👮ron-discussion

[bright valley]

Yes. LTL weapons have a looser RoE.

[covert thicket]

yes thats how i normaly do it

[ripe hazel]

If you're in an active firefight and accidentally hit a surrendering suspect with a beanbag you get some leniency

[hardy plinth]

Sorry I'm not sure what those things mean

[stone stump]

you can shoot first with a lethal weapon without yelling beforehand and it's fine too tho?

[willow vector]

Another thing, wedging doors seem to break doors now. Not sure if it was like this post-hotfix but when you wedge double doors, one of the doors ends up permanently jammed.

[ripe hazel]

Unless they shot at you first, no.

[bright valley]

LTL = Less Than Lethal
RoE = Rules of Engagement

[ripe hazel]

Though if you're in extreme CQC to the point where your gun could make contact with the suspect, you CAN shoot first

[stone stump]

it worked like that for years, even back when the RoE wasn't so loose. as long as they're a threat, you can shoot. no need for yelling

[hardy plinth]

So you mean you can shoot an unsuspecting enemy with a beanbag and it won't be unauthorised?

[bright valley]

Sort of. I've noticed that a gun held up in a firing position or in the process of being brought up to one seems to count as intent to harm, which permits lethal force.

[ripe hazel]

It's more like. You know how you get unauthorized use of force when shooting a guy frozen in place when you tell them to drop their gun? You don't get that with the beanbag.

[stone stump]

yeah, but also doing that with lethal weapon doesn't violate RoE half of the time (that's a bug tho)

[bright valley]

Exactly this, but lay off if they drop the gun.

[stone stump]

RoE is annoying anyways since suspects don't really have "weapon drawing" animation anymore. they just shoot you in 1 picosecond

so it's less about following "procedures" and more about following the game jankiness

[bright valley]

Once all the suspects get stressed enough they start getting super aggressive with ridiculous response times.

[stone stump]

or at least that's my experience with head-to-head encounters...

[tawny scroll]

“pUt yO hAnDs uP” x5
“doWn oN yOuR kNeEs”x10
“dRoP tHe wEaPoN”x10^8

suspects:

[stone stump]

or fake surrendering

[stone bay]

Which is why my strat is two calls for compliance, then I engage with the Failure Drill

[bright valley]

I've had some luck experimenting with singleplayer playthroughs where I try to keep the suspects' stress down, picking open doors and flooding into rooms to taser and yell at isolated suspects, no nades or anything. You'd be surprised how many suspects give you time by hesitating with their gun held firmly at their waist. Except, once any actual gunshots are fired everything kind of goes to shit for the rest of the mission.

[tawny scroll]

suspects: 😔🙌🏽
S I K E

[bright valley]

There was a point when I was trying to use the Failure Drill myself, but I think the extra time it takes to line up the third shot gets me killed.

[stone bay]

Which is why I use AP rounds.

[bright valley]

I mostly just hammer it on center mass until I'm not under fire anymore. Not out of control mag-dumping, but nothing complicated either.

[hardy plinth]

What if I accidentally drop my pepper spray out of my pocket and as I'm grabbing it I press the button and it shoots in the eyes of the suspect purely by accident

[bright valley]

Inconsequential, 1.0 pepper spray is fucking worthless lol

[vestal mauve]

if ur gonna go nonlethal use the tazer

[hardy plinth]

I just had it break last time

I don't trust any of the non lethals besides the beanbag gun anymore

[stone stump]

i wouldn't just because how stupidly unintuitive it is to equip it smh

[vestal mauve]

yeah like
why cant i use it with the shield????

[stone stump]

because if you need a shield you wouldn't use a taser

it only makes sense in ron so you can cheese levels

[bright valley]

Up until you get that inevitable crack right in the middle of the window.

[hazy topaz]

first greased palms attempt turned into a movie shootout

second did as well

[bright valley]

Greased Palms'll do that.

[hazy topaz]

yea i decided to take a little break

[vestal mauve]

greased palms turned me into the Joker fr fr

[crude prism]

35 years without an S rank... think about what that does to a man...

[crystal sierra]

Anyone managed to finish Elephant on S difficulty ? I can't do it overall, they always shoot civilians in like first 30 seconds of gameplay

Immidetly when i enter inside building, they already are firing bullets

[stone stump]

pretty sure that's not possible in vanilla

[crystal sierra]

Pretty much possible, tried with both Mod and vanilla, i literary can't do that. There is ALWAYS at least 1 civ dead

[stone stump]

iirc they start shooting civs after 3 minutes

[crude prism]

There's a timer they are "supposed" to adhere to, I believe it was originally 3 minutes, but is currently only 2 (120 seconds)

After making contact with players however, I believe they can disengage and shoot at whim, so it's possible that they're seeing you on spawn or something 🤷

[stone stump]

so basically L4z0 is very unlucky

[junior depot]

Just bought Ready or Not - anything I should know as a complete beginner?

[tulip spade]

anybody got a photo of the supporter FISA gear? curious to see how it looks

[crude prism]

Do the tutorial!

[crystal sierra]

I'm literary considering installing mod that makes civs immortal, but how lucky i'm they made headshots to deal like 1000000 damage / instant dead regardless, lol

[tulip spade]

check your fire, not everybody is a bad guy, but not everybody is a good guy, try and get as many as you can out alive.

[crystal sierra]

It's in the open truck behind post office outside

[junior depot]

how do I know if they are a bad guy before they just shoot me?

[crystal sierra]

Civilians will usually surrender immidetly when you yell, suspects are better then spec ops and will shoot at you immidetly

[tulip spade]

watch their movements closely, if they’re pointing a gun in your face then yeah, probably a good idea to return fire, if they’re stepping back and looking around, you can de escalate, same goes for “unarmed”, some will act unarmed and then reach for a gun, sometimes they’re reaching for a phone though…

[junior depot]

Cheers - Are certain levels harder than others? Is there a difficulty setting?

[tulip spade]

no difficulty, i reccomend throwing the ROE out the window on suspects in Ides of March, former veterans fighting against the government don’t tend to be too compliant.

you can take them alive though, but you gotta take em by surprise if you want to

speed and precision should be your main focus

do note there is non lethal options for you and your team, beanbag guns, pepperballs, cs gas, etc

cs gas is great personally

[stone stump]

i would say that you don't need speed, you just need to be as fast as needed

[tulip spade]

👆

[vestal mauve]

clear from the threshold if you can

dont just waltz into a hostile room

[stone stump]

yeah, stay in cover and don't run blindly into unsafe spaces

[tulip spade]

beware of flimsy cover (wooden walls, drywall, windows, etc)

always pie rooms before going in

[stone stump]

still better than no cover at all tbh, even if the ai tends to see you through the cracks (and you can't see them)

[tulip spade]

yeah, flashlights help with that

[stone stump]

or use mirror (it works everywhere, not just under the door)

[tulip spade]

yeah, that too

[stone bay]

Throwing ROE out the window is generally a good idea in this game

[stone stump]

real tactics work fairly well too, but for best results you really have to learn the ai patterns and basically unconsciously cheese them

[stone stump]

i mean not really. you only shoot people who are a direct threat to you or others (having a gun that's not pointing anywhere but ground is not really being a threat)

[tulip spade]

another thing is never underestimate your ai teammates, they can put in some good work aswell

[stone stump]

but in practice i can see where it might come from. most of the time the suspect is already a threat even though you just noticed them

which is classic broken ai behavior in ron

[tulip spade]

honestly, RoN will be basically perfect once ai is tweaked + fixed

[stone stump]

or be the biggest morons you've ever witnessed

[ivory kiln]

yeh

it has a lot of potential

[tulip spade]

i feel like they’re mapped better on some maps than others

[stone stump]

definitely more enjoyable, but the game still lacks a lot of polishing and details

[stone stump]

either way you really need to babysit them

[cerulean merlin]

what's that AI like atm, still aimbot-ey or actual human like now(fair)?

[stone stump]

the most cracked they have ever been

[tulip spade]

i wish there was a option to appoint a “temporary team leader” or something, for example having red team clear out one side of the map on their own while you and blue go and do your thing

[tulip spade]

it’s fine, only really aimbot-y on Ides and Sinuous

[cerulean merlin]

to the point where you'll need mods to de-crackify them?

[tulip spade]

optional, personal preference really

[stone stump]

if you don't want to go against unfair ai then yeah, you need some mods

reaction time is the biggest issue with them as of now imo

the rest you can somewhat counter

[tulip spade]

👆

the 0.1 sec react time is honestly absurd

[random mauve]

What do I have to do to trigger the "search and secure" command option instead of just "search room"?

[tulip spade]

i don’t want them to have the react time of hellen keller, but they shouldn’t be T-800 either

[stone stump]

bring order to chaos i think

[tulip spade]

look at the floor, MMB, 6

[random mauve]

Done that, wasn't it.

I have it available now but I'm not sure how I got there.

