If killing AS is the requirement for its entire kit to be good and fun I would take it
#Celestial Zenith Feedback Thread
molten sand
mental sentinel
Realest sh ever
summer hazel
it's not like it';s the only consistant and meaningful damage increase shadow has
delicate timber
shadow is a dead class with AS (just like how frost is a dead class with ava and earth is a dead class without Ewrath) lot of trees are completely centered around 1 abil
red wyvern
people who use AS get to one tap mobs, people who do not use AS don't
shy ibex
as is really mid with add changes now LOL
fallow plume
as is really mid with add changes now LOL
thats just every ability that isnt flame tbh
molten sand
The 650hp vengeance mob in question
red wyvern
Shadow can function but its failure is indicative of a greater balancing issue intrinsic to Zenith (and by extension R3 but off topic)
red wyvern
also Flame and Frost being able to churn out war crimes due to their naturally fucked up scaling
red wyvern
Shadow in Depths is usable because the mobs don't have 10 trillion HP each and mob density is a lot lower
teal plank
Sloth and lust are literally unplayable aswell
red wyvern
Zenith can quite literally have 50 active mobs in an engagement at once
what do you do other than invest into a carpet bomb ability like Avalanche
shy ibex
lust will b efine after fix
mental sentinel
More as charms so i can still two tap the vengeful mob
delicate timber
lust seemed like a great curse! in my solo run. I'm not sure why they would make a curse that is is close to an unconditional damage down
lust + one with the wind solo meta
teal plank
should've joined the stream 🤷
Bro trust me i do not care about ur perma advertised stream
summer hazel
lust exists for dawns to remember that they are meant to be exclusively blessing slaves
no fun allowed, lbottle? who?
fallow plume
nah not anymore rbless sucks now
summer hazel
oh yeah right
fallow plume
ur only choice is afking for sundrops
teal plank
Dawn is peak useless now
delicate timber
oh I guess lust is acutally just completely free on earth, can't do less then 0 damage
summer hazel
dawns are anomaly in the system
summer hazel
can we finally agree that the suggestion to turn overheal into absorption on all dawn abilities was the buff dawn deserved from the start
teal plank
U get the absorp even with sober and it helps alot w the 65effectivr healing
lucid anvil
🗿
fallow plume
i think dawn is just stuck being dead content unless the whole balance patch gets reverted or lbottle gets a considerable base dmg buff, i cannot reliably kill mobs with lbottle anymore even in a15
earlier when i tried a18 even deto wasnt enough to save it because lbottle didnt deal enough damage to kill a single mob in a group
teal plank
Lbottle has been dead since ages
dull heath
society..
red wyvern
Dawn can't work in a kill or be killed environment, Zenith itself would have to change
fallow plume
pre multi change it was insanely good
hollow wagon
Have you tried the new swap hands pocket ability giving you a nice damage buff?
delicate timber
dawn needs abilities that acutally reward you for being a dawn rather then being a caster tree that takes ward of light as a filler
as a frost player I get huge mileage out of dawn abilities; but its stupid that you have to play a completely different tree to make dawn effective.
fallow plume
yeah, i cant really try it to its full potential until totem charms get changed though
fallow plume
the ability itself is cool but im not a huge fan of how its designed, limiting it to 1 player at a time means i cant really use it as full team support but because its also not able to be casted on the same person twice in a row i cant use it to provide constant support to shadow which usually needs it the most
summer hazel
can we give dawn kritzkrieg and ubercharging a player would grant it 300% damage bonus
quaint flicker
the ability itself is cool but im not a huge fan of how its designed, limiting i...
Yeah tbh its a cool ability but with the massive cd and no double target restrictions its longer than some lifelines for nowhere near the same benefit, maybe it could give some cd return if the lifeline aspect to it isnt triggered or something
Not useless but i also dont see charms making it good
delicate timber
how good is the new wind ability?
fallow plume
its certainly an improvement over ward for my 4th abil choice
although in the runs i did earlier i was usually dropping sundrops instead just because the new shadow spawner abil is so fun to use
quaint flicker
how good is the new wind ability?
Until charms get updated im not gonna try to wind cast with it but as a movement ability is S tier aside from the long cd
And the damage is solid too
Maybe could use more aoe for the cd though
delicate timber
do you think its good enough to ever take off class?
summer hazel
it's a solid swap ability
empty sentinel
Me
quaint flicker
There already exists a few spawners like that that im convinced like 5% of the playerbase knows about cause ive barely seen anyone mine them, chronology probably makes it more noticeable
shy ibex
please remove it frozen earth
empty sentinel
What….
fallow plume
shoutout that one ceiling spawner in the f2 normal room near the anvil that never spawns anything
delicate timber
There already exists a few spawners like that that im convinced like 5% of the p...
that does not includes me, I just learned about that spawner right now
I do know that there are a LOT of spawners in the floor; like way more then you would expect there to be
maiden flare
textwall
from frost opinion (i have compelted up to a17 havent done a18 yet)
Sloth: This has potential to be very easily a nuisance but still fun to play with, the numbers on it are just a little harsh currently. If instead half of your speed was inversed and you lost 20% speed, this curse would be much better.
Lust and Anchoring: Right now these two are completely unplayable for frost at least. Anchoring just removes your most important abil and lust makes it do quite literally 20 damage with max dmg charms. It is very difficult to clear solo, but simply reducing the radius at which this curse starts to take effect would be a good start. Impatience is honestly in a good spot, I say it's unplayable just because I'm a caster.
Death is really just two curses in one, it's very painful to not only take twice as long reviving teammates, but having your own revive timer be quite literally 2 seconds. I can see this being an autopick for some very skilled players, but maybe increasing it to 5 seconds your first death would make this a littlel more forgiving, or even removing the timer aspect totally and just taking twice as long for revives.
Greed needs a buff for sure, I barely even notice its effects 90% of the time. Making it start from epic or up might help, or giving vulnerability in addition to losing health.
dull heath
what is stopping you from ignoring f3 curse by.. not picking any abils
dense fiber
what is stopping you from ignoring f3 curse by.. not picking any abils
wtf insane meta
delicate timber
ngl most of the curses just don't sound very fun to play with. Half of them just erase game mechanics and call that difficulty\
teal plank
what is stopping you from ignoring f3 curse by.. not picking any abils
Do not leak the strat
coral saffron
irrus
fallow plume
it also relies on getting all abils before f3 which isnt exactly something u can rely on
teal plank
Ur not relying on anything u pick if u need u dont if u dont
delicate timber
ngl most of the curses just don't sound very fun to play with. Half of them just...
erase, an entire ability slot, erase EVERY potion effect, erase ALL speed, erase half your damage, erase the only bit of control you have left (your choice of abilities)
shy ibex
probably placebo but it feels harder to get the abilities you want now 🔥
every run i dont get a key ability
maiden flare
probably placebo but it feels harder to get the abilities you want now 🔥
yeah lol
i never get the abils i want f1
shy ibex
idk if thats just me playing too much spawner rush a15
teal plank
probably placebo but it feels harder to get the abilities you want now 🔥
Placebo
maiden flare
maybe its cuz you dont remember getting the abils you want, but remember getting the abils you dont
lol
empty sentinel
By adding 1 new ability we have completely diluted the choice pool
delicate timber
erase, an entire ability slot, erase EVERY potion effect, erase ALL speed, erase...
erase an entire ability slot is the most egregious one here. Why is this even in the game?
teal plank
maybe its cuz you dont remember getting the abils you want, but remember getting...
🖊️ 🔥
Shit
That is not what it should ne
Whatever
maiden flare
you got the order wrong
shy ibex
the pen is on fire!!
teal plank
Yea
empty sentinel
Burning the paper
maiden flare
really awesome pen
quaint flicker
# textwall
from frost opinion (i have compelted up to a17 havent done a18 yet)
S...
