4th Dec Alchemist Rework Feedback Thread | Monumenta | Page 2

vital sluice Dec 4, 2025, 9:10 PM

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sadmouse

tiny sky Dec 4, 2025, 9:15 PM

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in open spaces I've found it useful to "skip" it at a shallow angle and go for direct hits

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:15 PM

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you can aim it at the ground in front of mobs and it should bounce directly into them

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1 bounce dmg isnt too bad

tiny sky Dec 4, 2025, 9:16 PM

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yeah, it's very front loaded

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you could also throw it straight up/down and let mobs come to you but I haven't learned the timings for that yet

grim ferry Dec 4, 2025, 9:16 PM

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you don't know how many times I have bounced my artillery and missed

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🥀 🥀

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:18 PM

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it's part of the learning experience

real leaf Dec 4, 2025, 9:19 PM

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Skill expression !!!

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:22 PM

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ok folks i think ive solved it

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uploading video now with clip and build

grim ferry Dec 4, 2025, 9:22 PM

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skill expression when I put a block above me

willow plover Dec 4, 2025, 9:23 PM

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need the loom ceiling mode 🥀

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:24 PM

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solved what

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:26 PM

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what to use

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build here, its just some shit i cobbled together that seemed to work fine ish

forgive me for the "gameplay" i'm quite rusty
Skills: Volatile 2(e) Energizing 1, Brutal 2(e), Artillery 2, Amalgam 1 (e), Bezoar 2

The good parts:
- Pot regen is much more tolerable with the >1 regen pots.
- Brutal DoT detonation is great, and Volatile Mixture is really fucking cool, albiet a bit investment heavy and only on groups. Anyone calling its damage bad isn't using it correctly.
- Still feels like alchemist, mechanically and overall.
- New creeper is great!

The bad/annoying parts:
- Amalgam recast is not as bad as I thought, but it still does come up when i want to vaporize a horde of tanky blazes or anything else airborne.
- Esoteric pot splash puddle is very very small. The two pots need to land basically side by side. Should be increased.
- Pot regen is slightly awful without the >1 regen pots. I cannot imagine how Formless feels.
- EE is a little annoying to refresh in high-stress where I want to keep damaging what's trying to rip my face off.
- Taboo is a liability due to the need to stay within close range to reset EE. It's not worth the health drain. I am using Creeper 2 Scorched 2 now.

ODE TO MISERY

Monumenta Builder

Fensap Flask-4
Hycenea's Vinelash-4
Cowl of the Coven-4
Silver Vestment-4
Circuit Breaker-4
Energized Enclosure-4

YouTube

mgviral

nadir 22pt round 2 salty runback

im rusty ok

▶ Play video

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you can see me forget my fucking keybinds for a second there near the beginning with the dreadnaught lol

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:29 PM

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not enough pts feedback irrelevant sry

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:29 PM

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mods

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this was first run btw i played like shit

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:32 PM

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were you trying to use taboo on this build too? the effective anemia from max hp seems like taboo will munch through your hp quickly

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:32 PM

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god no

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taboo is horrific right now

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:32 PM

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taboo is very not worth

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:32 PM

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as i said the extra requirement of EE rn is too much

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:32 PM

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can confirm

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:32 PM

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you're too close to enemies to be draining your own hp

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you will explode violently

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:32 PM

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I can munch on it to some certain extent with regen 1 sust 3 and sustaining antidote

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:33 PM

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whole citrus this was first run btw i played like shit

i play like that too what do you mean like shit

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:33 PM

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build dependant

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:33 PM

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vast summit i play like that too what do you mean like shit

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

Tenor

Handshake of the gods

▶ Play video

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:33 PM

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but I do think you need to build real sustain in either abils or gears now

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:33 PM

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i would say you would have to build specifically for taboo

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:33 PM

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otherwise you melt

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:33 PM

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BA2e and VR2e is fucking VIOLENT btw

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:33 PM

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and by that you would spend more than you achieve

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dont forget that points in taboo are also points that did not go into esoteric or scorched

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:34 PM

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you can see me fucking shred dreadnaughts half the time and it almost completely vaporizes small mob groups

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:34 PM

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opportunity cost is a point

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:34 PM

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taboo 1 is good enough atm i think

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you only really hit it for pot econ vs bosses and to close out fights faster

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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i would rather just scorch 2

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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but my builds are prolly hypertank compared to what you're using

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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did not feel pot eco as soon as i swapped to satchel

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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I run SE 2 too

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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or creeper 2

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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formless void however

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holy pain

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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formless void is damn near unusable

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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you have to build pot eco for it

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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and it is still by far the worst pot

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:35 PM

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the thing about formless is like it demands you pull some gymnastics to sustain pots

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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mild swan you have to build pot eco for it

and the inep 2?

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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tincture or tring is the easiest ones

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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yea i build ua cd specifically so i got pots

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and i still dont got pots

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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whole citrus and the inep 2?

I tested it with inep 4...

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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you can build tincture to be +2 pots x2 charges every like 15s

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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😭

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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because I use threadbound

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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inept is lesser of two evils

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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yes but its adding onto an already really bad outcome of potion stats

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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I think it's really funny if you build pot eco for it

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:36 PM

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its just recharge

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recharge is too slow for that +4

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damage

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its like alcyoneus if alcyoneus had 105% spellpower instead

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:38 PM

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I think the idea is that you use flat pot regen sources instead

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and not things like taboo/bottled inf/bezoar u

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:38 PM

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so

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bezoar and ua

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:39 PM

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Tincture 🙂

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:39 PM

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dont got points for that but ig

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:39 PM

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what points are you running

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:40 PM

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cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:41 PM

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formless with hunts charm, split tinct and indigo charm is so funny

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:44 PM

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had some actual fun playing alch for first time ever ngl

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:44 PM

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yeah getting used to this is pretty fun

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:44 PM

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once i swapped of formless ofc

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:44 PM

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can someone play apoth so i can get some feedback to update the thread with

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:44 PM

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formless is definitely a funny "build for it" type of pot

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I would not recommend it as a first timer

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:45 PM

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mayhaps

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:45 PM

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glad you're having fun though, believe it or not it was one of the main goals of the rework

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:45 PM

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whole citrus can someone play apoth so i can get some feedback to update the thread with

I play lots of apoth

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:45 PM

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thanks, good job on rework

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:46 PM

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my feedback is apoth is now a burst spec

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:46 PM

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kinda wish i would have an option for dealing with single target high hp threats tho

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maybe in form of charms

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:46 PM

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Volatile Reactions (u) and lifewood dew...

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:46 PM

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i usually just fold over to torms

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:46 PM

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it does require mobs to feed though

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if you want to know what it does exactly, death tess next to a dummy on your plots

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should be self explainatory

tiny sky Dec 4, 2025, 9:47 PM

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whole citrus can someone play apoth so i can get some feedback to update the thread with

Volatile Reaction + Panacea combos well

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I wish potion throws didn't stop skill fall through so I could just do that

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:48 PM

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I see pana as 2 brutal stacks always, usually you'd want target to be already gruesome'd so the pana hit dmg is maximized

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the self absorption is very nice but is quite legionary reliant

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-# but then again I think you always click leg 5

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:49 PM

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mild swan formless is definitely a funny "build for it" type of pot

probably not ideal to be used with artillery frankly

tiny sky Dec 4, 2025, 9:49 PM

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I do wish the on mob hit absorption had a longer range

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:49 PM

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cloud magnet Volatile Reactions (u) and lifewood dew...

this is what you're looking for yeah

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:50 PM

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opaque zenith probably not ideal to be used with artillery frankly

true, artillery is quite hungry but thankfully volatile pulls enough weight on its own with it

willow plover Dec 4, 2025, 9:50 PM

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lifewood deletes things

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:50 PM

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artill seems like a horrible pick with formless yeah with both the pot cost and the scaling

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but I don't pick artill either ways so wouldn't know

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:50 PM

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yea neither do i

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maybe it's good now, i havent actually checked but both my sp and pot eco seem tight enough

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:51 PM

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gruesome 2 or bust

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maybe I will run brutal 0 on the coral amberlight vial build but never gruesome 1 or 0

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 9:51 PM

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artil is nice as a burst option, plus it procs brutal(u)

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it's definitely not that necessary anymore

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:51 PM

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i use collapsing fragment 😊

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:51 PM

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2 brutal stacks on l2 seems juicy though

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:51 PM

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pretty underrated bag

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 9:52 PM

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fensap gamers rise

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:52 PM

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its almost identical to silver satchel but .5 more radius

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and fractal 2

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:52 PM

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i use bag of hoarding personally

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:52 PM

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opaque zenith pretty underrated bag

judging from the amount of "my pots broke" players in game today I think otherwise

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:52 PM

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throws har instead of pots

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well u can afford it probably

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:52 PM

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any other hexbound elixir users on harb

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:52 PM

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cloud magnet judging from the amount of "my pots broke" players in game today I think otherwi...

really

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:52 PM

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i could if that was an option

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:52 PM

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mine didnt

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do people use creepers now

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am i not alone on this

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:53 PM

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opaque zenith mine didnt

it broke at specifically mw3 or smth but still

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most people i look around uses it

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:53 PM

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hm

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maybe its more popular now that its pretty well statted

ashen shadow Dec 4, 2025, 9:54 PM

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okay imma go use fensap

cold juniper Dec 4, 2025, 9:54 PM

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taboo is bad

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:54 PM

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opaque zenith am i not alone on this

I run taboo 1 creeper 1 SE 2

cold juniper Dec 4, 2025, 9:54 PM

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so you might as well use creepers

ashen shadow Dec 4, 2025, 9:54 PM

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instead of formless

vast summit Dec 4, 2025, 9:54 PM

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creepers are good

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:54 PM

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i mean i used creepers even before the rework

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:54 PM

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and I juice SE to the max with charms

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besides the mandatory sustain charms to not evaporate

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:54 PM

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i used to use 1 1 2

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taboo is so bad now that i just take se 2

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:55 PM

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then again I run close ranged tanky build for alch so lol

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:55 PM

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mandatory sustain for taboo now is what holds it back

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and frankly 35% magic is really not a lot for that

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:55 PM

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I only look at it for the pot recharge

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:56 PM

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taboo is additive isnt it

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i forgot if it was

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:56 PM

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hm?

