Seraph Feedback Thread

[mystic lantern]

Not too fond of them

[plush stone]

I could maybe just do link to paste bin next time 🤔

little easier to sort things there and it does not wall of text

[forest lion]

Erm
Do you know you can do all the markdown stuff like titles bold italic and bullet points

discord was not just designed for one liners

[swift lava]

it's pretty cool

[amber sequoia]

Also, as boon is limited to 8s/6s per boon, i think its pretty necessary to make it smarter- it should give the effects you don’t have, or if you have all, give the one that has the least remaining duration

[reef oak]

-# indeed

[mystic lantern]

In the near future the devs ( xernial) have talked about reworking rain and it’s on the list so it’s less boring and not just a dr stick, I think sanc armor is In a perfect place rn though, on my squishier builds it saves me when im low and allows me to heal up and be slightly more tanker for a little bit and on my tankier sets when I play paladin it’s on so wonderful, it’s kinda always providing value

[plush stone]

the design feels hard to salvage, since boon itself can have its cooldown reduced I don't theres any numbers for it that would be fair. Like Neuron made it a nearly 3 seconds CDR per activation which was just completely insane and was a must use on the class; but putting it down to 0.75 seconds makes it rather mediocre. What could a middle ground be and is it reasonable for an enhancement to effect your whole kit to much? Transcendental combos comes to mind as something very similiar, that enhance is so good that I think not using it is just throwing; it almost reduces all of your rouge cd by 1 second and also is free damage boost.

[swift lava]

what do people think about sanc 2's duration extension via elite killing? i dont really find it that useful solo but idk

[amber sequoia]

Like boon 2 is supposed to make be able to gain all boon buffs at once but if you keep dropping me same effect what will it make use

[mystic lantern]

I am gonna hard disagree on the beam stuff though, it can do above 100 without pious and design wise I don’t think it needs to be a 10000 damage ability? It functions well how it is currently, being able to stun mobs and provide healing and resistance (l2) to allies

[plush stone]

I feel like boon U could do something new like, like making it give higher quality buffs or providing new buffs (like new potions that it drops)

the resistance part of beam is for flavor, its very inconsequential in gameplay (unless you run a gimmick charm, but here we go again with charms)

[mystic lantern]

I don’t think trying to push beam into a damage roll like qd is healthy (and qd is already a very unhealthy ability honestly)

That’s basically what old beam was

It was stat stick with the charms to get to that point

It’s a ranged healing tool with mild cc that does a fair chunk of damage

[mystic lantern]

It doing something new would be cute

[plush stone]

The thing is I feel that the class needs burst damage much more then it needs this swiss army knife tool.

I need to kill the enderman dread who is currently running faster then my ethereal accession and does 80 damage melees RIGHT NOW or I will die; but beam is only barely doing enough damage even with the super charm.

[mystic lantern]

Not really?

[forest lion]

I think the class does need it for clear but if not then that could just be a designed weakness
It’s the support spec of cleric after all

[mystic lantern]

If anything in the long run pious can be removed and beam can maybe get a little bit of damage to compensate?

If im being real I just don’t think im seeing it the same as you are?

The struggles you’re having I don’t really I guess have

[plush stone]

well i view beam as my primary attack and am disappointed that it underpreforms (especially in r2)

[formal sable]

from my pov, my issue with beam is that you're forced to either use pious and have no range stopping it from being a good supporting tool or cover lack or long range options in the kit, or not use it and do way less damage than it was before. Either be full support and struggle more solo, or have a mid ability on a 30s cd mostly only good for being a marking tool

[mystic lantern]

(This is coming from me who like exclusively runs 70+ slop whenever I play)

[viscid tapir]

i mean "need" is subjective here because from what i've heard it's much more of a solo clear capable spec than hierophant was (take this with a grain of salt because i was never a hiero player)

[mystic lantern]

The range is kinda fake on pious I’m ngl LOL

[viscid tapir]

i dont know if "need" is the right word

[mystic lantern]

^^

[viscid tapir]

like sure it would be a better clearer if it had more burst damage and more this and that

but this is still the more support-y spec of the support class

[formal sable]

wdym

[mystic lantern]

If you’re not sticking right on your teammates in the first place you might already have a problem

Unless for some reason you’re like sniper maxxing from 32 blocks away

With wota or aleph

[plush stone]

It is better then hierophant since it went from having 1 ability, to having 1 and like 3/4 quarters of an ability, despite everything it is an improvement over the old class.

[mystic lantern]

It’s been stressed this multiple time’s but like,,, meow :3

[viscid tapir]

meow -w-

[mystic lantern]

And again for the record, by no means am I saying seraph is perfect

It def needs a good chunk of qol and some buffs

I just think beam is perfect how it is

[amber sequoia]

Beam deals 100+ on my build with a vaild ehp

no charms

[formal sable]

i mean this might be a me specific issue then, im a pretty casual player and like to play melee, im usually duo w a ranged scout so we play together but often outside of eachothers range. The range from hallowed beam is smth I really appreciate in my gameplay. It's also nice in certain bossfights or if I happen to get split from my teammates

[plush stone]

I do rely heavily on beam in gameplay, since its the best way to deal with mobs that leap into your face and is your only single target damage you have for tormenteds. Thats why I saw the class needs the burst damage, since it is inflexible and wants to have this mini get out of jail free card. But the skill still under preforms compared to alternatives and just because you depend on it to survive it does not mean the skill is good.

the best thing beam has going for it is just that its a frame 1 attack thats hit scan, you can just throw 3 beams at the enemies who all dashed at you which is strong in its own right but with the other 2 abilities also under preforming its hard not to ask for more out of it.

[mystic lantern]

Wait are you playing melee seraph?

[amber sequoia]

makes beam sidearm mechanic and seraph will finally be good on clearing

[swift lava]

isn't is reasonable for the support spec to struggle a bit against tormenteds which are balanced around team play in the first place?

[mystic lantern]

^^

[amber sequoia]

they are both hitscan i think it would be really cool

[plush stone]

Like in r2 beam just does less damage then luminous infusion despite the fact that its a single target abil vs aoe abil.

my single target skill SHOULD be better then my not single target skill I feel

especially when they are on the same class

[viscid tapir]

i mean thats because its not primarily a single target skill

[forest lion]

But then your offensive spec should deal more damage than your support spec

[viscid tapir]

its primarily a healing skill

again, healing first damage second

[mystic lantern]

The 2nd point is honestly valid, but I will disagree again you don’t really need pious I’m also getting over 100 beams without the charm

[formal sable]

yea I tried paladin the other day but I just enjoy having an extra healing option, having beam is also just rlly nice for my own survivability even if I could have more single target dps w paladin. cc is really nice

[mystic lantern]

I think that’s really awesome I love melee seraph and I played a lot of melee hiero before hand, what build are you running?

[formal sable]

difference is probably im not fully spec'd into magic damage so beam feels kinda weak for me without it

[mystic lantern]

Can I see your build? Just out of curiosity do I can compare with other players

[plush stone]

whats wrong with it being both a healing and damage skill? spec abilities are supposed to be strong and the class should not be underpowered in solo play since other support specs at not underpowered by themselves (expect apoth but thats only a recent thing). I could accept beam being primarily a healing tool if the allay it can heal was better but thats not the case ether (beam does more damage then allay gets out of being healed)

[forest lion]

Well
You design a skill with its identity and you stick to that identity

[plush stone]

also like monumenta is mainly a solo game so support classes need to be strong for people to even consider playing them. You can just run off on your own as like beserker even in group content

[swift lava]

hard disagree for monu being a mainly solo game

[mystic lantern]

yeah was gonna say LMAO

[plush stone]

I mean its balanced around being played solo and theres much more content intended to be done solo then as in a group

[plush stone]

and i'm not pulling up with seraph in an r2 strike so the amount of multiplayer content I want to play seraph in right now is like, maybe a hunts boss.

[swift lava]

you bring up a good point for beaming the virtue, i think the margin between the damage/healing that beaming a target directly vs beaming virtue is a bit small so i think some buffing could certainly be done there

[formal sable]

sometimes i swap pieces for more magic prot depending on content

Monumenta Builder

@mystic lantern

[formal sable]

my reply didnt work my b

[mystic lantern]

true though

[plush stone]

expect the allay spoils in hunt boss

[forest lion]

As much as I’m more solo player
It’s more group than solo I think
It is balanced around solo but it is not JUST around solo
There’s much more content exclusively for group than exclusively for solo

[mystic lantern]

at the moment virtue is def not as strong as i think it should be

the vuln is nice but you have to invest 2 skill points into it

[plush stone]

ya, beam could maybe stay similar to what it is now if you just made virtue and ascension better

[mystic lantern]

if it got buffed damage wise that could be cool

[plush stone]

beam is doing all of the heavy lifting but it cannot carry the weight

[mystic lantern]

oh neat kk so just half and half

razzial isnt too bad for meraph because it can beam since its a projectile weapon

or firecoral lance thingy from r2

[plush stone]

the tormented comment is fair, since torms are a very very centralizing delve modifier and do warp the meta a lot. I think seraph acutally does better then average vs them at least in r3; mostly thanks to many of them not having much range (although the ones that can close the gap can really crush you)

at the same time though, it does feel unfair to just dismiss torms when talking about delves (cuz lets face it twisteds arent doing anything even to seraph)

[mystic lantern]

beam performs quite well already against tormenteds and twisteds

[plush stone]

beam is fine vs them ya, although I was doing much much better with fractured warp drive and I wonder how much worse it gets without that charm letting you cycle C bless and beam better (warp drive just gives you an extra beam).

