SKR Feedback Thread

[grizzled sun]

I guess he mean it won't be random

Just 1 question

[glacial gulch]

no cuz that means out of all possuible inputs multiple gets you the chest, and that makes the puzzle easier

also there's no abandon button in puzzzles ok that one's on me

[low jetty]

#bugs-fixed-for-next-update message

[grizzled sun]

I think button part is a bug

[low jetty]

that is also a bug

[grizzled sun]

Why is it take multiple answer a problem to u

[glacial gulch]

cuz that makes the puzzle easier than intended

it's like the 50/50 in minesweepers

[low jetty]

that.. doesn't make any sense

imagine if you got a puzzle that in theory had multiple solutions but only one is marked as right (which is how it is now) and you formulate the wrong solution. that really, really sucks.

the puzzle itself is built in a way where it may have multiple solutions

[grizzled sun]

u still need to solve rest part, and when it need to take mutiple answer, make it only take one of them doesn't make it harder/challenge just annoy

[feral cliff]

what

I think you've misunderstood that bugfix

[rigid oyster]

The idea of skr was to make a hoard-like content for r3 right? a bonus for doing other content

Thinking about it, isnt it kinda weird for it to drop its own keys, fragment or whole

it also gotta make doing the math really fucking annoying when you've introduced recursion in

[cursive sphinx]

Hoard specifically? No that wasn't the intent

The idea was to fill the void in bite-sized content that was left by transitioning to mega-pois in R3

[cobalt dawn]

Ironically I feel like that niche was replaced by strikes

[rigid oyster]

what

MR and bite sized should not go in the same sentence

[cobalt dawn]

I guess those require a group though

[cobalt dawn]

ok portal specifically

[rigid oyster]

portal is fast because u usually have 4 people spreading out in different directions

if u did pois with 4 ppl splitting the spawners between themselves, I don't think it'd be slower

[rigid oyster]

idk what else to compare "do other content for a rare chance to obtain access to this shorter content that drops abnormally high loot for time spent"

[feral cliff]

we shifted more towards hoard when development picked up

you might have missed the convo I can link it if you want #1057441253467365466 message

[rigid oyster]

regardless, I feel like caches being able to drop scrolls or scroll frags seems kinda weird and makes things complicated

[feral cliff]

if with the new rates a loop is born I can kill it in a hotfix

[rigid oyster]

i'm not talking about from a balancing perspective this time, to clarify

its kinda like

idk how to put it into works

[feral cliff]

it initially jumped out as an obvious potential dopamine chase

without it caches may be rather lacking in that regard

[slender mortar]

A gut feeling that hmm this doesnt feel right

[rigid oyster]

doesn't getting a hoard key from doing hoard seem weird

[feral cliff]

yes, kind of

[slender mortar]

If it really tickles your funny bone you can buy hoard keys for seashells and doubloons

[cobalt dawn]

"holy shit, two hoards"

[silver lake]

dopamine

[cobalt dawn]

(yes)

[feral cliff]

varcosa's second stash

anywho I'd need a valid chase to replace it

and i dont know what that is

unless rares theoretically cover that niche well enough

[rigid oyster]

assuming the rare rebalances next week make some of the less desirable items better

[feral cliff]

I'd probably remove the self referential and decrease cost of caches

[silver lake]

I like scrolls being droppable in the cache since they're relly rare I think..

[rigid oyster]

i'd think it'd at least partially cover it

[silver lake]

as long as seq is removed atleast

[feral cliff]

seq is dead and gone

actually no I didnt updat ethe table

doing that now

[rigid oyster]

my other issue is

the idea is that sequence vs regular scrolls is kinda intended to be a personal preference thing right

[feral cliff]

right

[feral cliff]

okay now its dead and gone

[rigid oyster]

but dropping a scroll instead of frags kinda forces that choice on you so its not really

[feral cliff]

does it

[rigid oyster]

you have to first do like a bunch of caches or buy the frags off other ppl before u can do your first sequence

[feral cliff]

frags go towards any of the three, reg scrolls can either be used or just go towards seq. whats the forced choice here?

[rigid oyster]

oh right you killed the dormant scroll drop thing

ignore that then

[feral cliff]

oaker

[feral cliff]

thanks discord?

[snow wharf]

uh

is your discord unupdated

its a poll results message

[worthy pivot]

i ate it

i did not agree with the pole

[feral cliff]

yeah that’d be it- I’m about 110 versions behind on mobile

[glacial gulch]

Yeah so edit the puzzle in such a way that there's only 1 possible solution to the puzzle
Like take for example the lb quest ||towers|| puzzle, that one only had 1 solution

Actually better wording, think of the tower of hanoi puzzle except there's a button that allows you to add more towers unlimited times
That's what multiple solution means to me, you might as well just make a puzzle scroll -> 6 fragment npc trade at that point

[nova mango]

sequoia wynncraft ....

[rigid oyster]

Checking if the puzzle was generated in a way that there is only one solution would require being able to detect for multiple solutions

At which point… if you’re added a check for multiple solutions u might as well just take said solutions you’ve checked

[glacial gulch]

why would you generate it on the spot

just have a DB in the back that contains like 200 of the puzzles

[low jetty]

Is that not a set solution?

[low jetty]

No

[glacial gulch]

what do you not have db of all the puzzles?

[true cave]

or just accept all solutions

because checking for solutions is easy

[true cave]

why would you

[rigid oyster]

Are you suggesting ppl generate 200+ copies of a puzzle and run them all thru a solver manually

[glacial gulch]

ok fine ill just play with a 5 year old toy then ig

[true cave]

db in this case does nothing

when u can just generate it

[rigid oyster]

It is

[glacial gulch]

no whenever someone "rolls" for the puzzle type, just pick a random one out from the db, and check if it matches

[rigid oyster]

What

That still requires doing what i said

[low jetty]

What even is the point of making it harder when you can just generate it

[rigid oyster]

You dont just generate a db from nothing

[low jetty]

Besides "getting one solution"

[glacial gulch]

wait are you randomly generating the puzzle each time someone rolls for it?

[feral cliff]

yes this is how all puzzles work

except ice slider I suppose

[glacial gulch]

how do you know any randomly generated puzzle is valid?

(aka has 1+ solution)

[rigid oyster]

The same way you generate most puzzles?

[feral cliff]

What point are you trying to make mate

[low jetty]

Because all of the puzzles generate with a valid solution in mind?

[rigid oyster]

You generate a solution first and then generate the puzzle backwards from the solution

[glacial gulch]

convincing you (or the other devs) to only use 1 solution puzzles

[low jetty]

The bug fix makes it so it checks for other possible solutions so you aren't just locked into having one if you do what it doesn't expect

[rigid oyster]

Again what is the point

[feral cliff]

where is the benefit over this over what is currently implemented

[low jetty]

bro

[glacial gulch]

so you generate the solution, then assign the values?

[low jetty]

I didn't design the puzzle so I have no idea, but what I said is the jist of what it does

[glacial gulch]

it's so i can enjoy the puzzle rooms instead of going through a 5 year old toy

[rigid oyster]

???

[sudden ocean]

#bugs-fixed-for-next-update message

[glacial gulch]

that's not what my intent is, the fix still creates multiple solution puzzles

[rigid oyster]

So what?

Again, what is the problem

[feral cliff]

what does this even mean

[glacial gulch]

puzzles rooms are too easy

[sudden ocean]

???? solvers are going to exist regardless

[feral cliff]

you just want harder puzzles, okay..

lead with that next time I think

[glacial gulch]

what

that's what i was saying the whole time

[feral cliff]

your point was not made clear

[rigid oyster]

No it wasnt

Absolutely no one here understood what u wanted

[low jetty]

^^^

[feral cliff]

yeah ^

[grizzled sun]

^^^

[glacial gulch]

apparently im not allowed to talk

ok

[low jetty]

And why do we need to echo harder puzzles through towers

and like

just make different harder puzzles

I don't see the argument

[feral cliff]

you're more than welcome to speak, thats what the thread is for. we're saying we didnt understand your point. that is all.