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:56 PM

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but it definitely looks like it is

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:56 PM

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x1.5 of base pot recharge rate

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:56 PM

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nono the damage i mean

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:56 PM

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additive with gruesome and so on

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but reminder that vuln is half as effective on boss type mobs

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 9:57 PM

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i use a 212 base magic build with full persp 3 and my damage barely goes up

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i mean, even without infus thats a 16% dps buff

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 9:57 PM

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it is mult with that

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class dmg not gear dmg or smth

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:01 PM

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its a decent buff on paper

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it just feels useless in practice

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crowds get 1 shot either way and your single target dps relies on prayers either way

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:02 PM

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do you not pop it like 1-2 times before an elite so it dies before threatening you for more than taboo would cost

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:02 PM

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esp not for a minimum of 25% health loss per cast lol

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:02 PM

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cloud magnet do you not pop it like 1-2 times before an elite so it dies before threatening y...

it dies anyway

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:03 PM

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^

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:03 PM

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alch can usually take 2 or 3 shots

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with taboo it's 1

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:03 PM

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opaque zenith i use a 212 base magic build with full persp 3 and my damage barely goes up

that is a lot of dmg

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no wonder you dont need taboo

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:03 PM

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I can take much more than that

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so I suppose it's a "my build is too defensive and benefits from it"

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which I'll take

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:03 PM

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schools of thought mostly

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i would rather the ability flexibility than just 35% dmg

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se2 and creeper 2 is amazing

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:04 PM

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then you build damage and don't run taboo

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I think we both wins here

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which is good

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:04 PM

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yeah, sounds like diversity to me

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:05 PM

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mild swan that is a lot of dmg

still doesn't feel like it on single targets

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painfully slow even for an aoe class

tiny sky Dec 4, 2025, 10:05 PM

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would be nice if volatile reaction (e) could apply the dot to the hit mob when you're facing a solo enemy

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:05 PM

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what single target are you fighting

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:05 PM

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twisteds

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or torms if i'm a masochist i guess but i havent used this against torms

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:06 PM

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twisteds ttk has sped up a lot in my experience

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:06 PM

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usually they spawn along with normal mobs and that's your fuel

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but if you mean second cast

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:06 PM

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yea they get nuked to maybe half hp

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but then it just takes a long ass time

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considering i have negative ehp

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and need to dodge

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:06 PM

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VR (u) output is nonexistent against one target anyways even if you could stack

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:06 PM

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cause if i didnt it would take even longer

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:06 PM

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tiny sky would be nice if volatile reaction (e) could apply the dot to the hit mob when y...

hmm

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:06 PM

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😔

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isnt 1 stack of VR(u) like 3 ticks of 8 dmg and that's it

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it scales quadratically which is silly

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:07 PM

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i was hoping alch rework would bring it any sort of single target focused ability, not enough to compare to actual single target classes ofc but enough to patch that hole it has

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:07 PM

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scorched earth sustained dmg is pretty good no?

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not absurdly so but I think it adds up

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:08 PM

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it's.. alright? the initial scorch is neat but i dont feel the splitting pots that much

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it does add up for sure

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:08 PM

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scorched and Vr is insane

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:08 PM

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well, for lack of a better option (taboo) se is pretty good yeah

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:08 PM

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heretical ore propaganda

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:08 PM

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HERETICAL ORE PROPAGANDA

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:08 PM

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tho i think creepers are somehow the strongest harb spec ability now

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:08 PM

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I run heretical with swift + explosive fissure lol

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its so dispensible I just throw SE everywhere

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:09 PM

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creepers were always underrated and with everything else nerfed they're stronger than ever now

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:09 PM

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SE is amazing now compared to before i think\

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:09 PM

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they do take 6cp for me but when i considered investing less into them i didnt find anything else to invest in so

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:09 PM

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cloud magnet SE is amazing now compared to before i think\

well it used to do more damage, as with alch overall

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it has better design tho

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:10 PM

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more? I doubt so

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:10 PM

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scorched earth scaled absurdly more in groups

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:10 PM

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idr the icd though but it has much better uptime in longer fights now

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:10 PM

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I think that's what they mean

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:10 PM

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I'm assuming only solo here so

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there's that

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:10 PM

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even in solo it felt kinda better

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idk maybe mixed with me using taboo back then

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:11 PM

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its prolly because rn it does dmg in rapid ticks so it's not as "noticeable"

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:11 PM

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also speaking of creepers, their explosion does have a vertical hitbox right

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:11 PM

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yes they explode in a radius

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:11 PM

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they're sometimes failing to target mobs just a few blocks off the ground

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which happens a lot with wind aspect

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they like

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run right below them

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:11 PM

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average mob AI

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:11 PM

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but dont start exploding until they land

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:11 PM

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prolly spherical being silly

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:12 PM

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i wonder if that could be fixed somehow

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:12 PM

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I couldn't imagine how to begin fixing that

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:12 PM

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or maybe i try a different bag, i doubt it'd come up that much without wind aspect

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:12 PM

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it was already difficult enough to not have them pause for 1s before starting to go to their target

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:12 PM

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why is wind aspect even on collapsing fragment 💔 it was almost perfect

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:12 PM

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mojank...

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just build fractal on armor and use other bags (real)

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

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canteen frankly does not seem bad

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what was its radius again

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

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what other bags? I'm not too sure either

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2.5 🗿

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

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2.5!

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unusable.

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

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if it's 3 I would look at it

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

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cloud magnet just build fractal on armor and use other bags (real)

i use it for good base stats not fractal

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i mean

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its 12 damage 1.2 recharge rate

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

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but I can't play anything below effectively 3.6 radius

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

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even with 2.5 radius that does not seem that bad

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

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im telling you right now

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if you try a 2.5 radius pot

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you'll realize why we say its unusable

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:14 PM

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in r1-r2 I play the 4-4.5 rad pot

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:14 PM

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i never used oversized flask on 3 radius pots, if i slot that in it'll be fine

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:14 PM

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in r3 I always run oversized flask

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and even then I only run 3+ rad pots

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:14 PM

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frankly pots do jackshit damage now anyway they're not a main source of dps anymore

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you kinda just use creepers amalgam and volatile

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and artillery if you prefer that

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:14 PM

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and those scales on pot dmg

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VR especially

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:14 PM

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yeah

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not on radius tho

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:15 PM

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VR does

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SE does too kinda

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:15 PM

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opaque zenith not on radius tho

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:15 PM

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thats just vr

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:15 PM

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have you seen VR radius with oversized shadebound lol

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:15 PM

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also 150% radius is enough tbf

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:15 PM

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not with 2.5 bag

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:15 PM

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cloud magnet have you seen VR radius with oversized shadebound lol

i cant imagine encounters that big

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:15 PM

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cloud magnet not with 2.5 bag

if i use oversized

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like ive never used oversized with 3 radius bags and was fine

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:16 PM

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I am just a big explosions enjoyer

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my aim sucks

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and I must compensate

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:16 PM

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also wtf is nightbarb radius if it has 1.2 rate and 20 damage

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is it like 1.5 lol

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:16 PM

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3, no?

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:16 PM

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whar

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that cant be

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cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:17 PM

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...you know what gallery items are right

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:17 PM

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oh wait is it a gallery one

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idk them by name

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:17 PM

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suffer

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:17 PM

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i forget gallery exists

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can u blame me for that really

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amberlight seems fine but a bit low proj speed

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:19 PM

#

its technique

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:19 PM

#

tho idk how hex eater interacts with alch's many debuffs, i'll have to test that

#

just ignore its existence

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:19 PM

#

opaque zenith tho idk how hex eater interacts with alch's many debuffs, i'll have to test that

gruesome counts as 3 debuffs for hex eater

#

so its effectively 15.5 for pot throw

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:19 PM

#

thats a lot of base damage huh

#

wait hexbound elixir is pretty close to what i want

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:20 PM

#

hexbound's great

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:20 PM

#

hmm so you think that the elixir splash is only painful on low radius bags?

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:21 PM

#

low radius bags have always been bad

#

the gold standard is 3

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:21 PM

#

I can see why

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:21 PM

#

and you tried it with higher radius ones and you don't think that it's bad on them?

