#Enhanced Twisteds Thread

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

main hinge
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I think the spawnrate nerf should be undone maybe

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Given the increased minimum

austere lintel
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For the Twisteds themselves I encountered after the changes (done solo with hunter):

  • Tempest: It was pretty fun and didn't feel too overwhelming
  • Gravecaller: Swirling orb of withering 7 and slowness that I have no idea where the hell is coming from
  • Prosecutor: Sonic speed with block break; it makes predicting its chain and preparing accordingly quite unfun. Also it's genuinely ass if it casts JChain while way above you. Afaik loom can't place a ceiling above you either, so have fun.
  • Omenspeaker: Scout opinion
  • Artificer: Idk how to feel about Twisted Panacea's persistence; it even "teleports" up walls. At the very least it isn't fast, in fact it's very slow.
  • Watcher: With less Volley spam it was more tolerable than before
  • Deadeye: I'd rather fight the 9 stacked Astrals. Could you not give it so many skills? Or at least please remove its bunny hops. Also fox murder; Satan is proud of you.
  • Bishop: Compared to before, it was a pushover now. Well, only because the shield wall angel was not present 24/7

These are all I remember encountering.

main hinge
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“Minimum” effectively acts as a buffer for preventing overlapping twisteds already

wise palm
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Bishop does effectively nothing until you get it low enough to transform into flying mode, at which point the summons are insane but the boss is low enough health to just finish it off and the crazy summons despawn. I think it should be able to spawn 1 type of summon beforehand, or just anything to make it threatening. Also see bug-22086

wise palm
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Prosecutor chain does feel a little insane, often times it catches me as I'm running away and I don't have enough time to place blocks before I'm right next to it and I end up just spinning around it (which likely shouldn't happen). Luckily it doesn't insta kill me so it's not that bad

latent rock
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you should be able to use the voodoo dummies to cut your chain hyc style

austere lintel
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Also, forcing a JChain with PStrike and such does not seem to reset the cooldown of "naturally" occurring JChains, which means:

  • They can't be really used to force a JChain in an ideal position, since another might just happen right after the Twisted broke through your barricades
  • You can get JChained again right after the first ends
open crest
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just done bewitched in same condition, still no twist spawn, we can tell that's the problem for short poi when not use any delve modfier that boost twist spawn rate like legion(if that's how it work)

granite bear
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Me when I spawned like 4 in my bewitched and 5 in Quarry

slim linden
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May I ask how Deadeye's fox killing mechanic work?
only summoned one fox and one parrot in fight and then the message show it "kill" the fox several times

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marble quiver
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i can fix that like

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soon ish

austere lintel
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"You shot the hunter's fox dead, and its corpse split into experience particles..." - the revenge.

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I wonder if the Twisted Deadeye sees a similar message to ours when we defeat its fox lul

snow pilot
austere lintel
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Poor fox couldn't die in peace

tawny stirrup
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this only ends in a reality where mscr forgets to disable ninetails mechanic when the twisted dies

main hinge
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how does galactic collider work exactly

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just had a dozen of them spawn simultaneously

tawny stirrup
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health checkpoints in theory but it likes to spam and double spawn and shit sooooo

main hinge
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just had a bishop minion midair juggle me across the top of forsaken manor, almost out of the poi

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started at the red x and then was midair juggled all the way the end of the drawn line before finally dying

image.png
cerulean stirrup
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you dont understand bishop needs this mechanic to be balanced

pine pasture
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me trying to figure out how

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does bro have 5 morbillion ehp and an unplugged keyboard?

main hinge
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i don't know what having a keyboard has to do with not being able to get back onto the ground

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and it doesn't do that much dmg

tame radish
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combo across half the poi is a little silly tho

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perhaps a warrior player

main hinge
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spiritcaller remains some of the most oppressive shit i've ever seen

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anything not a flat open empty plane and the baby zombies immediately become maximum bullshit as they turn the area around the twisted into a deathzone while being untargetable

main hinge
cloud grail
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spiritcaller is the most passive ass twisted

main hinge
cloud grail
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you literally just go up to the thing and hit it

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you could prob face tank it half the time and survive

main hinge
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go up to? how

cloud grail
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????

main hinge
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it's in a wall

cloud grail
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why tf is your twisted in a wall

main hinge
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there's multiple of them stacked up on top of each other

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the twisted is not

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the minions are

cloud grail
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you mean the dryads?

main hinge
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i will record a clip for you the next time one spawns

cloud grail
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how tf are you fighting the twisteds

main hinge
cloud grail
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you arent supposed to go after the baby zombies?

main hinge
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that wipes our entire group from overlapping hitboxes if we ignore them

cloud grail
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ive literally never had this problem in my life bro 😭

main hinge
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idk how you're surviving getting targetted by multiple of them simultaneously

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whenever a spiritcaller spawns, my group has been either immediately going full-rush mode to clear the poi and gtfo before it catches back up or despawning it

daring thicket
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Spiritcaller lowkey is too much sadmouse

image.png
main hinge
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smh underplaying it

daring thicket
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True I should've gotten a picture of the actual PoV where we're all buried under trees behind eviscerated by ominous means

main hinge
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[21:32:43] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Eddison_ was slain by Spiritbound Dryad using [Plagueroot Clasp]
[21:32:47] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Nyaalma was killed by Spiritcaller Tree using Spiritual Connection
[21:32:47] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Heleith was killed by Spiritcaller Tree using Spiritual Connection
[21:32:47] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] LucentGlow was slain by Blank Spirit
[21:32:51] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] cocopad suffocated in a wall while fighting Spiritbound Dryad
[21:33:09] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Gonzelk suffocated in a wall while fighting Spiritcaller Tree
[21:33:24] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Heleith was slain by Blank Spirit
[21:33:30] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Eddison_ was killed by Spiritcaller Tree using Spiritual Connection
[21:33:31] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Lynx1240 was slain by Blank Spirit
[21:33:38] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Nyaalma was killed by Spiritcaller Tree using Spiritual Connection
[21:33:40] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Sukie was killed by Spiritbound Dryad using Sanctuary Seed
[21:33:41] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] LucentGlow was killed by Spiritcaller Tree using Spiritual Connection
[21:33:42] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] dayisgod was slain by Twisted Spiritcaller using [Shaman's Broken Crusher]
[21:33:55] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] Eddison_ was killed by Spiritcaller Tree using Spiritual Connection```
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[21:34:12] [Render thread/INFO]: [System] [CHAT] dayisgod suffocated in a wall while fighting Spiritcaller Tree```
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our 2nd to last attempt fighting a spiritcaller suffer

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Anyway, what was happening was the dryads would bury the poi in trees, and then everyone would get stunlocked by the baby zombies

cloud grail
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im so confused bro how many spiritcallers are you fighting

main hinge
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And then Spiritual Connection would wipe the entire party while none of us could move

main hinge
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That was a singular spiritcaller

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None of us could clear the baby zombies so we’d get kb locked in place until the dryads casted Spiritual Connection

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And then it’d wipe everyone

worldly meteor
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might be one of those "the first person who encountered it fucked up so bad that it got past a certain point of no return"

daring thicket
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There were two dryads

cloud grail
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like for the dryads you just move around

daring thicket
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That might've been why, but even so i dont think we shouldve gotten turbo buried

cloud grail
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idk how it gets that bad

main hinge
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Idk how many times i need to repeat this

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Im not sure why its confusing you

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I have been specifically talking about the baby zombies this entire time being the issue

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Stop fucking bringing up other things

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the dryads are easy to dodge.. when you can move

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None of us are able to move, we get stunlocked by the zombies

cloud grail
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😭

pine pasture
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ragebait successful?

main hinge
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They ignore terrain and a lot of pois end up in a state where none of us can hit them because theyre hiding in walls or trees

cloud grail
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what trees?

main hinge
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Anyway

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Collider seems kinda buggy

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It spawns every 600 hp right? How much do r3 twisteds have

pine pasture
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Ele can spawn 2 consistently and a third if you don't kill him before it goes off

main hinge
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A party member made the mistake of nuking the twisted which was definitely our fault

pine pasture
main hinge
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But uh we had a dozen or so spawn simultaneously which seems a bit overkill

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Like 4 of them spawned immediately on the first gate

daring thicket
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Celestial Rampart Incident

main hinge
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Another 3 spawned again

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And then i dont actually know how many the last spawned because everyone got triple shattered from them going off sequentially

pine pasture
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68pt is easy mfs when I actually just drop a truck full of nukes on the POI

main hinge
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I also dont understand iron maiden on vanguard

pine pasture
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cage fight

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leaving is bad for your health

main hinge
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It keeps spawning whatever it is that kills u on top of me

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ive never actually seen the atk go off, i just die and then come back to find the arena there

daring thicket
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Hmmm

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The telegraph for iron maiden is pretty good but it was in a poi marathon so id imagine its hard to read

main hinge
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Does the “minimum” for twisteds reset at the start of a poi

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And does it reset to 0 spawn counter or reset to whatever value is needed for twisted checks to start occuring

raven fern
main hinge
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Its getting reworked to be %hp cast apparently

austere lintel
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Just had my best Vibrant Hollow ever

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With 4 Twisted spawning

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Shadestepper, Spiritcaller, Bishop and Tempest

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Shadestepper was a little annoying, but turning on mob glow significantly toned its difficulty down

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Spiritcaller was a bigger pushover than Vanguard

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Bishop and Tempest I already gave feedback on before and got nothing more to say about them

wise palm
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Meanwhile I had 1 bishop in the entirety of Shadowcast 😭

austere lintel
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Is Nuclear Amalgam an invisible glowing cube or?