[glacial gulch]

the towers was the most clear example with "multuiple solutions"

[glacial gulch]

yeah so i might as well not speak up

about this

[rigid oyster]

What does multiple solutions have to do with it being too easy

[deft spear]

having multiple solutions doesn't make it easier

[sudden ocean]

or just articulate your thoughts before you type

[grizzled sun]

1984 is different then not able to give understandable thought

[feral cliff]

I dont understand how you're coming to that conclusion

we couldnt understand your point

that doesnt mean you aren't allowed to speak

or try to communicate it

[glacial gulch]

if no one understands what im saying what's the point in speaking up about it?

[feral cliff]

well ideally you communicate it in a way that is understandable

[grizzled sun]

Did u see we are also trying to understand

[feral cliff]

which is why we asked questions

to understand you

Hard mode puzzles I could see happening

they'd just need to be made

rather than retrofitting current ones to become harder

[glacial gulch]

I mean my original goal was to "remove the current puzzles" and "add harder puzzles"

[grizzled sun]

and how does take mutiple answer make it easier, when all those answer is correct, is more a qol fix so ppl don't need "fix" correct answer

Do u have example for harder puzzle

Fangride said they will take advice onw time irc

.

[glacial gulch]

increase mines #, increase mines size (minesweeper)
make the tower puzzle a 6x6/7x7
operator puzzle with additional arithmetics (power, log although this might not be realistic cuz people might not know)

increase count on shuffle from 8 -> 12

generate more buttons (find the button, although some people will probly kill me for this)

[white merlin]

frankly power and log arent that interesting because you really cant have many numbers to work with before they explode

also it doesnt really make the puzzle harder i think its just more operators

.

also introducing far harder puzzles would be a reason to different normal and long puzzle rooms imo, which is a completely new thing that would need to be discussed

monumenta in the end isnt a puzzle game, and even if puzzle content is great i think you cant expect too much difficulty from it

also be the change you want to see and make a hard puzzle on build

[glacial gulch]

yeah but i cant build so im never gonna be on build

[feral cliff]

build shard access is entirely based on trust

[white merlin]

The application-info post explicitly says you can be interested in Monu tools and apply for that

theres been apps going through without any builds

[glacial gulch]

oh that's even worse 💀

[grizzled sun]

Bro think he can't pass it

[true cave]

am i allowed to make a solver mod

[snow wharf]

so when are we getting fragments from the casino, the obvious next piece of banger content to drop them from

[cobalt dawn]

me after spending 5 hours doing dailies the casino and getting five minutes of playtime in SKR

[glacial gulch]

bro did not scroll up, i just introduced myself as an uncommunicative being, why would i get in

[grizzled sun]

U can juat write something like I want join build shard because I would like to make a room/puzzle that can fit into current skr

[primal stratus]

Are people able to make more remnants

Like build more

[high trout]

Yea

[primal stratus]

I might apply

[high trout]

They can be added like zenith rooms

[primal stratus]

Nice

[high trout]

Skrs just take a lot more effort to make

[primal stratus]

Yeah

[high trout]

Many builders start a skr project but most of them never get finished 😭

[eternal gale]

Or get rejected

[primal stratus]

Why do they get rejected? Not good enough?

[eternal gale]

For bug and not randomised able

I think

[eternal gale]

niamn do u have any puzzle scroll for me ? 😄 ( not buying just need to add more check for button puzzle

[high trout]

I don't think there has been a case where any room would straight up get rejected, they just need more time in the oven

[eternal gale]

I might apply for builder so I can cook the most player unfriendly skr

[high trout]

Hate to break it to you but if you thinking about underwater skr, charging will personally smite you down

[eternal gale]

I won’t dw

Imo water area is not that bad

crondis typing

✍️

[cursive sphinx]

I'll be honest, even as someone who advocates for harder puzzles in niche content, the point you were attempting to make was illogical and poorly contrived at best.

1. Yes, puzzles are generated on the spot. Basically how randomized puzzles work is that they spawn as a "solved" state so that it is guaranteed to be solvable, and then are shuffled/randomized/whatever to produce the starting "state" of the puzzle. By definition, procedural generation of a puzzle is fundamentally harder to solve from base state than a database of solutions, as eventually a wiki can just categlog a database even if its a large count.

2. Multiple solutions to a puzzle existing does not, in any conceivable way, make the puzzle "easier", and having a checking mechanism for multiple solutions is imparative when such things are possible. The irony of your statement about "make towers 6x6 or 7x7" is that, especially when it comes to geometrically based puzzles, the larger you make them, the more likely it becomes that multiple solutions exist.

[glacial gulch]

ok im sorry ill stop making suggestions

[cursive sphinx]

There's really no reason to continuously play victim here, I don't know what your goal of doing so is

[silver lake]

Operator checks everytime you submit if its a right solution or not by redoing all the mathsince a puzzle like it is super likely to have a lot of solutions

[rigid oyster]

I dont think the combat rooms are randomized?

[eternal gale]

idk

[rigid oyster]

Building bugs into a build also sounds really difficult to do

[eternal gale]

he porb made a cursed puzzle

[scarlet laurel]

porb

[snow wharf]

I mean we built spiders for zenith F2 so it wasn’t too bad

[nova mango]

should make this trap harder to get out of

i kind of just

mined to the side

and didnt even need fire res

[dense kindle]

Please

Make me write more

[primal stratus]

I have to apply to build shard

[high trout]

then apply
you don't have to make a long application

[snow wharf]

We’re trying we promise

[naive forge]

Can I make you write more?

[feral cliff]

changelogs have been written

https://tenor.com/view/directing-jk-simmons-fletcher-whiplash-conducting-gif-18304707

[high trout]

why is tm suddenly posting gifs of a bald man

[feral cliff]

whiplash

[white merlin]

This might be worth looking into not now but a few weeks, but i think a trade to get the record lore books from memory shards might be really cool

As you cant ever really guarantee to get a room, and getting that very last book solo would prove to be annoying

Also it would fit the mat quite well I think

[high trout]

players must suffer

[white merlin]

id also bring the idea of a "lore book bestiary" up again but this isnt the place for it so just suggesting some sort trade for the lore books directly for the iron nuggies

and maybe not right now as most long rooms have only been seen a few times

but eventually for the future once it "sort of settles down"

[wicked plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/whiplash-fletcher-angry-mad-walking-gif-1462712456470240543

[snow wharf]

and, how many Qs are there?

[snow wharf]

to be fair this is a very ineffective method

[low jetty]

this is so sad

[feral cliff]

should I search manually

[snow wharf]

uh, copyp aste into document, ctrl F q

[feral cliff]

so true

Nine Qs

and one is in Qwanton's name

[snow wharf]

wait this isnt patron chat

[feral cliff]

oh

oops

[snow wharf]

lol patron chat leaks

[primal stratus]

What’s the theme behind the builds in combat scrolls?

If there even is one

@feral cliff

[remote nebula]

there's a couple different subsets

[low jetty]

^, and there are also advancements tied to each one

[primal stratus]

Do you have to follow a one of the subsets?

And if so, does that mean palette or general theme

[silver lake]

General theme but often Times you will be reusing palettes

[feral cliff]

all the details are on build shard

[silver lake]

You cant just create your own theme

[feral cliff]

I'd encourage you to apply if you want to make rooms

[primal stratus]

Makes sense

Yeah I will later

Are there ever going to be new themes

[silver lake]

Very likely not i think?

[snow wharf]

i mean, there are themes for each r3 biome. why would we not want SKRs for new r3 biomes?