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:21 PM

#

although I never use lower rad bags so I never felt it was too bad

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:21 PM

#

whole citrus hexbound's great

yeah im probably gonna swap to hexbound later tonight and see if the creeper issue persists

#

i'll maybe say smth here if i dont forget

#

gotta touch grass now tho

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:21 PM

#

start chugging taboo with it

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

valid option as well yeah

#

built in regen and sust 1 could do good

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

hexbound is p cool for aggressive tabooing

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

or, any tabooing now lol

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

pictured is me dying vs a twisted after clicking 3 taboos

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

who knows really maybe if i can properly use taboo with hexbound it'll be my new perfect bag

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

hexbound is really nice yeah

#

there is a lot of different builds you can make now and you should try things until you can find the thing you like

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:23 PM

#

what are your thoughts on the jb charm rn

#

i feel like the penalty feels too harsh

#

(the serum i think)

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:25 PM

#

I think so too

ashen shadow Dec 4, 2025, 10:25 PM

#

penalty is too much

#

cut it to 5 or 10%

#

20% is a bit ridiculous

cold juniper Dec 4, 2025, 10:25 PM

#

jb?

ashen shadow Dec 4, 2025, 10:25 PM

#

yeah

cold juniper Dec 4, 2025, 10:25 PM

#

ohhh

#

yeah

ashen shadow Dec 4, 2025, 10:26 PM

#

mycelian serum

cold juniper Dec 4, 2025, 10:26 PM

#

completly useless as it stands now

ashen shadow Dec 4, 2025, 10:26 PM

#

#

1cp nerf charm

cold juniper Dec 4, 2025, 10:26 PM

#

1cp to make you weaker

cloud magnet Dec 4, 2025, 10:28 PM

#

use it with formless

#

can't kill a pot eco that isn't there

mild swan Dec 4, 2025, 10:29 PM

#

he's true

cold juniper Dec 4, 2025, 10:32 PM

#

thats based

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:39 PM

#

Alchyoneus

#

I forgot I had sust 1 from wolfsblood

#

Sust 2 regen1 might work

#

Soothing maybe idk

#

It should help a lot now actually

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:42 PM

#

ashen shadow

I mean elixir is ass so is the charm

#

stitchshrug

#

Idk why its duration was removed tho

whole citrus Dec 4, 2025, 10:47 PM

#

i think EE2 letting you stack 2 durations of EE would be nice

#

since rn it is exclusively a team buff

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 10:50 PM

#

Ee is weird

#

It's one of those buffs you want to have always on

#

Out of combat, in small or large combat, everywhere

#

But you need to do a mandatory task for it

#

Which is like overcomplicated swiftness

#

I get that they didn't want to copy swiftness but it could just be a different ability instead

#

Because right now it forces an inconvenience on you in exchange for qol

#

But because of you having to manually keep it up it ends up as anti-qol

#

So what even is the point of the ability

haughty silo Dec 4, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

opaque zenith So what even is the point of the ability

ye it just feels like a chore while playing and im constantly checking my uptime on speed/jh. Auto recast being gone makes sense if that's how they wanna balance but please allow duration stacking, even if its lvl 2 ee only at least then we can not have to constantly lose and regain speed and jump height. It's just not fun

opaque zenith Dec 4, 2025, 11:12 PM

#

I just find it weird that an ability which gains you nothing but qol takes the exact opposite of qol to activate

#

You may as well be voiding 2 sp if you get a slight convenience for a slight inconvenience

tiny sky Dec 4, 2025, 11:38 PM

#

Tried a bit on Harbinger and it vs Apoth is night and day

#

it's so much stronger

haughty silo Dec 5, 2025, 12:30 AM

#

opaque zenith You may as well be voiding 2 sp if you get a slight convenience for a slight inc...

most people i have been showing alch to have been saying skip ee altogether for how annoying it is, which I don't blame them if they never played alch before. I think being able to stack it would fix the issue while still keeping it an eco thing

tiny sky Dec 5, 2025, 12:36 AM

#

a little bit of leeway would also be nice with ee, especially when playing with low radius potions/with latency

#

make it so you can get the buffs applied for 1s after the potion hits or something like that

mild swan Dec 5, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

What is your guys' favorite 2.5 radius bag? (For testing purposes)

vital sluice Dec 5, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

Perfume fatty

haughty silo Dec 5, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

i used to main brim but with reworks pot eco is so important so ive been playing ec pot

opaque zenith Dec 5, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

i didnt actually pay attention to this before but god damn volatile with arcane reagent looks insane

opaque zenith Dec 5, 2025, 12:41 AM

#

mild swan What is your guys' favorite 2.5 radius bag? (For testing purposes)

canteen

haughty silo Dec 5, 2025, 12:41 AM

#

pot eco is rough in r1 and you cant really sustain brim or willow pot without downtime which is kinda eh

opaque zenith Dec 5, 2025, 12:41 AM

#

i love canteen

willow plover Dec 5, 2025, 12:41 AM

#

Firework is cool

mild swan Dec 5, 2025, 12:41 AM

#

opaque zenith i didnt actually pay attention to this before but god damn volatile with arcane ...

You like the zig zaggy firework?

opaque zenith Dec 5, 2025, 12:41 AM

#

well i mostly meant the ground effect but the mob marks look good as well

mild swan Dec 5, 2025, 12:41 AM

#

Yeah they are neat

#

Also volatile base cosmetic is unique since it mirrors the colors of your selected pot cosmetic

#

Matches*

opaque zenith Dec 5, 2025, 12:43 AM

#

i finally settled on an alch build i think (?) its kinda fun there is this much variety now cause i see people running drastically different builds from what i use all the time

mild swan Dec 5, 2025, 12:44 AM

#

Yeah it's awesome

#

Once I get my hands on a formless I'll start running it 😁

willow plover Dec 5, 2025, 12:44 AM

#

I think volatile is now the longest ability in the game lol

mild swan Dec 5, 2025, 12:45 AM

#

Oh god the website

opaque zenith Dec 5, 2025, 12:45 AM

#

mild swan Once I get my hands on a formless I'll start running it 😁

maniac

#

i still havent dared to try formless

mild swan Dec 5, 2025, 12:46 AM

#

It's very Funny

willow plover Dec 5, 2025, 12:46 AM

#

It might be just me but I feel like gruesome has no point to being split at l1; why does it trigger at l1 with it?

#

Like, yeah you could spread it further I guess? but brutal has a tangible benefit to stacks that isn't just spread further

mild swan Dec 5, 2025, 12:47 AM

#

That is a fair point

thorn marsh Dec 5, 2025, 12:49 AM

#

~~Gruesome/brutal stack mixing~~

whole citrus Dec 5, 2025, 12:58 AM

#

mild swan What is your guys' favorite 2.5 radius bag? (For testing purposes)

R1: Perfume (Alembic is 0.9 recharge now, good luck getting me to use that in R1)
R2: Protean because it's fucking hilarious sniping ghasts with artillery
R3: Crystal Canteen or Silver Satchel if i'm feeling like sniping mobs with it

haughty silo Dec 5, 2025, 1:24 AM

#

whole citrus R1: Perfume (Alembic is 0.9 recharge now, good luck getting me to use that in R1...

ye recharge on alembic makes it almost unusable since we dont have potion eco specs 🙁

whole citrus Dec 5, 2025, 1:24 AM

#

r1 potions should not be allowed to go below 1

swift stream Dec 5, 2025, 1:39 AM

#

Has anyone tried Amberlight vial?

fair elm Dec 5, 2025, 1:48 AM

#

It’s my favorite bag

spare marsh Dec 5, 2025, 3:14 AM

#

It does more than it looks

whole citrus Dec 5, 2025, 3:21 AM

#

it very much does

half fog Dec 5, 2025, 3:29 AM

#

The beauty of low recharge bags has not been discovered

haughty silo Dec 5, 2025, 3:33 AM

#

im enjoying lower charge in r2/r3 with options to get pots back, but r1 doesnt rlly have options besides +2(+4) with tinct every 40 seconds or ua. It makes brim and willow pot rough. lower rate pots in r2/r3 are unique tho

spare marsh Dec 5, 2025, 4:33 AM

#

half fog The beauty of low recharge bags has not been discovered

I LOVE Formless Void

naive yew Dec 5, 2025, 5:07 AM

#

the base visual effects look really good

tiny sky Dec 5, 2025, 5:34 AM

#

spare marsh It does more than it looks

Yeah, found that later.

thorn marsh Dec 5, 2025, 7:15 AM

#

Big fan of how AA bouncing and belltongue turned out

#

It's quite fun in marina

#

For any wonderers, max bounce belltongue AA (lv 2) deals ~12 + 385% of pot damage

cloud magnet Dec 5, 2025, 8:35 AM

#

spare marsh I LOVE Formless Void

my formless void build ironically has the best pot eco rn lmao

#

other builds run out sometimes but this one doesn't

storm spear Dec 5, 2025, 9:35 AM

#

cloud magnet other builds run out sometimes but this one doesn't

what's le build

cloud magnet Dec 5, 2025, 9:36 AM

#

storm spear what's le build

just split tincture and kaleidoscopic chalice

storm spear Dec 5, 2025, 9:37 AM

#

oh

#

ig tinc is good extra pot

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 12:32 AM

#

I've been playing in r1 a bunch and this is such a glow up, but there's still 2 glaring issues

Pot eco is extremely bad in this region. In r2, I can play with the .8 an .9 pot rates fine, as theres specs which help boost pot gen, but in r1 we dont have access to this. Before the rework, it was very common to just rely on your brutal damage during pot downtime in order to recharge, but you cant do this anymore with brutal rework. You end up just strafing bosses because you run out of pots all of the time. In solo content you can take time to loot or whatnot, but in strikes you fall behind the team and the only way I have been keeping up is with EC pot with the 1.2 rate. During bosses I still run out and the only 2 options you have to regen pots is tinct and ua, which are extremely weak compared to r2/r3 options
ee is painful to proc, and I only found it viable with the willows pot. Ive ended up just switching to put more points into damage abilities and swap magic armor for speed because its not reliable or fun to build around. The amount of times you expect you have speed/jh and don't is too much with the 8 second timer. ee2 also feels really weak since its half the duration for allies only. I feel like this could be a good oppurtunity to add on some sort of duration stack for ee1 so maybe you can still waste as many pots, but in order to build up some more time of the elixir buff. I feel like the annoyance of losing speed/jh could be solved if we could store up 20-30 seconds of the buff with our pot eco

half fog Dec 6, 2025, 12:47 AM

#

Hmm slow bags does suck against bosses because there’s like no bezoar

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 12:55 AM

#

half fog Hmm slow bags does suck against bosses because there’s like no bezoar

even with bezoars in r1 u cant keep up in strikes. in r2 its not an issue cuz u can get natural from taboo or instant pot recovery from tring on top of everything else. Like rn brim is almost unusable in strike/bosses where its supposed to shine

obtuse mesa Dec 6, 2025, 2:44 AM

#

the old skills like ua, aa and pots feel very underwhelming rn, volatile, esoteric and scorched earth feel good
i have not tried apoth in r3 yet so no thoughts on it

#

it feels like volatile outclasses ua's niche of killing grouped up crowds and pots/aa just deal very underwhelming damage (at least with what ive run so far)

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 2:51 AM

#

obtuse mesa it feels like volatile outclasses ua's niche of killing grouped up crowds and po...

ye brutal ticks do feel worse than before, i think it could just use some number tweaks, same with aa. I also feel the same with the brutal charms rn (maybe it would be ok if the brutal dmg was tweaked first)

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 4:18 AM

#

i played around more in r3 as well now with a new build with stuff I had from before, just to feel. Playstyle is so different compared to old alch but its alr. r3 ability damage doesnt seem to be an issue besides brutal. I was doing some testing with all 3 brutal charms and the increase on dmg is pretty bad since they were nerfed so heavily

Using fensap flask 261% magic dmg. Without all 3 brutal charms the biggest explosion I can get is ~67 dmg (using no brutal ticks from 3rd to 4th potion splash causing explosion)

With all 3 charms (1.65x base dot damage) The final explosion is 78 dmg.