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Or else I might be legit blind, but just now as I fought the twisted I could not see it at all.

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(But the explosion animation is very well made.)

austere lintel
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Damn, I want to point a laser pointer into all the invisible glow lovers' eyes

snow pilot
main hinge
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Since Indigo is the space wool, indigo dgn should consist of only glowing invis mobs to match

lime acorn
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indigo dungeon now takes place on a no structure super flat world with one wool 300,000 blocks out in a random direction

raven fern
snow pilot
raven fern
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TRUE

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that means indigo dungeon is scout locked

austere lintel
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Except every time you Eagle Eye, so many entities get glow that your device becomes a stove (in the best case)

raven fern
lofty salmon
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did they change the scaling for r1 and r2

buoyant sonnet
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is the general sentiment that R1 Tormenteds are bad? because i’m not really feeling it too much

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it might be a matter of me having a nice flat open safe area to kite them back into and slowly murder

marble quiver
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If they're too strong in R1 because of the design made to work in R2 and R3 that's just how it is, but I'm also not gonna remove them as an option in R1 because there's not a reason necessarily

buoyant sonnet
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oh no i’m not talking about “is it balanced around R1”

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i’m just asking the community “is it hard in R1”

marble quiver
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Oh for sure

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In R2 if you handle certain ones slightly wrong they just fucking kill you

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in R1 they probably also fucking kill you

buoyant sonnet
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ehhhhh

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i can kill maybe half without dying

marble quiver
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Granted I have not played with this modifier in R1 at all because I think I am too R3/R2 pilled to go back atp

drowsy hatch
buoyant sonnet
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oh yah soothsayer doesn’t pop its health threshold in r1 so

buoyant sonnet
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maybe that’s it

drowsy hatch
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who could have thunk

buoyant sonnet
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

ember quartz
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Can we reduce the detection ranges of the tormented

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I had a shadestepper from convent tp to me in colony

buoyant sonnet
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peak jumpscare

ember quartz
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That stuff happened in slow motion for me

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I was against a wall and I saw an invis wither skeleton tp to me

buoyant sonnet
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were you scout

ember quartz
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I do have the clip if proof is needed, but yeah that summarised my suggestion/complain,
Just reduce the detection range or smth

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Alch

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I was by the chest in the main house, where u have quest ingredients and whatnot

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Second floor

marble quiver
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The TP range is 200 blocks

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which is much larger than anything else really

cerulean stirrup
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what is the onrmal rogue twisted tp range

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that one seems fine

marble quiver
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I think it's like 20 blocks

cerulean stirrup
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yeah idk if 15x the radius was needed

austere lintel
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What happens if you let the prismatic cubes go off after you killed Twisted Moonweaver?

cerulean stirrup
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Nothing

austere lintel
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eh

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The game had me kill that prismatic cube 3 times and nothing would have happened if I didn't... notyay

fickle temple
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it should totally resurrect moonweaver with a bit of hp

gleaming bronze
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I like the new spawn rates, expect for cz but they arent supposed to be there

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I kinda wish that twisteds had some sort of indicator which attacks do true damage, since you cannot really figure that out until they kill you (and if that happens, you might not realize that the damage is true damage and might just think its a lot of damage).

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I get why true damage can sometimes be necessary, but it can feel cheap to have your defense completely bypassed and also have it be done in a way thats not clear. Like falling off the vesp arena or into the BM water, makes some sense why its true damage since your clearly not supposed to fall down. but i dont know why the soothsayers tree attack specifically is true damage; you would think it would be suffocation damage or magic damage but no its true damage designed to be an instant kill.

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I also dont really like attacks that put blocks on the player, since it blinds your screen

grizzled bronze
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I think the true damage is a good idea to counter tank cheese but it should maybe be split especially with the soothsayer and cleric nuke. I dont know if I was just doing sooth wrong but it was absurdly oppressive you must back up or just die in the large aoe, which seems to always keep expanding so you can’t really bait it out you have to hit and run. The cleric nuke is at least a dodgeable telegraph. I would like to see them back in cz sooner rather than later, especially if no one has started working on an expansion yet. It’s clearly possible to add so I would rather not wait a year just so that it can be released bundled with some other ascension.

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Also tempest was just annoying to fight as a melee. Wasn’t particularly hard but it took the longest because it wouldn’t stop jumping out of melee

gleaming bronze
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I think the cz rooms are just too small for the twisted 2 to play well. It very common for them to throw out an attack to push you backwards, but you have no space and die. I dont hate the idea of putting them in cz but I think heavy adjustments to room design would be necessary (which is probably a good idea anyways as many of these rooms are also questionable without even talking about twisteds.

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the other problem is that the game can send 2 twisteds in the *very first room * you open, before you found any abitlies

grizzled bronze
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Everything else felt fine with varying difficulty. Soothsayer and tempest were the only ones I didn’t like

gleaming bronze
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Ya soothsayer in particular is just so nasty with these small rooms. I dont like grave caller ether, the minions it summons dont go away and follow you throughout the entire floor. Those 2 are the most dangerous twisteds for sure

gleaming bronze
gleaming bronze
grizzled bronze
# gleaming bronze I think the cz rooms are just too small for the twisted 2 to play well. It very ...

I didn’t feel this issue playing it floor 1. Obviously harder and longer with no abilities but there was always space to kite from the runs I did. I think the difficulty is still manageable and balanced due to the lack of commitment it takes to get to any floor 1 room even if you wipe(which I’m not saying is a guarentee). In any case I dont think it should be limited to floor 2 because it detracts even more from the point of floor 1. At some point you either have to say that it’s the intended progression or radically change it, not handicap it into being balanced.

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I dont want to be too centered about cz but there’s already the delve point reduction, and tormented 5 (worst rng) is playable if tedious. I dont think it needs to be treated specially beyond the ascension requirement (a19 presumably)

gleaming bronze
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I dont know, attacks like twisted elementalists can hit through half of the room including through the walls. Twisted harbringer can just, delete a room like what happened here. these rooms just really werent made with such large attacks in mind. Even if its fine most of the time, if outliers can ruin the run for you then its still a big enough problem.

Screenshot_from_2025-05-08_01-16-44.png
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I am standing in a place that is normally a solid wall, this is just an unavoidable attack it covers the whole room. If you have a mobility skill you can escape by just leaving the room entirely but otherwise you die (unless you can kill the twisted first of course)

grizzled bronze
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I just don’t see how that’s a problem it’s like 15 seconds of using your firmament to make a staircase. And its counterable if you kill the slime

gleaming bronze
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It could be a problem on floor 1 when you just dont have enough dps to kill the nuke before it detonates

grizzled bronze
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I forgot what elementalist does

grizzled bronze
gleaming bronze
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Thats fair, the problems of too small rooms and having no abilities on floor 1 exist without T2 in zenith. I'm just saying that they make these problems even worse.

grizzled bronze
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It could be good to tone down the block explosion, it is obnoxious, but not a cz issue imo

gleaming bronze
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ya it would be similarly bad if it was used in like, the reverie castle

gleaming bronze
# grizzled bronze I forgot what elementalist does

elementalists aoe move is about teh same range as harbringers move, only instead of destroying block it penetrates through solid blocks and can hit players behind them for the full damage. I'm not acutally sure if its true damage or if its just really high damage (it took out my 200 magic ehp build from 40 blocks away). Another attack i'd like to know if its true damage or not but I cannot easily find out. I believe it can be shielded too.

gleaming bronze
pine pasture
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unfortunately I don't think Twisted 2 can exist in Zenith without it being unhealthy

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every boss both is designed with large spaces in mind and have flat health threshold abilities

gleaming bronze
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I think it might be able to exist with some heavy modifications but I agree that it would be a bad fit to just toss in as is right now.

pine pasture
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a Tempest is basically unapproachable because doing any meaningful damage to it will phase it

gleaming bronze
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Even though it was a bug i'm kinda glad we got to see the twisteds in cz though

pine pasture
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they also were not balanced with Zenith's uncapped scaling in mind

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some of the Twisteds will blindly one tap people with tanky builds

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Some of them also have abilities not designed with limited deaths in mind like Iron Maiden

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especially for Iron Maiden, where your grave is now entombed in an instakill aoe field

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or if your teammates are separated due to it moving before casting, it's an extreme version of Broodmother deadzoning graves

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gottem ggs death

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It would be much more reasonable to simply design new Twisteds for the content rather than adapt the existing ones

gleaming bronze
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oh ya you just cannot revive people inside some of the twisted 2 attacks

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I died with full grave timer instead of a soothsayer tree and all 3 of my teammates couldnt save me still

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and like I dont think I can even blame them for failing, how are you supposed to mine through this thick wood tree, then stand still for 2 seconds while under threat of being put inside a tree yourself

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I think that even normally the places twisteds can put your overworld graves is obnoxious.

grizzled bronze
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This is like saying 3 curses is unhealthy cause zenith wasn’t originally designed around three substantial debuffs. I mean almost no one plays it for a reason. Its just more difficult. Cz tormenteds we’re out for like 12 hours. During which time multiple teams completed it. I think a18 even took longer. I was doing fine even soloing, I ended up dying to a vorpal (nothing to do with the tormenteds, is itself a one shotter) on room 25. Most of them are hard counterable. Really the only exception is soothsayer. Tempest is annoying on melee but presumably you usually have ranged classes in a team.