[forest lion]

I think the main disagreement here is the standard
Lots of things boils down to just “I think it’s fair” vs “I think it’s unfair” and “I think the damage is enough” vs “I think the damage is too low”

[formal sable]

i haven't gotten the chance to mess w it yet but I was thinking of trying it out yea, and firecoral lance is my main wep on r2 lol

[mystic lantern]

yarp

also not yarp

theres a bunch of things i can agree with it

it mostly just boils down to beam

[formal sable]

beam probably wouldn't feel as bad if it didn't feel like seraphs only good ability, it might be fine w a more balanced kit

[swift lava]

if we're speaking about general feelings n vibes of the class, i don't play much higher pt content (im just not like that :( ) but the feeling that ascension gives when you can just machine gun on a horde of enemies while flying is just 😍 😍

the bonus of also having a little buddy who is also flying around hurling magic bolts like a little winged gremlin is also too cool, it would be amazing if my flying 3 year old started throwing spanners instead of sticks though

[mystic lantern]

Yeah :3 the fantasy is there

After qol changes with asc and buffs for some of the abilties I think Seraph will be in a good place

[swift lava]

yeah i absolutely love the concept the class is going for

[plush stone]

ya it kinda is a lot of that tbh

[mystic lantern]

I’d like to think there was some agreeance x3

[plush stone]

I guess to say my opinion in just numbers. I want hallowed beam to be able to kill normal enemies with average HP in one shot. That feels reasonable for a single target spec skill to me. So like in r3 that means beam doing roughly 70 damage and in r3 like 165.

I think its fine for it to take multiple beams to kill tankier enemies, in my head it being able to kill normal foes puts it at a nice sweet spot

others think that the skill being multi purpose makes it useful enough, which like is fair I just am expecting more out of my primary attack thats all really.

[plush stone]

in my head I am viewing dungeons as solo content that has optional multiplayer. Which is most of the server. Its fair if you disagree thats just how I always viewed things

for me multiplayer content is stuff that requires or gets close to forcing a group (like strike, world boss, depths)

[forest lion]

Sure I mean I also mostly play dungeon solo it’s just
Developers develops the game so if they say it’s grouped it’s grouped yk
There’s no subjectivity on the non dev side

[unique cradle]

in my experience, if it happens, it happens, but I don't find myself noticing it unless I manage to killstreak four elites

[mystic lantern]

Oh sorry forgot to respond to that

Yeah what sushi said

Highly situational in use

[unique cradle]

how are people feeling about sanct (u) personally I think it needs something but then again I'm not exactly the target audience

[mystic lantern]

I mean it sounds cute on paper

I use it but it’s not something I’ve really pay attention too?

[unique cradle]

i think this is your problem then
beam is a backup/get off me/burst damage/burst healing tool not a main attack

[plush stone]

I mean if it does like 8 things does it not make it my main move?

[unique cradle]

nnnooooo.

[plush stone]

like its the hallowed beam class

[unique cradle]

it makes it versatile but also limited in how you use it

if you start beaming mobs everywhere and then don't have it for when something rushes you, that's on you

[plush stone]

by main I just mean what your class is focused around (like how deadly ronde is swordsages main attack, or decaying totem is hexbreakers main attack)

[unique cradle]

yeah I would not call that a "main move"

it is a 10s cooldown single target - if you mean to tell me that a class can function with that as its "main move" in clearing, i point to warlock which doesn't work with a 10s cooldown aoe attack

your main move is, realistically, dj and projectiles

as well as whatever spells you pick up from base class

[plush stone]

its pretty solid tbh, it heals a lot of HP if the attack that set you into range was strong. It acutally gets much better on high points then it is on low point gameplay since its % based. It is better on pala then seraph though.

I was using C bless U, justice U, sanctified U and it felt fine

also tried hand of light U, makes the skill very easy to use but kinda bad solo (since much of the benefit is improving the healing part of the spell)

[plush stone]

I mean ya when you put it that way having hallowed beam as your main move is kinda sad. but like it was always going to be the main move since the other 2 abilties are long cool down or sudo passive.

I guess its fair to say that divine justice is your real main move, since thats true on paladin as well.

[formal sable]

i mean the class spec abilities are supposed to be what you build around and define your playstyle, and when the only one that feels good to use/powerful sometimes is beam, i dont see the issue w thinking of it as yr main ability

[viscid tapir]

i wouldnt really call any ability your "main move" because seraph isnt really a full caster class

your main move is the projectiles you're shooting

and dj yeah

[unique cradle]

well if you do your view of the class is inherently flawed

[viscid tapir]

idk if oneshotting fodder mobs with a beam is really something that should be the target / balanced around

esp if youre talking about oneshotting mobs at 70pt

[unique cradle]

that's like saying the main spec ability of hunter is pstrike

[viscid tapir]

i mean we do now live in a world where origin of void is a thing

but yeah

idk if you can really say any ability on any class is a main move like that

except like razor

[formal sable]

kinda fair but its semantics idk its still your main seraph ability atm it should feel powerful and versatile as it is, maybe not as much if other changes are made

[fathom pagoda]

would mage have any main move

[plush stone]

for comparisons sake divine justice in r2 does 70 damage, I was asking for beam to be at least equal to divine justice, rather then being almost half as strong

[unique cradle]

mage's main move is omen

and espirits

[fathom pagoda]

real..

[unique cradle]

is that JUST divine justice? or is it crit + divine jutsice

[plush stone]

crit + justice of course

[unique cradle]

okay well what's only justice

[plush stone]

justice is like 30 of that damage, not sure why I would not count the 40 damage trident too since its being used at the same time

[unique cradle]

well I do think that 25 base magic damage is more than that

either way - it's really not supposed to be your main source of damage or clear

it is very much built as a supplementary focused attack

[plush stone]

I dont think it could ever turn into your main damage source even if it was stronger since its limited to single target.

[unique cradle]

if you want three charges of a strong aoe attack with a shorter cooldown, luminous is right there

[unique cradle]

well then it's not your main move

[plush stone]

no my main move can be not my main damage source, it just means the main move is bad 😭

[unique cradle]

okay let's say it hypothetically gets 3000 damage - could you reliably clear with just beam? is it your "main move" now?

[slate arch]

yea just punch with enigma

[plush stone]

but like what I really mean is that that hallowed beam seems to be the primary focus of the class, I didnt really want to debate what exactly I meant by main attack.

[unique cradle]

yeah - and I don't think it is the main focus, lol

[plush stone]

well right now it very much is the focus for better or for worse

[unique cradle]

its just the thing you're used to, and coincidentally, you're also used to it having a 6s cooldown with double damage

[plush stone]

you could maybe rework virtue into being the focus instead, but ascension could never be the focus since its an ultimate style of ability. I would not hate to see virtue get the spot light instead if it was done right though.

[slate arch]

im personally remembering it having 4s cd with triple damage

good times

[mystic lantern]

It was 6 seconds

[unique cradle]

i still don't even think it's the focus! it's just the thing that you're focus on

[slate arch]

not if you go a bit further back

[mystic lantern]

Unless full Beam stacking

Which was like the reason why they changed it because it was unhealthy

[slate arch]

i mean

[unique cradle]

none of seraph's skills are the cornerstone of its clearing gameplay

[slate arch]

it still didnt have good clear

[unique cradle]

they're all half support with the ability to do some damage

[slate arch]

it was just funny 750x3 burst if you use every buff in game

[unique cradle]

expecting it to have some form of amazing solo clear is just, not it - you would get that from the base class, or, picking the spec that is intended to get damage and clearing potential instead of the support spec with small burst capabilities

[slate arch]

thats true

but why paladin is better at support

[plush stone]

it doesent have to become the new best class, it just needs a reason to be played or it will always be in paladin's shadow.

seraph lacks anything that is particularly powerful currently

[slate arch]

it also would be nice if i could adapt it from support to solo play with charms

[plush stone]

even if the class is never meta, if it has some things it talented at there is a least a reason to consider choosing it

like apothecary has genuine reasons to pick it over harbinger even in solo

i'd argue harbinger is the better class overall but apothecary does not exist for nothing

[unique cradle]

mostly because one of its main draws is a high uptime high vulnerability debuff

seraph has a permanent uptime vulnerability debuff but it's 1. not aoe and 2. tied to putting two points into virtue

there's also that "it can clear better" but to be honest that's kind of a false argument; a lot of specs can clear better than a support class, but you're not really supporting you're just playing normally then

[plush stone]

the thing is playing normally is often just better then playing a support class

since the best way to help the team is to kill stuff

so support needs to be strong to run even if your goal is to be a team player

[mystic lantern]

This point fucking sucks I’m so sorry

[mystic lantern]

What did you have in mind?

[plush stone]

but the game is about clearing things?\

[mystic lantern]

Also like asc and virtue are do for buffs iirc

[slate arch]

mostly the -healing +dmg/+cd whatever charms

also i would like to mention wisteria again because i think the idea is there but its a bit undercooked

[mystic lantern]

Yeah concurred

[slate arch]

i believe it would function better if it had maybe even more damage lost but cooldown reduced

[mystic lantern]

Hmmmm

[unique cradle]

oh god welcome back -5000% cooldown beam

[slate arch]

so its more efficient as a marking tool for you to explode enemies

[unique cradle]

0% damage beam charm could be funny maybe

[slate arch]

it could be zero

[mystic lantern]

They should make beam not knock back anymore either

That would be really funny

[slate arch]

maybe

[slate arch]

yes but again pala can just do both

even funnier that it can do it with same skill

[mystic lantern]

Yeah I think

That’s Kinda soon

Doom*

Virtue is really nice for healing though

I think

[plush stone]

clensing totem from temu

[mystic lantern]

We don’t talk about shaman

[slate arch]

its okay for healing

[mystic lantern]

Anyways

[slate arch]

just dont try to damage with it

[plush stone]

its like fine, I do wish it had better ai for healing though (like I said before, it should always heal regardless of HP when I switch it into heal mode)

I hate seeing my 61% hp teammate not being healed

[mystic lantern]

I think if virtue got vuln lvl 1 and increased damage and more vuln on 2 it would make it a higher source of single target vuln

I also agree it’s kinda doom in solo

It def should get way more damage in general

[plush stone]

vurn is kinda over saturated in this game, I'd rather it just do more damage and no vurn personally

[slate arch]

honestly if you have a scout in like

vicinity

35% vuln in 24 blocks to every mob

[mystic lantern]

The threshold should be raised imo

[plush stone]

that works too, or just threshold increase while in heal mode

[mystic lantern]

True but also it is quite potent In healing (despite the threshold thing)

I think more damage will save it

[slate arch]

more damage saves everything trust

[mystic lantern]

I mean yeah you say that but it would help it out quite a bit

I’m spitballing here but the virtue is quite weak

[slate arch]

its only half ironic really

my gameplay on seraph was just

i have bar of skills longer than my screen

none of them kill

they do each moderate damage and i already forgot trigger for half of them

my main attack (shooting) doesnt do much either and i for some reason can choose to do even less

yet i also dont die because theres just healing and resistance

its as if im trying to fight off enemies with stern look when they throw canned peas at me back

[tough vector]

[high quest]

isn't that just kinda how it is for support type classes trying to play solo

[tough vector]

If I see one more support spec mention I will start killing

Just vecause it's support doesn't mean it can't get shit
Look at old Hierophant

[forest lion]

It’s valid though idk

[high quest]

maybe i was playing old hiero wrong but i distinctly remember old hiero having like fuckall for aoe on its own, i had to eat 6 cp on hailstone and geas and build mostly magic, murdering my single target dps during downtime

and it's not like that's necessarily an issue with it being a support oriented class that is the problem here

a lot of charms do the "trade away your support capabilites to boost your offensive capabilities" thing, except you have both limited charm power and limited charm slots and they tend to also tack on a fairly hefty charm cost just to do said trade

[mystic lantern]

I’m having a different experience then others I can clear quite well

I’m also using vase though

Sooo

[tough vector]

Again, seraph needs better and. Heaper charms

[mystic lantern]

I’m gonna record a vid sometime

#videos-and-streams message
here’s one of my clears with vase

I will do another one without vase when I feel like it

[high quest]

support should have a cost imo, otherwise if you can nuke/dps just as good as other classes while also being able to buff the whole party simultaneously, wtf is the point of other classes even?