Im 99% sure that its because the charm only boosts the inital damage and not the brutal stacks, and if that is the case, 6 charm power for + 11 dmg after 4 hits is ☠️

azure nymph Dec 6, 2025, 4:41 AM

#

thorn marsh For any wonderers, max bounce belltongue AA (lv 2) deals ~12 + 385% of pot damag...

man i wonder if this gets brutal a crazy blast damage

thorn marsh Dec 6, 2025, 4:42 AM

#

azure nymph man i wonder if this gets brutal a crazy blast damage

Brutal damage is independent of what AA deals so not sure what you're getting at here

azure nymph Dec 6, 2025, 4:44 AM

#

oh i mean the synergy in them
AA applies 2 stacks of brutal and brutal explodes when 3 stacks
And brutal enhancement gives 1 tick if you AA after brutal

#

Something something

#

more like wonder if ones can be hit by all 6 aa bounces

thorn marsh Dec 6, 2025, 4:44 AM

#

Uh... AA doesn't hit multiple times when it bounces

#

It just gains damage for when it explodes at the end

azure nymph Dec 6, 2025, 4:45 AM

#

oh.

thorn marsh Dec 6, 2025, 4:45 AM

#

👽

azure nymph Dec 6, 2025, 4:45 AM

#

suffer

willow plover Dec 6, 2025, 4:45 AM

#

lol

#

imagine if it did

#

throw it down and oops thwomp

#

Weight of the Outworld charm

azure nymph Dec 6, 2025, 4:50 AM

#

man i thought it is like that as soon as i read the description

spare marsh Dec 6, 2025, 4:51 AM

#

azure nymph oh i mean the synergy in them AA applies 2 stacks of brutal and brutal explodes ...

actually it's technically 4 stacks since it says if you refresh the effect 3 times, making the first splash not count as a stack

azure nymph Dec 6, 2025, 4:52 AM

#

ohh

#

I should read the descriptions more carefully

thorn marsh Dec 6, 2025, 5:05 AM

#

If only someone made descriptions easier to read...

spare marsh Dec 6, 2025, 5:05 AM

#

thorn marsh If only someone made descriptions easier to read...

chop chop ice boy

#

ur descriptions are beautiful

short meteor Dec 6, 2025, 12:53 PM

#

I've just been looking at charms for a potential build and I wanna ask about the SKR Alch charm Primeval Scale. Isn't this like kinda bad?

Especially for 3 charm power it makes it so at level 1 you go from 50% + 10% pot damage in a radius = 60% in total to 25% + 20% pot damage in a larger radius = 45% in total. At level 2 the second explosion is 60% + 10% = 70% to 30% + 20% = 50%

So it's taking 25-28% of the total damage overall (it's worse with the level 2 explosion), to have the lower of the two values (even after the charm buff) be done in a doubled radius?

Is that extra radius ever worth it for lowering the damage it deals by that much, am I missing something here? Seems like a net negative to me and it's 3 charm points

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 12:55 PM

#

it's supposed to trade single target damage for more aoe damage

#

so it's better when you're expected to fight big hordes a lot (like gallery)

#

it doesn't just increase the radius, but also doubles the damage of the detonation

short meteor Dec 6, 2025, 12:59 PM

#

Yeah I understand that, I'm just coming into this with a fresh pair of eyes and don't see how that increased radius makes up for the total damage loss. I'm hitting 2 dummies in the pic hence the doubled up damage, but it goes from 14.4 + 2.9 = 17.3 -> 7.2 + 5.75 = 13. That feels pretty significant of a loss for the smaller 5.75 being dealt in a doubled radius

#

And it's 3 charm power which I could just put into something else

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 1:00 PM

#

2 dummies doesn't sound like a lot of mobs

short meteor Dec 6, 2025, 1:01 PM

#

Maybe in places like gallery where there's tons of mobs in a much larger radius getting those damage procs on them from much further away is really useful but I feel like for most encounters in normal content it feels like a bad trade off to me. If it is just intended for those types of contents then that's fair enough I guess

fair elm Dec 6, 2025, 1:02 PM

#

i find lots of use with killing eiltes and dreads

short meteor Dec 6, 2025, 1:03 PM

#

Do you mean dealing with the dreadlings?

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 1:05 PM

#

it could be that the scaling is too slow for 3 power. for now though I'll be focusing on other stuff

short meteor Dec 6, 2025, 1:10 PM

#

I'm so used to having 2 weapons on my hotbar with other classes lol. With potions being set to 0 when swapping to a different one dual wielding seems unwise so I'm not sure what else to have in my other slot

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 1:12 PM

#

mainhand shield

#

or recoil ball

#

I use that recoil ball so much

short meteor Dec 6, 2025, 1:15 PM

#

Might just add another food lmao

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 1:15 PM

#

this is what I use

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 1:28 PM

#

short meteor I've just been looking at charms for a potential build and I wanna ask about the...

whats the base radius of it even

#

isnt it like 3 blocks radius

#

which is a fuck ton, i mean surely you wont have mobs spread out as far as 6 whole blocks

thorn marsh Dec 6, 2025, 3:57 PM

#

+100% radius is kind of a big deal for 3 blocks

#

Since keep in mind it’s not just the 20% pot damage but also making each mob give a stack of brutal to each other mob, and increasing brutal to level 3 too

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 4:00 PM

#

Yea but as I understand it the radius starts at the position of every mob hit by volatile

#

So that surely covers an entire encounter already

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:05 PM

#

my only serious gripes thus far are like

#

volatile reaction cooldown is probably too long

#

EE is still annoying to cast and lv2 isn't worth anymore

#

and amalgam recast but im getting used to it slowly

#

other than that it's way more explosive than before and i love it lol

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:10 PM

#

I got plans

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:18 PM

#

i have been having a lot of fun with VR enhancement

#

it is basically instant crowd deletion

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:19 PM

#

yay someone who doesn't think it's worthless

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:19 PM

#

and it chunks the hell out of elites too

#

I use brutal 2 enhance with it

#

for the dot detonation

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:20 PM

#

have you tried artillery enhancement?

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:20 PM

#

i have and it is very jarring with the bounce

#

definitely something I'd have to get used to

#

also seems a little poi dependant

#

it'll be a small increase in big open pois but it's gonna like, eviscerate shittering gutters

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:21 PM

#

you just have to accept that sometimes you'll only get 1 bounce, but the frontloaded damage increase is there to help with it

#

belltongue is more so situational like you describe I think, but it's Funny

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 5:22 PM

#

mild swan yay someone who doesn't think it's worthless

Its not worthless but it more or less falls into same role as every other alch skill

#

Which is well, clearing crowds

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:23 PM

#

it's more single target focused though

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:23 PM

#

more importantly it is not that bad at dealing with single targets

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 5:23 PM

#

Maybe

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:23 PM

#

it's especially good if you get two elites spawned with legionary

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 5:23 PM

#

It has not been helping me that much on specifically torms

#

Maybe thats on me

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:23 PM

#

nobody deals with torms well.

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:24 PM

#

yeah I personally play just twisted

#

for torms you'd need more sustained dps anyway I suppose

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 5:24 PM

#

Its probs enough for twisteds

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:24 PM

#

twisteds you can deal with easily enough i just keep tossing creepers at them

#

esoteric with the portal charm is fucking stupid by the way

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 5:25 PM

#

Just as a charm idea idk if i could reduce explosion radius in favour of single target damage on volatile that would be jolly

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:25 PM

#

the cooldown is so hilariously short i have a problem with pot economy sometimes lmao

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:25 PM

#

vast summit Just as a charm idea idk if i could reduce explosion radius in favour of single ...

lifewood dew:

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 5:25 PM

#

Must have missed that ngl

#

Does it do exactly that then

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:26 PM

#

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 5:27 PM

#

I'll test with it then apologies

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:27 PM

#

no worries

#

there are quite literally pages of new stuff so you can't really know everything immediately

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 5:29 PM

#

I think i just saw spread radius and thought it just more dot spread instead

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:34 PM

#

makes sense

#

also I will add steroid refund for next week

#

and taboo is gonna change a bit too

whole citrus Dec 6, 2025, 5:41 PM

#

oh dear i didn't even think about what Steroid is doing right now

#

37.5% HP per cast sadmouse

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 5:45 PM

#

it's quite funny

#

I had been using it with taboo 1 with the bug that made it not increase my magic damage on taboo 1

#

and I Didn't Notice

ashen shadow Dec 6, 2025, 6:17 PM

#

bro js losing hp for fun

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 6:18 PM

#

To be fair it was fun

#

And I did gain the pot recharge at least

ashen shadow Dec 6, 2025, 6:20 PM

#

why does taboo give kbr btw

#

it feels kind of an odd thing to put on the magic range class

grim ferry Dec 6, 2025, 6:20 PM

#

flavor stat I think

#

idk

ashen shadow Dec 6, 2025, 6:20 PM

#

yeah it was on old taboo and i was like whats the point

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 6:29 PM

#

it's useful

#

I personally use it a lot

cloud magnet Dec 6, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

people play alch at a range?