Disagree on greed its very noticeable by the time you get to vesp unless you specifically opted to not get legendary abilites (dont always have a choice), i often have like -30% or worse ehp which is playable but also makes you fold like paper unless you have good side trees or a colossal pot or run tankier (which just turns it into a -damage buff)
teal plank
Disagree on greed its very noticeable by the time you get to vesp unless you spe...
Ok but ur shadow
quaint flicker
Dependancy is the only one thats like not a curse imo
teal plank
Also if u got ruin and greed greed gets cancelled out pmuch
maiden flare
Disagree on greed its very noticeable by the time you get to vesp unless you spe...
i play with hyceneas so i really just have normal health by vesp
shy ibex
i get -12% on greed on every run because how bad my rng is as we take every damn ability room
maiden flare
LMAOO
shy ibex
we need curseo f greed 2 where its less dmg if common abilities
maiden flare
Dependancy is the only one thats like not a curse imo
why is it not a curse
teal plank
If u splash regen pots
quaint flicker
65% healing rate isnt that bad
teal plank
Its not a curse
maiden flare
i just eat a ton of pomes
quaint flicker
Ehp is nice to not lifeline or get 1 shot
Outside of that you can regen if you need to
shy ibex
i used divine beam 5 times during a brood ora
teal plank
Ehp is nice to not lifeline or get 1 shot
Js slap blightpod on the vesp build
Surely it works
Less dmg but who care
quaint flicker
The attack speed
teal plank
Drug up homie
quaint flicker
You could swap uridans for something but then youre not damagemaxxing which is cringe
shy ibex
i had to switch uriddan to eternal resolve cuz i was getting cooked so bad
teal plank
i had to switch uriddan to eternal resolve cuz i was getting cooked so bad
Nightmares warden user
❌❌
glass cypress
# textwall
from frost opinion (i have compelted up to a17 havent done a18 yet)
S...
our frost got forced into ruin 2 runs in a row made all their shit common. i think its either unpleasant or unplayable for me but it can be mitigated by just not picking anything anymore
teal plank
our frost got forced into ruin 2 runs in a row made all their shit common. i thi...
Is it really as bad as sloth tho
quaint flicker
Sloth is awful
dull heath
we beating a18 abilitiless with this one
teal plank
Also fun fact u get downgraded even if u decline a geno gift
spare creek
Also fun fact u get downgraded even if u decline a geno gift
oh that's a bug
teal plank
🔥
glass cypress
Is it really as bad as sloth tho
they picked sloth on f3 because they were dealing 0 dmg so just was basically afk
iirc
dull heath
bro is shy
teal plank
Shut
spare creek
i am fixing it right now do not worry
dull heath
biblical angel aah response
teal plank
they picked sloth on f3 because they were dealing 0 dmg so just was basically af...
Az1 picked lust thinking its just 80 additive dmg (i aint know what that mean) and he did 20tick avas
glass cypress
in terms of run fuck its proably around glutoner
teal plank
Glutoner is actually playable tho
empty sentinel
Sm1 write a report iono how
👉 👈
teal plank
Like
teal plank
If u pair some of these curses with ruin they are not that bad
glass cypress
with greed sure
empty sentinel
You know, there was a really funny curse idea that we didn't put in
But idk if I should share it or not
teal plank
U could defo pair ruin and gluttony tho
dull heath
But idk if I should share it or not
share it or become square
teal plank
Idk why but it seems like ruin insta downgrades the abil u upgrade/pick
Like the second u pick ur twisted abil it goes insta to eg
dull heath
it clearly says ruin
teal plank
Leg
delicate timber
Curse of lust damage reduction should come in slowly. so you start at your normal damage but after being around your teammates for long enough it slowly goes down. so you have to periodically go on a solo mission to maintain your damage.
teal plank
Have fun coding that
dull heath
or just make it scale with distance
delicate timber
Curse of lust damage reduction should come in slowly. so you start at your norma...
call it curse of shyness or something
dull heath
😭
line of sight could be intresting but way harsher
though you could play around it more
crank 90s mid bossfight
quaint flicker
Pretty sure they already are planning on changing lust completely or scaling on how far away you are from other people instead of how close
flat venture
@glacial sun can we add curse of ra into the actual game
ionic moon
you random choke on sands
hardy oriole
# textwall
from frost opinion (i have compelted up to a17 havent done a18 yet)
S...
the problem with these tierlists is that half the curses rely on what class you play so anchoring is unplayable for frost but very chill on shadow, greed is very chill on caster bc of hyceneas but borderline unplayable for shadow that doesnt get as much hp
also i think curses should have a way of getting around them so eith greed you dont take legendary abils and with sloth you avoid speed buffs instead of just being unavoidable debuffs
maiden flare
line of sight could be intresting but way harsher
this is honestly awesome
very cool gameplay can come from this
i can already imagine the screaming at teammates to get out of the way
flat venture
also i think curses should have a way of getting around them so eith greed you d...
sloth is just terrible in bosses
and ruin just lets you not get ability upgrades
hardy oriole
sloth is just terrible in bosses
yea but i think it would be cool if it only reversed speed effects
half wasp
yea but i think it would be cool if it only reversed speed effects
then it's a free curse basically
flat venture
yeah i had us splash speed pots but not for sloth ppl
hardy oriole
then it's a free curse basically
erm
flat venture
fol gives u negative speed
hardy oriole
i am a biased frost that gets expedite, fol, frozen domain
half wasp
unless you play shadow most classes don't need external speed to play
hardy oriole
i failed every run where someone picked sloth
so it does seem like all classes need it
flat venture
sloth just fails at vesp
if not at brood
or clear
and if u got a speed abil ur just locked out of it
same with fol and expedite and ardor
the -25% part is very harsh and like
not being able to speed effects makes it worse
since u cant even eat fol without dying
cant even pdew
teal plank
Expedite patron buff and fol 💔
half wasp
at least you can disable patron buffa
half wasp
not sure if you can do it mid run
flat venture
patron buff sob
half wasp
patron altar has an opt out i think
teal plank
Ah that sucks if it removes all the buffs
flat venture
also if u drink pdew ur dead
teal plank
Including str res
flat venture
u can opt out of certain buffs
half wasp
yeah i think that wasn't intended though
teal plank
Fire
flat venture
sloth just fails at fol and expedite
its terrible
and ur almost forced into a speedy set to not get nuked in vesp
half wasp
i do agree that in brood and vesp getting hit once means you're getting hit more than once, and so having less speed is a really bad debuff
*thinking about venom spray, web carpet, platform breaker or void wave
charred ravine
I did 4 a17 runs yesterday and I can confidently say that sidearm is dead
please contact @charred ravine if you are willing to sell gravity bomb charms
charred ravine
really?
charred ravine
that's weird, I don't think charms are updated yet
teal plank
this was a shitty howling charm
charred ravine
weird
teal plank
but then this still has howling stats 🤷♂️
charred ravine
Greed is hard countered by colossal pots
hardy oriole
I think twisted abilities shouldn't count for greed
greed is already pretty tame
teal plank
Auto -8% hp
Greed is the only curse thats free as hell on most classes
glass cypress
dependency is pretty unnoticeable aswell
coarse quartz
Yeah
Dependency and greed are easy to counter and just not noticeable I'm the first place
coarse quartz
Oh yeah the new prismatic passives are great. good way to play around with the new system
i do think abnormality is way too booty right now
giving a random curse is worth like 2 twisted abilities i cant even lie
maybe if you could choose the twisted and the curse
but having any curse rn is just too much to have from the start
maybe it could rework into "For the rest of the floor, you have 2 additional curses, but they will blossom into a blessing after beating the boss." So you have a short term but much more risky risk to get a permanent good reward
but idk the nature of curses just makes having any that u dont need to have throwing
oh yeah a buff to curse of anchoring could be randomly taking a keybind instead of always swap
isnt so bias towards certain trees but it can just fuck over everyone if it feels like it
coral saffron
i think we should get curse of schizophrenia with disappearing and fake mobs
coarse quartz
i mean
a curse that hides/messes up the boss cast abilities
would be pretty dang funny'
lik in the bossbar
coarse quartz
imagine it just says "casting leg sweep" and suddenly it shoots web carpets
"casting bloody fang" and it dashes and the team gets wiped
dull heath
random mind spiders that disappear when they touch you
Haunted but it doesnt damage you just eats your projectiles
Schizo monster
coral saffron
i think we should get curse of schizophrenia with disappearing and fake mobs
Curse of Schizophrenia:
The Stars are invading your mind...