My issue here is that you can trade away the support, but the reward isn't justifying the cost of doing so

[viscid tapir]

i'm curious to know what builds people are using because it made a world of difference for me switching from uurik's to ian's

[high quest]

but i could also just be building it wrong too, it's only been out for a week after all

[viscid tapir]

started clearing at pretty quick speeds with no infusions and little experience

(and neuron but i'm stupid and cast ascension only like once every five minutes anyway)

[high quest]

the newness of the subclass also means some of the problems are being compounded by little quirks or edge cases that got missed or need to be ironed out making things worse then they'd be in a vacuum

I would prefer that we get two "balance" patches, a "fix the problems/bugs that aren't intended or were a result of things not going to plan" patch and then a 2nd one a few weeks later to actually look at fine tuning numbers balance

[tough vector]

I try to tell myself to cast it but I forget
Not a fan of trading my dmg for pitiful aoe

[viscid tapir]

it's not that pitiful i'll be honest

[tough vector]

Ima be honest the class might die out by that time lol
Or people will just accept the mediocrity
(Or hyper low keeper numbers)

[slate arch]

yes when i equipped vase and scopo my clear sped up by like 40%

[high quest]

also uh we have a lot of keys now

[slate arch]

but i really doubt vase gonna live long

[viscid tapir]

oh no i'm trading like 15% of my damage in exchange for hitting like 3 mobs per shot! terrifying

[slate arch]

and its not like it was seraph

[high quest]

i'm fine with that ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tough vector]

Ok fair it clears dreadlings.

As long as the dreadnaught doesn't touch me (I die)

[viscid tapir]

drop your build

[tough vector]

But so does Illuminate + HoL
At which point why use ability with 28s cooldown

[high quest]

that's just the normal state of affairs for a volunteer run project with limited dev and QA time available

[viscid tapir]

it's also really not that difficult to keep your distance

[tough vector]

It's funnier because when I read that it refunds cooldown if ended earlier I expected like 1:3 or 1:2 ratio
Not 1:1
Which means no matter what you HAVE that 28s cd

[viscid tapir]

if you cast ascension every time you see an elite that you want to stay away from... don't really know what to say

[tough vector]

Do you main supports in other games?

[mystic lantern]

Yeah that’s why I included that disclaimer x3

[tough vector]

Theres this well known saying that
"Support will always get stuck on the dumbest of geometry and die"

This is the case with ascension especially, the bopping motion as cool as it is just makes you 3 blocks fat, and any elevation change just plumets you down

[mystic lantern]

I’ll do an actual clear with mavros later

[tough vector]

Does multishot even affect the orbs

[mystic lantern]

Yes

Why would it not

[tough vector]

Oh wait it shoots 3 at once?!

[viscid tapir]

this is why you, like i said, don't cast ascension when you're trying to keep your distance

whittle the elite down for a bit and then cast ascension

[mystic lantern]

I’m just using mavros because it’s aura 😼

[high quest]

the orbs are unconditional, any and all projectiles work

this includes ones that don't do damage

[amber sequoia]

Vase is like Oniero when it comes out, being so busted

[tough vector]

Things catch up to you.
Or like certain enemy showed me
They pull you to them

[amber sequoia]

And will be shot on 4-6 base

[modern lark]

Fake aura

[tough vector]

No pc access rn

[modern lark]

https://tenor.com/view/happycadogt-gif-gif-4081776604872093831

[viscid tapir]

plenty of ways to get out of a bad situation

[high quest]

if you wanna see some funny, grab the snowball launcher from winter event and set it to 6 firerate mode and shoot at stuff

[viscid tapir]

the clear has been pretty fine for me

[tough vector]

Yes but I have hrimnir

[high quest]

you will do nearly no dmg, given the iframes still exist, but it's still really fun watching the orbs shoot out at machinegun speeds

[mystic lantern]

dude i'll turn you into mush

[tough vector]

BEHOLD, THE POWER OF AN ANGEL

[mystic lantern]

also qol for asc is already confirmed

iirc it was less bobbing, one more block of height and other stuff i think

xernial said that in this thread iirc,,,

[modern lark]

Can we not spread bugs 🥀

[viscid tapir]

i'm sensing a pattern of "here's a solution" "but that solution doesn't work for me because i make deliberate decisions that make the gameplay worse"

[tough vector]

It's a feature, trust

[high quest]

...can this really be considered a bug?

[viscid tapir]

if hrimnir is difficult to get out of situations with then maybe dont use hrimnir?

[modern lark]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/718659850065936425/1336148049549987943/ezgif.com-animated-gif-maker_11.gif

[modern lark]

Unintentional behavior

[tough vector]

I said I have it because it gets me out of them
Not everyone has hrimnir, so judging entire skill's escape capability on a season pass arti is dumb

The only other option is to waste your charged crossbow or Hbeam with recoil

[modern lark]

Ascension relying on recoil is dubious and will be addressed

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551064643423043588/1275611062619869306/6C9A8A0F-6E8E-336F-E83E-6EFE17AA3879.gif

[high quest]

it is literally a snowball weapon, in the game, that is tiered, shows up in the API, has a visible throw rate stat that also shows up in the API, and doesn't bypass the 0.5s dmg cd

[viscid tapir]

"waste your charged crossbow"

me when i would rather die in ascension and complain about the skill than shoot my charged crossbow

this is just made up complaints atp

[high quest]

if you want something that actually steps into being a bug, vanilla snowballs work and have unlimited firerate and aren't even classified as weapons or have stats and consume no ammo while in ascension mode
they still respect iframes

[tough vector]

sure, you can backpedal while dreadnaught of sorrow munches on you

idm, you do you

if it at least inherited your speed I wouldn't complain but that movement is just a whole new game on it's own

[reef oak]

infinite throwrate

[high quest]

true

[amber sequoia]

[tough vector]

Wisteria might want a buff, like, actually.
it overall decreases your damage no matter what
In raw comparisions of a melee bow whack, the numbers are:
117 - Swift Sacrosant Charm
92 - Wisteria
154 - Prism + wisteri
171 - Prism

Hell, it's so garbage equiping Bloodpact pendant and criting (1cp vs 2cp) with bow STILL makes you deal more damage at 120

I'd suggest either giving it extra radius to add to that "your aoe blast is better than the beam damage" or just giving it more damage or making it 1cp like other transformation charms

or I entirely missunderstood the charm, who knows

[light kayak]

we've been told it's getting buffed yeah

[tough vector]

ah alright

hard to keep track of all the messages here

a pin with planned changes would be nice

[rose atlas]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1353003216089907331/1404749169939447838/caption-3-1.gif

[radiant isle]

This is probably what's gonna happen

There's some virtue AI stuff to fix and maybe just maybe I can look at ascension flight in time

[rose atlas]

is there a possibility for inf uptime for ascension, by using charms in the near future?

[forest lion]

Due to how thurible is infinite
We’d probably need to axe all buffs ascension gives for that to happen

[mystic lantern]

No

LMAO

Like we don’t need thurible 2

[rose atlas]

After the ascension fixs up, i'd honestly liked to see the buffs removed and have the flight movement just for general movement

with charms of course

[short adder]

the support spec wit no support

[rose atlas]

fairy builds

[reef oak]

-1000 or locked buff duration and +20s flight dura or smt

[short adder]

sounds like a bad idea even for a charm because like

no downside when solo lol

[rose atlas]

well, is that a issue?

[reef oak]

well there can be dmg nerfs ofc

cleric is no stranger to -heal +dmg charms that have no downside solo

[short adder]

This just isn't true

They either have another, typically more important downside or is for beam

Which reducing your heals on beam hurts virtue healing

[reef oak]

#-100 buff duration
+20 ascension duration
-50% dmg or smt

[short adder]

permanent uptime ascension is just cleric earrows with levitation

[reef oak]

true

[short adder]

the nefarious charm that significantly reduces your damage permanently

this ability was never meant to be an always-active passive

[rose atlas]

that is true, but it could give more options to it then just healing or magic dmg

[forest lion]

I’m open to the idea of perma flight charm but opinions right now does not come close to making it happen
At least no convincing arguments are made to make seraph be a good damage dealer

[short adder]

the carcinization of Monumenta abilities but it's just earrows

hey Tony, give me ascension without the cooldown, with infinite duration, without any team buffs nor levitation, nor projectile travel time

i would rather seraph's clear speed both in and out of ascension go up so choosing to pop the ability is a meaningful choice

[rose atlas]

any reason on why dmg needs to be nerfed if this was a charm?