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

i have tested dew and idk

#

either im not understanding from where damage comes or it just doesnt do much

cloud magnet Dec 6, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

death tess next to a plot dummy, VR (u) then UA it

#

that should explain what it is

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

will those mobs even survive to apply the second effect

cloud magnet Dec 6, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

UA applies both at once

#

it transfers

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

you tested it? alr

cloud magnet Dec 6, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

it's the only way I know which can reliably demonstrate VR(u)

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 8:20 PM

#

but yeah you have to apply both effects for the (u) to apply

#

if you kill with applying just brutal (like artil perhaps) then you get no VR(u) proc

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 8:21 PM

#

thats honestly does not seem realistic if im dealing with torm

#

that means i need mobs around that live long enough to get both and preferably near tormented

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 8:21 PM

#

usually right on spawn is your best bet

#

otherwise the increased range from dew can help

cloud magnet Dec 6, 2025, 8:22 PM

#

yeah that's the only real use case atm, I think it's super specific

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 8:25 PM

#

it is indeed made for that niche

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 8:38 PM

#

ok i see the vision

#

its kinda cooked beyond spawning moment but i see how it works

#

its more of elite killer i think not twist/torm

cloud magnet Dec 6, 2025, 8:38 PM

#

death tess tech

#

it consistently nukes twisted for me

#

in normal play

#

you just need to use VR as the opener on the spawner when a twisted spawns

mild swan Dec 6, 2025, 8:40 PM

#

it's a bit silly and it would be a bit easier if the high hp target could spread to itself

#

so I may allow that to happen

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 8:41 PM

#

555 damage with dew on max stacks

#

439 without

short meteor Dec 6, 2025, 8:53 PM

#

Played apoth for a few pois in a giga squishy set but with SKT pot playing at range and it's pretty good but it feels weird, nothing feels like it does a huge amount of damage, but everything still dies and it clears at a good speed regardless. I might be too rogue pilled in that regard.

Coming from someone who hasn't played the previous iteration of alch I don't find an issue just splashing myself for EE and I don't even use RJ so I haven't had to worry about that. Keybinds are of course quite tight with having the 3 defaults be taken for throwing each potion type, but I have managed to make it work nicely (I hate drop keybind).

Overall feels quite fun making combos with VR, trying to get brutal stacks and upping the levels to 3 with abilities. I have added it to my bonus classes in my armoury for now!

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 8:54 PM

#

i feel like this gameplay can be improved a lot but admittedly the clear time is already on the better side of specs
https://youtu.be/Svcrcrhfgxk?si=2WLhV48WBhUo8pv_

YouTube

Not Voidrim

mid gameplay but new alch showcase team wahoo

good rework

▶ Play video

vast summit Dec 6, 2025, 9:05 PM

#

mmm

#

not sold on dew but enhance itself helps a bit

azure nymph Dec 6, 2025, 9:15 PM

#

Creepa op

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:17 PM

#

i always liked creepers

#

now that taboo is bad theyre even better

#

they kind of need you to spend 6cp on them but i think thats the best way i could spend 6cp anyway

#

the other options are amalgam charming which idt i need that much

#

primeval scale is alright but very unnecessary

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:19 PM

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short meteor Played apoth for a few pois in a giga squishy set but with SKT pot playing at ra...

ee splashing on self seems bareable at best in r3, only cuz u can use more radius bags with the radius charm. In r1/r2 the ee self application is terrible. Its so often that half the gameplay in those regions is self splashing to upkeep

In r3 u dont feel the pain as much because its so fast paced, and you can get closer with less risk compared to r1/r2

After fixing the brutal damage not scaling at all practically, the dmg seems good, maybe slightly better than before but alch kinda needed it. Its much better at clears but still iffy on bosses and heavier things. Some burst combos are pretty cool rn tho to get decent numbers but u gotta use all cds to achieve this so you cant do it often

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:19 PM

#

ironically im using bezoar enhancement now idk if anyone noticed

#

out of the available options im pretty sure its unironically best

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:20 PM

#

opaque zenith ironically im using bezoar enhancement now idk if anyone noticed

is it just me or are all the enhancements pretty mid. I am using brutal cuz it seems good but the rest seem pretty bad

#

im also using bezoar u lmao

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:20 PM

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they are all pretty mid

#

pretty shit i would even say

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:20 PM

#

ye

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:20 PM

#

bezoar u isnt something outstanding but for lack of better options ig

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:21 PM

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ye theres nothing else to take rlly

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:21 PM

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which is funny cause amalgam enhancement is like insane

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and the rest is just.... bwomp

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:21 PM

#

brutal is good imo

#

extra stack is good but brutal dmg in r3 is so shit rn

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:21 PM

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brutal dot does like 5 damage

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:21 PM

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why does the charm only buff base

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:21 PM

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thats just a 5 final damage on every spell

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which is fucking shit

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:22 PM

#

#

on max infusion build its like +10 dmg on brutal explosion lmao with all 3 charms

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:22 PM

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i dont think brutal damage itself is bad considering you get it for free, but the enhancement is.......... ....

#

just dont build dot what can i say

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:22 PM

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i think the charm needs to boost the stacks as well

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only boosting the original 1+10% is pretty bad especially by 65% for 6 charm power

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and ee still feels like the worst thing ever ee2 should definitely allow stacking of the duration. Im ok with using pots to get time but we shouldnt have to micro every 8 seconds to keep jump boost it feels dumb. Stacking 20-30 seconds would be so much better

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:26 PM

#

honestly doesnt even matter i wouldnt pick ee even if it had autocast

#

alch eats too much sp now i think

#

everything is very competitive (mostly cause your damage is mid and you want as many things to boost it as you can)

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:27 PM

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that too so thats why I think ee getting nerfed and removing autocast just killed it, everyone is dropping it for more ability power

#

tbh it feels like alch abilities are even more required now

#

im autolocking the whole right side pretty much lol

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:30 PM

#

maybe i should drop brutal alch altogether

#

fuck does that dot do for me right

#

the vuln is surely better

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:55 PM

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ye brutal dmg is really bad in r3 especially at the moment. I think it either needs to be buffed or the charms need to buff the stacks too, its so low even with like 260 magic damage

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:56 PM

#

nah i opted to remove l2 artillery instead

#

brutal damage by itself isnt that good but the explosion is solid with all the sources of brutal u have

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:57 PM

#

what pot are you using and how much magic dmg

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 9:57 PM

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fensap

#

allows me to spam everything

#

idt i'd be able to use artillery consistently with anything else

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i have 212% base magic and full persp 3

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 9:59 PM

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ye im about there as well, the brutal explosions arent getting past 100 even with max charms and debuffs applied on fensap

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 10:00 PM

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i think heavier alch with less reliance on abilities and more on pots with the cz one would work

#

i just prefer this tho

#

hexbound elixir with taboo is an option as well, idt taboo is worth it with any other bag

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 10:00 PM

#

the brutal explosions feel good in r1/r2 but r3 they are weak

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i think the charm should just boost the stacks as well, why does it only buff base 🙁

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 10:00 PM

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but taboo is yet another keybind which not only takes a slot but is also 1 more thing to manage

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 10:01 PM

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ye its so caster heavy

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 10:01 PM

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which in the end isnt worth it for me personally over fensap just letting me get that damage from extra artilleries

haughty silo Dec 6, 2025, 10:01 PM

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i feel like im button mashing a lot more after rework

opaque zenith Dec 6, 2025, 10:02 PM

#

hexbound is the middleground between pots and abils

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with taboo

#

fensap is just a great driver for a highly ability oriented build

#

the variety is there

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:01 AM

#

alch is probably the best rework

#

turning a boring class with 0 variety into a fun one with tons of variety overnight isn't easy

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:02 AM

#

taboo will become less micromanagement next week

#

I think we cooked up a good new iteration

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:02 AM

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in what way? if you dont mind sharing that

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:02 AM

#

opaque zenith turning a boring class with 0 variety into a fun one with tons of variety overni...

overnight as if it didn't take 3 months of work 🙄

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:03 AM

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well. yeah but most of the time reworks are very rough when they come out

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:03 AM

#

also I can use all the skills on low recharge bags pretty confidently, it's just a matter of optimizing your potion economy handling so that you have enough

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:03 AM

#

you mean the cz one?

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:03 AM

#

fensap might be slightly overtuned but it's also maybe a more beginner friendly playstyle which is fine

#

Yeah I do have a build for formless, but I main shadebound

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:04 AM

#

fensap is alright cause the actual pots do like negative damage 💔

#

maybe like 0.5-1 damage nerf but i think it promotes a fun archetype

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:04 AM

#

opaque zenith in what way? if you dont mind sharing that

hmm I got rid of the recasts thing entirely and put a new, more natural incentive to not have it always on which was the main thing I wanted to get rid of from the previous iteration anyway

#

you'll see

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:05 AM

#

curious

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:05 AM

#

I will watch your video now

#

and Judge your Gameplay /j

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:05 AM

#

well either way i think taboo's main issue is the health drain and frankly too little reward

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:05 AM

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mild swan and Judge your Gameplay /j

im cooked.

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:06 AM

#

also my build has 60% magic damage and fractal 4 and I do a lot of damage

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:06 AM

#

i can barely figure out my keybinds

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:06 AM

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idk what y'all are on (maybe it's fensap)

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:06 AM

#

well, you are running the cz bag so

#

we might just have similar damage in the end

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:06 AM

#

shadebound mainly yeah

#

but yeah I really love how much build variety we can have now

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:07 AM

#

also if you watch the video wtf did that blightleaking heart do at 1:00

#

is that some alch skill

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:07 AM

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the slime?

#

you knocked it up with amalgam

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:07 AM

#

oh wait that has vertical kb

#

i forgot cause it's usually not 20 miles up 💔

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:08 AM

#

bee modifier

#

hehe

#

also you should get the overlay pack for the volatile icon

#

it's linked in the doc in the volatile section

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:09 AM

#

o wtf

#

thats quite hidden

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:10 AM

#

it will be part of the rp eventually anyway

#

the scorched fragments look funny with that dropped item mod you have

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:11 AM

#

i also realized i had no usurper all that time

#

i couldve played way more aggressive probably

#

curse of a thousand builds

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:13 AM

#

mild swan the scorched fragments look funny with that dropped item mod you have

on that note is it possible to make philosopher's stones glow a different color from normal bezoars?