[feral cliff]

me burning out

implementing them

[snow wharf]

someting something enslave an intern

[feral cliff]

cz rooms are enough of an indefinite commitment

[snow wharf]

sorry i mean

encourage

[feral cliff]

yeah sure

go ahead and apply and we'll talk

I don't really want to indefinitely be committed to new skr rooms let alone biomes

[snow wharf]

itll probably be a bit weird to have half the ring devoid of silver knight remnants

[feral cliff]

I can live with weird

[mortal tartan]

i was under the impression that galos was a future r3 biome, at least

was surprised to not see any snowblossom though

[feral cliff]

thats news to me

[mortal tartan]

idk maybe i'm stupid

[snow wharf]

dont we visit galos in the ring around the rose quest

[feral cliff]

yeah, specifically as a place that isn't in the ring I believe

blue air branch is above it

[snow wharf]

yeah thats what i mean

[feral cliff]

yurt

[snow wharf]

we only know of two locations in the ring we havent visited, the mountian area in the middle, and snowblossom.

[mortal tartan]

what about the den

[snow wharf]

idk anything about that

[rigid oyster]

I mean

I figure the hard limit would be however many books fang and co can come up with for the SKs doing their wool hunting

Cant just keep cranking out more lore, that’d eventually write the story into a corner, and its not an autobiography

And there’s only so many wools so u cant just keep adding more silver knights to write about

[ornate light]

Maybe
It’s fang

[feral cliff]

that is definitely not the limit

you have not seen how much he can write

[rigid oyster]

Its not about how much they can write

Its how much they can write about this specific topic with these specific limitations and scope

[feral cliff]

by write I mean

create new story threads

[rigid oyster]

If its a new story thread then it probably shouldnt be in SKR

[feral cliff]

knight specific story thread

regardless I am going to burn out on rooms before he hits his limit I’d think

[rigid oyster]

It has to be a knight specific story thread about hunting a wool

[feral cliff]

it has to be about an SK

[rigid oyster]

We are already at 8

[feral cliff]

I don’t think it necessarily would need to be hunting a wool

although it does make sense as the prominent topic

[rigid oyster]

Every single one in skr so far has been

[feral cliff]

I cant see tgat emoji its too small on my screen

[rigid oyster]

Its a shrug emote

[feral cliff]

is it supposed to be a purple and white smudge

oh thanks

insert a whiplash gif here

[rigid oyster]

We can fit like 19 of them I guess before we run out of wool hunting

[feral cliff]

yeah so that wouldn’t be the limiting factor

thank you ian

[worthy pivot]

there you go Chargonious Ultraviolet

[feral cliff]

much appreciated

[ornate light]

You can just write about it having a nice lil side quest and has some thoughts

[worthy pivot]

thank you for releasing an update that fills my sirius maras and makes pdia affordable 🙏

[feral cliff]

lol he doesn’t know

[rigid oyster]

Its still more pdias than before

Even if its not a full barrel shift like before, half a barrel shift is still good too

[worthy pivot]

what do you mean

[feral cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/directing-jk-simmons-fletcher-whiplash-conducting-gif-18304707

[eternal gale]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-batman-the-joker-why-so-serious-gif-14263650074740919861

[slender mortar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/350338158463942659/1345621614137704470/moushley_dance.gif

[remote nebula]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/754490987069308959/1341903874491027526/wegg.gif

[feral cliff]

one of these days all feedback will be communicated with whiplash gifs

[mortal tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/not-quite-my-sigma-sigma-whiplash-cookie-gif-3752795544444960235

[nova mango]

@feral cliff by how much % were portal rates nerfed

[feral cliff]

I hit them pretty hard maybe 30ish 35%

[nova mango]

what the sigma

[remote nebula]

had it coming

[feral cliff]

to be fair I had them tuned around like 5-6 min runs but was informed of my error

[nova mango]

i wanted to overtake emily beforeportal gets killed

[feral cliff]

All im changing about portal is skr drops

[nova mango]

yea .......

[feral cliff]

and I’m probably not going to need to change the slop rate again

[nova mango]

by killed i mean prople not wanting to play it

[primal stratus]

1 minute portal runs be like:

[nova salmon]

it's not like I am getting scrolls from portal runs even when the chances were higher...

[feral cliff]

you;d be surprised how many were dropping

[dapper ether]

still feels like there can be more ngl

did the rare prices got nerfed?

[feral cliff]

25 minutes post update bro

yes

16m frags instead of 24

[rigid oyster]

U could at least read the changelog before submitting feedback

[eternal gale]

Fr fr

[eternal gale]

Can we have a pity for non weekly poi grind

For example 6 -9 unique poi

[rigid oyster]

Not getting a scroll in 6-9 pois isnt even approaching unlucky territory much less pity

We also have scroll fragment drops now as a soft pity

[eternal gale]

I’ve done

20 coven

0 scroll

[mortal tartan]

since update?

[rigid oyster]

i would consider 20 coven to be mildly unlucky at best

[dapper ether]

even if I resume playing monumenta I still feel like doing 2 biome's worth of poi for that much scroll is a good trade

[eternal gale]

B4

💀

Idk if the chance is still fucked up tho

[dapper ether]

unsure about trying to get people to play sequence

isn't that just like

poi2

[eternal gale]

Putting individual in the copypasta is prob right

[rigid oyster]

Sequence is split into 3, u can take breaks

[dapper ether]

anyways go read charms feedback posts

[scarlet laurel]

hes back

[spice granite]

You can amp coven?

[feral cliff]

no that is a joke

[orchid briar]

yes but that is a spoiler

[gleaming bloom]

#change-logs message
"A name's room"

[grizzled sun]

i have question, for fishing, does abyssal cache have higher chance then greater, or all the same

[glad oak]

its the same

[grizzled sun]

i see

[old flicker]

[glacial ivy]

No words for this update

[remote nebula]

is that a good no words or a bad no words

[glacial ivy]

Actually ill say some words

Nerfing drops bc 10 or less people can do a content faster than the average player is just

😂

[cursive sphinx]

You looked at that whole list of changes and the only thing you could pluck out of it was non-daily portal drop rates being mildly nerfed

[glacial ivy]

“Mildly”

[wary ivy]

Womp womp

[nova mango]

you cannot call the nerf "mild" when the person who made it says it was a hard nerf

@feral cliff does fishing difficulty change chances or is it like delve points

i would assume it doesnt change anything

[wary ivy]

.

[glacial ivy]

Nice rolling eyes just admit youre wrong its ok

[mortal tartan]

monumenta players when they are required to actually play monumenta

[silver lake]

That isnt even a lot

[glacial ivy]

? XD

[glacial ivy]

Only 17 more runs! If you count 1/50 as the old chance

[snow wharf]

There is a design goal here of making you play your daily content to get scrolls.
If you can just grind portal to get them at a better rate then what’s the point ?

[snow wharf]

Maybe they don’t want you to play 68 portals in a row to get one?

Like, you can but it’s not the goal here

[glacial ivy]

Yeah instead I'll play 1 Portal everyday just to HOPEFULLY get 1 Scroll after 20 days.

:3

[snow wharf]

Yes portal is the only daily content

[wary ivy]

Obviously smh

[snow wharf]

And there’s also a “hunting” for scrolls happening RN that isn’t really the intent either

[glacial ivy]

XD

Top tier ragebait

Good on you

[snow wharf]

It’s a side/bonus content, not the main reason to play

[silver lake]

if you're going to complain might as well just remoev drops from non daily

that was the intent at some point

[mortal tartan]

🤫

don't get triggered...

[glacial ivy]

Not so replayable is it now

🤭

[silver lake]

emphasis on overworld I think

[snow wharf]

Replay ability doesn’t have to be infinite

You can’t grind a dungeon

Are dungeons not replayable?

[glacial ivy]

Except a dungeon is not 5 minutes

😭

[rigid oyster]

that was what i said

[glacial ivy]

Why has the goal been to demotivate players from grinding the content the agenda since Hexfall

[wary ivy]

because this isn't grind content?

[glacial ivy]

Grinding for keys / however you want to phrase it

[rigid oyster]

you aren't supposed to grind for keys

you didn't have keys before either

[glacial ivy]

Why not exactly?