[rose atlas]

Personally i dislike the idea of a move thats used just for a damage/ escape goat situation which has a long cd

i would rather a more spammable use of it instead of using it as a ult move

[short adder]

not only would it be against the spirit of the original ability it'd immediately become the most required band-aid charm ever

this will never happen

i think your best bet to achieve that type of gameplay would be a pulsar LI paladin build

[rose atlas]

That would propably be the case, but i would like the idea of the flight being a movement option instead of a buffing option

[short adder]

hey if it's any consolation we're one holy javelin velocity charm away from paladin flight

[graceful gale]

unrelated but i think it would be cool if rampant miasma got changed to drop 2 effects on boon proc instead

with the boon rework

that build is like

not real

switch off stargazers

https://odetomisery.vercel.app/builder/m=Covenmourn Rend-6&o=Blighted Bugle-4&h=Rotting Skullcap-4&c=Watcher's Warning-4&l=Moqqil's Tarnished Legguards-4&b=Primordial Treads-4&charm=Blo-endant-1-C,Fra-_Drive-2-C,Mal-Neuron-3-C,Pio-_Prism-3-C,Zoe-c_Geas-3-C&name=Rend %2B Vase Seraph

[mystic lantern]

hey thats my build what the shrimp

[unkempt tusk]

I think it’s less about whether a charm that makes ascension infinite would be too op or not and more that the spec feels rather incomplete without it imo

[radiant isle]

The L2 duration extension mechanic is imo the healthiest/safest way of allowing exceptionally long use of the ability

[tough vector]

what eve nis the buff from this ability,
I really think it would do way more better as a toggle

[fathom pagoda]

three. fucking. toggles

[radiant isle]

Allowing infinite flight is a very dangerous game

[tough vector]

cleric has literally no other toggle what do you mean

[radiant isle]

Virtue and beam both have mode toggles

[tough vector]

it literally flies in melee range, what's the issue

[slate arch]

but seraph has

[tough vector]

ah right I guess

[radiant isle]

Should be out of melee range once I get flight improvements made

[tough vector]

then at least lower cooldown and increase damage /support capability
cause I guarantee not a single teammate I played with notice what the balls do

[tough vector]

if it was a toggle with few seconds of cooldown so that you can't just jump right back in but flight was within melee range as it is rn it would be fine I think

but if you do plan to make it out of melee range then yea better not make it infinite

[radiant isle]

If the cooldown started when the flight ended instead of on cast I think the effective base cd could be lowered as aptitude and other forms of cdr are less impactful

Right now, with no cooldown reduction, the cooldown you have when exiting at L1 is always 28 seconds because of the refund mechanic. It's equal to the ability having 28s cd but only starting when you exit flight

But 5% aptitude is then 5% of 28 instead of 5% of 40

So change the cooldown mechanic and you could shave off a few seconds without worrying too much about cdr stacking

I think that'd also simplify the description so it sounds like a good change in every way

[fathom pagoda]

do i use vase during asc with this

[graceful gale]

i use cmourn and vase

[fathom pagoda]

oh just cycle between them?

[plush stone]

it felt like stardancers was really important since the build has somewhat low divine justice damage. If I had the choice I would use mixed proj + magic boots too but none exist (I tried the mixed helmet but its too bad to use).

[plush stone]

not sure if I like that, since it means using radiance to help another player now is no longer helping your self when you activate ascension. It makes supporting more convoluted to do. I do agree with the need to simplify the skill a little.

[graceful gale]

gang stardancers buffs it by 2 compared to watchers warning

[radiant isle]

I think the change is worth it anyway because

• You have so many other activates it affects, so it's not like it's useless while ascended
• If a tor cast does not overlap with your ascension at all, it is almost guaranteed that it comes off cooldown early enough to affect the ascension next time you cast it, especially if you use warp drive
• The benefits simply outweigh it imo

[plush stone]

its a little more then 2 damage but I get your point here that you can possibly manage without using it. I guess i'll try switching chestplates, still not enthusiastic about it since star dancers also has double situationals as well; it was basically made to be used with this class.

[plush stone]

It still lowers efficiency, since you can tor and ascension at the same time and then tor again once its back; but now you can only tor after ascension is back. It also reminded me of earthen wrath, a skill that is punished quite hardly by working this way since it has bad synergy with the CDR tools in cz (like you cannot use it with whirlwind for example).

You can totally test that change though, I just am skeptical of it.

[split sentinel]

iridium crown is really good for throwrate seraph

[plush stone]

7 agil with no protection stats feels so bad though 💔

[split sentinel]

thats an on paper thing i think

its still just a solid damage item

effective 30% against elites and bosses from regicide

[reef oak]

iridium crown is in two hexfall dps builds

and is tied for bis in third

[mystic lantern]

Who gaf about hexfall

Just try the item in actual play

It’s nice

[rose atlas]

remove seraph and just add more pets

[mystic lantern]

Only the most meaningful suggestions

Thank you chasm for your endless wisdom

[limpid mango]

i mean like infinite flight is a dangerous game but is it really that dangerous of a game

like it's on the very edge of possible rn if you dump everything in your entire build to maximizing uptime and that build sucks because like it's not that beneficial to be in ascension

[rose atlas]

right now the dangerous part of flight is the fact that you're basically a sitting duck in the air

[mystic lantern]

thats not what they meant

i think

[rose atlas]

it's not

[amber sequoia]

keep the current flight but give it an 1s windwalk to adjust position

[mystic lantern]

that would be awesome :3

[faint hill]

As a support hiero

It'd be awesome to fly around constantly

Finally something to distract myself from the fact I just sit there and click 2 buttons to make some other player enjoy the game more

[radiant isle]

Ascension is getting some significant flight improvements this week and the cooldown change mentioned above, will take a bit longer to figure out durations and how longer periods of activation could work and such

Few changes to charms and beam with virtue fixes

More changes will come next week

[fathom pagoda]

very sigma

[short adder]

invest in seraph

[fathom pagoda]

already did

fun class when i dont get melee'd

[short adder]

okay but what if we fed seraph a keg of red bull

[tough vector]

wings when Ascended 🙏

[rose atlas]

Fairy vanity

[radiant isle]

it should hopefully be fun more consistently then

🤫

maybe I should post a video of how it is now when I get home instead of being cryptic

[rose atlas]

I’ve been curious, since you are the one that’s been fixing issues and getting feedback. Do you actually like the class design?

Like if you had full control over what could be the replacement for subclass cleric would you have chosen seraph

[radiant isle]

Yeah I'm the one that codes everything and came up with most of it

I generally work closely with beta testers for both ideas and testing (ascension and virtue both grew out of suggestions) but I would say that I designed the spec

[modern lark]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551064643423043588/1275611062619869306/6C9A8A0F-6E8E-336F-E83E-6EFE17AA3879.gif

[errant hound]

Is beam seal supposed to proc when you melee beam cause I like that very much

[mystic lantern]

That is intended

[rose atlas]

i cant wait to melee seraph while flying in the air

[errant hound]

Did they forget the lantern

[rose atlas]

[rose atlas]

@radiant isle love the flying it feels alot more smoother now

[radiant isle]

happy to hear

[rose atlas]

can mobs eat my toes when im flying?
(like can melee mobs hit you)

ngl i love the class concept with ascension rn, the flying feels great and the movement, i just wish the cd was shorter on it

personal preference anyway

[radiant isle]

Most mobs can't without some higher block to stand on

[rose atlas]

nice

[radiant isle]

On flat terrain you're pretty safe from anything 3 blocks high or shorter

And now you can actually avoid projectiles and spells

[short adder]

if Ascension's hover height isn't enough to keep you out of harm's way, the dash gives you a little bit of extra height so you can go over endermen/golems

[fathom pagoda]

can u dash up

[rose atlas]

ill see rq

[rose atlas]

No its not possible

but the dash does give a bit of up momentium

[short adder]

it's exclusively horizontal but there's a slight vertical lift

[rose atlas]

is there only one charm that gives cdr?

[light kayak]

ok the dash feels great for dodging things or quickly moving to mobs further away but i still wish the base flight was decently faster

normal mob projectiles still hit you relatively often and using dash to dodge those means wasting precious time in ascension

neuron change is awesome, the charm actually feels properly designed and fairly strong now

[rose atlas]

neuron's design personally i dont like, you get a better dmg and output overall but the moves becomes a massive dmg move with a extremely long cd

in general gameplay i'd like more of a spammable move over a move with big dps just for the fact that i could fly around more in daily content

fly around by use it more*

[fathom pagoda]

it's 24s cd

[rose atlas]

the charm

[fathom pagoda]

it doesnt feel that long

the charm what, u get the same duration if u kill things

and it doesnt do anything to your cd

[rose atlas]

it has a 50% + cd?

[edgy path]

neuron got reworked again btw

[fathom pagoda]

-50% duration

[edgy path]

its less duration now instead of more cd

[fathom pagoda]

[rose atlas]

im clucking you the next time i see you

[fathom pagoda]

i shall keep it as a trophy of your absolute incompetence comically evil laugh

but yea read again wawa

and have u even tried it?

[light kayak]

frankly yeah

it somehow doesnt

[short adder]

the CD changes to ascension are a net 3s decrease

[light kayak]

i like neuron's identity now albeit it's probably hard carried by max pt mob density and is barely usable in lower pt

[fathom pagoda]

i use it fine in 22pt

[short adder]

idk just pop it in opportune moments

[fathom pagoda]

tho i mainly use it for elites

[short adder]

you already want to use ascension for groups

[fathom pagoda]

pffft

i would not buff my teamate with orbs at all (real)

cuz i simply forget im playing a support subclass

[light kayak]

why'd you play neuron if you use it for elites tho

[fathom pagoda]

fun

[light kayak]

its gimmick is like

[fathom pagoda]

i love flying

[short adder]

elites create dreads which create dreadlings

[light kayak]

low base time but needs kills to sustain

[fathom pagoda]

that too sure

[rose atlas]

anws are we sleeping on the fact we got cdr charm for ascension

-30% cd

[light kayak]

• dura as well

[fathom pagoda]

im not using that

[light kayak]

tbh i dont feel like ascension is such a strong move that i'd want more cdr on it

[rose atlas]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/751480380632334457/1257747973023072256/togif-8.gif

[light kayak]

it still does like

[rose atlas]

thats how i'd like it aswell

[light kayak]

maybe 70 damage orbs

[rose atlas]

...

[light kayak]

its alright but its nothing crazy

[rose atlas]

no.