Boss bar abilities are randomized and mobs will occasionally disappear as if they were never there.
hollow wagon
Curse of Shadows: spawns an entity that follows you more aggressively than haunted, but gives debuff/silence etc instead of damage
lucid anvil
Curse of Shadows: spawns an entity that follows you more aggressively than haunt...
unplayable
lone lichen
maybe abnormality should be turn ur curse into a random 1
glass cypress
maybe abnormality should be turn ur curse into a random 1
or perhaps what if u got to choose the curse that u got from abnormality
🥹
teal plank
Curse of Schizophrenia:
*The Stars are invading your mind...*
Boss bar abilities...
this is cooking
fallow plume
i think spawner ranges could do with being adjusted in this room, ive had 2 runs die since update because 2 moth queens spawn on the top floor while we're still dealing with the elites at the bottom
glacial sun
I'll try to respawner it for the update, though I think ranges aren't the exact issue here
teal plank
I'll try to respawner it for the update, though I think ranges aren't the exact ...
There is also the big elite f2 room with the water elevator covered in black glass that has an issue
It spawns all the elites in the middle even if ur still at the bottom part
empty sentinel
No
glacial sun
known bug and pi will make a fix for it, not sure whether it'll be hotfixed or when if it is
spare creek
likely hotfix tonight but no promises
worldly kite
that's how we won the one a18 run i did was 3 of us just did not pick our any abilities after 2 cuz all of the curses was BAD
worldly kite
oracore had super good luck so it was a free win 🙂
coarse quartz
Ptsd
worldly kite
that's how we won the one a18 run i did was 3 of us just did not pick our any ab...
im saying this here cuz its dumb
coarse quartz
I've gone through things in that goddamn dungeon
worldly kite
that's how we won the one a18 run i did was 3 of us just did not pick our any ab...
having to do this sometimes to win is not COOl its just MORE rng
but i did only do 1 a18 run so i can't say much
outer brook
having to do this sometimes to win is not COOl its just MORE rng
seems like a good strat to me
fallow plume
oh yeah imo reroll should give you 3 new choices instead of 3 random ones including the ones you just rerolled
i meant to say that the other day when i rerolled 3 bad curses into the same 3
surreal kiln
mabye giving 1 reroll on f1 and f2 boss comp
quaint flicker
yeah a way to remove/reroll curses would be great, maybe requires sacrificing abilities or something
some are borderline unplayable depending on your class
fallow plume
i think spawner ranges could do with being adjusted in this room, ive had 2 runs...
had a similar issue in this room, i got perned by a mob from one of the lower spawners when i was at the top which hasnt happened to me before this update
charred ravine
All of the new rooms really need to tone down on the pull trident guys
I achieved flight for 6 seconds after I got juggled mid air by 3 tridenters
they're especially annoying in the platform like structure of the rooms
molten sand
I wish I had taken screenshots but a couple of the new rooms on F3 just have so many spawners
molten sand
yeah a way to remove/reroll curses would be great, maybe requires sacrificing ab...
inb4 a new util room gets added that cleanses a single curse, driving the RNG factor even higher
charred ravine
inb4 a new util room gets added that cleanses a single curse, driving the RNG fa...
50/50 chance to cleanse a curse or your highest rated ability :pog:
molten sand
LMAO
charred ravine
I think the curse of no positive potion effects shouldn't disable consumables
my pea brain was chugging pomes for half a boss only to realize they were doing jack shit
@spare creek Consumables as in:
It also disables potion injector which is wild
dusk bay
perhaps the curse could be reworked to:
Using a consumable (potion, boon, food) buff immediately ends all other buffs of that type.
kills buff stack, stops util potion rooms from being a waste
charred ravine
It's a really harsh curse right now
practically only leaves you saturation to heal
lucid anvil
I honestly don’t find that one to be that intrusive
charred ravine
or if you use sapper..
lucid anvil
It’s an insta pick from me but I don’t play shadow so
charred ravine
you also can't participate in potion splashes before bosses
lucid anvil
I know it’s very bad for shadows
lucid anvil
you also can't participate in potion splashes before bosses
Still gotta splash for the team 😤
But yeah the pull trident guys are awful
agile rock
kinda hot take
but it feels like we should start making new trees instead of reworking current ones
lucid anvil
Real
molten sand
ermmm
charred ravine
ermmmmm
lucid anvil
But to be fair, a lot of abilities needed the rework
fallow plume
I wish I had taken screenshots but a couple of the new rooms on F3 just have so ...
If you just want to be able to reference them they were posted here #1263773425411948595 message
molten sand
meanwhile shadow crying in the corner
agile rock
stuff are kinda stale rn and more tree variety would help
add like 4 more
one for each style maybe
had idea about an entire summoner tree
lucid anvil
Shadow actually does really well this update
molten sand
If you just want to be able to reference them they were posted here https://disc...
Thanks!
The first and third room specifically
molten sand
Shadow actually does really well this update
I mean shadow is always good but like, blade flurry...
charred ravine
unfortunately
lucid anvil
Not spell steel?
flat venture
practically only leaves you saturation to heal
b-but pomes give saturation
lucid anvil
I found that people who use injector are more affected by the no pot curse and generally think of it as much worse, which makes sense since iridium is a crutch to them. I’ve heard mixed things about the curse from the guild where I myself, I saturation stack so that’s why I think it’s one of the best curses, but Lucy, who plays shadow, thinks it’s one of the worst. And abtruse also flame thinks it’s pretty bad.
I think it’s in a good place because of that but I can understand why people generally don’t enjoy it.
flat venture
its like
lucid anvil
I think my fear with a lot of this is don’t make a18 too easy
flat venture
you think its just no -5cdr 15dmg and 20% speed
until you get curse of greed
or realize u cant even pome
or pi
lucid anvil
Some curses are unplayable rn and this isn’t one of them
flat venture
injector honestly i dont rly mind
flat venture
health
flat venture
its just colossal pot
lucid anvil
You just don’t choose abilities last floor if possible
teal plank
It's a really harsh curse right now
i meannnnnnnnnnn if its not on shadow its fine
u can get absorp from bottled sunlight or even if u eat inf food w ichor
charred ravine
ichor gives like 1.5 hp absorption 😭
teal plank
amber sand
All of the new rooms really need to tone down on the pull trident guys
f3 would be so much more fun to me if it had less of em in general tbh
I get tagged by one of em randomly, fall 30 blocks, spend 70% of the room just running around on the floor while they keep on doing their best mk scorpion impression
it just doesn't feel that fun
stuck ice
My feedback on steel changes as spellsteel main:
Sidearm changes make it more clear oriented, and it is even more dependent on charms now, because it really needs that +1 charge and 2s cd reduction now to be atleast as effective as pre-rework.
Damage cap and -2 damage nerf make it hard to get oneshots sometimes and you need to kill 3 out of 3 to reset it without cd reduction charms even on max -cd.(Also can we update legacy kcd reduction charms to 2s instead of 2% pls)
Firework blast range becoming not dependent on hit is a good change, but it still lacks damage and mostly used as carapace breaker.
