Twisted #̵̍͑$̶̄͝%̶̲̕@̶͆̅$̸̑́#̵͂̈́%̵̾@ feedback thread

[supple turtle]

i can understand your mage pain

[fervent fox]

im mage too

[supple turtle]

but overall i don't feel it health bloat

[blissful dock]

what build?

[polar narwhal]

It was 2 player when I started coding it

[fervent fox]

ele earrow

[blissful dock]

suicide arc on my end, so absurd burst damage and almost fully infused set

and it still just drags on and on, while mobs also just Tank everything casually for no reason in particular

[void crown]

I believe this is already going to be the case week 2 from a suggestion

[supple turtle]

Faceless one 200hp, elite 1300, box 2000, boss 25000

[fervent fox]

i think my set does like 700dmg without buffs with 3 cmourn shots

at least when i tested it on dummy

tho it does throw out starfall stats out of the bus for it

[deep kayak]

my set does like 450 per hit

[fervent fox]

my solo with it took slightly less than 12m and i don't think it's too bad

[deep kayak]

dps is nice to have but certainly not needed

[blissful dock]

faceless one is the minion that falls from roof yea? I think those ones would actually deserve small HP buff since you are meant to avoid them
But everything else just has too much

[deep kayak]

like its so much faster tho

[supple turtle]

yes

the wither skeleton that my friend keep complain looks like boss

[deep kayak]

boss has a ton of dr i think

[supple turtle]

doesn't feel like it

[fervent fox]

i think faceless is kinda unavoidable at one point so it's hard to say it's meant to be dodged all the time

[blissful dock]

I think that's the point and I like how they act as distractions

[supple turtle]

do u know buff u pick during Nightmare Carving also give to boss (exclude 3rd one i think)

[supple turtle]

yeah so i am fine with them

[blissful dock]

yes I said that in the big message

which is why again, Damage and CDR is the main ones, they are barely noticable while something like DR just makes the fight drag on for even longer than it already does

[fervent fox]

how long did your fights last

as duo mines were def less than 10m i think

[cloud garnet]

speed buffs help you with dodging other attacks and damage buff is additive as a consumable buff for you while being multiplicative for the boss so its also not as great as it seems

[midnight ruin]

I like to pick res and speed too from time to time

[cloud garnet]

and none of the last 3 buffs affect the boss

[fervent fox]

is reviving after ex dungeon intentional?

[midnight ruin]

Res was very useful when we had elites alive, speed I view as a no-bullshit buff, you don't become weaker but you also don't become vulnerable

[cloud garnet]

and cdr is not good enough for you to always pick it since a lot of classes dont benefit from it

[dusty kayak]

?!

cdr is like really awesome

[cloud garnet]

not on warrior that doent build only mslam

[fervent fox]

for classes like bers ig it's not too useful

[dusty kayak]

ig yeah

[cloud garnet]

and reincarnation seems way better to me

[blissful dock]

even if multiplicative, the damage bonus on boss was barely noticable

[blissful dock]

Res literally increases the duration of fight, it screws you up more than helps,
As for Speed ig if your build has none or barely any by default, though my arca build literally has 5% speed bonus and I don't struggle with dodging anything

[midnight ruin]

I'd rather the fight lasts longer than die

[deep kayak]

honestly i like res

the main issue it feels like are the elites not the actual boss

[icy raven]

can anyone confirm if the changes made the tantrum fair?

[deep kayak]

it still does way too much dmg but

[void crown]

Res felt like the best option for me. I am a fan of picking cdr, but I'm tempted to try healing out

[deep kayak]

less bs

[fervent fox]

easier to distance

[slow drum]

has anyone gotten to the section where it spawns Tormenteds with a Reaper

it feels like Twisted Prosecutor mandates that you can place blocks to break LoS and slow yourself down but ofc not possible in this environment

[deep kayak]

@frogvis

@rancid bramble

[slow drum]

perhaps if a prosecutor spawns then summon big ass spikes from the ground to serve as LoS blockers?

[blissful dock]

one time it was picked instead of what I was going for (like it often does) and it's 25% bonus, do with that what you will

[glass ingot]

it spawns other twisteds than ranger and vanguard?

when i was doing it i reached the phase like 5+ times and it was always these 2

[slow drum]

it’s the two corresponding to your players

[glass ingot]

oh that makes sense lol

[slow drum]

hence why i said “with a Reaper”

[glass ingot]

cool mechanic tbh

also, a quick question. do the add mobs spawned from the start have dr?

[slow drum]

(i actually Armory’ed to Arcanist during one run just to avoid dealing with Deadeye)

[glass ingot]

My stormborn shots were doing 50 damage before any resistance buffs were picked up

but they do 90 outside

[blissful dock]

oh yeah @fervent fox you said you play ele,
hows Tormented ele?
in normal play I always run away from the Galactic Collider because it's BS and not worth the effort, is it managable in the boss?

[fervent fox]

tormented ele is rly ez

[glass ingot]

deadeye was threatening but manageable with pstrike and constant dps. Pstrike itself is easy to dodge if you just run in a circle

[blissful dock]

alr that's chill then

[fervent fox]

it was basically free for me

[blissful dock]

didn't said it in the main message but I do love how you also get to fight your own Tormented, dueling Arcanist is so funny

Although my teammate was Apoth and that Tormented is just obnoxious to all hell and back

[fervent fox]

if tormented knew earrow meta it would've been lot harder fr

[slow drum]

wait what the fungus would spiritcaller do

does it actually grow trees

[deep kayak]

erm

[blissful dock]

[glass ingot]

did anyone else experience the add mobs taking less damage than they should for seemingly no reason?

before any res was picked up my stormborn dealt 50 damage per shot, when it deals 70-90 with sharpshooter on dummies

[fervent fox]

there is a debuff that decreases your dmg so maybe that

[slow drum]

did you exit Cognitive Distortion by timing out instead of the intentional way

[glass ingot]

no

there were no debuffs on me at that time in fact

i checked

[rancid bramble]

this boss feels like an alternate timeline where instead of plugin monu just developed slightly more complex bosstags and functions

very cool, the red glass is invisible to me though for whatever reason

i do wish warlock was better here but like oh well

[rancid bramble]

there are some very impressive attacks though, like the scythe circles.

i do not care how it is made and if it is just a series of sideways circles or whatever it looks amazing

visuals are on point for the most part

i like kinda have sound off so no comment on that

[tranquil oyster]

actually get to grow its trees before it dies, predominantly

[whole lava]

They nerfed the spawns down last night

So it should be more doable

Or rather fixed a bug I think

[polar narwhal]

The boss has no DR except for during abhorrent hallucination, which is telegraphed with loud smoke sounds

[whole lava]

I should have been more specific, I think that the constant mobs that come out of the cube give some urgency to that phase. There’s a lot to take care of and while you can take your time, it encourages the group to get through that phase out of necessity.

After playing it post-fix, it doesn’t ruin the fight to have less mobs, but I don’t think capping the amount of mobs or making them only spawn during certain health thresholds is the correct thing to do

[deep kayak]

oh

does it have dmg buffs

[polar narwhal]

wdym

[whole lava]

Is one of the advancements deleted

[polar narwhal]

Yes

[whole lava]

The three heads one mind

[polar narwhal]

Three Heads one mind is not supposed to be there

@dusty kayak poke pls remove it -w-

also continue in #spoiler-chat

[whole lava]

👍

[supple turtle]

what...

[dusty kayak]

oki

file is deleted

[robust ice]

I think after another few attempts at it that i've just come to the conclusion that something is fundamentally not working for me and jade and our builds. We just cannot keep up in any sense of the word.

I once again don't really know what the solution here is other than swapping to the bers setup that seems to be working wonders for people but that just feels cheap in my mind (and obviously the reduced mobs have helped the phase feel less ridiculous)

[dusty kayak]

what are yall playing?

[fervent fox]

what build

[robust ice]

Assassin and Elementalist, im running the sustain life drain build that has relatively good damage and a half decent amount of ehp (~200ish).

Jade is running the full tank elementalist build. She has like 600 EHP

[dusty kayak]

hmm
i was playing that with flowey and it went okay

[fervent fox]

maybe get some more magic dmg?