[short adder]

i am doing 80 damage orbs in R2

[rose atlas]

same

[light kayak]

do u just play mixed bis what

[short adder]

No

[rose atlas]

so frankly we have a bomb charm with long cd, so im hoping for a charm with cdr but is weaker

and yes one does exist but its not a epic charm and does nothing to thef act with dmg overall

[short adder]

Monumenta Builder

[light kayak]

cbless + illu enhance https://odetomisery.vercel.app/builder/m=Serebrium Dagger of Razzial-4&o=Wolfsblood Tome-4&h=Iridium Crown-4&c=Scopophobia-4&l=Moqqil's Tarnished Legguards-4&b=Encumbering Void-4&charm=Mal-Neuron-3-C,Zoe-c_Geas-3-C,Pio-_Prism-3-C,Exp-ponent-2-C,Blo-endant-1-C
max infus

[short adder]

with pers 30 and cbless I am getting 88 damage trident crits and 80 damage ascension orbs

[short adder]

use something with higher base damage

[light kayak]

naw surely i dont have to vase

[short adder]

triball is better

don't use throw rate gear

[light kayak]

hn triball is the sole reason i dont play scout

is hiero also down to triball slop now

[short adder]

you are using razziels

[light kayak]

i played cmourn it was worse so

[edgy path]

cmourn is so bad

[light kayak]

triball just feels horrible to play in any shape or form period

[short adder]

use a bow 🤷

[light kayak]

if i have to play it for seraph to be good

no thanks

[edgy path]

ive never used stormborn and i found out why today

the wind aspect is so ragebait

[rose atlas]

whats the issue with it?

[edgy path]

wind aspect makes the mob levitate so you have to aim ur snowball up which i am very not used to

[unique cradle]

"what's the issue with wind aspect"

it's the obvious one lol

[edgy path]

ive been using norvigut skewer like forever so its very hard to adjust to

[rose atlas]

so all you're saying is that your aim is bad?

[edgy path]

????

okay

[rose atlas]

[unique cradle]

reading comprehension fail

[edgy path]

do you like, know what wind aspect does

[rose atlas]

chucks mob into the air

[fathom pagoda]

now you have to readjust the aim into the air b4 it falls down

or u just miss

[rose atlas]

the main reason i like wind aspect is the fact that they cant move when there in the air

they can shoot and melee but

i personally find it easier for tight poi's

[fathom pagoda]

wind aspect on alch bag is fine tho real

[rose atlas]

gg another monumenta shutdown

or not nvm

[fathom pagoda]

where did u get that

[edgy path]

i like it on the alch bag because i dont have to aim a snowball at it right after my throw

[rose atlas]

i got messaged about server closed now purgatory

r3 crashed

[light kayak]

yeah well vase does feel stronger

triball as well however much i hate myself for playing it

did we really get 2nd scout.......

why is triball even a thing aaaaaaaaa

[mystic lantern]

Bows would be nice

But they suffer from being bows in r3

I’ve had some success with deaths gaze and shooting start in 70+

Crossbows aren’t bad either

Mourn and tide bound are of course good

I’ve tried heralds a couple of time and it does not feel good

Arcane rifle might be sleepe

r

[radiant isle]

I should clarify that increasing flight movement speed is… basically impossible. We can maybe get away with it on really low ping, but there are technical limitations that disallow it. The dash is the only movement utility ascension can and will get and frankly I think it does the job perfectly. You're not invincible to everything but it's a massive help for dodging and travelling

[tough vector]

isn't there a charm that literally increases flight speed?

[radiant isle]

Nope, not sure which one you're thinking of

[tough vector]

imo they could/should get extra bonus or just doubled their benefit
Currently it's same as xbow and xbow is just... way better to use on all fronts

[mystic lantern]

I think bows can be touched up in general

[tough vector]

they already have higher budget and at least 1 exclusive enchant

at this point just give them all some melee damage, so that instead of having to do limp shots you can just melee whack an enemy
pipe puncher synergy or something idk

[mystic lantern]

Doesn’t matter when they get mogged by literally everything

[tough vector]

nvm confused ball speed

though reading now the buff from Ascenion does seem substantion
too bad I can';t tell if I hit a teammate or no

[radiant isle]

For next week I'll try to make base ascension actually have particles

It's so barebones right now and I kept forgetting about it

The sins cosmetic added has visual feedback when hitting allies so that at least should help a bit

[mystic lantern]

thank you for all the hard work oomfie

[tough vector]

Was stuff with spaming normal snowball fixed? (Ie cryosphere for divine orb spam)

[radiant isle]

yup I forgot to add that to the changelog

items need to have projectile damage to make orbs

[faint hill]

I like that explosive component was changed to a "ascension but if you don't want to deal damage, actually"

I'll yoink that to my hiero build

Very glad it's low charm points or else I'd never go for it probably

I'm yet to try it though

Possible suggestion would be removing the added cooldown reduction per kill and instead just flat out reducing the cooldown

Since a support hiero would not be killing stuff anyway

And it should be compensated somewhat probably.

Of course it should be made so it's not broken at lvl 1 where the cdr from kills doesn't exist

Also I'm suggesting that a person affected by ascension +dmg% has a halo over their head

This has the triple benefit of
Being thematically consistent with ascension

Making the particles visible clearly overhead, which is where the seraph will be seeing the teammates from

Being cool

[amber sequoia]

🪨

[radiant isle]

The cooldown refund mechanic was removed in place of the new cooldown

As mentioned by the dev note in the changelog, L2 duration extension doesn't refund cooldown

Effectively it's similar to having the refund, just without extension giving any

Now realizing that wasn't particularly clear in the changelog

[weak ginkgo]

are there any plans on changing the duration/cooldown of the skill ?

[mighty cave]

for this can we have some sort of anti wind aspect like recoils

[mystic lantern]

no

[mighty cave]

like shift disables wind aspect

[radiant isle]

Well we just did, will see how the new cooldown plays out

[weak ginkgo]

isnt it the exact same but you gain the cooldown after you have landed?

[mighty cave]

not quite same

[weak ginkgo]

making it just worse for aptitude/cdr items /abilities

[mighty cave]

duration used to make your uptime ratio better

[radiant isle]

3 seconds were shaved off too

It's only worse when you have aptitude 5+ levels of cdr

An argument can be made for shaving more off

[weak ginkgo]

i meant it in a sence where the skill has less duration but less cd . most fights end way sooner than the 15 seconds and it kinda feels like a waste to wait that long till the next ascension

like a 10 s duration with a cooldown balanced around that

[radiant isle]

The new Ashkii Galero should be your taste then

[mystic lantern]

^^

I hard disagree, huge fan how it is right now

[weak ginkgo]

also a question i have is whether the alley is getting buffed in any way ?

to me it felt by far the weakest out of the 3 skills

[radiant isle]

Not sure what I want to do with it yet but yes it'll get more attention this week hopefully

Ascension and beam just happened to be prioritized first

[rose atlas]

If people wanted it, you could make a charm that increases dash distance or dash cd

[radiant isle]

The fabled +javelin launch velocity +ascension dash velocity charm

[weak ginkgo]

lvl 2 of a spec skill for a 3 block leap and 1 sec cdr

[radiant isle]

Yeah the l2 upgrades serve different purposes now instead of being homogenized to more damage

[weak ginkgo]

making them not worth being picked if the functionality is very minimal or non existent in the case of javelin .

[amber sequoia]

if only javelin has grappling hook level velocity

[viscid tapir]

i think they are worth being picked if they are fun 👽

[radiant isle]

You say this but it's clearly just not for you, there are plenty of people who find the movement utility appealing

[slim shore]

any floral anguish users in the chat

[weak ginkgo]

In what world is a 8s 3 block leap appealing.Movement on cleric would be nice if done correctly. I think a functionality + a raw number stat makes a lot more sense because of how valuable a spec point is . A good example is taboo where you get burst mode + raw dmg increase as it is an offensive ability to begin with . But from what i have seen lvl 2 on bells and LI are picked a lot more often .

i used to play javelin 3-4 months ago and its damage just tanked from 140 to like 80 with the change of upgrades on the base class + spec changes.

[edgy path]

what are you talking about

wrong spec?

[faint hill]

this message was in fact a fruit of a reading comprehension failure on my part

also, reading the descriptions again made my realise the whole suggestion makes sense

the idea behind it was to compensate for choosing L2 on ascension when youre a full support hiero and not killing stuff

but reading the descriptions again made me realize there is basically 0 benefit to lvl 2 for full support hiero

and thats completely fine given how valuable the points in virtue or beam are

so no need for any type of compensation there, just dont pick lvl on full support build

[slim shore]

doesn’t taboo 2 no longer give a raw dmg increase

[faint hill]

right here

this will likely change though...

[slim shore]

is it good

[faint hill]

well it will stay as my beam weapon

but its not necessary

so i might just replace it for screwdriver which i will be using in ascension

i mean lets be honest

only good part abt it is the traige 2

which is 10% healing

(barely anything)

ive been using it for beam ever since release and it only has 550 healing done on it

for context my adept's raiment has 5k

its a very cool idea but its honetly not that great

this would change if it had aptitude ofc

[faint hill]

now that i think about it again

nah

ill definitely switch it over for screwdriver

i think it would be neat if ascension buff duration sclaed with how fast a weapon is

so if you have screwdriver, applying it only takes one click yes

[weak ginkgo]

didnt see that in the 5 billion alch nerfs . my bad

[faint hill]

but you have to constantly click on someone

and if you have a bow, it takes much more time to draw back and aim

but it has larger radius and longer duration

also testing it in game now and can confirm the dash during flight is a lot of fun

@radiant isle have you thought about changing the projectiles to something more akin to hit and scan like pstrike

i think it would be fitting if bows, tridents and crossbows which are slow enough had an effect similar to pstrike twisted cosmetic instead of the slow moving and small projectile it is rn

[forest lion]

I think you can tap bow and it'll buff
if that's the purpose

[faint hill]

(when referencing pstrike cosmetic i am especially thinking about the big ball at the end compared to its thin "main body". afaik normal pstrike has just a long line of particles. that ball will be used for the range of explosion at the end)

[faint hill]

not really. i am trying to justify using a bow and drawing it fully instead of just turning my brain off and using screwdriver

and making it feel powerful in a different way than the current bolts

[radiant isle]

I don't think I understand the idea here

[faint hill]

i admit im spitballing ideas rn and they are not really filtered but so far ive thought of
hitscan on fully charged shots
increasing/decreasing duration with how long a weapon takes to shoot
maybe moving the increased radius from lvl2 to 1

[faint hill]

i am trying to imagine what buffs could bows get for me to justify using them instead of snowballs

[radiant isle]

frankly I don't think screwdriver is particularly good for ascension

[faint hill]

as it is right know ill just never use bows probably, but i think theyre much cooler than right clicking and throwing a screwdriver at mobs and players

[radiant isle]

tball beats it by quite far

[faint hill]

as a support hiero*

[radiant isle]

true...