Gravity Bomb is a great replacement for near-useless Metalmancy, cool visuals, pretty effective in gameplay too.
Sharpshooter merging with proj mastery is whatever, but can we have a way to get stacks using abilities other than volley? It's not sustainable at all if you mainly use sidearm and other abils to clear.
glacial sun
I think sidearm is a huge improvement over the way it was before, you're entirely not mentioning just how much less punishing it is to miss a single shot or breakpoint compared to before, plus it can also now be used as a stronger burst ability
stuck ice
I think sidearm is a huge improvement over the way it was before, you're entirel...
it is true, however it is not viable as boss dps now at all, and I feel like damage is just not there sometimes when I don't roll good passives from other trees
dusk bay
Sidearm: Now stores 3 charges and has a 14s cooldown, replenishing all charges when coming off cooldown. Kills reduce its cooldown by 3s. Damage decreased by 2 at all levels.
left phoenix
I really like the sidearm
It also opens up another usage which is quick burst
3 sidearms can do some big damage, and it’s pretty easy to get at least 1 cdr
dusk bay
Before you'd get 3 shots in 12 seconds without charms as the boss won't be dying to sidearm, 3 shots in 14s does not seem like a significant dps downgrade (without considering charms)
glacial sun
~10% less damage and effectively ~16% more cooldown does make it weaker if you only care about shooting the boss but adds exist in every fight and it's really good at clearing those or doing a mix of the two
this is also without considering that you might have downtime between you being able to hit the boss where being able to store up more damage could be a net dps benefit
stuck ice
I agree that it is not worse overall, I just dont like the added charm dependancy
glacial sun
I think it's more of being able to invest in it more than dependency
I don't have +charges or updated cdr and it worked really well
if anything I am kind of scared of how much you can invest into it
stuck ice
maybe when charms get updated or I'll roll new ones it would be much better tbh
It just feels like steel lost most of its boss dps
and is just a clear class now
quaint flicker
rapid fire and sharpshooter are solid options for boss dps
scrapshot too outside of damage capped stuff
glacial sun
you could also consider that sidearm being burst allows you to spend more time throwing projectiles which would result in less of a dps decrease than the perceived loss from ~10% damage ~16% cooldown (excluding charm changes)
stuck ice
cd cap nerfs really made a hit on dps of rf/scrap
stuck ice
you could also consider that sidearm being burst allows you to spend more time t...
true, but its excluding charms
max cd sidearm was 2s before and you could get it to 1,75 really easily
basic projectile attacks are mostly used to get stacks on boss and do not do that much
left phoenix
I wanted to say change the cd system to haste system for a while but I don’t think that’s happening
50 down to 30 is big
quaint flicker
charms got nerfed to nerf the classes, new caps shouldnt be trying to scale to how good they were before the change
stuck ice
true
quaint flicker
like every class got nerfed a big amount
stuck ice
steel is honestly better off now when some other classes got a huge decrease in efficiency
and gravity bomb is an actual usable skill and not walking visual clutter
I mostly just want to be able to get sharp stacks with sidearm in clear
left phoenix
After the change I think I like to play steel more than flame actually
Just a feeling idk exactly why
glacial sun
I have had success with screwdriver because its the best at getting sharpshooter stacks and hitting gravity bomb but it does feel bad if spellsteel partially relies on A Single Silly Item
I think in a hypothetical world where you only had the slower weapons (bows/tridents/crossbows (ignore witchbane existing for the sake of argument)) it could be fine if sidearm granted stacks but when you have super fast options like screwdriver it would be too easy to max out when those are used together
somewhat related to that point, while snowballs have synergy with gravity bomb/sharpshooter they basically can't use volley
left phoenix
But then if this is the case wouldn’t sidearm not stacking make this gap between items even greater
Because slow weapons will have no good way to stack versus at least have sidearm to stack
glacial sun
increases both, probably helping out the former more
we accidentally got 3 subclasses in a trench coat (bow/crossbow/trident gameplay focused on volley and a more difficult time with gravity bomb, a spellsteel hybrid that does both but not the best at either, and full spellsteel) like real scout has 2
stuck ice
When I don't get sidearm and play like a trad steel, it is very easy to get stacks tbh
Screwdriver and oneiro make you have full stacks almost instantly
glacial sun
Yeah the issue is when you invest time managing your abilities like gravbomb/sidearm and can't keep up stacks
stuck ice
Maybe grant a stack every two kills atleast
Idk full spellsteel just has little time to get stacks in clear
And most of sharp damage is in stacks so
glacial sun
out of the two it might make more sense for gravitybomb to have it actually since it's less volatile in terms of how much you can use it
left phoenix
do you get a stack when hitting the bomb?
stuck ice
Gravity bomb would be like 5-6 stacks every 16 seconds
If we grant a stack per mob hit with it
glacial sun
It would just be +1 on hit or something hypothetically
glacial sun
do you get a stack when hitting the bomb?
I am not sure
it has tags that make it immune to skills but whether or not that applies to granting sharpshooter idk
stuck ice
I still think that main tool of spellsteel(sidearm) should have access to granting the main DMG modifier of the class
Even if its not much or hard to get
Should also work as a way to keep playing aggressively to keep stacks
empty sentinel
do you get a stack when hitting the bomb?
Yes
molten sand
coarse quartz
I agree that it is not worse overall, I just dont like the added charm dependanc...
very much disagree sidearm feels more viable to me now and i dont even have charm stats for it
charred ravine
sidearm is more of a burst skill now
stuck ice
yea but overall dps is worse
molten sand
that's...yes
stuck ice
that's also cuz damge cap reduction
coarse quartz
i mean i run a real steel build (rf, focused, volley) and my dps didnt change much bc focused and rf are the DPS skills really
charred ravine
it's not exactly more lenient now, right now you have to kill mobs 3 times in a row with it to reset
coarse quartz
yea but overall dps is worse
everyones is
charred ravine
excluding the reset charm stat
coarse quartz
i think steel got hit less while shadow got hit harder so the gap between them in fact closed
charred ravine
shadow is.. much better at dps
glacial sun
it's not exactly more lenient now, right now you have to kill mobs 3 times in a ...
you can miss 1/3 and get 2/3 of a reset
that is the leniency
stuck ice
i mean i run a real steel build (rf, focused, volley) and my dps didnt change mu...
then sidearm is prob better if you use it for finishing enemies off
coarse quartz
i dont
stuck ice
you can miss 1/3 and get 2/3 of a reset
that is the leniency
you reset on kill not on hit tho
coarse quartz
its just like brute force to me pretty much just a free dmg value on top of my main attack
charred ravine
you can miss 1/3 and get 2/3 of a reset
that is the leniency
it's up to preference i suppose
stuck ice
I was talking from standpoint of using it as main damage source
coarse quartz
oh
stuck ice
and yea it is not worse
coarse quartz
idk about that one i dont do that stuff
charred ravine
i think it's a cool side skill but i wouldnt invest charms into it anymore
today i maxed out gravity bomb charms
real enlightenment was achieved
stuck ice
it is different, slightly better at some things, slightly worse on others
which is about preference
I dropped 3 decent gravity bomb charms first day of update from mog
and gravity bomb is good
coarse quartz
shadow is.. much better at dps
for calli and vesp probs but steel CAN dps (It always could) and its okay at it, even more okay now. For brood there is an argument to be had for steel being side by side with shadow with it having only a small gap in killing speed but being MUCH safer
charred ravine
yeah gravity bomb is real neat
stuck ice
sometimes bees get blocked by mobs tho
coarse quartz
gravity bomb is cool
charred ravine
you can invest into rapid fire and gravity bomb and do real well
stuck ice
for calli and vesp probs but steel CAN dps (It always could) and its okay at it,...
pre rework yea
pre additive changes
stuck ice
from recent update or addi rework?