[stone stump]

i have no problem with the game being difficult on purpose, but ehh... ron really doesn't have that "difficulty" people (i would imagine) want

[tulip spade]

for me i just aim near the floor and it triggers

[tulip spade]

yeah, same here, but i heard somewhere they intentionally gave the ai inhuman reaction times just to add difficulty

which is…nah

[stone stump]

i would much rather see them hide in the craziest spots to surprise me rather than just running while shooting with perfect precision and offing me in 0.1s

[tulip spade]

yeah, i’d rather fight solid snake than the typical CSGO comp player

[stone stump]

yeah exactly, going against bunch of solid snakes would be so much cooler

[tulip spade]

i wish the suspects hid more, i check the beds and closets every time and not once have i seen one hiding

[stone stump]

even if the map would be full of cardboard boxes lmao

[native rune]

Same, ends of the earth has a closet in every room but I have never witness anyone hide there, or under the beds

[stone stump]

remember the times when suspects used to pee or have a cig? yeah...

[tulip spade]

the secret service is also supposed to hide under the piano on Sins, because the SWAT ai searches under it

[tulip spade]

i miss the ambient ai features, they kinda just stand around waiting to get arrested now, sucks

i do like that on Ides they actually cover different sides of the hotel on patrol routes

[native rune]

Adam lobotomized the ai and 1.0 cracked them again

[tulip spade]

1.0 gave us some banger OSTs though

TYCA got me jammin

[crude prism]

Funne pendulum goes weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[stone stump]

sins of the father soundtrack is kinda goofy

[earnest wolf]

We need more mission specific TOC lines. I wish he didn't tell me that 'negotiations have broken down' with the guys we're about to surprise raid.

It's like cmon TOC get with the program

[stone stump]

you should know that there isn't a thing called surprise raid. these mfs hear you from 3km away

[earnest wolf]

Not me bro I'm like a shadow in the night

with my LVAR only team

[stone stump]

i hope you know that suppressed guns aren't really quiet

[bright valley]

There isn't much of one. Just that ghostly singing that goes for like 5 seconds and the occasional droning cello. Most of the time all I hear is rain until I get to the theater or the room playing the SSB.

[earnest wolf]

They are if you press the trigger gently

[stone stump]

it's just eerie for the sake of being eerie

[crude prism]

They do impact gameplay tho, if only a little 🤷

[earnest wolf]

silenced .45 should be pretty quiet. mp5SD if they add it too

or just add subsonic ammo

[stone stump]

as a friend-foe identification or some other actual gameplay stuff?

[tulip spade]

ooooOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOoooooooOOOOOO

[earnest wolf]

lol

[bright valley]

I don't hate the visual aesthetic of the map, but I do wish the music/ambience was a little less on the nose. Maybe some classical choir or opera to lean more into the rich vintage decor of the place.

[crude prism]

FF identification as a 'meta' thing, and suspect stress as an actual gameplay change

[stone stump]

thank god i have aphantasia so i can't randomly "hear" this sound in my head

[tulip spade]

yeah, distant, foggy, classical music would be nice

[bright valley]

Then again, maybe I just played too much Hitman :P

[tulip spade]

something like the initial reveal trailer music maybe

[stone stump]

i would imagine they stress less?

[bright valley]

Bingo

[stone stump]

i mean it's not that obvious in ron

[bright valley]

Certainly not, but your guess was correct.

[stone stump]

[bright valley]

[tulip spade]

i remember once i walked into a room, suspect on the ground, head blown open, i was wondering why there was a dead suspect there, i hadn’t even reached the room yet, until i saw the shotgun on the ground next to him, crazy experience

[stone stump]

after all, ron has some crazy perfectly reasonable features like faking being dead but not faking being incapacitated

[bright valley]

[stone stump]

i wonder if it's ever going to be fixed

[tulip spade]

feigning injury would actually be pretty neat to get you to lower your guard, suspect on the ground, groaning in pain in the incap anim, suddenly stands up while you’re not looking at pulls a glock on you

[winged jolt]

chemlight out

[tulip spade]

dropping chemlight dropping chemlight chemlight out DROP THE WEAPON DROP THE- DROP THE WEAPON- DROP- BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG TOC, we got a dead suspect here.

[ivory kiln]

yeh

the port hokkan one caught me off guard

[stone stump]

i mean i mostly imagined for them to be able to do both

[bright valley]

here's a chemlight to brighten your day ya fuckin' loser

[stone stump]

instructions unclear, chemlight stuck...

[bright valley]

[ivory kiln]

judge should talk to arrested suspects

have a little convo

[stone stump]

[bright valley]

[tired kestrel]

Deploying a chemlight

[stone stump]

wouldn't end well given how it went last time with the i don't even remember how many k's of voice lines

[tulip spade]

what is yalls favorite arrest anim, mines the one where you smack the back of their head like “stop being a shithead”, gets a little laugh of out me everytime

[tired kestrel]

the head slap one 100%

[ivory kiln]

what?

[stone stump]

they said somewhere we gonna get like shit ton of voice lines (we didn't)

[ivory kiln]

sad

[stone stump]

swat ai is supposed to comment their surrounding and shit too

[tulip spade]

they do

i hear it a lot

[crude prism]

they def do

[ivory kiln]

they do

on voll's house

the spider

[bright valley]

It's not frequent but it's there.

[ivory kiln]

you just don't hear em

[stone stump]

shouldn't have sent it without ending my sentence, my bad

[tulip spade]

they do on around 99% of maps

on lethal obsession they say stuff like “you think this guy might be onto something?”

[stone stump]

they are there, it just doesn't feel as common as it seemed to be from the swat devlog

[ivory kiln]

i don't hear em often

[tulip spade]

must be yall, i hear it all the time so, idk

[ivory kiln]

what's a faction you guys wanna see

[bright valley]

imagine seeing this and thinking oh yeah i think i'll go in there

[ivory kiln]

imagine hearing this for 100th time

i doesn't even make sense

[bright valley]

nothing like a cheeseburger from a diner

[umbral oar]

needs more rgb!

[tulip spade]

MLO

[ivory kiln]

who?

[tulip spade]

they had a arg for them for a bit, they were cool #🪹the-sepulchre-arg

[bright valley]

Mariposa Lily Organization

[tulip spade]

spooky ass deep state shit

[tulip spade]

👆

they were like TLB but a lot more spooky n shit

[ivory kiln]

i wanna see the cartel

[tulip spade]

they got like 3 maps do they not?

[ivory kiln]

postal office and border

but those are gang members

not cartel guys

[tulip spade]

nah, that’s cartel

[earnest wolf]

AAAAAARRRHGH so close to finishing hide and seek

[ivory kiln]

los locos del pacificos is their name

[earnest wolf]

An absolute bastard hiding in a container shot me in the face 😢

[tulip spade]

FUUUCK rip

[earnest wolf]

thanks bro

[ivory kiln]

actually wait i wanna see some albanian mobsters

[shadow fern]

Just unlcoked "elephant"

phew alright

[ivory kiln]

nice

for elephant you need speed surprise and violence of action

[stone bay]

That, and a decent pair of headphones to track the bomb beeps.

[ivory kiln]

ehhhh you can find them ez

[pine stream]

suspects can see your flashlight right?

[crude prism]

They make an audio call as if they can, but they won't actually be alerted by it

[pine stream]

wicked thanks

[vestal mauve]

ok so
I've heard a lot about "people are trying to cancel RoN because of the school shooter level!" but i've never seen this happen
does anyone have a link to an article or anything that supports this? not randos on twitter, because you can find any dumbo opinion on twitter

[stark hollow]

kotaku article

[crude prism]

Some people claim otherwise, but I've still never got a suspect to alert off a flashlight, mileage may vary 🤷

[vestal mauve]

lol baleeted

[ivory kiln]

We need a mission related to the dallas ambush

[twin ether]

is the RON sound designer radiohead fan by any chance because this song reminds me alot of some RON tracks https://open.spotify.com/track/5Qv2Nby1xTr9pQyjkrc94J?si=9fa8c7e4949a4cbe

[misty orbit]

whats the benefit of using smgs over rifles?

[dense quest]

keeping suspects alive/incapacitated and less collateral damage

but generally not much point in running them

[outer tusk]

when will ron get optimized

[twin ether]

theire cool

[thorny warren]

did the car dealership one, it was so much easier than neon tbh, anyone disagree?

[crude prism]

The outside areas on dealership can be pretty tough because you can get a lot of suspects in areas with poor visibility/inadequate cover but the insides of the buildings are manageable

[thorny warren]

maybe i just got lucky but i did it so much faster than neon

i think i'll need a rifle for the next level though

[crude prism]

I'd probably say dealership is easier than Neon, even with a few awkward spots

[stark hollow]

i disagree but that might just be because i had a lot of practise on neon before 1.0

whereas the dealer overhaul did me over a couple times

[crude prism]

Similar to learning any new map tbh, you don't know the vulnerable spots until you experience them

[hazy token]

I recall that suspects used to set up ambushes or hide when they saw your flashlight, haven’t really noticed it lately though

[thorny warren]

is the compound like the second last level? i sense the end approaching, and ik the final showdown is the port one

[tight frigate]

honestly neon is probably easier because it’s a smaller map

[tight frigate]

pretty close but no

[crude prism]

Dealership -> Cherryessa Farm -> Hospital -> Port

[thorny warren]

totally forgot there was a hospital map...