[forest lion]

maybe you can make it so that slower drawing weapons has a bigger radius depend on how long they draw

[faint hill]

yeah basically what i thought of

currently theres an effect similar to that on lvl2

[faint hill]

i should just add a "P.S. I am speaking almost exclusively about pure support playstyle" under every message i send at this point

seems obvious to me because thats the main thing i play but ofc thats a not very obvious mind shortcut

[light kayak]

it really isn't

other than full support

what im noticing is ascension is significantly better at high base dmg weapons

which sucks cause i hate tball and dont like vase very much

[mighty cave]

whats the original idea of screwdriver

the only scenario id pick screwdriver is to trigger gbomb but dagger is better for piercing

[faint hill]

a cool interaction that is very convenient for full support is that at my build, the duration of rain and ascension is basiaclly the same
if it was different i might run into problems with spreading the rain to others when flying, but as it is I can rain while close to them then fly off and do my own thing

[forest lion]

just fast snowball
as fast as it can be

[faint hill]

i use screwdriver for casting in cz and now in ascension

also some feedback on ascension dash that isnt in any way practical to add to the game is that it feels weird not having a backwards dash

the reason for it being not practical to add is because afaik there are no more slots for that

and id much rather have a forwards dash rather than a backwards one

at the moment ill just be turning around for a second, dashing, then turning back

actually, it might be added as a dead keybind

the one thats turned off by defualt

[forest lion]

tact pilled I think
lowkey combat hrimnir

[faint hill]

also, probably gonna be added real soon but an indicator for when the dash is off cooldown

[fathom pagoda]

i bought a 2nd cmourn for seraph b4 the update, truly over

[faint hill]

wise financial decisions

[light kayak]

lmfao

[fathom pagoda]

it's ok

i have 1550 har left

and cmourn isnt that expensive anymore

hf mats drop is crazy

[tough vector]

no
Not the javelin.

at least not without making it 1-2 dashes before landing
otherwise it'll be perpetual flight

[radiant isle]

hey guess what

Holy Javelin L2 can no longer launch forwards more than once before hitting the ground

[faint hill]

"hey, maybe paladin is a better support than seraph, but at least it cant fly"
paladin:

[tough vector]

also I played now post the changes and

[fathom pagoda]

will probably still use it cuz it's very sigma

[tough vector]

Keeper still deals no damage, lmao. It's funny how it does have that 10 I was suggesting and it somehow still literally does tickles, I'll check max charmed and infused build and see if it can do anything meaningful.

Ascension became a bully tool for melee enemies, damage is STILL a downgrade compared to normal bow shots, dash is amazing. But I still would love feedback for buffed players
I play with teammate who loves torms and I don't see damage difference from buffing him at all, as if I don't even hit him, I am unsure if registration for it is that bad, or that 30% is just meaningless in thousand of damage sources in r3

Beam is slightly stronger now, nice.
But for damage you still are glued to the charm, even if it's weaker now...

Speaking of Charms:
-basic Keeper charms: I'm glad what happened to them, the numbers are meaningless even in upgraded form but hey it's better than +2 hp
-Wisteria: Still bad, at least now it fits it's niche, well, was. Why is it 3cp now?
-Automated Distilery: Is a charm I didn't even knew existed, I'm guessing it was given +cd% when Boons got cooldown but WOW that is painful to look at, 9s for a 20% heal is wild, especially when you realise it's just for cleric, as literally every teammate gets full hp heal every 10s, hell even with Zoetic you heal at least 50% of teammates hp.

Though maybe it is justified? my only problem with the whole Boon CD addition is that suddently Cleric even in tankier sets is just way too glassy, the split damage pieces have a low budget Iridium crown, anyone? . I can't seem to be able to get my old comfy state of enough damage with infusions and enough ehp to to not die to solo peons

Good changes though overall, I think

Also shoutout to Keeper who died two times by fully draining his hp in an attempt to heal Taboo epic charmed Harb at half health

[radiant isle]

It has an antiheal check but taboo is probably a custom source? Will get that fixed

[tough vector]

to be fair he's my only teammate usually, he eats 3 beams and HoL just to be bought back from 20% hp
don't blame keeper for trying his best

[radiant isle]

right I forget taboo is only 100% antiheal with steroid

[amber sequoia]

jesus

[forest lion]

No it’s 75% with steroid

[amber sequoia]

^

[radiant isle]

okay well then I guess I don't have to fix anything!

[tough vector]

50% bonus of 50% so yea it's 75% as stori said

[high quest]

wasn't the whole point of the sanct armor rework + boon nerf to make it so boon is leaning more towards a support role and sanct is cleric's personal survivability skill now

[light kayak]

no the boon nerf was to prevent straight up fullhealing every 3 kills lmfao

idk how it was kept in the game for so long

[reef oak]

it was very funny

even in r1 i could just Illuminate and maybe hol a horde and get full healed

[tough vector]

the 40% boon heal also allowed glass cannon playstyle where you'd just run damage to crack skulls and leach off of boons like some hakari wannabe

[tough vector]

and I'll be honest sancrified armor does not exist
I get what it's meant to be, but man do I not feel that 20% at all

[high quest]

isn't it 30%

[unique cradle]

20/30%

[hollow saddle]

yeah as a hiero running dagger/melee it feels a lot worse to have the self-sustain gutted. dj healing nerf (also bloodpact), boon nerf, eprayer removed and compensated only with sactified armor lol

i'm basically running off of life drain only

[unique cradle]

doing testing with the new distillery and it feels pretty nice overall?

need to do more to cement how I feel about it but if you play a slow playstyle it's not that bad

[light kayak]

you're running a ranged spec using melee for some reason

what do you think is gonna happen

you're ofc free to do as you please but using a spec the opposite way of the intended one and thinking you're getting the intended experience is a bit wrong

[hollow saddle]

yeah of course it's up to the designers if they want decide to support a certain playstyle

i only bring it up because it USED to feel better

[light kayak]

and that's intentional

cleric self-sustain was insanely broken for a while now

dj healing 10% per kill is inadequate when you can kill the entire population of mongolia worth of mobs in 0.5s using spells

same with boon

[unique cradle]

you had:
usurper on every kill
A decent chance for usurper 10 on every kill
crain
weakness
pretty solid build options
passive regen

[light kayak]

dj is fair now and shouldn't have made much of a difference for melee (at least i didn't feel it on melee pala) and, frankly, makes a lot more sense that dj heals on dj kills

[unique cradle]

it's really nice too because now it feels like you aren't necessarily forced to pick dj even on caster

[light kayak]

that too

[unique cradle]

I mean would you yeah probably but it's not "lose all your healing"

[light kayak]

it felt like odor 2 for caster pala

[high quest]

someone mind explaining what explosive component is doing for me

Explosive Component (Rework): 2 Charm Power, +65% Ethereal Ascension Orb Radius, +10% Ethereal Ascension Orb Damage Amplifier, -20% Ethereal Ascension Orb Damage

what is the difference between orb damage amplifier and orb damage

[short adder]

damage amplifier -> the buff you give to your teammates

[edgy path]

• buff minus damage

[short adder]

orb damage -> your orb's own damage

you make yourself weaker to make your team stronger

[high quest]

ic thx

[light kayak]

and you buff your aoe which imo makes it a solid choice even for solo

[errant hound]

New beam is so nice, I love new beam But the virtue is just a weak bug zapper and moral support and I don't really use ascension all that much

[gilded escarp]

is there a way to make keeper virtue target a specific mob

[rose atlas]

Not that I can think of

[short adder]

virtue priorities mobs you're looking at when toggling from inactive to active

it's not very consistent

[faint hill]

i wasnt very sure about virtue healing power level

becuase in a normal delve things are too hectic to pay attention, and i usually use hol or beam first to emergency heal my paper thin ehp teammates

so i tried isolating it by just having someone get hit and healed only by it

and it is quite a bit of healing actually

(with seal of the way btw)

it can barely outheal a melee ~22pt arx mob if the teammate is getting hit once a second instead of standing in place

(the set was the standard scout set i think)

my verdict is that this is probably very strong on tankier builds

VERY strong

id have to test it, but the healing is a lot and if they have enough ehp buffer to not require a beam the instant their health goes yellow (or else they get oneshot) i think you could just literally leave the virtue on them permanently

and they just straight up wouldnt die

i do think its quite a bit weaker on low ehp teammates though, purely because they are very likely to die before the virtue can do that much if not emergency beamed

i did get some (probably unbalanced af) ideas to somehow remedy this though

level 2 virtue: Sacrifice
If a player in its range takes lethal damage, kill the virtue but provide its remaining health as absorption (times a multiplier ofc, like maybe 20% of its health? so at full hp itd give 7 absorption)

another way is to supercharge the first tick of healing in some way (id love if it was combined with absorption)

this would also give way for a full lifeline charm, something like
-40% virtue healing threshold
-40% virtue healing ceiling threshold
+400% virtue healing per tick
(this can function without absorption but would probably seriously suck due to how easy it is to just die instead of stopping at >20% hp)

another fun idea which goes against everything ive said before and panders to only tankier players specifically is ramping healing

so if theres a guardian with toughness 2*, sw and steadfast and they stay at low hp for the entire encounter, at the end they get healed a ton per second

other than that, i didnt even keep my virtue in attack mode at all because even the 15% vuln is like nonexistent and would only waste hp

i found that the hp managing mechanic is a fun idea for something to do to noit make it a passive skill, but in practice i didnt really care enough for +15% speed to turn it off between encounters and i rarely even had to heal the virtue

i would definitely love a
+virtue hp drain
+virtue passive regen while passive
+healing
+vuln
charm

to really make it a skillfull ability

not sure if id use it much personally though, because i am already getting slightly overwhelmed with all the skills seraph now has

my poor hierophant brain is used to no icon for sanctified armor, only 1 active spec ability and no ToR to keep track of

maybe i shouldve structured this better

i thought thered be less

uhh thats it for now

no major thoughts on ascension and beam other than that beam still does its job very well, ascension flight is now actually pretty good (except when i fall off a ledge and have to ire back up) and the +radius from explosive component is really noticeable

i would love to see how seraph performs in a larger team though, so ill probably give feedback on that when i finish

[faint hill]

i tried pasting shit into chat gpt for it to organise it for me but it didnt work very well

if someone's struggling paste it into chat gpt itll probably do a better tldr

Better structured feedback 😎 (FULL SUPPORT SERAPH SPECIFIC)

seraph is more challenging to play than hierophant and i realize i havent been using all of its potential, for example not using ascension off-cooldown but saving it for bigger fights (which is honestly not a great idea and just inefficient). Beam is the same as always, the ol' reliable.

