#Cross-loader common tags convention

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

lapis wren
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See: fabric before it's convention tags

cobalt moon
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What’s wrong if people add their own beds to that tag? Isn’t that what it is for?

regal bridge
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Though with certain things it may be a problem where it affects behaviour too much

spring crane
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The goal is to rename the tags not revisit how they are used

cobalt moon
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^

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That can be a later discussion lol

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Lots more fights

cobalt moon
regal bridge
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Yeah, I'm aware - I'm just saying that for some use cases adding to a vanilla tag can be a bad thing, but in general it should be fine even without these common tags

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Mhm - and I feel that for common tags, we'd want to primarily describe what things are, rather than how they behave

spring crane
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Both are in scope

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They are common tags and nothing less or more

cobalt moon
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I didn’t include the vanilla biome tag copies in the Neo pr as idk what neo’s stance will be for copies of vanilla tags and I didn’t want to bog down the pr with that whole discussion

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I’ll probably make that a separate pr after mine

spring crane
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Would be nice to reach consensus on that too before merging the PRs as it's important to Fabric users

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(don't want c:plains -> common:plains -> common:is_plains for example)

cobalt moon
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Fabric has vanilla tag biome copies so they shouldn’t see any changes when switching to common. It’s so biome mods can tag their biomes as plains without getting the vanilla structures added

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Since the vanilla structures pulls from the vanilla biome tags

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With no easy way for the biome mods to be tagged properly and avoid those structures

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Hence why fabric has vanilla biome tag copies under c (and now to common in the fabric pr)

regal bridge
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Yeah, my personal thought is that common tags shouldn't imply any specific behaviours or side effects to be checked against directly - mods should have something like mymod:cannot_be_relocated/custom_piston which imports the common tag

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(I forget if the common tag is cannot be relocated or can be relocated)

cobalt moon
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That’ll be on the modder as we can’t stop people from polling the common tag directly

cobalt moon
regal bridge
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That's true, but we can at least push for that at a future point

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(which is where a repo documenting the tags would be helpful)

cobalt moon
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Fabric wiki had a section about tags and that didn’t save the c namespace lol

regal bridge
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Fair 😅

spring crane
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Common behavior tags should be... well... common

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I don't want that Lex-induced dogma anymore

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Common tags are for common needs, period

regal bridge
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But what if I (as a modpack maker) want a block to be movable by pistons, but not by frames or create?

cobalt moon
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The idea was the common tag has the original collection. Then individual mods have their own tags that pulls from the common tag and they use their own tag for the behavior. Thus allowing modpack makers to adjust the behavior of one mod rather than all mods reading the common namespace. But if they want to adjust all mod, the pack maker can edit the common tag

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Issue is, there’s no way to enforce this kind of standard so that’s left up to the modder

regal bridge
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oops, ping 😅

cobalt moon
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I’m fine with pings

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@cobalt moon

spring crane
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Ah in that sense yeah that's fine

regal bridge
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I admit entirely that there's no way to force modders to do it that way, but we can at least push them to do the right thing by documenting them in a single, easy to browse location

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And linking to it wherever possible (e.g. in the NeoForged MDK)

cobalt moon
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I guess when the NeoForge site is setup more, a page could be made for documentation. Unless it’s going to be on gemwire instead. Then you can make the pr to wherever the mdk repo is to link it lol

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Not sure where in the mdk the link would even go

regal bridge
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Probably the README

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there's an additional resources location with a bunch of docs

cobalt moon
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people read that?

regal bridge
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I'm sure some people do 😅

cobalt moon
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ok I have a problem. Wall banners are blocks. But there's no wall banner item. Now I need to figure out how to make the item tag pull from the block tag but exclude wall banners cleanly. As the alternative is defining alll of the colored blocks manually.... Or maybe I just do the same loop as block but without the wall banner instead of copying from block tag

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got a solution

regal bridge
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hey can we pin this? i'm checking in every so often (since i keep forgetting to subscribe to the prs) and it'd be super helpful if i could find them easily 😅

worthy mirage
cobalt moon
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what would the folder name be?

primal quarry
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raw_ore_blocks

cobalt moon
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are raw ore blocks even that much different than the rest of the storage blocks?

primal quarry
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technically not

cobalt moon
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hmm why is quartz even here actually. Quartz blocks cant be crafted back to quartz

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so quartz block is not a storage block for the resource

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amethyst too

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thanks vanilla

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give me ideas folks pls. Or is storage block really not about blocks that can be crafted to and from resources?

stray ore
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quartz shouldn't be a storage block IMO, it's more like crafting bricks

worthy mirage
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storage blocks are basically material blocks, but they didn't want to use the word material for two different unrelated things

cobalt moon
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sounds like that should be renamed then?

worthy mirage
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ask mojang not me

cobalt moon
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no I mean the folder

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forge named the folder that when storage blocks was always seen as resource storage

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Like if I go to the mc wiki, it says this which will confuse someone as to why it is in storage blocks in forge

image.png
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so if we cant use material, what's a better alternative name?

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or since material seems to be phasing out now from code, maybe we can use material now

lapis wren
# primal quarry technically not

No but imagine I had a sort of metal called "raw iron", that came in actual ingots and whatnot. Now, is storage_blocks/raw_iron my blocks of raw iron ore, or blocks of raw iron? It's the same issue you run into with the fabric convention tags, basically

cobalt moon
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I would expect you to switch to vanillas raw iron block/items lol

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Like many mods did for copper

lapis wren
# cobalt moon Like many mods did for copper

No, I phrased that badly. I could have a completely different material that is a type of metal called "raw iron". That's a bad example - imagine that, in my (nonexistend) steel processing mod, to make steel you turn iron into "raw steel", which you later turn into "steel". Raw steel comes in ingots, like steel and iron do, not "raw ore" chunks like raw iron, but a storage block of "raw steel" would be indistinguishable from a storage block of some other mod that didn't get what steel was and decided to add "steel ore" or something

edgy folio
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reminds me of the 1.7 nether ores mod that added a nether ore for every metal in the oredict

lapis wren
cobalt moon
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I’m gonna need a flowchart for your example lol

worthy mirage
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i'm having flowchart PTSD

late atlas
worthy mirage
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that's correct

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i forgot

late atlas
west juniper
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smh. if it represents flow, and it's a chart, it's a flowchart!

late atlas
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makes a bar chart representing the average flow of water through a dam daily
flowchart! /jk

low kraken
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A line graph of flow throughout the year

regal bridge
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I don't think I've ever made a proper "flowchart" before

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I tend to just make block diagrams where one axis is time

worthy mirage
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i tend to make block diagrams where arrows represent control flow

regal bridge
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Yeah, that too

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I tend to have one axis representing time just as a covenience so I can roughly plan out timing for things

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Like obviously prior steps have to be completed first, but going with one axis as time I can stop myself from going on random tangents

glossy harness
# cobalt moon

To me it makes sense how it's now. Storage blocks contain any block that is called just like an item + _block and it can be crafted/undrafted with 9 of them. Maybe it could be that those which also have "raw" in their name get their own raw mineral block tag or something

lapis wren
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If that's what a storage block means then it should be storage_blocks/iron_ingots and whatnot

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Not storage_blocks/iron

cobalt moon
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So the resource item is the tag name

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Thus allowing storage_blocks/iron_nuggets to exist for if someone makes a block that’s 9 iron nuggets?

primal quarry
lapis wren
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But that breaks convention with ingots/iron

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And is hard to parse mechanically

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I'd say storage_block/ingots/iron. Specify what you're storing

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Not just what it's made of

uneven nova
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yeah storage_blocks/original/path makes sense

cobalt moon
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I’m not sure I can get everyone on board nested folders

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Nested folders aren’t in forge nor fabric nor vanilla

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So it would be a shock for all

primal quarry
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yea the fabric people will be strongly against multiple levels of folders

uneven nova
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Seems like a stupid thing to have strong opinions about

lapis wren
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Better that that confusion when someone has "something something crystals" and "the same something something shards" and different storage blocks for each

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Or imagine someone makes an iron dust storage block

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Where's that go?

cobalt moon
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I would like a list of all mods that actually use the storage blocks mod so I can see what they use it really for

cobalt moon
# lapis wren Or imagine someone makes an iron dust storage block

storage_blocks/iron_dust or storage_blocks/iron_dusts I guess

Basically
iron_ingot/iron_block
raw_iron_ingot/raw_iron_block

is translated to
storage_blocks/iron
storage_blocks/raw_iron

Seems like the common parts of the name for the resource and block is the path that is chosen

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So iron_dust/iron_dust_block would be
storage_blocks/iron_dust
as that’s the text that is shared

lapis wren
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That's inconsistent though as now ingots get no suffix but everything else does?