[dusty kayak]

I was playing a much more offensive assassin build (dps charms, 150 melee / 120 proj / 200 magic ehp but i have cloaked 1) and it went okay

you need to use stealth as good as possible

[fervent fox]

ive been running 100% without infusions

[dusty kayak]

if mobs are on you start running and if you need to, bodkin to get them off you

ele can take the boss' aggro so you can hit it safely from behind

[robust ice]

I am at the point with this where I think it's just a skill issue after the changes (although I appreciate the wall color change and mob reduction which makes things more reasonable)

[dusty kayak]

for aggro swaps you need to just run off, and then bodkin when the other person is next to the boss so it changes aggro

[fervent fox]

my duos were scout/ele and bers/ele and i believe bers ele isnt that diff from ass ele

[dusty kayak]

bers ele is very different from assassin

[fervent fox]

is it

[robust ice]

I don't think I will ever have the ability to do this boss and that is ok I suppose. We'll keep trying for a long while further but it's just not within my scope of gameplay

[dusty kayak]

assassin is supposed to kill elites and dps boss, it shouldn't really touch everything else unless possible

[fervent fox]

i mean our bers was basically the dps

[robust ice]

I am consistently doing that. Jade has trouble keeping up with the amount of enemies that spawned prior to tonight and even after we still just get swarmed

🤷 it's alright. It's just a fight we're not capable of beating atm

[dusty kayak]

fair enough

[robust ice]

I might try to swap over to bers because i've heard way better things related to it

[dusty kayak]

bers lets you do assassin things while still being able to aoe

[robust ice]

class balancing moment

[dusty kayak]

yep

[robust ice]

I really hate that bers has just become "rogue but better" at this point

[supple turtle]

would like to mention your teamate wear full tank which doesn't sound like have enough dmg to kill thing

[robust ice]

it's kinda a mix of damage and tank

[dusty kayak]

the cz setup for mage is pretty good
don't know what she's using

[fervent fox]

600 ehp does sound like it's not gonna do a lot of dmg

[dusty kayak]

no infusions

[ornate mica]

the fight does have a lot of anti heal
so even if you have massive ehp if you can't kill things and heal back up you're just getting chipped to death

[supple turtle]

btw what buff your team choose

[robust ice]

We consistently choose either speed or resist

I think the damage one is somewhat of a trap as we're already getting slaughtered

[supple turtle]

i would see it as because your team can't kill mob, so i'll pick dmg to hope reach breakpoint

[robust ice]

We can try that

[supple turtle]

not really ask player to change class, but maybe give build and we can swap something

[robust ice]

Idk it sucks that i'm getting tips on how to update my build while logged off in the instance because leaving means I can't come back

I know this is like godspore in that way but I kinda do wish you could leave and return due to the much harder difficulty

[icy raven]

technically

[robust ice]

I think that also just goes into the larger "swapping builds in r3 sucks" problem

[icy raven]

someone can mail you gear from your own plot

[supple turtle]

if u trust someone

^

[robust ice]

that is the silliest work around i've ever heard but that is correct

[fervent fox]

people that have more than 2 braincell not gonna steal or break stuff when co i exists tbh

[robust ice]

/tr wtb pack mule to mail me items from my plot paying 1har/5 minutes

[icy raven]

ill do it for free

[robust ice]

💀 i was mostly joking but that is pretty funny

[wanton dock]

dunno why you would run full tank but even arcanist worked well for me for clear, let alone elementalist which inherently is more fit for this boss' spawn pattern
sure, it's not scout which works almost flawlessly, but it works

[robust ice]

I think at this point it's just a skill issue on our end

[wanton dock]

i'll be writing my feedback now soon™️ after 10 comps

[cloud lance]

From a technical level, there's not much we can do about that, short of putting the boss on its own shard. We could let you leave, but you'd almost certainly corrupt your access score doing something else

[robust ice]

I do appreciate the visibility changes though

the pink walls are infinitely better to see

[icy raven]

Could you theoretically allow only access to the playerplots shard, and going out of it would lose the instance?

[cloud lance]

MR, Portal, Godspore, and Twisted all use the same access score (since they are all overworld instanced)

[willow plaza]

leaving the ring shard is more the issue than which place you leave to

[cloud lance]

Not really, because your instance only exists on that specific ring shard you're on. Not just any ring shard

[robust ice]

Yeah I imagine setting up a seperate shard for this would be a major pain in the ass but I do think it would be good for "hard level" content like this. Obviously though the level of work required for a not-significant benefit is clear

[willow plaza]

it's gonna be a more significant memory consumption, which means decreased resources for dev/test servers/other play shards, so it's a tradeoff

[robust ice]

Anyway in terms of overall feedback the boss visually and thematically is extremely cool. I especially love the screamroom and the overload attack for forcing you off certain areas of the playing field

[willow plaza]

a shard has a minimum consumption, a world in an existing shard has a lower minimum consumption

[wanton dock]

10 twisted comps later, I can finally make some sort of comprehensible feedback

• The flying swords. I might not fully understand the attack but from my perspective it's just 3 unkillable mobs that fly at you and do chip damage. Seriously? Unavoidable unkillable chip damage? I think this is a very cheap, annoying, and outright boring way to force more ehp, I believe the swords are better off being removed entirely.
• The elites. Now, some of them are outliers like the combo guy who forces you to either pass its dps check or run away, or the jumping guy who outright does way too much damage for something with this kind of aoe and aiming, or the speed guy who is also impossible to dodge because of his speed so it's a hard dps/ehp check. Overall, I don't think elites should be this much of a threat throughout the fight. Naturally, hallucination phases being generally bloated with lots of attacks adds on to that but I believe these elites are at times stronger than the boss itself and any of its attacks.

Since this has been overly negative so far here are some good parts of this boss which overall, I believe, are the majority:

• Amalgamating dreamscape is a very fun and unexpected attack, fits the boss theming perfectly (although please tune down the orange miniboss, idk if that's just me but it feels 10x harder than the rest combined)
• Overall it's just a fun fight. Some edge cases aside where the odds are just bullshit, it's a pretty skill-based and entertaining fight.

[dusty kayak]

couldn't we use a new score?

do the redis thing with daccess
set new score = daccess
then use that score to enter and leave, and have it reset same as daccess

[cloud lance]

As in using a dummy access score that DR3Access copies from during entrance?

[dusty kayak]

yeah

all it'd need is a new objective

[cloud lance]

Hm... We could probably make that work, but you'd need to be careful about it. Things like strikes fundamentally operate assuming there is no re-entrance, so it'd need to be a case by case basis

I had been thinking of a similar system though for when we inevitably combine dungeons into single shards

Anyway, point being it just needs to make sure that you can't totally bungle your scores by going and doing something else. The dummy score would also need to be hooked into the automation code

And instances still wouldn't survive weekly update

[robust ice]

This would be fine

I think especially as Monumenta moves into harder content like this we should be able to enter and leave during the week especially if we want to swap builds

Once again though, It would have to be both feasible and worth the time investment

[long pond]

I feel like the quest step to use the bottle on the items on the table needs to reworded

[vivid garnet]

yeah

i thought i neede to do smt with floating shadows

[supple turtle]

^

[vivid garnet]

which i only noticed after turning around cuz i looked at the quest giver and so nothing special but quest progressed

[meager token]

Could you please make it so the boss won't cast Screamroom until you pick a boon?

Also, just a slightly longer (2s maybe) charge-up time for Parasomnic Mist.

[slow drum]

why does Parasomnic have a decharging time

it seems to charge -> cast -> charge and then end

there’s one funny interaction here

[supple turtle]

Beside mist I don't really think other skill deserve skull emoji

[slow drum]

which is that when Stillwater launches you out of the water and you pass through a Faceless Shadow circle it can just spawn them with no opportunity for the player to avoid it

[supple turtle]

Not that deadly

[slow drum]

Faceless Shadows aren’t that big of a deal so it’s eh? but it still seems unintended

[slow drum]

carvings

[supple turtle]

Oh yeah that one really straight kill u

[ebon dagger]

where do u get tormented fragments or smth

[meager token]

To what % do I need to raise my particles so the white pillar appears too?

Because rn for me only the black circle is visible.

[fervent fox]

make a guess by its name

[craggy radish]

100% drops from tormenteds

[ebon dagger]

oh

[craggy radish]

(twisted specs)

[ebon dagger]

so its really annoying to run again rip

[fervent fox]

uwuwu has stonk

[dusty kayak]

Everything is at 100% for me afaik

[blissful dock]

curiosity, what's the HP difference between solo/duo

[slow drum]

0

and the DR difference is also 0

[blissful dock]

so you just stab yourself in the back for no reason?

[slow drum]

yah

[pale creek]

Its not designed for solo but its not anti solo either

[blissful dock]

literally every other boss in game has changes to acomodate for solo, why does this one NOT ?