This is too reactionary. The mod is playable and fine as shown by today. A19 or whatever shouldn’t be some barely significant increment. Tormenteds make perfect sense as a high ascension modifier. It makes no sense to me talking about how the rooms weren’t designed for it as if a tormenteds spawning in nadir void room and white snake room was deliberately balanced around. It is playable and that’s all that matters. There’s nothing all that special about zenith except you eventually get to blitz them with overpowered abilities by floor 3.

Saying designing a whole new zenith specific set of twisteds is easier than balancing the already 90% playable tormenteds is absurd. And the 10% isn’t particularly zenith specific. Soothsayer is too much everywhere. You have to collect graves in overworld too

gleaming bronze
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I think people over hate on curses. I'd like a19 to be more fine tuned then just playable though

grizzled bronze
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Yes I think true damage is a little abused and some tormenteds need tweaking. Not just in zenith. And certainly not so much that it shouldn’t be an obvious new modifier

TL;DRs

  • Soothsayer is too oppresive with its travelling true damage aoe. If nothing else, at least make it ramping stack-based damage so the hit and run counterplay isn't so much running.
  • Tempest is too tedious for melees, it should have more stopped/in-range phases.
  • True damage is abused in general, ideally make damages more hybridized. Only clear, generous telegraphs (if at all) deserve to be true damage one shots.
  • Abomination nuke doesn't need to break so many blocks. The damage and telegraph is fine, the block break is obnoxious.
  • Tormenteds in zeniths are a good and easy to add modifier. I don't think they need special tweaking beyond the above, which applies beyond zenith. Theres no reason they shouldn't come out immediately if an expansion isnt already in the works (as in, <2 months max to release). Even if not as a19, it would certainly be more popular than the current a18 modifier.
gleaming bronze
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true damage is a slippery slope to balance because you can add it to prevent cheese (like cheese in BM by hiding under or above the boss arena is solved by true damage, good choice there) but its so easy to over do it and hit defensive classes in the crossfire

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Like enough about twisted soothsayer, what is regular soothsayer supposed to do ageist these mobs? All of its skill are irrelvent, they are immune to debuffs and kill you regardless of your healing, Just switch to hexbreaker, its pointless to use sooth since they counter your class.

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It's not so bad for a defensive class to have a hard match up ageist some enemies, its more so the feeling of being completely hard countered and your class having no advantage anymore. Which only really happens when your strategy gets invalidated.

austere lintel
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Could we remove block break from Twisted Prosecutor?

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Like, if the whole idea is to "separate" yourself from the twisted, but if you also want to damage it then you're left with building barricades.

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And said twisted must be on hard drugs because how fast it can move.

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So it just becomes irregular JChains and a living bulldozer.

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And said "just build blocks bro" going down the damned drain.

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Or just give some wind-up telegraph to its JChain.

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And maybe less drugs.

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Speed is not good for its health.

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Don't do drugs.

marble quiver
austere lintel
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oh

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Good to know there was one already yey

lime acorn
pine pasture
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the sound and visual

lime acorn
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I have never heard it so it just chains you out of the blue

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In my experience

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if there is that's good but i don't think it's enough

pine pasture
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it's like a high pitched wither skull firing several times over

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if you're far away it might not pick up

kind light
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for me they feel weirdly balanced

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some are relatively weak while others are god and have 3 different ults that 1tap you while having mobility attack on 0 cd

open crest
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current doing it with friend in 25pt orange and blue, both don't feel fair and fun to play

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due to terrain and bug mob that everlast

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and maybe we can make invicble mob glow, so I can know which is something i need hit

wise palm
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The new abomination amalgam is kinda oppressive, it's likely fine in multiplayer but for solo it's just a 70% uptime insane homing orb of damage and debuffs. You can't really dodge it just gotta kite it around until you can get in close to the boss to damage it without being hit with the weakness penalty

buoyant sonnet
wise palm
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Yep woops, old name

buoyant sonnet
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yeah i agree

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doesn't even really let me draw my crossbow consistently i was illu'ing the twisted down

wise palm
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It becomes a way bigger threat than the apex of alchemy which has it's own boss bar lol. That guy does nothing, just walks around

buoyant sonnet
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what does the ground stuff that apex spreads do

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is it actually debuff / damage when standing or is it just visual + easy for the apex to blow up

wise palm
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Actually no idea, might just be visual or bugged like the starbound slimes

muted ridge
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fighting Spiritcaller is one of the most genuinely displeasurable experiences ive ever had in monumenta

marble quiver
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it was sort of thrown together with twigs and yarn so i can see that

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but i am thinking of just removing the blank spirits

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and making something more coherent

muted ridge
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it traps your graves if you die

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it deals so much knockback its not even worth trying to melee

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it heals itself

main hinge
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Does the amount of blank spirits scale with playercount or something

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also the stupidass huge zoning on spiritcaller’s summons means most of the fight u kinda just stand outside the immediate area waiting for it to stop

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Between spiritual connection and that, my groups still continue to opt to ignore spiritcaller and rush the rest of the dgn/poi

muted ridge
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Shadestepper is a solid type 3 fun mob

wise palm
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Yeah spiritcaller is another insane homing attack spam that you just kinda gotta run away from or else trigger the consequences which are even worse

open crest
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feedback from lime 30pt with 7 player

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  1. underwater is not fun to fight with, they move so fast, suggest reduce depth strider lvl
  2. many of them just not suit tight/indoor space, plus they break block may fighting them miserable
  3. I do know them better, rn i can't say i don't really like it, depend on what can we do with new drop in future, my opinion will change
marble quiver
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I think something I can work on doing in the future is:

  • Spiritcaller Trees spawn from non-homing projectiles or weaker homing and spawn on walls instead of players
  • Kill blank spirits in favor of something else
  • Change the true damage from Spiritcaller Tree's pulses
main hinge
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I’d like it if large scale persistent zoning didnt happen in general outside of controlled circumstances

#

It kinda feels really bad to be anywhere with hostile terrain and then have the safe terrain all rendered unsafe for long periods of time imo, like where do I even stand at that point

#

For aoe atks, u normally have the option of like pillaring up with firm or slapping a bridge with loom to avoid an aoe and then run back to more open ground once the atk is over but that’s not even an option when the atk persists

marble quiver
#

That attack in particular is actually firmable

#

it's on a fixed y axis

#

the tree pulse at least

main hinge
#

I meant more like afterwards

marble quiver
#

I think I considered having the trees self destruct

#

like not delete but literally blow up

main hinge
#

The previous stuff was more of a “in general” basis not specific to spiritcaller

#

For spiritcaller in specific, i can avoid the atks but like.. if its a corridor I cant really get back to the boss because the whole hallway has a persist aoe atk occurring somewhat often?

#

So i kinda have to stand there awkwardly waiting for it to chase me out of the zone of pain

#

Idk if the blank spirits scale with playercount or if it was a result of too many dryads spawning from the playerscale DR bug or what

raven fern
main hinge
#

But last week we tried to fight a spiritcaller in arx and like a quarter of the poi was trees by the end

marble quiver
#

i can fix that

main hinge
#

Later on we tried to fight another spiritcaller in submerged and uh nobody could actually reach the boss bcuz the hallway on both ends kept filling up with trees and blank spirits faster than the boss could chase us

lime acorn
main hinge
#

We literally dragged it across the entirety of the underground section of citadel and couldnt find an opportunity to kill it

#

And eventually were forced to clear the poi and leave before it trapped us in the endroom suffer

granite bear
#

@marble quiver This nuke radius is intentional right ?

image.png
marble quiver
#

yes

granite bear
#

I see

open crest
#

after all i just find new twist is not fun for solo melee player

#

the reaper one's jchain move my sight so quick that i have no idea what's going on, nor how to defend myself then die horriblely

honest lark
#

can all of these twisteds get depth strider

#

i jsut had paladin stuck in water unable to get out

#

and whenever i got close he would just li

wise palm
#

I thought they were meant to have depth strider

#

#change-logs message

open crest
#

maybe certain one didn't but i feel like that have

#

experience from lime

marble quiver
#

they do, maybe some of them don't?

