta is not developed enough

[surreal pecan]

I suppose.

[fast oracle]

alpha cannons for example

[surreal pecan]

Cannon spam

[fast oracle]

i do know that avoiders for example are impossible to use in 500k

[desert sky]

that a good one

[surreal pecan]

Meanwhile I have a 500K avoider :)

[granite river]

Challenge accepted

[surreal pecan]

Air too

[jagged flume]

There was the whole mod thing but no one chose to take advantage of the new toys much at all

[hollow socket]

Too bad it had to be a mod

[raven fern]

Wasn't kine the one that created the 9 wall alpha cannon 1.5 nightmare? It actually worked more often than we would've thought
Alpha cannons have been done at 1.5

[desert sky]

nobody choose the even host modded lobby which was an absurdity to me

[jagged flume]

Anyway, modded tourney next month

[fast oracle]

developing new archetypes is a very slow process, it requires an initial idea from a very experienced player, and then slow development

[hollow socket]

Guess I'll wait until the new year's tournament then

[desert sky]

new mod or nah

[jagged flume]

You guys should unanimously agree on the other settings because I don't have to decide anything that way

[raven fern]

For a time early in its development we played it for over a week. People lost interest. My hypothesis is the lack of actual new archetypes it introduced

[jagged flume]

I had two weeks in the game when I concepted avoiders

[surreal pecan]

Blast Chamber, a deck cruiser, is a ship made specifically for the mod and that works only with the mod. Too bad it fell short against conventional DC spam (Or maybe I'm just a horrible pilot, probably the latter).

Also I had many failed back-nuke prototypes and thingies with rails but couldn't finish them in time for the mod 😔

[desert sky]

it surely take trial and errors but an unknown member of the community made a rough prototype of an assymetrical spinner traps months before slowking did
and both where made independently

[jagged flume]

PD should no longer crash the game. I'm curious how funky the huge thruster change will be

If people continue to struggle avoiding or otherwise dodging deck cannons and people agree with it I may try buffing all smaller thrusters again, but anyway, do test it yon players

[fast oracle]

the main problem with modded is that we don't play with the newbies

and it's fun to see them try to copy meta ships and give them advice and stuff

it's fun to see them excited about a boss fight xd

we have to agree to use the mod and the newbies just see "incompatible"

[jagged flume]

I wasn't aware noobs are that common

[granite river]

There have been quite a few recently

[fast oracle]

a lot of them have joined recently yeah

[raven fern]

Yep, to my delight I've counted over a dozen new players in the last few days

[granite river]

Does anyone know if they're in the discord or just randomly joining the lobbies?

[desert sky]

do we get the see the changelog from the last mod to this one
edit: i meant versions

[fast oracle]

I've explained the rules for duels like 10 times in the last few weeks

[fast oracle]

they probably just randomly join, but I always encourage them to join the discord and ask in #ships for advice

[granite river]

That's good to hear at least

[surreal pecan]

Does raw power nerf still apply over the ramp-up related nerf?

[fast oracle]

the advice in ships isn't always great but it's not terrible most of the time

[granite river]

Usually it's not pvp players giving feedback I find

[jagged flume]

The important part is to be friendly and encouraging. While feedback is important and relevant, if we want to retain players we have to convince them it isn't an elitest toxic cesspool like some players have done in the past

[fast oracle]

yeah

[jagged flume]

It already takes a considerable amount of patience to play pvp and revise ships, which can be tested and exhausted if you're caustic

[granite river]

Very true

[jagged flume]

I urge all competitive players to try making 1.25 or 1.0 mil ships for fairer fights, as well

[fast oracle]

most of the newbies want to build ion rammers once they see my ships :3

[surreal pecan]

Winning with a 1mil vs 1.5mil might be even more discouraging for the latter but if the change is not large then it's not an issue.

[raven fern]

I play 500-750k ships against new players 😅

[granite river]

Honestly it's not a bad starting place either

[surreal pecan]

Yes because you curbstomp them until they succumb to your will nudge them in that direction.