[slow drum]

okay well hallucination spawns half the mobs

[slow drum]

the hycenea in question

[pale creek]

Orasomn construct ruten hycenea be like

[blissful dock]

🤨

[slow drum]

and you only get one tormented at 10k / 11k

[slow drum]

does godspore even have any

[blissful dock]

psure his HP also gets shot

[pale creek]

Didnt notice that

[prisma haven]

(sporruption is the only difference)

[pale creek]

For gspore

[blissful dock]

oh dam

so guess r3 bosses just don't care about solo, ic

[slow drum]

also the mechanic to escape from the gray place is different

[pale creek]

Idk this one atleast doesnt concentrate all of its anima and all that

[slow drum]

instead of hug your friend it’s go to mid

[pale creek]

Only anti solo i see is dps race at the end if you aren't playing a dps class

[slow drum]

yeah i like that it punishes solo only via real mechanics and not just fuck you for being solo

[meager token]

I'm surprised Jeremy doesn't have anti-Scout mechanics.

I thought we all hated Scouts here, but Jeremy is actually decent, despite supposed to be evil incarnate.

[slow drum]

it’s the Tormented

[pale creek]

And thats still beatable

[slow drum]

but generally the Jeremy arena is not scout cheesable

the attacks will reach you regardless

the fella is fast and mobs rain from the sky

[pale creek]

Watchman was not a major threat non scaled and with buffs from carvings

Which was super satisfying after all grief it caused in pois

[meager token]

Deadeye is very easy in such an open arena.

Twisted Ninetails too poses no threat.

[dusty kayak]

It does..?

[pale creek]

Cuz they arent scaled and you are scaled

[dusty kayak]

cognitive has a solo thing
and afaik theres less mobs that spawn when alone during hallucination cube

[meager token]

Btw how do you avoid debuffs from Cognitive when solo?

[slow drum]

middle

[dusty kayak]

theres a blue circle

[cloud garnet]

there is a place you have to go to

instead of a person

[dusty kayak]

yeah

[slow drum]

actually

can yall put a fake person at the middle

[dusty kayak]

i have no clue if its in middle

[cloud garnet]

id guess its random

[slow drum]

or wherever it is that you need to go when solo

[meager token]

Btw, Cognitive is epic

Invisible glowing Striders with stacked Shulkers make for surprisingly "unsettling" mobs

Kinda what you might see in analog horror

[night galleon]

cognitive feels unfair to solo players, compared to duos. With two players you can just run off to a side, away from the mobs, score time while moving. When solo you have to go to a static point right in the middle, surrounded by 12 (?) mobs, and stand there for a few seconds anyway.

[pale creek]

^

[void crown]

What if the circle was moving akin to Parasomnic

[pale creek]

Just make it so you have to go there at the end of cognitive

[ornate mica]

I don’t think solo is something that is balanced around to begin with tbh

[pale creek]

And not stand there

Considering that circle exists solo is atleast considered

[whole lava]

this tbh

I also think one of the advancements is bugged

[pale creek]

And well there is an achievement

[pale creek]

There is no difficulty coming from me just waiting out the debuffs

Zero

Its simply timer stretching exercise

[ornate mica]

I’m a big solo enjoyer but
I’m neutral on if bosses need solo measures
If it is better without like Hycenea then oh well

[pale creek]

I mean measure is there

Its just not functional rn imo

[wanton dock]

nerf cyan mslam elite day 1

[vivid garnet]

just died to the follow circle attack but the scariest elite was the last one

inescapable smt

it nearly had enough speed to chase me down on scout

[long pond]

Technically mslam elite has already been nerfed once

Albeit that was a result of a bug

But yeah, that thing is seriously annoying

Idk what I’m doing wrong, ppl keep claiming bers cheeses the boss but from my experience cyan elite just kicks my ass

[whole lava]

Just run away from it when it’s jumping and other than that you can sit on it

[mental cloak]

Died 2022 born 2025
Welcome back cshura jumping simulator

[long pond]

Might be a skill issue but i have no idea how to tell when its jumping

[void crown]

I think it does it immediately after the charge which is filled with conduit particles I think

[long pond]

Maybe i should swap to a build with more movespeed

[shy glacier]

I GBed away when it did the slams. It is not very fast, and it seems the boss only moves in small increments when performing the slam

Oh yeah, I finally got my first comp. The boss was very fun, but a small area I was not that big of a fan on was the red/pink floor + circle phase. I had two runs (including my successful run) where the circle spawned across the arena. It's really frustrating when you have a good run ruined by the circle being just too far to reach: in my successful run, I had to burn my revive and a PI potion or two to live

The EX bosses were fun. It was really intense for me, as the flight of the EX LB boss messed my GB + MS combo a lot. I literally beat the EX LB boss with less than 3 seconds left before the instant death timer went off

I did also get the EX Yellow boss on a different instance. I lost that one because I literally couldn't find the boss. In general, I am not too sure about the EX Yellow boss. It seems to always hide

[hoary trellis]

Its kinda fun to see people having very differing experiences with the boss

[shy glacier]

If there is one thing I am appreciative of, it is that the boss scales down (it seems) when your partner dies. My successful run had me doing the last 60%-70% of the boss's HP myself, and I would have suffered so much more if I had to deal with double the mobs

[hoary trellis]

Only mob spawn rates scale down

[meager token]

Parasomnic + Jeffrey is one hell of a combo

It only sucks when the ring changes direction as Jeffrey is about to slash at you. (Also, I increased my boss particles from 25% to 50% and now the white pillar is visible.)

[vivid garnet]

second time dying to parasomnic now

its really hard to notice the direction early enough

especially with how many overlaping rings there are

some arrow for direction would very cool

[devout star]

Arcanist is a meta aoe class . Maybe the setup is the problem . It does really well in the fight .I have done it multiple times with duo arcanist.

[cunning island]

My first clear of the boss was on solo bers, with a fairly tanky sustain build

It felt pretty easy as you can reliably face tank most of the fight especially if you take the resistance

Tbh, I'm not sure how you would not just face tank it solo, as there are a lot of adds and stray attacks, so I can understand that being a concern

[timid steppe]

can we maybe remove the ex lb boss float. it kinda feels bad to grind through the entire fight only to lose to that b/c I literally cannot hit the ex lb guy with anything

[cunning island]

Overall it felt difficult, but also fair. I enjoyed it

[timid steppe]

like rng'ing lb feels so sucky

[cunning island]

Also this, I almost got cooked on bers cause I couldn't reach him luckily he flew into a cobweb

[hoary trellis]

the lb ex boss is kinda cooked yeah

most of the time they just float out of reach

[pale creek]

I died once cuz i got kbd into web in lb lol

[meager token]

It should act like more the orange boss; bodyslamming into you.

[pale creek]

Orange boss is goofy

It just says you are getting hit today and you are gonna like it

[meager token]

Greyskull meanwhile: "I'll just hang in the back while my peons do the job"

[pale creek]

Who out of you all is exien?

[tranquil oyster]

I properly fought him for the first time earlier today and I have no idea how he got out of your range

I walloped him the whole time as he just floated in a spot

(and took like no damage because my build has Magic Prot 7 but that's besides the point)

[meager token]

(EX Light Blue boss when I'm built to tank long range magic attacks: )

[icy raven]

Parasomtic mist should cancel any other abilities he is casting.
its quite hard to see the ring you need to go to when hes in the middle of Cerebral overcharge and its unfair if you have to stand inside of Conduit.

Also cerebral overcharge has similar particles to the ring you have to stand inside so you really cant find it

[meager token]

It's also a little cheap when Jeffrey slashes at you right as the ring changes directions, since worst case you either need to take damage from Jeffrey or be forced into the mist as you're standing on the edge to dodge.

[pale creek]

Is haunted now Jeffrey

[meager token]

yes

[pale creek]

Works

[meager token]

Jeremy & Jeffrey

[timid steppe]

That's nice
I've fought him 4 times and 3 of the times hes floated up like 20 blocks away in the air

[cunning island]

Even floating up like 10-15 blocks will cook meele

[timid steppe]

The 4th time he still did that but I barely managed to tickle him down using the bridge

[pale creek]

Just unlock specs in r1

Or zircane on main

[timid steppe]

The issue is the time limit

Either there needs to be no time limit or I should be able to consistently reach him with attacks
The consistently part is important there

[void crown]

Out of curiosity what class are you running?