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:13 AM

#

I was debating whether I should post a gameplay video on me playing formless but I figured maybe later

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:13 AM

#

opaque zenith on that note is it possible to make philosopher's stones glow a different color ...

sure, I could see about making it glow red

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:13 AM

#

yippie

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:13 AM

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or is that confusing with some other stuff

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:13 AM

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i feel like im the first person ever to use bezoar u

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:14 AM

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I really don't know what glow colors other classes have

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:14 AM

#

uhh

#

the only red glow i can think of is scout's ee cosmetic

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:14 AM

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opaque zenith i feel like im the first person ever to use bezoar u

I use it! (it's nice on slow bags)

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:14 AM

#

and attacking enemies but surely the small item wont be confused with it

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:14 AM

#

mild swan also I can use all the skills on low recharge bags pretty confidently, it's just...

I feel the same with r3 bags and somewhat with r2 bags but r1 low recharge bags are really hard to use at the moment

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:14 AM

#

i think philosopher's stones could use some extra linger time

#

it's easy to miss them at base

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:14 AM

#

I personally use a slow bag in all regions 🙃

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:15 AM

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and unlike bezoars they arent as expendable to miss

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:15 AM

#

you'll get there eventually

#

or maybe it's just not your thing

#

(valid)

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:15 AM

#

like for r1 specifically bosses, there's no way to generate pots outside of ua and 2 from tinct

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:15 AM

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its an enhancement with decent potential, it probably needs a bit of polishing tho

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:15 AM

#

well yeah on bosses it makes sense

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:15 AM

#

i guess is that an intended limitation

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:15 AM

#

in r1 you have reverie bag for bossing

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:15 AM

#

mild swan sure, I could see about making it glow red

do they have the same model without alch cosmetic?

#

red/orange would be fitting

#

like you know the gold ish mc color

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:16 AM

#

ye but you do more damage consistently over time with ec pot over brim because the rate is so much faster

#

i guess if we go down the rabbit hole of melee alch again brim is better lol but i miss using brim as only weapon in bosses, if you just wanna pot ec is way better

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:17 AM

#

I personally dislike high proj speed on my potions

#

but again it's there for a personal preference option

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:18 AM

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I agree its not really my thing either but I cant full sustain with brim pot on bosses

#

the 10% loss of eco on brim really hurts the identity for that case

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:19 AM

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pots against flying enemies are very cancer sometimes

#

i wish my character could like

#

throw them harder or something

#

sometimes

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:19 AM

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haughty silo the 10% loss of eco on brim really hurts the identity for that case

it could perhaps be arranged to bump it back to 1, I'll try it out a bit more when I have time

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:20 AM

#

opaque zenith pots against flying enemies are very cancer sometimes

I just let them fly at me and splash the ground or Bomb Them with artillery

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:20 AM

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ye if r1 bosses and stuff had more minions it would be fine but there just isnt lol

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:22 AM

#

anyways another of the planned changes is to make elixir's hitbox 25% bigger and a cylinder with fixed height

#

so that it's more lenient

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:22 AM

#

that will make landing it much better

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:22 AM

#

it might also get a bit of an extra, too

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:22 AM

#

it could use a little duration ye

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:22 AM

#

like a lingering cloud perhaps

#

the duration is fine for now imo

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:23 AM

#

if it lingered that would be fine as well

#

so it helps keep that dura but u gotta refresh once linger ends or u leave the area

ashen shadow Dec 7, 2025, 12:23 AM

#

it would be nice for the ally buff to be 8s as well

#

instead of like half what the alch normally refreshes on

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:23 AM

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ashen shadow it would be nice for the ally buff to be 8s as well

the linger would help that i think

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:24 AM

#

level 2 and enhancement elixirs will get buffs too

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:24 AM

#

I think the enhancement is the only thing that needs some tuneup now I really like the idea of splashing teammates to give yellow hp (I play with friends a lot and enjoy being more support so this enhancement makes it even more fun to kinda pocket them), but its just a lil too weak i think

#

oh perfect

#

ye tbh once the brutal bug was fixed dmg felt much better and the only issues i had were ee being annoying and kinda weak at 2+

I guess also brutal charms being pretty useless atm

#

its like 10 dmg on the explosion since the 65% only boosts the base not the stacks

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:26 AM

#

the main problem with the absorption support from elixir(u) is how absorption works rn in the code, I'm afraid it won't get better than it is rn until that changes

#

since I don't want to allow just stacking infinite absorption

#

I could maybe find a workaround actually, we'll see

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:26 AM

#

lmao fair

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:27 AM

#

ideally it would just go on top of your other sources of absorption

#

but that's not really possible currently

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:29 AM

#

haughty silo ye tbh once the brutal bug was fixed dmg felt much better and the only issues i ...

you were waaay too doom and gloom at the start, lol.
change can be good 🙂

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:29 AM

#

I was lmao I told my friends that too. It was really the brutal bug that put me over the top I didnt realize why I was doing 50% dmg lmao

#

its def way different than before and once I got to see the real output its chill

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:30 AM

#

ok yeah usurper makes this so much nicer
alch really needed that retaliation from elite fights cause it struggles the most with them

#

eh i guess only if you play the way i do but whatever

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:30 AM

#

I'm surprised that brutal dot bug passed testing to be honest, I guess we just got used to getting the brutal dot explosion output and the rest from other skills

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:31 AM

#

opaque zenith ok yeah usurper makes this so much nicer alch really needed that retaliation fr...

usurper is incredibly powerful, especially on a tankier build like mine

#

you can just Keep Going

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:31 AM

#

ye the skills felt fine and I started playing with a lot of apti to use them more. The initial bug was getting like 20-25 dmg explosions in r2 and it was hard to even clear some harder pois with it at first when spells were on cd

#

apti stacking in r2 is extremely fun with the new kit

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:32 AM

#

i wouldn't say it's "powerful" per say in this case

#

it just saves you time

#

you dont have to be a maniac like myself and jump into fights without healing

#

it only gives an actual combat advantage on classes where you'd need to actively disengage from a fight to heal up

#

which is not the case with alch since you can just explode things

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:33 AM

#

Oh I jump into fights alright

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:33 AM

#

yea but you have a build made for that

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:33 AM

#

Drop scorched, tinct, all fueled up

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:33 AM

#

usurper is kind of like sapper (excluding it being used in rush)

#

saves time between encounters

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:34 AM

#

did you eat in your video

#

i dont remember

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:34 AM

#

haughty silo ye the skills felt fine and I started playing with a lot of apti to use them mor...

To put it into perspective: some people don't even run points into brutal

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:34 AM

#

neon wharf did you eat in your video

sometimes yeah
but thats one of the things usurper lets you do less often

#

for vids specifically i go slightly faster than i do normally as well

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:34 AM

#

one thing i notice is that you always strafe towards the next encounter

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:35 AM

#

yeah helps you save time

#

nadir has more or less become my poi of choice since its the shortest one with actual different challenges

#

nice for testing builds quickly

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:35 AM

#

Someone should post some formless gameplay...

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:35 AM

#

the downside is i learned it down to every spawner and its activation range give or take a couple blocks

#

mega pois are cool once in a while but i wish more shorter ones were available like nadir

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:37 AM

#

neon wharf one thing i notice is that you always strafe towards the next encounter

you shouldve seen this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No7TC7Y9M4k&t=18s not embedding as to not flood this chat since its not very related

storm spear Dec 7, 2025, 12:37 AM

#

me when i wanna test a class but the only poi i wanna do is the nadir

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:37 AM

#

i noticed maybe there are some new elementalists

half fog Dec 7, 2025, 12:38 AM

#

I recorded one
But I would like to think myself not all that skilled/optimized
https://youtu.be/No_j_CCwMoE?si=yW02-gc-tIzMOZsN

it’s a little more than just a formless build though

Also audio might be bad I just got new headphones and apparently Bluetooth fucks the audio or something

YouTube

OurStoRi

25/12/4 new alch non optimized (22pts nadir in 13mins)

▶ Play video

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:38 AM

#

that's a bit outdated; null agglomerate is way weaker now

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:38 AM

#

Here we observe the region 3 monumenta player in the wild. Watch as they beeline towards the starpoint teleporter, enter the bellway, and choose either Nadir or Constellation Tower.

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:38 AM

#

LOL

#

me

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:38 AM

#

i have no idea why that many people like ctower

#

it's not a bad poi but idk what's so special about it

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:39 AM

#

there are fun flat-ground encounters

#

that are really heavy

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:39 AM

#

its like very elite pilled

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:39 AM

#

It is cool and right next to a bell makes it more appealing I suppose

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:39 AM

#

and the elites are often in very tight spaces

#

which is............ .... it is.

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:39 AM

#

half fog I recorded one But I would like to think myself not all that skilled/optimized ...

Awesome will watch

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:39 AM

#

i like tolu sometimes

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:39 AM

#

like the entrance to ctower already has a ridiculous encounter

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:39 AM

#

Also Voidrim your clear is invalid, you didn't take the side chest right?: p

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:39 AM

#

midfloor where its like a half circle with trees

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

ctower feels like a minefield whenever i play it, if i walk a few blocks wrong and activate the wrong spawner i immediately implode

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

mild swan Also Voidrim your clear is invalid, you didn't take the side chest right?: p

bleh i cant be bothered

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

and the encounter right before the boss is like huge

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

10s of my life for 2ar

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

thats where you clip farm

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

funnily enough at some point i was not picking up loot when breaking chests during recordings

#

cause idc for the loot, i just broke them for the proof of concept or whatever

neon wharf Dec 7, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

half fog Dec 7, 2025, 12:40 AM

#

I may have skipped some too lol
Never figured out if my route gets all the chests

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:41 AM

#

i only technically skip the final one with the slime over the void

#

the right side one is fully cleared in my route, i just dont grab it

#

whereas for the final one i actually avoid the spawner guarding it

#

fun fact about nadir is you can avoid every elite spawner but two and still clear

#

i learned that when i was recording 1hp

#

saltroll

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:44 AM

#

You should record 1hp fathoms reach

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:44 AM

#

i dont even know what it'd take to make me do that

#

probably things god alone could give me

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:45 AM

#

I think fathom hard counters all my harb builds

#

I might have to make an apoth build just for it

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:45 AM

#

fathom hard counters sane people 🔥

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:46 AM

#

Gonna equip the funny panacea sniper charm

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:46 AM

#

ive been meaning to play around with apoth for a while now

#

panacea has like 200 charms

#

i wonder what you can do with them

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:47 AM

#

is pana supposed to give yourself yellow hp now it never did before and it feels so nice lol

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:47 AM

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psure it always did, no?