[wary ivy]

because that's the intention??

you're asking why are there bosses in hexfall

[glacial ivy]

I doubt monumenta is more "harmed" with players grinding for keys when it is dropping in playercount rapidly

[rigid oyster]

the design, was to encourage players to do a variety of content that is normally being ignored

[glacial ivy]

Id take 20 more active players than them getting 1 too many keys. But oh well

[old flicker]

this guy thinks 20 players want to grind portal all day instead of many different content

[glacial ivy]

Also wonder how my opinion translates to "I don't want to play monumenta" When clearly it says the opposite

[rigid oyster]

i have no idea what you mean by "dropping in playercount rapidly" either

[glacial ivy]

Never said that?

[nova mango]

nerfing rates is not gonna do that at all

[old flicker]

#1345340298527637566 message

[nova mango]

also isnt doing dailies "grinding"?

[glacial ivy]

How does that even mean that I want 20 ppl to grind portal?

[old flicker]

that 20 people want to grind portal

[glacial ivy]

I never said that ?

If the endgame player base wanted to farm out the content faster than the average player why should they get "punished"?

[nova mango]

"id" meaning "i would"

2nd point

[glacial ivy]

That is my only question here

[rigid oyster]

isn't gonna do what

[nova mango]

stop people grinding keys

[rigid oyster]

its not supposed to

[glacial ivy]

Also don't get how it is balanced around a small group instead of the whole community

[rigid oyster]

anyone crazy enough to do that is free to do so

[old flicker]

i think its clear that tm doesn't want yall grinding keys primarily trough portal

[rigid oyster]

but if you do things you arent supposed to, the devs don't also owe you anything

[cursive sphinx]

Carnish you are just straight up trolling and baiting at this point. I am politely begging you - please, go spend the limited amount of time you are allotted on this planet and do literally anything else that isn't sitting in this discord and attempting to be the most insufferable person in the conversation

[nova mango]

yea and charging was against that so im surprised it was nerfed this heavily

[snow wharf]

nooo crondis you're falling for the bait...

[glacial ivy]

Yeah voicing my opinion is just trolling and baiting always. Just because I had past mtues I cannot have an opinion now?

[snow wharf]

Its the way you present it.

[nova mango]

dont really see where the trolling is happening

[glacial ivy]

If I am reading this correctly this is a FEEDBACK channel?

I also find it funny how if I ever disagree with a balance change/developers opinion it is only bait and should be disregarded

[nova mango]

also its very interesting how many people just like to say you are wrong then stop responding

[rigid oyster]

this is blatant bait too but i'm going to fall for it anyway

[mortal tartan]

yes

[deft spear]

||endgame player should be punished for farming things faster because they're the endgame player. They already have practically anything and any further farming just means dumping excess amounts of currency and items into the market||

[rigid oyster]

it's because talking to u is very exhausting and not very enjoyable when u keep making leading statements like that

[nova mango]

that is not bait it just happens a lot

[glacial ivy]

I genuinely do not understand why specifically my opinion is considered trolling when it is clearly not.

[snow wharf]

I just told you why

[nova mango]

when it comes to carnish i can see why you wouldnt want to respond but hes not the only person taht this happens to

[snow wharf]

But its okay, part of it is you ignore what everyone else is saying.

[glacial ivy]

I try to make a respectful arguement only to have my opinion disregarded, get messages like this and then I am the one considered trolling.

[old flicker]

wasting time trying to change the mind of someone who is not willing to change their mind with arguments present is not a thing many people seek to spend their time on

Several people are typing...

[timber fog]

I think the clear solution to all of this is to make scrolls buyable for 24 har from the npc so i can grind solely skr

[nova mango]

yea but that arguments falls off when you are arguing against someone that can have their minds changed if you just, tried convincing them?

[timber fog]

Thanks for listening to my selfish suggestion

[nova mango]

saying you are wrong is not trying to convince anyone at all

[remote nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/troy-community-room-fire-pizza-gif-5612111

[tawdry remnant]

Portal was nerfed to bring it more in line with other sources of scrolls.

[mortal tartan]

"respectful"

[glacial ivy]

I am not even going to say anything else, I put my opinion out there whether people think I am trolling/baiting or actually trying to have a conversation is for them to decide, however they want to interpret it.

[nova mango]

it was nerfed heavily because of a small group of people, something that charging was against when i talked to him in dms

[old flicker]

i have 0 reason to believe carnish is gonna change his mind, as such i do not consider my time spent trying to convince him worth it

[silver lake]

it was nerfed heavily because even lfg hits super low times

[nova mango]

#1345340298527637566 message

[silver lake]

most people were hitting well under charging's xpectations of portal

which is why it got nerfed

its not just a small group

[old flicker]

same goes for other categoric people

[tawdry remnant]

Small group or not, being able to farm scrolls at such a quick rate is not something that was intended.

[nova mango]

yea that is a reason to nerf, not to do a "hard" nerf

[nova mango]

refer to the 2nd part of my message

[silver lake]

30% is not a hard nerf when the old value felt already too common lol

[tawdry remnant]

Charging changing his mind after internal discussion isn't relevant

[old flicker]

i think the nerf did its job of nerfing the rates enough since now we have certain people complaining about them

[nova mango]

then why would charging call it a hard nerf?

[silver lake]

idk?

he doesnt know a lot about portal sir

[old flicker]

semantics

[rigid oyster]

isnt the issue in this case that portal is being cleared too quickly then rather than that scrolls drop too frequently

[silver lake]

portal being cleared quickly is fun

[old flicker]

its much easier to change the rates then portal clearing speed

[silver lake]

but when you add a really good money maker, supposedly passive to it, it turns out a lot worse in the long run

[nova mango]

the problem appeared at the same time as scrolls so no it isnt because of the strike being cleared too quickly

[timber fog]

Are the scroll rates ever gonna become public

[glacial ivy]

This is what I am also curious of

[timber fog]

I'd like to know what are the chances of content x relative to content y

[tawdry remnant]

Rates are almost never released for anything

[wary ivy]

Likely never

Because then you'll just find the most efficient content and grind that instead lol

[timber fog]

I mean that will already happen anyways

But that'll slow down the process

Be it a good or bad thing

[thorny wharf]

I think just looking any other RNG chance in the game it'll be public eventually

[remote nebula]

charging will randomize the rates every week
they're all low enough that nobody will ever be able to normalize the rates on brute force alone

[worthy pivot]

🎣 🪨

[remote nebula]

kekeh

[thorny wharf]

Hoard key drop rate, casino jackpot, what else

[worthy pivot]

every scroll drop is personalized

[wary ivy]

Hence why I'm in favour of removing all non-daily drops and buffing the time limited ones

[silver lake]

i'm not keen on daily balancing though

[remote nebula]

you'd have to have the entire server run 2 minute portals for 8 hours for 1 full straight week to get close i think

[thorny wharf]

Plus if it's not publicized you could bet that people would use their AP statistics class knowledge to hone down the rates anyways

[timber fog]

I think having it on non daily is healthier whether you like it or not

[silver lake]

part of why hexfall was a lot less fun was the fact you get nothing from doing it more than once a week

[remote nebula]

and the fact it's hexfall, but that's besides the point

[timber fog]

Plus the grinders have something to do

[snow wharf]

I mean, unless you lootrun there is enough content in the game to be impossible to do it all every week

or very hard

[worthy pivot]

you could speedrun literally every daily/weekly opportunity and it wouldn't be that difficult

[timber fog]

Personally, I dont like part of the content available, mostly because its not r3, so I'd just rather grind the new things that come out. And I think people don't enjoy dungeons past a certain point. They're fun for the first few times then get stale. I like skr quite a bit because it's small content and I'm not softlocked to doing it once a week

[nova mango]

if you want to play every single dungeon every week sure ig?

i dont know anyone who does all dungeons every week without lootrunning except er and darknee who quit

[glacial ivy]

What if we don't want to rely on only RNG to do a specific piece of content

[snow wharf]

i mean, thats what SKRs are

if you do not like that you do not have to participate

[glacial ivy]

What if I want to play the content? Hello?