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I think the best bet, given that the goal is to build a system that will last long term, is to make the cleaner decision now and go for nested folders

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It's new, yes, but it's also the logical endpoint of existing conventions

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And then you can target storage_blocks/ingots too, which is useful

cobalt moon
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I’m doubting the usefulness of these tags now. If someone knows a block is a storage block by tag, they still have to reverse lookup the recipe to know how much the storage is (2x2 or 3x3 or more) I’m gonna need a list of mods actually using the storage block tags or if none are actually using it and are doing recipe lookup instead

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If not actually used, I rather just rename storage_blocks to materials and merge the raw_ tags into the non-raw tags so people can do materials/iron to know if a block is iron based and can make electricity conduct through it or whatever

cobalt moon
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Just to keep you all in the loop. The Fabric PR may be dead now as Fabric leader rejected all the mountain of reasoning, evidence, and points for the change and stated it was all not well reasoned. So tag unification may die due to the last comment on the Fabric PR. There is nothing I can do now as there's nothing left for me to say on the PR. You all can give a shot at trying to convince them to change their mind (do not brigade, raid, or do anything malicious). There's nothing that I can say anymore now.

edgy folio
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tinkers construct i think uses the storage block tags to get, like, "block of tin" or whatever [it assumes all metals* have 3x3 blocks]
* of the dozen or so metals that it provides its own molten versions of but not an ingot/block, it doesn't do the "magic name-based tag inference" thing

dawn nova
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this doesn't stop us from doing it tho, and maybe 3rd party libraries will adopt the common tags on fabric or community backlash in the long run will cause fapi to adopt the tags

primal quarry
vernal kernel
cobalt moon
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I’ll be surprised if one can make him change his mind but it won’t be me sadly since he ignored everything I said.

cobalt moon
primal quarry
cobalt moon
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Tomorrow, I think I'll change the namespace to c as getting fabric on board is important for this to succeed but I'll push for folder convention as that I wont back down from as the alternative is awful. c isn't used on forge/neo so it should be pretty much a clean slate. It'll just be fabric with the polluted c namespace that they have to cleanup on their own.

late atlas
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i considered saying something positive in response to this, but my mind literally supplied first "go on, king"
which is a good indicator that I should take a nap (but I can't)
anyway, on their heads be it

worthy mirage
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My opinion was originally that only common can clean up the c pollution, but in hindsight maybe crossloader can be the driving force we need.

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I'm on board.

low kraken
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well, imo, better to have fabric deal with tag pollution than have fabric not on board at all thinkies

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they want it that way so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

worthy mirage
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it seems they're (Player, casting a veto) not on board with folders either. Only one way to find out.

low kraken
glossy harness
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happy because of shared tag but sadge because of c 😔
good point tho the tag pollution will only affect fabric, unless their old tags would start leaking into cross loader mods

uneven nova
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well if player continues to veto it'll just be dead, all we could do is adopt it and see what fabric mods do

edgy folio
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is there a way to make "enforce, after tag loading, that two tags each contain all of each other's contents" [i.e. so any mod adding an item to either tag effectively adds to both, rather than one tag being a parent of the other but the other way around being out of luck]

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like is that something we could add as a datapack loading stage that runs after tags, call it 'tag synonyms'?

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or maybe before tag loading instead

cobalt moon
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Instead, having new tags use old tag as optional entry means as people switch to new tags, the remaining people reading from old tag has more incentive to switch as they get better compat with new tags

edgy folio
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but that provides no incentive for people putting their items in tags to switch

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like it's a chicken in egg thing, having the relationship one way means the other way has no incentive to switch

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we could crash in dev if someone compares something to an old convention tag

cobalt moon
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See the PR, I log into dev environment if legacy tags is detect and tell modder where to find new tags and to switch

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That’s the initial push

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Then as people switch, word of mouth or other modders checking out people will see the new tags and they make the switch afterwards

lapis wren
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Also the lack of vanilla items in the old tags will push people to switch

cobalt moon
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does anyone here have objection to singularly named folders and plural named tag files? Multiple people brought up that something like java convention for folder names is to not plural the folder

lapis wren
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The folders should still be plural, because they're often nouns while tag files are often adjectives in this system

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I still think we should follow what vanilla mostly does of plural nouns, singular adjectives

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Otherwise you'd have c:ore/iron and c:ores which seems... inconsistent

cobalt moon
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hmm good point. I'll raise that to singular folder people

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And make sure you follow tag conventions for new tags! The convention is 'c' with generally plural named folders and tag files. (Adjective folder names tend to be singular)

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That good?

lapis wren
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Yeah; though adjective single files are singular too - see iron. Basically, nouns plural, adjectives singular seems like a good rule overall

cobalt moon
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on fabric:

image.png
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@spring crane just to verify your intent with VILLAGER_JOB_SITES, job sites are the workstations right? Or is it possible people are considering crafting table a work station/bench?

image.png
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Stripped tags. : thonk :
not a bad idea but better done as pr afterwards maybe

image.png
cobalt moon
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Mushroooooooooooooooooooooooooms

image.png
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yes I am going a little insane working on these prs

late atlas
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still relatively sane, compared to mushroooms

regal bridge
cobalt moon
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Question, why does the forge stones tag contain polished andesite and stuff

image.png
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I assumed this was natural stone until i saw the polished entries. Stone Bricks and Chiseled stuff aren't in here

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forge:string... This should be strings right

image.png
late atlas
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probably

lapis wren
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string is sometimes uncountable so Maybe™️ because English

stray ore
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it's a set of kinds of string though, so surely it should be plural

lapis wren
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I dunno, would a fish tag be fish or fishes? Native speakers would probably be split...

regal bridge
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I think personally a tag is necessarily a group of items already, so singular probably works just fine

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that and items/blocks have an is-a relationship with tags, like a minecraft:cobblestone is a common:stone_block

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(I don't actually know what the tag is, but that's how I rationalise my tag names personally)

lapis wren
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You want to switch to singular everywhere? I suppose that is an option. I'm less sold on it due to vanilla using... mostly plural, and given that the tag directories themselves (blocks, items) are plural

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My point here was about uncountable nouns #1134480199937957969 message

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Because "plural" is a bit funky with those

regal bridge
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Honestly, I don't know what the best option is 😅

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I just mentioned what I do in my own mod, where I don't have to care about compatibility with other people

cobalt moon
late atlas
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a lot of fish, different kinds of fishes

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"you'll be sleeping with the fish" doesn't sound quite as catchy, after all thinkies

cobalt moon
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vanilla be like

image.png image.png
dawn nova
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what could go wrong /s

cobalt moon
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not foods

image.png
regal bridge
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"fishes" is technically plural, but it's kind of archaic

dawn nova
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the plural of food is also food

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so no way to tell whether that's plural or singular

regal bridge
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Yeah, that's partly why I went with singular everywhere because that way there's not some which are singular-ish

cobalt moon
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I am just listing the ambiguous examples from vanilla

image.png
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I think string should be strings tbh to reduce confusion

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going full singular wont be able to be accepted as that's a massive change

regal bridge
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if I'm being super honest minecraft:string (the item) should be renamed something like minecraft:spider_silk 🤣

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but yeah, that's fair reasoning

cobalt moon
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cats drop string when killed

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Spider cat?

regal bridge
late atlas
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spider cat, spider cat 🎵

lapis wren
regal bridge
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"fishes" tends to refer to multiple types of fish

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so I guess it works

cobalt moon
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forge:stone or forge:stones when collecting all kinds of natural stones

lapis wren
lapis wren
regal bridge
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"fishes" is also a singular verb

lapis wren
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Sorta "plural if in doubt" because it's different types of stuff

cobalt moon
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then cobblestone shall become cobblestones
Fixing up forge's mess

regal bridge
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yeah, that's fine by me

lapis wren
regal bridge
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common:cobbled_stones? eyeskang

lapis wren
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stabolb common:stones/cobbled /j

regal bridge
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cobbled deepslate? 😛

low kraken
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common:stones/cobbled/deep

regal bridge
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cobblestone is just a common name for a cobble-sized stone

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobble_(geology) if you're curious

Cobble (geology)

A cobble (sometimes a cobblestone) is a clast of rock defined on the Udden–Wentworth scale as having a particle size of 64–256 millimeters (2.5–10.1 in), larger than a pebble and smaller than a boulder. Other scales define a cobble's size differently. A rock made predominantly of cobbles is termed a conglomerate. Cobblestone is a building materi...

lapis wren
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Generally when I hear "cobblestone" in real life I think "stones you'd use to pave streets"

regal bridge
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yeah, each individual stone is called a cobble

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but the building material is generally known as cobblestone

cobalt moon
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but we are talking about a cubic meter of cobblestone texture slapped onto a block as a unit of measurement

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I have 5 Cobblestone

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or would it be
I have 5 Cobblestones

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we gotta talk like a player

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One of you better watch 100 hours of videos of mc players to see if they say cobblestone with an s or not lol

low kraken
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time to write an algorithm

lapis wren
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It's cobblestone if it's more than one block of the same material, but cobblestones if you're talking different types of cobblestone, which a tag is

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Same as the "correct" (albeit inconsistently used) rule for fish/fishes

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That's generally the rule for uncountable/"vaguely countable" nouns in general

regal bridge
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minecraft:cobblestone the item/block is cobblestone (i have 5 cobblestone)
common:cobblestones the tag is cobblestones

lapis wren
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For instance: this mod provides cobblestones made of granite and andesite - that would use plural. But, I built the building out of cobblestone, even if it's lots of it

edgy folio
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also something to go in the middle for 'plain' (not smooth/polished, not cobbled) stone blocks

spring crane
cobalt moon
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I spent ALL DAY doing these PRs. I pushed my newest round of changes up to both PRs. c namespace now

cobalt moon
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Actually, why do we even have the stone tag?

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vanilla has a stone tag already for natural stone

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maybe c:stones should be yeeted and people encouraged to use that tag instead

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thoughts? And maybe the neoforge:worldgen_stones should pull entries from that tag too since it patches the vanilla feature isStone check to check that neoforge tag

final panther
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If Vanilla already has a tag that fits people's needs and we're trying to unify tag usage across loaders, preferring the Vanilla tag makes the most sense to me

cobalt moon
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here's the fun part, forge has the stone as an item tag as well but vanilla does not

dawn nova
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yknow

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sometimes I wish we had automatic tag linking

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so there would be automatic item tags for that stuff

cobalt moon
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so yeet c:stones block tag and rename the item c:stones to c:base_stone_overworld?

cobalt moon
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It seems I have forgotten recipes where c:stones makes more sense

static scroll
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I don't believe I've said anything in here yet so I'm gonna drop in to give some positivity and put my full support by telepathic's work on this effort, they've put in serious work with not only the bureaucracy but also diligent research on improvements and modded use cases

edgy folio
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if not being able to be uncrafted is what keeps quartz/amethyst out of "storage blocks", should mods or datapacks that add recipes add them to it? should packs that remove the vanilla recipes remove them from the other blocks?