[long pond]

I made the mistake of going in with a squishier build i guess

Ive been doing a mix of meteor slam + gb combo when its available and doing gb flyby passthroughs, and then running off to eat food

[cunning island]

What's your build

To be fair, my build has a lot of charms invested in sustain/resistance

[dusty kayak]

true

[cunning island]

Fecund berry on top

[dusty kayak]

fecund berry is crazy

[cunning island]

Unironcally great charm

[dusty kayak]

probably yeah but offensive stuff >>>>

[cunning island]

Makes kapple more or less a full heal

[timid steppe]

Arcanist

[cunning island]

Well tbh, I feel like on bers you don't really need the offense, especially in this boss as you will be getting hit a lot meleeing it

[timid steppe]

Which has more reach then melee 😭

[pastel mural]

I think its fine if you instead just reduce the anti range on the ex blue boss

[void crown]

I was wondering if it was some weird thing with assassin stealth, not sure why it'd be floating up so high without that, he never went higher than like 4-5 blocks off the ground for me

[arctic tulip]

Playing this on the Tanky side made me realize some of the differing opinions. For me, the Swords and Walls barely did any damage to me, so I was able to admire how cool the chaos of the fight was and that made me respect the Bosses's mechanics. However, it's cause I can't dish out that much damage that it feels like a slap fight that takes ages with the adds and each miniboss feeling like it takes 4 minutes to take them out :/

Meanwhile, I hear the stories here about people able to take out the Glowy minibosses in a flash and it just makes me think that if you have both Tanky people, you will get the opinion of "eh, it's cool, but just not for me"

That and if you don’t have the DPS, it's going to feel a wholeeee lot more unfair with the mounting number of adds or how long those Magenta and Blue Minibosses live for

Oh, also, I can now say, thank you for adding a boss where using an Offhand Shield actually feels useful. There are so many bosses that just have all attacks that are unblockable, but having all of the adds not put your shield on cooldown feels so good ;w;

I've had to repair my shield with an anvil for some instances xD

[pale creek]

Going full tank here is a mistake i think

[hoary trellis]

dps race gonna make you cry in full tank set

[pale creek]

I already cried in full dps ranger

Also my fps went to buy milk at that stage

Idk why

[wanton dock]

Not to sound rude but wtf did you expect from running a tank build 😭 😭 😭
Like. Yeah a boss is faster if you do more damage. Yeah it spawns mobs that, if not killed, stack up. Revolutionary right?

if anything this boss encourages builds to be significantly tankier than any other

because you're just not dodging everything

[pale creek]

Theres balance

You want damage but not full damage

[hoary trellis]

if you think about it
this boss is like the complete opposite of hycenea

(I love it)

[pale creek]

I think it is what hycenea should have been

[hot yacht]

yeah even though its just as scripted it feels better

i think hf just gives way too much downtime

[pale creek]

Hexfall is rigid and very set in stone

You do this or you die

This is also a bit more of a bullet hell boss and i love that

[arctic tulip]

Yea, but it feels like being detrimental or a burden to your partner if you go Tank, because of that. It makes you think, "I have to play a different set than what I normally play, just so that me and my buddy don't get swarmed by adds during the other mechanics"

[hoary trellis]

I think you can have tanky enough build while having decent dmg

[arctic tulip]

Not if your an Offhand Shield user :I

[vivid garnet]

inside of conduit?

[mental cloak]

Ay beat the boss solo time to give biased tcleric opinion
Very easy
Like, very very easy as thorns cleric
(Why does the boss deal no melee damage?)
Even the funny jumper elite that people were complaining about the damage of, you can tank super easy
I still died a few times, but only because I wasn't playing particularly safe
Even the -healing sections were not particularly bad since you have enough speed to wait it out - or just use cleasing rain, it's not like you really need crusade in this fight (I didn't think of this till later though)
The mob swarm that would normally hurt the player and force them to have some AOE, is practically free healing.
The only attack you can't deal with is Screamroom, which has the drawback of a debuff that you can wait out or cleanse. It should probably increase the debuff every time you fail. I was still killing it rarely if I had enough luminous stocked up though, so it's not particularly scary either way.

in short please consider giving the boss true damage resistance :3
Great boss really fun

[wanton dock]

yeah you can

[wanton dock]

"very very easy"

looks inside
"thorns cleric"

[mental cloak]

Oh right one minor complaint - can you give Greyskull glowing of some kind since I couldnt identify him at all in the sea of yellow mobs

And I think he spawns on black glass too making him mostly invisible
He still tracked me just fine so it ended up being okay though

[shy glacier]

Me losing because I literally could not find Greyskull

[pale creek]

Would be better to remove a core issue of thorns cleric existence

So to not have to design every boss around it

And also give normal cleric more options to build

[ebon dagger]

fr just delete thorns cleric

[idle tree]

Yeah I’ve had to use a knock back shield to hit him to get stuck in a place before I start dpsing him, if you mslam at all he will fly up to you and never come down

[pale creek]

Idk why they deleted blizzard if that stays

[idle tree]

I just stick him in the window to the right of where he spawns

[mental cloak]

I agree cleric should lose cleansing rain and get a cooler purification ability

[pale creek]

Yea cleansing rain is definitely the issue

Could rework it to cleansing armor

[hoary trellis]

Remove sanctified armor

I want something cooler

[pale creek]

And all cleric abils can just be more thorns fuel because why not

Fuck playing the game just afk it

[mental cloak]

well there's a difference between click and you get passive damage without even trying and having your healthbar look like a rollercoaster

[pale creek]

Yea lets just ignore the fact that you also have 800 ehp

And benefit from some fucked up infusion

[mental cloak]

reflection my beloved

https://tenor.com/view/hanchi-hanci-cat-cat-pet-cat-pat-gif-25342194

[hoary trellis]

Throns dmg should not be able to proc boon

[ebon dagger]

yes yes

[mental cloak]

It explicitly does not

[pale creek]

Cleric suffered because thorns exists and yet it did not fix the issue

[hoary trellis]

Nani

[pale creek]

It wasnt even related lol

[mental cloak]

idrc if cleric ends up getting a cool new ability in place of sanct
I just like turn brain off playstyles

[pale creek]

Its ok to have turn brain off playstyle

[mental cloak]

So uh idk give it a target to heal and buff which turns it into damage

benefits double from buffs or smth

[pale creek]

Its not okay when that cheeses stuff that otherwise is a cool bossfight

[hoary trellis]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1195111357046071439/1358919676758851674/twitter_1909253241042264559.gif

[pale creek]

Idk blizzard rework in same position

[hoary trellis]

I want my icicle barrage

[pale creek]

Give cleric spark of inspiration instead

[hoary trellis]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/540433229136527362/1369094593571852308/GqKBNXTbgAAlr3b.gif

[pale creek]

Aimlabs elementalist

[hoary trellis]

Yes please

[mental cloak]

it's kinda boring but I guess it fits

maybe not the full heal.

that would be slightly

Honestly it seems more like a hierophant ability than a cleric ability

[pale creek]

Its only full heal if target is abt to die

Prayer to cleric and spark to hiero?

[mental cloak]

[pale creek]

Spark gives cdr

[mental cloak]

no I get that but isn't it 100% healing

[pale creek]

If target or dawn is about to die it full heals and effect ends

[mental cloak]

To both targets, no less

[mental cloak]

You're thinking of resistance

Unless the cz page is outdated

[pale creek]

Mayhaps

Im not usually playing dawn

[pale creek]

It can be tuned down ofc if its outside cz

[mental cloak]

I think blessing someone with cdr passively and granting a lifeline is good
Maybe it could also make them able to use your cleric passives
Boon, crusade marking, DJ

[pale creek]

Yea

Make mobs teammate attacks during duration mark mobs maybe

Idk how op that would be

[vivid garnet]

doesnt cbless already do that

[pale creek]

Kinda

Do cbless affected teammates mark enemies

[mental cloak]

It's hard to say

By just the description it says "triggers crusade when attacking while blessed" but do blessed people even have crusade to trigger?

[vivid garnet]

that is the question

[tranquil oyster]

it's the complete opposite of Hexfall on the whole

[robust ice]

Another hour/hour and a half of attempts in and we still have only had 1 run get past the 2nd box. Jade died in the middle of it and I got past the 3rd box (which frankly felt easier) and the first "special" attack. Lost to the second (the ring one) as I assumed it was a little more forgiving than it actually was

[deep kayak]

also the thing is that

key cost

4 tormented frags is too much

should be either raw har or tormented frags

[robust ice]

Yeah it feels like it will be a little excessive in the future

[ebon dagger]

the win rate is too low for that key cost

[supple turtle]

?

u have infinte amount attempt

[deep kayak]

^

[supple turtle]

tbh where u even get the winrate

[robust ice]

So far i'd say we've spent about 4 hours on it with no success. We'll keep trying for sure (and I think the second half of the fight is pretty manageable) but man is that second box still pretty painful with everything else going on

I think by win rate they mean amount of runs turned into a successful win and not just leaving

[deep kayak]

u want to nuke blue second it spawns

[mental cloak]

[deep kayak]

u can do the boss in like 6 minutes

[supple turtle]

second box elite is indeed annoy

[mental cloak]

are you quitting after every failed attempt lol

[supple turtle]

jumping archer, jumping bers, jumping... warlock?