[crude prism]

The last 3 are all real fun

Definitely not agonizing in their own ways

[thorny warren]

i usually play with submachine guns because rifles are a bit bulky, i cant react as fast, and the firepower of submachine guns was enough so far

also who the hell uses that long scope?

[crude prism]

You're gonna feel the pain using SMGs on Port. The damage falloff goes up to like -70% at range

[ivory kiln]

that's why 416 is goated

[crude prism]

Anyone using the 4x or 12x are doing so because "I like it" and not for any practical reason

[tough spire]

The 4x is nice on some maps ngl

Would sure be great if it had the paddle zoom, though. The irons on top are fine but it's clearly an Elcan for goodness sake

[crude prism]

If only the scopes actually shot properly instead of hitting high and to the left of the reticle

Also yes, the lack of the zoom toggle is dumb.

[bright valley]

I haven't really touched the zoom scopes since 1.0 dropped, but I used to sometimes run a loadout that had a scoped SA-58 with a laser sight along with the ballistic shield. I figured between laser-assisted hipfire and the shield I'd have enough close-range options to get by when I wasn't able to take advantage of the scope.

[crude prism]

Then you learn that both the scope reticle is misaligned and that the laser is misaligned when canting and your brain just starts to hurt

[bright valley]

I never noticed at the time TBH.

[crude prism]

Some knowledge is cursed 🥲

[bright valley]

I guess I just always aimed center mass so I wound up hitting them anyways.

[crude prism]

proper behavior

bro is gaming appropriately

[ivory kiln]

yeah i learned how to aim properly to shoot them in the head

though i still prefer to go for center mass

[stone stump]

you die faster and you reload more often i guess?

[crude prism]

[stone stump]

416 is so goated you're lowkey better with a SMG

[ivory kiln]

nope

i can't be separated from my 416

[stone stump]

you can use whatever you want, but lying about the gun being goated is ehh

i mean the only real reason to use it is how it looks

[ivory kiln]

same

but it's still s tier

the guy who made the video ain't lying

[stone stump]

maybe on a german scale

it's like 3rd worst rifle you can use

[ivory kiln]

wrong

[foggy zinc]

btw niventill is that Lua code in your pfp or am I wrong

[stone stump]

yeah

[foggy zinc]

wild

also 416 is pretty ight but I like the ARWC and MK18 over it

SA 58 is also just hella fun by default lel

[stone stump]

for me it's either ARN-180 or LVAR

the latter looks better so that's what i'm using

[ivory kiln]

nothing you say can convince me otherwise

[stone stump]

i'm not really trying to convince you...

[tight frigate]

416 is automatically the best rifle because it’s the coolest rifle

[ivory kiln]

agreed

finally i found someone who understands

[stone stump]

freedom is freedom so everyone can have their opinion even if it couldn't be more wrong

[ivory kiln]

and with freedom i have the rights to use a gun

[bright valley]

[tawny scroll]

🫵🏽🤨 mp5 gang

[prime wing]

theres 0 reason to use an smg

unless you want to die

[stone stump]

you don't see a based mod very often...

[bright valley]

MP5A2 flashlight for the added random crit chance

[ivory kiln]

favorite rifle?

[dense quest]

ARWC is absolutely terrible

it has the recoil of an SA58 almost while not even being blackout

[prime wing]

i would reference the spreadsheet

some rifles are just bad for no reason

otherwise they are all the same

some are just slightly worse

[dense quest]

MK18 is too wobbly

[ivory kiln]

i used to love the m4a1

but now 416 is my favorite

[dense quest]

ARN and MCX are the best guns by far tbh (and LVAR if you're not using brakes)

[foggy zinc]

guh

either you can't control recoil or hate 5.56

[misty orbit]

Thanks for the info yall

[foggy zinc]

ARWC is totally fine provided you're mildly competent with clicking heads and shooting first

[misty orbit]

Whats the overall best rifle if you had to use just 1 for every mission in the game?

[foggy zinc]

MCX or MK18 probably

[dense quest]

but why would I use a gun with way worse recoil and also worse bullets?

other than showing off that I'm good at controlling recoil

also I don't hate 5.56, F90 and G36 are great

[tight frigate]

i’m betraying my HK loyalty but SA58 with laser, canted and semi auto

and a shit ton of mags

[foggy zinc]

don't forget the better laser mod

[dense quest]

ARN because it's also short

[misty orbit]

Awesome

Thanks yall

[foggy zinc]

don't forget shotguns are a thing too

[dense quest]

yeah, I don't like shotguns so I have no opinion on which ones are best

[true panther]

ARN-180 using JHP will incap the majority of suspects in 2-3 shots. You do lose out on material penetration but shooting through walls is always iffy IMO

[dense quest]

(not disliking them in a sense of performance, I just like rifles way more)

[tight frigate]

if i had to choose i’d say the rem 870 but the m1014 is probably meta

[true panther]

IIRC JHP .300 is okay up until L4 armor and L4 is only on 2 or 3 maps right?

[bright valley]

Objectively, probably any of the semi-automatics, but the pump actions have cool factor.

[foggy zinc]

supernova has less recoil than the 870, as for semi-auto you can use either the 1301 or M4 imo

benelli m4 is just more fun tho

[frail quartz]

Probably the LVAR since it
1 - Has the shortest suppressed length of all the rifles
2 - Has decent recoil
3 - Is an MCX so +200 coolness points

[bright valley]

Recoil is kind of meaningless if you don't have any fire rate.

[frail quartz]

+uses .300 blackout which is really good as well, my bad

[frail quartz]

Semi-auto gang 🤝

[foggy zinc]

my only issue with the LVAR is literally the sound of it

[ivory kiln]

nice to see a semi auto user

[frail quartz]

Yeah, I have to agree that it sounds a bit plasticy compared to the other weapons

[foggy zinc]

other than that its a great gun

[frail quartz]

I've gotten used to it overtime though

[foggy zinc]

puts holes in people

[dense quest]

elephant is fully L4, neon only has 1 suspect with L4 (I'm assuming the bomb vest) and sins of the father is only a few L4

[foggy zinc]

btw what sidearms do ya'll run lol

[dense quest]

so except elephant you can get away with using JHP in all maps tbh

[frail quartz]

Suspects on sins of the father have L4 torso flesh

[dense quest]

currently USP cuz I like the look of it

[crude prism]

You reminded me to update that. It's specifically Qadamah, the guy u gotta arrest

[foggy zinc]

i've been rocking the G19 with a G17 mod

[frail quartz]

The one that increases the capacity to 19 rounds?

I use that one too

[bright valley]

G19 or USP purely out of spite for the 5-7's dominance in the meta.

[foggy zinc]

nope still normal mag cap

[frail quartz]

Oh, bwomp

[ivory kiln]

how do you know who's lvl 4

[crude prism]

rock hard abs win again

[foggy zinc]

unless the one by ballistique doesn't increase it lel

[stone stump]

glock is a real one

[frail quartz]

It doesn't

[bright valley]

Though if I'm running a shield I cave and go 5-7

[dense quest]

oh I see, how kind of them to give him level 4 so he doesn't die (it's still absolutely bs that you have to arrest a fully automatic rifle wielding terrorist)

[foggy zinc]

run the TLE for maximum style points

forget the python

[dense quest]

check efferrari's doc, it's pinned in this chat

[bright valley]

I can't bring myself to shoot myself in the foot that hard, as cool as the TLE is.

If it gave two mags per slot, I'd 100% be willing to run it

[foggy zinc]

true lel

[frail quartz]

The FiveSeven is still my favorite handgun, but I've been using the G17 recently as apart of my "Underfunded PD using hand-me-down equipment" aesthetic for MuH rEaLiSm

[ivory kiln]

i don't even use handguns

[crude prism]

USP best handgun because s e x y

[dense quest]

I agree

[frail quartz]

I mean, the entire point is that the 1911 is NOT ammo efficient, isn't it?

[dense quest]

imagine how dire it'd be if a PD can't afford their SWAT teams something better than a glock

[foggy zinc]

i just like how Los Suenos saw their current situation and came to the conclusion that they should arm 5 SWAT members with the most advanced military equipment around to fight the local 213 park home crackheads law abiding citizens

[frail quartz]

Amurica, amirite?

[stone stump]

are glocks really that cheap? or maybe they just produce them in the us

[frail quartz]

I never said glocks were cheap, I'm just saying 5.7 is expensive

[ivory kiln]

what happened to the other swat officers

[dense quest]

glocks are relatively cheap compared to a fiveseven and even USP I'd imagine

[ivory kiln]

did the crackheads kill them all

[crude prism]

What's what you said? Import P90s, F90s, and source some SA-58s?