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like i feel like this "can you uncraft" talk opens up a can of worms. the authority on whether you can craft something is the recipe manager, not the tag manager

lapis wren
cobalt moon
edgy folio
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while i am here, we should add a tag for, informationally, blocks that give alternate loot [typically dropping themselves] when mined with shears

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fabric already does this, and forge currently uses IForgeShearable for this purpose which I believe is inappropriate since it cannot be changed by datapacks

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er, in fact, fabric has a tag [fabric:mineable/shears] which is used by jade to display shears as a tool but i have not verified whether that represents loot or speed.

cobalt moon
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That tag doesn’t exist on fabric

edgy folio
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it's part of fabric-mining-level-api not fabric-convention-tags

cobalt moon
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: thonk :

edgy folio
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and they don't appear to have datagen for including vanilla blocks to the tag? i'm confused now

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anyway it seems it's meant to represent mining speed

cobalt moon
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That might be better separate from my pr since their mining tag then is a different module

edgy folio
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but i still think the loot thing should be a tag, we clearly see some value in making it accessible without parsing through the loot table

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forget fabric precedent, this is to replace the use of IForgeShearable on block classes

cobalt moon
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Yeah different pr on Neo too since that would be yeeting an entire interface. It’s a larger discussion. Make an issue report on Neo so we don’t forget. It can be a separate pr that could get merged into 1.20.2 maybe before my pr. Or maybe delayed to 1.21 alongside my pr

edgy folio
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i'll probably write up something on reworking shearing API generally some time soon

cobalt moon
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The mineable tag might go under neoforge namespace if it is functional (assuming the interface there comes with functionality)

edgy folio
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[the current situation is a mess - the interface has completely different semantics on blocks vs entities, it's really not necessary on entities since it could be replaced with a tool action check in the vanilla code, but, vanilla has an interface [which arguably needs to be made itemstack sensitive] for dispensers to use shears on an entity [and dispensers have hardcoded block interactions]

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i think there's a bug report out there for shears mineable tag and it runs into the issue that vanilla blocks that get a speed boost from shears don't all get the same speed boost

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i guess i was overly eager to post in here since it's tangentially tag related

cobalt moon
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It’s good to bring up as I didn’t know about the mineable tag module in fabric lol. I’ll have to check to make sure I didn’t mess anything up in there

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I would expect the fabric tag to be under fabric namespace for that

edgy folio
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given the lack of datagen or resources data it's unclear if it's functional

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ah no

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they do have a shears item mixin that makes blocks with the tag mine at the same speed as wool

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i see, they didn't tag vanilla blocks because they already implement the speed boost differently, this tag exists exclusively for adding modded blocks to, and not for informational purpose to identify vanilla blocks

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they have a sword one that works the same way - doesn't add bamboo/cobweb, just lets you add modded blocks to. worth looking into at least

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and, yes, all in the fabric namespace

lapis wren
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Yeah, I feel like this PR maybe shouldn't cover functional tags in terms of modifying vanilla behavior

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Though I'd definitely be in favor of some work to standardize that later

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...though I guess maybe it could, now that I think of it. Hmm

cobalt moon
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@lapis wren Random question, do you think you can get what these 6 mods are that are using this block entity type tag? I am curious now if their use cases can be handled with the block tag without issues. If not able to find those mods with the script adjusted, that's alright

image.png
lapis wren
cobalt moon
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Yeah no rush. Probably not gonna make a move on the block entity type tags till next weekend

merry furnaceBOT
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Successfully scheduled reminder on <t:1695584087:F> (<t:1695584087:R>)!

late atlas
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@dawn nova wasn't this supposed to be ephemeral thinkies

dawn nova
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no

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also

late atlas
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ah

dawn nova
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you can use a message link to make the reminder reply

late atlas
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neat

cobalt moon
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rip

glossy harness
cobalt moon
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Thonk. Hay and dried kelp are storage blocks but aren’t in storage block tag iirc

merry furnaceBOT
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@late atlas

Camelot
Reminder

poke luke, see tags thread

sciwhiz12 ·
late atlas
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hey @lapis wren thinkies

cobalt moon
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@lapis wren reminder has poked lol

worthy mirage
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@lapis wren i want to jump on the bandwagon

regal bridge
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@lapis wren why not zoidberg?

dawn nova
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@lapis wren wake up

livid flint
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@lapis wren

The_matrix_has_you.jpg
low kraken
lapis wren
#

First is fabric/quilt, second is forge

cobalt moon
#

Thank you!

lapis wren
low kraken
#

thinkies let's read some julia

#

thonk how do you write ∈, is that just some key combination in whatever IDE you're using?

lapis wren
cobalt moon
#

You should’ve written the script in brainfuck just to mess with me lol

low kraken
lapis wren
lapis wren
spring crane
#

oh hey I have to start learning Julia for my master's thesis

lapis wren
#

Had to track down which fabric mod in a modpack had packaged a wrong pack.mcmeta file, which was causing hard to diagnose errors... that's where this originally came from

lapis wren
#

Just don't be afraid to embrace its occasional quirk. A lot of the stuff that seems weird makes perfect sense when you realize it's used

#

(Also feel free to ping me with questions on it)

spring crane
#

ok, cool! thanks ^^

cobalt moon
#

honey blocks are a 2x2 storage block but the reversing requires 5 slots

#

I love vanilla throwing wrenches everywhere

lapis wren
#

Wait why does... oh heck, bottles, right?

cobalt moon
#

yes

low kraken
#

Because you can't give the recipe a stack of 4 bottles harold

glossy harness
#

Do magma blocks count? Always found the recipe weird tbh should use netherrack too

low kraken
#

not a storage block since you can't uncraft it iirc

late atlas
#

@cobalt moon just had a thought: is there a tag for items which shouldn't be 'storable' in other storage items?
for example, it could contain (vanilla) shulker boxes, (modded) backpacks, etc., so one can't store a backpack in a shulker box, and store that in a backpack, ad infinitum
(or the same with three items: A goes in B, B goes in C, C goes in (another instance of) A, etc.)

spring crane
#

that should not be an item tag

#

empty AE2 cells should be storable in everything whereas non-empty AE2 cells should not be nested

late atlas
#

fair point, but the point behind the tag still stands
how is recursion in storage items avoided at present?

#

or hmmm

spring crane
#

there is already Item#canFitInsideContainerItems() for that purpose... I think we could add IForgeItem#canFitInsideContainerItems(ItemStack stack)

#

it is currently not avoided 😛

uneven nova
#

don't we have a packet splitter so super-nested nbt isn't an issue anymore?

spring crane
#

that's not an acceptable "fix"

barren sand
cobalt moon
#

Forge already patches shulker boxes to check that method iirc

cobalt moon
worthy mirage
#

For infinite cost

#

So it's not really an exploit

spring crane
#

it's also bad practice to have large nbt in general

#

(it can make transfer extremely slow, for example)

regal bridge
#

Infinitely nesting items also makes dupe bugs way more broken, since to my knowledge most dupe bugs require player input which puts an upper limit to the nu,ber of items that can be duplicated at once

#

but if you could dupe an AE2 cell full of AE2 cells full of AE2 cells... you get the idea

spring crane
#

I mean, duping AE2 cells is already broken even without nesting, so that doesn't really count ^^

cobalt moon
prime wharf
#

The limiting factor in MC is time

#

The time you have to collect resources

#

That is the real limiting factor

#

As such it is technically infinite

cobalt moon
#

Let’s say you have 36 slots normally. 1 storage item gets say 16 extra slots. You should only have 36x16 slots maximum. With nesting you can go beyond that to endless number of slots on yourself and can take anywhere

#

Thus eliminating any slot management as if you need more slots, just nest again

#

Y’all are too focused on “infinite” and missing the forest for the trees

#

Mc has maximum number of slots you hold on yourself. Storage items increases that but still have limit. Nesting removed the limit

#

There’s no absolute limit to nesting minus time or resources or nbt size. Thus eliminating any storage problems one would’ve been forced to have to need to do storage management

spring crane
#

yeah but it's not fun to manage nesting

#

anyway the point is, we don't need that tag 😛

#

we all agree on that

cobalt moon
#

Exactly cause the code is there and people should be using that code

#

People that don’t check it is a bug in that mod

regal bridge
uneven nova
#

I have been alerted we have 3 hoes tags thinkies

#

simultaneously minecraft:hoes, forge:tools/hoes, and forge:hoes

edgy folio
#

what does vanilla use the tag for

late atlas
#

why does forge:hoes exist

cobalt moon
#

I don’t see forge:hoes

#

Unless in my pr by mistake. The tools folder one should stay for categorization without attaching vanilla behavior

uneven nova
cobalt moon
#

Hopefully they will fix it when they get the log warning about legacy tags in 1.21

late atlas
#

i wonder how helpful my /forge tags has been thinkies

uneven nova
#

looks to be coming from silent gear

static scroll
#

you are lucky to only find 3 hoes tags

#

I've seen minecraft:axes, forge:axes, forge:tools/axes forge:tools/axe, c:axes, c:axe, c:tools/axes, and fabric:axes

crisp lake
#

you have an axe to grind or something? :3

static scroll
#

I deal with tags a lot, translation and ui and all that, and I have learned that they are somehow in an even worse state than you could imagine

#

who is using forge:tools/axes on fabric

lapis wren
#

Anyone with a multiloader mod, probably

#

In mine at least I provide stuff in both forge and c tags on both platforms because of how the system I have to provide them works

#

...heck, I provide them in forge, c, and c-with-subfolders format on both platforms

#

I only use the platform specific tag for stuff luckily

static scroll
#

at least EMI has heuristics to pick the more applicable platform specific duplicate...