[robust ice]

Lol we are getting double that time on an assassin and elementalist setup

[supple turtle]

take your time

i don't think i ever been to 6 min

[ebon dagger]

its not low the win rate
i mean the key is unusually expensive for a boss thats way harder than like gs lol

6 min is like with max stuff

[supple turtle]

so what u mean is harder content should have lower key fee

[robust ice]

i generally agree with this for non-dungeon content

[ebon dagger]

well
not exactly
but maybe reduce the cost to like 2 frags idk

or get rid of 48ar

[supple turtle]

legend said we'll have no frag cost when week 2 arrive

[deep kayak]

ele is rly good for boss lol

[supple turtle]

but given how enhance twist work i do perfer it get lower

[deep kayak]

its like bers > scout ele > anything else

[supple turtle]

doesn't find fighting enhance twist fun

[ebon dagger]

its the only time ive ever actually like grinded out frags lol
what do they even do besides key

[robust ice]

what are we doing wrong teach us

[small zinc]

more classes works in this boss which feels nice

[mental cloak]

key

[small zinc]

compare to hf

[ebon dagger]

idk true but the bers dps build is kinda too glassy

[deep kayak]

use earrows covenmourn

[robust ice]

she has that

[deep kayak]

ik u need reflexes

[deep kayak]

then take it slow

[mental cloak]

use thorns cleric

[deep kayak]

ur assassin right, for assassin u need to focus on elites

[supple turtle]

maybe we can have more clear idea if u can record it

[deep kayak]

and dont bother with adds on assassin

[ebon dagger]

i find it better to sub to like agi bers gear with bforce charms and pauldron for healing

[robust ice]

yeah I have been ofc

what should she be doing then i guess

[deep kayak]

it doesnt work solo

[ebon dagger]

mob killing

[deep kayak]

u need someone else to aggro

[ebon dagger]

yeah

[robust ice]

I've been mostly focusing down elites and she's been aggroing

[deep kayak]

kill mobs with mage spells

[ebon dagger]

thats why i dont do solo

[small zinc]

also did anyone make english ver boss ability yet

[robust ice]

keep in mind we have no problem with any phase except the second box

[deep kayak]

and try use cmourn with good range and focus on dodging first

[ebon dagger]

aggro/aoe ig

[deep kayak]

what charms is she running

[supple turtle]

what if u translate my 👀

[robust ice]

I have no clue but I think I got her one of the ele arrows ones

[small zinc]

I found out funny that people sometimes ignore mech when duo-ing and debuff kill me

[ebon dagger]

id say just manage your resources and make sure you have bodkin for when elites spawn

and cloak!

[small zinc]

that's da way

[supple turtle]

i was thinking about just put into ai then my first part above 2000 word limit then i feel fuck it

[ebon dagger]

also use spec weapons for em if u aint already

[robust ice]

yeah she has the starfall semi-nuke charm, the ele arrows one, and the fire cone one

[deep kayak]

i tried with voidrim and honestly ill just use shrouded

[deep kayak]

true

[deep kayak]

u want vambrace

[robust ice]

guh

[velvet coral]

most likely a lack of inherent sustain in your build forcing you to bleed pacing

[robust ice]

I have life drain on my build

[deep kayak]

https://ohthemisery.vercel.app/builder/m=None&o=None&h=None&c=None&l=None&b=None&charm=Iro-mbrace-2-M,Ley-onduit-4-M,Gre-mental-2-M,Les-mental-1-M,Cry-_Havoc-1-M,Gre-ritual-2-M

[ebon dagger]

i wonder how abisso would do on the bers build
u can prob sub out tarris offhand for something tankier (idk whats tankier than bodkin but anyways)

[deep kayak]

also yeah u need a lot of sustain

[deep kayak]

bad

[ebon dagger]

ok

[velvet coral]

I use LD and Regen and Sage BDance but still need to back out sometimes

[wanton dock]

Second hallucination is the worst part of the fight

By far

[velvet coral]

unless that Assassin has a lot of LD levels you'll usually bleed out unless you handle spacing

[small zinc]

I only have ld1

[ebon dagger]

is cloaked useless in this fight

[deep kayak]

yeah it needs tweaks

[deep kayak]

yes

[small zinc]

and regen 1 (pot)

and it's fine

if boss agro not change

[velvet coral]

Cloaked is useful until you enter certain phases

[small zinc]

(me assassin with 200+/150+/200+ ehp)

[robust ice]

i'm honestly of the opinion atp that the walls should just fully stop appearing while the hallucination is active or something

[hot yacht]

what about second is bad?

[robust ice]

or the mobs shouldn't have ridiculous annoying kb/fire arrows

[mental cloak]

funny elite

[wanton dock]

Not really lol I didn't say it's that bad itself
The jumping twisted needs a nerf, so does the speedy twisted in 3rd hallucination but other than that it's the fun type of difficult

[velvet coral]

probably the most respect demanding elites in the fight

[deep kayak]

yeah the jumping one

specifically

[wanton dock]

True dmg mslam elite as well as often overlaps with slice which is annoying

[hot yacht]

the jumping one got fixed though

[small zinc]

it got radius fix

[wanton dock]

It's still insane

[velvet coral]

the third ones are also very threatening but the lack of groundcleave during that part is significant

[hot yacht]

idk it feels easy to dodge now

[deep kayak]

its still insane yeah

[small zinc]

and it feels fine if you know what it do

[robust ice]

the damage is nuts but pretty manageable tbh

[deep kayak]

if ur melee u need to get hit

[small zinc]

??

[deep kayak]

and if ur ranged u have to focus on it too much

[wanton dock]

It's dodgeable but if you fail once you just die period

[small zinc]

either burst when it spawn

[deep kayak]

also yeah because wall

[small zinc]

or burst when it finished one skill

[deep kayak]

its too painful

[hot yacht]

in bis maybe ive never gotten 1 tapped by it, accounting for toughness it should be a 2 tap for most builds

[velvet coral]

the elites demand your attention (good imo), the second wave ones are the most immediately demanding (jump man will fucking kill you if you don't back up, divebomb will fuck you up in general and also rock your shit if you let it live into Screamroom

[meager token]

Now that I remember, there is something else that bothers me with the Jeffrey + Parasomnic combo.

Once or twice the screen would go completely dark for a moment, but that moment can cover up the warning particles of Jeffrey's slash.

[velvet coral]

tbf Warrior diff, Warrior hardcore powercreeps this boss

[deep kayak]

u cant hit it

[robust ice]

warrior either needs a nerf or some of the other classes need buffs

[hot yacht]

yeah i said accounting for toughness, its like a 3 tap on bers

[robust ice]

i should just make a crazy bers build atp

[hot yacht]

but i also dont get hit that often by it its like a 3 block aoe now

[velvet coral]

nah Warrior nerf ong Guardian with a Poise build can facetank this entire boss brainlessly, only stopping to respect Mist

and Bers is just inherently way too defensively capable

[robust ice]

how successful will me and jade be if we both pick bers

[small zinc]

do the 3rd abhorrent 3rd elite skill is hit based or damage/health based to active

[wanton dock]

Barely because iframes

[stark herald]

Is guardian even that egregious in r2

[wanton dock]

Go bers and scout

[velvet coral]

pick bers then pick something out of gameplay builds that mentions it being strong and you should win

[wanton dock]

Also a bers can't really clear so that's annoying

[small zinc]

go duo rogue it's fun!