Of course, I love spending 100% of our budget in an afternoon

[frail quartz]

They realized Los Suenos was a lost cause and hauled ass out of there

[stone stump]

i was referring to the "underfunded PD"

[crude prism]

Inb4 we get the sig-spear soon

[true panther]

5 FN P90s, 5 FN Five-Sevens and several hundred rounds of armor-piercing 5.7mm ammunition for them, 5 M320 grenade launchers, 5 full armor kits with 10 ceramic plates

These viet gunrunners have no idea what's coming to em

[dense quest]

also lore wise LSPD is supposed to be low resources but somehow have that arsenal of weapons 💀

[frail quartz]

Regardless of our opinons on how fitting the equipment in the game is, it feels a bit too late now to remove half of them for the sake of lore accuracy

[crude prism]

back to wooden pump shotgun and MPL time

[bright valley]

Understaffed perhaps but certainly not underfunded.

[stone stump]

the lore is already a time paradox as is so i don't think it can get much worse

[frail quartz]

Yeah, I'm still stuck between using my underfunded arsenal and going full tacti-cool for the rest of the game

[dense quest]

true LOL

the timeline makes no sense

[frail quartz]

I can probably just reason that the equipment is funded/bought by the officers themselves

[foggy zinc]

it appears they do based off the clips over the internet

[frail quartz]

The GPNVGs are probably a separate case

[foggy zinc]

"Yeah, I bought my LVAW, G17, 4 9-bangers, CS Gas, and plates."

[stone stump]

so for lore reasons i should equip gpvngs only after completing twisted nerve ykyk?

[foggy zinc]

TRUE

and disable surefire flashlights if you run it and use the default ones

cuz we can't afford good flashlights out here

lore accurate amirite?

[stone stump]

i only run laser so i'm fine i think?

[foggy zinc]

no lasers are too advanced out here

gotta be running that dinky aaaa flashlight

[ebon tree]

Heyo, is there a way to set my flashlight/laser to "hold" instead of toggle? I can't find an option for it, and it would be nice

[ivory kiln]

nah i think the crackheads killed em

[foggy zinc]

there might be a mod for that or there is a setting for it and you didn't see it

[crude prism]

Where's the mod that makes it so your character holds up their phone light and one-hands the weapons

[foggy zinc]

LMAO

213 park homes behaviour

[stone stump]

in their mouth you mean?

[foggy zinc]

watdahek

[ebon tree]

I'll see if there's a mod, the settings page doesn't appear to have an option for it

[crude prism]

Oh yeah right. Phone with both hands, and then hold the gun in your mouth and work it with your tongue

[stone stump]

yeah that's exactly what i meant

[native rune]

I just rebound my flashlight laser key to be closer to my WASD hand

[hushed anvil]

Hey, haven't played the game since the 1.0 launch and haven't been on this server in a while, is the ARG still relevant?

[native rune]

Relevant as in?

[hushed anvil]

to the plot

is there still a cult about

or did that get dropped

[native rune]

It only majorly appears in the last portion of the last mission and then the game ends so

[hushed anvil]

ahh right, couldn't get past brisa cove to see that lmao

[foggy zinc]

guh? where exactly, or is there just a tease

tbh i played port in multiplayer and had to rush it super hard cuz we were dying all over the place lel

never got to explore the map

[native rune]

You walk into an auction house for people, there are laptops where people on webcams watch, and then they leave the video chat when you approach

So like the only real story element is in the last mission, the only time where conflict of interest is explored and your character has any emotion

[foggy zinc]

speaking of the last mission, its by far the coolest of all of them imo

the secret room/tunnel area is wicked af

the jumpscare with the container is also crazy

[stone stump]

the only lore in ron is that it's not finished

[native rune]

The name of the game is an allegory for the game itself

[foggy zinc]

?

watdahek is u saying

[native rune]

Because having owned the game for over a year now all I can really ask myself every time I see an update/news from the developers is “Is it ready, or not?”

[foggy zinc]

IS THAT A READY OR NOT REFERENCE?

[native rune]

And with 1.0 I can still resoundingly say it is still far from ready

[foggy zinc]

honestly i just resonate with the devs as a game dev

game development is not easy and in their situation i can only imagine how crazy they must be atm lol

[native rune]

Yeah not managing to fix the same bugs in the game since EA is crazy ill give you that

[stone stump]

so crazy they released a game that's not even half way into being finished

[foggy zinc]

true but can you ever consider something finished anyways?

[prime wing]

We need to buy a studio

[foggy zinc]

like if they really wanted to finish the game the game wouldn't have launched yet i imagine

[frail quartz]

It probably would've been fine if they just advertised it as an unfinished build they're releasing early because they're about to go on a holiday break and don't want to leave us waiting longer

[prime wing]

one warehouse

in the worst side of town

[native rune]

Sounds like a good Ron map

A secret game dev warehouse

[frail quartz]

All of Los Suenos is the worst side of town.

[prime wing]

fair

[crude prism]

Wishing I had some way to actually speak to someone at Void to fix simple balancing issues that have existed forever. Like single digit changes in the ammo/weapon files

[stone stump]

by finished i mean a game where devs added everything they wanted to and see it as a good enough final product

[native rune]

Oh they thought it as good enough alright

[stone stump]

they sure did

[frail quartz]

I still think a lot of this could've been prevented with a lot more transparency and a lot less hyping is what I'm saying

[stone stump]

or just staying in early access, it's like there for a reason...

[prime wing]

marketing needs to do its thing. Thats how this works at the end of the day

[foggy zinc]

Again that doesn't work here. In business, there's something called an MVP or minimum viable product, which is basically the Early-access version of any game, or an Alpha/Beta test. In this case, they're still improving and reiterating on their MVP. It'll truly never be finished, so the best thing they can do is blow up their game's population and awareness to get more feedback and get a plan going to move forward.

[frail quartz]

I don't think the trust of your community is something you should be willing to sacrifice for the sake of marketing

[foggy zinc]

still understandable that people want change quickly but this is a tiny game when you look at the bigger picture

[native rune]

“Minimum viable product” now you’re speaking voids language

[foggy zinc]

literally business terminology

welcome to the real world officer

[native rune]

Yeah I don’t doubt it’s business terminology

It’s milking people for money that’s what businesses do

[foggy zinc]

pretty much

welcome to business lol

[native rune]

Welcome to people not liking it

[frail quartz]

Yeah, my problem isn't that they did this, it's that they advertised it as the 1.0 launch rather than still being unfinished

[stone stump]

just because it's a thing in business doesn't mean it's a good thing

[prime wing]

You can tell this to literally every company ever. Not justifying anything, but it is pretty standard at this point

it does not matter

[foggy zinc]

They need to build attention and awareness somehow. It makes sense why people are dissapiointed but if i were in their shoes as Head of Marketing I would do exactly as they did and market it as a big launch.

[prime wing]

whatever people think or their expectations dont matter, they already purchased the game and played it

[foggy zinc]

SO REAL

[frail quartz]

This feels awfully morally bankrupt

[native rune]

Well you are talking to someone who said they’d do the same so

[prime wing]

best thing to do is provide feedback, and reasonable arguments. I dont know what other option there is

The other extreme is threatening to bomb devs and the steam forums love that

[stone stump]

"we are here for the money so enjoy the unfinished experience we're gonna fix for the next 5 years for the price of only $50"

[frail quartz]

Wait, you're meaning to tell me that this game's message ISN'T that violence is good?

[foggy zinc]

wild new custom map

[stone stump]

i get that being transparent and honest is not something regular people tend to do, but it's still annoying

[prime wing]

I mean as long as you dont lie

you can get away with anything

[frail quartz]

Are you not listening to yourself

[stone stump]

regular people lie on a daily basis

[prime wing]

Bethesda is the prime example

let people create their own dilusions

and high expectations

just to be shattered

Bethesda does lie

to be honest

[stone stump]

i mean starfield felt somewhat finished in a bethesda way

[prime wing]

Nah that is unfinished

yeah

and I dont think starfield is gonna see a revival

[stone stump]

and with ron there's like actually half of the game missing

[frail quartz]

Anyways, I just don't see the harm in waiting a bit longer to label an update as the offical launch. You're still gonna make the same amount of money with a whole lot less backlash

[prime wing]

i dont know if they could have afforded to wait more

once the ron documentary is out we will find out (its never happening)

[frail quartz]

Are they making a documentary or something?

[prime wing]

i wish

80% is gonna be discord screenshots

[stone stump]

im just like whatever because i haven't bought the game myself, but i still feel like it could've been done better (and yeah, i know you can always do better, but that's not what i meant)

[crude prism]

Best bet is marketing investment + management pushing for TGA/EOY/Holiday Season overwrote leaving the game in EA for a longer period of itme

[prime wing]

leaving early access is a marketing strategy that is likely to become a new push

among other titles

[stone stump]

full release early access when?

[prime wing]

if entering EA wasnt big enough, now we are leaving it

[ivory kiln]

lmao i just shot a suspect moments later when i came back for him he was surrendering then he collapsed

[native rune]

Nice of him to think about you before the end

[crude prism]

Entering public EA on steam was also a decision made not because it was 'ready' for public EA, but because they ran out of limited dev-keys to give to supporters

[stone stump]

i really wonder how they gonna handle updates now. supporteralpha or something else?