And don't want to essentially miss out on it just because I am unlucky

[mortal tartan]

they were explicitly and repeatedly stated to be something you do not grind and play in the background

[harsh hill]

SKR isn't like other content, it's passive

[mortal tartan]

you are begging the developers to change it to be something that it is fundamentally not meant to be and then acting shocked and victimizing yourself when told no

[harsh hill]

Not something you grind for but rather every once in a while you get a key for it

[glacial ivy]

Victimizing myself?

Elaborate

[harsh hill]

yo chat this thread is not for fighting

[glacial ivy]

Crondis straight up just started insulting me when I am trying to have a conversation? Imagine if I did the same

[harsh hill]

Well crondis says sorry can we move on

[glacial ivy]

I have no idea what I have to say or how I have to say it to make it not bait

Because clearly noone wants to hear the opinion out if they just consider it bait

[harsh hill]

I do think u understood skr all wrong

[wary ivy]

Then don't play it lol

It's really that simple

[snow wharf]

Try being a bit less aggressive.

[scenic ocean]

I open the thread.
Want to see feedback and thoughts about change
See C vs C

[snow wharf]

You sling insults in the middle of your opinions. This makes it really hard to listen to you.

[scenic ocean]

Can anyone link me upward a bit for the feedbacks

[wary ivy]

If someone doesn't like bosses they won't do skt/hexfall/strikes, if you don't like passively gaining extra things to do over time, then don't bother with it?

[dense pendant]

maybe like here harry

[snow wharf]

I think he doesnt like the ungrindability of SKRs. Which is part of their design.

[scenic ocean]

Thanks !

[wary ivy]

And some people don't like the coordinated boss parts of raids. Which is part of their design. Different strokes for different folks, not sure why that's hard for carnish to understand

[worthy pivot]

i don't think is particularly helpful

thread has kinda devolved for little reason

[glacial ivy]

I don't understand why being more coordinated and optimized is "punishable" in the sense that the drop rates are mainly getting nerfed/ were nerfed because of that

I don't think you understand my arguement

[worthy pivot]

i'm going to trust charging that the portal nerfs were because it was disproportionately good of a scroll source and not that it was some deliberate target against portal grinders as individuals

[silver lake]

i run portal and i know the nerfs are fine and still make it decent to run

[nova mango]

now tell that to someone who went 300 runs for 3 scrolls before nerfs......

[glacial ivy]

...

[silver lake]

thats just a skill issue

[worthy pivot]

a bit mean actually

[lavish marsh]

where have i head this before "just a skill issue"

reminds me of a release

which one could have it been...

[dense pendant]

i think this is not conducive to civil discussion

[glacial ivy]

And also. There was a period of time where you had daily scroll rates for non daily as like a bug

In the whole month worth of dailies of portal

I got 0 keys.

[silver lake]

don't know what to tell you other than the fact you're unlucky dude

czad is dropping scrolls left and right

[glacial ivy]

That is

Just fake info..

[nova mango]

yesterday i did like 60 for 0 scrolls

[harsh hill]

It's not meant to be content grinded for chat

[nova mango]

and was pretty dry a day before that

[harsh hill]

Plus the chances being lower is better than being higher

[timber fog]

Bug abuser pls ban

[wary ivy]

Like this is just so non-sensical to me. It's like playing R3 fishing for money and complaining that someone running zenith got more money than you, like yeah, the intention isn't for you to get tons of scrolls from continued grinding. I've got more scrolls than that just from doing my pois in a week

[glacial ivy]

There are people with not even 50 total portals I think you underestimate how much we grind for the already too little result.....

[nova mango]

" I've got more scrolls than that just from doing my pois in a week" that just shows how meh portal was

[deft spear]

take the hint then. it's not meant to be grinded

[wary ivy]

Yes?? Exactly?? The rates are lower for grinding??

[deft spear]

they should just remove the drops from non-daily/weekly stuff

[nova mango]

ok sir ill continue grinding dailys for it

[glacial ivy]

1 whole scroll from all Pois both weeks.

Lots of scrolls indeed

[nova mango]

i dont think anyone is arguing that they are not lower for grinding the same content

[wary ivy]

You understand it but are still forcing it and then complaining that it isn't as successful

So you're just complaining to complain?

[timber fog]

I feel like the opinions are one sided both ways from every single contributor towards this conversation

IMO main source should be dailies obviously, but you shouldnt be locked out of scroll drops just because you ran out of dailies

[worthy pivot]

i'm going to be entirely honest I think that being frustrated with bad RNG isn't really complaining to complain

[timber fog]

Balancing non dailies is just a challenge as a result of following this path

[nova mango]

i am complaining because it was nerfed heavily even tho it wasnt nearly as succesful

[glacial ivy]

No I am complaining because of
A) My opinion apperently is only bait to some people and it is free to insult it and there has been nothing done about that for a good amount of time now
B)"Complaining" about scroll rates because I feel like the nerf is not justified enough, mainly because noone is grinding portal a lot besides a small group of players like us, and the scroll rates already felt kind of terrible for the amount of work that you had to put in

Something is bad and then they make it worse

Don't see the logic

[wary ivy]

The dev's data clearly thought it was too successful 🤷

[orchid plank]

I think the root of the argument is that locking new content behind RNG and then making it difficult to grind for the small % that are actually motivated enough to grind is stupid

[glacial ivy]

This

[orchid plank]

Data driven balance decisions arent always correct tho

[worthy pivot]

the content is fine it's just in the unfortunate spot of being released first after the unfreeze

[low jetty]

Couple of things to note here:

• The rates were possibly lower on the first week depending on when you did it.
• This is a pretty small sample size week-wise, Week 1 I got absolutely nothing from my weeklies, Week 2 I got 3 scrolls. Some weeks will be awful, some will not.

I don’t really grind Portal at all anymore besides dailies, so whatever opinion I throw into that ring won’t be the most valid one. I think this week wanted to put more of an emphasis on dailies having a higher chance though.

[glacial ivy]

Also please tell me what I exactly did to get dogged on by a lead? Who is the rude one here exactly...

[wicked bronze]

Im not gonna bother doing more than poking into this discussion but the core flaw with every argument against the nerf seems to be the refusal to accept that regardless of what you specifically want, it isnt intended to be content you can grind.

[ornate light]

I don’t think the rates are awful in means
It’s awful in variance

[glacial ivy]

Did it factor in the absurd and probably unhealthy amount of hours of play tho...

[timber fog]

Intended or not it'll happen as long as you have a community dedicated to grinding the game

[ornate light]

Variance is a harder estimator with sampled data

[orchid plank]

This isnt talked enough about btw, releasing content that has an RNG related form of participation perhaps wasnt the best move after the content drought, but I do understand the position that monu devs/builders are in

[primal stratus]

You have good points but just like read your first couple messages. They clearly have charged underlying tones in them that do that.

[timber fog]

I think portal nerfs were a bit too much numbers-wise, but I havent tried new droprates yet

[worthy pivot]

I think everyone kinda knows but SKR had progressed quickly after being in development purgatory for the better part of 4 years @ there was a push to get completed content out ASAP

[orchid briar]

portal rates were brought more in line with the rest of content that drops scrolls, its just the line is one scroll per century

and that is just intended

[wary ivy]

But the issue with this argument is that the drops are meant to be RNG, and predominantly obtained from non-grinding sources. If people want to grind for it, they still can, but with much lower rates (because that's not the intention). As always if you want to just play the content repeatedly, the market exists. This is content for more casual players and not grinders, not sure what else to add

[primal stratus]

This is correct, but they also have said that monumenta was never meant to be played like this which is why it’s how it is now

[glacial ivy]

I can accept that people view it as that but it was not my intention. It was my intention however to respond a little bit more rude to the messages that clearly were sent to "poke" or "bait" me.

[primal stratus]

They basically use that to justify making it unrewarding to replay content

[primal stratus]

Comes off that way to most people, just something to work on maybe 🤷

[soft mist]

It was even designed for region 2 at one point, so i was surprised to see that it actually relased after all these years!