[jagged flume]

It should be encouraging: it shows you care, on top of how far you can come as a player to overcone the cost advantage

[fast oracle]

i usually give them my ship and they we play a duel and let them win in the last second

[raven fern]

Biased ion fanatic 😝

[jagged flume]

That being said, 500k or 750k are low enough to potentially start giving the wrong impression

[surreal pecan]

True.

[surreal pecan]

I usually play with people who I know only has aesthetic ships with aesthetic ships.

My aesthetic ships are usually optimized enough to have a fair go whilst also having significant handicaps like exploitable aesthetic prongs and cost wasted on things like hyperdrives and sensors.

[jagged flume]

Oh yeah, if you have zany test ships that don't work competitively, use those matches to test. Don't bring your A game ships, at the very least use them very sparingly

[surreal pecan]

My favorite pvp aesthetic ships.

[granite river]

Big Ben, heh

[surreal pecan]

Yes. I also have my fingers crossed any person will get the steamlands reference, but hasn't ever happened to me 🥹

[surreal pecan]

@jagged flume could you answer this?

[jagged flume]

I don't know what that means

[surreal pecan]

Is the thrust nerf still present on huges, on top of the 4sec to 5sec ramp-up change, or has it been reverted?

(I hope this makes more sense)

[jagged flume]

The changes are relative to vanilla, not previous incarnations of the mod. Any change not listed does not exist

[surreal pecan]

Thanks.

[desert sky]

imma say it again but reactor changes are my favourite

[gilded spindle]

The fun of cosmoteer when I was most active was playing new players and promptly curbstomping them, and thenafter helping them

[hazy brook]

quetion: why is 1.5M the default price range

[short tartan]

it used to be 2M but then people started bringing a 1.5M ship and a 500k ship so it just changed to 2M

or it people ran 2 1M ships idk

[spring fable]

it was generally decided that its a good price to buy a reasonable amount of things

[pliant edge]

At least from my experience, 1.5mil seems like a price point that requires significant experience and optimization to fit things into a single ship.

[jagged flume]

The old host randomly chose it and everyone universally agreed it was ideal since it wasn't overly large, but allowed for the maximum amount of potential in what you wanted to do

[gilded spindle]

It was 1 million, then 2 million, then 1.5

once we tried 1.5 we liked it so it stuck

[pliant edge]

The challenge of course, is that for a less experienced player like myself, fitting what they're trying in to 1.5mil can be a daunting challenge.

On which note, back to the Rebalance cannon module grind! Now somewhat reduced from losing the old test world in an unfortunate overwrite.

[raven fern]

We highly recommend to new players to take a look at the Excelsior discord to check out the archives of ships and useful information. Not to mention expert player help: #links message

You can also check out the online archive here to learn from other competitive player ships on the Excelsior page: https://cosmo-lilac.vercel.app/

[pliant edge]

I'll check it out, but part of my problem might be the things I want to do in games like Cosmoteer often seem... rare.

[cloud escarp]

the official 2023 october what? the what happened on october 2023 that was official, saris?

||(I know what actually happened duh, just thought the title was funny)||

[pliant edge]

Why, the official 2023 Cosmoteer edition of October, of course.

Not anything in it, the month itself.

[raven fern]

All other iterations of October are considered non-canon

[surreal pecan]

October only became official during the time frame of this tournament being streamed.

[hard rover]

and this one is canon so my birthday was canon, nice

[surreal pecan]

Understandable, it's kind of a perfect middle ground between lotta munny and not lotta munny.

But I think 500K, 750K, 1mil, 1.5mil and 2mil are all VALID price ranges for high end competitive elimination.

[gilded spindle]

Not so sure about 500k tbh

but the others seem fine

[hard rover]

750k would be better than 500k imo

[surreal pecan]

Hate for the 500K >:C

[gilded spindle]

500k is too low

all you'll get is cannon spam and missile kites

[hard rover]

honestly, going for a third of regular elim price range is probably not that good of a choice imo

too low

[desert sky]

idk i'm aint so sure 750k is better, 500k is low enough it's a building challenge yet high enough armor get viable and cannon spam useless

[naive lion]

There was just a unofficial tourney at 500k and there was good archetype variety

[granite river]

500k needs a little more time for the meta to settle I think (unless it's been a thing for a while)

It seems like a nice price mark though

[surreal pecan]

Only thing you can't really make with 500K is ULMSF and like there are 3 people in the community who have ever made it.