Ascension

Ascension is a great tool for big delve brawls (think 2 dreads, 3 colossi, 20 add mobs, infernals and elites all in one room), because if someone else takes all the aggro you are almost untouchable in the air.

Also allows you a clear line of sight to basically all players (which is great for emergency beams you may have otherwise struggled to hit), and also allows you to use cbless and rain on them without pushing through a crowd of delve mobs. Hidden synergy with HoL (u) because if youre in the middle of the action you can reliably stun all mobs while healing.

Still needs an indicator of whether players have a buff or not. Still feel like the explosion hitbox should be marked more clearly with particles, with a sphere like a firework.

Virtue

It is EXTREMELY strong in healing non-glass targets. Like, it may have just been on par with HoL and beam combined. The key is to turn off your thinking of "if i dont heal them right now, theyre gonna die" and sometimes just let it heal passively unless they get really low and you see theyre about to die. The healing it has is HELLA STRONG. I dont think it NEEDS a burst/lifeline mode anymore, but itd certainly make it more useful for glassier classes.

I will probably never turn on its attack mode. Similarly, it heals a lot on its own even outside of passive mode, so i never turned off that (only had to heal it with beam once for the entire POI, and it did HELLA healing work). Some changes might have to be made in order to make it more actively used. Definitely a LOT of changes to its attack mode if it ever wants to be used on pure support, but that'd probably be hard to do without overbuffing offensive seraph.

Virtue should absolutely follow a player, and a keybind for choosing which should be added. Firstly this is probably mandatory in a team with more than 2 people, and secondly it will prevent cases where going away 1 block away from your teammate to be useful in other ways such as looting or breaking spawners will make it useless as passive downtime healing source.

Speaking of downtime. I feel like this being a source of healing when you don't have any healing skills off cd was intended, but in practice it basically never came to that. In fact, I had to restrain myself with my beam and hol to make use of virtue healing. Maybe in another meta it might serve as downtime healing but, with hol at 5 seconds per cast and beam at like 8 it just ain't.

Virtue is extremely good with tankier classes or classes that are in high risk of getting hit, but having time between hits. (for example berserker, except the risk of them going too high to be healed by virtue)

[unique cradle]

Totally agree with the Tor thing I hope there's optional keybinds for player only casts

[faint hill]

Final Notes

ToR needs a buff in terms of player detection imo. it feels very hard to hit reliably, kinda like old beam.

Also I definitely underestimated how strong virtue would be. Due to how chaotic most normal clears are I had to isolate it and really focus to see how it provided value, but once I saw it was easy to see it was an absolute MVP.

Overall, Seraph is a ton of fun. From straight up flying over the battlefield to seeing someone out heal all damage by doing nothing. It's a huge success and a great force multiplier. I will definitely keep playing it and after some qol buffs it will be a firm first place spec for me.

.

[short adder]

Ascension's cosmetic does actually have a custom indicator if you hit a player

I think better particles for the base kit are on the to-do list

I actually think you don't even need a virtue following mode, but rather the action and detection ranges on the base skill should go up instead

If you try running Distant Sentinel, it will absolutely glue itself to anyone that's even mildly hurt

[faint hill]

I think that'd be boring

Instead of thinking who to give the virtue in a larger team you just... Get it for all of them basically

No skill involved

Meanwhile if you're playing trio you can give a tankier player the virtue and focus burst healing on a glass cannon player instead

Splitting your healing where it shines most

It probably wouldn't hurt to increase range other than skill expression

I feel like managing your virtue's position leaves much more to do, and if you just don't want that then you can stick it on one person and forget about it or keep it on yourself

Also, 16 blocks isn't that short even if it feels like it at times

So when putting it on another player you still have a chance of supporting all others if they group up

And alternatively it gives an incentive to the followed player to keep in mind their teammates position to maximize virtue utility for the entire team

[unique cradle]

i mean I think giving a duo the ability to have a virtue stuck to them like glue is, a choice

when there's more than 2 players, eh, sure, but at the same time you just send it off to one person and then you should never have to worry about them unless they get in DEEP trouble

which is also pretty non-interactive

[faint hill]

i think lessening interactivity through a follow function is still better

cause you actually have to choose who to follow (fair point thats not a consideration when duoing though)

i think the interactivity should come from virtue health management more than worrying whether it can even apply its main function

a follow function makes you assured that it WILL be useful when the time comes, while still adding some optional complexity

making good headway to make it less passive via health management

[rose atlas]

Seraph angelic pet still does less dmg than a bug zapper

[reef oak]

fact checked: false

[rose atlas]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/751480380632334457/1257747973023072256/togif-8.gif

[keen skiff]

This isn’t Seraph specific (sorry, but there wasn’t a better place I think), but the new Boon and DJ changes feel really bad? Maybe I’m just bad (because no one else is complaining), but healing feels more inconsistent than before.

For boon, it’s both on a cooldown and you have to get lucky enough to kill mobs, which feels really scuffed, and is also a massive nerf. If you take distillery to offset the kill requirement, you end up with Soul Rend but way worse (~4 health with a 9 second cooldown vs. 8 health minimum with a 8 second cooldown, both at level 2). It’s also kinda just more RNG dependent, because if a potion spawns at the beginning of an encounter, you aren’t going to get much healing for the rest of the cooldown, which feels awful a lot of the time. When it does go off cooldown again, if you don’t get the drop chance, you pretty much just implode, which also feels pretty bad.

For cleric’s other two real sources of healing, the DJ changes just read as “don’t heal from spells”, which I think would be fair (though it makes bloodpact kind of disproportionately better imo) if the boon nerfs didn’t happen. However, considering you can’t really hyper-focus on building DJ damage, most of your clearing is going to come from your spells, so I don’t feel like there’s much to offset it? Also, lastly, the sanctified armor enhancement is kind of… bad. It’s just the same as it was before (which I had problems with in the first place), but now it’s tied to an ability with a 25 second cooldown, which is… not great. The main problem with it is that it feels like it’s designed for 1v1 fights against mobs, which feels bad in R3, especially since you’re encouraged to be fighting more mobs to proc boon, have max damage HoLs, etc. An indicator would help, I guess, but also it would be switching so often with any amount of legionary (or if any dread spawns) I’m not sure that it would help all that much?

[amber sequoia]

Nerfing every healing on cleric is their goal

It’s bad? Yeah but I don’t think they are buffing them

[keen skiff]

Yeah, and I definitely agree that something needed to be done, I just don’t like the way it was done very much

It also means HoL(u) got indirectly nerfed because trying to utilize the full 360 will just get you instakilled now

[amber sequoia]

😭

imo dj should have 5% heal if you kill a mob without dj

And boon needs some change yuh

[amber sequoia]

Like there’s millions of abilities in cleric that doesn’t even apply dj

[unique cradle]

Hard disagree why should my melee ability heal me when I cast a spell

Boon I agree with though

[radiant isle]

I don't know how much you've played with them but I still find that they read much worse on paper than they actually are in effect.
One of the main goals with both DJ and boon nerfs were to detach them from mob density (thus reducing their extremeties while not overnerfing them in general, basically making them fluctuate less). DJ does this by relying on melee/projectile attacks, which you can only do so many of in a time frame, and Boon does it by having a cooldown (and increased drop chance for L1). 5% self heal from DJ was an option but it would just hurt R1 and R2 while R3 could still get away with instahealing to full from one ability cast (Bloodpact Pendant's -50% healing was barely noticeable on a melee paladin build and caster paladin didn't even use it)

[unique cradle]

Boon does need some refactoring; both rng and on cooldown doesn't feel very good

[radiant isle]

I disagree I think it does well at avoiding being like Soul Rend while still having a ceiling

Maybe the cooldown could be reduced I guess

[amber sequoia]

Idk maybe because cleric is a hybrid class

Is boon giving the effect that you don’t have/have the least duration considered

It’s like the must needed qol

[hollow saddle]

could we detach the boss damage requirement from the cooldown?

[amber sequoia]

I don’t like waiting multiple boon cooldown but still can’t get a effect i want 🥀

[hollow saddle]

if the argument for cooldown is mob density

[keen skiff]

I played for a couple of hours, and I died like 5x more than I usually did lmao

I agree that untying it from mob density was a good thing, but incredibly harsh nerfs with basically nothing back feels pretty bad still

[keen skiff]

I think the cooldown would be fine if the healing wasn’t like half of Rend’s on an arguably squishier class

[unique cradle]

I don't think that's the problem really?

it's more like
It's tied to a cooldown, yes, but it's moreso that it's incredibly inconsistent

and there's no way to mitigate that except killing more mobs

imagine if bezoar was a 20% chance but on a 3s cooldown

I think it's fine if it's like soul rend a little bit

[radiant isle]

It's more consistent now than it was before 🤷 (not saying it's stronger (it isn't) but it is more consistent)
The rng is a quirk of the original design which is controversial to remove so it was kept with an increase to its chance at L1

[keen skiff]

I really don’t see how it’s more consistent? At level 2 it’s just the same thing but you just can’t roll chances when you’re on cooldown

[radiant isle]

I mean the new sanctified armor is pretty helpful

[unique cradle]

It's consistently inconsistent
Having a cooldown doesn't make it less consistent it just means that you have to roll an inconsistency every 6 seconds

[radiant isle]

It's more consistent because there's a smaller gap between procs is what I mean

[keen skiff]

Idk I’ve never felt it being active because I’m dying so much quicker, but that’s not really a problem with the skill, so it’s fine

[radiant isle]

It's weaker yeah but it is more consistent

Like that is the math

[unique cradle]

nnnno.