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:47 AM

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it did allies not urself

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:47 AM

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Nope

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It gives shield from hitting mobs now

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A max of 6 mobs (not reset by the rebound)

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:48 AM

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new trans ring seems kinda good on paper

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great even

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:48 AM

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its very strong

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all apoth specs got very nice perks

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:49 AM

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remedy seems unchanged

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:49 AM

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it got a status change

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used to give heal eff 10% now its resistance

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kinda big

storm spear Dec 7, 2025, 12:49 AM

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i dropped remedy

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panacea actually provide sufficient absorb for my poise

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really cool

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:49 AM

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you probably really want ring 2

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:49 AM

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but tring def got the real glowup

storm spear Dec 7, 2025, 12:49 AM

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yea

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:50 AM

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and considering panacea 2 is just stat buffs you could probably get remedy without too much of a loss

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:50 AM

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ive been running 121 in r2 and 112 in r3 (just cuz i have coven vial and it makes you immortal)

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:50 AM

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haughty silo used to give heal eff 10% now its resistance

thats lvl 2 which you likely wont have tbh

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 12:50 AM

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with vial its worth but ye

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I dont see using it without vial or in r2 ring2 is just too strong

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:51 AM

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opaque zenith remedy seems unchanged

The absorption radius got buffed from 6 to 12 blocks

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:52 AM

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something something teliko theama razed remnants rune of infiltration

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:52 AM

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Remedy is a "spoonfeed absorption to anyone in a large radius" type of skill and it's quite useful in like world bosses

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 12:52 AM

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which is somehow just 6cp

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ring doesnt seem to have any exceptionally strong charms

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they're both alright but idk

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 12:56 AM

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Alch doesn't really do the "use all your charm power on 1 singular skill" thing

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Also the design space for charms before this rework was terrible, so that's why there are a million panacea charms and little for other stuff

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But this should be fixed by future content releases

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Okay I'm off now, bye

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 1:05 AM

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the fuck

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anyway apoth is. very fucking strong huh

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i just kept half my harb charms and slapped 6cp into panacea

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and the clear speed is criminally close to harb

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it's not quite there but all this survivability...

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well i'm assuming trans ring is getting tuned down sooner or later which is what will make the damage difference make up for all absorption

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but it is quite insane atm

young sandal Dec 7, 2025, 4:38 AM

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Is there anything in the current set geared for single target

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Yea ik the class is aoe, but still, something to help it out

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I m asking since maybe I m building wrong

thorn marsh Dec 7, 2025, 4:46 AM

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VR (u) can stack a good chunk of single target damage but you need to hit 5 other mobs to spread the DoT to the big boss

vast summit Dec 7, 2025, 5:36 AM

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young sandal Is there anything in the current set geared for single target

Vr u does about 400 single target damage at max stacks in r3

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Its not really enough and sometimes hard to trigger but it is something

vast summit Dec 7, 2025, 5:37 AM

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opaque zenith fathom hard counters sane people 🔥

Didnt counter me so you are wrong

haughty silo Dec 7, 2025, 6:15 AM

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young sandal I m asking since maybe I m building wrong

I think the tradeoff of alch should always be terrible single target since the AOE is so nice, that being said there should be things like brim pot that are stronger and geared towards elites, but the kit itself is ok.

In r1 it’s a little tricky rn since brim pot is .9 recharge rate. Because most bosses there don’t have minions it’s really difficult to upkeep with it. In r2 and r3 there’s enough options to refill potions that you can use slower charge pots with more damage or regicide (nihilo and ex brim for examples)

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Recharge rate is extremely limiting in r1 it feels like. I don’t feel like I have enough pot eco on anything besides ec pot there unless im willing to play a little slower and kite with willows pot.

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 9:24 AM

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you gotta play willows pot eco trying to maximize efficiency

half fog Dec 7, 2025, 9:36 AM

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I can see fast charging low radius dps bag being one potential archetype that’s missing
You really can’t do much to a boss that has minimal summons and just runs at you

ashen shadow Dec 7, 2025, 9:37 AM

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mild swan you gotta play willows pot eco trying to maximize efficiency

“when swapping pots your charges are set to zero 🥀 “

half fog Dec 7, 2025, 9:58 AM

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Trading that for a new recharge stat is a w trade though

fair elm Dec 7, 2025, 9:59 AM

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ashen shadow “when swapping pots your charges are set to zero 🥀 “

Be so fr why would that not be a thing

ashen shadow Dec 7, 2025, 9:59 AM

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okay fair

vast summit Dec 7, 2025, 9:59 AM

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fair elm Be so fr why would that not be a thing

So i can swap to fensap to charge formless

fair elm Dec 7, 2025, 9:59 AM

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True thank you fennec!

ashen shadow Dec 7, 2025, 9:59 AM

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uh maybe potion conversion from swapping bags like fensap to formless gives you 4 pots instead of 8

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or 3

vast summit Dec 7, 2025, 10:00 AM

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You are welcome marcy

ashen shadow Dec 7, 2025, 10:00 AM

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idk how much faster it is

vast summit Dec 7, 2025, 10:00 AM

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Its more than double speed

ashen shadow Dec 7, 2025, 10:00 AM

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yeah its a bit cooked

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:24 AM

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half fog I can see fast charging low radius dps bag being one potential archetype that’s ...

(ex)Brimstone feels like it can be turned into this

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Give it 2 rad suffer

half fog Dec 7, 2025, 10:26 AM

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Lowkey that can be fun
Having to be real precise

short meteor Dec 7, 2025, 10:26 AM

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What if swapping bags just gave you the amount of charges you would have in "charge-second" units (which is the real time it took you to get those potion charges, which is automatically standardised across any recharge rate), capped at the amount of charge-seconds equal to your total count.

So say if you have a normal 1 recharge rate bag (recharging every 1.5s) at 6 potions left that would be equal to "9 charge-seconds", then swapping to a slow bag with a recharge rate of 0.5 would recharge every 3s, resulting in 9/3 = 3 potions upon swapping.

In this case as the faster bag caps at 8 potions, the slower half charge speed bag could only ever get 4 potions upon swapping to it. If you waited for the slow bag to charge up to 8 over 24s, then swapping over to any faster bag would immediately put you at 8 because you spent that time charging it.

This system wouldn't punish you with wasted time for charging one bag and then trying to offhand another and keeps it fair across different recharge rates as the charge-seconds units are equal across all bags. There could even be a penalty when swapping if that really needs to be a thing

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:27 AM

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Me using UA on formless then swapping to fast bag for big pot regen

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Or tincture

half fog Dec 7, 2025, 10:27 AM

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Counter point would be any potion recharging abilities
idm it simply sets it to 0 tbh

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:29 AM

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I personally prefer the commitment aspect of this

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:34 AM

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short meteor What if swapping bags just gave you the amount of charges you would have in "cha...

it's very janky and exploitable, plus the effort to code it wouldn't be worth it

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potion recharge code is already complex enough

vast summit Dec 7, 2025, 10:35 AM

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Just make a boss bag exist ngl that solves the issue

short meteor Dec 7, 2025, 10:35 AM

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half fog Counter point would be any potion recharging abilities idm it simply sets it to ...

Yeah all of those would definitely make it break I didn't think that far ahead, hence why there could still be a penalty. Yeah I'm not sure I can think of a nice solution here other than that if you earned "too many" extra, they would be effectively wasted for swapping.

If you were to cast abilities with the slow bag for higher damage and then got up to 8 potions, swapping to the fast pot would give you effectively 16 pots, but because it's capped at 8 you void the bonus ones, and if you decide to swap back to the high damage pot you'd still get it halved to 4.

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:36 AM

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half fog Lowkey that can be fun Having to be real precise

it could be Arranged

short meteor Dec 7, 2025, 10:36 AM

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Maybe it's just completely fine for alch to be different but it does feel at least slightly odd you get so heavily punished for using more than 1 bag. Swapping weapons depending on the situation is a really cool mechanic I use on other classes

fair elm Dec 7, 2025, 10:56 AM

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I can agree though

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:58 AM

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it's unfortunate, but trading dual wielding for a much bigger variety in alch bag functionality was a worthy trade imo

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 1:59 PM

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mild swan it could be Arranged

i have wanted a fastball pot for a while

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like a fucking 1 radius pot with insane proj speed and like 16 damage

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mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 2:05 PM

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Doom

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We'll see for the future, but it seems not suitable for r1

ashen shadow Dec 7, 2025, 2:55 PM

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well yeah

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16 damage is r3 levels

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Is it possible to make alch bags with variable potion caps

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 2:59 PM

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mild swan We'll see for the future, but it seems not suitable for r1

well yeah i was implicating an r3 bag

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this, or an artillery charm

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reduce cost to 1, lock radius at 1, cooldown and bloat the piss out of the damage

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 3:34 PM

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ashen shadow 16 damage is r3 levels

Of course, I was talking about the design

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 3:35 PM

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ashen shadow Is it possible to make alch bags with variable potion caps

It might be, but I don't wanna mess with that at least for now. It doesn't feel necessary

swift stream Dec 7, 2025, 3:59 PM

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I like tincture charges with tincture charms

azure nymph Dec 7, 2025, 4:03 PM

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poise apoth meta

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 4:40 PM

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mild swan It might be, but I don't wanna mess with that at least for now. It doesn't feel ...

probably best to be a charm then

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alch has plenty of aoe options now i think turning artillery into a single target sniper button would be fun

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the exact opposite of brine's

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 5:49 PM

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that'd be funny

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like brines but -cd instead and -radius

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that'd actually be very very nice for alch kit since it lacks single target a ton

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i'd def use that

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 5:54 PM

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^^

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 7:21 PM

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whole citrus alch has plenty of aoe options now i think turning artillery into a single targe...

sniper as in high velocity?