[hot yacht]

no you'll be successful in standard pauldron rocket boots bers

[mental cloak]

i think that it should be indirectly nerfed by giving the berserker tormented 65pt delve scaling

[deep kayak]

^

[hot yacht]

but scout is also good

[velvet coral]

nah R3 gives it infinite absorption and like 6 situational levels

[deep kayak]

but for dps u need a scout or smth to clear

[wanton dock]

Playing with a good scout and literally anyone else is like 2 different games atp

[velvet coral]

evidently the outdated slop build doesn't need to kill the mobs

[deep kayak]

yeah its worse for me

[velvet coral]

just keep critting the boss or relevant elite

[wanton dock]

Cause your build is ass lol

[deep kayak]

bro it worked with other ppl i thought it would work

and honestly i also kinda messed up

[wanton dock]

It probably works if other people are tourists and don't clear 😭

[deep kayak]

but if u do have reflexes up u can tank stuff and not die lmao

[deep kayak]

yeah they dps the boss

and clear only when needed

[wanton dock]

For what, dps barely speeds up the fight

[velvet coral]

I do gotta call out the fact that I was watching cocopad with his brain literally turned off on Warrior living easily against the boss, bro kept autopilot critting the invincible boss during Hallucination

[wanton dock]

It's literally just clear

[stark herald]

Your build gave me brain damage

[velvet coral]

it was mscr's build

[hot yacht]

meta would be dps there aren't really any damage caps

[stark herald]

His build gave me brain damage

[velvet coral]

I would never put my name on an abomination like that

[stark herald]

[hot yacht]

and speed i guess to run to the slime teleports

bis agi wins again

[deep kayak]

meta is dps yeah

u dont rly die easier

[stark herald]

Icl though I feel like intruder should give a stacking debuff on melee hits, being able to tank like that is really gross

[deep kayak]

ehp doesnt matter what only does is sustain

and guess what fucking glass has insane sustain

[velvet coral]

I'd say work sustain into the build and you'll do better than plain dps

[deep kayak]

and can rampage every 2 hits

[velvet coral]

unless your teammate is buff hiero

[deep kayak]

honeslty i might try biero teammate

[wanton dock]

Hiero is mid here ngl

[hot yacht]

this is too anti melee but i think its spells should be buffed

[wanton dock]

In a team with only 2 slots wasting 1 for just a support tourist is meh

[deep kayak]

minimal clear is needed only aggro

[hot yacht]

you should at least have to pay attention to its special stuff

[wanton dock]

Maybe li paladin clear for cbless

[deep kayak]

its not like the teammate can 2x ur dps anyways

[stark herald]

Hmm that's fair the slash attack is telegraphed and easier to dodge

[deep kayak]

yeah true probably pala actually does better

[stark herald]

If you're going all in on the boss then you'll get hit by it

Good idea Orasnore

[velvet coral]

absolutely not that shit is commiting war crimes with like 5 minute clears

[deep kayak]

and just heal back

[stark herald]

Yeah which is why I want it to have a stacking debuff

[deep kayak]

rampage soothing regen and lifedrain if u have

[ebon dagger]

would echoesbe good or smth aaaaaaaaaaa

[deep kayak]

u csn ignore attacks

[deep kayak]

no dmg

[ebon dagger]

i mean

its more about not dying

[velvet coral]

Billions must ignore boss mechanics by running intrinsically overpowered setups

[hot yacht]

echos is pretty good but i doubt its true bis

[ebon dagger]

its tankier

[hot yacht]

but its lifedrain ats reflexes which is pretty much perfect for sustain

[deep kayak]

id rather use bryo

[stark herald]

Which is why I want stacking debuff i think

Like u can't ignore the Hog.'s roar

That'll give you super aids

[royal valley]

Have i missed the window for dropping a wall of text yet

[robust ice]

ok wow tantrum is completely fucking ridiculous jesus christ

i take back what I said its just occasional unavoidable death if you're melee

[ornate mica]

the run me and my teammate did it we prepped 40% speed pots for 2cd hallucination and it helps a lot
pre tantrum nerf as well

[small zinc]

I did 5 runs now , and 2 runs my teammate die leave me alone to final phase

And it’s hard mode and I’m melee

[robust ice]

https://www.twitch.tv/derailious also putting this here so people could watch me fail and get live angry feedback as i tilt terribly

but yeah enjoy i guess.......... ing ame now

[small zinc]

Ye I really need to make boss ability thing

[ornate mica]

how do y'all think if soul weaver is added to the boss instance

[stark herald]

Lock tf in Derailious

[small zinc]

So I can slap on information to not let my teammate throw

[royal valley]

screw it, wall of text time

This will probably just end up being buried, but here's my two cents anyways. The fight seems very well balanced to me. I prefer playing content solo, and for the most part, this boss works really well and is a fun puzzle to solve solo. Figuring out which elites need to be dealt with immediately vs which ones you can let stick around for a bit to do some clear or burst down the abhorrence is a really fun part of the boss and one that I wish was done better in other content. Mist is the token instant kill attack, and one of the better done ones imo. The tormented spawning was a fun twist to the fight, and the EX bosses really pushed it to being one of my favorite pieces of content. The one thing I don't like about the fight is the end. See, I play warlock, and I tend to focus more on the magic side of things. This makes my dps pretty lackluster, but I have high enough burst damage to consistently get out of screamroom pretty much instantly. Which just makes the end of the fight feel cheap to me. After 2 hours of attempts, I made it to the end only to die to the dps race. Then again. Then again. Then again. I personally hate dps races. To me, they just feel like a cheap way of saying "fuck you", especially after the end of an already 10-15 minute long slogfest where one or two mistakes means wiping. Dps races just feel like a cheap way to anti-solo content, but that doesn't even work except on classes that already don't do well solo, like lock, mage and alch. It just cheapens the experience and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth that after sinking 2 hours into trying to beat the boss blind my reward may as well be a text box saying "pick a better class next time".

tl;dr love the boss, but why tf does there have to be a dps race after an already 15-20 minute fight

[slow drum]

does the circle eventually fully close in DPS race? or does it only shrink to 5x5

[small zinc]

It’s like radius of 4 circle

Which is 9x9 but smaller

But boss ability make ground red

[slow drum]

and then Lingering Scar cooks you!

[royal valley]

I just get juggled out of it by the constant waves, the always spawning mobs, and the other attacks i have to dodge and i get hit once and get blown up

[fervent fox]

dps check seems pretty lenient

[wanton dock]

Man who the hell calls warlock "lock" 💀

[small zinc]

Funny enough that some build you can just stand on red floor

[ornate mica]

I am also not a fan of dps checks, slow players should have a chance by being patient
this dps check isn't that ridiculous but that is the biggest hurdle to solo vs duo

[small zinc]

With low potted

[deep kayak]

because u have dps

[fervent fox]

me when i solo

[ornate mica]

if you don't ever look inside gameplay stuff while being mainly magic class player
you will not have a dps set

[slow drum]

maybe he should stop casting Lingering Scar at the final 4 radius circle

[small zinc]

Magic classes have insta ability cast and get soul singer jump boost

[regal reef]

Was able to fight the new boss today and defeat both normal and hard (or whatever it’s called?) difficulty. Overall, the boss was fun, and the phases/abilities were pretty cool.

The only issues I have had with the fight so far have been related to visibility. The wither skeleton mobs in the black arena strained my eyes a little bit, but I don’t know if anyone else is having that issue. Also, my teammate and I in our first comp attempts were confused as to why we kept dying at the start of the circle phase. We didn’t know what to do until someone else told us to look for a circle on the ground and stay in it. Maybe there could be some vertical element to the ring to make it easier to spot in the arena at the start of that phase?

[fervent fox]

i heard it makes a white pillar with 100% particles

[deep fox]

it does in fact do that

[regal reef]

Huh, well we both have particles 100% and didn’t notice it for a few runs. Not sure why we kept missing it then

[deep kayak]

yeah the visibility

[deep fox]

however on low particles its extremely hard to see

[deep kayak]

my eyes hurt

[deep fox]

i barely saw anything and had to look like 3 times for the circle on the ground at 20% particles

[polar narwhal]

a har -> tormented frag trade is planned for next week

[deep kayak]

1har per????

thats so expensive wtf

a key shouldnt cost 5har...

[long pond]

Is it actually cheese

[long pond]

Please dont make tormenteds worth 1 har each

That’s going to end up in a scenario where everyone feels obligated to run tormented all the time whether they want to or not simply because its such a huge bump in profits

[deep kayak]

^

[mortal cypress]

p sure the main point is that if you want you can

but you shouldnt

[long pond]

People base values as a % ratio of the npc price generally

[sly halo]

That seems quite high yeah

At least IMO

[frank parcel]

Tbf fighting tormenteds isn’t easy

[long pond]

The market price will obviously drop from the npc price, but the npc price sets the initial conditions

[frank parcel]

And they are semi rare

[long pond]

Something like 32 ar would make a tormented key 3 har, godspore is 2.5 har for reference

[frank parcel]

I agree with that reasoning yeah

I think proportionally, maybe tormenteds could have a chance for higher drag drop rates

[long pond]

Isnt the frag drop rate 100%

[mortal cypress]

yes

[frank parcel]

I mean more than 1
Maybe like 100(1st) => 20(2nd) => 2(3rd)

Idk if that is crazy

[long pond]

It takes like 1-2 pois to spawn 4 tormenteds

[polar narwhal]

I meant r3 currency to tormented frags, @spark radish canv you confirm the price?