coarse quartz
in fact with sharpshooter buffs my RF can hit 210+ consistently after additive
charred ravine
sidearm used to do 800 right with scrapshot hitting for 1.2k+
coarse quartz
o
charred ravine
damage definitely DID change
stuck ice
as I already said max I got was 1.3 k
coarse quartz
thats sad
stuck ice
that was with insane luck and buffs
stuck ice
but I could solo dps vesp on high asc with good luck
charred ravine
biggest mistake is investing into focused combos right now
charred ravine
steel melee is good in f1 and then it just falls off
stuck ice
sidearm 800 doesnt sound very balanced/consistent
even if that sounds really op, remember that we never were in steel meta
charred ravine
but most people just spawner rush f1 so.....
stuck ice
steel was considered bad even with 1k/2s
shy ibex
i would assuem thats getting fully fixed next week bumkers
molten sand
steel was considered bad even with 1k/2s
Anything would be considered bad at dps if compared to shadow
But shadow damage is necessary so
stuck ice
yea on vesp you either do a ton of damage really quickly or die
shy ibex
i think comparing classes to shadow dps makes no sense but suit yourself
stuck ice
rf is once per 16s tho
charred ravine
it does not do 2400...
coarse quartz
lol
charred ravine
the math for that just doesnt exist
molten sand
that seems sus
stuck ice
so dps is not good
coarse quartz
12 arrows, 200 per arrow
glacial sun
maybe he is doing an elden ring 50 second buff cycle
charred ravine
200 per arrow is not real
shy ibex
would firerate not hit iframe cap lol
coarse quartz
bumky i literally used it on the training dummy and talked about it in the run when u tested gravity bomb
shy ibex
its already quite fast
quaint flicker
would firerate not hit iframe cap lol
normal would too but the arrows bypass iframes
shy ibex
oh okay nice
molten sand
Fire rate also doesn't increase overall dps yeah?
coarse quartz
its already quite fast
rf bypasses iframes naturally
coarse quartz
Fire rate also doesn't increase overall dps yeah?
ik just a faster burst
its very noticeable
btw is 50% the cap?
shy ibex
fire rate means you can do other stuff after using rf
charred ravine
stormblessed does 180 damage with maxed sharpshooter
molten sand
Ah fair
charred ravine
why does rapid fire do 200
stuck ice
200 per arrow might be possible with buffs and passives like deth
shy ibex
the manmonke buff
coarse quartz
🤷
stuck ice
and fol
coarse quartz
my shadowstone does 240
stuck ice
bumkers which build are u using
coarse quartz
no
i use kinda the opposite in fact 105% proj
bumky u had like 30% rf dmg
i ahve 80% max
charred ravine
i have 67%
charred ravine
no wtf
coarse quartz
aight bro
charred ravine
this guy is just a paid agent trying to get innocent old steel nerfed
stuck ice
entire server steel population in this tread rn
shy ibex
the 3 steel players
molten sand
yeah it's just you three
stuck ice
there's like 5 total
coarse quartz
like bumky u ever wanna explain WHY u dont include sharpshooter
molten sand
nip nop rip
stuck ice
If you play spell you dont have stacks anyway
coarse quartz
thats like not including AS on shadow
coarse quartz
If you play spell you dont have stacks anyway
bruh
charred ravine
bumkers: Thinks steel is decent, manmonke: STEEL IS OP!!, Fennec: (Only sane one here), nipnop: [REDACTED]
glacial sun
speaking of AS
molten sand
uh oh
glacial sun
(end of sentence)
coarse quartz
bumkers: Thinks steel is decent, manmonke: STEEL IS OP!!, Fennec: (Only sane one...
never said its op
molten sand
concern
glacial sun
anyone like swift slash
coarse quartz
bro why do epople talk my takes wildly out of proportion i said it can dps alognside shadow in brood and clear good now
molten sand
what is swift slash
charred ravine
DPS similar to shadow is quite wild
coarse quartz
anyone like swift slash
???
molten sand
as is getting yeeted mark my words
coarse quartz
DPS similar to shadow is quite wild
in brood where u have to burst down hp every couple of seconds?
mental sentinel
bro why do epople talk my takes wildly out of proportion i said it can dps alogn...
Wtf youre going to take the shadow job as dps 🥹
IM GOING BROKE
charred ravine
swift slash is advancing shadows replacement
stuck ice
bro why do epople talk my takes wildly out of proportion i said it can dps alogn...
thats what I did pre addi rework
coarse quartz
its still 10x better in calli and vesp i just said its arguably useable in brood compared to shadow
glacial sun
no it's a random elden ring skill
dusk bay
(end of sentence)
can't wait
molten sand
I mean
charred ravine
nicknon replace volley with enchanted arrow ❤️
molten sand
As long as it doesn't kill shadow
coarse quartz
fr?
dusk bay
maybe shadow can get some base damage now
coarse quartz
back to tank set scout clearing an entire room with 1 enchanted arrow?
molten sand
Make it bearable during clear
glacial sun
I think AS is the real worst remaining ancient relic of depths and I have a cool idea for it
dusk bay
🗨️
molten sand
I am not opposed to yeeting it if it means Shadow can play nice for sure
dusk bay
I publicly apologize for it as well
apology accepted
charred ravine
what about that one f3 elite room
glacial sun
real thanks for the description
molten sand
one thing at a time
glacial sun
the one with 3 less spawners than nadir?
molten sand
LOL
worldly kite
what about that one f3 elite room
bro i was just about to ask
glacial sun
I've wanted to split it into 2 for a while just never gotten around to it
coarse quartz
bro i was just about to ask
wanna do a18 rn
charred ravine
hypeace fell down and it summoned 4 twisteds
molten sand
I have to say the changes to old rooms (one f1 and one f2 elite rooms) were great
coarse quartz
i hate that room
molten sand
More of that please
coarse quartz
insert nookplayz clip
worldly kite
wanna do a18 rn
coarse quartz
that new f3 normal room with like the blazes in the vines too?
glacial sun
I'll probably reduce number of reelers in new rooms by like 1 each unless they're necessary
coarse quartz
that new f3 normal room with like the blazes in the vines too?
i literally remember an a18 run we saw normal ability, last room b4 vesp, i was screaming at them dont risk it! take the util! getzoinked said nooooo, he picked it and it was this room and we got 2 deaths 😋
glacial sun
that new f3 normal room with like the blazes in the vines too?
is this the horizontal one or the tiny one
molten sand
it was already egregious in that one normal room you have to go down in and the new rooms made it worse
coarse quartz
is this the horizontal one or the tiny one
the horizontal one i think? its like small but not tiny
molten sand
If the entire kit gets buffed I don't see why not
mental sentinel
Please for the love of god delete AS for a fun cool clear ability
coarse quartz
its the one with little islands and water too
shy ibex
If the entire kit gets buffed I don't see why not
thatd work
glacial sun
please dont change AS nicknon
this is like when patrons were giving feedback on a screenshot of curse of impatience with 0 context on what it was
shy ibex
LOL
molten sand
Also pls buff base blade flurry radius
glacial sun
I'm ahead of you on that one
shy ibex
blade flurry needs some changes
molten sand
Nice
shy ibex
too op with charms
quaint flicker
4.5 radius on a 5s cd is too op real
quaint flicker
borderline better to take chromablade
shy ibex
ive always been a chromablade enthusiast
glacial sun
I was thinking of replacing carapace with the idolatry suggestion from a while ago which should also be an indirect shadow buff and make the modifier overall more engaging/fun and less frustrating
coarse quartz
what is this suggestion for reference ?
glacial sun
I will link it unless someone else gets to it first
molten sand
Ah yeah
glacial sun
#suggestions-voting message
molten sand
Would that be a replacement for normal content as well?