[desert sky]

tb rails are on a good spot for that one

[spring fable]

bro didnt even watch 500k tourney by plaus

[spring fable]

im probably dumb: What is a ULMSF?

[gilded spindle]

I can tell you that you're right

[spring fable]

made this lil guy for it

[gilded spindle]

lmao what

mini ul nuke

okay that's really funny to me

Did it work?

[spring fable]

yeah i won tourney...

[gilded spindle]

Nice

Low-budget champion, but still congrats

[spring fable]

shhhhhh its a champion role nobody needs to know how i got it

[vocal cloak]

thats cute

[spring fable]

and this is why 500k should be a PvP standard

[short tartan]

honestly I like the piloting feeling of 1.5m everything is less twitchy

[spring fable]

but 500k is smooth plus fast while they can still look cool

[pliant edge]

Silly idea: One round in each weight class. Or, price class, as the case may be.

[jagged flume]

I won't be hosting events from here on out
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O1sH4gSi55Z_FtkjETybjjHxXEipAum0aPjILBt3ybg/edit?usp=drivesdk

Someone will likely replace me. The Balance mod may continue development in their hands, or not at all

[pliant edge]

Best of travels to you then, wherever life should take you from here.

[fast oracle]

thank you for everything saris 💜

[hard rover]

i hope that you'll be happier and you will have more good memories wherever you may end up, thank you for everything you brought to the community, we would never forget you 💞

[desert sky]

wish you the best 🤍 (i'm serious)

[upbeat ridge]

gl

[sterile flame]

Best of luck Saris.

[raven fern]

As sad as I am to hear that you will be leaving us, I do wish you success in your future endeavors!
Thank you for all the time and effort you have put into this community!

[short tartan]

ty Saris for all you've done and all the work you have put in to make the tournaments as awesome as they are

I think if the tournaments are to keep happening we need to have two hosts not one. that way one person isn't doing all of the work

[surreal pecan]

Ultra
Light
Mobile
Spinner
Fortress

[young jacinth]

Whats a fortress?

[surreal pecan]

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fortress

[hollow socket]

It is quite unfortunate that things have developed in that way,
Good luck on your future endeavours, Saris.

[surreal pecan]

WAAAAIT are you being dead serious about this?

😭

[hollow socket]

who would even be able to replace as tournament host? Saris is very charismatic at voicing over the matches

[short tartan]

people are going to have to volunteer

[short tartan]

another advantage of two hosts is that they could likely both play

personally I think blaze would be a good fit but it's not a task to be pushed on someone

it might be a smart idea to not have a tournament in November so we can sort this all out

ultimately I think as the previous host @jagged flume should get the final say in who hosts beacuse he knows what it takes

but if Saris doesn't want to do thats ok

[fast oracle]

usually that's even more work xd

[hollow socket]

Being host means that occasionally you'll have to forfeit multiple hours of a day for the matches to take place, not all players have that time I assume to do the hosting

[fast oracle]

i would host without commentary but that's boring

[hollow socket]

Yea

The commentary and knowledge of PvP has a big impact

[short tartan]

yeah

if I had the game knowledge I would volunteer

[gilded spindle]

If I had any level of charisma I would do the same

[hard rover]

i mean you kinda do

[gilded spindle]

It's sad to see you go, but I understand how tournaments have become an obligation and not something you do for fun, I wish you the best of luck in your next ventures

[granite river]

I will always remember you Saris, not just for the incredible things you've done but also the kindness that I've seen equally influential players in other communities greatly struggle to express or be entirely incapable or expressing.
As sad this all is, you definitely made the right call and I commend you for that. Applicable skills rule.
As someone who has been in a similar situation and made the wrong call, it makes me wordlessly happy to see someone not make the same mistake.