[icy raven]

tormented frags being purchasable means that the pots are even cheaper

[polar narwhal]

what

im pretty sure frags are for the key only

[tranquil oyster]

they're also used for the potions

[long pond]

Wait are the potions not using the boss reward currency

[tranquil oyster]

no, they do

[hot yacht]

they useboth

1 of each iirc

[long pond]

Oh ok

[tranquil oyster]

you buy a potion with 1 Tormented Fragment and 1 Fractured Psyche

I'm also personally not a huge fan of the "make everything purchaseable" approach to solvin' key cost problems

(it's something I really do not like about Godspore, a boss I am already increasingly mixed on)

[frank parcel]

Compare r3 instanced raw key bying to hellpacts, which have to be made by running grove

[hot yacht]

i think godspore 'intended' key method is terrible so the purchasable is great but tormenteds are more reasonable

[frank parcel]

It’s not the point that everyone has to do it rather that it creates a player market niche I think

[long pond]

I dont like being forced to run content I dont like to run other content personally

[tranquil oyster]

if you ask me, Godspore's key method sucks because Amanita Colony sucks to run

[hot yacht]

i think it should maybe be tuned to like ~1 poi = 1 key

[frank parcel]

And then you can give all 3 for more keys at a better rate or smth

[tranquil oyster]

that said, in the interest of keepin' my ramblin' slightly on-topic

the biggest difference between Godspore and Jeremy is that Jeremy doesn't necessarily make you run any specific piece of content

[hot yacht]

yeah exactly that

[tranquil oyster]

if a piece of content is able to be delved, with no regard to what it is, you are able to call tormenteds to that area at your leisure

i.e. you can easily hunt tormenteds on your terms instead of bein' locked to theirs

[slow drum]

tormenteds are insanely game distorting though and are expressly designed around having teammates

[hot yacht]

they have dr scaling with teammates solo isnt so bad

[tranquil oyster]

you sure?

because they don't feel expressly designed around havin' teammates

they feel like the tougher minibosses that I invested double the delve points specifically to fight

[frank parcel]

Certain tormenteds and twisteds are just crazy oppressive (scout)

[hot yacht]

but accounting for teammates maybe make it drop 1 per player or something

or 1 + 50% per player

[tranquil oyster]

that said, some tormenteds are super oppressive, some moreso than others dependin' on what class you play
-# I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I hate Bishops I ha
so I can see where that comes from

[frank parcel]

Wdym bishops are fine

They have like 2 attscks

[long pond]

Super kb minion feels bad

cough my crashout from being midair juggled up the entirety for forsaken manor onto its roof and then yeeted off it to my death cough

[frank parcel]

How

This has never been my bishop experience 😭🙏

[tranquil oyster]

what do you play

[frank parcel]

Pala/hiero

I also tend to have had room to drag the bishop

Which helps

[tranquil oyster]

well yeah

tbh most tormenteds get way easier if you can fight them in a more open space

[long pond]

I dont care about the actual bishop, its the shield wall minion with like kb 5

[tranquil oyster]

(in my experience, if I get like a Bishop or something in a super tight space I WILL get fucked up)

[tranquil oyster]

this

why does the seraphim do so much knockback >:(

[frank parcel]

ok back to the main point about the boss

[tranquil oyster]

ANYWAY

[frank parcel]

Frags are more accessible than godspore mats imo

[tranquil oyster]

yeah

[frank parcel]

And fighting tormenteds successfully is not a terrible boss skill check as they spawn a tormented

Sidereal scholar harder than all the non scout tormenteds fr

[tranquil oyster]

you can grind Tormented Fragments damn-near anywhere you like, doesn't even have to be in the Ring
Jeremy mandates a tormented mirror match for each participant, so it's good practice
and most tormenteds aren't too awful even solo once you get the hang of how they work (which you should be doin' anyway for the second reason)

[frank parcel]

So I get to fight the bishop in boss 😋

Poor poor shamans their tormenteds are not fun in small arenas lol

[tranquil oyster]

oh absolutely

Shaman tormenteds thrive in small spaces (and anyone unfortunate enough to encounter them in such a space very much does not)

[frank parcel]

They got a whole domain expansion

Anyway boss design
The mob spam of enemies that look identical is a bit eh
Go to kill an npc only to learn it’s litterally the boss and get messed up

[icy raven]

thats intentional

[stark herald]

Ts pmo

[frank parcel]

It’s intentional that full bright is just optimal….

[stark herald]

I feel like tormented frag should only be dropped and that key cost an extra 2 har if you are buying it w/o tormented frag

Collecting frag and buying potions with it is cool

[stark herald]

This pretty much

[mental cloak]

one other complaint?
sinking nightmares or whatever Legally Distinct Volcanic Demise is should ABSOLUTELY have a skull next to it given that it can one shot you

[slow drum]

it's 110 magic

not a oneshot

[mental cloak]

I
I died instantly in tcleric.

did it stack or smth lol

[pale creek]

If boss is beaten by standing still what else is it

[mental cloak]

oh if you stand still you die that's still not going to cut it

[pale creek]

You also literally can skip killing all boxes

[mental cloak]

you'll get chipped down over time

also if you get LB distortion you're screwed

[pale creek]

Yea i saw gameplay 97% of fight is standing

[mental cloak]

(it should not be able to levitate so high why is it so HI

[slow drum]

how much magic ehp (without ethereal)

[pale creek]

Without ethereal its not that much

Atleast tcleric has to avoid two attacks insane

[mental cloak]

126 so I must have been slightly off max

so, that checks

[long pond]

Huge fan of this suggestion

[frank parcel]

Wasn’t the thorns win by the skin of your teeth

[mental cloak]

no

like. not even close, lmao

[long pond]

This isnt even exclusive to tcleric though

[frank parcel]

Oh

• -1 00% S armor damage

[pale creek]

What else

[frank parcel]

next month

[stark herald]

Its my schitzo dream that Tormented Fragments can be potentially used as materials for whatever reason

[long pond]

You move around to dodge atks so you can reduce the dmg you take

[stark herald]

Like grinding tormented for mats and buying smth with them is so

[long pond]

If you can sustain more than the rate you take dmg, moving becomes optional

[frank parcel]

20 tormented fragments unlocks new twisted modes real

[mental cloak]

you can use it to build the nether reactor to summon the nether

[long pond]

“Spam heals” is cleric’s thing to begin with

[frank parcel]

Like
Twisted bar: makes twisted spawn predictable but heavily buffs the spawned guy or smth stupid

[long pond]

Bers can do it too, its just that it also guts your dmg

[pale creek]

Attacking doesnt become optional in most other outsustain builds tho

[mental cloak]

attacking is not optional as tcleric

you die

straight up

[tranquil oyster]

imagine not havin' upwards of 250 magic ehp and thus bein' able to shrug off Legally Distinct Volcanic Demise

this post was brought to you by Magic Prot 7 Gang™️

[mental cloak]

you need to use your abilities and hit things to proc boon

[stark herald]

Maybe in 5 years Monumenta deprecates the vanilla villager trade and allows buying stuff that cost multiple items at once

[pale creek]

Abils yea

[stark herald]

...

[long pond]

Thorns does not proc heals

[pale creek]

Hit things makes it faster

[long pond]

If you dont atk you will stop healing

[frank parcel]

Sinking nightmares but it’s just the purple attacks from the right of the fight but a lot of them 🔥🔥

[mental cloak]

man warrior is so overpowered I can use rampage constantly and self-sustain permanently without even moving all I need to do is press three buttons and hit things

[pale creek]

Not that i like that you can outsustain the boss to begin with

[frank parcel]

Warrior nerf when

It’s litterally the most used class in general for everything I swear

[mental cloak]

ah shoot I forgot to eat dinner again

[frank parcel]

Have you consdered eating some sushi

[mental cloak]

yes actually

[frank parcel]

(Not me) (please)

[mental cloak]

[pale creek]

Eat them

[frank parcel]

[long pond]

It’s not?