[prime wing]

nah

thats gone

[crude prism]

Supposedly the supporter branch is completely discontinued (probably for the best)

[prime wing]

turned to ashes

[stone stump]

so we gonna literally get early access but in full release

so cool

[prime wing]

i dont know how that plays out for steam, but if games can just leave EA like that while in development

is that a new precedent

[stone stump]

i mean they could do a separate public beta branch as some other games do

[prime wing]

or are there games that did that already

[crude prism]

Unfortunately "post launch development" is the norm nowadays

[prime wing]

The thing is they didnt want to continue splitting the playerbase apparently

although it was their choice to do so at first with SE anyways before going EA and then having to welcome new players

seems like it backfired in some ways

[stone stump]

as far as i'm concerned they did a little manipulation so more people would buy the supporter edition for the early early access. it's good that's it's supposedly gone, but at what cost?

[prime wing]

I mean they didnt force anyone

even we told people that it was not necessary

[bright valley]

I can't help but recall a lot of confidence being expressed towards the state of 1.0 before it launched. Like people were going "no supporter testing?" and the response was essentially "nope, it's fine, won't need it"

[stone stump]

i was like "have they figured out real QA this time?"

yeah....

[bright valley]

#💬general-discussion message My best-aged comment so far.

[stone stump]

i remember it

[frail quartz]

I was concerned about launching such a huge update without testing as well

[crude prism]

traits are broken now because of post-launch patching

[bright valley]

My concern was mostly that the speed of development seemed to pick up so drastically and I wasn't sure why/how. Previously a year would not result in this big of an update.

[crude prism]

A lot of these things were likely in progress already before Adam but just weren't prepared

[stone stump]

it's been said they got a new project leader or some shit

like a year ago obviously

(so they started to work more efficiently and all)

[bright valley]

Eh. I don't speculate on any of the administrative/business stuff. Those are closed doors I'm not behind.

[prime wing]

Shit got real in like 2 months

[stone stump]

too bad i really went "void doesn't lie, right?" at the time lmao

[bright valley]

But yeah. Felt like there was a breakthrough somehow.

[stone stump]

but i knew 1.0 would be a mess on launch so at least there's that

[bright valley]

It is odd the incongruence between the pre-1.0 confidence and the reception of the actual 1.0. I dunno what the good-faith explanation is for that.

Didn't expect the 1.0 label to affect expectations maybe? IDK.

Lot of people say if this was just another EA update they'd be a lot more accepting of the unfinished state it's in, and grateful for the additions.

[stone stump]

could be that they avoided announcing stuff they weren't sure about? at least that was the case pre adam

[prime wing]

the smartest thing to do

cant be wrong, if you are not wrong in the first place

[stone stump]

yeah, learned that too while doing some software development

people can't complain about something you haven't even mentioned

they do however complain about radio silence and not enough changes tho

but it's the lesser evil here

[stone bay]

bruh I just got into a game some kid asked what skin color was the civ I said black, and he shot him then died 2 minutes later proceeded to restart the mission because he died when 4 of us were still alive then kick me for asking him why he restarted
this game wild

[bright valley]

If you're going as fast as you reasonably can, I'd honestly just wave off the impatient people.

[crude prism]

💀

[stone stump]

no, playing public lobbies is wild

[ivory kiln]

and he was faking it

also where are the weapons in port hokkan

[stone stump]

it's random

but in the containers with green spider on them

[ivory kiln]

and green spider?

ty i found them

just had to look at a spider

anyways wow 24 suspects

feels like a dk2 mission

[bright valley]

Did I really get robo-deleted for calling a racist who isn't even here a tw*t

🤦‍♀️

[foggy zinc]

guh

also unrelated question but what watches do ya'll wear ingame

[frail quartz]

None, I use the long sleeved shirt

[ivory kiln]

same

[foggy zinc]

that's foul

[crude prism]

Green top 99' >

[bright valley]

I would wear the knockoff casio but I want to wear the blue top and it doesn't leave space for a watch

[foggy zinc]

i wear the explorer's companion i believe

i hope that's the right watch lel

[bright valley]

It could be the wrong watch and I wouldn't know

[foggy zinc]

watchless aaa officer

[bright valley]

Hey get fucked I wanna wear blue

[dense quest]

the one that has big digital numbers that you can see counting, I really like it

completely forgot its name

[stone bay]

I use the Explorer's Companion and my team varies. Also, Void does not understand 24-hour time format.

[bright valley]

Studies suggest it's perceived as more trustworthy and less militaristic.

[foggy zinc]

Gtech trailblazer, i liked it a lot too

[stone stump]

military time is used to tell you the time of the mission

[stone bay]

I meant on the watch, not the loading screen.

[stone stump]

there was a mod that fixes the sleeve and watch clipping

[stone stump]

how bad have they done it?

[bright valley]

I do love how the digital watches display a stopwatch counting up in real time, I just wish it started at zero from mission start.

[stone bay]

Nevermind, apparently it's a stopwatch.

[stone stump]

whaa? you mean the watches aren't useless?

[bright valley]

Now all we need is a step counter so we can create the wonkiest fucking challenge run ever.

[foggy zinc]

ngl it'd be nice to be able to throw chemlights to signal friendlies of your presence or sumn

[ebon ginkgo]

just use flashlights

[stone stump]

flashlights/lasers do that

[foggy zinc]

true too ig

[bright valley]

Open and shut discussion lmao

[foggy zinc]

lasers not so much without better laser, since you can barely see them

[stone stump]

hehe, i use the visible ir laser mod

[foggy zinc]

could be wrong too idk

[shadow fern]

We talking about watches?

[foggy zinc]

i use that too with better laser

[foggy zinc]

indeed 👍

[shadow fern]

Definitely rocking the Hamilton khaki

[stone stump]

even though i could use the accessory switch mod at this point

[bright valley]

Watch yo mouth

[foggy zinc]

the w h a t

[shadow fern]

Uhhh that’s “grandfather’s watch” in game

Hamilton khaki is the real life watch

[stone stump]

name checks out

[shadow fern]

Like the Rolex explorer 2 variant in game

[foggy zinc]

watdahek

[rich bobcat]

i finally cleared ides of march

and damn,fuckin sinuous trail is SO much easier imho-

[foggy zinc]

it is imo the suspects in sinuous are armoured slightly but it isn't an issue as long as you bring something that isn't an SMG lel.

[rich bobcat]

they also dont have freakin M249s and dont seem to have such crazy aim-

also spread out-

[foggy zinc]

forget the M249, the bedroom in 1201 or 1204 (forgor) is the worst; there's always a guy there and he can hit you through the glass which you can barely see from

[rich bobcat]

GOD-

that fuckin balcony-

also the hallway between the 2 rooms thats always open and gets sprayed down

[foggy zinc]

i've never seen ads on the balcony lel

[foggy zinc]

b r i n g w e d g e s

[rich bobcat]

problem

for me it was like...always one of the doors that starts opened

[foggy zinc]

seal off the main center room and all nearby rooms

[rich bobcat]

kinda hard when your getting peppered from 2 sides with m249s

[foggy zinc]

honestly best way to play any map is run it in multiplayer with semi-serious ppl

[foggy zinc]

seal them off right after you spawn and clear the area

afterwards its best to make your way to each room slowly and clear them out

unrelated but linkedin just told me i got 23 profile views

im famous guys

[rich bobcat]

Also

For the longest time I could not find the other sniper (I found the one in the room with all the pickets and the news on)

Then one playthrough I accidentally reported it while trying to cuff a civvie

God I'm freaking blind-

[foggy zinc]

lel

also pro tip for AI teammates; don't run shields

[rich bobcat]

...
<running 2 sheilds

[foggy zinc]

from my experience they provide zero utility compared to giving them literally any weapon

yea don't do taht

if you really want a shielder, keep one shield and that's it

[rich bobcat]

jokes on you,all 5 people with shields doing the turtle technique

[foggy zinc]

one way ticket to death cuz the AI will laser your feet most likely

[rich bobcat]

all crouching

[foggy zinc]

the shield sways around and they can basically shoot around it

i learnt this the hard way on Sins of the Father

aka the scariest map next to Relapse and Port

Relapse is only scary because its friggin massive and Port is equally as massive and super dark

[rich bobcat]

i forgot,which mission is this one

[foggy zinc]

Hotel map. Suspects have some armor from what i recall but are equipped with FALs and LVARs; aka DEADLY WEAPONRY. It's decently dark and there's a TON of potential flanking and rooms to clear. Your best bet for the mission is running NVGs with an IR laser and flashing every room you enter. Mirrorgun/Optiwand is also recommeneded imo. Wedges are especially good for sealing off your tracks to prevent flanks and to generally just close off areas to clear the map sequentially.

[wheat wren]

I never had a problem wearing Kevlar and with an mp5

[foggy zinc]

watdahek

bravest LSPD officer ever

tbf being aggressive and pushing in is a pretty viable strat most of the time, since the AI get more aggressive whenever you're slow and whatnot, from what i can tell at least

[wheat wren]

Yeah. I mean just get like 11 magazines and spray when you need to, single shots all other times.

[foggy zinc]

semi-auto MP5?????????????????????????????????????????????

[wheat wren]

The p90 is a good one

[shadow fern]

Why?

