#Ice Palace Right Side Logic Bug

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

spare elbow
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This https://racetime.gg/alttpr/powerful-lostwoods-2200 is a seed where the current logic for pulling the right side of IP into logic when you don't already have the big key creates a logically unbeatable seed.

Mode: Inverted, Beatable Only, Flute Activated on Pickup, No moonpearl

The relevant items to cause the logic issue is:
Quake: Required to beat the seed, IP map chest
Hookshot: As far as I can tell, not available in logic
IPBK: PoD Compass Chest (4 key locked)
IPSK1: crystalroller - In logic with flute (front of SW) + glove (chest minigame) + mitts (spec rock) + mirror (front of SW) + lamp (superbunny) + somaria (front of SW)

PoD SKs:

  1. hype cave
  2. c house
  3. chomps - flute (front of SW) + glove (chest minigame) + mitts (spec rock) + mirror (front of SW)
  4. IP compass - flippers (front of TT) + firerod (superbunny)
  5. IP big key chest: same sphere as quake
  6. harmless hellway

My best guess, the playthrough visits IP with 3 PoD keys and clears out all 6 checks it can reach logically. Then it goes to PoD with 5 keys and picks up IPBK after.

You could have had the IPBK without doing glitches before getting to IP, and you could get it fully in logic by bailing after IP compass chest.

jagged egret
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the randomizer doesn't just halfway start a dungeon or anything like that. It has no concept of that. It only has a concept of what is or isn't reachable.

The IP Hookshot logic requires the BK to be out of logic with all not yet placed items and all placed reachable items.

In Keysanity the PoD Compass Chest is locked by 4 keys in logic, same for Harmless Hellway with a PoD key inside.

IP Big Key Chest would be the 4th key unlocking the PoD logic and the IPBK.
Though you already had to open the necessary door in IP to get the Quake out of the Map Chest.

The IP Hookshot logic is there to make you not waste the SK on the wrong door, which logically it did.

The actual issue now would come from PoD letting you use your keys smartly and avoid needing the 4th key to reach the IP Big Key. The logic doesn't account for smartness, just for dumbness. akashrug

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though from the other 4 keys the only one slightly locked off would be the TR Chomps one. lanistathink
so it'd have to find a way for that to be Out of Logic.

afaict, there shouldn't be anything stopping you from getting that... so: now is the question where the hookshot ended up at that it'd circumvent all the IP BK Logic

tight bloom
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pretty sure HS was not logically accessible ever

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and that no one found it

tight bloom
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I think this is the exact same logical flaw as we discussed the other week

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IP BK and right side IP is in logic in the same sphere

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so it doesnt see the IP BK being available

eager spade
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Would a spoiler log be helpful?

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Both this and the other report seem to be races, but I don't want to bother Synack if a spoiler log won't be useful.

oak skiff
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I think we'll just have to get rid of the negative logic here since we can't assure it's upheld with the php rando

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At least at the moment

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Might just copy what ER does here too

spare elbow
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The ER logic feels similar to the way left side mire has slightly relaxed logic, so I think that makes the most sense until v32 tm

spare elbow
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customizer to show the bug without needing to bother Synack:
Experiment 1:

Hookshot in pre-moldorm chest
Hammer in IP spike Room
IPBK in link's House

Result: Unwinnable, failed to generate - expected.

Experiment 2:

Hookshot in pre-moldorm
Hammer in IP spike room
5x POD SKs Kak
Glove in PoD shooter (forced aga)
1x POD SK in IP compass
IP is a crystal

Result: Sometimes the generation fails with unwinnable, other times it succeeds. Playthrough shows collecting 6th pod key and hammer in the same sphere and then going back for IPBK

📎 alttpr_-_NoGlitches-open-ganon_undefined.txt