#

that's be a nice bit simpler once this is a reality

edgy folio
coral valve
edgy folio
#

i thought about making an area code joke when i saw the original post

cobalt moon
#

Since I am removing amethyst and quartz from storage blocks, is this an ideal replacement for them?

tag(MATERIALS_AMETHYST).add(Blocks.AMETHYST_BLOCK);
tag(MATERIALS_QUARTZ).add(Blocks.QUARTZ_BLOCK, Blocks.QUARTZ_BRICKS, Blocks.QUARTZ_PILLAR, Blocks.QUARTZ_SLAB, Blocks.QUARTZ_STAIRS, Blocks.SMOOTH_QUARTZ, Blocks.SMOOTH_QUARTZ_SLAB, Blocks.SMOOTH_QUARTZ_STAIRS, Blocks.CHISELED_QUARTZ_BLOCK);
#

mojang removed materials class from code (replaced with MapColor) so the name is now free for use without any confusion with code

spring crane
#

I'm not sure they should be removed from storage blocks

cobalt moon
#

They cant be used to store amethyst and quartz resources because they cannot be crafted back to the resource

#

They are at significant odds compared to all the other storage block entries. (they are also the only 2x2 crafts while rest are 3x3 crafts)

spring crane
#

I think I added inverse recipes for these in MI but I am not sure thonk

cobalt moon
#

That's the problem I have with keeping them in. It breaks the consistency with the tags

spring crane
#

for me a storage block would be the "canonical" block of the material

cobalt moon
cobalt moon
spring crane
#

I suppose that also works

#

are you adding everything else to materials too? (iron, copper, etc)

#

cause that might get out of hand at some point

cobalt moon
#

Yeah just the main ones. I won't do wood and all that. just copy whats in storage blocks into materials (while leavin rest of storage blocks tag as is). If people want stuff beyond the metal/ore materials, they can ask for it in a new pr and justify it but as a base start, should be good.

spring crane
#

I think you could leave it out entirely

cobalt moon
#

Just keep amethyst and quartz in meterial and keep out the rest for now?

spring crane
#

I mean no material at all

cobalt moon
#

So delete the amethyst and quartz from storage blocks with no replacement?

spring crane
#

yeah

cobalt moon
#

hmmm. would be easier to justify that than new materials. I'll do that then.

cobalt moon
#

Anyone strong for or against spears or trident_like? Just want to hear a few more opinions on this name before i go with one

image.png
primal quarry
#

I'm for throwable

low kraken
#

it's not meant for that tho

cobalt moon
#

^

#

that's toolactions

low kraken
#

Is that tag specifically for throwable spear like weapons or just spear like in general?

cobalt moon
cobalt moon
low kraken
#

you could name it polearms, which would include stuff like halberds as well

cobalt moon
#

or close enough. Spears and tridents under one tag like how all swords like daggers would be under swords

primal quarry
low kraken
cobalt moon
#

stabby sticks probably should be its own tag made by the mod

#

For reference, fabric choose spears for their tag name

primal quarry
#

I'd say throwable_polearms

#

since it is exactly what the doc comment says

low kraken
#

I'd guess that's the best option

#

Although imo, throwing should just be a tool action and let the tag include non-throwing polearms as well, but ¯_(ツ)_/¯

cobalt moon
#

I don't think fabric has Tool action equivalent iirc

#

I think this would be unique to fabric right? thus wouldn't these tags be better under fabric namespace?

image.png
#

or would neo also be interested?

#

but on neo, this could blur the lines of what people should be using since neo pushes for ToolActions in code

spring crane
#

Why do we have tool tags again?

cobalt moon
#

vanilla has tool tags but not for all tools. it also helps datapacker and modpack makers be able to grab all kinds of one tool for recipes or loot table spawning.

#

Basically in neo, tool tags are for classifying stuff based on what it is. Not on its action.

In Fabric, I don't think they have a ToolActions equivalent so people there might be relying on the item to extend certain classes? But having the tags for classification would still help for non-action based stuff.

#

That being said, yeah I don't see need for mining tools, weapon tools tags that much but will need people to say they dont want that on the PR as I can't be the only one pushing back lol

cobalt moon
#

Just looked up who of the top Forge mods on modrinth are using block_entity_type/relocation_not_supported or block_entity_type/immovable and they are Mekanism, Immersive Engineering, and Lightman's Currency.

Mekanism:
https://github.com/mekanism/Mekanism/blob/1.20.x/src/datagen/generated/mekanism/data/forge/tags/block_entity_type/relocation_not_supported.json
https://github.com/mekanism/Mekanism/blob/1.20.x/src/datagen/generated/mekanism/data/forge/tags/block_entity_type/immovable.json

Mekanism Generators:
https://github.com/mekanism/Mekanism/blob/1.20.x/src/datagen/generated/mekanismgenerators/data/forge/tags/block_entity_type/relocation_not_supported.json
https://github.com/mekanism/Mekanism/blob/1.20.x/src/datagen/generated/mekanismgenerators/data/forge/tags/block_entity_type/immovable.json

Immersive Engineering:
https://github.com/BluSunrize/ImmersiveEngineering/blob/1.19.2/src/generated/resources/data/forge/tags/block_entity_type/relocation_not_supported.json
https://github.com/BluSunrize/ImmersiveEngineering/blob/1.19.2/src/generated/resources/data/forge/tags/block_entity_type/immovable.json

Lightman's Currency: https://github.com/Lightman314/LightmansCurrency/blob/e282e2d52ce321b184d4d6e6fe50e25648a45cdc/src/main/java/io/github/lightman314/lightmanscurrency/datagen/common/tags/LCBlockTagProvider.java#L132

#

Just to bring the conversations to here,

@swift hamlet @dusty sentinel no rush on this info yet but is there anything of value that would be lost if we encourage people to use the block tag c:relocation_not_supported instead of the block entity type tags? Is there any blocks where they truly cannot be supported properly with just the block tag alone? (Looking into seeing if this can be simplified for mods checking the tags as otherwise, they have to check both block and block entity tag every time)

@gritty furnace I think you had a stake you wanted in on this too.

(I'll track down and contact lightman as they don't seem to be here)

dusty sentinel
#

For IEs uses block tags should work just fine

gritty furnace
#

CM 5.1 and below currently has the bound and unbound machine blocks using the same block entity and block ID, but that's in 1.19.2. If this change goes in v5.2+ is already splitting that out properly, so I'd be fine with just having the block tags

cobalt moon
#

Yeah the soonest this would even be a thing is 1.21 so lots of time until then

swift hamlet
#

uhh

#

no idea looking at my uses there aren't actually any so I can't remember

#

#104299991589199872 message feel free to look through this telepathic to see if you can see why. Giga links some of the discussions and I link some of them (for some of the earliest discussions about the tag). Maybe one of us mentions why somewhere in that discussion. It is also possible that the reason there was both and I have memory of them being added at different times is that maybe we had the block entity type one first and then added the block one later.

Most likely doesn't have much of use in it but if it does feel free to summarize any of the things I mentioned in it (giga probably would be fine with you summarizing parts of his talking points as well, though as always with FC probably should ask first, but might be unnecessary as there may not even be a reason to summarize)

cobalt moon
#

Sounds like Mek should be alright with block tag then.

I don't see any mentions of the block entity type tag in the discussions linked and well, just mainly one person saying how it shouldn't be a tag because users should not be able to edit it which is a dumb stance. Sorry but I strongly disagree lol. Pack Makers should absolutely have access to the tag so they can add more blocks that shouldn't be movable if there's issues happening. Or remove blocks from the tag if it was only added for balance reasons and the pack maker is changing balance. It's up to the pack maker to test afterwards and make sure it is all good but giving them more power is good.

#

Sorry went on a tangent

edgy folio
#

also there are lots of tags in vanilla that will cause serious problems if users edit them the wrong way

#

if you have a block without the requisite block state properties in the vanilla stairs tag you'll get crashes in a structure processor (i found that out when i messed up the tag file so the tag had air in it)

cobalt moon
#

Ah BlockAgeProcessor

cobalt moon
#

Should I keep the BlockEntityTypes class and ForgeBlockEntityTypeTagsProvider if there's no more tags in those classes? Or just yeet the whole thing?

Edit: Nvm. I'll just remove the class. Can be added back if someone adds a new block entity type tag

cobalt moon
#

ok I think things are in a good state right now with tag PRs. Just need people to verify that the names of the new storage block tags are good. Then I'll port the storage block tags over to the fabric PR to sync it (will be done in a future weekend)

cobalt moon
#

Hmm the Gemwire wiki should mention the custom ingredient types that forge exposes and how to datagen them. The more modders that knows about these ingredient types, the ebtter modders can utilize tags in recipes
https://forge.gemwire.uk/wiki/Recipes

Recipes

With the update to Minecraft 1.12, Mojang introduced a new data-driven recipe system based on JSON files. Since then, it has been adopted by Forge as well and was expanded in Minecraft 1.13 into datapacks.

worthy mirage
cobalt moon
#

what's the best way to let people know of a class to check out for examples if link to that class is inaccessible?

#

Hmm (ignore I had javadoc on wrong tag)

image.png
static scroll
#

just a note if it wasn't mentioned before, the modrinth ftb replacement mods use EMI's tag translation spec

#

so it's not just EMI and AE2, it's Heracles too at least

cobalt moon
#

Last call for any feedback with the 4 new storage block tag names I added (bone, dried kelp, hay, and slime) before I attempt to add it to the Fabric PR's side to sync up both sides. Are those names good for the 4 tags or nah? (Went more with the name of the block than item for stuff like hay bale and bone block)

image.png
primal quarry
#

bone is kind of wrong since bone blocks are actually bonemeal blocks

cobalt moon
#

the block itself is Bone Block. The resource is Bonemeal. I assumed the tag were based on block name. not item name

#

if item name based, then I'll change bone to bonemeal and hay to wheat

lapis wren
#

Id say probably using bonemeal and wheat is better

#

Hay stores wheat after all. It doesn't store hay

stray ore
#

yeah, I agree it should be storage blocks of the resource

cobalt moon
#

Done. If no other issues, I'll sync storage blocks to Fabric side tomorrow

image.png
lapis wren
#

Looks good to me!