#

somehow,

raven fern
open crest
#

ty for tell me something i don't really need to know

#

4man ex reverie, this time feel a lot better, i guess is

  1. i have more experience
  2. i decide play proj class rather then melee class
  3. my teammate finally stick together
marble quiver
#

At the same time they're not really meant to be fought all solo

#

Other people are to cover for your downtime

#

and to help you deal with mechanics

#

And yeah if your team splits you just explode

open crest
#

stilll meet some problem

  1. when guardian cast iron madien, when it switch aggro it can stuck on top of iron madien, lead me trap in iron madien doing nothing, again
  2. soothsayer... but ppl have mention it above
  3. haven't meet much problem with other this run, just want to mention twist ninetail is very hard to hit with its high speed and small hitbox
muted ridge
#

hot take i dont think every boss needs an instakill

open crest
#

this time i also finally notice iron maiden has something like now stand here and fight, so make more sense to me,

still need figure out phase 2 of tene, and man the everlasting curse armorstand...

marble quiver
#

though they don't necessarily have to be one shots and they could probably be high % damage

muted ridge
#

big fan of nuclear amalgam

#

i like letting it blow up just to see it wreck PoIs lol

marble quiver
#

I think the only one shot i care about is Galactic Collider

muted ridge
#

shaman spams its earthen tremor a rediculous amount

buoyant sonnet
raven fern
lime acorn
#

can't wait for the twisted boss to have sixteen instakill attacks that it uses every five seconds

buoyant sonnet
#

does Apex of Alchemy wipe debuffs, Crusade marks, etc. when it explodes

worldly meteor
#

What if the attacks gave you an effect called "tormented" or "unreincarnated" and if the attack hits you while you have that debuff you die instantly

muted ridge
lime acorn
#

yeah it should teleport you into the middle instead of instantly killing you

and then kill you two seconds later

buoyant sonnet
#

the twisted should be the one doing the killing

austere lintel
#

Can Twisted Panacea be killed?

#

I might be tripping, but I felt like it disappeared much sooner once, and that was when it was within Split Arrow and Quickdraw range.

marble quiver
#

It might be

#

I didn't check if it was immortal or not

proven spire
#

Ran Astral Unyielding Dreadful Tormented, 4 player Purple today. Honestly we forgot bout everything apart from Tormented (and 3 special astrals). Some notes I want to share are:

  • Revenant is harmless underwater. Soloed it.
  • Primordialist's Galactic Collider timing seems way too short. 1st one exploded all the time but 2nd did not because the tormented would die before it collided.
  • Not sure how Tenebrist one works but it always ended up with abomination spawning and it did not drop the fragment.
  • Others are relatively fine.
raven fern
#

theres like 3-5 mobs or smth

proven spire
#

how do they look like?

raven fern
#

they dont attack its a dps check

#

theyre like purple? skeletons

proven spire
#

idk i was sooth so i just threw all my totems at the dude

raven fern
#

also killing the twisted while ritua is active does nothing

#

it wont stop the ritual

proven spire
#

crazy

#

it stops galactic collider atleast

#

is the abomination like an astral?

raven fern
#

thankfully if i fuck up the ritual i can still like stand next to it and not die

#

ot does blue flme particle telegraphs

proven spire
raven fern
#

and then covers the floor in black concrete

proven spire
#

bc standing above or below did no dmg

raven fern
#

also it occasionally summons black holes

#

for some reason

raven fern
proven spire
#

where was the msg with all tormenteds

#

also tormented tepache exists

#

its just twisted with 4x duration

raven fern
#

i know

proven spire
#

40min instead of 10

raven fern
#

i have 2 from one poi

raven fern
proven spire
#

where is it

raven fern
#

near the top

proven spire
#

its better than nothing

tame radish
#

collider can be shielded and miss when you’re under it for some reason

raven fern
#

#1365010860170416339 message

raven fern
#

you can also tank them if you have absorp and at max hp

tame radish
#

mscr gotta change it to 12000% true damage now

raven fern
topaz root
#

so are gravesoul haunters supposed to despawn when the twisted dies?

pine pasture
#

yes

topaz root
#

errr from my experience they have never despawned since the change

#

do they not despawn if you stop the ritual or something?

austere lintel
#

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't

topaz root
#

huh

#

they seem to always linger for me

main hinge
#

Unfortunately the dev is currently busy

#

Maybe this week or next week’s patch

topaz root
#

sad

keen valve
#

Is it possible to prevent the Primordialist from respawning the Elemental Spirits while Galactic Collider is up? I've had the Tormented spawn the Ice Spirit inside/in front of the collider multiple times and blanking hits and projectiles during the short dps race.

muted ridge
#

^

strange vector
#

so thats why my entire swordsage burst went nowhere

quiet wharf
#

Has the damage of the R2 Tormenteds been looked at

#

It feels incredibly inconsistent

#

Primordialist felt like it dealt no damage and the ice spirit was dealing half a heart but the watchman just shot volley at dealt 7 hearts of damage to me sadmouse

marble quiver
#

watchman volley is

#

weird

#

i still dont fully comprehend its cosmic nature

buoyant sonnet
#

it’s supposed to be what 20 damage?

#

i mentioned this before but does Watchman have a Split Arrow esque abil

#

or something which would allow its fleet of Volley arrows to bypass the Volley iframes

quiet wharf
#

I am not sure if this is known I imagine it probably is but I think Prosecutor's damage in R2 is either literally nothing or just extremely low

#

The JChain detection for line of sight is kinda weird too it's really specific

#

I think the Prosecutor shouldn't be able to use JChain and Dark Pact at the same time, it feels kinda unfair if you're in a small room and he does Dark Pact and JChain

#

In a bigger room you'd be able to run away knowing Dark Pact is happening and break line of sight that way, but in a small room it's kind of impossible

#

Maybe make it so he can't cast JChain while Dark Pact is active and he can't cast Dark Pact while JChain is active, but if you get JChained it could activate Dark Pact shortly after

quiet wharf
snow pilot
#

Then I get hit by the ability lowering my max HP to nothingness

quiet wharf
#

Yeah it is kind of weird

#

Sometimes you can get pulled if you're slightly visible over a wall

#

but it ends up doing nothing because the wall just blocks you anyways

#

but it's really annoying when I can't do anything about JChain because I'm in a small room and he activates Dark Pact and runs at me and casts it

snow pilot
strange vector
#

@marble quiver hey mscr i am sorry to bother you but what is your opinion on super twisteds like

#

actively trying to break as much terrain as possible to reach you

#

i had like the entire upper part of arx excavated while fighting one

quiet wharf
#

Their block break is a bit infuriating sometimes

#

The block break of the warrior twisteds is just absurdly large

#

Deadeye will constantly break cover that you placed down

marble quiver
#

i can reduce it

lime acorn
#

make every tormented ability break blocks in its radius

#

Planetary impact deletes everything in a 100 block radius sphere

quiet wharf
strange vector
# marble quiver i can reduce it

i am not saying that you should but sometimes its kinda funny that instead of walking up the stairse the tormented burrows through the entire arx to reach me

#

not necessarily a bad thing though

open crest
#

question, does enhance twist drop 1/1000 twist flower

raven fern
#

someone dropped one like a day after release

open crest
#

ty

lime acorn
#

there is a 1/1000 chance for that flower to be special which you can use to craft a new sword

raven fern
#

every mob has a 1/1000 chance to drop a flower specific to that mob

open crest
#

Is it intend that Galactic Collider can spawn before first one died, we were't running around doing no damage

main hinge
#

Theyre on hp thresholds

#

There isnt a timer or cd for them and only a limited amount can spawn

open crest
#

i see

austere lintel
#

Finally got another Artificer and this time I deliberately shot at the Panacea

#

It "died" in a single Quickdraw

pine pasture
#

How gameplay discussion mfs described the Razed Remnants nerf a year ago

hazy axle
#

am I delusional or is the reaper twisted the hardest one

proven spire
#

depends

muted ridge
#

the jchain spam is unreal

#

it's not actually threatening if there's no mobs nearby but man its infuriating

hazy axle
#

Its the only torment that actually clapped my cheeks

muted ridge
#

i am not a big fan of assassin

#

or spiritcaller (when playing melee)

hazy axle
#

Assassin is just annoying

#

Reaper inflicting -100% healing and eating your health is not cool

#

How to counter bers 101

main hinge
muted ridge
#

spiritcaller is miserable as a melee class and at high playercounts

main hinge
#

Swordsage can also suck if your team keeps failing to dodge forcing you to keep dealing with windwalk spam

main hinge
#

i thought the moonweaver rift was changed to a throwable

image.png
austere lintel
granite bear
#

can we make tormented 10 a thing ( 5x more common ) FB_IMG_1710531142651_1

latent rock
raven fern
#

amped constellation tower (literally the whole of star point)

drowsy hatch
latent rock
#

it is a very funny combination in Jeremy

#

i was banned from playing Paladin there

proven spire
#

hear me out: reaper gets crusaders luminous infusion kind of ability

#

the spec not tormented

wise palm
#

Small note, Watchman's whirling blide attack makes the same/similar sound to Escape Death proccing so I keep thinking I'm in trouble when I'm not

granite bear
#

Hear me out : twisted shadestepper gain a +50% damage boost for 2 second every 10 second and healed 25% hp when it kill a player 🗣️ 🔥

muted ridge
granite bear
lime acorn
raven fern
daring thicket
#

Holy peak...

granite bear
#

chat i think i found the lights on ticket

image.png
austere lintel
#

I love Sanguine Tendon

proven spire
#

cooldown...

white patio
lime acorn
#

can you even get sent to the shadow realm more than once
Or do you have to wait a while

main hinge
#

?