I know I haven't been around here for that long, but it's been such a pleasure talking to and learning from you for the time I've been here <3

[surreal pecan]

slowking says this very line with his cexy British accent.

[gilded spindle]

I take great offence to this

[surreal pecan]

How so, it's a complement

[gilded spindle]

The country is wrong is all I can say

[surreal pecan]

Oh-

[hard rover]

lemme guess, you're german, idk you just give me germany vibes

[gilded spindle]

Irish, actually

[hard rover]

damn

that automatically makes you charismatic

[surreal pecan]

Even better lol

I did get the territory very close though.

[raven fern]

You'll never get ME pot of gold!

[short tartan]

I'll host after I've won a tournament

will that happen? idk

how did the official tournaments start up?

we could ask Walt or a dev to host it?

[hard rover]

captain redstone is probably a good candidate for tournament host

[short tartan]

yeah

there needs to be a formal system for getting the next host, like volunteers and stuff, I wish Saris set this up for his last thing ngl

but I completely understand why he didn't

[hard rover]

already has the role too but i'm not sure whether he will be available for hosting or wants to though

[short tartan]

yeah, we just need to wait a bit ig, this will most likely sort itself out

[raven fern]

You guys are aware that anyone can host as long as they contact the staff right?

[hard rover]

yeah but we're discussing who is the most fit for hosting

[surreal pecan]

He's kinda busy with the dev team shinanegans probably.

[hard rover]

i mean every dev is so that's a reason to pick someone who isn't a dev

[surreal pecan]

But redstone is a dev.

[hard rover]

yeah i said that as a reason not to pick cap

[short tartan]

yup but we are just concerned for what is going to happen to the official tournaments

[jagged flume]

If you start practicing at casting, you could eventually be good at it. Just a matter of time and diligence, y'know? Just make sure to ask who replaces me if you can help cast and you'll get there in no time

There's actually multiple people already interested who I've put in contact with Walt, so this should only be momentary hitch as far as the events go

[fast oracle]

great

[surreal pecan]

But what if I'm ashamed of my dumb voice?

[raven fern]

A little practice, talking in front of a mirror(definitely not personal experience) and maybe asking some friends to listen in order to give feedback all helps in giving a confidence boost

[jagged flume]

I reccomend watching other esports casters. LowkoTV in particular is someone I've wanted to emulate in the past

[fast oracle]

this is my problem

and honestly it's decent because i did a lot of training

and also non native speaker

[spring fable]

dang, will miss you Saris, Game Over, Thanks for playing

[stone zephyr]

godspeed saris

[granite river]

😒

[jagged flume]

?ban @oak belfry Guy's done nothing but cause problems and attempt to skirt rules lol

[hybrid holly]

localclosetpartisan was banned.

[jagged flume]

Damn I wonder if my active moderation or tournament hosting was more important in the grand scheme of things

[odd zealot]

Follow your dream as you want. Good luck out there!

[pliant edge]

Who can say, but I at least wouldn't be looking into the Cosmoteer community or talking about it with my own friends if not for your work.

[spring fable]

You definately helped me to enjoy the game more ~~as well as paint ship good ~~

[surreal pecan]

They absolutely were.

Ehh, I'll miss you a ton Saris. You've been an integral part of the community and a very important one at that. Your tournaments and the MP highlight videos were a big part on why I got motivated to try out PvP and I've enjoyed my stay a lot, so thank you :'>

[scarlet moth]

Goodbye Saris, u were indeed a good one in this community for the past 5 years you've been here, I had seen u from time to time back then and each time you have been an integral part in this community indeed. May u achieve your dreams and fulfill your passions especially in your artwork and writing endeavors. Best of luck in your life and may your candle burn as bright as the stars out there.

[sharp bane]

when I get my new usb mic I'd be open to being on like a rolling cast of hosts, I do have the experience to smoothly host a tournament but just need a better mic.

tbh, for a standard tournament it would be less commitment than actually participating. But editing a video if we still do that would be a lot of extra work.

[reef bloom]

goodbye, saris. all of the incredible work you’ve put into the community will not be forgotten. your productions were the reason I decided to try mp after years of playing creative. you are one of the main reasons that this game has gotten at all popular. you were the best

[nova juniper]

saris ligma sigma alpha male

[void condor]

ooooookaaaayyy...?