#

Thank you for putting in the work to put this whole PR together!

round mantle
#

The id is bone_meal not bonemeal

cobalt moon
#

fixed

cobalt moon
#

It's the weekend which means tag work if there's any. Anyone got any lasting concerns with the tag pr?

cobalt moon
#

Note to self, might need to bonk everyone doing tools/wrench instead of tools/wrenches

IMG_0500.png
#

Maybe I’ll just add it to Neo so they see proper tag in Tags

cobalt moon
lapis wren
#

That's a good migration warning to have!

bold hull
#

why were the opt in prod options removed for the warnings?

cobalt moon
#

it's still in neo pr

image.png
#

fabric prod was removed as fabric wanted to move it out of configs and into vm args for them so i removed prod option for them since it seems they are more dev focused for their warnings

primal quarry
#

@cobalt moon the target for this on neo is now right?

cobalt moon
#

Tag migration is 1.21

#

Not 1.20.2

#

Not 1.20.3

#

Even fabric needs time as well

primal quarry
#

hmm then we have indeed a problem in #project-talk

cobalt moon
#

If Neo merges now, that forces fabric to have to merge now which is bad and will piss the f out of fabric ecosystem

#

Keep forge namespace tags for now. Hard cutover in 1.21

cobalt moon
#

@west juniper tags need to be done by both loaders together at same time. Things can still change and suggestions can come in. Merge now without consensus and leader approval from other loader is a jerk move

cobalt moon
#

Is c:tools/brushes item tag and c:heads block/item tag something y'all are interested in?

lapis wren
#

I can think of uses for both

west juniper
#

I don't have a use case myself

lapis wren
#

heads would be useful for any mods that want to, say, have mob heads nearby affect the power of some magic ritual or something

#

Brushes could be useful for the same reasons as any other tool tag - mod A adds a new brush type, mod B adds behavior that should do something with a brush, like a machine that auto-brushes or something, I don't know

regal bridge
#

I think c:skulls might be a better name, since I was a little confused as to what it meant at first

low kraken
#

well, most "heads" are heads not skulls thinkies

regal bridge
#

As for brushes, I don't think vanilla has any by default so I don't think it should be added, but it should definitely be something we encourage people to use if they have their own

regal bridge
#

Like, the head of a pressure vessel, or the head of a plant

low kraken
#

ah thinkies

cobalt moon
#

it's for their suspicious sand and gravel

#

well, 1 brush

regal bridge
#

ah, i forgot about that

#

(spent too much time modding rather than playing the game... 😅)

cobalt moon
#

but mods will make their own cause the logic is in the item and the vanilla one is slow as heck

#

I'm not sure skull makes sense as only 2 of these are visually skulls

image.png
#

the rest are heads and their tooltip says so

image.png
worthy mirage
#

Heads are just skulls with some skin

#

Like, literally

#

That's what they are in the code :p

cobalt moon
#

user facing, the word head outnumbers the word skull in 5 to 2 ratio. Therefore democracy wins!

#

are we gonna need to poll this

swift hamlet
#

do we need a tag to just reference all heads minus player heads? Or are difference ingredients good enough for that

cobalt moon
#

why no player head?

#

just wondering

swift hamlet
#

idk there are various cases in mods where I have seen recipes that explicitly want a mob head

#

such as for an automated spawner recipe or something

#

I forget the exact examples

cobalt moon
#

there is the custom holderset that might be able to handle that use case

swift hamlet
#

well also just a difference ingredient

cobalt moon
#

yeah. The tag acts as default collection and modder/packmakers tailors it for their use case.

#

hopefully javadoc in tags now (for the dyable stuff) leads to more people finding out about custom ingredients

soft night
#

POGGIES Head tag?

cobalt moon
#

Summary I am posting back to Fabric to see what they prefer. Here's the suggestions:

  1. c:heads or
  2. c:skulls or
  3. c:mob_heads (exclude player head)

Heads pro:

  • Tooltip and registry name of 5 out of 7 of these blocks mentions "Head" instead of "Skull" for user-facing text.
  • Head might be more intuitive to be heads of entities.

Skulls pro:

  • Code mentions skulls as inheritance for the blocks
  • Heads are just skin covered skulls (was partially a joke someone said)

Mob Head pro:

  • Excludes player head in case people's use case doesn't want it. User that do want it can add a check/recipe specific to player head
cobalt moon
soft night
#

I honestly don't care which 😛 I'll update Heads to use whatever

#

Currently I have them under forge:heads but skulls is fine too

wall_of_heads.png
low kraken
west juniper
soft night
#

👍

stray ore
low kraken
#

well, it was edited stabolb

stray ore
#

I fixed the order, hope you're happy

cobalt moon
west juniper
#

👌

stray ore
low kraken
west juniper
#

that would work, I suppose

#

as I said earlier, I don't personally have a use case for this

cobalt moon
glad socket
cobalt moon
#

tbh, I only see usecases for mainly 1 tag

glad socket
#

i.e. if it's a niche requirement then I'd just go with the heads tag

cobalt moon
#

i dont think people need it anything more specific. It is possible people may want more specific but aren't making the tag because it needs to be made and used first before people use the more specific tags

#

multiple ways to view this

west juniper
#

I don't see the point of having the player head in its own tag, so I feel that having non-player mob heads is general enough and anyone who needs both can very easily combine mob heads + the player head
(I'm assuming here no one is adding more items for player heads, cos I have no idea why anyone would be doing that)

cobalt moon
#

Looks like vote for c:heads won on both loaders. I'll add that to PR now.

I'll give you all heads. Wait...

west juniper
stray ore
edgy folio
#

head registry for what entity type's head it is

barren sand
#

How about a raw_meats item tag for food?

cobalt moon
#

does not seem super highly used (typo. meant to say not very used)

#

most of these are likely just like 1 or 2 mods trying different names

cobalt moon
olive mango
#

I am guessing their mod Biomancy

#

which is very meaty

bold hull
#

Will there be a repo created for this to keep track of these and request new ones to be merged into the modloaders?

cobalt moon
#

for now, my pr encourages modloaders to simplay ask "did you make pr to other loader and what is the link to it" for future tags after my PR

#

shared repo stuff doesnt exist now and would have to be created separately. Perhaps a post-mvp.

#

there's a lot more that goes into a share repo than you would think

lapis wren
#

You've got to get both groups on board with accepting the shared repo as authoritative, and that's not easy

barren sand
cobalt moon
#

only ones I could see use is
c:raw_fish
c:raw_meat
c:cooked_fish
c:cooked_meat

and this has to be ran by fabric as well. And rotten flesh has to be known that it doesnt go into raw meats

#

someone might argue for
c:meat/raw and c:meat/cooked

edgy folio
#

some mods also add 'jerky' items (including of rotten flesh)

#

and i can see it both ways on rotten flesh and also on e.g. pufferfish, tropical fish [the latter isn't even food], and of course food being meat is a method on the food info object

#

[i'm restarting my environment so i can't check if rotten flesh or spider eyes are meat]

#

ah, rotten flesh is meat, spider eye is not, and no kind of fish is meat [and i'm wrong about tropical fish not being food]

cobalt moon
#

You can eat pufferfish too. But not cook it iirc

alpine lagoon
#

I mean I could also argue for a food/raw_fish, etc too

#

Given how many subcategories there are

cobalt moon
#

food folder implies c:foods which likely won't be accepted as checking if an item is food should be done through code

#

So seeing what people think about these tags or if none at all. There is a bit of variation of these tags in existence here. Poll seems better to determine tags. Posted in fabricord too

hazy stump
#

flaminking wouldn't it make sense to have it c:food/(raw_)meat/c:food/(raw_)fish?

lapis wren
#

Oh wait just noticed that option

#

I missed that - ignore me

spring crane
#

shouldn't it be singular either way

#

also food not foods

lapis wren
#

"fishes" is generally accepted as the correct plural when you're talking about many types of fish

#

...I say that, but it's english, so... screm yeet any hope for consistency or even generally accepted usage

dawn nova
#

look, unfortunately for you, americans have no right to talk about which plural version is correct /hj

primal quarry
#

Google says:

Fish and fishes are both acceptable plural forms of fish. Fish is the more commonly used plural, and can be used regardless of how many species are present. Fishes tends to be used as a plural when there are more than one species, especially in scientific settings.
so since with tags we are talking species its fishes

#

(at least it would for an entity tag)

lapis wren
#

For the entity tag, and I'd go for the item tag too because we're talking about, like, cod and salmon fish items, which are different fishes

#

English sucks

hazy stump
#

would that not also go for meats then?