[frank parcel]

Mb that was an overstatement

[long pond]

Scout is right there

[frank parcel]

It’s just other classes have been nerfed while being generally less successful broadly

[long pond]

Like almost everything warps around it to a degree to the point ppl just skip over discussing it bcuz theyre tired of talking about it

[tranquil oyster]

literally why

[long pond]

warrior ends up being the fallback discussion topic

[pale creek]

Whats there to talk about scout lol

[tranquil oyster]

what did I do to deserve this treatment 💀

[pale creek]

Class has three abils and pew pew

And main lr option ig

[frank parcel]

Speaking about cleric
Had LIsingle stack been being used

[long pond]

Warrior has been getting nerfed too idk what you mean

It’s just not really discussed because theyre small ones that happen every 1-2 balance patches and are generally warranted so no one feels strongly about them

[small zinc]

Can we nerf reaper cuz my friend did it with

[pale creek]

If he stood still most of fight could

:3

[small zinc]

No they running around while the scout do most thing

[stark herald]

The hell is wrong with warrior

[tranquil oyster]

that's what I wanna know
what did I do

[stark herald]

Warrior is fine, guardian (r2) is fine, berserker is slop given flesh and guardian (r3) is really slop with the right charm/build

[long pond]

You can tank twisted interloper with a tanky enough build and apparently thats considered cheese

Ignoring the eternity it takes to kill it

[tranquil oyster]

crazy opinion but

[small zinc]

So we should nerf warlock cleric warrior and assassin ok

[pale creek]

With sustainable enough not just tanky

[small zinc]

[tranquil oyster]

I think that havin' a tankier build that isn't T'Cleric should be rewarded with the ability to live more

at the cost of dealin' less damage (a factoid I have already made my peace with. I use fuckin' Wrench with a tanky build, I'm doin' like 100 per crit at the most)

[pale creek]

To what extent

[long pond]

Wdym to what extend

[small zinc]

My crit is 45

[pale creek]

To extent of ignoring most of boss attacks?

[small zinc]

[mental cloak]

im actually curious what attacks do people consider worth avoiding

[pale creek]

Feel like there should be a mechanic ramping up the damage if you take consecutive hits

[tranquil oyster]

I have like 300 magic ehp and I still can't ignore the majority of the magic attacks employed by Jeremy and company or I will just die anyway

[long pond]

That’s not a bers specific issue

[pale creek]

It isnt

Never said it is

[long pond]

If you stack enough situationals on almost any class, you can kapple thru the boss

[stark herald]

Bers can do it, Guardian can do it

[pale creek]

Thats why my suggestion is that

[frank parcel]

Mb gng

[hot yacht]

i think spells specifically otherwise it would be too anti-melee

[tranquil oyster]

I should also note that my ehp in anything other than magic is still average at best

I still have to care about what I'm doin' and not takin' hits to magic gives me more health to work with for when I get stumped by a non-magic attack

[long pond]

There’s a bunch of atks designed to spam you with rapid hits

[tranquil oyster]

first elite becomes the new tantrumer gg

[pale creek]

Like vesp has anti heal mech so that you dont just tank it

Elites damage can stay constant

[tranquil oyster]

I thought Vesp had an anti-heal mech because charmed Dawn exists

[pale creek]

Thats kinda a part of tanking it

[frank parcel]

Btw can we talk about the new charms and items

[mental cloak]

oops! 100% heal! 100% heal! 100% heal! 100-

[long pond]

Grey terracotta now kills u if u stand on it for longer than 10 ticks

[pale creek]

Idk kills me in about 10 ticks anyway

Dont step on it

[tranquil oyster]

how squishy are you

[long pond]

10 ticks is half a second to clarify

[frank parcel]

I think the rain charm is interesting but kinda just a bit too short to be useful
If it’s meant to be a more active use skill to tank large blows make it more
long or powerful

[pale creek]

Usual scout bis

[long pond]

And yeah that sounds like a u problem idk?

[mental cloak]

you're playing in bis and going "oh you're so tanky that shouldn't be allowed" 😭

[long pond]

I’m not even on a particularly tanky build and i can survive a second or two

[small zinc]

Did you get it

[pale creek]

You are standing still most of fight, you have no idea what attacks are even considered a threat because you play the build that allows you to not give a fuck about most of boss mechs

[terse raven]

yes i was alch

[pale creek]

I am not complaining i am squishy

[small zinc]

gg

[pale creek]

I am complaining you can facetank that shit

[tranquil oyster]

well that just comes back to the perennial issue of T'Cleric

[long pond]

Gears of the king but inverted i guess

[tranquil oyster]

-# and why Sanctified Armor is probably filed under "war crime" over in TM's databanks

[hot yacht]

considering chase melee + swords + swipes you cant melee without taking consecutive hits very often. I think the telegraphed spells should do more and maybe the boss melee gets buffed a bit but consecutive trigger might as well be an automatic "+debuf if melee class"

[long pond]

Also situ/defense stack

[tranquil oyster]

the spells still do a decent amount of damage

[pale creek]

What if ramp up only melee and from like 3 hits in 10 seconds

[mental cloak]

i have a general idea of what's deadly; I just have the means to survive it and I'm wondering if other people think of those attacks the same

[tranquil oyster]

maybe they could be buffed a little bit but overall I think the boss' damage output is in a good spot

[long pond]

A number of atks hit you 3 times per second much less 3 hits in 10 seconds

[pale creek]

Only melee part was not read

[long pond]

I am in fact referring to melee

[hot yacht]

yeah the only dodgeable attacks are the telegraphs so i think it should only apply to telegraphed spells

[tranquil oyster]

"only melee" part was read and as someone who has extensively tinkered with soloin' the boss alongside some duo comps I think 3 hits in 10 seconds is a monstrous lowball

[pale creek]

Numbers can be fine tuned

[hot yacht]

like technically you can get hit less than 3 times in 10 seconds but if were calling that reasonable then every class is reasonable in its current form

[long pond]

Oh right you’re running scout

That explains so much

[pale creek]

Obviously im making shots in the dark rn about numbers, general idea is just a anti facetank mech

[mental cloak]

there are already things that can kill you if you straight up try to facetank it

[pale creek]

Yea scout is of course most op class in the game

[mental cloak]

debuffs, screamroom, some of the elites will just kill you anyways, gray floor,

[pale creek]

And of course i only play scout

[mental cloak]

it's easy but about as easy as a good solo class

[long pond]

Twisted has this too

[hot yacht]

gray floor is kind of very low damage i think

[long pond]

It has a looot of antiheal

[tranquil oyster]

yeah heal cuts are pretty common

[mental cloak]

class that does not get hit gives feedback on ehp

[long pond]

You’re just not aware of most of them because they only apply in close range

[pale creek]

But of course

[long pond]

It applies -75% healing

[tranquil oyster]

gray floor's big killer isn't its damage alone

it's the substantial stretch of time it cripples your healin' for after you step on it

[pale creek]

Never played another class on my life so that enlightened warrior main needs to tell me that tanking 15 hits in 10s is fair and balanced

[mental cloak]

grey floor is -75%

the, uh, black particle ring chargeup thing is -30% iirc

screamroom is a LOT of debuffs

[frank parcel]

But they can’t really without sacrificing the ability to play the game

[hot yacht]

right but theres no counter to that so i think just buff the melee and people have to backup

[mental cloak]

the blackroom with shulkers thing is also a lot of debuffs including healing, damage, and max hp

[pale creek]

8 minutes to beat the boss solo with tcleric

They give up ability to play to simply win

[hot yacht]

as for actual tanking maybe debuff on consecutive hits that changes damage type to true?

[tranquil oyster]

that's just more fuel for the "Sanctified Armor is a crime against balance" fire

and that's a wildfire that I think is far better struck up in its own thread

[pale creek]

Would work prob but on all abils or just some

[hot yacht]

but honestly just making it a requirement to phase halucinations would work for tank cheese

[mental cloak]

how long does solo scout take

[hot yacht]

i dont really like removing tank viability but 8 minutes of tanking is a little much

[summer tusk]

Corruption meter :

[tranquil oyster]

yeah I think the solution here as far as T'Cleric goes is just

make Jeremy take no damage while an Abhorrent Abomination is active

[hot yacht]

having to deal with cube probably makes this 16 minutes

[pale creek]

Idk didnt set a timer but like 10 min prob

[frank parcel]

Sushi eat dinner don’t forget

[tranquil oyster]

that's how Riftborn already works with rifts and Abhorrent Abominations are just really fat Riftborn rifts that spawn elites as you beat them up

[mental cloak]

yeah I will ty

[tranquil oyster]

so you just do that and bam now Thorns Cleric is GONE

we did it, boys. we saved game balance. gg

[pale creek]

Also you can combine tcleric with dps and consistently delete the boss in under 5 min

[frank parcel]

But the question is Tcleric fun

[mental cloak]

yeah it's fun to me

[hot yacht]

fun doesnt really matter people find different stuff fun