[torpid jacinth]

❌

[worldly kiln]

?warn @inland lagoon R2, let's not call other users slurs

[hybrid holly]

tonietiz has been warned.

[inland lagoon]

must've been a misclick

[worldly kiln]

Yea

[fast oracle]

?

[desert sky]

must have been prysjm cat

[raven fern]

Tournament this week end hosted by Plaus
#links message

[surreal pecan]

How many times will you advertize this Blaze? Because I hope you do it enough to get 16 players XD

[hard rover]

if blaze gets 16 players i most likely won't join due to timezone issues, unless the tournament happens like 6 hours earlier

[raven fern]

I'm just a participant, Plaus is the host!

[raven fern]

Twice I guess?

[young jacinth]

Thanks! Mod didnt respond to me rip

[raven fern]

Hey guys, I intend to host an unofficial racing tournament in December. Vote for the date that would be most convenient to you.
More details to come soon.

• *** 1 : Saturday, December 9***
• *** 2: Saturday, December 16***

[surreal pecan]

Huh, what the heck is a racing tournament 😆

[upbeat ridge]

whoever goes through a course faster wins

[hollow socket]

Do we get to see the course?

[gilded spindle]

Nope

[young jacinth]

Many are posted here: https://discord.com/channels/1049532358384156723/1104833476018045009

[desert sky]

why hosting on some youtubers discord server and not the main one ?

unofficial tournament has been host here for very long

[gilded spindle]

no official hosts rn

[spring fable]

bc then can award champion role for unofficial tourneys

[raven fern]

Why host a tournament in the community that I'm managing? 😆

[desert sky]

mhm now i'm forced to join a community of someone i do not know if i want to partake in unofficial tournament

[raven fern]

To be fair I should change the discord's description to being the hub of weekly pvp events. That's really what it turned into after Blade left months ago
Another reason why I'm hosting there is because it's easier for me as I can organize the discord how I see fit and post announcements as well

[hollow socket]

we can host some unofficial ones here too

although it is not likely

[desert sky]

blade left ? they are still mentionned in the rules

[raven fern]

I never bothered to change it

[desert sky]

i understands making a unofficial tournament server like Execade's did a bunch o' years ago
but please scatter the confusion that it isin't a youtuber server

[desert sky]

if i'm aint wrong being a tournament host is quite simple like blake just casually asked if he could in ask-walt

[raven fern]

Done

[trim kestrel]

I'm right here aren't I?

[trim kestrel]

if you hosted it here you would get more players but I guess the issue would be can you handle a higher player count

also just so you guys know if you have any tournament ideas feel free to reach out to me or if you would like to host officially Walt

[barren aurora]

set target and then make the thrusters spin the ship real fast. you need ball armour though

[chilly barn]

just four months late

but thanks for the info

[barren aurora]

np

[white apex]

optimization tourney maybe? hosted by me ofc

everyone gets a set of parts, see who can optimize hardest for cost, crew, weight, total size, etc

easily asynchronous

probably just cost, crew, weight as categories

[upbeat ridge]

first bracket ions

[white apex]

nah first is cannon or shield so the noobs have a chance

[upbeat ridge]

fair

[young jacinth]

doesnt have to be official. Just do it lol

[white apex]

would be cool if it was official

[hard rover]

still cool even if not official

i wanna get roasted for logistics running on hopes and dreams, thoughts and prayers, duct tape and superglue

and whatever comes to mind at that moment

[white apex]

i should participate and probably win every cost category

[timid current]

I'd participate in that, it sounds cool

[surreal pecan]

Overconfident aren't ya.

[timid current]

The one concern is that there'd be ties in some of the simpler categories

[surreal pecan]

Also who'd even judge those ships and how would the judging be objective? There can be a lot of scenarios where several optimization solutions are better than other more objective ones, depending on the situation.

Also how'd one split cost efficiency, crew efficiency, compactness, so on.

Sounds like a pain to host and probably wouldn't attract many people.