glacial sun
probably though if people are skeptical it could be a test run in zenith
coarse quartz
does the idol have means to defend itself? how tanky is it?
dusk bay
Immobile means no bloodthirsty movement from it right
molten sand
Anything is better than carapace tbh
coarse quartz
i mean carapace isnt the worst
mental sentinel
It isnt the most interesting, esp with the dmg buff on mobs
molten sand
But like, the vengeful carapace arcanic mob in question
mental sentinel
That and idolatry equals more mobs so 🥺🥺🥺
glacial sun
I don't think it'd need a damage buff or anything I'm just interested in the stationary high priority target to take out part of it
wait theres no damage buff part did you just make that up
Oh you meant Carapace
molten sand
It genuinely sounds 10 times as engaging as carapace is, big fan
glacial sun
The other experimental idea I had was capping infernal spectral dread and colossal at 3, which is how it was (minus infernal) a while ago
- For Dread especially it makes it more interesting since they aren't guaranteed
- Reduces "delve sameyness"
- Reduces how much you can tune mobs directly in your favor, e.g. dread on rogue
- I just think it'd be better for them to be rarer and I've done a couple of delves like this
dusk bay
So the idea is that if you didn't use single target damage, you'd effectively need to do 4x the aoe to kill each mob?
glacial sun
If this were to exist in main game I'd like to do something like old Twisted and include that in challenges so that they're more interesting and that its not a nerf
molten sand
That also sounds wonderful
mental sentinel
Old twisted 
glacial sun
Unrelated to this zenith talk but I don't think we did challenge delves right on our first try and I would like to improve them when I am able (probably player cap removal, not having an arbitrary cap of 50 because not all mods are as equal as others, having a unique modifier like twisted)
molten sand
I think max points tend to throw too many enemies at you impacing gameplay and visual clarity, so less frequent but more impactful encounters is nice
empty sentinel
Nicknon is cooking
molten sand
(challenge cyan is the best example, however that is mostly infernal diff)
glacial sun
So the idea is that if you didn't use single target damage, you'd effectively ne...
Depends on the exact HP value of the idol
hallow sphinx
Unrelated to this zenith talk but I don't think we did challenge delves right on...
cyan should be first on the list 
glacial sun
three ways you can really win
- focus it, either by having all your aoe abilities damage it or singletargeting it
- dealing enough damage so that the damagetransfer kills it
- just killing mobs through the dr
some other ideas
- we could remove the chance for extra ability choices prismatic (Prosperity) since extra rerolls serves the same niche but in a more interesting way, with a limited currency and no rng attached to it.
- curse idea: opposite of Multiplicity (maybe casting 2 abilities from the same tree grants you negative cd recharge rate?), perhaps with a time limit so that you aren't forced to intentionally trigger it between encounters/rooms which could get annoying
- Curse-related utility room idea: You get 3 options (GUI or 3 buttons)
- Gain a temporary curse for X rooms and some kind of buff after that point (Random curse and random buff, but shown in tooltip?)
- Reroll a curse, possibly random, possibly selection of 2 or 3, possibly uses some kind of cost
- Remove a curse, with some kind of big cost attached to it (Maybe too similar to the second option)
ionic moon
do u gain rr from upgrading opportunity?
glacial sun
yeah
empty sentinel
Yes
ionic moon
ic
hallow sphinx
uh is there charm stat called "gravity bomb explosion delay"
glacial sun
there is not
empty sentinel
i cant aim for shit
Skill... issue
charred ravine
buddy you are unaware of the tragedy that is projectile trajectory calculations at high ping
empty sentinel
That's fair
glacial sun
get low ping teammates to shoot them for you
hallow sphinx
kinda stupid that the bombs have linear trajectory 😭
hallow sphinx
I can't shoot them to the ground
charred ravine
get low ping teammates to shoot them for you
that is literally my game plan mister nicknon
i have all teammates on the lookout for glowing unidentified flying objects
glacial sun
pangs and I were double gravity bombing and it was awesome until he died in f1
hallow sphinx
gravity bomb would be more awesome to use if the bees could be aimed in the y-axes
glacial sun
I don't think they should respect your y rotation fully but to some extent would be nice
because then you just shoot them straight down
hallow sphinx
still would better than nothing
glacial sun
Yeah I suggested it to Frozen a few times
hallow sphinx
more player control the better
charred ravine
ok i logged on and 2 of my steel charms are no where to be found
specifically the rapid fire rate one
did some charm replacements happen or did my clumsy self lose it
glacial sun
there was also a player suggestion for reworking to the "celestial gift" that you get after clearing a boss, which instead of always giving you a selection of twisteds let you choose between one of
- the existing twisted selection of 3
- two random abilities that grant effects or passives on pickup, similar to what Abnormality is but with lots of different ones
not the highest of priority but its cool and we will make it when we will make it
shy ibex
Curse of torment:
Each time a player dies (any deaths, even if not permanent), gain a random debuff between the following:
Darkness effect for x rooms or mining fatigue effect for x rooms or nausea for x rooms or periodic poison/wither effect for x rooms
Permanent -10% damage or -10% speed or +10% ability cooldowns or -10% healing
Fake graves start appearing around you as if players had died (schizophrenia effect, maybe just boss bars cuz idk how much you can customize for a single player in a group)
Mobs may randomly start targetting you (like taunt)
Slight chance for spawners to not break on break (can only happen once per spawner)
Ability choices may randomly reroll when you choose one
schizophrenia curse basically
coral saffron
i LOVEschizo
teal plank
Curse of torment:
Each time a player dies (any deaths, even if not permanent), g...
i mean
apert from the schizo stuff
its not a bad idea
but its just a more forgiving curse of death
hallow sphinx
could we some day see aspect for mainhand shields 🥺
glacial sun
I almost forgot I even had this idea but I was thinking there could be more indepth aspects/aspect upgrades like hades daedalus hammers to further specialize in your playstyle
so you could get aspect of the axe : guard and get damage after guarding or something
but I never thought about it very much in-depth
fallow plume
some other ideas
- we could remove the chance for extra ability choices prismati...
I’m skeptical about curse related util rooms as a whole because it seems like it would increases the rng factor even more
hallow sphinx
would be cool if we could enhance our aspects mid run
like you could spawn "twisted" room from dd that could enhance your aspect
also why didn't twisted rooms return to zenith 
charred ravine
I almost forgot I even had this idea but I was thinking there could be more inde...
you should think about it in-depth
glacial sun
lots of work to make 3 of them and they could just be too long to be worth it/fun in a 30 room format
shy ibex
then make endless cz!!
half wasp
i thought ascensions were made so endless wouldn't be a thing
glacial sun
they were
shy ibex
i think endless cz would be nice as soon as there are no more ideas to continue making unique ascensions
hallow sphinx
I don't really see why we couldn't have both 
shy ibex
or yeah, just have a choice to endless a certain ascension (though stuff like a18's curse system would have to be slightly changed (maybe 1 curse every 3 floor after first 3) and twisted upgrades as well
teal plank
i think endless cz would be nice as soon as there are no more ideas to continue ...
endless cz when every floor=curse
surely can go far
half wasp
what would be the point though
fallow plume
Endless cz would be cool if the a18 curses didn’t exist and you could just start on ncz then each 3 floors you fight a new ascension while being able to snowball ur abils from the start
shy ibex
what would be the point though
leaderboard
fallow plume
Having full twisted loadout against a15 vesp would be so fun
hallow sphinx
Endless cz would be cool if the a18 curses didn’t exist and you could just start...
zenith rush
shy ibex
with having stacked curses ??
with enough curses and getting 1 curse every 3 floors itd be funny
teal plank
If theres a cap to curses sure but it eould just not be playabale the second everyone gets a lust
half wasp
I don't think mixing ascensions with endless is a good idea
shy ibex
lust is getting changed
half wasp
they are completely different systems
teal plank
I don't think mixing ascensions with endless is a good idea
Yea
It will never work
A20 will likely just be the end of cz updates besides bugfixes and nerfs/buffs
hallow sphinx
what if instead we had zenith rush where you try to run from ncz to a18 with one key
fallow plume
Ok but it would be really fun if it did work and you could get like 50 leg charms in ur end lootroom
empty sentinel
agile rock
can we just not have grunts with pull on their attack btw
its kinda bad
Imo pull on attack should be a strictly elite thing
summer hazel
Curse of Morale:
Every death gives player (dying resets morale) a stack of Morale debuff,
Each stack of morale has it's own 5min duration, and reduces speed by 10%, damage dealt by 10% and increases damage taken by 15%, caps out at 4 stacks.