[wary ivy]

Whose choice was it to do that though?

[glacial ivy]

I don't think you understand.....

[primal stratus]

That’s irrelevant

[glacial ivy]

Like

[orchid plank]

Yeah thats a stupid take, sorry but saying that in response to someone putting effort into playing the game is a backwards response

“Grinding rewards is futile so its your fault for doing it in the first place”

[wicked bronze]

Nah im with TK on this one

You push the boulder then get mad when it doesnt reach the top of the hill??

[glacial ivy]

Never said that.

[wicked bronze]

When the whole idea is that it wont

[glacial ivy]

Please look at the conversation

[lavish marsh]

playing monumenta is pushing the boulder 😆

[nova mango]

woah. thats a bit negative dont you think

[glacial ivy]

It is about rates being "too good" when you had to put in a shit ton of work just to get a few keys to play the new content..

[orchid plank]

the fact that you’re likening trying to get more scrolls to experience new content in a video game to pushing a boulder up a hill says a lot

[wicked bronze]

I have for a while
I was just agreeing with TK

[wicked bronze]

No, im likening grinding content you arent intended to grind to pushing the boulder

[glacial ivy]

Then you would understand his point and message just make no sense, and clearly has a rude tone to it..

[lavish marsh]

Since grinding is heavily discouraged in this piece of content its reverse sisyphus

Its mythological.

[glacial ivy]

And before you say anything

[primal stratus]

Kit is kinda right here to be honest

[glacial ivy]

I am talking about this point only for that message

[nova mango]

does this imply you are not supposed to play the game past doing dailys?

[primal stratus]

Trying to force the grind of something that was meant to be ungrindable you really should not be expecting to get the things

[glacial ivy]

I feel like playing the game more should reward you instead of the same as if you played less but whatever

[primal stratus]

Yes

[mortal tartan]

you're not intended to be rewarded with SKRs for it, no

[primal stratus]

That’s exactly what they want

That’s how this was designed

[glacial ivy]

But what if you want to play the new content?

[orchid plank]

Monu should release a time limit prohibiting you to play past a certain time, its too destructive for the game

[lavish marsh]

we need to limit theese scoundrels they want to play too much AND get rewarded! Take away their internet access, at once!

[glacial ivy]

Either drop 30 something har on a scroll, or hope that you drop one / week

[orchid plank]

when carnish spends 10 hours doing portal hes destroying the economy and we cant fix it

boohoo

[vapid urchin]

That was not the intention...

[deft spear]

wow this conversation truly turned into a clown fiesta

[wicked bronze]

No, it doesnt imply anything. Its stating the fact that literal devs have said- grinding content nonstop for skr scrolls isnt something you should do.
Play content as much as you want, but dont grind something you arent supposed to grind then get mad when it doesnt work out

[low jetty]

Okay, clearly this conversation is going WAY off topic of the forum topic.

[primal stratus]

Well that’s an inherent issue with this content

[lament bane]

🐖

[primal stratus]

The issue is this content was released now

[timber fog]

🐮

[orchid plank]

^^

[primal stratus]

And not alongside a major content release

And people want to play it, and they can’t

[vapid urchin]

That's very fair

[wicked bronze]

Yeah i dont mean to be rude but there’s no other way to say this.
I have better things to do then keep saying the same thing over and over, im out.

[charred imp]

it's inherently a different type of content release than most others

[mortal tartan]

yeah i agree the rates should have been bumped up for the first couple weeks but when i found out they weren't i got over it pretty quickly instead of writing essays about it

[timber fog]

I feel like the whole thing was too hyped up for a bite sized rare content, and now you have people complaining you shouldnt be able to grind it at all and people complaining that the keys should be more common

[primal stratus]

I don’t think the rates are actually bad, I’m okay with them being rare and this recent update with buffing dailies I really liked. It just sucks that I can’t actually play the content

[eternal gale]

the rate is so fine rn imo

:urchin:

[glad oak]

I think the announcement was a bit poorly worded yeah

it is meant to be more of a feature than a traditional content release though

[timber fog]

The rates seem fine for everything besides poi for me

Because ive gotten like 50 pinatas no scroll

[primal stratus]

I really wanted to stream me doing these for hour or something on release, I grinded for like 10 hours a day before update and got 1 random drop scroll. It was very disappointing

[nova mango]

the rates would be fine if there was pretty much anything else to play that wasnt already grinded to boredom

[ornate light]

The disparity in gameplay hours between players are insane
If the rates for repeatable plays are high then those who run repeatedly would earn way way more than those who only play 5 hours a week
Limiting to daily is just one way of that and I think other ways of limiting this would just be similarly disappointing

[glacial ivy]

Another issue I have is that it was hyped up with a trailer and everything, labeled as "replayable" (kinda misleading for a content thats locked behind rng)

[snow wharf]

^ This is why people do not like talking to you carnish.

That message right there.

[nova mango]

❓

[orchid plank]

whats wrong w that message

[eternal gale]

carnish is not right this time

[orchid plank]

lol

[snow wharf]

We have told yo, several times, what replayable means in the context of SKRs.

[glacial ivy]

What did I say?

[nova mango]

i like talking to carnihs

[snow wharf]

You just said the same argument for the 3rd or so time.

[nova mango]

and after today i dont like talking to you

[lavish marsh]

we molded him to be like this gng

[charred imp]

the weekend timing is also something where it's needed regardless of it being a standard release to handle the operational work that can come with a new technical release

[lament bane]

I hate talking to varnish

[orchid plank]

“We dont like you cause of your opinion” 🗿🗿

[glacial ivy]

Strikes are replayable, I doubt this is the same level of replayable

[charred imp]

back to topic folks

[glacial ivy]

I only said that it is pretty misleading?

[snow wharf]

Exactly! that's what we've been saying. We dont really want to go in circles and answer this point over and over.

[timber fog]

I think its not fair to compare people who play for 1h a day vs people who play for 4+ hours a day when it comes to money making

[snow wharf]

But if you dont hear that when people say it they are not going to try to say it to you in the future.

[charred imp]

there are tiers to replayable, this is also a replayable content, it's just not one you can re-enter on a whim given enough cash

[primal stratus]

Can agree

[glacial ivy]

So sad that I gotta go will continue to back track to this convol.

In approx 2hrs

[worthy pivot]

technically you can enter it with enough cash 🤓
you just will be living in a box by the week's end after buying keys from lthers

[primal stratus]

It was just a bit disappointing

[timber fog]

Skr is 200% replayable zawg

[charred imp]

ah, yea, i don't count market i suppose

[orchid plank]

during beta testing im guessing the testers were just given access to an SKR and the loot locked behind it, did they actually experience the grind for scrolls

[charred imp]

but yes, you can go broke buying keys 😛

[snow wharf]

How would you beta test this content?

[primal stratus]

Bro what are you on about

[orchid plank]

throwing me under the bus fr

[lavish marsh]

level 2 ragebait

[primal stratus]

LOL

[ornate light]

Would like a dev to respond in case unintentional leak

[orchid plank]

what im saying is the rates are tied into experiencing this content, were the rates actually tested beforehand to see if they were suitable

[burnt pulsar]

Rates were not tested by non-devs

Mostly because they were far from finalized

[orchid plank]

thank you 👍

[worthy pivot]

(They kinda still are far from finalized)

[low jetty]

I feel like there’s no realistic way we could test the feel for drop rates with such a small sample size of people, anyways. Hence why we got a system set up where we’d be able to track them from Day 1 onwards, so we can improve on them.

[primal stratus]

I’m glad you guys buffed some of them

[worthy pivot]

from me own experience I have basically only been bombarded by scrolls and if you used my data things would look fucked

[orchid plank]

Understandable yeah, im not arguing that it was untested, I was curious as to what monu’s approach was for this content when testing it

[low jetty]

IMO keeping them lower was also a better call (even if it did harm release a bit admittedly) because us saying something got nerfed feels a LOT worse than if we said it got buffed. Hence the whole Portal conversation that went on here.