[young jacinth]

Id also just love to see an micro optimisation guide

[timid current]

Cost efficiency and crew efficiency would be separate categories

[surreal pecan]

Oh right.

[granite river]

Honestly, 🔥

[surreal pecan]

A ship hull tournament sounds like fun to me. You are given a chunk of corridors and you've got to assemble a ship out of it to use in elimination bracket. You should NEVER leave the bounding box presented, nor make anything smaller.

[white apex]

first is going to be shield, very simple "make a ship that flies into the sun" and it will be judged by distance travelled
score is distance/cost

[surreal pecan]

That is actually quite smart.

[white apex]

other scores like distance/crew, distance/mass, etc are included too

[granite river]

“you get 20 corridor, 3 standard thrusters, 3 laser blasters, [blah]”
“now wreck your friends”

Sounds fun ngl

[timid current]

Max crew efficiency: have a bunch of shields in a row in front of each other, all powered off except the front one, and just turn them on sequentially lol

Alpha sundiver

[granite river]

Alpha shields

[white apex]

no micro

u send ship file to me

i test it

it should also perform mostly the same on other devices, so they will be public after everyone has submitted

[surreal pecan]

As a further rule to avoid alpha the shield ship has to sit with its shields on for exactly a minute.

Or just under 8 seconds on 8x speed?

[white apex]

u can only last so long w/ alpha shields

u may win the distance/crew but u will lose every other category

[surreal pecan]

But you will win distance/crew by a humungous landslide.

[white apex]

i imagine armor block would be better for distance/crew

[surreal pecan]

Armor wouldn't be allowed though right?

[white apex]

why not?

[surreal pecan]

What's stopping participants from neglecting the way of the shield?

[white apex]

nothing :P

[granite river]

death.

[white apex]

i think if u can get armor to work that would be interesting

and also u may need armor anyways to focus ur shields

[surreal pecan]

Hyper thin large shield filament focused by armor can pretty much facetank the sun with no issue unless it stands right next to the corona for prolonged periods of time, and with sufficient speed you'll be able to touch the sun without them going down hopefully (Usually the limitation of these shields is reactors being overstrained, you'd most likely have 6 crew per large shield too in such a scenario).

[granite river]

It’s possible to facetank the lowest point above the surface with only 1 large shield iirc

[white apex]

a ship 5x cheaper only needs to get 20% of the way through

it's regen/cost

and crew and stuff as well

i'll think about it more

[granite river]

Can’t wait :D

[hollow socket]

So a ship that costs nothing and moves 0% of the way is equal to that

I guess my submission is already done then

[granite river]

Now paint it :P

[hollow socket]

Already painted

[granite river]

I’ve been outplayed

[surreal pecan]

Honestly at that point it's pretty complicated and 90% of the audience watching it could probably not understand a single thing this crazy optimization man is blabbing about.

[upbeat ridge]

that was solved in the beta

[white apex]

there will be other things too

probably 1 thing for every part

[white apex]

for mass? i don't think so

[upbeat ridge]

heh
don't underestimate what stuffphoton (and i) can do

[white apex]

then win :D

ty for discovering the point of the tourney

[hollow socket]

I already solved that, and it weighs 0

[white apex]

how does it move

0/0=0 for my purposes

and if u just use cr+thrust, elimination is by first damage taken

[hollow socket]

It costs nothing, so it moves 0% of the way, just as 5x cheaper only needs to go 20% of the way

[granite river]

What if there were small amounts of points for correctly reproducing known optimal arrangements?
This way the other problems can be a little more complicated to the point where optimal solutions are not yet known, but newbies still have a decent chance to get points

I would say tools should be disallowed too but that’s hard to enforce asynchronously

[white apex]

why no tools? it's optimization

[granite river]

Raw test of your optimization skill?

[white apex]

even known optimal is disproven often

[granite river]

Although you could argue it makes it fair for newbies

[white apex]

noobs have access to the same tools (unless luna decides to be mean)

[white apex]

examples: ion arrangement w/ corridor, using corridor for capacitor in missile modules, etc

[granite river]

Honestly, thinking about it that way I think tools are fine if it’s very clearly disclosed that they exist to newbies

[white apex]

yeah i'll include them in the rules and where to access them

i only know of 2 though - luna bot and walkway calculator

[granite river]

Ion prism calculator?