#

Wrong thread?

cerulean stirrup
raven fern
lime acorn
proven spire
granite bear
gleaming bronze
#

I think nuclear amalgam might not be okay

Screenshot_from_2025-05-21_16-47-32.png
austere lintel
#

For something "nuclear" that explosion radius is way too small. withering

gleaming bronze
#

half of the castle had collateral damage OhTheMisery

#

Okay more thoughts on specs in r1, since its been a while and a lot of nerfs happened. The spawn rate is pretty reasonable now, even with legionnaire 5 the game was no longer spawning tormenteds faster then they could physically be killed. Individual tormenteds do not feel even at all though. About half of them are fine but the other still feel like they really were not meant to be fought in lower regions.

proven spire
#

iirc mscr said he wouldnt try to balance them for r1

gleaming bronze
#

The twisted scouts in particular stood out as insanely overpowered, easily stronger then 3 weaker tormenteds combined. Twisted scouts have insanely fast run speed, they can outrun the player since r1 armor has very little speed. They also have abitlies that make approaching in melee almost impossible since they spam so hard and also do the most damage out of all tormenteds by a mile. I tried countering them with projectile protection, only to find out the arrow attacks arent acutally projectile attacks. They just have everything and can overwhelm every class expect for scout (who can outrange).

#

The big thing I think is just their walk speed, they are too fast and its what amplifies everything else they can do.

#

Twisteds with slow down effects are also very dangerous since again, they seem to be balanced around r3 walk speed. Like twisted elementalist I wasnt really able to figure out how to approach without getting hit since I was slowed down so much, to the point wehre you cannot even avoid the telegraphed blast attack (I resorted to using shield on the first blast, then ire of the gods out of the second blast). Fortunately elementist does not have overtuned damage so it isnt so bad when it is alone, but in general the slowness effects are very punishing in such a low mobility region.

#

Lastly twisted reaper is very broken, since you are more or less doomed if you get pulled into a hoard of mobs, this isnt r3 where all classes have fast recharging nukes. If you get dragged into a bad position you just die 9 times out of 10

#

Even in the other regions I think the reaper is way to powerful, its definitely the strongest tormented overall when you also consider all of the other mobs assisting them. A high HP enemy with a fast recharging pull and invulnerable minions is just really really annoying to deal with.

gleaming bronze
gleaming bronze
# gleaming bronze Okay more thoughts on specs in r1, since its been a while and a lot of nerfs hap...

I do want to reemphasize that I think most of the tormenteds are fine in r1 though, its the ones that affect your movement or are physically faster then you that I think stand out as kind of problematic as there is very limited counter play. Most of the time the best counter play is yellow tess to scout, who can feast on all twisteds in r1 since that class is just really strong vs them all (expect reaper).

austere lintel
gleaming bronze
#

the tenebrist? Is pretty annoying ya

austere lintel
#

No.

#

The Reaper.

#

Mr. Judgement Chain.

#

Also Sanik speed.

gleaming bronze
#

Is gravecalller not the judgement chain guy?

austere lintel
#

Gravecaller is the Tenebrist.

gleaming bronze
#

I might of mixed together the 2 warlock ones in my head then (I just edited the text to say twisted reaper)

#

since judgement chain is the least fair attack and its the one I was bothered by

vague summit
#

you either have to go super far back before it starts pulling or idk tank it healing and putting you in a terrible spot

muted ridge
#

Reaper is kinda displeasurable yeah

#

the pull spam and the hyperspeed

wise palm
latent rock
#

Instead of pulling you in, the Prosecutor should pull creepers on top of you to simulate the feeling of playing with a Reaper on your team

wise palm
#

Truth nuke

delicate anvil
#

Only dealt with some of the R1 Tormented so far. Can agree that the Scout ones are awful to deal with. Especially Razor, the thing eats half your health. And if one spawns in an area that requries going up a latter and you died upstairs, it's almost impossible to get back that grave without having a back-up set. Other than that, I felt like a lot of them can be easily dealt with a Bow and had resonable enough HP in R1.

#

Also, I still have no idea what the Twisted Reaper's summons do. Weirdly felt like Chain was a non-issue when you isolated the Tormented and have a shield

#

Also, also, oml, Cleric deals with them way better than Warrior in R1, it is night and day.

wise palm
#

I think the summons damage you if you hit them

buoyant sonnet
#

twisted voodoo dolls damage any player in their radius when they take damage

#

happily R1pilled players rarely have massive collateral AoEs

lofty salmon
snow pilot
kind light
#

Is there anything going to be done about shadestepper stealth . A 3k HP mob with 95% stealth uptime is just not fun to fight

lime acorn
#

good point we should nerf assassin

muted ridge
austere lintel
#

Shade can burn in hell ❤️

raven fern
#

shade vs eclipse splitter

open crest
#

I don't know what can be said as I feel ppl already mention mutiple time, but pls do some change to spiritcaller

gleaming bronze
#

pictured here is the twisted hunters fox hitting me so many times so quickly, that my armor runs out of durability and I instantly die. This happened in ONE combo, from about to break, to out of durability in one attack cycle (the twisted then proceeds to aura farm at my spawn point and I left the pink section to avoid death loop and repair)

Screenshot_from_2025-05-23_00-47-18.png
#

twisted fox is pretty silly, i'm not sure why it attacks like 10 times in one second. It could just do more damage and attack fewer times but its a small nit pick

austere lintel
#

But the stunlock... 🥹

#

The precious stunlock.

lime acorn
#

Regularity hypixel pit

austere lintel
#

To hell with that entire Tormented.

gleaming bronze
#

the stun lock part of the fox does not need to be replicated

lime acorn
snow pilot
gleaming bronze
#

the dude has more hit points then the elites too....

#

granted r2 elite are just indistinguishable from regular enemies but still the fox is quite strong

austere lintel
#

It also becomes way too fast with delve modifiers.

#

So trying to shoot or hit it just becomes an asspain.

gleaming bronze
#

I talked yesterday about twisted scouts being crazy in r1, but honestly they might just be too strong in general. It doesent always feel this way in r3, where you have overpowered builds that kill the bosses instantly, but when you are fighting them, for lack of a better term for real its so so bad. Twisted have so much more hp (comparatively) in the lower regions, in r2 a 1500 hp enemy is like a 11000 hp r3 enemy. They also hit harder (comparatively) too, I had 150 ehp across the board and I still take 60% of my health from regular attacks from twisted scout (in r1 I take 80% of my ehp again in tanky builds)

austere lintel
#

While sending out my own fox could help against it, then what? The fox would then just attack the tormented and guess the threshold currently for it to get shot and turned into a Ninetails is to just attack the Deadeye (aka literally just exist)

gleaming bronze
#

I feel like twisted scouts (both ranger and hunter) are just stronger then 3 regular tormented combined

austere lintel
#

Also love that Deadeye just has built in shield break, I believe?

gleaming bronze
#

they are borderline unapproachable on melee classes and are certainly undodgeble in close range (like what are you supposed to do as melee when the ranger uses the 360 volley attack; it even goes through shields)

lime acorn
#

I feel like the volley should only come out after it hits its shots or after a very long time passes

#

Or if there are multiple players

gleaming bronze
#

and of course there fast movement speed lets them catch up to you in r1 and also outspeed you in r2 as well, requiring multiple movement spells / ire to get away

#

the ranged enemies running faster then the melee ones doesent sit right with me

lime acorn
#

I think twisted scout should have the ex yellow boomline sniper attack

austere lintel
#

Yeah, without delve modifiers it wouldn't be too threatening in Jeremy either.

#

My only issue with that is: Deadeye has 7 skills already.

open crest
#

for the twisted ninetail

austere lintel
#

And Ninetail adds another 3.

open crest
#

u see recenet i am testing reaper

#

that kind of reaper has judgement chain and offhand shield

#

and i can't really hit it even with hold my shield, chain it, stand on flat surface

#

this small mf run so fucking fast, small hitbox, 200+ hp and it's melee stunlock me that i can't even dodge

#

this is part of reason i don't like vanilla passive/friendly mob being enemy because their ai in monumenta combat feel so jank

austere lintel
#

They should change it to a Silverfish ngl

#

Or Endermite

gleaming bronze
#

twisted hunters super move is also completely obscene, it requires the player to not just run away it requires the player to evaluate the entire room completely. You cannot fight back really, you need to find an open space in 2 seconds and then run for the duration of the entire attack. If there are too many mobs assisting the twisted then tough luck, since if you stop moving you die (do note that many other delve enemies have pulls and slows).

open crest
#

have u ever light mushroom cow in ex orange fire, they'll fucking run around just like twisted ninetail, while ninetail being more dangerous

#

and yet we have another set of player who go yeah i'll pstrike it, I understand is optimal way, but at the same time u can see Enhance twist not being a fun thing for normal class/player to deal with.

gleaming bronze
#

I also had a hard time hitting the fox with melee, maybe I am just not used to having to fight hostile foxes but I dont see how I could focus on meleeing such a small fast moving enemy multiple times all while the hunter is attacking me too

austere lintel
#

If it was Twisted Sentinel then dealing with those fast little mfs would be doable because the twisted itself is relatively tame.