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 7:27 PM

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that could make it funnier

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but its not rly necessary

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 7:27 PM

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mild swan sniper as in high velocity?

it would be way funnier with a high velocity but probably not necessary

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 7:27 PM

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I was experimenting with an anti-air type of artillery during development

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like 50-60 block range type of velocity

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 7:28 PM

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protean glass type beat

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 7:28 PM

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even more with that

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but ultimately it didn't play well with the bouncing because it was on level 2 and you'd just have weird muscle memory too

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but it could fit a charm

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probably less velocity than this but yeah

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 7:29 PM

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the idea is just next to no aoe, high damage, some cdr if you feel generous for christmas

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velocity would give it some flavor not sure if that'd be overstatted

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 7:30 PM

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yeah so you can either snipe a mob far away you dont wanna deal with or chunk an elite hard

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 7:30 PM

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or just literally use it as mediocre, albeit your only, single target dps

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since thats what alch needs the most

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 7:31 PM

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it wouldnt be anything to primarily rely on but it sure would help a lot

opaque zenith Dec 7, 2025, 7:32 PM

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artillery with brines does like 85 or so damage rn

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which is a +50% dmg charm

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not a lot even on a 6s cd

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 7:32 PM

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and if you want to learn some insane shots with belltongue bouncing it 6 times at that high velocity to vaporize something thats up to you

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:04 PM

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Hii, Iam the magical guy that only play magic class and used to only play alch for like 2years!

I would just say as a in nutshell that I really like the rework, I don't feel like Iam wasting my time with mediocre DoT or crownd control with miserable DPS and it is most importantly fun, who doesn't like to boom everythings? So good job on that!

Ok for the feedback, first I will talk about R1 and R2, I don't have much to say, gameplay is mostly the same as it is not flashy but still efficient and better than before and pretty well balanced tbh! No really nothings to say!
For R3 tho.. yea there is some problem. First about bags, rn Fensap is just blatently the best bag in the game, which it was before when you knew what you were doing.. but only 2 mans in existence used it lol. Anyway rn you can just spam it without minding any business and with 2 creepers + portal charm everythings dies with two pot.. and you can spam.. don't ignore Decay 8 with that pot recharge, really you need to fix this asap, any build that don't use it just nerf them! Also it makes the honestly required 2star +10% recharge useless for it so with those 2 stars you can add more damage..
Then since I talk about it yes the 2star +10% potion recharge is just mandatory, if you are not using it with bag at 1.1 or lower you are throwing.. same for that +20% radius charm, just every build should use it, and this means every build has 4star less to use.. I honestly would prefer just a little buff to base alch kit radius and potion recharge than having those two just be here and be bis and mandatory, it kills diversity.
Then the big hitter, Volatile is op, how did this pass testing I swear, first it's far too loud please lower a bit the sound it makes, yes it is satisfaying, but still too loud. Anyway the main problem is that it kills everythings far too efficiently even without boosting it.. so I did a lot of max delve with all out on tank gear and just throwing the volatile into grusome then brutal..

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Everything died

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Just far too op, and even elite dont stand a chance with up to 800hp

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Because the dot lvl 3 + Decay with fensap + boost from charm and the fact that they take so much explosion damage because yea now everythings explode when their is mobs nearby that they don't even survive.. and if they survive just make them explose with 3 pots and your infinite pot yield thanks to fensap!

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Also yea primeval, for those that are unaware is just a straight buff, you don't care about the first explosion because that where you apply the gruesome for vulnerability and such then do the juicy damage with the brutal and with just that one damage charm well you have the best nuke of the game that can go upward to 1000-3000damages easily..

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For the good stuff tho, I like the fact that réflexe became really fricking good with Alch now that you can spam more potion (even without talking about fensap)

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 10:08 PM

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*please do note this does not mean to exclusively nerf fensap, the other bags should go up as well

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:10 PM

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The tincture buff is awesome to make it both great at refilling and giving abso which also makes tabooless harb use poise or just be more tanky in general!
Creepers are just good and fun
Earth while being a nerf in group dps is far better as solo and to clear specially with the inexistant cd when you clear, into every encounter you have one earth if you play well with your ressources

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:11 PM

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whole citrus *please do note this does not mean to exclusively nerf fensap, the other bags sh...

Well no. I disagree, because the others bag are already strong enough and fensap is just blatently overpowered

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 10:11 PM

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there are a couple stinkers in there

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:11 PM

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I did a lot of testing even without fensap and it is perfectly fine

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I can show you like 30+ build I did test in max point delve etc.. everyone of them was great to use and not blatently overpowered as fensap

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The only one I find pretty bad is the max damage but low potion recharge one (zenith I thinks?)

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Doesn't do much more since everything dies anyway and it is just a nerf for clear or DPS..

whole citrus Dec 7, 2025, 10:13 PM

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i think the problem might be fensaps way easier to use to all of us slowly getting used to the class being new due to its insane recharge
as you get used to it you can abuse the 1.3/s regen more and more

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:15 PM

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Yea I got far more experience than pretty much everyone else honestly as alch, so not to say Iam better or anythings, but I understand the class far more than the average player as for their breakpoint and such, and the only new things to me was volatile which is just swap for me. Potion recharge barely matter to me since the zenith potion was pretty much the base speed we've had this whole time

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So having more potion is just a buff for me lol

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:17 PM

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I personally disagree that the Bottled Infinity charm is required on other bags, there are a lot of ways to either get better potion eco, or more efficiently using your potions

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it's certainly nice if you don't want to worry about that aspect of gameplay as much, though

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:17 PM

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It is just better to spam potion because of how dot explode at 3 brutal

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:18 PM

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I didn't expect fensap to perform this well to be honest, decay 8 shouldn't really do much in region 3 I thought

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:18 PM

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So having more pot = more DPS and just easier to play anyway

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:18 PM

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past matrix It is just better to spam potion because of how dot explode at 3 brutal

Brutal maxing is A Playstyle and that's fine I think, there are a lot of different playstyles you can do now

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:18 PM

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Do you even need that many pots? I run shadebound or like 1 rr pots seems to do fine for me outside poi bosses and sometimes twisted if I start the encounter without full reserve

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Maybe it's because I don't run AA

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:18 PM

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Oh also I forgot to talk about it but dot charm absolutly SUCK, clearly need a buff

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:19 PM

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cloud magnet Do you even need that many pots? I run shadebound or like 1 rr pots seems to do ...

You don't need it, it is just mathematically better

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For DPS, for qol for anythings really

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But being able to just all out spam potion to kill something in 1 nanosec is just pleasant

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:20 PM

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I dislike fensap since its lower base mean abilities are "less effective"

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:20 PM

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Still far too effective dw

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Blatently overkill still lmao

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But the Decay actually make it better DPS wise anywqy

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:21 PM

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Well since I don't use it I won't give opinions on it, seems extremely popular rn but we'll see

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:21 PM

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how much magic damage is in your build?

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:21 PM

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And have we talked about that it give speed? It's not much but 15% speed is really usefull

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:21 PM

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It's definitely easy to use

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Yeah the speed seems super nice

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:21 PM

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mild swan how much magic damage is in your build?

Usually 0-50% with maybe trivium 2/3

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I did try with bis damage too

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Having not a lot of magic damage is actually fine for R3 alch

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It does enough anyway with 0 damage

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:22 PM

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I agree with that and it's nice for a change

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:22 PM

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I one shot encounter with 0% magic damage in max point delve.. why would you need even more damage

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:23 PM

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with volatile, right?

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:23 PM

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Primeval scale?

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:23 PM

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Only cool for boss and some random elite

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:24 PM

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Something something max pts mob density I suppose

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:24 PM

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yeah

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:25 PM

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mild swan with volatile, right?

Volatile -> gruesome + brutal, usually take 0.7sec to kill everythings in one go
Scortched earth -> gruesome into brutal usually kill everythings too, creepers finished if not
Gruesome + brutal into 2 creepers with at minimum 18% kill everythings up to 260hp which is all random mob pretty much
Etc.. etc..

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Their is a lot of combo that just instant kill mobs

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All build used primeval yes because it is just bis for now like overflask and pot recharge one.

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Otherwise some used earth/creepers/panacea etc.. charm

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:26 PM

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cloud magnet Something something max pts mob density I suppose

I also did try in random instance with minimal point like 6 up to 25, the usual you would go and well everything dies anyway since yea less mobs but far less stats and so less hp

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They still dies easily but yea legionnary is actually a buff for alch tbh

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Take that shit!

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:27 PM

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it's crazy how much damage a small 10% aoe does

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I guess it's a byproduct of region 3 being... what it is

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:27 PM

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I think it's the brutal ticks

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:27 PM

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Well it's not 10%

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Dont forget that their is two explosion..

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:28 PM

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right, do you run brutal 2?

mild swan Dec 7, 2025, 10:28 PM

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past matrix Dont forget that their is two explosion..

yea, true

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:28 PM

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And the second can have the vulnerability of the gruesome

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And then all the dot + maybe creepers if harb or earth damage or ring damage etc..

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+enchant

cloud magnet Dec 7, 2025, 10:28 PM

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The fact that VR is usually mass brutal detonation is something

past matrix Dec 7, 2025, 10:28 PM

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That goes high really quick

#4th Dec Alchemist Rework Feedback Thread