[white apex]

yare bot is too unpolished i think

o that too

wait the planner?

[granite river]

I don’t know enough about it I just know it exists

[hollow socket]

For ion prism calculator just have the least amount of prisms

None

[white apex]

the prism planner is just a thing to make a core out of the game

[granite river]

You have a link?

I don’t remember where it is 😓

[white apex]

cosmoteerion.neocities.net iirc

not that

[granite river]

lmfao

[white apex]

https://cosmoteerion.neocities.org/

[void condor]

boi

[upbeat ridge]

have you ever heard of the 0 ring ?

[white apex]

nope

but i probably should

[white apex]

these r all the bots/calculators/helpers i know of, any others?

[upbeat ridge]

good luck getting either from me

[white apex]

2?

[upbeat ridge]

walkway and crew calculator are the same

[white apex]

o

i was referring to the old desmos walkway calculator

[upbeat ridge]

oh yeah that one

the crew calculator is just the improved version

lol

[white apex]

i see

:isforme:

[upbeat ridge]

i have yet to improve it further

as the very inactive core maintainer lmao

[icy oxide]

Then what reward should be for 1st place? "Master of Optimization"?

[snow seal]

i think it still falls under design

[icy oxide]

It's still other side of design and not "visual"

[white apex]

nothing bc it's not official (yet)

and 4 winners and 4 roles is too much

[hollow socket]

You get free paint done by air

[hard rover]

is air good at paint?

[hollow socket]

No idea

[white apex]

"sometimes"

[hard rover]

good enough for me

[white apex]

some of my recenter paints

[hollow socket]

I'm expecting Saris Quality paint

You'll have to up your paint game for this tournament air, else you might lose it

[white apex]

lose what? the theoretical tournament that i'm not participating in?

[hard rover]

good paint mostly, imperium, bottom center ship and bottom left ships can be improved though

[white apex]

yeah probably, not working on improving my paint skills atm

[desert sky]

all triangles or cubes
although i really like the top right one

feel different it's decent
although the paint can be improved

[surreal pecan]

That middle one is the greatest paintjob I've ever seen.

All the others are mediocre (I personally like Atria though)

[hard rover]

atria is good

so is candela

candela just gives me air vibes

i love it

[surreal pecan]

Candela is charming, has good scheme and I guess its design is cool (If very not suited to career), but paint itself is very messy.

[fast oracle]

you should just open source it

[surreal pecan]

Master of appeasing air.

[hard rover]

air bender basically

[surreal pecan]

Great pun.

[upbeat ridge]

not until it's ready

[white apex]

appeasair or airpeaser

[surreal pecan]

Appeasair great pun too.

[fast oracle]

why though, it's not like you'd sell it. We just need a better UI for it, and that could be made with a simple wrapper and minor tweaks.

It's your decision I guess

I have to be honest I tried to replicate the code and it wasn't straightforward

It already works

[upbeat ridge]

i'm fine with people making a replica/fork of it

just don't redistribute the code itself... yet

[fast oracle]

to make a fork you need the source fine

it goes against my principles of opensourcing everything and teaching everyone that's willing to listen but meh

[upbeat ridge]

it's under the principle of not sharing the source code out of shame

[fast oracle]

my bot code is a mess too xd

it's what happens when you make something without any expectations and it grows by itself

it wasn't ready to grow but it did anyway

[upbeat ridge]

eh, the day i finally open-source it is the day i standardize my code

[fast oracle]

it will never be good enough for you, but releasing something is a great learning experience

a tweet from one of my professors :3

[raven fern]

Hey guys, just a reminder that there's a 100k elimination tournament taking place tomorrow and you can still sign up
More info: #events message

[hard rover]

mostly likely won't show up

[white apex]

yipee i m host now

[granite river]

Oh boy optimization tourney inc

[white apex]

i will now find 600 grammatical errors in my docs

[hard rover]

holy shit air you did

i can participate

[white apex]

#1178394868335255572

[hollow socket]

Hmmm

[granite river]

Oh no

[hollow socket]

Nice

[hard rover]

so how does it work? do i just submit any ship?