[snow wharf]

There realistically isnt a way to test if rates feel good quickly, and TM doesnt have the time to do a deep rate test for it.

[low jetty]

I’m sure some tweaks will still be done. I trust in those who have been looking into the drop rates.

[charred imp]

the main tech to test thoroughly was the instances themselves

[low jetty]

They’ve looked into it pretty extensively

[charred imp]

due to the wide range of mech and plugin tech to support and run it

[ornate light]

What if instead of limiting the skrs you can play
We limit the rewards from caches you buy in the same week
So people get to at least play it all they want

[primal stratus]

Yeah charging said that they were nerfed for release

[orchid briar]

It is all as simple as unfortunate timing of skr being first piece of content after a very long drought and it not being intended to be grindable

[snow wharf]

Charging has been very good at listening to feedback, I DMed him about fishing before this update and I think that directly lead to fishing being added and bounties being standardized.

[orchid plank]

thats what was suggested before, there are some practical problems to that though

[ornate light]

+2 frag every buy

[primal stratus]

Charging is awesome

[worthy pivot]

stockpile mats for weekly...

[orchid briar]

People just want to play new content but they cant reasonably play a lot which is well, intentional so problem is not even skr rates themselves

[worthy pivot]

given more weeks people will inevitably get luckier and the rates will standardize over longer periods of time

[ornate light]

Yeah for nothing cuz everyone is able to get 1 at least anyways

[orchid briar]

Its just lack of other new content

[primal stratus]

Prolly this

Question about numbers

Were they tracking the number of clears of each content vs the scrolls dropped?

Or just the scrolls dropped from each content

[ornate light]

They have rate codes by themselves so maybe not
It would just approach the truth

[primal stratus]

Because I think data is biased and incorrect

If it doesn’t include clear count

[ornate light]

data will always be biased and will always converge to the truth

[glad oak]

no which is obviously a decent flaw but also over time it does just approach the average

[primal stratus]

Well it kinda has to include clear count…

[ornate light]

by central limit theorem

[glad oak]

I think its more so about seeing what players are doing the most for it

[low jetty]

I will say, as a player who hasn’t really played much content besides specific dungeons/PoIs in a while for the most part, it is kind of nice being able to play other content due to having a chance to get scrolls from them. I feel like I actually have a reason to branch out and do, say, Godspore. That’s honestly what I’ve enjoyed a lot here, personally, but I know a lot of people might not fall into the same boat as me.

[orchid briar]

Id expect portal rates to be about 5 times lower than mr rates

[worthy pivot]

the fishing meta is here

[snow wharf]

yeah, its actually quite nice that godspore LFGs are filling

I hope people enjoy SKRs enough to keep playing everything.

[primal stratus]

Makes sense

[snow wharf]

Also, i think the "grinding" part was supposed to be gallery, but gallery broke early on which i think affected carnish and the portalers (band name) opinion.

If gallery was up i think it would be the grind content for SKRs.

[orchid briar]

Dont think there was supposed to be grinding part tbh

[primal stratus]

I think you guys should make sure to account for clear counts in the future 👍

[ornate light]

Yeah this
But I am a low hour player too
Find myself always have a reason to join a lfg instead of just “I have all the items I want from it there’s no reason to”

[worthy pivot]

@silver lake the azonious would you like me to test gallery today

[snow wharf]

thats why its in airquotes. gallery has no daily/weekly, so it likely has slightly higher rates to do than other content.

[nova mango]

that doesnt really seem like good data if you consider noone has drop chances and most are just grinding whatever content they enjoy instead of what has rates that need a nerf

[orchid briar]

Either that or there was supposed to be weekly wave guarantee for one scroll

[primal stratus]

Yeah but they are correct by central limit theorem so

[snow wharf]

This would be quite nice but possibly too powerful.

Unless its gallery as a whole and not once per map.

[orchid briar]

Gallery as a whole maybe

Per map would get ridiculous when we get a new map in 2027

[snow wharf]

I am curious as to charging's goal with gallery dropping SKRs after this patch. Since it seems like we enjoy dailies giving the benefits, but gallery has no daily/weekly. Is there going to be a "weekly" gallery bonus or something? a bit odd.

[glad oak]

It is not great data but it also isn't used as if it was great data

I think the most charging has gotten out of it has been

• that stuff works in general
• the total scroll count
• one time it alerted him that portal rates were way too high for a few hours because of a mistake

it can give broad trends that you can then investigate in other ways

like how he was unaware that you can run a portal every two seconds

[snow wharf]

^ we did tell him in builder that portal can be done in 2 minutes to be fair

[nova mango]

erm! i alerted him manually about portal rates!!!

[low jetty]

this. I couldn't imagine him not having any statistics and trying to balance it by feel/the community

[worthy pivot]

buff fishing to drop 4 scrolls per comp

[snow wharf]

actually make fishing just drop SKR rares directly

[low jetty]

fishing skr scroll type when

[worthy pivot]

Do it

[primal stratus]

Not an SKR thing but does fishing actually drop a pdia per day yet

[worthy pivot]

No :(

[primal stratus]

Idk why they’ve made it so useless 😭

[worthy pivot]

I have been bothering people to improve Fishing though

[primal stratus]

Could be cool and give good rewards but everything from it is just awful

[ornate light]

Well they are not useless now

[primal stratus]

The pots, rares are okay, rewards in general are just not good compared to other dailies

[worthy pivot]

It's because of future difficulty tiers

[dense pendant]

fishing combat itself is also kinda ehhhhh to me

[primal stratus]

Oh

[dense pendant]

like the arena is always kinda circle

[worthy pivot]

the shitty river room is an oval actually

[dense pendant]

i approve of the star point arena which has like stone pillars and the wolfswood one with a cool river

[ornate light]

Definitely hate to see combat squares or circles

[snow wharf]

the star point arena is so bad

mobs get stuck all the time

[dense pendant]

well the river is a bit shit but the idea at least is there

[primal stratus]

I become dev and make fishing cool

[snow wharf]

they sometimes just.. walk away from you and go into the corner

it needs barrier wall

[thorny wharf]

We probably need to disable or redo the mob spawn locations on the star point arena

[ornate light]

Fishing feedback
Real

[worthy pivot]

bulldoze the structure in the center

the design of the sp arena makes it so mobs always get stuck both on water and land

[snow wharf]

SKR in "SKR feedback thread" stands for SFishing KFeedback RThread

[worthy pivot]

Fishing is awesome

[primal stratus]

[worthy pivot]

It'll be profit one day

(It's actually kinda stacked for getting scrolls ATM for the effort to reward ratio)

((I would recommend everyone to get their five caches))

[snow wharf]

yes go fish everyone if we all do it maybe devs will notice it

[worthy pivot]

SSSHHHHHH

[naive forge]

Could probably be fixed with just a floor of waterlogged barriers to make the water shallower

[worthy pivot]

🤫

[snow wharf]

it also needs an outer wall.

mobs have run into corners taergeting who knows what

[mortal tartan]

has anyone tried fishing in skr yet

if you try to fish in galos it should just kill you i think

[snow wharf]

fishing in galos just gives "fish corpse" items

[primal stratus]

Spoiler

[snow wharf]

no sorry that was a suggestion

[slender garden]

An innocent fishing thread with no drama. Love to see these every once in a while. 😊

[white merlin]

close enough, welcome back The Black Mist (Potion)

[worn sun]

just need a submarine to swim along with the fishes

[rigid oyster]

Fish arent real

[wary ivy]

I don't feel so good

[feral cliff]

it was too high to begin with mate

I think I’ve been relatively vocal that I want the primary source to be dailies/weeklies

the prior portal rate was at odds with that

[feral cliff]

yes- but immediately after I looked at the logs, and saw one dropping every 3-5 minutes for the hour immediately after restart, confirming what you said

[feral cliff]

well, that’s what dailies are for- the larger community / the average joe

[feral cliff]