#

But Deadeye is a walking Touhou boss.

open crest
#

I also understand they are not meant to solo, but lfg dungeon already not a easy fill thing, and yet is fragment is require for new content, so what can I do if i keep dying to some bullshit situation, like vanguard's Iron Madien even peresit after I die and able to kill me when I try to retrive my grave.

gleaming bronze
#

the sentinels foxes also dont have powerful attacks

open crest
#

At the end I'll just think this mod is generally not fun to play with, and will go fucking pstrike scout and see tm add more anti "certain scout skill technique" to boss move

#

I think i complain enough, u can see my yesterday screenshot where my team meet ton of spiritcaller in ex-white

austere lintel
#
  • Eagle Eye
  • Split Arrow
  • Shield breaking arrows
  • Traps
  • Machine gun
  • Bunny hops
  • Fox
  • Stunlock (fox)
  • Dash (fox)
  • Anti-Hunting Companion
open crest
#

I don't know how tm test it, is just not fun to play with

austere lintel
#

Too much, too much, too much.

open crest
#

yet i am force to play it because new boss is such a fun thing

gleaming bronze
#

just like the sentinel, the tormented scouts can also do that thing where they build in mid air and rain down attacks vs you. When that happens, the enemy is just acutally unapproachable. You cannot even kb it off the blocks

austere lintel
#

"Test" is a big word

#

Whoever "tested" Deadeye needs to be fired

open crest
#

does my broken english imply something more bad then i thought

main hinge
austere lintel
#

Or punished with only Deadeyes spawning in their EEC, EDD, CZ instances forever so they get a taste of their own medicine.

open crest
gleaming bronze
#

the deadeye is just very aggressively anti melee, you can acutally react to them if you fight at longer ranges

#

its the most anti melee mob I think we have seen (which is saying a lot since there is also tormented reaper....)

open crest
#

is easier to name which one is melee friendly

#

where melee is not stealth spam or bers go boom

austere lintel
#

Deadeye and Shadestepper are just full of bs.

#

Period.

gleaming bronze
#

shadestepper is very annoying, but at least its not powerful. All of dead eyes moves are lethal, they pretty much all 2 tap tanky builds

austere lintel
#

Let me just turn glow on and crash my game real quick.

gleaming bronze
#

my r2 beserker was able to stand up to shade stepper for while, I could survive hits and regen some of the damage off. It was not enough to kill in one engagement, but it did die in 3 fights. Deadeye hit me with that eagle eye + regular attack and I lost all of my nearly all of my health through ethereal and have to run away (expect I cannot run away, it runs faster then me and I dont have a glorius battle)

#

in r1, you uh just die if you are effected by eagle eye and get hit by anything

gleaming bronze
austere lintel
#

I can't even gaslight myself by calling that a silver lining anymore.

#

And thank god the enemy that is invisible 95% of the time also has PStrike enrage.

lime acorn
#

Maybe it could take a leaf from the transcendent rework and have bursts of quicker shots, but then a downtime period where it does nothing

gleaming bronze
#

Tormented tier list

S tier- panic. Reaper, hunter, ranger, tenebrist, swordsage
A tier- very dangerous. Assassin, hexbreaker, soothsayer, Hierophant
B tier- no nonsense. Apothecary, Guardian, Palladian, elementalist,
C tier- pretty manageable- Harbringer, arcanist, berserker

#

Some of the B tier guys can cheese you (like guardian insta killing you in multiplayer sometimes) but they generally arent too dangerous, at least when they are relatively alone and in open spaces

#

Harbringer I complained about destroying too many blocks but its not an particularly overpowered enemy strength wise on its own

lime acorn
#

Oh by the way would you like to guess how hexbreaker, which spawns a magic damage floor that hits you several times per second, interacts with reflection?

gleaming bronze
lime acorn
#

it's actually not that high DPS ngl

#

I mean if you're running less than 200 ehp you'll die before it does

gleaming bronze
#

hexbreaker is very hard to approach, with all of the spam. Its kinda just a stronger version of the paladin (they have similar signature moves).

lime acorn
#

But, uh, it chunks 15% of its own health per second in 70pt

gleaming bronze
#

thorns cleric W

lime acorn
#

I think vanguard should get reckless swing that consumes its own health and rampage which heals itself

gleaming bronze
lime acorn
austere lintel
#

My tierlist (as a Hunter in 70pts PoIs):

S tier- fun to play against: Revenant, Tempest
A tier- alright: Bishop, Watchman, Primordialist, Moonweaver, Artificer, Abomination
B tier- tolerable: Gravecaller
C tier- boring: Vanguard, Spiritcaller, Omenspeaker, Crusader
D tier- full of bs: Prosecutor, Shadestepper, Deadeye

#

Revenant is so fun I intentionally shoot it with PStrike to enrage it yey

gleaming bronze
# gleaming bronze Tormented tier list S tier- panic. Reaper, hunter, ranger, tenebrist, swordsage...

another one I want to talk about is the hierophant, or bishop. Its A tier since it is really good at completely shutting down melee classes, one of its minions is just immune to basic melee attacks and has very very high health; it despawns but its very effective at keeping you away from the miniboss. The attacks also cover a lot of space which makes it even harder to approach. Once it gets low it starts flying and thats when things really get bad, it gets even harder to hit attacks faster and starts giving surrounding mobs shields.

#

Meanwhile ranged classes just hold S and win vs that guy

#

I wouldn't mind seeing the hierophant get a bit more range in exchange for having weaker zoning tools and minions

granite bear
#

Deadeye (solo 12pt ) spawn 4 foxes right after I pstrike it 💀

austere lintel
#

Fox Frenzy except those foxes deal actual damage

#

This is cheating.

#

Report and ban Deadeye.

snow pilot
snow pilot
#

Once it starts pulling you in, you somehow can't stop it...even by placing blocks

#

And if you try hiding before it pulls, it often breaks the wall you were hiding behind before it pulls 💀

#

It is the worst when the -max HP ability gets synchronized with the end of the pull

gleaming bronze
#

me when the persecutor uses super speed to jump into the reverie lava and then pulls me into the lava, blocks my healing and slows me all while 8 ghasts are shooting from above

proven spire
#

Twisted Prosecutor is the only part of the justice system that is innescapable suffer

gleaming bronze
snow pilot
gleaming bronze
#

ya thats why the pull is so bad, since most of the time its just dragging you into the hoard or into some terrible terrain

snow pilot
snow pilot
gleaming bronze
#

and tormenteds are bullet sponges (especially in r2 my god), unlike the other pull enemies that go down quickly

#

r2 scaling goes stupid on the tormenteds, I havent even done max pts yet and its already so crazy

proven spire
snow pilot
proven spire
snow pilot
proven spire
#

bf stacking is gonna see changes i feel but thats warrior in general

snow pilot
gleaming bronze
#

unfortunately in the next update they are removing beserkers ability to jump. You see it is unrealistic since in real life beserkers would have a hard time jumping in their armor which was not designed for movements like that. This will put beserker's brute force damage in line and nerf glorius battle looping

snow pilot
snow pilot
snow pilot
proven spire
#

alchemist might be still usable

#

mage would just OhTheMisery

limpid zephyr
main hinge
proven spire
main hinge
#

The aoe bf setup runs 9 cp mininum for ~25% of your original hit’s dmg in a 3.9 block radius

#

And while 3.9 block radius is large, I would not consider it the entire room

#

Any BF focused build also has to worry about attack speed as a stat, is vulnerable to hit stun interrupting crits, and has almost no charm power free to spend on anything else

#

I’m not sure I’d consider that overpowered when you invest your entire build’s stat budget into it and caster bers exists

#

It could maybe be overtuned, but I dont think its as overpowered as people keep claiming it is

proven spire
#

indeed

wise palm
#

Spirit of nature from the spiritcaller should move vertically more, if you go a few blocks lower it stays the same height like 6 block in the air out of melee distance, while the tree spawning bolt spawns at ground level meaning you can get insta-hit by it while trying to swipe at the sky

main hinge
#

has the coop DR bug been fixed yet

wise palm
#

Can primoridalist's spirits despawn when the collider appears? I'm standing right next to it trying to dps it and I just can't because I'm getting knocked around by the other 7 attacks that are still going (including the immortal dot aura on frost), feels really bad to lose to it because you can't even hit it

#

At this point I think I might just ignore the mechanic and run 50 blocks back to avoid it :/

quiet wharf
#

It is quite annoying when the frost spirit just sits there on the collider

#

The frost spirit in general is really annoying

#

It'll usually just sit on the elementalist and be really annoying

lime acorn
#

Maybe buff their speed when near the collider?

#

or just prevent them from going close

fickle temple
granite bear
#

Is it possible to make primordialist spirit invulnerable ( smth like jerem sword )

main hinge
#

Arent they already invuln

open crest
#

maybe pine mean can't block player hit

#

@granite bear explainnnn

main hinge
#

Dont the jend swords block melee hits

open crest
#

casual melee not friendly

granite bear
main hinge
#

?

granite bear
open crest
#

i think i get and doesn't get what u mean

main hinge
#

As far as I’m aware what you’re asking for doesnt exist

#

Twisted jend swords are still targetable

strange vector
#

a marker armor stand ig?