#

since there are different kinds of meat? flaminking

cobalt moon
#

This is item tags. Entity type tag would be separate for fish if people do want fish tag

lapis wren
cobalt moon
west juniper
#

IMO, plural if it's countable, singular if it's not. "marble" (the material) is uncountable so singular, but "shovels" is countable so plural

#

meat and fish as the food matter, isn't countable, but fish as the animal is

lapis wren
#

salmon, cod, pufferfish, tropical fish - I can count them off

west juniper
#

yes that's why I made the distinction

lapis wren
#

That's true of item tags too

west juniper
#

fishes is valid, each item is one fish

#

but meats isn't

lapis wren
#

They're types of fish items

lapis wren
west juniper
#

that's not what I mean

#

you don't have stones and marbles and obsidians

#

so "things that qualify as meat" is equally uncountable

#

(sorry was getting on the bus)
but the same isn't true for fish. while you can see fish as an amorphous subcategory of "edible flesh", fish is equally easy (if not easier) to see as discrete units. you have fish for dinner, but you also have one fish

lapis wren
hazy stump
lapis wren
#

That's how english works - if you're talking about different types of stone, it's stones

#

If you're talking about different types of marble, it's marbles

hazy stump
#

Edibility is one part. Recipes are another

west juniper
hazy wind
#

stones, obsidians, etc sounds strange

cobalt moon
hazy wind
#

that would be bad

cobalt moon
#

c:beds/long c:beds/wide

hazy stump
#

cursed

cobalt moon
#

If you want to go more specific, that’s more unique to your mod and you’ll just need to talk to other modders to come up with what tag to standardize for the cookies

hazy stump
#

yea, mb flaminking I was thinking a bit outside the box. But you're right TG

hazy wind
cobalt moon
#

Many of one kind of cobblestone would be cobblestone

primal quarry
cobalt moon
#

But many different types is cobblestones

lapis wren
hazy wind
#

it would be a few thousand tags for beds, but it could work

#

4 dimensional beds could be a issue

cobalt moon
#

It would make sense to do fishes and meats in same style of cobblestones but it’s also important to pick names people will remember to use easily so fish and meat seems to be winning as a result

hazy wind
cobalt moon
#

Except the fact Mojang does plural and tag convention is generally plural

#

You only write the tag once

#

So letter count is not an argument

hazy wind
#

what if we infiltrate mojang and make them change it to singular?

cobalt moon
#

You can try and if succeed. Then tag pr will switch to singular

barren sand
#

Didn't know the raw meat suggestion would cause so much talk. lol

Thinking this other it might be better to have food specific tags be part of a "common community tags" repository independent from modloaders and would serve as a reference for devs 🤔

cobalt moon
#

But convention right now is folder and plural

hazy wind
cobalt moon
#

Only meat and fish doesn’t make sense to do folder as they only come in raw and cooked. No other kinds

west juniper
cobalt moon
#

Also ctrl+c ctrl+v

hazy wind
#

with search by tag i meant a player using a search function(e.g. their recipe viewers search funftion) to search by tag

cobalt moon
#

That makes the argument weaker

#

You’re searching just press two extra keys?

#

That’s what? A fraction of a second?

#

Anyway, the main argument is more about how the tags sound and feel for fishes vs fish

hazy wind
#

fish definitely sounds better

#

also google says that fish is a plural of fish

#

so for fish it doesn't matter if singular or plural is chosen, it can be written the same in both cases

hazy stump
#

fish and fishes are both fine in this context imo, i'm more struggling with meat and meats flaminking

#

and are those the only 2 food related tags that will be implemented in the c tags?

cobalt moon
#

Likely unless there’s desire and usage for more

hazy stump
#

hmmmm I see

edgy folio
west juniper
#

stones/cobbled

lapis wren
coral valve
#

are fishes a subset of meats

hazy wind
#

c:energy/quarks/atoms/objects/stones/cobbled

west juniper
#

depends on the definition

glad socket
#

And context

hazy wind
#

in modded minecraft you may have a magic fish made from crystals, it wouldn't be meat, but it would be a fish

west juniper
# hazy wind `c:energy/quarks/atoms/objects/stones/cobbled`

this reminds me: a long time ago, long before mojang added tags, I had this idea of a hierarchical classification system.
every object would be somewhere in the hierarchy, potentially in more than one place.
example:
sugar would be items/organic/edible or some such, but also items/powdered
the idea was that some recipes could be made dynamic by allowing substitutions of the wrong category.
example: a cake is Milk, Sugar, Egg, Wheat.
Now suppose instead of sugar, you choose to substitute for another powder... like say, gunpowder. instead of egg, you use another "round" item... a fire charge, and instead of wheat, you use another "grain" item, like sand....
now that recipe would be allowed to still give a result, and craft a fragmentation grenade.

#

(it was inspired by the crafting system in Atelier Iris)

cobalt moon
#

Shooting for usability here

coral valve
#

what are we defining as the difference between fish meat and the other meats

cobalt moon
#

Fish is fish

edgy folio
#

fish generally do not have the .meat() property set on their food properties, and therefore cannot be fed to dogs

cobalt moon
coral valve
west juniper
#

is that still a property?

#

I would have assumed it would be a tag by now

edgy folio
#

could be worse, most of the animal food behavior [including cats, which is exclusively raw cod and salmon, not all fish] is still hardcoded lists

alpine lagoon
#

is it unforeseeable that a recipe might accept any food item?
Or that literally any other data-driven content might accept any food item?

edgy folio
#

that is a valid point - we have tool tags [though i think so does vanilla now] instead of making people check tool actions for recipes

prime wharf
#

So for example if you have a "Tool" with dynamic upgrades

#

That means that one stack of that item could be a pickaxe

#

One stack a shovel

#

And one stack both

cobalt moon
#

c:raw_fish styled tags won last poll but poll did not have a foods folder tag option. For completeness and fairness, the winner of last poll is now pitted against food folder options. Lmk which you prefer by voting. On weekend, winner will be put into tag PR.

https://strawpoll.com/NoZr3lLrGy3

StrawPoll
For fish and meats and potentially other food... - Online Poll - St...

What's your opinion? Vote now: c:raw_meat c:cooked_meat c:raw_fish c:cooked_fish (No c:foods), c:foods c:foods\raw_meat c:foods\cooked_meat c:foods\raw_fish `c:foo...

edgy folio
#

does the existence of the c:food[s] tags also imply c:foods/bread, stew, vegetables, fruits?

#

maybe a 'starch' consisting of bread and potato

cobalt moon
#

I don’t want to go overboard with food categories. Maybe just a few like fruits, vegetables, and berries and then wait for people to ask for new categories that they will actually use rather than trying to guess what people would use. Since foods can have a shitton of categories

floral skiff
#

fruit and berries are not mutually exclusive for example

#

but having meat and fish be provided by default sounds reasonable

cobalt moon
#

There can be an argument made for separating fruits and berries so people could have recipes for any berries being different from recipes that accept any fruits like peaches and pears. And if they want either. They can use both tags.

I do have a use case myself for needing berry food tag but not fruits like apples and stuff

alpine lagoon
#

I'm confused as to why we aren't doing what neoforge originally said was going to happen, and pinging people who are potentially relevant to the topic

#

like vectorwing for farmer's delight should have a potentially useful opinion on this, no?

primal quarry
#

are there any other specific people that we want the opinion of?

#

@copper aurora we have a few food tag related questions for you

copper aurora
#

i have been summoned

#

what's up

#

oh, common food-related tags. right

primal quarry
#

yup

copper aurora
#

for FD, at first, I borrowed most of my definitions from Harvestcraft and Simple Farming, as they were the two largest food mods at the time

#

haven't bothered to reunite other modders for potential revisions, as users were mostly making their own integrations when needed

#

for the basics, i have (off the top of my head):

  • crops/<type>
  • raw_<meat>
  • cooked_<meat>
#

main reason i even added such tags was due to meat portions. but some, like fishes, allow for more generic groupings

#

i'd say the crops/ ones are the most important at first, if there's interest. other common ones are eggs and mushrooms, which I didn't add, but often see modded variants

#

not all of this is worth canonizing in a mod loader, IMO. i'd put focus primarily on broad concepts which many mods are likely to introduce

#

salad_ingredients, for example, is extraordinarily vague and hard to use

edgy folio
#

ok, i'm skeptical of "crops" as a tag, particularly for items rather than blocks. It also seems to imply that they are directly plantable [like carrots or potatoes] rather than having seeds.

#

AIUI in farmer's delight the crops do have seeds but are also directly plantable, but there's also things like the cut cabbage leafs that can be used interchangeably with the cabbage item in most recipes

cobalt moon
#

Just ping people here if you know who would be interested like vector and all

copper aurora
#

not sure if things in crops should be considered a plantable. for the sake of this, a plantable tag would work alright; TCon makes use of that i believe

#

since seeds doesn't incorporate things which are self-planted

edgy folio
#

AIUI the farmer's delight salad_ingredients tag is intended for leafy vegetables specifically [i.e. cabbage from FD itself, and maybe things like spinach or lettuce from other mods] rather than just "anything you would put in a salad", maybe it'd be clearer if we called the tag leafy_vegetables

copper aurora
#

i use crops specifically as items in crafting

cobalt moon
#

I don’t like crops as that’s better for blocks. Item wise, people may want more division down to berries only, fruits only, vegetable only, etc. and also, do you consider an apple a crop? Glow berry? Sweet Berry?

copper aurora
#

i believe you can make a FD hamburger with broccoli in it >_>

cobalt moon
#

Heck, wheat seeds can be obtained from grass and that’s not a crop

edgy folio
#

I'm generally unimpressed with HC's tag usage.

copper aurora
#

me too. i wish we revisited it across mods, but i didn't want to organize that conversation x)

cobalt moon
#

But right now, main focus was on meat and fish food. The other foods will take time to nail down after meat and fish is added and it doesn’t have to be following subpar tags that mods are using now if we can define more useful categories

edgy folio
#

My understanding is that the use of 'salad' to refer to vegetables that you might put on a sandwich is primarily British, whereas to an American, 'salad' refers to something in a bowl

cobalt moon
#

That’s what I think of for salad

edgy folio
#

regardless, vanilla doesn't have any green vegetables

copper aurora
#

yup. i added cabbage for that reason - MC has none

#

just grains and roots

edgy folio
#

so it's not like neoforge can lead by example here

copper aurora
#

does a tag require at least an item to exist in registry?