I have alpha running a shield, but sometimes he either dies or just tanks it

[foggy zinc]

yea the problem is when he dies and you lose the pointman imo

[prime mural]

Become the pointman

[foggy zinc]

i personally like having the extra firepower

[prime mural]

I forget ppl actually use the ai as a team instead of glorified pockets

[foggy zinc]

lel

[shadow fern]

Definitely came in handy to let them do the majority of the work in greased palms

[foggy zinc]

oh yea

greased palms was cheeks but AI made it a bit easier

[shadow fern]

I came in with 5 mags… only had 1 left by the time the mission was over. And I always run semi

[foggy zinc]

they still did die a lot cuz they'd get cross-map sniped lel

[foggy zinc]

was bro spraying through containers trying to penetrate or what

[shadow fern]

Yes

[proper badge]

Is this game fun innsingle player? how good are the AI?

Planning get the game rn, is on discount

[shadow fern]

Personally I enjoy it, but I play it slow.

[proper badge]

Yeah ik, is not a cod

[shadow fern]

It’s a challenge that’s for sure and I’ve been playing it solo

[foggy zinc]

singleplayer it's alright. AI are straight up killers sometimes and other times not so much, i.e. they just let you do sometimes lol

multiplayer is 100% the best way to play this game

[shadow fern]

I know a lot of people give it shit, primarily the subreddit… which they have probably the biggest hard on about the state of the game

[foggy zinc]

competent squad with clear comms is a surefire way to basically clear anything

[shadow fern]

The enemy AI is definitely tuned to multiplayer tbh

In solo play, you gotta play it slow if you don’t want to pull your hair out

Play in practice mode before commander. Even though it says practice, don’t be fooled. You can restart instantly instead of being pushed back to the police station when you die in commander mode

[foggy zinc]

i don't think ill ever play commander mode lel

perks are cool and all but practice mode is fine as is and the "campaign" element of commander mode isn't really a thing

since the story is told through each mission and not cutscenes or exposition like literally any other game (which is fun cuz environmental storytelling is great)

[shadow fern]

Ah yeah, definitely either tact-on or half baked. You can still unlock all of the cosmetics in practice mode

I definitely hope they add more content to the police station

Make it feel more alive rather than just a multiplayer hub

[foggy zinc]

have you not found the coffee machine in the briefing room?

that has to be the best content the game has to offer

[shadow fern]

Doesn’t make a sound when it dispenses coffeeeeee

[foggy zinc]

imagine asking for more when THAT exists

[foggy zinc]

make a mod for it frfr

[shadow fern]

Or the coins when you deposit them

No slurping sound either

[foggy zinc]

lmao

[shadow fern]

They can add Donuts to the briefing room too, the true police simulator

[wintry lotus]

How is the game’s multiplayer for duos?

[foggy zinc]

duoing anything imo is super ultra risky but i imagine its ight

[crude prism]

It's hard, but doable in vanilla. If it's too much you can always get an AI mod to ease it up a little

[foggy zinc]

i personally play with the More Crack for AI mod by the 213 Park Homes finest meth cooks

am waiting for the more crack for SWAT mod

WAIT PAUSE

More Coffee for SWAT

perfect

[crude prism]

you guys get coffee from the machine?

I always just get hot water

[foggy zinc]

YES OFFICER THIS ONE RIGHT HERE

[crude prism]

[foggy zinc]

also judging off your name, did you have something to do with that massive RON spreadsheet on weapon suggestions and stats and stuff

[rich bobcat]

mf is gonna walk in with no armor and a 6 shooter alone and be like "yea,not that hard"

[stark hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/he-is-the-messiah-monty-gif-19570851

[fading quiver]

how do i go to high ready

[vagrant pumice]

Game is fun, but after 100+ hours, it kinda becomes repetitive.

[tawny scroll]

“Judge”ing🫵🏽

[foggy zinc]

Spacebar is the default toggle for low ready. You can change whether you go into low or high ready in the gameplay settings.

[tawny scroll]

😔

[crude prism]

no relation. The emoticon in my name is made with O's instead of 0's. Pure coincidence

[native rune]

When is void gonna get some sense and screenshot MMM’s spreadsheets and just add them to the game as a gun stat update

[foggy zinc]

unrelated BUT am conflicted between running SA-58 or LVAR for the next while, which should i run and what sidearm should i try out as well? u guys can also suggest tactical equipment to run if u like lel

[crude prism]

there is already hidden stat lines that do what my thing does worse (leftovers from the old days)

[foggy zinc]

am enjoying the SA-58 but need some variety otherwise i will get bored

[frail quartz]

The SA-58 can be pretty fun to use, but it instantly looses its one shot capability on maps with higher suspect HP. I personally find ARs like the LVAR you mentioned to be more reliable with their consistent two-shot, low recoil, and slightly higher capacity magazines

[foggy zinc]

any wicked setup you run on it or is it just combat grip + eotech + any light/illuminator

[frail quartz]

The control grip is the only one that really has much noticeable difference in recoil in the vanilla game, but with gunfighter I just run the combat grip since it looks the coolest

[foggy zinc]

so real

just stuck on what sight to use

vanilla exp holo is nice but i've gotten so dang bored of it

[crude prism]

Side-effect of having very limited (and generally ineffective) optic choices. You never want to use them

[spare scaffold]

Is ready or not ai actually too hard or do we as players just suck ? Haha

[crude prism]

(hard truth is most people suck, the other hard truth is that the AI in RoN is just unfair)

[dapper kestrel]

Me when 3 days after no briefing we get no hotfix

(The last two hotfixes were 3 days after briefing date)

[dapper kestrel]

A mix of both, but the ai is extremely unreasonable in vanilla.

Reaction times of 1/24th of a second
Fully automatic M14s and shotguns
etc

VOID def didnt playtest their own game because that wouldn't have been acceptable at all

[spare scaffold]

That’s fair. Is there a generally accepted or “best” AI mod to tame it a bit ?

I don’t want it easy still just dumbed down ever so slightly.

[foggy zinc]

Honestly the AI for me is alright, problems come about when they start running around and strafe all over the place with wicked accuracy. On top of their overall spammy shots and crazy line of sight sometimes. Ignoring that stuff, AI is pretty chill.

[dapper kestrel]

No Crack for AI, front page on RoN Nexus

[dapper kestrel]

"Honestly the AI for me is alright"

names 99% of situations that occur when players confront ai

[foggy zinc]

I personally enjoy running More Crack for AI on CrackHead Mods by 213ParkHomes123

[foggy zinc]

being hyper aggressive and shooting first usually kills off half of these cases

like full breaching and not being afraid of death is 100% the fast track to not dying sometimes

it doesn't work that well in multiplayer tho cuz some people will just full agro the AI and bum rush without pieing or using any utility then wonder why they're deceased

[spare scaffold]

Okay awesome. I’ll try that one !

Is there any other must do mods ? I’ve played with weapon models a bit but nothing too crazy. Mostly vanilla

[dapper kestrel]

Ruins the point of the game though.

First, never be quick to die.
Secondly, we're supposed to be trying to save as many lives as possible not turn an apartment into a COD match.
Third, ruins any sense of realism.

[foggy zinc]

too bad when the AI john wicks me and it turns into a shooting gallery

[spare scaffold]

I think the biggest thing for me that comes to mind is trying to make the suspects more realistic. In real life I think a lot more people would be prone to surrender instead of engaging in a fire fight with a full on swat team. Lol but I do understand, there is a level in which it may be becomes too realistic and then it’s not all that fun lol

[true panther]

For me it's the disconnect between the presented scenarios and how the suspects act in them. Having them be so aggressive kind of makes sense in the crackhouses and when they are terrorists, not so much in other situations

[austere perch]

man, will this game ever be fixed? its been years

[foggy zinc]

it's in their best interest to fix the game so i don't see them stopping anytime soon lol

[spare scaffold]

Agreed. I think there is sooo much potential here

[foggy zinc]

quick question but is the MCX ingame chambered in 300 BLK or 5.56?

[crude prism]

Supposed to be 5.56, but is currently implemented as .300blk

[frail quartz]

I still have no idea how they managed to goof that up

Is it MEANT to be .300 but the newsletter labeled it as 5.56 by mistake?

[foggy zinc]

lel

one thing im wondering is how 300 blk does more damage than 5.56, unless im just stupid and RON Ahoy is wrong

from what i understand, 300 blk travels slower than 5.56 which would mean its not going to pierce armour that effectively right?

[crude prism]

considerably larger bullet

.300blk having worse penetration is represented in game, but only against material pen, not armor

[wheat wren]

Hmm

I find it funny that sometimes with the SA 58, I can’t shoot people through walls or wooden doors.

[foggy zinc]

also after using the LVAR again, i can indeed confirm it's a beast lel

[wheat wren]

That the ar?

[foggy zinc]

it is indeed an assault rifle

[wheat wren]

Nah the armalite, is it an armalite

[frail quartz]

From what I read, .300 blackout apparently has a lot more barrier penetration than 5.56

[crude prism]

Definitely -supposed- to be 5.56, why would they introduce 2 MCXs in .300blk?