#

not sure if those can have heads or move around though

fickle temple
#

they should

wise palm
#

The best way to present information (Solo btw)

image.png
#

The bottom 5 all have a similar thing in common: High uptime abilities/summons that make it way harder to actually do anything. Moonweaver just has huge radius spells, and gravecaller's haunted is way easier to deal with compared

#

Artificer has the 80% uptime omega homing panacea
Spiritcaller has the surprisingly high health spirits of nature
Primordialist has constant ice/fire spirits up
Deadeye has the impossible to hit as melee ninetails, pretty high uptime split arrow/other stuff

main hinge
#

from what class perspective is this list

open crest
#

I must ask what class, what kind of charm u run, is this based on r3

wise palm
#

Bishop/Vanguard are meant to be team players so they definitely get way stronger with other enemies around them, but on their own they kinda just do a couple spells and die

wise palm
#

R3

main hinge
#

wait how are you not getting bodied by the bishop shield wall minion

wise palm
#

They only spawn at like 30% health, so I just kite it until my cooldowns are back and then burst the bishop so it despawns

#

Bishop does nothing for the top 70% of its HP I swear

main hinge
#

that's true

wise palm
#

Tempest in my experience has a bit of AoE, but it's not difficult to dodge and you just have to run back a bit every time you hit him to avoid the winds, but it just kinda dies

main hinge
#

i play cleric and warrior mostly, the shield wall minion alone singlehandedly makes me hate bishop personally

#

the rest of it's pretty whatever yeah

wise palm
#

I think stealth helps out a ton against that guy, or at least they have a movement speed diff so I can get behind it and to the bishop without much trouble

main hinge
#

tempest i think scales in difficulty with players

#

esp if your team mates are running squishier classes

wise palm
#

Yeah sounds like it from what I hear, does a wind walk for each player and if they get hit it does it again

#

something like that

main hinge
#

spiritcaller too

wise palm
#

Pretty much all of the ones in "easy" can do a number on me, but I don't find them super difficult to kite/avoid their ult moves, can definitely depend on terrain for crusader/revenant for example

main hinge
#

the amount of aoe it does scales with playercount which is bearable right up until the aoe exceeds the amount of walkable space present around it

muted ridge
#

spiritcaller is so miserable as a melee class

wise palm
#

Yeah I've been hit by the trees a couple times, but most of those are just because the spirit of nature is kinda tanky and then just spawns a tree on me while I'm hitting him undodgeable

main hinge
#

i'm surprised you put watchman in easy though, a lot of ppl seem to hate it

wise palm
#

Whirling is a bit annoying but I feel like I just tank it enough to not bother half the time

muted ridge
#

i do not like prosecutor

#

jchain feels way too spammed

#

its not difficult its just actively unfun

main hinge
#

My understanding is that ppl hate the foxes in particular

muted ridge
#

not sure what the hell is going on with shadestepper

wise palm
#

Shadestepper has like half the health, but then 50% of the time he just like 1 taps me out of no where lol

#

Also feel like unless I'm running a class with AoE I can't hit him out of stealth even if I can see his sprint particles

main hinge
#

There’s some conditions that seems to be relatively easy to trigger that cause the fox summons to just randomly KO you by rapidly hitting you apparently

#

I guess assassin stealth maybe does a relatively good job of causing those conditions to not trigger maybe?

wise palm
#

I've been hit by the omega attack speeds but it never does real damage, it just fucking stun locks you, it's a wolf so it's impossible to hit, has speed 1000 AND there's a whole ass hunter about to pstrike you

main hinge
wise palm
#

Ngl I made this list after running my bounty at Arx, getting primordialist + deadeye, dying to both due to unfettered BS and didn't get another one lol

#

I used all 3 methods of stealth on a single ninetails and literally could not melee it to get the damage off because it's zooming around like a bee on cocaine

main hinge
#

I’ve literally fought a watchman like twice ever somehow so idk personally

muted ridge
#

this is why i have 10kbr

main hinge
#

Has the hp threshold bug been fixed yet

vague summit
#

imo on asasssin

image.png
wise palm
#

I think I have prevents gravecaller's ritual like once lol

vague summit
#

oh i forgot shaman didnt exist when this list was made

marble quiver
#

i dont really bother preventing it sometimes if it takes more resources than i care to use up

vague summit
#

i think spriticaller is 50 50 for me on assassin and omenbreaker is free

wise palm
#

The guys have a surprising amount of hp and I can't get around to each of them quick enough, but it doesn't matter cause the gravesoul is fine to fight anyways

vague summit
#

apoth is by far the most annoying, maybe not the most difficult but its just so annoying

#

the panacea just d oesnt let u exist

#

its way too fast

#

even on my dedicated set i grind tormented with the apoth is the most deadly in 10pt on hexbreaker

#

because even tho i build speed the panacea catches up wtih u

#

and lasts forever

wise palm
#

It doesn't do that much damage or whatever, but the slowness, reduced damage and just constant damage ticks is so annoying and it legit has 80% uptime so it's super boring to fight just running around in circles waiting for an opening

vague summit
#

it is kinda aloto f dmg if u get hit

#

wither 8 for like 4 seconds

#

and i think it does dmg you a little sineci died to the panacea melee not even the wither once

wise palm
#

LOL

#

I heard someone saying they could split arrow kill it, but I think I tried walking up an meleeing it and didn't get any hits so might be aoe only or just a rumour

vague summit
#

idk i have skirm u and it hasnt died for me sadmouse

wise palm
#

ya same 😭

compact tide
austere lintel
#

The panacea has a very small "hitbox" where if you shoot, it "dies".

#

A direct Quickdraw took it out.

#

But the hitbox is very very small.

#

I'm saying this with 100% certainty.

#

But I also never tried killing the Panacea with other classes so idk how they interact.

tame radish
#

@marble quiver can you make the collider hitbox a mile wide yet

granite bear
lime acorn
#

after finally facing twisted deadeye solo for the first time I can confidently say, what the fuck were they cooking

granite bear
granite bear
lime acorn
#

it's only the pstrike that I find egregious

compact tide
#

i find everything harder to do on melee classes

#

maybe i should not use situ stack against them

raven fern
#

once set my spawn at the beginning of conservatory

#

that shit stunlocked me at spawn and sent me to triple shatter

finite sky
#

Tormenteds in r1 are the most overstatted mobs in the game

#

every single one 1-2 taps in my fully infused tanky warrior build

raven fern
#

eh i guess i dont have that issue because every mob 1 taps me anyway in r1

#

but its like 13 arrows and theyre dead

raven fern
granite bear
vague summit
#

its just on tierlist maker i just searched up monumenta

granite bear
kind light
#

has anyone played tormented in r1

#

they feel unreasonably strong

granite bear
kind light
#

in r2 they are the only thing i really die to as well but at least i can fight back

kind light
granite bear
kind light
#

not all of them are magic dmg

granite bear
open crest
granite bear
#

Cannot load message OhTheMisery

main hinge
#

What if global damage penalty for tormenteds in r1

dreamy dune
#

they do

austere lintel
#

not good enough

granite bear
compact tide
granite bear
compact tide
#

the twisteds

#

the tormenteds

austere lintel
granite bear
compact tide
#

close enough

granite bear
compact tide
#

i just have the same issue on all classes 💀

quiet wharf
#

I was gonna ask why people hate the Hunter one so much but then I realized they added the fox which might be the worst thing ever

#

Outside of the fox it's really annoying but manageable

wise palm
#

The fox is honestly like 60% of the danger lmao

#

You either attempt to kill it (way harder on melee) or attempt to ignore it

#

Either way you risk taking damage from the other one

raven fern
#

me when i get shatter 3d in spawn by the fox

granite bear
#

85%

#

it can delete your foxes

#

and make it attack you

#

draining all your hp in 1 second

wise palm
#

I don't take that much damage from it, nor run scout it's just super annoying and is a lay up for the tormented thwacking you

granite bear
#

😭

raven fern
#

me when predstrike instantly triggers its ult

vague summit
#

spiritualist in ur js dead king and omen at easy

vivid peak
#

spiritcaller isn't that bad imo

#

just awkward

#

well depends on terrain mostly if you can get away before tree spawns

main hinge
#

Between some bugs and the limited movable area

#

Even if you want to fight it, you’re not allowed to

#

At some point, the aoe coverage of spiritcaller + minions scales higher than the surface area of its vicinity and thus it is no longer possible to approach the twisted

vague summit
#

on assassin its kinda whatever since you can deal with the druids but on guardian its really bad

#

on anything with range you can reasonably dodge the homing shots

#

so its not nearly asm uch as an issue

#

this is my hexbreaker tier list

image.png
#

spiritualist in easy and omen in afk

proven spire
#

According to 🐦 alchemical artillery triggers vbonds for Prosecutor just like pstrike.
"thats like, just a normal part of alchemist's kit"

vague summit
#

fire..