Additionally, while having 4 morale stacks your screen gets red tint (barrier effect) and any damage taken from behind instantly kills you.
Clearing 3 rooms without deaths or entering utility room removes all morale (cleanse before boss obviously gets excluded).
This really decays my winter
This is a curse you are meant to look out for.
What I hate in curses in zenith is that you are literally just picking permanent debuff (except inpatient), curses this way make sense on gear, but not as "option" because you automatically pick the one that fucks you up the least .
What I'd much rather see are conditional curses that you are meant to look out for and can combat effects of by being skillful or with good cooperation
shy ibex
yep
summer hazel
And now your team has to cope woth 1 less player, which is an impact
teal plank
Not really
shy ibex
or your whole team afks with you
summer hazel
Timer can be removed, my idea isn'r perfect
teal plank
I dont think someone dies 4times / 3 rooms tho
That plyyer deserves to final kill tbf
summer hazel
Depends, f1 ans f2 clear is where majority of deaths occur
teal plank
Also 5min duration=afking it out
summer hazel
F1 because you are 60% of the time without anything, and f2 because second delve mods kick in
teal plank
That is mostly false
summer hazel
Again, the timer can be just removed
summer hazel
Ok mr private party player
summer hazel
No? But you literally gave argument from side of private party player
teal plank
???
summer hazel
Majority of players use lfg
teal plank
What is the private party arguement
shy ibex
Curse of Zeus:
Standing still for over a second will get you smitten for 25% max health. You gain immunity for 10 seconds after clearing a room, or for being in the first room of each floor.
teal plank
F1 being free as hell?
charred ravine
calling all autobots to fix this unholiness
this isnt the right channel but i NEED that 1 star
teal plank
Is grav bomb even good bro
charred ravine
yeah
teal plank
Crazy
fallow plume
I think regardless of where you find your groups the majority of deaths will be in f3
Everything in f3 is just so much more dangerous
shy ibex
idk what ascension ur talking about but thats so cap
teal plank
F2 by far the most cancerous floor
shy ibex
most deaths are on f1 due to no abilities or f2 brood to skill issue party
teal plank
Brood is also just harder than vesp
shy ibex
f3 deaths are pretty rare now
fallow plume
Idk i rarely saw people dying in brood in a15 compared to vesp
teal plank
Old or new changes
quaint flicker
Brood is also just harder than vesp
naw its not, but f2 clear way worse than f3 imo
shy ibex
vesp is knowledge brood is skill 💯
quaint flicker
idk i def think a non steamrolled vesp is way harder than brood
you can just run in circles and beat brood
shy ibex
if you take your time in brood it is pretty easy but no one does that
teal plank
idk i def think a non steamrolled vesp is way harder than brood
I mean fair
charred ravine
calling all autobots to fix this unholiness
ITS SO BEAUTIFUL
(the charm updates will murder it)
coral saffron
shy ibex
the first charm setup to not have extra kitchen sink charm stats
fallow plume
I think f2 clear and f3 clear are just different types of difficulty, f3 has a lot more situations where you’re not in control like having pull mobs throw you into a pit of elites or something but f2 has a lot of high base dmg mobs
I procced Juan from full hp+4 hearts on f2 yesterday because a random cara vengeful axe mob hit me once
quaint flicker
oh yeah reelers are worse than the elites
but as long as you dont let yourself get reeled everything else is not that dangerous
charred ravine
I procced Juan from full hp+4 hearts on f2 yesterday because a random cara venge...
The albino rats genuinely 1 tap you
either hypeace or nookplayz have a clip of me getting deleted in 1 hit
rough umbra
either hypeace or nookplayz have a clip of me getting deleted in 1 hit
@rotund cape
he also has a clip of the disaster of that rectangular f3 room with 3 floors
rotund cape
I can show it when I get back from vacation. But it was the worst experience for me. Even with or with out curse of sloth
half wasp
Brood is also just harder than vesp
what class are you playing for this to be true
rotund cape
either hypeace or nookplayz have a clip of me getting deleted in 1 hit
It didn’t 1 tap you but you got two shot but it’s was really close to a 1 tap left you on like 1 hp I think
And after it killed you it went after me and hit me for like 9hp or more
fallow plume
wait dont u run with ora how do u think brood is even close to vesp difficulty
u can just use tank gear and go afk with a good shadow
charred ravine
It didn’t 1 tap you but you got two shot but it’s was really close to a 1 tap le...
it was instantaneous for me
didn't even play a damage sound
just got sent to the death room
teal plank
what class are you playing for this to be true
The desync class
rotund cape
just got sent to the death room
I do have the clip if you wanna see it when you i back though
coarse quartz
gravity bomb
cooks so hard
steel has a real "ultimate" now
ngl i really want spark of inspiration to be some sort of clearing spell for dawn to use, something like the fart wand from rc4 but i think it does too much at that point
dawn just needs ONE skill to actually cast and it could be a viable spellcaster
shy ibex
i wish casters had anything to do other than wait 10s for their cooldowns
steel and wind eating so good while frost remains the most boring thing ever (and now really bad)
glacial sun
hey you can shoot your ice lances and piercing cold through ice barrier
I think we'll be able to balance frost better now that it cannot focus so much into one trick
coarse quartz
sounds like a good plan until you realize frost will just become flame TWO
glacial sun
conceptually I think your swap requiring ice is fine, just that all of the ice sources have to be decent
coarse quartz
i mean whats the design goal here if flame is a bunch of individual skills, what can we mold frost into?
shy ibex
ya, but frost nova is really just a glorified carapace breaker
its lackluster
i think ice lance changes was a good step towards the better of frost atleast
though it makes such a tiny circle
glacial sun
I think currently you could broadly say flame is the mid/long range offensive caster while frost is closerange and defensive
perhaps it could be something like steel where it's more mechanically interesting
more ice synergy/interactive abilities
physics caster
shy ibex
casters should get another thing to do while waiting for abilities i think
i think ice lance is 6 second so that leaves room for a lot of afking
maiden flare
casters should get another thing to do while waiting for abilities i think
ice barriering your teammates and suffocating them
shy ibex
cuz ice lance hits like two mobs at best
maiden flare
against dreadlings its very nice
red wyvern
so what if Avalanche was converted to a low CD ability close to Ice Lance that dealt less damage
fallow plume
dawn just needs ONE skill to actually cast and it could be a viable spellcaster
idt dawn needs any more clear abil tbh, lbottle with a slight dmg buff would be fine
red wyvern
however you can use it a lot more and having more ice placing abilities would be beneficial
shy ibex
i think it would be frost nova instead harambee
red wyvern
really should convert Zenith casters from "I press one spell to end all life" to "I will use my many spells to play the game"
shy ibex
avalanche is pretty cool but nova makes it braindead
red wyvern
"Oh no but now Casters are slow in the clear" good this is supposed to be a 4 player team game
not HSB Floor 7 where everyone solo clears with Hyperions
would play HSB if I wanted that
shy ibex
i would love player to player synergy
red wyvern
Avalanche is kinda showing its age now
glacial sun
I wish multihit/lingering abilities did not have the caveat of being absurdly overpowered due to delve mobs existing so you could make Cooler Abilities
fallow plume
oh yeah, does icebreaker debuff count vulnerability?
glacial sun
crosstree synergy is unlikely to be something inherently part of an ability
fallow plume
or i should say is it supposed to
because it doesnt, i tested on a dummy yesterday and my dmg was exactly the same with rare and leg icebreaker
empty sentinel
oh yeah, does icebreaker debuff count vulnerability?