cobalt moon
#

No but having example in it helps people know what to put into it

edgy folio
#

I don't think it's useful for neoforge to ship empty tags in a datapack. it might be worthwhile to have a community tag convention document online

copper aurora
cobalt moon
#

Only empty tags added are for the relocation not supported block tag and cannot be captured entity tag as those cases are widely used a ton and needed to be standardized

edgy folio
#

arguably specific tags for other foods are useful for the same reason

cobalt moon
copper aurora
#

no

cobalt moon
edgy folio
#

farmer's delight itself doesn't do sliced versions of most vanilla veggies, but there's a sandwich addon that does

cobalt moon
#

That’s what I am trying to add this weekend. Weekend after I’ll try for other food stuff

copper aurora
#

yeah. that's because farming has a much more dramatic ratio than meat items

#

i wanted to have some slices for things, but there's zero reason when you get such huge harvests of carrots/potatoes

#

meat portioning was primarily aimed at discouraging massive entity cramming. as well as extracting bone from some meats

cobalt moon
#

Also remember, modloaders should add both useful but also general tags. Hyperspecific tags may be better left to mods to work out between them

edgy folio
#

speaking of sliced meat

#

what's the fishing mod that has a bunch of fish that can't be eaten directly but all slice into various quantities of the same generic fish fillet item

#

aquaculture?

copper aurora
#

yeah

cobalt moon
#

Fillet tag would be better shipped by aquaculture themselves for example

edgy folio
#

I'm more thinking how does their not-directly-edible fish fit into the tag system

#

their fish fillets and farmer's delight's both fit reasonably well into the raw_fish and cooked_fish tags

#

should their unprepared fish be included in raw_fish

cobalt moon
#

It wouldn’t be in food then. aquaculture:inedible_fish

edgy folio
#

i guess ultimately it's up to them

copper aurora
#

they can choose whether their full fishes belong in it. i personally add full vanilla fish in those for cooking

#

as majorly, meat portioning is optional: you can choose to 2x your meat, to double the amount of meals you can make

cobalt moon
#

Vanilla fish are edible and would go in c:food/raw_fish

edgy folio
#

anyway, tags for specific types of food are useful in the sense that, even if no-one's going to be adding their own carrots or potatoes, it provides an example for the fact that they should use tags for non-vanilla food items

#

for the same reason we have an iron ingot tag

copper aurora
#

in a way, i find it to be a somewhat irrelevant parent for what the definition means

#

in another, it's a reasonable category

#

i suppose having a foods parent would let a mod target it for categorizing all kinds of foods

#

like MineColonies chefs do atm, using the creative tab

cobalt moon
#

Query all tags under food and dynamically create recipes from what tags exist

edgy folio
#

What the tag is for obviously isn't whether you can eat it, since that's determined based on the food properties in code - it's whether you can use it as an ingredient in recipes for more complex foods

#

however, while both "ingredient" and "recipe" are food-coded in real life, they are not in a minecraft context

#

so we can't use c:ingredients 😛

late atlas
cobalt moon
#

That is true this is for ingredients stuff

#

Or for feeding mobs

edgy folio
#

speaking of ingredients

cobalt moon
#

Can query this to make mobs be fed cooked meat only

edgy folio
#

cookies and cakes require wheat. a number of mods add a 'flour' ingredient [some mods also add other grains, like barley]

copper aurora
#

i use a grain parent tag for some things

#

wheat, rye, barley, oat, flours etc

edgy folio
#

as it is, if mods want their flour to be usable to make vanilla cake/cookies, they have to add their own recipes [and some mods want to add their own chocolate, or their own eggs, or their own milk]

copper aurora
#

but i do have a distinct dough one i share with Create

edgy folio
#

there's also

#

i know i have criticized HC's tag usage, but one that I do see some legitimacy in is some concept of "ingredients that can be substituted for eggs in baking" - and it needs to be separate from a general 'eggs' tag because most of these cannot be used to e.g. make a bacon and egg sandwich

#

idk, maybe that's beyond the scope of anything we should do, but it does illustrate just how deep the food tag rabbit hole goes

copper aurora
#

that kinda falls into mod-specific, i feel

#

i can't think of many cases for an egg-like-substitute for FD, for example

#

when i use eggs, i largely expect eggs

#

i do, however, distinguish raw and cooked eggs, as i add a Fried Egg, and some mods add their own too

#

yes, it's a rabbit hole. I strongly suggest sticking to the most generic and bottom layer of definitions here

static scroll
#

c:cooking_ingredients/baking/egg_like_binders c:cooking_ingredients/cooking/egg_like_fat_sources

#

ez

copper aurora
#

the biggest utility of canonizing a standard here is to let mods unite their various similar base ingredients: fruits, vegetables, grains, roots, mushrooms, meats, eggs etc

#

foods/<produce_name> could be a simple-to-follow definition for basic crops, like wheat or cabbage. i like it

#

and i agree it should be clear the purpose of these is to define ingredients, and not any other mechanic (like planting)

cobalt moon
#

I’ll post a message next week on Neo and fabric discord about ideas for broad food category tags to add and ask people to reach out to bring in food modders and stuff to see my message. And then feed back can be given in GitHub if someone later comes in.

#

Hard part will be to rope in suggestions from being too niche or specific or deep

#

Not everyone’s use case will get covered but that’s what mod specific tags are for and communication between modders

#

Question, isn’t harvestcraft dev inactive now? Edit: guess not. Still active. Updated in September and last active 5 days ago on cf

cobalt moon
#

How much time do we have till 1.21?

spring crane
#

Chances are it will be for june? At least that's what I was thinking

primal quarry
lapis wren
cobalt moon
#

should there be a c:peaceful tag for biomes that have no monsters like mushroom biomes? People are currently excluding mushroom biomes manually but wont see modded peaceful biomes. or c:monsterless

hazy stump
#

what would be the usecase? flaminking

cobalt moon
#

not adding monsters to those biomes

hazy stump
#

could be interesting

craggy bronze
#

c:peaceful sounds wrong as the deep dark also doesn't have monsters spawning in them

hazy stump
#

c:monsterless would be a better fitting name imo

low kraken
#

c:no_monsters_here squirrelhat

craggy bronze
#

c:monsterless also has this problem, as monsters can be there, just not spawn them in the regular way. maybe c:no_monster_spawns?

cobalt moon
hazy stump
cobalt moon
regal bridge
#

I'd be fine with no_monster_spawns, but it'd need to be communicated that it's an indication of intent, and that mods can easily disobey or ignore it

#

(The first thing that came to mind was "what would happen if a mod made a zombie specifically for mushroom island biomes?")

primal quarry
#

c:no_default_monsters

#

seems more correct

lapis wren
# cobalt moon

I like this. It's accurate, and it describes both the intent and the result

cobalt moon
#

Alright food tag and the meat/fish tags added now to PR

#

Now to begin the harder discussion. What are other food categories that would be useful to have?

Note, we do want to keep it as general as possible and not make it hyper specific. Just broad categories that will be most likely to be used by modders and datapackers in recipes. If you know of a modder or datapacker that are heavily involved in food and would be good to bring into the discussion, ping them here or link this post to them or so.

With fish and meat taken care of, here are the remaining foods not in categories. Note, again broad categories. Some foods may not end up in a category and that's ok.

    "minecraft:apple",
    "minecraft:golden_apple",
    "minecraft:enchanted_golden_apple",
    "minecraft:carrot",
    "minecraft:golden_carrot",
    "minecraft:potato",
    "minecraft:poisonous_potato",
    "minecraft:baked_potato",
    "minecraft:melon_slice",
    "minecraft:pumpkin_pie",
    "minecraft:sweet_berries",
    "minecraft:glow_berries",
    "minecraft:dried_kelp",
    "minecraft:bread",
    "minecraft:cookie",
    "minecraft:beetroot",
    "minecraft:beetroot_soup",
    "minecraft:rabbit_stew",
    "minecraft:mushroom_stew",
    "minecraft:suspicious_stew",
    "minecraft:honey_bottle",
    "minecraft:spider_eye",
    "minecraft:rotten_flesh",

Currently my thoughts are
c:foods/fruits
c:foods/berries
c:foods/vegetables (Tomatoes would go here as they are used usually as vegetables in cookie and recipes are often for cooking)
c:foods/soups (holds soups, stews, and other liquid bowl foods)
c:foods/breads
c:foods/cookies
c:foods/candies (empty by default)
c:foods/edible_when_placed (for items like cake that can only be eaten when placed)
Change meat and fish food tags to meats and fishes

#

cc: @copper aurora

copper aurora
#

If you wanna be broad, i like the term "meals". But it's what FD uses to designate major foods

#

Those that FD stacks to 16

cobalt moon
#

meals? I dont really know what that even includes. Really any food can be argued as a meal which can be problematic and you'll get wrong entries added to that tag from modders.

#

meal might be too broad lol

primal quarry
#

why did we end up with meat/fish when it is for multiple types?