#

as if that one wasnt already hard enough

proven spire
#

aa triggering it seems weird

vivid peak
#

i haven't played that much tormented 5 with more than one or two people yet

daring thicket
#

Spiritcaller in multiplayer is insane

raven fern
#

bro was making mini wolfswood inside amanita colony

vivid peak
#

sob

raven fern
#

but solo spiritcaller is chill

#

cos you literally just run circuits around it

proven spire
#

until a narrow corridor

#

and ur lighting totem (playing sooth) targets the twisted

main hinge
proven spire
#

and not the spirit

main hinge
#

had a spiritcaller spawn at the end of arx and follow someone into the boss arena, its aoe covered the entire arena and then it ate the walls of the arena to make the area bigger and then had the aoes extend into that expanded area too because it wasn't satisfied

proven spire
#

domain expansion:
team trees

lime acorn
#

actually reaper is probably just Easy

daring thicket
#

Tenebrist placement is so real

#

The shitter shade is so painful to kite around and the silence is like

lime acorn
#

gravesoul abomination is actually them leaking withering gaze being turned into a revive

limpid zephyr
proven spire
#

all aoe abil class lol

lime acorn
#

cannot wait for the (1 max targets) on every spell charm for arcanist

#

every class... Was destined... To get deepslate chunk

snow pilot
main hinge
# lime acorn

Wait how is hiero “kills itself” but paladin isnt

snow pilot
#

I do remember the flying shield wall procing reflection A LOT

#

And it actually wipes a good chunk of mobs if left going for long enough

vague summit
#

i dobut u can tank that

main hinge
#

The minions arent the issue for tcleric, the boss being floating up in the air where i cant whack it with reflection is

lime acorn
lime acorn
#

hexbreaker, uh
Hexbreaker genuinely deletes itself and the entire mob wave as soon as it hits 66%

lime acorn
main hinge
#

Mine likes to float away and then do the trident storm attack from up high

#

its kind of annoying trying to climb up a ladder or walk up stairs and oops you’re hitstun locked for a few seconds

gleaming bronze
#

I think its good that people have pretty mixed opinions on tormented strength

#

everybody saying hunter is op is a common thread though

snow pilot
#

Prosecutor is also relatively common, but it is not always the case

vivid peak
#

prosecutor is just annoying

snow pilot
#

I love when I try to anticipate the tether beam by going behind the wall...and then the Prosecutor just eats the wall and casts it anyway

vivid peak
#

you can't escape jchain

gleaming bronze
#

prosecutor needs to go 😤

vivid peak
#

is it guaranteed that you lose half max hp at the end of jchain or can you do something to avoid it

gleaming bronze
#

its literally only fair if the tormented is completely alone; otherwise its just dragging you directly into a hoard of delve mobs and you die no matter what your playing

granite bear
daring thicket
snow pilot
snow pilot
gleaming bronze
snow pilot
#

Want to hide? Nope! Your coming straight back to the center of attention and you get to solemnly watch as you die to the Predator Strike

gleaming bronze
#

I had to fight prosecutor + x2 deadeye on release in r1.....

snow pilot
#

AND in R1 💀

granite bear
ember quartz
#

Ok so

#

I thought the hunter wasn't supposed to target the eagles?

#

Coz it's shooting em

austere lintel
#

Time to cancel mscr

#

(for legal reasons, this is a joke)

wise palm
#

Is it possible to kill the abomination's creepers without them just exploding afterwards anyways. Feels pretty anti-melee and you've just gotta avoid these bombs

#

Don't have many opportunities to test, but every time I've tried to kill them as melee they just drop their payload killing me lul

#

If you just ignore galactic collider and run 50 blocks away primordialist is still a bit annoying with the spirits, but becomes significantly easier lol

lime acorn
#

I think galactic collider should summon iron maiden around itself

strange vector
#

i have not once ever died to a deadeye

#

however i get cooked alive by prosecutors

wise palm
#

Definitely class dependent

marble quiver
#

the revenant has sometimes just decided my life is fake when i pstrike it

#

which is probably the better of the antiscout things to be honest

#

the reaper and other ones still have some fuckery i need to clean up at some point

lime acorn
#

if you have more than two seconds of mobility deadeye is fine

#

but still kinda oppressive

#

if you're a melee with 100% speed you're just dead. Can't do anything or disengage in time

lime acorn
#

can tormenteds PLEASE try a little harder to leave water

image.png
snow pilot
wise palm
#

Twisted Kraken pulling you to the depths

lime acorn
#

If twisteds are changed to spawning leviathans when underwater, I think that tormenteds should spawn the twisted intruder when underwater

#

jokes aside: leviathan specs when

snow pilot
lime acorn
#

twisted that summons whirlpools and waves and uses a trident

gleaming bronze
#

they are really annoying when they swim in lava too sadmouse

#

you cannot even kill them when they are sun bathing since it burns your fragment

kind light
#

btw in gray if a spiritcaller summons a tree on you , you cannot break it

proven spire
#

omg

#

that "feature"

kind light
#

only ways out are death or someone heals you and you white tess

proven spire
#

didnt someone joke about adding a mob that places wood blocks in gray

#

the irony

kind light
#

is it me or does spirit caller have 0 similarities with the actual spec

proven spire
#

it has whirpool totem

#

i think

lime acorn
proven spire
lime acorn
#

it has
Healing

that's it

proven spire
#

what does whirpool totem even do

lime acorn
#

This is because sanctuary is such a nothing burger skill that they couldn't even make a good skill adaptation for it

lime acorn
#

It probably shortens enemy cooldowns or smth

proven spire
#

ah yes

#

very noticable

raven fern
#

it has whirlpool totem and has totemic projection

wise palm
#

Tormenteds seem to get really confused with scaffolding, not pictured here is him spinning around like a madman, not moving or block breaking

2025-05-28_15.37.03.png
main hinge
#

New meta, place scaffold under twisted to drive it insane

fickle temple
#

so you're... twisting them?

lime acorn
#

get it tormented

austere lintel
#

"Look at me. Who is the tormented one now?"

main hinge
#

Do u think its possible to trap a twisted with a piston and redstone clock

lime acorn
#

piston sheep

#

but twisted

compact tide
#

doesnt really need a piston

kind light
#

i think it would be quite nice if some twisted abilities did not linger after the twisteds death like hurricane dance/panancea/spiritcaller tree dmg/shadow clones/javelins

honest lark
#

why does tremor still stay after death

wise palm
#

yeah really annoying, died to it once and then learned that even if the boss is dead doesn't mean it's safe

lime acorn
#

How does Hexbreaker aggro work? It kept swapping between two people VERY quickly and didn't respond to choir

buoyant sonnet
#

@dreamy dune when you moved Lucid Rend did you remember to move the "i will tear them open. if i must." and "these blades. i don't need them now" dialogues

#

i think i diid not see them

lime acorn
#

they were moved

buoyant sonnet
#

oh welp

lime acorn
dreamy dune
buoyant sonnet
#

ah cool

lime acorn
#

It feels like watchman had all of its abilities stolen by deadeye

#

when fighting it I don't think I even saw a danger move

granite bear
#

Turn deadeye fox to watchman fox

#

Easy thumbsupcat

lime acorn
#

it does make sense given watchman's multihit > single hit damage

#

... also why does deadeye get long range fast moving near-constant transcendental missiles to every player that deal a large chunk of damage for every hit?

drowsy hatch
#

also disables shields btw

granite bear
#

Scout enjoyer against deadeye

strange vector
#

BREAD TASTES BETTER THAN KEY

lime acorn
#

can split arrow deal low damage but increasing amounts every time you're hit if it HAS to have a bullet hell move for split arrow

#

like, constantly

#

idk why it's not just "arrows ricochet towards enemies" or smth

marble quiver
#

i dont currently have a ton of time im able to dedicate to the tormenteds but ive been reading stuff in this channel and when im able i plan to rework the more problematic ones

limpid zephyr
granite bear
kind light
limpid zephyr
#

I didnt play sooth personally but i heard r3 sooth is atleast good

#

At the very least it has a niche, ranger is lr spec and nothing more

proven spire
#

sooth has the most op healing ability out of any class

kind light
proven spire
#

but it works on your whole team

lime acorn
#

okay to be fair hand of light also does that

proven spire
#

and has 2 charges

lime acorn
#

it's more like "has three pis at once"

proven spire
#

and works on yourself

#

and sooth has another healing totem

#

and sooth also has built in cdr

#

hiero is probably better heal bot in r3

#

but r2 soothsayer just wins on chw alone

kind light
#

charmed healing totem u is a lot more healing

#

with added absorbtion

#

but the spec just has no output

proven spire
#

well soothsayer has little other support besides cdr and heals

buoyant sonnet
#

freest tormented kill of my life

2025-06-02_19.31.04.png
#

these things have to handle verticality and water better somehow i think

#

cause a melee twisted / tormented which is below you or in water just becomes a free kill

#

and a ranged twisted / tormented which is below you or in water becomes unkillable because they outrange you

granite bear
buoyant sonnet
#

see water tormented is fine as long as it also gives conduit power in an aura

#

cause at least it would know how to move

#

the current twisteds just sit there

latent rock
#

chain healing wave is a 15 block radius monstrosity that you can stretch from one end of SR to the other

strange vector
#

Special todmented

lime acorn
#

I know that it doesn't scale; however, it really seems like you get much more tormenteds with multiple players proportional to one player

lime acorn
#

also would it be possible to make galactic collider glow if it's currently just a floating head armor stand