[amber sequoia]

How…

[unique cradle]

it went from 20% chance to 20% chance

[amber sequoia]

How is 20% no cd to 20% 6cd more consistent

😭

[keen skiff]

Plus, if you kill things on cooldown, when it goes off now there’s less mobs to try to proc off of

[amber sequoia]

Make l1 7cd, l2 50s duration + -0.75s cd when trigger, enhancement now -1 boon cd for every mobs you killed while its in cooldown

[unique cradle]

No, that makes it reliant on mob density again

[amber sequoia]

maybe add boss damage dealt too

idk

[unique cradle]

it already has boss damage... and that's not happening in clear unless twisted...

[amber sequoia]

[tough vector]

it wouldn't be a bad thing per say but cleric doesn't really.. have anything else

Rogue is a glass cannon that one shots
Warrior gets tons of EHP, both from a passive, DR skill and a shield (albeit in r3 that's a joke, I 'll stay silent on this toppic.)

Cleric has... only his healing.
Sanctified while an interesting thing should probably have it's (u) aspect at base, and/or provide better DR so it's felt on anything else but glass builds, which admitably most are since magic/melee stat budget wasn't accounted for cleric suddently loosing all of his ehp

Alternatively boon might just need upgrade to it, how I have no clue, a chance increase? healing increase? guaranteed effect? Unsure what the skills' direction is now.

[unique cradle]

let's be honest glass builds have pretty much exactly the same viability on cleric
if you died in three hits before you would die in three hits now

[split sentinel]

@teal dagger you had issues with dj healing on cleric right

[teal dagger]

I was initially ok with it but it feels incredibly inconsistent and unreliable now, especially on Paladin where you have a lot of active abilities that will "steal" your healing if you use them

that and its complete absence in the presence of bosses

[high quest]

It kind of feels like you’re being punished for killing mobs while it’s on cd now

[radiant isle]

I have more things to say but inconveniently I have to leave and can't respond for a couple hours

[teal dagger]

as conveniently well themed Automatic Distillery is, why isn't this just the base ability

me when I wait out my cooldown but I still have to win a 1/5 chance

sure when it activates it's borderline op but like why am I waiting till 21 to go gamble in Vegas

it's the one thing I've hated about Cleric since I started playing it, muh support/healing focused class and I have to leave it up to lady luck for my class to work

[faint hill]

You simply have to

Pray to God

It's thematically correct

[teal dagger]

I've started toiling with builds that pack a lot of LD/Sus/Regen just to ignore the luck factors and in a twisted sense those builds do very well

[high quest]

Automatic distillery is cool

Unfortunately, you also kind of trade healing consistency for buff consistency

[teal dagger]

I wonder if it would be reasonable to kneecap Boon healing in favor of DJ healing

could make Boon more interesting beyond "PI but skill"

and also fix the consistency problems

[light kayak]

Cleric healing was batshit broken before and is still very strong now

Yeah, a relatively balanced class will feel less consistent than being able to fullheal from 1 spell but I'm sorry chief that's not how balancing works

[light kayak]

then.. don't use it? if it gets you instakilled why would you
it doesnt get me instakilled, so I'll keep on using it

very useful enhancement still

ehp btw

guard 2 and shielding 1 but those only help you in so many situations

its about 140 with just shielding which you can get somewhat consistent uptime on; it's still on the lower end for close range r3

[unique cradle]

zero clue what "using the full 360 aoe" means when it's not like volley, it's literally just more spread + a stun

[teal dagger]

360 Volley and its negative impact on self preservation instincts

yeah Cleric healing was op but at least it could be relied on

[hollow saddle]

yeah youre so good bro

[keen skiff]

Ok I will admit that it’s probably just a skill issue

[keen skiff]

Oh I’m not entirely complaining that it was nerfed, it was absolutely deserved, but I’m mostly complaining about how it was nerfed

Cleric healing was stupid and 100% needed a nerf, but now it just feels bad to play imo because of the inconsistency

[high quest]

I dont care that it was nerfed, i care that it feels bad to use

It’s a skill with 2 layers of RNG and a cooldown with only r3 having ways to mitigate the triple layers of downsides

[modern lark]

its not really inconsistent imo if you play cleric as god xernial intented

well maybe boon but otherwise I don't think dj healing is too bad

[high quest]

To clarify, i’m only referring to boon, i dont really have an opinion on the DJ changes

[keen skiff]

I was running to the middle of a group and using the 360 to effectively double the range, which I do realize now probably wasn’t great for balancing that I could do that with 0 consequences, so I do take that statement back

[mystic lantern]

#noticing

[reef oak]

boon rng

why is it not like bezoar even

[unique cradle]

well, imagine if you HAD to get five kills every cooldown

or worse, if you got the fifth kill while it was still on cooldown

[radiant isle]

I'll take suggestions on how to approach healing better, but I'll explain my thought process for the boon change
As mentioned earlier, the cooldown was added to hit the extreme healing boon can provide in dense encounters (much much more common in r3). The L1 chance was brought up to compensate and L2 was left relatively weak of an upgrade since the previous gap in strength was too large. Looking at L1, we went from 10% chance with no cooldown to 20% chance with 8s cooldown. This effectively limits the frequency at which you can gain boons, yes, but over a longer period of time you are going to proc it earlier than before. This is what I mean when I say it has become more consistent. You could get a boon one second after the last, or you could get it after 20+, 10% was not particularly reliable. Now you have to wait 8 seconds, but after that you're twice as likely to get it than previously. There's a period in which you cannot get a boon, but the following "drought" is much shorter than it would've been previously, had you not rolled a boon in those 8 seconds. Ultimately I see this as a particularly harmless trade in R1 and R2 where things generally move slower and the density is lower. L2 has certainly been nerfed, nothing was gained there unlike with L1. It was also the intention to nerf it after all. In the end I do not find the healing to be unreliable or inconsistent in any region - don't get me wrong, if ya'll don't like how it was done then I'll do my best to improve it, I simply haven't had the same experience

And to reiterate, boon is still a chance because the suggestion to change that to bezoar style was slightly controversial and I didn't feel particularly strong about it in any way. Increasing the % at L1 felt like enough to me

[unique cradle]

sure - but the chance based system is still kind of grating, not the cooldown
for l1 it's great I like the change there

[radiant isle]

I think what bothers me most about the new system is how it interacts with the enhancement

But anyway boon charms are now more potent in proc chance, I'm curious how charms like greater and/or focused boon feel to you guys if we're to do more changes

[keen skiff]

I think the boost from boon charms is pretty unnoticeable imo, since I feel like the limiting factor is more about the cooldown than the kill chance

[high quest]

Can the buffs and the healing be separated maybe

[short adder]

I wouldn't mind the enhancement also getting two buffs per boon proc rather than the CDR increasing - you'd get the same amount of healing but you'd guarantee two unique effects

I don't really feel strongly either way about the healing changes, mostly because Sanctified Armor is a much stronger EHP boost to my melee/ranged Cleric builds than Heavenly Boon ever was

[high quest]

A somewhat complicated issue I have with the new boon is that it highly encourages a somewhat specific playstyle due to how it interacts with the rest of cleric’s kit

[short adder]

I think my ideal Heavenly Boon would be as follows:

[short adder]

• Instant Heal is removed from Heavenly Boon entirely, and now Regeneration 1 is a baseline effect that procs every potion
• Heavenly Boon loses the chance stat completely, with Tiered charms turning into Regeneration Duration
• Heavenly Boon now procs on kill, with a 10/8s cooldown
• Divine Justice healing is increased as necessary

If you swap out Instant Health for Regeneration, you lose the "soul rend effect" on the ability

[teal dagger]

agree

[rose atlas]

regen 1 seems quite low

[forest lion]

If we were to swap to regen maybe we can just remove cd
They don’t stack anyways

[short adder]

I think it's going to boil down to either CD or chance and I'd rather have the former

[forest lion]

Fair enough

[short adder]

Regeneration could also be swapped out for some sort of generic HP/s regen like bezoar/rampage if there's a need for greater control over the stat through charms

[rose atlas]

why stop at just regen?

[short adder]

CD is better for chance in a multitude of ways, both in consistency as well as playing well with the rest of the kit (Touch of Radiance) and your buildcrafting (Aptitude and Ineptitude)

[teal dagger]

I'd like Boon to move away from being such a significant healing source and move toward actually interesting buffs, the healing has always overshadowed the fact that you get all sorts of other buffs

[rose atlas]

what was that hierophant move that buffed everyone?

[teal dagger]

Regen is fine to have since it is far less exploitable as opposed to ih/absorption

[short adder]

@radiant isle I think if the oldheads really enjoy gamba Heavenly Boon, that it'd be interesting to expand the pool of buffs to more effects beyond the 3-5 we have now

[teal dagger]

and of course buffing DJ healing to be more active would solve the loss of healing

[forest lion]

You mean the cleric skill celestial blessings

[light kayak]

idk in what way perma regen 1 is getting overshadowed honestly its a massive fucking buff, always has been and will be

[rose atlas]

The hierophant move that stacked buffs when not getting hit?

[short adder]

All of the old Thurible buffs made it into Seraph's kit in some fashion

[light kayak]

not rly

far from actually

its drastically different now

[short adder]

I wouldn't mind Haste 1 being a Heavenly Boon potion effect though

[radiant isle]

adding fire resistance and jump boost and calling it a day

[light kayak]

JUMP BOOST

god forbid we play melee

[radiant isle]

it's a buff I swear

[rose atlas]

lr paladin will exist

[light kayak]

well i would not refuse fire res

[plush stone]

I don't think that the density is THAT much lower in the first 2 regions compared to r3. The boon nerf was easily the most felt in r2; since that region has frankly appalling balance currently and cleric was over relying on boon to get through mobs that regularly do 50+ damage with normal attacks (not even considering anything the delve powers can let them achieve). So I don't think its a "harmless" trade in r2 at all, its a severe nerf no matter how much more consistent it is on paper. I dont blame you for nerfing the skill in the first place since it was very polarizing on the classes balance though.

[short adder]

Thurible's strength -> Ascension Orb Strength
Thurible's attack speed - Ascension Orb Haste
Thurible's movement speed -> Keeper Virtue speed aura