[white apex]

it's not going to do anything, so why not

[white apex]

i announce rules for phase 1 -> you dm me a ship before deadline -> i personally test -> you get score (and .rec file for anticheat) -> go to step 1 but phase 2

[granite river]

Why is everything super spaced 🗿

[hard rover]

ok

[white apex]

the template has justified half the time for seemingly no reason

[granite river]

Weird

[surreal pecan]

Wow, air really did it, GGs my man.

[white apex]

now i just need all the red roles, the green one and the yellow ones

[granite river]

bragging rights

[white apex]

lol yes

prize is hard bc i can offer subpar paint (is subpar) or optimization (if u win u r probably already good)

[hard rover]

hire someone to do the painting

[hollow socket]

You get to brag about having a whole 1 less crew on a ship in comparison to the 2nd place guy

[white apex]

i think the winners will probably come down to crew spawning randomness

[granite river]

Heheheh

That's why I feel weird about there only being 1 trial

Crew randomness

[white apex]

helps the noobs a bit and also saves me time

[granite river]

Mm yeah, good point

[white apex]

i do not want to run 50 tests on everything lol

[granite river]

Do you think if two players score sufficiently close together additional trials would be warranted

Like even 2-3 additional if there's a large chance crew randomness is a factor

Just throwing ideas out there

[white apex]

i would need to math that but maybe next time

i m hoping that everyone's design will be distinct enough that it will not be an issue

[hollow socket]

Likely not

[white apex]

especially because ppl will optimize for different categories (cost, crew, mass, overall)

reason i did that is because a lot of noobcore designs are actually very crew or mass efficient

[granite river]

Huh, I never really thought about the crew aspect of those designs but it makes total sense
Many people start in career where crew is the primary constraint so they'll do whatever it takes to use less crew even if it means using more resources

Cool that they have a place here

[white apex]

crew is literally 1/4 of the contest what do u mean niche lol

[granite river]

wrong word

[hard rover]

also i'm assuming alpha is banned

[hollow socket]

Just have no sustain and the fastest ship

[surreal pecan]

Air paints a 10 million ship that is filled with curves ||(AIR'S FAVORITE TRUST ME :D)|| for you.

[white apex]

nope

good luck making it work though

[granite river]

Free optimization check for a ship of any size or type 🗿

[hard rover]

consider the following, nuke alpha

all i have to optimize is thrust

[granite river]

what if I also build a nuke alpha

but optimize the nukes?

[hard rover]

but i could just do alpha thrust

[surreal pecan]

Yay finally Chronos can have not shit logistics.

[white apex]

"all terrible"
ez

[granite river]

giving air a purposefully unoptimized ship for entertainment purposes

[hard rover]

instant disqualify + ban from future optimization tournaments

[white apex]

that will only get a non0 score in 1 category :(

[surreal pecan]

That will result in an instant ban from tournaments if you ask me.

[white apex]

if u can win w/ that i will be very sad

[surreal pecan]

Hey should we force a non-saris architect into painting something for the winner?

[granite river]

challenge accepted

[hollow socket]

I don't know what you mean by unoptomized, that's the best ship I've ever witnessed

[spring fable]

not an architect but i could probably do it as long as they want cabal

[surreal pecan]

Me me me me

I could volunteer as LE REWARD GUY

But what happens if I win?

Do I reward myself?

[hollow socket]

The winner of the optimization tournament gets the prize of painting their own ship

[white apex]

@surreal pecan @spring fable
which category's winner do u want to paint? and also do u have any constraints on what u will paint (the winning ship (it will literally just be a module) or a different ship they give u, something like that)

[spring fable]

ill paint a module

but its gonna be cabal

[hollow socket]

We give them a 360m costing ship to paint

[white apex]

what category

[spring fable]

i wont do that

havent looked at the categories yet...

[white apex]

it's just overall, cost, crew, mass