[mighty elbow]

SA 58 is better all the suspects will know your there but it 2 or 3 taps so it normally works out

[wheat wren]

When gun guys say, AR, they’re generally referring to ArmaLite

[prime mural]

Till u get shot at once and now ur guns jumping everywhere

[wheat wren]

That’s called having stable aim

[mighty elbow]

true thats what the high capacity 45 acp is for i forgot its name

[frail quartz]

What's the point if the LVAR two-taps as well?

[wheat wren]

Facts

[prime mural]

Bc sa58 onetaps

Most of the time

[frail quartz]

On maps without suspect HP increase, yeah

[mighty elbow]

the lvar isn't that 300 blackout

[wheat wren]

Also facts in my experience

For closer range, suspect with body armor, I always go SA 58

The recoil is mitigated somewhat by the close range

[prime mural]

Sa58 is peak sweat mode

[crude prism]

SA58 is so goofy, it's so impractical lol

[wheat wren]

I love your bio by the way. Facts.

[mighty elbow]

i go SA 58 with only AP for enemies with or without body armor i only use 300 black out guns for stealth/dark maps

[mighty elbow]

thx mate

[prime mural]

Bit of an overkill to sa58 soft armor

[wheat wren]

Yep

For every other occasion, I use 10 mm

[prime mural]

But hey pew pew is pew pew

I've never had good exp with 10mm or smgs in general.

[wheat wren]

Then you need more practice

They are the easiest guns in the game

[prime mural]

The smgs feel so aids even on fa

[mighty elbow]

that's why its so great if they have zero armor and your using AP it will kill them because the damage is high for the SA 58 by default but if they have armor its also no problem for the SA 58

the only time the SA 58 is bad is if its a dark map and i need to use nods and be as quiet as i can possibly be

[prime mural]

What's even better is that if u have good trigger control, sa58 is also pretty good for arresting ppl lol

[mighty elbow]

its funny if your using the SA 58 on full auto because if your close you might only hit the baddie 3 maybe 4 times but thats all you need to kill them so it works out

[frail quartz]

"Entry team to TOC, there's a red smear on the floor, I'm presuming it's the suspect."

[mighty elbow]

"TOC to entry team that's the third time you have told me that what the hell are you doing to those people! "

[crude prism]

"Sir. Finishing this fight."

[tawny scroll]

everyone in central command: 🤨 🎙️ w t f —

[vestal mauve]

"TOC to entry team, roger that" 🗿

[spare scaffold]

Does anyone else get kinda sick with the head cam after you die ?

I wish there was an option to change the camera view for after you die

[oak radish]

Does anyone know if there’s anything about RON coming to console and being cross play or not?

[stone bay]

I very highly doubt it. This would be a nightmare to play on controller.

There’re too many controls.

[bitter galleon]

Any tips for mission Greased Palms? Been stuck on it for a while. It's brutal with the package sorting area

[stone bay]

Use lots of shields. I gave Alpha and Charlie shields as outlined here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLqPL6M9Vf8

[bold sky]

media rules really loosening in this channel now it seems

[vestal mauve]

use shields
clear the outside first
pray to God

[feral girder]

anybody wanna play

[clear crypt]

all my progress got wiped clean anyone know why

[spare scaffold]

How often does y’all’s game glitch to where it says there enemies left or civilians left etc and there isn’t ?

[willow vector]

Does suspect stress increase over time, or is it based on how loud you’ve been? Or both

I’ve been trying to S car dealership and most of my runs that seemed good before it wasn’t lasted about 20+ mins playing slow and deliberate. Always the last guy or accidental unathorized use of force.

Out of frustration, I decided to try a faster and more aggressive approach by clearing the garage and outdoor areas first before moving in the building. I was throwing gas and stingers into every room and made a lot of noise. Surprisingly, the last guy who tried to flank us actually hesitated which got me the S.

Is playing fast and aggressive actually better because if you do it right suspects don’t get to build up enough stress? Or did I just get lucky

[acoustic tartan]

Me: careful for door traps
Teammate: they put door traps on this level?
Me: Ya some doors
BOOM
Me: SERIOUSLY

[uncut vessel]

KEK game is already on sale

[tough spire]

Hopefully that means balance patch imminent. It'd be an extremely bad play to pull in a bunch of new players on a sale during a poorly received build.

[uncut vessel]

radio silence seems atm

[stuck cove]

Is it worth it to buy the game rn since there’s a sale

[uncut vessel]

i wouldnt

[stuck cove]

Why

[tough spire]

Do it if you're into this kind of game.

It will improve, but it's in a contentious state right now.

[uncut vessel]

either wait for larger discount or watch and see if the developers make any meaningful updates

[humble mauve]

best to look up gameplay (preferably raw/unmodded) to see if it looks like something you would like

[pallid zephyr]

The mouse wheel in the game doesn't really do much unless you press it to give commands.

I think it would be cool if they added a Tarkov esc movement system where the mouse wheel determines how fast you walk

It would really help with precision

[true creek]

anyone wanna play the hotel map with my buddy an i

[dreamy garden]

The game is actually on sale?

[sharp fox]

yes

[brittle sable]

Is the Nightclub remake from Swat 4 an actual active shooter or just barricaded suspects?

[reef belfry]

have there been performance fixes since 1.0 release?

i havent played since then but i had a 2gb update

[midnight inlet]

How much experience in singleplayer would you guys recommend before going into multiplayer coop?

[spice valve]

Hey folks, I'm new to the release version, how do I play moded maps in SP?

[stone stump]

the same way you would play them in MP

[hazy topaz]

they should have the devs play greased palms

"let's make capturing a hostile suspect surrounded by other hostile suspects a hard objective"

[stone bay]

My first time playing that level, I encountered a suspect behind a door. As I sought cover, while walking backwards I could see the trail of bullets that was following me. It was kind of insane.

[hazy topaz]

tracked through the walls? in 1.0? but we fixed the ai

[spice valve]

Thanks , sorted it 🙂

[stone stump]

im convinced suspects shooting through walls is a myth and isn't real

[stone bay]

They just figured out how to make concrete penetrating ammo is all

[stone stump]

i mean some suspects are literally using battle rifles

[hazy topaz]

this guy runs no crack fs

suspects shoot through everything from frosted glass to shelves to room dividers

they definitely shoot through walls. even the swat ai shoots through walls

[stone stump]

how come they never did for me

[hazy topaz]

you tell me man

running mods?

[stone bay]

I run No Crack and still get shot at through walls.

[hazy topaz]

not you man

old mr too good to get shot through walls

[stone stump]

i do have mods, but not ai ones

the only cases where they shoot me through a wall are when they should've, because they clearly seen me crossing a threshold

[hazy topaz]

fair enough

[uneven tulip]

use pepperball smg if u arent already

[iron star]

Or you shot at them
Or you had the flashlight on
Regardless, taking the easy way of if x give 5 seconds of wallhacks to ai is the lazy approach.

Wall issues are often more related to poor map props that are see through for ai and not us.

[bitter mason]

It's not super common for them to just randomly shoot you through solid walls
But they will very often spot you through the tiniest gaps which they probably shouldn't be able to see you through. But yeah suspects will shoot through walls with a lot of accuracy in the situations they do spot you

[ionic shell]

It def happens, but tbf not that often

[stone stump]

some people here put it in a way that it's a very big issue and they can't play the game because they're wallbanged basically the moment they spawn smh

[faint cradle]

I mean it is a massive pain

[hazy topaz]

i agree it's rare enough to not always be noticed but also common enough to where there is definitely a reason to be talking about it

MAYBE I JUST SUCK but who knows

[faint cradle]

It happens pretty much every run for me. If an enemy is alive and not instantly suppressed somebody is getting wallbanged. Granted it is way worse on large maps like nightclub and port

[hazy topaz]

going to test it out right now

let's go to the post office we need to send some mail out

shit's fucked

fuck this game

[deep rain]

plz add: from frigging 100km away! 😄

Like, on Hide and Seek, I enter the little warehouse office corner, that's inside the big warehouse just to the right. I enter top floor of that shack office from the "lighthouse tower" and as soon I as pass the dooredge (after peak open) AI shoots from about 100m distance diagonal through nearly the entire warehouse, through the grated window, at my pixel.

[bitter mason]

a classic

a good one is if theres a suspect with a weeny bit of their arm or something poking around a corner (because they just have to always point their guns at nothing I guess) and you wall bang them, their instant reaction is to nail you through the exact same wall in very little hits, no retreats or anything, just a perfect counter wallbang

[deep rain]

oh yeah, the infamous RON "counter wall bang"

going to to go down in the history of gaming

And then they charge you. Switching games. First they play CounterStrike, then they switch to their Quake and Doom skills.

Probably also expecting to just respawn.

Cause they surely act like they would.

[stone bay]

What engine is ron made in again, wasnt ue4 for the pvp type alpha?