#

everything in a stack is plural meat/fish, different types use plural with s (meats/fishes)

#

and tags are about types of things

alpine lagoon
#

Meat and fish are both plural nouns

#

“These are all fish”

#

“This is all meat”
“I picked up a bundle of meat while I was out”

#

Compared to a noun that isnt a defective noun

#

“I collected a bunch of stick”

#

“I collected a bunch of fish”

primal quarry
#

yes but you commonly use the s plural for multiple types and the non s plural for many of the same

alpine lagoon
#

When specifically referring to a diversified group

#

Not a general collective

late atlas
#

"you'll be sleeping with the fish" doesn't give the same punch thinkies

primal quarry
#

also for consistency with fruits it should also be meats and fishes because the non s plural fruit referring to different types is just wrong

alpine lagoon
#

Its referring to a general collective

#

Fruit would be more corrext

#

But I agree that they should be matching either way

primal quarry
#

no it is speciffically a grouping of types so it should have the s plural

#

from the britannica dictionary:

image.png
uneven nova
#

how tf did we end up needing to cite the dictionary for tag naming

west juniper
#

"the restaurant serves a variety of meats" sounds horrible to me heh

#

just as horrible as using "meats" for the tag

#

and really, it's inconsistent with the vanilla tags

#

glass, stone, string, sand, gravel -- all of the tags for uncountable nouns are written singular

#

no wait that's the forge folder facepalm

#

vanilla is super inconsistent, it has dirt, sand, but also coals and fishes

#

which uh.... why do the common tags need a fish tag when vanilla already has one

cobalt moon
#

If you want change, you’ll have to convince everyone who voted on the poll and then run another poll or something

cobalt moon
#

But thank you for pointing out fishes tag. The vanilla tag could be given non-edible fishes so having fish tag under food is good for showing those fish as edible/food based

#

But the fact that vanilla has fishes tag, now I see vanilla has precedence for using s/es for types. Maybe next weekend I’ll switch it all to match vanilla. Sorry @spring crane, looks like it’ll have to be fishes/meats/foods later to match vanilla

cobalt moon
#

Standardize it now and hope Mojang follows suit?

lapis wren
#

That's what I'd go for

spring crane
#

I honestly don't care about the exact format 😛

lapis wren
#

As long as it's consistent in the common tags in my mind. So, "fishes", "meats", and "stones", or "fish", "meat", and "stone". I'd go for the former as it makes more sense to me English-wise, given that it's a diversified group, not a general collective, but frankly the consistency is the biggest thing

west juniper
#

I would prefer singular but I'd rather have a standard I don't love than having to hear people complain endlessly XD

#

IMO, tags that represent a substance (even if it's different types of that substance), should be singular: meat, fish (as the flesh, not the whole animal), stone, marble, ...
and tags that represent an object should be plural: rocks, pickaxes, berries

lapis wren
#

There's basically two options. Either that, or make it always use "s/es". I prefer the second because it's consistent with how those words are used in English, to talk about different types of a thing - and tags don't talk about different things, they talk about different types of a thing - flyweights, not instances, basically

#

But yeah, as giga said - consistency is key here and if the preference is for the other that's fine too, as long as it's consistent

cobalt moon
#

If doing vegetables tag, should poisonous potato be in it? Baked potato? Golden carrot/glistering melon?

floral skiff
#

Hard no for glistering melons, they aren't edible and thus they don't qualify as food in my opinion

lapis wren
#

I feel like vegetable isn't a great name for a tag

#

Like, imagine the confusion that would arise if mods add tomatoes, with one mod saying "it's a vegetable" and another say "no"; maybe something more like "crop product"? I don't know though, it's a rough one in general

floral skiff
#

it's like in real life, fruit and vegetable aren't defined the same everywhere

timid pumice
#

should a tomato be in vegtables? /j

lapis wren
#

I feel like tags should be based not on categories, but on usages

#

So the question is more "what name could be given to a useful grouping of vanilla/modded stuff here"

cobalt moon
cobalt moon
#

I can add a javadoc saying to go off of culinary categories for foods

lapis wren
#

Yeah that's how I'd do it too. The fact that it's in the "food" category should clear that up more too

#

I feel like food tags can also be added later when people have specific requests if it turns out some get missed

#

Like, if down the road someone has a use for a "root vegetable" tag that can be added, but it's niche enough I'd not worry for now

#

Also, are mushrooms in food/mushrooms or mushrooms? Given that they don't have food properties, like glistening melon, but that you'd also probably want a tag to use for cooking that excludes non-edible mushrooms

cobalt moon
#

I removed glistering melon out

#

There’s a c:mushrooms tag right now already btw

lapis wren
#

Cool. That is, to clarify, not meant to be relied on for "somewhat edible" nature

cobalt moon
#

But rather wait till people asks for specific tag like that as one could think vanilla red mushrooms aren’t edible (then again, mushroom stew exists)

lapis wren
#

Thank you again for all the work you've put into this

cobalt moon
#

@copper aurora do you need foods/mushrooms tag? Or do you use the forge/mushrooms tag currently?

copper aurora
cobalt moon
#

People pointed out that stews are considered a type of soup so soups it is lol

copper aurora
#

that excludes plated foods of other kinds, though

cobalt moon
#

What I got so far (in car rn so no screenshot. Won’t push until next weekend)

IMG_0591.jpg IMG_0592.jpg IMG_0593.jpg
copper aurora
#

FD doesn't only add soups and stews

#

that is, assuming the tag's main purpose is to group those foods which are contained in a bowl

cobalt moon
copper aurora
#

but then... should FD not add some of its foods to this tag?

#

it's a bit vague. should it be only soups/stews?

cobalt moon
#

If your food is a type of soup, add to soups tag

#

Liquid food in a bowl

copper aurora
#

i'll still argue that such a specific tag doesn't sound terribly useful to me, but sure

copper aurora
#

since this parent is being added to distinguish items as ingredients in crafting

cobalt moon
cobalt moon
#

Think I’ll skip mushroom for now as can’t think of a good solution for it as it isn’t food itself but ingredient for making food.

cobalt moon
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Soups tag isn’t very useful in recipes but can be useful for the other two use cases I would think

lapis wren
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Also, if some mod adds, say, death caps... they should be mushrooms for many purposes but not for cooking

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So better to leave it as not explicitly food related for now

cobalt moon
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Cooking denatures the poison! solved now

lapis wren
cobalt moon
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How would you categorize the vanilla soups and stews together then?

lapis wren
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I wouldn't

barren sand
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Slurp-able /jk

lapis wren
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They're distinct enough things any categorization is going to be inherently pretty niche

cobalt moon
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I can’t stand a bunch of very similar foods not being together in a tag harold

lapis wren
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You could have a "in a bowl" tag, but then I'd also want an "in a bottle" and "in a bucket" tag and it's not really food related, and I think crafting remainders already cover that

barren sand
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doesn't vanilla have a way to differentiate between drinkable and solid food?

lapis wren
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The most similar aspect of those foods in vanilla, in my mind, is the bowl-ness

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And that's not really related to their food-ness, necessarily

cobalt moon
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Tag for this would help expand my trade

cobalt moon
lapis wren
cobalt moon
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Liquid food in a bowl. Soups for that trade. I’m not too picky on what the liquid is

lapis wren
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Even rabbit stew?

cobalt moon
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Yeah. I missed that

lapis wren
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But, to confirm, not a salad in a bowl?

cobalt moon
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Is salad a liquid? A soup?

lapis wren
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If not, I'd call the tag soups and call it a day

cobalt moon
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Applesauce is no as I just want soups for my bee queen

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Applesauce would probably go in my tier 1 trade instead

lapis wren
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Then yeah, I'd say a soups tag makes sense, with a Javadoc specifying it's meant for liquid foods

cobalt moon
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Fixed my mod to accept the 4 soups and stews in vanilla properly now

barren sand
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How about calling it soups_and_stews ?

worthy mirage
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Lol tele you upset automod

cobalt moon
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@late atlas certified bruh moment

IMG_0596.jpg
worthy mirage
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Join our dev team, be free of the limits

cobalt moon
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What even is the limit

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3?

worthy mirage
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3 pings in a message yah

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We get a lot of ping spammers

cobalt moon
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Now I have to type it all out again

dawn nova
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@cobalt moon APPLY

cobalt moon
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Pinging more food devs. Do any of you have strong stances about these c food tags for 1.21? #1134480199937957969 message

Raw meats, cooked meats, raw fishes, and cooked fishes are already in so they are covered.

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@narrow mantle @pine vessel ^

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@steady crown @glossy harness ^

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I pinged Pam in MMD but no response

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@limpid void ^

olive mango
pine vessel
limpid void
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Not particularly, all seem fine to me I have a fruits/vegetables tag in croptopia actually. I see your using 'c' too, noice I'll be able to get rid of my gradle conversion someday

cobalt moon
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If you want to see the full pr, it’s in the top pin in this channel

steady crown
glossy harness
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i was going to suggest the same

cobalt moon
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What kind of breads are mods adding?

glossy harness
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also i vote food/cookies. I have a huge tag with those already

glossy harness
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for cookies i dont have any but i tagged other mods one and it has just shy of 100 entries 💀

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also idk if you already went over this but a chains tag would also be useful. ropes too but idk if that qualifies as in vanilla it would be empty. both are common additions by mods

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also what about a candy/ sweets tag? would still be empty but its yet another things that mods added many of. Also cakes/ pies

cobalt moon
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Just fyi, bread and cookie will be c:foods/breads and c:foods/cookies. Nouns of types will use s/es

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To match vanilla’s minecraft:fishes

cobalt moon
pine vessel
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I would benefit from cakes to identify non-edible but placeable-then-edible items

cobalt moon
cobalt moon
pine vessel
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either works for me, right now I use an item's food properties to identify food which doesn't work for cakes so I have to special-case those individually

cobalt moon
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Or maybe it does go into food tag and people can use ingredient diff on foods and foods/edible_when_placed if they don’t want placeable edible

pine vessel
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something else that would immensely help in compat is if there was something like c:foods/ingredients for non-edibles that are usually crafted into edibles, like sugar/salt/oil/..., but maybe that's too generic

cobalt moon
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food_ingredients/ I would prefer to explore as a post-mvp after main tag conventions are merged as I fear that would be more contested

pine vessel
steady crown
late atlas
glossy harness
glossy harness
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and i've seen many mods add chains. maybe not tags but if there was such a tag it couldhave uses

cobalt moon
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Item tag for chains? What are you using it for?

glossy harness
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for items that can go in pulley

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bet they could be used for some recipes too aswell

cobalt moon
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Ropes and chains for pulleys sounds niche to your use case tbh. Unless there’s other mods that also need the tag too that I am missing

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I can try adding empty candy tag

glossy harness
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i guess. I'm just listing all the big tags i have that ive been maintaining with many blocks from other mods. havin more things there already would mean less manual maintenance

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what about cakes and pies? having one for placeable food that can be eaten when placed also is a good idea