I want to clarify here- I don’t want to balance general drops around a niche top group of portal runners for non-daily. But fundamentally I was wrong about just how fast casual-adjacent players can get portal runs, not just the top 10 players.

and I needed to correct that error- otherwise portal would be wayyyyyy better than counterparts

[orchid briar]

Portal is lootrun sim the strike

[feral cliff]

I’m going to be traveling to vancouver today but I’ll try to read the remainder of what I missed- if I miss someones feedback message feel free to ping me

[glacial ivy]

How fast is the average casual player run

[feral cliff]

From what I understand like 2-5 minutes on a good day

[charred imp]

problem with the idea of "average casual player run" is that it's quite hard to get a group without someone trying to run light speed

[rigid oyster]

I dont think casual portal runs exist anymore

[charred imp]

but when we do guild runs, it's probably 5-7 minutes or so with unoptimal gear/everyone just hanging out

but yea, if you do any form of lfg, the chance you don't get someone sweating it is all but 0

[rigid oyster]

At this point, portal kinda has a reputation cemented of “that thing u only do if ur prepared for lootrunning to occur”

[charred imp]

is kind of sad, always enjoyed going at a more calm pace and playing with portals a bit, now i just get comments about using portals for stuff instead of recoil spam

[nova mango]

does fishing combat have a chance for scrolls after dailies

dont feel like pinging charging for smth like this if hes traveling

[harsh hill]

@worthy pivot

I hear u're a fishing expert

[feral cliff]

no, just the greater caches

its fine you can ping me for wtv

[harsh hill]

Hi

[feral cliff]

hi trollsilver

[nova mango]

aw man

[worthy pivot]

4x chances from your first 4 fishing combats

1x chance from the fishing quest

[mortal tartan]

me lon

[worthy pivot]

i dont have the exact rates but from anecdotal experience they're cracked

[snow wharf]

No they’re bad buff them :) please yes make fishing great again

(I haven’t tried it, it’s probably okay)

[orchid briar]

From my experience being zero frags zero scrolls from four caches i can't really say much that is family friendly

[nova salmon]

From my experience, I got 2 frags out of 5 crates from yesterday fishing and just 1 scroll out of 5 crates from fishing today

The rates are so so

[nova mango]

i got nothing and i watched agrape open his caches and get nothing :(

[snow wharf]

That’s quite good for a single piece of daily content IMO

[worthy pivot]

thats unfort

[glacial ivy]

i watchewd agrape get one from a fishing quest just now

[nova mango]

maybe quest

but not combat

[nova salmon]

Oh yeah my scroll is from quest

But pretty sure abyssal cache and greater is the same drop chance tho

[warm pebble]

i got 5 frags from fishing dailies from the past 2 dailies and scroll from fishing quest today

[nova mango]

who cares about frags croski 💔

[warm pebble]

um me 🔥

[dense pendant]

anecdotal experience (16 minute lfg portal i was in yesterday) will disagree, i would say its more like a 95-99% chance

[charred imp]

Fair, and I haven't been doing it all that often these days so could just be outdated info

[wispy swan]

a lot of parties fuck up boss coordination

even more so if not everyone survives

[true cave]

i think portal shouldnt give good rates

but it already didnt give good rates so idk

[true cave]

portal was already bad considering 1/50

getting like

1/8 of a frag per run

[feral cliff]

?

That number is not accurate

neither before nor after

[true cave]

i said considering 1/50

like you dont need to go below that

i dont think portal should be good

but its not that good anyways from what i heard?

[primal stratus]

It was better

Got nerfed heavily

But most rates after daily aren’t good so

[wispy swan]

honestly you're better off grinding money elsewhere and buying whatever you want from scrolls

than actively grinding scrolls past dailies/weeklies

[marble pier]

Me Lon

[feral cliff]

misunderstood- I gotcha now

[snow wharf]

Okay, just finished every daily today.
I got 1 scroll frag. I hope i was just unlucky and its not like, more than a week to get a normal scroll from fragments.

I'll probably need more than 1 day as a sample though.

[rigid oyster]

I acquired 6 frags today but I think that was probably above average luck

[snow wharf]

If its somewhere around 4 a day then that will probably feel quite good

[rigid oyster]

i forgot i picked a fragment someone dropped off the floor, make that 5

[primal stratus]

It’s about 1 every 2-3 days (scrolls not frags mb)

[nova salmon]

does nskt drop scroll?

[primal stratus]

No

[eternal gale]

dungeon dont drop scroll

( they shoulve made scroll have 50% to drop in non ex dungeon

[snow wharf]

problem is loot runners

[eternal gale]

Bounty mr and portal

[snow wharf]

MR has a timer and kill count, you can kinda loot run it.
you have to complete the poi to do bounty, so that isn't really lootrunning
portal is uh.. portal..

[primal stratus]

You can speedrun everything, gotta balance around that a bit

And it’s actually smart that the main way to get these is dailies

Since it limits the # that can spawn automatically

[rigid oyster]

part of the point was to encourage ppl to do content they normally don't do or that is normally not worth the effort

[scenic ocean]

Anyone know

How much lower

Is the hotfix

[feral cliff]

Been a couple days, how are fishing rates feeling? Scroll frags in general?

[harsh hill]

Got two scrolls from my fishing yesterday

not sure how lucky that is

[bleak jungle]

i got a frag from my bounty

[remote nebula]

👍

big fan

[grizzled sun]

feel good

[worthy pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/paper-money-paid-bills-money-money-gif-10575952105859357130

how many of these do i have to trade in for a full knight

[remote nebula]

kalsus

[snow wharf]

Least obvious build shard screenshot

[remote nebula]

can i just like, hit tuulen in the head with these to fix her up further

[rigid oyster]

Got 2 frags from 5 greaters yesterday

Frags are doing a good job of making it feel like you’re making progress

[lost fjord]

I think I'm currently like 9 frags out of 12 caches. Haven't dropped a scroll tho.

[glacial ivy]

pretty op

[white merlin]

15 caches 2 fragments i have no idea if thats expected or not but it does feel unrewarding

[rigid oyster]

I do a few pois, fishing, sirius, bounty before i open them together

[low jetty]

keep in mind your sample size is only a few days

everyone's gonna have varied luck

[primal stratus]

I haven gotten any scrolls yet but the frags are really really nice

I get just enough where if I save for a few days of full dailies I can get a sequence scroll

(Much faster than before)

[naive forge]

I have dropped more scrolls than frags.

[white merlin]

yea thats what i meant by expected - its very much possible that ive just been getting unlucky

[burnt pulsar]

I got I believe 7 frags from 15 greater fishing caches and no scrolls

[snow wharf]

i liek that fishing is quite good at frags

Its a calmer content and will bring people to it more

[wary ivy]

This for sure, I think I'm going to permanently have a combat + puzzle saved up in case I go on a super bad luck streak and only get frags

[dense kindle]

Genuinely something I've wanted for an insane amount of time

[snow wharf]

fishing today: 3 frags, 0 scrolls for all 5.

[white merlin]

lorehead reasons aside i think it would just in general facilitate it for anyone who likes to collect them
iirc there was something that a player can only open the book gui on their own (?) so id assume it would have to give you the book to then open it, still far better than having to collect and sort them into chests

[dense kindle]

Agreed, just not something I have the tech know-how to do

I tried to build a weird advancement based system for it years ago and it scaled out of control very fast

[rigid oyster]

bag of holding but for items with "book" tier, quickly blow up monument's player data size

[mortal tartan]

btw the server definitely can open the book gui for the player

hypixel's /report does it

maybe just not for book and quill and that's why nicknackgus couldn't do the mail thing idk

[true cave]

yeah not for book and quill

the mail thing could just be on chat

[mortal tartan]

idk what i'm talking about MONUMENTA does it when you right click on a book lol

what am i yapping about

anyway yeah it's doable

[rigid oyster]

what exactly causes the evoker elite to heal

[rigid oyster]

this bush was obnoxious

[silver lake]

oh what the fuck

is this a setting