[stone stump]

ue4

[amber dock]

Yep, UE4 4.27

[crude prism]

Intentional and very fun mechanic. 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍

#🎬ron-clips-and-media message

[bitter mason]

its kinda silly ngl

[deep rain]

why would you lie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZSZYW68xA8

best comedy ever 🙂

[deep rain]

yeah, as much fun as shooting yourself in the foot. 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎

[crude prism]

"players keep walbanging the bots, what can we do?"

'how about we make it so that if they get hit through walls, they shoot back at the player?'

"that sounds good"

this also means that whenever you hit a bot, NOT through a wall, they autoretaliate, outside of the normal spotting/acquiring/engaging path they are supposed to go down

[deep rain]

yeah, the most stupid decision in FPS game design history 😛

[stone stump]

^"tactical fps"

[deep rain]

"we dont have the coder capacity to re-write all this unreal bot behavior stuff" "well, we'll deal with it with tweaking the values".

[bitter mason]

kinda a stinky way of dealing with it, thats what ROE should be lol
suspects (On most missions) should only be authorised to shoot when they're pointing their guns, and should only point their guns when they intend on using them, like maybe they can watch a doorway in anticipation or when they are yknow actually fighting the player, otherwise it should give you unauthorised penalties when they're just hiding in a room

[faint cradle]

THAT ROOM IS DEATH. I know exactly what you mean. I just wedge that door lol

[earnest wolf]

The best on hide and seek is when you climb the tower and walk out onto the balcony at the top and enemies inside the warehouse start shooting at you through the cracks in the roof

[faint cradle]

Enemy pixel detected

[deep rain]

because it's a very very simple unreal engine bot AI. Void lacks programmers.

[earnest wolf]

they're gamers thats for sure

I didn't play before 1.0 - did it used to be better?

[crude prism]

I have identified that this darkened outline of a person backdropped with rain and the night sky is an enemy, and not one of the hundreds of people who work at the dock.

K I L L

[earnest wolf]

lol 😂

[deep rain]

A game dev friend jokingly said to me at work: "Well, VOID really showed us how talented their artists are, and that they really know how to make cool unreal maps. Now just the gameplay is missing. 😄

[crude prism]

Unironically they could 'fix' most of the AI just by tweaking values that are already easy to tweak

At least get a good middleground temporarily before longer behavoral changes can take place

[bitter mason]

eeaah depends on the patch I think, I think they've always been extremely aggressive and would often charge the entry team.

[earnest wolf]

lol that's pretty funny. I get where they're coming from, but I do actually quite like the gameplay, if they could just tone down some of the bullshit and have a few more interesting AI behaviours I'd be a lot happier

[earnest wolf]

that... that sounds worse 😄

[bitter mason]

I would play on agency and have half the level run through the same doorway sometimes

[earnest wolf]

The few enemies that decide to charge me have a nasty habit of wiping my entire squad

[bitter mason]

for a while they didnt have any aiming animations so they would go from passive to shooting instantly, you still get those wicked fast shots when they're already aiming however

[earnest wolf]

haha

[crude prism]

As 'bad' as it is, I really don't think there's a solution for the AI having quick reaction times. You could drag them out, but then you'll just win every single gunfight

[bitter mason]

so imagine those moments where you turn the corner to get instantly domed by a suspect aiming at the door, but instead have that happen for pretty much every suspect even when they're not pointing their gun

[deep rain]

Proper bot states.

All with their own more complex behavior tree.

[crude prism]

When the AI is intending to kill you + already alerted, the fast reaction time gunfighting is correct

[deep rain]

It's too simple, because it is mostly stock unreal behavior.

[earnest wolf]

They do acknowledge some of the AI issues in their latest community post. It says they're too focused on sound triggers at the moment. It's hard to know how much noise I'm making really, but it does sort of make sense

[bitter mason]

like dreepa says proper bot states
such as
passive
cautious
combat
rn there seems to only be passive and combat

those states also play a lot into roe which should be far more important

[earnest wolf]

I don't think they should hear me and then instantly lock on me through a wall though ;/

[bitter mason]

because suspects always choose to shoot ROE is basically non existant as you dont have to wait for aggression, because you can always anticipate it

[ivory kiln]

but there are still moments where you get penalized

[bitter mason]

sure but even so

ROE could be removed and I feel it would have very little impact on the game rn

suspects do often hesitate at times but it always ends in them trying to kill you

[crude prism]

ROE is effectively nonexistant since you can just yell and execute anyone who doesn't explicitly hesitate

[bitter mason]

they never run to hide or ambush you later

[crude prism]

They do, they just usually don't get the chance 🤷

[bitter mason]

every time they hesistate, if im not tasing them they will eventually try and kill me

and if they run its a flank and they shoot at me

if they run without shooting then you wont have to resort to killing them but they dont do that

[crude prism]

It's painful that most of this could be 'fixed' in probably an afternoon or two
(before bigger overhauls, as I said before)

[deep rain]

Needs more inbetween transition states. Different states of certainty of SWAT position, focus points, angle offset dependent target re-aquisition time, modified by confidence and swat-position awarenes. Focused state vs peripheral vision state, etc. And to top it all of, different voice lines to communicate these states to the player.

Like, when suspect calls to his friend:"I am holding that angle!" you know, whatever he is looking at, it will be shot at in reaction time milliseconds (usually about 400ms).
Suspects say: "I lost them, where are they" to let player know, they no longer focus.
"chit chat banter" for -they dont even know SWAT is here yet-
suspect breaking away: fast move but spraying in a general direction, less target: "Damn, I am getting out of here"
slow tactical retreat, semi fire, more targeted: "Cover me, Im falling back".
etc.
etc.

I mean, this is a design topic that takes weeks and weeks to get done.
But I think it needs to be done if RON wants to take the place of king of the tactical shooters.
Right now it's just "Splinter Cell" until you switch to "Call Of Duty". The longer you can stay in "Splinter Cell" mode the easier the maps are.

[bitter mason]

small tweaks could do a lot but I still think a full overhaul is in order for both suspects and sorta for civs

[deep rain]

yeah, and it is a very very complicated topic to get right

[bitter mason]

for example civs never really commit to non compliance, they often dont comply if you're a short distance from them but if you keep yelling and get close they will surrender, when they should instead have varying morale (dependant on the level) and if they dont comply you have to passify them

and I've still had civs just standing around unaware of a gunfight going on in a room, and still just yell at the swat like nothing is happening

[deep rain]

FEAR (the game) did put tremendous effort into their enemy AI. it was the foundation of the gameplay, so they wanted to get it right. Cost a lot of dev time with experienced people. Still one of the best shooter AIs to this date.

no clue if VOID has the resources and people to pull it off

[bitter mason]

I always think to swat 4 for suspect and civ ai, its pretty simple but is significantly better than RONs in the context of a swat shooter

RONs would be great if this was ground branch or rainbow six vegas
but not for a swat spiritual successor

[deep rain]

Yep! This! so much

Add a planning phase, remove ROE, and you have a Rainbow Six killer game 🙂

but for a SWAT game, it's just much more than "shoot bots"

[bitter mason]

mhm

[deep rain]

So, how many suspects do I need to arrest to get A+ on Port Hokan?

[ivory kiln]

do you think we should have more yell for compilance lines

more toc lines

[deep rain]

I think, just like enemy AI, this needs to have more cases that the system switches between. When you yell, without someone nearby (or near the crosshair) they should say more general lines. "This is the police. Search warrant" and "Lay down your weapons, this is the police"... "Come out with your hands up."
But when you point at someone it should be more specific like now. But also dependent on state. If they hesitate: "Don't do it" "This isn't worth it".
If they are already on the ground: "No wrong move." "Dont even think about it" etc.

Right now it's all just one pool fired random.

[plucky sage]

Those context specific lines would be neat indeed

[ivory kiln]

maybe have lines for arrested suspects

based on their faction

[vestal mauve]

I just want suspects to surrender, current RoN feels like a shooting gallery with arrests tacked on

[ivory kiln]

and for certain suspects too

[ivory kiln]

the ones in port hokan have a chance to surrender

but most of the times they are fanatical

[vestal mauve]

I swear 213 Park might as well be Fallujah

Six Days In Los Suenos

[ivory kiln]

i want a mission related to the dallas ambush

[deep rain]

Yeah, it needs a bit more design thinking mentality. I don't really have the feeling I am doing "informed decisions". It's very random. Bang the room? No idea, maybe. Where will the bang land? Will it affect the enemy? No clue. Might as well throw a die to get the outcome of my team clearing the room. Same with breaching tools. No real "tool<-> obstacle" matchup.
Or should I use a flash or stinger?
The information for the player, what to do, what is best, good choice vs bad choice... it's all pretty fuzzy logic style. Like, we simulate a shooter and let it happen organically.
More modern game design would be to have more clear rules and feedback to the player what a good or a bad choice is, and what the situation ahead is about.

[stone stump]

real

[ivory kiln]

aiming your gun at a surrendered suspect should lower the chances of fake surrendering

[crude prism]

All suspects have a raw 10% chance to instantly surrender on first compliance call, this does not change per map

[ivory kiln]

interesting

[deep rain]

They could even use the SWAT AI voice to inform the player. "This is a bad spot sir. We should move". "no cover at this door boss, I don't like it" etc.