Yes
red wyvern
I wish multihit/lingering abilities did not have the caveat of being absurdly ov...
you can have multihits that are balanced, Zenith just has the problem of charms accelerating magic abilities into nuclear bombs
fallow plume
i think its bugged then
shy ibex
i think your first tree in the 4 on top should be your "main tree"
then you can have synergy
red wyvern
Illuminate is a very reasonable ability for how it reads on paper
coarse quartz
more ice synergy/interactive abilities
idea i know a lot of people already had was to have re-application of ice increase the "quality" of the ice and avalanche would scale its damage with that, but it brings up the issue of needing every ability to work which is BAD
empty sentinel
Yup, checked and it is bugged
glacial sun
steel screwdriver synergy
coarse quartz
steel synergizes with everything cuz it can lowkey be an independant tree lol
empty sentinel
Dawn / wind and earth / shadow personally
coarse quartz
i dont even care what my side trees are
empty sentinel
Thundercloud form flight + lightning bottles is fire
red wyvern
Steelsage is the best at being independent yea
mental sentinel
Iron Grip shadow is so peak...
coarse quartz
wait u can cast other things from thundercloud flight? it just gets bette rand better
red wyvern
Shadow cries without multiple supplementing trees
shy ibex
next week oracore is gonna have #1 thundercloud charms
fallow plume
dawn/fire/wind is such a fun combo
shy ibex
gonna cook the craziest charm setup ever
coarse quartz
only fun steel combo is chaos dagger with volley cuz it lets me do such clean kills
fallow plume
lmao
red wyvern
Thundercloud Form's only downside is activating too many spawners when you aren't preparing to engage them at the moment
shy ibex
idk what abilities go with thundercloud though other than lbottle
fallow plume
theres gonna be like 20 max thundercloud setups that exist next week
shy ibex
projectile triggered stuff?
pyroblast fireball rune flame setup with thundercloud on top
red wyvern
idk what abilities go with thundercloud though other than lbottle
Fireball can be dropped into scenarios, Igneous Rune can do similar
coarse quartz
ngl back to the frost topic what if frost acted as this "domain" class that gets much stronger while standing on ice? literally just making frozen domain the whole class
shy ibex
i imagine a flame main with meteor charms that would just switch off
delicate timber
hey you can shoot your ice lances and piercing cold through ice barrier
NONE of this matters on high A thanks to the abil cap
red wyvern
High ascension Zenith moment
coarse quartz
??
delicate timber
nova and ava are locked in, you need 1 flexible slot just in case of bad RNG so that leaves you with one spare abil
coarse quartz
what abil cap
red wyvern
(the game is begging you not to play)
shy ibex
ngl back to the frost topic what if frost acted as this "domain" class that gets...
avalanche gets transformed into domain expansion
coarse quartz
avalanche gets transformed into domain expansion
fr though
delicate timber
maybe hot take but the abil cap should be raised to 5
shy ibex
actually then it could be a lingering class but then nicknon said it wasnt good
coarse quartz
a swap that makes an area around me my "domain" and im stronger in every way in it would be way more ultimate feeling then what avalanche is
shy ibex
the bigger your domain is, the more damage you deal
fallow plume
Yup, checked and it is bugged
should i bug report it or is it an easy fix
coarse quartz
the bigger your domain is, the more damage you deal
splatoon fr
summer hazel
Can we please remove the insane damage tax on ice abilities related to avalanche and make ice more about spaming ice with good aoe magic abilities instead of focusing entirely around one specific long cooldown ability
fallow plume
also how bugged is it, is the ice damage aspect of it also broken
coarse quartz
"For every ice block you currently have placed by you, gain 1% ability damage."
delicate timber
oh also the need frost combos ability is worse then the old one (flames new one is pretty good though because of course it is)
empty sentinel
should i bug report it or is it an easy fix
Ez fix
delicate timber
flame try to have a single bad abitily challenge
coarse quartz
ok but flame is just well designed now
summer hazel
It's just melee fireball
delicate timber
melee freeball where as before you had nothing. Its a solid buff to DD flame (does not matter for zenith because you can't take combos on any tree, expect shadow)
summer hazel
Either way pls make ice cool, thanks
coarse quartz
"For every ice block you currently have placed by you, gain 1% ability damage."
would actually be interesting to have this ngl, you would have to move away from ice you currently have placed to make more in other un-applied areas
mental sentinel
Frost spawner break stock skyrockets
red wyvern
Frost spawner break stock skyrockets
finally, good spawner break
summer hazel
Would also make a damage cap in boss though
coarse quartz
+ice duration could actually cook
coarse quartz
Would also make a damage cap in boss though
i mean that could just be an intentional limitation
red wyvern
imo move Permafrost's passive ice mechanics onto a new passive and buff Permafrost
summer hazel
And be horribly in f1 bosses just because they can block break and arena has fucked up bedrocking
red wyvern
Ice is the only tree with 2 passives
delicate timber
tbh +ice dura already is pretty decent, its just that its the most expendable stat so people sacrifice it
with + ice dura you can buff up your disco ball using frost nova
summer hazel
Because it doesn't matter
You do ava + nova
Theres no reason to build anything else, that's why it needs to change
delicate timber
stale meta is not as big as a problem of having any good abils anymore imo
frost might be worse then dawn now and thats saying a lot.
coarse quartz
nah bro
avalanche reworked to
Domain Expansion: Yeti's Den; Place ice blocks in a 40 block radius around you
maiden flare
thats just nova
coarse quartz
shut u
shy ibex
how about it expands every ice block by 2
and then deals avalanche damage on the blocks
shy ibex
and the blocks also get extra lifetime
maiden flare
and then deals avalanche damage on the blocks
🔥🖋️
delicate timber
currently frost has to much stock put into icebreaker as well. Icebreaker does so much for you and all of the abilities get their damage taxed because of ice breaker existing.
coarse quartz
wait until bro finds out about sharpshooter
wait until bro finds out about advancing shadows
shy ibex
wait until bro finds out every class is passive locked 🔥
delicate timber
ok but other classes don't get taxed for having damage passives
frosts passive is better then flames, but it also comes with so much tax
coarse quartz
u sure
shy ibex
frozen domain is pretty peak
delicate timber
frosts passive is better then flames, but it also comes with so much tax
one of the many reasons why flame is more consistent
red wyvern
Zenith Shadow try to deal any damage without AS challenge
empty sentinel
frozen domain is pretty peak
What domain....
red wyvern
What domain....
that's gon-
hollow wagon
Avalanache: All placed ice within x blocks has snow fall on it extending the duration of the ice to x seconds causing enemies to take damage over time and slowed by x% while standing on it
red wyvern
that's gonna leave a-
summer hazel
What if
Swap Hands to instantly create ice around you in 3blocks radius, additionaly for next X seconds any mob that is above or on ice will take x magic damage.
I love what color splash does and with a small tweak it would do very nicely
And then you realise it would still be the focus of builds, so no bad idea
it would also make ice actually go into ice spam to cover as much area as possible i am wrong
coarse quartz
for my vision frost would need an overhaul tho
summer hazel
Nah I think it just needs damage upgrades and to move away from avalanche as it exists
coarse quartz
ava rework + buffs to everything else sounds liek a good move
summer hazel
It's cool and creative class held back by one stupid design mistake